# Are you sure you have pure breed Chi?



## WeightGain100 (Nov 29, 2005)

Hi guys,
Just would like to know something.

There is many ppl put up they chi's picture on this forum, but I notice some of them is not pure breed(the APPLE HEAD) Are your begin cheated? 
Some look like mini-pin + Chi! I am very sure that is not pure breed....
Espeically the face is very important, is a sign of a pure breed. Just concern....


WeightGain100


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## LadyBelle1 (Sep 10, 2005)

Ok first I don't quite understand what you are asking? Are you saying applehead chi's are not pure bred? Or are you saying dearheads are not? I think you should know that when you breed 2 animals you are never going to get an exact duplicate of the parents. Just because 2 chi's don't have the same head or body shape does not mean it is not pure blood. Some chi's are just not standard. It does not mean that they are not chi's. I have 2 AKC registered appleheads that are to the standard. And my mom and dad have deerhead chi's that are AKC registered but they do not fit the standard but that does not make them any less chi than mine. I am just not understanding what you are asking exactly?


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## Mimi (Jul 28, 2005)

Im kind of lost on this question to..??


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## Angelab (Nov 26, 2005)

Well you can't tell pure bred by the apple/deer head thing. They come in both head shapes.

My little Socrates is definitely not a purebred, I have always said he's mixed he's chi/doxie and carries alot of doxie traits strongly.

We're just happy that mixes are welcomed on this forum too. :wave:


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## WeightGain100 (Nov 29, 2005)

Sorry for my poor english... I am thousand miles away from yours..thousands..

I mean dearhead is not pure chi. I can't understand why the AKC allow for registration. :wink: 

I agreed we can;t expect to get the same quality of 'faces' with the parent, but the STANDARD of applehead must be there. (This is just my personal opinion, doesn't mean to condenm about the breed or owner who have dearhead chi)

:wave: 
WeightGain100


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## BonnieChi (Aug 12, 2005)

if chi's don't completely conform to the breed standard...that doesn't necessarily mean they're not full chis. you could breed two champions and get a deerhead.


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## Chihuahua Head (Sep 2, 2005)

I think somebody is just trying to get us all stirred up. 


We all know a chi is a chi is a chi, whether it fits the standard or not. We all love our babies whether or not they look "perfect". Who cares what they look like as long as they are loved?? :tongue: How can we be cheated by snuggle bunnies anyway??

Post 500 more times, and then ask this question again. 8)


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## Courtney (Jun 2, 2005)

Deerheads are just as much full blood Chi as Appleheads!


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## my3angels (Apr 15, 2004)

Dont let this member get you guys all upset. I know its taking a lot for me not to say something. :x 

We all know that just because your chi doesnt have show-quality features doesnt make them any less chi :roll: . Maybe this member doesnt realize that chihuahua's use to have narrower heads, longer muzzle, leggier...and bigger then the AKC standard chi today. I am sure those traits from waaaay back when are still in lines and still come out. 

We also all know that in a litter you can have "pet-quality" chi's...the ones that are a little bigger, have a smaller shaped head, etc....EVERY breed has their "pet-quality" pups...doesnt make them any less the breed they are.

I really believe this member is trying to get us upset...but we know better then to believe what this person is saying :wink:


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## Mimi (Jul 28, 2005)

> I mean dearhead is not pure chi. I can't understand why the AKC allow for registration.


I never heard this,is it true.Not that it matters,i love my little BooBoo enyway.


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## my3angels (Apr 15, 2004)

No it isnt true. Just because your chi doesnt have all the show qualities doesnt mean its any less of a chihuahua. Just look at Tequila. She came from a breeder (girl who previously owned her got her from a breeder) Tequila had AKC papers...was sold as "pet-quality" because her head shape and muzzle were not show quality. She also ended up being 7lbs...a pound too big for standard AKC qualities. 

Like I said every breed has it's "pet-quality" pups...just because our pups dont have perfect features doesnt make them any less chihuahua.


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## dolly'sgrandma (Nov 8, 2005)

We were TOLD Dolly was a purebred by the lady who was ditching her, but she is a definite deerhead and "giant" at almost five pounds (five mos)...so I did wonder at times. Then I read all the wonderful quirky qualities of a chi (esp. on this site) and I KNOW I've got an adorable little chihuahua! That personality counts more than the shape of the head or the perfection of the bloodlines. So sweet, so smart, so perfect!


