# The vets once again



## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Trying to find the vets was a nightmare, so much heavy traffic and the vets was not on the road of the post code given, Had to stop and ask two people who wanted to chat.. I don't have time to chat I tell them but they ignore me so I had to ignore them and just drive off...

Finally found the vets only to arrive and be kept sitting waitng for 15min,, so much for havng to be there for a certain time... the staff were ignorant and miserable which made me feel uncomfortable.

However the nurse that called me in for Jake was lovely which is important. Trying not to clock watch or worry and I have to phone between 2.30 and 3pm.

When I go to collect him I find out just what needs operating on.. hope its not his hips..


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

Try to relax Deme. You got him there and that was the important part..cranky office workers and silly people who don't give good directions don't matter. So you have a bit of a wait before you go back for him. What did you do in the mean while ??


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## Fizzy Chihuahuas (Mar 8, 2010)

Oh no , that's a shame 

I too hope Jakes hips don't need an operation , bless him ..


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## rache (Nov 10, 2009)

He'll be ok Dawn, hes a strong lad.

Hope the results come back ok.

Lots of luck Jake xx


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Dunno what to do to pass the time, house work is boring but I could sort a few things out and keep looking at breeders on here to see if I can find a sister or brother for Jake.

I think because today its x-rays I am more or less okay,but when it comes to the day of his first operation "Gulp" I'll be a pain in the backside whining for him.. 

I don't like the idea of him having a general but its important this is all done so that he has a good life not a painful one.

The house is soooooo quiet without Jake around.


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

Deme said:


> Dunno what to do to pass the time, house work is boring but I could sort a few things out and keep looking at breeders on here to see if I can find a sister or brother for Jake.
> 
> I think because today its x-rays I am more or less okay,but when it comes to the day of his first operation "Gulp" I'll be a pain in the backside whining for him..
> 
> ...


 Oh it's a horrible time the "Waiting" all you do is watch the clock,feel you should be doing something but can't be bothered.I hope all goes ok today


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Well I have loads of good stuff that I need to sell via ebay and its just been sitting and sittign so I have been sorting all that out and also I have loads of magazines on Carriage Driving and Horsemanship so have sorted them out ready to see if they will sell.

Haven't took pics of anything yet but I'm tired so came downstairs for a rest and a chat with you guys. Amazing to see the time..its 2.05pm so only 25 min to go before I can phone the vets to see how Jake is, I've not heard from them so thats good should mean no complications.

Its way too quiet still, I can't wait to go and collect him and give him big cuddles. I was told when first making the booking that I'd be picking him up at 4.30pm but am hoping when I call at 2.30pm they say I can collect him straight away.

How on earth did I survive for 9 years without a dog to love, I'm lost after 5 min without Jake...


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I'm really sorry about Jake =( 

Worrying about our babies is really tough. I don't know what I would do if mine were in a bad way, and she has been limping lately as well.

I'll say a little prayer for him...hope things turn out okay.


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

They say if the vet hasn't phoned then usually things have gone okay, so I checked my phone and nothing... Just 15 min to go and I can phone


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Just phoned vets and been told Jake is still sleepy but he's okay, won't know anything else till I go to collect him and been told I can't do that till 4.30pm... 


But but ..... that's another 2 HOURS.... :nshocked1:


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

It is good that they are keeping him to keep an eye on him anyway. I am sure that he was thrilled to see you at 4:30. Let us know how he is.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

OH Deme, I will be waiting with you and keep checking back to see if there is any news. I'm not good at being patient either. I would be a nervous wreck waiting to pick up Brody so I know how you feel. I hope you get GOOD NEWS when you pick him up. Will be waiting to hear.


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## chideb (Jan 29, 2008)

Prayers being said for Little Jake.. Deb


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## QUIGLEY'S MOM (Jan 12, 2010)

Hug him for us all when you go collect him. We are all thinking about him!


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## pam6400 (Oct 5, 2008)

Can't wait to hear the news..... Hugs being sent your way.


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## FireFox (Jun 4, 2009)

Hope you'll be getting some good news after his X-rays. Fingers crossed


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## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

All of us here are praying for JAke im sure hes fine!  Hes a big strong boy! He'll pull though nice and quickly just for you! Love My CheekyChihuahuasxx


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## msmadison (Jul 6, 2009)

any news on Jake??


