# Vestibular disease



## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

any one have encountered this in their chihuahua? My coco is 11 she was coughing took her to the vet and he did extensive blood work and xrays. The next morning she could barely walk and extreme head tilt. Back to the vet he diagnoses her with this and this is day 4. I helped supported her to go potty this morning she ate half of her food and he upped her prednisone but since this morning she seems to have gotten worse. She is not doing well. Any help could be appreciated.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

This is sort of an inner ear problem. Makes the dog dizzy, with head tilting etc. Prednisone helps with the inflammation. I wonder if the dog also has heart disease? The coughing is usually not associated with with this problem. (not a vet, but just wondering?) Here's hoping that the increase in medication will help.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

*vestibular disease*

Yes Susan there is evidence that she has heart disease we were going to proceed with an ultrasound this week however then this happened. I am convinced she was so stressed by taking her in the back to do the xrays that it brought on this episode. I've just sent an email to the vet hopefully he responds in the morning I dont think at this time she is ready for the ultrasound which will surely stress her out. I wonder if anti nausea meds might help. 

I know you have owned several chihuahuas and I was hoping for you to answer me. Thank you. 

I know at 11 her time is limited but if my memory serves me correct you had a female with heart disease. I am just trying to figure out how and why this came on so quickly. She also has suffered for years with chronic ear infections. It seems that is related to this as well.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

My chihuahuas that had heart problems were there for years in the form of heart murmurs, that suddenly got worse. I have an 11 year old now that has tracheal collapse with the enlarged heart pressing on it. Causes coughing. I think this is a problem with chihuahua breed. Some 'better' breeders actually screen their dogs before breeding them. For murmurs. I wish I knew why murmurs that are there for years suddenly become so dangerous.

Now as to your little one. Would the vet give her some valium or sedation before she went back for the ultrasound? Maybe you could even take her back home until she becomes sleepy? The problem with the vestilbular problem is usually a week or two at the most. Hopefully this is the case. Feel free to ask me questions! Not a vet, but very interested in medicine--am a retired medical assistant.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

Well back to the vet we went this morning. She couldnt even be held up with the harness this morning. Vet said she should have gotten better by now this is day 6. I'm really upset with him today as he said not much we can do and suggested putting her to sleep. I'm not ready to give up on her as she is eating drinking and going potty. I went to speak with another vet this afternoon who is going to review her xrays and blood work and call me tomorrow. She was better an hur ago was actually standing for a few minutes on her own. 
Like I said I'm not ready to give up on her. Still wagging her tail.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass, I wonder if the recurrent ear infections have spread to the brain? I hope the new vet will x-ray her head to see if there is any tumor or infection there. At this rate, as long as she is not in pain, supportive care is all you can do. I'm so sorry this is happening. If a dog is eating, pooping, peeing, I don't know what to say.Keep your head up, and do the best you can. Prayers are with you.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

*vestibular disease*

Thanks for the support Susan. She ate again this morning and drank took her out to potty was hard to tell if she peed she was so low to the grass and contorted I'm hoping shes resting now. The second vet was going to review the xrays and blood work and get back to me but hasn't yet. 

I'm just doing some heavy praying and letting her rest blinds drawn and quiet in the room with blankets around her bed so she cant fall out. She will prop herself up on front two and turn several times during the day. 

I know her time is limited I just hope when its time she just falls asleep. This is breaking my heart.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: it seems as if she is holding her own. Just keep doing what you are doing. Has the 'new' vet called you yet? Have you googled brain supplements for dogs? Sometimes the supplement may help, sometimes not. Just a thought.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cassandra, Any news?? I looked today, but there was no message from you. Hopefully things are better.


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## Pattimay (Jul 28, 2012)

My Hannah will be 17 in June. She was doing well until about 7 months ago. Started with cough and getting very picky eating. Ultrasound showed enlarged heart and mitral valve disease common with small breeds. She also has collapsing trachea and was given cough suppressant. The coughing was putting a bad strain on her already stressed heart. she was put on water pill and heart pill. The last week I could not get her to take the pill no matter what I put it in. She only eats cooked food now. Tried every trick in the book including natural low salt peanut butter, pill soaked and tucked in steak, low fat chop meat, potato, plain oatmeal, sweet potato etc. She would just spit it out. So the rush in middle of night to emergency vets. She was struggling to breath. I thought it's time. The emergency vet gave oxygen and intravenous and removed the water from lungs and she snapped back and stable. So now trying to get pills in her or she will go into congestive heart failure again. When she's on the pills she is still barking, walking around back yard now that's it's warmer some days . I found the secret of getting her to eat the pills with a tiny bit of vanilla ice cream. At least for now. If she goes into crisis again I do not want to put her through bringing her back again. So for now will give her loving attention and make her time left with us comfortable filled with her favorite food. My birthday and mother's day is coming up and treating ourselves to costco's delicious filet mignon which she will also share in and her favorite watermelon for dessert.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

