# I need so help with my chihuahua......



## Freddiesmom (Nov 29, 2005)

I have a 13 week old chihuahua puppy, and i dont know how to handle his aggression. He just bite me in my face and drew blood. I dont know what to do with him. this is starting to become really bad.he attacked my bf already and he is fine one moment the next he is really aggressive the next..what can i do about this. I have tryed everything water bottle,putting him on his back(that just makes him more mad) i put him in his crate and he wines until my next door people come over and ask me to keep the nose down...I actully had the lady ask me if i beat my dog thats how much he wines and how loud. I would never hit my dog..i could belive she asked me this, Please help


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

i think its time for a professional trainer, call your vet see if they can give you the number for a local trainer, most are willing to do some one on one sessions for these kind of behaviours...before you even consider anything drastic have the trainer come in and work a couple of sessions with you and him.
its probably just a dominance issue...
also talk to your vet about early neutering, 13weeks is early but they can do it as young as 8 weeks now and neutering will usually cut most agressive behaviours...

sorry i cant help more.
also talk to your vet about it, unexplainable agression can sometimes be a sighn of a medical situation.
though tis probably just bad behaviour from bad breeding.

my first choice woudl be getting the trainer in and rember, its not gonna happen overnight, give it sometime with the trainer.


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## rach (Jan 12, 2006)

alot of people have had this problem. browse through the titles theres at least 3 posts in the last few week.
I had the same problem with tilly. when i got tilly at 7 weeks she was lovely. then after about a week or so she was growling and snappy at everyone. it got very embarrasing.
Be firm. say "no" firmly. its so important to introduce your chi to people and other dogs. i was taking tilly out from 7 weeks (carried her,of course) she met lots of people. she got very fussed, so now she's very friendle.


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## LocasMom (Sep 11, 2005)

wow.... call a trainer, or sounds like he needs more to do. More walks, make sure you show him you are the boss.
Good Luck.


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## Gundogs (Jan 20, 2006)

OK so I don't have a chihuahua but I do have a lot of dog experience, as I work with dogs as well as owning 4.... sounds like your little guy desperately needs socialising, and confidence. I don't think neutering at an early age would help him at all, he is biting because he is scared, not because he is nasty. Try and see the world from his point of view - everything is very scary. You need to ignore bad behaviour, and reward good behaviour - do you play with him, give him little treats when he is good ? As for the "you are the boss" thing I'd suggest that you need to teach him some "manners" but in a kind rewarding manner - there is no need for aggression, or physical punishment, as this will result in him becoming aggressive. Stop picking him up all the time if you can - let him be a dog..... when he is a good boy, praise him - be gentle, and he will respond the same way I bet.


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## kitty (Dec 29, 2005)

very good advise Gun .. sounds like I'd give that a try first too instead of neutering..


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## usmcjess (May 3, 2005)

Yep sounds like he is starting to need a trainer... Hope everything works out for you.


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## Freddiesmom (Nov 29, 2005)

Gundogs said:


> OK so I don't have a chihuahua but I do have a lot of dog experience, as I work with dogs as well as owning 4.... sounds like your little guy desperately needs socialising, and confidence. I don't think neutering at an early age would help him at all, he is biting because he is scared, not because he is nasty. Try and see the world from his point of view - everything is very scary. You need to ignore bad behaviour, and reward good behaviour - do you play with him, give him little treats when he is good ? As for the "you are the boss" thing I'd suggest that you need to teach him some "manners" but in a kind rewarding manner - there is no need for aggression, or physical punishment, as this will result in him becoming aggressive. Stop picking him up all the time if you can - let him be a dog..... when he is a good boy, praise him - be gentle, and he will respond the same way I bet.


I dont think fred is biting cause he is scared though because when he bite me in my face he was laying down with me and i was patting him and then he just attacked me ..i did nothing to him i didnt even move other than my hand patting him.I dont always pick him i let him do his own thing i pick him up when he lets me know he wants up by trying to jump up on my bed and jumping on my legs.im very gentle with him i would never hurt him.and i would never smack him. im not that kind of person


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## Kalrik (Apr 29, 2005)

I totally believe you, it's a bad situation for you, I am sorry. It makes very little sense to me why a 13 week old puppy would have this sort of agressive behavior. I would definitely have a trainer come evaluate him.


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## Gundogs (Jan 20, 2006)

Is he socialised though - humanised I mean - has he been handled a lot since he was a tiny puppy ? is he scared of people in general ? you did say in your first post that you have tried everything, including putting him on his back - that is a very very scary thing to do to a dog, it is their most vulnerable position - it could be that he just doesn't like you now because you have "tried everything"............ I think you have to go back to basics with him. Each time you have contact with him you should give him a tiny treat and a stroke, and then carry on with what you were doing. Have you tried doing any training with him - at 13 weeks he should be easily able to learn a few tricks - can he sit ? hold the treat above his head and "lure" him into a sit, no need to push his bottom down. If you really feel you can't cope then perhaps you ought to return him to the breeder.


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

Was it an aggressive bite tho. Zola use to jump at my face all the time when he was hyper and wanted to ply or just get attention. He's still really young. he just has to learn that your face is your face < if that makes any sense. Giving a loud clap with yours hand can sometimes help or giving a harse blow on him with your mouth to back down. Or try just putting him on the floor after he does that and walking a way with your arms folded. He;ll get the hint eventually but I do also agree that you should look into getting a trainer. If he is this agrssive now think what he could be like in a few months


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## Freddiesmom (Nov 29, 2005)

Gundogs said:


> Is he socialised though - humanised I mean - has he been handled a lot since he was a tiny puppy ? is he scared of people in general ? you did say in your first post that you have tried everything, including putting him on his back - that is a very very scary thing to do to a dog, it is their most vulnerable position - it could be that he just doesn't like you now because you have "tried everything"............ I think you have to go back to basics with him. Each time you have contact with him you should give him a tiny treat and a stroke, and then carry on with what you were doing. Have you tried doing any training with him - at 13 weeks he should be easily able to learn a few tricks - can he sit ? hold the treat above his head and "lure" him into a sit, no need to push his bottom down. If you really feel you can't cope then perhaps you ought to return him to the breeder.


