# Seriously need help guys. Tillie is attacking Cookie & Lola



## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

Ok so Tillie came to me when she was already older. I haven't had her from a pup. She's attacking Lola and Cookie for no good reason. Tillie and Lola play and lick eachother all the time so they like eachother. They're always playing.

It used to just be if Lola would get on my bed when Tillie was there she'd just snap at her that was all. Now Tillie leaps onto her and tries to tear her throat out!!! She's very viscious and it starts very suddenly no warning at all. We can be in the living room and Cookie will be sat there minding his own business and she just suddenly leaps on him!!!.

There is no warning at all. It is very sudden and agressive. I pull her off and she still has Cookie/Lola in her mouth!!! And she struggles to get free and goes at them again!!!!

3 times she's started today. Once on poor old Cookie and twice on Low. I actually got bitten very badly on my arm today trying to get Tillie off Lola. I'd rather take the bite myself. 

This cannot go on. I won't have it. Poor Cookie is too old for this. 

I've read loads of stuff but can't really find out what I am supposed to do. I can't stop it before it starts because there is honestly no warning at all. She just is normal then next second she's fighting. It's not even over food.

At the moment what I am doing is getting her off as quickly as I can. Then telling her off in a stern voice. And placing her outside to cool off for 10 minutes.

I can't give her up because I love her to bits. I'd never be able to give her up. I cannot afford a trainer.

I need any help/advice you can give. 

Oh btw as some of you know Tillie is a very nervous dog. She wets herslf when scared and stuff. 

Please any advice is better than nothing.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I can't remember how long you've had Ms Tillie for, but I wonder if she is just finally comfortable enough to assert herself? 

Sometimes dogs become increasingly cranky or dominant because they are in pain, does Tillie have any changes to her health you might not be aware of? Sometimes if they are in pain they can lash out at the other dogs in your house.

It also could be she is nervous about Cookie getting older and weakening. Dogs like stability, if Cookie has historically been seen by her as top dog, but suddenly he is more weak than usual or declining, she could be feeling very insecure which can also be a cause of aggression.

Sorry I do not have any concrete answers but that was what crossed my mind when I read about what is happening. I hope you get it sorted soon.


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## jazzman (Apr 8, 2009)

Marie,

I have the same problem with Joie. He can get very aggressive out of the blue and has been that way his whole life. Of course Stella has slowed him down a little, as she's grown fed up a couple of times and went and sat on him.

A water bottle is a good thing to keep near by - spray or dunk her the minute she shows aggression. The time out is what is recommended, but it never seems to help with Joie. 

Though I haven't resorted to it, having lived with Joie for so many years, I must say I can understand that it can be the only answer in some situations - The Shock Collar.

I've always stayed away from it, but even my vet's assistant told me she had no other choice but to use it for an overly aggressive dog. It only took 2 or 3 shocks to break the behavior forever. 

I wish I had tried it on Joie when he was younger. He's too old now, and he doesn't bother Lola or Stella. Mateo can fend for himself.

IF Carlos was alive and if Joie was attacking him ( he never did for whatever reason) I would not hesitate for an instant. It's harsh, but it's a temporary harsness that puts an end to perpetual harshness.


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## jesicamyers (Dec 27, 2010)

There was an episode of ceasar milan with an agressiive chihuahua. A few of the pointers was to stay as calm as possible and do not yell at tillie. If another person is available to help, have that person sit or stand nearby with the other dogs. Praise, pet and love the other dogs. When tillie gets upset, ignore her and gently push her to the side. Do not correct the negative behavior any more than excluding her from the attention. Praise and pet the dogs who show good behavior. One of the other things he did was gently force the aggressive dog on his side, laying on the floor. Do not use too much force, just enough to keep her on her side until she calms down. Supervise the dogs at all times, continue praising good behaviors and try not to react with tension toward the bad behaviors.


