# Seizures and Phenobarbital and a Dental



## Nancy (Feb 4, 2009)

My almost 4 yr old chihuahua Jose has been having seizures for 2 yrs there abouts...they used to be 3 to 6 months apart but the last 3 were 2 weeks apart...So the vet thinks its almost time to place him on meds...She however thinks he is kinda young to be place on a drug he will have to take for the rest of his life...However she wants him to have a dental first .(.which he is scheduled for wed the 18th...one day after his 4th bday)...Because the med is very hard on their gums..I am worried about the affects of this drug on his little body...I am also worried about the anesthetic...I know that and chi's don't mix to well....My chi also has luxating patella in both his back legs...I think one is stage 3 the other stage 2...thats what I get for not getting my chi from a reputable breeder...oh and the reason for the dental is because his teeth are crowded and over lapping and not easy for me to clean with just a toothbrush..On a good note...he is the sweetest ..friendliest loveable chihuahua I've ever come across 
Just wondering if anyone else is dealing with these kinda health issues too ?


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## applewood (May 8, 2011)

I am not a veterinarian, and I am sure your vet knows best, but... your vet is a total idiot (sorry.. I've had pre-vet for 2 years, and I have 1 year to go before I am a certified veterinary nurse). I've been in this field since 1988..

.. your vet needs to do blood work to see what mg to put Jose on.. every two weeks? WOW. ...and the last thing to worry about here is a dental! Your vet has me angry.
Tell her, you want Jose on thyroxine. Blood work can be done every 6 months. 
I am going to look more in to this...


I preform the dentals, at my job. All surgeries, and being put under anesthesia can be risky, but as long as the blood work is cleared, everything usually runs smoothly.
Please keep me posted.


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## Nancy (Feb 4, 2009)

Umm he has had blood work done...she wanted a baseline to start him on the meds...and she said having his dental done now will kill 2 birds with one stone..as far as the blood work goes...So what are u saying is wrong with phenobarbital ? She said dogs have a good success rate with this drug..
Why are you saying the dental is not good either now...He is due for one...hasn't even had one and his teeth are at a level 3 not sure how many levels there are with regards to dentals?


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

I had Smoke on phenobarbital, he did quite well on it. I am not sure why Applewood came down on you so hard, it really wasn't called for. Since you had the blood work, go ahead and get the dental done because pheno does affect the gums. Does he have some retained baby teeth or just a really small mouth? Hope everything goes well for you and Jose. Please keep us updated.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I have to disagree with applewood on several counts .....

Jumping in and calling your vet an idiot was uncalled for. 

If Jose is having seizures more frequently, then yes - he does need to be on a seizure medication. Phenobarb is a tried and true medication that is effective and has been around for years. I wouldn't hesitate to put a dog on it.

Thyroxine is for low thyroid. I don't know why applewood suggested that. You could certainly look at his thyroid numbers (t3 and t4) when having bloodwork done, that's always a good idea to have a baseline, but I wouldn't just go in and ask my vet for it without having a thyroid test!

It certainly sounds to me like your vet is working to find the best possible solution to your little guys problems. Getting a clean mouth is very important. Doing bloodwork is certainly spot on. And recommending phenobarb is correct. 

Please keep us posted.


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## Nancy (Feb 4, 2009)

Thanks for the replies....I can't even find that drug online anyways she recommended...my vet wanted to check is thyroid as well because is about 1.5 to 2 pounds over weight and eats the exact same amount of food as my 4 pound chihuahua..and I have even cut back on his food and added a few more walks a week...
While searching for the drug applewood recommended I did read some very interesting causes for seizures in dogs and thyroid problems was one of them...Jose has always from the day I got him at 6 weeks old been alittle I'll say round in the stomach so the blood work is going to be interesting ..
And I will keep you posted.


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## Rocky (Jan 25, 2010)

Poor Jose . Hope your vet can find out what exactly is causing his seizures. Cant even guess what it must be like . I found something about Phenobarbitals on wikipedia. Here's the link:

Phenobarbital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I hope medicines are going to work and his dental is going well!


