# Is it a Chihuahua? Or isn't it?



## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

There are so many crossbreed Chihuahuas on the market and many Chihuahuas being bred that don't "fit" the standard...It can sometimes be difficult to tell if you are looking at a Chihuahua or not !!!

Last week I Was out with my sister and niece when one of them said "Oh look there's a Chihuahua!"
Of course I was all eyes 

And yes, there it was...or was it!

"Nope it's a Papillon." I said. Had another look and decided it was in fact a Chihuahua, as it was really quite small, but fully coated.
As it drew closer, I just gave up and feigned ignorance and asked owner what it was as they had stopped close by.
And yes, it was a Papillon...or supposed to be, but even they had their doubts apparently. So didn't feel so bad. Lovely dog anyway 

We also have a "Chihuahua" smooth coat nearby. Owners are convinced it's pure bred, but if it hasn't got Jack Russell in it, I'll be very surprised 

I know there has always been some diversity within the Chihuahua breed, but here in the UK, it is increasing at an alarming rate :nshocked1:

Barbara x


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

I've seen one website of a breeder who just breeds 'Chions' the hybreed of chihuahua and Papillon also Chorkie's are quite popular too but the jack russle cross chi does seem to be extremely popular the moment I'm not sure why. They are quite cute maybe it's just people wanting a tiny dog but think the jack russle's a less 'girly' dog than the chihuahua or also they're about a third of the price of a pedigree chi.

At the end of the day the cross's are never going to affect the breed standard as pedigree unless people start falsifying papers and they'll never be in shows as pedigree's either but if that's the pet a person wants then I see no harm, it gives more diversity to the genes so it's not bad for the dogs health. Our vet said there are a few issues with chihuahua's but the sheltie in him'll sort that out so you shouldn't have anything hireditry to worry about but that he will still have too many teeth for his mouth but all small dogs are prone to that and getting steped on is also is common issue.

Ironicly if anyone makes a guess as to Loki's breed they say Pom not either sheltie or chi. If anybody asks what breed he is (and they very often do of course) I just say what's in my signiture, he's a sheltie x chihuahua.

We're looking for a Papillon at the moment or a chion would be fine also, I just want a perfect pretty little girl but my idea of perfect and pretty is just my own personal preference it doesn't have to follow any standard to be our perfect pretty little girl.

With people it might be different I know a guy who's Dad's black and his Mum's white and he's white with black features and an afro so he says he's black (he's as white as me though lol) But with dogs the standardised breeds are recognised and excepted and most owners of a cross will happily call it such.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Jetta said:


> it gives more diversity to the genes so it's not bad for the dogs health. Our vet said there are a few issues with chihuahua's but the sheltie in him'll sort that out so you shouldn't have anything hireditry to worry about but that he will still have too many teeth for his mouth but all small dogs are prone to that and getting steped on is also is common issue.


Your vet actually told you that?

Unfortunately the Shetland Sheepdog is not without it's own quite considerable hereditary problems, possibly more so even than the Chihuahua. So rather than correcting any health issues within the Chihuahua, it's more likely to add to them 

While (natural) mongrels have a large gene pool gathered over many, many generations. The crossbreeds we are seeeing have not, and the resulting puppies have a good chance of not only inheriting the health issues within one breed...but TWO!
Breeding one pedigree to another cannot negate health issues alas.

Shelties are known to have problems with eyes, blood clotting disorders, epilepsy, hips (dysplasia) and there may be more.

So while we would all like to think a cross Sheltie/Chi will inherit the best of both breeds, unfortunately they may actually inherit the worst 

I am sure a resposible and experienced breeder will confirm this.

To be honest this is one of the reasons cross breeding is considered very irresponsible by many. It's certainly not in the best interest of the dog.

These crosses are being bred by what most would consider back yard breeders. They just want to produce cute puppies that sell quickly (because they are cheap.)
As always it's the dogs that suffer...and the owners when the pup doesn't always turn out to be as robust as hoped.

Barbara x


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## carachi (Mar 20, 2005)

A Chihuahua = apple domed, up to 6 pounds, short snout, cobby body.

A guaranteed Chihuahua mix = anything else.

I know people say Chihuahuas come in a variety, which they do, but honestly...

How can this 









And this









be the same breed?



