# where did all you get your chi's?



## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

I got my little Cici from this breeder here, this is her website: deleted... 
what do yous think? would you all say she is a byb? I mean I went to her house to get my baby and she seemed very nice her house was lovely everything seemed in tack, but she does advertise a lot of her chi's as 'teacup' which I have read that only byb do that. I must admit though, her chi's are absolutely gorgeous and every time I go on her website I want another one of her little puppies!! I'd like your opinions on Cici's breeder, I mean she is lovely


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## Amanda Kennedy (Nov 5, 2008)

the first thing that jumped out at me was the word "teacup". a term to make the most amount of money, ect.
i did read her home page and i did not like that will not affilate herself with anyone or other club, but hey what do i know!!!


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

The links been removed

I think there is different extremes of puppy farms bybs and reputable breeders 

One of mine came from a byb but she is the best dog on earth the other came from a show breeder/judge and she is perfectly to standard a total sweety but a cow ATM haha


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I glanced at the site before removing the link and She has some good information on it but at the same time she does use the term "Teacup" and there are no pictures of the parents and both of these are always red flags to me. Dont even get me started on how much she is charging for the pups???


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

woops sorry i didn't know you weren't aloud to post websites up. Yeh I know she is very expensive ae? Cici cost me £2250! I mean at the time I didn't know that I was silly paying that amount, but I love Cici so it worked out OK but I know for next time!


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

I got Harley from a breeder in North Carolina. She has a great website with pages of references, pictures of all the parents, her facility and information on the "teacup myth", the molera, hypoglycemia, FAQ's... ect. They even met us halfway in VA to bring him to us. Harley has some health and behavior issues though. 

On the flip side, on a whim, I impulsively got Shiloh from an awful, run of the mill "puppy store" by my college in NJ. I knowingly got her with the notion she was most likely from a puppy mill, but she really pulled on my heart strings and I couldn't walk out that door without her. Shi was sick with parasites and had a few hypoglycemia episodes, the first week. I did get an unfit for sale from the vet and the bills were covered by the store. However, I would never recommend someone getting a puppy from a place like that or ever do that again. Minus complications from her spay surgery (unrelated) she had a long recovery and is perfectly healthy and normal now. She actually has one of the best personalities out of all our dogs. Ironic.

I'm by no reason advocating for pet stores or byb, but if you're content with your dog and they are healthy and happy.... then it shouldn't matter where they come from. I'm not able to see her website, but from what everyone else is saying - I agree with. It's usually helpful to see pictures of the parents and their dogs - to get an idea of what the puppies will look like. Yes, using the term "teacup" is a selling technique, most breeders who are truly trying to better the breed and not just make $$ cringe when they hear the term teacup. BUT I think it's a good sign you were able to see the breeder's set up and all her dogs, that accounts for more than a website! Anway - CiCi is beautiful and looks like she fits the chihuahua breed standard. So no, I don't think her breeder is a true "byb" - maybe trying to get more profit out of it than others - but not a legit byb. JMO - going off of everything that was previously said


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Can you PM me the link please, 2 of mine are from show breeders and didn't even pay one third of what you payed for your girl for both of them and both of mine are shown at championship level and have fab temperament's. For someone to charge that for a pet is beyond a joke, as long as people are paying these prices then there will always be these people conning un knowing people out of money.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Can you pm me it too jeez bit mine together didn't even cost that!!!


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

I sent you a private message  let me know if you didn't get it


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## Dragonfly (Jun 6, 2010)

I got Shayley from a breeder. Kizzie came from Petfinder as a dropped off pup.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Louise sent me the link

I think they are a puppy farm she pumps out puppies left and right they aren't registered as far as I'm aware?? Or are they?? And you view them in her private viewing area!! That screams puppy farm to me!

The teacup thing she uses all the time we've spoken about her frequently on here she charges ridiculous prices! Half the dogs I've seen advertised aren't to standard I'm glad you love your dog and have it but I would warn people far away from this so called breedee


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Also what concerns me even more is some of the blue pups look like their hair is sparse! Not good


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

We got our girl from a family breeder. Her parents and their puppies are AKC registered. We met all the puppies in the big sunroom where they live. Some were spoken for so they separated just the few that were available for us to play with. 

The parents and available puppies are on their site and we met her parents and litter mates as well. I made a page of photos and information on her parents so that we are able to see the resemblances (that may be silly!) as she gets bigger. By meeting them, we can already see that she has her dad's eyes but otherwise looks exactly like her mama. The mom and dad are both 3 years old and this was the first breeding between them.

