# Neutering myth?



## Stark (Jan 13, 2010)

I heard many times that male dogs gain weight after getting neutered. But I also researched it and found out it wasn't true.
Yet I got Tanner neutered back in Spetember, and he's been overweight ever since. :|
He gets the same amount of exercise as before (which is a ton due to his high energy) and I don't feed him too much.
Did anyone else ever have this problem? >.<


----------



## MJandFern (Sep 3, 2009)

My chihuahua gained more weight after he was neutered...but he was kinda too thin before...he plays the same extra...BUT he has a bigger appetite...before he would not finish his puppy food EVER...right after the neuter he started eating every bit of it...his eating became less picky too...


----------



## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Gaining weight after spaying or neutering is a fact. Removing the reproductive organs changes the hormones, and in effect changes the metabolism. If done to early in the growth phase, it can even change the normal growth pattern. My boy gained a full pound after his neuter almost immediately and he was 19 months old at the time of his surgery. It was a positive thing for him as he was too thin before. The best thing to do is too lower his food intake just a little at a time. That way his body gets used to less food and he won't seem hungry. Of course you still need to provide proper nutrition in an amount that keeps him overall healthy. You can change his food to a lower calorie version of the formula you are using. Just do it slow. Any kind of extra exercise, playing ball, a bit of chase, anything that gets him moving will help.


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I wish this were true for Brody. He was a picky eater and continues to be a hard keeper, even after his neuter. He is fit and lean now, but doesn't have an ounce of extra. He has a very fast metabolism though and is constantly playing or running around. I would like for him to gain a couple ounces so I have a little pad in case of illness. He is right on the edge of being too thin.


----------



## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Brodysmom said:


> I wish this were true for Brody. He was a picky eater and continues to be a hard keeper, even after his neuter. He is fit and lean now, but doesn't have an ounce of extra. He has a very fast metabolism though and is constantly playing or running around. I would like for him to gain a couple ounces so I have a little pad in case of illness. He is right on the edge of being too thin.


Once he gets a bit older and more settled (less play) he'll put on a few ounces. :wink:


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

TLI said:


> Once he gets a bit older and more settled (less play) he'll put on a few ounces. :wink:


oh when oh when will that be T!? He's 17 months old already!!


----------



## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Brodysmom said:


> oh when oh when will that be T!? He's 17 months old already!!


He is still very young. Lots of play left in him. As they age they settle a great deal. With him being very active, and a picky eater, that's what is keeping his weight down now. He may always be a picky eater, but once he settles it will add a few ounces. Not much, but probably enough to make you feel more comfy.  He has such a small frame, so you won't want too much extra. It would be hard on his little legs and such. The longer/tall thin frame isn't as prone to weight issues. That is actually beneficial. Studies show thin dogs live a longer healthier life than those that are bigger.


----------



## Stark (Jan 13, 2010)

Okay I feel better now.  I thought for sure someone would comment this and make me feel stupid. XD Tanner has a stoky build as it is, so the extra pound on him makes him so wide. His back is completely fat. I've been feeding him less and less. He always makes me feel bad when he sits there and digs at his bowl over and over again. Lol. So I guess by doing this I'm sort of shrinking his stomache? But I swear this dog could eat all day and never be full haha.

And Bailey's hard to keep weight on too. It got so bad to the point where his hip bones were vair prominent as were his ribs. The vet told me it's mostly because he's so muscular that it doesn't spread out evenly, so he wasn't as underweight as I thought. Sicne then he's packed on about two pounds, but we're still trying to add more. I hope when he gets neutered it makes it easier lol. I know I don't have to worry about him being a little tubby like Tanner.


----------



## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Stark said:


> Okay I feel better now.  I thought for sure someone would comment this and make me feel stupid. XD Tanner has a stoky build as it is, so the extra pound on him makes him so wide. His back is completely fat. I've been feeding him less and less. He always makes me feel bad when he sits there and digs at his bowl over and over again. Lol. So I guess by doing this I'm sort of shrinking his stomache? But I swear this dog could eat all day and never be full haha.
> 
> And Bailey's hard to keep weight on too. It got so bad to the point where his hip bones were vair prominent as were his ribs. The vet told me it's mostly because he's so muscular that it doesn't spread out evenly, so he wasn't as underweight as I thought. Sicne then he's packed on about two pounds, but we're still trying to add more. I hope when he gets neutered it makes it easier lol. I know I don't have to worry about him being a little tubby like Tanner.