*vestibular disease*

I went in to talk to another vet sent him the x-rays and blood work he said sounds like shes in serious trouble. He said he would review and never called me. 
This is day 15 and she has progressed where is she starting to stand on her own although still wobbly lets me take her out with the harness and actually walks in the grass to potty. We had reduced her prednisone and after 4 days coughed all night so up it went again. She tried playing with one of her toys yesterday wagging her tail hasnt missed one meal yet and drinks water from the palm of my hand cupped. Shes a little aggressive at times, 
The eyes going back and forth have subsided but shes a determined little dog. I can only hope for the best given that she is 11.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

I agree we can only make them feel at home and loved. I'm just doing my best.Hang it there.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: your recent post has an interesting sentence in it: "the eyes going back and forth has stopped". This is most significant for vestibular disease. I had a cat that had this and came down the hall falling over and over again. She recovered fully. If you got the name of the 'new' vet from your current vet, I'd let them know that he never called you back. You made x-rays and blood work available, and its not acceptable for them not to call back. At any rate it seems as if she is improving. The prednisone is taking care of any inflammation there is. Sometimes it takes a long time to taper the dose. (Take it very slowly: one milligram a week). If the symptoms come back, go back. I can only tell you what happened to me and my dog/cat. Not a vet! Just interested in medicine.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

Yes Susan the shifty eyes have stopped a sure sign of vestibular disease. No the other vet was next door to where I buy my animal supplies and the girl that works there recommended me. He was very pleasant took a lot of time to hear my story said he wouldnt charge me to review the three xrays and the blood work. Funny thing I remember my vet saying to me the day I brought her in saying her heart murmur wasnt anything bad but in all the years he has never even mentioned a heart murmur. I remember he sent me her file 40 pages to my email when I travelled to florida in case anything happened while we were there with her and I sat and reviewed every page not one mention of heart murmur. 
I had to bump up the prednisone back to 2.5 mg when I had cut it in half for three days she started coughing again. I asked him to refill my perscription which I will pick up Saturday but wait till my appointment in two weeks for him to have a look at her and maybe she will be strong enough for an ultrasound providing I can be with her I'm not allowing them to take her in the back cause this is where this all started when they took her in the back to do xrays and blood work I'm convinced this was brought on by stress as she isnt friendly with anyone other than our family. Since they call in an ultrasound technician and hes mobile I'm sure they can do it in the exam room with me there. $450 for the ultrasound but we can then know if she needs heart meds. 
Thanks for caring Susan


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: I didn't see my answer to your post yesterday. So I will repeat===sorry if you did get the answer.

Is the prednisone in a liquid form? If not, maybe you can get it 'compounded' into a liquid. It is so much easier to 'wean' them off the medication. If she failed a lesser dose (how much did you lower the dose to?) you need to wean her off more slowly. By that I mean by TENTHS of a milligram, which you can't do with a pill. I had a cat with IBS and I weaned her too fast. I had to go back and do it slowly. Took me 7MONTHS!! She is now 15 and doing fine. Just a suggestion: I'm not a vet, just a medical assistant, retired.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

No Susan the prednisone is in pills form. We were giving her half of a 5 mg tablet I decreased it to half of that when the coughing came back. Three days after upping back up she has no cough however today she is refusing to eat. Drinks water but doesnt want any food I have tried turkey meatball even with some gravy, hot dog, chicken nope wont eat a thing so I havent been able to get her pill down either today. Please keep her in your thoughts today.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: will your pup take 3/4's of a pill in p.butter? 5mg down to 2.5 is a little much it seems. If you have a pill spliter at home cut the tablet in half, then the halves in half. That will give you 3.75mg for the day. I'm assuming the vet told you to give this medicine in the AM, as that is when the 'natural' cortisone secreted by the body peaks.