She was $500. She came with an 8 lb. bag of food that she was accustomed, a bag that was filled with a package of her training pads, a coat and shirt (she had a whole closet filled with new clothing, bedding and such and said if we did not like what she had chosen for her that we could choose for ourselves), toys, a blanket and a nice snapped folder that had all of her medical history-shot records, worming, etc., her AKC stuff so that we could register her, their business card and our contract which included commitment for 2 remaining immunizations as well as a 2 year health guarantee. We are asked to send a one year photo so that they can see the dog as well as gain deeper insight into their matching.

When we took her for her last shot, she went CRAZY when the breeder spoke to her and she saw her! She kissed her to bits and the breeder had tears in her eyes as they loved on each other. Hope CLEARLY knew her and remembered her!

If we get a second, it will be from this breeder. We adore this family and have had a good experience.


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

Daisydoo said:


> Louise sent me the link
> 
> I think they are a puppy farm she pumps out puppies left and right they aren't registered as far as I'm aware?? Or are they?? And you view them in her private viewing area!! That screams puppy farm to me!
> 
> The teacup thing she uses all the time we've spoken about her frequently on here she charges ridiculous prices! Half the dogs I've seen advertised aren't to standard I'm glad you love your dog and have it but I would warn people far away from this so called breedee


Oh really, so your saying you don't think Cici is a standard chihuahua? This makes me sad since I got Cici from this breeder but everyone is saying she is really bad


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

Don't get down! Just from going by your signature and avatar - Cici *definitely* looks the chihuahua standard! Do you have any other pics of her?


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

From what I've heard and read her dogs were bred in Spain and she brought them over here as far as I can read they aren't kc registered? Is cici kc registered? Some of the puppies on there look like they have sparse hair especially the blue ones which rings alarm bells!

IMO she is a bad breeder I'm 99% certain she's a puppy farm she has a very high output of puppies!

When I used the word standard I meant the chihuahua breed standard, this ladies dogs aren't all to the breed standard she has an ex brood on there for sale her muzzle is way too long for the standard. 
I can only see your dogs face in your sig I'll go through your posts and look for other pictures but her head is quite flat on top and her muzzle looks long and undershot but it could just be the picture and being just a pet it really doesn't matter If they aren't totally to standard  I personally wouldn't pay as much as you did for her tbh I wouldn't pay that muchfor a show girl (mine wa less than half that price)

We live and learn a lot of people have made mistakes buying dogs and gone to these awful people as long as your dog is healthy and loved that's what matters


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

I got both Pip and Roo from rescue. 

I didn't see the link, but I agree she is charging a ridiculous amount of money for her pups which is not reputable, imo.


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

Daisydoo said:


> From what I've heard and read her dogs were bred in Spain and she brought them over here as far as I can read they aren't kc registered? Is cici kc registered? Some of the puppies on there look like they have sparse hair especially the blue ones which rings alarm bells!
> 
> IMO she is a bad breeder I'm 99% certain she's a puppy farm she has a very high output of puppies!
> 
> ...



Yes well when I met her she said she useto live in Spain and stuff but she's been living in England for a while. Well to be honest it's not a very good pic of Cici in my sig, can't you get into my photo albumns? or do I have to be your friend first?. Yes I mean I was desperate for a chihuahua, and I heard so many things about having to make sure you get from a good breeder, and she was saying you get what you pay for, I would never pay that much for a chihuahua again as I know now that price does not matter so I'm a lot wiser with that now. Can you have a look through my albumn of Cici and tell me what you think? ...


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

I'll pm you  don't wanna go off topic


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## FurKidMommy (Nov 13, 2010)

Couldn't see the link, since it's removed, but all 5 of the Chihuahuas here are rescues.


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

Aww ok thankyou


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Don't feel bad, you didn't know. I don't think many people do with their first chi. I got lucky with my first, she is an absolute gem and came from a fabulous breeder. But it does't always happen that way and it doesn't mean you should love her any less.

I looked at your photo albums and she's very cute. I do think her bite looks way off but shes a pet, it doesn't matter. Her breeder shouldn't have ripped you off the way she did though, thats a ridiculous amount of $$$ for a chi that is cute, but, not very standard.


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

Yeah I mean obvcourse I wont love her any less, she has an amazing personality and she is so loving and fun. I just feel kind of cheated, and a couple of months ago (when I seen sense) I actually emailed her saying I don't think it's good that I paid that much and stuff and asked why she charges so much, but in the end I was the one made to feel bad and she said If I don;t appreciate Cici she will be happy to take her back and give me my money and give her to a family that really love her, I felt so bad because that is not the case I do love her and appreciate her beauty so much!


