# I saw the tiniest chi baby today



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

We went to a Flea Market today (I know this is a No No for buying dogs) but these Chis looked so healthy and their cages were clean and you had to sanitize your hands before touching them. This little Chi baby was black and white and was so tiny. Ofcourse it was 6 weeks old and much to young to be taken away from its mom but it was still so tiny. Its siblings were small but he was just itsy bitsy. He literally fit in the palm of my hand. I wanted to buy him so bad today just so he wouldnt go to a bad home. One of the other Chi breeders out there was going to buy him and she had horribly unhealthy chis and I know she was going to breed him. I am sure he is gone by now but I got their number and I keep wanting to call:-( 

I really have never considered another chi before just because I dont want to hurt Yoshis feelings, He is so spoiled and such a mamas boy. But now I kinda got puppy fever and I wonder if Yoshi would enjoy having a friend with him when we are not home?


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## Kioana (Mar 1, 2005)

I say CALL!

you know that you could give this chi the best home then do it, Yoshi will be fine hey he just might thank you.


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## Katie (Apr 9, 2005)

i say get him too  i know a lot of people are against buying from pet stores but there are always exceptions and hey i have 2 pet store dogs so i can't say much about it lol let us know what you decide!!


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

My opinion is a little different than what's been posted so far.

I wouldn't call them, if I were you. If you buy one of their puppies, they are just going to keep breeding and selling puppies at flea markets. Those puppies are too young to be away from their mother and littermates... also, they could have parvo and various other diseases/problems.

I know it's hard... 2 years ago, I almost bought a puppy from a puppystore because I felt bad for her. However, I knew that if I bought her she would just quickly be replaced by another puppy. 

The way to put them out of business is to not support them. Just think about the poor parents of the puppies who are forced to have litter after litter for greed.


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## Katie (Apr 9, 2005)

I get the concept of not buying them but if you don't someone else will or they'll just lower the price until it sells. I believe that until laws are more strict on pet stores and breeding, pet store puppies won't go away.


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

The problem is, the government actually likes petstores. Most of the economy from puppymill states {Pennsylvania, Missouri, etc) comes from puppymills. The government sees them as the great American farmers, not to mention they get a ton of tax money from them. 

They were actually trying to pass a law through that would make it illegal for people to protest against petstores/puppymills 

However, if the puppystores have to continually lower the prices, they won't make any money and will be forced to go out of business eventually.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Well I caved and called. He had a deposit on him from that breeder. As tiny as he is going to be I am sure that breeder will get him:-( The man said that she is supposed to pick him up Thursday. However she did mention she would have to sell one of hers before she could afford him and as bad a shape as hers looked I am not sure if it will happen or not? I told him I would call him back Thursday. Just something about that little guy is sticking with me:-( I took a picture but my camera phone takes such small pics through photobucket. I may try to post anyways. 

I do know better but my little Yoshi came from a horrific breeder that we just happened upon and I just couldnt leave him and he has been the best little guy ever I know it could go the other way as well so It made me very nervous about this little puppy but still something about him:-(


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## Gypsy (Feb 13, 2006)

I'm sorry it didn't turn out well.  It's so heartbreaking to see these kind of things. I know that that breeder must not be a good one if she's getting her breeding chis from a flea market :roll: But hopefully he will end up in a good home. I know it's so hard to walk away from situations like that and I always say to try, but I know when you are in the situation it can be different, my Deedlit came from a terrible breeder, I totally knew better, but I fell in love and couldn't leave her in the conditions she was in, to this day I do not regret it although I know that every puppy sale including her, contributed to that terrible breeder. It's a hard situation.


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## tiny- dog- luverr (Oct 28, 2005)

Me and my friend did the same thing but with baby horses, trying to save the sickly and weak ones at fairs, but yeah they will just replace those poor baby animals with new ones, its sad. If you really have your set on him then call thursday id love to know if it works out. id love to see his pic if you have it even if it is small, he sounds adorable. That sickly chi breeder should be reported to the spca.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Well here is the little doll. Believe it or not this picture makes him look bigger. I think it is the angle. He is also spread across my hand asleep. I hope he is just sleeping and not having any dehydration/hypoglycemia issues? He could easily sit in the palm of my hand and have room to spare. He was just too cute for words.


