# Heart Murmur! :'(



## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

I wen't to the vets today, only to end up crying a little ways into the appointment. *Chloe has a Heart Murmur.* At first, I thought it wasn't too much of a big deal (Because it isn't in humans?) -- but then she explained what could possibly happen to Chloe, if it doesn't go away!  

If it stays, chances of her going to sleep when getting her spayed and waking up at the end of it, is bad..  She was also saying something about possible respiratory problems if it doesn't go away, i'm not all too sure, I was so over wealmed I kind of drew a blank when she was explaining, then burst out crying. She is also very small, smaller then I had expected! She won't be a very big adult, possibly half the size of Sera as an adult. My mom says not to worry, but I don't know what to think.

I'm so scared, Chloe does have little weird "snorts" and sprays sometimes form her nose, and tonight she was making weird sounds with her nose,  might have been a bit of reverse sneezing though.. i'm trying to calm myself down.

The vet said hopefully by next check-up (2 weeks) she won't hear it anymore, she said it was very faint in the first place - my breeders vet must have not picked up on it. She said if she had used the other bigger ??stethoscope?? she probably wouldn't have picked up on it.  

I'm so worried,  I don't know what to do or what could happen to her. I'm heading off to do some research on the internet about this. If *anyone* could help me out with that, it'd be *greatly appreciated! *

Has any of your chi's had this problem at this age? (10 weeks) Please any information on your experiences?


*EDIT:* Just to explain more, I remember the vet mentioning respiratory problems, but not really sure why. It may have been because I said something about her doing those weird "Mist sneezes" not snorts really, just really small small sneeze, more of her breathing out and making a mist.. which concerned me and then she somehow mentioned it could be tierd into the heart murmur...


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## TareG (Aug 13, 2005)

I don't have any experience with it. I could always ask my vet, too, he always gives me honest advice since he is my boss.

I have a heart murmer myself, but I don't know if any of the cautions you take with humans is applicable to chis???


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

My cavalier when I was younger had a heart murmur and she lived to be 9 so dont worry to much it only usually is a problem as they get older my dog died from a fit due to pyometra but we couldnt have her spayed due to the murmur. Usually it isnt a problem and as I said they often live to a good age I also recommend never breeding from her etc due to the stress it could cause just incase. Could the snorting be reverse sneazing or a cold (zero just got over one) never known of that being connected to a murmur tho. She'll probably just need extra tlc especially with her size, good luck and dont worry too much :wave:


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

nemochi said:


> My cavalier when I was younger had a heart murmur and she lived to be 9 so dont worry to much it only usually is a problem as they get older my dog died from a fit due to pyometra but we couldnt have her spayed due to the murmur. Usually it isnt a problem and as I said they often live to a good age I also recommend never breeding from her etc due to the stress it could cause just incase. Could the snorting be reverse sneazing or a cold (zero just got over one) never known of that being connected to a murmur tho. She'll probably just need extra tlc especially with her size, good luck and dont worry too much :wave:


I hope your right! Even 9 years kills me!  I would never breed her, either. It could be a cold, but i don't know.. I hope


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## KB (Apr 13, 2004)

someones dog was just recently diagnosed with one and she went to a different vet and that vet said that she did NOT have one, so maybe a second opinion since you were do upset (as I would be) maybe you can get better info. You have nothing to lose

good luck :wave: I will pray your sweetie is ok


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

KB mamma said:


> someones dog was just recently diagnosed with one and she went to a different vet and that vet said that she did NOT have one, so maybe a second opinion since you were do upset (as I would be) maybe you can get better info. You have nothing to lose
> 
> good luck :wave: I will pray your sweetie is ok


I don't think the vet would be mistaken, I mean, you can hear it - it's like the heart skips a beat. I even put my head up to chloe's heart for a while and I think i heard it, so did my boyfriend.. So i'm pretty sure its there! 

Thank you! Please do wish her the best of luck!


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## Ms_P (Apr 25, 2004)

One of the cats my old border had has a heart murmer. He has to take it every 6 months to get an ultra sound done to see if it's any worse. Did your vet mention anything about having it done? There are a few different kinds of murmers, did the vet give you any idea which kind it is? Or like the other member whose dog was diagnosed with a heart murmer, which grade it is?