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

MyLittleCici said:


> Yeah I mean obvcourse I wont love her any less, she has an amazing personality and she is so loving and fun. I just feel kind of cheated, and a couple of months ago (when I seen sense) I actually emailed her saying I don't think it's good that I paid that much and stuff and asked why she charges so much, but in the end I was the one made to feel bad and she said If I don;t appreciate Cici she will be happy to take her back and give me my money and give her to a family that really love her, I felt so bad because that is not the case I do love her and appreciate her beauty so much!


Urgh, how awful of her to try and make you feel guilty. Just because you're questioning her price doesn't mean you don't love your dog, geez. She well knows that too, she's just trying to take the heat off herself.

She's a beautiful little chi. I don't think she is bred to standard though, a lot of chi's aren't honestly, but she's gorgeous all the same. I'm assuming you just want her for a pet and not to show or breed, so I wouldn't worry about it.


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

How is it you can tell if there standard, I'm curious ? Yeah she's my little princess either way, but ye like I said I definitely know for next time, and I think the next chihuahua I get will be a rescue so it kind of evens out the price if you get me lol


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Yeah, I have to say...90% of the new pups people post are seldom to standard! 

I hate to say it but there wouldn't be so many chis in rescues if people ("breeders") would do their research and produce puppies that will look like chihuahuas full grown. You never see the cute, standard, nice heads, under 6 lb chis in rescues...b'c people keep those. It is totally wrong that people jsut give up a chi when it is no longer a cute puppy or small, but the reality of the situation is people do.

Laurel was the darn cutest puppy in the world lol but not so much now and she is huuuge. Shes lucky hubby bought her b'c unfortunately we see ones like her in the shelter often (I volunteer there). 

Cici's breeder sounds like a total bitch to be honest and I would never deal w/ her again.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

I agree what an awful lady!!!!

You know if they are to standard by learning what the standard is looking at the dogs who are winning in the ring (champ shows not companion) and comparing from there.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

American Kennel Club - Chihuahua funnily enough the chi they have posted for the SC pic would never win in the ring nowadays anymore, much shorter, stockier, headier chis are winning these days. Short muzzles, less than 1/2 the length of the skull, and preferably about 1/3 the length of the skull are desired. Muzzle should pop out from the head at a 90 degree angle and be well domed & apple shaped. Body should be slightly longer than it is tall. The adult weight is not to exceed 6 lbs.

and an illustrated standard:

http://chihuahuaclubofamerica.com/images/stories/pdfs/illustrated_standard.pdf


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## FurKidMommy (Nov 13, 2010)

MyLittleCici said:


> Yeah I mean obvcourse I wont love her any less, she has an amazing personality and she is so loving and fun. I just feel kind of cheated, and a couple of months ago (when I seen sense) I actually emailed her saying I don't think it's good that I paid that much and stuff and asked why she charges so much, but in the end I was the one made to feel bad and she said If I don;t appreciate Cici she will be happy to take her back and give me my money and give her to a family that really love her, I felt so bad because that is not the case I do love her and appreciate her beauty so much!


Wow...that was rude. I, personally, wouldn't deal with someone like that. Most reputable good breeders will explain their prices. Sounds to me like this is someone who is trying to make a fortune off of her pups.


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

Yeah I mean It's not like I would give up Cici if she got any bigger or anything, people who do that don't deserve to have pets, I really do think they should start banning people from having pets if they have a regular tendancy of handing there dogs into the shelters. I mean I think Cici is actually quite small, well not really small but average which is good. I have actaully always said, with chihuahuas you get sooo many different looks! I'm guessing this is because people just breed them for money ( since they know they are so popular due to their 'cute factor' but don't do it right, I think there the breed with the most variety of looks if yous get me, not think? It's all so sad, this world is such an untrustworthy place!!


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

I still think she fits the general aspects of the breed standard. Just because she isn't "show quality".... When I think of a chihuahua that isn't 'breed standard', I tend to think of the taco bell dog... or larger (over six pounds), deer head type, floppy ears. I can't see your albums, but she still looks like she has an apple shaped head, both her ears are up... ect. Maybe her bite is off or little things like that, but if you aren't going to breed/show then it shouldn't even matter. On a general aspect, she looks like a purebred chihuahua, on the show dog end... she wouldn't qualify.

On a side not - if the breeder is getting so defensive with her prices you definitely should not deal with her again. I feel that the breeders that are really in it to maintain the breed and who care, worry about pricing and $$ the least. 