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## Angalla (Jan 27, 2011)

I know it's very upsetting when dogs fight & your instinct is to go in & prise them apart,
but not only do you risk getting bitten, it reinforces the aggression as you add to the tension.
The water bottle/spray is a good idea as is Cesar's training as jesicamyers said, you reward good behaviour & ignore bad


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## pam6400 (Oct 5, 2008)

Oh Marie, Tillie sounds just like my Benny! Benny is a very nervous dog, always has been since the day we brought him home at 12 weeks old. He hides under the bed all the time. 
Sometimes when we all get up on the bed to watch tv, Frankie comes up to top of the bed always, Ben will attack Frankie viciously. Frankie is our alpha dog as we had him for a whole year before we got Ben. It is so scary!
One of us will just grab him and hold him on his side until he calms down. Time outs don't work for us either. Never tried the spray bottle. I have gotten bit many times. Is Tillie your newest pup?


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

So sorry Marie how awful .have you tried the pet corector spray ? from any large pet shops or Amazon


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## Zippy (Dec 31, 2010)

jesicamyers said:


> There was an episode of ceasar milan with an agressiive chihuahua.


Marie, I have sent you a PM regarding this episode.

EDIT - I _think_ that I sent you a PM. Please let me know if you don't get it.


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

Thanks everyone soooooo much. Tillie is the newest to the house but older than Lola. Cookie has always been weak to her as I only got her last May.

Yes I think now she's more relaxed she's started. I've had the pet corrector for Lola but Tillie wasn't botherd by it.

I know it's horrible t say but I am seriously considering the collar. I feel so bad even saying it but what else can I do. I'm afraid she'd kill Cookie. Lola is now standing up for herself and actually got the better of Tillie today. 

Tillie is 2 years old and I don't want this going on all their life. No way. She is seriously viscious. One occassion recently it happened downstairs and I was upstairs so there was a few seconds delay getting to her and poor Lo was bleeding. 

I am gonna watch the Cesar Millan episode. I was trying to find relevant episodes today. I've bought a book about agression as well.


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## intuition (Jan 19, 2011)

Are there times when tillie isn't aggressive toward your other pets? you might want to try positive dog training. if say you have tillie on the bed, and she doesn't growl at a dog, you treat her and call her a good dog. if you have tillie and you call a dog closer, and the longer she stays calm, you treat her. It's about working in stages and getting her to associate good things with the other dogs. 
You might also want to try working out a NILIF ( nothing in life is free) type plan. its just where they have to do something to get something. Duke ( my foster dog) has thrived on this, he now has to sit for treats, to go outside, to play ball. its just added structure that some dogs LOVE. 

Also, watch for tensing when she seems to come outta nowhere to attack. like when she's across the room. It should be ( now i don't know really) like she's tense and staring at them, when that happens make whatever noise or word you use for correction. I use Ah-ah loud and clipped but not yelling to distract mine. 

I'm wondering if you say she's nervous, i wonder if she's getting so worked up its the only outlet her brain will let her do. is she relatively calm or is something stressful going on when she attacks? This could be a lot of things, as far as food being on the floor, people moving around, to a missing toy. 

Also don't let her growl or snap on your lap. thats resource guarding and can lead to some not nice things. like how you said she elevated from snapping to fighting. since she's attacking i would say no, and remove yourself. if you remove her from your lap like normal, i'm afraid she'll immediatly go for a dog. Of course this is on the idea you get a warning before she gets twitchy. but yea i'd just walk out of the room for a few seconds, then go back to the bed without a word. your what she wants there, and if you leave, the hope is she gets teh point that growling/snapping/fighting means she loses you. 

just some thoughts kinda rambling but maybe it will help


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## intuition (Jan 19, 2011)

MarieUkxx said:


> I am gonna watch the Cesar Millan episode. I was trying to find relevant episodes today. I've bought a book about agression as well.


Some of this is resource guarding, so i'd also pick up some books on that. its really a different animal. your just the resource instead of food. I'm not saying ALL of it is resource guarding, but its worth a look into also.


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## chi's R me (Jun 30, 2009)

I have the same thing going on with Chloe, she is very aggressive with my senior girl Sassy and also with my chinese crested pups. I put her on her side and tell her no in a very firm way. I hold her there till she calms down and I pet and calm the victim while I hold her on her side. this has been going on for awhile but last night she started after Sassy and I said her name and NO and she stopped and ran over to me.  very happy, it was the first time she had stopped without being pulled off. I have also gotten bitten and she will draw blood on the other dogs. It has taked awhile but I think this is gonna work.


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

I mentioned a shock collar but I can't do that. I can't bear the thought of it. I have book coming on dog agression and am watching the cesar millan episode for tips. Plus I am getting a water pistol as that was suggested on some sites to bbreak up fighting.