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Sorry I am just getting my head around everything, the good news is that Jake's hips are fine.

The bad news his legs are a mess.

Looking at the leg it should be straight from the hip through the knee to the foot

Imagine your looking at your dog face on 

The bone above the knee (femur) bevels out like a C shape and the bone under the knee (Tibia) bevels inwards so his leg is like a S shape.

This means not only does his Knee Cap fall out but the angles where the bones meet are also out.

So the proceedure for both legs is that they are going to cut out a piece of cartridge from the knee socket, cut out some bone and then replace the cartridge' then they need to cut away some bone from the tibia and place one maybe two pins in to help straighten the point where the joints connect. As for the curvature in the bones at this stage the vet does not want to do anything as it means cutting the bone in half, shaping it and pinning it again. A very big major operation and thats four bones that would need cutting in half.

So now Jake has to be kept quiet, no walks, no jumping up, no fiesty play, oh gawd Jake is soooo extravert and excitable.. gonna have my work cut out. I need to get his crate back out so I can keep him from jumping onto the sofa when I am out the room.

The first operation on hos right leg is scheduled for Friday 26th and he will need to stay overnight, over night god that is gonna kill me.. then hopefully 8 weeks later his right leg will be strong enough for them to operate on the left leg followed by another 8 weeks rest.

This is gonna be a hard 4 months.

This makes me really angry, why do breeders think of nothing but making money with no regard to what the animals have to endure.

What if I hadn't seen Jakes leg lock that day, he could have gone on for months without me knowing and ended up crippled. Now I think what about if he has sisters and brothers what is their outcome.

The vet says these breeders upset him as he sees so many dogs with these problems but usually they are older often the damage sometimes unrepairable. He said it was good I brought Jake in immediately and the operations should prove good results.

His age and health will help him loads.

It is just gone 9.15pm and I think the wooziness is wearing off as Jake is wanting to play and I'm ready for bed.

I look at him now and tears hit me as I am thinking " My poor lad, you have no idea what is gonna happen to you" he is so oblivious and I love him so much,

Just being in the vets sitting on the chair waiting for Jake was gut wrenching, I just wanted him in my arms. My name was called and I expected to walk into the consultant room to see Jake but it was only the vet to talk me through everything then I had to go and sit down again and wait... god that was torture and I have many many visits to the vet over the next 4 months.

Jake and I thank everyone so much for such caring and thoughtful messages, I dare say I'll be pouring my heart out to you more and more as the months go on..

Thank you all 

Deme x x x


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## Ember (Aug 7, 2009)

oh dear 
you must be going through hell right now.
thank goodness you spotted the problem and did something about it as soon as you did.
poor Jake and poor you.
*sends hugs and best wishes*


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

Sorry for such a rough day. It sounds like you did well to catch this early on. You are such a committed dog owner--Jake is very fortunate to have you. Glad to here that he is happy to be at home now. I have been thinking of you all day...hope you both get a nice sleep tonight.


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## *Chloe* (Feb 6, 2006)

i am sorry  wishing u and Jake all the best


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Just want to clarify when I say why do breeders think of nothing but making money with no regard to what the animals have to endure. I am refering to BSB not the decent ones that really do help keeping Chi's healthy.

Jake is bouncing all around the room, he loves his Winalot heart treats that he got from his SB and I have sealed the bag and he is trying to work out how to open it... lol, 

He is really gonna be hard to keep quiet, wish he could sit quiet and watch a Disney movie like 101 Dalmations lol


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## chideb (Jan 29, 2008)

Likewise, Jake has been on my mind all day.. I am so very thankful that his hips are good. Even though the operation is very serious, thank goodness he is young, otherwise healthy, and has a mom like you. You both will remain in my prayers. Blessings, Deb


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm confident that Jake is getting the best of care from you and your vet and that everything will work out the way it is supposed to. Thanks for the update! I would have a very hard time keeping Brody still so I know how hard that will be for you! Our rambunctious boys!


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## lynx8456 (Feb 26, 2009)

I feel so horrible for you and Jake. I will be praying for both of you thru the up coming weeks. I can only imagin the pain and anguish you must be feeling right now. I wish there was something I could say to comfort you but since I know nothing will make you feel better right now I can only give this advice think positive and stay upbeat for Jake as chihuahuas are very sensitive and they can sense when there owners are upset and sad. Channel as much positive energy to Jake as possible during the upcoming weeks so he feels that everything will be ok. All the best to both you and your little man. Keep us updated and kiss Jake for me Jasper and Hannah.


