# Breeding 4 lb female



## JulieJ (Nov 9, 2010)

Greetings ! Okay, you all have been so extremely helpful to me before so I am going to ask all of you for "your" opinion. I have a beautiful tri smooth coat, apple head female that I know would throw some beautiful pups. She may not get bigger than four pounds and I have been told different opinions on whether a four pound Chi should be breed. I have a beautiful long coat male Chi I want to buy but he charts at four pounds as well. I do NOT want to breed my baby if she will be at risk. I have totally fallen in love with this breed but learning so many different opinions on them. I am aware that some times c sections are necessary. My concern is not that, but the health and well being of my baby. I guess I am asking if any of you have bred your small females and if so what was the outcome and size of stud ? The little boy I want to buy is beyond gorgeous with a good pedigree. Confused. Thank You so much. Blessings.


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

no i wouldnt , have seen to many on this forum go through so much heart ache , but even if my girl was 6lb i still wouldnt breed her , i would never forgive myself if anything happened to her .
my cousins chi which she got as an older dog from a breeder nearly died giving birth and she is around 8lb so no matter what size there is a risk but 4lb to me would just be to small and a high risk .


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## JulieJ (Nov 9, 2010)

I know, I am beginning to decide I won't risk it. I get so many differing opinions. I would most definitely get an ultra sound done. She is no where near ready to breed anyway. I would not do it until she was 18 months. She was 2.6 lbs at 4 months of age. I am not sure what her actual adult weight would be, but I have been told 4 lbs. I would never forgive myself either if something happened to her. She is my baby. The little fellow I am getting sure will throw some cute pups but I think I am going to let someone else enjoy that. I get so many differing opinions. Thank you so much for responding so quickly. I love this board for that. No one ever sits on pins and needles for a response.


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## Angalla (Jan 27, 2011)

Hi, I am new here, but have 50+ years experience with Chi's
I wouldn't breed from her at all if she is just a pet
Many people think it's easy, but it definitely isn't, neither would I let your dog be used at stud unless he is an excellent example of the breed & his pedigree is sought after.
Once a male has been used at stud, then that's all they have on their minds & can become a nuisance, urinating on furniture & trying to get out to find a mate.
Leave the breeding to the experts & just enjoy your Chi's as pets


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Is she registered? Is she is then have a look through her pedigree and do research. Phone the breeders of the first 3 generations to find out as much information as you can and about patella problems, if the dam's needed a c section and what the parent and pups weights were. Then do the same with the stud dog's.
A big bitch can throw tiny pups and a small bitch large pups you can never tell. same with the stud! 
If she's not registered then get her spayed! You never know what dodgy breeding is behind her.
I'm guessing your in america if your talking about breeding long to smooth?


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## JulieJ (Nov 9, 2010)

Thank You Lou Lou.. Yes, I am in America. My Tess is NOT registered but comes from a VERY reputable breeder who has bred for a long,long time. Her grand parents are on site as is her parents. Both being small. Mother is four pounds, dad 5. Mom has not had any c sections nor has grandma. I would test against the std I was told about with any female I stud my male to as well as my male. There doesn't appear to be any Patella problems and the Molera she had has closed. As mentioned I would not breed her until she was 18 months. I have a vet that does ultra sounds which I of course would do. I see your beautiful doggy has gotten some ribbons. Awesome ! Beautiful dog for sure ! Thanks so much for helping me. The Chi is new to me. I just love them.  It sure is a love at first sight relationship isn't it ?


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## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

JulieJ said:


> Thank You Lou Lou.. Yes, I am in America. My Tess is NOT registered but comes from a VERY reputable breeder who has bred for a long,long time. Her grand parents are on site as is her parents. Both being small. Mother is four pounds, dad 5. Mom has not had any c sections nor has grandma. I would test against the std I was told about with any female I stud my male to as well as my male. There doesn't appear to be any Patella problems and the Molera she had has closed. As mentioned I would not breed her until she was 18 months. I have a vet that does ultra sounds which I of course would do. I see your beautiful doggy has gotten some ribbons. Awesome ! Beautiful dog for sure ! Thanks so much for helping me. The Chi is new to me. I just love them.  It sure is a love at first sight relationship isn't it ?


I'm not really into telling people to not breed, to many people will say don't breed her with out giving advice when why should you listen to them and go off and do it anyway. Then problems happen and no one has given any knowledge. (I'm not a breeder so don't know much but will be starting my breeding program sometime not so soon lol) it sounds like your doing research maybe you could ask her breeder to be your mentor. 4lbs is still quite small but not too small. I would be to scared but that's because I'm a wimp lol I know a lot of people who have breed smaller bitches that just popped out the pups. 
How old is your girl? Maybe she will grow on a bit more than 4lbs u never know what could happen. 
Thank you very much by boy is very special to me  but I'm bias haha


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## JulieJ (Nov 9, 2010)

I never for a moment thought you were telling me whether to breed or not. I truly appreciate the advice I receive from here. I am a "whimp" too and that is why I am asking so many questions and researching  My doggies are my babies and they are TOTALLY spoiled rotten. Just like a kid  I am one who really wants to know the best for my babes. I am sooo excited about my new one. Haven't gotten him yet.


