# Debating on going raw...



## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

After all the posts and reading I've been doing, I'm starting to think that the raw diet may be the better route...I'm a little nervous tho I don't want to do anything wrong... I wish I would have been on here with Tia, maybe I could have found something that could have saved her I'm hoping I can give Bailey a long healthy happy life!


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## pigeonsheep (Nov 8, 2008)

personally i dont like raw, it didnt work for my dexter...he absolutely didnt want anything to do with it. i havent tried it on KC as she does well with her wellness core and her i and love and you and her nupro mix lol! some people do love doin raw dieting for their pups here so if you want you can get help from them :] get ready to peel off skin! :lol:


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Just start off slow. Bone in chicken or chunks of cornish hen with bone. Read and research over in the raw diet section of this forum. There's a yahoo group on raw feeding that is helpful, although they are a bit militant in their approach. But still good information. 

Some dogs do take to raw feeding right away. Some are harder. But eventually all dogs will learn. You just have to be patient.  

Raw is going mainstream. You can find raw diets in almost every pet supply store now. I try to avoid the ones with lots of veggies and plant matter and stick with the meat only ones. I prefer do it yourself raw, but you can stick a premade raw in your freezer and use if necessary. 

You can take the skin off in the beginning. But you will leave it on as you move forward as fat is essential. 

Most dogs do great on a raw diet. But each dog is different. You will become a student of your dog and what works for them. Some may require a bit more bone than others, etc. Just aim to keep the ratios at 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organ. Organs are added last. So for now just bony chicken pieces. 

Ask questions. We will help you.


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

KFox said:


> I wish I would have been on here with Tia, maybe I could have found something that could have saved her


Oh I know how you feel but I hope you're not blaming yourself for what happened to Tia. It wasn't your fault.  

I put Coco on the raw diet at 1 year old after she became sick many times and started having a few problems. It helped her so much I couldn't believe I hadn't known about raw feeding all along and it suddenly made so much sense... but the truth is even if I always felt like kibble was weird and unnatural, feeding pets commercial food is so ingrained into us that I never realised I could be feeding something else before that. 

I think it's great that you're considering the raw diet for Bailey and knowing how healthy Coco was on it, I'd say go for it. It's a worth a try and definitely worth the extra effort it requires in my experience. I'm already starting Lilo on it too!


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

I agree with everything Brodysmom says. The great thing about raw is that there is no one raw diet if you make it yourself. That's what I love about it- start with a baseline and you can alter it from there for your specific dog. Like Tracy said be careful with pre-made raw diets, a lot of them are great, but a lot are also full of veggies and a lot of ingredients you don't need. Just like with kibble you have to read the bag and make sure you are making a good choice. Personally I think the way to go is making it yourself, that's what I do.

Read the getting started threads on here- they are really great and will give you a good idea of where to start. Since transitioning Copley 4 years ago I have started my two chis on raw when I got them and many, many foster dogs in the time in between. I can't say enough good things about raw feeding.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

coco_little_bear said:


> Oh I know how you feel but I hope you're not blaming yourself for what happened to Tia. It wasn't your fault.
> 
> I put Coco on the raw diet at 1 year old after she became sick many times and started having a few problems. It helped her so much I couldn't believe I hadn't known about raw feeding all along and it suddenly made so much sense... but the truth is even if I always felt like kibble was weird and unnatural, feeding pets commercial food is so ingrained into us that I never realised I could be feeding something else before that.
> 
> I think it's great that you're considering the raw diet for Bailey and knowing how healthy Coco was on it, I'd say go for it. It's a worth a try and definitely worth the extra effort it requires in my experience. I'm already starting Lilo on it too!


I think I will always question...what if I did this or that would that have saved her? I just miss her so much! in the 6 short-weeks that I have had bailey, well she already means the world to me and I just couldn't bare loosing her now! So I want to do everything that I have been learning about thanks to all of you! I never knew about the raw diet, I assumed I was feeding the best of the best... I'm sure I will have a lot of questions.. Like how much at a time and for a 15week old puppy how many times a day? Do I give it to her frozen? I tried a half of a chicken wing (I cut it up into smaller pieces) and she ate all of it and loved it!


