# Is my Chi a Chi?!!



## Pixie Luna (Jan 11, 2011)

When we saw Luna we thought she had quite a big nose but understand theres so many different looking Chi's/heads etc.
A friend recently commented that Luna 'doesnt look like a Chihuahua'... and then today the Vet upon first seeing Luna said 'theres some Chihuahua in her isnt there'? I said shes full Chihuahua?! He seemed to think she was part Jack Russell...

Lunas breeder HAD a Jack Russell - see my paranoia? 
But when I asked to see Luna's mother/father the mother Chi did have a long nose and was bigger than the father.
I have got her 5 gen pedigree (albeit the mother wasnt KC and so neither is Luna) 

Pixie at 8 months was weighed in at the vets today as 1.8kg...Luna 1.3kg and shes only 10 weeks old. Her paws also seem large, her eyes dont seem Chihuahua like big and her head is practically Pixies size already. But again, could this just be Chi size and head variations!? (Lunas meant to be an applehead)

Ive tried to attach some photos of her profile etc, please let me know what you guys think - is she full Chi??


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## tonya_bella (Mar 30, 2011)

hiya i cant answer your question,im nno expert on chis yet lol..i just wanted to say i too have a 10week old girl she went the vets today for her 2nd injection she was weighed at 0.9kg and i was thinking she was on the big side,shes bigger than my other girl was at thats age,luna is realyy cute btw so is your other x


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

It's going to be hard to tell at this age because she isn't bred to the standard. She could end up looking more chi, or she could end up looking mixed. The other dog in the photo is much closer to the standard and looks very much like a chi. Luna could certainly be a chi, just not bred to the standard. And yes, I think she will end up quite a bit bigger than your other dog. 

It just comes down to your feelings and what you want. Will you be happy with her? Or will you always question her heritage and wish she were something different? If so, then it's best to pass on her now and look for a reputable breeder and buy the dog you really want.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Your babies are sweet! She could be a full chi, but she does look a bit JRT just from the pics. 
In terms of size, that can vary as well. There are a few here who had BIG puppies who ended up small to average. They just did not gain as much after they were a bit larger. 
My girls have gained a bit more steadily with a couple of months where they held their weight. They are now 9.5 and 10 months and weigh 3.75 pounds, or 1.7 kgs. so they are close to Pixie's age and size.


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## Pixie Luna (Jan 11, 2011)

I would be very upset if she doesnt look like a Chi as I will feel ive been lied to...and that would be a dispicable thing to do to someone. 
We searched what seemed like hundreds of adverts to find the puppy we wanted, we saw plenty of JRT crossed with Chis that were much cheaper - but we didnt want a cross, so to have someone lie would be terrible?
We drove a long way and paid a lot for her - I did ask the breeder (as the puppys haddnt sold) if she would knock some money off for us but she refused, then the day after we bought Luna she reduced her last 2 puppies by £150!
I remember seeing Lunas 'brother' and he looked a lot like a Chi his nose was really short which made me put this paranoia to the back of my mind..

The breeder gave me the 5 gen history and I asked to see Lunas mother/father - I said how big her mother was and how she had a much larger nose, ie I gave the breeder had plenty of chance to fess up if there was any JRT in the history.. Before we drove all that way I even said I wanted a small Chi as my other is 3lb she said she imagined Luna to be 4lb max judging by her parents. Jeez I hope im just paranoid 

This is what the advert read;
_Beautiful lovely pup looking for 5* pet home. Mother a smooth coated fawn chihuahua (pedigree but not kc reg). Dad a KC Reg smooth coated fawn with white trim Chihuahua. Both parents weigh 4lbs and have brilliant temperaments and are family pets. Comes with five generation pedigree (not kc reg) including 19 champions in it. _


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## Amanda Kennedy (Nov 5, 2008)

i feel for you, i was duped years ago with a male chi
who ended up being a cross jrt. he gew huge too,
we ended up passing him on as there was huge issues with him, im sure older member will
remember, papers mean nothing here or the uk, as abreeder can put what parents they like on the forms, if you paid a small fortune for luna i would do a dna and confront the breeder to see if you can recoup something back. if it comes back that there is jrt there.


