# Trimming Long Coat chi for shows??



## FireFox (Jun 4, 2009)

Ok, so I was talking to my friend form Latvia, who shows her Long coat chi there, and she was telling me that they trim the hair around her ears shorter and her "pants" so they are not to long, because the judges prefer it to be that way! Many breeders do that there. I am little bit shocked because I thought that long coat chihuahuas should never be trimmed, especially for shows! 
Do you ever trim your long coats before shows?


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

I was told not to as some judges don't think long coat chis should be trimmed also is optional on cutting wiskers. but did hear judges hate it when you dont trimm the nails short. I dont think a chi should be trimmed much only those hairs that stick out of no where and should just be brushed.


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## *Chloe* (Feb 6, 2006)

the only fur i trim is the fur around the paws ...and the fur in between the pads


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Absolutely, I groom and trim my Chis before showing. Chis are supposed to be a natural breed, but that doesn't mean they should be messy. A non-groomed Chi is not gonna do as well in the ring. They should not be sculpted but they should have the basics done at least, based on what's being shown in your area. We clean feet, from pads up to hocks, short nails, clean underbelly, pants de-bumped (nothing sticking out, all going down), clean around rectum and base of tail, de-bump topline, enhance neck if needed, clean out ears lightly, clean off muzzle, etc. Our job is to highlight the dog for the few minutes the judge has to make his/her decision. They shouldn't be scruffy if you want them to be competetive.


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## FireFox (Jun 4, 2009)

Yes I totally understand trimming of parts which are sticking out of somewhere, but to take of the full length of the hair growing from chis ears, that's what I don't really get and that's what they do there.
It makes them look like puppy's again  Well I am no expert, but I have never seen this here in the ring. 

Yes cleaning ears, eyes, teeth, cutting nails, clearing pads, cleaning the bottoms and so on - that's fine and we do that all the time anyway, show or no show.

Thanks for your opinions


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## omguthrie (Oct 13, 2009)

Hey Lisa,

Do you happen to have any pictures of one of your dogs before and after show grooming? I'm just curious.

Thanks!


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

omguthrie said:


> Hey Lisa,
> 
> Do you happen to have any pictures of one of your dogs before and after show grooming? I'm just curious.
> 
> Thanks!


I'll work on that for ya. Got shows this week-end so have to get ready for that. I'll try to remember to take before and after pics.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Lisa, just curious, what does it mean to "de-bump" a topline? And also ... how do you enhance one's neck? 

Thanks for that list, it was very informative


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

In the uk we don't trim our chi's (only feet and pads) we did have one japanese entry this year at crufts that was trimmed and it didn't look quite so glamorous next to the other chi's


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## FireFox (Jun 4, 2009)

LiMarChis said:


> I'll work on that for ya. Got shows this week-end so have to get ready for that. I'll try to remember to take before and after pics.


That would be wonderful, thank you


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> Lisa, just curious, what does it mean to "de-bump" a topline? And also ... how do you enhance one's neck?
> 
> Thanks for that list, it was very informative


Sometimes they have a wave or piece of hair that curls up off the topline that just sticks up. That's a "bump" that has to be corrected. Not at the shoulders though, cause that hair has to be left alone or it butchers the groom. Hard to describe without pictures or hands on. 

Necks are sometimes lost in the ruff. There are times one has to use thinning shears and some V formations going down under the chin to take a little hair out to show they have a neck. Of course, sometimes they just don't have one and it's an illusion created by grooming. Chis are supposed to have a neck and some nice arch. If the ruff isn't properly done, it looks like their head is sitting on their shoulders.

My remodel is almost done. The new computer is installed and almost loaded with the proper software. I'll get back to working on pics and things for you guys. I haven't groomed Bubba in a while and he's a great one for demos. I'll for sure take pics of Ripper tomorrow. He doesn't have a lot of coat but just the trimming makes a big difference. Well, to us show people it does. Hopefully, ya'll will see the difference too. You really should NOT be able to tell they are groomed. It's supposed to look natural. However, if you have the eye, and of course, me telling you what I've done, you should be able to see the difference.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

LiMarChis said:


> Sometimes they have a wave or piece of hair that curls up off the topline that just sticks up. That's a "bump" that has to be corrected. Not at the shoulders though, cause that hair has to be left alone or it butchers the groom. Hard to describe without pictures or hands on.
> 
> Necks are sometimes lost in the ruff. There are times one has to use thinning shears and some V formations going down under the chin to take a little hair out to show they have a neck. Of course, sometimes they just don't have one and it's an illusion created by grooming. Chis are supposed to have a neck and some nice arch. If the ruff isn't properly done, it looks like their head is sitting on their shoulders.
> 
> My remodel is almost done. The new computer is installed and almost loaded with the proper software. I'll get back to working on pics and things for you guys. I haven't groomed Bubba in a while and he's a great one for demos. I'll for sure take pics of Ripper tomorrow. He doesn't have a lot of coat but just the trimming makes a big difference. Well, to us show people it does. Hopefully, ya'll will see the difference too. You really should NOT be able to tell they are groomed. It's supposed to look natural. However, if you have the eye, and of course, me telling you what I've done, you should be able to see the difference.


Thanks  We always love to see pictures, but your explanations are good too! Ripper...love the name.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I asked about the topline thing b'c Bryco's coat is starting to come in, and its longer near the neck nape, and looks like this:










But since he's a puppy I'm guessing I should leave it alone LOL. Its just funny cuz the fur makes the topline look like its not level, but its just fur.


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> I asked about the topline thing b'c Bryco's coat is starting to come in, and its longer near the neck nape, and looks like this:
> 
> But since he's a puppy I'm guessing I should leave it alone LOL. Its just funny cuz the fur makes the topline look like its not level, but its just fur.


Yep, that looks like he'll need some help when he's got coat. Nope, don't mess with it now....for quite some time, looks like. There's nothing in the pic that makes his topline look off. This is obviously a coat thing. It doesn't look anything like a structure issue. No worries. 

You should be getting him used to the rest of it though, taking off the whiskers, cleaning the pads of his feet and rounding the foot, cleaning the hocks, etc.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

LiMarChis said:


> Yep, that looks like he'll need some help when he's got coat. Nope, don't mess with it now....for quite some time, looks like. There's nothing in the pic that makes his topline look off. This is obviously a coat thing. It doesn't look anything like a structure issue. No worries.
> 
> You should be getting him used to the rest of it though, taking off the whiskers, cleaning the pads of his feet and rounding the foot, cleaning the hocks, etc.


I've read different things about whiskers -- is taking them off pretty standard? Do you just trim them close to the face with a small pair of scissors? He's only 5 months so his coat is JUST coming in, so I hope he gets an even amount of fluff all over but I'm sure we all hope that LOL. I tried blow drying the longer hair that's grown in "up" and that helped for about a day post bath but then it started laying down again. 

No worries if you can't answer right away I know you're busy! I guess I hadn't realized I probably would need to trim off his cute lil whiskers! He loves to be brushed and cleaned, though, lucky for me!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Kristi, when I did whiskers, I just took cuticle scizzors and put one finger under the upper lip to kind of pop them out and then trimmed them off at the base. If you just cut them off without popping them out first, he will be all stubbly. ha. You also need to remove the ones sticking out of his eyebrows and the side of his face and also under his chin. 

Lisa is right, it's good to get him used to that now. 

You can check out Sarah's post on the Wahl trimmer she got to do Daisy's pads. It worked like a charm!


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> Kristi, when I did whiskers, I just took cuticle scizzors and put one finger under the upper lip to kind of pop them out and then trimmed them off at the base. If you just cut them off without popping them out first, he will be all stubbly. ha. You also need to remove the ones sticking out of his eyebrows and the side of his face and also under his chin.
> 
> Lisa is right, it's good to get him used to that now.
> 
> You can check out Sarah's post on the Wahl trimmer she got to do Daisy's pads. It worked like a charm!


*makes a sad face and gets ready to say bye to his sweet little whiskers tonight!* 

I've trimmed his paws quite a few times already, when he was a baby I swear that was the only fur growing on his body LOL, so he's used to that. I've just been using a small trimmer that I clean up hubby's neck with between haircuts, but also just came across a Wahl similar to Sarah's one she used for $16 so I may get it, its specifically for trimming paws not human necks/sideburns LOL.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Tbh I'm quite shocked you guys trim there whiskers off, I don't see how altering you dog can do any good, surely it should win on its own merit. Dogs need there whiskers don't they?


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

I thought whiskers were there for them to sense stuff why are they trimmed off?? I think it use to be done here to make their eyes pop but it's really old school I don't know anyone who does that here!!

