# i think i found the right breeder this time :) plz check it out



## alyssa (Dec 23, 2006)

well im no expert, but this lady emailed me and she seemed really nice. i checked out the website and evreything seems good, not to mention her pups are just ADORABLE! 

http://hillbrooks.homestead.com/index.html

but, im trying not to get my hopes up, you guys probably know alot more about breeders than i do. and i would hate to support bad breeders  . 


plz just check out the website and let me know what you think. I really want a healthy, happy puppy that fits the chi standard and i dont wanna settle for anything less

thanks a bunch,
Alyssa

and thanks for dealing with all this newbie stuff


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## *Tara* (Jun 15, 2006)

they look alright id guess-i dont like it when people stud out their dogs though-that can put them at danger of getting a disease or whatnot...
she does have a garuntee-thats good  she also asks a decent amount of questions to the buyer(shows that shes not lookign to sell to just anyone)
and she says that the puppys are raised as part of the family-not in a kennel or whatever... and thats good for their development 
if you're able to go take a look at this place, see what kind of conditions the dogs/pups live in...and just talk to the breeder and get to know her and see if she seems genuinely concerned about the well being of her dogs/pups... she should ask you lots of questions-that shows she cares about her pups  and she should also tell you about the problems they can have(this is listed on her website though )
i didnt see anythign listed about neuter/spay contract-i could have missed it though...but this is a very important thing for breeders to have!! ...also, ask her why she charges more for the females-that shouldnt be...
umm, yah! good luck in your puppy search


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

their opening statment is great, they support AKC trials and seem to have strong support of breeding to standard.
their dogs also live in home, a VERY good thing 

their little stud winston is Gorgeous!

im a little curious as to why females cost more than males but its probably because theres no spay neuter contract, in breeding females are "worth" more than males, however it does worry me that theres no spay/neuter contract, this is something most good breeders will enforce.

i DO like their of interest page, nicley written and covers the basis of teacups and registration. and their aplication is nice.

ask about the spay neuter contract, its realy the only area that concerns me.


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## Sidech (Apr 3, 2006)

She looks okay but she's not into showing so there is no guarantee her dogs are the best they can be, although they mostly look close to standard. Her pedigrees show champions but how would you know for sure? Also, she says the puppies CAN be registered or are, which means she would sell you a non-registered dog for less money. No serious reputable breeder would do such a thing. Plus, as Tara says, ALL serious reputable breeders sell on a spay/neuter contract, which there is no mention of on her site. Since you mentioned you want a dog that is really true to the breed, if I were you, I would keep looking. She's not bad, but you can do a lot better. Good luck!


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## Katie (Apr 9, 2005)

I think they look good. I really don't know much about breeding or breeders though. I just always follow my heart  I'm wondering if the "perfect" breeder even exists lol 
I hope you find your baby soon. I know it will be worth the wait :wave:


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## CryBles (Aug 29, 2006)

I think she looks good.. some breeders may look good online.. but, then when you see the conditions in person.. it may not be so good...

my first chi I got .. ugh..the breeder said she could be "AkC" well.. I asked her if Crystals parents were "AKC" and she told me no.. soo.. I couldn't register her... She claimed Crystal came from "show dog" lines.. but, yet.. she had no mention of any of her breeding dogs being show dogs on her website.. not to mention.. she bred Crystal.. before she was a year old.. and she had to have a c-section... (which.. if the lady REALLY knew anything... she wouldn't have tried breeding Crystal.. after I got Crystal I asked the breeder some more questions because I was concerned about a few things.. and I found out that Crystals mother had to have a C-section... and CRystal had to be raised by hand.. that to me.. should have told the lady not to breed her knowing that she wasn't from a free whelping line) anywho..

I would check it out in person before you decide... and if you don't like what you see.. then I'd go somewhere else...


