# Discussion on puppy ads.....



## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

Seeing as though there have been conflicting opinions on advertising, instead of hijacking other threads perhaps it might be good to say which sites if any are respectable enough to advertise your kennels or puppies....

Lets keep it friendly though....


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

Thought there might have been a bit more input on this thread….

OK then, do you think it is permissible to advertise your litter via:

The Kennel Club Web site 
Your own web site
A Dog web site

Or do you think that breeders shouldn’t be using the internet to advertise their puppies at all?


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## Pinkchi (Nov 21, 2008)

i don't think its bad them advertising on the internet but it does make it alot harder to figure out the good from the bad. its easy enough to find breeders which i think is a good thing but it takes a bit of reading and research to determine a good or bad breeder. it would be really handy to have a list of good breeders on this forum somewhere but i saw the uk one had been removed?  i think finding good breeders is hard


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

I think it was removed because certain breeders didn’t like their information linked to this site. However if they have done a lot of winning, then you can find their details just by using a search engine on their affixes.

I have found in the past that some pet breeders use well known kennels to make their dogs sound better. You can see it on epupz many times over.

Yet some breeders think it is fine to advertise their kennels on say pedigreedogs.co.uk or champdogs.co.uk

Some “old” breeders think that the internet should not be used at all but my thinking is that more people are using the web therefore I say move with the times - give prospective owners a choice.


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## Kioana (Mar 1, 2005)

i think it's oh k becasue it's easier to find the breeder. you type in what your looking for and a list of breeders come up and you can pick and choose who you want.

Now for picking people to own your pups maybe a bit harder but there are was to get around that just don't ship. That way you'll always meet the new owner. -JMO


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## Pinkchi (Nov 21, 2008)

yea epupz & preloved are rife with 'breeders' admittedly not all on there will be bad but i bet most aren't legitimate as we'd like to think and alot more ads include the dreaded teacup word or super tiny for extra cash. but theres no guarentee those pups will be small or stay small. I've also seen large amounts of chi x pups advertised recently


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## joanne22 (Dec 31, 2008)

i really dont see a problem with advertising on the likes of epupz after all you go to the breeders house to look at the puppies if after you get there and you dont like the breeders ways of doing things you can just walk away i found all my dogs through epupz and still have regular contact with them after 3 yrs so made friends aswell my bulldogs breeder is an acredited breeder also and her dogs were all immaculate so no i dont see a problem


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## Chico's Mum (Sep 9, 2008)

I've posted this in the other thread so I coped it here too.  

I'm not a breeder. And I understand that there are bad breeders and good breeders. 

But this is the 21st century. If a breeder wants to sell her/him pups in the net. So What! 
What's the deferents. Because in the end they well call, Email, and go to there homes to get the pup. 
And in both the breeder well send them pics by email. 
It's all the same. 

How do you here about a breeder in the first place. Buy advertising thru the papers or when they go to Shows or asking there friends if they know someone who want a pup to give them there number. 

At least if there is a site. you can take a look at the Chi's and the parents and how there past mating teared out. And in the site there are info in them and also they write about them self. 

It's all about trust. Do you trust this breeder or not. In both you still think is this person a good or bad breeder is he/she scamming me or not. 
In all you still pay for the pup you want.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 28, 2008)

I got both of mine, full chi and chi x, from pets4homes. But as I was looking for pet quality healthy pups I didnt need to know more than they were bought up in a clean, well socialized environment. I imagine its different if you are looking for show/breeding purposes tho?


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

joanne22 said:


> i really dont see a problem with advertising on the likes of epupz after all you go to the breeders house to look at the puppies if after you get there and you dont like the breeders ways of doing things you can just walk away i found all my dogs through epupz and still have regular contact with them after 3 yrs so made friends aswell my bulldogs breeder is an acredited breeder also and her dogs were all immaculate so no i dont see a problem


I personally don't like epupz because it is full of "expert breeders" who IMO try to con people into thinking they know what they are on about - I am not saying ALL are bad on there but there are a lot of breeders who are doing it for the money only.

http://www.breedadog.com/ is run by pedigree pet foods and they are trying to keep the breeders as reputable as possible but there will always be some who sneak through under the radar.