Jetta said:


> We're looking for a Papillon at the moment or a chion would be fine also,


How about you scrap the latter and go for a pedigree Pap? I don't know why you'd purposely want to look for backyard breeders and want to give them your money so they can fund an extra 345 litters from matings between closely related dogs and send shelter dogs to their doom.


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## carachi (Mar 20, 2005)

Rosiesmum said:


> Your vet actually told you that?
> 
> Unfortunately the Shetland Sheepdog is not without it's own quite considerable hereditary problems, possibly more so even than the Chihuahua. So rather than correcting any health issues within the Chihuahua, it's more likely to add to them
> 
> ...


Right you are! 

Vets know more than I do (a lot more, lol) but a lot of vets don't understand dog breeding. They know how to whelp a bitch, they know pre and post natal care to the bitch and how to successfully raise a litter but they don't get the whole breeding thing. They are not registered breeder who study this sort of thing.

Breeding a Sheltie to a Chihuahua is not going to fix anything, it's just going to introduce TWO lots of problems into your puppy. I'll bet my bottom dollar that Loki's parents weren't health tested before being bred. Therefore, you still better keep your eye open for any genetic diseases.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> Your vet actually told you that?
> 
> Unfortunately the Shetland Sheepdog is not without it's own quite considerable hereditary problems, possibly more so even than the Chihuahua. So rather than correcting any health issues within the Chihuahua, it's more likely to add to them
> 
> ...


The premise behind our vet saying this as he explained to us is because while different breeds carry some genetic faults unless a fault in present in the parent it will most likely just be a carried recessive gene that is faulty. Now say for example there are 30 common faulty recesive genes carried a seltie may be prone to carrying genes 345 and a Chi genese 22 23 and 24 thus whe two sheltie or two chi's are bred if there is a higher chance of both parents carrying the same faulty ecessive genes and hem presenting in a pup.

However if two quite different breeds are crossed from two very different genepools the chances of theme both carrying the same recessive faulty genes is much smaller.

Even in humans I could have a child with the same medical visual condition as myself but from the US and we would be very unlikely to have a child with the condition because it's caused by two identified and completely different faulty gene sequesces in the US to europe.

He even said he'd been to a seminar the very day before he saw him where a vet (also pedigree breeder) tried to say that pedigree's were healthier and he was met with a rumble of dissaproving mutters from all around the room.

Even my pet insurence which has a fixed cap of £500 pedigree or not for the amount paid out upon death regardless of purchase price is still cheaper for a cross than it is for a pedigree.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

They were both pedigree dogs and pets the mother was bred to a stud sable and white sheltie to breed pedigree shelties this was the last litter she had before retiering from breeding as a one off litter.

I would concider a pedigree or a cross but at the moment finding either is very difficult. I'll judge the breeder on their own merits when I get in touch but there aren't a couple hundred Papillon puppies about like there are chi's so I'm concidering all options with the help of a few breeders too.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

I think ultimately that people will believe what they choose to believe. I know my vet is against this type of back yard breeding and they say that they are seeing the sad results on their vet table 

Loki will be classed as mongrel, that is why his insurance is cheaper. Insurance companies only recognise pedigree or mongrel in my experience. Some breeds do have higher premiums.

Barbara x


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## carachi (Mar 20, 2005)

Jetta said:


> The premise behind our vet saying this as he explained to us is because while different breeds carry some genetic faults unless a fault in present in the parent it will most likely just be a carried recessive gene that is faulty. Now say for example there are 30 common faulty recesive genes carried a seltie may be prone to carrying genes 345 and a Chi genese 22 23 and 24 thus whe two sheltie or two chi's are bred if there is a higher chance of both parents carrying the same faulty ecessive genes and hem presenting in a pup.
> 
> However if two quite different breeds are crossed from two very different genepools the chances of theme both carrying the same recessive faulty genes is much smaller.
> 
> ...


Um, lol, wow, where to start. 

Were Loki's parents screened for any of the common issues in their breed? Probably not, therefore your argument is pointless because you have no proof that Loki's parents DIDN'T carry those genes. And since he probably came from a BYB looking to make some dough I'd say he is very likely to have these genes in his lines.

Pedigree dogs, if bred properly by real breeders who actually give a damn, will be healthy I guarantee you. Proper breeders will health test, temperament test, show and keep their dogs in good conditions. Not all breeders are like the ones on Pedigree dogs exposed, that was only showing 1 side of the story. 

