# Update on Lulu...Liver issues. :(



## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

I'm sorry I'm just now posting this. We moved my 91 year old grandfather this weekend--very busy. My vet's assistant called me Friday afternoon and asked if I could come pick up some antibiotic for Lulu. I told him I could and asked if all the results were back from her bloodwork. They were. He gave me a copy of her blood work so that I would have it when the vet called me that evening to go over it and explain the antibiotics. I almost had a heart attack! Her AST (SGOT) should be between 15-66 was 368. ALT should be between 12-118 was 749. BUN/creatinine ratio (uric acid in urine) should be between 4-27 was 32. Cholesterol should be 92-324 was 360. Platelet count should be 170-400 was 427. The vet said she had hepatitis which in dogs can merely be an "inflammation of the liver." He also calmed me concerning her AST/ALT #s. He said that those numbers are actually considered mild to moderate. For example, had she eaten bad mushrooms those numbers could be 2000-3000s. He said the BUN/creatinine and cholesterol is tied to the AST/ALT. He can not tell me what has caused this, and he doesn't really even know if this is the cause of her weight loss as problems with the liver usually don't show up until there is already massive damage. We can only treat the symptoms. My personal belief is that her weight loss may not have been as fast as I originally thought; instead, I have not had her on as big a portion of food as she needed to maintain her weight I just noticed the weight loss when it reached a certain amount. The vet is a huge fan of ZP, but I personally believe it is too high a protein for Lulu and that is the cause of this. He did not agree with me, but he did say that she may be that rare dog that high amounts of protein are not well received by their system. I think at Lulu's age and our lifestyle (I know I will take flak for this) she is not active enough for that much protein. I would greatly appreciate thoughts on this. Also, the vet asked if I could feed her a liver cleansing diet for the next 2 weeks which, of course, I could. It is a diet prescribed by veterinarian Jean Dodd, who I really think highly of, then we will recheck her liver enzymes in 2 weeks after the diet and antibiotics.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Wow. So sorry to hear all this! Thank goodness you have a vet who investigates and gets to the bottom of things and doesn't just treat symptomatically. 

I will be anxious to see how Dr. Dodds liver diet does for her. You might also want to do a milk thistle supplement and/or denarmin. Both can help with liver issues. The proof will be in the recheck of the blood work. Keep us posted.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Toby's digestive system couldn't take the ZP. It was just to rich and high protein for him. Some dogs systems just can't take it. I would look into a less rich food. Sometimes the best foods just don't agree with our little ones. I put Toby on ZP and within a week his months of chronic diarrhea ended. Good luck with poor lulu. 


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Brodysmom said:


> Wow. So sorry to hear all this! Thank goodness you have a vet who investigates and gets to the bottom of things and doesn't just treat symptomatically.
> 
> I will be anxious to see how Dr. Dodds liver diet does for her. You might also want to do a milk thistle supplement and/or denarmin. Both can help with liver issues. The proof will be in the recheck of the blood work. Keep us posted.


Thank you, Tracy. One of the antibiotics (I thought I understood it was an antibiotic) is Sam-E-Adenosyl which has milk thistle in it, and after she finishes it I believe he wants her on just milk thistle after she finishes the antibiotic.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

pupluv168 said:


> Toby's digestive system couldn't take the ZP. It was just to rich and high protein for him. Some dogs systems just can't take it. I would look into a less rich food. Sometimes the best foods just don't agree with our little ones. I put Toby on ZP and within a week his months of chronic diarrhea ended. Good luck with poor lulu.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


Thanks, Ashley. Yes, I LOVE ZP, but unfortunately I have to admit it may not be for all dogs. I tried Honest Kitchen, but she did not care for. Thankfully, she really liked Sojos which is also a dehydrated raw but much lower protein amount, so I think that is what I will go with when she gets off the liver cleansing diet. I can buy Sojos locally also at the holistic vet..


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

lulu'smom said:


> Thank you, Tracy. One of the antibiotics (I thought I understood it was an antibiotic) is Sam-E-Adenosyl which has milk thistle in it, and after she finishes it I believe he wants her on just milk thistle after she finishes the antibiotic.


It's a supplement.

From a quick google search ...

