# Do you think your chi is to breed standard?



## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Ok so a few comments the other day made me wonder how many of us actually know what a chihuahua to standard should look like?? 

So what I want to know is do you think your dog is to the chihuahua breed standard??


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## RosieC (Jul 6, 2010)

Not quite. The breeder I got Alfie from said that although he is very good quality and of a high-standard, he is too long in the muzzle to fully meet the proper breed standard, which is why they decided against using him for breeding. 

I'm actually very happy with this though, because I personally much prefer his length nose to the more snub-nosed Chi's.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Bryco is bred to standard, of course he has faults, but for the most part he conforms to it...

Oakley is the 2nd closest, but she is too tall and too thin framed. Her head would win some places here, not others. Shes too small anyway.

Trig, nope & Laurel, nope hahaha. 

Trig looked standard at 8 weeks but not anymore! Either way I love him to death and he does look like a chihuahua but hes too long, lanky and tall, not to mention over-size. His head doming could be better too.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Me, too! It made me wonder and look. She looks like the pictures or drawings from charts that I see, but she is still a baby so she may change. 

I'd be happy to know if someone (who knows more than me-which is really all of you!!) believes that she is or is not. She is AKC registered. Does not matter to my heart-I LOVE her no matter what she is, my precious girl!!


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## Lisajazzi (Oct 27, 2010)

I have no idea, i'd like to know one day. Given where came from it's doubtful.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

jesuschick said:


> Me, too! It made me wonder and look. She looks like the pictures or drawings from charts that I see, but she is still a baby so she may change.
> 
> I'd be happy to know if someone (who knows more than me-which is really all of you!!) believes that she is or is not. She is AKC registered. Does not matter to my heart-I LOVE her no matter what she is, my precious girl!!


She looks pretty standard. Her coat is a bit thin/single coated, many SC chis shown have nice thick double coats and fluffy tails  

Its hard to tell without seeing her "stacked", proportion comes into it...but her head has a nice stop and altho her ears may be a tiny bit high set they are the right size and shape 

She also looks like she'll be under the 6 lb mark as an adult.


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

Zoey -- Nope, no way, no how, nu uh lol! She has roached back, fiddle front, wrong head, bad rear, and an overbite of about 1/8-1/4" But I love her just the same lol
Sebastian was pretty darn close, although was 'oversized (at 5.5#) for the ring for boys, and his personality wasn't there.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

RosieC said:


> Not quite. The breeder I got Alfie from said that although he is very good quality and of a high-standard, he is too long in the muzzle to fully meet the proper breed standard, which is why they decided against using him for breeding.
> 
> I'm actually very happy with this though, because I personally much prefer his length nose to the more snub-nosed Chi's.


Alfie is to standar his muzzle length would just be a fault but it's not
Overly long anyway!!


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

cprcheetah said:


> Zoey -- Nope, no way, no how, nu uh lol! She has roached back, fiddle front, wrong head, bad rear, and an overbite of about 1/8-1/4" But I love her just the same lol
> Sebastian was pretty darn close, although was 'oversized (at 5.5#) for the ring for boys, and his personality wasn't there.


Lol 5.5 is NOT oversize for a ring male, B at 4 # is by far the SMALLEST in the ring, some are 2x his size, and yes, I mean 8 lbs, or so, too! hehe...Zoey is adorable tho and no one would question if she's a chi or not.

Hubby tells people Trigger is a mini rotty.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

I guess I should
Answe ahhaha

Lotus - yes... Bred to standard 

Daisy - not bred to uk standard hence not registered as is a
Mixed coat but she's pretty typey her topline isn't the best and she toes out a bit and her stop isn't as prominent as it should but she looks pretty close to standard


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## Muzby (Jan 28, 2009)

Betty has a gorgeous head, but her back is roached and she walks like a bulldog.  Her personality and such is wonderful though.

Goose has kitten ears, and I think his nose is a bit long. Also he has an issue with his mouth/throat area inside.. totally forget what the breeder called it. 

Oona, I think is my most standard. He face is good, her back is better than Betty and she walks like a chi should. Can't wait til her hair grows out!

That said, Betty WAS being shown and doing okay.. I don't think Oona has been shown yet. Goo will never be, too scared.


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

lol Nope, none of mine are to standard. Billy is nice, but his nose is too long and his ears are too big and shaped wrong. Lexxi has a nice head, but an underbite and she weighs 8 pounds. Reggie has I think the best head, but weighs 7 pounds. Tico's nose is too long without the correct stop. Twgigy's nose is too long and thick. The rest are more deer headed.


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## DwalisGems (Mar 9, 2010)

i think Ollie is close, i wouldn't know for sure but from what i have read hes not far off. i just cant wait for his coat to come through  he will always be a stunner in my eyes tho lol.......

what bout you sarah??xx


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

flippedstars said:


> Lol 5.5 is NOT oversize for a ring male, B at 4 # is by far the SMALLEST in the ring, some are 2x his size, and yes, I mean 8 lbs, or so, too! hehe...Zoey is adorable tho and no one would question if she's a chi or not.
> 
> Hubby tells people Trigger is a mini rotty.


Wow, when we were going to show Sebastian they were all small like 4#, at least that's what was winning.....but he didn't have the personality for it, if someone touched him he would roll over & pee lmao.

Yep, I know Zoey is VERY adorable, and I love her to pieces, she is definitely a Chi, just poorly bred.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Lianne I anwered!!

Just interesting to see what people think a chi should look like and whether the understand the standards the uks is slightly diff to us were more picky I think kristi and I worked out


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## Ivy's mom (Feb 15, 2008)

Hee heee.... Nope, but actually love the ways my girls look. I think everyones puppers are precious! When I bought my girls I wasn't looking for the standard, but more or less just the size and coloring.


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## ExoticChis (Jun 20, 2010)

Honey is 100% not to standard lol 
long face 
and a fe other nips and tucks 
but I love her and thats all that matters
I have not met Izzy in person yet so its
hard to tell from pics but so far she looks
nice and close


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Ivy's mom said:


> Hee heee.... Nope, but actually love the ways my girls look. I think everyones puppers are precious! When I bought my girls I wasn't looking for the standard, but more or less just the size and coloring.


I suppose the reason I did this is because I got the impression some people didn't know what a chihuahua to standard looks like.. Someone made a comment can't remember exactly what it said about a dog being standard when it was miles off! I wonder if the problem is people are breeding their pets because they see the money and think oh never mind so we get allthese dogs that half don't even look like chihuahuas and because there is so many not
To standard do people actually think that's what a chi is meant to look like??


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## woodard2009 (Aug 4, 2010)

BIG YEP!!! Midgie sure does meet my standard! She's perfect in every way, shape and form. I wouldn't have her any other way. It's impossible to really put a standard on any type of animal, because they're all so different & that's what makes them them. lol


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## LovesMyPups (Apr 18, 2010)

Lo is not. haha. Love her. 
Finn might be... but I don't think so since he doesn't walk right, has some "hair problems", and is a down right meany!...
I wonder about Dexter..? His fur is long, but thin so I think that's a fault, right? Although that could fill out, so I won't dock him that point just yet! Also, technically he has been seen for a heart murmur (one said it was severe, mine said it was barely there, and another couldn't find it at all) so that's another fault. Anyone else's opinion on Dexter? No hard feelings.


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## cherper (May 8, 2009)

Umm Idk but she rox my sox!!


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Leila is pretty standard, Cheryl. She is closer to a brood bitch than a show girl, but she has a nice head, muzzle's a bit long for show though from pics, She is longer in the body but that is acceptable for bitches. She has the sturdier build that judges like, shorter legs, etc. Her tail just isn't floofy enough


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

woodard2009 said:


> BIG YEP!!! Midgie sure does meet my standard! She's perfect in every way, shape and form. I wouldn't have her any other way. It's impossible to really put a standard on any type of animal, because they're all so different & that's what makes them them. lol


That's wasn't my question i meant the breed standard. It's easy to put a standard on a specific breed of dog the kennel clubs for each country set them.


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## Ivy's mom (Feb 15, 2008)

When I am out and see chi's I don't think I have ever really seen any to true standard. Yep, mainly cause so many breeders don't have a clue what standard is. I know 30 yrs. ago it seems standard was different that it even is now.


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## LDMomma (Mar 28, 2009)

No.

She hits the weight standard but that's about it. Otherwise, she's leaner (not cobby), with a slightly longer muzzle/less obvious stop.


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## cherper (May 8, 2009)

flippedstars said:


> Leila is pretty standard, Cheryl. She is closer to a brood bitch than a show girl, but she has a nice head, muzzle's a bit long for show though from pics, She is longer in the body but that is acceptable for bitches. She has the sturdier build that judges like, shorter legs, etc. Her tail just isn't floofy enough











I think her muzzle is short. Are there really shorter ones?


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## woodard2009 (Aug 4, 2010)

Daisydoo said:


> That's wasn't my question i meant the breed standard. It's easy to put a standard on a specific breed of dog the kennel clubs for each country set them.


I know Daisy, I was just being silly! I have no idea if Midgie's up to standard--I doubt it.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Ivy's mom said:


> When I am out and see chi's I don't think I have ever really seen any to true standard. Yep, mainly cause so many breeders don't have a clue what standard is. I know 30 yrs. ago it seems standard was different that it even is now.


Standards change over time. I see very few about mainly badly bred ones that I wouldn't know are chihuahuas haha. That's the problem that there are so many people breeding pets (best way to put it not that show pups aren't pets but u know) and people buy from them I wish I wouldn't even on here I think it's rare for someone to posttheir new puppy and it meets the breed standard (obv they all have the odd fault but ykwim? ) i guess it bugs me


Cheryl - muzzles are a funny thing they do come really short (think raches Paige she has a mega short muzzle) but the slightly longer (but still in standard) like leila (an lotus  are better for bites if you have a v short muzzle it's likely (buy not always) that their bite can be off slightly so if it's mated to another dog with a slightly longer muzzle and a strong bite it's likely to correct it in the pups


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

Reese and Miley are not, Leo yes. The funny thing is most people we run into can readily identify Reese and Miles as chis, but have trouble placing Leo. 
Reese was my first dog and I was actually wanting a typier chi, but being new to the breed I didnt know what to look for in a puppy so I ended up with Reesie (lucky for me ).
Obviously Im crazy about all three of my guys and think theyre all adorable, but I do think the less extreme look of the deer head comes with some advantages. I may be wrong but I dont think you really see the open fontanels in the deer head, neither Reese nor Miley had one but Leo sure does. Also when I first joined the forum and had just Reese and Miley I wondererd why everyone kept mentioning getting retained teeth pulled, etc. Then I got Leo and it made sense, when their noses are shorter and to standard that is one tiny mouth! Reese and Miley didnt have any trouble with retained teeth at all, but its something I will need to keep an eye on with Leo.


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## DwalisGems (Mar 9, 2010)

i think with alot of chi owners it doesnt matter whether they are 'standard' or not but it would for obvious reasons if you were planning on showing and if i paid through the earth for a potential show pup and it didnt turn out that way i would be pretty peeved lol but i think everyone pretty much knows what they are buying.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

See I don't think they do otherwise there wouldn't be a bunch of badly bred dogs! I dent pay through the earth for lotus she was cheaper than half the dogs advertised in the classifieds! I suppose I get annoyed that people think the breed looks different than it actually does


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## RosieC (Jul 6, 2010)

Daisydoo said:


> Alfie is to standar his muzzle length would just be a fault but it's not
> Overly long anyway!!


Yeah I don't think his muzzle is overly long but I'm by no means an expert, I guess the breeder is just very picky, he used to work for the KC and he's judging at Crufts in 2012 so I suppose he's used to looking for the smallest faults! He did say that Alfie would still do well in shows but is just not perfect enough for them to breed from when they had another potential stud dog they preferred. Which is good for me because it means I got him!


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

cherper said:


> I think her muzzle is short. Are there really shorter ones?


Yes ! Her muzzle would probably be fine for show...but the general muzzle you see on show dogs esp lc ones, you can sit your tumb on top and there shouldn't be muzzle poking out past it. B's is about .75" inch long, and there are shorter ones in the ring for sure.

But Leila's muzzle is MUCH shorter than a lot of the chis you see out and about.


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

Rylie is from a show breeder and was going to be kept to be shown, but was charting to be 3lbs fullgrown. She is 4lbs now and conforms to the breed standard very well.

Tucker weighs 5lbs, and again, I think conforms very well to the breed standard. He may still be shown. 

Emma was going to be shown but ended up being too small. Again, I think she conforms to the breed standard. Her breeder is a professional handler as well as a show breeder, and held Emma back until she was 5 months old. I took her with intentions to show her. She is almost a year old and only 3lbs, so I had her fixed.

Chloe fits the breed standard in some ways... apple domed head, moderately short snout... but she is too leggy/long in her body, and weighs close to 7lbs. She also has a very thin coat, and is lacking in hair on her belly. As a puppy she looked closer to breed standard, but grew into a lanky adult.


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## Chihuahuasloveme (Jan 8, 2010)

nope mine aren't ! but I didn't adopt them to be shown!


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

Well, even though I paid thousands for my little princess, the conversation we did have a couple of days ago resulted in me now knowing that no, my baby isn't to breed standrad


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Brody is not bred to the breed standard. He has a decent head, but he is undershot. You can't see his bottom teeth when his mouth is closed, but his bite is wayyyyyyyyyyyy off. He is also single coated. A show Chi would have a much thicker double coat. He is pretty square, but his legs are too long and he can also have a slight roach to his back. His angulation is OK front and rear and he doesn't toe out or in. However, his gait is only acceptable - nothing to write home about. He does this weird 'egg beater' movement in the rear when moved too quickly. Not sure what that is about. 

In addition, he is blind in one eye (no optic nerve in the left eye at all). He has alopecia pattern baldness and is hairless on his neck, most of his chest, belly, and inside his rear legs. His black color is fine, but his tan points could be better defined and less smutty. He does have very nice little feet.  Oh, and he's a nice size at 5 pounds.

He was bought as a pet and was neutered at 6 months as all pets should be. He is a great little guy, but should never be reproduced. 

As for seeing chi's bred to the standard out and about - I have only seen one that I would take home. I would say MOST of the chi's you see are poorly bred. Very, very few are bred to the standard. 

If anyone is wondering what a dog bred to the standard really looks like - you can see them at dog shows (for the most part). Most chi's sold as pets are nowhere close to good enough to be shown. By that, I mean close enough to what the standard identifies as the blueprint for our breed. Of course we don't love them any less for it.


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## TillyHeart (Jan 1, 2011)

Ya I personally couldn't care less if mine is, she is adorable and not bought to be shown. Wouldnt change her for anything in the world!


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## DwalisGems (Mar 9, 2010)

MyLittleCici said:


> Well, even though I paid thousands for my little princess, the conversation we did have a couple of days ago resulted in me now knowing that no, my baby isn't to breed standrad


but she is still a cutie.............not having standard chi's doesnt deter us from regretting having them or loving them any less


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## TillyHeart (Jan 1, 2011)

I agree! I think a lot of people don't even buy them or adopt them because they are "standard", we just fall in love with them. I just love animals, no matter what.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Guys I think some of you are missing my point it's not whether your dog is show quality or not or if you bought them to show it's if you think your dog is to breed standard some people don't seem to realise what a chihuahua is meant to look like!! 

Tracy Fab post


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## DwalisGems (Mar 9, 2010)

TillyHeart said:


> I agree! I think a lot of people don't even buy them or adopt them because they are "standard", we just fall in love with them. I just love animals, no matter what.


Tbh if every chi in the world was a perfect breed standard chi half of us wouldnt be able to afford to buy one especially in the uk so i'm glad of having the opportunity of owning my babies


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## DwalisGems (Mar 9, 2010)

Daisydoo said:


> Guys I think some of you are missing my point it's not whether your dog is show quality or not or if you bought them to show it's if you think your dog is to breed standard some people don't seem to realise what a chihuahua is meant to look like!!
> 
> Tracy Fab post


OOOPS sorry hun lol


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

Daisydoo said:


> Guys I think some of you are missing my point it's not whether your dog is show quality or not or if you bought them to show it's if you think your dog is to breed standard some people don't seem to realise what a chihuahua is meant to look like!!
> 
> Tracy Fab post


Most chihuahuas I see are soooo far from fitting the breed standard... I hardly ever see well bred chis on the streets.