I think the pet shop/puppy farm/backyard bred puppy vs. registered breeder pedigree dog debate has been done to death. Do some research and you'll change your mind.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> I think ultimately that people will believe what they choose to believe.


Indeed. I could not have put that better myself!


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Linipi Chihuahuas said:


> Um, lol, wow, where to start.
> 
> Were Loki's parents screened for any of the common issues in their breed? Probably not, therefore your argument is pointless because you have no proof that Loki's parents DIDN'T carry those genes. And since he probably came from a BYB looking to make some dough I'd say he is very likely to have these genes in his lines.
> 
> ...


I don't think you understood a word of what I wrote there, the gene faults each breed is prone to carrying are different you need two matching recessive gene faults to present a dominant fault and thus a medical condition. Oh never mind I explained it well enough the first time.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> I know my vet is against this type of back yard breeding and they say that they are seeing the sad results on their vet table.


Are we debating backyard breeding now or the merits of a cross? Many pedigree's are Backyard bred so it's a topic in it's self. Not all back yard breeders breed pedigree's not all cross's are back yard bred. Which topic is this from your first post I thought it was just cross breeds.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

I think ultimately the very best way to find a nice Chihuahua is to go via the Chihuahua Breed Club, or approach breeders who are members.
That way you will have a good chance of getting the puppy you hope for, avoid the back yarders and get a Chi that actually looks like one 

If you want to give a loving home to a small crossbreed/mongrel, then approaching a reputable rescue is wisest. Unfortunately the rescues are seeing more and more crosses coming through theor doors and that is sadly set to continue 

Back on topic 

The other day a guy and his wife were looking at the dogs and they explained they had a chihuahua at home. "He's bigger than that one" He said.

I thought he meant lil Rosie, but no he meant Jago!
He insisited their Chihuahua was twice his size!!!

Good heavens, Jago weighs about 8lb....do you really get 16lb Chihuahuas 

Barbara x


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> The other day a guy and his wife were looking at the dogs and they explained they had a chihuahua at home. "He's bigger than that one" He said.
> 
> I thought he meant lil Rosie, but no he meant Jago!
> He insisited their Chihuahua was twice his size!!!
> ...


Probably only it was terribly over weight otherwise heck no lol.

As for shelters through all our searching there's certainly an abundence of medium to big dogs in the shelters cross's or not it's the ones that eat more or can knock you down that are having the most difficulty being re-homed. Wasn't a small in dogsight in the last one we checked apart from a westie who had to be re-homed together with his much much bigger best buddy.


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## Ciarra (May 6, 2008)

Idk Where the fault lies, the media, people or everyone. But some people are just out to make a quick buck and they will tell you whatever you want so you will buy the puppy and go away. I usually bought all my chis from the same breeder, a retired show breeder, but she never had a merles. I had been dying to get my hand on merle, well coming upon this breeders website it looked top notch. But she also did have lots and lots of adult chihuahuas. That are used for breeding and once retired or not giving good looking puppies she gets rid of them. 

From Zero's picture he looked like a great looking chihuahua puppy. I messaged her to see if she still had him, since he would be 12 wks old. Well when I got him at 12wks old he was already over 3lbs. I asked her "How big you think, he will get?" "No more than 5lbs" She told me. He will be a year in August and is already 10lbs!!! Not only that but he is so much longer than any of my other chihuahuas and has longer snout and fat ankles. Sadly I feel like I was taking advantage of...I love Zero but I hate how I was promised a full chi when clearly he doesnt seem full chi at all! That is the last time I trust a breeder will out doing some backround work on them. Or Im just gonna stick with the breeders I know that arent lying to people and telling them their puppies are full when they arent.

Not only that I have emailed her on many occasion trying to get his papers and she wont respond....people make me sick.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Ciarra said:


> Idk Where the fault lies, the media, people or everyone. But some people are just out to make a quick buck and they will tell you whatever you want so you will buy the puppy and go away. I usually bought all my chis from the same breeder, a retired show breeder, but she never had a merles. I had been dying to get my hand on merle, well coming upon this breeders website it looked top notch. But she also did have lots and lots of adult chihuahuas. That are used for breeding and once retired or not giving good looking puppies she gets rid of them.
> 
> From Zero's picture he looked like a great looking chihuahua puppy. I messaged her to see if she still had him, since he would be 12 wks old. Well when I got him at 12wks old he was already over 3lbs. I asked her "How big you think, he will get?" "No more than 5lbs" She told me. He will be a year in August and is already 10lbs!!! Not only that but he is so much longer than any of my other chihuahuas and has longer snout and fat ankles. Sadly I feel like I was taking advantage of...I love Zero but I hate how I was promised a full chi when clearly he doesnt seem full chi at all! That is the last time I trust a breeder will out doing some backround work on them. Or Im just gonna stick with the breeders I know that arent lying to people and telling them their puppies are full when they arent.
> 
> Not only that I have emailed her on many occasion trying to get his papers and she wont respond....people make me sick.


