# Desperate any breeders help URGENT



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

Hi last night my chi went in to labour 9 days early she has had 1 puppy at 4.20am it is still alive now but has not really fed yet it can not feed off
mum as it is not strong enough to suckle have tried to syringe feed but does
not seem to be able to swallow. Has anyone had a litter this early and what
do I do, have taken to the vet and had a steroid injection to help with lungs.


----------



## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

I'm not sure what you should do - but if I was you, I would get onto the vet again.
Is this your third litter this week?


----------



## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

I'm not a breeder sorry so can't help. I'd take the it to the vet asap. 

I know people will probably have a go at me but I trust you realise now breeding isn't easy and having three litters at the same time was a bad idea even for an experienced breeder it would be hard. I hope your Chi's recover well and the little one is ok. 

I'm sorry if I seem harsh. I hope you get the advice you need.


----------



## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

Try ringing your vet for advice or maybe google the problem.


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

Well the thing is princess it not due for another week and a bit and my girls where late so I would not of had them all together. And I knew it would be difficult but it is
something I really want to do and am not working so I can focus on it. I have been to the vet and they have seen him and say it does not look good. Princess still has about 3 pups in her and has a scan and they have sent me home to wait. I was just wondering if anyone has ever been in this situation and I am really tired and upset and really don't need any negative advice or opinions at the moment please.


----------



## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

Have you tried rubbing his throat when you are feeding him? That makes them swallow


----------



## rache (Nov 10, 2009)

I think I would really pester my vet and even ring round for a second opinion. I really dont know what else to say, I have no experience with this what so ever. 

Hope the pup pulls thru. xx


----------



## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

I found this info, it may help

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/feeding.html


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Oh no!! You mean she is still in pre-term labor with 3 more pups to give birth to? That doesn't sound good at all. In people, they can give medicine to make labor wait. Not possible yet in dogs. 

A premature litter is VERY hard, as their suck reflex is not developed. Go to your vet ASAP with the pup and have them show you how to tube feed. You will run a tube attached to a syringe from the mouth of the baby into the stomach. Then you will inject the milk into the stomach. I think this is the ONLY way you will be able to save the puppies. You have to be very careful not to go into the lungs or they will drown from the fluid. It is a very precise method, but it does work and saves puppies.

Does your other bitch have much milk? You might be able to milk her and get some of her milk for the new puppies to syringe feed them. They really need the antibodies in mothers milk. Goats milk or puppy milk replacer is a POOR substitute for the real thing.

Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Tracy is right, you need to get the vet to show you how to tube feed the pup.

Here's a site which is like a diary of a premature puppy and how they got it feeding, going to the loo etc.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/breedingdogs/whelpingprematurepuppy.htm

I hope all goes ok with the mum and the other 3 pups, good luck you must be shattered.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Sorry to hear your bad news, i didnt know you had bred 3 at the same time.
I have a formula, its australian and works great for me:
1 egg yolk,
2 tbsp of mayonaise
1 cup of yoghurt
10oz of evaporated milk
3ox of sterilised(boiled) water

You need to mix it together by hand well. Dont heat it you put in a bottle in a jug of hot water, do not directly heat the actual milk. It lasts 7 days in a fridge. Use the cheapest brands as this contains more fat for weight gain i.e. tesco's own make Greek yoghurt not diet or lighter versions
Whether you wish to try this or not is your decision.
Good luck im sure theres a lot more advice on here if you just ask for it!


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Oh my word I am so so sorry!!!! You REALLY need to learn how to tube feed. Feeding them with a syringe before they know how to suck or swallow can actually drown them. You NEED to keep the puppy very very very warm, warmer than a full term newborn. Good luck I really hope some of your puppies survive, i'll be thinking about you. And I know you are very concerned and want the very bust for your pups. (((hugs)))


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Here is some wonderful info on preemie pup care. 
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/breedingdogs/whelpingprematurelitter.htm


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

Hi thanks everyone my vet has urged me not to tube feed as is dangerous if not done correctly. Cheeky have you used this mix yourself and was it on a prem pup.


