# Can dogs have nightmare?



## unchienne (Mar 29, 2009)

A while back I posted about one of the girls, most probably Tilly, peeing in their sleep. I never saw them do it, but the evidence was always there in the morning...well, the smell of evidence at least. Vet exams revealed nothing out of the ordinary for either dog, so it was a bit of a mystery.

However, last night I saw it happen.

We had all fallen asleep on the couch...Tilly, Pearl, Boo, and I. In the middle of the night, I heard Tilly "scream" and I woke up and scrambled off the couch. There lay Tilly, and a small puddle of urine underneath her...and she was still dead alseep. I woke her up, picked her off the couch, and placed her in her playpen in case it happened again, but it sort of freaked me out.

I've never seen this kind of behavior from a dog before. Both girls are urinators. Tilly still dribbles a bit when I come home (separation anxiety), and Pearl still submissive pees. We had a bit of an incident the other day. I had Pearl on the bed and was playing with her. All of a sudden, she turns over on her back and pees...just a little stream of it. I'd done nothing to frighten her or demand submissiveness..she just did it out of the blue. Now this.

What in the world is going on?


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## rebel_yell (Mar 24, 2008)

I believe that dogs do dream, so it's probably not impossible that they would be capable of having nightmares as well. If one of her waking fear responses is urinating then I suppose that could show up during a particularly scary dream. There are lots of videos on youtube of dogs dreaming or having what the owner's think are bad dreams. Have you ever seen Bizkit the sleepwalking dog? That poor guy really has some dreams and then he wakes up running into a wall! I look forward to hearing other's input on this myself.


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

Are you 100% sure she is not having seizures? Cookie has them and they always happen when he has been sleeping. They only last less than a minute. He yelps out and goes all stiff and wets himself.


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## unchienne (Mar 29, 2009)

MarieUkxx said:


> Are you 100% sure she is not having seizures? Cookie has them and they always happen when he has been sleeping. They only last less than a minute. He yelps out and goes all stiff and wets himself.


Scary thought. I'll try and check tonight to be sure, but I don't think it would be. Her body wasn't stiff afterwards, she acted like she had just woken up from a deep sleep, and her yelp was more of that "ayaa ayaa ayaa" scream that dogs do when they're being hurt or really, really scared. The whole thing lasted a few seconds because I looked down at her as soon as I was awake. 

I hope to catch it again, but it doesn't happen every night and it's only when she's in a deep sleep...which is usually when I'm in a deep sleep.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Seizures can be very mild, to the point that you wouldn't even really notice it other than the signs you are seeing. Didn't your Vet mention that Tilly may have a mild case of Hydro? I would make an appointment at a neurologist and have them check her over. Peeing in their sleep isn't common behavior. Bless her heart. I hope everything is okay. I'm not trying to scare you, but sometime mild things can be treated if caught early enough.


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## unchienne (Mar 29, 2009)

TLI said:


> Didn't your Vet mention that Tilly may have a mild case of Hydro? I would make an appointment at a neurologist and have them check her over. .



Actually, he said that the chihuahua's apple head shape came from breeders who encouraged breeding between hydro dogs in order to create the "look." He also insinuated that all appleheaded chihuahuas were actually dogs suffering from a mild case of hydro. Kind of like how scientists encourage genetic anamolies that would be looked down in nature in order to create desireable crops like seedless watermelons or thornless blackberries. 

I'm no longer with this vet (for another reason completely), but that comment struck me as being odd and presumptive when he told me.

But I _will _mention the peeing to my new vet and see what he thinks. Thanks. As for the fear...it's there now. LOL Not your fault; I'm just a worry-wart.


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## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

awwww hope its nothing serious and just a nightmare wont stop you worryingthough please let us know what the vet says xx


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## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

Oh, they can certainly dream and have "doggy terrors". I've seen it and my kids had it too. Their heart rate speeds up and they whine and moan. If you pull their eyelids up, the whites of their eyes are all you see. The three vets I've seen in my life have confirmed this. Now... about the peeing in their sleep, I have no idea. I would trust the other people's experience on that one. Andrew and I always joke about Coop. What's he dreaming about? What's upsetting him? Is it a big dog or Chloe trying to steal his bone? Good luck girl, I know you've been thru a lot with them. Has Tilly gained any weight? How's she doing???


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

unchienne said:


> Actually, he said that the chihuahua's apple head shape came from breeders who encouraged breeding between hydro dogs in order to create the "look." He also insinuated that all appleheaded chihuahuas were actually dogs suffering from a mild case of hydro. Kind of like how scientists encourage genetic anamolies that would be looked down in nature in order to create desireable crops like seedless watermelons or thornless blackberries.
> 
> I'm no longer with this vet (for another reason completely), but that comment struck me as being odd and presumptive when he told me.
> 
> But I _will _mention the peeing to my new vet and see what he thinks. Thanks. As for the fear...it's there now. LOL Not your fault; I'm just a worry-wart.