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

These dogs are not showing for conformation. I would *not* purchase from anyone with *CKC* registered dogs Any AKC dog can be shown does not make them to the standard. If I am purchasing it would be for Conformation. Championship in pedigree mean nothing especially if they are only in the the 4th & 5th generations. JMO


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

she actually DUAL registers her dogs so their AKC registerd AND CKC...
and quite honestly AKC isnt all its cracked up to be lately either, i had a frined get ahold of AKC paperwork for a pappillion litter of another friend and managed to get her very out of standard long haired chi (who looked like more like a pap) not only AKC registered as a pappillion but also breeding this dog and selling all the pups are AKC registered Pappillions.

ANY registry is only as good as the breeder submitting thepaperwork. CKC is of course not the best, but its better than any of the others out there. As i said, even AKC has its problems, and just because a breeder is using AKC dogs doesnt make them any better a breeder.

While i understand what your trying to say and agree all breeding dogs should be strongly to standard confirmation means NOTHING if the dog is from a bad breeder, is unhealthy, or has temperment issues...

Finding a good breeder is dificult because of those facts, you have to find a breeder who BALANCES everything.

ive seen gorgeous dogs in the ring, confirmationally perfect, they act great in the ring, but meet them one on one and their personalities dont match their looks. The ONLY chihuahua ive ever been bitten by was a champion male just comming out of the ring, i stopped to shake his handlers hand and the dog jumped and took my calf into his mouth.
as a behaviourist i knwo sighns to look for, he showed no warning sighns, no posture change, his ears were perk and his tail was carried happily, he didnt growl or bare tooth or even pull away.
Hed bared 4 litters at that point, all the puppies had shown dominance behaviours and both dog and people agression.

AKC registration and confirmation mean nothing if the dog is tempermentally unsound!

and champions mean nothing in the pedigree for 16 generations, 2 champions can and will produce mabe 1 show pup in each litter, the rest pet babies!

sorry ranting, just trying to make clear, confirmation and registration mean nothing, some of the best breeders taking the best care of their dogs and breeding right that ive met breed some GORGEOUS CKC registerd dogs that could easily take any AKC reg dog in the ring.
while ive also met AKC reg breeders who are quite simply back yard breeders using AKC and Champions as selling points to charge more.

focus less on registration and more on the dogs themselves! visit the place, visit the parents, meet the breeder and all the dogs,ask LOTS of questions...you want to ensure that the breeder is not only breeding for looks but for sound temperment and health too!


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

foxywench said:


> she actually DUAL registers her dogs so their AKC registerd AND CKC...
> and quite honestly AKC isnt all its cracked up to be lately either, i had a frined get ahold of AKC paperwork for a pappillion litter of another friend and managed to get her very out of standard long haired chi (who looked like more like a pap) not only AKC registered as a pappillion but also breeding this dog and selling all the pups are AKC registered Pappillions. *This is a FRIEND? Sorry anyone doing anything to mess with the lines in my breed would be reported by me friend or not.*
> 
> ANY registry is only as good as the breeder submitting thepaperwork. CKC is of course not the best, but its better than any of the others out there. As i said, even AKC has its problems, and just because a breeder is using AKC dogs doesnt make them any better a breeder. *AGREED*
> ...


 
I see many a BYB pedigree with very well known exhibitors lines in them. I am pleased to say I have yet to see any of my lines in any. I thank my breeder for that. It can happen but I have yet to see hers and she has been breeding for many years. That to me means alot and makes me very proud to own her lines


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## Sidech (Apr 3, 2006)

alyssa said:


> well im no expert...
> 
> I really want a healthy, happy puppy that fits the chi standard and i dont wanna settle for anything less


Foxywench, your recommendation of going to see the breeder and asking questions is great for someone who knows about the breed and what to look for, but as Alyssa said, it's not the case for her. She has no way of knowing if the dogs she would be seeing would be close to standard or not and would be in no position to rate the competence of the breeder. That's why I think if she really wants a dog that is close to standard, her best bet, by far, is to go to a breeder who shows. Then she'd be sure her dog would be true to the breed (even though it doesn't mean the temperament would be perfect, that's a completely different issue).


