# I got a telling off from the vet!



## Pixie Luna (Jan 11, 2011)

*I got a lecture off the Vet*

Luna went for her steroid check up last night, and I took Pixie along - well to my suprise Pixie did a toilet in the consultation room! 
And also a first, it was quite a sloppy one...well...the vet started examining it! 
He said 'Why's it like this'?
So I said 'Well we've 'just' changed her diet'.
He asked what to - when I said RAW, oh dear hit a nerve!

He started preaching at me 'I wouldnt recommend RAW if you paid me to, why have you decided to do that?'
So I said 'Everything ive researched leads to RAW being a more natural diet and kibble has more bad points.'
Then I get this sarcastic, know it all answer 'Well....IM a VET so id like to think I know more and know what im talking about and I feed my dogs kibble. I get nothing out of recommending diets?'

He went on to say 'The jelly in that poo shows that theres something wrong with her bowels and if it doesnt clear up soon Pixies going to need tablets to sort her tummy out' I said 'Shes only been on this diet a little over a week and I understand theres a transistion to any diet change?' 
He said 'Bones from chicken wings etc cannot be digested and end up clogging up in a dogs bowel like cement and then vets have to sort it out, Ive seen it numerous times with dogs on RAW'

'All the dogs Ive seen that are on RAW have dull coats and dont look healthy - Pixie looks tip top condition, why change something that isnt broken from kibble? You feed your dogs RAW, but you'll then be paying me £1,500 to remove the bones from them, esp in dogs like these'

I said 'I know a number of people with Chihuahuas who successfully feed RAW which is why I considered it' 
He said 'Well these people dont take into consideration the years of breeding since being wild dogs, do these 2 dogs look like they could survive in the wild to you? The people who choose such diets are the ones that get tenacious about it and end up writing more articles which is why your reading so much'

And it went on....I thought talk all you want, i'll just stand here in silence.

BUT My husband....he is _now_ set against RAW and immediately last night stopped me feeding Luna  (We say Pixie is more my pup and Luna is his) Ive tried debating with him - Do you want to feed your dogs the same meal for the rest of their lifes? Isnt it better to feed fresh? When I have a child ive said I want them to have a healthy fresh diet, not mass produced...so I want the same for my dogs? 

I just dont know why the vet would be SO against RAW, how can what he was saying be so opposite to what the research suggests (ie; dull coats, unhealthy weights etc) 
He made me feel like a bad/stupid owner and that IM damaging my dogs health, I thought Ive spent time researching diets for my dog's, I didnt just buy the first thing with a 'Dog Food' label on in the supermarket 

I think my husband would agree to 'cook' the meat for Luna but he's totally off the raw/bones idea now because of this vets rant...

Views?


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## sammyp (Jun 14, 2011)

At the end of the day it's your baby so you do what you want and if you have read up on it and your happy do it. I feed ninja dry food only for the fact that anything other then dry food makes her ill. I would carry on feeding her raw for a few weeks and if her belly still isn't settled I would go back to dry. Good luck x


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

Why would he be so against the raw diet? Because he'd be loosing money if your (and other dogs who were fed raw) were fed raw their entire life! :lol: You wouldn't be brining them in for allergies, heart disease, dentals, etc. Healthy dogs don't need as many vet visits. Simple as that.  I say it's time to find a new vet...and one that has done their own nutritional research & not just got their training from the pet food companies that give your vet a percentage of the $ they make selling their food. 

I'm sorry your hubby is on board with the vet...that really stinks! Could you get away with doing a premade since it's still technically "dog food"? I've fed raw for almost 2 years to all of my dogs & never had to bring them to the vet for anything not routine...and I have a lot of dogs! Not one has had a problem.... 

You obviously have to make a decision on what to feed that you & hubby are comfortable with. But DO NOT let the vet make you feel bad. I've learned in the past years that some vets you just have to let ramble their shpeel & either ignore...or find a new vet. Maybe find a holistic vet (which most are on board with the raw diet) & try to change your hubbys mind?


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## buzz and lola's mummy (Aug 14, 2011)

Hi I feed my chi's Royal Canin chihuahua nuggets, this is MY choice as I had a free sample of what the vet's were selling as it was like cardboard!! my vet's couldn't say a bad word against this food either even though they weren't selling it!! 
I asked my vet about the RAW diet and they too thought it was an extremely BAD idea feeding such a small domestic animal chicken bones etc............maybe the RAW diet just hasn't caught up with the UK yet? It appears to be the way forward in America on here, I'm sure the UK will just take a few years!!! xxx


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

I actually know quite a few raw feedings in the UK & they have this company as well that I've heard some UK people talking about. Home

I'm fortunate...the vet I went to (she left the practice but is working at our local specialty store as she just had a baby & is able to bring him there to work--so I still get her great expertise hehe). Anyway she was very open minded & does her own research so she knows the benefits of raw which eased my mind in the beginning...