H'es been socialised with quite a few animals, including dogs and cats. As far as humanised, he's been handled since birth by various people. He's far from scared of people, he thinks everyone wants to play with him it almost seems. Yes, indeed I have tried putting him on his back, and it may be scary for him but after some research it was found to be a not so bad idea. I'm all for giving my animals treats, but if you think I'm about to give him a treat every single time I handle him, well then that's fine, but let me know when you're on your way to clean up the runs he'll end up having. Petting him is constantly done, and he lacks nothing in that department. It has nothing to do with "trying everything" with him, if trying to teach my dog something in several different ways suggested by highly suggested trainers and breeders, is going to make him hate me then so be it. Although, I think that comment was sadly mistaken the dog doesn't hate me, he simply has a massive authority issue. Pushing his bottom down was never done, always try to lure him as you say. We've been doing this and he knows how to sit and shake paw and lay down. I did not ask for opinions and so on, to be criticised (sp?) and have people think "i can't cope" it was a mere set of inquiries, that inquired a simple, sarcastic, rude and bluntly ignorant answer. Thanks


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## Gundogs (Jan 20, 2006)

I give up..... :?


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

I agree that is some very harsh comments to be makin. Afterall you just needed some advice. Zola couldn't sit until he was well over 13 weeks and still doesnt give a paw. That doesnt mean I shouldnt have him and I also used the putting him on his back method (as ALLOT of people on this board do) It worked for me and has worked for many others. Having a 13 week old puppy is ALLOT of work and it can be frustrating to so why not ask us for advice. This does NOT mean you should consider returning your chi to its breeder. You sound like a great pet owner as you registered with this board to ask questions. 

If you need any more help with your chi feel free to pm me if you dont feel comfortable asking on the board


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## Freddiesmom (Nov 29, 2005)

thank you so much paint my world.

i will pm


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## Gundogs (Jan 20, 2006)

OK let me say again - if you had a 160 lb Mastiff would you be flipping it on its back and pinning it down to show it who was in charge........ I think not, so please consider what you are doing here - as it will affect your dog for the rest of its life. "Alpha rolling" IS way out of date in the dog training world - there are far more effective kind ways of training your dog.


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## rach (Jan 12, 2006)

I have children some time i feel like i cant cope with them...should i send them back?
Dont worry Freddiesmom, as i said alot of us have had problems with our chihuahua's behaviour. Tilly has gone for my daughters face a few times at 9 or so week's old. she doesnt do it any more.
Also with the treat thing everytime the dog is lickely to put on weight so i wouldnt do that so often. and like you said it will cause nasty runs.
good luck you will be fine


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## Gundogs (Jan 20, 2006)

oh for heaven's sakes a tiny tiny piece of chicken isn't going to give your dog the runs - I don't use commercial treats anyway - more natural treats are far far better.


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

160 lb Mastiff??? This girl has a chihuahua not a 160 lb Mastiff. Do you have a chihuahua? I remember you saying you do not. So your a dog trainer. You should know all breeds are different. I wouldnt try putting a 160 lb Mastiff on it's back either

You should know Chi's are different from any other breed and like I said before soooo many people on this board have used the 'putting there chi's on there back and hold them down lightly method' and it works. DO you think any of us owners would hurt are chi's? If thats what you think then it's you that should think twice about returning to wherever you came from. 
Im not talking about throwing them on there back for godsakes. Change there life forever? I dont know what kind of putting them on there back you are thinking off but it's not the kind I would use


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## Gundogs (Jan 20, 2006)

I work with and have trained dogs of all sizes - dogs are dogs and I don't need to physically dominate them in order to have them behave the way I want them to behave. I use kind reward based methods and achieve very well this way thanks ! I wish people would update their training methods - next you'll be telling me you still use choke chains, prong collars, "Freedom" fencing, and shock collars.... :shock:


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

we ARE all good pet owners no matter what you think. As a trainer you should know different things work on different breeds and with different people. Do you want to start a thread on how you should never but a puppy on its back and see how much feedback you get on that. No, I dont think you would because you would be hounded. You may have trained other peoples pets but you did not train mine.

As an animals rights activist I would never dreak of using a muzzle or coke chain on my animal. For you to even bring that up makes me sick. You can go on on and on til your blue in the face but at the end of the day you do not know this girls dog and you do not know mine. People come in all shapes and sizes with different personalities and so do dogs. And obviously so do 'trainers'


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

of all the adivce given i still stick by my origional advice...
Sounds like your at a loss...
the problem wiht this is theres noone there to see this behaviour, we dont see the triggers or what it is, and often times its difficult to describe whats meant.
i again state i would call a local dog trainer and have them come in and do a couple of one on one sessions. they will sit with you and watch the behaviours theyll notice triggers and warning sighns and be able to offer you advice on what they see rather than what there being told.
it sounds to me very much like a dominance issue, when he doesnt want to be touched/woken up, he lets you know...unfortunatly he lets you know by going after you and this is unacceptable.
putting him on his back isnt as SCARY as its said. this is a VERY natural behaviour in dogs, the pack leader will pin the subordinates when they do something wrong or try and push their own dominance. this is NORMAL, often times the dominant will pin the dog and snarl, most of the times the unrooly one will growl snap and growl back but the dominant dog doesnt let him up till he give in...
sounds like your baby knows your afraid of being bitten (and i dont blame you) and hes usuing this to his advantage, he knows when he snarls and snapps he gets his way.
he NEEDS to learn YOU are in charge, this doesnt sound anything like a socilization issue or fear agression, this sounds like a typical case of dominance.
FOR INFORMATION: i AM a licensed dog trainer i also have my associates in animal behaviour, and am currently working on my BA in animal behaviour also.
i wish i could help you more but i definatly think this is a case for a trainer who can come into your home and work one on one with you and your dog to reteach him. 

