# Returning puppy to breeder contract?



## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Hi all,
Have just read an advert where the breeder stated words to the effect that if the new ower would have to sign a "first refusal" contract. Meaning that if puppy could no longer be kept, owner must have first option of taking it back.

Sounds good I guess and I am sure most breeders would not insist on it, if the owner had a friend or family member who wanted puppy and were happy to talk to breeder and give their details.

But what if breeder turned out to be not so great and the worst happened and circumstances really changed? Legally are these contracts binding?

I suppose you could take legal advice or just not tell them what you had done (which is dishonest and I don't like that.).

I'd always honour such a contract with a good breeder, letting then know there was a problem, but would hope they would be happy for me to re-home myself if I was able. If the pup was grown and had been with you some time, it must be hard to let them go.

Anyone any thoughts? Any experience?

Barbara x


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

I would never sign a contract to that effect, once you've bought a dog the dog is yours and your responsibility. I would be happy to make arrangments in a will for if the worst happened and there was no other option with close friends and family.

At the end of the day just like a child if for some reason the parent/owner can't care for the child/dog then the first options to be considered are alternate care but still within the same and familiar family unit with a relative or even close family friend that they already know and are comfortable with.

I wouldn't not inform tv breeder that the dogs care had been passed to someone else I'd just simply not buy from a breeder that insisted on that.


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## Kioana (Mar 1, 2005)

wow , sorry but tha't messed up. I'd think that you'd have a good relationship with your breed and would WANT to let them know when your pet has past or you some help re homing.

Most of the times breeder will know someone looking for a pet and will help you out if you need to rehome. Also if you have a good breeder then they care alot of about there puppies and like to know whats going on with them.

If my breeders had this contract i'd be happy to sign, lets me know that they care enought to make sure that in the end if i can't take care of the pet that someone will.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Kioana said:


> wow , sorry but tha't messed up. I'd think that you'd have a good relationship with your breed and would WANT to let them know when your pet has past or you some help re homing.
> 
> Most of the times breeder will know someone looking for a pet and will help you out if you need to rehome. Also if you have a good breeder then they care alot of about there puppies and like to know whats going on with them.
> 
> If my breeders had this contract i'd be happy to sign, lets me know that they care enought to make sure that in the end if i can't take care of the pet that someone will.


I'm all for the breeder being on hand if needed but that should be the owners choice and if your circumstances change and someone owning a pet has to move into a flat or an elderly person goes into care, if you have a sister moter even daughter or best friend who's already got a relationship with the pet then it should be your perogative to allow the pet to go to tem and not be legaly tied to give the dog back to the breeder and that the pup's not seen since 8 weeks and bow to teir choice for the pets future.

maybe if you're very close friends with the breeder and trust that person implicity then it would be ok but then if that was the case then there'd be no need for a contract would there?

It just doesn't ring true to me I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with a breeder who insisted upon that.


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## mad dog woman (Oct 29, 2006)

as a breeder myself my puppies long term welfare is most important to me. I love to know how they get on for all of their life. I am always on hand to help and that includes if the dog needs to be rehomed. I would like to know if they were passed on to someone else. I would always take a dog back for rehoming. I would be deeply hurt if a dog of mine was sold on from home to home. I love all my dogs like my own children and I try to get this point across to anyone that buys a pup from me. BUT when a pup is bought from me it belongs to the new owner and it is their decision at the end of the day and I wouldn't want anyone telling me what I can and can't do with my dogs and unless I agreed with a contract 100% I would not sign it. If I buy a dog from outside I try to keep in contact with the breeder and I have made some wonderful friends this way. There are also some breeders out there who once met I would NEVER contact a second time.


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

I would abide by the breeders contract myself as i stay in contact with most of the breeders of my chihuahuas but some people can get carried away with contracts as i have been there and thought that i could agree with the contract but i wasn't the case
I actually think its great that the breeder would take the puppy back if your home life changes as then they are concerned with what happens to there puppy because they don't know where its going to be rehomed to as they chose you to have the puppy in the first place!