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

He weighs 2 oz 1/8 is this a good or bad weight he does not seem that small he is the length of my I phone.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

yes weve raised puppies rejected by mums and used to start weaning them on too. its nice to know youre taking advice! Weve had a good success rate but it all depends on the uppies really. You might have to dilute it so say 1oz of wter to 3 oz of milk mix. this makes it a bit easier to digest. I raised Fifis first litter of Rolo, Apple & Smudge on this if you look on my past babies page you can see they turned out fine!


Well Tulula was that big when she went compared to iPod touch length basically the same as an iPhone so. he sounds an ok weight what did your vets say?


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

eagleschihuahuas said:


> He weighs 2 oz 1/8 is this a good or bad weight he does not seem that small he is the length of my I phone.


Hmmm that sounds like a fine weight to me??? That's about what my pom weighed when she was born. Maybe keep trying to get him to suckle on mom. Like I said before make sure the pup stays very warm, but also make sure it doesn't get dehydrated. You really need to make sure you are getting the liquids in, has it taken anything yet?


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

but if hes premature he wont have a suckling reflex properly yet this is the problem


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

yeah I know...I just want it to get fluids so bad, so so many things go wrong. Dehydration, low blood sugar etc. I wish you could tube feed  Hey can't the vet tube feed and show you how?


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

i think she tried that already? no sure


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

That is my problem he can not suck I am syringe feeding him very very slowly drops and then massaging his neck and putting my finger in and he is trying very hard to suck
it. All my Feds are closed now and they have said to leave princess as she is ok and no
more signs of labour and they say it may be a very rare case that she could not carry them all as she is really really big she aborted one and she will continue her pregnancy with the rest as normal or she may go in to labour tonight just have to wait the pups are fine as had scan they are not in distress from there heart beat so keep feeling belly
for movement and go on Monday if nothing has happened for another scan. The longer there in there the better the chance of survival they did not want to do c
section as they are so early or bring labour on. And she is showing no signs of labour and no contractions and is sleeping and has eaten.


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

I have him in a box with a hot water wraped in a towel with a balnket over him the heat mat just dosent seem to be keeping him warm and this does. I was just told about the tube feeding that they can't really teach me as I could still put the pipe in his lungs ny accident so catch 22 as I could also drown him by syring feeding. Cheeky could you please put recipe again with the ammount of everything you
think I need and will a raw egg be ok because of salmonella.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Keep trying that then if its semi-working

maybe she couldnt hold them all? I had a sable girl she was very big and pupped 6days early on her own in the middle of the night woke up and she had had 8 puppies as far as i was aware and everyone of them died. I was so like why the heck? but apparently she was too full and this forced labour early! All girls are different Fifi has 3 puppies all the same colours just different sexes each time!


----------



## chideb (Jan 29, 2008)

I too am worried about the mom with other pups not delivered, and about the premmie pup.. 
When our litter was born on Nov.30th, there were 4 pups. We lost the smallest one at 4 days old because she could not suckle as she should. Our vet hospitalized her, placed a feeding tube in to get nourishment in her and she was placed in an incubator to maintain her body temp. We knew that things did not look good for her, but tried everything we could. When we brought her home, we tried to bottle raise her, but to no avail. The other 3 pups were totally healthy and are now 10 weeks old.

I have no experience with a mom who has delivered one pup, and doesn't deliver the others within a reasonable length of time. I would be very concerned about that and would personally be taking her to my vet. I would feel that if she were there, they could monitor her and do an emergency C-section if needed. I am so sad all this is happening to your chi moms and I pray for healing for all of you. Blessings, Deb


----------



## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear about your little pup having trouble. I know this is very hard on you. I know you are doing your very best for the lil guy. The vet may have opted against tube feeding if they didn't feel the pup was strong enough. That may sound odd, but with the lil guy being 9 days early he is very weak. I would continue to keep him very warm, and get him to eat what you can. We will say a prayer for you and the new baby. Our very best wishes are with you. We are pulling for the little guy.