Would love to see some new pics of CiCi, she's a cutie


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

MyLittleCici said:


> Yeah I mean obvcourse I wont love her any less, she has an amazing personality and she is so loving and fun. I just feel kind of cheated, and a couple of months ago (when I seen sense) I actually emailed her saying I don't think it's good that I paid that much and stuff and asked why she charges so much, but in the end I was the one made to feel bad and she said If I don;t appreciate Cici she will be happy to take her back and give me my money and give her to a family that really love her, I felt so bad because that is not the case I do love her and appreciate her beauty so much!


Out of curiosity how big is your Cici?
I cannot see the link either, but I agree with much of what has been said here.
Also good to keep in mind regional variances dictate pricing as well.
Where I live it's difficult to find a Chihuahua that is to standard for less than 1000.00


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

Can you see this link perhaps? Login | Facebook


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

I'll add you then maybe you can go into my album on 'MylittleCici' homepage thing lol


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

The link just leads to a dead page 

How old is Cici & what does she weight?


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Ok I saw the pics I guess her around 4-5 pounds? am I right? She is more deer headed to me I think, I have a deer head as well, so I am not putting her down.
I do think your breeder took advantage and it's a shame.

Anyone want to PM me the link?


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

She is around 9-10 months old and yes she is around 5lbs, ohh really I think she looks a lot more like an apple head. I'll pm you the link


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Here is a good side profile of an apple head:

(see attached)...

He has a very "standard" head, as well. He's tough to photograph because his face is entirely white other than a patch over one eye, but you get the idea. He was pooped out after a show here, only time he stays still enough to get a good side profile on his head!


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

Just looked through your album - she looks like an apple head... just has a bit longer of a snout compared to show quality chihuahuas. If you google image "Taco Bell Chihuahua" that is a perfect example of a deer head chihuahua. 

taco bell chihuahua - Google Search


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

See I think Cici's head is shaped like that from the side also, I'll need to get a side profile pic up of her


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes comparing Cici to the taco bell dog I don;t think she is a deer head at all


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Not to start an argument but a show quality dog IS the chihuahua standard! The problem is thatthere are so many dogs not bred to standard that people think it's the standard just because ears are erect and the head may have a slight apple shape doesn't mean it's to standard! Ears have to be set correctly and their head needs to be correct! 

Just because they look like a chihuahua doesn't mean try are to the breed standard all dogs have a fault no dog is perfect but if they aren't bred to standard they just aren't! 

I love brycos head! Here's lotus hers should still get bigger well I hope it does


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

She may just have a slightly longer/wider muzzle is all


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

MyLittleCici said:


> Yes comparing Cici to the taco bell dog I don;t think she is a deer head at all


That's what most deer head chihuahuas look like... they don't have the apple shaped dome and their head slants off into the snout, instead of an apple head which curves down to the slant. Hopefully that makes sense... hard to put that into words LOL


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Daisydoo said:


> Not to start an argument but a show quality dog IS the chihuahua standard! The problem is thatthere are so many dogs not bred to standard that people think it's the standard just because ears are erect and the head may have a slight apple shape doesn't mean it's to standard! Ears have to be set correctly and their head needs to be correct!
> 
> Just because they look like a chihuahua doesn't mean try are to the breed standard all dogs have a fault no dog is perfect but if they aren't bred to standard they just aren't!


Well said just because you don't show the dog doesn't mean it shouldn't look like the standard


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

I'll post a side of B's head as well since I have one from some pics I took for his breeder the other day.. lol

Was Cici sold to you as a teacup? I just read through her site and the dogs she is calling or projecting as teacups seems awfully young.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

This is my boys head from the side, I love his head 
1st Novice Dog - The Longcoat Chihuahua Club
Sorry you will have to copy and paste it as I'm on my phone and its crap lol


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Here's the uk standard for you, it's further broken down on the British chihuahua club site you can see that muzzles don't slant from the head they should have a prominent stop

General Appearance
Small, dainty, compact.

Characteristics
Alert little dog; swift-moving with brisk, forceful action and saucy expression.

Temperament
Gay, spirited and intelligent, neither snappy nor withdrawn.

Head and Skull
Well rounded ‘apple dome’ skull, cheeks and jaws lean, muzzle moderately short, slightly pointed. Definite stop.

Eyes
Large, round, but not protruding; set well apart; centre of eye is on a plane with lowest point of ear and base of stop; dark or ruby. Light eyes in light colours permissible.

Ears
Large, flaring, set on at an angle of approximately 45 degrees; giving breadth between ears. Tipped or broken down highly undesirable.

Mouth
Jaws strong, with a perfect, regular and complete scissor bite, i.e. upper teeth closely overlapping lower teeth and set square to the jaws.