Not all A/B can be trusted though - there is no one to actually police it which is why a lot of show breeders will not participate in it.

I bascially posted this thread to see which sites people thought were acceptable to advertise on.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

catz4m8z said:


> I got both of mine, full chi and chi x, from pets4homes. But as I was looking for pet quality healthy pups I didnt need to know more than they were bought up in a clean, well socialized environment. I imagine its different if you are looking for show/breeding purposes tho?


Not really, irrespective of whether you want a show, breeding or pet, you should still get a sound, healthy little puppy - any problems should be highlighted by the breeder.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

catz4m8z said:


> I got both of mine, full chi and chi x, from pets4homes. But as I was looking for pet quality healthy pups I didnt need to know more than they were bought up in a clean, well socialized environment. I imagine its different if you are looking for show/breeding purposes tho?


Not really, irrespective of whether you want a show, breeding or pet, you should still get a sound, healthy little puppy - any problems should be highlighted by the breeder.


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## Chico's Mum (Sep 9, 2008)

jesshan said:


> I am not saying ALL are bad on there but there are *a lot of breeders who are doing it for the money only.*


I never understood this. I'm not talking about you tho It's just that I heard this said so many times that I want to understand. 

If breeders don't want money. Than way sell the pups?  Just give it to people for free than. 

As far as I know all breeders sell there pup. And if the people want to show or use them for breeding to get the papers than it's even more expensive. 
They also sell the girls more money than the Male. Why? 

To me I see people who breed there animals are Business woman and men. And as every business there are money involved. 

I'm not trying to offend anyone I just don't understand whets the big deal.
If anyone can explain it to me please? I want to learn.


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## blairblue (Jan 25, 2009)

_I am not saying ALL are bad on there but there are a lot of breeders who are doing it for the money only._

Thats what I dont understand and espec as they dont show all your pups from your litters pups (breeders always say something for the ring for myslef thats why i breed) but then sell the other pups for £££ Tell me you dont make money jesshan i think you must :coolwink: especially as you have had a litter every year for the last 3 years.


i also stated that £200 was not a price i expected to pay 7 years later! but neither was £700 for a pet, I have now been offered from a lady who breeds/shows a pet male aged 1 for £300 so thank you ang I am so delighted!


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## Pinkchi (Nov 21, 2008)

I think most sites are fine to advertise on as the more you advertise on the more people will see your ad. And i'm sure people can tell a good ad from a scam, and if they can't i'm sure they will if they enquire. I personally don't have a problem with ads on sites, as long as you have your wits about you and don't take any risks like sending money etc then it should be fine. I know i will browse websites when i am able to look for my chi puppy (although of course i will look on here 1st)


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## guest185 (Oct 27, 2008)

Breeders (usually) breeder for the joy of it and their interest in improving lines of breeding - of course the outcome of breeding is a commodity which is there to be sold. 

Giving them away free, unless to friends and family _may_ raise a cause for concern if others see it as a free entry into breeding themselves (for money) or it might mean they end up going to unsuitable homes - NOT always - as I understand there are a lots of people who could and would want to give a puppy a wonderful home but may not have the money to do so (for the breed of their choice).

And in the same respect just because people are willing to spend a great deal of money doesn't mean they are genuinely going to provide a good home.

So I don't think breeders who do it for enjoyment should be expected to give them away or do it at a cut price - a lot of time effort and money goes into breeding and after covering initial costs it's only right them should have something to show for what they have produced and provided. - it's not like they can keep all their litters (even though in an ideal world, many wish they could!)

With regards to the internet debate - people are always going to have views of what is right and proper and what is wrong - it will never change.

Perhaps it should be the buyer’s responsibility to sift the good from the bad - if everyone were educated in purchasing puppies then it would not matter how anyone advertised.

Sadly - this can never fully be achieved and people will continue to blindly fund those who are churning pups out for cash. 

But it does not mean that honest breeders should not advertise in any way they choose if they know they are doing right and have nothing to hide.

It's a shame others will condemn them for doing so.

phew.