As for the Mom having one pup, then waiting so many days to have the others. That can be dangerous. They can develop an infection, and you could lose the pups, and Mom. I’m surprised your vet didn’t keep her in the hospital. If nothing else but to monitor her. I would start taking her temps regularly to make sure she doesn’t develop a fever. If anything seems off I would get her to an emergency clinic. I would monitor her all through the night just to be safe.

Please keep us posted.


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Imo, I would get a 2nd opinion from another vet just to be safe. Vet's can be funny and some uncaring.

To the other's reading...could the mom die from this? If so then I would be more concerned with her health and go for a c-section.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

yes raw egg is fine! i posted it for you all on either the first or second page!


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Yoshismom said:


> Imo, I would get a 2nd opinion from another vet just to be safe. Vet's can be funny and some uncaring.


I was thinking this too .


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

hmm definately i would have thought that undelivered puppies after one has been born was unsafe but hey there professionals! i usually get my vet to come to ours if my girl hasnt had a second puppy or showing contractions like an hour after the first? who nos


----------



## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Yoshismom said:


> To the other's reading...could the mom die from this? If so then I would be more concerned with her health and go for a c-section.


Yes, the Mom can die if infection sets in or other complications arise. The only way to be safe would be by Mom being hospitalized and monitored. That way they could do an emergency c-section should the need arise. She might lose the puppies, or some of the puppies, but Mom would have a much better chance this way. 

I assume the reason the vets aren't overly concerned at this point is that the Mom doesn't appear to still be in labor. I personally have never heard of one pup being born 9 days early them Mom carrying the others to full term. Normally when Mom has one pup, and the others aren't born soon, they do a c-section for Mom's sake.


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

Well I am very sad to say that the little boy has sadly passed away, he just stopped breathing. I am sad but almost feel he is now out of his misery.


----------



## chideb (Jan 29, 2008)

I am so sorry.. but you are right that he is no longer suffering...
How is the mom doing now? Blessings, Deb


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

Well my normal vet said to just bring her home and rest her so I got another opinion which is the one who said she may of aborted the baby so the others can live so that is 2 different vets that have told me wait keep an eye on her rest her and keep feeling for movements of the puppies and take her back on Monday for another scan if nothing had happened do you think I should call
another vet for another opinion??????


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

yes try another vets explain that you need to speak to a vet not a nurse and explain everyhing just to get another opinion


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

eagleschihuahuas said:


> Well I am very sad to say that the little boy has sadly passed away, he just stopped breathing. I am sad but almost feel he is now out of his misery.


poor baby well at least you have no worries and that he is ok now good luck witht he rest


----------



## KayC (May 3, 2005)

I am so sorry to hear this. I am hoping that things go well for the mom and the other pups. And you as well. R.I.P little boy.


----------



## jan896 (Dec 9, 2009)

I don't have any advice....... but I do have this ***HUGS**

very sorry to hear of the pup passing......


----------



## rache (Nov 10, 2009)

oh Emma, I'm really sorry to hear this. I cant imagine what you must be going thru right now. I hope Your little girl holds on to the rest of her pups for as long as possible and the outcome is a happy one. 

((((((HUGS)))))) x


----------



## KayC (May 3, 2005)

I am sending you a PM


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

My opinion would be to put the mother's life first. I think she is in danger by passing a puppy and then her labor stopping and not passing the others. She has given birth, so she has an open portal for infection. Is she having any drainage? Watery, pink, bloody, black? I know you want to keep the babies alive if you can, of course, but I would be very concerned that you could lose your girl. Pyometra, infection of the uterus, can kill.