at 13 weeks hes definatly young enough to change his ways, i wouldnt give up untill you have a professionals person to person opinion.


and just so you know YES i have dominance pinned a 163 lb bull mastif (and bigger!) and yes he struggled and growled and i dont suggest this to anyone that is in any way unsure or fearfull or not at least the weight of the mastif... (i weigh 250lbs and belive it or not im a strong girl (i played rugby form the age of 7 on an all boys team back home) and yes after a 15 minute struggle he gave in i got a couple of knicks and scratches, but he gave in and after that have NOT had a problem with this dog, now even his owner (a 95 lb older woman) can roll him over and he shows no agression as hes learnt that he is not in charge.

dogs are just that DOGS< they NEED to know whos boss by their very nature...if they feel there is no dominant figure in their "pack" they will more thna happily become that dominant figure...in order to keep the order you have to be the dominant figure and this is only attained through obedience training 
ive seen way too many people take thier dog to a shelter because it pees on the carpet, barks uncontrolably or even bites...and when asked if these dogs have any kind of training 99% of owneres would say no...how is the dog supposed to know what to do if you dont tell them. and there not humans, our language is completly alien to them, and we tend to have very difficutl body language to read due to our constant need to protect ourselves in every circumstance we as a race have begun to hide and mask bodylanguages...

also rember that these things take ALOT of time.

everyone has good experiences and bad using ANY method of dgo training, i can give you the names of at least 50 people who SWEAR by shoke chains and shock collars as a method of training and at least 20 who thing physical punishment is a great idea...i myself am NOT one of those people. i belive a dog shoudl do what you tell it to because he trusts you as his pack leader, NOT because he thinks hes gonna get hurt if he doesnt.
i am completly positive training and i use a dominance move ONLY if the situation truly requires it...when you have a very agressive 160lb bull mastif who just needs to knwo his place in the pack...id rather pin him on his back and give him the chance to learn then just have him put to sleep...

(and dominance pinning should NEVER be painfull to the dog but it should assert a dominance that the dog will know should not be questioned.)

by domesticating dogs we took their place as pack, and if we were willing to accept that responsibility we have to teach them as their pack would.

and now i ramble (which im good at) i hope theres at least somehting in this information at least one person can use...i hate to see potentially wonderfull pets (expecially those so young) just given up on...


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## Freddiesmom (Nov 29, 2005)

okay, so let me get this straight, you wish everyone to follow yourways and nobody others? are you aware your methods work for you and that's all you should rant about? are you aware that just because you do one thing one way it does not mean the next person is going to do as you do.....also i might add i expect no further comments about me doing things "wrong" because it isn't how you approach them... also foxywench im having a trainer come to my home monday to help with this. But i have not really have given up him....this is why i posted to get some adivce on it.


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

All I know is that I've been watching the show "The Dog Whisperer" and learning about becoming calm and assertive with Elvis and it's been a slow process but it's working. Like Foxy said they are DOGS... dogs don't understand anything but dog behavior. If you're not the leader of thier pack you're not going to get results. They will run your life and do as they please. Don't don't understand the word "please"... they need to to take charge and be thier leader.


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## Gundogs (Jan 20, 2006)

You just don't understand what I am trying to say. 
However hard you try you can never be a dog and therefore you can never teach your dog manners in the same way another dog would. You can never be a pack leader because you are not a dog.
For example, the older bitch in my doggy household can teach the far far bigger, younger dogs lots of manners - but she is a dog - I am not....... so I use different methods to her.
if you haven't read the article I posted much earlier, I beg you please read it and re-consider your archaic training methods. 
I don't wish to offend anyone - but I am shocked at the old fashioned methods you seem to be using.


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

Gun, have you ever seen the show "The Dog Whisperer" with Cesar Milan? This isn't a archaic training method. This is how dog training seems to be evolving. I don't want to be disrespectful and it's obvious you truly believe what you write, but if this is working, it's not mean or harmful to the dog, what exactly is the problem? 

I'd disagree that dogs are dogs... I've had a lifetime of dogs and I've never had any experience like this one tiny chihuahua. That's WHY I started to look for chi forums. Elvis has enough attitude packed into his little four pound form to be twelve other dogs. He has dominance aggression. I've been researching. To my knowledge there aren't a lot of other dogs who complain about being petted except for chihuahuas. It's mightly hard to reward with affection when affection is the reason for the problem in the first place. 

I think that you misunderstand the manner in which this is effective. You have to be very very calm you have to be in control and you have to be firm but gentle.


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## tinyfeet (Jan 28, 2006)

Ok guys i am shocked here.

I have just joined as i havent found a chi type forum before, having used mainly dog forums...

But jeez, alpha rolling???

Lets get this straight, one dog pinning another dog may be a natural behaviour, but its NOT a pleasant one!
Dogs very rarely actually FORCE another one to submit and roll on its back, certainly not in the way a human would pick up a 4/5lb dog and PUT it on its back. For a dog to do that, he has pretty much one thing on his mind, and that is to kill the other dog.

