# Orijen ?



## zellko

I bought a trial bag of Orijen. Both dogs love it, BUT can't really manage the big kibble size. Do any of you feed it and what do you do? I don't see a small dog version. I've thought of pulverizing it in the blender.


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## SinisterKisses

BEST FOOD EVER.

Weird that your guys are having a hard time with the kibble size though. Finley has eaten their puppy food, which has the same size kibbles as their other varieties, since he was bout 8 or 9 weeks old and a tiny 1.5lbs. It slowed him down a bit at the time, as he was used to a much smaller kibble, but he had no problem with it. Now, at four months old and 3.7lbs, he doesn't even chew half the time lol. Gizmo has no problem with it either, and he's 5lbs.

You could try adding a bit of warm water to it to soften the kibbles, which will make it easier to chew.

Not sure what the variety the trial bag you have is, but I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend their Six Fish version over the regular adult


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## Onyx

I feed a wide variety of foods, Orijen Tundra kibble included. Onyx has absolutely no problems crunching right through them. She has tried all of their different flavors.

The only thing I can think of is to soak it in warm water, which was already suggested. If you pulverize it you will be left with a dry powder which might be even more uncomfortable to eat. I would recommend adding warm water to that too anyway.


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## MMS

I have fed Orijen. My dogs love it. It is actually their working dog line, though, and has too high protein for long term feeding to your standard pets. We only use it when we are doing a lot of hiking.

If you want the same quality for long term feeding, I suggest Acana - same company, just a lower protein line for your typical house dog (and I believe the kibble are smaller).


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## zellko

Thanks for the good info. Think I'll just use it for training treats. Acana was too high protein for Mickey so Orijen may not be the food for us. The kibble size of Wellness Core, Merrick, and the even tinier Wellness Toy breed suits him better. Was hoping to add another quality kibble to our rotation. Mickey insists on variety. lol


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## Chiluv04

Yep, I know of others who digs didn't do well on Orijen and Acana because of the higher protein content. If you can, take at look at Fromm, the kibble a are teeny weeny and just the perfect size for tiny Piper.


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## zellko

I've tried several varieties and mine aren't crazy about Fromm. Too bad, it's sold right around the corner from us by a great private pet store.


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## Chiluv04

zellko said:


> I've tried several varieties and mine aren't crazy about Fromm. Too bad, it's sold right around the corner from us by a great private pet store.


Awww that is too bad, it's the only one I know of with teeny tiny kibble a. Merrick is the only other that has small kibbles just a tad bigger than Fromm.


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## Onyx

MMS said:


> I have fed Orijen. My dogs love it. It is actually their working dog line, though, and has too high protein for long term feeding to your standard pets. We only use it when we are doing a lot of hiking.
> 
> If you want the same quality for long term feeding, I suggest Acana - same company, just a lower protein line for your typical house dog (and I believe the kibble are smaller).


Orijen is not marketed to any specific type of dog. Saying it is too high in protein for our house Chis is a very blanket statement. Dog's do not have one ideal protein percentage. Some do amazing on low protein, some need high protein. My girl is getting older and is far from an athlete. Yet it is an absolute MUST that she eat a diet high in protein because a diet with a higher amount of carbs causes her to gain a ridiculous amount of weight, despite eating less calories.

Because individual dogs have individual needs, I don't think you can make statements such as a food is too high in protein. You need to know the dog's needs first.

As for Acana kibble size, the kibble is actually larger but a little less dense.


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## Onyx

zellko said:


> Thanks for the good info. Think I'll just use it for training treats. Acana was too high protein for Mickey so Orijen may not be the food for us. The kibble size of Wellness Core, Merrick, and the even tinier Wellness Toy breed suits him better. Was hoping to add another quality kibble to our rotation. Mickey insists on variety. lol


Amicus is a kibble made specifically for small breeds so the kibble size is pretty small. It's a pretty good food. Nature's Variety Instinct has TINY kibble but some of their formulas are a bit high in ash so that's something to keep in mind. Annamaet small breed formula is good stuff with small kibbles. Farmina also makes mini bites but can be hard to find. All of Nature's Logic formulas are tiny. Those are all of the ones I can think of right now


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## MMS

Onyx said:


> Orijen is not marketed to any specific type of dog. Saying it is too high in protein for our house Chis is a very blanket statement. Dog's do not have one ideal protein percentage. Some do amazing on low protein, some need high protein. My girl is getting older and is far from an athlete. Yet it is an absolute MUST that she eat a diet high in protein because a diet with a higher amount of carbs causes her to gain a ridiculous amount of weight, despite eating less calories.
> 
> Because individual dogs have individual needs, I don't think you can make statements such as a food is too high in protein. You need to know the dog's needs first.
> 
> As for Acana kibble size, the kibble is actually larger but a little less dense.