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## BeamerFritzyKosmo (Mar 17, 2004)

Our Fritzy was born with a severe heart mumur caused by a congenital defect that needed to be corrected by open heart surgery. Sometimes puppies will be born with a mumur but if its low grade, they many times actually outgrow it. Some dogs have a mumur and can live happy healthy lives despite it. If the vet didn't suggest that it needed to be corrected by surgery then you have a far better chance of the mumur not affecting the quality of life of you pup.


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

Ms_P said:


> One of the cats my old border had has a heart murmer. He has to take it every 6 months to get an ultra sound done to see if it's any worse. Did your vet mention anything about having it done? There are a few different kinds of murmers, did the vet give you any idea which kind it is? Or like the other member whose dog was diagnosed with a heart murmer, which grade it is?


She only told me the possibilitys that COULD happen, and told me the worst that could happen (she has to by law) but also told me it was very FAINT, and the other vet probably missed it, and she is hoping she will grow out of it, at this point she only heard it through the scope, and if it continues.. she'll look further into how bad it is, but right now i dont think its that severe (she didnt say so...)


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

BeamerFritzyKosmo said:


> Our Fritzy was born with a severe heart mumur caused by a congenital defect that needed to be corrected by open heart surgery. Sometimes puppies will be born with a mumur but if its low grade, they many times actually outgrow it. Some dogs have a mumur and can live happy healthy lives despite it. If the vet didn't suggest that it needed to be corrected by surgery then you have a far better chance of the mumur not affecting the quality of life of you pup.



Yeah.. I really hope she does out grow it!


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## Auggies Mom (Jun 9, 2004)

I am so sorry  Let's try to keep the most positive thoughts that it will be gone when your vet checks again in 2 weeks. obviously if I were you i would be wooried to death too


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## My3Girls (Apr 6, 2004)

Aww Wendy,Im so sorry. Im praying that she will be ok. You know where to get me if you need to talk


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## TareG (Aug 13, 2005)

Let's hope she grows out of it, and that does happen quite often, so keep your chin up! I would get more info from the vet, too.

And just to let you know, if it sounds like the heart is skipping a beat, that is NOT a heart murmer. That would be an irregular heart beat, which is diferent entirely! A heart murmer has nothing to do with heart palpitations. In a murmer, the beats are all there, but there is a sloshing noise in the background, as the definition of a murmer is when one of the valves does not shut completely when the heart is pumping, and blood consequently sloshes backwards through the heart a little.

I am wishing the best for you and your pup!


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

TareG said:


> Let's hope she grows out of it, and that does happen quite often, so keep your chin up! I would get more info from the vet, too.
> 
> And just to let you know, if it sounds like the heart is skipping a beat, that is NOT a heart murmer. That would be an irregular heart beat, which is diferent entirely! A heart murmer has nothing to do with heart palpitations. In a murmer, the beats are all there, but there is a sloshing noise in the background, as the definition of a murmer is when one of the valves does not shut completely when the heart is pumping, and blood consequently sloshes backwards through the heart a little.
> 
> I am wishing the best for you and your pup!



Thank you all for the incouraging words!! I really needed that!

I know how it works, the blood going backwards and such, but my boyfriend said it sounded like it skipped beat, but more like a double beat that it is really.. hes supposed to be smart with that kind of stuff :scratch: (so he says...)

Uhmm.. I'm not too sure what to listen to now.. i'm constantly picking her up and listening to her little heart..


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## Ms_P (Apr 25, 2004)

My son's doctor described the noise in a heart murmer like the noise a washing machine makes when it's going through the wash cycle.

I hope she out grows it too!


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## TareG (Aug 13, 2005)

Kurrazie said:


> He has one, too.. I actually had one has a baby too.. grew out of it, maybe it will continue in the 'lines' ..hehe..


More encouraging words! hehe:

To tell you the truth, most people born with one grow out of it. It is when you get one when you are older that you end up stuck with it. So hopefully with puppies it is the same! I will ask for you today at work, I promise!


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## AEROMarley1983 (Sep 12, 2005)

Oh my goodness.  I have my fingers crossed for you both.

I was actually born with a heart murmur as well. I believe, unfortunately, that it is fairly common.


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## LoveMyDogs (Dec 14, 2005)

I'm sorry you got such scary news! I hope she grows out of it. I would think chances of her outgrowing it would be better than not outgrowing it, if it's anything like in humans. ((((hugs))) Let us know how she's doing & hang in there!


