# Food Recommendations



## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

Okay, so after some detective work and vet visits, I'm pretty sure Odie has a food intolerance. She seems to do well on duck so she's going to be on just duck for a month to see how it goes and then we can think about adding another protein. Thankfully we have a bag of Primal duck on hand and she goes crazy for it and the online store (the only one in Canada that carries Primal if you can believe that) that we just ordered a box full of Primal from is letting us send some of our unopened bags back to exchange for the duck formula. Odie still eats three meals a day, so I'd like to add something else to add some variety. She also still throws up bile in the mornings if she doesn't snack during the night, so I also would like to find a kibble or something that is okay staying out during the night for her to graze on. However, I'm having trouble finding anything.

I spent my Saturday night researching foods and the problem is that a lot of the limited ingredient foods aren't as good quality as the foods she used to eat. I'm still going to see if I can find some raw duck because I'm worried about her teeth since we've had to stop chicken necks, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to. Anyway, these are the foods that I found that have less questionable ingredients than others. What do you think?

Wellness Simple (Canned) - 4 stars

Ingredients: Duck, Oatmeal, Peas, Ground Rice, Potato Protein, Tomato Pomace, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Ground Flaxseed, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Natural Duck Flavor, Chicory Root Extract, Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Beta-Carotene, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Biotin, Folic Acid], Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate], Choline Chloride, Mixed Tocopherols added to preserve freshness, Taurine, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Rosemary Extract, Green Tea Extract.

Nature's Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Duck (Canned) - 4 stars

Ingredients: Duck Meal, Tapioca, Peas, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Natural Flavor, Montmorillonite Clay, Coconut Oil, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Panthothenate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Sodium Selenite), Choline Chloride, Green Tea Extract, Rosemary Extract.

Acana Duck & Bartlett Pear (Kibble) - 4 stars

Ingredients: Duck meal, deboned duck, green lentils, red lentils, duck liver, pears, duck fat, green peas, yellow peas, algae, garbanzo beans, pumpkin, carrots, freeze-dried duck liver, kelp, chicory root, ginger root, peppermint leaf, lemon balm, mixed tocopherols (preservative), dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

Oh and there is also this Canadian one that isn't on dog food advisor but I saw in a store near me. It is definitely limited in ingredients, that's for sure! Here's the link in case anyone is interested. 

Pet Kind Duck 

Ingredients: Duck, Water, Quinoa, Açai Berry


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Hope that you find something that will work well for her!

She sounds like Hope. Hope cannot have chicken nor other warm proteins. She can only have cool proteins. Also NO grain nor dairy.

She gets a blend of Primal Duck and S&C Rabbit twice a day. She has been colitis episode free for over a year! The worst thing she has now is some tear staining. I can certainly live with that! 

I know how frustrating it can be to deal with food and digestive issues. I sure wish the best for you as you find something that will work for her.


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## elaina (Jul 1, 2008)

here is a suggestion... if you can, I would feed the first meal of the day alittle earlier than you usually do, and the last meal of the evening alittle later than you usually do and eliminate the other food that you want to add. then, just observe and see if she's still throwing up bile . maybe you need to increase her food amount of the primal duck for the last meal, so, I would try that also... 

I would try not to add a second food for variety just yet. because, like the Vet told you ... she is recommending a limited ingredient diet and if you add another food even if it is the same protein, there will be a lot more ingredients that are added to her diet and I would think it would be best to keep it limited ingredients for now at least. 

good luck !!! I hope you can figure this out soon !!! 

give Odie kisses from me


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Some of the better kibbles are: Acana, Orijen, Blue Buffalo grain free,Ziwi Peak-premade raw, Wysong epigean, and some of the California Naturals are limited ingredients.


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

jesuschick said:


> Hope that you find something that will work well for her!
> 
> She sounds like Hope. Hope cannot have chicken nor other warm proteins. She can only have cool proteins. Also NO grain nor dairy.
> 
> ...