I answered the question correctly too, I think. lol. 3/4 of my chis fit the breed standard.


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## Dragonfly (Jun 6, 2010)

Ivy's mom said:


> Hee heee.... Nope, but actually love the ways my girls look. I think everyones puppers are precious! When I bought my girls I wasn't looking for the standard, but more or less just the size and coloring.


Same here. I could have had a very standard adorable Chocolate Chi male but he just wasn't for me. I was just looking for a Chihuahua but black LOL I don't care if they were or weren't standard.

My girls aren't. Shayley is a bit "big" for a Chihuahua. Kizzie's muzzle is too long to be "standard" but I love them just the way they are and wouldn't change them for a standard for the world! :hello1: My next girl most likely won't be standard but it just really depends on what I fall in love with when I see her. If she is that's fine if she isn't thats fine too!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I agree, we ALL love our dogs, that's obvious!!!

But I think that Sarah started this thread to ask if we knew if our chi's were within the breed standard or not. You might think 'who cares', I bought him/her for a pet! Well that's fine, but do you care if your chihuahua LOOKS like a chi? If not, then why not just go buy a mix at the shelter? There's lots of adorable small and tiny dogs available there.  

The standard is a blueprint for the breed. It was created by the breed's founding fathers as a guide to what the 'ideal' specimen of the breed should look like. Sometimes there are significant differences between countries as to what is ideal. It is very interesting to read exactly WHAT our chi's are supposed to look like! 

Welcome to the home of the Chihuahua Club of America

Why is this important? Because if breeders just willy nilly throw two dogs together without regard to the standard - pretty soon you have a hodge podge of small dogs that do NOT meet the standard. The parent club of Chihuahua's in the US is the Chihuahua Club of America. They protect our breed by upholding the standard, hosting shows, and maintaining a data bank of sires and dams that are health tested. 

Here is our standard ....

Breed Standard

Breeders SHOULD be breeding to better our breed. To create loving little companions that LOOK like Chihuahua's. Not to make money. How many heartaches could be prevented by breeders actually caring about the lines behind their dogs and health testing their breeding stock? 

Chi's should look like Chi's. And that's only going to happen if people adhere to what the standard says.


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

Brodysmom said:


> I agree, we ALL love our dogs, that's obvious!!!
> 
> But I think that Sarah started this thread to ask if we knew if our chi's were within the breed standard or not. You might think 'who cares', I bought him/her for a pet! Well that's fine, but do you care if your chihuahua LOOKS like a chi? If not, then why not just go buy a mix at the shelter? There's lots of adorable small and tiny dogs available there.
> 
> ...


:hello1: :coolwink:

I 10000% agree. The breed standard is very, very important.


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

Both of mine are rescues and neither is bred to standard, no. They definitely look like chi's though and weight wise they are within standard. And personality wise they are the most perfect little ones ever.


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> I agree, we ALL love our dogs, that's obvious!!!
> 
> But I think that Sarah started this thread to ask if we knew if our chi's were within the breed standard or not. You might think 'who cares', I bought him/her for a pet! Well that's fine, but do you care if your chihuahua LOOKS like a chi? If not, then why not just go buy a mix at the shelter? There's lots of adorable small and tiny dogs available there.
> 
> ...


Excellent post, Tracy! I wholeheartedly agree.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> I agree, we ALL love our dogs, that's obvious!!!
> 
> But I think that Sarah started this thread to ask if we knew if our chi's were within the breed standard or not. You might think 'who cares', I bought him/her for a pet! Well that's fine, but do you care if your chihuahua LOOKS like a chi? If not, then why not just go buy a mix at the shelter? There's lots of adorable small and tiny dogs available there.
> 
> ...



Here here!!!

Unfortunately those who are uneducated about the breed are the reason why these people are just breeding random dogs willy nilly!! 

Tbh I think I've seen one new person recently who has had a dog who looks like a chihuahua and doesn't have a noticeable fault like a massive muzzle or somehing


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## DwalisGems (Mar 9, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> I agree, we ALL love our dogs, that's obvious!!!
> 
> But I think that Sarah started this thread to ask if we knew if our chi's were within the breed standard or not. You might think 'who cares', I bought him/her for a pet! Well that's fine, but do you care if your chihuahua LOOKS like a chi? If not, then why not just go buy a mix at the shelter? There's lots of adorable small and tiny dogs available there.
> 
> ...



That is very well said and even though alot of chi owners think that its not always stood by because we have all pretty much said our chi's arent breed standard so we are also at fault for funding their pockets, if that makes sense lol.....i know what i mean lol


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## RosieC (Jul 6, 2010)

> You might think 'who cares', I bought him/her for a pet! Well that's fine, but do you care if your chihuahua LOOKS like a chi? If not, then why not just go buy a mix at the shelter? There's lots of adorable small and tiny dogs available there.


That's actually a very good point! 

I have to admit that I am FAR from being knowledgable on breed standards and showing etc. but I did enough research before buying a Chihuahua to have a reasonable idea on what they *should* look like. Even though my primary concern wasn't getting a dog that was of high enough quality to win shows, I certainly didn't want to fork out for a dog that wasn't well-bred. 

I think the problem is that the bad breeders out there by far outnumber the good ones, and so if you don't do your reseach it is very easy to be mis-led and to believe that the majority is in the right.


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## DwalisGems (Mar 9, 2010)

RosieC said:


> That's actually a very good point!
> 
> I have to admit that I am FAR from being knowledgable on breed standards and showing etc. but I did enough research before buying a Chihuahua to have a reasonable idea on what they *should* look like. Even though my primary concern wasn't getting a dog that was of high enough quality to win shows, I certainly didn't want to fork out for a dog that wasn't well-bred.
> 
> I think the problem is that the bad breeders out there by far outnumber the good ones, and so if you don't do your reseach it is very easy to be mis-led and to believe that the majority is in the right.


i was exactly the same hun, i havent a clue on showing etc but have people i know that could give friendly advice and i done my research before buying. Ollie was meant to be kept by the breeder because he was a favourite however i think i was at the right place at the right time and got him :hello1:


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## Dragonfly (Jun 6, 2010)

foggy said:


> Both of mine are rescues and neither is bred to standard, no. They definitely look like chi's though and weight wise they are within standard. And personality wise they are the most perfect little ones ever.


That's how I feel about Kizzie. I adopted her from a home shelter on Petfinder. Had no clue what she was mixed with at the time she was just too little to tell if she'd change later but I didn't care because she was cute, black and cheap! LOL (IT does say mixed on the adoption papers but prob because there is no proof) I don't think she's standard at all but at the same time she looks like a Chi and acts like one too! LOL Your babies look more Chi to me though.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I think what people don't realize is that out of all the breeds I know, chihuahuas may have the biggest "variation" of non-standard, but recognizable dogs. 

Certainly many, many of them are very well loved. But the reality is _if they were a product of an intentional breeding, they should not have been bred if they don't at least somewhat conform to the standard_. 

Breeding should NEVER be done UNLESS IT IS TO IMPROVE OR PRODUCE THE MOST STANDARD CHIHUAHUA POSSIBLE! This "standard" has morphed over the years, allowing changes when necessary due to health concerns. A well bred chihuahua will be VERY UNLIKELY to have the genetic problems that have cost so many of us thousands of dollars.

My goal in breeding some day is to have more show puppies than I could ever possibly show or know what to do with. When that happens I will finally be "happy" with my breeding program. I will never breed for a "pet litter", even though many of my pups will go to fabulous homes. A show quality dog can make a fabulous pet too 

A good breeder knows their lines and knows what will come of breedings.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

DwalisGems said:


> Tbh if every chi in the world was a perfect breed standard chi half of us wouldnt be able to afford to buy one especially in the uk so i'm glad of having the opportunity of owning my babies


You have obviously been looking in the wrong place lol, the price for a pup around the show ring is half the price you would find on these dodgy ad sites. Its all word of mouth, and if anyone is researching into the breed well enough then you are likely to get into contact with some one who knows some one with a pup to standard that isn't quite good enough for the ring.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> I think what people don't realize is that out of all the breeds I know, chihuahuas may have the biggest "variation" of non-standard, but recognizable dogs.
> 
> Certainly many, many of them are very well loved. But the reality is _if they were a product of an intentional breeding, they should not have been bred if they don't at least somewhat conform to the standard_.
> 
> ...


Well said Hun xxx


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

Dragonfly said:


> That's how I feel about Kizzie. I adopted her from a home shelter on Petfinder. Had no clue what she was mixed with at the time she was just too little to tell if she'd change later but I didn't care because she was cute, black and cheap! LOL (IT does say mixed on the adoption papers but prob because there is no proof) I don't think she's standard at all but at the same time she looks like a Chi and acts like one too! LOL Your babies look more Chi to me though.


Yay for adopting, I think it's such a wonderful way to get a pet.  Mine are both purebred chi's, but not bred to standard, although they look fairly typey. My feeling is go with rescue unless you're going to go with a respectable well checked out breeder who breeds to standard. People really need to stop supporting backyard breeders and puppy mills.


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## DwalisGems (Mar 9, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> You have obviously been looking in the wrong place lol, the price for a pup around the show ring is half the price you would find on these dodgy ad sites. Its all word of mouth, and if anyone is researching into the breed well enough then you are likely to get into contact with some one who knows some one with a pup to standard that isn't quite good enough for the ring.


your chi is stunning


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

foggy said:


> Yay for adopting, I think it's such a wonderful way to get a pet.  Mine are both purebred chi's, but not bred to standard, although they look fairly typey. My feeling is go with rescue unless you're going to go with a respectable well checked out breeder who breeds to standard. People really need to stop supporting backyard breeders and puppy mills.


Exactly. If people stop BUYING them, eventually it will cut down on the breeding.


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## DwalisGems (Mar 9, 2010)

foggy said:


> Yay for adopting, I think it's such a wonderful way to get a pet.  Mine are both purebred chi's, but not bred to standard, although they look fairly typey. My feeling is go with rescue unless you're going to go with a respectable well checked out breeder who breeds to standard. People really need to stop supporting backyard breeders and puppy mills.


it is so sad that there are so many chi's in rescue centres and i admire those that do rehome them we very rarely see chi's up for rehoming in the uk???

Both mine come from reputable breeders and they are both to standard (Ollie being closer than Pippin) but maybe not show quality ... who knows?x


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## DwalisGems (Mar 9, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> Exactly. If people stop BUYING them, eventually it will cut down on the breeding.


here here exactly what i said earlier hun


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

DwalisGems said:


> but she is still a cutie.............not having standard chi's doesnt deter us from regretting having them or loving them any less


Yip well said!!! ! it's her personality I fell in love with, and ovcourse her little cute face  lol


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

If you contact the bcc they arrange the chihuahua rescue for the uk.


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## N*T*M*4U (Nov 10, 2008)

I really don't know anything about breed standard before but now I do from this board...
all my are as you call defected......bad bad overbite.......Maybe 20 years from now when I want another chi I probably get a breed standard and want to show....sound like lot of fun.....


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

So, I now understand the difference between a purebred and bred to the standard. Thank you all. I have enjoyed reading your comments! Mine is purebred but may or may not be standard. 

Speaking of muzzles-my baby's sire has the stubbiest muzzle that I have ever seen! Here is his photo although it is a bad picture. The way his head is in the picture it appears that he has no neck, but he does. He also looks chubby but he is 6 pounds (I had them weigh him since I compiled a little genealogy for her).


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes, I think for my next chi, I would like to get a breed standard chi, and I will come to yous for help in finding one  lol I wouldn't know who to contact for that, I mean a lot of breeders lie so it's hard nowadays ae :/


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Perry is to standard, fabulous apple done head, short muzzle, not totally pointed but some judges prefer that teddy bear face, large flared ears set correctly, well sprung ribs good stretch of neck and correctly set tail not to low nor to high and flat to the back. Movement is straight not to close or wide apart with good rear drive 
Some critiques from shows about him (taken from my website)
"I loved his head & his sweet expression, presents himself well both standing & when he is on the move, carries a good coat & cuts a fine picture when on the move"
GEORGE FARMER - BORDER UNION CHAMP

"cream, pleasing head & expression, compact well balanced body, firm level topline, lovely smooth coat, well presented"
MICHAEL QUINNEY - EAST OF ENGLAND CHAMP

"A sixteen month old fawn and white sable. very flashy and nicely fringed looked good on the move and standing"
GUY HAZLEHURST - LONG COAT CHAMP










Similar comments for red (since he is still staying I will include him) and lolly, they don't hold such good head quality's both have good movement (can't remember red walking on lead) but both have the most stunning ears


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## DwalisGems (Mar 9, 2010)

Daisydoo said:


> If you contact the bcc they arrange the chihuahua rescue for the uk.


yes ive heard of the organisation hun but meant in random rescue centres like they are in the US they seem to have so many. I have never seen one in my visits to different rehoming centres over the years.x


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## DwalisGems (Mar 9, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> Perry is to standard, fabulous apple done head, short muzzle, not totally pointed but some judges prefer that teddy bear face, large flared ears set correctly, well sprung ribs good stretch of neck and correctly set tail not to low nor to high and flat to the back. Movement is straight not to close or wide apart with good rear drive
> Some critiques from shows about him (taken from my website)
> "I loved his head & his sweet expression, presents himself well both standing & when he is on the move, carries a good coat & cuts a fine picture when on the move"
> GEORGE FARMER - BORDER UNION CHAMP
> ...


thank you for sharing those gorgeous pics....Perry is amazing hun! How old was he when his coat came through fully hun, i am waiting for ollies patiently lol


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> Perry is to standard, fabulous apple done head, short muzzle, not totally pointed but some judges prefer that teddy bear face, large flared ears set correctly, well sprung ribs good stretch of neck and correctly set tail not to low nor to high and flat to the back. Movement is straight not to close or wide apart with good rear drive
> Some critiques from shows about him (taken from my website)
> "I loved his head & his sweet expression, presents himself well both standing & when he is on the move, carries a good coat & cuts a fine picture when on the move"
> GEORGE FARMER - BORDER UNION CHAMP
> ...


Perrys coat is also correct for a l/c male!!


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

DwalisGems said:


> yes ive heard of the organisation hun but meant in random rescue centres like they are in the US they seem to have so many. I have never seen one in my visits to different rehoming centres over the years.x


Thaw because they are really popular there you get the odd one I've seen but mainly the bcc will take them


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Thank you, I am soo very proud of him and adore his breeder for letting me have such a stunning boy. He was fully coated by 10months and stopped winning so much because he looked so much older, her went through a stage at 13 months (end of summer) where he lost some of it. Buts its slowly coming back. Just hoping he is back to his full glory by crufts!!

Haha yeah sarah forgot that, he is a little over coated but that seems to be the way the standards are going, lollys also have the correct feathering tho I would like her to have more. All 3 also have large round dark eyes,there are a lot of small piggy eyes that are not correct about.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

From what I see in the ring in my area Chibi is pretty close to the standard with a few faults. I was going to show him but his topline never leveled out.

Yoshi is no where near standar, bless his heart.


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## Terri (Aug 21, 2009)

Out of my 3 i would say Darla is pretty close.
Daisy am no sure really and Dillon has a slightly longer muzzle, but it's not real long. lol
It doesnt bother me at all though since just pets and they do all look like chi's to me.. Daisy walks funny but it's very cute. bless her. 
Be interested to see what other folk think anyhow just for kicks. x


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## kimr (Nov 14, 2010)

Goodness, no...The only thing standard Chi about Gracie is her Chihuahua personality, which is why I have her in the first place!


