# new chibaby ( 6weeks) help apperciated ♥



## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

Helloooo, new to puppies and the forum!

I got a chihuahua baby today, I was planning too but didn't think I'd get one until october time.
But I saw a ad this morning with a cream boy ( what I was looking for ) so I asked my friend since the location was right if she recognized the number and it turned out to be the same breeder as she got her chihuahua from.
So went down there this afternoon and I got my cream little boy and she came home with the last boy too!

I'm just a bit worried though, they are very young 6 weeks on friday - I know now that they shouldn't be taken until at least 8 weeks.
But the breeder seemed to be letting them all go at 6week and I didn't want to loose him, so I bought him there and then. So please don't hate on me for this 

He seems very healthy, bright eyes, no discharge, he has some fleas which I've been trying to comb out but skin is otherwise fine - going to book a vet appointment tomorrow.

Hes licked a little bit of the puppy food I was given and had a little bit of water, I've also syringed some water mixed with a tiny bit of manuka honey as I was slightly worried he may be a little dehydrated.

Hes had about 4 tiddles and is mostly sleeping, currently curled up asleep with a teddy in sheepskin with a warm waterbottle underneath.

Could anyone please give me some tips & advice? especially those who have also got puppies young.

I'm a worried first time owner of puppy x

oh and picture! only crappy quality of phone atm tho sorry.


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## LittleGemma (Apr 1, 2012)

Yep, 6 weeks is much too early for a puppy to leave his mother. You're going to need to feed him very often, as in every few hours. You'll need to wake up in the night and feed him once or twice depending on how long you sleep. I'd advise you go out and buy some Nutrical for him. If he's not eating properly, you're going to need this to keep him from becoming hypoglycemic.

That's about all the advice I can offer. I don't have personal experience with very young puppies. I'm sure some ladies here will be able to offer you more advice that have personal experience.

Good luck! He is very cute. I hope all goes well.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

I think the word "Breeder" bestows some sort of respect on them that they do NOT deserve.

What lowlife jerks to let a pup leave at 6 weeks, with fleas to boot - five minutes with them, that's all I'd want, just five minutes :coolwink:


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## Buildthemskywards (Jun 16, 2012)

He's absolutely gorgeous! So he's about 5 and a half weeks? That's far too early to be taken from their mother. Seems she was going to sell them early whoever bought them but it will mean things being more difficult for you in terms of feeding and toileting more often and having to teach things the mother would have taught; doggy manners like bite inhibition. I'd try to have him spend as much time around your friend's chi and puppy so that he is socialised with other dogs. You'll have a lot of socialising to do - you'll need to introduce him to anything nd everything so that he won't be afraid of it when he's older. You may need to take things more slowly and gently when you do introduce him to stuff to make sure it's a positive experience because he'd usually have his mother there for reassurance at this age. Read everything you can - I liked chihuahuas for dummies but I'd try finding something about bringing up small puppies, something for breeders perhaps. I don't really have any experience with young puppies so hopefully someone else can be more helpful. I don't think this breeder sounds very good or responsible though.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

I know a bit awful about it  I hope things will be okay.
The woman was a gyspy and has alot of dogs/litters, though alot of people in the area seem to have her dogs.

Is there any major signs I should worry about / look out for?
is what im doing okay at the moment?


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

You'll need Nutri-cal or Nutri-vet (vitamin/mineral molasses based goop) instead of using plain honey/water, and definitely a high quality puppy milk substitute imo if he's only 5.5 weeks - no way can he just start on normal pet food & thrive. What type and brand of food are you intending to feed him? Every mouthful must count at this delicate stage (or any stage really, but especially now).

Personally I would be reporting the woman to the local Council (surely there's a limit on how many dogs you can have on a property, she must be breaking some county rules that would get the authorities out there, breeding without a licence, tax avoidance and anything else you can think of) and your RSPCA equivalent too, they should pounce just because of the age thing. People like this need to be shut down, fined and not allowed near animals.


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## kimr (Nov 14, 2010)

Nutrical will do the trick, and lots of small feedings...Lots...

He is beautiful!

It sounds like she was running a puppy mill. So sad...


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

heartagram said:


> Helloooo, new to puppies and the forum!
> 
> I got a chihuahua baby today, I was planning too but didn't think I'd get one until october time.
> But I saw a ad this morning with a cream boy ( what I was looking for ) so I asked my friend since the location was right if she recognized the number and it turned out to be the same breeder as she got her chihuahua from.
> ...


I agree with Dee. Any "breeder" that would give you a 5.5 week old puppy with fleas is not reputable. Most reputable Chi breeders will not let a puppy go before 10 weeks. 

With that being said, the puppy is home now. How much does he weigh? When will he see a vet? I would worry that a less than reputable breeder would have sickly puppies... a vet needs to do a thorough check up. 

You need to buy some milk replacement. She is far too young to be weaned. For the first few weeks, I would mix milk and kibble, then SLOWLY wean him off of the milk. What kibble do you have him on? He also needs to have access to food 24/7. He needs to be given Nutrical every few hours to prevent hypoglycemia. You need to get up every few hours at night to make sure he is fed and okay. 

I am assuming he does not have any shots yet? I would talk to the vet about the puppy shot schedule and get that set up. 

As far as socialization, that will NOT be easy with a puppy being taken from mom and the litter so young. Being with the litter in those last few weeks is VERY important for more than just health reasons. They learn how to play with others and act appropriately. They learn basic socialization skills and how to interact with other dogs and people. It is THE MOST IMPORTANT period of a puppy's development. Since he did not get that time with mom and siblings, you are going to have to teach him social skills, bite inhibition, etc. 

And DO NOT let him outside until he has had his shots. Depending on when he was weaned, he may not be as protected by mom's antibodies as he should be. 

My advice would be get to a vet ASAP that can guide you through this time.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

They're licensed according to them and the dogs do look in good condition to me as were their other animals, when I think of a puppy mill I think of loads of dogs and lots of litters being bred constantly and in dire conditions - this was not the case from what I could see.
I guess I was too easily encourage and confident as I know two people already with dog previous from them and they're lovely dogs.
But yeah my friend got his brother, and also has a previous dog from there who is perfect - so he will have someone his age to grow up with.

I've ordered orijen puppy food and two of "Puppy Milk 250ml by Pets at Home" to mix and hopefully encourage to eat more.
He is currently eating what I was given, not sure what it is w/o looking

I shall look into Nutri-cal or Nutri-vet, anywhere best to get it from in the UK?

I'm planning to get appointment with the vet tomorrow for overall health check and to register him there and no he has had no shots yet but he has been wormed.

T___T sob I hope my baby will be alright..


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

Your vet will stock the Nutri - whatever they call it over there.


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## Jayda (Jun 15, 2012)

You did say your friend got a puppy too. I don't know much about this when they are young but would it help to keep the two together for awhile. Your second to last picture looks like it has two pups quite content with each other. I am sorry you find yourself in this situation but now you can only do the best you can. You will get a lot of good advice here from people who can help you.


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

Ok, Deep breath time. It's not as dire as all that. I got my Pepper about the same age. He only needed Nutrical one time, the first night when I didn't realize I needed to feed him during the night. You only give the Nutrical if he is showing signs of low sugar, lethargic, wobbly, unfocused. And ALWAYS give some food after the Nutrical to prevent a sugar crash. My baby was 15 oz at 6 weeks, so even if yours is small, you probably never have to give it unless he is not eating. It is not a replacement for eating and it is dangerous to just give it without food after. I mixed the puppy milk in with the kibble and he had no issues eating it. Or you can get canned puppy food if he is having trouble with the kibble. That being said, I kept the puppy next to me on the bed in a crate the first two weeks until he was 8 weeks. That way, you will wake up when he needs to potty, usually around 2 am, and give him some food then. After 8 weeks, he can go into a pen with food, water, toys, pee pads and a bed. This was my set up:









He will have the other puppy to play with, that will be fine. He will learn. And even without the other puppy, he will be fine. Dogs do learn bite inhibition and socialization even when taken from their moms early. Sorry if they scared you. You just make sure he is fed when he's hungry, I did four times a day and once at night, and he will do well.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Pam knows better than me, I would definitely take her advice over mine! I just know from what I've researched. 

