# After having pups when should next season start



## jimjanie.wanadoo.co.uk (Jan 11, 2005)

this is first time i have bred my dogs, is it exactly six months from first day of last season thankyou


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

it will be roughly six months yes - you do not plan to breed her again do you ? as you need to rest her again now and not breed each season :wave:


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

when is the litter due? how old are the male and female?


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## jimjanie.wanadoo.co.uk (Jan 11, 2005)

*next season*

No i do not plan to breed again while next year, just that my boy is very interested in both my girls, must be the spring air, i'll just keep an eye on him, they should not come into season at least another month, i think he knows this, thanks for your replys


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

are they smooth or longs - be great to see pics of them


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## TomCan Chihuahuas (Feb 25, 2005)

ozzysmom said:


> it will be roughly six months yes - you do not plan to breed her again do you ? as you need to rest her again now and not breed each season :wave:


So you think Mother Nature is stupid?
If the dog whelped a litter of 1-2 it will be fine to rebreed. A litter of 5 or more she might need to skip. Where do you people get your opinions? Actually it could be detrimental to skip heat cycles. Most good breeders breed 2 and skip one. A litter of 1 verses a litter of 7 does not quite have the same effect on the dam. Are you a breeder or advice giver? Actually skipping heats can be dangerous to a breeding bitch.


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

"So you think Mother Nature is stupid? 
If the dog whelped a litter of 1-2 it will be fine to rebreed. A litter of 5 or more she might need to skip. Where do you people get your opinions? Actually it could be detrimental to skip heat cycles. Most good breeders breed 2 and skip one. A litter of 1 verses a litter of 7 does not quite have the same effect on the dam. Are you a breeder or advice giver? Actually skipping heats can be dangerous to a breeding bitch."

YOU ARE HONESTLY THE MOST RUDEST PERSON I HAVE EVER ENCOUNTERED.

I am not a breeder but have researched breeding alot but do not have the time to do breeding at this stage in my life but would love to in the future, from my reseach I have always read that it is cruel to breed a bitch every single season and is better to her to rest her every other season and if I was wrong why would the Kennel Club in England only allow breeders to register one litter of pups each year per bitch - the answer because they believe to have more than 1 litter per year is over breeding the dog


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

Aslo Tomcan our dogs arent in the wild anymore - and do you really think mother nature intended woman to have a child every 9 months :shock: because just cos its possible doesnt neccesarily mean its right Tom can


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## KB (Apr 13, 2004)

How many times MUST we tell you that you are RUDE??????? I would have given the same advice Ozzy's mom did.....

Must you always cram your opinion down peoples throat? There is a nice way of saying things and stating YOUR views! 
:x


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## MissMolly (Jan 28, 2005)

I'm not a breeder nor will I ever breed, but even I know that you have to skip a season so that the female can rest no matter how many pups are in the litter. :x


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

i dont think this person should be allowed access to the breeders section until they have proved they are no longer a rude individual but a good team player - it is great to give your opinion and your advice but their are ways to do it - you are one pof those people who only believe you are right , well I think you are WRONG how does that feel ?


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

Tom do you breed or show chihuahuas?


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## my3angels (Apr 15, 2004)

Of course you dont breed a bitch every cycle...I honistly wonder where you get your facts from.Any good breeder only has a couple litters a year! If you overbread your bitch she can have serious complecations...these are not wild animals...they are not built to breed ever cycle...they are way too small to handle it. 
Where is KJ?? I bet she would have a lot to say...being a responsible breeder and all


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## KJsChihuahuas (Jan 6, 2005)

You guys Tom is only here to start problems, you need to remember to ignore these type of people. You are fueling the fire. I wont waste my time trying to explain how to breed or breeding ethics to someone who is that ignorant. :roll:


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

Your right Lori - personally I think the TROLL should be banned :twisted:


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## KJsChihuahuas (Jan 6, 2005)

Me too


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

It would be interesting to know what a responsible breeder thinks on this subject for reference thopugh and the theory behind it - for all of us who arent experienced as much - if you dont mind


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## KJsChihuahuas (Jan 6, 2005)

Well sure!!!  

As for having a small litter and thinking would be ok for the bitch to be bred next heat cycle is complete ignorance. Having a litter is having a litter no matter if the litter is big or small. You should never breed a bitch under the age of 18m old and never over the age of 6. And should only breed her every other heat cycle. If you are breeding every heat cycle she does not have time to recover from the last litter. You should never breed for money only to enhance the quality of the breed. You should only breed AKC bitches and dogs, because that is the only Kennel club that can be shown. You should never breed a bitch that is under 4 lbs, this is a disasters waiting to happen. Not only are you looking at a c-section, but the possibility of a ruptured uterus because the bitch is so small and doent have the room for puppies. 
When you are breeding and your bitch is "standing" or excepting the male, you should never breed more than 3 times in a week, one day in one day out example: mon-weds-fri this save the litter from having the "runt" and make the litter more even sized, and gives the stud time to produce a higher sperm count. 