Thanks Karen! It really is frustrating, but I'm glad that we're at least on the path to hopefully figuring things out. I'll look into ordering the S&C Rabbit when it comes time to add another protein. It's reassuring to hear that Hope is now doing great!



elaina said:


> here is a suggestion... if you can, I would feed the first meal of the day alittle earlier than you usually do, and the last meal of the evening alittle later than you usually do and eliminate the other food that you want to add. then, just observe and see if she's still throwing up bile . maybe you need to increase her food amount of the primal duck for the last meal, so, I would try that also...
> 
> I would try not to add a second food for variety just yet. because, like the Vet told you ... she is recommending a limited ingredient diet and if you add another food even if it is the same protein, there will be a lot more ingredients that are added to her diet and I would think it would be best to keep it limited ingredients for now at least.
> 
> ...


Elaine, that is good advice! You're probably right that I'm jumping the gun here. I think I'm just so used to offering her such a variety that I have a little anxiety about just feeding one thing! Haha. I will send back the other Primal formulas so hopefully the new bags will get here before we run out. I do feed her as soon as I wake up and make sure she has something right before bed, but she usually will wake up around 3-ish am to snack. Maybe I could leave 1/4 of a block of dry primal for her so it wouldn't go bad? I don't measure the amounts I give her, I feed her as much as she wants and she seems to self-regulate. 



susan davis said:


> Some of the better kibbles are: Acana, Orijen, Blue Buffalo grain free,Ziwi Peak-premade raw, Wysong epigean, and some of the California Naturals are limited ingredients.


Thanks Susan. She can't have Ziwi and we were feeding Acana before but the problem is all the ingredients. I will look into the others for the future.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

If you can get them raw duck necks are very popular with my lot. I can also get duck wings, and duck carcasses so definitely worth checking out any raw suppliers locally.
I would stick with just one food for now. I know it goes against your instinct to feed a wide variety, but it won't hurt because it is only for a few weeks, you really need to pin down what she isn't tolerating. I would just feed the primal for now, same variety at every meal. If you can get the freeze dried version you could leave that out at night, or something like the Orijen treats in the same protein. Plain dried meat would probably be best if you can get it.


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## zellko (Jul 3, 2013)

What the heck is a 'warm' protein and a 'cool' protein?


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

Wicked Pixie said:


> If you can get them raw duck necks are very popular with my lot. I can also get duck wings, and duck carcasses so definitely worth checking out any raw suppliers locally.
> I would stick with just one food for now. I know it goes against your instinct to feed a wide variety, but it won't hurt because it is only for a few weeks, you really need to pin down what she isn't tolerating. I would just feed the primal for now, same variety at every meal. If you can get the freeze dried version you could leave that out at night, or something like the Orijen treats in the same protein. Plain dried meat would probably be best if you can get it.


I think I'll go on a duck search tomorrow and see what I can find. I just picked up some of the Orijen freeze dried duck treats and she's very happy with the Primal so I'll stick with that for now (and the raw if I can find some). Thanks for your advice!


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Zellko-the link on cool versus warm proteins is in this thread:
http://www.chihuahua-people.com/chihuahua-diet-nutrition/127593-those-who-have-babies-sensitive-tummies.html


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## woodard2009 (Aug 4, 2010)

I just wanted to mention that not all duck is created equal, so be careful. Like Wicked said, I would just stick with Primal and see how Odie does. Other duck formulas have a lot, and I mean a lot of different additives. I'm sort of in the same boat with Midgie and have been feeding a combo of Primal Duck and S&C Rabbit and ZP, but I'm phasing out ZP. She is doing incredibly great on the Duck and rabbit. If you are wanting to offer a snack after the month of duck is over, I would considered dehydrating your own tripe or liver or whatever you think would work for her. On another note, I don't know how much per meal you're feeding, but have you considered increasing her feedings so she can make it through the night, instead of worrying about feeding in the middle of the night? Just a suggestion. Be very careful with ingrediants in what you buy. Soy does not do well with many animals and it's in everything. Sounds like you've got a great plan and Odie's on her way to a speedy recovery.