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

Sidech said:


> Foxywench, your recommendation of going to see the breeder and asking questions is great for someone who knows about the breed and what to look for, but as Alyssa said, it's not the case for her. She has no way of knowing if the dogs she would be seeing would be close to standard or not and would be in no position to rate the competence of the breeder. That's why I think if she really wants a dog that is close to standard, her best bet, by far, is to go to a breeder who shows. Then she'd be sure her dog would be true to the breed (even though it doesn't mean the temperament would be perfect, that's a completely different issue).


.

Do not buy from anyone who is releasing pups under 12 weeks. 
I personally do not deal with co owning breeders or phenominal prices.
I researched many breeders and went to local shows spoke to them, read as much as I could on the breed. I purchased an eye for a dog and many other books to learn the structure. I researched health issues and genetic issues in the breed. I asked breeders if they had their dogs tested for patella's and eyes. If she is looking for a dog to show or pet quality from a *respected* established, exhibitor breeder. *call AKC and ask for breeders in your area, *DON"T go through the classifieds on their site anyone can list there. *Contact the Chihauha Club of Ameirca. *If you choose a show dog instead of pet quality take the dog to a judge of the breed or toys and have them evaluate the dog at a local show. If they say it is pet and can't be shown respectable breeders will take the dog back and refund or replace provided you ask and *have it in a contract*.


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## alyssa (Dec 23, 2006)

finding a breeder is really starting to rain on my parade. I meen with my other dog i went to the shelter, pointed, paid and thats it. I had a healthy, happy pet  i know its diffrent because hes not a purebred but still. THIS IS FRUSTRATING! Ok i just need to find me a healthy, happy chi puppy thats gonna look like a cute chi as an adult and im happy. I know im sounding childish but ive tried and tried and tried and at this point i just want a straight answer. Give me the website/number of your definition of a perfect breeder,one that does 100% of all the things you guys are telling me, and i really dont think this exsists, but hey its worth a shot. and i called AKC and all the good breeders in my area eether only breed once or twice a year and have waiting lists up to year 3000 or charge too much.. this is Miami, beleive me there are PLENTY of chi breeders, evrey1 has a chi. you look up the words teacup and miami on google and you'll get over 294032852578452 results. Its not that im settling, its that i really want a chi, i pass by petstores evrey day and i think " I COULD HAVE A CHI RIGHT NOW!" 
and i dont want to support petstores so i dont. but this is ridiculous.
AHAHDJHUIJFHI im just frustrated! I never thought getting a puppy was so hard!


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

Alyssa if you are looking for a pet quality chi (not a show chi) you can still find a good breeder. :wink: In my opinion you are never going to find a perfect breeder that breeds perfect chihuahuas. :wink:

If them being AKC registered is important to you it might be best to contact the AKC like Janie suggested and find some breeders that are close to you. 

Go with your gut and make sure you visit the house/conditions where the chihuahua is coming from. You don't have to find the "perfect breeder" to find a wonderful chihuahua.


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

IF you are planning to show or not I can refer you to my breeder. However if you are not going to show and take a pet chi you will not be able to breed it but can be assured you are going to get a sound chihuahua well worth what it will cost for something that you have no clue of the lines or health in the lines. We oppose to anyone that is going to breed a pet quality chihuahua as you can see she is extremely active in showing her prices are extremely reasonable for show dogs http://www.rafinachihuahuas.com/ there is one male available at this time a pet quality under Nursery I have his sister and here is the link for adults she is placing http://www.rafinachihuahuas.com/wishwell/adult.html


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

Wow, her chi's are gorgeous!  I especially love "Guns N Roses Spencer" awesome name :headbang:


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

Kari said:


> Go with your gut and make sure you visit the house/conditions where the chihuahua is coming from. You don't have to find the "perfect breeder" to find a wonderful chihuahua.


 
I can *assure you* Rafina Chihhuahuas, Barbabara Pendergrass home is clean and their living quarters are also.

I am not sure if I have but I will post my newest Rafina addition in pics thread


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## alyssa (Dec 23, 2006)

Im not planning to show, but rafinachi's has BEAUTIFUL DOGS!!!


