# Update on Lulu's liver issues



## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

I took Lulu back to the vet Monday morning for her two checkup to have her blood drawn again for a recheck. The results came back, and she is MUCH better! I wish I knew how to post both test results (I tried to take pics but I can't make it small enough for the thread and still readable), but I'll just give them. 
AST(SGOT) was 368 now 52 acceptable range: 15-66. 
ALT (SGPT) was 749 now 185 acceptable range: 12-118. 
BUN/Creatinine Ratio was 32 now 13 acceptable range: 4-27. 
Cholestrol was 360 now 124 acceptable range 92-324.
Platelet count was 427 now 388 acceptable range 170-400.
She still has to take the medication she is on with the milk thistle in it for another month, but the doctor was pleased with her improvement. He said based on the other numbers that were within normal levels but did change between the two bloodworks--one being the GGTP I remember--he said she definitely had hepatitis, which from what I understand in dogs means an inflammation of the liver. He said there is no way to tell what caused it/how she contracted it though. Scary to me! 

Another aggravating issue, I have had to stop the liver cleansing diet as of yesterday which really bothers me since she has done so much better bloodwork-wise because she is violently allergic to something. I know it is something in that diet. She itches UNCONTROLLABLY! I am talking almost 24/7! It is heartbreaking to watch her scratch so much! I feel like I should have my doctorate in food as much as I have studied ingredients for what she will not be allergic to, what will be OK with her liver, and what I would feel good feeding her manufacturing-wise (All our standard favorites just don't work  )

Well, that's where we are right now. Much better in some ways and battling in others.


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## LostLakeLua (Sep 6, 2009)

Hi Tina!! So glad that the hepatitis is under control; but sorry to hear LuLu is having allergy problems. What diet did they put her on for her liver??


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## intent2smile (Dec 4, 2011)

I am so glad her test results are looking better!! I hope you get the allergies under control. I know how aggravating it can be. We just had to take Jaxx off of Ziwipeak because he was itching 24/7


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## Buildthemskywards (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm so glad to hear she is feeling better. I hope she continues to mend. Did you go on that forum Kat gave us? Maybe they can help with some advice on food.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

It is a liver cleanse diet created by veterinarian Dr. Jean Dodd: 2 cups of a whitefish life cod or Pollack (I used cod), the diet called for 1 1/2 cup white potato and 1 1/2 cup sweet potato, but my vet doesn't like white potato in dog food, so I used 3 cups sweet potato, 1 1/2 cup zucchini, 1 1/2 cup squash, 1 1/2 cup carrot or celery and I switched by and forth.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

intent2smile said:


> I am so glad her test results are looking better!! I hope you get the allergies under control. I know how aggravating it can be. We just had to take Jaxx off of Ziwipeak because he was itching 24/7


Thanks, Amy Jo. I had to take her off ZP as well when the liver issues started because she was itching and I think she was allergic to the venison formula. I am thinking about doing the allergy tests, but some say they are not worth it and some say they are great--don't know what to think.



Buildthemskywards said:


> I'm so glad to hear she is feeling better. I hope she continues to mend. Did you go on that forum Kat gave us? Maybe they can help with some advice on food.


Thanks, Melissa. Yes I did go to that site and many, many (I could go on and on) more! lol I'm starting to think that what I'm looking for is just not out there.


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## princess_ella (Jun 4, 2005)

lulu'smom said:


> I took Lulu back to the vet Monday morning for her two checkup to have her blood drawn again for a recheck. The results came back, and she is MUCH better! I wish I knew how to post both test results (I tried to take pics but I can't make it small enough for the thread and still readable), but I'll just give them.
> AST(SGOT) was 368 now 52 acceptable range: 15-66.
> ALT (SGPT) was 749 now 185 acceptable range: 12-118.
> BUN/Creatinine Ratio was 32 now 13 acceptable range: 4-27.
> ...


did her puppy vaccines include hepatis they usually give it with the distemper and parvo vaccine?


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Okay, these results are ridiculously remarkable!!

Follow up, diligence and research pays off. I know that it is not easy, but it is worth it. Wish more were as committed. 

You will get the food thing figured out. You are sure getting all the big stuff all figured out and managed and that is great news!!


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

Wow Tina, such impressive results. Thank goodness she's doing better. 
Milk thistle is brilliant stuff, the pups & I take it to promote a healthy liver. 
So what are you feeding now that you stopped the cleansing diet?


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

princess_ella said:


> did her puppy vaccines include hepatis they usually give it with the distemper and parvo vaccine?