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

omg he is sooo cute no wonder you want him and hopefully on thursday the awful woman dosent get him and its you who does (imagine having to sell one of her chis to get another thats so sad she musnt have a heart ) 
i will say a prayer that he finds his home with you


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## cocochihuahua (Jun 2, 2006)

Aw bless her heart.
I think i would feel exacly the same as you.
That breeder sounds awful- selling one of her own for a new one!!! Arrgh!!
Although my only worry is is that lil Yoshie might not like her. Coco has alwasy been a spoilt lil mamas boy too since i got him frm a pup two years ago, now ive just bought a new pup and he desnt like her at all!!!


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## Jayne (Jul 8, 2005)

Oh he is so tiny   I totally understand what Jessie is saying and buying them from places like that does promote it even more but then like Katie said if you dont buy them someone else will !


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## Jenilyn (Sep 9, 2007)

I say do what your heart tells you to do. if you dont take him home, someone else might and that could be either good or bad lol. i say if you have room and the heart to take him do it!

good luck!


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## lebecron (May 10, 2007)

I totally agree with Jenilyn! I would follow my heart on this one. We all know the moral aspects, over the breeding circumstances, but you have obviously made a connection with this little guy, so I'd go for it if the opportunity arises on Thursday! Fran.


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## Lin (Jun 7, 2006)

Katie said:


> I get the concept of not buying them but if you don't someone else will or they'll just lower the price until it sells. I believe that until laws are more strict on pet stores and breeding, pet store puppies won't go away.


That's exactly my feeling Katie... They aren't going to go away, so you may as well rescue from there as a shelter.


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## cocochihuahua (Jun 2, 2006)

Let us know what you hear from her!


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## Alisha (Mar 11, 2005)

That little fella looks just like Fender :love7: 

I got 2 of my dogs from bad breeders & I'd hate to think about where their lives would be if I hadn't  Go with your gut as others have said it's not really gonna matter if you don't get him someone else will surely buy him


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

im not quite sure how anyone can with good mind encourage the purchase of this little one...
i understand, AWW hes cute "rescue him" but youll spend a fortune, encouraging this breeder to do this more, not to mention what you could bring home to yoshi...imagine a parvo outbreak, suprisingly common in mill and petstore puppies, parvoe can EASILY kill a dog as small as a chihuahua.

in my opinion its just NOT worth it...is he cute, YES...
but personally it'd be better for the puppies sold at that market, if you to spend your time educating as many people that will listen on the horrors of supporting people like this!

im with Jessie...


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## Pookypeds (Jun 20, 2006)

So what happens to these puppies if no one buys them? Are they allowed to die??? I think pet shops, etc., will be around no matter if we buy or not. There are always going to be some people who will always buy at these shops. The way to eradicate them would be to somehow get the government involved with laws to somehow restrict them. I think alot of us on here are torn about this because some of our chis were bought this way before we knew how pet shops really are or the fact that there are puppy mills. I never knew these things before I got my chis.


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## Pookypeds (Jun 20, 2006)

Oh....and I might add that Pedro would have died if my daughter had not bought him (at a petshop). When she brought him to me, he nearly died 2 days later. I had to take him to a vet for an emergency visit, as he was dying in my arms! Someone else who could have bought him might not have known what to do! Just a thought, there!


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

"im not quite sure how anyone can with good mind encourage the purchase of this little one...
i understand, AWW hes cute "rescue him" but youll spend a fortune, encouraging this breeder to do this more, not to mention what you could bring home to yoshi...imagine a parvo outbreak, suprisingly common in mill and petstore puppies, parvoe can EASILY kill a dog as small as a chihuahua.

in my opinion its just NOT worth it...is he cute, YES...
but personally it'd be better for the puppies sold at that market, if you to spend your time educating as many people that will listen on the horrors of supporting people like this!

im with Jessie..."


Your preaching to the choir I am always educating the public about bybs and puppy millers and there being no such thing as Teacups and about the different kc registrations and how some will let anything be registered. Believe me I know about Parvo and about all of the other potential dangers. This is why I did not buy him. My heart was saying buy him but my mind was telling me not to. I have seen the horrors that come out of puppy mills, I volunteered for Mid-Atlantic Great Dane Rescue League for more than 3 yrs and although I do not do much volunteering since I relocated I am about to start back. It is just difficult doing volunteering on weekends and showing my Great Dane on weekends as well, they seem to overlap each other:-( But I plan on making time

It is hard to say no to these little guys and I agree with both points made here. Until something is really done about the bybs and millers it will continue no matter who buys from whom. I also agree that buying from them promotes them and causes them to keep on breeding:-( I hate going to flea markets and pet shops just for these reasons and I hate being tempted even knowing better:-( My husband talked me into going to the flea market this weekend:-(

It just breaks my heart to see animals in this shape and then I see all of the rescues full of pups and adults that people just throw away:-( I mean why get a dog or any other animal if you are not going to follow through with it for the rest of its life and care for it accordingly. I know there are other circumstances like a death of an owner or health of an owner or even financial reasons that cause for someone not to be able to care for them properly but it is usually some lame reason. 

