# The dog whisperer



## Guest (Dec 29, 2007)

I know this is general dog chat and not specific chi chat, i wasnt sure where to put it...

Wondering if anybody has ever watched and it what you think about it if you have?

THey had an adorable little brown chi on last night, not as a problem dog but one of the pack ceaser uses to rehabilitate the other dogs.

Also think Ceaser is kinda cute lol.

I've become quite hooked on the programme I have to admit. It's in the sky plus planner to recored every episode.


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## Rah (May 3, 2007)

I think his Chihuahua is called Cocoa? Or Luigi. I forget, he always brings it out with a Shih-Tsu looking thing and just calls them 'Cocoa and Luigi' so I never know which is which! 

But yes, I adore the program, I think his ideas on dog psychology are amazing, I have his book and I try and raise my dog with his teachings. Ever since I started thinking about positive and assertive energies with Baby, I really feel like we've bonded closer, and she listens and does what I say. Walks have become so much better, and any problems I have are so easy to deal with using his touch/assertive energy method!

Cesar Milan = win. xD


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## sullysmum (Mar 6, 2004)

I like watching him, i dont agree with everything he says but he makes sense most of the time.


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## chifreak (Dec 27, 2007)

I think he's great! We watch him all the time and we've learned a lot. Yup...he's cute..lol!


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2007)

yes thats the two dogs that were on last nights episode ( which was old cos he said in it well it's 2005) a little grey shsi tsu and the chi. Thought the chi was so gorgeous!

I didnt know until just now he has bookd and dvd's out, found his website. Think it might be worth a read at some point. He seems to make a lot of sense in what he says.


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## Jangles021204 (Sep 20, 2006)

I'm kind of iffy about him. While some of what he says makes sense, I disagree with a lot of his methods.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2007)

Just looked on his website under meet the pack, the chi is coco.
He also has one called Tony.

not to argue or seem like I am, what methods do you not agree with and may I ask why?

I have only been watching for about two weeks, and am keen to know others opinions on this etc.
I know we cant all agree with everything but would genuinely be interested in discussing this further.

I like his way of thinking that your dog is a pack member not a human, i think a lot of people might forget that and use human psychology as ceaser points out, and not dog psychology.


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## <3 Sarah <3 (Nov 1, 2005)

i love it, but my mam watches it like EVERY day!  lol!

sometimes when i watch it though, with some of the things he does, i'm like sitting here saying "eeeeep. i'd totally FREAK out if he done that with max!" :lol: lol!


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## sullysmum (Mar 6, 2004)

When he back kicks the dog,,i know its not hard but i wouldnt do that.


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## chifreak (Dec 27, 2007)

But he's not really "kicking". He just uses his foot to control the dog as you would use your arm.


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## chifreak (Dec 27, 2007)

We have been watching him for at least a year and a half. His methods work for us! We love our 2 beagles and chi like crazy and want the best for them but we also want well adjusted animals. You can tell that he loves animals. I just have to snap my fingers or "Shhh" and they know what I want. His stuff works. I never have to yell.


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## sullysmum (Mar 6, 2004)

I do like his Shhh ( lol) and i really like him, just, as i say a couple things i dont.


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## <3 Sarah <3 (Nov 1, 2005)

we are always saying that we'd love him to come and sort naughty max out! :lol: lol!

but i would just freak out when caesar makes them go into where his pack of dogs are! :lol: lol


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## Pauline Leland (Oct 9, 2006)

I haven't seen them for a long time, deliberately have no TV, but I thought his shows were highly entertaining. 

He does use aversive methods - leash pops, unpleasant touches, kicks - and I think all positive methods are more effective. His methods may work for him but not for most people. Every show, it says don't use these methods on your own.


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## Jangles021204 (Sep 20, 2006)

IWAC said:


> not to argue or seem like I am, what methods do you not agree with and may I ask why?


He's not all bad, he does have some good ideas. I do agree that all dogs benefit from exercise, discipline, then affection. And I do also believe that dogs pick up on our feelings and emotions, or "energy." But I think a lot of what he does should be taken with a grain of salt and should not be copied by the average person who does not know anything about dog behavior.

IMO Milan relies too much at times on physical methods of control and "dominance" (I really don't like that word), rather than on fostering a strong bond of trust between dog and owner. I admit I used to think he was great, but as I have learned more about various methods of training (although I certainly don't claim to know much), I have changed my mind. One thing I specifically do not like is his use of the alpha roll (I don't think should ever be used and does not have the the intended effect).

Basically, I think a person can be in control of their dog and develop a strong(er) relationship with them by using other methods such as +R and being a benovolent leader, rather than getting too hung up on dominance and taking it to the extreme, which is so easy to do.