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

Brodysmom said:


> Just start off slow. Bone in chicken or chunks of cornish hen with bone. Read and research over in the raw diet section of this forum. There's a yahoo group on raw feeding that is helpful, although they are a bit militant in their approach. But still good information.
> 
> Some dogs do take to raw feeding right away. Some are harder. But eventually all dogs will learn. You just have to be patient.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your help! I want to do the best diet I can for her! It took a bit for me to believe I read a lot! I always thought food had to be cooked to kill the bacteria but for animals it's different... I still have a lot to learn and I wish vets were more open... I had a good vet he saved Tia's life once but put her on the perscription diet for her liver a low protein diet... I thought I was doing the best for her but her liver disease came back and took her from me... I just wish I would have known


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

KFox said:


> I think I will always question...what if I did this or that would that have saved her? I just miss her so much! in the 6 short-weeks that I have had bailey, well she already means the world to me and I just couldn't bare loosing her now! So I want to do everything that I have been learning about thanks to all of you! I never knew about the raw diet, I assumed I was feeding the best of the best... I'm sure I will have a lot of questions.. Like how much at a time and for a 15week old puppy how many times a day? Do I give it to her frozen? I tried a half of a chicken wing (I cut it up into smaller pieces) and she ate all of it and loved it!


A 15 week old puppy you want to feed 3 times a day, if your chi is tiny (like adult weight under 4lbs) you would want to do 4 times a day. I have always gone by 4 meals until 12 weeks, 3 meals until 6 months, then 2 meals after that. If your chi is a tiny one you would want to up all those numbers by one. Some also go to one meal after a year but it depends on the dog. 

As far as how much to feed you want to start with 3% of their expected adult weight split up into three meals. So if your chi would weigh 6lbs (it is ok to guess, you can adjust this) you would feed about 3 ounces of food a day. So three 1 ounce meals. 

That might be too little- depending on the dog, so if your puppy gets too skinny or seems really hungry then increase it a tiny bit. If your puppy is extremely active you might want to start with 4%.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

doginthedesert said:


> I agree with everything Brodysmom says. The great thing about raw is that there is no one raw diet if you make it yourself. That's what I love about it- start with a baseline and you can alter it from there for your specific dog. Like Tracy said be careful with pre-made raw diets, a lot of them are great, but a lot are also full of veggies and a lot of ingredients you don't need. Just like with kibble you have to read the bag and make sure you are making a good choice. Personally I think the way to go is making it yourself, that's what I do.
> 
> Read the getting started threads on here- they are really great and will give you a good idea of where to start. Since transitioning Copley 4 years ago I have started my two chis on raw when I got them and many, many foster dogs in the time in between. I can't say enough good things about raw feeding.


See and I always thought that some fruits and veggies were good, some of the top brand dog foods have fruit and veggies... A trick to sell or what?:/


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

KFox said:


> See and I always thought that some fruits and veggies were good, some of the top brand dog foods have fruit and veggies... A trick to sell or what?:/


I actually do feed 10% veggies- but if that is something you want to do then you want to add it later. I believe I am one of the few people on here who does feed veggies as part of my raw diet. I cook the veggies and make them into a slurry. My thought is that because I have access to a lot of great, locally grown veggies, and because they have a lot of good nutritious stuff in them (in my opinion) I believe in including them. Also while I do agree wolves are carnivores, they are not obligate carnivores like ferrets and cats, so they do have the ability to use some of the veggie nutrition (although being carnivores they do not need it).

With that said I feel that prey model is also a great diet, and that the veggies are not a necessary thing. They are more of an added bonus part and a lot of people think they are actually bad. I would never make them more than 10% of my dogs diet. I call what I feed "prey model plus". I do 70% muscle meat, 10%bone, 10%organ and 10% veggie.

Some people also feed BARF style raw- but that is confusing and complicated and I don't think anyone on here really does that. It seems to generally be falling out of favor- but does include a lot of veggies.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Annie's inclusion of veggies is certainly OK! Especially with access to a variety of local home grown veggies. They DO provide nutrients to dogs IF they are blended into a slurry/liquid. And especially if they are only 10% of the diet. Why should they be blended into a slurry first before feeding? Because dogs can't break down the outer cellulose/fiber if given whole. If you feed a carrot, it will likely come out looking very much the way it went in. 