Sorry I went on a rant it just gets my blood boiling thinking about it.


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

not a problem yoshismom, i figured you did, it just suprised me to see so many saying "hey its ok, yes youll be supporitng a byb or miller but buy him anyway" and that drives me nuts.

the ONLY way to stop puppymillers it to stop buying the puppies in petstores...what happens to the ones in the stores right now...they generally get sold off cheaper or if not sold go back to the millers who then tend to sell them off to other millers BUT...
if everybody stopped buiying petstore puppies...the petstores would close....if the petstores closed the puppymills would have noone to sell to, if they are not making money off their dogs they sell their breedingstock to buy something that does make money...

stop buying petstore puppies and the wave that follows will shut down 99% of puppy mills....
stop buying backyard bred "just wanted her to have one litter" puppies and the bybs wont be making anything off the puppies and will eventually stop doing it...
yes it means heartbreak for those now...but if it shuts down the mills completly because there is no market...id rather do it that way.

belive me i know about petstore puppies, ive seen the horrors of behind the scenes at those places and 90% of petstore puppies are VERY sick when sold...yes you saved that one...but a mear 1/2 of that puppies price buys 3 more puppies...did you know that? petstores buy their puppies for between $100-$300 each...they sell them for $800-$5000...did you know that the brokers that buy the puppies from the mills to sell them to the petstores buy the puppies at 4-5 weeks old and buy them for $30-$80 per puppy...

so that $1000 chihuahua sitting in the window, with the droopy ears and that sad look, with about $3000 of underlying medical needs hidden waiting for future chances to surface, has actually cost the petstore a meer $250...

the authorities wont do anything about these places unless the measly requirments are broken...did you knwo that the law calls for Just enough space for the dog to stand up, turn around and lay down comfortably...needless to say ASPCA cant do much...
and the towns goverment loves mills because these "farmers" pay taxes...

only the public can stop millers, plain and simple...pet stores are around because people buy from them...NOT the other way around...
when the consumer stops buying, the store closes!


sorry if i came across as bitchy yoshismom, didnt mean it aimed at you...more at the suprise of the support of the general consensus on buying an obviously milled/byb puppy desite what we talk about when trying to teach others of the downfall of these places...


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

Great post, Foxy. I completely agree with you!

I've seen the "puppy order sheets" from brokers, and the puppies are $100-300... and they even have "buy one get one free" deals. The puppystores sell these dogs for so much money, so whenever a customer spends $1000s on a puppy, they can just easily buy a few more puppies. If everyone stops buying these pups, the petstores will have to drop the prices over and over again until they can't afford to stay in business.


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## Alisha (Mar 11, 2005)

Nobodys saying it's ok but those dogs deserve loving homes too. Your opinion is yours & mine is mine I have a right to mine as much as you do yours.


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## Katie (Apr 9, 2005)

I disagree with your theories but where anyone buys their dog is a personal choice and I don't think anyone should be looked down upon for it. There will always be people out there buying from pet stores because they're easily accessible, the owners lie about where they get their dogs, and the average American doesn't even know where those puppies actually come from.


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## chi_lve (Sep 10, 2007)

He is so adorable! I hope you get him~


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## lebecron (May 10, 2007)

Well said Alisha. It's all a case of personal choice. I respect those who would not purchase a dog from a petstore and I have never done so myself. However, I know that if I were to see a puppy that I wanted, I would go ahead and have her and I would be very upset to be judged by other people.


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

and its thoughts like that...that its ok to buy these puppies because its convenient, or "its cute" that keep these petstores in buisness....WORSE it keeps the mills in buisness...

i cannot support ANY purchase that tells millers, keeping their dogs in tiny rabbit hutches, surrounded by thilth, matted, and usually in pain, pumping out puppies every heat to send off to puppy stores for the publics "convenience"

*SIGH*

i would offer everyone that thinks its ok to buy puppy store puppies a challenge...walk around a puppymill, where these puppies come from, look at each dog, and try not to puke from the smell and cry at the sight of all those tiny faces just begging for a life more than they have, and THEN tell me its ok to support these places buy buying that puppy in the window because its cute and its more convenient than finding a responsible breeder!


