# It won't happen to me or mine...



## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

I'm here to help as best I can, and will always offer what words of wisdom and comfort that I can. However, I must say how saddened I am over the difficulties from the past few litters born to members. I hope and pray that people that are considering breeding their dogs, boys and girls, are reading these threads. While I'm praying, I'm including a prayer that they don't fall back onto that age old thought thtat "it won't happen to me or my dog." I hear this all the time when I'm talking with people that think they want to let their girl/boy have just one litter, they want one just like the momma/daddy, they have people that want the puppies, etc., etc. You name it, I've heard it as a reason to breed their dogs. 

When I discuss the work and heartache that is involved in breeding, whelping, and raising a litter, people think I'm just saying it "keep the money all to myself." Geese Louise, I've never in my life made money off a dog or litter. They don't believe me when I say you can lose the momma. They don't believe me when I say you can lose the pups. They don't believe me when I say c-sections are very common and expensive. They don't believe me when I talk about the hours, days on end, that it takes to hand rear a puppy, let along an entire litter. They don't believe me when I say that they may not have the people ready and willing to "buy" their puppies, even all their "friends" who want one. They don't believe me when I say there are thousands of Chis being put to sleep for lack of good homes. I'm told I want all the glory. I'm saying there is no glory in loss...and that loss can't be predicted.

Please, please, please read these threads. Understand that it can happen to you and/or your dogs. If you want one just like the one you have, go back to the breeder. You stand a better chance of getting what you want that way, without the heartache of losing your beloved pet. Children don't want to experience the agony of death any more than they comprehend the joy of life. Visit your local shelters and rescues and see the numbers already born that were promised homes that never came through. I've fostered Chis from parents who couldn't afford the section, couldn't hand raise the litter, couldn't place the pups and now they aren't so cute and no one will buy them, pups that weren't born perfect, and those that were sold to people who had no idea about the breed and decided later they were inconvenient, hard to housetrain, snappy, ill tempered, etc., etc., because they failed to properly raise them. 

I'm just saying, people, that we are responsible for our dogs. It can and will happen to you and yours...on down the generations of dogs that are produced from your "one" litter. Rescue cleaning up after the fact doesn't stop the cycle. Responsble pet ownership does. You are seeing first hand the devastation that happens every day. Before you decide to breed that litter, please ask yourself if you're willing to lose your girl. Please ask yourself if you can afford the section. Please ask yourself if you can afford to take time off work to hand raise the litter. Please ask yourself if you're willing to keep each and every puppy for the next 15+ years. If you answered no to any of these question, please, I implore you, spay/neuter your pet.

I haven't updated my litter diary this week because I'm busy with 12 fosters right now, including 3 orphaned pups that I'm hand raising. As I'm signing off here, I'm warming their bottle and feeding them. They are hungry again....and will continue to be totally dependant upon me for their survival for another few weeks. If you really need to know if you can do it or not, give me a call. I'll happily bring you the babies for 24 hours. Then you can honestly answer these questions while I get some much needed sleep. I'm tired, folks, and live for the day that rescue is not needed. I don't think it'll happen in my lifetime but I pray to God that the words get through one person at a time, one spay/neuter at a time....


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## Tanna (Jan 29, 2009)

This is a very well said post and all that are considering breeding their dogs should read it and re read it several times. I to have been distrubed by the events of the last few litters, i don't even want to open the posts regarding a new litter for fear of what it's going to reveal. Please everyone remember all those sad faces in shelters that will never have a good home and will die trying to find one.


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## ExoticChis (Jun 20, 2010)

Hi Lisa,
Thanks you for taking the time away from your puppies to write this, its something that really needs to be said, but unfortunately it will not get across to everyone 
backyard breeding and breeding just for the sake of it is a massive problem world wide.
Most people just see the $$$ that they think can be made and they dont look past it.
I completely agree with everything you have said and I do hope that the words do get through to:
_one person at a time, one spay/neuter at a time...._


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## MsGramma (Jul 23, 2010)

I totally agree!
Great post.


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

Very well said!! 
Breeding is/can be heartache as well as joyful


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## QUIGLEY'S MOM (Jan 12, 2010)

We had the most special toy poodle when I was growing up. My folks bred her to a smaller male and did all the right things during her pregnancy. She went into labor and could not birth the 5 pups she was carrying. She had a c section and never woke up. Such a sad time for our family loosing our beloved girl. We managed to raise her 5 puppies. What a learning experience. LaMarChi's is correct. Leave breeding to the experts. Loosing your beloved pet just is not worth it!


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## omguthrie (Oct 13, 2009)

Thank you for this post. I've been very disturbed at the number of problem litters that have been happening lately.