So why do dog food manufacturers add vegetables and fruits? One reason is marketing. People think that fruits and veggies are healthy. So if their dog food includes them - that must mean it is healthy.  And reason number two - in order to extrude the kibble, it must be put through a machine that makes it into pellets. It is used as a binder. For example, if you just had a chunk of meat. And you ground it up. And then put it through an extruding machine, it wouldn't work. But ..... if you added fruits and veggies and a binder such as wheat, corn, soy, or in the case of grain free foods... barley, peas, potatos - then you could make a product that could be dried and go through the extruding machine and be made into pellets. Sort of like cereal.

And... you wouldn't have to use much meat! Now wouldn't that be cost effective for a manufacturer? 

here's an excellent article on the manufacturing process and what REALLY goes into dog food ....

What your dog food manufacturer doesn't want you to know - Seattle Dog Training, Behavior, and Nutrition | Examiner.com


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

Oh boy... I need to read more I want to get this right! Thank you both for your help!!


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## rudedog (Apr 4, 2013)

Hi kim, I have never fed raw meat to any of my dogs, I prefer cooked meats and dry biscuit with a little veg, and sometimes a little gravy, they love it, they have always been spot on when I've taken them to the vets for health checks, I've had german shepherds, shitzu, pekingese and chihuahua, sometimes raw food can make them have loose stools, hope this helps tan


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

rudedog said:


> Hi kim, I have never fed raw meat to any of my dogs, I prefer cooked meats and dry biscuit with a little veg, and sometimes a little gravy, they love it, they have always been spot on when I've taken them to the vets for health checks, I've had german shepherds, shitzu, pekingese and chihuahua, sometimes raw food can make them have loose stools, hope this helps tan


This sort of recipe is what my mother in law said she always fed her dogs- they are also from the UK. It is nice that in many areas this meat/vitamimized biscuit/veggie mix won out over kibble- because for sure it is better than all processed foods- however it seems to be a really UK thing. The biscuits are not what we americans would think of as kibble, it is more of a vitamin/calcium adding thing. I say this so everyone else is not like "What is this person talking about." It is really the UK version of what we would call a home cooked diet.

However Loose stools only happen on raw if you do it incorrectly- and yes you might mess up in the beginning and get a few loose stools- but once you figure out the amount of bone your dog needs you should not have a stool issue. Raw food does not cause loose stools just because it is raw.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

rudedog said:


> Hi kim, I have never fed raw meat to any of my dogs, I prefer cooked meats and dry biscuit with a little veg, and sometimes a little gravy, they love it, they have always been spot on when I've taken them to the vets for health checks, I've had german shepherds, shitzu, pekingese and chihuahua, sometimes raw food can make them have loose stools, hope this helps tan


Thanks Tania, I have to say I'm a little nervous about raw meat, but the more and more I read about it the better I feel.. I just hope I do it the right way:/


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

doginthedesert said:


> This sort of recipe is what my mother in law said she always fed her dogs- they are also from the UK. It is nice that in many areas this meat/vitamimized biscuit/veggie mix won out over kibble- because for sure it is better than all processed foods- however it seems to be a really UK thing. The biscuits are not what we americans would think of as kibble, it is more of a vitamin/calcium adding thing. I say this so everyone else is not like "What is this person talking about." It is really the UK version of what we would call a home cooked diet.
> 
> However Loose stools only happen on raw if you do it incorrectly- and yes you might mess up in the beginning and get a few loose stools- but once you figure out the amount of bone your dog needs you should not have a stool issue. Raw food does not cause loose stools just because it is raw.


Well I sure hope I do this right,I'm a bit nervous, don't be surprised of I'm asking for help again!lol


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

KFox said:


> I think I will always question...what if I did this or that would that have saved her? I just miss her so much! in the 6 short-weeks that I have had bailey, well she already means the world to me and I just couldn't bare loosing her now!


I know how you feel. I wish there was something I could say but I feel the same about Coco. My mind keeps going over what happened and trying to undo it. What if I had done this or that... I miss her _so_ much too it's killing me. 

