# In despair :-( *Gross poo picture alert'



## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

Hello gang, 

Firstly, apologies for the gross picture but I really need your advice. I think my baby has some form of colitis or IBS. Her diet consist of Symply biscuits (grain-free and 100% natural ingredients) and boiled chicken for training and days when her tummy is bad. Last night we just got back to solid poo when this morning her poor little bottom produced what you see on the attached, followed by a few squirts of yellow liquid, and then she sicked up the small amount of chicken she'd just eaten. I am despairing because her diet couldn't be more plain. Have any of you had similar issues? Have you ever seen poo like that?

She's been wormed and has a vet appointment on Monday so that will hopefully shed more light.

Thanks everyone :-( x


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## AnnHelen (Nov 29, 2010)

Hmmmmm, the food you are giving, since it*s grain free, does it contain lots of fat? Because Baby can have bits of that yellow stuff too if he got something really fatty...his stomach can*t handle the fattiest food...that*s what I have noticed...but other than that I don*t know..but it dosen*t look bad  its more fatty than runny I see  And that*s good


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

Just an idea,my sheltie could never eat chicken.Maybe just exclude the chicken for a day or two and see if it's that that's causing the trouble


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## AnnHelen (Nov 29, 2010)

Yes good idea Michele !

Is it boiled chicken filet you are giving? Or how is it? 
Baby can only have boiled filet..


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## princess_ella (Jun 4, 2005)

never heard of that dog food are you feed pilsbury biscuits cause thats what comes out in search when look for that


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## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

michele said:


> Just an idea,my sheltie could never eat chicken.Maybe just exclude the chicken for a day or two and see if it's that that's causing the trouble


That is an interesting thought. i really hope she's not as it's the only thing I use to train her with, all the shop-bought treats tend to be packed with rubbish. Can your sheltie eat turkey?


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## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

AnnHelen said:


> Yes good idea Michele !
> 
> Is it boiled chicken filet you are giving? Or how is it?
> Baby can only have boiled filet..


Yep, boiled fillet of chicken. She used to be fine on it. I'm just looking at colitis and see that it can often be triggered by stress - Molly HATES the oustide and finds her outside time really stressful, despite taking it slow and making it fun, she got really overwhelmed on Tuesday's walk so I'm wondering if this could be a factor to consider? We've had to go back a step on the outside walks, just puppy class and time with the trainer at the moment. Poor little lamb


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## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

princess_ella said:


> never heard of that dog food are you feed pilsbury biscuits cause thats what comes out in search when look for that


I think it's just a UK brand, here's what the website says is in it:


Product Description
We all want to give our Puppy the very best so here it is! Proudly made in the UK, Symply uses 100% natural, healthy ingredients with no artificial colourings, flavours or preservatives. Also containing a high level of Omega 3 for a healthy skin and coat. Symply has a high meat content for a greater taste that your growing pup wont be able to resist. Containing all the necessary vitamins and minerals for healthy growth and a strong immune system, Symply Puppy Turkey & Rice not only uses Turkey meat from non-cage and non-battery birds but has been formulated free of the ingredients that are known to cause food intolerances. Added Salmon Oil provides levels of DHA to assist your puppys brain development and eyesight.

Ingredients:

Dried Turkey (min. 32.5%), White Rice (min. 26%), Oats, Rice Bran, Dried Egg, Sunflower Oil, Beet Pulp, Salmon Oil, Turkey Fat, Seaweed.

Nutritional Information:

Protein 28% Fat 15% Fibre 3.5% Ash 8% Vitamin A 14,000 iu/kg Vitamin D3 2,000 iu/kg Vitamin E 210 iu/kg Copper (Copper Sulphate) 12 mg/kg Linoleic Acid 4.5%.


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

Molly n' me said:


> That is an interesting thought. i really hope she's not as it's the only thing I use to train her with, all the shop-bought treats tend to be packed with rubbish. Can your sheltie eat turkey?


I never tried him on Turkey,maybe have a look at Dorwest herbs,they do tree Barks Powder for Diarrhea ,and stomach complaints used to give it to our cat that had IBS,i also give it to Lily for anal gland trouble and she's been fine since putting a pinch in her food every day,it's only natural stuff,so no nasties in it.I've never heard of the biscuits you're feeding here in uk


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

I think that might be your answer, this food is not grain free. It has rice as the second ingredient (26%) as well as oats. Plus rice bran and beet pulp, which are also fillers. She might be intolerant to one of these ingredients, or as Michele suggested it could be the chicken.
There are better quality kibbles available, I would definitely consider changing brands.


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## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

Oh really? They were from Pets Corner and recommended by the (seemingly) very knowledgable salesman. I just get SUCH conflicting info on which dry food, which is the best and safest brand to look at?


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

It isn't a bad food, better than a lot on the market, but I would avoid grain entirely if it were me. The best UK made kibble IMO is Eden (has to be ordered online) but Pets Corners stock Orijen, Acana, Canagan and Ziwi Peak. Ziwi Peak is not a kibble, it is air dried raw, made into little jerky squares so is less processed than kibble.
Whatever you decide to feed (be it canned, dry, raw or whatever) the criteria for choosing a quality food is the same; high meat content from named sources, grain free and low carb, no artificial additives.