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

I personally believe a 4 lb dog is too small to breed. I wouldn't take the risk.


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## KayC (May 3, 2005)

Here is a very god posting on breeding

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/chihuahua-breeders-breeding/48665-you-thinking-about-breeding.html


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## chi's R me (Jun 30, 2009)

I am one of those who had a horrible experience last summer. My little girl weighted 4.2 lbs. and had a wide enought pelvis. She did deliver 3 own her own but still had to have a c-section and had 2 more pups. All but 1 died and then in the middle of losing the puppies Chloe started throwing up and diaherra and we almost lost her too. I will not ever breed another chihuahua. 
I am very lucky and blesses to still have Chloe and her 1 puppy that survived. Just know that when people say you are risking your female it's not just talk, it really is true.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Kay I was about to post that link. I am going to post this one as well as it gives good information ;-) http://www.chihuahua-people.com/chi-chat/42132-thinking-breeding.html

I personally would not breed a 4 lb bitch. I also wouldnt add to the over population of unwanted dogs out there, JMO  You said your girl was not KC registered? I am just curious if your breeder agrees with you breeding her? Usually when they do not register them it is saying she is not to be bred? 

It is ultimately up to you on whether you breed her or not. I commend you on doing your research and asking questions before jumping into it though. All in all it is about your precious girl in which she depends on you to keep her safe. I am sure you will continue your research and make decisions with that in mind


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I am confused,...she comes from a reputable breeder but is not registered??


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## Angalla (Jan 27, 2011)

I used to endorse my registrations " progeny not eligible for registration" to deter breeding.
Maybe the breeder has registered her but just witheld the papers?


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## JulieJ (Nov 9, 2010)

I just love you guys and your honest opinions. So few offer that anymore.  My breeder does not register any of her pups. I found many that breed pure breds do not. Seriously my breeder is extremely recommended in our area as a chi breeder. Her opinion is that most only want akc to get more money when they sell or for show. I found a fifty / fifty on the akc papered Chi's. I see a lot of the CKC which I know does not amount to much. My little guy does have an outstanding pedigree with a champion line behind him. All breeders start out as beginners and believe me...I WILL NOT ever put my baby's life at risk. I have found a top notch vet that does ultra sounds on female bitches. So many differing opinions. I respect all of them and will take all of them into consideration. Bless You all for your help.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

If the breeder wanted your pup to be considered a potential breeding or show prospect, though, it would need to be registered. Since she's not, she is a pet, and should be spayed.


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## Angalla (Jan 27, 2011)

I'm sorry but I have to play devil's advocate here.
If your bitch is not registered, then how do you know the pedigree you were shown was authentic, you have no way of checking without her papers.
Your breeder may be genuine, but unfortunately there are many that aren't
If I were you I would abandon any thoughts of breeding & just enjoy your little girl


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I am not sure where you get your statistics from but all reputable breeders register pups. Most will limit the registration to keep from them being bred. I am not sure what to think of this? Registering with AKC helps keep lines in order, to keep from having mixes, hereditary defects, etc... I have never ever heard of a reputable breeder not registering their pups. Not saying yours isnt reputable but I am saying your statistics on AKC is off. I am curious as to who your breeder is and if I recognize any names in her lines. Could you please pm me her site or information? Thanks


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## JulieJ (Nov 9, 2010)

Okay, the breeder I got my Tess from sells many unregistered Chi's. She does not register her dogs. Most people I know who own AKC dogs do not show them. It is about the love of the breed not anything else. In my opinion whether or not your pet is "registered" makes not difference on their quality. My toy poodle was definitely show and akc just didn't register her. My male toy I did register but did not breed. There are flaws in akc "pets" too. They can't keep track of all of them. An example, a male who has a testicle that does not descend should not be registered but I know of a case where this happened. Dog has papers. Not a good example of a breeder putting that into the akc line. Wish I could remember how to attach a pic. I would attach one of my Tess. Again, I thank you.


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

I don't know much about breeding chi's or any dog for that matter... But, I do know that the breeder I got my baby from wanted to keep Roxy for her breeding program, however, she realized she would be much to small to breed... which is how I got her!! She'll only be an estimated 4 - 5 pounds as well. So, from what I have heard and from what our breeder told us about Roxy, I would say definitely do not breed your baby.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

That dog can still be registered but would be registered under limited registration. They still need to keep track of those dogs with those defects. AKC registering has nothing to do with charging more for it if your puppy holds that registration. Some pups are registered and the pet owner decides to not even register their puppy and that is up to them. The breeder should be responsible in registering her lines so she will know what the lines carry for, this data base is very important. I agree that they are not 100% accurate but it is better than nothing and they need to be kept track of.

It is common knowledge that one of the Red Flags for selecting a breeder is them not registering with AKC or CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) here in the states.

does this mean you do not want to share your breeders information with my through pm? I am not commenting as to hurt you in any way.  I am just trying to understand ;-) As I have never heard this before ever?