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## jjv3189 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nope! Not even close LOL Baxter's bite is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off..he has a terrible underbite, and most of the time you can see his bottom teeth. Only one of his ears stands erect, he's bowlegged and stocky. But he DOES have a wonderfully fluffy and shiny coat and tail. Well..he is after all mixed with a Peke.. so that'll explain his faults...haha.. just wanted to respond to this thread..because I do know what a chihuahua bred to standard looks like..and lots of people have no clue! There are lots of different looks to a chi nowadays because so many people are breeding them without sticking to standards and its awful. I do love all chi's, regardless of their looks.. but I do wish that when someone talks about a Chihuahua that more people knew what a proper Chi looks like


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## Dragonfly (Jun 6, 2010)

So all of the Chis here who aren't standard, does that mean they came from a bad breeder? Maybe I read it wrong somewhere..


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## jjv3189 (Dec 13, 2010)

Dragonfly said:


> So all of the Chis here who aren't standard, does that mean they came from a bad breeder? Maybe I read it wrong somewhere..


Nooooo..Not all. At least not in my opinion.. Its normal for pups to be born with faults. If the dog has a dachshund body, floppy ears, and long legs then yes..bad breeder lol.. but some things like muzzle for example don't always come out right in every pup in the litter.. Some flaws just means the dog isn't going to win any shows, they're still coming from a healthy , championship line of a reputable breeder


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

I have one who is not standard and one who is.
Neither are show quality, I think there is a difference between breed standard and then breed standard show quality.

JMO


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

Edited!!!


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Here is a horrible attempt at stacking Chibi tonight. I havent had his show lead on him or tried stacking him since he was 6 months old and he didnt want any part of it. He wouldnt be still. The stacking doesnt do him justice as when he is in a natural stack he looks great those back angles are not so straight and he holds his tail over his back better and the tail plume is really nice and his croup isnt so low, he has himself kinda tucked under. He is dirty and his coat is all over the place but you get the general idea ;-) He moves beautifully.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

freedomchis said:


> Well i would say all of mine are of breed standard but al have there own faults slightly longer muzzle on Alfie but big eyes lovely coat level top line , Suzie her tail drops when she is on the stand (a big fault too me) but other wise her fault longer in the body Carlin no faults as of yet but i think maybe a little bit too long in the body but he is only 9mths Cora slightly long on the muzzle not as long as her dad though and her body is perfect too me beautiful coat for a 10mth old ! Jade my smooth her head i feel could be bigger and she is slightly over shot not that its noticable lovely double coat and lovely big eyes and a beautiful body
> Zara could do with more coat and a slightly larger eye and could do with putting more weight on too Willow (smooth) long in the body and longer in the nose but the most beautiful eyes (she is a brood girl only though) And Toddy i really cant say too much about him but i defo is breed standard lovely big eyes nice coat
> 
> I could give loads of critiques on all the ones i have shown too out of 8 i now have 5 i have shown and 4 still are shown (Toddy was shown by his previous owner but he is now 7 but he got his stud book number and a CC)


Ahhh I was leaving out faults lol I would be her all night picking faults with mine I'm far to fussy haha, are you going to show toddy in veteran? Or has he had the chop? I think we need lots of pictures of your guys especially carlin  xx


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

LOL Louise if i put down all my dogs faults that i pick over i would be here all night i just find faults 

No Toddy is not for shows although he still has the showing gift LOL poor little man!
I have loads of pics of mine but i am sooo lazy too put them on photobucket so i just put them on Face book but i am going too bath Cora tomorrow and put some table pics of her up for opinions hubby says i should show her BUT i say no so would love your opinion on her!!

Michelle i love Chibi he is my fav colour if only i had one that colour!! And his topline doesn't look bad from them pics??


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Thanks, it is funny as sometimes it looks and feels roached and sometimes it doesnt?
Here is one I posted here while back that he is in a more natural stack.


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

I think sometimes if they have a little bit of weight on them they wont look as roached i hope this makes sense?? I have a girl here who is defo not roached but if she is thinner (not a great eater) she will feel as if she is roached!

I still cant see him being roached here either but the pic isn't at a great angle for me too tell


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

He is a finer boned boy to but you may be right as he has been a chunky, monkey lately and he doesnt seem nearly as roached.


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

Here is a pic i took of Carlin for his breeder these aren't perfect stands by any means 


I hope they worked as i forget how too do these type of pics

Edited too add Alfie


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

they are gorgeous! Chibi has longer legs but I think the pictures make him look as if he has much longer legs and they really are not. I think it is the angle of the camera as well as his coat not being combed down?


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## Zippy (Dec 31, 2010)

At 8lbs, there is no way that Zippy would make the "standard" grade. Not that he cares, though. Zippy is a rebel and wouldn't want to be a part of any club that would accept him as a member!


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## omguthrie (Oct 13, 2009)

Nope, Lilo isn't anywhere near the breed standard. I wonder on occasion if she is mixed with something else but I can't figure out what it would be to leave her looking like she does. She is a rescue though so I have no idea of her breeding. 

I do show my dogs though so I do know what show bred dogs look like. I have noticed a lot of dogs that are recognizable as chihuahuas (like Lilo) but are very far from the breed standard. The standard is there to keep the breeds as the breeds that we love. 

I did hear rumor that in 2012 the AKC is putting in a new rule that dogs must pass a vet exam before they can earn their championship. Not a bad idea as I've seen dogs that are lame or have other issues such as large open fontanels, etc that in my mind shouldn't be shown or championed out and definitely not bred from.


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## Chiva (May 2, 2010)

Nope, not at all, fugly things they are!


Its all down to each persons interpretation of the breed standard which is actually something I like, it means you dont get the same dogs winning ALL the time. I believe the FCI and USA breed standards are a bit more specific than the UK ones which does make it easier for the judges in a way as its less down to interpretation and more whether the dog meets the criteria or not.

Certainly with my own dogs (of all breeds) I have had varying opinions on them. One week we will get chucked in a poor class, the next week we'll win  Theres no telling! But I personally wouldnt show a dog that I didnt feel was acceptably close to the breed standard so in my personal opinion, I think mine meet most of the criteria of the breed standard in my own interpretation of it.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

omguthrie said:


> Nope, Lilo isn't anywhere near the breed standard. I wonder on occasion if she is mixed with something else but I can't figure out what it would be to leave her looking like she does. She is a rescue though so I have no idea of her breeding.
> 
> I do show my dogs though so I do know what show bred dogs look like. I have noticed a lot of dogs that are recognizable as chihuahuas (like Lilo) but are very far from the breed standard. The standard is there to keep the breeds as the breeds that we love.
> 
> I did hear rumor that in 2012 the AKC is putting in a new rule that dogs must pass a vet exam before they can earn their championship. Not a bad idea as I've seen dogs that are lame or have other issues such as large open fontanels, etc that in my mind shouldn't be shown or championed out and definitely not bred from.



I have never seen a lame dog in the ring without being dismissed? I am not sure about some of the other breeds but I know in Danes they will not usually allow a dog with major faults or health issues in the ring. Most have OFA, CERF, etc.. throughout their show career anyways.


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## Adrienne (Apr 3, 2009)

I have No idea I know Ava isnt But i dont know about Quark and Lola


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## RosieC (Jul 6, 2010)

I think one of the main differences between breeding to standard or not bothering is that if a 'breeder' doesn't care whether the dogs they're breeding from conform to the breed standard visually, then how much are they going to care whether those dogs are healthy and have good temprements?

My primary reason for looking for a reputable KC accredited breeder when getting my first Chi was that I knew it would give me a much higher chance of ending up with a healthy and good-natured dog, which was the most important thing for me. I'm obviously not saying that no well-bred dog will ever have health or behavioral issues, or that badly-bred dogs necessarily will, but if you go to a good, conscientious breeder who breeds selectively and knows their lines then you are massivley reducing the risk of ending up with a dog who has issues.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Hubba hubba carlin I'd love a girl like him!!!!

Alfies muzzle is slightly longer than lotus, I'll get someone to take a pic of her stacked hahaha coz yesterday she was standing beautiful until I grabed my phone and this was what I got :roll:










I suppose find it concerning that people don't know all dogs have their faults... Even champions but if you don't know if your dog meets the breed standard then I don't think it does the breed any good!! We pride ourselves on loving our breed blah blah blah but then buy dogs who frankly look nothing like a chihuahua should!! 

Haha lotus' fault ATM is her personality ahahahaha and she's a little skinny grrr

She's got a good stop that sits about 95 degrees, a slightly pointed muzzle which is about .9 inch long dunno why I measure it my thumb up to the first knuckle fits on it! A really strong scissor bite she's teething an its not moved at all! Level topline, correct tail set I adore her ears!! A nice rear (don't tell her haha) her coat is coming through well she's 7 months on Monday and has a promising coat.

She's just very shy buy dominant out the house and doesn't like strangers unless she gets time to know them and obv sh can't stand on a table and waitnhalf an hour whilst she susses the judge out lol


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

Aww Lotus  
Lol who cares about personality anyway when youre that stinkin cute?! Look at her little grin!


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Hahaha she's perfect at home and with friends and family oh and preggo women she loves a baby belly just is not keen on newbies or hats haha

Her tail blur makes me laugh she's so happy all the time


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

Oh i would like too say every judge likes different types of dogs some go on movement some on looks some are really picky about mouths 
some judges will say oh i dont like that dog until they actually go over it and they find that they do like it!
I have seen dogs that i loved in the ring until i got up close to them and actually i found that i didn't like them at all they have the look of a perfect chihuahua but then if you go by the chi standard there is actually something not quiet right about it
And every dog champion or not has its faults no one dog is perfect that is why we love our breed LOL!


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

freedomchis said:


> Oh i would like too say every judge likes different types of dogs some go on movement some on looks some are really picky about mouths
> some judges will say oh i dont like that dog until they actually go over it and they find that they do like it!
> I have seen dogs that i loved in the ring until i got up close to them and actually i found that i didn't like them at all they have the look of a perfect chihuahua but then if you go by the chi standard there is actually something not quiet right about it
> And every dog champion or not has its faults no one dog is perfect that is why we love our breed LOL!


Isnt that the truth! I know with Danes it can be very political and we have issues with some judges being bias of color. I know in California and the vicinity as well as a few other states they love color and it is much easier to finish a Harlequin out there as it is a favored color. Here and in my areas they like the Fawn and they are much easier to finish. It all depends on the judge so I have to research the judges coming. I love to get judges that breed Dobermans and dog breeds that move well as Theismann moves like a dream  He is a shorter boy so some judges like taller Danes and some like a shorter stouter dane. But the one thing is Dane's are a head breed so they have to have a nice head piece no matter what judge is on them. I do not show Chi's but I have good friends that do and I like to watch them in the ring 

But I agree that all dogs have faults no matter what the breed ;-)


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

Chibi is absolutely gorgeous... his coat grew in SO nicely!

Lotus reminds me of Emma... I had this thread open earlier and hubby walked by and commented with the same thing.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Thank you!  As I said his coat was all over the place, LOL! but yes I think it has grown in very nice


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Aww thanks Jessie they are both really delicate looking altho I'm waiting for lotus to fatten up she's eating and you will laugh 4oz raw and 1/2 - 1 scoop of ziwi a day hahaha

Deffo I said the same earlier saoirse they all have faults but I suppose my point was whether or not people
Knew what a breed standard chi was its obvious some don't


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## pinkprincess (Dec 1, 2008)

Honey has pretty long legs and although her jaw was fine when I got her she has gradually developed an underbite so she isn't!


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

I need to get some new pictures of my chis stacked... the last one I have of Tucker is from when he was a puppy, and the only stacked pics I have of Emma are from her breeder.


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

This is probably the closest I have of a profile picture of Rylie... she's 5 years old, and I'd consider her to be a good example of a short coat chi:


Rylie by InLimbo87, on Flickr


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

She is beautiful!


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## Chiva (May 2, 2010)

Here's some of mine stacked.


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## rache (Nov 10, 2009)

Darcy, Pixie and paige I would say are good examples of breed standard. Poppy has a great head but her muzzle is slightly long. Billy is no where near! 

Ill get some new Pics and update!


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## rocky scotland (Jun 15, 2008)

Mmmmmmm interesting thread. Well at 8lbs Rocky is too 'big' for standard but apart from that he is pretty standard, what do you guys think?? Maybe I am totally wrong.

Some stunning examples of chis on here!


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## jesicamyers (Dec 27, 2010)

My jax is 1/4 dachshund, so he's def not breed standard! however, the breed standard is clearly defined on the AKC and CKC websites, if you're unsure of what to look for. Also, a google search can bring up tons of pics of past champions for comparison. I'm not so worried about breed standard, as I would never attempt to breed my pets. My dad bred GSD's for years and it is way more work than I am up for. Jax is such a darling and fits into our family perfectly, regardless of what a show judge may think of him.


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## Tyson's Mum (Dec 26, 2010)

I think Tyson is perfect but I have no idea if he is breed standard..lol what do you guys think.















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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Awww I like tyson very much, what breeding is he? Is she under shot? x


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Lou_lou said:


> Awww I like tyson very much, what breeding is he? Is she under shot? x


He sorry not she lol silly phone!


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Tyson is lovely!!!


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## Tyson's Mum (Dec 26, 2010)

Not sure what you mean by what breeding is he, his kc name is Eastcotestar Tiny Tyson if that helps and I think he may be very slightly overshot as the tip of his tongue sticks out occasionally his teeth seem to line up but he won't let me have a proper look to be sure.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

What's his pedigree (meaning what lines are there?? Who's the dam/sire etc)


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## FurKidMommy (Nov 13, 2010)

Oh, I know mine aren't. They're all rescues. Just quick faults, Wiz and Turbo are oversized (along with several other faults), Willow has an underbite and protruding eyes, Bella has ears that flop regularly, and Chassie bows really bad in her back legs due to bad knees.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

I found tysons pedigree online


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## Tyson's Mum (Dec 26, 2010)

Daisydoo, that saves me typing it up lol


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## Chiboymom (Jul 8, 2009)

Draco was breed by a good breeder, though he has a standard shaped head, he is long lanky, and on the large side. I love my "pet quality" dog so it doesn't matter to me.


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## Tyson's Mum (Dec 26, 2010)

I like it "pet quality" Tyson is defiantely that


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

Hahahaha...Milo, Matilda, Maxie & Marley NO, NO, NO & HE!! NO! :lol: Maya is somewhat in standard but her build is too thin, her nose is a hair too long & her stop is just low enough to not be as pronounced as I'd like. Maribelle fits into the standard pretty well. Her eyes are a little small for my liking but I personally really like the rest of her as far as Chi standard goes...or how I understand the standard to be anyway.


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

I think Mari is gorgeous... okay, well, I think they're all lovely... but Mari's a really good example of a chi and I love her coat and markings


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Every one has a soft spot for the gorgeous Mari xx


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

I kiss Mari now please  she's lovely reminds me of daisy so maybe I'm biased haha


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## Dragonfly (Jun 6, 2010)

MChis said:


> Hahahaha...Milo, Matilda, Maxie & Marley NO, NO, NO & HE!! NO! :lol: Maya is somewhat in standard but her build is too thin, her nose is a hair too long & her stop is just low enough to not be as pronounced as I'd like. Maribelle fits into the standard pretty well. Her eyes are a little small for my liking but I personally really like the rest of her as far as Chi standard goes...or how I understand the standard to be anyway.


lol Well I don't think I have to tell you (because I've reminded you a million times already  hehe  ) Mari is my favorite LC!! She is just beautiful! I'm more of a SC but Mari really makes me love LC! :hello1:


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## Chiboymom (Jul 8, 2009)

MChis said:


> Hahahaha...Milo, Matilda, Maxie & Marley NO, NO, NO & HE!! NO! :lol: Maya is somewhat in standard but her build is too thin, her nose is a hair too long & her stop is just low enough to not be as pronounced as I'd like. Maribelle fits into the standard pretty well. Her eyes are a little small for my liking but I personally really like the rest of her as far as Chi standard goes...or how I understand the standard to be anyway.


Yes, I love Maribelle also, it was Mari and Therese's Tabitha that made me yearn for a long coat chihuahua. They are both fine canines.


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## 2Cheese (Feb 21, 2010)

No...none of mine are...