----------



## mad dog woman (Oct 29, 2006)

Breeding is full of heartaches even more so with these little dogs. I have lost a full litter of 3 myself this year so my heart goes out to you and your doggies and I hope all goes well with the mum and the other puppies.....sending big hugs x


----------



## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

eagleschihuahuas said:


> Well the thing is princess it not due for another week and a bit and my girls where late so I would not of had them all together. And I knew it would be difficult but it is
> something I really want to do and am not working so I can focus on it. I have been to the vet and they have seen him and say it does not look good. Princess still has about 3 pups in her and has a scan and they have sent me home to wait. I was just wondering if anyone has ever been in this situation and I am really tired and upset and really don't need any negative advice or opinions at the moment please.


The mom of my current chi ALWAYS has her puppies about a week early and they do just fine...so maybe it's just a waiting game. I hope yours will be as well! =)


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

I spoke to another vet and got his opinion he thinks that because she was so big she had aborted the pup to carry on carrying the rest as the other vet said. He did say that now the cervix is open she is open to infection so to keep a close eye out for discharge at the moment she has no discharge of any descripition as I am checking regularly. Also the vet said if she does get an infection dosent mean still she should have the pups he would give her antibiotics first. So I am going to keep a close eye on her and check her vulva regularly for any type of discharge and then take her to the vets first thing. She has tried to give her babies a chance at live by getting rid of one so I know wha you are saying but the minute I suspect anything I will take her straight to the vet if before Monday as I will be going first thing. She will be 7 days early on Monday and a much better chance for survival for pups and who knows she may even go in to labour on her own tonight it may just be a big delay between babys which the vet said does happen sometimes. 
I don't want anyone to think I don't care about my girl because it is not the case at all but if she has not giveN up on them I not quite ready to either.


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

I just can't believe how this is happened to me all in less than a week I feel totally beaten down. I have done everything by the book and they have been treated like little queens. 
Is it just bad luck or do you think it could be something
more like maybe the stud dogs I don't know I can't see how 3 bitches all from different lines have had so many problems.


----------



## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

I hope you and your pups are ok, breeding can be very heart aching its one of the major things that im not sure that i could deal with right now, so will be putting off breeding for a few years.
do keep us updated with how it goes. good luck. 
xxxx


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

Well I have been on another forum I am a member of and there is a lady who has breed for 30 years and 1 who has 50 years and they think she will be fine to leave as long as I watch over her like a hawk. They think maybe even the puppy was pushed out with no space. So I will keep you all updated and hope for at least another 3 days min to hold
out.


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm glad you found a vet that seems even more helpful  I agree just keep a close eye on her. I have heard of humans having one baby early and then carrying the other to term, so I don't see why it couldn't happen in a dog.


----------



## rache (Nov 10, 2009)

Glad you got a second opinion again. 

Fingers and toes crossed they hang in there for a few more days x


----------



## CudasMom (Dec 22, 2009)

wow that is alot to handle! I breed my boxers and had two litters 9 days apart and that was way more work than i was ready for, i will not ever be doing that again lol. My vet did however show me how to tubefeed my runt that was 8 oz pretty small for a boxer pup and i was scared cause i heard all that stuff too but once he showed me and made me do it , it was easy and i never had a problem after that. I think the risk of problems tube feeding as long as your careful are a lot less than letting a pup go without eating so i would learn for the future just in case. Sometimes fate is just not kind to us but you have to see it as a learning experiance if you want to be serious and keep going . You have seen how bad things can get so you know what to expect and how to deal with it another time . I wish you the best and so sorry , I know you must be emotionally drained right now.


----------



## Vivid (Jul 23, 2009)

This is one of the reasons i will never breed my dog and leave breeding to the professionals. 