I think part of the problem are the people who don't want to breed but don't spay and neuter and lack the knowledge to prevent unwanted pregnancies. We've all seen the recent thread where the babies were lost and the female finally spayed, but only after the tragedy. If she is never meant to be bred then spay her! Don't depend on other people to keep their male dogs away, don't depend on doggie panties to keep her safe during heats, etc. If you are not prepared for the work involved in keeping intact females then spay her!

I'm also disturbed at the sheer number of posts of people who's dogs are going through their first heats that don't know anything about what is happening. "Why is she bleeding?" "Why is my male dog mounting my baby girl?" If you don't know even how long a heat lasts or what it looks like how can you keep your girl from getting bred? Research people before deciding to keep your girl intact! I'm amazed that there are not more litters from first heat breedings on here.

I am fostering a litter of 3 week olds. They were dumped in a box at a shelter, covered in 200+ ticks, so anemic their gums were gray, skinny and scared. No mom in sight. I'm sure these are a result of an unspayed girl whose owner didn't pay attention to the signs of heat. The pups got to be a problem so the solution is box them up and drop them off in the middle of the night at the local shelter. Now I get to try to keep them alive and recover from the early neglect.

"Just one litter" or "so the kids can see the miracle of birth" are not good reasons!


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## tricializ (Jun 1, 2010)

This is a great post. My 2 are spayed and neutered as will my new puppy I am getting. I think if you want to give your kids the joy of life, rent a video, go to a farm etc. I have had even a vet say that Maya is so cute. I should breed her. She isn't even 3 lbs! This was said as I was bringing her in to be spayed. Makes you wonder. My heart does go out to those who have had losses recently as I am sure their heart was in the right place. But this is a good post to read. Thank you.


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## MakNLFi (Jun 8, 2010)

I totally agree 100%. As soon as Chloe is old enough yes she will be spayed - same as my toy poodle Colette was spayed. Yes the new pups are adorable and cute, but it so is totally not worth the risk for the untrained person to deal with.


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## Terri (Aug 21, 2009)

I totally agree with this post too, well about the folk that dont do the reearch needed and are not prepared in any way, or were not even expecting these puppies to come about in the first place.
However that hasnt been the case with all the new litters lately and even the most experienced breeders can still lose a pup.
It happens sadly.
No matter what it must be sooo heartbreaking, i wouldnt wish it on anyone.

I wouldnt have a clue and wouldnt want to do it personally.
Quite a few folk said to me oh you should let Darla have a litter, the pups would be beautiful, and when i say no she was spayed and i only ever wanted pets they are like oh that is such a shame.
Even Darla's breeder said dont rule it out.
Anyway she was spayed at 7 months, Daisy will be spayed as soon as it isnt a risk to her health since she had complications due to giving birth before i got her.
My vet wants me to wait a while yet.
Meantime i am so so careful with her and always will be till she can have the op.
Dillon will also be neutered as soon as possible.
It really isnt for everyone at the end of the day. xx


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I am glad someone put this into "words". Eventually, yes, I do want to breed. But I'm doing my homework and my work first, and when the time comes, a mentor and every resource available will be by my side. There is a reason I have two purely "pet" chi's...because I know things CAN and DO happen, even when you are perfectly prepared, and I don't want to breed my pets...breeding should ONLY happen to further the breed. No ifs ands or buts, IMO. 

No one ever would wish these things on any animal, but the reality is...they happen, and even more often when there is a lack of preparation. It's heartbreaking.


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## MisStingerRN (May 16, 2010)

I too have been very upset with all the loss going on around here lately. It's senseless. I recently posted some links to help people that may not be able to spay or neuter due to financial hardship and asked that it be stickied. I got not response. Right or wrong, people that have the money or not, do have dog's. They do breed them. It's something that can be avoided and should be at all costs. It upsets me that thread seemed of little importance. 

I appreciate that you took the time to write this thread Lisa. It was very well written and it needs to be read and "heard."


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Terri said:


> I totally agree with this post too, well about the folk that dont do the reearch needed and are not prepared in any way, or were not even expecting these puppies to come about in the first place.
> However that hasnt been the case with all the new litters lately and even the most experienced breeders can still lose a pup.
> It happens sadly.
> No matter what it must be sooo heartbreaking, i wouldnt wish it on anyone.


This was not directed at our members who are struggling with their current litters. It was directed at anyone else who may be contemplating that first litter. All too often, even with the research, owners think it won't happen to them or their dog. Hence the title of the post. Yes, absolutely, experienced breeders lose pups..and moms too. I just lost my tiny boy and every day with Glory is a wait to see if she makes it or not. However, I am not the same as the typical pet owner. 