I'll be honest, I have no idea if a hepatitis vaccine was given with other vaccines, and at her age she will be tittered before getting any vaccines. From my research though hepatitis is a term used to for liver inflammation. I don't think it is the same as in people, but I may be wrong.



jesuschick said:


> Okay, these results are ridiculously remarkable!!
> 
> Follow up, diligence and research pays off. I know that it is not easy, but it is worth it. Wish more were as committed.
> 
> You will get the food thing figured out. You are sure getting all the big stuff all figured out and managed and that is great news!!


Thank you, Karen. I totally agree, especially for 2 weeks. It's not easy, but I am extremely disciplined regarding health, diet, dispensing of medicine and such. It's the discipline training I stink at--the only thing that makes Lulu not absolute perfection in my eyes is that she still barks when I tell her to stop sometimes.



~LS~ said:


> Wow Tina, such impressive results. Thank goodness she's doing better.
> Milk thistle is brilliant stuff, the pups & I take it to promote a healthy liver.
> So what are you feeding now that you stopped the cleansing diet?


Thank you! Yes, even when she is not on the prescription that includes milk thistle I will get the supplement for her. From all the foods that I have researched through dogfoodadvisor, wholedogjournal, thetruthaboutdogfood, dogfoodchat, dogfoodscoop, the FDA food recall site, and all individual food websites, and a food energetics and allergies article in Dogs Naturally Magazine, I have settled only for the moment on Nature's Variety Limited Ingredient Diet Kibble and Can (She will get both) Duck formula. Duck is a cold protein source which should reduce inflammation in her body and she has been on Acana's Duck and Bartlett Pear before and did well. My problem with Acana is that they don't have a canned food and Mark doesn't want her on kibble only. Actually neither do I for moisture purposes, his is because he thinks she doesn't want to only eat kibble. Haha I know that Nature's Variety did have a recall a few years ago, but never for the routine salmonella. I honestly can't remember the exacts because it wasn't something I considered a problem for me--it had to do with the chicken in the raw. Any advice is ALWAYS appreciated.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Princess Ella, you asked if she had the hepatitis vaccination--I have researched, and I am sure she had that vaccine as it seems to be a pretty routine vaccine, and the vet I used with her at the time was a huge fan of vaccines. lol The hepatitis dogs get as a result of not having that vaccine is pretty rare because of the vaccine. The other kinds of hepatitis are acute and chronic. Chronic being the worst as it can cause eventual liver failure, and acute being the milder of the two because if caught and treated early (which Lulu's was) I believe they recover and are fine. In both cases there is no way to know how she contracted it except possibly a liver biopsy. My vet has not suggested this, and I don't think he will with the recovery she has had in the past two weeks. I am thinking we will probably do bloodwork again in a month although my vet hasn't suggested this yet, I'm assuming he will after she has had another month of medicine. My plan is to make sure she is on a diet that is a low purine food (but one she can have for allergy purposes),keep her on milk thistle, and recheck her bloodwork every 6 months for a while. I am terrified it is the beginning of the chronic hepatitis instead of acute--will ask doctor how you know the difference.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

LS, I had a last minute mind-change. I just don't think it is a problem to mix brands even though I have heard you shouldn't I think that's a myth that food manufactures tell to get you to stay within their brand. I am going to continue with the Nature's Variety canned Duck for a topper, but I am going with the Acana Duck and Bartlett Pear for kibble. She has had this before and is fine with it why throw something else new in the mix.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

lulu'smom said:


> It's the discipline training I stink at--the only thing that makes Lulu not absolute perfection in my eyes is that she still barks when I tell her to stop sometimes.


This made me laugh. My girls are all well mannered but they are dogs! Of course they sometimes still bark when I have said to stop. Sounds to me that you have a well-adjusted, sweet girl who is now on her way to officially being a HEALTHY girl as well!!


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

jesuschick said:


> This made me laugh. My girls are all well mannered but they are dogs! Of course they sometimes still bark when I have said to stop. Sounds to me that you have a well-adjusted, sweet girl who is now on her way to officially being a HEALTHY girl as well!!


Haha! That makes me feel better!! Oh I pray so, Karen! Some of the things I read about hepatitis scared me, but although I feel I was reading reputable sources I do have to remember it is the internet.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

So happy your sweet baby is improving!!! :cheer:

If you find a solution to make them not bark, please post your secret. When mine decide to bark, shooshing stops them long enough to see what Mama is babbling about. :lol:


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

TLI said:


> So happy your sweet baby is improving!!! :cheer:
> 
> If you find a solution to make them not bark, please post your secret. When mine decide to bark, shooshing stops them long enough to see what Mama is babbling about. :lol:


Thank you! It makes me feel so good to know I am not alone in the barking category! LOL I will say though Lulu's barking is not as bad when she's by herself as it is when she and Gidget are together. It's almost as if they are completing to see who can alert us the loudest! I just think that is life in the house with multiples but I would NEVER have it any other way!!