Oh my that is so out of order I don't blame you for feeling a little bitter about the breeder there's no reason to lie about a puppy like that it's clearly just for money and dishonesty is no way to go about it.

I'm glad you love your little fella all the same but it is a shame you were miss-led like that.

If a puppy's a cross it should be honestly sold as a cross not fraudulantly sold as a pedigree.


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## Ciarra (May 6, 2008)

Jetta said:


> Oh my that is so out of order I don't blame you for feeling a little bitter about the breeder there's no reason to lie about a puppy like that it's clearly just for money and dishonesty is no way to go about it.
> 
> I'm glad you love your little fella all the same but it is a shame you were miss-led like that.
> 
> If a puppy's a cross it should be honestly sold as a cross not fraudulantly sold as a pedigree.


I agree I have 2 crosses and the breeder was very upfront about them being crosses. I usually dont fall for the crosses but I fell for Evy and Dovey. I dont hate designers....I do dislike Goldendoodles...Im sorry but they are scary looking. But I would like people to be honest with me, they should take pride in their breeding. But sadly people are blinded by dollar signs.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Ciarra said:


> I agree I have 2 crosses and the breeder was very upfront about them being crosses. I usually dont fall for the crosses but I fell for Evy and Dovey. I dont hate designers....I do dislike Goldendoodles...Im sorry but they are scary looking. But I would like people to be honest with me, they should take pride in their breeding. But sadly people are blinded by dollar signs.


Lol some crosses do look quite odd I agree, they kinda really work well or they really don't. I saw a picture yesterday of a chi x pug puppy and it just looked like a Chi with anger mamagment issues lol. Poor fella looked permenantly angry.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Jetta said:


> Lol some crosses do look quite odd I agree, they kinda really work well or they really don't. I saw a picture yesterday of a chi x pug puppy and it just looked like a Chi with anger mamagment issues lol. Poor fella looked permenantly angry.


Yes, some don't bring out the best features of either parent 
Guess there is no real way of predicting outcome. Some Cihuahua JRT crosses look like poorly bred Chihuahuas, some just like JRT's.

Jetta, just realised I don't think I've seen any pics of your little guy, other than on your siggy. Have you ever posted any on the board?

He must be gettting quite a young man now 
How old is he?

Barbara x


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> Yes, some don't bring out the best features of either parent
> Guess there is no real way of predicting outcome. Some Cihuahua JRT crosses look like poorly bred Chihuahuas, some just like JRT's.
> 
> Jetta, just realised I don't think I've seen any pics of your little guy, other than on your siggy. Have you ever posted any on the board?
> ...


He is always changing but still we get a lot of fox coments when we walk him.

I did post a few pictures about a week ago when his ears had both lifted.

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?t=39471

It was a couple pages back so that's the link to it

I do really need to update my pictures in my signiture. By the looks of it he will grow a full sheltie coat although it's fanning out to frame his face in the way a LC Chi's does. I have seen one photo of another chi x sheltie that was fully grown I'm not sure if it's how Loki will look for sure but since this is a thread about cross's I'll find it and post it to show you.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Wow, he just looks just like a Sheltie type doesn't he, I can't see any Chi there at all! Obviously nobody could mistake Loki for a Chihuahua!

Just shows how difficult it is now to differentiate between crossbreeds and poor examples of the breed! Which is actually what this thread is about...or mostly!!! We do rather tend to drift...but it doesn't really matter....still doggy chat 

Barbara x


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Ciarra said:


> From Zero's picture he looked like a great looking chihuahua puppy. I messaged her to see if she still had him, since he would be 12 wks old. Well when I got him at 12wks old he was already over 3lbs. I asked her "How big you think, he will get?" "No more than 5lbs" She told me. He will be a year in August and is already 10lbs!!! Not only that but he is so much longer than any of my other chihuahuas and has longer snout and fat ankles. Sadly I feel like I was taking advantage of...I love Zero but I hate how I was promised a full chi when clearly he doesnt seem full chi at all! That is the last time I trust a breeder will out doing some backround work on them. Or Im just gonna stick with the breeders I know that arent lying to people and telling them their puppies are full when they arent.
> 
> Not only that I have emailed her on many occasion trying to get his papers and she wont respond....people make me sick.