Anyways - I'm not a breeder so my views are constrained.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

well, I dont know, or care much, who you are bairblue, but the rest of people posting here have managed to keep it friendly, and not start over with all this ridiculous finger pointing.
So what If "jesshan" has had a litter each year for the past three years running, what's your point bringing that up???

SHe has many bitches, so one litter a year isnt that much.

Also, believe it or not, not all breeders make profit. Those who do it PROPERLY, like jesshan does i know, have LOTS of bills, vets bills, c-section possibly, puppy vacs and checks etc, food bills, supplies for whelping, beds, blankets, etc.
It ISNT cheap. and reputable breeders DONT make that much profit if anything, especially as a litter could be just one pup
Good on you getting a cheaper puppy, usully you get what you pay for, and who sells for what ISNT the issue here, so may i suggest if you cant keep to the point dont comment, we're not here for personal digs or slanging matches, and NONE of your post is relevant to the topic mentioned.

Getting back to topic, I intially came accross Jesshan BY googling show results, so that in itself prooves that way is a good way. For example, she has many excellent show results, BCC, CC's etc etc.

My bad experience was through a breeder off epupz, and most reputable breeders I know wouldnt go near epupz due to the number of irreputable breeders on there.

Word of mouth is good, but I dont see anything wrong with adverising your litter online, though personally now I tend to search the sites that charge people to advertise, whilst not a fail safe I do find there tend to be less scams and less irreputable breeders on these types of website.


as for the return of personal vendettas against ANYONE on here, I personally am sick of it all.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

Chico's Mum said:


> I never understood this. I'm not talking about you tho It's just that I heard this said so many times that I want to understand.
> 
> If breeders don't want money. Than way sell the pups?  Just give it to people for free than.
> 
> ...


Ok, I will try and explain it. When you initially buy a puppy to show/breed from it costs you money, just for instance say £1000. You then keep it and evetually have a litter - you go to a stud dog which can cost anything up to £600 at the minute. If you have a c-section (£400) and only 1 puppy you have lost a lot of money up to that point. You then raise that puppy, vaccinate it (£55) and KC register (£12). Where as a lot of people will sell puppies at 8 weeks old, I keep them for another month after that. You then keep the puppy to show and straight away you are a minimum of £2000 down, which doesn't take into consideration feeding or any vets bills which may arise.

Now I may have a litter with 3 in and sell all of them but I have also had a litter of 5 and kept 3 - I also have not bred from ANY of them.

I have also looked at a persons situation and sold them for £400-£500 (which I did with someone last year) 

I suppose what I am trying to say is that some people try to maximise profit by sellling unvaccinated, unregistered and at the earliest possible time.

I should say that I have a dog account which money goes into to pay for any vet bills etc. I also don't part with mine when they are too old to breed from or finished showing.


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## blairblue (Jan 25, 2009)

sorry for offence/offending it wasnt meant to come across as

the point i refer to was the reference made by jesshan 

"to breeders who breed for money"

i am aware that profit has to be made, somewhere and surely made if breeding and it has been pointed out in aspects that whelping can be costly buy why price chihuahuas so high surely prices must come down as they are if not the tpo but near top price ranges for dogs.
If breeders reduced prices the PUPPY FARMERS would not be clearing their profit.

I generally feel £700 + for puppies is way too much and will not made to think that breeders do not make a profit for themselves.

the puppy i am getting is from a very well known kennel "i can assure i am getting what i am paying for"

IWAC that comment was not needed thank you  
i am sure the breeder who contacted me through this site will respond to this post.

IWAC i feel my post replied to the relevent question been asked.
I apoligise if it read wrong


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

blairblue said:


> _I am not saying ALL are bad on there but there are a lot of breeders who are doing it for the money only._
> 
> Thats what I dont understand and espec as they dont show all your pups from your litters pups (breeders always say something for the ring for myslef thats why i breed) but then sell the other pups for £££ Tell me you dont make money jesshan i think you must :coolwink: especially as you have had a litter every year for the last 3 years.
> 
> ...


