# Fleas? And "the runs"? (TMI.. warning)



## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

This may be TMI ... just a warning in advance! LOL. 

Anyways ... Roxy had "the runs" yesterday afternoon. I literally had to wipe her butt like a little baby, it was that disgusting. So, after I wiped her, I checked again to make sure she was clean, because I do not need poo all over the place! Ew! ukeright: When I checked again, I noticed a little bug crawling on her lower abdomen. I don't know if it was a flea or not ... but I tried getting it. I've heard you can't even see fleas. But, I'm not sure how true that is.

She has not been scratching and I literally have checked her 20 times over last night and 20 more times over today. I have yet to find anything else. I'm in the process of washing my sheets, her bedding and blankets, vacuuming, etc. I'm giving her a bath tomorrow. I even went out and bought Frontline (FOR $63 mind you! ah!) because I'm paranoid. I DO NOT WANT FLEAS.

So, do you think it could possibly be fleas, or in the beginning stages of fleas? I'm really nervous, but like I said, she has not been itching at all, and I haven't seen any more. Maybe it was just a random bug. Should I proceed and give her the Frontline? Is Frontline safe enough?

Also, she had a little bit of "the runs" again today. What could be causing this? She's been eating normally, drinking normally, etc.

Any input would be appreciated!


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## bayoumah (Nov 30, 2010)

hi so sorry roxy has the runs seems like around that age my buster was cutting lots of teeth and had the runs id hold off on anything till his bm is normal


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

Just took her out this morning... It's 9:30am here. She has the runs again! I'm getting worried.


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## CHITheresa (Apr 30, 2011)

It is flea season, if you live where it gets cold the flea want to be warm. I have two inside cats and they both have fleas, must have came in on our clothes or shoes, Amberleah fine she had her revolution. Some animals can be allergic, and cause diarrhea. Also look for black spec look like dirt, that is their waste...


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## mooberry (Jan 31, 2011)

Alright it sounds like she had a flea, go buy a flea comb and go over her. That should remove any eggs and allow you to see if you have a flea problem. I wouldn't NOT apply the frontline when she's feeling off.

Next, cook up some white rice and boil some chicken. Give her this bland diet and nothing else for 2 days or until she has solid poo's again for 24 hours.

Next water water water/ pedialite. Depending on her weight. If roxy is bellow 3 lbs I would buy some pedialite to make sure she doesn't lose any crucial electrolytes. Also make sure she drinks a lot. When it comes to the runs water loss is your #1 concern. 

If it lasts more than 5 days (this may be different for everyone) or she become lethargic then my suggestion is the vet for her. Also if you see any blood in my mind the vet again, could be nothing but the fact that she's always going but if you see blood and listless I would get her to a vet asap that is the symptoms of Hemorrhagic Gastroenteritis seen in this http://www.chihuahua-people.com/chi...morrhagic-gastroenteritis-have-you-heard.html thread. I'm not trying to scare you or anything but it seems to be very quick and I just think you should be aware of everything.

Let us know how she does, hopefully everyone else will chip in with advice.


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

I hope Roxy is okay! Lion suffered from a really bad bout of the runs when he was younger, we had to get some antibiotics from the vet to sort it out. If you are really concerned, I would call your vet and ask their opinion.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

If that 'bug' was white and wiggly, she has tape worms. Bring a stool sample over to the vet and ask them to run it. Some fleas carry worm eggs. Better be safe than sorry. Sue


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

It was not white and wiggly. Thank goodness. I will try the bland diet for the next two days. If not better, I'll be taking her to the vet for sure! Thanks everyone. Anyone else that has ideas, please let me know!


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

There is NO blood in her diarrhea. Should I be worried yet? I'm getting nervous, because I don't want to wait too long to take her to the vet. But, I also don't want to take her to the vet for them to just tell me to feed her a bland diet, or that it will pass in a few days. I don't want to jump to conclusions.

It's possible for a dog to just be feeling under the weather, right? She's acting normal, happy, excited, running around, etc. She doesn't seem lethargic or anything. I have two more classes for the day. It's 12:45pm here. I'll be done at 3:45pm. She has lots of time to rest and relax while I'm at class. Then, I'm going straight to the store.

I just hate this because she's so small. If it were one of my big dogs, I wouldn't be as worried.


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## mooberry (Jan 31, 2011)

Yes it very possible for it to be just a small bug everyone gets the runs now and then. 

I would only be concerned about blood if it is copious and followed by a very listless dog. Dog colons are much more sensitive than ours and a bit of irritation can do it sometimes. I wouldn't be too worried about it, it doesn't sound too bad right now.