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

I'm with Jessie and Foxy on this but I wont say anymore on the subject people know my opinions


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## Alisha (Mar 11, 2005)

Say what you want about my opinion wether you like it or not. I'm not keeping puppy mills in business I've never bought from one. Until the are shut down by some govenment force of law those puppies still need homes.I'm not telling anyone go buy dogs from horrible breeders so get over that idea. What I'm saying is if you feel in your heart you should save a puppy then do it. Alot of pople here have done that. You're saying that if they had more knowledge they wouldn't have done what their heart told them to. And those sweet puppies they have now would be breeder dogs or who know what life they'd have now.


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## lebecron (May 10, 2007)

"hey its ok, yes youll be supporitng a byb or miller but buy him anyway" and that drives me nuts.

I don't think anybody has actually said that here!!! You have a right to your opinion and nobody can dispute the fact that you are very knowledgeable on Chihuahuas and I have respected much of the advice you have put on here. However, we all have a right to our opinions too and I do not think that we should be criticised for that. Disagreeing is fine, but criticising is not what these Forums are about, surely!!!


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

it feels like im banging my head against a wall...
*sigh*

nowhere did i say anything baout your OPINION

what im stating is FACT
when you spend $1000+ on a petstore puppy your not SAVING it...the puppy will NOT be sent back to the mill unless by absolute nesecity because the mills and brokers wont give the petstores their money back...instead the stores will continue to lower their prices untill that puppy sells...

taking a dog from a high kill shelter thats SAVING a dog...

but what im saying is obviously a mute point because you seem to feel that we as a nation are powerless in this fight and must rely on the govement passing laws before this can change and because of that "do what your heart tells you" when you see a cute little puppy in a window and buy on a whim...

personally i like to hang on to the thought that i can fight, and educate people on the horrors that the dogs behind petstore puppies go through...
ive been to multiple mills, ive phtographed evidence, ive been to autions and "bought" dogs with rescue money through organizations that try and get as many out as possible...ive walked the lines, ive heald back the tears and strong desire to kick these peoples arses all in the hopes that those pictures, those eye witness statments will help somewhere along the lines in closing these places down...
Ive worked in puppy stores to gather evidence for the DoA to help shut the local stores down...

you opinion is that, an opinion...based on what though?

my opinion is based on things ive personally seen, and done, ive been through the inner workings of mills, petstores and brokers...
and unfortunatly for those mill dogs, the only ones that can help them are the public...
but as long as the public see the convenience of petstores and "do what their hearts tell them" based on some cute puppies in a window...
nothing will ever change.

ill say no more on this subject, sarah was smart  as is jessie for not getting involved...
me...my heart takes over on this one...i cant close my eyes and ears to the memories of those places ive seen.
but others obviously cannot see the part the consumer plays in the puppy buisness...
so ill give up and put the blinders back on i guess...


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## Alisha (Mar 11, 2005)

Foxy you are tryin to force your fact/opinion down peoples throats. Have you personally been to every single puppy mill to see the conditions I think not. There's no way for you to know that every puppy sold at a pet shop is from a horrible breeder. So yes alot of these facts you speak of are not truly facts they're opinions. If you think you can change everyones mind then you're wasting your time.I honestly don't want to argue. I just think that when people come here to talk about their new puppy that they're in love with they tend to get the third degree OMG you're feeding your dog that crap & you should've never bought your pup at all because the breeder is awful. That's not very welcoming & there are other ways to teach people other than cramming facts/opinions down their throats.JMO


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## Gypsy (Feb 13, 2006)

For one thing, the puppy that Yoshismom is talking about isn't from a PETSTORE it's from a flea market, which while not good either isn't from the same place petstore puppies come from. At least the flea markets I've been to, the booths are set up by individuals and those that sold dogs they were their own that they bred and just brought along to sell with the other stuff they hauled there. These are obviously backyard breeders which aren't good to support but the puppies haven't come from a puppymill and aren't supporting petstores selling dogs so to preach to her about buying from petstores doesn't make much sense. 