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

woodard2009 said:


> I just wanted to mention that not all duck is created equal, so be careful. Like Wicked said, I would just stick with Primal and see how Odie does. Other duck formulas have a lot, and I mean a lot of different additives. I'm sort of in the same boat with Midgie and have been feeding a combo of Primal Duck and S&C Rabbit and ZP, but I'm phasing out ZP. She is doing incredibly great on the Duck and rabbit. If you are wanting to offer a snack after the month of duck is over, I would considered dehydrating your own tripe or liver or whatever you think would work for her. On another note, I don't know how much per meal you're feeding, but have you considered increasing her feedings so she can make it through the night, instead of worrying about feeding in the middle of the night? Just a suggestion. Be very careful with ingrediants in what you buy. Soy does not do well with many animals and it's in everything. Sounds like you've got a great plan and Odie's on her way to a speedy recovery.


Thanks Lisa! I'm all ears since I've never had a dog with a food intolerance before. You're right and I've decided to just stick with the Primal now and the Orijen treats which are pure duck. I'm going to see if I can find some raw duck as well so she'll still have some bones to chew. She has had the throwing up bile problem ever since she was a puppy and we've tried shifting things around during the day, but it seems that no matter what, she's always looking for a snack in the middle of the night or she's sick all morning. I've always fed Primal for just breakfast so I'm going to do a meal RIGHT before bed (which we've tried before, but not with something as high value as Primal that she gulps down right away) and see how she does. If that doesn't work, then I'll just have to leave a tiny bit of dry Primal for her to snack on during the night.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

It is SO good that you are an ingredient checker! I was giving the girls S&C Duck treats (cool protein) and later discovered that one of them also contained turkey. No poultry for her and I did not even realize that they had turkey in them. 
I switched to the freeze dried duck treats for them and now we also offer them Whole Life Organics dehydrated sweet potatoes. 
They never get any kind of biscuit/cookie treat. TOO many ingredients. We have gotten really used to only giving them 2 foods and 2 different treats. It is so odd, to me because of what we have to do, to see and read people switching things up, offering treats of all kinds. That is just foreign to us. We could never be in a "treat of the month" club!


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

jesuschick said:


> It is SO good that you are an ingredient checker! I was giving the girls S&C Duck treats (cool protein) and later discovered that one of them also contained turkey. No poultry for her and I did not even realize that they had turkey in them.
> I switched to the freeze dried duck treats for them and now we also offer them Whole Life Organics dehydrated sweet potatoes.
> They never get any kind of biscuit/cookie treat. TOO many ingredients. We have gotten really used to only giving them 2 foods and 2 different treats. It is so odd, to me because of what we have to do, to see and read people switching things up, offering treats of all kinds. That is just foreign to us. We could never be in a "treat of the month" club!


I found the same thing when I was looking into different foods, even some of the limited ingredient formulas have a different protein hiding in there somewhere. Terrible! I think we will also stick to the single ingredient treats from now on. One of my friend's dogs will be very happy with all the treats I'm going to have to give away. Odie is just as happy with the duck treats as she is with any of the others so that's fine with me.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

I'm so sorry you and Odie are dealing with this issue, but finding it is half the battle. I thought Elaine agave excellent advice to broaden the time frame between your three feedings and increase the amount of the last feeding to make it through the night. I also agree that one food for right now is the best. It's just my opinion, but I think variety in foods and snacks may be satisfying us as humans sometimes more than our pets. I know every pet is different, but as far as Lulu is concerned she would eat the same food I put in front of her like it was the greatest thing she ever tasted 365 days a year! LOL As far as snacks--I never even buy a snack/treat. Lulu is thrilled to get a bit of goat cheese, piece of apple, pinch of whatever dog-friendly thing I have in my hand. My point because I know that Odie can't have those things on a limited diet is if you find 1 treat she can have that is good enough. I could be wrong, but I thing she would be thrilled every time she gets that treat because it's a treat she loves!