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## Amanda Kennedy (Nov 5, 2008)

this is carlos, he grew to 10lbs


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## Pixie Luna (Jan 11, 2011)

Thats awful, how can people lie when dealing with an animal.
I did think that with the 5 gen pedigree - how do I know this is genuine.

But Pixie wasnt KC reg and a lot of Chi's dont seem to be due to their mother being short haired, father long haired etc?? So I thought id take that chance, maybe buying KC reg is safer for peace of mind though.. (How does the KC obtain proof of line?)

I will look into the DNA testing thanks, I never knew about that. Id want the proof more to confront the breeder than for any refund as I doubt she'd do that.

Ive looked at so many photos today comparnig Luna's profile, some pedigree Chi's do look just like her, obviously not standard perfect but they still remain small and looking like a Chi...I do hope so. 
(This is all the vet's fault if he haddnt have said anything I wouldnt have got paranoid )


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## Angel1210 (Mar 14, 2011)

Well no matter what Luna is, she is definitely very very cute!! But I understand about buying a good breed with papers and all and then not getting what you thought you were buying! I have a gorgeous, extremely sweet golden that my son bought from a pet store with AKC papers. For me, papers don't mean much. She is 7 years old, never intended for show or breeding, so papers to me are useless. Same with my chi. I did not intend on breeding or showing, so as long as he had a good temperament, I'm fine. I found my chi on craigs list from a couple nearby that had 2 chis and they had 2 pups!! And at 8 months he is turning out to be a good boy. He is also, much more receptive to training now!

Good luck with her! I think she is very cute!


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm going to say the breeder was trying real hard to get you to buy her. Some breeders will say anything to get a sale. Sad but true! Number one--she isn't apple head. Chances are she will never be an apple head. Doesn't mean she's not full Chi. How did the parents look in size comparison to Pixie? 

Already your pup is charting 6.5-7lbs. Being 4lbs very doubtfully will happen. Luna could end up being 6lbs--or even possibly bigger than 7lbs. Still a small dog no less but not 4lbs. My smallest adult is 4.5lbs & my biggest is 8lbs. They can play just fine & physically there isn't a huge difference in size but definitely a noticeable one.

No matter what you got duped. Whether your Chi is part JRT or not...it is not a Chi that will be apple head or 4lbs (chances are). To me, it looks very possible that your pup is a Chi...just not one bred to standard. Could be a JRT mix too--nobody will know unless you do a DNA test. Saying that...there is no doubt she stole your heart & will most definitely be a great pet. That is the #1 thing. Sometimes we have to learn the hard way. Next time you'll know what to look for & not to trust people so much, as sad as it is we have to worry about that. 

When looking at pups, I'd ask to see parents & grandparents & if you like the looks of them all--chances are you'll like the look of your pup grown.  Size is never a set thing though--even small pups can end up big & bigger pups can end up smaller. It's a toss up in the size department unless your breeder knows the history of their lines VERY well....


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## Rose of Love (Dec 1, 2010)

The weight is not everything, coco is 11 months and she is extremly tiny and is 2.8kg but you can get some chihuahuas are quite large but lanky and can be very light.
But looking at her she is MAYBE a JRT cross but not sure as she may be just a chihuahua but not to standart, anyway she is beautiful.


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## Pixie Luna (Jan 11, 2011)

The father was much smaller than the mother and he had a real appledome head and short nose - which Lunas brother seemed to have, the mother a long nose but still thin/pointy, and her body was quite long/big - yes certainly much bigger than Pixie.

Which of yours is 8lbs MChis?

We contacted quite a few adverts and after getting photos of the puppies parents etc quite a few seemed to have large noses/bigger bodies which makes them look more JRT like and we turned them all down. However none of those adverts stated crosses etc.

(It makes me question if this possible mix is perhaps why Luna was such a shockingly big cryer compared to Pixie etc and why we thought her legs/walking was set different also..)
I suppose only time will tell


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## Amanda Kennedy (Nov 5, 2008)

bad breeders can show you any 2 dogs and say they are the parents esp if the have a few dogs, we found out later the breeder we bougt carlos off was doing this because he didnt know who the pups father was as he had jrts also. i cant think of any way round this.as heather says it does prepare you for the next time.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

If the littermate brother looked more Chi it could be that she showed you a pup that was not from the same litter or the JRT tied with the mom as well. 