And I don't think anyone says you SHOULD go get your puppy from a petstore, I personally do not even go in petstores that sell dogs just to avoid giving them any business, not even to buy their other pet items, but that when someone is in the situation it can be different. Just as I, knowing better, bought Deedlit from a BYB, I can understand how someone would in wanting to save a puppy so much do what they know is wrong but follow their heart. Many members on here have been in similar situations and posted for advice, they chose to do different things which were their decisions and you can only offer your advice and opinion but you're not in their shoes. 

I don't think anyone on this forum condones puppymills, everyone loves their chis very much and would never try to harm one. However probably 50 or 60 percent of the chis on this board came from either a byb, a puppymill, or a petshop just because people didn't know better, people thought they were helping, or some other reason. I have seen absolutely horrible situations that dogs are in, and I've never caved in again and taken one of these babies but who's to say someday I might not.


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

The OP was making the decision of whether or not she was going to buy from a flea market, and we were encouraging her not to because of the facts of where they come from. 

No responsible breeder would have their puppies sold in a petstore. A good breeder breeds to better the breed... and would never have their puppies that they worked hard to raise sold in a petstore. A good breeder screens potential puppy buyers. A good breeder raises puppies with good temperments. A good breeder gets to know the puppy buyer, and will take a puppy back at any age of it's life. A good breeder would never let their puppies sit alone in a cage with a metal bottom in a puppystore... to be purchased by a random person. A responsible breeder doesn't make money from breeding... they do it for the love of the breed.

99% of puppies sold in petstores come from puppymills. Even if the conditions at every puppymill aren't dirty, the dogs are still living their lives in cages as breeding machines without human socialization. 

My dogs sleep in my bed and are treated like members of my family. It makes me sad to think that the dogs living at puppymills can never have that human attention that all dogs crave.


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

i just wanted to say WELL PUT JESSIE!

and between myself and the group i work with we have visited EVERY puppymill in connecticut, ny, maine, new jersy, Penslyvania and misourie...
between us we have not yet EVER seen one that isnt as desribed...and since lancaster county PA has the highest number of puppymills supplying the petstore buisness, combined with all the others, belive me the stats arnt pretty...

all puppies in petstores, fleamarkets ect come from mills and IRRESPONSIBLE breeders, as jessie already said, NO responsible breeder will EVER sell their pups to a petstore, and no responsible breeder would ever seel their puppies at some market...
a responsible breder has homes lined up for the pups before their born, a responsible breeder interveiws the person...a responsible breeder doesnt just give their pups to whoever can afford it...

and i THOUGHT part of the purpose of this board was to educate on what a responsible breeder and a responsible puppy buyer DOES...

Reasearch, learn, BEFORE buying their next puppy...
if you cant teach people by telling them what you have personally been through and seen, then HOW do you teach them?

and you cant CRAM something down someones throat if your not physically present...


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## Gypsy (Feb 13, 2006)

My point was not that puppymills are good, I know that they are horrible, as does the OP, my point WAS that a flea market is not the same as a petstore. Irresponsible breeders AKA BYBs sell their puppies at fleamarkets, but they do not order them from puppymills as petstores do so to me the whole petstore issue wasn't releavant here, if anything you could have said how bad it was to get a dog from a BYB. I just think that it's a little hypocritical when other people here, including some in this thread, have posted about "knowing it was wrong but really wanting to save this puppy from a petstore" they weren't treated so harshly and even argued their case.


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## Alisha (Mar 11, 2005)

foxywench said:


> and you cant CRAM something down someones throat if your not physically present...


True yet you continue to try 

I'm all for education but if you do so in a condescending manner people will stop listening then noone learns anything.


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## Pookypeds (Jun 20, 2006)

foxywench seems to be the type of person who believes HER way is the only way....and yes, that IS cramming it! A great educator is someone who can teach something to someone WITHOUT making them feel bad about what they formally knew or believed. foxy.....you're teaching the wrong way. You are pushing people AWAY from your opinions because you come across way too pushy with the opinion that you are always right! Your opinion is YOUR opinion. Not everyone else is going to agree with you. You can't force someone to believe your way. And I believed that this forum was more to just get together with other chi owners and enjoy our chis, and along the way get some new ideas and learn new things. But not to get opinions forced on me. I won't do that to anyone and I WON'T accept it from anyone else! Let's just enjoy the forum and not make it something we would be afraid to come to!


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## lebecron (May 10, 2007)

You don't need to be physically present to "cram something down someones throat" which of course is a figure of speech and not meant to be taken literally, I'm sure.

Perhaps some of us on here don't feel we need "educating." 