I'm the same with Lilo in that I'm being a lot more protective of her than I was with Coco as I couldn't handle losing her too. I think you're doing the right thing for Bailey. I know the raw diet can seem complicated and scary at first. I was nervous about it before starting with Coco too (and I am again now with Lilo since she's just 15 weeks old whereas Coco was fully grown when I started), but it's not that bad once you get into it. And there is so much good advice on this forum.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Can I ask this curiosity question on this thread for Kim's benefit, but I also would like to know? If you feed raw homemade diet as opposed to raw commercial diet, would you freeze the meat for 2 weeks before you serve to your dog to kill certain bacteria? I wouldn't worry about salmonella, but possibly other bacteria that a dog can't handle. I may be wrong--they may be able to handle anything--just asking because I am still researching myself and working toward feeding homemade raw.


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

lulu'smom said:


> Can I ask this curiosity question on this thread for Kim's benefit, but I also would like to know? If you feed raw homemade diet as opposed to raw commercial diet, would you freeze the meat for 2 weeks before you serve to your dog to kill certain bacteria? I wouldn't worry about salmonella, but possibly other bacteria that a dog can't handle. I may be wrong--they may be able to handle anything--just asking because I am still researching myself and working toward feeding homemade raw.


You don't need to freeze any meat you buy that was meant for human consumption. So 99% of anything you would feed you don't have to freeze. If you go out and hunt wild game in certain areas you might want to freeze it for two weeks depending on what kind of animal it is and what area it lived in.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Personally, I freeze the dogs meat most of the time. I always freeze fish. It is more about killing any parasites than bacteria.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Wicked Pixie said:


> It is more about killing any parasites than bacteria.


I couldn't word what was running around in my head, but you put it perfectly! Thanks!


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

lulu'smom said:


> Can I ask this curiosity question on this thread for Kim's benefit, but I also would like to know? If you feed raw homemade diet as opposed to raw commercial diet, would you freeze the meat for 2 weeks before you serve to your dog to kill certain bacteria? I wouldn't worry about salmonella, but possibly other bacteria that a dog can't handle. I may be wrong--they may be able to handle anything--just asking because I am still researching myself and working toward feeding homemade raw.


Thank you you all are so helpful! If you do freeze it do you feed it to them frozen?


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

KFox said:


> Thank you you all are so helpful! If you do freeze it do you feed it to them frozen?


No, not usually. I feed my beagle mix partially frozen sometimes, and Nova too- because they are gulpers and it slows them down. Kerri gets an upset stomach if she eats frozen food.

In general you want to feed it thawed.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

I always defrost meat, mine get upset tummies if the food is too cold too. I try and serve all meals at room temperature (I stand their bowls in a bowl of hot water if it has been in the fridge) except whole fish, which they prefer frozen.
Feeding bones frozen is a good way to slow down gulpers.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

Bailey was throwing up this morning.. Not really anything just liquid but my husband is questioning this... The raw feeding people on Facebook are a little harsh in some answers to new people... I didn't understand what they were getting at but finally a guy said they feed a whole bird/or slab of meat the dog eats what they want the put whats left in the fridge until the next meal for all day... And to stay away from store bought premade raw food...and don't talk about measuring in cups they assume your feeding ground meat... I was a little frustrated at first but I think I'm starting to understand this a little more.. I just want to make sure I'm not making my little one sick:0/ and not feel stupid at the same time


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Which FB group are you on? Some of them are a little millitant in their approach lol. I am a member of a very friendly one, I can add you if you like? It is set to 'secret' as they were getting a huge influx of new members from the other groups.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Was Bailey just bringing up bile? That can happen if they get too hungry /empty between meals. Try feeding more frequently, or adding a snack before bedtime.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

Wicked Pixie said:


> Was Bailey just bringing up bile? That can happen if they get too hungry /empty between meals. Try feeding more frequently, or adding a snack before bedtime.


Yes about 4 this morning... How exactly do you feed your pups?
And the Facebook page is raw feeding people... Thank you! I love all of you in this group, everyone has been so kind and helpful!!