It did seem a bit agressive towards me! LOL but in answer to your question, I don't make money, no. I have had vet bills of £1200 the year before last. all my dogs stay with me to the end and are then individually cremated and returned to me. I will say that the dogs do pay for themselves (before anyone asks, no I haven't been on holiday since 2000 (a wedding present) and prior to that I can't honestly say I have been on holiday since 1986.

I may have had a litter each year for the past 3 years but I don't understand your point. I had a litter of 5 and kept 3 and not bred from ANY of them. Yes I sold the other 2 but I have also given away 3 puppies to friends and sold another for £500 - so out of 2 litters there I made £500 which I reckon would have been eaten up in just raising them for a few weeks.

I am pleased that you have managed to find a dog and would like to say that I was never trying to be funny with you but I did have to explain that I wasn't charging over the top because my messages to you were private and yours were put on the forum. The way you put it made it seem like I was charging over the top prices and I didn't want it to be seen that way.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

Some very good points Jacklovesmammy. 

Janie, thanks for sticking up for me. its nice to know that I do have some good friends. 

Unfortunately it has gone off topic and onto how many litters of puppies I have bred. Baring in mind I have being showing chihuahuas for 29 years I don't honestly think I have had THAT many litters. It is only recently that I am in a position where I work part time and have the facility to have more litters than I used to.


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## blairblue (Jan 25, 2009)

I did tell you your inbox was full & thats the reason on here. I have spoken to you jesshan over the telephone & your daughter & you were both very plesent thankyou.



I am still really upset over the last comments from iwac

I would never ever seek out individuals to victimise & certainly not being new here

thank you my pup will be a treasured part of my family.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

My point was that it is said that is NOT OK to advertise on epupz but it IS OK to advertise on http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk www.champdogs.co.uk or www.petplan.co.uk

Who determines which are OK to advertise on? Who says that these ones are OK but the others are not? 

(Don't have a go at me here, I just wanted to know what people feel seeing as the other thread got hijacked)


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

blairblue said:


> I did tell you your inbox was full & thats the reason on here. I have spoken to you jesshan over the telephone & your daughter & you were both very plesent thankyou.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think Janie is a bit defensive of me because I took the time to help her out when she was having problems with her AB. 

I do seem to get shot at because I try to actively participate in these sites and sometimes people don't like it because I call a spade a spade.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

well, if it wasnt meant aggressively then I obviously apologise, but it did appear to be agressive towards Jesshan.

It came accross as saying Jesshans pups are overpriced and you have got better from elsewhere.

As i say, if it wasnt meant that way then I am sorry.

I would be defensive against anyone on here that appeared to be getting attacked by someone else, we have seen it happen many times


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## Lyanne (Oct 29, 2008)

Hi Guys

I officially joined the site this week after reading threads and came to the decision it was a friendly site. I looked forward to getting good, sound advice from people who have been in this breed for many years and also looked forward to meeting new people with a common love of chis.

I have read this thread from start to finish and am now thinking was joining the right choice!!!

Where people advertise their puppies/dogs is a personal choice and should be respected for that. However I think the point that was being made is that some sites are well known for puppy farms and unfortunately the good breeders that advertise on them may be tarred with the same brush - I agree it is not fair!!!

I bought a puppy in July 08 from Jeeshan and don't feel the need to reveal what I paid other than it was a reasonable price for a KC reg puppy bitch, which had show potential. (There is a well known puppy farm in the area that was charging a lot more than Jeeshan,) I would have paid double the price if I had the forsight to see how much support and advice I was to get from the breeder, this has been invaluable. Along with nthe puppy came a solid friendship aswell. Like Janie I would automatically defend Jeeshan as I know personally the care and love the dogs get.

I am pleased this matter has been resolved and I look forward to having my faith restored by reading other helpful threads. I have only been in chis a very short period of time and realise I have lots left to learn. I hope to learn from you guys, that know what you are talking about.