Did you sign a contract? If not then you will probably just have to cut your losses. If you love Luna that is all that matters anyways. Most breeders even if a contract has been signed will insist on taking the puppy back and for the most part owners are already in love with them and would never give it back so the contracts can be useless at times. Big or small, I think she is a doll!


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## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

She does have characteristics of a JRT but to be fair she could just be bred lesserto the standard

Everyones right im afraid

Paperwork (i.e KC Documents) dont mean anything. They can easily be forged or different papers usedfor different dogs

Anyone can show different parents "as the puppies parents" 
Anyone can mix litters i.e. if they have JRt crosses they can easily put one in a litter of purebreds to sell it

If you didnt sign a contract theres not much you can do. 

DNA tests can help if you can get proof, that backs up your suspicions of her being a cross bred.

But if youre happy with her then i wouldnt worry

I read that advert myself and saw her advertised, didnt think much of the litter myself. 

I know im gabbling now. But its your choice to how you feel about her to how you proceed


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## 1234 (May 29, 2011)

Hello

Your pup is very cute!! 

Did you see the jack russell the breeder had?

Also can you see chihuahua characteristics in her? like her body shape, the way she stands, how her tail is and how she walks etc.


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

Pixie UK said:


> The father was much smaller than the mother and he had a real appledome head and short nose - which Lunas brother seemed to have, the mother a long nose but still thin/pointy, and her body was quite long/big - yes certainly much bigger than Pixie.
> 
> Which of yours is 8lbs MChis?
> 
> ...


Well, different puppies will act differently. I've had easy crate trainers & those who pooped & ate it every single time of being crated. Those who cried way more than others, etc. It's just different temperments. 

So the breeder stated both mom & dad were 4lbs but mom was obviously bigger than dad. Should have been a huge red flag! The breeder we got Lulu from has 2 sisters she got from a show breeder. One is SC & one is LC. One is small & the other a bit bigger. The bigger one has semi floppy ears (from her big ears that are weighted down from fringe) & the other not. They look totally different but are litter mates & even from a decent breeder. So the fact that 2 different looking pups came from the same litter isn't surprising at all. Saying that...they could have been from 2 different litters there is no telling.

Anyway, Milo is my 8 pounder. Totally bred out of standard in more ways than one. :lol: His mom was known to have some bigger off spring & some smaller. We knew he was going to be a big as he was almost 7lbs at 18wks when we brought him home. BUT he was also way over weight at the time. His highest weight was 11lbs--8lbs is a bit on the thinner side. But anything above 8.5lbs he starts looking chunky again. LOL


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## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

I think she is a chi. Not all chi's are going to look exactly like what they should. There are tons of big chi's out there that ARE chi's. This comes from irresponsible breeding, but it doesn't mean she's not still a sweetheart and that you love her any less.


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## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Also I do agree she is not applehead. And her and her brother could be full siblings and just look totally different. When show people breed to get more show dogs only one or none of the pups from a litter turn out show worthy. Also a lot of breeders breed a very small correct male, to a large incorrect female. I kindof know why they do it, so the girl can carry more babies so they think. But this isn't really true. If you look on some breeders websites you will see they have a few males, all of which are gorgeous and you drool over, then you go to their girls pages and see all these large, long snouted big eared girls and your like what the heck lol. So some of those puppies are going to look like dad, some like mom, and some a mix of both.


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## shirley (Aug 2, 2011)

I was a breeder of chihuahuas for 30 yrs.To say if she is purebred would be difficult since you can get different sizes and features in every litter.She could be a purebred,only sure way is a dna testing.If the breeder is a honest breeder she will agree to this.She will want to make sure you are satisfied and happy with your puppy.
If you do not know,there can be more than one father in a litter.some puppies can be chihuahuas and some jrt.If the breeder is not careful in witnessing the breeding this can happen.You would be entitled to a full refund.She would most likely offer you a discount to keep the puppy or another puppy. But if it were me, i would want my money back.Good luck .
Shirley.