No one should try to make you feel stupid over any question.  There are a lot of online sites that will say that gaining weight after a neuter (or spay) is a myth. But it is factual. You can't remove reproductive organs without changing the normal course of what the hormones from those organs tell the brain. Some don't gain as much as others. It depends on their metabolism to start with. If they have a fast metabolism to begin with, chances are you won't see much weight gain. The metabolism is more genetic than anything. But removing vital hormones changes it.  That is the downside of S/N, but it has so many benefits. Just a bit of change in the diet and more exercise should get him closer to a healthy weight. 

Yes, slowly decreasing his food intake is the best way to do it. Otherwise his tummy will continue to tell him he's hungry. But some dogs always act like they are hungry. I would try a low calorie version of his food so that you can feed him a bit more.


----------



## Stark (Jan 13, 2010)

TLI said:


> No one should try to make you feel stupid over any question.  There are a lot of online sites that will say that gaining weight after a neuter (or spay) is a myth. But it is factual. You can't remove reproductive organs without changing the normal course of what the hormones from those organs tell the brain. Some don't gain as much as others. It depends on their metabolism to start with. If they have a fast metabolism to begin with, chances are you won't see much weight gain. The metabolism is more genetic than anything. But removing vital hormones changes it.  That is the downside of S/N, but it has so many benefits. Just a bit of change in the diet and more exercise should get him closer to a healthy weight.
> 
> Yes, slowly decreasing his food intake is the best way to do it. Otherwise his tummy will continue to tell him he's hungry. But some dogs always act like they are hungry. I would try a low calorie version of his food so that you can feed him a bit more.


I feed Tanner Orijen dog food. It has VERY high protein content and card sources. Is that adding onto the weight gain?


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Orijen is a very good food but it is very nutrient dense. Could you decrease his portion and see if his weight starts dropping? 

My mother in laws vet had her add canned green beans to her dogs kibble every day. Rinsed first and low sodium. They kept her dog full and her dog lost weight. That might be an option. Green beans won't be digested since dogs don't digest veggies well, but they will help him feel full and may help him lose weight.

I'd hate to tell you to switch from Orijen since it's such a good food. Maybe feed less and add some canned rinsed veggies for bulk/fiber.


----------



## Quinn (Dec 11, 2008)

Actually usually when dogs are on high quality foods like Orijen it doesn't make them overweight (if you aren't overfeeding). Many dogs I've seen on Orijen are lean, and muscular. It has to do with the sources of the nutrients. But because Orijen is grain free and a rich food your dog should be eating a very small amount of it. I'd made my grandmother put her 50lb dog on Orijen and she thought I was SO cruel with the tiny portion I was allowing her. 

Also not ALL dogs gain weight after spay/neuter. Some definitely do, but not all. Once you notice your dog has started changing its all about management as you seem to be doing. More exercise less food.


----------



## lilbabyvenus (Feb 8, 2009)

Our vet did warn us that their metabolism may slow after nueter, but Jack actually lost weight. I have to give him a supplement every day because he just burns too much running around like a wild beast lol


----------



## omguthrie (Oct 13, 2009)

Try dropping the amount of dog food he is getting by 1/3 and make up the balance in canned pumpkin (not pumpkin pie filling but just plain canned pumpkin). It is calorie free and is just fiber so he'll fill more full but get fewer calories. 

I do this on any foster dog that I get in that is pudgy. Also on my older border collie girl. She has always been the kind of dog that gets chunky if she even looks at an extra kibble (hmmmmm... kind of like me!) and is always hungry so when she starts scrounging around the kitchen looking for food I add some pumpkin to her diet.

It is also good for dogs with loose or soft stool. It will firm up the stool in a couple of days.

Good thing you caught this before it has gotten completely out of control! 

Olivia


----------



## Stark (Jan 13, 2010)

omguthrie said:


> Try dropping the amount of dog food he is getting by 1/3 and make up the balance in canned pumpkin (not pumpkin pie filling but just plain canned pumpkin). It is calorie free and is just fiber so he'll fill more full but get fewer calories.
> 
> I do this on any foster dog that I get in that is pudgy. Also on my older border collie girl. She has always been the kind of dog that gets chunky if she even looks at an extra kibble (hmmmmm... kind of like me!) and is always hungry so when she starts scrounging around the kitchen looking for food I add some pumpkin to her diet.
> 
> ...