I hope your dog and her unborn pups all pull through and live healthy full lives


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

eagleschihuahuas said:


> I just can't believe how this is happened to me all in less than a week I feel totally beaten down. I have done everything by the book and they have been treated like little queens.
> Is it just bad luck or do you think it could be something
> more like maybe the stud dogs I don't know I can't see how 3 bitches all from different lines have had so many problems.


It could be the stud or the bitch it depends everydog is different!


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

Thanks everyone for you support and advise she has gone through another night and seems fine I can still feel puppys moving and she has no discharge at all. I am not letting her out to toilet as don't want to increase risk of infection. 
I know what people are saying about breeders but I am starting to breed to become a breeder so if I don't start as a beginner where do I start. I am going to start looking in to showing my chis so when I am breeding I will be carrying on a good
blood line. Also I am going to be breeding my English bull terrier this year as I want to keep a pup to show. I am already a member of the south eastern ebt club and go to shows to learn and observe the breed. So I am serious I am not just not going to be a pet breeder. I would like to get a boy but can not stand all the weeing with bitches about how does everyone else do this please.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

well i wouldnt recommend breeding your two girls who already had a c-section. And hopefuly a note to yourself dont bred more then one litter at a time till your expereinced more.This rarely happens to me i like to have time till my litter are at least 4 weeks before my next girl is ready to have puppies although this is never a usual thing! And im not being rude but dont use the same studs again either! lol


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

No i will not use the same studs again I already have my next stud lined up and only one girl so far has had a c section. And the problem is my girls bring each other In to season so this time it will be ok because roxy will be mated and fifi who had c section won't and not to sure what will happen with princess yet so may have 2 at same time but I am waiting for my smooth coat to come in to season she was due 20th dec and still nothing so she will a different time to the others. But I think you must agree I have had the worst bad luck with my first 3 litters. But at least little chance is fighting and roxy has become a brillant mother. His little pink feet are now turning white. Will get some
more pics soon but she hates anyone even touching him lol.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

it good to be prepared but its a bit weird that theyve only had puppies andyour planning it out already ( dont you want to miss a season with them or are you going to breed them next season too? ) although it might be in your favour of luck to pre-plan more this time. Well im wishing you the best of luck with your next one. I thought your Fifi & Roxy has a c-section?

When one comes into heat completely seperate her form the rest straight away this might not bring the rest in as well although you have at least another 5-7 months to get your self sorted again


----------



## CudasMom (Dec 22, 2009)

I agree you have to start somewhere, professionals were not born that way, they started somewhere too but its not for everyone, you have to really love it to keep going through the heartbreaking times. Whatever reason you want to breed is your business and i don't think its anyones right to judge someone else. Were here to help not judge. I think if someone doesn't like the type of dogs a person produces then don't buy from them but don't judge them either, a person has the right to do what makes them happy. The only time when i have a problem with some breeders is if they do not take care of the dogs and that is just cruel.


----------



## omguthrie (Oct 13, 2009)

I know you are having some real emotional issues but please please don't breed these girls again on their next heat. The breeders I know will give their girls a year or so between litters so she recovers and you can see how the puppies turn out to make sure you want to breed that girl again. 

Remember that you should be breeding to better the breed. In my opinion you should have shown them first so you know that they are breedworthy and will add positive traits to the gene pool. I really hope they have all their health checks (knees and such) done and certified. 

Olivia


----------



## Vivid (Jul 23, 2009)

Is there an update on the pups?