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

lulu'smom said:


> Thank you! It makes me feel so good to know I am not alone in the barking category! LOL I will say though Lulu's barking is not as bad when she's by herself as it is when she and Gidget are together. It's almost as if they are completing to see who can alert us the loudest! I just think that is life in the house with multiples but I would NEVER have it any other way!!


Oh trust me, you are far from alone. Some Chi's don't bark as much as others, but I've never met a "quiet" one. :lol: I will say that Jade doesn't bark much, but if the others are going at it, she'll start "chirping" too. :lol: You are spot on about them being together. If I take only one somewhere, I never hear a peep. But get 2 or more together, and it's on like donkey kong. They'll even look at each other like, "I don't know what the hell we are barking at/about, but I'll stop when you stop, deal?" :lol: :lol: 

Quick funny story. I ran into a Chi owner at Petsmart. She was raving about how her Chi never barks. She was holding her, pup quiet as can be. She was looking at clothes for her baby, and as we started walking off she sat her down thumbing through the clothes and stuff. Lady walks up with a Doxie, and her pup goes nuts! Barking non-stop, hair standing on its back, teeth showing.....She says, "she never acts like this." Hahahahahaha!!!! I was thinking, yep, I bet! :lol:


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Oh, and to add. I was thanking The Lord at that point that mine just like to bark. Not turn into a raging, teeth showing tyrant. :lol:


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

TLI said:


> Oh trust me, you are far from alone. Some Chi's don't bark as much as others, but I've never met a "quiet" one. :lol: I will say that Jade doesn't bark much, but if the others are going at it, she'll start "chirping" too. :lol: You are spot on about them being together. If I take only one somewhere, I never hear a peep. But get 2 or more together, and it's on like donkey kong. They'll even look at each other like, "I don't know what the hell we are barking at/about, but I'll stop when you stop, deal?" :lol: :lol:
> 
> Quick funny story. I ran into a Chi owner at Petsmart. She was raving about how her Chi never barks. She was holding her, pup quiet as can be. She was looking at clothes for her baby, and as we started walking off she sat her down thumbing through the clothes and stuff. Lady walks up with a Doxie, and her pup goes nuts! Barking non-stop, hair standing on its back, teeth showing.....She says, "she never acts like this." Hahahahahaha!!!! I was thinking, yep, I bet! :lol:


T, you are soooo right and toooo funny!! :laughing6::laughing6::laughing6:


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

lulu'smom said:


> T, you are soooo right and toooo funny!! :laughing6::laughing6::laughing6:


 :lol: :laughing6:


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Years ago, I had a little shepherd mix about 40 pounds. One day she got to vomiting and wouldn't/couldn't stop. Off to the vet. Liver values were through the roof just like yours. He kept her for a day or two, then asked me to come and get her. (I had my brother's family living with me for a short time then) I was instructed to bring the 'kids along. He brought the dog in and then asked each kid (5) that 'did they want her to die'? Of course they all said NO! Then he told them NOT TO FEED HER ANYTHING. Just your aunt (me) was to feed her. They were so concerned they didn't feed that little mutt anything. She went on to recover fully and lived almost another 10 years. This had nothing to do with the vaccine for hepatitis. Any liver inflammation is called hepatitis. What virus caused it,was unknown to me.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Yay! I'm so happy for you and Lulu. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

susan davis said:


> Years ago, I had a little shepherd mix about 40 pounds. One day she got to vomiting and wouldn't/couldn't stop. Off to the vet. Liver values were through the roof just like yours. He kept her for a day or two, then asked me to come and get her. (I had my brother's family living with me for a short time then) I was instructed to bring the 'kids along. He brought the dog in and then asked each kid (5) that 'did they want her to die'? Of course they all said NO! Then he told them NOT TO FEED HER ANYTHING. Just your aunt (me) was to feed her. They were so concerned they didn't feed that little mutt anything. She went on to recover fully and lived almost another 10 years. This had nothing to do with the vaccine for hepatitis. Any liver inflammation is called hepatitis. What virus caused it,was unknown to me.


Thanks, Sue. I have no problem with not feeding her anything, but her food so I will do that. I thought that was what I understood as well about hepatitis until I read about chronic hepatitis and it scared me. I am hoping it was just some virus she somehow caught and is over and we can move on.


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## nabi (Nov 25, 2004)

Tina...I am so happy to hear Lulus lab were so improved....you are doing a great job looking after her...she knows she is loved !


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

pupluv168 said:


> Yay! I'm so happy for you and Lulu.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


Thanks, Ashley. 



nabi said:


> Tina...I am so happy to hear Lulus lab were so improved....you are doing a great job looking after her...she knows she is loved !


Thanks, Kathleen. I really do believe she knows she is loved.