Anyhow, I absolutely did not mean to scare you. I think you will be fine. I just want to make sure that you know everything possible to help the puppy. I think that just the fact that you came here is a good sign that you will take good care of your baby. 


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

Hmm, well they must be different products because the Nutrigel by Ilium Troy Laboratories that I'm currently looking at is merely a paste of high energy vitamins used in convalescing and to increase appetite dramatically (which it works very, very well at doing). 

It smells gorgeous, reminds me of my ponies, I'm sure the base is molasses which in itself is super healthy & nutricious energy giving 

Dose = for 5kg you use 3 x 10cm strips per day *or as required *(those last 3 words clearly indicate there is NO danger in giving such product). So with a Chi puppy it is obviously a lot, lot less. I gave it twice daily to those of mine who loved it, even though they came to me at 12-14 weeks, and they thrived on it.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Unfortunately it isn't all that uncommon to sell puppies at 6 weeks in the UK. You are definitely in the right place for help and advice.
Welcome to the forum, does the little one have a name yet?


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

Thankyou for all the replies.
keep trying to sleep for an hour and wake up at alarm but at 3am I haven't slept yet.

I'm just concerned hes not eating enough, he doesn't seem as lively as his brother was whom is apparantly greedy as well! Is it normal for them to be so sleepy? hes quite wobbly walking around as well.
Hes barely eaten anything tbh, few licks of a teaspoon nothing really all night other than the and honey water which ive given in the syringe.
He kinda whines when I try to give him the food, haven't seen him poop either.
He just crawls back towards you and wants to fall asleep! 

Do you think I should buy some goats milk tomorrow just to see if that lets him eat much more? I hope to see the vet in the morning anyway so I guess I can't do much until then and they can advise me food wise.

Thankyou for your post svdreamer is it reassuring! i'm worried his going to die! haha  Hes in a crate near me and has also been on the bed beside me, currently on his sheepskin on my lap though atm after another attempt at feed and water.

I will ask my vet about Nutrigel and try and get that or something simular.

I've been calling him Noah, so probably Noah unless I find something else haha.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

Try to give him whatever food you're giving him from your finger so he licks if off skin instead of cold, hard, stainless steel. even smear it over the palm of your hand and let him lick. 

Did this idiot women give you soft/wet/tinned food or did she give you kibble? If it was kibble, smash it up with a hammer into crumbs, add hot water, make a smooth paste and if he will, let him lick if off you, if he won't add a little more water & give him 1ml at a time via a syringe - when I say 1ml at a time, I mean the tiniest amount every hour or so - if your syringe doesn't have mls on it then work give about 1/3 of a teaspoon.

He'll be wobbly anyway because of his age, or do you mean that he is more wobbly now than when you first saw him and is getting wobblier as time goes on? You need to keep his sugar levels up and water too so, again, just give the tinest amount every hour until you get to the vet.


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## LittleGemma (Apr 1, 2012)

heartagram said:


> Thankyou for all the replies.
> keep trying to sleep for an hour and wake up at alarm but at 3am I haven't slept yet.
> 
> I'm just concerned hes not eating enough, he doesn't seem as lively as his brother was whom is apparantly greedy as well! Is it normal for them to be so sleepy? hes quite wobbly walking around as well.
> ...


To be honest it sounds like his blood sugar is low. It can drop extremely fast with these tiny, young pups. You should get him to the vet as soon as you possibly can. Keep trying to feed him all night. You should keep syringe feeding him honey water until you get to the vet. I would just add honey to his entire water bowl too so that he gets it when he drinks from there, if he's even doing that. Poor thing wasn't even weaned from his mother yet. He probably has no idea how to handle solid food. This is why no responsible breeder would ever let a pup go so early.

I don't know about goat milk. Your vet is probably going to give you some food recommendations for him, and may even suggest syringe feeding him something wet and pureed down his throat if he still refuses to eat on his own. And definitely make sure to ask for the Nutrical too, if they don't already recommend it on their own.


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## Jennmay (Dec 31, 2011)

My Holly came to me at 5 weeks 4 days old. She did get low blood sugar so nutri-cal is a must if you do not have any on hand and you puppy falls over or acts unusual you can give Kayro syrup syrup if you do not have any nutri-cal at this moment and I fed mine Blue Buffalo puppy wet along with a puppy milk replacer she would lap it up. Be careful of feeding dry for a bit my little one got choked even with moistened down kibble.


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## ChiMama5 (Jun 29, 2012)

He's a beautiful little boy! Quit beating yourself up. You surely didn't do anything intentionally wrong & obviously love him already. I don't know what others would think of this but when one of mine first came home I was told that if I had trouble getting her to eat & was worried to try Gerber meat sticks for babies & toddlers. Gobbled them right down. This is NOT something you want to continue to feed but helped in a tight spot. Get him to the vet & you will feel better. Sending good wishes .....


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Oh he is adorable!!! Congratulations and don't apologize to anyone. We live in a great big world and what is done in some parts of it is done differently in other parts. We all want you to feel welcome and comfortable asking questions, and I hope someone on here has the answer. I sure don't always--I'm just learning, but there are alot of people who do. If I were you, I would have the Nutrical or whatever you call it in the UK on hand but like Pam said focus on food first, but like Kim said if you have to go with Gerber baby food if that is what he will eat to get food down him. Be sure though to get some puppy milk at his age. I don't know at his age if this will work--Pam will know--but a loosely scrambled egg is GREAT protein and my 9 week old loved it when I couldn't get her to eat anything else. Good luck and keep us posted!!!


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

lulu'smom said:


> Oh he is adorable!!! Congratulations and don't apologize to anyone. We live in a great big world and what is done in some parts of it is done differently in other parts. We all want you to feel welcome and comfortable asking questions, and I hope someone on here has the answer. I sure don't always--I'm just learning, but there are alot of people who do.


I agree with this so much. It is NOT your fault and you did nothing wrong. If you can get through the next few weeks, it will be fine. I didn't mean to judge or act as though you did bad. I would definitely have an issue with the irresponsible breeder, but not you at all. I think that the best thing you can do for your baby is diligently ask questions here and patiently help him grow up. 

Noah is a great name. He is definitely a looker, too. I have a big soft spot for the light colored ones. Very sweet! What's his personality like?



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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

I'm a little confused - why are some here intimating that the OP has been scared by people rushing to offer good, solid advice, or that she's been made to feel in any way whatsoever unwelcome, unable to ask questions by the dozens or 100's, or as though anyone offering advice has in any way, shape or form blamed her for this diabolical situation she finds herself in? That is completely untrue and you know it!

The actual reality is quite the opposite from what I'm reading - the situation is as dire as dire can be based on my reading off the facts, and the OP could try any one of the many suggestions put forward to help her puppy through the night (that she, as a wonderful, concerned and quite clearly young, new owner has stayed up throughout with her puppy) until she can get to the Vet. Thank goodness it's summer over there right now because every single one of us forgot to mention about ensuring warmth at all times 

I, for one, deeply resent being part of the majority who are "being sweetly put back in our box" because of some misplaced perception that someone is in any way offended or has been unnecessarily scared when a puppy's life is well and truly at stake here and that's a fact .... the line is that fine between life and death, as we well know! I'm sorry, but a 5.5wk old puppy searching frantically for a nipple will not eat kibble simply soaked in puppy milk successfully enough at this moment in time to keep itself out of danger t/out the entire night when it's had only a tiny bit of honey & water, besides which she doesn't have any puppy milk, does she! 

If the OP is a tad miffed thinking anyone is blaming her instead of the breeder she will tell us so, and in any event, it's a moot point at 3am when she's alone, frightened and trying to do the right thing by her new unweaned baby - if she gets through to tomorrow, she will see, as plainly as the nose on her face that no-one was critisising her at all, not one bit, rather, all rushing to help her and be there with her in spirit, for pity's sake.