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## Pixie Luna (Jan 11, 2011)

I thought id have a research on her 5 gen paperwork - obviously theres no proof if these lines we're even connected to Luna or made up - but I thought id check anyway...
19 champions involved so I managed to trace most plus some non-champions but whom were KC reg (_for this they would have o have been Full Chi not a cross right??_) 

I found her grand parent online.. Wow looked EXACTLY like Luna, EXACTLY the same marking it was uncanny and the same skull shape/muzzle, Luna has almost a 'heart' shape on her head and this exact same shape/colour was on this grandparent which made me think - maybe this _is_ Lunas true background, plus the lines all matched up... 
However Luna's mother wasnt KC Reg, the mothers Sire was, but the Dam im unsure of (ie if theres any mix gone into Lunas background, I believe it could only be in her mother.) 
However, I found puppies from Luna's mothers Dam/Sire (Luna's grandparents and same line) those puppies were KC reg and were selling for £1,200 due to their blood line! 

The breeder told us why Luna's mother wasnt KC reg - I 'think' it was something to do with an accident the mother had as a puppy, breaking her leg? Will the Kennel Club really not register a puppy just because its had an operation on a broken leg? I understand it states 'natural alteration' but really that harsh on a broken leg? 
But having seen so many Chi's in her lines that have strong similarities, I feel better. 

I feel perhaps Luna is just a non-standard looking Chi (for now), her brothers and sisters looked like Chi's and Luna has similar marking/colouring to her father and her interactions with the female Chi mother makes me believe it was her true parents its where her mother has inherited the larger features is the question - but im no expert, maybe her mother was just a larger Chi with a larger muzzle.

As for the size of the mother, as it was a 4hour drive away (Believe me there arent many Chi's to choose from around here) we corrosponded by photos prior which is difficult to judge and I thought 4lb wasnt too big, it was only when we got there that I thought she's bigger than what Id hoped/imagined, I thought the dad was the mum as he was smaller. When my husband saw Luna there was no going home without her lol she seemed tiny too, its only when you get her next to Pixie you realise wow Pixie must have been super tiny at Lunas age! (Plus Lunas much more 'chubbier' than Pixie was lol)

No we didnt see the JRT at the breeders home at all. Yeah I do definatly see Chi in Luna I think its her paws/skull/stop that made me question the vet, but im learning they can vary so much. (It was the vets fault for joking she looked like a mix - at the end of the day I bet he's no Chi expert. I certainly hardly ever see Chi's around here.)

I dont intend to show or breed my Chi's, I dont care for the perfect litters, its the idea of being lied to/conned I think is a terrible business.

Luna's staying no matter how big she gets  ..after all she is my husbands baby so he can pick up the _big_ poops and i'll pick up Pixies _mini_ poops LOL! 

Thanks everyone for saying shes cute, she is adorable.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Glad you got some peace and have resolution! I was just thrown off by her coloring. When I went to yahoo images and typed in jack russell puppy, they all looked like her, color and marking-wise. The majority of the images were of fawn spotted on white with her face markings.

Everyone is right, though. Chis come in all shapes and sizes, all color variations and we love ALL of them!!


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## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

I also wanted to let you know that chubby puppies look HUGE when next to their mommies, it's like they get big quick but then slow down a lot. It's funny seeing a small nursing chi with her huge babies all lined up, they seem almost as big as she is.


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## bayoumah (Nov 30, 2010)

hi hope you find the contentment in your heart that you need that makes me angry also i dont know how much little luna cost can you put the amount in american money i think breeders should be held accountable for their lies but i dont know the rules of the trade personally i think little luna is a beautiful all the way chih and has very high quility markings please keep us posted thank you


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## PocoAngelo (Aug 9, 2011)

Good you have found some peace!

From the pics I can only say that I have seen worse pure breed Chihuahuas. So even if she is not what most breeders would choose to keep from a litter to show and breed from - she is still super cute and just as much a loving pet who also needs a good home!

Btw, how come you have a pedigree even though the pup is not KC reg? 
My first "Chihuahua" was also "pure breed" and I got a 5 gen pedigree - turns out she was a mix and I got played - big time! 

I now know better and im VERY picky on choosing pups


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## Pixie Luna (Jan 11, 2011)

I have Luna's 5 Gen pedigree but not KC reg as her mother_wasnt_ KC Reg - the breeder said this was due to her having an accident/operation on her leg bone when she was a puppy and they wouldnt allow KC Reg after that.. 
I havent been able to find documentation on the KC website about the truth in this rule, (so I started a seperate post about that) unless ive got the breeders story mixed up but im sure she said that was the reason why the KC stopped in her line.