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## ngtah00 (Jun 20, 2005)

I am really sorry to hear that little chole has a murmur. keep us updated when you go back to the vet in 2 weeks. 

about the heart skipping thing, taraG was right. that's not a heart murmur. the skipping is normal in humans when taking a breath in. actually you shouldn't be able to hear your baby's murmur with your ears. if so, it would be a very high grade murmur. Because your vet only heard it with a stethoscope it's a low grade murmur. also your vet hasn't recommended surgery yet, so the probability that it will go away with age is still possible. 

just try to give your girl a little tlc and we are all here supporting you.


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

ngtah00 said:


> I am really sorry to hear that little chole has a murmur. keep us updated when you go back to the vet in 2 weeks.
> 
> about the heart skipping thing, taraG was right. that's not a heart murmur. the skipping is normal in humans when taking a breath in. actually you shouldn't be able to hear your baby's murmur with your ears. if so, it would be a very high grade murmur. Because your vet only heard it with a stethoscope it's a low grade murmur. also your vet hasn't recommended surgery yet, so the probability that it will go away with age is still possible.
> 
> just try to give your girl a little tlc and we are all here supporting you.


Thank you again guys! I really appreciate the support.

I will have to talk to my boyfriend and tell him he's made a mistake, possibly ask my parents about that...

I will still listen to her little heart, its some what reasurring.... don't know why.


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## Sugar.Geisha (Dec 21, 2005)

I found this on the "dummies" (chihuahuas for dummies) website

Heart murmur
Heart murmurs are relatively uncommon in Chihuahuas and even those that have one usually have the functional type. *As in people, that means they can be as active and athletic as they want and live long, normal lives.*

I hope that helps a bit - I will look for some more info for you if you want tho.


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## Sugar.Geisha (Dec 21, 2005)

Found this on wizardofclaws.com

Heart murmurs can occur for many reasons that are never of any consequence to the pet or the pet's quality of life.


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

As far as I know, if its not really server, the only thing it should effect is her being spayed..


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## chihuahua_kisses (Nov 8, 2005)

First of all, calm down. My Nola has a heart murmur to and I'm not too worried about it. It's only a grade 2 which is not bad. Have the doctor tell you what grade it is. If it's above a grade 2 then your vet may perscribe a vasodilator which will open up her blood vessels to help blood flow better. My Nola also has a collapsing trachea which is common for little dogs but it's not something to worry about unless they can hardly catch their breath then it's a matter of getting it fixed which means $$$$. But, I wouldn't worry about it unless your vet acts like there is something to be seriously concerned about. People live with heart murmurs all the time. Dogs can to.


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

chihuahua_kisses said:


> First of all, calm down. My Nola has a heart murmur to and I'm not too worried about it. It's only a grade 2 which is not bad. Have the doctor tell you what grade it is. If it's above a grade 2 then your vet may perscribe a vasodilator which will open up her blood vessels to help blood flow better. My Nola also has a collapsing trachea which is common for little dogs but it's not something to worry about unless they can hardly catch their breath then it's a matter of getting it fixed which means $$$$. But, I wouldn't worry about it unless your vet acts like there is something to be seriously concerned about. People live with heart murmurs all the time. Dogs can to.



were you able to get her spayed?


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## Jen (Sep 13, 2005)

My chi Oreo had that and he lived a long and happy life.  I'm sorry you have to worry and I hope everyone's posts have helped to ease your mind. You just sounded so upset in your first post and I felt so bad for you.  I know what it's like to get news like that from your vet. It just overwhelms you.


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

Rylie is a small chi, and she has bouts of reverse sneezing also... I asked the vet about this 2 days ago, actually (since Rylie has an appt. every tuesday for shots). It is normal... a lot of times chis with apple heads can get food and water lodged in the wrong tube and they "reverse sneeze" trying to get it out, as I was told. Smaller chis aren't too uncommon, and Chloe shouldn't really have an issue with her size. Rylie is almost 4 months old now, and has just recently hit the 2lb mark (she weighs 2.2lbs as of Tuesday). I was also terrified of her having a heart murmur, but her checkup was great in that area.

My parents have an 8 year old toy poodle who has had a heart murmur since she was a puppy. She is on heart meds now, but she has lived a normal and healthy life. She has a cough when she gets excited, but my parents make sure to keep her calm in order to not put any stress on her heart.

***Daisy (the poodle) weighs between 8-10 lbs, and is spayed.

Good luck


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## usmcjess (May 3, 2005)

Very sorry to hear about your baby. I hope everything goes well with her. She will be in my prayers.