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## Kioana (Mar 1, 2005)

jesshan said:


> My point was that it is said that is NOT OK to advertise on epupz but it IS OK to advertise on http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk www.champdogs.co.uk or www.petplan.co.uk
> 
> Who determines which are OK to advertise on? Who says that these ones are OK but the others are not?
> 
> (Don't have a go at me here, I just wanted to know what people feel seeing as the other thread got hijacked)


I'm in the US so i don't know thoes site but i feel that where ever the BREEDER wants to post their ads is oh k. Like someone said it's up to the new owner to wean out the scams and like wise for the breeder weaning out the crazy new owners.


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## pinkglitterybunny (Jul 26, 2008)

when we got our king charles, we went to a man that was 'new to breeding' he had kc reg all the pups and everything was in order, but I felt like he was very much in it to make a fast buck, I may be wrong but we were in and out of there quite quickly and also he reccomended some really cheap tin food to feed him on, We didnt want our lil guy to stud or to show just as a family pet, and i changed the food he was on right away  

Maybe its best to go on word of mouth for breeders? reccomendation maybe is the best way? but then i suppose the new breeders need a chance! i guess you just have to be very picky and careful.
xx


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## blairblue (Jan 25, 2009)

IWAC i am sorry i cant reply to your pm I have been trying for over 1 hour.
I understand your feelings & i wont go into detail but I also have no clue to previous happenings and to be honest not interested unless directed at me which you did. I have also re-read ALL my postings over & over and still feel hurt at your comments and really no need for you to be nasty to me,
jesshan am i well aware can take good hold of her own & I too call a spade a spade THEREFORE my answer as Qoute from jesshan would not touch epupz with a Barge pole she stated & that where I found her advert epupz as i already said. Need I say anymore? I did call her asap so that does show she gets reponse from epupz & as i already said was plesent & professional & i would have GLADLY taken up her offer but I dont have that kind of money (you dont know what income i have nor does anyone else)
I have no more justification on this topic/discussion and surely this is a discussion site? Although happy I posted on this site as ang would not have been in touch for me to have a gorgeous little fellow to be collected Saturday 31st who is worth every pound.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

fine, i tried to apologise if you cant accept it so be it.

As i said i would jump to the defence of anyone here.

Perhaps I replied in haste, but perhaps you could be more aware of how your posts come accross, it DID seem agressive

I dont have anymore to say


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2009)

blairblue said:


> _I am not saying ALL are bad on there but there are a lot of breeders who are doing it for the money only._
> 
> Thats what I dont understand and espec as they dont show all your pups from your litters pups (breeders always say something for the ring for myslef thats why i breed) but then sell the other pups for £££ Tell me you dont make money jesshan i think you must :coolwink: especially as you have had a litter every year for the last 3 years.
> 
> ...


 I'am pleased that you have your puppy......but i don't think you understand what show/breeders are all about........myself and jesshan only breed when we need a new pup to show it may be 1 litter a year or 2 but that does not mean we make money!!! some chi's can only have 1 or 2 pups in every litter and we may keep both i know i've done that at lot..................Most show/breeders and that includs jesshan will only breed from top quality dogs........ most of my pups are Champion sired........


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## Chico's Mum (Sep 9, 2008)

jesshan said:


> Ok, I will try and explain it. When you initially buy a puppy to show/breed from it costs you money, just for instance say £1000. You then keep it and evetually have a litter - you go to a stud dog which can cost anything up to £600 at the minute. If you have a c-section (£400) and only 1 puppy you have lost a lot of money up to that point. You then raise that puppy, vaccinate it (£55) and KC register (£12). Where as a lot of people will sell puppies at 8 weeks old, I keep them for another month after that. You then keep the puppy to show and straight away you are a minimum of £2000 down, which doesn't take into consideration feeding or any vets bills which may arise.
> 
> Now I may have a litter with 3 in and sell all of them but I have also had a litter of 5 and kept 3 - I also have not bred from ANY of them.
> 
> ...


I had people explain this to me but still didn't make since to me. Tell now that is.  

Thanks jesshan.


