# Does this pup look hydro?



## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

Had a friend send me pictures of a pup, and he doesn't look right to me His expected weight is 1 1/2 - 3 lbs max. He is more like a toy chihuahua. (red flags right there as there is no such thing as a 'toy chihuahua'.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I am not good yet at identifying hydro, but that puppy already looks like its 1+ lbs, how old is it? T is great w/ weighs, so I could be way off but she will be closer than me haha. Bryco was smaller than that pup looks at 10 weeks, and he was around 1 lb.

Its eyes do look a little goofy, but the camera is clearly not that pup's eyes friend...so IDK.


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

I think she said they were about 8 weeks.


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

To me, the eyes also look a little weird but almost like they're sensitive to the flash? I'm not great at seeing it in pics unless it's obvious so I'm gonna say no, to me it doens't necessarily look hydro. I'd definitely want to see him in person though just because the eyes do look a little weird.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

His head looks prominent but I don't think it's over large it's big compared to the rest of the litter. One eye looks googley but then daisy had a squint at 8 weeks it's fine now


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

It's hard to tell. I want to say yes, hydro, but not sure. I wonder if his eyes are always squinty like that? Does he run around, play? Are those other two pups his littermates? If so, then I'd be leaning toward saying yes. His eyes make him look unwell and ill. Does she have the pup home with her? I'd be worrying about hypoglycemia as well. He looks pooped out and lethargic in the third pic while the other pups are alert.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

I'm going to say that something is wrong with the little guy. He does look "head heavy," but that doesn't always mean Hydro. His eyes are kinda squinty, and glazed over. Could be the flash, hard to tell. I can also see that he has a large molera, which doesn't mean he's ill, just wanted to mention it. I would ask for more pics. Since he is half the size, and more of his litter mates, and with the questionable "look," I'd pass. I'm not sure about the 1.5 to 3 lbs. grown. He's already about 1.5 lbs. there at 8 weeks old. She is probably charting him, which can be way off at that age. Even charting them at 12 weeks can (will) be way off. In the last pic, unless that is just an off pic, there is clearly something going on. Def. not the look of a healthy 8 week old pup.


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

That is what I told my friend, she just liked the 'tiny' factor, but I told her tiny isn't always good, and the way that pups head is shaped compared to it's littermates I would bet it has hydro. I told her if she's serious to ask the breeder for an MRI of his head  (Which I doubt the breeder would go for). Anyways thanks for all your opinions.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

He's actually quite "big" for an 8 week old Chi. :wink: He could end up well over standard. But the most important thing is his health, which doesn't look to be that good.  Bless his heart.


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

I know...my tender heart wants to go rescue him so he can get the health care he needs. The breeder thinks he's perfectly normal. I think his littermates both look like they are like 8# already. My friend just loves Zoey so wants a 'normal' sized Chi about Zoey's size or up to 6# . I'm helping her, she's sent me lots of pictures, but so far they all look huge to me. We're both keeping up the search though.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Yeah, I would say little fawn dude is def. near 8 lbs., and the other one probably 6 lbs. or so. They are some big Chi babies! They also have a very very stocky build. Like bull dogs. :lol: Poorly bred for sure. I would tell your friend to stay clear. 

I know what you mean. It's so hard not to want to take them all in, especially when you know they have "extra" needs. 

The smaller one is probably over 1.5 lbs. But that's close.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

It's getting tougher and tougher to find one under 6 lbs. And breeders are going crazy with their prices on the ones within standard. They are calling 6 lb. Chi's teacups these days, because they are becoming more and more rare. Sad. I had a talk with my Chi breeder friend of 30+ years, and she gave me some insight, which I already knew, on why the smaller ones are so hard to find. We also discussed how even going to a show breeder/reputable breeder that you are still looking at 4.5 to 6 lbs. mature. Which is still so tiny, but because of all the myths on Chi size and weight people just don’t get it. They expect a 5 to 6 lb. Chi to be what really is an 8 to 10 lb. Chi. I have some errands to run, and I'll share what we discussed when I come back.  Best wishes in your search. Feel free to post pics so we can see.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

