# Spoke too soon



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

I posted earlier how Toby was doing so well on the lamb ZP. Well, I spoke too soon. He's got very loose stools again. I think that the next step is to mix it with kibble. So tomorrow I am going to pick up a bag of Acana or Fromm from the specialty pet store to mix in. I'm at a loss, hopefully this works. 

Poor Toby. Poor me. 


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## intent2smile (Dec 4, 2011)

Oh Ashley,
I hope the kibble mixed with ZP works! I hope Toby gets back to "normal" soon. (Okay that was my best way to say I hope Toby's stools firm up soon but I was trying to do so in a polite way but I don't think it worked.)


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

Oh no! Poor Toby. I'm interested in what the outcome will be, as we're experiencing the same thing with half kibble half ziwi. I'm going to try one meal of kibble and the other just ziwi and see what happens. 


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## 4bsingreece (Apr 11, 2012)

Maybe it was just compassion stress for your final?! I hope he feels better fast! How did the exam go? 


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

4bsingreece said:


> Maybe it was just compassion stress for your final?! I hope he feels better fast! How did the exam go?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


But it's still going on? And he work up in the middle of the night to go. Not like him except when he's sick. 

Poor Toby. 


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## pigeonsheep (Nov 8, 2008)

so sorry ur goin thru this yet again!  i hope the kibbles help with the solidness


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## chaiteahuahua (Jul 2, 2012)

I didn't see the previous thread, but what about some plain canned pumpkin mixed in with his food?


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## Buildthemskywards (Jun 16, 2012)

Sounds like Mylo. I keep having the same problems so I can sympathise


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

chaiteahuahua said:


> I didn't see the previous thread, but what about some plain canned pumpkin mixed in with his food?


I tried it and it didn't work. This is an ongoing issue with him, unfortunately. 


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## princess_ella (Jun 4, 2005)

what about the probiotics?


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

princess_ella said:


> what about the probiotics?


He is still on them. 


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

My Sheltie couldn't have the lamb ZP he now has the Venison fish one.All is fine on this one.I always think lamb is fatty ?


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## woodard2009 (Aug 4, 2010)

chaiteahuahua said:


> I didn't see the previous thread, but what about some plain canned pumpkin mixed in with his food?


I was going to suggest the same thing. Mix a little pumpkin with the ZP. My wholistic vet gave me an herb called inflamese which helps reduce swelling of the stomach & bowels. Maybe you could look into finding something like this. Poor baby. Hope he gets better soon.


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## woodard2009 (Aug 4, 2010)

pupluv168 said:


> I tried it and it didn't work. This is an ongoing issue with him, unfortunately.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


I keep giving it until your sure he's stomach is calm.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

I feel your pain. I went through this with Chance. I thought we'd never get his tummy settled. He was diagnosed with IBD. My thoughts are with you. Hang in there. Hugs and kisses for dear little Toby. xxx


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Ash it sounds like he can't tolerate the ZP, it may just be too rich for Toby. I've had great success with Fromm for a couple years now, maybe you can try that? I'm sure your local boutique will have some samples to try. Also Acana is sold in trial sizes for like $3 so you can see which he likes better! Hope his stool firms up really fast!! Xox!


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

Zorana1125 said:


> Ash it sounds like he can't tolerate the ZP, it may just be too rich for Toby. I've had great success with Fromm for a couple years now, maybe you can try that? I'm sure your local boutique will have some samples to try. Also Acana is sold in trial sizes for like $3 so you can see which he likes better! Hope his stool firms up really fast!! Xox!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


That's what I think the issue is with Odie. If half kibble half ziwi doesn't work with Toby, just try kibble and see if his stools firm up. When I did this with Ode the first time, her diarrhea was gone in a day. 


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Yeah, I think I am just going to do straight kibble. On my way to the store now to find a kibble. I'm going to give the ZP to Rocky... My mom is thrilled- free food for a month for her chi, lol. 

I truly think it is too rich for him. He's always had a sensitive tummy (my grandmas husband gave him a tiny piece of steak and he was sick for days, and dietary change is difficult for him). And he did fine on the homecooked chicken and rice- but I can't keep him on that log term, it isn't a balanced diet. 

The pumpkin didn't work over the period of weeks I have it to him. The probiotics aren't working. I've tried two different meat sources. No parasites or bacterial issue. Only common denominator is the ZP. 


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Sounds just like my baby boy. Only thing that worked for him was Wellness Simple.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

At least we have lots of great kibble options available here though! Lola has tummy issues too, she does the best on duck formulas (free game bird Fromm) and I don't remember if it is go! Or now! But they make a grain free small breed kibble that she did great on too. Just FYI. Let us know wht you pick love! 


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

I bought him fromm game bird grain free. We will see how he does!