But that is all just my opinion, and like I said, he's not all bad.  I am glad that some people have benefited from his show.


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## CM Katie (Sep 28, 2005)

Pauline Leland said:


> He does use aversive methods - leash pops, unpleasant touches, kicks - and I think all positive methods are more effective. His methods may work for him but not for most people. Every show, it says don't use these methods on your own.


I agree with you.
I prefer Tamar Geller's book "The Loved Dog" where she uses 100% positive reinforcement techniques.
There's actually quite a bit of controversy over some of Cesar's techniques. While I do think he has a lot of good ideas, I think some of his methods are outdated/inhumane.
He does have a great understanding of the "pack mentality" though 

"He is right that most problems rise from the fact that dogs are pack animals and most humans (dog owners) don't understand that they must be the Leader of their pack to have a happy, healthy and well adjusted dog."


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2007)

ah right.
I suppose to the average person, like myslef, with little knowledge of dog training, his methods seem marvellous, and not harsh really.
I have seen him gently back "kick" a few dogs, but it did seem to be done very gently.
Like you say though, when you have learnt more you might see things about his ways that you don't like.
I do like his "sssh" too though lol, wonder if it works on husbands? ;-)

His techniques seem to work well, from what you see, but then the show will have been heavily edited. BUt I did notice the "dont try this at home" warning. I thought perhaps that was because some people might be too heavy footed with the back kicks, or pull the leash too harshly or something.
I know there is a company in our area who do dog training, and focus on coming to your house and dealing with behavioural issues, but I didn't agree with a lot of thier ways from what an old neighbour told me. They said to potty train a dog to go in the garden just leave it out there until it goes, even if it takes hours.
That to me is giving the wrong message, it seems to give the message of I'm being shut out here for hours, not the message of oh this is where I go potty.

It's interesting to chat about though, and get opinions on other methods of dog training too.


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## lebecron (May 10, 2007)

I have to say that I think he is fantastic. I have never seen him "back kick" a small dog like a Chi. I think some larger dogs need a little more than positive attitude to develop good manners, but I'm not a big dog person, so I suppose I shouldn't give an opinion on that one.

I had awful trouble getting Tiani to walk. She was so used to being carried that she basically would not walk. I watched a Cesar show where two Maltese (I think they were anyway) were the same. I followed his method of sending positive energy down the lead. I changed my attitude from "Come on Tiani let's walk a little" to no chit chat and just short lead and positive energy. It worked a treat and to me he is a dog god!!!! I have never seen him do anything that I would think of as harsh or unkind. I think that we all tend to treat our dogs like babies, which is not good for them in the long run and his methods bring the dog back to dog instincts and behaviour, which they need at times. Just my opinion!

Fran


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## cocochihuahua (Jun 2, 2006)

Is the dog whisperer the one on channel sky three? I got a book for christmas from my aunt and uncle and its called The Dog Whisperer, havnt really looked at it yet but i swear its like a woman??? I guess its not the same thing?


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## Lin (Jun 7, 2006)

I hope my observation isn't too controversial, but I have a really hard time with the "positive energy" aspect of it. I just totally don't get that. Some of the "mechanics" of his training make sense though.


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## Alisha (Mar 11, 2005)

The things I've seen him do are to get the dogs attention. I've never seen anything cross the line as being too agressive or abusive. I personally like his methods though I'm not much of a pack leader myself :lol:


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2007)

I quite like the positive energy thing, so it just shows how we all have different preferences etc.
Obviously without a dog I cant try it out, but agree that animals pick up on our energy / feelings. 
If you were to be feeling really meek and mild and told a dog to sit, already expecting it to not obey you then I think you would find the dog would hear this in your voice and not react. Where as if you are firm, but gentle ( IE calm assertive [he does like that phrase doesnt he]) then I think you would get a better reaction.

How many people do you hear about though punishing a dog for going potty where it shouldnt and then NOT praising it when it gets it right? Or threatening the dog with a rolled up newspaper? ( I have seen a friend do this and didn't like the idea myself, it was for show not for actually making contact but I didnt like the idea of using the threat of violence)

or the old technique of rubbing a dogs nose in IT (ie poopie or pee pee)

I dont agree with those techniques, Cesar's do seem to work, but as I say we are only getting to see what the editors want us to see.


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## Lin (Jun 7, 2006)

IWAC said:


> I quite like the positive energy thing, so it just shows how we all have different preferences etc.
> Obviously without a dog I cant try it out, but agree that animals pick up on our energy / feelings.
> If you were to be feeling really meek and mild and told a dog to sit, already expecting it to not obey you then I think you would find the dog would hear this in your voice and not react. Where as if you are firm, but gentle ( IE calm assertive [he does like that phrase doesnt he]) then I think you would get a better reaction.