When a dog OFFERS a submissive roll, its entirely different, it is an appeasing gesture, he is saying 'hey look, im sorry, kill me if you want, you are boss of me'.

Forcing your dog into an alpha roll is not going to make him think that, and its not going to make you 'boss' its gonna make you 'person who wants to kill me'.

Most dogs react badly to this, with the exception of the very very needy and eager to please dogs, such as working bred herding dogs like the Collie.

Fiesty terrier types however react very badly, and tend to have an 'ill get you before you can get me' attitude (and damn right i would too if someone threatened to kill me!).

This seemingly common alpha rolling technique advised and recommended on here has made me feel sick. Can you really NOT train a 4lb dog any other way than by scaring the living day lights out of it? Really?

I think those of you who need to do this need to sit back and take a good look at themeselvse. Would YOU trust and respect someone who threatened you? I think you may fear them, and resent them, i don think you'd trust them!

What was wrong with the advice to reward good behaviour, perhaps wtih treats, and prevent or ignore bad behaviour?

Its easy to prevent a dog biting your face, you dont put your face near the dogs face!
Its easy to prevent your dog getting fat from treats, you simply take them out of his daily food allowance.

Is it too hard to think round these ancient and quite frankly nasty practices such as alpha rolling, and outdated and defunct theories such as 'dominance' and use a bit of what makes US the supposedly 'cleverer' species?

Or is bullying and fear the way you do th ings around here, cos if it is, im outta here!

TF.


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## tinyfeet (Jan 28, 2006)

Blue Velvet Elvis said:


> , but if this is working, it's not mean or harmful to the dog, what exactly is the problem?


Just seen this.

People used to think beating children was necessary and not harmful. Now we know thats not true.

People used to, and some still do, think yanking and jerking and popping dogs on chokers is necessary and not harmful, but you ask vets about the long term serious damage done to a dogs spine, vocal chords and trachea because of these methods.

Some wrong methods 'appear' to work, but they work for the wrong reasons. Some actually have very bad side effects over and above physical harm.

Why advocate methods that are cruel and smack of bullying tactics when there are kinder more effective methods available?

TF


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

Just like with a two year old having a temper tantrum you hold them tight and safe til it's over so they don't hurt themselves or you. Is that a problem too now?


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

**It's mightly hard to reward with affection when affection is the reason for the problem in the first place**

Well said Elvis


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

So tinyfeet 2 posts. I dont suppose my any chance you know someone called gundogs? Sorry, just a thought


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

All I know is that Elvis is happier and better adjusted now. He plays and frolicks and is a member of our family. He used to stay by himself and stay back from all of us. He's becoming a different pup. After I became the leader of all the dogs, not just Elvis they devolped a pecking order. The once most submissive dog, Jack put his paw down and stopped taking the crap Elvis was giving him. They are all now happy and play instead of Elvis stalking Jack and biting his face and paws. 

Elvis was a tiny terror. He's now happy. I didn't throw him down on the floor and sit on him. I calmly put him on my lap and stared at him and held him quietly til he settled down. I was to the point that I was either going to try to return him, rehome him or something because NOTHING worked. 

Someone had to make rules and stay by them. Like kids, dogs need rules and boundaries to feel safe.


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

This is ridiculous. I can't believe that some people are comparing dominance rolling to using choke chains and beating children. There is nothing wrong with dominance rolling. I was having a little bit of aggression issues with Madison, and rolling him onto his back and holding him really helped. You are your dog's alpha, and they need to know that.


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

I would hold Madison on his back in my lap, or on a soft place (on my bed, or the couch). I can't seem to figure out how this is cruel.


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

Additionally Elvis is beginning to LIKE having his tummy rubbed. He gets that after he settles down as he is calming down. Which is causing him to like being petted more and also helping the problem. 

I'm sure that's cruel somehow too though :roll:


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

Blue Velvet Elvis said:


> Additionally Elvis is beginning to LIKE having his tummy rubbed. He gets that after he settles down as he is calming down. Which is causing him to like being petted more and also helping the problem.
> 
> I'm sure that's cruel somehow too though :roll:


lol. Madison loves having his tummy rubbed as well when I'm doing it. He reaches up to give me kisses also!

Yep, we're both your average dog abusers :lol:


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## Gundogs (Jan 20, 2006)

Oh yes I've seen that guy - he uses prong collars and choke chains in every single program I've seen ........... 

however hard you try you are not your dog's alpha - you are not a dog, therefore you are not part of their pack....


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## tinyfeet (Jan 28, 2006)

Aye well, can see im banging my head against a brick wall here.

Holding still a tantrumming child is an ENTIRELY different thing. You are preventing the child from hurting himself or anyone else.

Pinning down a dog and staring in its face is an incredibly offensive and aggressive thing to do, its a threat and a challenge. Totally different.

Who mentioned Cesar Milan? I wasnt aware of him until just now, however ive just watched some DELIGHTFUL clips of him terrifying and bullying dogs, dogs being yanked on prong collars and all manner of other disgusting ways to treat an animal.

I know someone who thought this method was GREAT. She used it on her collies all the time, and they all 'respected her'... of course she expected collies to cower and roll their eyes at her (ooh much lik the dogs on mr milans show)..

She got a terrier for ratting. She did the same thing. Only the terrier wasnt so keen, he didnt cow away from her owner, she got fiestier and fiestier. Then the owner noticed whenever she was bending over the dog, to pet it, or to pick up the ball, the dog would snarl.
So she alpha rolled it some more.

And then a guest came round, a young lad around 12, son of a friend. He went to pet the dog, and the dog damn near took his face off.

This dog displayed NO behavioural problems when she got it, she alpha rolled him for normal dog behaviour, play biting, annoying the adult dogs, all things pups do.