When we breed a litter, we expect (and are prepared for) the worst and hope for the best. Average Joe Blow expects the best and never even considers the worst could happen to him. It's the dogs that suffer. 

I offer nothing but support to our members currently undergoing these tragedies. I've been there and understand the pain. I'm sure they will be the first to agree that things didn't go as they thought it would and would caution others to understand that it can happen to them too.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Thank you for writing this post Lisa. You put into words what many of us were thinking and I appreciate your heartfelt post in an effort to help others. Thank you very much.

I hope that if people are thinking of breeding, they arm themselves with knowledge and not just put two dogs together because they can.


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## sookey (Feb 10, 2010)

Very well said, alot of us have been thinking these things but have not had the words to express. And coming from someone with such knowledge to write a post like that is amazing and i personally thank you. 

I have never for one second thought about breeding any of my animals. I have had alot of offers for a tom cat to go over my p/b himalayan and i always decline.

Also people are assuming i am going to breed Honey and Milo. But there is no way i would do that. Not just because she is WAY to small but also because i have 4 kids etc and i could never cope if i lost another chi.

I hope people don't get offended by this post and take it on board as it is just the facts....
Once again very well done


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## lynx8456 (Feb 26, 2009)

Excellent post


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

awesome post and very well said


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## huskyluv (Oct 24, 2008)

Thank you Lisa for sharing that wonderful post, very well spoken. Kudos for sharing.


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## LDMomma (Mar 28, 2009)

Thank you for that post Lisa.

People being confused about what to do when their animal is in heat is not necessarily because they decided NOT to spay. My Lily went into her first heat one week before her spay appointment. She was 6 months old. We didn't realize that she would go into heat at such a young age. We were intending (and did) to spay her. When she started bleeding we were like HUH?, we didn't even consider that she may be in heat until I took her to the vet. Once I knew she was in heat, we kept her in the house and didn't let her outside until her spay appointment came. We didn't have puppies.


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## cherper (May 8, 2009)

excellent post!


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## tricializ (Jun 1, 2010)

LDMomma said:


> Thank you for that post Lisa.
> 
> People being confused about what to do when their animal is in heat is not necessarily because they decided NOT to spay. My Lily went into her first heat one week before her spay appointment. She was 6 months old. We didn't realize that she would go into heat at such a young age. We were intending (and did) to spay her. When she started bleeding we were like HUH?, we didn't even consider that she may be in heat until I took her to the vet. Once I knew she was in heat, we kept her in the house and didn't let her outside until her spay appointment came. We didn't have puppies.


Similar with Maya. I have spayed or neutered every dog I have ever owned. Maya broke her leg at 4 months and required 2 surgeries. The stress of that on her tiny little body along with the rehab...and it was not the time to do surgery. Then she was so tiny and skinny that we wanted a little more body fat on her. She went into heat despite being so thin and was spayed right after with no issues.  But she also never is out unattended and Bruiser is neutered. So, even if she wasn't spayed, I wouldn't be worried about puppies. One thing though was that when she was spayed about 4 weeks after the heat cycle, she was STILL in it because of a tumor on her ovary. So, there are times when I can see that accidents could happen.


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## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

i agree with what you say lisa and i know you are there for support and help whenever anyone needs it what you say is so true as i found out myself today it was just so bittersweet has it put me off breeding no because i knew the risks involved and put a lot of thought into this i never just put my 2 dogs together i knew i had the finance and people behind me to mentor me through this wich i did have to call on and would have been lost without (you know who you are) and im thankfull to them. with my joy came sadness and i wish it had not happened i was willing to do anything and pay anything to save my little pup but it would have been in pain and that i would not have wanted im sad but also happy at my gorjuss babies but yes if you want to breed be aware that along with joy often comes sadness with these fragile little ones


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## Tink (Oct 14, 2009)

Very well said, Lisa. I completely concur.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

~*Mandy*~ said:


> i knew the risks involved and put a lot of thought into this i never just put my 2 dogs together i knew i had the finance and people behind me to mentor me through this wich i did have to call on and would have been lost without (you know who you are) and im thankfull to them. with my joy came sadness and i wish it had not happened i was willing to do anything and pay anything to save my little pup but it would have been in pain and that i would not have wanted im sad but also happy at my gorjuss babies but yes if you want to breed be aware that along with joy often comes sadness with these fragile little ones



Aww Mama I hope you were not feeling like anyone was attacking you with this thread, I did read it earlier but I didn't reply initially as I was busy with human little people 

The timing of this thread is sooo soon for a few members who have lost both mamas and babes, I am absolutely sure that 99% of the people on this forum are educated and want what is best for their dogs.

I don't think anyone here (I could be wrong) would casually saunter into breeding being completely uneducated, knowledge is power!