There is some truth to that. The thing is so many Vets tell their clients with Chi's that their baby has hydro, and never bother to explain that more Chi's than not actually have minimal fluid on their brain. Nothing that will cause harm or anything, but it is seen regularly when they do sonography testing. 

Also, I should have said in my prior post that I do believe dogs dream, and I'm sure your Vet would confirm that. I watch mine twitch, suddenly move their legs, random eye movement, chirping (very low sounds that would mimic barking), and various muffled sounds. The thing that concerns me is that she urinates in her sleep. I'm sorry if I scared you. That wasn't my intent. I just know sometime when we think something doesn't really mean anything, or read many comments that it is normal, we tend to disregard that their could indeed be a problem. It could turn out to be normal for Tilly, and probably will. There is no way to know without having her checked by a specialist. If they have ruled out UTI's and Kidney problems, a neurologist would be my next step. You will probably find out that it is nothing, and simply something she does. But I just feel like it's something to have checked out just to be safe. Please forgive me for alarming you.


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## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

TLI said:


> There is some truth to that. The thing is so many Vets tell their clients with Chi's that their baby has hydro, and never bother to explain that more Chi's than not actually have minimal fluid on their brain. Nothing that will cause harm or anything, but it is seen regularly when they do sonography testing.
> 
> Also, I should have said in my prior post that I do believe dogs dream, and I'm sure your Vet would confirm that. I watch mine twitch, suddenly move their legs, random eye movement, chirping (very low sounds that would mimic barking), and various muffled sounds. The thing that concerns me is that she urinates in her sleep. I'm sorry if I scared you. That wasn't my intent. I just know sometime when we think something doesn't really mean anything, or read many comments that it is normal, we tend to disregard that their could indeed be a problem. It could turn out to be normal for Tilly, and probably will. There is no way to know without having her checked by a specialist. If they have ruled out UTI's and Kidney problems, a neurologist would be my next step. You will probably find out that it is nothing, and simply something she does. But I just feel like it's something to have checked out just to be safe. Please forgive me for alarming you.


Teresa,

How funny is that when you see them twitch??? Coop dreams the most vividly out of all of ours. He is a riot. We'll just watch him and wonder what on earth is going thru his mind. He'll have little spasms and seems like he wants to tell us something. It happens every night about 9 or so and 10 is when we put him in his crate for bedtime. We've opened his mouth, his eyes, everything. I know, I know... we need to get a life. LOL. It just shocks me that they can get into a deep sleep so much sooner than humans can... I wish that would happen to me!!!


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## jazzman (Apr 8, 2009)

Carlos would run in his sleep !

He'd lay on his side, and at first his mouth would twitch, then his
front paws would twitch, finally his back legs would twitch.

All this would work to a point where his front and back legs were moving
as if he were running ( not full out, but the way they sync'd up).

He loved running, chasing squirrels, chasing balls, and rolling in the grass.
It was funny to watch him. On the occasions I decided to gently wake him,
he seemed so disappointed !

I would be concerned over the peeing while sleeping, but I never noticed this
with any of my dogs.

I hope all works out for you soon.


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

Dogs do dream but what you are describing sounds similar to what happens when Cookie has a seizure. They can be so quick. I've been asleep and been woken by his scream and it's all over within seconds and he's wet himself. Is there any way you could recoord what is happening for your vet to see? maybe on your mobile?

I honestly do not want to scare you or worry you, dogs dream I've seen mine doing it all the time BUT seizures also happen when a dog is in a resting state and they do vary. They can be so mild you don't realise it and very quick too.


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

Our cat used to act like he was lapping up his drink in his sleep, he was so cute. Cookie does that yip, yip sound when he's dreaming.


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## Krista (Dec 29, 2005)

How can you know if it is a dream or a seizure? I've heard many people say that the dream and seizing behavior can be almost identical.


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

I really hope I haven't worried you, that is not my intention at all. Please do not worry, all dogs are different.


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

Krista said:


> How can you know if it is a dream or a seizure? I've heard many people say that the dream and seizing behavior can be almost identical.


Yes they are. Ok I'll describe what I've seen with Cookie as best as I can. Cookie is ALWAYS sleeping when it starts. My vet told me and also research online told me that this is almost always the case.

I've seen it from the start sometimes and half way through sometimes so I'll explain both.