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

she has pet ones when she breeds just keep an eye on her site or contact her via email when she has something she will contact you I believe its the wish list lol. I was finally able to get a second from her I swear by her lines it took me two years and it was a fluke I was goingot wait awhile and happend to visit her site as I often do and there was Lacey. I hesitated as I wanted to finish the first I had gotten Rafina Blaze O'Fire(Blaze). I couldn't help it I just kept going back for two days. I could not take my eyes off of her. Lucky for me I got to Barbara just in time lol she would have been gone. I am done for now Would love to get another Rafina but I want to finish and get the championships on these two. I have to be fair to them and myself. Dealing with too many cuts quality time and love. I won't do that


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## *Tara* (Jun 15, 2006)

i agree with what was said about just going with your gut feelings... if you go to a place and the dogs are poorly cared for, the person seems like they only have $$$ in their eyes or whatever, chances are you SHOULDNT go to them, but if you go to a place and everythign seems great, chances are they have good inteneions  just ask whatever questions you can think of (maybe do some research about different illness's they can get) and if the person seems knowledgable, thats good.
the breeder i always recommend to everyone is members.shaw.ca/crystaljems .... shes amazing  she is in BC, Canada though... so youd have to see if flying is fesable or whatever else 
also, i do know she has puppies due this month..nothings posted yet, but when they're born and she has time she'll post them 

and back to what this thread is originally about.... those breeders do seem good, i wouldnt rule them out completly...just go visit the place and see what your impressions are... most breeders have a spay/neuter contract to protect their dogs from being over-bred or improperly bred...or whatever..... these people may still have beautifull dogs that are worthwhile 
good luck!(and kudos to you for trying to find a reputable breeder...far too many people dive in head first and do no research...i promise that in the end it willbe worth it  -i waited like 7months for my first lil guy!! it was painfull at the time-but now im glad that i took the time)


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

That breeder has merles and intends to breed them Sorry I won't deal with a merle breeder. *I love the markings*, However, too much controversey and too many health issues.They are NOT RARE! I will not have them in my lines There needs to be more testing and info on the merles. There is currently a petetion to have them eliminated from the AKC Chihuahua Standard. If I am not certain about the breed or lines, genetics and such and there is so much controversey over it I prefer to stay clear of it. I would not purchase from this party. To each his own.


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## *Tara* (Jun 15, 2006)

i believe that when proper care and research is done merle breeding can be wonderfull...its the irresponsible ones that ruin it for everyone... but as you said to each their own :tongue5:


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

There is no proper breeding of a merle at this time no research has been completed, other than being able to identify a dog without the markings is merle or not


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## alyssa (Dec 23, 2006)

plz lets not turn this into a merle debate lol to each his own, i personally think that merles are EXTREMELY beautiful and if a breeder is willing to take a chance with them, then they will.


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

actually there is LOTS of genetic reaserch and information on breeding merls, rember, while its still an uncommon coat colur in chis it is VERY common in many othe rbreeds and the precautions for ANY breed involvong the merl line is the same (and much the same as ANY ressessive to ressesive breeding.

it IS safe. unfortunatly too many people have given merle breeding a bad name by not reaserching breeding merles.

i personally think the pattern is beautiful, but i wouldnt own one, mostly because the merle pattern is a fairly reacent development and its suggested to get the coat pattern another breed must have been added to the chi lines.
however i do think if the dog is of correct type, wonderfull standard, great health and temperment, and the breeder is showing, and breeding the colour correctly (just as with blues!) then i dont see why its a problem.

i also agree, keep the origionally posted breeder in mind...her dogs are nice. why not ask WHY she doesnt show in confirmation...and why she doesnt have a spay neuter contract ect...

the other breeders posted also have gorgeous dogs...

whatever you do, as frustrating it can seem, dont fall for the quick fix of buying a pet shop puppy, its setting yourself up for heartach that would never have happend by taking time and being patient...