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## Angelab (Nov 26, 2005)

It appears that this guy believes that only those chi's that meet the standard should be allowed AKC papers. AKC papers only testify to the bloodline of the dog not how well it meets the standard. I think anyway...I could be way off on this subject though


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## Mimi (Jul 28, 2005)

Mine has all the papers and goodies that came with him but all i have to do is look at this loving little face to know all i need to.


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

its just like EVERY other breed, some of the puppies are NOT show quality, some dont even look like the breed there supposed to be...it doesnt mean there not pure, it just means there not to the breed standard...these none standard qualities usually come from uneducated breeding, a person will breed a chihuahua thats not quite standard to another chihuahua thats not quite standard, and this breeding will usually result in puppies that have emphasised "faults"
they ARE regiterable because there parents were registered and their parents were registerd as were theres and so on and so forth. however these usually come with limited registration, and sold as pet quality.

just as with any breed....the AKC doesnt register mixed breeds, the puppies parents must be registerd as must theres and theres and theres...

i hope this explains it...

however i do think that breeders shouldnt breed these faults into dogs...
unfortunatly with tinkerbell and the taco bell dog these "deer type" chihuahuas became popular (just like the "BAD WORD") and some breedrs started breeding these none standard chis and selling them for more...this i dont agree with, i belive a breeder shoudl breed only to improve the breed by using good breeding stock that are to standard.

its just like having a greatdane thats smaller than standard, or an enlgish cockerspaniel with a short square muzzle, or an american cockerspaniel with a longer muzzle, or any dog born with a partial tail, or a staffy whos too big...all these dogs are still pure bred...just not perfect examples of the breed and should be neutered/spayed as to not continue these faults into the blood line.

the AKC chihuahua standard calls for the apple domes head at a weight of 2-6 lbs...however evidence shows that the origional chihuahua ancestors were about 10lbs, all medium haired, had the longer legs and longer muzzle with less domed head. 
then selective breeding programs occured, people bred 2 and a natural mutation appeared in a few litters, those pups were bred increasing that mutation...thats how they got long haired pups, they bred the pups with the longest hair together over years and eventually long hair...this is the same for muzzle lengh, head shape weight build...all of it is selective breeding...

hope this sheds a little more light on the situation rather than just saying "no your wrong"

oh and also for your knowledge, there ARE mixed breed chis on this board as well as standard and none standard chis...there are registered chis and none registered chis, there are breeding chis and pet chis...but most of all these babies have chi in them some way shape or form be it a little or the whole dog...
noone here is saying the poeple with the deerheaded shoudl go try and show their babies...because they know theyd never win a best of breed, however it doesnt make them any les chi or any less loved!


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## Angelab (Nov 26, 2005)

Foxywench you are so knowlegeable abut the animals. I love reading your posts. I learn new things all the time from them.


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## WeightGain100 (Nov 29, 2005)

Ow..my... I doesn't mean to create any disaster  

Well, as I said 'It is my Personal opinion, I didnt mean to condenm any owner.' I just 'would like to know' dearheard and applehead are they difference... Ladies your are a bit sensitive.... 

We all dog lover here, which of you will say if the Chi you own right now is not a pure breed and you would like to give it up? No one right? Cause we all love dog, and espeically Chihuahua.

Anyway, if anyone feel that I have stir your anger or upset you emotionally, I am apology.

:wave: [/i]


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

I'll admit it. I think Bijou is actually a 5 lb. border collie :wink: ! She is not AKC anything and you can call her anything you want, see if I care. But her breeder and I call her a long-coat Chi.


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

Haha. Madison is a 5lb German Shepherd; you caught me. He has a dome shaped head...but his snout is a little bit longer than standard. Oh poo. Both of his parents were chihuahuas... but I guess I should find him a new home and take his picture off of my signature. I guess that only Rylie belongs on this board because she has an apple head.


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

foxywench said:


> its just like EVERY other breed, some of the puppies are NOT show quality, some dont even look like the breed there supposed to be...it doesnt mean there not pure, it just means there not to the breed standard...these none standard qualities usually come from uneducated breeding, a person will breed a chihuahua thats not quite standard to another chihuahua thats not quite standard, and this breeding will usually result in puppies that have emphasised "faults"
> they ARE regiterable because there parents were registered and their parents were registerd as were theres and so on and so forth. however these usually come with limited registration, and sold as pet quality.
> 
> just as with any breed....the AKC doesnt register mixed breeds, the puppies parents must be registerd as must theres and theres and theres...
> ...