What a shame, he looks a lovely boy, but it's unfair what she did.

My Jago doesn't fit the breed standard, but I knew he was likely to be on the large side as a pup, he was the biggest in the litter 

Barbara x


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> Wow, he just looks just like a Sheltie type doesn't he, I can't see any Chi there at all! Obviously nobody could mistake Loki for a Chihuahua!
> 
> Just shows how difficult it is now to differentiate between crossbreeds and poor examples of the breed! Which is actually what this thread is about...or mostly!!! We do rather tend to drift...but it doesn't really matter....still doggy chat
> 
> Barbara x


He's certainly got the sheltie coat but I think a Sheltie owner would probably say he's more Chi as a Chi would say he's more Sheltie.

He's got a little curly tail that curls over his back and shows everyone his bum which is distinctly Chi and his muzzle is a lot shorter than a sheltie. I couldn't see so much chi in him at first but it's actualy after spending more time on here and looking at all the little chi's that I can really see it a lot in his face now even though his sturdy little body's definatly more sheltie. Lol he's having an argument with a hairbrush at the moment sniffing and grunting at it in contempt at it's bristtleyness.

Loki's are definatly quite chi too I think which are oneof our favorate things about him we love his big ears so much. Either way he's a fluffy little bundle of joy and everybody we meet is facinated by him.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

One of the breeds suffering most in the UK seems to be the Pomeranian. It's another breed we considered in the past.

So many Poms are so badly bred that they look more like the larger Spitz dogs in their family, twice the size or more than they should be...I like the tinies...or rather correct 

Although I have a lager Chi myself, I hate to see the breed go down this path  

Barbara x


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> One of the breeds suffering most in the UK seems to be the Pomeranian. It's another breed we considered in the past.
> 
> So many Poms are so badly bred that they look more like the larger Spitz dogs in their family, twice the size or more than they should be...I like the tinies...or rather correct
> 
> ...


I do think it is very wrong when pedigree's are bred badly and it starts to affect the pedigree gene pool and the standard of the breed. Pedigree's should be kept as such and cross's should be sold as such. If people want their own style of dog to be a pedigree then they can fork out the money and put in the years or decades of profeshional breeding needed to create a new breed and then wait years and years more for it to be proven and accepted as a new breed. i guess diluting an already excepted breed is much cheaper and easier a short cut to a quick buck though.


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## WeLoveHiro (Apr 14, 2009)

people always ask me what kind of dog hiro is...an when i say chihuahua...they say really? all shocked like. i think he totally looks like what he is...a chi...im not sure why they are surprised.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

WeLoveHiro said:


> people always ask me what kind of dog hiro is...an when i say chihuahua...they say really? all shocked like. i think he totally looks like what he is...a chi...im not sure why they are surprised.


He looks like a proper little boy maybe they think all the chi's are girly looking so are thrown by a little boy Chi who looks like a cheaky little boy indeed and not like he'd be happy to ever wear pink lol.


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## WeLoveHiro (Apr 14, 2009)

Jetta said:


> He looks like a proper little boy maybe they think all the chi's are girly looking so are thrown by a little boy Chi who looks like a cheaky little boy indeed and not like he'd be happy to ever wear pink lol.


haha thank you. i think you are right.


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

Linipi Chihuahuas said:


> A Chihuahua = apple domed, up to 6 pounds, short snout, cobby body.
> 
> A guaranteed Chihuahua mix = anything else.
> 
> ...


I always wonder about this as well... I think that the top dog is a chihuahua, but just very far out of standard.

The problem is, there are SO many BYBs breeding for money and they don't care what the dogs they're breeding even look like... so over time the chis get so far from breed standard they lose most of the chi features.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

~*Jessie*~ said:


> The problem is, there are SO many BYBs breeding for money and they don't care what the dogs they're breeding even look like... so over time the chis get so far from breed standard they lose most of the chi features.


I've just looked at apic of a "Chihuahua" pup for sale and I would have sworn it was a Jack Russell puppy...definately not a pure bred Chihuahua.