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Mine are adults, so usually get fed twice a day. I vary the feeding times so they don't anticipate meals, which I find helps with the bile problem.
Make sure she has a snack if you don't want to feed her late at night, I include healthy chews in their diet, dried trachea, paddywack, tripe sticks etc which would all work as a last treat before bedtime.
I feed whatever is cheap lol Most of their food is what is reduced in the supermarket, I do have a lovely butcher as well who puts things by for me. I try really hard to include as much variety as possible.
I don't feed a lot of ground meat, the only exception being tripe. (I tried tripe chunks, they are impossible to cut up, tougher than old rubber!) I do use pre-made complete on occasion, but the majority of their meals are DIY.
I don't feed large portions then take it away for another day as it just wouldn't work with mine. The girls are greedy, they wouldn't want to stop. Harley isn't as bothered about food, if he is only fed food he has to work at he doesn't eat enough.
There is no one correct way to feed raw, it is about finding what suits you and your dog.
If you want to include ground meats or pre-made raw, then go ahead, it is still a hundred times better than kibble IMO. As long as you stick roughly to the ratio of 8:1:1 meat/bone/organs and include as much variety as possible you will be on the right track. PM me your FB details, and I will add you to my FB group. They are very open minded, we have members who feed whole prey, lots who feed solely minces, include veg or feed a combination of raw and commercial food, anyone who is interested in improving their dogs diet is welcome.


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

I agree with Wicked Pixie totally. A lot of the raw feeding groups out there are really militant, if you give your dog a carrot once a week to chew on they make you feel like a horrible person- LOL. I had to un-join a mailing list and remove myself from a facebook group because I thought it was getting mean and I didn't even want to read it. I was part of the group and when I first started feeding raw I almost stopped because the people on there kept making me cry- this was over 4 years ago- so don't feel bad! 

As far as the issues at hand you got good advise from Stella. Premade raw is an ok option, and I keep pre-made stuff around for emergencies or vacations!


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

KFox said:


> Yes about 4 this morning... How exactly do you feed your pups?


I'm not sure if I'm right or not, but for my personal experience when I took Lulu off kibble and started home cooking (which she was 4 yrs old at the time--not a puppy) she did the same thing. Woke me up in the middle of the night starving for several nights, couldn't make it to the next feeding without some kind of snack. I now feed a combination of ZP, dehydrated raw, & home cooking and she is fine--makes it all night and from the morning feeding to the evening feeding without a snack unless I just choose to give one because I want to. I really think they have to adjust to the difference in kibble and raw and how long they can go without needing food. I think that is what Bailey was experiencing--adjustment in the difference in the kibble she was used to and raw. She will adjust, Lulu did with no problem. Just do as Stella suggested.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I agree it does sound like bile vomits. Which means an empty tummy. So feed a snack before bed. I like konas chips. You can google them. Great company. Many others are jumping on the dehydrated bandwagon since it is such a healthy snack. You can even do your own. Search on here and you will find lots of info on people who like to dehydrate foods for their dogs. Some dogs just need that extra food in the tummy overnight. 

I agree that some of the raw feeding lists (yahoo for example) and some of the FB groups are just so militant in their approach. Their way or the highway and they often don't help newbies but tell them to read the files, etc. That's well and good but sometimes you just need someone to talk you through a problem. Everyone here is super nice and helpful. Lots of different approaches to feeding our dogs, but we all have the same goal which is a healthy, happy dog.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

Oh yes,yes, that's exactly what they said and slammed me for how their rules are... This is so new to me and my emotions are high from losing my dear Tia ( the vet had her on perscription food low protein for her liver) so I want to try this for Bailey because I've read and been told its the best, but I need help not sarcasm... So I really appreciate all of you and your patients with my questions!


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

Brodysmom said:


> I agree it does sound like bile vomits. Which means an empty tummy. So feed a snack before bed. I like konas chips. You can google them. Great company. Many others are jumping on the dehydrated bandwagon since it is such a healthy snack. You can even do your own. Search on here and you will find lots of info on people who like to dehydrate foods for their dogs. Some dogs just need that extra food in the tummy overnight.
> 
> I agree that some of the raw feeding lists (yahoo for example) and some of the FB groups are just so militant in their approach. Their way or the highway and they often don't help newbies but tell them to read the files, etc. That's well and good but sometimes you just need someone to talk you through a problem. Everyone here is super nice and helpful. Lots of different approaches to feeding our dogs, but we all have the same goal which is a healthy, happy dog.


