# Please help to break the vicious circle - poop eater with giardia



## Yatak (May 11, 2009)

Hi all,

Have not been posting for a looong time. Was so busy with new job, studying, and our dog problems.

I really need your advice, as I have tried many things already and am running out of options. 

Both of my girls (9 and 11 months) have giardia. They had it since September now (this is when we have found out). I have been treating them with Panacur (although my new vet said that it is not effective at all and they are not prescribing it at all now). Anyways, no medicine should actually be helpful in our case, as my youngest one Sly is a poop eater. I work from 8:30 -18:00 and have a dog sitter for them now, who comes over for 3 hours in the day to play with them and take them out for a walk. She stays at around 11 till 14. We are trying to retrain them to go outside for toilet, but WOW, it is so difficult to retrain them. Plus Milou has a different schedule of BM from Sly and I do not know how to break the schedule. They eat at the same time, but Milou goes to toilet in the day time and then late night or early morning (when we sleep). So Sly is eating either her poop or her own. I am very worried about their health, but can not do anything to stop it. I stopped the treatment for now, until i can sort the Sly's poo eating habbits.

Please please please, any help, any advice would mean a lot to me. What should I do??? I need to cure them! And need to keep my job! 

I have tried different methods - Forbid, pineapple, changing food, another powder, saying no when i catch her. 

How dangerous is giardia to them? They do not show effects too often, but sometimes have runny stools and I have noticed a bit of blood recently. On top of that, I am really sick of cleaning up poop bits from my sofa (sly eats it there, when noone is at home) and of not being able to kiss her, although she is a maniac licker.

Also, do you have any advice on how to retrain them for outside? I take them out every evening, baby sitter - every afternoon, and then i tried in the morning, but they are so sleepy and I got no cooperation at all. 

HELP!!!


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## mad dog woman (Oct 29, 2006)

Can't help you but just didn't want you to feel all alone I have a couple of poop eaters myself YUK lol x


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## dahlia (Aug 16, 2005)

I've heard that if they eat a dog food with corn as an ingredient, then that's why they eat poop---the corn isn't digested and comes out in the poop. You mentioned changing foods so maybe you already know this...just wanted to double check. Has the vet prescribed another medicine since they no longer recommend Panacur?


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I would think the first thing you need to do is make sure that the poop is picked up behind them immediately wether inside or outside if possible? Pineapple works great for us so maybe you need to put more pineapple juice in? It seems like I read another thread here while back that had something else they gave but not sure? I would google "stopping dogs from eating poo" and see if that comes up with anything for you different? I would think that it could get dangerous for them to continue to have Giardia?


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Here are a couple of good links I found ;-) 
http://www.dogeatingpoop.com/
http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Dogs-Eat-Poop&id=803411
http://www.dog-obedience-training-review.com/stop-dogs-eating-dog-poop.html
http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_PoopEating.php

I havent tried putting meat tenderizer or MSG in the food but would be interesting to see how it works?

I also thought this was an interesting idea listed..Coat stools, following elimination, with hot sauce or lemon juice. Or booby trap sample stools by penetrating some left in the yard with hot sauce.


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## L2druid (Dec 28, 2009)

No one knows for sure why they do it.

One of my shepherds was a poop eater and he had coccidia. I didn't want him eating it. Nothing worked..if I picked up poop and kept him on a leash he would literally poop and circle around as soon as it was within reach and start gobbling it..sometimes even while running away or trying to..He knew he wasn't supposed to-he'd eat faster if we caught him and told him "No!" and he knew what the word meant.

It got to the point where he was getting obsessed and would hunt for poop wherever we went..walks...any public place was game to scour for tidbits of it. 

I don't know how people feel about them here, but I used an electric collar to fix it and after getting one I will never be without one again. They are an excellent tool to use for training and not at all harmful if used correctly( a stimulation from a collar feels like a slight poke...not something people imagine like say, a pulse that racks through the body. It would be just enough for the dog to twitch and go..What was that?! Like a poke on the shoulder. Uncomfortable, but not painful in any way. The dog should NEVER cry out. ). This was on a shepherd, of course. They do make them for toy dogs: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000A7BC4Q...e=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B000A7BC4Q

Not exactly cheap, but I will probably be looking for a small one in the future and that one is a good one. However, that's just my suggestion. There's other ways, I'm sure. 

What I would do, personally, is use crates. If they aren't crate trained, they would be working on it for this. Free reign and all you can eat buffet for poop? No way. Lol. If I couldn't watch them they'd be in the crate. Unless they have no problem soiling their beds. Then it's a whole new fun ordeal...