Ahhhhh... is that what the positive energy thing is??? See I wasn't sure about that. Well I do agree with the owner's self-confidence being vital while training. Is that the same thing?


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2007)

I THINK that is what he means yes.
I think what he is saying is be confident in your manner but not aggressive.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I think he is cute as well and I like to watch his show but I do not always agree either. I dont ever see him give affection like I feel should be give.


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## Rah (May 3, 2007)

I'm reading his book at the moment - 'Cesar's Way'. It's really interesting, and makes me like him even more. 

I saw him to the back kick thing on a bulldog - it wasn't a proper kick, it was just a small nudge with his foot. He's never done anything like that to the smaller dogs he's worked with on TV, that have had similar problems. I don't think it does anything painful to bigger breeds like bulldogs! 

Ooh, I love the dominance roll things. I'm totally into being the pack leader of my pup, it's so cool when she will lay on the ground just from a look from me when I open a door and she goes to go through it before me! I barely have to move! And then when I say she can go, she's all happy and waggy again xD


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## Pauline Leland (Oct 9, 2006)

Look up "nothing in life is free" or NILIF, sometimes NILF, as a training method. Your dog gets NOTHING desirable without working for it - going through a door, petting, up on couch or bed, treats, meals... It's supposed to make a troubled relationship with your dog much better as they learn all good things come from YOU. 

I only use it for food and treats, I forget about it at other times I admit, but if Boop doesn't calm down and stop yipping when we're about to go out, I might start using it at the door just to preserve my hearing!


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## Alisha (Mar 11, 2005)

Actually I saw him working with a bomb dog today on his show it was a new one & he was very affectionate.


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## Jangles021204 (Sep 20, 2006)

IWAC said:


> ah right.
> I suppose to the average person, like myslef, with little knowledge of dog training, his methods seem marvellous, and not harsh really.


The only thing I know is that I don't know much.  However, I still have my opinions.  And I just happen to think that Milan is not quite the god that some make him out to be and that there are better ways. But he COULD certainly be much worse, and if any of you benefit from him, then more power to ya!  (He's just not my cup of tea).


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2007)

Jangles021204 said:


> The only thing I know is that I don't know much.  However, I still have my opinions.  And I just happen to think that Milan is not quite the god that some make him out to be and that there are better ways. But he COULD certainly be much worse, and if any of you benefit from him, then more power to ya!  (He's just not my cup of tea).



well that's why I am here, to learn more about what other people have found from experience. 
Looks wise he's my cuppa all right lmao


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## lebecron (May 10, 2007)

Facially, he's cute alright, but I get the impression he's really tiny in height. Could be wrong. As I'm 5 feet 10 tiny men make me feel like a giant. Maybe he is tall though, who knows!!!! I love his accent. Verrrrrry sexxxxxy!!! lol

Fran


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2007)

yeah, he does appear to be short lol


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## *Lydz* (Mar 30, 2007)

Really?! I can't stand him. I just can't watch his programme tried a few times.


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## Alisha (Mar 11, 2005)

Yes he's short :lol: I don't think he's a god by any means for me there's only 1 of those  But anyone who makes it their lifes work helping animals has got to be pretty decent


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## vegaschi (Oct 9, 2007)

I've read that his training has about a 67% failure rate. There were some dogs that he trained that actually became worse. 

I personally won't use his methods. Here is a link that is interesting http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/opinion/31derr.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2


I personally like that show "It's me or the Dog"


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## chifreak (Dec 27, 2007)

I do like him but as with most things, get lots of info from lots of sources to educate yourself and then use what works best for you. I find that picking peoples brains then taking bits and pieces from each to form what I need works.
I never heard of the show"It's me or the dog"


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## vegaschi (Oct 9, 2007)

http://animal.discovery.com/convergence/its-me-or-the-dog/its-me-or-the-dog.html

This is the show


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## chifreak (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks! I'll check it out. I love the Discovery channel-Animal Planet!


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2007)

I ahve not heard of it either, but will check it out


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## chifreak (Dec 27, 2007)

I bought Jim a cute collar and a leash today! He's only 6 wks old! It's red with little pictures of dog bones on it. How ridiculous. You'd think I had money to burn. He won't need it for the longest time! I really want to buy him clothes but he's too small! Sorry ...off subject-just felt like blabbing!!!


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## Jangles021204 (Sep 20, 2006)

vegaschi said:


> I've read that his training has about a 67% failure rate. There were some dogs that he trained that actually became worse.
> 
> I personally won't use his methods. Here is a link that is interesting http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/opinion/31derr.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2
> 
> ...