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## ria (May 22, 2007)

I have mixed opionion on the web sites as I have been looking for a long time for a new pup for Chance. I have had bad experience but also good. I have now found the right one for Chance and I. it was on epupz. I have been to many viewings over the past 2 yrs since losing my boy Georgie. I have made mistakes and these were from qualified breeder. I also have had great satifaction, my Chance for one. I think word of mouth is really the best way because if owners are happy with thier dog they will rejoice in him or her. But there are a lot of people out there that rely on the internet as they are unable to get out on thier own and do not meet a lot of people. So as I have said mixed feelings. This is such a difficult issue I don,t think it could ever be resolved to everyone,s sattifaction.
I have meant no harm in anything I have written.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2009)

Your so right in what your saying it's very hard to get the right puppy these days.............But i find it very hard to get good forever homes for my little ones................Some people ring me and say i want a little girl got to be a girl as a pet............With full KC paper work not endorsed...........But waite for it may at a later stage have a litter from her.......But to me thats not a pet thats a girl to breed from and most of my little girls i let go as pets are to small
to breed from so as you can see it's not easy letting little ones go........


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## ria (May 22, 2007)

sunshine if you had been nearer to me you would have seen me, no doubt about it. I can see that is must be very difficult for you as you must love everyone of your babies. So yes its very hard on both sides. This is such a sad topic


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## Lyanne (Oct 29, 2008)

sunshine45 said:


> I'am pleased that you have your puppy......but i don't think you understand what show/breeders are all about........myself and jesshan only breed when we need a new pup to show it may be 1 litter a year or 2 but that does not mean we make money!!! some chi's can only have 1 or 2 pups in every litter and we may keep both i know i've done that at lot..................Most show/breeders and that includs jesshan will only breed from top quality dogs........ most of my pups are Champion sired........


Hi Blairblue - congratulations on your new addition to your family and I know that it will be a beautiful sound dog.

I just wanted to back up what Angie, Denise and other good show breeders have tried to say in as much as when they breed it truly is to better the breed. I have socialised with quite a few good show breeders and listened to what they have been through in the past and can honestly say it takes a strong person to breed. Not only the breeding but the after care that they pride themselves in and that is what gives them an 'excellent' reputation. It is only a shame there wasn't a website that was vetted so that they could advertise their puppies/dogs in safety and people wanting to buy this special breed could buy with confidence.


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## Pinkchi (Nov 21, 2008)

sunshine45 said:


> Your so right in what your saying it's very hard to get the right puppy these days.............But i find it very hard to get good forever homes for my little ones................Some people ring me and say i want a little girl got to be a girl as a pet............With full KC paper work not endorsed...........But waite for it may at a later stage have a litter from her.......But to me thats not a pet thats a girl to breed from and most of my little girls i let go as pets are to small
> to breed from so as you can see it's not easy letting little ones go........



Its good to see it from both ways. TBH i'd never thought about it from a breeders point of view. When I get my chi i want a girl but I would never dream of breeding from her. I guess it must be hard selling girls as even with a contract i guess there are no guarentees that the buyer will stick to it. Yes I would like a KC registered pedigree pup but at the end of the day all it is, is a name on a bit of paper. I think pedigree is more important than KC reg when getting a dog for a pet. I wousdn't say no to a KC reg pup but its not something i'd specifically look for. I would like a good pedigree pup, but as long as its been well cared for and not bred for money I wouldn't be to fussed. I think its vital that people visit puppies and ask the breeder lots of questions, that way you don't have to buy a puppy from an unknown background and if you don't like the conditions in which its been raised in or question the health of a puppy you have the freedom to say no. Hard as it may be, saying no may save heartache in the longrun.

This is a good thread for people, I feel iv'e learnt alot from it in terms of whats acceptable and what isnt and also what to look for in adds, I feel alot more clued up now so thanks Jesshan for starting this post


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## N*T*M*4U (Nov 10, 2008)

:daisy::daisy::daisy::daisy:



Chico's Mum said:


> I never understood this. I'm not talking about you tho It's just that I heard this said so many times that I want to understand.
> 
> If breeders don't want money. Than way sell the pups?  Just give it to people for free than.
> 
> ...


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## N*T*M*4U (Nov 10, 2008)

Kioana said:


> I'm in the US so i don't know thoes site but i feel that where ever the BREEDER wants to post their ads is oh k. Like someone said it's up to the new owner to wean out the scams and like wise for the breeder weaning out the crazy new owners.