The various suggestions people gave were all fantastic in their own right, and will be here for all time to hopefully help many a new puppy and terrified owner as it gets more and more wobbly, stumbles and falls, perhaps starts fitting in the wee small hours of the lonely night. They will get through that night implementing any of the above suggestions, and be off to the vets to get everything sorted when the sun rises on a new HAPPY day. 

*Many, many people have lost young pups in situations just like this, so please, let's not sugar-coat it or downplay the importance and true gravity of the situation in any way whatsoever lest anyone now, or in the future, should read some parts and not others and thereby adopt a blase or ambivalent attitude, because it could well be fatal!!!*

By now I would imagine the OP is making preparations to get them to the vet so she's on the doorstep at opening time and the next thing we'll hear is, "The Vet said it's all good, I've got this, this and this, phew what a rough, scary night but all better now" and we'll enjoy progress photos of him growing up fast and strong.


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## LittleGemma (Apr 1, 2012)

I hope I haven't offended the OP with anything I've said. It's not the OP's fault, it's the breeder's. If my posts sound serious it's only because it is a really serious situation. I'm extremely angry with the breeder, but have nothing against the OP. I just want to see the little guy grow up healthy and thrive. I'm pretty sure that's what everyone here wants. No one blames you, heartagram.


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

I've raised two litters of puppies now. By 5 1/2 weeks, all my puppies were able to eat kibble, unmoistened, along with their nursing. That's because they saw their mom eating it and followed her example. From the time they were 4 weeks old they were nibbling on it. At 5 weeks, mom reduced nursing to three to four times a day and spent most of her time out of the pen. But for a puppy that wasn't exposed to kibble, starting them out with some puppy milk soaked kibble can work. It worked with Pepper, who was about the same age as the OP's puppy. That's why I am a bit more calmer with my outlook because I have been there, done that. I never had to suppliment Pepper wth nutrical except the first night because I didn't realized he needed the 2 am feeding and I waited to 6 am. I came on here and was told at that age, they need to eat in the night, too. Problem solved.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Any update on Noah?

You know I am really glad that if that careless breeder was to give a pup to someone at 6 weeks it was to you - someone who cares enough to join this forum and find out what to do and how to care for him. 
The advice given is good, it really pays to be ultra careful and spend that extra time watching, feeding and socialising him and getting him up to an age where you can relax a bit more and enjoy him


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

Hello everyone!

I want to thankyou everyone for their replies, you have all helped me so much!
I've not felt unwelcomed at all and have apperciated every single reply.

I felt incrediably rough last night, didn't sleep at all in fear of something bad happening. I fed him some loose scrambled egg like lulu'smom's suggested this morning, which he did eat but I didn't feel comfortable leaving Noah at home at all today for any sort of period of time w/o him not really having anything inside him and someone around constantly, as my parents went out for a short time today. So thankfully my friend took him in today with his brother whilst I was at work.
Which made me feel better as I didn't have the stress of worrying whilst at work, knowing he was in experianced safe hands.



They got some puppy milk for them and this has seemed to have helped with Noahs appetite tremendously, he then was happy to eat the dog food on his own .
When I came to pick him up he was curled up zonked with his brother with a belly full of milk and food after a good day of play,eat and sleep.

I have not yet taken him to the vet as my friend suggested to see how he was after today with the milk, I will be taking him before the end of the week for a overall check up and to register him with the vets anyway - but I feel alot mroe happier on the way he is atm and not too worried about him now, touch wood, this will continue.


Heres some pictures taken not too long ago, bit sleepy! Me being a noob struggling to get the camera to focus properly, so only have a couple that wer not too badly out of focus, must take some more later!


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Noah is precious. I am so glad and relieved he is eating and that it is going well. 


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks for updating, so glad he is eating now.
I'm not hugely experienced with Chi puppies, but to me, he actually looks younger than nearly 6 weeks.


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## heathuhhhhwebbbb (Aug 3, 2012)

He is a doll. I'm glad to see he is feeling better, as are you with how he is acting.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

Wicked Pixie said:


> Thanks for updating, so glad he is eating now.
> I'm not hugely experienced with Chi puppies, but to me, he actually looks younger than nearly 6 weeks.


mm I don't know about that, he is quite podgy bigger than his brother, however he is alot quieter and more sleepy, his brother is trouble, very vocal and playful haha! his birthday should be the 29th of June.
I can see his teeth coming through tho he is just gummy at the moment and I guess the milk did something as he really gobbles back his food now on his own.


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

I am so very happy to hear he is doing well. He just needed the pump primed, I guess. He is absolutely gorgeous.


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## Jayda (Jun 15, 2012)

Oh goodness, he is so cute! I hope he keeps eating well.


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## LBChi (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm so glad he's doing better and eating! He is adorable!


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## Buildthemskywards (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm glad he's feeling better. What part of the Uzk are you from?


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

South East,Kent


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## Buildthemskywards (Jun 16, 2012)

Every one seems to be down south!


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

I'm sure it did him the world of good being with his brother,as he's so young he must miss his littermates,you're doing a great job


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

Oh look at him with his tiny little liver nose .... he is a gorgeous angel. I love the way you've got him in focus and not the rest, it's fantastic. Don't be too quick to laugh at your friend's "devil dog", they take it in turns to be the wicked one of the day 

If his teeth haven't come in yet please don't be giving him kibble and expecting that to be the major part of his diet, and if you do buy kibble, whatever you do, make sure it's a 5 star brand. Science Diet, Eukanuba and much of what's in UK are crap btw (lots of info on feeding quality food here). Best of all, get some ZiwiPeak, it's not at all rock hard like kibble and every mouthful will be full of goodness & pure meat for him.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

pupluv168 said:


> I agree with this so much. It is NOT your fault and you did nothing wrong. If you can get through the next few weeks, it will be fine. I didn't mean to judge or act as though you did bad. I would definitely have an issue with the irresponsible breeder, but not you at all. I think that the best thing you can do for your baby is diligently ask questions here and patiently help him grow up.
> 
> Noah is a great name. He is definitely a looker, too. I have a big soft spot for the light colored ones. Very sweet! What's his personality like?
> 
> ...


Ashley, you are a real sweetheart, and everyone who knows you knows you aren't meaning to judge--it is your nature to be helpful.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Yay! Glad to see he is eating better! Poor little man! I hope he keeps eating and thriving without any problems! The advice the girls gave you is great and nutrical is must for these tiny guys. Keep us posted!! Best of luck!!


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

No teeth at 5.5weeks??? Are you sure his age is right? I don't know about when teeth are supposed to come in, but I thought it was earlier than that??


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

AussieLass said:


> I'm a little confused - why are some here intimating that the OP has been scared by people rushing to offer good, solid advice, or that she's been made to feel in any way whatsoever unwelcome, unable to ask questions by the dozens or 100's, or as though anyone offering advice has in any way, shape or form blamed her for this diabolical situation she finds herself in? That is completely untrue and you know it!
> 
> The actual reality is quite the opposite from what I'm reading - the situation is as dire as dire can be based on my reading off the facts, and the OP could try any one of the many suggestions put forward to help her puppy through the night (that she, as a wonderful, concerned and quite clearly young, new owner has stayed up throughout with her puppy) until she can get to the Vet. Thank goodness it's summer over there right now because every single one of us forgot to mention about ensuring warmth at all times
> 
> ...


I will respond to you Dee because I feel very sure you are referring to me. There is no "some" it is only me. You may be correct that I was projecting my feelings that she was not being made to feel welcome onto her, but then again you may be wrong. That is a matter of opinion. She would have to answer that which she did within this thread, and thankfully she was not made to feel unwelcome. 