Neck
Slightly arched, medium length.

Forequarters
Shoulders well laid; lean, sloping into slightly broadening support above straight forelegs, set well under chest giving freedom of movement without looseness.

Body
Level back. Body, from point of shoulder to rear point of croup, slightly longer than height at withers. Well sprung ribs, deep brisket.

Hindquarters
Muscular; hocks well let down, with good turn of stifle, well apart, turning neither in nor out.

Feet
Small and dainty, turning neither in nor out; toes well divided but not spread, pads cushioned, fine, strong, flexible pasterns. Neither hare- nor cat-like, nails moderately short.

Tail
Medium length, set high, carried up and over back (sickle tail). When moving never tucked under or curled below the topline. Furry, flattish in appearance, broadening slightly in centre and tapering to point.

Gait/Movement
Brisk, forceful action, neither high-stepping nor hackney; good reach without slackness in forequarters, good drive in hindquarters. Viewed from front and behind legs should move neither too close nor too wide, with no turning in or out of feet or pasterns. Topline should remain firm and level when moving.

Coat
Long Coat: soft texture (never coarse or harsh to touch) either flat or slightly wavy. Never tight and curly. Feathering on ears, feet and legs, pants on hindquarters, large ruff on neck desirable. Tail long and full as a plume.
Smooth Coat: smooth, of soft texture, close and glossy, with undercoat and ruff permissible.

Colour
Any colour or mixture of colours but never merle (dapple).

Size
Weight: up to 2.7 kgs (6 lbs), with 1.8 - 2.7 kgs (4 - 6 lbs) preferred.

Faults
Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog.

Note
Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum.

Last Updated - October 2009
I think the only difference between us and the us is they can have merles?? Kristi am I right?


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> This is my boys head from the side, I love his head
> 1st Novice Dog - The Longcoat Chihuahua Club
> Sorry you will have to copy and paste it as I'm on my phone and its crap lol


I adore him  and look you covered his bad hair day


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Yes we can have merles here and SC to LC breedings are accepted by the AKC whereas in the UK they only accept LC to LC and SC to SC breedings. Your standard also says somewhere that the angle of the muzzle is actually closer to 100 degrees I think, instead of the 90 degrees ours reads for? I could be wrong on that one tho. Its pretty similar.


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

ohh its all very interesting ae?, here is a picture of Cici's profile  apple head ? Chihuahua Forum : Chihuahua Breed Dog Forums - MyLittleCici's Album: Cici  - Picture

if yous cant see it just go to my albumn


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

I think show quality dogs MATCH the standard... a standard is something to follow... which is why plenty of show quality dogs still look different and stand out from one another. JMO. I still think there are - pet chihuahuas that look close to the standard or in other words look "purebred", but might not be a complete match. Why do you think breeders end up selling limited contract puppies, because while breeding two "show quality" dogs that "are" the standard can still produce imperfections. That's just genetics sometimes. 

Isn't that the point of separate dog breeds... to look like their breed description and fulfill their purpose?! Sometimes even puppies dubbed "show quality" end up not fitting the standard. Not trying to make this in a debate but felt like I needed to back up my previous post.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Her head does look more apple from the side, her bite is def. off but as a pet it doesnt matter. 

Trigger has a head shaped like hers but I consider him closer to a deer head only because he doesn't have the width to his skull from the front on view.


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

MyLittleCici said:


> ohh its all very interesting ae?, here is a picture of Cici's profile  apple head ? Chihuahua Forum : Chihuahua Breed Dog Forums - MyLittleCici's Album: Cici  - Picture
> 
> if yous cant see it just go to my albumn


Great pic - she's so cute. And yes indeed, definitely an apple head. Sometimes by getting those profile shots, it's easier to tell vs other angles.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

This is a bad pic its out of focus but it does show the lines of his head.. albeit he looks like a tiny troll dog in this pic.. ha ha Not very flattering!

I had him in the scale weighing him to send a pic to his breeder he hates the scale


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Its true, not all puppies are cut out for the show ring and thus beautiful babies end up in pet homes b'c something was just slightly off. But that's not the argument being made here, the argument in question is...whether or not the breeder as a whole was/is breeding with the standard as a goal and from the sounds of it shes breeding with her pocket book as a goal. 

I just think breeding should only be done with matching the standard in mind. Trigger looked to be "show quality" at 8 weeks, hahaha no way now. He had the perfect head, short muzzle, short, compact, perfect little body, good ear & tailset, & bite. He is a fabulous pet but things change and you never know what you will get. But his litter was bred w/ the hopes of show quality, not just with the hopes they looked like chihuahuas.