----------



## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

What a time of it you've had. I am sorry for the loss of this wee one. How is the mum now ? you are probably at the vet or very busy. Just wanted to check in and see how things were. chin-up, all you can do is keep taking steps in the right direction. Hope things are better this week.

xoxo


----------



## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

omguthrie said:


> I know you are having some real emotional issues but please please don't breed these girls again on their next heat. The breeders I know will give their girls a year or so between litters so she recovers and you can see how the puppies turn out to make sure you want to breed that girl again.
> 
> Remember that you should be breeding to better the breed. In my opinion you should have shown them first so you know that they are breedworthy and will add positive traits to the gene pool. I really hope they have all their health checks (knees and such) done and certified.
> 
> Olivia


i agree with every thing you say! knowing the breed standards is a major part in breeding, so showing you dogs would benefit you to see if they meet the standards. I dont mean to sound like a chi snob because im not at all and i can only see you dogs for you banner, but i personally wouldn't breed them for show as there muzzles are on the long side. its always good to have a mentor who show and breeds to teach you what they look for in the ring. 
xxx


----------



## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

I hope things are continuing to go well for this mom & pups. I'm sorry you've had such bad luck with your females...  I hope next time (if you choose to breed them again) things go a bit more smoothly!


----------



## xxxxdeedde (Jul 3, 2008)

Lou_lou said:


> i agree with every thing you say! knowing the breed standards is a major part in breeding, so showing you dogs would benefit you to see if they meet the standards. I dont mean to sound like a chi snob because im not at all and i can only see you dogs for you banner, but i personally wouldn't breed them for show as there muzzles are on the long side. its always good to have a mentor who show and breeds to teach you what they look for in the ring.
> xxx


I agree, you need to breed for the BREED STANDARD. Best way to do this is get your bitch in ring see if you win anything. If you don't you need to buy a new bitch to breed who IS breed standard or stop breeding!


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Small But Mighty said:


> I agree, you need to breed for the BREED STANDARD. Best way to do this is get your bitch in ring see if you win anything. If you don't you need to buy a new bitch to breed who IS breed standard or stop breeding!


Sorry but ugh!!!!! I am not a fan of bad breeding. But I just totally don't agree that they have to be show dogs to be bred. There are people who would love a pet chi that can't afford to pay show dog prices. Maybe they don't want to adopt from a shelter for one reason or another. I have adopted from a shelter and it just didn't work, dogs were scared around my children. I used to have a chi I bought as a pup and he was great!! I will always buy puppies from now on.

My pom was $1,000. And that is not even a LOT, she is not show quality because of her being merle. She has great champion lines. Tons of people couldn't afford $1,000 dollars on a dog, and that doesn't mean they couldn't afford to take care of a dog. What is wrong with buying a $300-$500 chi that doesn't have champions in it's blood line? NOTHING.

ETA: I do agree though that all testing should be done before breeding.


----------



## xxxxdeedde (Jul 3, 2008)

TinyGiant said:


> Sorry but ugh!!!!! I am not a fan of bad breeding. But I just totally don't agree that they have to be show dogs to be bred. There are people who would love a pet chi that can't afford to pay show dog prices. Maybe they don't want to adopt from a shelter for one reason or another. I have adopted from a shelter and it just didn't work, dogs were scared around my children. I used to have a chi I bought as a pup and he was great!! I will always buy puppies from now on.
> 
> My pom was $1,000. And that is not even a LOT, she is not show quality because of her being merle. She has great champion lines. Tons of people couldn't afford $1,000 dollars on a dog, and that doesn't mean they couldn't afford to take care of a dog. What is wrong with buying a $300-$500 chi that doesn't have champions in it's blood line? NOTHING.
> 
> ETA: I do agree though that all testing should be done before breeding.




WHAT?... Are you kidding me? So you believe that everyone should breed regards of lines, standard etc. 
You should always breed to better the breed. If you want to show then you need to breed best you can!


----------



## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

she did say that she wanted to start showing, so she does need to breed to breed standards, and to any chihuahua clubs rules if she wishes to join any (recommended if showing)
there is nothing wrong with breeding for pets, but half the time pet breeders dont know the standards and thats when you end up with dogs like my Baby who was keeped in a tiny cage as no one wanted her because they didnt like her ears. (tho i got her from a closing down puppy farm) 
if you love the breed them you will stick to the standards, and show breeders usuly charge a lot less for there dogs that places like epupz!