The actual reality of the situation as I perceived it was quite different than you perceived, but then that is people's perogatives. She did note that people may have something negative to say about the situation in which she acquired the puppy, but she wanted him. Then, by that point she had him, and she needed help. If you will look back to your first post to her it was not help to this puppy that you are now STRONGLY telling us our attitudes toward can be fatal. It was all about your hatred of the breeder she got the dog from. If you will look at your second post, you then offered the nutrical suggestion and puppy milk--great suggestions--then elaborate, time consuming suggestion of stopping this breeder. Again, you are right, but this does not save this puppy that you are now reeming me out for "sweetly putting you back in your box" for not wanting to scare off someone who needed help with a baby. Pam was the first person that gave her any hope that her dog was going to live, and I may very well be wrong, but from what I have learned on this forum things are done differently in different parts of the world. Frankly, I was not putting you back in your box--as you have said many, many times--this is a forum and people are entitled to express their opinion and should be able to do so without being "called out" as you have done to me. But if I feel as if I have been "called out" I will try to explain my side because everyone is entitled to their opinion. Please know through I think the world of you although I guess the feel must not be mutual.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

The first teeth (incisors) start coming through at 2-3 weeks. Canines at 4 weeks. The back teeth should all be there by about 8 weeks.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

lulu'smom said:


> Ashley, you are a real sweetheart, and everyone who knows you knows you aren't meaning to judge--it is your nature to be helpful.


I do try to be helpful. Obviously I am still learning. I hold many members here, especially those with more extensive experience than I have, in great esteem. I try to give the best advice I can and support other Chi owners. 

I know that you know me, and your post brought tears to my eyes, you are so kind. But I wanted the OP, who doesn't know me, to know that I was trying to do nothing more than be helpful. I want her to feel welcome and encouraged to come back. I didn't want to scare her off. I felt like my post in conjunction with others may have been too much. 

I did realize after re-reading my post that it came across pessimistic and judgmental, which I did not mean to do. So I clarified myself. I don't want ANYBODY here to feel as though I attacked them or judged them, especially new members to whom I am representing this forum's members.

Anyhow, to get back on topic: OP, how is Noah doing? Still doing well? Did you make a vet appointment yet? I would ask when you go to the vet how old he thinks Noah is, since his teeth are not in yet.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

Thankyou for all the kind comments ;__; ♥

AussieLass I have ordered this Orijen - puppy food
ORIJEN Puppy Food: Great Deals on ORIJEN Dog Food at zooplus

which I will soak for him, from my research Orijen is supposed to be quite good?
I'm wondering at this age should I keep away from raw food? I was wondering if raw mince or something would also be acceptable to give to him? Or should I just stick to orijen and the puppy milk.

Also about feeding, his food and water is always out in the dish but I'am waking him up every 2 hours to feed and water to make sure his blood sugar levels are stable- Is this okay? or too little/much?

I plan to ask the vet about nutrical also, going to get appointment tomorrow if they can fit me in, if not will be friday I hope!

He has incisors teeth and the ones behind it, the shape is there but they're still pink? like they haven't pierced quite through the gum yet.
He seems to be chewing and eating okay at the moment, but yes I will be asking on old they think he is - hopefully there won't be any suprises! and he is the age they said he is.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

heartagram said:


> Thankyou for all the kind comments ;__; ♥
> 
> AussieLass I have ordered this Orijen - puppy food
> ORIJEN Puppy Food: Great Deals on ORIJEN Dog Food at zooplus
> ...


You are doing so great! I think everything in this post sounds right. 

Orijen is excellent kibble. Just be sure to watch because it can be kind of rich for some dogs. If it doesn't work for whatever reason, Acana is made by the same company and is a little less rich. 

Please let us know how the vet goes! I can't wait to hear his opinion on little Noah.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

If his canine teeth aren't through yet then he can't be more than 4 weeks old.


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## LBChi (Mar 12, 2012)

Origen is an excellent choice. Imo it and acana are the best kibble you can feed them.


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## ChiMama5 (Jun 29, 2012)

You are doing such a great job! So happy to hear Noah is better & I hope he stays on this new path for you!! Your love will take him a long way.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

lulu'smom said:


> I will respond to you Dee because I feel very sure you are referring to me. *I am referring to anyone who purports to address a poster as though the majority have done something untoward to them* There is no "some" it is only me Wrong. You may be correct that I was projecting my feelings that she was not being made to feel welcome onto her, but then again you may be wrong. Clearly, I am not alone in those thoughts because others rushed to apologise lest their words had made her feel unwelcome, unable to ask questions or any other negative connotation, which annoyed me immensely because they had absolutely no need to feel as though they should apologise for anything, they'd done nothing wrong, nothing at all except offer kind and caring, albeit urgent advice and to suggest otherise was utterly incorrect imo. That is a matter of opinion. She would have to answer that which she did within this thread, and thankfully she was not made to feel unwelcome.
> 
> The actual reality of the situation as I perceived it was quite different than you perceived, but then that is people's perogatives. She did note that people may have something negative to say about the situation in which she acquired the puppy, but she wanted him. Then, by that point she had him, and she needed help. If you will look back to your first post to her it was not help to this puppy that you are now STRONGLY telling us our attitudes toward can be fatal. Smiles, ah, before making statements like that, please sort all the posts into strict chronological order & re-read It was all about your hatred of the breeder she got the dog from. Ummm yes although "hatred" is a very strong word .... funny about that though, her 1st post was just a plain old hello, give me advice, and don't hate on me, post to which I was responding - the OP did not start expressing her fears and worries until her 4th post
> 
> ...


I had a huge long post written out but my computer disconnected, probably a jolly good thing.

In a nutshell, I did not appreciate, and do take offence to anyone apologising on my behalf for something I've put time and effort into writing i.e. "Sorry if they scared you" - Pam's gone there a couple of times, and I've let it slide previously, but not this time because I personally find it unbelievable that someone could think that my words, and everyone else's, were such that they would scare someone rather than save someone's pup - at least those posters proffered solutions the OP could access instantly to save her pup instead of facing the unimaginable worst case scenario. I speak for myself and myself only, never for or on behalf everyone else per se, I am _Mother Hen _to no-one and have no damn desire to be, and I comment on what I see written with my own eyes, and never what I imagine to be the case in my own mind, when it comes to fathoming what someone else's mind is feeling, lmao. 

*Regardless of all this extraneous BS, the OP needs to be afraid and constantly vigilent, not of ChiPeople posters lmao, but most certainly of hypglycemia AND for many weeks to come still *- I did not leave home without Nutrigel in my purse for many months when taking my babies to their regular play dates (when their energy expended in play would surpass their sugar levels by miles when young, 12 - 17'ish' weeks). Additionally, they were given it twice daily for its proven health benefits and appetite stimulation, and they thrived on it!!!

*In closing, here's 312,000, yes three hundred and twelve thousand, results from searching three little words, Hypoglycemia Puppy Died*: hypoglycemia - Google Search 

I dare say forums such as this have saved many, many puppies from perishing, far more than any of us could ever begin to imagine IF their owners have the same smarts this young owner showed and got online to research.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

heartagram said:


> Thankyou for all the kind comments ;__; ♥
> 
> AussieLass I have ordered this Orijen - puppy food
> ORIJEN Puppy Food: Great Deals on ORIJEN Dog Food at zooplus
> ...


Hiya,

Orijen is a great food I believe. I am a raw feeder only so, to that end, I feed ZiwiPeak (which is dehydrated 100% pure meat such as lamb or venison or venison & fish) from New Zealand. So, being as it's from pristine NZ, without being officially cert'd, it's also about as organic as non-organic can get  

You'll read lots of rave reviews about ZiwiPeak here and all over the web - it seems very expensive at the outset but if you compare the miniscule amount you need to feed, it's incredibly economical for one Chi. If you were in Oz, I'd be posting off a pound of it to yout today to give the little munchkin a lift. One of the girls here smashed up her kibble with a hammer in a pillowcase before soaking it so that it gets soaked all the way through. Many here even break up ZiwiPeak which is teeny weeny SOFT flat squares about the size of a middle finger fingernail as well as soaking it.

You could do Orijen twice a day, Ziwi twice a day, and raw mince too, as well as the puppy milk for soaking. Once his teeth come in, he'll really appreciate chicken wing tips, the last bit of the wing, my tinies devoured them in a minute or two and it's such great exercise for little mouths & teeth. Also helps with teeth retention - Chi's retain many baby teeth in their mouths unfortunately and it pays to get surplus removed at spaying time so they only have to go under the anaesthetic one time instead of two.