That paw trimmer rocks in the pics u can't see that all the fluff in-between the pads has totallyngonr but her little feet look so cute!!


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Daisydoo said:


> I thought whiskers were there for them to sense stuff why are they trimmed off?? I think it use to be done here to make their eyes pop but it's really old school I don't know anyone who does that here!!
> 
> That paw trimmer rocks in the pics u can't see that all the fluff in-between the pads has totallyngonr but her little feet look so cute!!


It seems like I've read they do it just to make the dog look cleaner...in 2 show books I have it talks about it. I just had kinda forgotten about it.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Reading all the posts - it seems that trimming is standard in the US but not in UK and Ireland?


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Aquarius said:


> Reading all the posts - it seems that trimming is standard in the US but not in UK and Ireland?


I emailed Brycos breeder to see if its the norm here in the midwest for chi's they've shown hundreds of dogs. I know its normal for many, many breeds in the US but I want to be sure before I chop them off, they are so cute!


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Aquarius said:


> Reading all the posts - it seems that trimming is standard in the US but not in UK and Ireland?


We only trim the feet here, I personally would rather my dog win on its own merit and not have to paint its nose or trim its whiskers. If you don't think your dogs good enough naturally then don't show it, no use in cheating your way threw (that's my personal opinion not trying to start a argument  )


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Yes you would want to be very sure - sometimes cutting hair can change the way it grows back


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Lou_lou said:


> We only trim the feet here, I personally would rather my dog win on its own merit and not have to paint its nose or trim its whiskers. If you don't think your dogs good enough naturally then don't show it, no use in cheating your way threw (that's my personal opinion not trying to start a argument  )


I think a dog should win on its own merit, of course. But I don't think something like trimming whiskers is cheating lol. You're not foolin' anyone if they're gone. They got gone somehow and I'll bet people assume scissors helped!

Painting noses is VERY common here, Bryco could benefit from it but I am not going to do it, because a) it is against the rules and therefor b) is cheating. 

Poodles get a crazy amount done to them but its just what you do. I guess I view it similarly...there are just certain things you do for each specific breed, trim its paws, possibly cut its whiskers, etc.

My gosh, one of the nuttiest breeds IMO are golden retrievers. have you EVER seen a golden look the way it looks in the ring outside of it? No way! Not for more than 5 minutes, LOL. But if you didn't do those things prior to show, you certainly wouldn't win. You're not changing the dog's merit, just showing it for what it is.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

The cheating comment was ment for the painting noses but cutting whiskers is unnatural. dogs need there whiskers they are part of there senses and I'm pretty sure cutting them off is altering them so there for is against the rules? The reason I got into showing chis is because they are a un prodded and poked breed,they don't need poofing up and dying. Well at least here they don't need that.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Lou_lou said:


> The cheating comment was ment for the painting noses but cutting whiskers is unnatural. dogs need there whiskers they are part of there senses and I'm pretty sure cutting them off is altering them so there for is against the rules? The reason I got into showing chis is because they are a un prodded and poked breed,they don't need poofing up and dying. Well at least here they don't need that.


Idk, it obviously must not be considered "altering" because it's done and frequently...and its not like you're fooling anyone. Either whiskers are there or they're not...? Hmm.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Just was looking through breed standards for AKC, many comment on the desired state of whiskers, some should be trimmed, some shouldn't, some can be but its not preferred, etc. 

Go figure...it says nothing about the chihuahua and its whiskers.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

If it doesn't say anything then surely as a dog it should have whiskers? And if they are ment to be removed then it would say. What does it say in the AKC rules about altering exhibits?


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Lou_lou said:


> If it doesn't say anything then surely as a dog it should have whiskers? And if they are ment to be removed then it would say. What does it say in the AKC rules about altering exhibits?


You're not supposed to alter a dog in anyway, but whiskers are considered a grooming element, I am pretty sure.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

I will ask some more experienced exhibitors and see what they say (where is denise when u need her knowledge lol), there must be a reason why we have stopped doing it.