Mia is a deer head
Bailey is big...8lbs and very long legged
Addy had an underbite and dislocated tail


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## Chiboymom (Jul 8, 2009)

2Cheese said:


> No...none of mine are...
> Bailey is big...8lbs and very long legged


Draco is the same...they are about the same age, and I remember they both seemed like they would be small and then they sprouted those long legs. I know Bailey came from a good breeder as well, it just shows that a standard chihuahua can have a pup that fall outside of the standard. I think both of our dogs look very much like the standard, outside of their size.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Chiva said:


> Here's some of mine stacked.


Your gang is just gorgeous!


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

rocky scotland said:


> Mmmmmmm interesting thread. Well at 8lbs Rocky is too 'big' for standard but apart from that he is pretty standard, what do you guys think?? Maybe I am totally wrong.
> 
> Some stunning examples of chis on here!


Other than the his weight I think Rocky looks like a good example


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Tyson's Mum said:


> I think Tyson is perfect but I have no idea if he is breed standard..lol what do you guys think.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can not really tell much without a stacked shot from the side but I really like his head and muzzle


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I am also a Maribelle lover  All of your crew is beautiful but there is just something about Maribelle


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## Mom of 4 Chi's (Apr 3, 2009)

Yes, mine are all bred to the Chihuahua standard. Ha! Just joking! I think Maxx comes closest though. 

Maybe you all can explain something to me? When did the Chihuahua standard change? I collect old Chihuahua books, the earliest is from 1947 with pictures dating even earlier. In all my books none of the Chihuahuas look anything like what the standard is today. They look like the chis everyone says are poorly bred, and not to standard. When and who changed this? If those early chis are the "blueprint" for our Chihuahuas today, then something went wrong. Lol! These books are filled with champion Chihuahuas and none look like what we are saying the standard is today, wether they're UK or US chis.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's (Apr 3, 2009)

*Bump*
I've been searching the net trying to answer my own questions, but can't find anything.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

I suppose as time goes on breeders breed to better the breed and create some thing more desirable, it's also all about what is winning in the show ring that decides what the breed looks like. Take the bulldogs there jaws were fine until one who was very badly undershot with teeth sticking out started winning and evey one used him at stud creating lots of under bites. 
All these chihuahua we get that don't look to standard are just throw backs and could happen in any litter.
That's my guess  xx


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

That's a really good question Lisa. I will try and do some research and find out some info for you. I know there are very few (probably none at all) breeds that have remained the same over the ages. Shoot, the old bulldogs used to look very much like the American Bulldogs we have now. They have been bred so extreme that they can't even breed normally, they are artificially inseminated, and they have to have planned c-sections for the births. The big dogs like Danes and Mastiffs have been bred to be bigger and bigger and bigger until now their lifespans are only about 8 years. 

The only dog that I think has remained close to it's original standard is the Basenji. And partly that is because a team of concerned breed enthusiasts went to Africa in the 70's and 80's to bring back breeding stock because it was such a closed gene pool here. I can't think of any breeds we have now that exist in their original state or origin anywhere like that. Certainly you couldn't go to Mexico and find little chi's running around. ha ha.

I do see a trend towards bigger Chi's in the ring as people are breeding away from the tinies. Of course they still occur, but breeders aren't going to risk their bitches by breeding a tiny one. Especially just to have one puppy. It's just not worth it. I have also seen a trend towards more extreme heads with teensy tiny muzzles and huge domed foreheads. I don't think our standard calls for that amount of extreme, although it is up for interpretation. The problem with those teensy muzzles is, of course, teeth and bite problems. Overcrowding, double teeth, bad bites, and teeth poorly rooted in the sockets so that they decay early. The sinus cavity can also be affected with such tiny muzzles and then you see the profuse sneezing and reverse sneezing, along with the bad eye tearing, etc.

I hope others chime in on this topic!! It is fascinating to me.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Here is a table showing the original standard from 1943 and the changes to the standard which were adopted in 1990.

Chihuahua Breed Standard, then and now


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> Here is a table showing the original standard from 1943 and the changes to the standard which were adopted in 1990.
> 
> Chihuahua Breed Standard, then and now


Very interesting! Thanks for posting that, Tracy.


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## Smith (Jun 7, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> The only dog that I think has remained close to it's original standard is the Basenji. And partly that is because a team of concerned breed enthusiasts went to Africa in the 70's and 80's to bring back breeding stock because it was such a closed gene pool here. I can't think of any breeds we have now that exist in their original state or origin anywhere like that. Certainly you couldn't go to Mexico and find little chi's running around. ha ha.


I may be talking totally out of my tush, here, but I always thought the mid-sized sighthounds (greyhounds, whippets, afghans, salukis) have remained relatively consistent from then until now. I know they've found ancient skeletons and mummified sighthounds in Egyptian tombs and been able to identify them as such by their similarity to the modern-day sighthounds we have now.

Lyra's a rescue chi, so if she is to standard, I'm pretty certain that it's completely by accident. She came from a puppy mill, and I don't think her breeder was considering the chi standard when he bred her mom. She also has luxating patellas in both back legs. I'm not super-familiar with exactly what a to-standard chi should look like, but I'd also guess she's overall too leggy and her head is more of a 'deer' head than an 'apple' head.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 28, 2008)

My 2 def arent breed standard. Adam is the closest, he has a nice round head but his muzzle is too long and he is probably a tiny bit long in the body.
Heidi looks like a mini whippet so no ribbons for her!!LOL Plus they are both about a Ib or 2 too large.
Hannah is more Daschund looking but might win a cutest pup competition.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I think the standard changes because someone breeds puppies, out pops a puppy, the puppy is put in the ring, it doesn't quite look like all the others do, but...there's something appealing about it...so...it wins. And it keeps winning. Lather, rinse, repeat.

E.g. one day there was a chi in the ring w/ a shorter muzzle. And it won. So shorter muzzles started popping up here and there. Now a longer muzzle simply won't win. 

One thing I will say though is it seems we are reaching a point where certain parts of our breed are done developing, e.g. the head. There is not much more to be improved in the head of the standard chi without it starting to look entirely too puggish, and I have seen some in the ring that have crossed that line. But we have a lot of work to do structurally, dentally, and mentally in chis. Movement needs to be improved on now, too. In another 50 years you will see much more solid chis in the ring, and far few scared/timid ones. That is...if breeders do what they're supposed to do!


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

Based on the chart Tracy linked too it certainly doesnt look as if the standard has changed much at all, at least on paper. I wonder if its just a change in interpretation, like a rounded skull means something different to us now that we have the really rounded dome with a sharp stop which makes anything else seem off, but perhaps before they had such a round dome with abrupt stops the kind of "in betweeners" were considered rounded and thus to standard. While the wording doesnt seem to have changed much I think the dogs really seem to have. Also there really isnt anything in the standard now or then that directly mentions a 90 degree stop (unless Ive missed it), although thats clearly whats expected now. 
It is interesting to see how breeds evolve over time, and not always in the dogs best interest I think- bulldogs were already mentioned, I think French bulldogs are another example of dogs that can not be born without C section because of their head shape. I would argue that the super short noses, while cute, may also not be in the chis best interest as they do seem to cause problems with dentition. You could make the same argument about hairless Chinese Cresteds, theyre one of my top fav breeds but the same gene that causes them to be hairless also causes them to have very poor dentition, while the puffs have no problems with their teeth.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

I love where this thread has gone it's so interesting!!

With what goes on in the ring it's a lot to do with peoples preferences too I know that I can see a dog and go yuck I no likey and then next thing I know I'm told it's won hahaha I think we all have our own tastes with what we like but I do agree there is still a lot to do with mouths etc


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## ExoticChis (Jun 20, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> Here is a table showing the original standard from 1943 and the changes to the standard which were adopted in 1990.
> 
> Chihuahua Breed Standard, then and now


thanks for posting this link, very interesting


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## Amanda Kennedy (Nov 5, 2008)

biancas muzzle is long, 
brucie is like bianca
cody i think is, to me hes perfect


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

cherper said:


> I think her muzzle is short. Are there really shorter ones?


I really love Leila!! her muzzle is fine it is 1/4 of her head the way it should be. Muzzles are a funny thing, we have breeders that breed for really short ones that look so close to other breeds it isn't funny then you have ones with more old style a little longer but has a great "stop" that makes their head porptioned.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

I gotta ask where this 1/4 of the head came fr maybe it's an American thing idk I know our standards are slight different and we are slightly stricter on some things anyway

British Chihuahua Club

If it doesn't take you to the correct page click on breed standard then a closer look at the chihuahua it breaks down what the standard means!


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Coco doesn't, Ricky and Cali does 

here is a picture of the standard for long coats it is the same just with coat


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

This is Cali stacked
don't have a good one of Ricky best I got


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Daisydoo said:


> I gotta ask where this 1/4 of the head came fr maybe it's an American thing idk I know our standards are slight different and we are slightly stricter on some things anyway
> 
> British Chihuahua Club
> 
> If it doesn't take you to the correct page click on breed standard then a closer look at the chihuahua it breaks down what the standard means!


it is simple show breeders way to describe it! 

The standard leaves room for different opinions which is why we have so many varies of the muzzle
"Head and Skull - Well rounded 'apple dome' skull, cheeks and jaws lean, muzzle moderately short, slightly pointed. Definite stop."

most really short muzzles are not pointed and more wide than needed


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

The '1/4 of the head' thing is american we don't have a 'desired' length of muzzle over here some judges like them long some short. Personally I like muzzles a little wider and shorter, its not a deviation from the standard but a different view on it.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

TripleAChihuahuas said:


> it is simple show breeders way to describe it!
> 
> The standard leaves room for different opinions which is why we have so many varies of the muzzle
> "Head and Skull - Well rounded 'apple dome' skull, cheeks and jaws lean, muzzle moderately short, slightly pointed. Definite stop."
> ...


Yes but it doesn't say 1/4 width of head it must be an American thing. One of my girls came from a show breeder who is also a judge and I have never ever heard her say 1/4 width of head. Both my girls have shorter than that and lotus does have a point muzzle!! I actually really like wide muzzles tho



Lou_lou said:


> The '1/4 of the head' thing is american we don't have a 'desired' length of muzzle over here some judges like them long some short. Personally I like muzzles a little wider and shorter, its not a deviation from the standard but a different view on it.


I love a wide muzzle like perrys and darcy has a wide muzzle too so does bryco if I remember rightly!


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Haha yeah I was just looking at photos of bryco thinking how much I love his little face and darcy looks like perry my 3 favourite looking long coat chi boys on the forum


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## rache (Nov 10, 2009)

Lou_lou said:


> Haha yeah I was just looking at photos of bryco thinking how much I love his little face and darcy looks like perry my 3 favourite looking long coat chi boys on the forum


Awww Thanks Louise! Darcy does have a wide muzzle, I actually prefer them that way to. Now his head has finally grown, Im kicking myself I didnt start him in ringcraft!


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## tricializ (Jun 1, 2010)

Well, the only think I surely know is that Bruiser is NOT to standard. He hovers between 7 -9 pounds, has a way pointed nose and his ears are too small. He also has an overbite. But I love him. 
Maya was too long-legged but her head was good from what I read. She was really tiny though but tall and thin. 
Peach is probably my most 'to standard' chi. She is more cobby than Maya and has a pretty little face. short stop, good ears etc. But I am no expert at all. So I'm sure she has other flaws or Susan never would have sold her to me.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I have heard the 1/4 of the head lingo in the ring as well. I am not sure where it originated but I do hear it used.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Yoshismom said:


> I have heard the 1/4 of the head lingo in the ring as well. I am not sure where it originated but I do hear it used.


Oh I didn't know you show your chihuahuas? Its deffo a american thing, they like muzzles shorter over here and in Europe.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Interesting thread and interesting too to see how chihuahuas have changed over the years!

I'm not too sure about the short muzzle argument - it would be a shame if it was to the detriment of the breed - just imagining the pekinese smushed up muzzles if it went too far!

The British Chihuahua Club states -
Head and Skull
Well rounded 'apple dome' skull, cheeks and jaws lean, muzzle *moderately* short, slightly pointed. Definite stop.

The defintion of moderate is

(adj) moderate 
being within reasonable or average limits; not excessive or extreme.

It probably really depends on the judges as to what they prefer - no matter what country your in - shame that we don't have any expert judges to tell us their opinion!


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

I will txt denise and see if she is free to give some input!


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

flippedstars said:


> Exactly. If people stop BUYING them, eventually it will cut down on the breeding.


Unfortunately they won't - they learn by their mistakes and sell puppies younger than reputable breeders, while they still have the fluffy 'cutie' factor, they have flashy web sites which enhance their reputation, they use 'satisfied customer' quotes and they use reputable breeders names or affixes in their adverts which is pasted EVERYWHERE!
For every buyer who walks away there will be another one - perhaps if the tax man stepped in, they might breed less then
I had the first merle rescue casualty a few months ago (from a breeder who was registered 59 puppies in 4 months! - quantity not quality in this case)
The new owner found this new puppy didn't get on with her current dog but the breeder ignored her calls and she had to call the BCC rescue!)


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

I started reading all the posts and was going to try and input on all if them - started well but skipped a few to the end lol
I think this is a hard question to answer as do you mean the overall dog or just head is like breed standard 

If you have a fab looking dog, perfect head, body, shape etc which looks like the breed standard but weighs 10lb or has a bad mouth - it still looks like a chihuahua but has a fault - the same can be said for a dog that has a fab body, outline and perfect bite but doesn't have the required stop
Don't forget a dog can have a longer muzzle but still has a 90 deg angle giving the correct stop

It is a judges preference and interpretation of the length of the muzzle and what is determined as moderately short

I have a beautiful bitch - perfect head, lovely body fantastic movement excellent tail set - looks like a chihuahua but is undershot - therefore doesn't conform 

I think the question is directed more towards the head which our dogs have as they are classed as a head breed.

I would however much prefer a dog with sound conformation and movement with a plain head than an exaggerated head and crap confirmation and movement 

Hope I haven't waffled on too much


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## Mom of 4 Chi's (Apr 3, 2009)

This thread is so interesting! Thanks for answering my questions and giving your opinions. 

Okay, what I'm understanding from reading through it is that the appearance of the standard chihuahua today hasn't bettered the breed it's just what's in demand in the show ring, so breeders oblige. 
So Chihuahuas that look like the original or earlier Chihuahuas that have longer muzzles, different shaped head, longer legs, etc.... that doesn't necessarily mean they are poorly bred or not bred to standards. It just means us humans made a decision to breed Chihuahuas to conform to this new sought after appearance. Right???


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> Oh I didn't know you show your chihuahuas? Its deffo a american thing, they like muzzles shorter over here and in Europe.


I'm going to agree with this absolutely.
At one point I had no clue about Chihuahua heads and muzzles and the whole lot, however many people have commented on B's head and it is very much like the heads I see on many of of our UK forum members dogs, and it's not really what I saw in stock from 90% of the Canadian breeders I looked at before I purchased B.

That said more than half his breeders client base comes from England and France. So your theory makes a lot of sense to me.
There is a desired difference albeit slight in the UK, owning a dog such as B I have come to quite like it.

I do get asked often "aww so cute what is he/she" people often think he is a mixed breed. 80% of the Chihuahuas one would see in my region are deer headed, and the dogs who are not have longer muzzles and less domed heads. When I tell people he's a long coat Chihuahua they are often surprised because they are not used to seeing that head & muzzle, then the next question is always "where did you get him" :lol:


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Mom of 4 Chi's said:


> This thread is so interesting! Thanks for answering my questions and giving your opinions.
> 
> Okay, what I'm understanding from reading through it is that the appearance of the standard chihuahua today hasn't bettered the breed it's just what's in demand in the show ring, so breeders oblige.
> So Chihuahuas that look like the original or earlier Chihuahuas that have longer muzzles, different shaped head, longer legs, etc.... that doesn't necessarily mean they are poorly bred or not bred to standards. It just means us humans made a decision to breed Chihuahuas to conform to this new sought after appearance. Right???


this has been done with every breed and it is up to the breeder to make sure health and correct breeding is to give a good example of the breed.


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

jesshan said:


> I started reading all the posts and was going to try and input on all if them - started well but skipped a few to the end lol
> I think this is a hard question to answer as do you mean the overall dog or just head is like breed standard
> 
> If you have a fab looking dog, perfect head, body, shape etc which looks like the breed standard but weighs 10lb or has a bad mouth - it still looks like a chihuahua but has a fault - the same can be said for a dog that has a fab body, outline and perfect bite but doesn't have the required stop
> ...