I have read on another site of people going to court because they never kept to the contract although this was to do with breeding (as they weren't allowed to breed from the puppy) 

i have read alot about breeders contracts most i agree with others i just thought it was crazy for example i viewed a litter about three months ago i spoke to the breeder on the phone seemed lovely so i travelled quite a while to view the litter they were gorgeous but the contract was pretty awful most i couldn't abide by 
because i do crate train puppies i find this helpful and i do prefer the puppy to have a safe place (well i wasn't allowed to do this as the breeder didn't agree in the use of crates and i am honest and told her about my use of the crate which had benefits but we couldn't agree)The whole contract was quite off putting really but i thought this little one was gorgeous i would of abided by most of it but not all and in the end i decided that no i would not take the puppy


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## *Chloe* (Feb 6, 2006)

if need be id be happy to sign a contract, but also i wouldnt buy from anyone that i didnt agree to their terms - im not sure how leagally binding they are as ive never seen one drawn up buy a solicitor - but if your buying from a decent breeder and they are trusting you to have and take care of one of their babies why shouldnt they stipulate some reasonable terms


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

I would rather sign the contract if it stated that you "can" take them back to the breeder should you not be able to keep them, not that I "had" too. This way if I had a family member that I knew would be a great pet parent, I could re-home the pup myself should this arise.


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## Kioana (Mar 1, 2005)

i'm too lazy to go back a quote the person who said it but , llet me clear up what i ment. I ment if i had to rehome the puppy to someone i didn't know i'd return the pup to the breeder. Now if the pup was still in my inner circle then i'd just call them and let them know that the pup was living with so and so , giveing them there name and info should she want to contact them.

there was a time when i thought i'd have to give up my dogs, i did email the breeders i keep in contact with and let them i might have to rehome them but i'd send them the info of the person so they could keep in contact.

as one breeder said , there are alot of crazy ones out there and i also woundn't sign a contract i can't agree too. The whole point to the rehoming contact is that they know that the puppy life is happy in with someone that will take care of the puppy and not being sold all over the place.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

TLI said:


> I would rather sign the contract if it stated that you "can" take them back to the breeder should you not be able to keep them, not that I "had" too. This way if I had a family member that I knew would be a great pet parent, I could re-home the pup myself should this arise.


Yes that's reasonable isn't it 

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

It IS good that breeders do offer to take puppies and dogs back if things happen unexpectedly. However if they don't reimburse (and I believe some do) I think many owners will prefer to sell on which is sad 

It must always be a worry when you sell a puppy, if you genuinely love your dogs.

Barbara x


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## Lyanne (Oct 29, 2008)

Both my dogs have this wrote into their contract, and both are very reputable breeders. If the worst came to the worst and I was not able to care for my dogs any longer both breeders would be happy for me to rehome to family members but if I was to advertise the dogs for sale the breeder would want first refusal. This ensures they know where the dogs are going to, peace of mind and most of the time they have someone they have already vetted looking for a dog. I am very comfortable with this as it shows true commitment to the dogs for their lifetime.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

I forgot to add Freedomchis, how silly of the breeder you encountered to stipulate no crate training in the contract. I can understand that crates can be and over used by some owners. But used with care and the dogs needs foremost they are brilliant.

Mine are rarely left, but if we both need to nip out, they very happily go in and settle, lying down, even before I leave the house. They of course get a little treat in there and know we will be back soon 

A breeder should specify any contract requirements before you visit.

Barbara x


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## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

All of my breeders have this in their contract and I personally wouldn't buy from a breeder who didn't feel that way. Any breeder worth their salt cares about their puppies from birth to "the rainbow" bridge. They don't want people buying their dogs, finding out they are too much work, and then re-selling them to god knows who (possibly puppy mills). It's very standard for good breeders to do that and I wouldn't buy from a breeder that I didn't have a connection with and trust anyway. They can help re-home and take back their pups to ensure good living conditions. Good breeders put their heart and soul into breeding and deserve to have a say in where their sweet pups end up. Too many people think animals are disposable and just give them away or resell them and I find that to be very wrong. My opinion, of course. One of my breeders found one of her pups in the pound. Thank god the pup was microchipped before she left my breeders house. The person who bought the pup gave her to a "good" friend supposedly and that "good" friend gave her to a "good" friend and before you know it, that pup was 24 hours away from euthanasia. Good breeders see their pups through for their entire lives. I wouldn't have it any other way!!!


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

I put this stipulation into a contract when selling a puppy and I think it isn't wrong to do so either. what happens if you don't put it in then the puppy gets sold on after being advertised on sites such as epupz then gets overbred etc. When i sell a puppy I do not expect it to be bred from every 6 months. The person who I sell a puppy to has to be the right person for one of my puppies. If the buyer came to me a few years down the line and said that they had to part with it, I would ask if they had a new home line up for it to go to, if that was a suitable home be a friend or another family member which I was happy with then I wouldn't have a problem. 