Just feed her some bland diet to help bind her up and make sure she has water and she should be fine. If it was Bijoux that is what I would do for her as well.


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

Thank you so much for your help. What kind of rice and chicken should I get?


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

rms3402 said:


> Thank you so much for your help. What kind of rice and chicken should I get?


I would just get white or brown rice and and chicken breast... Boil the chicken breast as that gets rid of the fat. You can also add a little canned pumpkin (not the pie filling, just plain pumpkin). I have not ever had to use pumpkin, but I hear it works well for firming them up.


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

Cooking white rice and boiling her chicken right now. I'm going to give her some pedialyte soon too! Probably pumpkin for a snack tonight. I'll update! Thanks for all your help!  I dont know what I'd do without you all!


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

Hope she is feeling better soon! I think the fact that shes still happy and active and acting like herself means its just fine to wait on the vet. If she starts acting more sleepy/lethargic/depressed or symptoms get much worse Id take her in.

In my experience, if you think you saw a flea, then you probably did! Especially since you said you tried to get it, but couldnt. They are very evasive and when you try to grab them have a real knack for disappearing into your pups fur. Flea comb is a great suggestion, often they dont act itchy at all and she may have just picked on up. I know there are a number of topical flea treatments that vets are seeing flea resistance in, I think that frontline is one of them That may not be enough to take care of it, definitely check her with a flea comb so you can rule that problem out. Theyre often on the chest/neck and around the hind legs when Ive seen them, but check her whole coat.

Hope Roxis runs clear up soon! You can also do boiled hamburger and plain yogurt for her.


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## Lollipopsmama (Oct 17, 2011)

Fleas can cause worms, I'd give her a good once over, a flea bath and use the front line.
If the runs persist see your vet.


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

We had a better stool this morning!!! Pretty solid! :dance: So, I'm definitely happy about that! I tried giving her pumpkin as a little snack last night ... that was a no go. She was not feeling that! I gave her more chicken and rice this morning. She loves the chicken, obviously. I think the rice is a little hard for her to eat. She eats some of it while she's trying to pick out the chicken, but when she gets just a mouthful of rice, she just opens her mouth and drops it on my floor. HAHAHA.  But, I'll keep feeding her this chicken and rice for today and see how her stools go for the rest of the day today and tomorrow.

Bad news though ... :foxes15: ... I think she definitely has fleas.  I noticed a few more black specs and I definitely saw a flea near her neck. I tried to get it, but it definitely just disappeared into her fur. She's so dark, so it's hard to find them. But, this one was in her white fur!

So ... do I bathe her and then give her the frontline? I know it was said that frontline may be one that may be flea resistant now ... but I bought it. So, I might as well use it, as long as it's okay to use. Should I bathe her in the regular dog shampoo I have, or should I use Dawn? I saw someone mentioned that on here before.


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## Tanna (Jan 29, 2009)

I would bath her with flea soap, but i'm not sure about the frontline that stuff can be lethal, how much does she weigh? Also they can get tape worms from the fleas, the fleas carry the worms and if they swallow the fleas they get tapes, you would need to take a stool sample to the vet to find out for sure. At least her stool is better. Good luck


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

She weighs about 5 pounds.


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

Some people say not to frontline for 2 days after a bath as the frontline needs the oils in the dogs coat to work correctly. However, when I see any signs of a flea I give a flea bath, dry & then apply frontline as well as vaccuum, wash bedding, etc. And it's always worked like a charm for us. 

I'm glad her tummy is on the mend though--phew!


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

Ok great! That's exactly what I'll do then. How much of a dose do you give? I got the smallest kind I could find.. For dogs under 22lbs.


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

You can usually tell how long she has had them by their size, the bigger the fleas, the longer theyve been there. If shes just picked them up recently I wouldnt be too worried about tapeworms, but they can easily get them from fleas. Is she on a monthly heartworm? Check the package, many of them protect against tapeworms anyway.
Im not sure about dosage, we use a different brand and its dogs under 10 lbs so I just give the full dose. Maybe give her half?
Glad her tummy is feeling better!


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

rms3402 said:


> Ok great! That's exactly what I'll do then. How much of a dose do you give? I got the smallest kind I could find.. For dogs under 22lbs.


I would give her half that dose... I have seen Frontline for small dogs under 10 lbs, maybe your store just didn't carry it?