*
Wow, excellent post.*
Very controlled, I am amazed! 

I think some of the other ladies jumped on her like a leopard hunts meat 

I think ya'll should follow her example :lol:


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## LadyBelle1 (Sep 10, 2005)

Are you saying that I jumped down her throat???? If so I do not think I did I explained to her what I thought her post was asking. And I even told her I didn't quite undrstand what she was asking.


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

LadyBelle1 said:


> Are you saying that I jumped down her throat???? If so I do not think I did I explained to her what I thought her post was asking. And I even told her I didn't quite undrstand what she was asking.



Chillax.. I didn't mean anyone specifically, i thought you were rather sivilized actually. I just thought when i read everything.. it was like..

WHOA.. Ease up on the poor girl ! Lol


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## LadyBelle1 (Sep 10, 2005)

lol I thought her post could be taken 2 ways. So I just tried to be very blunt about the answer I gave without trying to offend her. I knew a lot of people would get upset over this because, it did look to me like she was saying any chi that was not apple head was a mix. But like she said her english is not too good so she did not mean to upset anyone.


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## [email protected] (May 10, 2004)

oh dear, yet another row among members! it's so sad when this happens! Maybe the thing to do, is ignore the posts you dont agree with? that way, if we all ignore people who seem to think our chihuahuas are sub standard coz they dont meet the standard the person will realise that this is a forum for ALL chihuahuas, ALL shapes and sizes etc.


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## lecohen (Feb 13, 2005)

I think part of her query was do any of us have a x that we have been duped into thinking was full chi...??? I think that is a fair question.

Well, Scruffy is a x and was sold as one :lol:


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## WeightGain100 (Nov 29, 2005)

BTW, I am a HE not a SHE...


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## lacedolphin (Nov 20, 2005)

Question??!! Is Pharaoh a deerhead or applehead??

As far as show/pet quality, HA! They would throw him out at the door!!! :lol: My boy is CKC reg. and I have seen both parents and they are definatly chis. We can't figure out where in his linage his eyes came from though. For the ones who do not know, my chi has golden/light colored eyes!  I'm not sure if he is classified as blonde or not by AKC standards, but between his pink nose, yellow eyes, and long legs, they would throw him out and lock the door! lmao :lol: But get near me when I'm holding him and you'll find out he is allll chi!


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## Boogaloo (Mar 27, 2004)

WeightGain100 said:


> I just 'would like to know' dearheard and applehead are they difference...


There are no differences between deerhead and applehead Chihuahuas in terms of personality. They are both loving, loyal, funny little dogs. 

I have read somewhere that Chihuahuas with deerheads (longer muzzle, less bulgy eyes) are created as a result of poor breeding or even inbreeding. That would mean they are still 100% Chihuahua - just somewhere down the line, two dogs bred that probably shouldn't have. 

That being said, there is a definite movement in the USA to intentionally breed this style of Chihuahua in the belief that it represents the original Mexican dog. 

Most of us here on the board own a Chihuahua for its personality, not for its AKC-standard beauty. So if my dogs have longer muzzles than they really should, and are bigger than the AKC would want --- that's OK by me.


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## Kurrazie (Oct 12, 2004)

WeightGain100 said:


> BTW, I am a HE not a SHE...



SORRY  :lol:


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

Angelab said:


> Foxywench you are so knowlegeable abut the animals. I love reading your posts. I learn new things all the time from them.


thank you, ive done alot of work with arious animlas domesticated and wild and hear so many people who assume the worste...i dont try to lecture i try to educate
and thanks to Kurrazie.

im glad people get to learn from at least some of my posts.


as for the question by weitgain100, between the two head types theres realy no difference in personality or at least no more difference than there is betwen 2 chis of the same head type...
you are very right, there is noone here that would dump there chis because there not pure or not to standard, and thats whats great and terrible about this board, its a wonderfull place to talk to people who love their dogs , gain more knowledge about the breed and see people other than ourselves that are crazy about our dogs...but the bad...because we love our dogs so much sometimes we can be a little defensive about the breed, especially since we do have ALOT of people uninformed about the breed who do try and lecture us about our "babies"
id suggest if your actually interested in the breed and learning more and socilizing that you actually go into the new member borad and actually introduce yourself better, that way people will be a little mor eapt to not jump to the conclusion that youve just come here to start trouble...which does happen.