When I have seen him start fitting this is what I have seen. He's asleep. On two occassions he was startled awake by things. One was someone knocking at the door and my other Chi jumped on him in excitement, the other was when my sister burst through the door really loudly. Then it started. He goes stiff sometimes he seems to stretch himself out whist on his side until you you think his back is gonna break if he stretches anymore. All the while he is stiff, eyes rolled back. Then he seems to come out of the stretch, he's not so stiff and shakes a little bit and he's all wet. The bed is wet and his underneath is soaked in pee. Afterwards he is perfectly normal.

Another time I was asleep and he cryed this gut wrenching cry and I bolted awake. he was on his side he just kicked his legs about for a second then was all wet again.

These seizures last seconds they are so quick. Tbh if you are able to see them doing it you will know. The first time it happened to Cookie I thought he was dying but I knew afterwards what I had seen was a seizure. 

Seizures vary though, this is just what Cookie does.


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## unchienne (Mar 29, 2009)

rcj1095 said:


> Oh, they can certainly dream and have "doggy terrors". I've seen it and my kids had it too. Their heart rate speeds up and they whine and moan. Has Tilly gained any weight? How's she doing???



Last night Tilly didn't do the scared pee thing again, but Pearl made some interesting noises. She started whimpering and that turned into a growl. Then she started "barking" in her sleep...the quickly little moans that sound sort of like hiccups (I just always assumed that was their sleep barking)...and her paws started twitching. LOL To me, it looked just like she had spotted someone in her yard and was chasing him out.

I'm still keeping my eye on the Tills, but no sign of anything out of the ordinary unless I slept through it. 'Course, I was sort of glad since she was sleeping right on my neck, and a peeing incident at that point would be very icky.

The girls are both getting so big. Pearl is a chunky/cobby girl at 4 lbs. and 1 ounce exactly. Tilly has filled out in her sides and has the sleek chihuahua look now (no sinking in at the sides or ribs showing though she still retains a very slight hourglass shape), but is still only at 2 lbs. 2 ounces during our last vet visit. They're at 31 weeks, so the vet says there's a strong chance that this will be their final size, but I'm still hoping for a growth spurt from Tilly. He could tell I was worried and made sure to mention that she's very healthy...just small. It's just that I get these wild ideas in my head. What if her little heart can't take much stress and she gives herself a heart attack from separation anxiety? What if she trips and breaks her legs? And all the reports that say teeny dogs have more health problems. It doesn't help that she's so bouncy. She climbs, crawls, and jumps on everything. Constantly jumping on me, using my arm as a bridge to get her down off the top of the couch. Once she jumped off the bed and scared me half to death. I just want to keep her penned up behind a glass playpen with armholes cut out so I can pet her. LOL They'll make a movie about it: Bubble Dog. Maybe Travolta can make a cameo.


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## unchienne (Mar 29, 2009)

MarieUkxx said:


> Seizures vary though, this is just what Cookie does.


Is there treatment for it? Does it affect their life expectancy or health other than manifesting seizures themselves? Is there a test other than catching them in the act? It had never happened when I was awake...except for the one time it woke me up. It seemed to happen a lot when she was a puppy, as I would almost always smell urine on the covers the next day. Now I'd say that this is the second or third incident in two months. Whatever it is, it's like she's growing out of it to some degree.


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

unchienne said:


> Is there treatment for it? Does it affect their life expectancy or health other than manifesting seizures themselves? Is there a test other than catching them in the act? It had never happened when I was awake...except for the one time it woke me up. It seemed to happen a lot when she was a puppy, as I would almost always smell urine on the covers the next day. Now I'd say that this is the second or third incident in two months. Whatever it is, it's like she's growing out of it to some degree.


Yes there is treatment just the same as a person with epilepsy has treatment. They can give tablets. Cookie was put on phenobarbitol at first. It makes them spaced out, a bit clumsy and they gain weight. Cookie is not on anything now because the seizures are so rare. But they don't need to if the seizures are more than 6 weeks apart apparantly. Cookie only has them about once every 6 months and actually hasn't had one in over a year now. You are probably right and it's just nightmares. I'm sorry to worry you I really am.


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## unchienne (Mar 29, 2009)

No worries about worrying me. I would have worried anyways. LOL

I'm the girl that worked herself into an ulcer during the Save the Whales campaign in the 90's. LOL


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## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

Marie, poor Cookie. You must have been a wreck the first time you saw it. They can treat almost everything, can't they??? Thank goodness.