Thanks everyone for the advice


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## chideb (Jan 29, 2008)

Marie, I am so sad to hear this is happening.. especially with Cookie...I have to say that I have such a huge soft spot for the "seniors" - we have a 15 year old chi girl, Fancy, and as many know we just lost our nearly 17 year old pug boy, Charlie Chan. I know first hand how their joint issues and tooth loss prevents them from being able to defend themselves against the behavior of younger, stronger dogs. 
_I realize that I am setting myself up for a landslide of criticism _when I tell you what we did to prevent one of our dogs, a chi mix who is a year old, from attacking Charlie Chan who was not able to defend himself. After seeing that other measures were not going to work, we purchased a flexible plastic 12 inch ruler and paddled his fanny twice when he tried to challenge Charlie. I would never use my hand which gives love and comfort to my babies to discipline them, thus the need for the flexi-ruler. First, he was shocked which immediately took his focus off Charlie and back on me. And he knew I was very serious and very unhappy with him. I waited 5 minutes and then picked Rocky up and loved him and snuggled with him for a long time. We only had to go thru this process twice before just picking up the ruler for Rocky to see created the desired result.. he walked away from Charlie and came right to me to be loved. Sometimes drastic measures which create immediate results are required.. and for Charlie's sake it became necessary to deal with Rocky swiftly, sternly, and effectively. I will add that Rocky still loves me dearly and suffered no physical or emotional scarring from having his fanny smacked. When he is the one who is elderly and defenseless, I will not allow him to be tormented either...
My love and hugs to Master Cookie. :love2:


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

chideb said:


> Marie, I am so sad to hear this is happening.. especially with Cookie...I have to say that I have such a huge soft spot for the "seniors" - we have a 15 year old chi girl, Fancy, and as many know we just lost our nearly 17 year old pug boy, Charlie Chan. I know first hand how their joint issues and tooth loss prevents them from being able to defend themselves against the behavior of younger, stronger dogs.
> _I realize that I am setting myself up for a landslide of criticism _when I tell you what we did to prevent one of our dogs, a chi mix who is a year old, from attacking Charlie Chan who was not able to defend himself. After seeing that other measures were not going to work, we purchased a flexible plastic 12 inch ruler and paddled his fanny twice when he tried to challenge Charlie. I would never use my hand which gives love and comfort to my babies to discipline them, thus the need for the flexi-ruler. First, he was shocked which immediately took his focus off Charlie and back on me. And he knew I was very serious and very unhappy with him. I waited 5 minutes and then picked Rocky up and loved him and snuggled with him for a long time. We only had to go thru this process twice before just picking up the ruler for Rocky to see created the desired result.. he walked away from Charlie and came right to me to be loved. Sometimes drastic measures which create immediate results are required.. and for Charlie's sake it became necessary to deal with Rocky swiftly, sternly, and effectively. I will add that Rocky still loves me dearly and suffered no physical or emotional scarring from having his fanny smacked. When he is the one who is elderly and defenseless, I will not allow him to be tormented either...
> My love and hugs to Master Cookie. :love2:


Thank you for your reply. It's awful seeing Cookie attacked. He just can't stand up for himself anymore. He topples over with a slight touch and has hardly any teeth.

It's nasty saying it but I was happy Lola finally stood up for herself today against Tillie. 

This has been going on for a while now but I didn't say anything. Today was really bad that's why I finally posted. My arm is so sore after I got in the way of Tillie attacking Lola today.

Your Charlie was a handsome dog. It's a credit to you he lived so long. I hope Cookie has a few more years left too. 

And on a lighthearted note can I just say how freakin weird it it you Americans call an *** a fanny!!!!!!!!!!!!! I told a friend who had a bum bag he was using a fanny pack and he didn't believe me lol. We call a fanny the front parts of a lady. My friend was so shocked when I sad Americans call his bag a fanny pack lol.


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## Zippy (Dec 31, 2010)

MarieUkxx said:


> I mentioned a shock collar but I can't do that. I can't bear the thought of it.


I can safely say that the shock colors don't really hurt that much; they're more for getting attention than for administering pain.