No, it is not MARKETED to a specific type of dog, just as Blue Wilderness is not, but it was developed for a specific type of dog (I know, because I worked for BB when it first came out, and we were told that). They just jumped on a bandwagon then and are trying to reach as many people as possible to make as many sales as possible.

There is a huge difference between low carb and high protein. The 2 terms are not interchangeable. And since it is not required for pet food companies to weight their carbohydrate content, it is hard to say what they are, exactly. High protein does nothing for a dog who isn't using it to feed muscle growth. They just pee it out (well, they turn it into nitrates and then pee it out). Actually, many foods now claiming to be "high protein" get that protein from plant sources, which also raises the carbohydrate count. To be fair, all plant matter adds to the protein count, especially seeds and dark leafy greens. 

As far as animal protein goes, unless it is listed as a "meal" it is typically listed wet matter weight, which means it should be listed farther down when all the water is cooked out of it (for example, if the ingredients list "whole chicken" and "chicken meal" there is actually more chicken meal applicable to the ingredients then there is whole chicken, since raw meat is mostly water weight - so it should really be listed "chicken meal," whatever the next 2 ingredients are, "whole chicken"). Grains are also high in protein as well as carbs. Which is why all the cheap crappy food producers can get away with making corn based foods - because they are still getting the "right nutrient levels."

.


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## Onyx

Yes, if you want little to no carbs you are going to be feeding a diet either high in protein or fat, or a mixture of both. You are welcome to show me a dry food out there that is extremely low carb and low in protein.

I am aware how the nutritional label of dog food works. I am not concerned with ingredients so much as the nutrition those ingredients provide. I feed very low carbs and in turn very high protein. Due to my dog's history of weight gain on high carb foods, her vet recommended trying more protein and less carbs. As much as we all do our own research, I am much more inclined to take the advice of a veterinarian that knows my dog's needs on a personal level than someone over the internet 

Currently my dog is on a premade raw food (higher protein than Orijen) and despite eating MORE calories she has lost all of the extra weight. Never have I heard only working dogs should eat raw.

Her raw is 19% protein, which to meet her calorie needs she would eat 82g of it. That means she gets 15.58g of protein from this food. Compare that to her needing 31.5g of Orijen at 38% protein, she would be getting 11.97g of protein. Orijen is already a pretty high protein low carb food, raw is typically even higher in protein and lower in carbs. Everyone has their own opinions and beliefs. I personally would never believe raw is only appropriate for a working dog simply because it is high in meat.

It is fine for everyone to have their own opinion and feeding methods. What isn't fine is assuming every dog should be fed the same way. What is or isn't appropriate for YOUR dogs doesn't mean it will or won't be for my dogs, or others.


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## zellko

MMS, Wow! That's really awesome info. I have to ask, what do you feed yours now? Do you still work with dog food?


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## MMS

Onyx said:


> Yes, if you want little to no carbs you are going to be feeding a diet either high in protein or fat, or a mixture of both. You are welcome to show me a dry food out there that is extremely low carb and low in protein.
> 
> I am aware how the nutritional label of dog food works. I am not concerned with ingredients so much as the nutrition those ingredients provide. I feed very low carbs and in turn very high protein. Due to my dog's history of weight gain on high carb foods, her vet recommended trying more protein and less carbs. As much as we all do our own research, I am much more inclined to take the advice of a veterinarian that knows my dog's needs on a personal level than someone over the internet
> 
> Currently my dog is on a premade raw food (higher protein than Orijen) and despite eating MORE calories she has lost all of the extra weight. Never have I heard only working dogs should eat raw.
> 
> Her raw is 19% protein, which to meet her calorie needs she would eat 82g of it. That means she gets 15.58g of protein from this food. Compare that to her needing 31.5g of Orijen at 38% protein, she would be getting 11.97g of protein. Orijen is already a pretty high protein low carb food, raw is typically even higher in protein and lower in carbs. Everyone has their own opinions and beliefs. I personally would never believe raw is only appropriate for a working dog simply because it is high in meat.
> And here is where things get tricky. There is a difference between being high in meat, and being high in protein. As you said, what you're feeding now - her raw is 19% protein, vs the 38% in Orijen - because of water. That extra moisture is necessary to flush the unneeded protein through the system. Orijen doesn't provide that - and since dogs have a dull thirst sensor (since they are designed to get most of their water from their food) they generally do not drink enough to meet that need on their own. Raw is actually not considered to be high protein, because of the included water weight.
> 
> It is fine for everyone to have their own opinion and feeding methods. What isn't fine is assuming every dog should be fed the same way. What is or isn't appropriate for YOUR dogs doesn't mean it will or won't be for my dogs, or others.
> 
> I never claimed that every dog should be fed the same way. That is ludicrous. I never said that you, or anyone else, needed to change what you fed. All I said was that the high protein formulas were designed for highly active dogs. You are using your one dog, who is obviously not the "standard house dog" (my exact words) I was talking about. But there is a rash of dogs suffering from kidney damage due to eating a dry food too high in protein for their activity level since the "high protein" trend hit. I am just trying to help keep people informed.





zellko said:


> MMS, Wow! That's really awesome info. I have to ask, what do you feed yours now? Do you still work with dog food?