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

AHHH Kitty D... such a cutie!! He looks so itty bitty too. Adorable!


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> Yes we can have merles here and SC to LC breedings are accepted by the AKC whereas in the UK they only accept LC to LC and SC to SC breedings. Your standard also says somewhere that the angle of the muzzle is actually closer to 100 degrees I think, instead of the 90 degrees ours reads for? I could be wrong on that one tho. Its pretty similar.


It doesn't actually say in the standard but does on the bcc website the link I linked on the tail thread you can see it all in depth it's really interesting

Jessica - different judges/people have diff interpretations of what they think the standard is the dogs all look different but still look the same if that makes sense

2 champs can produce puppies that aren't to standard so would be sold to pet homes only because they aren't to standard. Like I said alldogs even the top in the world have faults but then you have to differentiate between a fault and a dog not being tithe breed standard


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

Aww ha that's a really cute pic


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

KittyD said:


> This is a bad pic its out of focus but it does show the lines of his head.. albeit he looks like a tiny troll dog in this pic.. ha ha Not very flattering!
> 
> I had him in the scale weighing him to send a pic to his breeder he hates the scale


(((((SQUEEZE!))))):love10::love10::love10:


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

KittyD said:


> This is a bad pic its out of focus but it does show the lines of his head.. albeit he looks like a tiny troll dog in this pic.. ha ha Not very flattering!
> 
> I had him in the scale weighing him to send a pic to his breeder he hates the scale


Hey bijou I don't believe your mum I see you smiling


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Jessica said:


> AHHH Kitty D... such a cutie!! He looks so itty bitty too. Adorable!


He is, he has held steady at 3 pounds 2-4 oz depending on the time of day I weigh him.



MyLittleCici said:


> Aww ha that's a really cute pic


Thanks



flippedstars said:


> (((((SQUEEZE!))))):love10::love10::love10:


LOL like his sexy bald patches beside his ears? :lol: they don't look anything like that in person.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

And just for you Sarah I have another one..


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

> But that's not the argument being made here, the argument in question is...whether or not the breeder as a whole was/is breeding with the standard as a goal and from the sounds of it shes breeding with her pocket book as a goal.


Agreed. Most breeders, breeding for show only have a few litters a year. She sounds like she's constantly selling/advertising puppies. Which is a shame  



> Jessica - different judges/people have diff interpretations of what they think the standard is the dogs all look different but still look the same if that makes sense


Definitely makes sense! Especially in the U.S. at various shows I've noticed this. Certain chihuahua champions or ones that would win best in breed were more "leggy" than other chihuahuas - then going to a different show a more "cobby" chihuahua was favored. Although I think flippedstars mentioned a bit of that too in a previous post.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Brooke I'm waiting!!! I noticed his bald batches


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## kimr (Nov 14, 2010)

My Chi is a rescue, and so is my half Chi/half Cairn terrier. 

I'm sure they both originated from byb, but fortunately, they both seem very healthy.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Daisydoo said:


> Brooke I'm waiting!!! I noticed his bald batches


Sawah dis is just for you! woof 










Don't worry about his bald patches they are not that bad in person.
AJ has some as well right beside the entrance to the ears.


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

KittyD said:


> Sawah dis is just for you! woof
> 
> 
> 
> ...



owah owah owah that picture is the cutest!!!


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

I know I caught him mid lick.. ha ha but I just like to tell people thats his annoyed look :lol:


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## TillyHeart (Jan 1, 2011)

Don't feel bad, I almost paid around that much too. I had never bought a chi and had NO IDEA how much they go for, so I was already buying one for around then when My mom found out and said NO WAY! She ended up suprising me with one for christmas and saved me a bundle. I can relate though because I thought that was the normal price.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Kitty! He is PRECIOUS!! Such expressive eyes and mouth! I also love the green collar!

I guess now I do not know if Hope is standard or not. Her parents are purebreds so she is too but that would not necessarily make her standard from what I read here. I have MUCH to learn and you all are helping!

We are keeping her as our child...um, I mean as a pet and she will not be bred nor shown so I guess we are good. She does have an apple head, some Yoda ears and I will be nervous until her molera is more solid!


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## Terri (Aug 21, 2009)

Wow that breeder is just ripping folk off with those prices!
Some of the pups look like their bite is off to me, but others seem ok.
I think your Cici is a little beauty though, so i wouldnt feel down in any way.
That woman sounds awful too, trying to make you feel bad cause you questioned her crazy prices, that was so you didnt go on about it, she is a sly one and a money grabber too!