If there are any question please feel free to ask.


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

Thanks Lori - great advice


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## KJsChihuahuas (Jan 6, 2005)

You are more than welcome!!!


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## TeresaAnn20 (Oct 19, 2004)

KJsChihuahuas said:


> Well sure!!!
> 
> As for having a small litter and thinking would be ok for the bitch to be bred next heat cycle is complete ignorance. Having a litter is having a litter no matter if the litter is big or small. You should never breed a bitch under the age of 18m old and never over the age of 6. And should only breed her every other heat cycle. If you are breeding every heat cycle she does not have time to recover from the last litter. You should never breed for money only to enhance the quality of the breed. You should only breed AKC bitches and dogs, because that is the only Kennel club that can be shown. You should never breed a bitch that is under 4 lbs, this is a disasters waiting to happen. Not only are you looking at a c-section, but the possibility of a ruptured uterus because the bitch is so small and doent have the room for puppies.
> When you are breeding and your bitch is "standing" or excepting the male, you should never breed more than 3 times in a week, one day in one day out example: mon-weds-fri this save the litter from having the "runt" and make the litter more even sized, and gives the stud time to produce a higher sperm count.
> ...


 :cheers: Greatly put Kj I couldn't have said it better myself...


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## Myra_Johnny (Jul 23, 2004)

Actually a heat cycle does the same damage to her uterus as a small litter that may be why Tom said that. What does harm to a bitch is keeping the pups nursing on her too long not breeding every heat. I mean there are time when a bitch has to rest but breeding every heat after small litter does the bitch no more harm than her usual heat cycle would.. 

Smiles, 
Myra


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

TOM Can has issues he is on another list and has problems there also. I dont even think he owns a chi or shows but he is rude there also. not sure if he has been banned yet


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## LadyBelle1 (Sep 10, 2005)

Tom first of all I would like to ask you for PROOF that these 2 statements you have made are true.

Actually it could be detrimental to skip heat cycles. 
and
Actually skipping heats can be dangerous to a breeding bitch. 

Do you have proof if so I would like to see it. I am sorry to tell you that apparently you do not know much about females because if you breed them every heat cycle there uterus does not have time to heal effectively and it could collapse which will make them unable to be bred in the future, and breeding that often can cause severe hip and pelvis problems also, it doesn't matter if they have 1 or 5 each time a bitch has pups her pelvis has to widen to deliver pups. I am also wondering what type of breeding experience you have if any. I have bred chi's before and also helped a brother of mine breed chocolate labs.


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## Myra_Johnny (Jul 23, 2004)

Watch the video called Maximizing Neonatal Survival and Puppy Health. Watch it all Dr. Hutch talks about this issue. He states that when a bitch goes into season it damages her uterus just as much as when the are pregnant!!



http://www.iamscompanybreeders.com/...line_Seminars_Page.jhtml?li=en_US&pti=OS&sc=D


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## LadyBelle1 (Sep 10, 2005)

hmmm can you tell me exactly where the part is that says you should breed a bitch every season? I have watched the video and none of them have said that, but maybe I am looking in the wrong place? I am not trying to be a pain I just like having proof, the only thing I heard him say is if a dog has a c-section and he puts the uterus back in and it is nice and pink and healthy you can breed her the next season, the problem I have with this is that what if the dog didn't have a c-section so you have no way of knowing if the uterus is healthy or not, plus if you notice in the video he does not talk about the pelvis widening or any other effects that whelping has on the bitch. When I bred dogs my mom and dad bred their bitch the 2nd and 3rd heat cycle and then I told them if they bred her again it would probably kill her so they spayed her. She has been spayed for about 4 years now and you should see this poor chi and how bow legged she walks. I am sorry to say this but if you really think about it in my opinion 21 days in a heat cycle is no way going to have an impact on a chi's body compared to 63 days pregnant and then another 8 weeks nursing puppies. IMHO chi's are suppose to be your pets if you want to breed them that is fine with me but they should not be used as machines that just pump out babies every time they go into heat so people can make money off of them. 

P.S. I have still not gotten any proof that says quote "actually it could be detrimental to skip heat cycles" 
No where on that video does it say that if you skip a heat cycle it will effect the bitch in a negative way. Can you tell me where it says that going into season damages her uterus as much as being pregnant? How many minutes into the video does he state this? Its around the 47 minute where he talks about the uterus but I watched the entire thing and still did not hear what you said he stated.