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## PocoAngelo (Aug 9, 2011)

Pixie Luna said:


> I have Luna's 5 Gen pedigree but not KC reg as her mother_wasnt_ KC Reg - the breeder said this was due to her having an accident/operation on her leg bone when she was a puppy and they wouldnt allow KC Reg after that..
> I havent been able to find documentation on the KC website about the truth in this rule, (so I started a seperate post about that) unless ive got the breeders story mixed up but im sure she said that was the reason why the KC stopped in her line.


Ive never heard bout it my self in UK nor here in Norway.. But then we have laws that say one HAS to reg. the whole litter - If dam and sire is registered. And ALL non reg. breeding is VERY frowned upon and a pain in the behind for us who work so hard to follow all the regulations and ethics of breeding.

As I said, I also got a hand written pedigree with my forst "chi" that ended up looking nothing like a Chi what so ever. But that does not mean yours is not 
For us though, breeding non papered dogs is just as bad as mix breeding and calling the pups "designer" tea cups - to make money of of them.. I personally dont understand why breed on a dam that is paperless - regardless of looks - and even worse if she does have a injury. 

That is o the breeder though - and pups who are born, will still need a good, loving home!!


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## HollieC (Dec 29, 2009)

Pixie Luna said:


> I have Luna's 5 Gen pedigree but not KC reg as her mother_wasnt_ KC Reg - the breeder said this was due to her having an accident/operation on her leg bone when she was a puppy and they wouldnt allow KC Reg after that..
> I havent been able to find documentation on the KC website about the truth in this rule, (so I started a seperate post about that) unless ive got the breeders story mixed up but im sure she said that was the reason why the KC stopped in her line.


That is not true, the KC would not refuse to register her for that.

I think Luna is a Jack Russell cross personally, judging from the head, her ears which are big but also thicker/ heavier looking, and from her colours and markings. And from the size of her paws I thinkshe might grow quite big. I have 2 JRT crosses and they look similar as pups. JRTs can carry more puppies that chihuahuas and have little risk of birth complications so people can turn a bigger profitt by selling jrt crosses as pure chihuahuas. You could DNA test but would they need to have DNA from the mother to se if it was the real mother?? The owner probably won't agree. I'm sure you will love her regardless but it is terrible if the breeder lied to you. Could I ask where you got her from? (what geographical area) I am from Lancs too. xxx


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## Pixie Luna (Jan 11, 2011)

I certainly dont understand why the breeder would end (Lunas mother's) good line by not KC'ing her-now I know people can just 'lie' for KC papers, if she is capable of lying you'd think she would just lie IF Luna's mother was a cross anyway. :dontknow:
Like I say I found an advert for puppies whom shared the same grandparents/line as luna and they were selling for £1,200 due to the pedigree...if that was the case and she was thinking of breeding her female from that line you would certainly KC Reg? _(The breeder seemed quite well off, I dont think she was breeding for profit/greed or anything like that.)_
Her colourings/markings seem to copy her fathers, he was definately a full Chi. She has a stripe of more her mothers colour on her back (Dark brown) 

We had to drive a good few hours, it was Nottinghamshire area.


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## PocoAngelo (Aug 9, 2011)

Well.. There is TONS of options/excuses to "sell off" pups as pure breeds. Ive heard many a rubbish "reasons"

1. IF she has a accident mating - its easier to sell off cheap "pure chis". Most of these people dont want nor need more dogs at home.
2.She might even THINK they are pure breed if she doesn't know any better.
3. They might even be pure Chis - though not well bred/well matched or thought though.
4. Shes just lazy and cant be bothered to paper her dogs
5. The mom you saw, might not actually be the mom... If she has several dogs - they can easily be "tampered" with. 
6. Pedigrees are in the open - it is not difficult to put on another KCd name, if you know a bit bout the lines 


So there is many options and Ive given up trying to reason with those people (aka. BAD breeders)... 

I hope for your sake its not so - that she has told you the truth - but I also have to say that she does not look like my chi pups has done.


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