I really urge those who are interested in the raw diet to find a vet who also takes it upon themselves to research different choices in diet. It really is worth it if you are truely interested but need that peace of mind as well...


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

Honestly, I am not even going to bother telling our vet we changed to raw when the dogs go in for a check up. I know I will get a lecture from them. I understand how your vet made you feel like a bad owner.. Mine did the same thing for not putting my dogs on regular flea meds. I was also looked down upon because I didn't want Penny to have her rabies vac during her spay. The vet tech said "Well I GUESS we can do it while she is awake, if you want her to be in pain!"
Dogs can digest bones just fine. My dogs eat a chicken bone piece 2-3 times a week. They have had NO problems. Cooked bones are dangerous, on the other hand. Maybe your vet is just misinformed... I got the same lecture from my father when he asked what I changed the dog's food to. After I explained to him that yes, dogs can digest bones and there isn't much salmonella risk, he agreed it was the best thing for them. It is a shame your vet isn't more open minded. Sorry you had to get a lecture, because you are doing the right thing for your dogs


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Oh brother!! Of course the vet didn't want you to feed raw! Then you wouldn't be using his services as much!! LOL. 

Vets get a couple hours of nutrition teaching in vet school. And guess who sponsors it? Yep, Science Diet. They have all kinds of incentives for vet students and later practitioners. Free food for them, kickbacks on selling of product, etc.

http://www.soggypaws.com/Documents/prescription_diet.pdf

I'd like to address his concerns.... intestines that plug with cement and surgeries being done for blockages? I'd be willing to bet those might be from COOKED bones from a dog that got in the trash and ate leftover cooked bones. But fresh raw bones? Nahhhhh.... I don't believe it for a second. If that were true, there would be NO wild canids. No wolves. No coyotes. No foxes. The digestive system of our domesticated dogs are the SAME as those of a grey wolf. If you had them dissected side by side, you couldn't tell which was the wolf and which was the chihuahuha. (Except for size of course). ha. 

Our pointy teethed dogs are created to eat fresh raw meats and bones. Organs provide most of the vitamins/minerals in the perfect balance. I have fed Brody raw for almost 3 years. He's never been healthier. Never needed a dental (and won't). Never had to deal with allergies. He is at the peak of his physical condition. I will never go back to cereal in a bag.  Millions of people have switched their dogs over to a more natural way of feeding them. It's not a fad. It's not new. And it certainly is NOT going to put money in the vets pocket. There is no profit to be made for vets.

But in the end, you have to do what is right for you. And what keeps harmony in your family with your husband. I would personally find a vet more in line with my own beliefs. But in the end, it is what gives you peace of mind that matters.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

I think something like Stella and Chewies (sp?) would be acceptable to your hubby, and it is still 'raw'. As far as bone goes, I give ours raw rib bones weekly for their teeth. Still need dentals though! Sue


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## tulula's mum (Jan 4, 2010)

Poor you, what a shame, I have fed mine raw and they still have raw chickens bones, never done them any harm. Mine stopped eating itwhich was a real shame, there coats were lovely and they looked really healthy. What right has the vet or anyone to tell you what you should feed your dogs


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## Pixie Luna (Jan 11, 2011)

What suprised me as well is this vet was quite young, Id have expected a lecture from an older vet whom is perhaps isnt as 'used' to varying diets.

He said he'd 'Been to the factory where they make Royal Canin etc and its all well made'...but I still think, the ingredients they're putting into such foods - all im doing is removing that process and choosing to feed it directly/ie fresh myself?
If its chicken flavour....all im doing is feeding the chicken!
You'd think if is the bones thats the problem, why not mention the alternative of cooking the meat etc, but he was just 100% set on kibble only.

Heather, Id love to find a holistic vet, not that id even know where to look! This is our 5th vets we've been to. 

Vets shouldnt shoot an owner down to such a degree, esp when I didnt ask him for diet advice.

Im sure I can manage to persuede my husband...im the one thats involved in researching the breeds, the diets, im the one that informs him!  I just need to show him the online info so he can read it for himself, and hopefully if Pixies upset tummy clears up it might 'prove' that it was just a transition? 
(Are loose stools normal? )
Certainly with Pixie, she LOVES this diet..before when I cooked the chicken and fed with kibble as a puppy she would sometimes leave it. (Our EBT has never eaten kibble.)

ALL this because Pixie couldnt hold her toilet lol!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Yes, her stools should firm right up. Make sure you are bone heavy right now. chicken wings, necks, backs then slowly start adding in more meat.