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

lulu'smom said:


> I'm so sorry you and Odie are dealing with this issue, but finding it is half the battle. I thought Elaine agave excellent advice to broaden the time frame between your three feedings and increase the amount of the last feeding to make it through the night. I also agree that one food for right now is the best. It's just my opinion, but I think variety in foods and snacks may be satisfying us as humans sometimes more than our pets. I know every pet is different, but as far as Lulu is concerned she would eat the same food I put in front of her like it was the greatest thing she ever tasted 365 days a year! LOL As far as snacks--I never even buy a snack/treat. Lulu is thrilled to get a bit of goat cheese, piece of apple, pinch of whatever dog-friendly thing I have in my hand. My point because I know that Odie can't have those things on a limited diet is if you find 1 treat she can have that is good enough. I could be wrong, but I thing she would be thrilled every time she gets that treat because it's a treat she loves!



Thanks! We have tried scheduling her meals differently in the past and it hasn't worked but like I said, never with just Primal. She loves the Primal so much that she eats every last speck so it might be easier to get a meal in her tummy just before bed. She ate four meals yesterday (I fed her whenever she "asked" to eat) which made me happy because they usually recommend more frequent meals to dogs that get an upset tummy when empty. It was something I was hoping she'd outgrow, but it looks like we're stuck with it! Last time it happened was last week. I'll let you all know how it goes. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## shamrockmommy (May 11, 2012)

Ugh, tummy battles. We know all about that. I've had dogs for 19 years now. Most recently, I was a follower of Dog Food Advisor and was all about the "stars" ratings, and which foods were "best." I did raw for the first 12 years or so of having dogs but then, when life got busy, I switched to kibble/cans/cooked. 

Anyway, I couldn't figure out why my dogs were so sick all the time (on these 4-5 star foods). Random and unpredictable vomiting and diarrhea happened all the time. One struggled with chronic pancreatitis but I was too stubborn to listen to my vet about coming down to lower protein/fat food. 2 of the 4 had UTIs off and on. Tummies gurgled, all 4 of mine were champion grass eaters and barfers. 
What the heck! I was feeding the best and 'appropriate' foods, right?

All this ingredient talk and the myth of "better" brands and "stars" set my dogs up for some chronic health issues. People are forgetting to look at nutrients. What do high nutrient levels found in Orijen, etc do to a dog's body over time? What does high protein/fat do for a dog prone to pancreatitis?  What does 'low carb' do for a dog who is struggling with diarrhea (needs more fiber!)? What about the high protein foods? What does their high phosphorus amounts do to a dog's urinary system over time?

Over the last few months I've totally changed my song. I finally listened and knocked the dogs down to a mid protein, mid fat, normal phosphorus food (actually a couple different brands, plus canned as well). The dogs (I have four- a chi, a poodle, a bichon and a PWD) no longer have tummy issues. No one has barfed or had cannon-butt in several months, no chronic pancreatitis symptoms, no UTI symptoms. 

The Book _Dog Food Logic_ was a big help figuring out about the nutrients, but I also got ahold of my niece's veterinary handbook which had ideal nutrient levels listed. (Protein between 18-30%, fat from 10-20%, Phosphorus from 0.6-0.9%, sodium less than 0.4%). All these are based on an as-fed basis. Some websites list it, but you will have to call the companies to get the information from most of them. 

I hope this helps some people get on the right tract with their dogs' tummies. I know I've changed my tune about "ingredients" and "stars" and now look at nutrients first.


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## zellko (Jul 3, 2013)

If time were not an issue, would you still do raw? What you say makes a lot of sense. My chi has few digestive issues (lucky me), but when I feed the higher protein foods he gets bad breath. I suspect that it may be caused by the protein. Of course, just guessing, I could be way off.


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