I'm so agreed with you...I don't care where they breeder post their ads...If I find the one I like I'll buy.....


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2009)

ria said:


> sunshine if you had been nearer to me you would have seen me, no doubt about it. I can see that is must be very difficult for you as you must love everyone of your babies. So yes its very hard on both sides. This is such a sad topic


You can come and see my chis any day they love meeting new people


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2009)

Pinkchi said:


> Its good to see it from both ways. TBH i'd never thought about it from a breeders point of view. When I get my chi i want a girl but I would never dream of breeding from her. I guess it must be hard selling girls as even with a contract i guess there are no guarentees that the buyer will stick to it. Yes I would like a KC registered pedigree pup but at the end of the day all it is, is a name on a bit of paper. I think pedigree is more important than KC reg when getting a dog for a pet. I wousdn't say no to a KC reg pup but its not something i'd specifically look for. I would like a good pedigree pup, but as long as its been well cared for and not bred for money I wouldn't be to fussed. I think its vital that people visit puppies and ask the breeder lots of questions, that way you don't have to buy a puppy from an unknown background and if you don't like the conditions in which its been raised in or question the health of a puppy you have the freedom to say no. Hard as it may be, saying no may save heartache in the longrun.
> 
> This is a good thread for people, I feel iv'e learnt alot from it in terms of whats acceptable and what isnt and also what to look for in adds, I feel alot more clued up now so thanks Jesshan for starting this post


Thankyou for seeing our side


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## Pinkchi (Nov 21, 2008)

sunshine45 said:


> Thankyou for seeing our side


Its okay ya welcome 
Would just be pure ignorant not to
After all there are 2 sides to every story


I think if everyone imagines their chi baby having puppies and having to go through it all and then sell them maybe more people could understand where you guys are coming from. I just know I wouldn't be able to do it. The emotional attachment to them must be awful. I know 'hypothetically' if i was ever to have a bitch who had puppies (highly unlikely) that I would find it very difficult to sell them and trust the people i'd be selling to. There must be so many things running through your heads when people come to view, like so many questions and thoughts. I don't think we appreciate how hard it is on you guys. 
I found a poem which i hope is relevant http://www.keronella.co.uk/a-breeders-tale.php
I think its a beautiful poem


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## KayC (May 3, 2005)

I think that poem says it all. Thank you for posting that.


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

I think that the difference with what jesshan is doing is she is posting her info as a breeder out there on the epupz site which gets a lot of traffic. People who are serious can use that contact info if they are looking for breeders. It is very differnt that posting pictures of dogs in teacups and putting a price on their heads and letting just anyone purchase the dog from the interenet...very different.

I am not in the UK, but having breeder info out there where people can find it does help people who are looking to locate breeders. 

I would expect a breeder to charge a responsible price to cover medical expenses, vaccines, food, registration, etc. If the dog was available for very little money I would think maybe the breeder produces many litters to "break-even" or cover expenses and if they are churing out puppies like a factory, how well bred and socialized are they ? 

There are many people in US who buy dogs over the internet, have them shipped and whatever, because they are very little $$. I have looked at those ads. I think that if some of those sites had some breeders listed and not just puppy ad's maybe some people would make contact with responsible breeders instead. I think that what jesshan is doing can be very helpful to prospective dog owners.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

rubia said:


> I think that the difference with what jesshan is doing is she is posting her info as a breeder out there on the epupz site which gets a lot of traffic. People who are serious can use that contact info if they are looking for breeders. It is very differnt that posting pictures of dogs in teacups and putting a price on their heads and letting just anyone purchase the dog from the interenet...very different.
> 
> I am not in the UK, but having breeder info out there where people can find it does help people who are looking to locate breeders.
> 
> ...


Thank you, You hit the nail right on the head! It was the reason for me doing it.

It does have high internet traffic probably a lot more than my own site, so someone not knowing what they are actually looking for including the pit falls of owning chihuahuas may find at least a little bit of information about chihauhuas. The other thing is that epupz have a lot of domain names which all lead to epupz site.