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## iluvmyvikin (Aug 24, 2005)

My beenie is WAAAY out of standard..
He's over 10+ and has the light eyes etc.. 
My puppy Freia is 4 months old and 8+ pounds! :shock: She definately looks like a deerhead with floppy ears 
I think a lot of the "non-standard" chis are much cuter than most i see in the shows  
But I think that's what makes the Chihuahua such a great breed- there's one for everyone! Many different colors, sizes, shapes, etc 

BTW_ Where are you from?


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## littleweed (Nov 21, 2005)

I wanna jump in for a second.... I am still learning.  
So some people think that because a chi is deerhead it shouldn't be bred any further... And its not in the standard.
Here's where I get kinda confused... :dontknow: If the original Chi's were more simiilar to the deerhead chi's of our time now, why is it that the AKC only accepts dome/appleheads? I mean, isn't the idea to preserve the authenticity of the breed, not change it? Obviously I could be way off, cuz I have absolutely NO experience with show dogs. Maybe someone can help me out on this one? 
Personally, I get kinda annoyed when people see my baby and insinuate that he's not a chi, when I know he is. They say, but his ears are floppy, or his nose is too long...blah blah blah... But that's my own deal...Hehehe. I am an overprotective mom.


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## lecohen (Feb 13, 2005)

Hi Littleweed...as far as i have understood, the AKC and KC do register both head shapes. The only thing is that the deer head type are not within breed / showing standard.

:wave:


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## Jayne (Jul 8, 2005)

gembabes wrote


> oh dear, yet another row among members! it's so sad when this happens! Maybe the thing to do, is ignore the posts you dont agree with? that way, if we all ignore people who seem to think our chihuahuas are sub standard coz they dont meet the standard the person will realise that this is a forum for ALL chihuahuas, ALL shapes and sizes etc


Totally agree , really well said . Normally i stay out of these posts as they are really not worth answering but gembabes has hit the nail on the head here!


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

Well, I was just joking. I am not upset at all. My girl is not AKC and I did not pay an "AKC price" for her either. I've had more people tell me she looks like a papillon than I have had say she's Chi. However, I KNOW she's a Chi because paps don't come colored like that, I've seen the parents, and I have two other long-haired Chi's in the family and she is just like them. But if someone else wants to call her something else, I could care less. She's just my pet and I don't plan on breeding her.


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

I was joking as well. I do not care if Madison fits in the AKC standards. I love him to death  

Bijon is so gorgeous. I love her coloring.

Rylie is registered, and a gorgeous little girl. I love her and Maddie the same.

I guess that Weightgain was just trying to make sure that we as chi owners we sure that we weren't being ripped off. Maybe they were not aware that this board welcomes all kinds of chis


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## Vala (Jul 8, 2004)

:wink: I agree that maybe we should ignore posts like this until we know more of the member...if we knew more background on that person the post wouldn't read as bad as it reads now...good english or not...and it would prevent members from misreading each other...since sometimes when people sign up here they are not even interested in chihuahuas but like to make fun of people that own them or have grudges against a given member...so...

Hi, weightgain100! Please post some pics of your chi, where are you from? Welcome to Chi People. :wave:


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## Kristin (Nov 12, 2004)

Bijou- if you lived closer to me you would have to keep an eye on her, cause I'd puppy nap her! lol She's too cute!!  Just had to say it  :lol:  

My little Boss Hogg is AKC registerable and Lina is CKC registerable but none are registered and I could care less about it. Both are deerheads too. I think there are probably a few people on here that were sold chi's that they thought were purebred that were in fact not. I can't remember any right now though :roll:. But, I don't think any of us really care. Like someone else already said, we love our babies and the only thing we need to know is that they're the perfect puppy for us . And why would you think that DeerHeads shouldn't be registered with AKC?? That just doesn't make any sence to me at all.


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## WeightGain100 (Nov 29, 2005)

:roll: Hi ladies,
... It been a CLASS ROOM for me after i posted this topic, I will not want to explain anything anymore about who ever feel that I am create disaster.

Well, I am an old user in this forum as well, it just something happen I have to give away my Chi- Miky. A lovely dog. Please dont not as why... 

I am re-register as new user because I dont know where to start from as a Miky owner, and I can't even have him more then 6 months.

Maybe some of the 'Oldest' user can remember some of the pictures, I said maybe...

http://www.pbase.com/weew21/miky

I have tried to search on some of the pictures I have posted here before, but ALL GONE!