I ordered some konas samples... they have a lot of different kinds on their website for a $1.00 a sample w no tax or shipping


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## chi-bella (Jun 20, 2013)

My Gonzo took more than a half year before he really liked his raw food.

When I offerd it the first time, he wasn't interested.
He din't eat anything for 10 days, then he tried a bit...and stopped eating for 6 more days :foxes15:

For him, it wasn't bad, cause he was too fat  and he is a crossbreed with nearly 9kg...for a Chihuahua that would be too long.

My Frieda got raw food from the beginning when she was 12 weeks old.
She is one of the healthiest dogs I have ever seen 

And Bärbel loves it as well.


It's kind of interesting to see how you are handling the raw feeding.
80%meat, 10% bones and 10% organs ... that not the way we handle it in germany and the "german raw feeders" would tell you, that your dog doesn't get all the nutritions.

We have 80% "animal" and 20% vegetables and fruits...

the animal part is splitted into 4 "groups"
50% meat
20% rumen (and other stomach of other ruminent animals...)
15% organs (but not more than 5% liver cause it would give too much vitamin a )
15% bones


and the vegetable part is splitted into 70% vegetables and 30% fruits


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Lots of British raw feeders feed that way too, there are lots of different 'models' of raw feeding.
I don't personally feel fruit/veg is necessary, especially in a small breed where it just bulks out the diet. I do feed a lot of tripe though, which the hardcore whole prey feeders wouldn't approve of.
There is also a lot of debate as to what constitutes 'organs'. On prey model raw it is secreting organs only, things like lungs, tripe and heart are classed as meat.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

I accidentally deleted this thread😁I'm such a ding dong!! My thumbs are too big I guess being on my iPhone and not the computer.. gahhh!


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm using chicken for a week, then I thought I would try pork then when do the organs start?


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

I add organs after about a month, when they are eating a good variety already. It is handy to have some in though (especially liver) in case you over do the bone and get a bunged up dog. (More likely to go the other way, which is why it is advised to go bone-heavy in the beginning, but each dog is different.)


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

chi-bella said:


> My Gonzo took more than a half year before he really liked his raw food.
> 
> When I offerd it the first time, he wasn't interested.
> He din't eat anything for 10 days, then he tried a bit...and stopped eating for 6 more days :foxes15:
> ...


Interesting! That's why I tell people- it is not really that hard- and it can't be too easy to mess up because there are like a million ways to do it! When people get all crazy about my way or the highway I just think about all the dogs that are thriving on BARF, or models like this, and prey model and I am just amazed that people don't see what matters. Fresh, whole foods is what makes the difference in health- not what tiny percentage differences we all have between what we feed.

I probably feed close to this- but with less than half of the veggies/fruit (I only do 10%). And I also feed tripe, my dogs love it, and I get a good price on frozen patties so they are really convenient. Plus when we get whole goat the tripe is a lot of the inside too, seems like if they will eat it I should feed it.


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## chi-bella (Jun 20, 2013)

I calculated roughly what I need for my 3 babys.
I buy it online at very good German shop for raw food...and then I put it in the freezer and I feed what I what until the freezer is empty :coolwink:

Vegetables and fruits alway fresh, my dogs LOVE vegetables...and Frieda is eating Banana like a little monkey 


@doginthedessert

that what I say to all of those "hardcore-feeders" when they try to tell me that I have to measure everything...
Once a year we go to the vet for a big check, including a big picture of the blood, and everything is fine!

So, for MY dogs, it seems to be the right way 

At the moment I'm feeding Bärbel more exactly then before, and she is getting some grain like millet, amaranth and quinoa, but only becaus I suppose her to be pregnant.


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## chi-bella (Jun 20, 2013)

I forgot something ^^

I have never heard the word "tripe" before...could you explain it to me? :daisy:

Do you feed raw pork? 
That's something we'd never do in Germany, cause they say raw pork could make the dog very ill.