Lol. I didn't know they had canned pumpkins! And yeah I just wish he never packed on the extra pound in the first place. It's so funny how, say one extra pound on a labrador doesn't show a difference at all. And yet on a chihuahua one pound can make them so pudgy. XD



Quinn said:


> Actually usually when dogs are on high quality foods like Orijen it doesn't make them overweight (if you aren't overfeeding). Many dogs I've seen on Orijen are lean, and muscular. It has to do with the sources of the nutrients. But because Orijen is grain free and a rich food your dog should be eating a very small amount of it. I'd made my grandmother put her 50lb dog on Orijen and she thought I was SO cruel with the tiny portion I was allowing her.
> 
> Also not ALL dogs gain weight after spay/neuter. Some definitely do, but not all. Once you notice your dog has started changing its all about management as you seem to be doing. More exercise less food.


Hahahaha. The bag says feed him a cup. I've always felt that was too much, but I fed it anyway. But I've been trying to decrease it more and more. We feed our dogs once a day due to the hours they have to spend in the cage without a potty break [4 hours]. So sometimes I end up working at 3pm which is when we feed them. And I think my dad feeds him too much. :/



Brodysmom said:


> Orijen is a very good food but it is very nutrient dense. Could you decrease his portion and see if his weight starts dropping?
> 
> My mother in laws vet had her add canned green beans to her dogs kibble every day. Rinsed first and low sodium. They kept her dog full and her dog lost weight. That might be an option. Green beans won't be digested since dogs don't digest veggies well, but they will help him feel full and may help him lose weight.
> 
> I'd hate to tell you to switch from Orijen since it's such a good food. Maybe feed less and add some canned rinsed veggies for bulk/fiber.


I'm nervous that putting vegies in his food will make him have diahrrea? Because he doesn't know how to go to the back door to let us know he has to "go." He does sometimes. But he just sits there and doesn't make a noise and after a while he just walks away and goes in the house. Lol. I'd hate to take him off orijen too. I wonder if they have a diet kind. Hah I'm gonna look into that.


----------



## Quinn (Dec 11, 2008)

Whoa you're feeding him a CUP of Orijen?! WAAY too much! That is your problem right there! How much does he weigh? I just checked the bag and I can see where you would have drawn that amount. I think that reccomendation is crazy! Haha. 
I'm assuming he's on the less active side (considering all dogs out there, not sayin you don't exercise). I'd be feeding him 1/2 a cup and seeing from there how his weight goes. If it isn't helping much I'd cut down again, to like 1/3 a cup. I used to feed my guys Orijen and can't imagine feeding them each a cup a day. They would have exploded hahaha. My Grandma's 50lb Bull Terrier (not active) only gets a small bit over a cup! 

No point in feeding a diet food, just feed less. He might act hungry but eventually his stomach will shrink and he'll stop. It isn't cruel to make him feel hungry if your making him healthier


----------



## RascalsMum (Jan 2, 2010)

Green beans are good they don't put weight on and it fills them up, My dogs just got to look at food and they gain weight. My goldens are only getting 2 cups a day, 1 cup of biscuits 1 cup of green beans, Rascal is only getting a small hand full of biscuits. I'm using diet biscuits lower in fat content. Rascal won't touch beans so he only gets biscuits and sometimes table scraps eg cooked meat.


----------



## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

I wouldn't take him off of the Orijen. It's a great food. I would be careful adding in veggies. If you do decide to do it, go slow. Anything different added to the diet can cause upset tummy. It doesn’t always, but it can. Pumpkin is a great source of fiber, and tolerated very well by most dogs. I would go that route before adding in other things. And of course that's just my opinion.  Orijen makes a Senior formula. It has 3% less fat than the adult version. You can try that as well, and if you are feeding one cup of food daily, go to 3/4. See how he does on that. If he starts losing some weight, problem solved. Just go slow and see what works. And like I mentioned, try out their Senior formula.