As for the not eating prednisone sometimes makes the tummy upset. Maybe get an antiacid recommended by your vet? I'm sorry you are having this problem. Just keep doing what you are doing and keep your chin up. I'm here whenever.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

Hey Susan. I guess I may not have wrote this right she has never been on anything higher than 2.5 mg. I split half of that. Yes it was a 5mg tablet but the vet split them in half for me. No she wont take anything today. We even tried liquifying it into a syringe and she put up such a fight we cant get it into her. Dont want to stress her out anymore I'm just letting her rest at this point.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: prednisone is really bitter to the taste. (I was on it for 38 years for steroid dependant asthma and I remember when very occasionally the tablet started to melt in my mouth---ugggg!) Lets hope by tomorrow she will feel like eating. I'm really surprised that your vet gave you tablets for the size of your dog. My vet most often gives me liquid. Right now I'm giving Bonnie 1cc of PriLosec to see if that will help her tummy episodes. If nothing happens, maybe you can ask your vet to call a pharmacy to make it into a liquid form. I did this with PreLosec. I knew they could do this, as we had an infant in Church that was taking it. Ask!


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

*vestibular disease*

Well managed to get her prednisone into her and this morning we syringe fed her baby food with veggies, fruit and quinoa. Shes resting now. Shes standing around from time to time looking like she doesnt know where she is almost looks like dementia. She pottied this morning we also syringe fed her water. This is really bizarre. I wont give up on her but its not looking promising at 11.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

There certainly is a form of dementia with dogs. I think at this age you wouldn't do much about it (as long as you and she are comfortable) ie: if she is waking you up at night. If it is bothersome, there are vet products for this condition. I also would give her baby food meats. No ham, but lamb, beef etc are OK. Remember that the prednisone makes her hungry, so I'd feed her maybe 3 times a day. Small amounts. Keep up the water too. Bless you for trying so hard to make her comfortable.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

*vestibular disease*

Thank you Susan I will definately get some of the meat baby food today. Yesterday we fed her the apples,peas,quinoa. Gave her water at least three times. She peed this morning in the yard but was very wobbly. Shes just resting a lot.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

I sent you an answer that the carrier said was never sent??? Whatever, what I wrote was there is an easy way to see if you are giving enough liquids. Lift her lip and touch her gums. They should be wet. If they are 'sticky' she's not getting enough. Chicken broth is another way to get fluids into her.

How long has this been going on now? Does she seem to be improved? If you are having to force feed her, then you have some decisions to make. Are you keeping her alive for you? Does she seem to enjoy life? If she is eating, pooping and peeing by herself- fine. If not---. I don't relish posts like this, but at 11 years, you have to sometimes make decisions for the dog, not yourself. Sorry if I have offended you, just saying what is on my heart.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

No offense taken she will be seeing the vet for an ultrasound tomorrow. He said it may be that shes not getting enough oxygen to her brain which is why she appears lost. I'll update once we see him tomorrow. She is going in the backyard to pee but we are syringing her food and water. If he says its a lost cause we have a decision to make for sure.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

Update coco had ultrasound yesterday waiting for the report either today or monday he said. He said they didnt see anything on first glance major still thinks this is related to her brain from 5 years ago. Please pray for her.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: what happened to her brain 5 years ago? Injury? Lets hope that she will be able to recover from whatever they find.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

*vestibular disease*

Hi Susan. I guess you dont remember 5 years ago she suddenly stopped eating and after countless xrays etc and visits to the vets and neurologist she was diagnosed with Steroid Responsive Menengitis. They put her on a high dose of prednisone and eventually weaned her down to be maintained on 1/4 of a 1 mg tablets every second day. 
This time I brought her in from coughing and after they took her in the back did xrays and blood work the next day she presented with this vestibular problem.
I still think it caused her too much stress and I'm convinced she had some sort of stroke. 
Well I guess we should hear today or Monday to see if the heart is causing this or not.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: yes I do remember now you mentioned it. I think that you are probably right that this is some sort of brain 'insult'. Stroke, bleed, infection, whatever. Most dogs recover from strokes; unlike humans. At 11 years, I don't really know if she can recover. Force feeding food and water is really extreme, and she hopefully can start eating and drinking on her own. Prayers are going out to you and Coco.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

*vestibular - encephalitis????*

Hey just got a call from the vet the results of her ultrasound is that although some evidence of minor heart disease he said this is not heart related no tumours in the lungs etc so goes back to say its encephalitis and without another mri or spinal tap to the tune of $5000 he is reluctant to put her on antibiotics which is how encephalitis is treated. If its bacterial then it would help but if not it wont do any good. Well, we are going to try the antibiotics as a last resort. Anyone have any experience with encephalitis? Any names of antibiotics I dont have a name yet I will be picking it up in an hour.
Please keep coco in your prayers.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: why does your vet not want to increase the steroids to what it was when she was sick 5 years ago? Maybe this is a second round of that??? I would want an antibiotic that went through the brain membrane. I'm going to google encephalitis in dogs---