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## woodard2009 (Aug 4, 2010)

Molly n' me said:


> I think it's just a UK brand, here's what the website says is in it:
> 
> 
> Product Description
> ...


White Rice--Big no no. Where's the beef-Lol. I would definitely get some beef into this babies diet. I would stop the boiled chicken for now until you get his belly back on track. Don't believe in what is highly recommended from vets and pet shops as they are there to sell their product as any cost. Learn to read the ingrediants. Products are allowed to say anything they want on the front of the package like it's 100% real meat when it's not, but they are required by FDA to list the actual ingrediants. You need to know what you're looking for when you read the ingrediants. The first 3 ingrediants should always list a meat, not a meat meal like chicken meal, beef meal, etc. The nutritional section of this forum has excellent info to help you. Real pumpkin will help soothe his stomach. You can buy human grade beef, organs, etc. and dehydrate in the oven at low temps which would make a better training treat plus give him the nutrients he's lacking.
I have found that most dogfood companies, even the ones that preach their food is all natural are putting way too many things in the food to entice the buyer and it's not working for many of our chis. You'll find that many on this forum buy Fromm, ZiwiPeak, Stella & Chewies. These are a few of the better quality foods that haven't had any recalls. I hope your baby gets to feeling better soon.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Not a super high quality food according to this UK dog food ratings site ....

Symply Puppy Large Breed rated 3.3 out of 5! Which Dog Food

I agree with the others, I would get her on a better quality food and certainly a red meat such as beef, lamb, bison based diet rather than one based on birds.


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## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

This is all so so helpful guys - thanks so much. So I'm looking at Ziwipeak, is this a good choice...?

ZiwiPeak Dog Venison Pouch (available in 2 sizes) | Dry Dog Food | Dog Food | Dogs | Pets Corner

Seems I can only get lamb or venison - which would you guys opt for? Think perhaps I'll try the beef treats as well for training... just hope it all isn't too rich for her (I'll obviously wean her onto it slowly)


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

ZiwiPeak Daily Dog Air Dried Cuisine Venison Dog Food
Also petplanet sell venison one


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## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

Brilliant - thanks Michelle. I've just placed an order using your link, got some protexin paste as well for her little tummy. Hopefully this will make a big difference to her.

Thanks again everybody for all your really helpful posts and links. I'd be lost without this place!


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

Your welcome they're very fast at getting the zp out,good luck


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## AnnHelen (Nov 29, 2010)

Glad you got help, this is a wonderful place to be hihi <3


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## I<3Charlie-chi (Feb 25, 2011)

I sometimes order my ziwipeak from viovet as well as petplanet. With viovet you only have to spend £29 for free delivery, where as petplanet it's £39. I have a discount code for new customers at viovet where you get £3 off your first order of £15 or more, I know it's not much but every little helps! Viovet tend to deliver quicker too.
The code is VRCTVM4JY 
 xx


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Just make sure that you transition food VERY slowly in this pup. I'd try a teaspoon of the new stuff at first. If no reaction then go to a tablespoon in 4-5 days. You get the idea. Good luck.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Now you're on the right track! ZiwiPeak is EXCELLENT. Just do as Susan says above and transition slowly.


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## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

Wicked Pixie said:


> It isn't a bad food, better than a lot on the market, but I would avoid grain entirely if it were me. The best UK made kibble IMO is Eden (has to be ordered online) but Pets Corners stock Orijen, Acana, Canagan and Ziwi Peak. Ziwi Peak is not a kibble, it is air dried raw, made into little jerky squares so is less processed than kibble.
> Whatever you decide to feed (be it canned, dry, raw or whatever) the criteria for choosing a quality food is the same; high meat content from named sources, grain free and low carb, no artificial additives.


Just wanted to say a big thank you to you, Wicked Pixie, after she rejected the dried Ziwipeak entirely I followed your recommendation and have been transitioning Molly onto Eden and not only does she LOVE it but it seems to agree with her fussy tummy! I'm so pleased. In a few weeks I'm going to introduce canned Ziwipeak so she has wet food in the morning and the Eden kibble in the evening and lunchtime. Thanks again, can't tell you what a weight off my mind this is.

Happy Christmas! x


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

That is fantastic news  So glad you have found something really high quality that suits her.


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## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

I knew I was tempting fate... We're back to diarrhea and yellow/clear mucus today 

I stupidly gave her a small chunk of orange pepper yesterday without thinking about the consequences - I just thought she'd like the crunch and it was good for her. I wonder if this bout of bad tum is my fault? 

Waaaa! Sad face.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

A tiny amount of pepper shouldn't upset a healthy dog, but if you have a sensitive dog i would avoid all treat/snacks/chews entirely.
I would give her some tree barks powder or slippery elm to soothe her system. Have you considered feeding a raw diet? It is a little more complicated than feeding 'dog food' but it will give you more control over her diet, so you can totally avoid the things she is sensitive to. Something to consider.
What was she eating the last time she had normal poos for a good length of time?