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## Angel1210 (Mar 14, 2011)

Sorry to hear about Jose. These guys are so little, it's difficult to see suffer in any way!! But, I had a mixed breed dog some years ago, (not a chi, a larger dog) and she ended up with seizures at about age 8 or 9. It was very frightening for both of us. My vet put her on phenobarbitol, also. I hated giving it to her, but her seizures became very infrequent, about 9-12 months apart. So, if it's of any consolation, it does help! My heart goes out to you!!


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

hope he gets sorted out


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## applewood (May 8, 2011)

*Wait everyone (oops)*

I think there was a misunderstanding...

When I read the first post, it sounded like your vet was 'waiting' to put Rocky on pheno.. thats how I read it. I got mad because it sounded like, after having seizures every two weeks, she wanted to do a dental first? 

I am going back to reread it.. it was early in the morning when I read it..

I apologize if I misread it.

...and yes, my mistake about the Thyroxine.. I was thinking about another one..

Sorry everyone.. misread it, and jumped the gun.

As far as calling her vet an idiot... I apologize, I thought the vet was worried about a dental and not the seizures


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## Nancy (Feb 4, 2009)

*Blood work results in*

All his blood work came back totally normal....so its on with the dental on the 18 th then the phenobarbital rollercoaster after that ...Seems I am more nervous about the dental than the seizures...maybe because I've been dealing with them for some time...plus my b/f has epilepsy as well...The vet did say I could do a CT scan if we really wanted to know what is the cause of the seizures but for several $1000 with the end being the same result ...I thought I would pass for the time being...As well my b/f has had plenty of CT's,MRI's other brain testing and only after 20 yrs of testing did something ever show up...
The vet did mention ..hydrocephalus as a possible cause...as well...but I see no other symptoms of this in Jose..I'm just siding with the fact we will prob not know what causes them for him...I don't want to worry about something that might never be found...


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I agree with you. I would just treat symptomatically instead of spending lots of $$ trying to find a cause. Be sure that you have him on a healthy diet as some cheaper foods have been linked to seizures because of the substandard ingredients, use of dyes, chemicals, etc.


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## Chihuahuasloveme (Jan 8, 2010)

Sorry to hear about joses seizures I hope the medication works for him! I'm
Also glad all his blood work came back normal


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

Good luck with him


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm sorry Jose's seizuers have increased Nancy.  I was going to suggest what Tracy did as well about keeping him on a decent diet. This may be why you're having a hard time getting weight off of him as well. Milo was overweight on EVO no matter how little I fed him. Switched to what we feed now & he lost 3lbs in no time flat. 

At any rate I'll be thinking of Jose on the 18th & hope the dental goes well. And of course I hope the seizures don't continue to be as often. Keep us posted!!


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## Nancy (Feb 4, 2009)

This is the food Jose and my other chi Lola have been on since forever

Amino Acids in Pet Food

I tired raw for about 5 days Jose ended up at the vets because the bones where causing him constipation..and he seems to be in some pain...I got scared after that and just went back to the now grain free food...I wanted to give it a go again but honestly I got to freaked...I have considered what Heather I think has her dogs on now...honest kitchen or something along those lines ?..but no one here sells it...I haven't checked that out tho since last summer...its possible I might beable to order it ...I researched pet food and wanted my dogs and cats on the best I could find...and stuck with this "now" or "go" brands here in Canada...


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

I've never heard of that food Nancy but it doesn't look too bad. Though I have heard of dogs who just don't thrive well on any kibble & need a dehydrated raw or raw food. You're right...we were feeding Honest Kitchen for a while back last fall but now we're doing more of a rotation (with out the Honest Kitchen--just don't care for the big poops it creates LOL) with prey model raw, Stella & Chewy's & ZiwiPeak. Another one that may be more popular where you are is Smack. I know someone from Canada had found this instead of Honest Kitchen & it's about equal in ingredients & quality. Just an idea...

I do remember the issue with Jose--some dogs just don't do well with a lot of bone so he'd just need a smaller amount if you were to give raw a try another time. Some dogs I've heard only have bone once or twice a week. My lot do OK with a higher percentage--thankfully they aren't sensitive one way or the other. 

Anyway, at any rate I hope he finds some relief from the seizures. Poor thing.


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