The way I see this is that if the seller doesn't have this stipulation in their contract - do they really care where their dogs go to?

If someone doesn't want to abide by my ONE stipulation, then go somewhere else because they would not get one of my puppies.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

I have to agree. It would be very sad to see them put down, or passed around when they can go back to their breeder should the unforeseen arise. I would feel better knowing the breeder cares enough to stipulate this.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

jesshan said:


> If someone doesn't want to abide by my ONE stipulation, then go somewhere else because they would not get one of my puppies.


But you don't insist that the puppy dog is returned to you, I think that is what was worrying to me 
I wouldn't like to feel that I had signed a contract and was then under a legal obligation to return it....if I had a trusted home with someone 

I guess these contracts don't mean much, but do give the buyer the option of returning dog if necessary...kind of an open door 
Which is of course good. 

Barbara x


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

The last thing you want to see is a chihuahua put into rescue because the "new" home wasn't suitable. a dog can end up being passed from pillar to post however if the option is there to be returned to the breeder whatever the reason it is less likely to end up in a rescue centre.

If someone refuses to sign my one and only stipulation then i won't sell them a puppy. What is wrong with the original breeder wanting to know where their puppies have ended up.

Just recall a few months ago then one person who bought a dog from me, readvertised in one of the puppy farm papers and he got resold and bred from. That person who bought the pup did NOT have any idea about any potential hereditary fault however bred from him twice. I legally still own that dog because the KC papers were never picked up by the new owner now I could have LEGALLy taken the dog back. Fortunately the dog went to a nice home although I can't say i agreed with the new owner or her behaviour on here.


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## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

Barbara, I know it may make you nervous but I don't think you would have to worry about it. Any good breeder would trust you and you wouldn't make a move that wasn't "right" for your pup. You are way too good a chi mommy. I think those stipulations are in there for the breeder's piece of mind and it gives me piece of mind also. If, for any reason, it wasn't a "fit", I have a back plan also. Once I spend that money on a pup, it is gone and I have no intention of ever trying to make a penny off of that animal. It's well being is the most important thing to me. I know you are the same way so please don't fret over it.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

jesshan said:


> If someone refuses to sign my one and only stipulation then i won't sell them a puppy. What is wrong with the original breeder wanting to know where their puppies have ended up.
> 
> Just recall a few months ago then one person who bought a dog from me, readvertised in one of the puppy farm papers and he got resold and bred from. That person who bought the pup did NOT have any idea about any potential hereditary fault however bred from him twice. I legally still own that dog because the KC papers were never picked up by the new owner now I could have LEGALLy taken the dog back. Fortunately the dog went to a nice home although I can't say i agreed with the new owner or her behaviour on here.



No one has said there is anything wrong with a breeder wanting to know where the dog they have bred has gone. If not retained in their original home.

What concerned some, myself included, was that they might be legally obliged to give it back, even if they had a good home waiting 

Personally I have always changed ownership as advised by the people I bought Rosie and Honey from....But I know people who have not done this.
You highlight the importance of doing so 

Sorry to hear about the dog, I don't recall this? Heavens I wonder if it was the lady I spoke to in Pets at Home that I mentioned to here? She had a male Chi from you and she was planning or thinking of breeding from him  

What a carry on. Would it be worth maybe having a neutering clause in a contract, rescues do and insist on proof it has been done via vet statement or such like? Might that help do you think? Obviously this would only apply to Chihuahuas going to purely pet homes, I'd be more than happy to sign this if a breeder requested it and supply proof I have neutered.

Barbara x


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## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

A lot of breeders do have that in their clause and won't provide the papers until you show proof of neutering. That is, obviously, in a pet only contract. It's to keep their lines and I totally understand. Having a very close friend in my breeder, I really do see the other side to all these fine lines. Jenn is so awesome though and would be fine with re-homing, as long as she felt the pup was safe and happy. I'm so excited to see what lucky little pup gets you as a mommy!!!