A cross definately, I would have laughrd in the sellers face!

Now so many BYB's are selling not only Chihuahuas but crosses, that to be honest....even they probbaly don't know who the father is...despite what it says on the "pedigree" 

Barbara x


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> I've just looked at apic of a "Chihuahua" pup for sale and I would have sworn it was a Jack Russell puppy...definately not a pure bred Chihuahua.
> 
> A cross definately, I would have laughrd in the sellers face!
> 
> ...


I think the price of some pedigree's are not helping the situation though either. If a person is willing to pay £600 for a dog then I think that is enough to ensure sombody is taking a sale seriously and really want the puppy and to give it a good home but when the recession is hitting everybody so hard for those who just want a small dog to love and care for many aren't able to justify paying £1000 for a dog. Especialy when there are so many cute cross's for half the price if they're not in a possition to be extravegant and very many aren't right now then a cute cross is just fine and will likely have just as much love to give too.

I'd be fonder of a family breeder than a money grabbing one selling pedigree's for £1500, it's so clearly money orientated breeding when prices are so high and I don't think that's such a good thing either.

If somebody has two loved pedigree family pets or two friends do and they want puppies then granted they need to take a breeding very seriously and consult a vet yadda yadda, that goes without saying but if they cross two loved pets for another por themselves then there's a lot more love in that breeding than the profit seeking breeders.

People just don't have as much money now and are being more sensible so as long as pedigree's are still a grand each at least, then expect the cross's to keep becoming more popular.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

We don't have a "lot of money" but if I want a Chihuahua, I want a Chihuahua 

I love mongrels, had two beauties which I was devoted to. Now I want a Chihuahua that looks like a Chihuahua. If i wanted a pup that looks like a JRT/Crossbreed whatever I'd take the rescue route.

I'll be looking to the Chihuahua breed clubs for my next pup or asking people like Jesshan and her friends (she has some nice friends) for help. I don't mind paying for quality...and that means pet quality, my babies mean pets not puppies 
Good heavens If I bred a a litter simply for £££'s/just one litter/etc my rescue friends would lynch me...for sure 

Barbara x


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## pinkglitterybunny (Jul 26, 2008)

Precious is a cross... her father is chi x jack russel and her mum is full chi...so makes her 3 quater chi lol! I grew up with a cross breed and havent ever known about breeding standards and stuff til I came on the forum and did the research. I had no idea what a byb was til I came on here either! I am sorry that I was a little ignorent to it all...or just poorly educated about it all!

I had already got precious by then but I still speak to the woman who I got her off, and she sold her as a cross.
I love my little mungrel lol xx


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Mongrels can be incredibly cute and if they are sold as such and with an appropriate price tag...it's up to the buyer 

If I wanted a mongrel (cross breed) I'd rather my money went to a rescue...Rather than a back yard breeder. 
Barbara x


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> Mongrels can be incredibly cute and if they are sold as such and with an appropriate price tag...it's up to the buyer
> 
> If I wanted a mongrel (cross breed) I'd rather my money went to a rescue...Rather than a back yard breeder.
> Barbara x




Cross or not if you want a dog of toy breed size you don't have much luck with rescue either, they're the very first ones to go.


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## carachi (Mar 20, 2005)

Jetta said:


> Cross or not if you want a dog of toy breed size you don't have much luck with rescue either, they're the very first ones to go.


That doesn't make it right. I refuse to support people who are adding to our population of pet dogs. Have you ever been to a rescue shelter before? Have you ever looked into the eyes of the cute little 8 week old puppies that are going to be put down because there are people out there who are irresponsibly taking their possible homes? 

If you can't afford a registered breeder puppy then maybe you shouldn't get a dog at all. If you can't aford $1500 for a puppy, how can you possibly afford the things that come with a puppy? And spending more money upfront to a registered breeder just means you're saving more in the long run. Buying a BYB puppy just means you'll probably have to spend thousands on correctional surgeries.

