# Trying to decide...HELP!!



## BSeitz04 (Dec 15, 2009)

Ok...so I need some help deciding which chi puppy to get. Both are absolutely adorable and if I could get both girls I would in a second. We already have one male chi who isn't going to be happy about another dog invading "his" space. 

The first puppy is the one I posted pictures of before. She comes from champion bloodlines and her mother is an emotional support therapy dog. This breeder gives a written lifetime health guarantee and will fly the puppy to me herself at 10 weeks. She said this little girl is just like her mom and is one in a million. I had my heart set on her, but she will be DH's Christmas present and he didn't seem to be as head over heels for her as I was so I kept looking.

The second puppy I found is almost identical to our sweet Angelina that we lost in April. She has the bright innocent look in her eyes and a precious little face. The other puppy definitely looks like she knows she's special, whereas this little chi looks like she wants you to think she's special. I'm torn. This puppy doesn't have the lifetime health guarantee and she also doesn't have champion lineage. The breeder says she gets a lot of attention and socialization and sounded very nice on the phone. 

When I talked to her breeding partner is when I started to get concerned. That woman sounded crazy and told me how one of the puppies her breeding partner has (she's the one who also has the puppy I'm looking at) hydrocephalus. That's what Angelina died from so I immediately got concerned. It's not the puppy I would get and its not a direct sibling of that puppy either. However, this woman went on to tell me how she lost a perfectly healthy chi at 6 years old and when I asked what happened she said that the dog had just died. She also told me she has a male chi right now who has some mental retardation or something but she doesn't really know. Again, this is the breeding partner of the woman I would be buying from but it still raises some concern.

If it were you which one would you choose? Both breeders sound very caring and loving towards their animals but it's hard to tell. Also, the white puppy is already 14 weeks and the breeder wants to fly the puppy to me which is fine but she doesn't want to have anyone fly with her except the stewardess. That doesn't make me feel overly happy. The difference in price is also substantial. The first puppy is $2,500 and the second is $700 + $400 shipping. Sigh... I just don't know what to do ?.


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## BSeitz04 (Dec 15, 2009)




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## Jessicashield (Feb 13, 2015)

If it was me I would get the first pup, she sounds great and is gorgeous. It's a bonus she comes from champion bloodlines. Your hubby will fall in love with her when she arrives, it's hard to pick a pup when you can't visit the litter but from what I can see I think she's your best option. This breeder sounds great since she's offering you written lifetime health guarantee and will fly the puppy to you herself.
Just with the health issues arising with the other pup seems concerning to me and that would worry me and this breeder isn't offering you a health guarantee like the first breeder.
You also sound dissapointed with her about the flying situation and if you are uncomfortable your going to be so nervous about it.
Even though there is a considerable price difference, your paying for piece of mind with her health and for the pup to be brought to you with the breeder. It will be worth paying for


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## manydogz (Oct 10, 2015)

For the most part I agree with Jessicashield. That is an extremely high price to pay for a pup you are not planning on either showing or breeding. No price is a guarantee of good health, size or temperament. It is a big plus in the breeder's favor that she guarantee's health for life, but it makes me wonder why. I bred dogs for over 30 yrs. My pups were very much in demand and I almost always had a waiting list. A health guarantee for life is a foolish move on her part. What if a pup gets pneumonia(God forbid!)and dies. How is that the breeder's responsibility? All a good breeder can really assure you of is that certain hereditary things are not in her line to her knowledge. No hip dysplasia, no patella problems, etc. And even then something undesirable can show up for no apparent reason. Beware of those who promise too much. When they're anxious to sell there is no doubt a reason why. I would keep looking and look as local as possible. At 2500.00 I don't think the pup will sell fast. Bloodlines should only be an issue when you are buying to breed or to show. Why pay extra for those championship lines if you don't need them? And championship lines are absolutely no guarantee of good health. Most serious health issues are hereditary and/or hidden. There are countless people out there breeding and showing dogs with hidden health problems. Often the breeder doesn't even know yet.


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## Jessicashield (Feb 13, 2015)

manydogz said:


> For the most part I agree with Jessicashield. That is an extremely high price to pay for a pup you are not planning on either showing or breeding. No price is a guarantee of good health, size or temperament. It is a big plus in the breeder's favor that she guarantee's health for life, but it makes me wonder why. I bred dogs for over 30 yrs. My pups were very much in demand and I almost always had a waiting list. A health guarantee for life is a foolish move on her part. What if a pup gets pneumonia(God forbid!)and dies. How is that the breeder's responsibility? All a good breeder can really assure you of is that certain hereditary things are not in her line to her knowledge. No hip dysplasia, no patella problems, etc. And even then something undesirable can show up for no apparent reason. Beware of those who promise too much. When they're anxious to sell there is no doubt a reason why. I would keep looking and look as local as possible. At 2500.00 I don't think the pup will sell fast. Bloodlines should only be an issue when you are buying to breed or to show. Why pay extra for those championship lines if you don't need them? And championship lines are absolutely no guarantee of good health. Most serious health issues are hereditary and/or hidden. There are countless people out there breeding and showing dogs with hidden health problems. Often the breeder doesn't even know yet.