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## lynx8456 (Feb 26, 2009)

lulu'smom said:


> I took Lulu back to the vet Monday morning for her two checkup to have her blood drawn again for a recheck. The results came back, and she is MUCH better! I wish I knew how to post both test results (I tried to take pics but I can't make it small enough for the thread and still readable), but I'll just give them.
> AST(SGOT) was 368 now 52 acceptable range: 15-66.
> ALT (SGPT) was 749 now 185 acceptable range: 12-118.
> BUN/Creatinine Ratio was 32 now 13 acceptable range: 4-27.
> ...


My dog Jasper suffers from Focal seizures (a form of canine epilepsy) and as of the last 3 months he has been diagnosed with a micro vascular liver shunt (also contracted a gastro-intestinal virus for a week recently). His meds. make it a struggle to get the liver numbers down (we do monthly testing). He was on straight SamE for a month , but since it did not work well Jasper is now on Denamarin (recommended). Jasper also get's a home cooked diet consisting of sweet potatoes, fish and veggies. I was just curious as to what liver med. you are using since the liver numbers look so good? Jasper will be going in tomorrow for his liver blood work (30 day mark on the denamarin) then we will do it again in another 30. We are really hoping for the same good results that you have had for LuLu! Good luck with the itching issue. Like you we are fighting an uphill battle day by day. Hopefully, for both of our doggies things will stabilize soon.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

lynx8456 said:


> My dog Jasper suffers from Focal seizures (a form of canine epilepsy) and as of the last 3 months he has been diagnosed with a micro vascular liver it a shunt (also contracted a gastro-intestinal virus for a week recently). His meds. make it a struggle to get the liver numbers down (we do monthly testing). He was on straight SamE for a month , but since it did not work well Jasper is now on Denamarin (recommended). Jasper also get's a home cooked diet consisting of sweet potatoes, fish and veggies. I was just curious as to what liver med. you are using since the liver numbers look so good? Jasper will be going in tomorrow for his liver blood work (30 day mark on the denamarin) then we will do it again in another 30. We are really hoping for the same good results that you have had for LuLu! Good luck with the itching issue. Like you we are fighting an uphill battle day by day. Hopefully, for both of our doggies things will stabilize soon.


So very sorry to know you are going through all this with Jasper. I will definitely keep him in my thoughts! The Sam-E medication she is on is Adenosyl. She was also on Metronidazole and another antibiotic that I don't remember the name of, and I threw the bottle away when she finished, but I will call the vet and ask what it was if you would like me to. PLEASE keep me posted on Jasper's bloodwork.


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## princess_ella (Jun 4, 2005)

lulu'smom said:


> So very sorry to know you are going through all this with Jasper. I will definitely keep him in my thoughts! The Sam-E medication she is on is Adenosyl. She was also on Metronidazole and another antibiotic that I don't remember the name of, and I threw the bottle away when she finished, but I will call the vet and ask what it was if you would like me to. PLEASE keep me posted on Jasper's bloodwork.


You have been using milk thistle too right


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## lynx8456 (Feb 26, 2009)

Jasper just recently came off the Metronidazole. We used it to break down any bacteria that may be in the liver from the shunt. *Adenosyl* Is that just a form of SamE or is it a SamE and Milk Thistle combo because the Denamarin is a combination of the two? Thought to be better for Liver rejuvenation and over all liver health. Something that if it works for Jasper, he can stay on it as long as needed. There is no need to call your vet for me , but ty. We are both dealing with liver issues , but 2 different types...I only asked because we have the same common goal and that is to get the liver numbers stabilized. In Jasper's case it is really hard because phenobarbital (he takes for the seizures) causes liver numbers to elevate due to the stress the liver is under to break down the medication. The SamE should help the liver to do that while the Milk Thistle should help promote liver cell healthy liver cells. Hence the combination we are using. 

Anyway, Jasper will be at the vets tomorrow for his blood work, plus I will be reviewing the journal I keep on Jasper's seizures/ and over all health with the vet. After all is said and done we will review Jasper's meds and see if any changes are needed. TY again for your concern and sharing LuLu's story. Sending puppy hugs to her and you.


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## Evelyn (Oct 14, 2012)

I pray Lulu continues to do better and get well.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Thank you Evelyn.

Thank you Lynx. The Adenosyl is a SamE and Milk Thistle combination. She will be on it a while, and when she comes off I will give her Milk Thistle.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

Tina, how is your baby girl doing?


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

She seems to be doing OK. I have switched her to canned duck Mulligan Stew--love the company, but they don't have a duck kibble, and Acana duck and Bartlett pear. I am a little concerned that her water intake is still high for her and she doesn't rest as well at night as she always has, but that is things a mother notices that don't show up in bloodwork. We will just have to keep monitoring and see. Thank you for asking.


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