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

She is on that currently 2.5 mg. that was what she had 5 years ago. He has now given me clavaseptin antibiotic. 
I'm just at my wits end shes just getting worse day by day. This is making me a nervous wreck. I really had to push him to get the antibiotics today its just making me cry as I dont know how much longer she will last.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: I'm so sorry about all of this. I think you have done everything that is possible for this dog. googling encephalitis: not good. There is something called nectrotizing (spelled) encehalitis that is not really cureable. My heart goes out to you. I just don't think this dog can survive these problems.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: haven't heard about Coco for a few days. Is the antibiotic working at all? Please let me know! My best wishes are with you and Coco. You must be exhausted.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

*vestibular - encephalitis????*

No Susan it doesnt seem to be helping she seems to be paralized on her left side. Problem is we cannot get her to pee. We have watched every video of how to express her bladder and it just doesnt work. She isnt responding much anymore we are hoping that she goes in peace. We as a family dont believe in killing our animals that god will take them when they are ready. She will still take the water and baby food from us in a syringe but even that is slowing down to her response. We are just praying for her she is such a stubborn dog.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

While I agree with your right to not euthanize her, I believe that she is suffering. My vet has the neatest method of euthanizing an animal. She gives an injection of the anesthetic used to intubate dogs/cats for dentals. This is a gentle way and the animal is unconcious in minutes. Then they can shave a leg, and inject the agent. The dog/cal is unconcious and feels no pain. I have witnessed this and it just was so gentle. Whatever, I want you to know that you have done tons of stuff that most owners would never think of. My good feelings to you and your family.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

*vestibular - encephalitis????*

Well yesterday we took her to a new vet in our area who came recommended. I brought her file with me with xrays blood work and ultrasound from friday. We got a complete different diagnosis. He does not believe that this is encephalitis or menegitis. He examined her gave her fluids and put her on a new antibiotic. He believes this is from the middle ear and said she is not paralysed in one side she feels from froot foot and rear and there is no face paralysis. He said we will see what happens in 10-15 days. He said she is not suffering just frusterated that she cant stand. He also gave us a special support dog food to give her. She had a good night last night. So we shall wait and see what happens. She did pee yesterday said nothing in her blood work shows that her organs are shutting down and that there is a small bit of evidence that she is developing heart disease all indications are that the heart is fine. There is no nystagmus of her eyes etc. Thinks this vestibular is ear related and has seem many dogs recover. Not thinking we are going to have a miracle but like I said we are willing to try.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Oh good!!!! Maybe, just maybe this antibiotic and fluids, and special food will help. Did this vet mention dehydration? Fluids are so important. I gave fluids under the skin to a sheltie who was in kidney failure. brought her 6 more weeks. Do you measure how much water you syringe into her? Ask this vet how much water you should be giving her a day? If he gave her fluids, he may think she was dehydrated?


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

Yes he thought she was a little dehydrated I actually asked him if he could give her to maybe give her a boost. We are giving her a large syringe slowly anytime she starts licking her lips like she is thirsty and she readily takes it. I think today we gave her 8-10 syringes of water. She will only take one syringe of the special dog food but we are mixing chicken noodle soup with turkey meatballs liquified in the magic bullet and she will take that freely. 
The dazed look in her eyes seems to be a bit better today as is her response when we call her. Nothing major yet but its only been one day. 
If anything happens I know we have done our best and my mom and dad are giving her the best nursing care as she responds so much to my dad.
I will keep you posted for sure. 
I'm just so angry at my vet. This vet said that 9 out of 10 times vestibular is brought on by middle ear infections which should be treated with antibiotics not drops. It may have helped when she first came on with this but I am still convinced that something happened when they took her in the back to do xrays. We are thinking she put up a fight and banged her head on the xray table and they just didnt want us to know because this new vet suspects that she could have gotten a brain bleed. I guess we will see 10-15 days from now if she has permanent damage he said.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: just being nosy: how big is the 'large syringe'? If it is a 5cc then 10x would equal 50cc's. That equals about a little less (9cc) than 1/4 of a cup. Ask this vet how much H20 she should be getting. I think you are wonderful to this dog! Maybe she will surprise everyone and do better.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