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

I never said I did not like them I do love the markings. I just prefer to stay awya from anything that can potentially cause problems, according to Merle breeders that are involved in some sort of studies with their merles. Especially one that had posted pictures and stories of her own venture with breeding merles and has now informed us of the outcome of some of her dogs. Issues can happen in any breed I just see no need to rock the boat with something of uncertainty. There is an issue of x breeding to get the markings. if some one were to give me one I would take it breed it no buy one no As much as I like the markings


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## *Tara* (Jun 15, 2006)

im gonna bring up one more topic(and hopefully not open a can of worms  ) but everyone says 'something had to of been blended into chihuahua lines to create merle'... the dachshound being one option...but where did THAT breed get its merle colouring??????it didnt just drop from the sky one day....lol!
anyways, i leave it at that....everyones opinions are very strong and no-ones gonna change their way of thinking.....


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## dolly'sgrandma (Nov 8, 2005)

Just wanted to say, I know how you feel Alyssa! I want another chi too (for my daughter), and since Dolly was rescued (and healthy and wonderful and we love her to death!), this is my first foray into breeders. I read all the posts on them here and my head spins. I know NOT to buy from a petstore, but if someone has a litter at home that they love and take care of, and all I want is a pet (I always spay and neuter)...a cute chi that is all chi, it's hard to just forget all that research.

That said, I haven't gotten one yet and I probably WILL spend a long, long time looking. SIGH!


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## dolly'sgrandma (Nov 8, 2005)

PS...my Aussie/Border is a merle (also a pound puppy). He is beautiful, but he definitely has health issues--it makes me shy from owning another merle. BUT, they are gorgeous, and he IS my big ol' baby.


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## *Tara* (Jun 15, 2006)

oh-one more thing... if a breeder does breed merles... ask them about their breeding practaces and what they do to prevent merle genetic problems... if they dont really answer or move onto a new topic, id pass on them.. but if they go into great detail about everything and explain everything to you, chances are theyve done their research 
oh, and merles arnt the only ones to have health problems dont forget  its jsut easy to pick on them becuase they're controversial and 'different' .... my guy has no problems and my breeder has never had a problem in breeding merles


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

doxies have had the merle colouration in thier coat frm their original lines of creation. the difference between the coat in other breeds and the coat in chis, is it was introduced in the beginning stages of developing the breeds, whereas with chis (who are thought to be fairly close to their ancestors) its been introduced later in the breeds status (after a standard was formed)
if that makes sense.

and yes, your right, other colours have health problems too, blue and chocolate (dilutes) are another example of coat colours that tends to have more health problems if not correctly bred.

unfortunatly, it REALY is all to do with how good the breeder is.
ive met merle dogs healty as anything, and ive met merle dogs sickly and with birth defects, the difference being the first examples were form good breeders, the later from bad. doesnt matter the breed...


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## *Tara* (Jun 15, 2006)

"unfortunatly, it REALY is all to do with how good the breeder is.
ive met merle dogs healty as anything, and ive met merle dogs sickly and with birth defects, the difference being the first examples were form good breeders, the later from bad. doesnt matter the breed..."
..exactly...


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## Katie (Apr 9, 2005)

foxywench said:


> doxies have had the merle colouration in thier coat frm their original lines of creation. the difference between the coat in other breeds and the coat in chis, is it was introduced in the beginning stages of developing the breeds, whereas with chis (who are thought to be fairly close to their ancestors) its been introduced later in the breeds status (after a standard was formed)
> if that makes sense.
> 
> and yes, your right, other colours have health problems too, blue and chocolate (dilutes) are another example of coat colours that tends to have more health problems if not correctly bred.
> ...



I've never done any sort of REAL research on the topic because well it doesn't matter to me since I don't breed or show but I never understood how colors exist. I get that you say merling always existed in dachshunds so is that the case for brindle, blues, chocolates etc in chis? 
I mean how do they know for sure where the colors came from? I'm always confused about that lol It's hard for me to tell who's actually telling the truth from theory because there are so much clashing "opinions" I guess. I don't think anyone.. or at least no one on this site knows 100% for sure where the merling color or any other color in chis came from. 