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

If they still have the giradia..I'd not let them have free-run of the place while you are at work. No sofa for eating poop on..:foxes15:. Maybe put up a gate so they can't go everywhere. I would also get up in the am and get that first poop picked up before it even cools off. I know that sounds like you'll get no sleep but it might be worht it for a while. 

I think that he advice that Michelle gave to try something else to deter the poop eating is a great plan.

I am sorry for all of the trouble you are having....honestly...I'd not be good at this problem at all....you are great to keep at it and try to work this out...hope the vet comes up with some new medicine to help rid of the girardia too. That can make them sick and she might be craving something because she has the girardia...there by causing her to go after the poop more..maybe..IDK..


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

L2druid said:


> No one knows for sure why they do it.
> 
> One of my shepherds was a poop eater and he had coccidia. I didn't want him eating it. Nothing worked..if I picked up poop and kept him on a leash he would literally poop and circle around as soon as it was within reach and start gobbling it..sometimes even while running away or trying to..He knew he wasn't supposed to-he'd eat faster if we caught him and told him "No!" and he knew what the word meant.
> 
> ...


I completely disagree, "ALL" shock collars hurt/scare the dog. I wouldnt use one on a large dog much less something as tiny as the Chihuahua. I have felt a lot of these collars and they do hurt. The reason you wouldnt feel the jolt on the tiny collar is it is made much milder for the tiny dog but I promise that they feel it and would disagree that it doesnt hurt. Try a spray bottle or spray collar ;-)

Before resorting to something so barbaric I would exhaust all other resources and there are plenty other things to try before going that route ;-)


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## L2druid (Dec 28, 2009)

Yoshismom said:


> I completely disagree, "ALL" shock collars hurt/scare the dog. I wouldnt use one on a large dog much less something as tiny as the Chihuahua. I have felt a lot of these collars and they do hurt. The reason you wouldnt feel the jolt on the tiny collar is it is made much milder for the tiny dog but I promise that they feel it and would disagree that it doesnt hurt.


Everyone has their own opinion and I'm certainly not here to argue but I will post one more time about it. I've felt them as well-how could I not, they're going on my pets? Of course I've even put it on my own neck and it does not hurt in any way. It certainly could though. Like any tool they can be misused. If it hurts you, you either have a dirt cheap collar or the setting is WAY too high.

Other people are surprised when they feel the levels it should be on because it doesn't feel painful, even less than when someone with static charge touches you..a mosquito bite feels worse. It also doesn't hurt or scare my dogs...In fact they get very excited when they see the collars because it means fun things like going outside, training or offleash time when we go hiking..etc. If the collars hurt them I highly doubt they'd want them on. 

A leash pop is so much worse than this..so I have yet to understand why it's called abusive. Probably because people just don't know and think you seriously shock the living crap out a dog, which is very, very untrue.

That's all I'm going to say, I guess, because I'm not taking this thread any farther off topic.


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## Bella Luna (Jan 15, 2010)

My Mom's Chihuahua, Tinkerbell, is the queen of poop-eating! And then her breath smells awful! My mom has tried to many things..these natural vitamins, putting stuff on the food, changing food, and nothing seems to work either. If you find out anything that does, let me know so I can tell her! 

Good luck!


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion but my opinion come's from much experience with dogs and the rescues I have been with and none of them would ever do such a thing to large or small dogs. If the settings are that low then how would it be effective in training? I cant imgaine (a feeling of a mosquito bite) stopping behaviors? That makes no sense to me but what I was trying to get across is that something minute to a human would be much more so to something as small as a Chihuahua. I also do not believe in popping with leashes either and I find that abusive as well, you should be able to use positive correction for any animal and would get a much better effect out of this. How is it off topic when I was trying to allow the original poster not to have options and to see the good and bad to all options. I believe in positive reinforcement only ;-) Would you put this type of collar on your child, they pick up things and try to eat things all the time...no you wouldnt and if you did you would lose your child to social services. Also you did state at the beginning of your paragraph that you dont know what other's think, so I told you ;-) My original point was to have the OP use other methods before going straight to a collar like this. Yes I am sure your dogs are excited to put them on if they are not allowed to go out without them then they will be excited to go outside period with whatever it takes to get them there, I am glad that you do not use a setting that hurts them but I dont understand how that corrects them either?