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## MoochiBaby (Sep 12, 2009)

I don't understand why you are rushing into surgery? This friday is in a few days. Have you thought about other options? Maybe try a good homeopath? I know there are tons of them in England. Moochi also has LP and the vet wanted to operate on her right there right then. That was back in December. Moochi was also born with bow legged stance (c shaped legs like you described). So far she hasn't luxated since December. I just hope you would try other none invasive options rather than surgery as the first option. I mean even with surgery, it is not a guarantee that this will solve this problem. Also don't forget there is about a good few months of physical theraphy to strengthen the legs and tons of money to fix it! 

I am not trying to criticize, I am just concern that most people think that LP can't be solved without surgery and that surgery is the only option. 

Sorry if I came across too harsh, that's not my intention.


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Moochibay no I don't think your critizing, we all have our concerns and try to help where and when we can. 

Homeopathy is also not a guarantee and there is a big debate going on with the NHS right now, It is stated that homeopathy has not had any testing to prove it does all it says and the argument with the NHS is that millions is spent on homeopathy that could be spent on proceedures that are proven to work. I have used homeopahty remedies on my horses but not for extensive things like LP.

The way I think, is that saying over time the bones could get stronger and heal themselves would be better than surgery concerns me as words like "could", "maybe" etc are not guaranteed just like you say surgery may not guaranteee anything so goes both ways. If I went the homeopathy route and Jakes knees got worse causing more pain and discomfort and he had to undergo surgery after all I'd never forgive myself. 

Jakes Knees haven't luxated recently that I know of but it could have happened when he is out of my site like in the garden or upstairs and the whole luxation can last seconds. What I am saying here is that though I haven't seen it doesn't mean it didin't happen.

I think if Jake was at Stage 1 I would contemplate waiting a bit but he is stage 2 going into stage 3 which is more serious.

Also Jakes legs are not just bowed in C shape through the hips the actual bones form a S shape which has already knocked the bone structure out of line putting more strain on the knees.

I have known about this for a few weeks now so its not just an immediate decision. I have given this a lot of thought as you can expect Jakes happiness, health and welfare come first.

I hate the idea of surgery, Jake being given a general and being away from me for so long followed by 8 weeks of careful monitoring only to have another operation on his other leg and another 8 weeks monitoring.

I wish I could take this away and Jake be a perfectly healthy boy.

Thanks 

Deme x


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## msmadison (Jul 6, 2009)

Deme said:


> Moochibay no I don't think your critizing, we all have our concerns and try to help where and when we can.
> 
> Homeopathy is also not a guarantee and there is a big debate going on with the NHS right now, It is stated that homeopathy has not had any testing to prove it does all it says and the argument with the NHS is that millions is spent on homeopathy that could be spent on proceedures that are proven to work. I have used homeopahty remedies on my horses but not for extensive things like LP.
> 
> ...


I'm right there with you, Deme! Madi is having surgery tomorrow. I'm a mess about the whole thing - but it was the hardest decision i've had to make about her in a long time. I will be praying for you and Jake. Love to you both and we will ALL get through this.

I too wish I could take this away and Madi would be a normal, happy little girl. I guess we just have to do the best with the hand we're dealt, though!


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## BellaLina's Mom (Mar 16, 2007)

I'm so sorry. You're a loving and committed mommy, and Jake is fortunate to have you as his owner. Bella and I send hugs to you and Jake. We're here for you...


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

I hope all goes well for Madi, you must let me now how the operation went and how Madi is. Its not an easy decision to make having our loved ones go through surgery but when its their welfare at stake and the chance to live a pain free as possible life then these decisions have to be made.

Even my vet says he doesn't like to operate if its not necessary but he thinks it is what Jake needs. I know some will say that vets will say anything but I really do believe these vets have the dogs interest first.

If the vet had of just give a few details said Jake needed surgery I may have looked for a second opinion but this vet showed me the two x-rays, explained them in extensive detail, then showed me a model of a dogs leg and again extensively showed me what was going to happen during the surgery.

He spent a very long time talking to me and asked every so often if I was understanding everything and then asked if I had any questions. So yes I trust this vet 100%.