I completely agree with you!
I have seen some Chihuahuas being put up and wondering why? but also with that I would prefer a good movement and healthy over some of the others I have seen win "here"
USA has different opinions but we have the same standards only USA alows more (like mix of coats and merle) I think Perry has a point and a wide muzzle which is very nice, then there is longer muzzles that are most likely not in the ring but doesn't change its a chihuahua. breeding has changed like here they use to prefer a oversized "8 lbs" female for easy labor and hold pups but even that is changing. I will try to get an example picture of what I personally think is a extreme head (most I see are overseas). I wonder why they would do this? breed for a extreme head, there is health problems and jaw problems as well as problems for birthing such a big head. 

The comment of a 1/4 is only a helpful way to describe a nice muzzle portion I don't see why someone would get upset or flustered about it


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Lou_lou said:


> Oh I didn't know you show your chihuahuas? Its deffo a american thing, they like muzzles shorter over here and in Europe.


No I do not show mine. I just have friends that breed and show. I show my Dane so when I am there I always like to cheer my friends on in the ring and ofcourse see all the Chi's


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Cynthia no one is upset or flustered about it just wondering exactly where it came from as it's not stated anywhere nor in any break downs of the standard just seems it's one of this things that someone said so someone thought it was correct absurd stuck in the US not here. 

I do think uk/European dogs look different to the Americans whether that's because there are less and it's harder in the uk to become a champion I don't know but there is a definate distinction between our dogs here. I've seen some pretty rotten looking American champions and wondered how on earth they got finished when if it was my dog I wouldn't even dare to show it! 

Not saying that ours are nicer by the way but just that we seem to have a a certain type over here


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

TripleAChihuahuas said:


> I will try to get an example picture of what I personally think is a extreme head (most I see are overseas). I wonder why they would do this? breed for a extreme head, there is health problems and jaw problems as well as problems for birthing such a big head.


I agree, I like a nice head as much as every one else but some are just far to over done and look ugly. I would also post a photo of what I mean but a lot of people read this forum haha


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Yoshismom said:


> No I do not show mine. I just have friends that breed and show. I show my Dane so when I am there I always like to cheer my friends on in the ring and ofcourse see all the Chi's


Oh I'm not around on here as much as every one else so miss posts lol never know who does what, tho I have seen show photos of your stunning Dane.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> I agree, I like a nice head as much as every one else but some are just far to over done and look ugly. I would also post a photo of what I mean but a lot of people read this forum haha


Playboy


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Daisydoo said:


> Playboy


What are you talking about willis lol


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Ahhh I get it now hahaha she aint no playboy bunny.... Awful head! Far to over done!!


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

I need to see pics of this playboy bunny dog.. :lol:


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

OK here is what I have read...the standard calls for a moderately short muzzle. A moderately short muzzle, defined, I think by AKC, is a muzzle equal to or less than 1/2 the dog's head. 1/3 seems to be the desired length in our area, I consider Leila's to be about 1/3 her head. My PREFERENCE is 1/4 the head, but I personally haven't seen that # anywhere but I'm sure its out there somewhere.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> Ahhh I get it now hahaha she aint no playboy bunny.... Awful head! Far to over done!!


Mildred!!! 



KittyD said:


> I need to see pics of this playboy bunny dog.. :lol:


I'll pm you



flippedstars said:


> OK here is what I have read...the standard calls for a moderately short muzzle. A moderately short muzzle, defined, I think by AKC, is a muzzle equal to or less than 1/2 the dog's head. 1/3 seems to be the desired length in our area, I consider Leila's to be about 1/3 her head. My PREFERENCE is 1/4 the head, but I personally haven't seen that # anywhere but I'm sure its out there somewhere.


I'm gonna get a ruler out after dinner hahaha


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

the 'playboy bunny' is the owner haha will pm you a photo in a bit.
what's brycos muzzle length 1/4? His is what I would call perfect.


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## RosieC (Jul 6, 2010)

jesshan said:


> Don't forget a dog can have a longer muzzle but still has a 90 deg angle giving the correct stop
> 
> It is a judges preference and interpretation of the length of the muzzle and what is determined as moderately short


When I said I don't think Alfie is quite to standard I was (in my ignorance) thinking that a 'fault' meant that the dog is classed as not to standard, but having read what all you more experienced people have written I now understand! So to re-answer, yes Alfie is to standard but he is longer in the muzzle that his prize-winning daddy and so has been classed as less 'perfect'. 

I realise now that I have probably insulted his breeders by saying he wasn't to standard! :noops:


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

can someone pm me the photo of the playboy bunny dog thing I'm curious as to what yous are talking about!! lol xx


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Playboy is a private joke between Louise and I the dogs not actually called playboy haha


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## MyLittleCici (Oct 14, 2010)

aww I thought yous were talking bout a chihuahua with a really big head or something ha


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## glyndwr (Dec 4, 2010)

MyLittleCici said:


> can someone pm me the photo of the playboy bunny dog thing I'm curious as to what yous are talking about!! lol xx


Yes and me please,


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## glyndwr (Dec 4, 2010)

Well , just been having a look at "Big Glyn" as hes known in these parts lol, dont think he really meets the grade, apart from the Hair loss, i can get a thumb and a half on his nose !!!, hes 9 ins tall to the shoulder, and just weighed him and hes 6lbs !!! but to me hes perfect, , oh and hes about 7 months, vet said he was no more than 5 months when i had him so im using that as he was born in june, xx


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Lou_lou said:


> the 'playboy bunny' is the owner haha will pm you a photo in a bit.
> what's brycos muzzle length 1/4? His is what I would call perfect.


Yes his is almost exactly 1/4 of his head, its so small tho, he has not a lot of teeth b'c of it LOL! Thats a major downfall, I think I counted and he has about 26 adult teeth instead of the 42 they say they have, and 12 of those are incisors! So if I breed him it will be to a slightly longer muzzled bitch with a lot more teeth to hopefully correct it in the pups, also to a solid bitch, with good tail  Other than that B is very nice!


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## HollieC (Dec 29, 2009)

My two are part Jack Russells, so definately not standard anything.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Whole thumb?? Lotus doesn't meet m top knuckle He is bigger definitely height and weight him and lotus are dame age she's 3lb 10oz and 7 inch tall to shoulder  with a 9 inch chest she I hope is gonna grow very soon

Eta: gonna measure lotus head to muzzle coz it's funny and makes me laugh and count her teeth!! Any excuse for a wobble on the puppy ones


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I"m going to count Brody's teeth too!! I know he's missing some!


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Yes count them, he only has 2 on the top in the back, as in...2 molars. No pre-molars. He has that gap like Brody! 

His teeth are MEGA FIERCE SHARP tho lol.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Sarah its the width of the thumb not the length!  so like across the knuckle. If a muzzle is shorter than that they say its too short.


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## glyndwr (Dec 4, 2010)

Daisydoo said:


> Whole thumb?? Lotus doesn't meet m top knuckle He is bigger definitely height and weight him and lotus are dame age she's 3lb 10oz and 7 inch tall to shoulder  with a 9 inch chest she I hope is gonna grow very soon
> 
> Eta: gonna measure lotus head to muzzle coz it's funny and makes me laugh and count her teeth!! Any excuse for a wobble on the puppy ones


hahaha no i meant thumb and a half sideways, or if i do it as lenth of thumb he reaches my knuckle lol his chest is .......12ins just measured nose lenth with tape its 1in exactly lol, might try counting teeth later too Ha xx


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

What if u have well skinny fingers WTF 

Anyway

Here's lotus woofing her head off last night after she was stack on sofa so I got a pic she looks nosey she's not it's the angle










Face from above










Muzzle (not happy!!!)


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Ohhh lotus is about 3mm over the width of my bones (kristi u get my point lol)

Daisy has buggered off upstairs to see abi


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I think we should make a new thread about muzzles and teeth.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> I think we should make a new thread about muzzles and teeth.


I did! I have to count the older 3's teeth home on lunch tho !


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Lol off u got Tracey I'll attempt after dinner


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

ok I got sick and wasn't on much but while feeling better thought I should add a picture since I said I would.
I am sorry I don't know why or how anyone can say USA Chihuahuas are different from anywhere else since they came from Mexico and would have to be exported "imported" to other countries. I see very nice looking Chihuahuas all over the world I don't think there is much of a difference(in looks) since lines and showing INTL champions are here and there, also the standard is about thhe same. But I can say because we are closer to where they came from "mexico" we have more breeders which means we have pet quailty often but it doesn't change just because a breeder sent a well bred one from the USA to the UK and now it's a different dog?? yes breeders there might have been limited and bred a certain way so there are slight changes(like smaller ears) but doesn't change where they came from.... 
Now this is just my opinion while others like or love this look I think it is over board for me. He is a BIS Champion very known here and is not only in the USA showing but I believe in mexico and some other places.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

What's that dogs name? He is nice x


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Oh no its not who I was thinking of haha


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## RosieC (Jul 6, 2010)

He's definitely not my preference, the features of his head (apple dome, short muzzle etc.) seem very over-exaggerated- but then as I've said before, I really am not an expert.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

I think he would do well over here,tho I don't like his top line some american champions wouldn't even be considered for the ring over here, I would post pictures of some examples but I believe the breeder who's dogs I'm thinking of comes on here lol.


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

That dog looks like a smooth girl that is shown here i don't know if its the colour or the head that is making me think this though!!

He has a nice head!


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

RosieC said:


> He's definitely not my preference, the features of his head (apple dome, short muzzle etc.) seem very over-exaggerated- but then as I've said before, I really am not an expert.


I agree with you I think his head and neck is over done for my taste but like I said some like that and others don't but this is where you have room for different varities and opinions of what the standard is.


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## glyndwr (Dec 4, 2010)

Thats not my cup of tea im afraid, the majority of dogs on here are far nicer , really dont like that bull head, but im no breeder, just like the cuteties.....


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> I think he would do well over here,tho I don't like his top line some american champions wouldn't even be considered for the ring over here, I would post pictures of some examples but I believe the breeder who's dogs I'm thinking of comes on here lol.


I actually saw this boy in person at a speciality show and know his topline is strong and movement is very nice, I think the table is odd(slant) if you look at it so might make it look odd.
I have friends that show here and their dogs are shipped to other countries and don't have a problem being a champion in other countries. I will try to find a picture but it takes a lot of time to shift through files and pics, I don't want to ask them for that info. Have you ever heard of Fandago line? 
or what are the popular lines over there? I bet I can dig far enough I will find a couple CH that are from here in the lines over there.


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## TheJewelKitten (Nov 20, 2010)

lolNO.

Taco is not to breed standard. XD


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

RosieC said:


> He's definitely not my preference, the features of his head (apple dome, short muzzle etc.) seem very over-exaggerated- but then as I've said before, I really am not an expert.


That is why he makes such a fabulous stud though...exaggerated features mean that he can be bred to a dam without such exaggerated ones and get puppies that are spot on.


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## glyndwr (Dec 4, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> That is why he makes such a fabulous stud though...exaggerated features mean that he can be bred to a dam without such exaggerated ones and get puppies that are spot on.


Very good point, i never thought of that


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> That is why he makes such a fabulous stud though...exaggerated features mean that he can be bred to a dam without such exaggerated ones and get puppies that are spot on.


I wish I could agree but no breeding is a guessing game the only way you will get puppies that will be close to his traits if one of the two things 
1. tight line bred or 2.a girl with same traits.
the reason is the puppies of a litter can and will get grandparents on either side to come out (that's why we get so many colors and ect) 
funny because it was believed if you have a champion sire and dam the litter will be just as awesome as the parents well no that's not true you can get a litter of "pet quality" out of them as well. example grandma is ok not a champion grandpa is a chmpion, the grandmas looks can come out in that litter as well as grandpa it is a toss up. so that is the reason for line breeding we fix the problems(toplines, rear, fronts, heads, ect.) by doing this and since it is line bred no outside you know you what you will get. 
Now I agree he can improve a litter but that is only b'c some "might" take his side(genes) but no promise


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

TripleAChihuahuas said:


> I actually saw this boy in person at a speciality show and know his topline is strong and movement is very nice, I think the table is odd(slant) if you look at it so might make it look odd.
> I have friends that show here and their dogs are shipped to other countries and don't have a problem being a champion in other countries. I will try to find a picture but it takes a lot of time to shift through files and pics, I don't want to ask them for that info. Have you ever heard of Fandago line?
> or what are the popular lines over there? I bet I can dig far enough I will find a couple CH that are from here in the lines over there.


can you pm me his name, just so i can see his face from the front.
im not in any way saying that our dogs are nicer. there are some very nice american champions, look at jessicas boy that she imported, he is just stunning and so is his brother BISS GCh rafina designer genes is stunning, also just had a nosey at fandago website and some on there are nice and some are not so much, a bit leggy a judge wouldnt even place them here. i think a British champion is sooo much different that getting one over sea's, its not like we have small entries 150 to 200 long coats and a bit less for smooth for a championship show and you have to beat all the dogs including the other champions to get the cc and you need 3 to get you title, its next to impossible there are only about 8 or 9 champions made up a year in both breeds in the whole country! the american championship sounds like our junior warrant. if you do enough shows and win enough then you will get it. becoming a champion is supposed to shows who is of good breeding stock but it doesn't work like that here unfortunately. i think our dog look more the same because its a smaller country and we have a smaller gene pool, its so expensive to import and some breeders are quite 'tight' with there stud dogs that are from imported lines lol 
this is a example of what is winning over here, Long Coat championship show dog results 2010 they are all very similar. if you click on the photo there names will appear.


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> can you pm me his name, just so i can see his face from the front.
> im not in any way saying that our dogs are nicer. there are some very nice american champions, look at jessicas boy that she imported, he is just stunning and so is his brother BISS GCh rafina designer genes is stunning, also just had a nosey at fandago website and some on there are nice and some are not so much, a bit leggy a judge wouldnt even place them here. i think a British champion is sooo much different that getting one over sea's, its not like we have small entries 150 to 200 long coats and a bit less for smooth for a championship show and you have to beat all the dogs including the other champions to get the cc and you need 3 to get you title, its next to impossible there are only about 8 or 9 champions made up a year in both breeds in the whole country! the american championship sounds like our junior warrant. if you do enough shows and win enough then you will get it. becoming a champion is supposed to shows who is of good breeding stock but it doesn't work like that here unfortunately. i think our dog look more the same because its a smaller country and we have a smaller gene pool, its so expensive to import and some breeders are quite 'tight' with there stud dogs that are from imported lines lol
> this is a example of what is winning over here, Long Coat championship show dog results 2010 they are all very similar. if you click on the photo there names will appear.


The link didn't work for me. I don't doubt winning in any country would be easy as we(USA) spend thousands of dollars to show and try to earn their champion title and/or grand also a great honor to show at the westminister 
(which is like crufts but here) I agree height is a problem here. A very well know breeder lines that is in a lot of our chihuahuas today is "Ouachitah" the other is "Mar-Rich"
here is his front and side view.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

LCCC Ch Show '10 - The Longcoat Chihuahua Club
does it work now?
oh i dont like how deep his stop is, he has a lovely head tho, can say i have heard of those lines.


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> LCCC Ch Show '10 - The Longcoat Chihuahua Club
> does it work now?
> oh i dont like how deep his stop is, he has a lovely head tho, can say i have heard of those lines.


dang it I can't get the link to work at all 

is there a way to search(google) it? key word? I will try to see if i can find it. 

yes that is what I mean extreme LOL but it is out there because of different opinions what the chihuahuas head should look like


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## glyndwr (Dec 4, 2010)

TripleAChihuahuas said:


> The link didn't work for me. I don't doubt winning in any country would be easy as we(USA) spend thousands of dollars to show and try to earn their champion title and/or grand also a great honor to show at the westminister
> (which is like crufts but here) I agree height is a problem here. A very well know breeder lines that is in a lot of our chihuahuas today is "Ouachitah" the other is "Mar-Rich"
> here is his front and side view.


from a pet owner only view, .I think the above Chi has the features of a pug, please dont think im being rude , just my opinion, the ones on the link above are the Chi`s that im use to seeing over here., hope you dont mind me commenting on this thread but find it very interesting...