How do I know this? Well, without going into too many embarrassing details, let me just say that I am a human male and that human males will sometimes do the dumbest, most outlandish things on a dare. :-|


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

Zippy said:


> I can safely say that the shock colors don't really hurt that much; they're more for getting attention than for administering pain.
> 
> How do I know this? Well, without going into too many embarrassing details, let me just say that I am a human male and that human males will sometimes do the dumbest, most outlandish things on a dare. :-|


LMAO thank you for making me smile.


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## Chihuahuasloveme (Jan 8, 2010)

What about a vibration collar? I have one of these not for aggression but for barking it works wonders! It has a remote and it has different vibration levels there's a warning vibration and then a little more intense but it vibrates just like a pager or cell phone would so it doesn't ever shock but I just put that on my chi's and they are so well behaved outside lol I got it mostly for Prada she barks instantly when she goes outside at absolute nothing I've only ever had to push the vibration a couple of times and now when we put it on she doesn't make a peep! We have used it on Baby too for the same thing Barking. I have seen cesar use it on the dog whisperer for aggression I got mine on Ebay for $20! It would be worth looking into for sure and you won't feel cruel since it's just like a phone vibrating.

This is the one i got

Remote Vibration Dog Anti Bark Barking Training Collar on eBay.ca (item 230568904188 end time 30-Jan-11 15:12:47 EST)

The collar is a tad big but I altered it to fit


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## chideb (Jan 29, 2008)

"And on a lighthearted note can I just say how freakin weird it it you Americans call an *** a fanny!!!!!!!!!!!!! I told a friend who had a bum bag he was using a fanny pack and he didn't believe me lol. We call a fanny the front parts of a lady. My friend was so shocked when I said Americans call his bag a fanny pack lol. "

Oh Marie.. and all this time I thought I was speaking "english"..lol You can be sure I was referring to Rocky's "backside, lol" I wonder how many other times I have used words not realizing the British and American meanings might not be the same...:dontknow: Blessings, Deb


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## chi's R me (Jun 30, 2009)

MarieUkxx said:


> Thank you for your reply. It's awful seeing Cookie attacked. He just can't stand up for himself anymore. He topples over with a slight touch and has hardly any teeth.
> 
> It's nasty saying it but I was happy Lola finally stood up for herself today against Tillie.
> 
> ...


Oh, we have lots of names for the a**, like booty, bottom, po-po, fanny, hinney, butt just to name a few. lol
rear end, just to name a few.


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

Chihuahuasloveme said:


> What about a vibration collar? I have one of these not for aggression but for barking it works wonders! It has a remote and it has different vibration levels there's a warning vibration and then a little more intense but it vibrates just like a pager or cell phone would so it doesn't ever shock but I just put that on my chi's and they are so well behaved outside lol I got it mostly for Prada she barks instantly when she goes outside at absolute nothing I've only ever had to push the vibration a couple of times and now when we put it on she doesn't make a peep! We have used it on Baby too for the same thing Barking. I have seen cesar use it on the dog whisperer for aggression I got mine on Ebay for $20! It would be worth looking into for sure and you won't feel cruel since it's just like a phone vibrating.
> 
> This is the one i got
> 
> ...


I've got my eye on a citronella spray one on ebay. It has a remote. There's one going in a few days I'm gonna go for. I was looking for the vibration one but couldn't find one with a remote. 

Thanks for helping me.


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## FBRaRrN (May 1, 2006)

chideb said:


> Marie, I am so sad to hear this is happening.. especially with Cookie...I have to say that I have such a huge soft spot for the "seniors" - we have a 15 year old chi girl, Fancy, and as many know we just lost our nearly 17 year old pug boy, Charlie Chan. I know first hand how their joint issues and tooth loss prevents them from being able to defend themselves against the behavior of younger, stronger dogs.
> _I realize that I am setting myself up for a landslide of criticism _when I tell you what we did to prevent one of our dogs, a chi mix who is a year old, from attacking Charlie Chan who was not able to defend himself. After seeing that other measures were not going to work, we purchased a flexible plastic 12 inch ruler and paddled his fanny twice when he tried to challenge Charlie. I would never use my hand which gives love and comfort to my babies to discipline them, thus the need for the flexi-ruler. First, he was shocked which immediately took his focus off Charlie and back on me. And he knew I was very serious and very unhappy with him. I waited 5 minutes and then picked Rocky up and loved him and snuggled with him for a long time. We only had to go thru this process twice before just picking up the ruler for Rocky to see created the desired result.. he walked away from Charlie and came right to me to be loved. Sometimes drastic measures which create immediate results are required.. and for Charlie's sake it became necessary to deal with Rocky swiftly, sternly, and effectively. I will add that Rocky still loves me dearly and suffered no physical or emotional scarring from having his fanny smacked. When he is the one who is elderly and defenseless, I will not allow him to be tormented either...
> My love and hugs to Master Cookie. :love2:


I am all for it some times you have to smack their fanny and no ours ain't faired bad from it either.
I am so sorry you are going through this.I love little Cookie.We have one that will attack and bring blood too.At times but if we go and look there is always something he is gaurding.He is our little trouble maker.


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## jazzman (Apr 8, 2009)

chideb said:


> _I realize that I am setting myself up for a landslide of criticism _


Luckily, a landslide of criticism means doesn't amount to a hill of beans compared to doing the right thing. Well stated and well done.


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## chideb (Jan 29, 2008)

jazzman said:


> Luckily, a landslide of criticism means doesn't amount to a hill of beans compared to doing the right thing. Well stated and well done.


Thanks Alan..


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## Dazy Mae (Aug 10, 2008)

MarieUkxx said:


> I mentioned a shock collar but I can't do that. I can't bear the thought of it. I have book coming on dog agression and am watching the cesar millan episode for tips. Plus I am getting a water pistol as that was suggested on some sites to bbreak up fighting.
> 
> Thanks everyone for the advice




I am so glad you made the decision against the collar....I have had two vets tell me that the shock collar is bad for small dogs....especially near the throat area where the skin is thin and near the trachea. 
spray bottle works good....I have used it on Dazy...she is also very nervous and thinks she is the momma dog around this house. I keep telling her that "I am the momma dog and she is not!! "
Good luck and don't lose faith


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## Chimom4 (Sep 26, 2010)

Hey, so sorry you are having trouble. It's so scary when they fight! Just a thought but maybe worth a try, why not write to Caesar? He has a soft spot for Chihuahuas. I'd still try all the things you are going to try, but I think I would write to him and see if you get a response. It couldn't hurt. :dontknow:


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## Chimom4 (Sep 26, 2010)

MarieUkxx said:


> And on a lighthearted note can I just say how freakin weird it it you Americans call an *** a fanny!!!!!!!!!!!!! I told a friend who had a bum bag he was using a fanny pack and he didn't believe me lol. We call a fanny the front parts of a lady. My friend was so shocked when I sad Americans call his bag a fanny pack lol.



You guys crack me up! That's a riot! We speak the same language, but the nuances are so different. I am an American of British descent. My mother is half Scottish on her paternal side and half English on her mothers side. Both of her sets of grandparents were immigrants to the US. Also, my Dads family was Welsh. My mom was practically raised by her Victorian English grand mom, so our family customs are very English. We set a proper table and cook a fabulous Yorkshire Pudding. Lol. Anyway... This one will stick with me and make me chuckle. Not sure I can call it a fanny pack anymore. I may need to start calling it a bum bag!!!! :laughing8:


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

Chimom4 said:


> You guys crack me up! That's a riot! We speak the same language, but the nuances are so different. I am an American of British descent. My mother is half Scottish on her paternal side and half English on her mothers side. Both of her sets of grandparents were immigrants to the US. Also, my Dads family was Welsh. My mom was practically raised by her Victorian English grand mom, so our family customs are very English. We set a proper table and cook a fabulous Yorkshire Pudding. Lol. Anyway... This one will stick with me and make me chuckle. Not sure I can call it a fanny pack anymore. I may need to start calling it a bum bag!!!! :laughing8:


Lol. It's a funny one isn't it. I'm used to a lot of American words for things as I'm a tv addict but I can't get used to that. It's just sooo rude lol.

Honestly my friend who is quite straight laced wouldn't believe me. He was shocked lol. 

And I love a good old Yorkshire pud


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## glyndwr (Dec 4, 2010)

HaHA "Fanny pack" would`nt say it in public over here , well not me anyway, would sure get some funny looks, will stick to bum bag, lol


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