On the same coin I don't think Lisa would post this directing it at our members who have lost both mama & babes, she seems the sort who is genuinely loving and caring.

This is the real world, and sometimes unpleasant things happen.
Despite anyone's best intentions, and this supersedes all levels of intent and education.

**hugs** everyone.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

I am so happy you posted Lisa mine would have been a lot ruder lol it's bothered me that dogs are being bred willy nilly with no experience, mentors anything and the mums and pups are suffering!!! All the oopsie litter should not happen spay and neuter your dogs it won't happen then!!! 

In the uk chis aren't as common as the us but there is a lot of pets being bred and people are being charged £2000+ for a dog. There are a lot of bad breeders (if they even deserve that word) who will do the minimum for the puppies and they come flea ridden, malnourished and unsocialised that bothers me.. Personally I think they give proper breeders a bad name!

Anyway I'm off on a tangent it's uncommon to find a rescue chi in the uk

But what I would say is if you want to breed do your research, get a mentor and make sure your dogs are to standard! (Mandy and Amy are prime examples of how it should be done... Good jobs guys  ) 

Tbh I think people are v lucky you care so much because your wealth of knowledge has saved complete strangers dogs and I hope your post will help people decide to spay and neuter!!!!


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Lisa thank you for this post, you have made a very convincing argument for all us pet owners to do the right thing and spay/neuter our pets. 

No amount of expensive foods, toys or clothes will ever outweigh the gift of a spay or neuter for our dogs.

I think of all dogs - breeding chihuahuas is for the experts, so much can go wrong.

And Lisa thank you also for providing such support to those who have needed it - it is truly appreciated even by all of us members who haven't needed your support. I can feel terribly upset and helpless when someone comes on for specific urgent advise and I can't offer it - thank you


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## Terri (Aug 21, 2009)

Oh no i didnt think it was directed at the new mums on here at all.
I just wanted to add that bit incase they thought that for even a second.
Like Kitty D said it was just the timing of it.

Lisa you do great work and have really been there for people that needed the help.
I hope folk stop breeding willy nilly too and actually really think long and hard of what it involves.
Oh and Sara i hear you too, lol x


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## Neve38 (Dec 26, 2009)

Well said that's what I say, too many people breeding just to make money and not thinking about the poor mama chis and babies. xx


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## jan896 (Dec 9, 2009)

AGREE!! I am one that cannot understand how anyone can put their little one thru the PAIN of birth.... I still remember the pain of my son's birth 40 YEARS ago... I had one child and that was that! I could never put Chico thru a painful ordeal


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

Thank you so much for your post, Lisa. Knowledge is definitely power and I really appreciate your effort to help others.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

jan896 said:


> AGREE!! I am one that cannot understand how anyone can put their little one thru the PAIN of birth.... I still remember the pain of my son's birth 40 YEARS ago... I had one child and that was that! I could never put Chico thru a painful ordeal


LOL and we have epidurals, gas and air.. pethadine etc (fyi i had nothing.. go me im like a mumma dog lol)


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## Amanda Kennedy (Nov 5, 2008)

~*Mandy*~ said:


> i agree with what you say lisa and i know you are there for support and help whenever anyone needs it what you say is so true as i found out myself today it was just so bittersweet has it put me off breeding no because i knew the risks involved and put a lot of thought into this i never just put my 2 dogs together i knew i had the finance and people behind me to mentor me through this wich i did have to call on and would have been lost without (you know who you are) and im thankfull to them. with my joy came sadness and i wish it had not happened i was willing to do anything and pay anything to save my little pup but it would have been in pain and that i would not have wanted im sad but also happy at my gorjuss babies but yes if you want to breed be aware that along with joy often comes sadness with these fragile little ones


:daisy:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
well said mandy,


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## KayC (May 3, 2005)

Lisa what a great post, Thank you for taking the time to write it and to help the members wth what ever questions they may have had. I Have been afraid to open cp lately has it is just to heart breaking to read these sad stories, but they need to be told. Thank You very much. You are always fair and non judgemental. We really appreciate you sharing your wealth of knowledge.


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## princess-jezebel (Jul 2, 2011)

*orphaned baby boy*

someone left an enclosed storage case on my vets doorstep.inside was a dead adult female chi,female baby that only lived a few hours and a little blue boy with tan markings(like a dobie).he called me cuz i have 2 chis,have done rescue work and im a retired vet tech(im at home 24/7).ive only had him about 20hrs(hes asleep inside my shirt right now).i named him 'baileys irish cream'-bailey for short.how could someone do this to them?:foxes15:


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## LadyJ (Aug 20, 2010)

Amen! Well said! 

Jeanette


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