But she taught him that humans bending over was a threat, to expect to be challenged and pinned down and threatened.

So when someone with slightly less authority did it, he fought back with the only thing he had, his teeth.
He was shot.

I have lurked here for a few days, i do not know Gundogs, although i am in the UK, we actually don't all know one another!

I have had Chi's for 7 yaers, and i have NEVER had to resort to pinning them down and staring at them to make them submit, to teach them anything.

So hey, stick your heads in the sand, tra la la, carry on abusing your dogs mentally, or yanno, you could say 'hey, i can try something new' and give it up and quit abusing and bullying TINY dogs. There is no need for it, none at all, its just brute force and ignorance in exactly the same way as using prongs, chokes, e-collars and the rest!

TF


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

By the way Elvis, as if on cue, just had a small "issue". I picked him up and put him on my lap on his back and now he's sleeping and smiling ... cruel eh? I didn't raise my voice I wasn't mean... I picked him up... layed him down and talked to him calmly until he calmed. Then I petted him til he fell asleep.


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

Are you a dog then Gundogs or tinyfeet, which ever you prefer.Id like to beable to say if you were a dog you were a smart one but I cannot say that. I don't see your problem. Do you just want us all to agree and say your right when we are the ones who have chi's and you do not

Elvis and Jessiegirl Zola likes to have his belly tickled to so looks like I can join the dog abusing club


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

If my pup is "terrified" of me because I held him... well hmmmmm. I guess I don't ever have to touch him. Yeah, that's it. I'll lock him outdoors and ignore him *nods* 


FYI this happens when he comes up, cuddles up with me or skin people and then falls asleep and when we breathe or move he would attack us and bite us. He drew blood on several occasions. Five times or more a night. 

Should I have euthanized him instead? You have better ideas? I can bet we have all tried them all already. 

You make it sound like I'm holding him down and crushing him. I'm making him lay quietly and although he doesn't like it at first, he's certainly not scared.


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## tinyfeet (Jan 28, 2006)

Obviously, im a dog that can read and type...

If you wanna go down that road, are YOU, can you say without a shadow of a doubt, BEING adog, that alpha rolling is pleasant and fun and makes you want to trust your owner?

Nope you cant because you arent a dog.

I have chi's, i currently only have one, have had three chi's , two oldies and now a pup.

I have had years of dog experience and still have four other dogs, of very different breeds, and im pretty sure these days i know what im talking about.

TF


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## kelchi (Dec 23, 2005)

just been reading another post on this forum about agressiveness and i noticed gundogs has a say there too.
i wonder did you join to lecture and start arguements or do you want to contribute and discuss CHIHUAHUA related problems?
or are you on some kind of mission to prove 'your way' is the only way?


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## tinyfeet (Jan 28, 2006)

I came to discuss Chi's with other like minded people, however i came across this thread and am rapidly realising you people are not like minded at all.

I have no problem discussing other methods, new ways around old problems etc, i DO have an issue with people using bullying, fear tactics on their dogs!

TF


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

So you have to register twice to try and win your one debate? Why is this?

I like the way you have now actually had the nerve to call us dog abusers

**So hey, stick your heads in the sand, tra la la, carry on abusing your dogs mentally, or yanno, you could say 'hey, i can try something new' and give it up and quit abusing and bullying TINY dogs. There is no need for it, none at all, its just brute force and ignorance in exactly the same way as using prongs, chokes, e-collars and the rest! **

Call yourself a dog trainer, I'm glad I never hired you. My dog would be running riot on me wanting treats all the time and for what, biting me. Well done doggie. 
Oh and you say to ignore bad behavour and reward good. Ignoreing bad behavour sounds like a 'GREAT' idea doesnt it.


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## kelchi (Dec 23, 2005)

perhaps all these new, hotheaded members need a bit of training themselves...
how ironic this thread is about dealing with agression :lol:


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## Freddiesmom (Nov 29, 2005)

well said paint my world


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

It's odd how you just joined... your only 5 posts are inside this thread. Seems like you are just trying to start problems, but hey, that is just my opinion.


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## Gundogs (Jan 20, 2006)

tsk ask the board owner to check my IP address - we are not the same person just because we have similar opinions - do I think you are all the same person because you all treat your dogs the same way ?!

I joined this forum because I am getting a chihuahua next week - a rescue - and I was interested to read about your dogs....

I am not hotheaded, I am very calm believe me - you don't get anywhere working with dogs every day unless you are calm and relaxed.


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

I have a friend who ignored her kids bad behavior and now they're in jail


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

Bingo! I thought I just SAID that ... calm and assertive... if you don't have that you don't have control of any situation.


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

Oh so you went from not having a chi to having one. Congrats on getting your chi today then. I was not the one that made statements as if I were a dog. Getting held lightly on your back and told no is not meant to be fun, did you forget what this post was about? Do you not think if a chi felt that threated lying on there back they would really bite to defend themselves, I mean especially if they think we're gonna 'Kill' them. I know a chi can do allot more damage than some humans can if they thought they were in a life threatening posistion. You dont have to own a chi to know this


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## Gundogs (Jan 20, 2006)

Blue Velvet Elvis said:


> Bingo! I thought I just SAID that ... calm and assertive... if you don't have that you don't have control of any situation.


yes but you don't have to be physically dominant that's my point.  and you certainly don't have to use methods that are painful for the dog, like choke chains, and prong collars like that Cesar Milan guy does in every single programme.


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## tinyfeet (Jan 28, 2006)

Where did i say i dont have a chi?

TF


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

Elvis isn't bullied... he's the bully. He may be four pounds but he thinks he's the size of King Kong. I suppose I could lay there in bed and allow him to bite my face, but it rather hurts. Additionally as an insurance agent I know that if a stranger was bitten even by a chihuahua, I could get my homeowners policy non renewed. 