I am sure, as animal lovers, we all know the "correct" way to purchase a pup. However, life isn't always black and white. Sometimes you need to veer from the straight and narrow to do what you feel is right for you (and in this case, a pup) at that particular time. 

Discussion is fine. Advising is great! Preaching and criticising is not what most people on this site joined to hear.


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## CM Katie (Sep 28, 2005)

Pookypeds said:


> foxywench seems to be the type of person who believes HER way is the only way....and yes, that IS cramming it! A great educator is someone who can teach something to someone WITHOUT making them feel bad about what they formally knew or believed. foxy.....you're teaching the wrong way. You are pushing people AWAY from your opinions because you come across way too pushy with the opinion that you are always right! Your opinion is YOUR opinion. Not everyone else is going to agree with you. You can't force someone to believe your way. And I believed that this forum was more to just get together with other chi owners and enjoy our chis, and along the way get some new ideas and learn new things. But not to get opinions forced on me. I won't do that to anyone and I WON'T accept it from anyone else! Let's just enjoy the forum and not make it something we would be afraid to come to!


:thumbleft: Thank you for putting into words what many of us are thinking.


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## Katie (Apr 9, 2005)

I completely agree with you Shelly. People shouldn't be afraid to say how they feel or be afraid about what they did because someone over the internets pushy "facts". It's ok for people to have their own opinions on certain subjects or have a completely different point of view and they shouldn't feel bad about it.


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## Gypsy (Feb 13, 2006)

lebecron said:


> Perhaps some of us on here don't feel we need "educating."
> 
> I am sure, as animal lovers, we all know the "correct" way to purchase a pup. However, life isn't always black and white. Sometimes you need to veer from the straight and narrow to do what you feel is right for you (and in this case, a pup) at that particular time.
> 
> Discussion is fine. Advising is great! Preaching and criticising is not what most people on this site joined to hear.


Totally agree.   You put it perfectly with saying the world is not black and white and that the "correct thing to do" isn't always the right thing to do for a person.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I seemed to have started something and that was truly not my intention:-(

I am a 38 yr old mother and I have seen alot in my life as well. I have been one of many in my rescue group to go under cover and try to get information to shut mills and byb's down with our rescue organization. I am friends with the Humane Society in several counties in my area. I have several all animal rescue organizations that I work with and am good friends with. Not to mention an exotic animal rescue that houses and rehomes big cats and other exotics. I have seen alot in my time and sadly it doesnt look like it is going to get any better and I can truthfully state that it has gotten much worse:-( 

I am not sure what the answer is and I do not support the bybs and millers but it does sadden me so to see so many precious souls out there none of which deserves what is happening to them:-( I wish I could save them all from this fate but sadly it is not possible. I have trouble containing myself from purchasing these babies and one of the reasons I considered this one is because of the situation I knew for a fact he was going in. The lady stood there and discussed how she needed a tiny boy to breed:-( To see that tiny little life in her hands and knowing what it was going to go through was just sickening:-( I dont claim to know everything and I never will. I learn something new everyday and I have seen alot of things I wish I would have never seen. The fact is that there are cruel people out there that care nothing about those little lives and only about money. Those little souls out there have no control over their lives and they do not deserve this and they too deserve to be loved and cared for. I am not sure what the answer is but I dont think that not buying the pups is really going to help. In my opinion there are millions of people out there that either do not know or do not care and are still going to buy from these stores. We are but a few voices and although we try to do right and not buy and try to educate the public it still is only a few against millions. The Government sure isnt helping and some of these new laws they are trying to pass are a little ridiculous and are not going to stop the millers and byb's. 

I do know that boards like this do help educate. Every time I meet someone with a Chi I talk with them and tell them about this board. I loudly voiced my concern at the flea market at every cage to whom ever might have been listening how the puppies were not healthy, were to young to be sold, etc.... I have confronted the vendors and pet shop owners but it doesnt help, they always have an excuse as to why they are different or make you leave the store. I wish we could find an answer.

My Yoshi came from a horrible breeder, I purchased him and then reported the breeder. I look back on it and ponder what it would be like not to have caved and bought my beloved. He is my heart dog and there will never be another like him! I cant imagine my life without him. Alas I am only human and I make mistakes but I really do not look at my little Yoshi as a mistake but more or less my miracle. 

Please lets just all agree to disagree and keep passing on what we learn to others and try to educate as many as possible although it seems to be an uphill battle.