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Good luck! Keep us posted.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

pupluv168 said:


> I bought him fromm game bird grain free. We will see how he does!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


I hope he likes it! Bc Lola runs around squeaking her baby lamb chop at 6 am trying to wake us up to feed her Fromm!! It's so annoying!! Lol


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Start off very slowly. Mix in the pumpkin and probiotics. Lots of small meals (3-4) would be better than 2 big meals. Try it for a week before you change anything. In other words try it for at least a week before deciding its not working.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

susan davis said:


> Start off very slowly. Mix in the pumpkin and probiotics. Lots of small meals (3-4) would be better than 2 big meals. Try it for a week before you change anything. In other words try it for at least a week before deciding its not working.


Thanks, I was planning all of this but the more frequent, small meals. Makes sense though. I will give him 3 smaller meals per day. 


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## Star's Mama (Aug 15, 2012)

Sorry to hear that toby cant eat zp anymore. Poor baby and mom I hope you guys find the right food for him. Get well soon!


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

pupluv168 said:


> I bought him fromm game bird grain free. We will see how he does!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


Hope everything returns to normal! It sounds like he's exactly like Ode. I bet once he's eating just kibble he won't have any issues. We didn't even need to give any pumpkin or do a slow switch. It was 100% the ziwi. Too bad, because it's such a great food. 


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

KrystalLeigh said:


> Hope everything returns to normal! It sounds like he's exactly like Ode. I bet once he's eating just kibble he won't have any issues. We didn't even need to give any pumpkin or do a slow switch. It was 100% the ziwi. Too bad, because it's such a great food.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


It does sound the same as what he went through. It is a shame because it is such a great food. But I guess it's not so great for our babies. Rocky is doing great on it- my mom says he has never looked better! It really depends on the dog. I would still 100% recommend it to try- just because it is too rich for Toby doesn't mean it isn't an excellent food! 


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## princess_ella (Jun 4, 2005)

Ashley make sure the probiotics are dairy free some dogs cannot tolerate it and can cause the stools problems what is the brand


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## Kirby's mom (Apr 11, 2012)

Ashley,

2 of my chis are doing great on ziwipeak. My 3rd one used to be fine eating it and then she started having diarrhea, losing weight and fur. It was so stressful to see her like that. I put her on THK zeal, embark and some cooked meat. She is doing very well and is on her way to her usual self again. I think ziwipeak is too rich for her but my other chis have never looked better. Every dog is different. I hope you find the right food for Toby soon.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

We started Fromm today. I waited until after my final yesterday in case he got sick from it so I wouldn't be up all night with him right before a final. Now I have until Tuesday before my next final for him to hopefully adjust. He had 1/8 cup of Fromm mixed with some chicken and rice for both breakfast and dinner. And we had solid poo. Not that it means much, I've gotta give it at least a week to see how it works. Just wanted to provide an update!


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

How did Toby like the Fromm?


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Zorana1125 said:


> How did Toby like the Fromm?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


He really liked it!


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

pupluv168 said:


> He really liked it!


That's great news!! So happy he liked it!! 


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Zorana1125 said:


> That's great news!! So happy he liked it!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Yeah, I also like that it smells like food and not disgusting like most kibble. Like, it wasn't just a random nauseating scent lol. 


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## Jayda (Jun 15, 2012)

Hope Toby does better on the kibble. Good luck on your finals. I just got my grades submitted today. Yippeee.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Jayda said:


> Hope Toby does better on the kibble. Good luck on your finals. I just got my grades submitted today. Yippeee.


Thank you. I have another on Tuesday then on Thursday, then I'm done! We are one of the last law schools in the country to finish finals. And I won't know my grades until mid- January so quite a long wait, unfortunately. 

Since its so close to Christmas and my mom wants me home ASAP she paid for me and Toby to fly home!! So Toby will be going on an airplane for the first time. I told him if his neurotic chi cousin Rocky can do it he can too! 


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## Jayda (Jun 15, 2012)

How wonderful not to have to drive. It does seem very late for finals. When do you go back? Students are back on January 14th here. I have to go back the 4th.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Jayda said:


> How wonderful not to have to drive. It does seem very late for finals. When do you go back? Students are back on January 14th here. I have to go back the 4th.


We start back January 14. 

We started finals at the same time as the undergrad per university policy. However, unlike the undergrad we have two weeks of exams, making us run a week later. 

I'm so happy not to have to drive! By myself with Toby I can't drive straight through. So it's a nearly two day affair. And I am so physically and mentally exhausted from the finals I've had so far I can only imagine what I will feel like next week. She even got me a car service to take me to and from Charlotte (I have to go to Charlotte, the airport in Greensboro doesn't have any flights to my local airport). It will be much more relaxing- even though I have to go through security 4 days before Christmas with a dog! 

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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

So it's been a few days without any diarrhea. His stools haven't been firm (they are formed, but a tad mushy) and they are 3-4x a day, but that is to be expected when transitioning to kibble. But the gas is gone and he is definitely not as uncomfortable as he was!

He's slept through the night for the past three nights since we started Fromm, which is so nice for the both of us. Poor thing is exhausted. He was so uncomfortable before that I don't think he ever got good sleep. He slept all day yesterday and didn't even want to take a long walk- just potty breaks. Not like him. 