TLI said:


> It's getting tougher and tougher to find one under 6 lbs. And breeders are going crazy with their prices on the ones within standard. They are calling 6 lb. Chi's teacups these days, because they are becoming more and more rare. Sad. I had a talk with my Chi breeder friend of 30+ years, and she gave me some insight, which I already knew, on why the smaller ones are so hard to find. We also discussed how even going to a show breeder/reputable breeder that you are still looking at 4.5 to 6 lbs. mature. Which is still so tiny, but because of all the myths on Chi size and weight people just don’t get it. They expect a 5 to 6 lb. Chi to be what really is an 8 to 10 lb. Chi. I have some errands to run, and I'll share what we discussed when I come back.  Best wishes in your search. Feel free to post pics so we can see.


Heather I don't have any advice for you regarding the pup other than I do think his eyes look weird & T I cannot wait to see what you discussed with your friend! although I think I may know some of it already. 

Heather I can tell you from experience it is pretty hard to find the small ones, for some reason many breeders are not honest about the sizes and weights.


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Sorry if this makes me sound stuopid but what do you mean by Hydro


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Deme said:


> Sorry if this makes me sound stuopid but what do you mean by Hydro


NO stupid questions Deme. We are all learning.

Hydro is short for hydrocephalus. It is a condition of excess fluid on the brain. It comes in varying severities. It can be mild where nothing is really done for it, a moderate case would have seizures or other problems, in a severe case it could be fatal. 

Here's a recent thread on it.... (and more if you use the search box here)

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/chi-chat/54644-hydrocephalus.html


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Lets put it this way, when I looked for Bryco, I was looking for a 10 - 12 week old puppy around 1 lb, no more than 1 lb 4 oz. Even though that "charted" him at around 3 lbs, I fully expected him to hit 5 lbs. For awhile I really wasn't sure, he was between the 2.5-3 lb charted range until he hit 22 weeks. Now he is a healthy 3 lb 10 oz boy at 7 months, and I think he will be somewhere under the 5 lb mark. If a puppy hits the 2 lb mark before 15 weeks, I just don't think its reasonable to think it will stay under 6 lbs...Oakley did, but she is a rare exception to that rule lol. Bryco's breeder almost never has a puppy go over 5.5 lbs, an I do believe this is true as I have watched their kennel over a few years, and know others who have their puppies. But getting a puppy that small does come with risks. It is easier for them to get sick, hypoglycemic, and they require more specific care. A bigger, hardier puppy easily recovers from something that might take a week or two for a smaller chi (eg one that will be under 6 lbs).


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## pigeonsheep (Nov 8, 2008)

flippedstars said:


> A bigger, hardier puppy easily recovers from something that might take a week or two for a smaller chi (eg one that will be under 6 lbs).


"im a bigger, hardier puppy" bark bark! =- dexter :grommit:


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Trigger says WOOF WOOF, me too, Dex! And we ibs just as vonderfuls!


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> If a puppy hits the 2 lb mark before 15 weeks, I just don't think its reasonable to think it will stay under 6 lbs...Oakley did, but she is a rare exception to that rule lol.


Yes, AJ was the same way, he was almost 3 pounds at 8 weeks!! and I have not weighed him a few weeks but I would put him at 4.5 pounds. He had a really really weird growth pattern for sure, did not follow ANY chart or method described, he had periods where he didn't gain an ounce and yet his body was changing.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

KittyD said:


> Yes, AJ was the same way, he was almost 3 pounds at 8 weeks!! and I have not weighed him a few weeks but I would put him at 4.5 pounds. He had a really really weird growth pattern for sure, did not follow ANY chart or method described, he had periods where he didn't gain an ounce and yet his body was changing.


Some pups are like that, our two are not normal I don't think though... so I try to remember it's not the norm. 

Love the new name for Bijou!