----------



## Stark (Jan 13, 2010)

Quinn said:


> Whoa you're feeding him a CUP of Orijen?! WAAY too much! That is your problem right there! How much does he weigh? I just checked the bag and I can see where you would have drawn that amount. I think that reccomendation is crazy! Haha.
> I'm assuming he's on the less active side (considering all dogs out there, not sayin you don't exercise). I'd be feeding him 1/2 a cup and seeing from there how his weight goes. If it isn't helping much I'd cut down again, to like 1/3 a cup. I used to feed my guys Orijen and can't imagine feeding them each a cup a day. They would have exploded hahaha. My Grandma's 50lb Bull Terrier (not active) only gets a small bit over a cup!
> 
> No point in feeding a diet food, just feed less. He might act hungry but eventually his stomach will shrink and he'll stop. It isn't cruel to make him feel hungry if your making him healthier


You're assumption is wrong. Tanner is a vair active dog. And I've never seen a crazier little dog in my life. He never slows down. We played fetch in the house for at least 45 minutes last night until I finally called it quits lol. I started feeding him a cup as it suggested but decided that was too much, so I have been cutting it down more and more. He gets about 2/3 a cup now. And I'm still cutting it. I'm just taking it more slowly. 



TLI said:


> I wouldn't take him off of the Orijen. It's a great food. I would be careful adding in veggies. If you do decide to do it, go slow. Anything different added to the diet can cause upset tummy. It doesn’t always, but it can. Pumpkin is a great source of fiber, and tolerated very well by most dogs. I would go that route before adding in other things. And of course that's just my opinion.  Orijen makes a Senior formula. It has 3% less fat than the adult version. You can try that as well, and if you are feeding one cup of food daily, go to 3/4. See how he does on that. If he starts losing some weight, problem solved. Just go slow and see what works. And like I mentioned, try out their Senior formula.


I may try the pumpkin. So I guess I'll go buy some when I buy another bag of food tomorrow. Maybe I'll try the senior formula too. Does it have anything else in it that can effect him in the wrong way? .-. I'm not good with dog foods. I know what not to feed him, like the ingredients they have in IAMS and Pedigree. Bt I know no nutritional stuff at all! Hahahaha.


----------



## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Stark said:


> I may try the pumpkin. So I guess I'll go buy some when I buy another bag of food tomorrow. Maybe I'll try the senior formula too. Does it have anything else in it that can effect him in the wrong way? .-. I'm not good with dog foods. I know what not to feed him, like the ingredients they have in IAMS and Pedigree. Bt I know no nutritional stuff at all! Hahahaha.


No, it is the same formula as the adult Orijen, just less fat. Typically companies make a puppy formula, adult formula, and a lower fat version. The only difference, usually, is the protein/fat content. Puppy has the highest, then the adult, then the senior. The Senior formula is only 1% (not sure why I thought 3% less), but every little bit helps when trying to reduce weight. 

Here are the ingredients for each:

*Puppy*

Fresh deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh deboned salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, peas, fresh deboned lake whitefish, salmon meal, fresh deboned walleye, chicken liver, fresh deboned turkey, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), fresh whole eggs, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12), mineral supplements (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product. 

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS 
Crude Protein (min.) 40.0% 
Crude Fat (min.) 20.0% 
Crude Fiber (max.) 3.0% 
Moisture (max.) 10.0% 
Calcium (min.) 1.6% 
Calcium (max.) 1.8% 
Phosphorus (min.) 1.2% 
Phosphorus (max.) 1.4% 
*Omega-6 (min.) 3.2% 
*Omega-3 (min.)
*DHA
*EPA 1.2%
0.7%
0.4% 
*Carbohydrate (max.) 18.0% 

*Glucosamine (min.) 1400 mg/kg 
*Chondroitin (min.) 1200 mg/kg 
*Microorganisms (min.) 120M cfu/kg 

*
Adult*

INGREDIENTS
Fresh deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh deboned pacific salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, peas, fresh deboned lake whitefish, fresh deboned northern walleye, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), chicken liver, salmon meal, fresh deboned turkey, fresh whole eggs, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12), mineral supplements (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product. 