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

Thank you all  :wave:


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

Aw, Wendy I'm sorry to hear that. I'm hoping it'll go away and isn't a big deal. I would try to get a second opinion as that wouldn't hurt. Just keep thinking positive thoughts for her next vet visit. Good luck with everything and little Chloe will be in my thoughts. :wave:

Also, did you talk to her breeder?


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

Aww Wendy, she'll be o.k. Just like everyone else said, humans live with them just fine  . Hopefully it'll be low grade. :wave:


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## BeamerFritzyKosmo (Mar 17, 2004)

Sugar.Geisha said:


> Found this on wizardofclaws.com
> 
> Heart murmurs can occur for many reasons that are never of any consequence to the pet or the pet's quality of life.


All be it true that heart murmurs can occur for different reasons the vast majority are congenital defects and dogs who's offspring produce such defects should not be bred again. It can most definately have consequence on the dogs quality of life depending on the severity of the case. I would't believe anything written or spoken by wizard of claws, not even in a court of law. For those who don't know they are brokers for puppymills and stay far far away from them!

Wendy, if you haven't already you need to inform your breeder that your pup has been diagnosed with a heart mumur and that your vet will be following up on it. If your dog has to go on meds or needs specialized care in the future, you should be entitled to a refund in some of your costs. Plus, those dogs should not be bred again.


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

Thank you, i emailed the breeder and she said something like "most puppies grow out of it" etc so I don't like e-mailing her about it, shes not very clear in her emails, doesnt make too much sense. So, i figure when I go back in 2 weeks and get more information on it ill give her a call, and most certainly if she is going to have problems I will be asking her for some money back, she was not cheap. 

I am beginning to think she was inbred, now i dont know that for sure but she has alot of dogs at her home that run in her lines, such as her dad & grandfather and now has her mother. 

She is AKC registerd but do they look into that enough??


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

If she is AKC registered, you should be able to get her pedigree. Isn't it like atleast five generations? Hopefully someone could clarify that. :wave:


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

How would i be able to do that? what if she lied and or one of her otther dogs accidently bred with her grandmother unknowly. (i know it wasnt her mom as her mom was sold to her pregnet)


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

Kurrazie said:


> Thank you, i emailed the breeder and she said something like "most puppies grow out of it" etc so I don't like e-mailing her about it, shes not very clear in her emails, doesnt make too much sense. So, i figure when I go back in 2 weeks and get more information on it ill give her a call, and most certainly if she is going to have problems I will be asking her for some money back, she was not cheap.
> 
> I am beginning to think she was inbred, now i dont know that for sure but she has alot of dogs at her home that run in her lines, such as her dad & grandfather and now has her mother.
> 
> She is AKC registerd but do they look into that enough??


A lot of show dogs are "line bred" which means related dogs not that closely related are bred together to keep "type" within the pups. I'd get a copy of her pedigree and look through it all and that way you'll know what her breeding is like also if she's AKC there is a chance you might find some of her relatives online or dogs related to her that are shown  Hows the little ones sneezing (or was it coughing)?


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

Kurrazie said:


> How would i be able to do that? what if she lied and or one of her otther dogs accidently bred with her grandmother unknowly. (i know it wasnt her mom as her mom was sold to her pregnet)


ok "sold to her pregnant??" now I am confused did the breeder actually witness the breeding of your pups parents?


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

I don't know if she witnessed it, but the father of Chloe is her dog, and the mother at the time was another persons, then he/she sold the mother to my breeder. i know my breeder owns the father & grandfather of Chloe, and she also owns the mom now, and i dont know about any others.

As for the little weird sneezes/spays, she still does it.


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

The sneezing is probably reverse sneezing, my 2 do it quite a bit and as long as she doesnt sound congested I doubt it's a cold. umm does ur breeder have a website or anything? sounds like an odd situation but as long as ur little ones healthy and her murmur isnt bad you have nothing to worry about  btw I would get a copy of her AKC pedigree just incase you need it later


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

Nope, its not a reverse sneeze. She does that too, so its not that (Also, I have another chihuahua who does them too.) 

p.S how do i get her pedigree? I know mother and fathers names only.


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

You need to fully AKC register her, I believe you can do it online. Did the breeder give you her registration papers?


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

I got only one paper really with everything on it and it says her id and mothers and stuff i think ill check it out.......... anyone help?


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