I think waking up every 2 hours is being way too OCD unless you're incorporating toilet training with that, but there's no way I could or would be doing that ..... plenty of time for that when you have 2 legged babies girl  As long as he has something of quality and a decent quantity every 4 hours at least, he's going to flourish and this must be consistent, so a schedule will work well for him and for you to not lose track. 

Always keep a very sharp eye on him when he's exerted himself and used up his energy supply playing, moving about etc .... that's when he can crash suddenly & you need to get the Nutrical, sugar or honey 'n water into his mouth instantly, it really is that serious! Take it with you whever you go - call me paranoid, but you never know when a vehicle is going to break down, you're stranded in the middle of no-where, out of food and all shops closed, went for a playdate, he's played hard all day and you forgot to take some food for him or he won't eat the food his play buddies are (that happened a lot to me) - there's any number of situations where it's just reassuring to always have it with you, "just in case".


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

You know Dee, you are absolutely right. How dare I attempt--not an apology, but to soothe over the way others have said something. To my mind it is not what you say, it is how you say it. In my thinking, if she gets her feelings hurt and never comes back the puppy can die (which happened in one thread on another forum I am on--not that a dog died, but somebody said something someone took "wrong" and they got mad and left). You are responsible 100% for what you post, and I am responsible 100% for what I post. You and I have VERY different ways of saying things, but TBH I thought we think alike on many things. I am too old to change the way I say things, and I seriously doubt you are going to change the way you say things.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

I've seen the pics and he is just over-the-moon adorable!!! Everyone is giving you excellent advice, so you are covered. I'm not going to add to and confuse. The only thing I will say because I don't think it will confuse is I also like the Orijin, Acana is a bit les protein which some people will say is preferred for chis. I personally love Ziwipeak. I saw Aussielass told about too it is dehydrated raw not a kibble, so it is not like they are chewing on a hard, crunchy "thing." (which you will be softening his anyway) It is like getting raw diet without true raw meat.


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

Wow, I sure didn't mean to start all this. I was mostly responding to her typing "sob I hope my baby will be alright.. " Sorry if I worded my reply to offend you, I certainly didn't mean to. She thought her baby wasn't going to make it through the night. I was sorry that all the info she was given was so dire and scary. NOT THAT YOU OR ANYONE WASN"T WELCOMING OR ANYONE WAS MEAN. Sheesh. 

And this is what I found on a website about hypoglycemia and taking tiny puppies home. 

What is the treatment for hypoglycemia? Give the puppy Nutri-Cal as soon as possible. If you do not have Nutri-Cal on hand, Karo syrup is the next best choice. If that is unavailable, pancake syrup or a pasty mixture of sugar and water should be used. Use whatever you can find that is high in sugar (not artificially sweetened as this will not help) because time is of essence. If the puppy is unresponsive or too weak to take the mixture, rub some on his tongue, the roof of his mouth and on his gums and take him to the vet as soon as possible. It is essential that you give something with sugar in it before you leave for the vet because there will be too many precious minutes lost in route! If no improvement is noticed within 10 minutes, give more of the mixture. Be sure to let your vet know that you suspect hypoglycemia so that more precious time isn’t lost during routine tests. _Once the puppy shows improvement, make sure he eats something with protein in it (dog food, cottage cheese, yogurt, cooked diced chicken, or meat baby food) to keep the blood sugar from plummeting again later._


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## heathuhhhhwebbbb (Aug 3, 2012)

Any update on Noah? I hope he is doing alright!


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## Kurukulla (Sep 26, 2011)

Please report this woman to the releavent authorities in your country........ this poor poor baby 

I apologise if i repeat anything anyone else has said but i havent read the other posts.

Firstly get him to the vet.. you want some wormer because (panacur 10% is safe to use on puppies) and want to worm him.
You need milk replacer (esbilac is a good make) and a very high quality puppy food... he should have had some food so it shouldnt need making into a gruel but i would soften it.. I would give him milk in a dish to lap inbetween his meals plus fresh water... he will need approximately 5 meals a day... and i would be getting up to ensure he has some milk in the night as his mother should still be with him and feeding him at night.

My recent litter were fed by their dam until 10 weeks of age....... 

Socialisation wise you will need to be his litter mates.. teach him bite inhibition.. give him a multitude of toys.. loud noises playing.. washing machines on etc.. lots of banging.. a pen will be needed to keep him confined.

I hate posts like this


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Kurukulla, can I ask you how old you think he is? Thickened ears and canines not fully erupted make me suspect he is actually younger than 6 weeks. I have never bred Chi's though, so I don't know if they develop differently to larger breeds.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

Kuru if you hate them, don't read it :S

I'm not going to report the breeder.

Anyways just got back from the vets, little noahs weighs 600g.
She said he is very strong for his age and is in good condition, so he is healthy which im thrilled to hear  she said his age sounds about right.
She said what I'm doing sounds very good, I also got some wormer which I will be giving to him on monday as I'm not entirely sure when his last worm was.

They didn't have any nutri-cal but I ordered some last night anyway, so hopefully that will arrive soon!
He is currently asleep, but will probably spam some more photos later when hes up ♥


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

That is brilliant news!


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

That's great news! Keep up the great work and post pics soon!!


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

heartagram said:


> Kuru if you hate them, don't read it :S
> 
> I'm not going to report the breeder.
> 
> ...


So glad he's doing fine,i'm so sorry you have had to put up with all these posts,some with great advise ,but must have been very confusing for you,Well done both of you


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

That is great news. I am so happy that all is going well with Noah!!!


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

That's awesome! So glad he got a good check up. So he's about one and a half pounds, that's a good weight. Keep on doing what you are, you are doing great.


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## Kurukulla (Sep 26, 2011)

Wicked Pixie said:


> Kurukulla, can I ask you how old you think he is? Thickened ears and canines not fully erupted make me suspect he is actually younger than 6 weeks. I have never bred Chi's though, so I don't know if they develop differently to larger breeds.


I don't know some teeth at different stages.. Mine teethed early.. Friends litters teethed around the 4-6 weeks but mine had full dentition by 5 weeks old. The ears wouldnt really indicate since some don't flop and some don't ever stand. He looks like a big 5 week old to me. His size will go in his favour luckily. 

I see he had fleas so I would be inclined to worm Now as fleas tend to cause tape worm also.

Sad the breeder won't be reported.... Unfortunately it encourages people to continue these bad practices.


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## Kurukulla (Sep 26, 2011)

Oh before I forget.... If you use nutrical make sure you follow up with some protein otherwise it gives a huge surge in their blood sugar then a crash and you are back to stage one.. Giving protein straight after will help to stabilise it. With regular meals and milk replacement he shouldn't need it because of his size and the amount of meals.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)




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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

The animals are in trouble and detrimental conditions. They are being sold much too young, which is detrimental to their health and socialization. They have fleas and probably worms. Someone is making money at the expense of their health. But if you aren't going to report her, then so be it. I am glad you came here for advice because it probably made a big difference. I hope your puppy stays healthy.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

It is actually a criminal offence to sell unweaned animals (Pet Animals act 1951) Whether you report it or not is entirely up to you, but what this breeder is doing is both unethical and illegal. As Chi lovers we are just concerned about the puppies. If little Noah had been sold to someone other than yourself he might not be here now.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

Wow am I ever late? 

I see you got great advice from our knowledgeable girls. I definitely agree with
all those who are outraged by this "breeder's" behavior, but I see you've made
your decision so I'll let it be. I do wish your puppy well, and please don't hesitate
to ask any other questions. At times good breeders and knowledgeable dog
owners DO know better than a vet, especially regarding nutrition, you can
always take what you hear here and discuss it with your vet, or even get a
second opinion from another vet. Best of luck.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

I'm waiting until monday to worm him because I and the vet don't want to overdose him if he was wormed recently.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

heartagram said:


> I don't know, I know It makes me unpopular and people can hate me for not reporting them and thats fair enough.
> But im not prepared to take the risks and drama, she hasn't sold anything unweaned that can't eat on its own as far as im aware - Noah is certaintly more interested in food than milk.
> 
> But yeah, I'm sorry
> ...