I am not trying to be ugly either but I feel very strongly about anything outside of Positive reinforcement. I am not being argumentitve either, I just wanted to address the issues and statements that you brought up ;-) So I politely agree to disagree 

I do agree with you about the crates though


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## Chihuahua _lover (Jan 13, 2010)

I have a rabbit that insists on throwing its poop out of the cage, and if I don't clean it before Chloe(my chihuahua) sees it then she goes over and eats it. 

I don't understand why she likes to eat rabbit poop. She doesn't try to eat her own!


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## L2druid (Dec 28, 2009)

I was just getting at that because I don't think continually going back and forth on a a topic that can't be swayed in either direction is productive to the OP's original plea for help. Our opinions have both been written and are there for her to pick through and decide for herself now.

I didn't want to bring it up to start anything, just to offer a suggestion to someone with no other options.

The setting's work because it's uncomfortable, like tapping them on the shoulder. I didn't say you couldn't feel it, it just doesn't 'hurt'. It depends on the dog and surroundings too, the level that you set. Like a dog that breaks a known down-stay to chase something you'd probably have to set it a hair higher than normal to snap them out of it and hear you..etc.

As for the child thing..A dog is not a human child. They don't think like a person and they don't act like a person. I'm not saying I don't love them-very much the opposite. But you wouldn't feed your child raw meat and bones, let them lick their butts or keep them in a crate either. A dog needs discipline just like a person does rather it be in the form of not getting what they want or a correction.

They aren't only allowed outside with the collars on, actually. I put them on randomly because they are past the point in training where I don't trust them not to ignore me.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

I really can't believe that using such a collar would even be considered, it just sounds so medieval.

The obedience classes I am bringing my dog to has really helped us with some issues we were having, it is all about really building a great relationship with your dog, rewarding all good behaviour. 

I can't imagine what our trainer would think if we mentioned the collar, you have to work at building a relationship and obedience, to me the collar sounds like the lazymans method of training, and at the end of the day, if the dog is trained with collar does that mean it has to always be used throughout the dogs life, because the relationship is just not there.

If the dog goes to eat his poop, a sharp ah-ah from you to stop him in his tracks, pick it up, and then followed by a treat for not eating it should work. Of course it means following him like a hawk everytime he goes out, but after a little while, the behaviour should stop.

Training dogs is hard work, but so worthwhile, it is amazing how quickly they get the message, once you are consistant and always give the same message.


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## Yatak (May 11, 2009)

Hey all,

Thank you for your comments. When i did not work, I used to watch them very close, although still, since Milou goes to poop at night, Sly managed to get her own way, whilst mommy is not watching. She has tried only once to do it in front of me - this is when I told her no. Now, it can be laying there (i once did it on purpose to see whether she would), and she would not touch it.. last time she came to sniff it a couple of times and then left it. 

The problem arises when we are not at home and the dog sitter is gone. I know it is not her being hungry, because there is always plenty of food and bully sticks and they get their meals 3 times a day (plus snacks).

I am also struggling to steamline their BM schedules. They seem to be doing it randomly... like tonight, I fed them at 7pm, and then waited till 9:30 pm to take them out for a walk (because if I take them too early, then Milou does not go). Milou did, but then Sly did not. Mornings are the hardest, as they are so sleepy and really do not move on a leash (or even without it) when outside.

I have tried adding pineapple juice before, but they simply do not eat their food then. 

I have also tried leaving lots of stinky chewie sticks (god, they reak)... just to keep them occupied with something and give Sly an alternative. At first it seemed to work, but then she started again.

Getting a gate is on our to-do list, especially since we are getting a new sofa (about time =)):hello1:

Does anybody have advice as to how to make sure they have a BM at a regular time? How many times do you take your dogs out? How many times a day do they have BM? Can it be that Milou only has it 2 a day? Is it normal?

Also what can i do to get some cooperation from them in the morning to go for a walk (and do their business)? Treats did not work last time I tried... i suppose they still had their eyes closed. haha


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I still think the two seperate crates idea would be a good idean for you. Just get them big enough to move around in as they will likely go potty if they have to much room. Use the crates when you nor your puppy sitter can not be there to watch them;-)

As for pottying outside, just wait for one of them to do it and then praise, praise, praise (very excitedly) try the treats again when praising also. It will take a lot of work and patience but they will get the picture eventually if you keep at it ;-)


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## Jerry'sMom (May 5, 2009)

I'm sorry, I don't have time to read this entire thread. To answer your question about getting their BMs on schedule... Input equals output. They do *not *need three meals and snacks per day. Fewer meals means fewer poops  A morning meal and an evening meal should be fine at the age of 11 months (unless your dog has unique blood sugar issues). That may stop their need to poop throughout the day. Good luck with your situation.


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