*S-Adenosyl (SAMe) for Dogs and Cats is used to improve liver metabolic activity and restore proper liver function. Unique, enteric-coated delivery system allows it to stand up formidably to stomach acid and effectively deliver the S-Adenosylmethionine 1,4 butanedisulfonate (SAMe) to the small intestine for proper absorption. Both strengths contain SAMe and other important ingredients for proper liver support such as milk thistle to help protect liver cells from toxins and reduce damage to those cells caused by some prescription drug use. Contains antioxidants to help neutralize oxygen free radicals, amino acids to stimulate glutathione synthesis and reduce oxidative damage, B-vitamins to provide nutritional support ensuring proper protein and energy metabolism, and vitamin B-6 for synthesis of cysteine in the liver detoxification pathway. Generic for Denosyl SD4.
*

I'm anxious to know how she does on it. Sounds like your vet is very thorough! Great. I think she's in great hands.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Brodysmom said:


> I'm anxious to know how she does on it. Sounds like your vet is very thorough! Great. I think she's in great hands.


Thank you! That means a lot coming from you!


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

lulu'smom said:


> Thanks, Ashley. Yes, I LOVE ZP, but unfortunately I have to admit it may not be for all dogs. I tried Honest Kitchen, but she did not care for. Thankfully, she really liked Sojos which is also a dehydrated raw but much lower protein amount, so I think that is what I will go with when she gets off the liver cleansing diet. I can buy Sojos locally also at the holistic vet..


I'm glad you found something that will (hopefully) work. Please keep us updated! Hugs from Toby and I. 


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## Angel1210 (Mar 14, 2011)

So sorry to hear about Lulu. It sounds like you have a good vet.

I'm always thinking about changing my dogs food, but then I think, if they are doing good and have no problems, leave it alone!

I hope everything will be okay!


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

Best of luck! Someone I know through a dog rescue feeds raw to all their dogs except one who gets Dr Dodds liver diet. It is a lot of potato and fish right? For her it has worked great for their dog so I hope it works out for you as well. She didn't want to use any processed kibble and got a lot of push back from her vet for not going onto the prescription diet but doing that instead- I am glad you have a supportive vet. Keep us updated! Is the cleanse diet different from the long term one? I know this woman had been feeding a Dodds liver diet for about 2 years now.


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## MiniGrace (Oct 31, 2011)

I am sorry to hear that Lulu is sick and I hope that she will get better soon with this treatment. ZP doesn't suit all dogs - Charlie doesn't do well on straight ZP. It is so low residue that he began to have terrible anal gland issues when I switched him to just ZP. Now he eats Half ZP and half kibble and no more anal gland issues.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

doginthedesert said:


> Best of luck! Someone I know through a dog rescue feeds raw to all their dogs except one who gets Dr Dodds liver diet. It is a lot of potato and fish right? For her it has worked great for their dog so I hope it works out for you as well. She didn't want to use any processed kibble and got a lot of push back from her vet for not going onto the prescription diet but doing that instead- I am glad you have a supportive vet. Keep us updated! Is the cleanse diet different from the long term one? I know this woman had been feeding a Dodds liver diet for about 2 years now.


Thanks, Annie! You're right it is 2 cups of a whitefish like pollack or cod, and it calls for 1 1/2 cup white potato and 1 1/2 cup sweet potato but my vet prefers all sweet potato for allergy purposes. It also includes 1 1/2 cups zucchini, 1 1/2 cups summer squash, 1 1/2 cups carrots or celery. You are also supposed to give infant vitamins. At the moment she's only to be on the diet for two weeks and then we recheck. If her numbers are good I'm not sure if the vet would want her to stay on that diet or not, but I am going to cut down on the amount of protein in her food if I change it.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

MiniGrace said:


> I am sorry to hear that Lulu is sick and I hope that she will get better soon with this treatment. ZP doesn't suit all dogs - Charlie doesn't do well on straight ZP. It is so low residue that he began to have terrible anal gland issues when I switched him to just ZP. Now he eats Half ZP and half kibble and no more anal gland issues.


That is very interesting Terri. You know, Lulu has had anal gland trouble two times since on ZP, but I didn't think anything about it being the food. I would like to know what kibble you feed.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

Hmm, interesting ... a friend of mine feeds 50/50 raw & ZP. Last week the dog had an infected/compacted anal gland that looked like a pimple to start with, but it burst. straight to the Vet, on 2 x anti-biotics and he's getting better. I wonder .....

Mine are on 50/50 raw & ZP but they get a lot of bone, which my friend's do not, and I've not had any a/gland issues with mine luckily. I can't tell how often my 4 poop, but I'd say at least twice, if not 3 times a day.