There are so many advertisements which offer "show quality" puppies which (and I judge at championship show level) do not look show quality. I would feel really sorry for someone if they brought a dog which didn't reach anywhere near the breed standard under me. It is a very expensive hobby showing dogs. Average price is between £20 - £25 per dog per class - then all the travelling, accomodation etc to get to a show.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2009)

That poem is so true it made my cry just thinking of the little angels that never made it thankyou so much for posting it...........Angie


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## ria (May 22, 2007)

sunshine45 said:


> You can come and see my chis any day they love meeting new people


Hey thats great and you never know one day I just may travel to the midlands then maybe not you are a loooooooooooooooooooooong way from me. But I was happy with your invatation thankyou very much


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

In England people advertise on the web and they are trying to sell puppies or dogs that have been stolen or bred in puppy farms,i would not buy one over the web.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

I suppose that is a very good point Michele - so would you not buy from even ones who were being advertised on the KC web site or Petplan either.

There were a couple from Ireland who were stolen last year but I don't think they were sold on the internet but it makes you wonder if people buy them who are stolen 
The ones stolen from Ormestex were never recovered.


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## Pinkchi (Nov 21, 2008)

jesshan said:


> There were a couple from Ireland who were stolen last year but I don't think they were sold on the internet but it makes you wonder if people buy them who are stolen
> The ones stolen from Ormestex were never recovered.


Oh thats sad 
I know on preloved a few months ago, maybe longer there were several ads about 2 chihuahuas, i can't remember the exact story or what happened but i think the woman left them at a house of a stud and something happened to the woman or something so the man 'got rid' of them. I'm sure it was something like that...

I just can't believe people would be so desperate for money that they would steal someones dog, i think its awful 

Keep your babies close, i know i will when i get mine


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## sullysmum (Mar 6, 2004)

Pinkchi said:


> Oh thats sad
> I know on preloved a few months ago, maybe longer there were several ads about 2 chihuahuas, i can't remember the exact story or what happened but i think the woman left them at a house of a stud and something happened to the woman or something so the man 'got rid' of them. I'm sure it was something like that...
> 
> I just can't believe people would be so desperate for money that they would steal someones dog, i think its awful
> ...




That was my friend in Wales, she has never seen them since!


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

I think buying from the KC is safe,at least you know they are not from a puppy farm or Stolen,i got my Chi off the KC.I was told not to buy on web sites from a good breeder.There are nasty people out there !


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

GOOD BREEDERS DON'T HAVE TO ADVERTISE word of mouth is enough


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## Pinkchi (Nov 21, 2008)

sullysmum said:


> That was my friend in Wales, she has never seen them since!


Oh 
That must be the worst thing that could happen 
I bet she was devastated poor thing
I was hoping they got them back but evidently not


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

I remember that,they were lent for stud the woman or man died,then they were sold.NEVER FOUND AGAIN,the story was also put in the papers.


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## Kioana (Mar 1, 2005)

michele said:


> GOOD BREEDERS DON'T HAVE TO ADVERTISE word of mouth is enough


 
You know i always hear this but i've yet to find one from word of mouth! I always have to go to the internet to find good breeders and i have to travel for mine. Well i should say i can't find any here in maryland, i've asked around and i've always been told to look on the AKC site.

A friend that shows/breeds is always on the look out for a chi breeder when she goes to the shows , so far nothing yet!


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## Keeffer (Feb 26, 2008)

Hmm I think I would never buy from such websites. We don't have epupz but we do have some similar sites. And I must say I really don't like it. Most pups that are bought from those sites here in Holland die after 3 days. It is so sad.  Though some good breeders do advertise on the same websites these days too. We also have a website that is for puppies from breeders that breed with pedigree dogs and are a member of the breed club (so for us it would mean breeders who are member of the Dutch chihuahua club). I would buy from such a website, if they had a pretty puppy but almost no one knows that site hehe. 

I don't mind breeders advertising there pups on their own website. What's wrong with that? I found almost all the breeders I "know" via the internet. But last year I talked to a breeder, they were soooo new to me. But they do breed for a long time. So I googled their name, but couldn't find anything. I met the breeders at a fun day for chihuahua's.


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