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## JOLIE'SMOM (Jul 15, 2005)

[quote="TomCan Chihuahuas
So you think Mother Nature is stupid?
If the dog whelped a litter of 1-2 it will be fine to rebreed. A litter of 5 or more she might need to skip. Where do you people get your opinions? Actually it could be detrimental to skip heat cycles. Most good breeders breed 2 and skip one. A litter of 1 verses a litter of 7 does not quite have the same effect on the dam. Are you a breeder or advice giver? Actually skipping heats can be dangerous to a breeding bitch.[/quote]


Myyy Goodness,that is one rude dude! :shock:


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## Myra_Johnny (Jul 23, 2004)

If you really pay attention around the time he is talking about the uterus he mentions something about the progesterone during a heat cycle damages the uterus lining. Would be good to pay attention so you don't miss anything. about being bow-legged wow that's a first, my aunt breeds two heats them rests one unless the bitch had a difficult whelping and none of her bitch are bow legged. Why don't you provide proof that even after a small litter and no problems during whelp a bitch should rest?? And that after breeding two heats in a row they get bow legged, I just never heard of it but I am not saying it can't happen. 

Smiles, 
Myra


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## LadyBelle1 (Sep 10, 2005)

ok here are some websites that you can look at. Everyone of them says that you should not breed a bitch over and over again. I think what really really upset me about this post was that when you have no idea of the health of the persons dog, or genetics , or pedigree you should in no way advise them that breeding there dogs every heat cycle is ok. As for the link that you gave me I was paying attention and you said he stated something when in fact he did not. 
http://www.vipoodle.org/docs/facbb.htm

http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Frequency of Breeding.htm

http://www.borzoiclubofamerica.org/guide.htm

http://www.ibizan.freeservers.com/find.htm

http://www.goldengatecorgis.org/aboutus/about.htm

http://www.canecorsoinfo.org/question_breeder.htm

http://www.esmondrott.com/questions.htm

I think I have wasted enough of my time on this question so I am going to go on and try to help other people.


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## Myra_Johnny (Jul 23, 2004)

> Ideally, a bitch should not be bred more often than every other heat. However, in some instances (i.e., age, availability of the stud dog, etc.) it may be appropriate to breed a bitch on two consecutive heats. A bitch should never be bred on more than two consecutive heats. A bitch under two years of age is not mentally or physically mature enough to be bred. Bitches over 7 years old may have age-related complications during whelping. A bitch should not have more than 3 or 4 litters in her lifetime.


I may not be reading right but it states that it may be appropriate to breed a bitch on two consecutive heats. And that there are factors that should be taken into consideration. Hum that sounds something like what I have stated?? Sorry but all the site are breeders and just opinions I don't see research. I nerver stated things that weren't said. Yes he was referring to a c-section but it was said. About damage caused to the uterus was also said so hwta did I not mention??




> I think what really really upset me about this post was that when you have no idea of the health of the persons dog, or genetics , or pedigree you should in no way advise them that breeding there dogs every heat cycle is ok.


I wasn't advising them to breed just stating what I haver read. I never said go breed your bitch it's ok.... Every bitch is different and the bitch owner should know in what state their bitch is and if it would be appropriate to breed her two consecutive heats. All I know is if "my" bitch had one puppy but had a difficult time delivering that would be a cause to skip a heat. like a said all depends on the bitch.. Don't get me wrong I would in no way hurt my girls I love them that's why I have done so much research and not just jumped into this all. we all have opinions and I respect that. just wqanted to mention that so you don't think I hate anybody for not agreeing with me! :lol: 

Smiles, 
Myra


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## LadyBelle1 (Sep 10, 2005)

Maybe I should explain why I got into this discussion. It was because of this quote from Tom...Actually skipping heats can be dangerous to a breeding bitch. 
Now how the heck can it be *dangerous* ? I was hoping to get a reply from Tom explaining this. I mean does he actually think that breeding a dog does not put her life at risk every time she is bred? So many things can go wrong when a bitch is whelping puppies. So if he wants to say skipping a heat is dangerous let him explain, I mean is it going to kill the bitch?, no it is not but whelping puppies might very well kill her which is dangerous.


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## luv4mygirls (Feb 20, 2005)

wow he brings drama everywhere he goes doesn't he.... 


my vet disagree's with breeding a bitch every cycle. especially if a c-section was needed. 

research is a funny thing. researches find a lot of conflicting information. one study can show one thing while another study can show another. for me it comes down to what's ethical. i wouldn't want to keep popping babies out every 9 months. so when i decide to breed none of my bitches will pop babies out every heat cycle.


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## chihuahua-lady (Apr 13, 2005)

luv4mygirls said:


> wow he brings drama everywhere he goes doesn't he....
> 
> 
> my vet disagree's with breeding a bitch every cycle. especially if a c-section was needed.
> ...



i so agree when i breed its gonna be a very rare litter lol plus id never ever breed a chi after its had a c section but thats just my opinion


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