# Merle Mongrels???



## babydoll (May 18, 2006)

I just found this article on the chihuahua club website from where i live, it was under "merle mongrels".

This is just part of it because its a pretty long article so the rest of it is here
http://www.istnet.net.au/~wachiclub/MerleMongrels.htm

I had no idea that this was the opinion. Does anyone think/know if this is correct?? You cant register merles here but can you elsewhere? 


MERLE SMALL DOGS IN AUSTRALIA? by Dr Leith Bungey

"Genetics, whether of the dog or **** sapiens, is never a simple subject that can be simply explained." (Onstott 1978;ix)

Even a cursory examination of the substantial body of research reported in the literature would indicate, however, that the decision to not introduce the merle modifier into the chihuahua gene pool in Australia was a simple one. That is, merle small dogs are not purebred chihuahuas, they are cross-breeds, mongrels, and cannot be registered with the state canine associations.


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## lecohen (Feb 13, 2005)

That sounds weird! After all chis are accepted in all colours by the standards???


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## littleone (Apr 22, 2006)

The UK is trying to ban Merles as they ruin the breed!

I cant say which countries where they are banned, I would have to look in to that! I know countries like Sweden and Norway are trying to ban it as well!

Hopefully the ban will be in place soon..... I dont want a deaf, blind or in any other way a dog that isnt well!


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## Tucker-N-Jasper (Aug 6, 2005)

For as much "research" as is out there against "mongrel merles" (please!) there is just as much to refute negative information. ALL animals have health risks. NOT all merles. There is selective/safe breeding protocol for all health issues (think of the blue-hairloss issue, they're not mongrels are they?.. nope just a chihuahua with a health issue.) Same for merles.. you breed according to safe/healthy practices for that particular color pattern and you don't get a "deaf, blind, or anyother way" dog. Merle banning is a run by a strong campaign of loud voices. Doesn't mean there is any truth to their claims. 
And, in the US they ARE accepted and are registered as PURE chihuahua. 

Proud owner of AKC merle chihuahua


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## littleone (Apr 22, 2006)

Tucker-N-Jasper said:


> For as much "research" as is out there against "mongrel merles" (please!) there is just as much to refute negative information. ALL animals have health risks. NOT all merles. There is selective/safe breeding protocol for all health issues (think of the blue-hairloss issue, they're not mongrels are they?.. nope just a chihuahua with a health issue.) Same for merles.. you breed according to safe/healthy practices for that particular color pattern and you don't get a "deaf, blind, or anyother way" dog. Merle banning is a run by a strong campaign of loud voices. Doesn't mean there is any truth to their claims.
> And, in the US they ARE accepted and are registered as PURE chihuahua.
> 
> Proud owner of AKC merle chihuahua


I dont care what you do in the US! I just hope to god it gets banned here! ANd so far we havent got alot of Merles! YOu can say what you want! They are prone to deafness, blindness and other defects! Its a fact! And because you cant always se its a Merle and maybe breed it with another non visable Merle you could end up with puppies who are "faulty" that then spread it around!

Why anyone would want that is beyound me! Im glad they are run by a group of loud voices. Its funny coz ask any breeder here and they wouldnt touch a Merle with a barge pole! That must say something!

I have nothing agaisnt the ones that live now just dont breed anymore!

Have you never seen the faults with a merle? Where the eyes and so on is missing???? Its disturbing!


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

Calm yourself, littleone... sheesh! It isn't necessary to use 80 explanation marks 

Like Brenda said, there is a TON of research out there backing merles up. You run into problems when you breed merle to merle. You can run into problems breeding ANY color.

The AKC accepts merle as a pattern... and I am the proud owner of one 

lol, you don't care what we do in the US? Do you realize how many US members are on here?

Have you ever seen the hairloss than can occur in fawn colored dogs? The defects that puppies can have when they are born to mothers without getting proper nutrition? Give me a break


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## littleone (Apr 22, 2006)

~Jessie~ said:


> Calm yourself, littleone... sheesh! It isn't necessary to use 80 explanation marks
> 
> Like Brenda said, there is a TON of research out there backing merles up. You run into problems when you breed merle to merle. You can run into problems breeding ANY color.
> 
> ...


Sorry about the !!!

And no I dont care what you do over there! Not one bit! Just keep it there! Does it matter how many US members there are?

And we dont have all the breed problems you have, no where near..... And what has nutrition to do with gene faults? One is food and it can be resolved one is in the genes and can ruin the breed for a long time, so not really a good metafore (sp) there......


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## Tucker-N-Jasper (Aug 6, 2005)

It's ok. Everyone has their own opinion. And, since I'm "over there" I do care what we do.. and I'm happy we accept merle without condemning them. Again, there are plenty of other breeding issues with genetic factors to worry about but we certainly aren't banning blue dogs nor dogs who have bad knees... you avoid breeding the troublesome areas.. just as with anything else. I'm glad you live where you do since the current rules are pleasing to you.. just as they are to me here. 

And yes, I've seen the results of poor breeding. But again, merle defects are not the only defects that come with irresponsible breeding. If merles were more accepted they would be "claimed" more often and then the likelihood of one showing up (without visible pattern) would be less. As it is, many are miss identified either because the merle pattern wasn't offered, or the dog was registered after it faded and not the owner not informed.. or the lack of knowledge what the color pattern looked like to begin with.