I use the same method I used when my boys, the demon cherubs were toddlers. I held them tight until they calmed down. I had to sometimes get on the floor with them though. I wasn't always calm and collected then though. With age comes wisdom. 

BTW I didn't have choke chains or prong collars for my boys (skin) then either :wink: 

Laying a tiny dog on it's back until a tantrum is over isn't really all that much different than with a toddler.


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

O.k. everyone chill out for a sec and take a breather  . I realize that tension can run high with difference of opinion but just try to keep it calm when bringing your points across. Thank you.


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

You know what girls why even give this gundogs and tinyfeet the satisfaction it is as if they have joined the board to throw out insults, as demonstared clearly in this post. Anyone who knows me and my chi know that he is the most important thing in my life. Even people who I have spoken to on the board know. I know you Elvis and Jessiegirl probably feel the same way. I find it very offensive to have some new 'dog trainer' come on this board and law down the law and tell us how to treat are dogs and call us cruel. We know the truth and wont let this board go to shit because of people like this

Love you girls  and I love all you chi's to. Even you little bad ones than get lightly flipped on there backs :lol:


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

I'm on page 3 so far, so I haven't read the whole thing yet. :wink: But let me catch up and I'll make another comment.


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## tinyfeet (Jan 28, 2006)

Oh well, theres non so blind as cannot see, as the saying goes.

Hope you never have to deal with a dog so messed up in the head by being bullied by its owner that it has to be put down.

Oh yes, but you all have Chi's who lets face it, are never going to be able to fight back the way a bigger dog can.

Please delete my account, i came here to exchange ideas, i admit getting into a debate is not the done thing for a new poster, but hey, im passionate about my dogs and im passionate about treating them right.

TF


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## Gundogs (Jan 20, 2006)

Good grief  I really do give up.


> Even you little bad ones than get lightly flipped on there backs


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

I'm not mad or offended. I'm appalled I can't convey what I'm actually to calm Elvis better. I believe that the interpetation the new posters have is far from the actuality of what is actually happening. 

I'm in sales... the best correlation I can make is that I'm closing him. He doesn't want to hear it, he might even object, but in the long run he sees my point and buys into because the product (or service) is superior to what he just experienced.


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## myparentskid (Dec 27, 2005)

Don't worry gundogs... this group is like a click most of the time... and their opinion is the only one that is correct... and if yours is different then you are WRONG!!! I found that out the first time I came on here and got attacked because I don't agree with them on their choice of dog food... but I had better not bring that can of worms up or they'll chew my head off again.... just wanted to let you know that you are not the only one that they attack...


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

After reading the whole thread I think the point that needs to be made the most is, what works for one chihuahua might not work for every chihuahua. They are special dogs that are different in personality from any dog I have encountered. :wink: 

I have heard that the flipping on the back was a useful tool and I have also heard recently that it is not. I actually used the method myself on one of my boys and it really worked wonders on him. He was not scared of me when I did that, he is not scared of me now. He never has cowered down to me in fright, NEVER. 

I'm not saying that I agree with the use of it either way, because like I said I had a positive experience with it myself, but I have honestly heard of incidents where things have turned negative from using it.


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

myparentskid said:


> Don't worry gundogs... this group is like a click most of the time... and their opinion is the only one that is correct... and if yours is different then you are WRONG!!! I found that out the first time I came on here and got attacked because I don't agree with them on their choice of dog food... but I had better not bring that can of worms up or they'll chew my head off again.... just wanted to let you know that you are not the only one that they attack...


I'm sorry that you felt so attacked here  . Everyone feels passionately about their dogs and things can get heated sometimes. I personally don't feel any one opinion is right in any subject and I also believe alot of the members here feel that way as well.


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

I think everyone is entitled to there own opnion also but to call us cruel and say this is abuseing our dogs? This gundogs person does not know us or our dogs personally. He can disagree with the method and I would have no problem with that but to throw out an insult like that and say that freddiesmom should possible think about returning her chi to it's breeder? Really who is this helping. All the girl asked for was advice.


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

I cannot comment on myparentskid as I did not read whatever post they are talking about but to come in and say we are attacking her aswell. If anyone is attacking I think we know how it is

In what way have we offended gundog? In what way have they offended us.. Telling us we are curel and abusive to our dogs that what. It's sickening really


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

tinyfeet said:


> This dog displayed NO behavioural problems when she got it, she alpha rolled him for normal dog behaviour, play biting, annoying the adult dogs, all things pups do.
> 
> But she taught him that humans bending over was a threat, to expect to be challenged and pinned down and threatened.


Then we're compaing apples and grapefruits. Elvis like the other pups had a serious issue with dominance aggression from the day they were born. The breeders website that talked about MY pup said "It's his way or the highway...boys will be boys". He came like this.


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

Vicky you are right. I'm sorry I can't do more about it but I am only a moderator and I am here to try and sort things, whether I agree with any party or not. I'm going to bring this to the attention of all the other mods and see what we all think as a whole. :wink:


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

paint my world said:


> I cannot comment on myparentskid as I did not read whatever post they are talking about but to come in and say we are attacking her aswell. If anyone is attacking I think we know how it is
> 
> In what way have we offended gundog? In what way have they offended


The only "attacking" I have/had issue with was Elvis vs my face. *shrug* I guess I've not been around to be part of a clique... and even places I've been around a long time online I'm not part of one. 

Maybe we should all join hands and paws and sing kum ba ya now?


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

Sounds good to me.