Most of the raw feeders are feeding cattle and chicken.

Gonzo can't handle with cattle and he doesn't like chicken, so I feed goat, horse, deer and lamb.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

chi-bella said:


> My Gonzo took more than a half year before he really liked his raw food.
> 
> When I offerd it the first time, he wasn't interested.
> He din't eat anything for 10 days, then he tried a bit...and stopped eating for 6 more days :foxes15:
> ...


I'm still learning every day about this diet, so far Bailey has been doing well and chows it down each time... She is full of energy, and her bowl movements look normal.. The only problem I had in the beginning were the one morn of throwing up bile, but I took everyone's advice to give a small snack before bed and she has been fine since... Oh also I noticed before I started her eyes were a little runny and now they aren't at all!


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Anni, tripe is the stomach lining of ruminants, what you called rumen. 
Yes, we feed raw pork. As long as it is UK produced it is safe to feed. All the pork I feed is from my local butcher, produced and slaughtered locally.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

I was just on Facebook and saw on the (RF) group that a dog just died a couple of hrs ago from choaking on a pigs snout... Not that I'm going to feed Bailey that but now I'm worried about choaking on bones??i wish I didn't see that! It's so heartbreaking and bothersome


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

KFox said:


> I was just on Facebook and saw on the (RF) group that a dog just died a couple of hrs ago from choaking on a pigs snout... Not that I'm going to feed Bailey that but now I'm worried about choaking on bones??i wish I didn't see that! It's so heartbreaking and bothersome


Well for a bigger dog a pig shout would certainly be a choking hazard. It is round and for something lab sized I bet it could get stuck. Also it is not a bone- so don't let one incident with a probably inappropriately sized piece of boneless meat worry you about bone.

Try not to worry too much.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

I saw that too, it is so sad.
To be fair, dogs can choke on all sorts of things, balls being a common one.
Harley has choked on large pieces of meat a couple of times, it is really scary. He has his meat cut up now, he is actually frightened of large pieces of beef since the last scare, bless him. He is extremely careful with bones though, chews them properly.
So firstly, know your dog. if you have a gulper, feed appropriately sized food.
Secondly, always supervise your dogs meals.
Thirdly, educate yourself. Learn the doggy Heimlich manouevre, just in case.
Fortunately these things are quite rare.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

Wicked Pixie said:


> I saw that too, it is so sad.
> To be fair, dogs can choke on all sorts of things, balls being a common one.
> Harley has choked on large pieces of meat a couple of times, it is really scary. He has his meat cut up now, he is actually frightened of large pieces of beef since the last scare, bless him. He is extremely careful with bones though, chews them properly.
> So firstly, know your dog. if you have a gulper, feed appropriately sized food.
> ...


Annie and Stella~ do you feed pork and if you do what pieces do you feed? One reason I'm asking is I personally don't eat pork so I really don't have a clue about it and how to cut it up for Bailey... Well actually I don't eat a lot of meat maybe that's why I'm nervous... But really I'm ok w it.. I feel wheat isn't good in a dogs diet or really in a humans diet( allergies)yeah long story I can explain if anyone wants to pm me... Anyway back to the subject... Is it better to cut up everything into little pieces for the size of the pup? Sorry for all of the questions, but if I did something to cause my dogs death I would never forgive myself.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

I feed mostly pork bones; ribs, necks and tails. I feed fresh ears if I can get them. Sometimes pork chops, I remove the bones from them though, as they have been sawn. Pigs hearts are a big hit, (they do need chopping up, they are quite large, one heart does about 12 chi sized meals I think.) 
I do feed some pigs offal, but they are not as keen. Pigs's sweetbreads (which is pancreas and thymus) are a hit, spleen, liver and kidney not so much (have to be hidden in things for Harley, but he isn't a huge offal fan anyway.) 
If you are shopping at a supermarket, you can get diced pork that is already cut up.