You know what gets me??? The commercials where they show a chef in the kitchen and he's got a big chunk of raw salmon, a whole chicken on the cutting board, a slice of raw beef, maybe some grains, and some veggies/fruits and he asks his dog if he is ready for dinner. Then he pours it a bowl of dry kibble. HA! I'm like "give the dog the GOOD stuff you just showed!" (Minus the grains, fruits and veggies).  

Ah well. We do the best we can with the info we have. If you can't convince your hubby to continue raw, then go for the next best thing.... pre-made raws or ZiwiPeak.


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

LOL...their stools will be "loose" until they are used to the food BUT if she's not getting enough bone they'll be loose as well. Adding more bone should solidify those poos. It does take a bit to figure out how much bone your dog requires as every dog can be different. I know Zoey's mom here (can't remember her screen name) only feeds Zoey bone once or twice a week because she on the other hand, gets constipated otherwise. I can feed mine more bone than 10% & it doesn't do them any harm (though I do try to keep it close to 10%). Right now we're doing mostly premades (mix up Stella & Chewy's, ZiwiPeak & Honest Kitchen) with boney chicken a couple times a week so I don't really worry about what they get for bone as long as it's enough to crunch on. 

When we switched to raw initially I fed mine nothing but chicken necks for 2 weeks straight & they're high in bone content (30% or more) and we didn't have one loose poo...and no constipation. May not work for everyone though. With Lulu I just threw her into the mix w/o adding anything in slowly & she has had a couple sloppy/jelly poos but nothing liquidy or anything to be overly concerned with & it didn't take her long as she has pretty much an iron tummy anyway. 

You & your hubby sound a lot like us. ;D Hubby just goes along for the ride & I make all the calls. He actually loves when my lot get actual raw meat & bones...gives him something to talk about when he talks to people (he actually brings it up at times haha). Oh & maybe search online or in your yellow pages for a holistic vet? Not sure what they would have there in the UK but surely there has to be something? Good luck at any rate.


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## Jack Jack's Mom (Nov 19, 2010)

I feel your pain. I work at a vet clinic where ALL the doctors are against feeding raw. So if/when I switch mine to raw I won't be mentioning it at work.


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## CarrieAndCalista (Jul 22, 2011)

I spent a long time talking to my extremely trusted vet about diets for Calista, keeping in mind her cleft palate issues etc.

As with all things, I think there is a middle ground.
I feed Calista Royal Canin Chihuahua kibble (half the recommended amount) and the rest of her diet is varied raw meat and raw white fish. She cannot have bones because of the deformity inside her mouth and the danger of more damage occurring to her top palate. 
His feeling is that feeding exclusively raw is not good, as with feeding exclusively kibble... Her diet now is varied, she is getting safe chewies to keep her teeth clean and the kibble ensures she gets everything she needs in terms of vitamins etc. 

He is a strong believer that there are many companies out there just waiting to make a killing from those of us who love our dogs very deeply and are willing to buy their 'special' foods... and that those companies often have very little peer reviewed scientific evidence and trials to prove that the food is good, or even in some cases safe...


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## seagl07 (Aug 3, 2011)

Well my opinion on the issue is that its up to the owner really. Like I am VERY VERY VERY adimate about the diets of my children my son thomas was breastfed untill he turned 1 and I am still going strong nursing my 8month old cole. Its healthier and fresh unlike nasty formula. Sooooo I was thinking about what I am feeding my puppies and felt like I wasn't feeding them the best. I am going to get the stella and cheweys and try that because I don't want raw meat lying around with my children running around. But as for the bones NEVER NEVER NEVER I would never give my dogs chicken bones because they do splinter and can choke and stab the dogs insides. It can be deadly weather the bone is raw or cooked its still dangerous but I know that beef bones are safe as they aren't brittle like chicken bones when I buy steaks I get the bones and give them to the dogs for a treat.


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

seagl07 said:


> Well my opinion on the issue is that its up to the owner really. Like I am VERY VERY VERY adimate about the diets of my children my son thomas was breastfed untill he turned 1 and I am still going strong nursing my 8month old cole. Its healthier and fresh unlike nasty formula. Sooooo I was thinking about what I am feeding my puppies and felt like I wasn't feeding them the best. I am going to get the stella and cheweys and try that because I don't want raw meat lying around with my children running around. But as for the bones NEVER NEVER NEVER I would never give my dogs chicken bones because they do splinter and can choke and stab the dogs insides. It can be deadly weather the bone is raw or cooked its still dangerous but I know that beef bones are safe as they aren't brittle like chicken bones when I buy steaks I get the bones and give them to the dogs for a treat.