I got Darla from a breeder in Perth, and she doesnt advertise at all, she doesnt have a computer! ha! 
I called the chi club of Scotland and emailed the Scottish Kennel club and her name always came up.
She is an older woman and she shows too.

Darla was £800 and in my eyes perfect. 
Daisy was also there at the same time LOL and she was older at almost 3 years old, so cost £100, but priceless to me, as are all my babies of course.

Dillon i got from Nottingham and found him on deleted....
He was £700.
I had a set colour in mind for my boy and i knew i could have no more aswell, so that was why i went all that way, and to me he was worth that.
I am in contact with Dillon's breeder and send her pics all the time.
We have even spoken about her visiting sometime and staying over at mine so she can bring Dillon's mum and her other chi. lol
I think it's important when a breeder also wants to get updates about their pups, and actually cares where they go to.

I wouldnt deal with someone that seemed to be all about the cash, plus the whole teacup nonsense.
One woman i contacted before Darla used that term and it was a real turn off.
You do live and learn though. x


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Chiara I don't know if you saw my question but was Cici sold to you as a teacup?


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

oh sorry i seen your question i forgot to answer it woops! lol yes she was :/ I know that's not a 'proper' term and all that though ...


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Brooke you should of called him gizmo he reminds me of gizmo from the gremlins or a little furby he's so so sweet


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

That's makes it even worse she's 5lbs she's nit even small she's like normal chi size I wanna speak to that woman


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

aww aye love the gremlins, all chi's remind me of them to for some reason, the gremlins came on the telly a lot this xmas and everytime it came on I qould tell Cici look theres you on the telly' :L


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

yeh that is what i emailed her about when she told me about how she will refund Cici since I don't appreciate her. The fact I paid that much and she's not even like really small, that's what pee'd me off. Size doesn't really matter to me any more though, now I know the personality these little ones have, but yeah that's besides the point


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

MyLittleCici said:


> oh sorry i seen your question i forgot to answer it woops! lol yes she was :/ I know that's not a 'proper' term and all that though ...


That confirms what I thought, she is just selling her runts as teacups at young ages and gambling on someone buying them early enough that she can make big profit and when you realize the dog is not what you were told you are out the money.
Sick  :foxes15:

For fun you should call her bluff and email her and say yes you want to refund the dog and see what she says!! :lol: I am betting she was just spewing hot air when she said she would take her back because she knows darn well you love the dog and won't send it back.



Daisydoo said:


> Brooke you should of called him gizmo he reminds me of gizmo from the gremlins or a little furby he's so so sweet


Ha ha my husband calls him the resident ewok (those things from star wars) lol


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## Adrienne (Apr 3, 2009)

I got Ava from a Supposed breeder Obviously by looking at Ava she isnt purebred and her legs are the way they are because of Bad breeding... Quark I got from Kijiji and His home was gross and the people were very mean to him... 
Lola I got from a friend


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Breeders who lie piss me off! it's an absolute peeve of mine.
It's disgusting how hard it is to find a tiny Chi when you really want one.


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

I know, She seemed like such a nice women, oh and her house was absaloutley HUGE!! so yeh she must be scamming a lot of people b/c it looks like she has a lot of money


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Yep well it sounds like she has a well oiled machine there.
She keeps cranking out the dogs and people keep paying the inflated prices so yes in a nutshell this woman is a glorified puppy mill.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Jessica said:


> I got Harley from a breeder in North Carolina. She has a great website with pages of references, pictures of all the parents, her facility and information on the "teacup myth", the molera, hypoglycemia, FAQ's... ect. They even met us halfway in VA to bring him to us. Harley has some health and behavior issues though.
> 
> On the flip side, on a whim, I impulsively got Shiloh from an awful, run of the mill "puppy store" by my college in NJ. I knowingly got her with the notion she was most likely from a puppy mill, but she really pulled on my heart strings and I couldn't walk out that door without her. Shi was sick with parasites and had a few hypoglycemia episodes, the first week. I did get an unfit for sale from the vet and the bills were covered by the store. However, I would never recommend someone getting a puppy from a place like that or ever do that again. Minus complications from her spay surgery (unrelated) she had a long recovery and is perfectly healthy and normal now. She actually has one of the best personalities out of all our dogs. Ironic.
> 
> I'm by no reason advocating for pet stores or byb, but if you're content with your dog and they are healthy and happy.... then it shouldn't matter where they come from. I'm not able to see her website, but from what everyone else is saying - I agree with. It's usually helpful to see pictures of the parents and their dogs - to get an idea of what the puppies will look like. Yes, using the term "teacup" is a selling technique, most breeders who are truly trying to better the breed and not just make $$ cringe when they hear the term teacup. BUT I think it's a good sign you were able to see the breeder's set up and all her dogs, that accounts for more than a website! Anway - CiCi is beautiful and looks like she fits the chihuahua breed standard. So no, I don't think her breeder is a true "byb" - maybe trying to get more profit out of it than others - but not a legit byb. JMO - going off of everything that was previously said