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## cherper (May 8, 2009)

Aw i just saw this! Poor roxy 
I would call the vet and ask about the strength of that frontline. That stuff kinda scares me. I've never used anything for fleas since Leila was a young pup. Luckily we have never had any problems.
As far as what to wash her in, i don't know.
Heather what brand did you buy of flea bath? I know i read some bad stuff online a while back about the store brands of that stuff. I'd be cautious!!!


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

I'd give her half a dose. We usually get the xlg dog dose & split it up. (soooo much cheaper that way!!) One dose of "Up to 22lbs" is .67mL so I'd give her about .33mL.

Cheryl I can't remember which one it was & I'm out. As long as they don't ingest it, it isn't on their skin long enough to cause any issues. I certainly don't use it on a regular (or even semi-regular) basis...only when I see any fleas which is 1-2 times per year. I'm not a huge fan of frontline so I don't use that on a regular basis either. Hate pesticides as a rule. Nasty stuff!!! I have been trying to remember to spay the pups with a neem spray after their baths in the warmer months. That helps repell as well. I hate living near the woods...our area has had SO many houses w/infestations that take sometimes even years to get under control. It's quite ridiculous. We're very lucky really as we've never had more than a few fleas on 1 dog at a time but I am quite anal about being on top of it if I suspect anything. The thought of an infestation drives me mad. LOL


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

Okay! So I gave her half a dose. Didn't realize how SMALL of an amount that is! Geeze! I saw another little flea on her RIGHT before I gave her the dose. I couldn't get him. They disappear so fast its crazy. It's like they totally know you're coming for them! Makes me so frustrated! I just want them off of her!

So, I washed ALL of her bedding, even her leash and harnesses and collars that she's used lately. I washed all of my bedding, including the pillows in our living room, etc. I swept up all of the carpets. Luckily for me, our apartment is mostly wood and tile floors, except for the bedrooms. I'm even going to wash and dry the rugs I have in my bathroom. 

How often this week and next do I need to wash bedding and stuff? Does this frontline take effect like right away? Should the flea(s) that were on her already be dead? How often should I vacuum, etc?


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## mooberry (Jan 31, 2011)

With frontline they are supposed to die within 12 hours, but I would wait 24 then do another complete wash of everything.

After 24 hours I would take the comb to her to work on anything else still stuck in there. If after 3-4 days of treatment you still see fleas I'd buy a flea shampoo and give her a good long bath. If you do have to bath her watch around her eyes that's where they will run to.

urg.. i'm all itchy now after all these talks of fleas soooooo glad i'm in Canada we've had a good few frosts already so the little buggers bit the dust here.


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## Kaila (Nov 10, 2009)

rms3402 said:


> When I checked again, I noticed a little bug crawling on her lower abdomen. I don't know if it was a flea or not ... but I tried getting it. I've heard you can't even see fleas. But, I'm not sure how true that is.


You can definitely see fleas.. if you can catch them when they're traveling outside of their hiding places, which they really try not to do. If you suspect that she has fleas and she has the runs, it's possible that she could have intestinal parasites. When Teddy was a puppy, he didn't itch at all during all four times when he got fleas. I just found one or two on him. Each time he had fleas he got worms. (I know he got both tapeworms and roundworms at some point.) Only certain kind of worms are actually visible in the feces--the others can be detected with what I think is called a fecal float or centrifuge test, which a vet can perform. Worms can definitely cause the runs!

If you're unsure, you can pick up a fresh stool sample in a ziploc bag and bring it to your veterinarian to screen for intestinal parasites. That might put your mind at ease. I think it's usually $10 or so at my vet.

As far as Frontline goes, I was using Frontline when Teddy kept getting fleas. :neutral: Then again, I've heard that the fleas here in Florida are "immune" to Frontline or something. Either way, it wasn't working for us as he kept getting re-infested in spite of the fact that I was medicating him on time each month and with the proper dosage. I switched him to Comfortis which worked wonderfully. Haven't seen a flea since.

PS: Just to be extra careful, I bought a purple can of Raid for fleas at my grocery store and sprayed on my carpets and under furniture whenever we had fleas. I kept the windows open and we vacated the apartment (and took the dogs with us) for a few hours while the smell left the place. I never directly sprayed the dog's bedding/toys/etc. or our own bed--mostly the carpet and around the corners of the room.

However.. I've heard of a natural flea trap that I know has some truth in it. I used to have a nightlight in my bathroom and I found that it attracted bugs at night, causing the fleas to jump into the toilet and die. The actual remedy is a nightlight above a bowl filled with water and dish soap. The fleas are attracted by the light, jump into the water, are trapped by the soap, and drown. I found tons of fleas in my toilet for like three days straight so I assume this must work! It's free, so it couldn't hurt to try. 