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## Harley's Mom (Feb 5, 2009)

In Canada most pups are sold under "no breeding" contracts as well as first right of refusal should things not work out. I don't see any harm in the responsible breeder wanting to know the fate of their wee babies. I know that with my breeder, she doesn't make a whole ton of money off of breeding, that's not why she does it. She breeds for the betterment of the chi breed. Her breeding dogs are beautiful and her pups are equally so. She makes sure that all her pups are adopted into the right home. If things don't work out, she insists that they be returned to her or that she is contacted to re-home them and has final say on where they are eventually placed.

Most breeders just want to make sure that the rehome will be successful so that these babies are not passed around like yesterday's newspaper. I don't know too many breeders that force you to return the dog to them to rehome but rather just want to check things out the way they did initially when adopting to you. More than anything, the first right of refusal is to protect you and your puppy to know that they have somewhere to go if, God forbid, you were not able to keep your new addition for any reason.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

I don't know where you live Barbara so couldn't say whether is was the woman you were speaking to in Pets At Home.

The one I am on about was on this forum, she bought him from the original woman I sold him to then bred from him without knowing ANYTHING about his background. Now would would have happened if I had sold him or even given him away because it came about that one of his parent or litter brothers/sisters had develope sever PL and should NEVER have been bred from.

The reason why I don't stipulate that the puppy should be neutered is that if a person didn't want to do this but I wrote it into the contract that they had, then went to be neutered and died whilst being operated on. Too much heartbreak there for me.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

rcj1095 said:


> A lot of breeders do have that in their clause and won't provide the papers until you show proof of neutering. That is, obviously, in a pet only contract. It's to keep their lines and I totally understand. Having a very close friend in my breeder, I really do see the other side to all these fine lines. Jenn is so awesome though and would be fine with re-homing, as long as she felt the pup was safe and happy. I'm so excited to see what lucky little pup gets you as a mommy!!!


I'm excited too 

Yes, I do think a no breeding clause is good for pet Chihuahuas. Again if some buyers don't like it, they can look elsewhere. This way the caring breeders get (hopefully) people who REALLY are "just" looking for a little pet  

Jenn sounds brilliant by the way!

Barbara x


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## *Chloe* (Feb 6, 2006)

i didnt come across any breeders when i was looking last summer that wanted a spay/neuter clause most either wanted to withhold papers or endorse the pedigree - i guess endorsing only stops u from registering u could still breed the dog and just not reg them


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

i really don't like the spay/neuter clause incase something happens to them when being operated on?


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

jesshan said:


> The reason why I don't stipulate that the puppy should be neutered is that if a person didn't want to do this but I wrote it into the contract that they had, then went to be neutered and died whilst being operated on. Too much heartbreak there for me.


An interesting point and I respect your thoughts 
I know many (certainly not all) breeders do not advocate routine neutering. And again I respect this.

This reminds me a little of when I first looked for a Chihuahua over 12 years ago. 
There was little on the internet and trying to find a breeder was arduous. Some people were very helpful, some not interested in me. Chihuahuas were not as popular then (as you obviously know) and pretty hard to find...especially a youngish bitch.

Most of the people involved with chi's weren't overly impressed when I happily told them I wanted to spay the Chihuahua we bought. So the next couple of calls I made I didn't volunteer the information and I could tell they thought I was looking to start breeding...I just couldn't win 

Never mind, I found my lovely Honey in the end....and had her spayed 

Thank you for your input Denise 

Barbara x


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

jesshan said:


> i really don't like the spay/neuter clause incase something happens to them when being operated on?


I always worry terribly when mine are neutered, but I know the risk of pyometra/mammary tumours/prostate cancer/etc is very real too.

It IS choice and doing what we personally think is best for our dogs.

I am sure someone here will know of a Chihuahua that died while being spayed...I know of a cat that did. But I have also seen the desperate plight of bitches that were not spayed and developed mammary tumours and a friends bitch died of a closed pyometra 

Oooh this is a difficult one! Ultimately....thinking on it, I can really see where you are coming from Denise. It has to be the owners decision.
Though if I was breeding I'd put the clause in, believing that people who were not pro routine neutering would need to go elsewhere.

Hope that makes sense 

Barbara x


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## KayC (May 3, 2005)

Zoey's contract had a 1 year health gaurentee as well as a spay agreement. When she got real sick after her first heat with pyometra the breeder said I could give her back at any time, but she was my baby. There was now way I would give her back. I am glad that getting her spayed cured her pyometra.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Zoey's Mom said:


> Zoey's contract had a 1 year health gaurentee as well as a spay agreement. When she got real sick after her first heat with pyometra the breeder said I could give her back at any time, but she was my baby. There was now way I would give her back. I am glad that getting her spayed cured her pyometra.