I think any dog under 10 lbs is "small". Laurel at around the 11 lb mark starts to seem not so small to me, but that's just me. She also is vv. tall.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

I know my toy poodle hovers between 8-10 pounds and he has really long legs, he towers over the Chi's! it's hilarious to think at one time I thought he was so small! :lol:


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

Ok, I hate getting in on the weight discussion but.... LOL

I have 2 that are under 5lbs as adults & both were over 2lbs by 15 weeks. They were both over 2lbs by 10 weeks even. Maya may even have been as well but we didn't have her during that time so I can't say for sure. But she was about the same weight as Mari was at 8 weeks so I'm guessing she also was 2lbs by 10 weeks. 

Just adding my experience in.  When you get a Chi pup...you just have to find a breeder you can trust if size is important to you. One that knows genetics. While even sometimes that isn't fool proof it's the closest you can get to "guessing" adult size.

I do hope that little pup is ok. I do admit he looks a bit off the poor thing.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Heather, I do think genetics can be in play and a pup over 2 lb at 15 weeks can be smaller than 6 lbs...but idk...for the most part,...it hasn't rung false. I guess I give it as a guideline of "if size is super important, ...keep this in mind". But there are exceptions to every rule.


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

Oh & my little Marley - I wonder what I would have gotten for an estimated adult weight on him when I first brought him home at 8 weeks? LOL He weighed 2lbs 8oz at 8 weeks. At 1yo he is 5lbs 14.5oz (as of yesterday). And he's been there for a couple months now.

All mine have been very odd as far as weight gain goes. Maybe I just have a weird bunch. hehe


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

flippedstars said:


> Heather, I do think genetics can be in play and a pup over 2 lb at 15 weeks can be smaller than 6 lbs...but idk...for the most part,...it hasn't rung false. I guess I give it as a guideline of "if size is super important, ...keep this in mind". But there are exceptions to every rule.


Oh definitely - if I wanted a pup to stay really small I'd keep that in mind. But it just proves really you just never know with the bigger puppies, just what they are going to do size wise.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

MChis said:


> When you get a Chi pup...you just have to find a breeder you can trust if size is important to you. One that knows genetics. While even sometimes that isn't fool proof it's the closest you can get to "guessing" adult size.


I think that is the crux of it right there.
When size matters the random willy nilly "well this pup looks like it won't get very big" is not the way to go.
You need to work with a breeder who KNOWS their lines, has a clearly demonstrated past with it and has other examples that have matured that you can see, much like what Flipped said about Bryco's breeder.
Bijou's breeder owns the Dams and the sires and she has been refining her breeding program over the past 14 years and knows what dog paired with what dog will produce what result, there IS a science to it.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> S
> Love the new name for Bijou!


Thanks! it just sort of came to me, once he was here he really didn't look like a link.


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Thanks for that I'm gonna read up on it now


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Just read up a bit about Hydro and seen a utube vid and was near on in tears.. Glad I understand what it is now but oh that little dog, sure did hit my heart strings hard.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Yeah it's really sad Deme.


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

The thing that got me was the saying, this is my handicapped dog.. I saw past the disabilities and saw a loving playful puppy. All I wanted to do was pick the pup up and cuddle it.

But I am a sucker for the less abled animals, if I had the land and resources I'd take in as many resues as I could.


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

Deme it is truly sad. Zoey has a mild form of it. She has seizures on occasion and has a permanent 'bump' on her head (excess pressure). She is one of the lucky ones as many don't make it to their first birthday. The reason I was asking on this pup is his head is so big & round (odd) shaped, and his eyes are 'off' which are tell tale signs of it.


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## Ivy's mom (Feb 15, 2008)

He is a cutie pie, but I do see a problem with the eyes as well. He doesn't seem to have that "life" in his eyes. Poor thing! Hopefully we are wrong and it is just the camera affecting them, but hard to say unless he can be seem on video or in person. As far as size goes, I think it can be hit and miss. I wanted Ivy and Fern to be in the 3lb range and they are, but I did my homework with them.With Willow I wanted a dog over the 6 lb range and got one. The bigger ones are much easier to handle saftey wise but I am a sucker for the tiny ones. They have a special place in my heart, I am just attracted to them more. Not that I don't love Willow any less it's just if it were just me I would have wanted a tiny one when I bought willow but she is a PERFECT kid doggy they can pick her up and handle her without me telling them to be careful. I have to keep an eye on ivy and fern more closely.