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Small But Mighty said:


> WHAT?... Are you kidding me? So you believe that everyone should breed regards of lines, standard etc.
> Its selfish to breed for 'pet'. You should always breed to better the breed.


I most certainly do not think EVERYONE should breed. There are plenty that should not be breeding. But see above where I said that not everyone can afford "show" prices. Does that mean that they shouldn't have a dog because every dog has to be show quality?

And I take back what I said about my pom not being show quality, she actually has wonderful conformation so far, and in the US there have been merle winners. I just don't know anything about showing, so does that mean I shouldn't breed her because i'm not a show person?


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

What's epupz? A website to buy dogs?


----------



## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

yes epupz is the worst site to buy dogs from, the prices on there for chis can range up to £2000 for a 'tea cup' chihuahua, all the show people i know who breed and sell what isnt quite good enough for the ring sell £600 to £800 for a boy and £700 to £900 for a girl.
if you dont know anything about showing how do you know what her conformation is like? judges look for more than a correct bite and level topline


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Holy smokes is all I can say to THIS thread :-( Any updates on mom and the remaining pups hun? My thoughts are with you and your lil ones xoxoxox


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> yes epupz is the worst site to buy dogs from, the prices on there for chis can range up to £2000 for a 'tea cup' chihuahua, all the show people i know who breed and sell what isnt quite good enough for the ring sell £600 to £800 for a boy and £700 to £900 for a girl.
> if you dont know anything about showing how do you know what her conformation is like? judges look for more than a correct bite and level topline


Because the breeder knows showing, some of her dogs are show dogs, she told me so. My husband actually wants me to get into showing, not pepper but just someday have a show dog. It would require a lot of traveling though and I have children so I just could not do that right now.

My point is though that in MY opinion I don't think only champions need to be bred.

Now yes if you have a line with horribly long snouts and jackrabbit legs, you probably shouldn't keep breeding in that line. My main concern is with the health of the dogs. Pepper will have all testing done before I would consider breeding her, and at this point I don't even know if she will get big enough to breed.


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

I wish the op would update this thread. I thought I saw her post in another thread today. I hope everything is ok .


----------



## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

sorry but no one can guarantee that any dog no matter the breed will be good for show by the time they are 6 months. anything can go wrong. you pup is far to young to tell yet.
as for getting into showing and not being able to do it right now... you cant just jump into a show ring, you need to train you dog to stand have have strangers go over it and learn how to actually show a pom, i was attending training 2 years with my girl before i got perry and now i go training 2 times a week and a show at the weekend.

and your right about not having to breed 2 champions to get a good dog, look at bramerita naught but nice she is possibly closest to perfect a chi will get and she was from chis that were nothing special (but they were to breed standards  ).


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> sorry but no one can guarantee that any dog no matter the breed will be good for show by the time they are 6 months. anything can go wrong. you pup is far to young to tell yet.
> as for getting into showing and not being able to do it right now... you cant just jump into a show ring, you need to train you dog to stand have have strangers go over it and learn how to actually show a pom, i was attending training 2 years with my girl before i got perry and now i go training 2 times a week and a show at the weekend.
> 
> and your right about not having to breed 2 champions to get a good dog, look at bramerita naught but nice she is possibly closest to perfect a chi will get and she was from chis that were nothing special (but they were to breed standards  ).


I never said she guaranteed it, nope she never did, but she is possible show prospect. That doesn't really matter to me though, I searched long and hard and knew exactly what I wanted before I got her. I wanted the tiny teddy bear face, short legs, and full coat. I looked at her parents and other parents in the pedigree and pretty much chose her before she was born. I'm just so excited to get her, breed, show, I don't care I just want the sweet little girl to be part of our family.