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS 

Crude Protein (min.) 40.0% 
Crude Fat (min.) 16.0% 
Crude Fiber (max.) 2.5% 
Moisture (max.) 10.0% 
Calcium (min.) 1.5% 
Calcium (max.) 1.7% 
Phosphorus (min.) 1.2% 
Phosphorus (max.) 1.4% 
Omega-6 (min.) 3.0% 
Omega-3 (min.)
DHA
EPA 1.1%
0.6%
0.3% 
Carbohydrate (max.) 20.0% 

Glucosamine (min.) 1200 mg/kg 
Chondroitin (min.) 900 mg/kg 
Microorganisms (min.) 120M cfu/kg 

*Senior*

INGREDIENTS
Fresh deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh deboned salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, peas, fresh deboned lake whitefish, salmon meal, fresh deboned walleye, chicken liver, fresh deboned turkey, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), whole eggs, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12), mineral supplements (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium), Lactobacillus acidophilus and Enterococcus faecium fermentation product. 

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS 

Crude Protein (min.) 40.0% 
Crude Fat (min.) 15.0% 
Crude Fiber (max.) 6.0% 
Moisture (max.) 10.0% 
Calcium (min.) 1.6% 
Calcium (max.) 1.8% 
Phosphorus (min.) 1.1% 
Phosphorus (max.) 1.3% 
Omega-6 (min.) 2.5% 
Omega-3 (min.)
DHA
EPA 1.0%
0.6%
0.3% 
Carbohydrate (max.) 20.0% 

Glucosamine (min.) 1400 mg/kg 
Chondroitin (min.) 1200 mg/kg 
Microorganisms (min.) 120M cfu/kg 

Keep us updated on his progress.


----------



## Quinn (Dec 11, 2008)

I wasn't trying to say he wasn't active, but when I think of active I think more working dogs, dog who do agility, dogs who go on runs ever day and hike all the time. Yeah 45 minutes is a lot of exercise and its great, but its not what I think of when I think very active. I wouldn't consider any of my dogs very active at the moment. They are somewhere in between. No offense meant, its just I used to feed the chis Orijen so I know it a bit.


----------



## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

Rico eats orijen and he get 1/4 cup or so. That what was recommended on the bag. Maybe I read it wrong. I had to put a medicine cup..it is about 1/8 th a cup so that the kids don't go filling a dish for the dog.


----------



## jan896 (Dec 9, 2009)

my VET said after Chico was neutered he should eat 25% less than before the surgery. I was feeding him before surgery 1/4 cup twice a day of Blue Mountain (grain free) dry food. She said canned food has more water in it and would help in getting his weight in line but I still have been feeding him the 1/4 cup of dry and Chico is FAT.... he doesn't get much exercise. 25% less food just seems like he would only be getting 3 or 4 pieces of dry kibble.... VET says 1/8 cup twice a day is plenty for him..... guess I need to find a different measuring cup....:foxes15: I know its my fault for him being FAT but I feel he is starving with only the 1/8 cup twice a day..... he does not get any free-feeding during the day...... A friend said once I was 'killing him with kindness'.... I hope to get him started on a daily 30minute exercise after all of this 30+ inches of snow disappears.........


----------



## Stark (Jan 13, 2010)

jan896 said:


> my VET said after Chico was neutered he should eat 25% less than before the surgery. I was feeding him before surgery 1/4 cup twice a day of Blue Mountain (grain free) dry food. She said canned food has more water in it and would help in getting his weight in line but I still have been feeding him the 1/4 cup of dry and Chico is FAT.... he doesn't get much exercise. 25% less food just seems like he would only be getting 3 or 4 pieces of dry kibble.... VET says 1/8 cup twice a day is plenty for him..... guess I need to find a different measuring cup....:foxes15: I know its my fault for him being FAT but I feel he is starving with only the 1/8 cup twice a day..... he does not get any free-feeding during the day...... A friend said once I was 'killing him with kindness'.... I hope to get him started on a daily 30minute exercise after all of this 30+ inches of snow disappears.........


Yeah I'd rather go for a mile run with Tanner a day than let him only eat so little. :/ My vet never mentioned anything about Tanner's food intake or that he'd gain some. Everytday I get crap about Tanner being fat. ;-; he was so fit before the neutering. I had no idea it'd get like this.  Everyday my dad tells me I'm killing him. I know fat dogs live shorter lives, but it's not like I'm meaning for him to be fat.


----------