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## Hiccup (Nov 5, 2010)

Daisydoo said:


> Ok so a few comments the other day made me wonder how many of us actually know what a chihuahua to standard should look like??
> 
> So what I want to know is do you think your dog is to the chihuahua breed standard??


Yes I understand the AKC standard but I am proud of my "Deer". Now before someone jumps on me I am fine with the ACK standard of the Chi but my personal preference is long and lean so I am comfortable calling Hiccup a deer. When people ask me about him I explain the standard and how he is not perfect. Funny how humans fight to embrace their unique qualities but in the dog world humans fight to confine perfection.

Hiccup has the dear shaped head, long legs (12 inches at the shoulder), long body, and at four months weighs a skinny 6 pounds.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Great link and very beautiful! I had a look at the Fandango site as well and I saw some very nice chi's but would have to agree that I felt some were more deserving their championships more than others. But all were beautiful. Same with Great Danes here in the US. There are some that win and I just dont understand? I think the boy posted is a bit over done in some areas.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

TripleAChihuahuas said:


> dang it I can't get the link to work at all
> 
> is there a way to search(google) it? key word? I will try to see if i can find it.
> 
> yes that is what I mean extreme LOL but it is out there because of different opinions what the chihuahuas head should look like


the photos are copy written so i will save them and pm you them


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## *Chloe* (Feb 6, 2006)

TripleAChihuahuas said:


> dang it I can't get the link to work at all
> 
> is there a way to search(google) it? key word? I will try to see if i can find it.
> 
> yes that is what I mean extreme LOL but it is out there because of different opinions what the chihuahuas head should look like


does this work Home - The Longcoat Chihuahua Club then go to LCCC Ch Show'10


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

nope link didn't work but Lou_lou pm pictures so I could see =)
a few are nice but I don't think if they were in the ring here that I would be able to tell them from ours. Maybe I am blind to beauty?? 
here is some of my personal pictures I took of chihuahuas shown here
She is a GCH(grand champion and is top ranked)








This boy is also GCH and top ranked (I like this boy more as he isn't extreme like the other)








and the westiminster of 2010 long coats: Chihuahua (Long Coat) > Videos > Westminster Kennel Club
and smooth: Chihuahua (Smooth Coat) > Videos > Westminster Kennel Club
hope they work


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I wonder why you cannot view the links? Everyone posted I could view?


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

My point was how similar they all are, the american dogs in the ring seem to vary a lot in size, length and all round quality


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Yoshismom said:


> I wonder why you cannot view the links? Everyone posted I could view?


not sure it tries to go takes awhile then it said internet explorer cannot display. are you talking about the link Lou_lou posted not the pictures I posted right?


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Hiccup said:


> Yes I understand the AKC standard but I am proud of my "Deer". Now before someone jumps on me I am fine with the ACK standard of the Chi but my personal preference is long and lean so I am comfortable calling Hiccup a deer. When people ask me about him I explain the standard and how he is not perfect. Funny how humans fight to embrace their unique qualities but in the dog world humans fight to confine perfection.
> 
> Hiccup has the dear shaped head, long legs (12 inches at the shoulder), long body, and at four months weighs a skinny 6 pounds.


there is nothing wrong with that at all. my husband prefers that look more than what is out there today being shown. I have my first chihuahua I love dearly does she fit the standard NO but that is what is so wonderful about this breed it has so many different looks but all in all still chihuahua. 
what I think gets everyone off track is every breed we know today was bred with something else to make it what it is today. The chihuahua did not look like it does today and why b'c when it cam to america from mexico breeders then decided to change the look. Until they prove other wise this is what we know.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

TripleAChihuahuas said:


> nope link didn't work but Lou_lou pm pictures so I could see =)
> a few are nice but I don't think if they were in the ring here that I would be able to tell them from ours. Maybe I am blind to beauty??
> here is some of my personal pictures I took of chihuahuas shown here
> She is a GCH(grand champion and is top ranked)
> ...


I'll agree to disagree with you on that tbh everyone is entitled to their own opinion I could pick holes in the dogs you posted but I won't!! And FYI one of those dogs is mine, another is chloe's!


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I dunno what his full reg'd name is but the boy is CH Yumm. Kyle Potts, the president of the Chi club of America owns him.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Yoshismom said:


> Great link and very beautiful! I had a look at the Fandango site as well and I saw some very nice chi's but would have to agree that I felt some were more deserving their championships more than others. But all were beautiful. Same with Great Danes here in the US. There are some that win and I just dont understand? I think the boy posted is a bit over done in some areas.


Thanks I'm very proud of my boy as is chloe  was a good day for us  x


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> My point was how similar they all are, the american dogs in the ring seem to vary a lot in size, length and all round quality


ummmm I saw a difference in the ones you showed as well the first two have much better heads then the 3rd and can't tell anything from last two as ladies were holding them. the first didn't have a good stack couldn't tell much the best out of those would be the 5th in my opinion.
I can get a few pictures of chihuahuas here that look similar to each other as in height, weight, head, coats, ect but what would this do? 
are you saying that every chihuahua in the crufts or show ring in the UK has exactly same qualities(height, weight, head, coat and so on)? because thats odd I would love to visit and measure, weigh and examine and find out how that is possible
like we said chihuahuas is more limited in other countries and less pet breeders? but I was searching some classifieds for the UK of chihuahuas and they look like ours funny the way some talk on here you would think there wouldn't be mix breeders over there LOL 
I just don't understand the difference maybe it is me? I agree there is variety here but that doesn't mean they will get far in the show ring or even be showing
added to say everyone has good days and others not


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> I'll agree to disagree with you on that tbh everyone is entitled to their own opinion I could pick holes in the dogs you posted but I won't!! And FYI one of those dogs is mine, another is chloe's!


Oh I don't believe every dog is perfect I think we can all see faults in ours or others. this is where we learn so honesty is fine I don't own these dogs and seems no matter what do I put up you will find a fault which is fine b'c again NONE are perfect! I have told you I like Perry's looks and I have seen really nice ones that Chloe owns and she has done well with her dogs!!! Also I know a lot of show breeders here with beauties. But MY point was I can't see a true difference between american and UK Chihuahuas and that all are beautiful yes there will be faults and bad breeding this is because of people not the fault of the dog or breed and when we ask is YOUR CHIHUAHUA FIT THE STANDARD this doesn't mean to a "T" there will be faults and things as breeders we will try to fix.


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> I dunno what his full reg'd name is but the boy is CH Yumm. Kyle Potts, the president of the Chi club of America owns him.


Multi BISS CH Yuum Gomez


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

There is a certain "look" that is common to the UK dogs. The USA does NOT have a standardized "look" at all. You will likely see many more variations in type and structure and heads here than you would over there. As pointed out, that could be due to the smaller gene pool over in the UK. 

As a whole, I think the UK dogs that are being shown now could come over here and win easily. I do NOT think the opposite is true. There are dogs winning here that would be laughed out of the ring under the UK system. 

Part of that is due to the CC system in the UK which is very strict. Anyone here with a 'decent' dog and who has money and a professional handler WILL FINISH the dog. It may take some time, but yes - it will happen. 

A really good representative of the breed SHOULD be able to win in any country, but they are few and far between. 

TripleA- how long have you been showing?


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Fact: The US is equal to 39 United Kingdoms.

Therefore, we have far more dogs. Our gene pools are much more open. Therefore...we are going to have a MUCH greater variation here, and it WILL continue because there are just too many dogs. 

I don't think there is any validity in comparing the 2. The UK has 12 new LC champions last year. We had a similar equivalent here. I don't believe it is easier or harder, I just don't think it's comparable.

Certain breeders here have produced consistent type and look and could easily take a dog anywhere in the world and win. Some do. But other, smaller breeders introduce so many outcrosses they were NEVER get consistency. Many do not line breed the way that they should and that is a MUST for creating type and consistency.

I think it's kind of a moot argument/comparison to compare the 2, purely from the genepool stand point...but maybe that's just me.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> There is a certain "look" that is common to the UK dogs. The USA does NOT have a standardized "look" at all. You will likely see many more variations in type and structure and heads here than you would over there. As pointed out, that could be due to the smaller gene pool over in the UK.
> 
> As a whole, I think the UK dogs that are being shown now could come over here and win easily. I do NOT think the opposite is true. There are dogs winning here that would be laughed out of the ring under the UK system.
> 
> ...


Haha this is what I was trying to say, just couldn't word it as well  I never once implied that all our dogs in this country are fantastic, look at the state of my girl baby he pedigree isn't worth the paper its written on haha, just that what is being shown is of a similar quality as people with dogs that are say a bit leggy would just get looked over and at over a 100pounds a show (including fuel and entrys ect) its just not worth it because its sooo hard to win anything.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Lol...and just another random fact... The UK's foundation for the LC chis over there came from US bred dogs... This page is reserved for History.

The key to better type? LINE BREED! CREATE TYPE. KEEP GENE POOL LIMITED. The buck stops there, lol.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

flippedstars said:


> Fact: The US is equal to 39 United Kingdoms.
> 
> Therefore, we have far more dogs. Our gene pools are much more open. Therefore...we are going to have a MUCH greater variation here, and it WILL continue because there are just too many dogs.
> 
> ...


You do have a good point I did say earlier our all are the same type because our gene pool is a lot smaller. 
Also just to correct you there were 7 long coat champions made up last year in the uk,
Hollyels diamond geeza JW 
Diella buccaneer (bob at crufts)
Tidos dashed if I know JW ShCM
Ridgehawk shepard
Hollyels topaz angel JW
Alltoyways saucy sue of Tidos
Leyju amor zinnia
I dug out my chihuahua chronicles  x


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

The UK system of creating champions and the US system are worlds apart. It is much much much harder to create a champion in the UK than it is here. There is a HUGE difference in the system. 

I have no doubt that many dogs that earned their championships here would NOT be able to earn their championship in the UK.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I mean it's kinda like people. English people, German people, Irish people...they all have a look. Not that you look the same, but you can generally guess if someone's from one of those places.

Here our people are this total hodgepodge. Our gene pool is much more diverse and hahaha we breed to those dif. pools, of course you get some similarities, but yeah. 

I will have to get the exact # of new CH we had in 2010 when the #'s come out, but for land size I was only saying we had 6, and considering half our land here not part of it, as we have some wilderness. There really is no comparison because that'd be like saying there are 15 chihuahuas per every 100 people in the showing/breeding pool. I just don't think you can compare, other than simply saying...your gene pool in the UK is logically more closed and therefore results in more consistent type & there's nothing wrong w/ that! We have regions here with a more consistent type and then certain states have the crapshoot dogs.


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> There is a certain "look" that is common to the UK dogs. The USA does NOT have a standardized "look" at all. You will likely see many more variations in type and structure and heads here than you would over there. As pointed out, that could be due to the smaller gene pool over in the UK.
> 
> As a whole, I think the UK dogs that are being shown now could come over here and win easily. I do NOT think the opposite is true. There are dogs winning here that would be laughed out of the ring under the UK system.
> 
> ...


I didn't say it was easy by any means but could be done or has YES! could one from another country not just UK come here and win sure but why is it the person holding the lead or the dog? that is our #1 problem!!! the standard is open to opinions and do we here have more to work with yes again but the uk chihuahuas have smaller ears yes there will be those difference as in breeding but the over all look to our nice quality chi to there's is there a difference big enough to say oh theirs is a chihuahua and that american thing is not???? 

I have started showing just last year my mentors 35+ years and I know some of the top show people and when I get out more I will know more, does this make me an expert no way.... 
I am part of a couple chihuahua groups, have friends that are active memebers Chihuahua Club of America, friends that are show/breeders and handlers I have been reseaching and learning about the overall chihuahua for 3 yrs NO I don't study or research chihuahuas of ther countries or UK so this is a learning for me to hear UK and americans don't have the same breed (this is what I am hearing) or we don't compare to theirs at all why???
can you name one that came from the UK that has came here and won it's champion title by it's owner/breeder?
How long have you been showing chihuahuas Brodysmom? how many shows do you attend watching the chihuahuas every year? I think if you watch the westminister videos I think there is common "look" to them, there will always be faults in ANY dog ANY where!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

You said ....
but why is it the person holding the lead or the dog? that is our #1 problem!!!

This country has a lot of professional handlers. A PH can handle and finish just about any dog if you have the right resources to PAY for it. They know the judges, they know who owes them favors, etc. Is it right? No. But yes, it happens and it happens regularly.

You said ...
the standard is open to opinions and do we here have more to work with yes again but the uk chihuahuas have smaller ears yes there will be those difference as in breeding but the over all look to our nice quality chi to there's is there a difference big enough to say oh theirs is a chihuahua and that american thing is not???? 

Ok, I've read this sentence several times and I'm still not sure what you mean. Yes, the standard is open to opinions and preferences. That's why every day is a new day at a dog show. You might win on Friday and be dumped on Saturday. It is up to the judge as to how they interpret the standard. I have not noticed that UK Chi's have smaller ears than US Chi's. I would never say there is so much difference that you can't tell what breed a dog is in another country, if that's what you are saying?

You said .... 
NO I don't study or research chihuahuas of ther countries or UK so this is a learning for me to hear UK and americans don't have the same breed (this is what I am hearing) or we don't compare to theirs at all why???

Who has said that they are not the same breed??? I don't understand what you are saying at all.

You said ....
can you name one that came from the UK that has came here and won it's champion title by it's owner/breeder?

Not off the top of my head. Can you?

You said ....
How long have you been showing chihuahuas Brodysmom? how many shows do you attend watching the chihuahuas every year? I think if you watch the westminister videos I think there is common "look" to them, there will always be faults in ANY dog ANY where!

I don't show Chihuahua's. Never have. But I have been involved in the dog show world for years. Over 15+ years and finished obedience and therapy titles on several breeds as well as putting a championship on my french bulldog, owner handled all the way, with 2 group placements. In addition, I have been on the Board of Directors for our local all breed kennel club and held offices as secretary and show chairman for a specialty show for years. Are you involved in your local all breed club Cynthia? Because if you aren't - it's a great way to meet committed and knowledgeable people and to get a true "behind the scenes" look at dog shows and how they work. I highly recommend it! As for how many shows I attended? Dang - probably in the hundreds if not more. I was a ring steward at many of the local shows and enjoyed that. Another great way to get involved that I highly recommend! 

Gosh, all this in response to me asking how long you have been showing dogs! Wow!


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

CH bramerita naughty but nice won her american championship (I think) and is the uk's top winning dog of all time. I'm not sure who handles her tho.


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## LovesMyPups (Apr 18, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> CH bramerita naughty but nice won her american championship (I think) and is the uk's top winning dog of all time. I'm not sure who handles her tho.


Very interesting! 
In light of this fact, I would be VERY curious to see if anyone tells us if there has been an "American" champion chihuahua who has obtained the title in UK later?

Also, I think it's silly to say "American" chihuahuas and "UK" chihuahuas aren't the same breed...? Peoples' preferences vary and the judges judging them are just people.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Her owner shelda hornby handled her herself! Who needs a handler when you have the most perfect bitch!!
http://www.disangimignano.com/bramerita/update0206/AKC NATIONAL.jpg
Don't know if that link will work


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

It worked but is very small picture. You can get the general idea from it though ;-)


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

I don't know of any american to uk champions but logan is only one cc away! And he has only been here a few months. He is a top quality dog and will no doubt get it in the next few months


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Yoshismom said:


> It worked but is very small picture. You can get the general idea from it though ;-)


Haha sorry I'm on my phone so it looked a decent size haha x


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> Lol...and just another random fact... The UK's foundation for the LC chis over there came from US bred dogs... This page is reserved for History.
> 
> The key to better type? LINE BREED! CREATE TYPE. KEEP GENE POOL LIMITED. The buck stops there, lol.