I am taking Jakes lovely new Red Blanket with him that he got for Valentines Day and two of his favourite toys. I wish I could stay and sleep in a room with him. 

My heart is with Madi and I hope she sails through her operation.

Love and hugs from Jake and Deme x x x


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

msmadison said:


> I'm right there with you, Deme! Madi is having surgery tomorrow. I'm a mess about the whole thing - but it was the hardest decision i've had to make about her in a long time. I will be praying for you and Jake. Love to you both and we will ALL get through this.
> 
> I too wish I could take this away and Madi would be a normal, happy little girl. I guess we just have to do the best with the hand we're dealt, though!


Sending good luck for Madi tomorrow,hope all goes well for you both X X


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

If the dog is young and health and good outcomes are to be anticiapted--surgery is a good option. Jakes perdicament is that he has other structural challenges also if he doesn't have the operation the curve of his leg bones is going to make the LP much more severe. 

Madi has had a rough go of it with the LP. I hope that both of these well adored pups come through this without a bother and by the summertime this will all be a distant memory.


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Thanks Rubia what you say are really thoughtful kind words. Your right with Jake this is just not the usual LP but other factors of his skeletal frame come into consideration.

I wish it was just a simple straight forward LP but having to have his Tibia cut and pinned as well is scary. Id this proceedure isn't carried out the vet said that the likely hood of Jake being in severe pain and discomfort in a few years is very high.

The vet is a highly trained vet surgeon and the top vet in the surgery so I am really pleased it is him that is doing the operation on Jake. 

I just wish it was July.....


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## MoochiBaby (Sep 12, 2009)

> Homeopathy is also not a guarantee and there is a big debate going on with the NHS right now, It is stated that homeopathy has not had any testing to prove it does all it says and the argument with the NHS is that millions is spent on homeopathy that could be spent on proceedures that are proven to work. I have used homeopahty remedies on my horses but not for extensive things like LP.


Ok, so there is a 50/50 chance that homeopathy could work or couldn't. Just like everything in life, there are no guarantees, but at least homeopathy is none invasive. Once you put your dog under the knife there is no turning back. The body is a miraculous thing, it has the potential to heal, why not give it a chance? I mean don't rule surgery out, but don't let it be the first option. If everything fails, even homeopathy, he is still a young pup and anytime he goes into surgery, he will still recover much faster than an older dog. He still has time. You said Jake was diagnosed earlier this month, that's only 3 weeks, that's a huge decision to make in a 3 weeks span, in my opinion. 



> The way I think, is that saying over time the bones could get stronger and heal themselves would be better than surgery concerns me as words like "could", "maybe" etc are not guaranteed just like you say surgery may not guaranteee anything so goes both ways. If I went the homeopathy route and Jakes knees got worse causing more pain and discomfort and he had to undergo surgery after all I'd never forgive myself.


With the right food, plenty of exercise, and a helping hand, his bones will heal. If for some reason it doesn't heal within the next few months, having the surgery is still not too late. Jake isn't even a year old, give his body a chance before writing it off. 



> I think if Jake was at Stage 1 I would contemplate waiting a bit but he is stage 2 going into stage 3 which is more serious.


Moochi's left leg is a stage 3 and her right is a stage 2. So I am coming from a similar place. But her knees have healed, she is no longer luxating. Today I took her on a 2 mile hike and she did wonderful, we didn't even stop for rest and she did it all by herself. This is the same dog that the vet in December told me that she will progress to a stage 4 soon if I don't operate on her immediately. 

Once again I am not criticizing your decision. I know your concerns are coming from the right place, I just wish you would give his body a little more credit. Also I must say that perhaps from my upbringing that I am skeptical about allopathic medicine. My mom has always told me that allopathic doctors are no better than a mechanic and that they treat the body as if it is a car and that you can just replace parts without giving it a chance to heal on its own. I do believe that allopathic medicine has done wonders for medicine but I think we put too much trust in them and not enough trust in the power of natural healing.


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## Rico's Mom (Feb 21, 2009)

That's really wonderful and encouraging news! .... what did you do for Moochi and how much time did it take for her to improve?