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## *Tiffany* (Sep 27, 2005)

i love merles!   especially chloe and jasper


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## AEROMarley1983 (Sep 12, 2005)

I like merles too. Jasper and Chloe are soooo cute!


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## Krista (Dec 29, 2005)

littleone said:


> I dont care what you do in the US! I just hope to god it gets banned here! ANd so far we havent got alot of Merles! YOu can say what you want! They are prone to deafness, blindness and other defects! Its a fact! And because you cant always se its a Merle and maybe breed it with another non visable Merle you could end up with puppies who are "faulty" that then spread it around!
> 
> Why anyone would want that is beyound me! Im glad they are run by a group of loud voices. Its funny coz ask any breeder here and they wouldnt touch a Merle with a barge pole! That must say something!
> 
> ...


Wow ... maybe you should ban white chis as well, because they are prone to all the same things  FACT is, ANY chi can have these problems, but if you're a good breeder and know genetics you won't have a problem. You've had quite the attitude today ... first harassing someone who's poor chi is dying and now this =/ .... Now, my dear, THAT is distrubing


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## babydoll (May 18, 2006)

I too love merles. I think they are gorgeous. I'd love one but ive got no chance of finding one here. I didnt even know that they werent considered purebred! And I guess if breeders follow proper breeding practices (not breeding merles with merles etc) then theres not really a problem right??


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## Krista (Dec 29, 2005)

They are considered purebred, and you're right, if they know how to breed there isn't a problem ^_^


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## RoxyGirl (Feb 16, 2006)

I love merles (and tans and blacks and whites and tri colored....) I love Chi's. I am glad that I live 'over here'.


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## CM Katie (Sep 28, 2005)

Glad I live "over here" too.

Might as well ban pugs since they're prone to breathing problems...

Psst, don't forget about Captain Jack Sparrow!! (owned my "I love my cheese")


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## Gracie'smom (Jan 7, 2006)

While you're banning better add Labrador's...they are prone to hip displaysia. And Doxies are prone to spinal problems.........


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## Kari (May 13, 2004)

Good points. :thumbright: I think all breeds are prone to having some problems. I love the merles though, they are so beautiful. I would hate to see them banned.


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## Katie (Apr 9, 2005)

I love my blind Mongrel :lol: I am not into drama at all but I just wanted to say that there are 2 sides to everything. Being ignorant and not taking into consideration the other side is just sad in my opinion. I've seen pure bred chis born limbless plenty of times. Unfortunately Jack was badly bred by an irresponsible breeder but that certainly does not mean he isn't purebred or that every merle is unhealthy. Merles won't be going anywhere so it's nothing to worry about :wave:


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

Seriously, every breed can have problems. I am so glad that merles are accepted here. I love my Chloe


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## Tucker-N-Jasper (Aug 6, 2005)

There's a book, I have to get the name of it again.. that refers to "splashed" chis during the 1920's. Generally that term was reserved for merles.. they've been around quite a while as I've said... mis-identified. I'll have to dig out that book again.


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## Ory&C (Mar 20, 2005)

I can't say I've ever seen a Blue Merle Chi myself as we don't have them here in Europe, but the colour just somehow doesn't go with me. Nothing wrong with them I guess, I simply don't like the colour  . FCI doesn't mention Merles at all, so I can't say whether you'll be able to register them or not, but I know that blue eyed ones wouldn't be accepted because the standard states and I quote: "*Eyes*: Large, roundish in shape, very expressive, not protruding, perfectly dark. Light eyes permissible, but not desired. "


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

I have to say with the merle thing I have read a lot of bad press about them and I'm all for preserving the to standard chihuahua BUT I think a lot of research still needs to be done with them and I think the colour in the right hands with the right breeders could easily be permissable and welcomed into the chi rainbow, I just think a lot of care needs to be taken when breeding them and only the best quality dogs should be used after all I am starting to see apple head merles emerge now and if they do start breeding them to look to standard after a few generations if it's found that the health problems can be controlled why the hell not give the colour a chance and see what happens, and this is coming from me lol I used to be against merles but I dont see why we should be. It's more about WHO is breeding them rather than the dogs themselves.

btw stealing that quote from you christina it says "permisable" which means any eye colour is allowed just lighter colours arent desired and can act as a fault in the show ring, it's the same with how light coloured noses are frowned upon in some colours and classed as a fault but they are permissable if the dog overal is to good type.


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## Ory&C (Mar 20, 2005)

> btw stealing that quote from you christina it says "permisable" which means any eye colour is allowed just lighter colours arent desired and can act as a fault in the show ring, it's the same with how light coloured noses are frowned upon in some colours and classed as a fault but they are permissable if the dog overal is to good type.


From what I could understand by light colours they meant light brown not blue. Usually when FCI standard talks about blue colour they mention it like separately..... like with Australian Shepherds it says "*EYES* - Are brown, blue, amber or any variation or combination thereof, including flecks and marbling. "


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

very true but unless they actually put "blue" as a fault people will always argue it can be classed as light eyes, same with in the KC standard it says light eyes permissable in light colours but thats all it says, then again as it's been said they are thinking of revising the standard one thing they will put in are that blue eyes arent permissable "if" they carry out the merle ban. The problem with breed standards are they are largely worded ambiguously so people will always argue the "but" point. So till they put it in writing no blue then people will say it fits the standard.


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## Tucker-N-Jasper (Aug 6, 2005)

Sarah, I like how you worded your point of view about merles. That is exactly what I was trying to point out. Thank you for stating it more clearly.


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