You definitely share a great point. Also with your experience of breeding this is great advice. 
Maybe it is best for Bseitz04 to reconsider and keep looking locally


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## BSeitz04 (Dec 15, 2009)

The $2,500 seems to be the going rate for this specific breeders puppies. She provides vet references and previous customer references but I also know those could be friends of the breeder. I would hope a vet wouldn't be unethical and lie. 

I contacted my vet at home today and she said if it were her that she would purchase the higher priced puppy because of the temperament of the parents being so good and also the fact the breeder offered to fly the puppy herself. She also said you often times get what you pay for which I realize is very true in many cases.

Prices for puppies seem to be all over the place but standard appears to be at least $1,200. My sister is finding the same thing in her dog search. She's looking for a mini golden doodle for her boys and they're averaging $1,500-$3,000. Anyway, just want to make sure I make the best decision I can.


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## BSeitz04 (Dec 15, 2009)

Jessicashield said:


> manydogz said:
> 
> 
> > For the most part I agree with Jessicashield. That is an extremely high price to pay for a pup you are not planning on either showing or breeding. No price is a guarantee of good health, size or temperament. It is a big plus in the breeder's favor that she guarantee's health for life, but it makes me wonder why. I bred dogs for over 30 yrs. My pups were very much in demand and I almost always had a waiting list. A health guarantee for life is a foolish move on her part. What if a pup gets pneumonia(God forbid!)and dies. How is that the breeder's responsibility? All a good breeder can really assure you of is that certain hereditary things are not in her line to her knowledge. No hip dysplasia, no patella problems, etc. And even then something undesirable can show up for no apparent reason. Beware of those who promise too much. When they're anxious to sell there is no doubt a reason why. I would keep looking and look as local as possible. At 2500.00 I don't think the pup will sell fast. Bloodlines should only be an issue when you are buying to breed or to show. Why pay extra for those championship lines if you don't need them? And championship lines are absolutely no guarantee of good health. Most serious health issues are hereditary and/or hidden. There are countless people out there breeding and showing dogs with hidden health problems. Often the breeder doesn't even know yet.
> ...


I have never purchased a chi locally. There really aren't many quality breeders in my area and if there are they primarily breed long coats. (I didn't realize how many long coat breeders there are out there till I started looking for a short coat.) That doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means they're very hidden. I don't want to over pay for a puppy and be taken advantage of by the breeder but I don't want to get a puppy who might not have the health guarantee and good temperament since we take our dogs with us all over the place. Our male chi was $900 and our female we lost was $1,300.


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## Jessicashield (Feb 13, 2015)

BSeitz04 said:


> I have never purchased a chi locally. There really aren't many quality breeders in my area and if there are they primarily breed long coats. (I didn't realize how many long coat breeders there are out there till I started looking for a short coat.) That doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means they're very hidden. I don't want to over pay for a puppy and be taken advantage of by the breeder but I don't want to get a puppy who might not have the health guarantee and good temperament since we take our dogs with us all over the place. Our male chi was $900 and our female we lost was $1,300.


I've paid between $2100 (Millie) and $2600(pixie)
Gucci, Darcy and duchess were all between those prices.
Where are you located? I could try and help you out and do a internet search and see if I could find one if you like? I love puppy hunting.
When I found my pups I just looked for a kennel club assured breeder, did my research into whether the breeder was experienced and if he/she showed her dogs and then viewed the litter. It's so exciting trying to find a new puppy but hard at the same time because you want to find a specific one.


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## SinisterKisses (Sep 20, 2015)

Holy crow...lol just looking over these prices makes my head spin! I feel like I underpaid for mine now lol.

Personally, I prefer the look of the first pup. A lifetime health guarantee does seem a bit..odd, I agree. Maybe meant to justify the price of her pups to buyers? And the championship bloodlines, as mentioned, aren't important if you're purchasing a pet not a show dog expected to BE a champion - unless, of course, championship bloodlines are important to you. But she sounds she comes from a good background and a breeder who knows what she's doing.