Hopefully in a few more days he will be completely back to normal. 

My question is this (it may be tmi, but so is this whole thread, lol): for those of you that feed kibble, how often do your dogs poo? I'm used to Toby going 1-2x a day on ZP so I just wanna know what to expect.

Thanks for all the support! I will continue to update this thread with his progress until he is 100% better!

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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

My dogs are fed kibble (NOW) and they go twice a day most of the time.


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

That's great that he's still improving! Yay! On all kibble days, Odie usually goes twice.


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## LostLakeLua (Sep 6, 2009)

My gang is on raw and they poop twice a day; but I feed them 4 meals now. Kahlua has a sensitive tummy too; her poops are always fine but I can tell when she's uncomfortable/gassy. She used to eat twice a day and I thought maybe it was just gastrointestinal discomfort from eating half a days portion at once. Since switching to feedings at 7am, 12pm, 4pm and 8pm they have done fine; but everyone poops once more during the day lol.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Hi love! So glad Toby is doing great on Fromm! My babies poop twice a day on Fromm!!


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Zorana1125 said:


> Hi love! So glad Toby is doing great on Fromm! My babies poop twice a day on Fromm!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Remember how you said Lola wakes you up for breakfast? Toby did that yesterday morning! He woke me up at 7 am when we went to bed at 3! And he ran straight to where I keep the food, sat down and waited expectantly. 


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

pupluv168 said:


> Remember how you said Lola wakes you up for breakfast? Toby did that yesterday morning! He woke me up at 7 am when we went to bed at 3! And he ran straight to where I keep the food, sat down and waited expectantly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


Omg how funny!! And all this time I thought it was the Stella and Chewy's!! Lol. Fromm is like doggy crack! Lol. 


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## lorrainelau (Dec 13, 2012)

I went through a similar incident with carter I don't suggest acana as it may be too rich. I think that was the reason for Carter's loose stools. Good luck!


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Zorana1125 said:


> Omg how funny!! And all this time I thought it was the Stella and Chewy's!! Lol. Fromm is like doggy crack! Lol.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Zorana, how much Fromm do you feed each of your dogs? What do they weigh? Just trying to compare. 


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Happy to read your sweet baby is doing better.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Thanks! So far so good!


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

pupluv168 said:


> Zorana, how much Fromm do you feed each of your dogs? What do they weigh? Just trying to compare.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


Lola and mojo split and very full 1/4 cup in am and pm, Leo gets almost 1/4 in am and pm since he's still a baby and super hyper. I'm trying to get mojo to lose a little weight. 
Lola- 4.7lbs
Mojo- 8 lbs
Leo- 4lbs
Since Toby just turned one, I would try slightly less than 1/4 cup twice daily. I have looked at the feeding recommendations in forever. I think initially they both (mojo and Lola) were gaining weight so I had to cut back a bit. 


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Update: Toby is doing very well!!! 

He eats 1/4 cup twice a day. Two solid poops a day, not gaining unneeded weight, full and satisfied, and he loves the Fromm. I'm so pleased- we are currently using the game bird recipe. I don't want to rock the boat right now but eventually I would like to rotate to the other grain free varieties. I'm just happy he isn't constantly sick anymore. Here's hoping it lasts!!!


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

pupluv168 said:


> Update: Toby is doing very well!!!
> 
> He eats 1/4 cup twice a day. Two solid poops a day, not gaining unneeded weight, full and satisfied, and he loves the Fromm. I'm so pleased- we are currently using the game bird recipe. I don't want to rock the boat right now but eventually I would like to rotate to the other grain free varieties. I'm just happy he isn't constantly sick anymore. Here's hoping it lasts!!!
> 
> ...


Great news! Yay Toby! Super excited for you guys, knew he would love it!


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## princess_ella (Jun 4, 2005)

pupluv168 said:


> Update: Toby is doing very well!!!
> 
> He eats 1/4 cup twice a day. Two solid poops a day, not gaining unneeded weight, full and satisfied, and he loves the Fromm. I'm so pleased- we are currently using the game bird recipe. I don't want to rock the boat right now but eventually I would like to rotate to the other grain free varieties. I'm just happy he isn't constantly sick anymore. Here's hoping it lasts!!!
> 
> ...


thats good I send you a message asking you how much chicken and rice did you add when making the switch i am trying to change foods on one of my girls cause it making her stools soft.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

princess_ella said:


> thats good I send you a message asking you how much chicken and rice did you add when making the switch i am trying to change foods on one of my girls cause it making her stools soft.


Didn't see the message. I didn't mix except for the first day. His stools were relatively normal almost immediately. Sorry, I know that isn't much help. 


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## princess_ella (Jun 4, 2005)

pupluv168 said:


> Didn't see the message. I didn't mix except for the first day. His stools were relatively normal almost immediately. Sorry, I know that isn't much help.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


how much did you mix for the first day?


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Two small pieces of chicken and about a 1/6 cup of rice. I don't have an exact amount I just estimated. 


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