This is very true but see in UK line breeding wasn't looked down on as it is here, yes we a lot of it in the oldies but since it was looked down at it slowed or stopped. Also there was health problems with the really tight line breeding that wasn't it worth it. Other countries are limited and with that there will be the tight line breeding.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

TripleAChihuahuas said:


> This is very true but see in UK line breeding wasn't looked down on as it is here, yes we a lot of it in the oldies but since it was looked down at it slowed or stopped. Also there was health problems with the really tight line breeding that wasn't it worth it. Other countries are limited and with that there will be the tight line breeding.


The majority of breeders I know still line breed and know the importance in it. I know some frown upon it but any of the big time breeders as well as the one's they mentor are still line breeding.


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

I know of an Amercian Champion who is Irish Champion and Uk Champion and International Champion 

He is owned by Wilma and Patsy who i travel too shows with GB/IR/BISS AM/INT Champion Emerald Lord of the Dance at Keenaughts Sh CM!!!


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Yoshismom said:


> The majority of breeders I know still line breed and know the importance in it. I know some frown upon it but any of the big time breeders as well as the one's they mentor are still line breeding.


Yes same here, pretty much all breeders I know with the exception of a few (who have no consistency with type) line breed, I have a bitch her who is being breed with my boy, her breeder choose perry as stud because there lines are a good match.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

freedomchis said:


> I know of an Amercian Champion who is Irish Champion and Uk Champion and International Champion
> 
> He is owned by Wilma and Patsy who i travel too shows with GB/IR/BISS AM/INT Champion Emerald Lord of the Dance at Keenaughts Sh CM!!!


Ahhh I was just looking at Wilma and patsy's page in the chronicles and totally looked passed the american champion bit.
Stunning dog <3


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> You said ....
> but why is it the person holding the lead or the dog? that is our #1 problem!!!
> 
> This country has a lot of professional handlers. A PH can handle and finish just about any dog if you have the right resources to PAY for it. They know the judges, they know who owes them favors, etc. Is it right? No. But yes, it happens and it happens regularly.
> ...


Cali had limited showing last year first time out was all my own mistakes(nervous) or she would have placed better the next time which was in Dec. fri- 1st place and winners Sat 1st place and on sunday my 6 yr old daughter showed her and got 2nd place (and I am new don't know many judges or have connections)
I think I know and learn a lot about the behind the scenes here in the USA I will be contacting a friend in the UK to fill in any holes I might be blinded too

Tracy have you been to the UK and watched in person any of the shows?


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

freedomchis said:


> I know of an Amercian Champion who is Irish Champion and Uk Champion and International Champion
> 
> He is owned by Wilma and Patsy who i travel too shows with GB/IR/BISS AM/INT Champion Emerald Lord of the Dance at Keenaughts Sh CM!!!


wow he is very nice looking!!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Wow, that's great for a puppy! How many points does she have now? She's off to a good start it sounds like. You should look at juniors for your daughter if she likes to show, it's an awesome program. 

No, I've never been to the UK. Would love to go though. I believe all their shows are benched? Totally different atmosphere and something I'd love to experience.


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> Her owner shelda hornby handled her herself! Who needs a handler when you have the most perfect bitch!!
> http://www.disangimignano.com/bramerita/update0206/AKC NATIONAL.jpg
> Don't know if that link will work


nice looking as well is kinda small makes muzzle look really short can you find another picture


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> Wow, that's great for a puppy! How many points does she have now? She's off to a good start it sounds like. You should look at juniors for your daughter if she likes to show, it's an awesome program.
> 
> No, I've never been to the UK. Would love to go though. I believe all their shows are benched? Totally different atmosphere and something I'd love to experience.


Thank you we are proud of her no matter what I want the exprenice it has been a goal for 3 yrs to do this and now having the time I hope I can continue. She has 1 point towards her CH title not much but I can say we are getting there slowly as a total of 5 days shown last year this year we have more shows and traveling lined up, most shows are 3+ hours away.
I think Angie will when old enough but for now she is having fun with it. 


















I too would like to see it first hand I am not one to talk out of my butt and this might be where I see them equal. we have nice quality and other countries do as well


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

TripleAChihuahuas said:


> nice looking as well is kinda small makes muzzle look really short can you find another picture


Just search in google, bramerita naughty but nice there will be loads of photos


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Breaking news! LOL. 

I contacted the Chihuahua Club of America and asked for a breakdown on champions produced during 2010. 

Here's the numbers .... 397 new Chi champions in the US for 2010.

204 Long Coats and 193 Smooth Coats completed their championship through November 2010.

Contrast that to the 12 or so champions in the UK, it is a staggering difference.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> Wow, that's great for a puppy! How many points does she have now? She's off to a good start it sounds like. You should look at juniors for your daughter if she likes to show, it's an awesome program.
> 
> No, I've never been to the UK. Would love to go though. I believe all their shows are benched? Totally different atmosphere and something I'd love to experience.


Haha the good old benches ay! where all the drama and bitching happens!!! 
So no benching over there then? Where do you put you dogs and stuff when you want to go shopping! Haha 
You should definitely come over!! Come for crufts! its amazing x


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> Breaking news! LOL.
> 
> I contacted the Chihuahua Club of America and asked for a breakdown on champions produced during 2010.
> 
> ...


OMG that's loads, I'm sending perry to stay with Kristi  she will make him up for me haha I have no chance over here
There were 7 long coat and 5 smooth coat champions made up last year (2009) this years chronicles comes out at crufts so will find out 2010's champions numbers then


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Lou_lou said:


> Haha the good old benches ay! where all the drama and bitching happens!!!
> So no benching over there then? Where do you put you dogs and stuff when you want to go shopping! Haha
> You should definitely come over!! Come for crufts! its amazing x


I think there are only a couple shows in the US that are benched. The vast majority aren't. We have crating areas, but dogs and people are in and out all the time. When I was showing, we'd just take turns watching the dogs while friends went shopping or to watch other breeds. Dang, all this talking of dog shows is making me miss it. I may have to cave in and buy something to show again. HA HA.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> Breaking news! LOL.
> 
> I contacted the Chihuahua Club of America and asked for a breakdown on champions produced during 2010.
> 
> ...


Hahha this is where I'm going to play Devil's advocate..

The US is 39 x bigger than the UK. That means 39 x 12 = 468. We had 397.

Now...I know there are holes in that. But Just putting it out there. I think we have more "open space" than the UK, which alters the #'s. 

That's not that I am arguing to say it's easier or harder either place lol. Just saying...that's all


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Lou_lou said:


> OMG that's loads, I'm sending perry to stay with Kristi  she will make him up for me haha I have no chance over here
> There were 7 long coat and 5 smooth coat champions made up last year (2009) this years chronicles comes out at crufts so will find out 2010's champions numbers then


You can send him to me if you want! As long as I get a free stud fee out of it ha ha haaaa.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> I think there are only a couple shows in the US that are benched. The vast majority aren't. We have crating areas, but dogs and people are in and out all the time. When I was showing, we'd just take turns watching the dogs while friends went shopping or to watch other breeds. Dang, all this talking of dog shows is making me miss it. I may have to cave in and buy something to show again. HA HA.


YES, DO IT!!!! Brody needs a friend and I need more people posting show photos!  x


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

flippedstars said:


> You can send him to me if you want! As long as I get a free stud fee out of it ha ha haaaa.


Haha you haven't see his pups yet! They might all turn out like parson russel terriers with no coat!! Haha my worst fear eeeek


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## lynx8456 (Feb 26, 2009)

Anyone who has seen Jasper knows that he is now where near the "standard" but all his imperfections make him perfect in our book and that is all that counts! Hannah use to be standard but now she is older and a bit over weight. Moose we have yet to see what will happen....only time will tell!


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Here are a few pics of my friends Chi's that she gave me permission to post 
Here is a collage a collage she created.










This is sage and She was Best BBE in Breed at the Nationals, she was also Reserve Winners Bitch!


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## cherper (May 8, 2009)

aww very cute!!!  Sage is gorgeous!


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Yoshismom said:


> Here are a few pics of my friends Chi's that she gave me permission to post
> Here is a collage a collage she created.
> 
> 
> ...


Carla Soto wonderful handler/breeder watched her show "Peter" I wish I could have stayed for long coats that was a two day speciality and I was just popping in to see what it was like on Sat., I hope to have Cali and hopefully a new girl to be shown this year at the speciality in Chicago. Sage is beautiful as so a lot in the college great job!


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> OMG that's loads, I'm sending perry to stay with Kristi  she will make him up for me haha I have no chance over here
> There were 7 long coat and 5 smooth coat champions made up last year (2009) this years chronicles comes out at crufts so will find out 2010's champions numbers then


I agree with Kristi I think it is a more land area and we are closer to where they came from.
Ok how many Chihuahuas entered per year? how many chihuahua KC breeders is there in the UK? I am going to have to do some research this intrigues me to find out more on how and why? 
I still don't see a difference between ours vs yours as in looks I can see there is less champions there and more line breeding so I will look into why less. could it be because it is a newer breed to you than us? 
like I said I need to do some info look up.


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> Just search in google, bramerita naughty but nice there will be loads of photos


she is very nice looking I remember something about she would have trouble givin birth b'c being so short bodied sad as she is very nice but that is our problem we breed for that goal (champion) and loose mind that the purpose this is for good breeding stock the reason we do it in the first place. like the extreme heads can give hard birthing, when will it be too much?


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I am wondering why you do not think there is as much line breeding here? I talked to Carla this evening and she said that there are occasional out crossings but everyone still depends on line breeding for the most part. I know that Dane breeders still line breed here. I cant imagine how the lines would not fall apart here without it? It is the only way to know what your breedings carry for in the health, temperment, etc... department.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Yoshismom said:


> I am wondering why you do not think there is as much line breeding here? I talked to Carla this evening and she said that there are occasional out crossings but everyone still depends on line breeding for the most part. I know that Dane breeders still line breed here. I cant imagine how the lines would not fall apart here without it? It is the only way to know what your breedings carry for in the health, temperment, etc... department.


Many of the big time breeders here do it, but the smaller breeders often don't because they don't have the resources/dogs to do it.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I am talking about the US as a whole when I say here not just NC. But that is a good point Kristi. I guess I just assume even the smaller breeders that are into showing have been mentored by someone and they share resources.

Wow! This has been a very informative topic


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Line breeding is the only way to cement type. But it also doubles up on faults, so you have to really research your lines and know what you are doing. This is why a mentor is so important. And by mentor, I mean someone who has bred for at least 10 years, has raised multiple generations, put championships on their dogs. Not someone who has been breeding pet quality or doesn't show their dogs. A true mentor is invaluable.


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> Line breeding is the only way to cement type. But it also doubles up on faults, so you have to really research your lines and know what you are doing. This is why a mentor is so important. And by mentor, I mean someone who has bred for at least 10 years, has raised multiple generations, put championships on their dogs. Not someone who has been breeding pet quality or doesn't show their dogs. A true mentor is invaluable.


This is very true!!! you double up on faults and also really heavy line breeding there is health problems for pups. there is ways to do this but it isn't easy and at what cost. Yes a lot of the oldies and great show breeders line breed often but you can't expect every breeder to believe in this as this would be like father and daughter(tight) or just line bred grandparent to off spring (more common) people (breeders) that just breed wouldn't know why this is important. you can get an outside male breed it keep a son breed back to mom or keep a female and breed to grandparent of either this is a lot of research that I wish breeders would do but you can't think everyone will. 
I agree a mentor that has been through a lot and doing it for years is a wonderful way to start.

Like Cali is very small compared to her lines and they aren't close so I don't plan on line breeding yet but to keep an offspring and breed back some way later yes. if some how I can line breed I will try for her grandfather I love him =) 
distance is a problem sometimes


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

TripleAChihuahuas said:


> she is very nice looking I remember something about she would have trouble givin birth b'c being so short [/B]bodied sad as she is very nice but that is our problem we breed for that goal (champion) and loose mind that the purpose this is for good breeding stock the reason we do it in the first place. like the extreme heads can give hard birthing, when will it be too much?


I wasn't going to respond but this totally contradicts your previous post about breeding and how it all comes from their ancestors etc etc! Bramerita naughty but nices litter mates have been bred so technically if what you're saying is true then the fact doughnut herself wasn't bred due to size wouldnt matter? 

That boy has a fabulous head.. I hate his stop he looks like a pug where it's soo deep and the angle is less than 90 degrees



Brodysmom said:


> Line breeding is the only way to cement type. But it also doubles up on faults, so you have to really research your lines and know what you are doing. This is why a mentor is so important. And by mentor, I mean someone who has bred for at least 10 years, has raised multiple generations, put championships on their dogs. Not someone who has been breeding pet quality or doesn't show their dogs. A true mentor is invaluable.


This is so true Tracy but good line breeding breeds out the faults.. It's a long process and very hard to do but I believe it's do-able 



TripleAChihuahuas said:


> This is very true!!! you double up on faults and also really heavy line breeding there is health problems for pups. there is ways to do this but it isn't easy and at what cost. Yes a lot of the oldies and great show breeders line breed often but you can't expect every breeder to believe in this as this would be like father and daughter(tight) or just line bred grandparent to off spring (more common) people (breeders) that just breed wouldn't know why this is important. you can get an outside male breed it keep a son breed back to mom or keep a female and breed to grandparent of either this is a lot of research that I wish breeders would do but you can't think everyone will.
> I agree a mentor that has been through a lot and doing it for years is a wonderful way to start.
> 
> Like Cali is very small compared to her lines and they aren't close so I don't plan on line breeding yet but to keep an offspring and breed back some way later yes. if some how I can line breed I will try for her grandfather I love him =)
> distance is a problem sometimes


I'm not sure of the akc rules on line breeding buy we aren't allowed to breed mother to son here or brother to sister we can do half brother to half sister though. 

I sound like I'm picking I'm not but you've had very strong opinions in this thread and it's te only ones I can pick apart as I disagree with a lot you have said and you've said loads about breeding to improve the breed etc and that as breeders you try to fix faults so can I ask why you've bred your smooth coat to which earlier in this thread you said was not to standard? I don't mean to sound rude but it just goes against everything else you've said about breeding so I'm quite interested


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

[/QUOTE] I sound like I'm picking I'm not but you've had very strong opinions in this thread and it's te only ones I can pick apart as I disagree with a lot you have said and you've said loads about breeding to improve the breed etc and that as breeders you try to fix faults so can I ask why you've bred your smooth coat to which earlier in this thread you said was not to standard? I don't mean to sound rude but it just goes against everything else you've said about breeding so I'm quite interested [/QUOTE]

I would also like to find this out too! And you boy clearly has some jaw problem or very visible under bite witch is a sever fault to be breeding and will definitely not improve the breed.
I don't see how you can criticise mine and chloes dogs when they are winning in classes of 15 to 20 dogs.I didn't ask you opinion on them at all because to be quite frank its not valid, your smooth coat gets 1st out of 1. I have also just been informed that she doesn't have a point. Some one has checked!


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## Chiva (May 2, 2010)

LovesMyPups said:


> Very interesting!
> In light of this fact, I would be VERY curious to see if anyone tells us if there has been an "American" champion chihuahua who has obtained the title in UK later?
> 
> Also, I think it's silly to say "American" chihuahuas and "UK" chihuahuas aren't the same breed...? Peoples' preferences vary and the judges judging them are just people.


As far as im aware there has only been one American Champion who came over and gained his UK title, but do bear in mind that very, very few American dogs have been imported to the UK and shown. I believe my boy is only the third American Champion in about 10-15 years to have been brought into the UK, at least if im to believe what im told. We have very strict quarentine laws in the UK, it takes about 8 months before a dog can enter the UK and that is not only a long time, but it is very costly so not something that you can undertake on a yearly basis, as lovely as it would be to be able to!