The second pup...she's a little cutie, but what you've said about the breeder and the conversations you've had with her, makes me nervous about her. I'd be inclined to stay away from that pup simply because the breeder seems sketchy. She may be a perfectly happy and healthy pup with a great temperament, but you're right - the breeder seems NUTS and it's less than confidence-inspiring.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

A high price isn't a guarantee of quality or good health.
Some of the worst chi breeders (often the ones that breed for colour) tend to charge the most. So the price is irrelevant, it says nothing about the dog (but quite a lot about the breeder IMO)
If i were buying a top quality puppy for breeding/showing in the Uk i would expect to pay £800-£1200 which is around $1200-1800. A pet quality puppy would be considerably less.
If you are looking for a healthy pet with a great temperament, it doesn't matter if there are champions in the background. A good breeder will know what health issues are in their line (if any) and will be able to assess the pups temperament. 
How the pup was raised is a huge factor in how it will be as an adult, so it is crucial you find a breeder you click with and trust, and who shares your own ethos for raising puppies.


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## zellko (Jul 3, 2013)

Reading your post it sounds like you already prefer the first. And you have much more confidence in that breeder. I always say, when in doubt go with your gut feeling.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Wow!! That's a lot of money!! I paid $750.00 for 2 of my chi's, and $500 for my last, which the 'breeder' did not register the litter, nor give me the birth date??? This last one is an emotional mess; so shy she rarely comes out of her pen to socialize. I did take her to 'puppy school' where she hid under my chair, and to a dog camp in Vermont with many people and dogs. Did the same thing. She is heavily pedigreed, so don't think that that has much to do with temperment. This dog is so shy/scared it was impossible to train her, because she'd just melt when you came near. I now let her be a dog, and she does fine. Housetrained herself. Knows 'shake' which she taught herself.


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## SkyAtBlue (Jul 25, 2010)

susan davis said:


> Wow!! That's a lot of money!! I paid $750.00 for 2 of my chi's, and $500 for my last, which the 'breeder' did not register the litter, nor give me the birth date??? This last one is an emotional mess; so shy she rarely comes out of her pen to socialize. I did take her to 'puppy school' where she hid under my chair, and to a dog camp in Vermont with many people and dogs. Did the same thing. She is heavily pedigreed, so don't think that that has much to do with temperment. This dog is so shy/scared it was impossible to train her, because she'd just melt when you came near. I now let her be a dog, and she does fine. Housetrained herself. Knows 'shake' which she taught herself.


How is Bonnie doing with her socializing? Does she still shy away from you?


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Dominique, Bonnie IS the dog I was describing above! She is just asocial! She does get upset when either my roommate or I are out of the house. If she is hurt, or sick, she will sometimes come and get me. But other than that, she has not changed. I wish her breeder had an email, that I could let her know what kind of pup she produced.! I think she does know, 'cause being a 'show' person, she never registered the litter, nor gave me the birth date. Bonnie also has such a short pushed in nose, she has breathing problems. I have rushed her to the vet several times with a 'panic' reaction due to trying to breathe, and creating a vicious cycle--the more she tried, the worse it was. Fortunately, she now curls up in her pen and shakes, and I know to pick her up and soothe her. Mostly after/during eating.


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## BSeitz04 (Dec 15, 2009)

Our son is a little upset that the little white puppy looks so much like the chi we lost. That's kind of my concern also. She is a super sweet looking puppy but will it be weird to have one that is so similar to Angelina? I just don't know.

The fact that the white puppy's breeder is ok with shipping her alone to me kind of makes me uncomfortable only because I know how scary that can be for an animal. The woman sounded very nice but her breeding partner sounded like a total twit on the phone. I'm not sure what to make of that lady.

The other breeder seems a bit scattered as well and doesn't reply to me all that quickly but she appears to put a lot of time into the training and temperament of her dogs and I like that. Even her saying she would fly the puppy to me herself instead of even using the puppy nanny they sometimes use made me feel more comfortable. 

Honestly, I'm about thisclose to telling my husband and blowing the surprise simply because I can't decide. The price difference is pretty dramatic and I'm not sure what to make of that either... One other breeder I talked to who actually does show her dogs and has very high quality puppies is selling hers for $900 right now and when I asked her why her prices were so much lower, she told me it was because she has 4 litters at this time and can afford to discount the puppies a bit. The breeder of the brown puppy only had this girl and one other girl in the litter and then she has two yorkie puppies for sale from a yorkie litter. The breeder with the white puppy has several puppies for sale and then the little one they aren't selling because she's hydro. 

Decisions decisions...


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

if it were me, i wouldn't get either. The fact that you are hesitating makes me think neither is the right puppy for you. When you see 'your' puppy, you will know. You will hopefully have this dog for the next 15-20 years, so don't rush the buying process. Keep looking until you find your perfect pup.