Could you private message me where you got her in NC? (Just curious as I am in NC) Sorry to say a great website with great information can still be a Puppy mill. some of the big busted puppy mills have had unbelievably fabulous websites with loads of pictures and great information. Also just because they show a picture of the parents does not mean they are actually the parents. I know lots of byb's and millers that post pictures that they have stolen from others websites claiming them as their own. It is sad really :-( My idea of a reputable breeder is someone who has breeding for some time that shows their Chi's and health tests. Or someone who has a mentor that shows and health tests. JMO ;-)


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

"For fun you should call her bluff and email her and say yes you want to refund the dog and see what she says!! :lol: I am betting she was just spewing hot air when she said she would take her back because she knows darn well you love the dog and won't send it back."


This is what I dont understand about contracts in the first place whether it be a genetic issue, etc... The breeder knows that you will get attached to the puppy and not want to give it back. This is one reason that I dont put to much heart to the contracts that have this stipulation ??


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

I will PM it to you now... let me know what you think. and I agree. Shiloh who 100% came from a puppy mill - I looked up the name on her papers, a puppy mill in Wisconsin... ended up healthier than my chi from a breeder.


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

KittyD said:


> For fun you should call her bluff and email her and say yes you want to refund the dog and see what she says!! :lol: I am betting she was just spewing hot air when she said she would take her back because she knows darn well you love the dog and won't send it back.


Yeah, exactly. That's my thought too. They know darn well people love their dogs and get attached quickly, so the whole refund thing is pretty pointless. Not many people are going to refund their dog or trade them in.


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## Jessica (Jul 11, 2004)

Do any of you know off-hand how much that equals in American dollars? JC!


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Yoshismom said:


> I know lots of byb's and millers that post pictures that they have stolen from others websites claiming them as their own. It is sad really :-(


Yes! this is actually quite true, it happened to the breeder I got Bijou from someone called her and said " hey your dog is on this xyz's website and they are selling her" meanwhile said dog was in the breeders home with a litter of puppies in the nursery! :lol:


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

It's about $3800!!!!!! 

Where that lady lives is about an hour from me the houses are large but not overly expensive prob pay about £400000 for it compared to here (I don't have a big house btw) you pay that for a 3 bed semi! What a joke! My mates in her area!! Urgh

Anyway through and through she's a puppy mill her videos I've seen you can see the cages out the back


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## LittleHead (May 20, 2004)

My girls didn't come from breeders, just families who weren't careful enough to have their dogs spayed & neutered. My brother was the one who bought them $150 each - Britney in 2001 and Butter in 2005. 

I love them so much though, they are my pets, my girls, and my babies


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

Daisydoo said:


> It's about $3800!!!!!!
> 
> Where that lady lives is about an hour from me the houses are large but not overly expensive prob pay about £400000 for it compared to here (I don't have a big house btw) you pay that for a 3 bed semi! What a joke! My mates in her area!! Urgh
> 
> Anyway through and through she's a puppy mill her videos I've seen you can see the cages out the back


I looked on her web when i was looking for Dottie,on the last video you could hear all the dogs barking outside in the background as well,she was going to contact me when she had more puppies,thank god she didn't:hello1:


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

If she really is a puppy mill she should be stopped so that no one falls for her like I did  Sometimes I don't think enough is done for poor little animals


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Is there someone you can report her to?


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

She's licensed so would be checked by the council. Puppy mills aren't illegal although they are immoral it's not breaking the law so nothing can be done

I youtubed her the pics of the blue pups with sparse hair are awful there are videos of them they are very young and have severe alopecia... Bad bad breeding!


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

The one thing that could be done is reporting her to hmrc as I would lay mony she isn't paying tax and her income must be in excess of £80k a year with the amount of puppies she pumps out


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

Just had another look £3,500 for that poor little thing !!!!!


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

With alopecia!!

Look at the previously sold puppies 5th photo down on right hand side look at it legs


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

Yep noticed that ! looked at all the vids and that little one looks hyper and the fur gets less and less on it's little head,the others look sad with no life in their eyes


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Poppet is a spunky little devil and a bit of a bully? I feel bad for the little white pup :-(


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