Logan has only been here since October. In that time he has won two CCs and one Reserve CC, as well as a Best in Show and a Reserve Best in Show. This is not bad going considering that right now is not the "showing season" over here and shows with CCs are few and far between at this time of year  Im certainly very happy with my little American Champion. We imported him because he is what WE liked, he is correct, healthy and has lovely breeding. Louise mentioned earlier about people being "tight" with their imported dogs in reference to using them at stud. At the moment we have not offered Logan at stud as we are concentrating on showing him, but we're also very conscious of not wanting to do the breed a disservice by flooding the genepool with his breeding. We have had 50+ enquiries to use Logan, from top show breeders to local pet breeders. If we had allowed even half of those to use him the breed would be in a very poor state in a years time as he would have been far too overused. So, if we do allow him to be used at stud, we will be limiting him to maybe 3-4 quality bitches per year who we believe he will complement. I know a few people think we are being unreasonable by not letting him be used (the rumours get back quickly about who's unhappy  ) but I have seen in my other breeds where a new import is just used by everyone in the first year, then a year or down down the line everything is related and the genepool is smaller than ever!


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Chiva said:


> As far as im aware there has only been one American Champion who came over and gained his UK title, but do bear in mind that very, very few American dogs have been imported to the UK and shown. I believe my boy is only the third American Champion in about 10-15 years to have been brought into the UK, at least if im to believe what im told. We have very strict quarentine laws in the UK, it takes about 8 months before a dog can enter the UK and that is not only a long time, but it is very costly so not something that you can undertake on a yearly basis, as lovely as it would be to be able to!
> 
> Logan has only been here since October. In that time he has won two CCs and one Reserve CC, as well as a Best in Show and a Reserve Best in Show. This is not bad going considering that right now is not the "showing season" over here and shows with CCs are few and far between at this time of year  Im certainly very happy with my little American Champion. We imported him because he is what WE liked, he is correct, healthy and has lovely breeding. Louise mentioned earlier about people being "tight" with their imported dogs in reference to using them at stud. At the moment we have not offered Logan at stud as we are concentrating on showing him, but we're also very conscious of not wanting to do the breed a disservice by flooding the genepool with his breeding. We have had 50+ enquiries to use Logan, from top show breeders to local pet breeders. If we had allowed even half of those to use him the breed would be in a very poor state in a years time as he would have been far too overused. So, if we do allow him to be used at stud, we will be limiting him to maybe 3-4 quality bitches per year who we believe he will complement. I know a few people think we are being unreasonable by not letting him be used (the rumours get back quickly about who's unhappy  ) but I have seen in my other breeds where a new import is just used by everyone in the first year, then a year or down down the line everything is related and the genepool is smaller than ever!


Hope you don't think I meant you being tight lol I didn't even think of Logie, I was thinking more the people with misty meadows lines. I didn't think of it that way, your totally right.


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## Chiva (May 2, 2010)

Lou_lou said:


> Hope you don't think I meant you being tight lol I didn't even think of Logie, I was thinking more the people with misty meadows lines. I didn't think of it that way, your totally right.


I think it is important to allow a new dog to be used at stud in a limited way, only to bitches that will complement him and hopefully improve the breed. Its not really sensible to import a dog and then never make use of his new bloodlines, that seems a bit silly  But we have had some rather rude responses when we have told people they cant use Logan (or, at least not right now!). We imported him for ourselves and no one at all has the "right" to use him, which they dont seem to understand  We're really trying to make sure we go about things the right way.

I can understand why some people might be reluctant to let their dogs be used, within a few days of Logan's first shows we were inundated with phone calls and emails, its really quite overwhelming!!


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

I totally agree last thing you want is a certain dog in every pedigree I think louises point is that there is a certain breeder over here that has beautiful dogs with very good strong lines and they will only sell their dogs to pet homes no papers etc.. So that genepool can't be used to improve other lines that could benefit with some of their genes. They work a lot with misty meadows and everyone loves a misty meadows dog (if not they must need to go to spec savers haha) ha not that I'm bias!!!


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## Chiva (May 2, 2010)

Daisydoo said:


> I totally agree last thing you want is a certain dog in every pedigree I think lotuses point is that there is a certain breeder over here that has beautiful dogs with very good strong lines and they will only sell their dogs to pet homes no papers etc.. So that genepool can't be used to improve other lines that could benefit with some of their genes. They work a lot with misty meadows and everyone loves a misty meadows dog (if not they must need to go to spec savers haha) ha not that I'm bias!!!


I have noticed that an awful lot of breeders sell the pups they dont retain without papers. I find that very unusual as its just not done in my other breeds.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Chiva said:


> I have noticed that an awful lot of breeders sell the pups they dont retain without papers. I find that very unusual as its just not done in my other breeds.


Me too especially when you can just put a restriction on their papers!! I think that's what Lou means by being tight chi breeders are tight over here


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

TripleAChihuahuas said:


> if some how I can line breed I will try for her grandfather I love him =)
> *distance is a problem sometimes*


I have to respond to this and say that distance should NOT hold anyone back from using the stud dog that best complements their bitch. There have been great strides made in reproductive medicine in dogs and collecting semen and then overnighting it to the bitch's vet is being done on a regular basis. Artificial insemination has a pretty high success rate when the factors are favorable and you can accurately pinpoint the optimum time for fertilization. Using a dog just because he is local is very ill advised and a dis-service to the breed. A breeder should always look at the dog's total package. If he's in another state - there are ways to get a breeding accomplished. Sure it may be expensive, but breeding dogs the right way is never cheap.


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## Tyson's Mum (Dec 26, 2010)

> They work a lot with misty meadows and everyone loves a misty meadows dog (if not they must need to go to spec savers haha) ha not that I'm bias!!!


Daisydoo, Tyson has misty meadows dogs on his mothers side does this mean we are related LOL


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Tyson's Mum said:


> Daisydoo, Tyson has misty meadows dogs on his mothers side does this mean we are related LOL


Depends on which dogs it is!! They have some stunning dogs and my favourite chihuahuas are bred by them


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Daisydoo said:


> I'm not sure of the akc rules on line breeding buy we aren't allowed to breed mother to son here or brother to sister we can do half brother to half sister though.


In the states we call that inbreeding not line breeding. Our reputable breeders here will not inbreed on purpose. If it does happen it would be an oops breeding or at least so they say.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Chiva said:


> As far as im aware there has only been one American Champion who came over and gained his UK title, but do bear in mind that very, very few American dogs have been imported to the UK and shown. I believe my boy is only the third American Champion in about 10-15 years to have been brought into the UK, at least if im to believe what im told. We have very strict quarentine laws in the UK, it takes about 8 months before a dog can enter the UK and that is not only a long time, but it is very costly so not something that you can undertake on a yearly basis, as lovely as it would be to be able to!
> 
> Logan has only been here since October. In that time he has won two CCs and one Reserve CC, as well as a Best in Show and a Reserve Best in Show. This is not bad going considering that right now is not the "showing season" over here and shows with CCs are few and far between at this time of year  Im certainly very happy with my little American Champion. We imported him because he is what WE liked, he is correct, healthy and has lovely breeding. Louise mentioned earlier about people being "tight" with their imported dogs in reference to using them at stud. At the moment we have not offered Logan at stud as we are concentrating on showing him, but we're also very conscious of not wanting to do the breed a disservice by flooding the genepool with his breeding. We have had 50+ enquiries to use Logan, from top show breeders to local pet breeders. If we had allowed even half of those to use him the breed would be in a very poor state in a years time as he would have been far too overused. So, if we do allow him to be used at stud, we will be limiting him to maybe 3-4 quality bitches per year who we believe he will complement. I know a few people think we are being unreasonable by not letting him be used (the rumours get back quickly about who's unhappy  ) but I have seen in my other breeds where a new import is just used by everyone in the first year, then a year or down down the line everything is related and the genepool is smaller than ever!


I couldnt agree more! My Dane breeder is so very funny about who she allows to breed to her dogs. In her contract she specifies that she has to approve the bitch that my boy would breed to. I know many very reputable breeders here with the same mind set. It takes such hard work to build your line but only a few bad choices to ruin it :-(


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Yoshismom said:


> In the states we call that inbreeding not line breeding. Our reputable breeders here will not inbreed on purpose. If it does happen it would be an oops breeding or at least so they say.


Lol skeptical haha

So would we I think but triple a was calling it line breeding so I didn't want to confuse things? 

Mother to son, father to daughter, brother to sister = in breeding

Cousins etc = line breeding


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> I have to respond to this and say that distance should NOT hold anyone back from using the stud dog that best complements their bitch. There have been great strides made in reproductive medicine in dogs and collecting semen and then overnighting it to the bitch's vet is being done on a regular basis. Artificial insemination has a pretty high success rate when the factors are favorable and you can accurately pinpoint the optimum time for fertilization. Using a dog just because he is local is very ill advised and a dis-service to the breed. A breeder should always look at the dog's total package. If he's in another state - there are ways to get a breeding accomplished. Sure it may be expensive, but breeding dogs the right way is never cheap.


you are right! I just never had to do that before and not sure if her breeder has ever done that either. she is two states away about 8 hrs one way. Cali's breeder isn't a show home though her dogs come from show breeders. It will be a while before I breed Cali even though I could I am changing for the better and want her to be a champion before I think about breeding her. She is my first show dog so I know we have a long road. If I wasn't to line breed I wasn't going to just put an ad out I do have a few show breeders I would go to and find a male that would improve and match well with her.


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## TripleAChihuahuas (Apr 8, 2010)

I sound like I'm picking I'm not but you've had very strong opinions in this thread and it's te only ones I can pick apart as I disagree with a lot you have said and you've said loads about breeding to improve the breed etc and that as breeders you try to fix faults so can I ask why you've bred your smooth coat to which earlier in this thread you said was not to standard? I don't mean to sound rude but it just goes against everything else you've said about breeding so I'm quite interested [/QUOTE]

I would also like to find this out too! And you boy clearly has some jaw problem or very visible under bite witch is a sever fault to be breeding and will definitely not improve the breed.
I don't see how you can criticise mine and chloes dogs when they are winning in classes of 15 to 20 dogs.I didn't ask you opinion on them at all because to be quite frank its not valid, your smooth coat gets 1st out of 1. I have also just been informed that she doesn't have a point. Some one has checked![/QUOTE]

Don't tell the handler with the girl named "gordy" he wasn't there LOL or the others on Sat. I didn't know a long coat could be a smooth over night either. and yes I admit I didn't know that she had a point til I checked 2 weeks ago b'c AKC is slow putting it online didn't think there was enough enteries to make a difference. This is our 2nd show. how many have you done and how far have you gotten? 
my boy had retained baby teeth on the bottom that wasn't taken out til last year not his fault and he isn't been shown.
Where did I say I think or thought either yours or chloe's dogs had faults or ugly? guess that's your opinion I was being honest about dogs in pictures I thought this was about learning??? didn't think this was a friend contest!!!


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Daisydoo said:


> Lol skeptical haha
> 
> So would we I think but triple a was calling it line breeding so I didn't want to confuse things?
> 
> ...


I know, this is the reason for the clarification. I thought maybe she had confused the definition of line breeding here?


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

Wow, this is a fasinating subject. I never realized just how much goes into breeding. I've been toying with the thought of getting a show dog somewhere down the line and showing it. I have a question, though, would I be able to handle it in a ring with my pronounced limp or would it be better to get a handler?


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

svdreamer said:


> Wow, this is a fasinating subject. I never realized just how much goes into breeding. I've been toying with the thought of getting a show dog somewhere down the line and showing it. I have a question, though, would I be able to handle it in a ring with my pronounced limp or would it be better to get a handler?


If your limp didn't impact your dog's gait, it would be fine. I've seen people showing dogs in motorized wheelchairs. NOT often! But there's no rules that says you can't. Many don't because they want to be fair and not spook the other dogs in the ring, but if they are proofed well at handling class - they should be fine. When I was teaching conformation classes for our kennel club we had people walk by stacked dogs with umbrellas, snapping loud crinkly shower curtains in the vicinity of the line up, etc. There's lots of outdoor shows and these types of things occur. If your dog is a shrinking violet everytime an umbrella opens, it's not going to show well. This is part of show training. There's more to it than just standing on a table and allowing the judge to go over it and then a simple down and back.


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## RosieC (Jul 6, 2010)

> If your dog is a shrinking violet everytime an umbrella opens, it's not going to show well.


Hahaha, this is why I could never show Alfie! He's a shrinking violet at just about everything outside of our home.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> If your limp didn't impact your dog's gait, it would be fine. I've seen people showing dogs in motorized wheelchairs. NOT often! But there's no rules that says you can't. Many don't because they want to be fair and not spook the other dogs in the ring, but if they are proofed well at handling class - they should be fine. When I was teaching conformation classes for our kennel club we had people walk by stacked dogs with umbrellas, snapping loud crinkly shower curtains in the vicinity of the line up, etc. There's lots of outdoor shows and these types of things occur. If your dog is a shrinking violet everytime an umbrella opens, it's not going to show well. This is part of show training. There's more to it than just standing on a table and allowing the judge to go over it and then a simple down and back.


So true. I am lucky enough to have the little dog that thinks any loud noise is something to be excited about and go play. Someone dropped some big metal thing at his last show and while the other chis all jumped and shrank he immediately went into a play bow and started wiggling around like crazy??? Odd behaviour but hey, I'll take it! The judge actually laughed at him but he still only took Reserve...booo 

Like Brodysmom said, as long as you can keep up w/ the dog and have the dog walk appropriately with a good gait despite your limp there is no reason why you shouldn't give it a try. I have seen all sorts of things in the few shows we've been at and I am sure I have a lot more to see LOL. No one can fault you personally for having a limp, but its just important that you can teach the dog to gait/stack in spite of it


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

svdreamer said:


> Wow, this is a fasinating subject. I never realized just how much goes into breeding. I've been toying with the thought of getting a show dog somewhere down the line and showing it. I have a question, though, would I be able to handle it in a ring with my pronounced limp or would it be better to get a handler?


I wanted to add, you already have lots of dogs and if you live in a populated area, you should find out if there are any companion shows there...it'd be a great opportunity to get your feet went and see how you do! Personally I think a lot of the fun is lost in a handler, but they definitely help out people who show and breed that have disabilities so its not a bad option either.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

TripleAChihuahuas said:


> Don't tell the handler with the girl named "gordy" he wasn't there LOL or the others on Sat. I didn't know a long coat could be a smooth over night either. and yes I admit I didn't know that she had a point til I checked 2 weeks ago b'c AKC is slow putting it online didn't think there was enough enteries to make a difference. This is our 2nd show.


Cynthia - anyone can pull up records on AKC. It's a matter of public record. AKC's website shows Cali has having ZERO points for shows up to and including Jan 5, 2011. Go check it out! If she's due a point, you need to contact the show superintendent and also AKC and get that corrected ASAP!

Also, are you saying she competed against a smooth to win her point? That may be where the mistake is coming from. In the US, the two compete separately.

But definitely check it out and follow up. AKC has her as non-pointed.


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Lol long coat? She's doesn't have much coat for a year old bitch! My mistake.
And as far as this point goes, I don't believe the AKC know about any such point, I have emailed them and registered on the site and can't find any thing??? 

I have been showing chihuahuas for 3 years and have been showing at championship level for just over a year now, I think I have done extremely well for some one so new to the chihuahua ring. Perry have won a placing at every show I have showin him at. Not a easy task as entries are sometimes as high as 15 dogs per class with well know breeders he has also won best puppy dog and best puppy in show! Him and lolly (who I lightly show) have both qualified for crufts 2011 and lolly qualified last year too. My championship and breed club results are on my website as is some of our critiques.
You said that the dogs in the pm I sent you were ok, nothing special then you went on and said ........ had a crap head, I didn't ask you opinion on the dogs I sent I was just showing you the type was consistent. The only persons opinion who's mattered about the quality of the dogs was the judge who placed them all 1st. When I get 5 or 6 pm's saying omg did you see what she has written about your dog I do get a little bit defensive seeing as I could easy sit her a pick apart your dogs for hours.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Cynthia I thought I'd repost as you must have missed my post as you respond to everyones but mine 



Daisydoo said:


> I wasn't going to respond but this totally contradicts your previous post about breeding and how it all comes from their ancestors etc etc! Bramerita naughty but nices litter mates have been bred so technically if what you're saying is true then the fact doughnut herself wasn't bred due to size wouldnt matter?
> 
> That boy has a fabulous head.. I hate his stop he looks like a pug where it's soo deep and the angle is less than 90 degrees
> 
> ...


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