ETA: and of course, health throughtout the pedigree...lol. :daisy:


----------



## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

TinyGiant said:


> I never said she guaranteed it, nope she never did, but she is possible show prospect. That doesn't really matter to me though, I searched long and hard and knew exactly what I wanted before I got her. I wanted the tiny teddy bear face, short legs, and full coat. I looked at her parents and other parents in the pedigree and pretty much chose her before she was born. I'm just so excited to get her, breed, show, I don't care I just want the sweet little girl to be part of our family.
> 
> ETA: and of course, health throughtout the pedigree...lol. :daisy:


i cant argue with that last comment  hahaha


----------



## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

Getting a bit heated here. LOL, 

Firstly I aggree that people have to start somewhere with breeding and even if a bitch is plain it doesn't mean that that the puppies will be providing you get a decent stud dog - don't just go to the cheapest or the nearest. 

You need to look on what needs improving on your bitch. I always say to go to the best dog you can afford - don't forget many of the show dogs are £300 - £700 for a stud therefore if a dog is only £100 you need to ask yourself why.

Louise it relatively new to showing and perhaps said things that a lot of people may be thinking and yes, in theory she is correct, you need to breed from a bitch who is near to the breed standard as possible.

I think the main point is to try and improve on what you already have.


----------



## KayC (May 3, 2005)

Let's please keep this thread on track. It has gotten way off track. I don't want to close it because I am quite concerned about the OP and her dogs/pups and want her to post updates. So please let's keep it to that.


----------



## mad dog woman (Oct 29, 2006)

I want to know what's happening to the pregnant girl and little chance too...... xxxx lets not stoop to that level as this forum is important to a lot of people lets keep it nice PLEASE x


----------



## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

As Zoeys Mom and Mad Dog Woman have said this thread is about the pregnant dog and pups - I too hope that they are doing well and am awaiting an update from the original poster.


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

mad dog woman said:


> I want to know what's happening to the pregnant girl and little chance too...... xxxx lets not stoop to that level as this forum is important to a lot of people lets keep it nice PLEASE x


I think Chance died? Is that correct?


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Yes she said earlier he died .


----------



## Terri (Aug 21, 2009)

Oh no Chance died?
That is so sad, poor baby.
R.I.P little one. xxx


----------



## chideb (Jan 29, 2008)

I am so confused.. I thought that Chance was doing well since Roxy had accepted him and was taking good care of him?? This was the last update I remember seeing below: Did I miss an update?

"Hi everyone said i would keep you updates so here goes. Fifi is doing really well after her c section you would not even know she had it apart from her nasty wound. And the really good news is Roxy has totally excepted little baby boy to be hers so he has a new mummy all the milk he needs and a big cuddle. I am so pleased have a constant grin on my face. She is a brilliant new mummy and has not left him since she has decided to take him on. The only thing I am worried about is he might not have any fur left the amount of cleaning he is getting lol.
So smiles alroudn and thank you again everyone for your love support and well wishes it has paid off.
All our Love
Roxy, Fifi, Princess, Bambi and Bella and new baby Chance"


----------



## Terri (Aug 21, 2009)

Yeah i looked back in this thread too and couldnt see anything about the baby boy dying either?
Nothing in rainbow bridge aswell.
Where did she say this?


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Oh thank goodness!! I think I had him confused with the other puppy that she tried to tube feed that died. The premature one? I thought she referred to him as Chance. I must have had that confused. So Sorry!!!!

I hope she comes back and gives us an update. I think all of us are so concerned and worried and want to know how things are going.


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Oh oops sorry! Yes I got him confused with the little one that was born premature and passed away. 

Sorry everyone!


----------



## Terri (Aug 21, 2009)

Oh thank goodness for that!
Hope she comes back on soon to update too.


----------



## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

Okay now don't go confusing me girls...lol

How is everything tonight ? Maybe you are catching a bit of sleep. I will check in the morning..time difference.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

wow so much has happened and i seemd to have missed all the breeding discussions man i shouldn thave done work last night lol i didnt even get on here!  Well i pe everythign is ok now x


----------