Love, it has NOTHING to do with being popular. By buying a puppy from an
irresponsible breeder you are encouraging & supporting their practices. It's
ok, we all make mistakes, you did not know, but NOW you DO. Which is why
now is a great time to take action and speak up.

This forum is very helpful and supportive, folks here genuinely care about
dogs, not just their own but all dogs, and are only commenting in order to
help. I promise you, it's not about you. No one hates you.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)




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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

I'm not sure where you are from. Here you can report to the SPCA 
anonymously, and they'll send an inspector to check out the premises.


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

I don't think you are a bad person for buying him early. You didn't know. I am horrified with the person selling the puppies, and not you at all.

I don't live in the UK so I can't answer your question exactly. In the US we have local animal control that you can report to, and you can do it anonymously. Maybe you have something similar.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

Heart, I'm certain I would not be the only one here who's been deeply impressed with you - or one so young who's never owned a puppy before, the devotion & care that you're showing him is incredible and, as I think I said before, you've enough basic commonsense for 20 new puppy owners!

If I could just say one thing, it's ok to listen to your vet when it comes to anything medical and better to get 2, even 3 opinions when it's super serious (luxating patella etc), HOWEVER, please don't ever listen to your vet when it comes to nutrition and good food, it's NOT part of their core studies & they'll push whichever brand sends them on the best o/seas holiday i.e. Science Diet, Iams, Eukanuba etc. and, frankly, they're all poisonous crap. Also remember, vets bury their mistakes, and I would much rather take the advice of 20 experienced forum people than 1 single vet when it comes to day to day things 

Being as you're in UK I can understand not wanting to start any trouble, report someone etc., it's the same here because everyone knows everyone, if it gets out that it was you, they know who you are etc. However, I can't help but wonder how many puppies with owners not as smart & dedicated as you have died in the first few nights. Plz remember those figures of 324,000 dying from hypo-g, and that's only the stories & lives that have made it to the www, millions haven't - imagine a young girl waking in the morning to find her puppy stone cold and stiff. What these people are doing is so wrong, it defies description - they really need a damn good shaking. Can you not even send an anonymous gmail email to the RSPCA - being reg'd breeders they'll simply be warned to sell them at a reasonable age and it may change their stupid ways forever.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

No one is horrified with you, we are just horrified that people still sell puppies that young, especially of a toy breed. As you now know, they are at risk of dying from hypoglycemia when they are tiny. A good breeder will keep toy breed puppies until 12 weeks of age, often longer if they are especially tiny. So even selling at 8 weeks, which is common practice in the UK is still very young for a Chihuahua to make the transition to it's new home.
You have taken the time to find out what is best for your puppy, I'm sure you will make a great Chi mummy and become a valued member of this forum. I can't wait to see Noah growing up.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

AussieLass, thankyou for your kind words.

Oh I quite agree about the food etc, I'm not changing that it's just about the worming, I don't dare risk overdosing him ( if that is possible) or to upset his little belly - rather be safe than sorry! I asked if he appeared wormy at all in his belly to the vet and she said he was fine, so I don't think he is any immediate risk if I just wait until monday like instructed by her to do so.

I always look for various opinions and I form my plan of action from what I've researched, I always keep an open mind and I try not to follow anything too blindly!


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Glad to hear Noah is doing well, I too would go with what the vet says on worming.

You are right not to follow anything blindly, I think most of us take on various opinions from here on the forum, from our vets and from our own research and make up our own minds on what we do. 

btw - no one is horrified with you, many, many of us have chis or dogs from sketchy breeders, my first dog came from the most appalling backyard breeder, I then joined this forum and learned so much, that my next two came from a fabulous breeder I met on here - the difference in the two experiences was incredible.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

video of noah, spamspam but he is so cute ;__; ♥


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## heathuhhhhwebbbb (Aug 3, 2012)

heartagram said:


> Noah - YouTube
> 
> video of noah, spamspam but he is so cute ;__; ♥


Cuteness overload!!!!


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Oh he is adorable!!!


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## LBChi (Mar 12, 2012)

He's so cute! I'm in love! :love4:


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

Ha! You got yourself a most divine little munchkin there, and he is going to repay your love and dedication to him 100 times over every day of his long & happy life.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

AussieLass said:


> If I could just say one thing, it's ok to listen to your vet when it comes to anything medical and better to get 2, even 3 opinions when it's super serious (luxating patella etc), HOWEVER, please don't ever listen to your vet when it comes to nutrition and good food, it's NOT part of their core studies & they'll push whichever brand sends them on the best o/seas holiday i.e. Science Diet, Iams, Eukanuba etc. and, frankly, they're all poisonous crap. Also remember, vets bury their mistakes, and I would much rather take the advice of 20 experienced forum people than 1 single vet when it comes to day to day things .


Dee, I really hope you don't mind me quoting you because you are absolutely RIGHT, and I did NOT know any of this until 6 months ago when I joined this forum. There is a "magnificent" (I'm being sarcastic--you know how they always make their site look so great.) website for chihuahuas in our area that, before I joined this site I would have gone straight to to buy a chihuahua, but I now know she is a terrible source and it breaks my heart--she is a BYB. You all know Lulu came from a pet store and is CKC registered, but I didn't know any better. The information shared on this site by responsible breeders and just concerned owners that care enough to learn from each other far outweighs what you will learn from many, many of your average vets. I changed the vet I used for years after joining this forum because I had some radical differences of opinions concerning his medical philosophies and what I now know. You have a gorgegous and apparently healthy puppy that we all look forward to watching grow, and I am glad you joined this forum. I guess you can tell we are all pretty-tight knit and helpful and you should never lack for an answer to any questions you may have.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

lulu'smom said:


> I guess you can tell we are all pretty-tight knit and helpful


Hah! Only iffin' you don't mind me quoting you  Yep, we sure are like a tight knit family, and as such we have our spits, our spats, our hiccups, trials & tribulations, but at the end of the day, when one is down & out, we're all down and out with them, whilst truly sharing the elation of another. 

There is not one of us who've not been touched by a tragedy, and not one of us that hasn't felt the elation of a new Chi, and we really all do take what is happening to our family's babies very much to heart - at first I thought it was just all sooky la-la stuff, but I have shed tears for other people's babies, and thank my lucky stars daily no-one has had to share any pain with me (YET!)

The gel that holds this worldwide & unorthodox family together is our precious little Chi's, full-blood, part-blood, Crufts bred, Moggie back yard bred, it doesn't matter, to us a Chi is a Chi is a Chi and every one as precious as the next.

You've had a real initiation by fire into _Chidom_, but it will be worth it once Noah starts repaying his indebtedness to you, he's just gathering his little wits and strength now, giggles.  Not that it is "indebtedness" as such, but you know what I mean.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

AussieLass said:


> ... at first I thought it was just all sooky la-la stuff, but I have shed tears for other people's babies, and thank my lucky stars daily no-one has had to share any pain with me (YET!)
> ...



You are so right my friend, this site is much more than sooky la-la, it contains 
valuable info and a wonderful community. BUT it also has some sooky la
la...and my oh my how that sooky la-la is good for the soul at the end of a
long/hard day! I love all the puppy pics, and I love how folks who have plenty
on their plate can put it all aside and be KIND to others, even though some
questions were asked a million times before, they continue to answer politely,
offering help and advice. I think it's fabulous. I don't know how other forums
function, but I think this forum is an ideal example that you CAN be respectful
towards others no matter the scenario. We all come from different walks of
life, yet we all share a passion for these tiny dogs, not just our own, but
those of others, and it shows. I love this place. 


ps: love the last posts by you & Tina, great stuff. 



And Heartagram, your little Noah is ADORABLE beyond belief! :love2:


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## Jayda (Jun 15, 2012)

Oh my goodness. My first little one I got as an adult buy my oh my the puppies are so cute!