I rotate through many different foods. This month they are getting Zignature's fish based food, THK Love (grain free beef), and whatever raw I pull out of the freezer that day. 

I do not work with BB anymore. I got tired of the politics. Now I work directly with dogs, and it is so much better!


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## Onyx

I agree 100% that moisture is extremely important. This is why I add water to any kibble my dog eats. I think adding water (if your dog is willing to eat it that way) makes feeding a high protein dry food perfectly fine. My point with the raw was that she actually consumes MORE protein on raw than she does on say Orijen. I think if your dog gets the same amount of moisture with their kibble as they would with raw or canned, then the protein level is fine. I definitely agree that a diet that consists of nothing but dry excessive protein is a huge no no. When you said "high protein isn't good for house dogs" I did not realize you were talking of just dry foods. I still don't think high protein kibbles are bad though so long as adequate moisture is consumed with it. I don't think that's a reason to avoid high protein kibble as a whole, just my opinion though. I'm more worried about the effects of eating nothing but a highly processed food like that.

As for her not being a standard house dog... I sure think she is! Lol. She sleeps most of the day and doesn't tolerate walks longer than about 20minutes. Just a lazy pet


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## zellko

Thanks for the info. I've never tried those foods. Will look into them. I would like to go raw and have the meat, but Piper can't tolerate any liver, so I still have many questions.


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## AngelicMisfit13

My puppy is currently on a 100% raw diet.  Should stay away from Merrick, they were bought by Purina.


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## zellko

My pet store told me and I'm very upset. Currently looking for a new canned food for her that is US sourced and doesn't contain liver. Hard to find!


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## MMS

zellko said:


> My pet store told me and I'm very upset. Currently looking for a new canned food for her that is US sourced and doesn't contain liver. Hard to find!


Ooooo good luck with that one! That's gonna be tough.

Why no liver? Just out of curiosity.


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## zellko

Foods with even small amounts give her the 'runs'. I can't even use Merrick varieties that have liver. And Merrick's time as a good food is limited. Purina will start messing with the formula.


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## MMS

Ahhh that's no fun! Food sensitivities are the worst. If I come across any good ones, I will let you know.


As a side note - I am officially withdrawing my vote for Addiction products. My cats (who, unlike some are not all that picky and truly love to eat) would touch neither the dry nor the dehydrated. Superb waste of money, there. Added on top of that, I am personally not happy with the texture of the dehydrated - when dry, it looks like granola, which would be fine if it didn't reconstitute like Dollar Store mashed potatoes! I honestly do not blame the cats for snubbing it.


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## Springhillsarah

My daughter works at a pet store and sells a lot of Orijen, but she didn't think it was a good fit for us because we have 2 3-lb chi's and a 9-lb shih-tzu. So we really need to free feed. We switched from Halo to Fromms, and are really happy with the results.


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## SinisterKisses

Why the need to free-feed? My three have always been on a feeding schedule, they get breakfast and dinner 12 hours apart.


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## pigeonsheep

Dex loves his orijen. We free feed here too but he doesn't even touch his full bowl of food until I start to hand feed him at night. Some can be broken into two pieces which I do just to get him started on a few and then he goes downtown on the rest lmao. KC had no issues at all with the size even though she has very little teeth left. We tried acan which is cheaper but the kibbles were more hard and larger. I could see that dex was enjoying the orijen more with his tail wagging &#55357;&#56833;


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## Springhillsarah

My chihuahuas don't have a huge appetite but our Shih Tzu does. Liza (the Shih Tzu) will eat all the food and none is left for the chihuahuas. We found with free feeding, Liza doesn't hoard away the food. And our chi's are so small (3 lbs), I always worry about hypoglycemia, so I don't like them to be without kibble. Good question though. We're very happy with Fromm's. We were doing Halo, but one of the chi's was getting dandruff. Within weeks of switching to Fromms the dandruff went away.



SinisterKisses said:


> Why the need to free-feed? My three have always been on a feeding schedule, they get breakfast and dinner 12 hours apart.


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