I have also posted another topic 2 weeks ago about shuold I having 2 or 1 chi, cos I am going to move to a landed property in the day to come, it just don't know WHEN! sigh...

I still remember the day I have that tiny dog, such a feeling like "ALIEN" at home! cos he is so small, i can just put him into the bowl/sink to bath him. And he is a smart boy. He work with me at home.

I live in a country that NEVER see chihuahua in deer head that be able to sell in the market or pet shop or breeder. All the head appereance is "applehead". That's why make me wondering why some of yours is deerhead! I just wish everyone of us get every cents we paid for. :wink:


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## KB (Apr 13, 2004)

i rememebr you.............why did u have to get rid if Miky?


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

WeightGain100 said:


> I live in a country that NEVER see chihuahua in deer head that be able to sell in the market or pet shop or breeder. All the head appereance is "applehead". That's why make me wondering why some of yours is deerhead! I just wish everyone of us get every cents we paid for. :wink:


Hi, 

I have not heard of "deerhead" Chihuahuas here in Nebraska either (USA). I had not heard of that until I got on Chihuahua people. But I do believe that a Chihuahua can still be a purebred but not look exactly like the applehead Chi's. Not all dogs in the same litter look alike. Even if they all had the same father. In my Bijou's litter there was another female who was HUGE :shock: . I bet that girl ends up to be 10 lbs. And Bijou is only 5 lbs. That is just one example of a physical difference that can happen in the same litter even.

Also, I have noticed that in different parts of the world that some of the same breeds of animals we have here look different from ours. I looked at the Burmese cat and the Abyssinian cat. The cats in the UK do NOT look like the Burmese and Abys we have here. They are pretty in the UK and pretty here but do not look the same. But most of the ones in the US look like others in the US and the ones in the UK pretty much all look similar. So, who knows.

Sorry about your Miky.


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

pinkprincess21 said:


> Bijou- if you lived closer to me you would have to keep an eye on her, cause I'd puppy nap her! lol She's too cute!!  Just had to say it  :lol:


Yeah, and I'd find her back in my yard the very next day! She's such a stinker you wouldn't keep her long!! Just kidding. She's a brat but a VERY fun dog to have. 

Thanks!


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## ~Jessie~ (Oct 30, 2005)

How old is Bijou in your siggy pics? She is such a cutie; I'd kidnap her too


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

I think she was 12 weeks old then. She is 6 months old now and I need to post more pics of her but I am too lazy to resize them! 

Thanks for asking about her!
Deb


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## Kelly (Jun 30, 2004)

I actually remember Miky.


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## Ory&C (Mar 20, 2005)

Just noticed this post myself....... I think many things are started because english is not WeightGain100's first language. he was just trying to ask a question and got it all wrong :wink: . I can relate, because I come from a country where english is not an official language.
WeightGain100 where do you come from? :wave: 

As for different types of Chis....... they all are Chihuahuas, the only difference is that some are of breeding quality and some should be kept only as pets...... but that's something we all know anyway. :wink:


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## WeightGain100 (Nov 29, 2005)

Well, I am from Asia, Malaysia. I am going to have 2 Chi once I move to a landed property, and I planning to get those without register and still pure breed.(Save cost....) :roll:


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## AEROMarley1983 (Sep 12, 2005)

My friend has a deer head, and I'm pretty sure he has papers. Why would you say they aren't AKC or pure bred? And even if that WERE true, why would you want to stir up a bunch of stuff?


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## iluvmyvikin (Aug 24, 2005)

as someone said before, it seems he's making sure we're not being fooled or ripped off for our pups..
some people try to pass off another breed as a chihuahua or even a mixed chihuahua as a pure one and charge an insane amount of money for it.


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## <3 Sarah <3 (Nov 1, 2005)

Max IS Purebred even if he doesn't look it... we have all his papers for proof


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## WeightGain100 (Nov 29, 2005)

thanks luvnmydeerhd for your kind explaination toward those that FEEL STIR UP! I wish ppl will read the ENTIRE post before they reply... 8)


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## Jen (Sep 13, 2005)

Teddy is but if he wasn't it wouldn't matter to me I'd love him just the same.


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## Sandra1961 (Oct 14, 2005)

Teddy's mom said:


> Teddy is but if he wasn't it wouldn't matter to me I'd love him just the same.


  I bet that applies to every single chihuahua owner


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