Thank you for sharing that. Many owners think pyometra only affects older girlies, but as you and Zoey sadly experienced this is not so.

Barbara x


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

jesshan said:


> I legally still own that dog because the KC papers were never picked up by the new owner now I could have LEGALLy taken the dog back. Fortunately the dog went to a nice home although I can't say i agreed with the new owner or her behaviour on here.


This has just struck me 

If presumably you gave the owners a receipt for the money they paid you, when they bought the puppy, the fact that they never changed the registration wouldn't mean anything 

Obviously they wouldn't be able to show him or register puppies.

Just trying to get this stright in my mind 

Barbara x


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## WeLoveHiro (Apr 14, 2009)

i bought my baby here in canada, in victoria, bc. the breeder also gave me a no breeding contract to sign. i had no problem with this since i got him to be a part of my family and not for breeding or showing. his parents are registered but he isnt and has no papers. which again is fine by me. i had him neutered recently. this was the first time i bought from a breeder so i was a bit surprised by the contract. but at the end of the day, hiro is loved completely just as he is.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

Rosiesmum said:


> This has just struck me
> 
> If presumably you gave the owners a receipt for the money they paid you, when they bought the puppy, the fact that they never changed the registration wouldn't mean anything
> 
> ...


Yes all of my puppies are sold with a receipt Barbara, you need to do this for insurance purposes. However I do not know if the 2nd person who bought him got a receipt - basically then he was resold by a pet person and may not know the proceedure. However when it comes down to it she was told that if she ever wanted rid of him whatever the reason to come back to me which she didn't, therefore she broke the terms of the contract. This I do know though, in the eyes of the KC the person holding the registration documents is still the legal owner. There was a woman who was given a peke and had a litter from it, but the original owner died, all the dogs were transferred into a family members name who then called in the bitch AND the puppies.....they legally owned all of them even though they hadn't paid any stud or vet bills.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

jesshan said:


> Yes all of my puppies are sold with a receipt Barbara, you need to do this for insurance purposes. However I do not know if the 2nd person who bought him got a receipt - basically then he was resold by a pet person and may not know the proceedure. However when it comes down to it she was told that if she ever wanted rid of him whatever the reason to come back to me which she didn't, therefore she broke the terms of the contract. This I do know though, in the eyes of the KC the person holding the registration documents is still the legal owner. There was a woman who was given a peke and had a litter from it, but the original owner died, all the dogs were transferred into a family members name who then called in the bitch AND the puppies.....they legally owned all of them even though they hadn't paid any stud or vet bills.


Thank you for that, please don't think I am quizzing you 
Just your probably the best person here to ask...

I can't get my head around how you can have a receipt for paying X amount for a dog, then not own it though!!!

However....This shows the importance of (if you are a worrit like me) buying KC registered dogs...and transferring ownership 

As I said I've always done this and apart from Jago (obviously) the people I bought from gave me the reg papers without hesitation and said I should transfer 

Cheers,
Barbara x


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

Not a problem asking questions - if you don't ask you don't find things out 

I don't think that many people would "claim" a dog back TBH but if the original person broke the terms of condition then that would be a different matter. 

If a dog is sold without papers then it would have to be put into the contract that it had gone without papers.


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## unchienne (Mar 29, 2009)

Tilly's breeder has first refusal build into her contracts, but she fosters relationships with her dog's owners. Most bring theirs to her to be boarded while on vacation, and there's only two that she's lost contact with. In the eight years she's been breeder and selling, she said there's been two owners who took her up on the offer. Both dogs are permanently with her now, and she hasn't tried to resell them. 

I don't mind signing. If I was giving away a pet that I had owned/bred, I'd want first refusal.


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## Kioana (Mar 1, 2005)

once i found out that jasper had a retained testical the breeder said i can send him back but , he was a pet so it wasn't happing.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

It's interesting to we the differing views on this one. I wonder are the contracts more common in the states or Canada or just as common in the I'm too?


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I havent had time to read through all of the replies here but I am with the contract. As said above it is in the best benefit of the pups. I think most reputable breeder's state this in a contract. This way the pups do not go to god know where? Most of the time the breeder will simply help you rehome the dog if she herself does not have room for the pup;-)


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