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## Jerry'sMom (May 5, 2009)

"Whiskers may be trimmed, but it is not required. Some trimming for
neatness may be performed on both varieties; it should not appear radical, 
but of course, will have no effect on structure." The Chihuahua Club of 
American CCA ILLUSTRATED STANDARD for the CHIHUAHUA.
http://www.prouxchihuahuas.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/IllustratedStandard.pdf


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## *Chloe* (Feb 6, 2006)

Lou_lou said:


> Tbh I'm quite shocked you guys trim there whiskers off, I don't see how altering you dog can do any good, surely it should win on its own merit. Dogs need there whiskers don't they?


i was suprised at this too, i havent noticed seeing chis in the ring here with no whiskers... i thought dogs needed whiskers to sense surroundings, width etc .... just different show etiquette i guess


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I just got an e-mail back from Bryco's breeder. He said he always, always trims whiskers, and everyone else he's ever come across does too, so I guess it must be a US thing. I asked if he thought it inhibited the dog and he said no, and he does let them grow out if they are not showing, but that it really didn't seem to bother them or harm them else he wouldn't do it.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Now I wonder if we flew over to the us to show our dogs whether we'd trim whiskers I personally wouldn't!! It's amazing how things are different here to te us but then we view lc and sc as different breeds when registering them!!

I love whiskers I think they're so cute.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Daisydoo said:


> Now I wonder if we flew over to the us to show our dogs whether we'd trim whiskers I personally wouldn't!! It's amazing how things are different here to te us but then we view lc and sc as different breeds when registering them!!
> 
> I love whiskers I think they're so cute.


I like whiskers I can't see the benefit of cutting them off. A show dog is in the ring 2% of its life and is a pet for the rest. Why would u take away one of its senses that it would use 98% of the time? The type over here differs so much from the US type no wonder its so easy to make a champion over there. Seems most people dye faults and hack into toplines. If u judge can't tell a good top line when he puts his hands on the dog then there not very good judges.


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> I like whiskers I can't see the benefit of cutting them off. A show dog is in the ring 2% of its life and is a pet for the rest. Why would u take away one of its senses that it would use 98% of the time? The type over here differs so much from the US type no wonder its so easy to make a champion over there. Seems most people dye faults and hack into toplines. If u judge can't tell a good top line when he puts his hands on the dog then there not very good judges.


Dogs are *not* cats. They do not use their whiskers as an extra sense. The whiskers do not affect the dog one way or the other. They can, and are, safely removed with no ill effects to the dog. It's totally a neatness of appearence and to better showcase the face and expression. Anyone can chose to leave the whiskers if they want. 

We are not all using dye and hacking at toplines. However, we do try to present the dog to it's fullest potential for the few minutes they are in the ring. Yes, the judge does put his hands on the topline to feel it for correctness. However, that doesn't mean that the visual he/she gets when the dog is going around the ring isn't important. Lots of newbies have the same "thoughts" about trimming when they first start showing. As they gain experience and knowledge, they develop the skills they need to showcase their dog....and that involves some grooming. 

Everyone makes their own decisions on how they want to prepare and show their dogs. Basic grooming is not altering the dog and is NOT illegal. None of the things I discussed are against the rules, nor would I do anything that was. I don't use dye or colors or surgery or any other method of "altering" a dog. Just because we chose to show off the dog to it's best advantage doesn't mean we are cheating or harming the dog.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Lou_lou said:


> I like whiskers I can't see the benefit of cutting them off. A show dog is in the ring 2% of its life and is a pet for the rest. Why would u take away one of its senses that it would use 98% of the time? The type over here differs so much from the US type no wonder its so easy to make a champion over there. Seems most people dye faults and hack into toplines. If u judge can't tell a good top line when he puts his hands on the dog then there not very good judges.


Your comment suggests your dogs in the UK are superior just because you don't ever take a pair of scissors to them. I don't know a single person that dyes their dogs and the judges do feel the top line---if a hair or tuft of hair is sticking up, why not groom it so its not detracting from the dog's visible structure? We aren't trying to change the dog, its just certain things are done here to groom the dog prior to a show and that's the way it is.

I would suggest maybe just accepting that things are done differently rather than insulting a slightly different show culture. It is what it is.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Grooming is obviously different in our country to yours. 

Lous at work so can't respond but asked me to pate these for you!! Whilst there's no harm to a dog in trimming whiskers they do have a purpose it seems. 