Lori 

Lori


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

i made the pic bigger and took out the red eye to see his eyes better , as much as he is a gorgeous puppy i would steer clear of him as well , if she is really interested in him get her to ask the breeder to take some more pics outside in better light .


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## LDMomma (Mar 28, 2009)

I don't know if it's hydro but something looks "off" to me. I would agree that that puppy is at least 1.5 pounds. I would hazard a guess closer to 2 pounds at this point.

Daisy was over 2 pounds at 16 weeks. Of course, we were heavily supplementing her foods because she needed to break the 2# mark before she could get treatment for tape worms. I think she was 10 weeks when she broke 2#. She is currently tipping the scales at 5.2 pounds this am.


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## CindeRae (Jun 20, 2010)

Yeah, something looks not quite right to me either. Whether its hydro or not, I don't know, but I would pass on him just seeing the pics. He doesn't seem as alert as his littermates. That alone would make me worry! Too bad. =(


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

If a pup is 2 lbs. at 8 weeks, it will be a larger Chi. Could mature out at somewhere around 7 lbs., or end up 10 lbs. So yes, while you will not know if it will be 7 or 10 until they are full grown, it would be very far fetched to expect it to mature out under 6 lbs. 

Chi pups gain on an average of 3 ounces a week until they are around 28 weeks old. During growth spurts it will be more. After that they will slowly put on somewhere around 1 lb. from 28 weeks until 18 months/2 years. 

If you have one that is having some tummy trouble, as Kristi's Bryco did, they may only gain 1 to 2 ounces a week as he did. But once the problem is corrected, they will go on to pick up where they left off. Meaning you will notice larger spurts of weight until he/she is caught up. 

Rule of thumb. Don't expect something that is highly unlikely. A Chi that weighs 1.5 to 2 lbs. at 12 weeks/14 weeks can easily, and most likely will be somewhere around 5 lbs. grown. More than that, and you are looking at over standard size. Don't even bother using the charts. They do not work.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

It's too bad that the breeder doesn't hold on to the lil pup until she knows for sure whether something is wrong with the lil guy. It's so sad when breeders place pups like that in new homes, and the new owners end up broke, and heartbroken.


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## Ivy's mom (Feb 15, 2008)

T... I totally agree it took Ivy and Fern forever just To hit the 1 lb mark, so I don't see this pup staying in the range. Gosh...Ivy was 9 oz. At around 12 weeks and Fern was almost as close, maybe a smidge bigger, but they are both the same weight now. And not even close to the 4 lb mark now.

Lori



TLI said:


> If a pup is 2 lbs. at 8 weeks, it will be a larger Chi. Could mature out at somewhere around 7 lbs., or end up 10 lbs. So yes, while you will not know if it will be 7 or 10 until they are full grown, it would be very far fetched to expect it to mature out under 6 lbs.
> 
> Chi pups gain on an average of 3 ounces a week until they are around 28 weeks old. During growth spurts it will be more. After that they will slowly put on somewhere around 1 lb. from 28 weeks until 18 months/2 years.
> 
> ...


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## unchienne (Mar 29, 2009)

Just my opinion but he doesn't look hydro to me. He has a big head, but my Tilly did as well at that age. I don't think he's going to grow into 1 1/2 pound adult tho. Larger than that, though still very small. 

The thing I'm most concerned about is that he looks so lethargic in all of his shots. Low blood sugar? If so, is she a reputable breeder that knows about this condition and how to correct it? Tilly was a tiny puppy, but she was rabid hamster the first time I saw her...eyes all glittering and aware. Maybe she snapped these right after he woke up? But his siblings look pretty aware of their surroundings.

I think I'd insist on a vet check before buying, and see him in person to gauge his motor functions and alertness.


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