Unch, your pups sound healthy and thriving. Size can be scary but Teresa has the BEST advice about the "little" ones. She's been thru everything including little Jade, at 1 lb. hurting her leg. She's back on top and doing great. If she's a healthy little one, she'll be fine. Just more prone to human error, ya know? Throw some updated pics our way when you can. Your pups are so precious. I love seeing them. Hang in girl and keep us posted!!!


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## Marie (Apr 22, 2006)

I have a little chi-mix with seizures. She's almost 3 and a half now and has been on phenobarbitol since last November. Other than an increased appetite and some weight gain, you'd never know she was on a drug because it never made her groggy at all - not even the first few days. The appetite is the worst side effect so far - we have to work hard at keeping anything edible out of her reach. Shortly after starting on the med, she snuck into the kitchen pantry and chewed open an unopened bag of dry cat food and gorged herself on it. Prior to the drug, she would have never done something like that - in fact, just before starting the drug she had such a poor appetite that I spent nearly a month force feeding her after she had lost 2 lbs in just a week or two due to lack of appetite. Even now, just a few days ago I forgot to shut the door to our walk in bedroom closet where we keep the treats and she got into a bag of chicken strips and was chewing away on them when my husband found her. 

As for what the seizures are like - fortunately she hasn't had but one and possibly two since last November. Oddly enough, she never loses bladder control - but always vomits immediately after the seizure stops. That's why I say "possibly two" because we found a pile of vomit once after having returned from dinner and a movie. Hers don't come on suddenly though, as someelse has described. She seems to have enough time to find one of us and try to tell us something's wrong, because she's suddenly right there at your feet or head demanding attention just before it starts ...and then suddenly gets stiff with her legs extended, starts shaking, head tilted back a bit and the whites of her eyes become very visible with a terrified look on her face. Within a few seconds after it starts, she doesn't seem conscious anymore and although her eyes are still wide open, you can tell just by looking at her that she's no longer aware of what's happening around her. 

We have valium we give rectally at the first sign of a seizure so I don't know how long they would last these days if not for the valium. The vet said to wait about 5 minutes, but no longer, to see if it stops on it's own before giving the valium - but we're too frightened of what might happen if we don't use the valium immediately. Something greater than 5 -10 minutes is an estimate of about how long it would have to go on before possible brain damage. 

At first these seizures were few and far between starting when she was just 8 or 9 months old. Initially, we didn't even recognize that what was happening was a seizure - thought she had hurt her leg (had been diagnosed with osteonecrosis of the femoral head a few months prior) while chasing her sisters around the room and that the shaking and terrified look was the result of severe pain. Rushed her off to the emergency vet that day and by the time she was finally seen, it was long over and she went undiagnosed for a long time thereafter. We held off starting the phenobarb for quite a while because the seizures were few and far between but then last November the frequency increased dramatically and she had 5 or 6 within a week - that's when we began the phenobarb. She finally got officially diagnosed about a year later after rushing her off during a seizure to our regular vet. The seizure had stopped on it's own after a few minutes by the time the vet actually saw her (didn't have any valium then) but started again the minute the vet took her rectal temperature. And seeing it for herself clinched the diagnosis for the vet. Prior to that, she assumed that's what it was but wasn't certain since she'd never actually seen it occur.

Of course, no doubt at all that dogs dream and also have nightmares too. We used to have a cocker spaniel that we adopted who had been severely abused by the previous owner. She was very timid and frightened when we got her. She would wake in the night for the first few months completely terrified and it would take some time to get her calmed down. Eventually it stopped once she became comfortable and trusted us completely and she lived out the next 13+ year of her life without it ever happenng again.


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## unchienne (Mar 29, 2009)

I was finally able to catch Tilly in her behavior again. She was dreaming while I was at the computer and let out an awful scream. I turned and she was still dead asleep. No clenching, tightening of muscles, spasms, nothing...except her mouth which was doing the slight chuffing thing they do when dreaming. She didnt' pee this time around, but it scared the dickens out of me.


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## weezy6 (Aug 1, 2009)

Hi, my chihuahua wakes up in the middle of the night whining like he's hurting or something any ideas as to what is causing this?


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## Sensei (May 12, 2009)

Nugget has been having nightmares, too. Once in a while, he'll be sleeping, and suddenly, he'll make these little halfway-bark noises, like he's trying to scare something away. I usually just put a reassuring hand on him and tell him he's ok.

Late last night, he was sleeping with his back against mine. I woke up because he was taking these really deep breaths, and on the exhale, he would shudder and let out this terrified whine. I gently woke him up, and he buried his face in my neck really hard, like he was trying to hide from something. I just spoke to him in a soft quiet voice, petting him, letting him know he was safe. After a few minutes, both of us were back to sleep.

That must have been one awful nightmare he was having, the poor guy.


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