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/structure-and-function-of-the-whiskers-in-dogs/page1.aspx

Anyway it's gone totally off topic I think it's obv v different here to the us not sure about the rest of Europe


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

In the UK we aren't supposed to trim anything with the exception that the pads may be trimmed. Anything else shouldn't really be touched, I trousers etc are trimmed then obviously they have too much coat WHICH the breed standard asks for feathering atound the ears, trousers and neck. I have only had one judge in 30 years suggest that the whiskers are trimmed off in future. Personally I don't see what the benefits are in trimming them off. Colouring of coats or noses are strictly forbidden and against KC regulations. 
BTW whiskers on dogs ARE used for sensing the same as a cats use theirs


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Different rules, different clubs and countries - so just be sure that you follow your clubs/country's rules. 

Thanks to Lisa and to Denise for telling us the grooming standard for each 

I have watched shows from both and they are all gorgeous


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

Trimming is probably preference rather than regs though - it I likely that if you have to trim the coat or thin it out, the dog has an incorrect coat.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

jesshan said:


> Trimming is probably preference rather than regs though - it I likely that if you have to trim the coat or thin it out, the dog has an incorrect coat.


That's a good point! If you trim the dog and it makes champion and evey one wants to use it at stud then you will end up passing on its lines with incorrect coats. Just like painting noses(not accusing anyone of painting noses gah!) Its how the standard slips.
I think im going to start putting a disclaimer at the end of my posts so no one gets offended


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

'without prejudice' huh lol


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Some less than desirable insinuations have been made on this thread - just a warning that no more will be tolerated.

Have respect for each countries way of doing things please.


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## FireFox (Jun 4, 2009)

Thank you all for sharing all the information 
It definitely shows that there are different rules in every side of the world, and it's god to know all that!


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## Natti (Jun 24, 2010)

Its so interesting to see how different things are in the US - From what I've seen the UK judges are nowhere near as strict with weights, but far far stricter with the grooming and any altering of the coat. 

A few days ago there was a SC chi in the ring at a fun show who'd has his whiskers clipped off, and it really did look good on the dog, but the judge informed them that they'd have been thrown out the ring if it were an open show because it was against their standard! I guess its all down to where you live and what the judges like!


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Natti said:


> I guess its all down to where you live and what the judges like!


Exactly! 

and I just have to add that Ripper won at the Specialty today..with* no *whiskers. lol


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

Natti said:


> Its so interesting to see how different things are in the US - From what I've seen the UK judges are nowhere near as strict with weights, but far far stricter with the grooming and any altering of the coat.
> 
> A few days ago there was a SC chi in the ring at a fun show who'd has his whiskers clipped off, and it really did look good on the dog, but the judge informed them that they'd have been thrown out the ring if it were an open show because it was against their standard! I guess its all down to where you live and what the judges like!


A dog which looks over sized probably would just be inplaced in the UK however the scales would be brought in in some other countries.

With regards to the judge who said about the whiskers being off - I don't think they could actually not place a dog because of having no whiskers because it isn't a fault. Was it a champ show judge do you know

I have to say that all the years I have been judging I can't say I've even noticed any dogs whiskers being there or not - even when I judged the speciality in Sweden


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

LiMarChis said:


> Exactly!
> 
> and I just have to add that Ripper won at the Specialty today..with* no *whiskers. lol


Well done on Rippers major (I presume) good luck in his next few show!!! I hope he won on his conformation, movement and type and not just cos he didn't have whiskers ;o)
(joke btw not having a dig)


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Thanks to everyone on the congrats. Ripper showed well the first couple days. By day three, he was bored and tired from all the travel. Judge asked him to wake up on the table. Geesh! LOL Saturday was Reserve Winners and Sunday he didn't make it out of the classes with his Second. However, I had a great time catching up with friends so even Sunday was a good day. 

Here's his pictures. This was hard to do with one person so they aren't the best but you get the general idea. He really doesn't enjoy the table so you'll have to go to the last picture to see his true personality. When you do, you'll see that when he's on, he's ON! He is a perpetual puppy so it's taking longer to finish him. We'll get there eventually. Meanwhile, I just love him to pieces. He's one that clicked with me from birth. He's a heart dog so I always forgive him his little "pouts". lol

http://s749.photobucket.com/albums/xx132/LiMarChis/Grooming/


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## Natti (Jun 24, 2010)

Just a quick note - The judge who told off the SCs owner only did open show judging, he didnt know the breed too well. He's more a chinese crested man!


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## Natti (Jun 24, 2010)

Awww and Ripper looks lovely! I can see the difference that a little trimming can make. I still personally wouldnt do it, but then Maisie naturally has a lovely neat coat so no need to with her!


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