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## ChiMama5 (Jun 29, 2012)

Heart,
I cannot believe the difference between the pics of Noah when you first brought him home & this video. He looks like a different puppy! You are doing a fine job as a new chi mommy! Just keep listening to that voice inside your head. You will know when he is ill or not quite himself & in need of intervention. So happy he is looking so much better!
Kim


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## nabi (Nov 25, 2004)

the video of Noah is beyond cute...what a little darling... a tiny little polar bear ! He certainly is bright and alert.....you are doing a great job with him...looking forward to watching him grow up...lots of pics please :daisy:


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## ChiMama5 (Jun 29, 2012)

nabi said:


> the video of Noah is beyond cute...what a little darling... a tiny little polar bear ! He certainly is bright and alert.....you are doing a great job with him...looking forward to watching him grow up...lots of pics please :daisy:


LOL -I love it! Polar bear! Perfect description - he really does look like a tiny little polar bear! :flower:


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## DKT113 (Nov 26, 2011)

My Lord is he adorable.

My views differ from many on here about a lot of things ~ I am sure the majority can say that as well ~ but most of us have a common thread that binds ~ we love our critters regardless how we obtained them and we do the best we can for them. 

One thing for sure ~ who knows what would have happened to the little joker had you not taken him in. He's a lucky little guy and efforts in are going to come back to you in spades.

If you keep an eye on him and do your very best 9 times out of 10 common sense will get you through. It's obvious you have boatloads of it. Get him settled in and on some sort of a routine. You've picked a good kibble, he's seen the vet, one you obviously have some confidence in so just keep on keeping on. He needs love, proper nutrition, plenty of rest & if at all possible I would do what you are able to do as far as letting him play with the other little pup because that's pretty important. If it's not feasible to arrange frequent playdates and even if it is... get down on the floor and channel your inner pup and do what you can ~ anything helps especially as it relates to distractions, interruptions, etc ~ you want him to know there is more in the world than just him & "life happens" and make it possible for him to figure out solutions to "life's obstacles". You're his Mama ~ he learns something from every interaction. I would think too there could possibly be some helpful videos or websites that deal with singletons. There will be a lot of crap out there, but there will also be some solid advice that will help you guys along.

I can't wait to show my daughter his video tomorrow, she is going to just love it. And it's going to be fun for us all to watch him grow into on kickass chi! I'm looking forward to it.


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## Jennmay (Dec 31, 2011)

Well he looks happy and healthy keep doing what you are doing it is working  thanks for sharing a video of him


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## Winston's Mom (Jun 21, 2012)

I dont have much advice for you as far as puppys go I am a new mom and first time pet owner also but i can say , that it doesnt matter who you got him from ..... at this point thats done and over and as far as his age he is young but nothing will change that either..... just stay on the path your on. he looks great and is happy and healthy your vet has proven that all you can do now is provide him with lots of love and great care. please ask questions.... we all know i have asked some stupid ones, but we dont know if we dont ask..... have a great day and enjoy Noah... by the way feel free to respond when you see me post some crazy stuff lol....


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

ChiMama5 said:


> LOL -I love it! Polar bear! Perfect description - he really does look like a tiny little polar bear! :flower:


Haha yeah i call him this or piglet! just curious does he look long haired to you guys? both his parents were but im worried he is short? not that it really matters love him either way.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

One of the breeders or showies may be able to tell about his coat being long or smooth but, it's too early for a novice like me to guess because they all look like that when born.

Our of curiousity, and tell me to mind my own besswax if you wish, but I have a burning question - how much did the Gypsy lady charge you for your puppy? 

From what I've seen in UK ads, they start at around 800 quid for an average how you goin' one, and are well over a grand for a designer one. Here in Oz, you expect to pay about 600 quid for a kc reg'd or limited papered one, but being on the bones of my butt financially, there's no way I was going to pay that sort of money so I got my guys ranging from between 150 quid to 300 quid all as pups from their byb breeder and could not be happier or more impressed and my Vet will say the same thing on all counts too  Of course, there's BYB's and then there's BYB's that should be tarred, feathered and run outa town, when they start caging them, having more than 1 litter per bitch per year and break every "let's be decent & put animals before $" rule in the book.


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## elaina (Jul 1, 2008)

i havent read thru all the posts on this thread... i read the beginning ones, and then the end ones. i Loved the video of little Noah !!! i'm really looking forward to watching him grow up


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

What does BYB mean?

But yeah from what I've seen Chis here are incrediably expensive, always at least 600 pounds.

No I don't mind, Noah was advertised 450, apparantly as she hadn't got their papers, though I did have the option to pay if I wanted them, but usually her puppies are 650 w/ papers.

Though in all honesty I wouldn't even know what pedigree papers even are, or mean - doesn't seem to be something I'd need or be that concerned about? as I'd never breed or show - which I assume thats what they're for?

I think in the ways things played out I was fated to get Noah, I wasn't planning to get a puppy so soon but he made an apperance lol.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

BYB means backyard breeder. It is a term used to describe a person that breeds dogs without health testing, care for pedigree or breed standard, and usually motivated by money rather than love of the breed. 

Papers for me meant reassurance that Toby was purebred and not inbred. Also, with his papers came AKC registration, so I knew that his ancestors were AKC registered. With his papers came documents showing health testing on his parents. That was the most important part for me- I wanted to know that his parents patellas, etc. were certified healthy. 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

pupluv168 said:


> BYB means backyard breeder. It is a term used to describe a person that breeds dogs without health testing, care for pedigree or breed standard, and usually motivated by money rather than love of the breed.


In most cases I'll grant you, but certainly NOT all = health testing? How far do you want to go, you mean eyes, manual patella etc etc - mine all had that done when breeders get them immunised. A bit like my mate who just paid $2.8k for a Boston Terrier that had ALL those tests & more & is just about to spend another $1k for a cherry eye op, pfft, and their fancy smancy breeder told them to take a hike, "not our fault". I LOATHE & DETEST the amount of $'s fancy smancy breeders have cost me over the years, I rate MOST of them right up there with realtors (I was one) and car salesmen (I was one).

I don't care for breed or pedigree standard, so it's of no consequence to me if my breeder cares about it either i.e. I WANT PETS with a fab temperament, a healthy body and mind, if they're too long, too tall, too small, too undershot, overshot, floppy years, not fit to be bred or showed, I don't care because they're spayed/neutered and are loved for what they are - a puppy that didn't ask to be born but is here now and needs a forever home. 

Me boycotting BYB's won't stop them, the Government & RSPCA are the only ones who can do that, & they should be pulling their fingers out to make legislations that see to it. What member of the public, with the same ethos as me, is going to pay some clown $1.5k when they can get a ripper for $350? SOME Fancy Smancy breeders are among the greediest, self-centred, lying, thieving cheating people I've met = bald faced lies to save their pockets & their reputations, BYB's don't have to care about either so generally you don't get the lies & BS, just "Here's the dog, like it, buy it, if not, next....."

Motivated by money rather than love of the breed - hmm my BYB's loved the breed and their dogs, otherwise they'd be breeding something else for their little bit of extra income. Unless you've actually bred & raised animals you don't really experience the fact that there is very little money to be made out of breeding - having a Chi bitch who needs a c-section is going to cost you near on $2k and there goes all your profits from a whole heap of 2 pup litters, think about it. By the time you've paid out for food, puppy milk, vet etc. there's really not a lot of money in it. If they were just in it for the money, they'd be breeding bitches that have 6+ pup litters!!!!

If people are doing it tough (as the entire world still is thanks to those 20 or so USA Bankers who should all be sentenced to death for what they did to the entire world) and they're breeding beautiful, pretty, superb temperaments, gloriously healthy (in all respects, touch wood) like mine, then there's no way I would want to see them shut down - how the hell are we poor people supposed to get our darling chis if we can't afford those snobby, up-themselves, so and so breeders that I wouldn't give $2 to. 

I've said it before & I'll say it again - over the years I've spent many, many $1k's on vets bills, some going back 30 years ago that $1k way back then would translate to darn near $10k today, and, guess what, every single dollar spent was on super highly pedigreed & papered dogs that were supposed to be fit for stud breeding and showing and the only thing they were fit for was a vet's euthanasia needle, but I persisted by throwing $'s at them for various dogs for many years. Never, ever again will I give any fancy smancy breeder my money! I'm lucky, I won't ever be buying another dog before I exit the planet seeing Chi's live for 16+ years they'll prolly outlive me. 