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## Jessicashield (Feb 13, 2015)

Wicked Pixie said:


> if it were me, i wouldn't get either. The fact that you are hesitating makes me think neither is the right puppy for you. When you see 'your' puppy, you will know. You will hopefully have this dog for the next 15-20 years, so don't rush the buying process. Keep looking until you find your perfect pup.



I totally agree with this  when you find the one you will know.


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## BSeitz04 (Dec 15, 2009)

This is me with everything though. I go back and forth and can't ever make a decision. The little brown one is the one I had my mind set on as soon as I saw her. Then I kept looking because I thought maybe I wanted a white one again. Now I saw this puppy and think she's sweet, too. It's more about personality, temperament and health for me. I would hope the white one is great in all those areas! She looks healthy but her breeders just sounded a little goofy. They're two completely different looking dogs and if the white girl didn't look so so much like our Angelina I think I would go with the brown girl in a heartbeat.


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## Jessicashield (Feb 13, 2015)

BSeitz04 said:


> This is me with everything though. I go back and forth and can't ever make a decision. The little brown one is the one I had my mind set on as soon as I saw her. Then I kept looking because I thought maybe I wanted a white one again. Now I saw this puppy and think she's sweet, too. It's more about personality, temperament and health for me. I would hope the white one is great in all those areas! She looks healthy but her breeders just sounded a little goofy. They're two completely different looking dogs and if the white girl didn't look so so much like our Angelina I think I would go with the brown girl in a heartbeat.


check your private messages


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## BSeitz04 (Dec 15, 2009)

Actually I take that back. I haven't wanted a white one again. I've wanted a darker color because I don't want to compare to the chi we had. DH has been pushing for a lighter colored one but thinks they're both really nice looking and said he would take either. I showed him their pictures but said I was just looking and not planning to buy one right now.


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## BSeitz04 (Dec 15, 2009)

Jessicashield said:


> BSeitz04 said:
> 
> 
> > This is me with everything though. I go back and forth and can't ever make a decision. The little brown one is the one I had my mind set on as soon as I saw her. Then I kept looking because I thought maybe I wanted a white one again. Now I saw this puppy and think she's sweet, too. It's more about personality, temperament and health for me. I would hope the white one is great in all those areas! She looks healthy but her breeders just sounded a little goofy. They're two completely different looking dogs and if the white girl didn't look so so much like our Angelina I think I would go with the brown girl in a heartbeat.
> ...


Just did...thank you!! :smiley:


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

i thought you wanted a smooth? (OR have I got that part wrong?) the white/fawn puppy looks like she may be Long coated, she has ear tufts.
Is the brown puppy a completely different one, or do you mean the black and tan in the first pics?


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## BSeitz04 (Dec 15, 2009)

The white puppy is supposedly a double thick short coat. The breeder said she might get some fringe around her ears and neck but that would be it. Not much more than what she has now. Her mom is a smooth coat and her dad is long.

The little brown puppy is the black/tan. She looks darker in some pictures but her actual color is a chocolate brown w tan accents.


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## manydogz (Oct 10, 2015)

I'd have a closer look at the breeder with the 900.00 pups. Discounting pups when you can afford to shows me that she's not a greedy person. You'll probally find that she has lovely pups, Might be just what you're looking for.


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## elaina (Jul 1, 2008)

Whichever one you choose, i'm sure you will love very much. My favorite just by looks is the one you call the white one ( but, I think she has some white on her like on her face but she's more cream colored or very light fawn colored ). she kinda reminds me of my Ellie Mae... I guess that's whey she's my fave. cant wait to see which puppy you pick


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## SkyAtBlue (Jul 25, 2010)

BSeitz04 said:


> The white puppy is supposedly a double thick short coat. The breeder said she might get some fringe around her ears and neck but that would be it. Not much more than what she has now. Her mom is a smooth coat and her dad is long.
> 
> The little brown puppy is the black/tan. She looks darker in some pictures but her actual color is a chocolate brown w tan accents.


I think that even a double smooth coat pup doesn't even have ear fringe? The cream pup looks like she is going through the "puppy uglies" of a long coat chi pup. The phase looks like they are a smooth coat, but they still retain the ear fringe, because of the different coat type contrast on the body and head. The ears are like a long hair dogs which doesn't shed as much. While the bodies are fur like and blow out.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

That is exactly what i thought, Dominique.
The Choc/tan puppy looks more like a Smooth with a double coat, fluffy but no fringing anywhere.
I have two double coat Smooths, neither have any ear fringing. They both have quite fluffy tails and the dog has a neck ruff. but both have smooth ears.


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