Thanks to everybody that posted their opinions I truly appreciate it


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## CM Katie (Sep 28, 2005)

Yoshismom said:


> I seemed to have started something and that was truly not my intention:-(


YOU didn't start anything. 
And I know what you mean about how you purchased Yoshi from a bad breeder, but he's your heart dog.
Carl's parents are both mixes. I don't agree with the breeding of mixes, but you know what? I have never regretted for a _second_ my decision to "support" Carl's breeder. I can't imagine my life without him. 



Yoshismom said:


> Those little souls out there have no control over their lives and they do not deserve this and they too deserve to be loved and cared for. I am not sure what the answer is but I dont think that not buying the pups is really going to help. In my opinion there are millions of people out there that either do not know or do not care and are still going to buy from these stores. We are but a few voices and although we try to do right and not buy and try to educate the public it still is only a few against millions. The Government sure isnt helping and some of these new laws they are trying to pass are a little ridiculous and are not going to stop the millers and byb's.


Very nicely put.


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## Lin (Jun 7, 2006)

This is the kind of high-handedness I was referring to when I wrote this a long time ago:

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?t=23572

Yoshismom, follow your heart my dear. Best Wishes.


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## CM Katie (Sep 28, 2005)

chis rule said:


> This is the kind of high-handedness I was referring to when I wrote this a long time ago:
> 
> http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?t=23572
> 
> Yoshismom, follow your heart my dear. Best Wishes.


Great thread Lin. 
And I agree, follow your heart. Do what *you *think is best. 
I bet Yoshi would love a little brother or sister- and I don't think he would care if his new playmate is standard


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## Pookypeds (Jun 20, 2006)

Totally agree with you Lin, just like the last time! Yoshismom.....Do follow your heart and get that chi pup! You might be the one to save its' life. And Please.....foxywench and others like her....lay off about perfection! This is an imperfect world, and most of us have dogs that have been bred "wrong" according to you. My chi's are definately here in this world the "wrong" way; but I and my family love them to pieces! The "wrongly-bred" dogs deserve love and a home, too!


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## canadiandawn (Jan 11, 2006)

Pookypeds said:


> foxywench seems to be the type of person who believes HER way is the only way....and yes, that IS cramming it! A great educator is someone who can teach something to someone WITHOUT making them feel bad about what they formally knew or believed. foxy.....you're teaching the wrong way. You are pushing people AWAY from your opinions because you come across way too pushy with the opinion that you are always right! Your opinion is YOUR opinion. Not everyone else is going to agree with you. You can't force someone to believe your way. And I believed that this forum was more to just get together with other chi owners and enjoy our chis, and along the way get some new ideas and learn new things. But not to get opinions forced on me. I won't do that to anyone and I WON'T accept it from anyone else! Let's just enjoy the forum and not make it something we would be afraid to come to!


I JUST WANTED TO SAY "WELL PUT POOKYPEDS!!":foxes15: But, well I must be one of those horrible, uneducated puppy mill supporters because BOTH my dogs came from Petland! Goodness me! I guess my OPINION/FACT doesn't matter anymore, now does it?


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## canadiandawn (Jan 11, 2006)

Oh and Yoshismom, I hope you figure out what YOU want to do. Whatever you decide, there are people here who won't be rude to you and celebrate your decision, whatever it may be.


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## Pookypeds (Jun 20, 2006)

Thanks canadiandawn! I think most of us have bought our dogs from a petstore or a back yard breeder. But that doesn't make us horrible. Our opinions count just as much as the others!


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## Dixie_Amazon (Sep 7, 2007)

Just because a chi doesn not meet the "standard" does not mean it is a substandard dog.


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

No one was discussing breed standard versus non breed standard chis.

We were just advising the OP why she shouldn't buy a dog that was more than likely from a puppymill.


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## Dixie_Amazon (Sep 7, 2007)

Sorry, I think I got confused and was actually speaking of something in another post mentioned. I will refain from futher comments.



chis rule said:


> This is the kind of high-handedness I was referring to when I wrote this a long time ago:
> 
> http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?t=23572
> 
> Yoshismom, follow your heart my dear. Best Wishes.


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## Alisha (Mar 11, 2005)

Dixie_Amazon said:


> Sorry, I think I got confused and was actually speaking of something in another post mentioned. I will refain from futher comments.


Dixie Chis rule wasn't speaking about your post I assure you


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## Lin (Jun 7, 2006)

Alisha said:


> Dixie Chis rule wasn't speaking about your post I assure you


No my dear Dixie, I was not speaking about your post.