Food & Family: A Natural Flea Trap


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## LostLakeLua (Sep 6, 2009)

I like the Natural Chemistry De-Flea shampoo. Using this, along with the bedding spray for the couches and carpet (everything else just went through the wash if it could fit) is the only way that Frontline works for us. I realize that sounds dumb; LOL; but IMO Frontline does no good if there's already a flea problem. It just *prevents* them. Since it doesn't kill all fleas instantly it's not uncommon to still find fleas on your pet. 
We had a flea issue not long ago where we just sprayed/washed everything in one room; bathed the dogs one by one with the shampoo (follow the directions and it works amazingly, the fleas just rinse right off) and put them in that room. While they were in there, we sprayed the rest of the carpet and couches... once that dried, we let the dogs out again and life went back to normal. After 2 days, I applied the Frontline and so far so good.... fleas have not come back yet. I used to not like using FL or any topical unless actually necessary but I found out the hard way of treating 'as needed'... doesn't work so well here lol. Until we get a good heavy snow, I'll probably keep using the FL as a preventative.


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

You all are seriously so great!

I got a flea comb today. It was actually kind of hard to use I thought! I was like ripping pieces of fur out! AH! But, oddly enough, she enjoyed the comb! LOL. I didn't find ANY eggs or fleas. Do you think they're probably all gone? I was going to rewash and dry everything again today, but I'm going to do it tomorrow. I think this is all a good sign! I hope so at least!

I contacted the vet by my school (I'm at college ... an hour away from home), so I really should know them up here anyways, just in case something happens. So, I contacted them through email and asked if I could bring in a stool sample, or if they need papers, or if Roxy has to be a patient already. Their reply:



"Thank you for the inquiry! We would be happy to see your dog, review any medical history, check a stool sample and to provide you with flea/tick + dewormer medication. This is also a great time to meet our wonderful staff and to become an established client of our hospital, in case an emergency should occur while you are away at school. We will be open tomorrow (Thursday 10/20/11) beginning at 8 AM until 7:30 PM. Please give us a call and we will be happy to schedule a convenient appointment for you". 

I thought that was super nice. They are actually a vet hospital too, so they are available in case an emergency occurs in the middle of the night. I would like to go meet them and talk to some of the staff. To be honest, she doesn't need to go to the vet right now though, so I don't want to pay for a stupid visit fee. Can I just take the stool sample and that be it? Is that okay?

Should I have my other vet send her papers over, just in case I ever need them? I'll only be here until May, but anything could happen. 

What would you do?


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## cherper (May 8, 2009)

hmm i would just ask my normal vet what you should do. Maybe they can make copies of her records and send them and maybe that would simplify things!? IDK Yeah I wouldn't want to have to pay for a vet visit either.


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

Is she on a heartworm preventative? Many of thank prevent tapeworms so check the package. Maybe just give them a call and say you'd like to bring in a stool sample if you need one done. They sound like a nice place, definitely worth requesting your other vet fax her records over so if you ever need to take her in there they have all her info. I would think they can do a stool sample without giving her an exam, although I'm sure they'd prefer to get her in. I think that email is definitely trying to get you to bring her in for an exam, but you may not have to.


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## Kaila (Nov 10, 2009)

Definitely make sure she's on heartworm preventative-- it's the one medication you should never skip out on or skip a dose. Some heartworm meds have low-dose dewormers in as well (ex. Iverhart has ivermectin in it) but this is sometimes only enough to prevent an infestation or prevent a new cycle of worms from hatching (if the dog is already infested). That's my understanding anyway.

When Teddy was dewormed, they told me that the dewormer would not cause him to overdose even though there was dewormer in his heartworm medication. Check with your vet though.

To be prepared, I would definitely have your current vet fax over her info. I also keep a folder with all the vet receipts and information plus a sheet I made myself that documents what medication Teddy received on what date and at what time. Then I put reminders in my phone for when he's due. But this paper is mostly so if something goes wrong or he needs to start a new medication, I'll know what he took and when.

As a college student myself, it's a good idea to get acquainted with a nearby vet so I would go for it if they seem trustworthy.

As for the actual visit.. My vet made me have one preliminary visit with a fee before he would treat Teddy, but after that a vet tech can do things themselves for a much lower price. I think a stool analysis is only $10 at my vet. Now that I'm a returning customer, I can come in and pay only for the stool analysis + cost of dewormer if they find worms.

PS: Just realized you're in Pittsburgh! I went to the University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg for 2 years before moving down here to FL.  I miss the cold weather now.


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