Great article. :thumbleft: It said what I wanted to, but explained it much better than I could have.



chifreak said:


> I do like him but as with most things, get lots of info from lots of sources to educate yourself and then use what works best for you. I find that picking peoples brains then taking bits and pieces from each to form what I need works.


Excellent point, I concur.


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## *Lydz* (Mar 30, 2007)

Its me or the dog is a great show - i have one of Victoria Stilwells books its how we taught Pebbles to do almost everything


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

is it on uk tv at the moment does anybody know?


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## *Chloe* (Feb 6, 2006)

i love its me or the dog - i dont think its on anywhere at the moment you might be able to see some clips on the website http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/I/itsmeorthedog/index.html- never really seen the dog whisperer


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## Katie (Apr 9, 2005)

I used to like Caesar's show when I first saw it. But I got to a point where I couldn't even sit through an episode. He seemed so rough and cruel at times I couldn't bare it.
I think reward method training is a better alternative than force or scaring a dog into doing what you want, but that's just my opinion.


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## lebecron (May 10, 2007)

I really have never seen him being rough or cruel to the dogs he is helping with. If I saw such behaviour, I most definitely wouldn't be a fan! But maybe it's just all our different perceptions of his methods. I do see him promoting a dominant role to the owners of the dogs and I have to say that I don't think that's a bad thing. I reward my girls for good behaviour and ignore bad behaviour to a degree, but there are certainly things that need tackling. I would never physically "punish" my girls but I do make them "mind." Ultimately, dogs are a pack animal that NEED a leader. If the Leader is strong of mind and positive, I think that is a good thing! Each to their own, I suppose.

Fran


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## Alisha (Mar 11, 2005)

In the defense of any training failure rate you can't really judge that because in the end it's the owner who has to do the work. Kinda like diets they can work but you gotta stick to them.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

I cant say I have seen him do anything that I felt was praticularily rough or aggressive, but as said i think it all depends on our perceptions.
I like his thinking that we must remember dogs are pack animals, and we must be their leader. It doesnt have to come down to us being an aggressive leader, but the dogs we own do look to us for food, warm, shelter, love, walking etc, so in a way already view us as some sort of pack leader I guess.

But I will certainly look at more methods of trainin


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Alisha said:


> In the defense of any training failure rate you can't really judge that because in the end it's the owner who has to do the work. Kinda like diets they can work but you gotta stick to them.



I agree.
I saw one epsiode where some owners oibviously did not have the commitment to a "difficult" dog, they called Cesar in, and just didn't seem to want to listen. At the end of the episode in his summary Cesar said that this dog had been euthanised by it's owners because of it's behaviour and that this was done without prior discussion with him, had he knwon he would have taken the dog himself.

As with most things, it is a lot to do with the owners.


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## Trace (Feb 20, 2008)

There will be controversy about anything really..

I like his show, he seems to do very well for a lot of people. I don't think he discourages praise or anything, but perhaps just doesn't overdo it. 

I've never seen him do anything that I would consider 'harsh' or 'cruel' and i am a big softy when it comes to animals! 


UGH that makes me so mad that the people euthanized the dog for its behavior! And Cesar would have taken him in.  How horrible.


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## kimmiek915 (Oct 4, 2005)

I love Cesar Milan's Dog Whisperer show! I watch it whenever it's on and I'm home. I think what he says makes alot of sense and for the most part, I agree with him. He usually has alot of clever approaches and it's amazing to see how quickly the dogs changes.


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## Milo 07 (Feb 3, 2008)

I love the guy!!!!! And his Chi...Coco...i specially added the channel just so i could watch it...oh and him too
lol


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## Wahmom (Jan 21, 2008)

I like some of Caesars methods too, someone posted (can't remember who) about another book, there is another book out called "The Dog Whisperer" but it's someone else.
as for the disclaimer, I always thought it was a warning...everyone is different in their "habits" easy going-alpha etc. (not the word I'm looking for )...for example, my oldest DD couldn't roll her Ridgeback/pit cross-1) she's not physically able 2) Denali (the cross) knows this! however I can...am I right and DD wrong-or vice/versa? No, we just have different methods to get our message through to this big girl Anyway, I've always thought that disclaimer meant "don't go up to your alpha dog,strange dog, or whatever and think that you can apply Caesars's methods...ya might get a nasty surprise! 
I also agree with whoever said that they watch and take what works for them, I try to watch/ read diff. trainers and match their methods to whichever one of the furkids that it fits...Peanut is a diva-Izzy just wants to please, so I use 2 different ways to get MY way in the end! 

Sorry for the long ramble , just my "2 cents"...BTW,anyone remember Barbara Woodhouse? her mindset seemed a lot like Caesers...


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