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## MoochiBaby (Sep 12, 2009)

Well, I noticed Moochi improved tremendously since I put her back on raw after she was diagnosed with LP. Within two weeks on raw, she no longer limped or lifted her legs up. But her knee caps would pop in and out once in a while. By last month her knee caps would pop in and out at most about 4 times a month. Since contacting a homeopathic vet, she has been on glucosamine/vitamin c for the past month and her knee caps haven't popped out yet. Next month I will try homeopathy to see if that would strengthen her knees even more. We will also explore acupuncture later on. But like I said, LP can never be cured but there are things you can do to help the body adjust and prevent deterioration. Right now Moochi is living with her disability and it hasn't slow her down one bit.


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

MoochiBaby; said:


> With the right food, plenty of exercise, and a helping hand, his bones will heal. If for some reason it doesn't heal within the next few months, having the surgery is still not too late. Jake isn't even a year old, give his body a chance before writing it off.
> 
> With regards to Homeopathy you can't quote saying "his bones will heal" and then in the same paragraph say "if it doesn't heal" that's contradicting yourself and no one not even a qualified Homeopath could guarantee anything.
> 
> ...


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

Deme-- I don't think anyone meant to critique Jakes plan of care. You jake has very serious complications, the way his bones are shaped (and we are talking about four very large leg bones here) will have an impact on his LP. you have several vet opinions, x-rays and studies--enough to go on. If it was a straight-forward LP and nothing else maybe try something else. But it isn't--you have gone and had everything checked and rechecked. For the good of Jake's quality of life--it sounds like this is the best plan. Have the surgeon take care of what he can. You know how to help rehab and animal--you work with animals everyday. The prognosis for Jake is fantastic. It will be difficult but you can do it.

People are offering up their antedotes, in case it helps to hear about what another chi went through. We have seen a fair bit of LP issues here lately.
Please don't let it get you all upset Non one here wants to cause someone who is stressed about their pet's health anymore problems.

Jake is still young, we all know that the young heal far better than the old . 
he is in good hands, and you both have a pile of friends here who want nothing but the best for both of you !!

So chin-up --it is tough but you are doing what needs to be done.


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## MoochiBaby (Sep 12, 2009)

I think you took it the wrong way. Again I am not criticizing your decision, but think surgery is very invasive and a huge decision. As for the contradicting comment, all I have to say is. I "think" his bone will heal, but if for some reason if it doesn't, you still have the surgery option. He is only 9 months old, not 9 years old, so he has plenty of time. 

At the end of the day it is just a suggestions. 

If I offended you, I apologize. Do what you feel right. I will only offer my opinion, if people inquire about it.


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Hi Moochibaby

I just felt that you were saying I hadn't looked into things long enough or thought about options and felt you were pushing your views onto me rather than just giving an opinion on other options as you seemed so intent on homeopathy.

3 weeks may not seem long to some to consider an option but I have done a lot of research and asked hoards of questions and htought logn and hard about all of this.

I am vunerable at the moment as I am very worried and having Jake away over night is gonna be hell as he sleeps with me on the bed.

I worry about the operations, the risks, the recovery period, everything and probably worrying more than I should.

I do give Jakes body a lot of credit and that of his well being. I shudder everytime I see him jump about, dance on his hind legs and scurry around the house in case his knee comes out and he hurts himself.

Sometimes I tell myself "He's a dog let him play, stop molly cuddling him".

Theres not long now till tomorrow, I have the house to clean and my horse gear to sort out, so hoping that takes all day and then I just gotta get through the night and then finally go to pick him up on Saturday.

cheers all

Deme


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Deme, will be thinking of you all day tomorrow and Saturday. Can't wait until he's home again and back in your arms. I know how you love him. He is a lucky boy.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

We're all thinking of you and Jake.. if its any consellation my daughter is having an operation on both her legs at the same time in the summer.. i'm already freaking out something chronic about it.. so i guess in a way i'm saying i totally get your anxiety!!!


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

I took Jake out for a walk this morning knowing it will be his last for a while. He's sleeping now onhis new Cushion that he got from his SB he really does love it.

I have his blanket all ready and his toys to take tomorrow so that he has something with his scent on.

Wish it was Saturday afternoon....


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

Good idea about his blanket and things...I hope that the house cleaning gets you lost in something else tomorrow.


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

The state of the house I'll get lost in clouds of dust, I hate housework and usually only manage to hoover one room before it hits my lungs (the effort not the dust effects my lungs, it ain't that dusty lol) but gonna take it slow and steady.


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