Raw chicken bone are safe to feed. Cooked ones are very dangerous, like you said in your post


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

Yeah, raw chicken bones are OK. They can break into semi sharp pieces but trust me...dogs swallow them w/o issue. (been feeding my whole lot chicken bones regularly for 2.5yrs! They were designed to swallow pieces of bone like that.  Cooked bones do actually splinter & don't digest as raw bones do. 

I'd actually be more hesitant to give beef bones as they are HARD & could potentially crack or break teeth of a dog. I don't do beef bones any more because of this...my lots jaws are just too strong. Some Chi's are OK...but when they get enough jaw power...look out.  Chicken bones, cornish hen bones (and other poultry) & pork bones are all mine ever get.


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## seagl07 (Aug 3, 2011)

Sorry for my information being wrong it must be differen for large dogs then because my vet warned us that chicken bones could kill our husky because they splinter and my dogs don't eat the beef bones I give them lol they chew the leftover meat off them and lick the marrow out n leave the bone for me to clean up my dogs are not interested in chewing unless its a pacifier for my kid lmao n it has to b the ones that are almost 8 bucks a pack ugh....I even bought them a kong and got the stuffing for it n they flip their noses up at it guess my babies r strange but again I'm sorry about the false info just relaying what I was told for years from our vet.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Seagl07, that's why this forum is so great! You can learn so much! I learn something new all the time. 

Raw feeders DO use chicken (with bones) as a staple in the diet of their dogs. This goes for small dogs, big ones, and the giant dogs.  Chicken is great as it has soft bones and there's no problem with splintering or puncturing, etc. Your vet may be thinking of obstructions caused by COOKED bones, which do occur occasionally. (Although our old dachshund used to get in the trash all the time and eat leftover cooked bones and never once had a problem!) 

There's a TON of videos on youtube of huskies/malamutes and other nordic large breed dogs eating raw. Many performance oriented breeders/owners use and recommend raw for their working dogs.

Here's just one video, if you do a search for huskies eating raw chicken - you'll find a huge variety! It's fun to watch them eat once you get used to the crunching of the bones. :coolwink:






Brody has been raw fed for almost 3 years and he eats raw chicken with bones a couple times a week. I usually use cornish hens (rather than regular chickens) as they are the right size and easy to portion out. He also eats a variety of raw meats.... beef, pork, turkey, rabbit, bison, venison, etc. 

I saw where you said your dogs like the expensive chews. Do your dogs like bully sticks? I know those can add up and be expensive. You can get some awesome deals at bestbullysticks.com if you haven't already been there. The bully sticks in the pet store are outrageously priced. You could check them out if you haven't already!


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## seagl07 (Aug 3, 2011)

Thank u so much fo the info I really hate thinking I'm feeding my dogs basiclly garbage I thought that dog food was best for dogs untill I joined and I almost died when I found out how bad it was so I am slowly going to raw I'm giving them pieces in their regular food to get them used to it and so I can make sure it doesn't sit around n the kis get ahold of the raw food and when I see them eating all of it I'm gunna try either stella and cheweys or ziwipeak and now that I kno they can eat the bones I won't have to spend 45 min disecting them out lol and they don't like any chew toys just my sons mam brand pacifiers that are very expensive n happen to be the only ones my 8month old likes so I tried an experiment I bought similar ones from the dollar store that looked exactly the same but neither my son or the dogs would use them WUT THE HELL lmao I think they are in kahootz wogter to drive me crazy


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## Pixie Luna (Jan 11, 2011)

Well...it didnt take much to convince the hubby at all! 
He says it was the vets 'bone' comment/threat that put him off RAW, the fact he said it builds up like cement. 
I explained that they need the bone for calcium...he's wondering if theres any alternative to the feeding actual bone? But it got Luna back onto meat at least 

As for the poops! _(how many poop posts now lol) _
Pixies at weekend was quite white; ie too much bone? 
The next day she had a runny one again (not liquid, just not 'firm')
And Luna dark, thin and runny.
Both at 'first' seemed to hardly do any as thought they were constipated, which probably triggered the hubby into thinking the bone was 'building up like cement'!
ie; they're not consistent sometimes runny sometimes ok sometimes too brittle.

Ive been feeding just Chicken neck,wing,leg,thights, think its been 2 weeks now.
So a little worried whats going on with their tummys if im not getting something right?


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## Lisajazzi (Oct 27, 2010)

Pixie Luna said:


> Well...it didnt take much to convince the hubby at all!
> He says it was the vets 'bone' comment/threat that put him off RAW, the fact he said it builds up like cement.
> I explained that they need the bone for calcium...he's wondering if theres any alternative to the feeding actual bone? But it got Luna back onto meat at least
> 
> ...


I would think about ordering from a premade place like rawtogo. I was advised to use these and I am - it's all ground up including the bones. Aside from adding in some organs it's done.


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