I can't wait to stroll around the National Chi Championship show in 10 days with my 4 babies and watch their expressions, oh it'll be priceless, I may even take a few pics titled "_Aussie Chi Breeders & Showies Sucking On Lemons Expressions_"

Yeah, Ned Kelly the Outlaw is my hero!


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

The nutrical arrived today, should I give him some before breakfast then some before I go to bed at night like a supplement? or just use it for emergencies, don't want to upset him!

Hes been fine as I feed him regularly and also syringe him honey and milk everytime anyway. Hopefully I'm not overfeeding him, don't want him ending up as a podge.


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## ChiMama5 (Jun 29, 2012)

heartagram said:


> The nutrical arrived today, should I give him some before breakfast then some before I go to bed at night like a supplement? or just use it for emergencies, don't want to upset him!
> 
> Hes been fine as I feed him regularly and also syringe him honey and milk everytime anyway. Hopefully I'm not overfeeding him, don't want him ending up as a podge.



I gave it to my pups right before breakfast & again in the evening right before dinner. Just a fingertip full. That's just how I did it. Always with food though. Others may have different advice. Don't worry - mine didn't end up gaining weight from it.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

Yeah I gave him a little tiny bit this morning, god it stinks!

I also decided to worm him today rather than monday, so I could keep a closer eye on him. He is very brave!

Few snaps from today _ probably going to get sick of us ! hha
He is changing everyday and getting stronger, bouncing around now haha.
I do hope his eyes stay blue, they're so pretty *_*


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## ChiMama5 (Jun 29, 2012)

He is sooo cute & sooo serious! The looks on his face just make me laugh! With his pigmentation I would not be surprised at all if his eyes stay blue. What a heartbreaker ... And yes the Nutrical stinks & I don't like the stickiness either. Blech. But I do like what it does for our puppies.


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## momofmany (Apr 23, 2012)

That is a very young pup I got Charlie at 7.5 weeks and I had to feed him every 2 or 3 hours even through the night he was only 12 oz when I got him and he couldn't eat enough to hold him for any length of time so I would say feed him lots of small meals often and defiantly mix it with a good puppy formula. Also get rid of those fleas bath him good and talk to the vet to find out what else you can do. Fleas can kill a puppy every time they bite the take blood from him and if he's not getting enough to eat he can not replace the blood fast enough. Get him into the vet as soon as you can and make sure you feed him good.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

momofmany said:


> That is a very young pup I got Charlie at 7.5 weeks and I had to feed him every 2 or 3 hours even through the night he was only 12 oz when I got him and he couldn't eat enough to hold him for any length of time so I would say feed him lots of small meals often and defiantly mix it with a good puppy formula. Also get rid of those fleas bath him good and talk to the vet to find out what else you can do. Fleas can kill a puppy every time they bite the take blood from him and if he's not getting enough to eat he can not replace the blood fast enough. Get him into the vet as soon as you can and make sure you feed him good.


In earlier posts, already said he has already been to the vet and theres no fleas left on him, I got them all off, as far as I can see nyway! he wasn't like infested or anything thankfully, just some strays.

He is eating well.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Oh my goodness, Heart!!! I have to tell you, I just don't have words for how adorable he is!!! He makes me want one!!! And I have a pretty strong resistance to temptation to get a new baby, but he is KILLING ME !!!!!


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

Please be sure he eats something after the Nutrical if you really want to give it. It really isn't necessary. But if you feel more secure, please, especially before bedtime, give it and a snack so he doesn't get a sugar crash.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

OMG look at him go, what a little champ - I wish any one of mine ate with such gusto!

The nutrical/gel (still haven't established if they're identical product just different names in different countries) is a great source of vitamins and he'll pee out/pass any excess. I gave it to mine a couple of times a day just to boost their vitamin intake and keep their interest in food up.


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

Would you say a teaspoon of food each meal, is enough or too much? not entirely sure how much I should be feeding really 
Think I may have over done it today though as this evening his stools have been formed but very soft and smelly and it looked like he was straining a little bit, perhaps too much food or could be because he was wormed today? he seems okay in his self.

This is the nutri-cal I ordered
Don't know if its the same one or not :love2:

Nutri Cal Caloric Supplement 120g Tube - £6.10


















You can really see in that picture his little white paws!


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## chichi_lady (Feb 10, 2012)

Hi Heartagram - I take it Noah is listening to lots of HIM! Your Noah looks very similar to my Romeo and he has to listen to a lot of HIM - he's a right little rock pup! Although Paco my big chi loves dance music!!! ... Anyway sooooo glad to see Noah doing so, so well!  Especially adorable cos he reminds me of my little Romeo as a little one! Noah is one of the cutest chis I've ever seen!  Romeo used to remind me of a mini arctic fox - but now I just call him Piglet!!!! ;-) 

xxx


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

heartagram said:


> Would you say a teaspoon of food each meal, is enough or too much? not entirely sure how much I should be feeding really
> Think I may have over done it today though as this evening his stools have been formed but very soft and smelly and it looked like he was straining a little bit, perhaps too much food or could be because he was wormed today? he seems okay in his self.
> 
> This is the nutri-cal I ordered
> ...


Ah ha, your NutriCal seems to be a lot different to our NutriGel - yours seems to focus on energy calories, whilst ours is a high dose vitamin concentrate so I'm not sure that I would be giving too much of it if he's eating and drinking well.

As to amount of food you SHOULD be giving = so long as everything that goes into his mouth is super high quality & good for him, I personally would let him eat until he's done, seeing he's got such a great appetite - mine can take all damn day to eat breakfast and even with the take it away after 15 mins training, they still aren't hungry at dinner time so I pretty much free feed these days. When they were really little, I always left out the best kibbles for them to graze on but these days steer well clear of them because I really don't like kibble at all, nothing but a teeth destroyer imo (because of the way it goes gooey & sticks to them like s___ to a blanket).


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## heartagram (Aug 4, 2012)

D'aww thankyou chichilady, he is rather cute !! ♥ yes he has been subjected to some of HIM hahaha but mostly radio lately! But yay for Chihuahua Owner HIM fans 8D !!

AussieLass - okay, I'll just leave it nutri-cal for emergencies and treats! as he seems to rather like it, unfortunate for me as its horrible smelly stuff :S

I currently mash and water down the Orijen but I've also been giving him a wet puppy food which I picked up in the super market called "Lily's kitchen" do not know if you're familiar with it, but appears to have very good reviews, it's made out of organic ingrediants and it contains no nasties at all. Looks actually tasty for dog food LOL you can see the meat and veg in it and he loves it.
So I'll probably continue to buy that as well, it is expensive but he is so small soo.

Natural and Organic Dog Food and Cat Food | Lily's Kitchen
Lily's Kitchen Organic Trial Box for Dogs - Review - I'd Want Gold & Diamonds For That Price


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

Excellent, that's all going really well for you then, what I'd give for just one of my dogs to "love" any type of food. The most I can say is they "like" raw meaty bones.

You may find that the expensive can of wet food goes off before you get to use it all. You can put some into individual ziplock bags and freeze it so it doesn't all go off. 

I found a USA brand tin over here the other day, I can't remember the brand, it was $10 per small tin, I nearly died, that is just unbelievable. Seems everyone likes to get stuck into the Aussies pricewise, ZiwiPeak, the USA Brands etc. We need one of our own to save us! 

If you ever have occasion to feed a brand from overseas, always check out whether or not it was irradiated by your customs before entering the country (they do it to kill pathogens, bugs, viruses, parasites etc) - that procedure creates some really evil free radicals or whatever they're called & we had one fabulous USA brand that ended up killing a whole heap of pets over here (Orijen) but ONLY because it was irradiated, if it hadn't been, it was perfectly safe but our idiot customs people irradiated it so darn high it was off the graph and they ended up recalling both the cat & dog varieties which was a tragedy for us because of our Govt's stupidity. Irradiation is really dangerous whe done at high levels, stay well away from it for people and animals.


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