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## paint my world (Jan 26, 2005)

Kari I totally understand your position and I respect you as a mod. Im not even gonna post on this thread again because its really not worth it. And I know it doesnt exaclty make your job very nice wheni ts like this
Like I said before I know I dont abuse my dog and I know Elvis and everyone else here don't abuse there dogs and as long as I know that nothing else matters. Oh and as for freddiesmom I have her on my msn list now and am trying to help her with her problem seen as that is what all this thread was meant to be for in the first place. 

:wave:


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

You're exactly right again Vicky, she came for advice and that is what she needs. :wink:


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

in note to my previous post, i hope in the friction it wasnt seen as one of those my way or the highway posts...
im a trainer yes, but i also belive every dog is different, I was more trying to make a little point to gundogs that we cannot "SEE" the problem therefore a one on one training session would be the best bet, i wasnt TELLING you get a trainer or ill beat you :lol: 
i was also telling of my experience with alpha rolling. (infact never a bad one and ive NEVER had a single dog cowere from me for rolling it...) infact my male chi whome ive rolled only twice, coweres to eeryone BUT me! (so yeah i guess me rolling him is petrifying him :roll: 

but EVERYONE has different methods and preferneces like with anything else form food to favorite potty pads there are differences in opinion there always will be and anyone that thinks there geting bashed because their opinion is different and people try to explain why they belive there wya is better...well i guess those people never took constructive critisim well...

and when i do personal training i ALWAYS talk wiht the person first finding out what THEY are comfortable with
sometimes just ignoring the bad behaviour doesnt work...just like people someitmes dogs need a time out...and sometimes that time our has to be one in which they are restricted, unlike a child however they do not understand "youve been bad go to your room!"
positive reinforcment is a WONDERFULL thing, i agree, the dog does something good, give them a treat, give them lov, whatever they think is a positive thing let them have it...but when ignoring the behaviour leads them to belive that its ok to do...then theres the problem.

as time changes so will methods, there are MANY cases i will not use alpha rolling with, and i only use rolling (which i must point out is a roll not a pick up and put on the back!) when its needed, and this is only when i have an EXTREEMLY dominant dog whos not responding to nay kind of command because lets face it...thy dont think your the boss, why would they listen to you...

let us know what the trainer suggests, and keep us updated, in the end them and your personal thoughts are all that matters, 

gundogs, im sorry but suggesting that she return her 13 week puppy because its too much to handle is ridiculous. at 13 weeks old theres plenty of learning time, unfortunatly she obviously picked up the tough pup from the litter, every litter has one...but NO dog is beyond help, ive seen extreemly agressive dogs turn around and find a loving home just from the correct training, and patients from people.

ive never seen the dog whisperer ive heard wonderfull things about the show but i agree, choke chains and prong collars are no way to show a dog whats expected of them. however like anything on tv, you take what you NEED from shows, its somehting called common sence.

now i sugest this thread be cooled down a little, everyone take a deep breath, seems like theres some people here ready to explode. its agrivating, especially when all you want is a little help.
Im hoping things change for you and your baby,  your doing the right thing, one day at a time.
and dont listen to anyone telling you your a bad chi mommy, you came here for advice and some of it it seems your looking into, and that is a GOOD puppy mum, too many poeple just give in too soon. GOOD LUCK, keep us updated ok?!


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

I completely agree


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

Myparentskid is just mad that I told them that IAMS isn't a high quality food... they think that IAMS is high quality, and one of the best's. I told them that it isn't... and they won't keep an open mind about food.


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

A 13 week puppy is VERY young... a lot of breeders won't let puppies go to new homes until they are 12 weeks old. Anyway, "it's never too late to teach an old dog new tricks" :wink: 

As for IP addresses, I know that everytime I open my browser, I get a new IP address. It is very possible for someone to make 2 accounts from different IP addresses.


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## myparentskid (Dec 27, 2005)

no, jessie, i accept you for what you are. narrow minded.. it is too bad that common sense has decided not to bless you with it's grace. but that is ok because you are the ring leader of the narrow minded people on this board... and yes, you know that is true, and nothing you could ever say would ever change my mind. I am sorry that people who actually know what they are talking about waste their time helping people on this board, because the narrow minded people obviously know much more than any other person in the world and are god... and all of us lesser people must respect that....


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

myparentskid said:


> no, jessie, i accept you for what you are. narrow minded.. it is too bad that common sense has decided not to bless you with it's grace. but that is ok because you are the ring leader of the narrow minded people on this board... and yes, you know that is true, and nothing you could ever say would ever change my mind. I am sorry that people who actually know what they are talking about waste their time helping people on this board, because the narrow minded people obviously know much more than any other person in the world and are god... and all of us lesser people must respect that....


Right... that made a whole lot of sense. I am narrow minded because someone asked if Purina was a good dog food; I answered them by saying that no, it wasn't. I listed some good quality foods. Then you came into the post and started arguing with me (when I did NOTHING to you). You said that IAMS is a good quality food... I listed the ingredients. You said some really rude things to me, when I was very nice to you in the first place.

If caring about the health of your dog is being narrow minded, then sue me. I just know the facts, and those are that IAMS is a low quality dog food. You are very narrow minded by not accepting other peoples opinions on your "godly food." 

I am actually very open minded... I love reading about other peoples' opinions, and if there is advice that I can give to help the health of peoples' dogs, I will give it. I'm sorry that you feel the need to continuously put me down for voicing my opinion and giving facts. When someone asks for advice (i.e. asking if Purina is good) I am obviously going to say that "no, it isn't."


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## myparentskid (Dec 27, 2005)

whatever you say o queen... lol and it wasn't purina, it was science diet.. get your facts straight... lol and yes, you are very narrow minded o queen... ROFLMAO LOL LOL LOL :lol:


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

myparentskid said:


> whatever you say o queen... lol and it wasn't purina, it was science diet.. get your facts straight... lol and yes, you are very narrow minded o queen... ROFLMAO LOL LOL LOL :lol:


You were in another thread about Purina. Sorry, IAMS, Purina, Science Diet... they are all the same to me!