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## chi-bella (Jun 20, 2013)

@Wicked Pixie
Thanks fpr your answer 


My dogs love to eat the ears of a lamb, with fur 

Or complete legs of a lamp or deer ... with fur and hoof  
But I would never leave them alone while they are chewing bones or something like that.

next week i'll get fresh meat of a goat. hope to get some legs and ears as well


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

I forgot to say about pork and safety issues, I freeze the dogs meat for at least 48 hours, and fish for a fortnight, to kill off any parasites.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Wicked Pixie said:


> I forgot to say about pork and safety issues, I freeze the dogs meat for at least 48 hours, and fish for a fortnight, to kill off any parasites.


I have been reading all along on this thread (still working up my homemade raw nerve) and pork was the meat in particular I was referring to when I questioned about freezing. Glad to see this.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

I have never had a problem with the pork I feed, but if you are unhappy about feeding pork Tina, just don't feed it. Feed other red meats (beef, lamb, goat, venison etc) instead. That's the thing with a homemade diet, you can tweak it so it suits you and your dogs. Pork is a great meat, cheap and easily found, but it isn't essential.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

Wicked Pixie said:


> I have never had a problem with the pork I feed, but if you are unhappy about feeding pork Tina, just don't feed it. Feed other red meats (beef, lamb, goat, venison etc) instead. That's the thing with a homemade diet, you can tweak it so it suits you and your dogs. Pork is a great meat, cheap and easily found, but it isn't essential.


So far...( knock on wood and w everyones advice)things have been going fairly ok except now I think she may be getting bored w chicken.. She is only wanting to eat it if I warm it for 5 seconds.. She doesn't like it cold at all... Oh also I think her 3rd round of shots made her car sick and she threw up her lunch on the way home from the vet and a bit of diarrhea, but it was also hot out... She's been fine since... I'm going to try another meat this weekend, I'm glad I saw your post Stella... I'm iffy on pork also:0/


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

KFox said:


> I think she may be getting bored w chicken.. She is only wanting to eat it if I warm it for 5 seconds.. She doesn't like it cold at all...


I don't know if it will help, but Lilo didn't want to eat cold chicken either. Since I've been mixing/coating it with a bit of plain yoghurt she got used to it and devours it. I gave it to her without yoghurt today and she hesitated a bit, but soon enough ate it all. Or maybe she's just bored of it like you said and will be ok with it when new meats are introduced to add variety.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

lulu'smom said:


> I have been reading all along on this thread (still working up my homemade raw nerve) and pork was the meat in particular I was referring to when I questioned about freezing. Glad to see this.


Tina~
I was a sceptic also, but after my heartbreaking loss of my Tia that was only 7, I am not going to let this happen again and I will do everything in my power to keep Bailey as healthy as I can... This was one reason so I've done a lot of investigating and In my heart I know it the best...another reason was....
One of my coworkers friend that does dog/animal rescue actually came to me telling me about dogs that she has rescued, and the vets have wanted to put down, and she took them in fed pure raw even the very sick ones, lived another 5-6 happy years... unfortunately, when Tia was sick it was too late for her, Tia had internal bleeding and there wasn't anything more we could do even tho I tried down to the very last day! I wish I would have known about this years ago and I really do think I could have saved her! With all of the reading ive done and the other chi owners input I feel I have a lot of support and help if and when I need it... I have to admit its not as easy as kibble but I think in the long run it will be worth it!
I really hope that didn't come across wrong.. I really don't mean anything offensive this is a big learning experience for me also..


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

coco_little_bear said:


> I don't know if it will help, but Lilo didn't want to eat cold chicken either. Since I've been mixing/coating it with a bit of plain yoghurt she got used to it and devours it. I gave it to her without yoghurt today and she hesitated a bit, but soon enough ate it all. Or maybe she's just bored of it like you said and will be ok with it when new meats are introduced to add variety.


Thank-you I will try that... It doesn't give her the runs?


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

KFox said:


> Thank-you I will try that... It doesn't give her the runs?


No, actually it did the opposite with Lilo. She didn't digest chicken properly at the start and yoghurt seems to help.


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## KFox (Apr 17, 2013)

coco_little_bear said:


> No, actually it did the opposite with Lilo. She didn't digest chicken properly at the start and yoghurt seems to help.


Oh nice! I will try... This is why I need you all!! Lol!


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