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## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

Wicked Pixie said:


> A tiny amount of pepper shouldn't upset a healthy dog, but if you have a sensitive dog i would avoid all treat/snacks/chews entirely.
> I would give her some tree barks powder or slippery elm to soothe her system. Have you considered feeding a raw diet? It is a little more complicated than feeding 'dog food' but it will give you more control over her diet, so you can totally avoid the things she is sensitive to. Something to consider.
> What was she eating the last time she had normal poos for a good length of time?


Thanks I'll look for some of that today, does it go in their food? I have thought about raw but I really would like to avoid that if possible, mostly for logistic/practical reasons. I've ordered some acana samples without chicken, I've a horrid feeling it is chicken that she can't have and I use boiled breast meat for her training/treats and bribery to go outside, just lately it is about 80-90% of her diet as she can't seem to go more than a few days without having a bad tummy. For the past week all she's had is chicken and Eden kibble and it started really well but then went downhill fast. I've a tin of lamb Ziwipeak in the cupboard that I was saving to try her on when her tummy is behaving just so I know what effect the ZP will have, am tempted to start her on it today and remove the chicken completely from her diet. It's so hard to know right thing to do it is getting me down a little, my poor little pup  

Thanks so much for your advice WP x


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Poor little soul, it is no wonder you are worried.
Try just Eden without the added chicken and see if that helps, if it does then I think a kibble without any chicken would be the way to go, or just the canned Ziwi peak maybe.
Try cooked white fish as a nice bland training treat, or any other meat if you think she can tolerate it. I would avoid trying anything new while she is still having diarrhoea though. A surprising amount of dogs are allergic to/intolerant of chicken, so it could well be that. 
Tree Barks powder is from pet shops, or you can get plain Slippery Elm from health food shops. Just add a tiny pinch to her food.
Would a complete pre-made raw diet work for you? If so I would recommend Nutriment, great products and very helpful staff. The website is nutriment.co


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## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

Wicked Pixie said:


> Poor little soul, it is no wonder you are worried.
> Try just Eden without the added chicken and see if that helps, if it does then I think a kibble without any chicken would be the way to go, or just the canned Ziwi peak maybe.
> Try cooked white fish as a nice bland training treat, or any other meat if you think she can tolerate it. I would avoid trying anything new while she is still having diarrhoea though. A surprising amount of dogs are allergic to/intolerant of chicken, so it could well be that.
> Tree Barks powder is from pet shops, or you can get plain Slippery Elm from health food shops. Just add a tiny pinch to her food.
> Would a complete pre-made raw diet work for you? If so I would recommend Nutriment, great products and very helpful staff. The website is nutriment.co


The Eden has chicken in it though... Her diet at the moment is mostly chicken because it was the go-to food to get her tummy back on track, the only chicken-free thing I have here is the canned lamb Ziwipeak (Acana chicken-free kibble is on order) and I can get some plain white fish. My only worry is if I remove all the chicken products that would mean everything she's eating is totally new - the ZP, white fish, Acana - she's not had any of these before and I know you're supposed to transition slowly, but when her main staple is the thing causing the problem (or could be) then we're in between a rock and a hard place. Do you think we could go cold turkey and straight onto ZP and white fish today? Then adding Acana too when it arrives? 

I have just given her one teaspoon of the ZP as she's really hungry - time will tell how that goes down... Quite literally!

Yes it deffo could work for me - I'll go take a look now, thanks WP. Your wealth of knowledge is amazing! 


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

If the chicken is helping to settle her tum then it is unlikely to be the cause of the problem.
How old is Molly now and what does she weigh? When she has these episodes how long does the diarrhoea last?
Its a good sign that she is hungry, fingers crossed that the canned Ziwi will do the trick.


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## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

Molly is nearly 19 weeks and weighs 1.7 kg. it's rarely full blown diarrhoea, but just lots of mucus ranging in colour from clear to orange, never bloody, then we get awful orange/brown sticky mess, and that's usually followed by a few extremely soft stools (pudding-like) then we get a couple of days of normal healthy firm stools before starting all over again and often without the addition of any other food or obvious cause and still on just chicken, sometimes not. This process happens over and over again, like Groundhog Day, over the course of 7-10 days.

Other signs are LOTS of itchiness, tears, biting her hands, and rubbing her face. She seems totally fine in herself, very playful and active, drinking well and has a good appetite.

Sigh... I really hope we'll get there, it just feels like it takes an age. Her poor little bottom!


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## Molly n' me (Oct 11, 2013)

So far so good... Have been giving her a teaspoon of ZP every hour or so since yesterday mid-morning, no chicken and just very small pieces of the ZP beef treats and dried apple for training. She did a poo this morning and it was soooo much better - dark, small pellet-like, still a little soft but not an ounce of mucus in sight and a vast improvement. I'm crossing everything this is a sign of things to come... Keep your fingers crossed!


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

That sounds really promising, I have everything crossed for her. It does sound like she is allergic to something, lets hope it is the chicken as that is easily avoided.


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