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## Moonfall (Nov 16, 2012)

Diet definitely has an impact on glands. I work in grooming and we can usually tell who eats better and who gets a lot of junk or people food.

Also, some dogs need them emptied more often and some can do it themselves. On a good diet my chi does it himself. I never get anything out. My lab can also, no matter what she eats, but my friend's pug needs it done every two weeks and he eats TOTW like Douglas does.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

So sorry to see what you are dealing with! I sure hope this diet helps and you see improvement at the next testing.

You are awesome for being so diligent to follow up, research and commit to trying so many things to help her.

My boy never once had glands expressed and I hope that the girls do not need to either. Our holistic Vet shook her head no after having checked all of the girls when I told her that I never even knew about it with Mick and wondered if it was something I should just plan/assume that the girls would need done. Hope not. Honestly, for all I have read it seems like something that once done almost consistently needs doing. 

Sure cannot wait to hear of Lulu's progress!


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

AussieLass said:


> Hmm, interesting ... a friend of mine feeds 50/50 raw & ZP. Last week the dog had an infected/compacted anal gland that looked like a pimple to start with, but it burst. straight to the Vet, on 2 x anti-biotics and he's getting better. I wonder .....
> 
> Mine are on 50/50 raw & ZP but they get a lot of bone, which my friend's do not, and I've not had any a/gland issues with mine luckily. I can't tell how often my 4 poop, but I'd say at least twice, if not 3 times a day.


The bone could absolutely play a part in helping with the anal gland issue. Lulu was on 100% ZP. I'm sure that was just too rich for her. 



Moonfall said:


> Diet definitely has an impact on glands. I work in grooming and we can usually tell who eats better and who gets a lot of junk or people food.
> 
> Also, some dogs need them emptied more often and some can do it themselves. On a good diet my chi does it himself. I never get anything out. My lab can also, no matter what she eats, but my friend's pug needs it done every two weeks and he eats TOTW like Douglas does.


I believe diet does effect glands, but I do believe ZP to be one of the best foods to feed a dog and Lulu was on that. I think like you said, some dogs need them emptied more than others and some can do it themselves better than others and diet effects some more than others. I think I happen to have a dog that has to have her gland carefully monitored, and I have to watch what she eats. Preferably what she eats has to have some substance maybe? 



jesuschick said:


> So sorry to see what you are dealing with! I sure hope this diet helps and you see improvement at the next testing.
> 
> You are awesome for being so diligent to follow up, research and commit to trying so many things to help her.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Karen. I will keep everyone posted. I can tell you now this diet does make her pee a lot!!!


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Sending our thoughts and prayers. xxx ZP didn't work for my crew either. Hopefully you'll find something that works well for your Angel.


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## nabi (Nov 25, 2004)

I have been thinking about Lulu..and keeping her in my prayers...hopefully the Sam-E and Dodds liver diet are effective...she is in good hands...gentle hugs to her:angel7:


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## Buildthemskywards (Jun 16, 2012)

Sorry to hear about her problems. Your vet does sound very good. I hope she's back to normal after treatment. Sounds like she's not as bad as you first feared though. Keep us updated. Hugs to you and Lulu.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

TLI said:


> Sending our thoughts and prayers. xxx ZP didn't work for my crew either. Hopefully you'll find something that works well for your Angel.


Thank you. The food search is not an easy one for sure, and it is made more difficult when you add allergies on top of health issues. uuugghh! 



nabi said:


> I have been thinking about Lulu..and keeping her in my prayers...hopefully the Sam-E and Dodds liver diet are effective...she is in good hands...gentle hugs to her:angel7:


Thanks Kathleen. I think that diet is doing something because it sure does make her have to pee a lot. There is a place on her puppy pad the size of a dinner plate, I kid you not! LOL



Buildthemskywards said:


> Sorry to hear about her problems. Your vet does sound very good. I hope she's back to normal after treatment. Sounds like she's not as bad as you first feared though. Keep us updated. Hugs to you and Lulu.


Thanks Melissa. I really like my vet. I happen to find him by accident when I was searching for a Maltese for my parents after Lacy, their first Maltese died suddenly. It's not that he's really far away from me, but I live in a small town north of the larger city that he is in. There are vets EVERYWHERE where I live--practically on every corner. I would have never sought him out simply by location. Thankfully I don't think it is anything serious or permanent or life threatening since it was caught--just a matter of treatment and correction. I really appreciate everyone's concern. You know we are all pretty close-knit on here, and it's nice to know people care about your pet that you love so much.


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