Sorry to sound snappy but I've had it up to here with you trying to justify buying from a BYB and supporting those monsters.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Linipi Chihuahuas said:


> That doesn't make it right. I refuse to support people who are adding to our population of pet dogs. Have you ever been to a rescue shelter before? Have you ever looked into the eyes of the cute little 8 week old puppies that are going to be put down because there are people out there who are irresponsibly taking their possible homes?
> 
> If you can't afford a registered breeder puppy then maybe you shouldn't get a dog at all. If you can't aford $1500 for a puppy, how can you possibly afford the things that come with a puppy? And spending more money upfront to a registered breeder just means you're saving more in the long run. Buying a BYB puppy just means you'll probably have to spend thousands on correctional surgeries.
> 
> Sorry to sound snappy but I've had it up to here with you trying to justify buying from a BYB and supporting those monsters.


I couldn't agree more.

Barbara x


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Linipi Chihuahuas said:


> That doesn't make it right. I refuse to support people who are adding to our population of pet dogs. Have you ever been to a rescue shelter before? Have you ever looked into the eyes of the cute little 8 week old puppies that are going to be put down because there are people out there who are irresponsibly taking their possible homes?
> 
> If you can't afford a registered breeder puppy then maybe you shouldn't get a dog at all. If you can't aford $1500 for a puppy, how can you possibly afford the things that come with a puppy? And spending more money upfront to a registered breeder just means you're saving more in the long run. Buying a BYB puppy just means you'll probably have to spend thousands on correctional surgeries.
> 
> Sorry to sound snappy but I've had it up to here with you trying to justify buying from a BYB and supporting those monsters.


You can buy a Papillon bithc from a register breeder for £600 bt a chihuahua will cost you £1200 or more so you're talking 1820$ at that is just because people have bred CHi's for as much money as they can get out of them.

If an acredited KC breeder thinks £600 is a high enough price to secure a decent owner for a Papillon also a very small toy breed then there's no justification for the Chi breeders to ask for twice as much they're only breeding for money and all the Papillon breeders I've spoken to breed for show and only sell when they have spare as it were.

I've spoken to those who've bred cross litters because they love that cross and I've felt just as comfortable with them as with the Pedigree breeders they just breed different dogs that's all.

Yes we have been to shelters and there wasn't a single puppy about to be put down in sight in fact not a sinlge puppy at all, only one or two medium sized dogs and the rest were large dogs which wouldn't be the rigt choice for us at all as we don't have enough garden it wouldn't be fair to them while we're in the house we're in and it's just not the type of dog we're looking for. I was bitten in the face by a large breed rescuse dog as a child so while my daughters are so young we would never be able to chance a large breed from a rescue.

There is one shelter with some small breed dogs again no puppies apart from one blind one who again wouldn't be suited to a household with small kids but the other dogs are all ex breeders and very fearfull so they would never be re-homes with small children either.

We will explore all avenues untill we find the rigt pup for us but i would feel happier with a family breeder be it pedigree or not doesn't matter I don't want a breeder that actualy has a kennels in her garden as one KC breeder i spoke to did. I'm looking for a puppy raised in a family home.

As for money not that my situation is any of your business but we can ample afford to buy a dog but I'm a little more sensible than to spend £1200 on a dog when I can not justify that price since it's twice that of other breeds and for no resons othe than a lot of people are wanting to breed them just to make a quick buck.

We're considering a few breeds now (Matt wants a malteese but I'm not so keen) so we're just waitting for a pup we both love, a little girl and be she pedigree or not doesn't matter to us. Loki is not a pedigree his breeder didnt add any dogs to the population of the shelters in fact we were lucky to have him he was the last of the litter and his mother was a family pet who was being spayed and retired from breeding.

Loki is fully insured (for a cheaper price than if he was pedigree) with the most comprehensive cover we could find and any new pup will be the same also.

Just because we have more sensible plans than to give a large amount of mone to sombody breeding for money only and the vast majority her seem to be when prices vary from £400 to £1200 in the same litter just because of sex doesn't mean i can not afford a dog and you tow a thin line between a debate and personal attack here making comments and assumptions on another persons personal finances and whether or not they should even own a pet by your standards.

Snappy is an understatment and if that's the way you debate then I likely see another thread lock comming on. Shame though since everyone else has managed the subject relatively well whatever they're feelings, they've been shared and disagree'd with and all in a manner without coming to personal attacks on people.


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## Katie (Apr 9, 2005)

There's 2 sides to every thing, just because someone else doesn't agree with your beliefs doesn't mean they're wrong and they shouldn't be talked down to because they prefer a certain kind of dog, we all have our preferences in looks in color. I'm going to lock this, no point in listening to arguments. It's the same 3 people arguing with each other, nobody wants to listen to your bickering, take it to PMs.


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