My poor Chloe has had horrible skin problems and allergies since a baby... Tyson is half bald and they're both "normal" chihuahua colors. So I guess when it comes down to it, to me, ANY color can have problems and you just don't know until you've lived and delt with it. I don't think a color pattern should hold anyone back because of certain "theories". If it's a person's personal choice then that's fine but I would never try and push anyone to avoid something that they like. Not that anyones doing this I'm just saying in general lol 

I love my merle boy and wouldn't trade him for the world. I am fully aware of his bad breeding but it's not his fault and well I knew I could give him a good home. My feelings are to go with your heart... if the chihuahua of your dreams exisits in a "bad" breeder then I say go for it. Just my personal opinions on the subject.


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

your exactly right, blue and chocolate are dilutes of the regular colours so likely came about from genetic mutation, the brindle was liekly introduced by one of the "breeds" used in the origional "finishing touches" of developing the chihuahua breed before the standard, or it could be naturally occuring (colour genetics always confused me)
all those colours have been documented in paintings of the breeds the chi supposedly decended from in artwork from the area. Merle however hasnt ever been documented in the breed untill relitivly reacently. which is why its belived it had to have been introduced relitivly reacently from a breed whos displayed the trait as a norm.

theres currently nothing confirmed for either argument and of course theres those for and against the colour being accepted as a standard colour in the chi standard...


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## *Tara* (Jun 15, 2006)

...also, even if merles were 'created' by breeding a chi with another breed.... they do conform to the standard...(obviously not ALL of them, not all dogs of any breed are standard) but standard merles DO exist... so even if someone did 'create' this colour they are 'real' chihuahuas....


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## alyssa (Dec 23, 2006)

http://www.enchantedchihuahuas.com/merlepage.html

well i was researching for merles and i found this  arent those just the CUTEST things you've ever seen?!?! lol i just wanna squish them, but then again all puppies are the cutest lol


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

:shock: Beautiful! :love5: Look at the fifth one down in the middle, it looks like a perfect line going down the face. I would swoop that little baby up. :love5:


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## Katie (Apr 9, 2005)

Oh my gosh! They are SO cute!!! I absolutely love merles :love5: 
The one with the line down their face is SO cool!


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## Lin (Jun 7, 2006)

Kari said:


> :shock: Beautiful! :love5: Look at the fifth one down in the middle, it looks like a perfect line going down the face. I would swoop that little baby up. :love5:


So would I! He's a beautiful color too.


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

now thats what i like to see, HEALTHY looking GORGEOUS chis, bred to standard, doesnt matter their colour, if there is something introduced into the breed ot get the colour, you cant tell form those chis 
that half and half longhaired chocolate merle is GORGEOUS!
!


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## rachel (Jun 16, 2006)

Kari said:


> :shock: Beautiful! :love5: Look at the fifth one down in the middle, it looks like a perfect line going down the face. I would swoop that little baby up. :love5:


Before I even saw your post that is what I was thinking! He is absolutely adorable!


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

He has the most unusual and awesome markings I've ever seen. :love5: I wish we could see a current pic of him. :love4:

I have a huge thing for tri-colors too. Check out the first little tri-color on this page
http://www.enchantedchihuahuas.com/soldnew.html

OMG how freaking cute is he? :shock: :love5:


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## CM Katie (Sep 28, 2005)

Kari that's so funny!!
I was just going to post that link!!


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## alyssa (Dec 23, 2006)

this breeder makes me want to buy every puppy she has! THEY ARE ADORABLE!  :foxes_207:


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## Katie (Apr 9, 2005)

I know!! I want one from her too! If I could just get ONE more!! lolol 
I say that everytime :wink:


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## Jen (Sep 13, 2005)

WOW are they cute


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

Katie 18 said:


> Kari that's so funny!!
> I was just going to post that link!!


Isn't he just precious! :love5:


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## dollhouse (Sep 20, 2005)

wow.. im really likeing that one too .. the brown one with blue eyes with the line down the face. But all the babies look pretty beautifull.We just got a new chi but I saved the page .maybe one day when we get a house well be able to get another chi to add to our family


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