Not sure the cc's since we are in canada our system is different. Shes getting about 7-10 oz of water. He said to give her as much as she wants. Shes only 6 lbs and in addition shes getting the chicken soup with ground turkey meatballs so she gets the liquid from that too. 
She had a restless night but was moving more than I've seen the last week. One day at a time.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: glad she is moving more. That's good. It looks as if she is getting about a cup of water? That is good plus the fluid in the 'soup' too. Keep up the good work.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

Yes shes getting that at least plus the food. Although she is moving around we've had to put a doggie diaper since we cant get her to stand and we are unsuccessful at trying to express her bladder and shes ended up peeing the bed a few times.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Really nice to have those available!! Is it your bed she peed on or hers?I use the washable human pee pads for my pups. They don't go outside, and they are very good about using them.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

She did both my parents bed and her own bed.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

You could use the disposable pee pads for her bed---. How does she get up on your parents bed? Maybe she can lie on something that is waterproof?


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

Yes we are using the disposable pee pads. She has always slept with my parents they carry her up at night. We have pee pads i everything she lies on now its working pretty well.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Is she showing any progress in trying to stand? How long has she been on the new antibiotic---I lost count.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

The first antibiotic finished this morning and the second one finishes wednesday. She has been lifting herself up even wiggled out of her bed today but other than that no significant progress. The new vet called today to see how she is and suggested reevaluation either friday or saturday.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Hey that's progress! Is she able to 'go' outside with your help in helping her with a harness?


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

No her left leg just buckles. I have an appointment at the vet tomorrow morning at 9:30 to reevaluate her because last night she threw up. Thats why I thought it would be better than waiting for friday or saturday. I'll let you know what he says. Her eyes are going back and forth again. Shes like a bobble head I'm sure she is spinning. Hopefully he can give her something for it.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

Back from the vet this morning. Its not good news he had hoped she would have improved by now. She has an ulcer on her eye he said from throwing the head back and forth which she cant control. Gave me antibiotic drops for that. He gave her a b12 shot, cerenia and dexamethazone. He said if there is no improvement in a day then she will not be recovering from this. Her breathing is funny now sounds like she is snoring. We will be talking as a family tonight about letting her go peacefully.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Oh Cass: I'm SO sorry. You have gone way above and beyond for this little dog. I agree about letting her go peacefully. I wonder if the breathing means that she is developing pneumonia? I know in humans that 'snoring' is often called the death rattle. Just saying. Please stay with her if you do euthanize. I have held almost all of my dogs, when they were euthanized. It is hard, but I believe that the dog has earned that.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

Update she was sitting up very alert today and moved around her bed all day long. She appears to be stronger today but who knows how this will go. The cerenia the vet gave her is helping the nystagmus alot. Yesterday she finally pooped after a week and a half. Just taking it day by day.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass: Oh my gosh! This little girl just won't give up! And neither will you. My hat is off to you. My Emmie is on cerenia also, but for a cough from tracheal irritation. Vet is using it 'off list' which means not for nasea. It seems to be helping.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

I know shes a determined little one. Trying to fatten her up now shes lost so much weight. She actually was licking herself yesterday which I havent seen her do in weeks. Any suggestions on how to fatten her up. I'm putting the magic bullet to use soaking royal canin chihuahua dog food in warm water then liquifying it. Then at the end I give her a syringe of baby food of turkey and veggies followed by water during and after.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

Well things took a turn for the worse this afternoon Coco started having seizures and within an hour she had had 8 one more on the way to the vet and two more at the vets office they were happening every five minutes. We let her go peacefully and I am now heartbroken. Didnt want her to go through any more pain because at that point she was suffering RIP my sweet coco.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Oh Cass: I just read your post, and I am in tears for you. You did absolutely everything you could for her. Coco is now running well and feeling great at the Rainbow Bridge. You are going to feel so lost without having to spoon feed, watch over her, and everything else you did. 

I wonder if the vet did a necropsy on her? As a medical person it would be interesting to find out just what this was. I certainly understand if you did not---.


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## xxcass (Jan 7, 2013)

Thank you Susan it means alot your support. It was very humane he put her to sleep with the mask then put the catheter and then did the injection. No I did not ask for that. We are having her cremated. Todays visit was $650 including the cremation and urn and pawprint. I dont even know what the cost of that would be and I dont want to know because I dont want to feel quilty if it was something we could have fixed. Better left unsaid.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Cass; that was a gentle way to euthanize a dog. My vet uses an injection that they give dogs before they intubate them for a dental. Takes a minute or two, but it is very peaceful. As for the necropsy, I seriously think that this was some sort of brain disorder. You could probably have done nothing to help her. Vet visits are out of this world, fee wise.


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