Aren't you a little old to be acting so immature? Aren't you a married adult? Please act like it :wave:


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## myparentskid (Dec 27, 2005)

Right.. it is much more mature to rip people apart because they have a different opinion than you do o queen... ROFLMAO!!!!!!!! :lol: you crack me up... you are one to be talking mature... you seek out any message that I post in to attack me... and you're accusing me of being immature... you should only know the meaning of the word before you go and use it... LOL!!! :lol: Thanks for the great laugh... I certainly needed it... gosh you sure are funny!!! :lol:


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

myparentskid said:


> Right.. it is much more mature to rip people apart because they have a different opinion than you do o queen... ROFLMAO!!!!!!!! :lol: you crack me up... you are one to be talking mature... you seek out any message that I post in to attack me... and you're accusing me of being immature... you should only know the meaning of the word before you go and use it... LOL!!! :lol: Thanks for the great laugh... I certainly needed it... gosh you sure are funny!!! :lol:


Ummm... you have 52 posts... about 15 of those were in that dogfood thread. I post in almost EVERY thread... seriously, go look. I'm in a lot of people's threads. 

Sorry that I don't want your dog to live an unhealthy life with poor nutrition. I am a horrible person, eh? I know that a few people either PM'd me to say 'thank you' about the nutrition advice, or they posted in that thread. I think the majority of the dog-educated world agrees that IAMS isn't good... that is not a matter of opinion; it's a matter of FACT.

I am not posting in this thread anymore to you, because it's not worth my time. I am obviously more mature than you:



> o queen... ROFLMAO!!!!!!!! :lol:


You know, there are more mature ways to hold a conversation. I am sure that I am at least 5 or 10 years younger than you, and I am not putting you down or writing "ROFLMAO" every post. 

Have a great night, and go bother someone else. And oh yeah, you came into this post harassing me (yet, you're accusing me of going onto your posts to bother you).


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

Ooops, double posted.


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## my3angels (Apr 15, 2004)

Jessie please dont let this person get to you again. Just ignore them. You tried helping and they are ignoring your information. I remember I was right there with you...this member danced around my questions and just kept saying I was harrassing them and being closed minded. The member still never commented on the whole IAMS animal cruelty cases...one of many topics they avoided.

You know this member is just going to disagree with whatever you say so its best to just ignore them

BTW my girls are doing great on the Inova dog food!! My vet also feeds Inova but suggested the silver bag...not the green. Was meaning to ask you what the difference was.


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

That is great to hear that your girls are doing great  

The silver bag is Innova Evo... it is high protein, and better for dogs with health problems, and great for getting large breed dogs to gain weight. Your dogs had knee problems, right? They probably would do best on the Evo... you just have to watch their weight while they are on it. 

I know of a couple of people who have their healthy chis on the Evo, but it is normally for dogs with health problems, large breed dogs, and very active dogs.


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

:nike: 

This is off topic and completely out of hand...


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## rach (Jan 12, 2006)

:dontknow: 
I was saying only the other day, to my husband how much i like this site, as even though we might have different opionins there's no nasty backbiting...oops.
Jessie you seem like you know your stuff please just ignore nasty,immature comments.
I dont want to get into an argument as I've got better things to do.
I'm going to be scared next time i post a question now incase i get my head bitten off :?


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## KB (Apr 13, 2004)

uuggghhh this will be locked if the bickering continues..................BE RESPECTFUL when addressing each other...........THANK YOU :? 

and I have seen w.tf being used, stop it we all know what it means - and its not approriate language here - Thanks


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## dlambertz (Nov 13, 2005)

KB said:


> uuggghhh this will be locked if the bickering continues..................BE RESPECTFUL when addressing each other...........THANK YOU :?
> 
> and I have seen wtf being used, stop it we all know what it means - and its not approriate language here - Thanks


thank you! i am enjoying reading on this site and my daughter spends a lot of time reading over my shoulder....even though she might know what some things mean she doesn't know them all...than i get the question.


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## KB (Apr 13, 2004)

dlambertz said:


> and my daughter spends a lot of time reading over my shoulder....even though she might know what some things mean she doesn't know them all...than i get the question.


 EXACTLY my point-I am sorry that happened


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## dlambertz (Nov 13, 2005)

[quote="KB EXACTLY my point-I am sorry that happened [/quote]

no apologies needed. i have only belonged to this forum a short time and i would like to thank you and all the mods who keep this a place my little girl can read and learn about her chi. at some point i would like her to be able to let her ask her own questions and make her own friends on a place like this but i am afraid of letting the wolves get her


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

i would like to know why all of a sudden this post from someone seriously looking for individuals opinions on how to help her dog with his agression issues suddenly becomes the portal to one very immature conversations...

no offance but "o queen" yeah i dont think you have much room to say immature on this one. SRY!

as ive said before opinions are opinions. take a step back and a breath...
does ANYONE have any opinions on the ORIGIONAL issue this topic was started for, and by opinions i mean just that, dont lecture, offer advice, and accept that everyone has different opinions, no argueing about barbaric and arcaeic practices, but instead steady constructive opinions and accept that everyones opinions and advice is going to be different...
if this thread is going to continue on as one of those Everyones picking on my posts id suggest closing it...

Im just glad im not a mod, cause id be going nutz by now lol.


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

:lol: I wouldn't say that we are going nuts at this point, but it can be frustrating when arguements keep arising. I'm going to lock this now, I hope you all understand. :wave:


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