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## Mac-Chi (Feb 5, 2007)

When we or should I say my wife decided we needed an inside dog/lap pup, we both read & read & looked around & decided on a chihauhua. We live in rural VA & the closest one - breeder w/a nice website sold chis for $1000 & up. Well, we don't have that kind of $$ so it took about a yr. and we came across a I guess you would say a hobby breeder. She was a very nice lady & we were interviewed over the phone & emailed back & forth. After meeting her & pick'n up our pup...she lived in TN but before we got home & checked our email (the next day) she was already emailing us wanting to know how our/her pup was doing & has followed up since. Now we picked up Rue from a classifed ad in another county who sold him to us for $75. He did come with his vet papers though, they "didn't have time for him" quote - he was in a crate all day. 2 & 1/2 weeks later he's coming along pretty good, but still fearful to strangers. Other than strangers he has settled in pretty good. He barks at his own shadow


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## Taylor89 (Jun 20, 2007)

Yoshismom said:


> We went to a Flea Market today (I know this is a No No for buying dogs) but these Chis looked so healthy and their cages were clean and you had to sanitize your hands before touching them. This little Chi baby was black and white and was so tiny. Ofcourse it was 6 weeks old and much to young to be taken away from its mom but it was still so tiny. Its siblings were small but he was just itsy bitsy. He literally fit in the palm of my hand. I wanted to buy him so bad today just so he wouldnt go to a bad home. One of the other Chi breeders out there was going to buy him and she had horribly unhealthy chis and I know she was going to breed him. I am sure he is gone by now but I got their number and I keep wanting to call:-(
> 
> I really have never considered another chi before just because I dont want to hurt Yoshis feelings, He is so spoiled and such a mamas boy. But now I kinda got puppy fever and I wonder if Yoshi would enjoy having a friend with him when we are not home?



we thought the same thing when we were planning on extending our chi clan but to our surprise our chis bonded really well and have become the best of friends. when one goes to the vet the others worry and wonder what happened


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## Tammie_B (Nov 19, 2005)

foxywench said:


> and its thoughts like that...that its ok to buy these puppies because its convenient, or "its cute" that keep these petstores in buisness....WORSE it keeps the mills in buisness...
> 
> i cannot support ANY purchase that tells millers, keeping their dogs in tiny rabbit hutches, surrounded by thilth, matted, and usually in pain, pumping out puppies every heat to send off to puppy stores for the publics "convenience"
> 
> ...


I am sorry to say this, but there are good breeders and bad breeders everywhere. If somebody wants to have "one" litter, they can. I did, and that doesn't make me a bad person. I have had dogs my entire life and they are treated like family. Your opinions are so strong that you group people into one big category. Don't you breed? or is it somebody in your family? What makes that right? There are always going to be bad breeders and good breeders. There is good and bad in everyone.

Heck, have you ever seen how they raise beef or chicken to eat? It is complete squaller. Worse than puppy mills. But I am sure you didn't stop eating or wearing leather... maybe you did... point is, it is YOUR choice.

I know you have experience. But you are still young. Educating people is one thing, demeaning them for making choices is another. People rescue animals for a reason. Letting it die isn't going to make a difference to a puppymill... it is no shirt off their backs... merely pennies.

Yoshismom... If you feel you want this puppy, go with your gut and your heart. Those two together don't lie to you.

I am sorry to rant, and do not want to offend anyone, but I get very angry when people tell others how they should feel and think that everyone should have the same beliefs as their own.


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## Stephy (Aug 29, 2007)

Yoshismom- You are a woman educated on this subject, you KNEW what the pup was going into. I think you should do what you think is best. If you have the time, money, and have thought about all the possiblities of "problems" with this pup, and still want to do it. I would if i was you. 
Kujo was an impulse buy- I did seek him out. He was from an OK byb. Truth be told i would buy from him again. These dogs need love too. I think of these pups as a rescue. Some complete moron is going to buy these dogs, shuffle them around and eventually end up in a shelter or dead. There is always going to be someone to buy these pups, shouldnt' it be a responsible person who knows what they are doing? I'm not sure i would have had as much control as you yoshismom, i would have saw what was going on and if i had the money i would have scooped him up in a heartbeat. whatever you choose to do it looks like there are plenty of people here ready back you up . good luck hon.


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## Jen (Sep 13, 2005)

just wanted to add this was closed because it appeared to have run it's course :wink:


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