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

We aren't trying to say there are no flaws with AKC registered dogs/the registry itself lol...but it is pretty much the only registry that you can "trust" with background information regarding a pup. Not any guarantee of quality, and many many dogs are pets, etc. What we ARE saying is that a dog that is not registered, with no way for you to guarantee or trace her lineage, health history of her ancestors, and no even real verification of who her parents are, shouldn't be bred. There are 2 types of registration with AKC, LIMITED and FULL. Many, many pet dogs with faults such as you mentioned (1 testicle), can be registered with LIMITED registration. Registration is often done when the pup is too young to know if the testicles will drop or not, by the way. Full registration is ONLY given by RESPONSIBLE breeders to people they trust with the dog to make the right decisions for it--showing, breeding, etc. The ONLY thing registration "proves" is that the dog is a purebred animal, with generations of purebred animals behind it. Simply nothing more. BUT, someone's word of mouth that a dog is purebred doesn't mean much at all. It is a reliable registry that has tracked breeds for over 100 years. It does not accept outside dogs into the registry, either (you cannot "apply" for registration unless your dog is registered in a foreign country's reputable registry). The AKC is not a registry of flawless dogs, but it is a history of ancestry, that helps individuals and breeders better understand and review bloodlines, faults, potential health problems, etc.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

flippedstars said:


> We aren't trying to say there are no flaws with AKC registered dogs/the registry itself lol...but it is pretty much the only registry that you can "trust" with background information regarding a pup. Not any guarantee of quality, and many many dogs are pets, etc. What we ARE saying is that a dog that is not registered, with no way for you to guarantee or trace her lineage, health history of her ancestors, and no even real verification of who her parents are, shouldn't be bred. There are 2 types of registration with AKC, LIMITED and FULL. Many, many pet dogs with faults such as you mentioned (1 testicle), can be registered with LIMITED registration. Registration is often done when the pup is too young to know if the testicles will drop or not, by the way. Full registration is ONLY given by RESPONSIBLE breeders to people they trust with the dog to make the right decisions for it--showing, breeding, etc. The ONLY thing registration "proves" is that the dog is a purebred animal, with generations of purebred animals behind it. Simply nothing more. BUT, someone's word of mouth that a dog is purebred doesn't mean much at all. It is a reliable registry that has tracked breeds for over 100 years. It does not accept outside dogs into the registry, either (you cannot "apply" for registration unless your dog is registered in a foreign country's reputable registry). The AKC is not a registry of flawless dogs, but it is a history of ancestry, that helps individuals and breeders better understand and review bloodlines, faults, potential health problems, etc.


I agree! Thanks, you worded this much better than I did. ;-)


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## Angalla (Jan 27, 2011)

Sorry Julie, but if she is selling a lot of unregistered dogs, then her argument that she doesn't register them so the AKC doesn't get the money doesn't hold water.
She isn't registering them because it's cutting into her profits, to my mind that isn't a reputable breeder.
It doesn't matter whether you want to show or not, they should be registered so there is some proof of bloodlines
Breeding should only be undertaken to improve the breed, the pet market is a by product of that, not the main product, your breeder just seems to be breeding for profit sadly


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

For example, if you breed an AKC dog with LIMITED registration, its offspring are NOT REGISTRABLE, because that dog was never intended to be added to the breeding/gene pool, so AKC won't recognize the pups. Lots of people with AKC dogs have LIMITED registration, so, they can't, couldn't...show the dog, and definitely shouldn't breed it.


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

I would never breed a dog who only weighed 4lbs. I was planning on showing Emma and eventually breeding her once she had her CH... but she ended up only weighing 3lbs so she's now a spayed pet. My Rylie weighs 4lbs and was sold to me because she was too small to be bred. Her breeder instead held back one of her brothers to be shown, and wanted a pet home only for Rylie. It was too risky to breed a dog who was charting to weigh under 5lbs.

Personally, the smallest female I would ever consider breeding would have to be close to the 5lb mark.

Why do you want to breed your dog?

Will your dog better the breed? Is there something special about her that will really help the breed as a whole?

I've never heard of a reputable American chihuahua breeder selling their dogs without AKC papers. Also, a reputable breeder will normally sell a puppy with AKC limited papers unless they know that the new owner is planning on showing/breeding. 

Registering a dog with the AKC isn't expensive for the breeder or the new owner, especially when you're already spending $500+ for a puppy. I just can't accept "it's too expensive" as an excuse. Plus, how are you going to research into your dog's lines if none of the dogs in their family are registered?


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## Ivy's mom (Feb 15, 2008)

Are you looking into making this a business or would this be a one time thing. Myself personally I would never think of breeding my girls. Now if I wanted to start a business of breeding that is a whole new ballpark. There is soo much to think of when breeding, not to mention worries. My girls are to small and not bred to what I would call standards, so I wouldn't put them through it for the so called "experience" of it. And unless a person is gauranteed to make back all of the time and money put into it for a one time thing I just don't think it would be worth it. All of my girls mommies were all around the 5-6 lb range, and the daddies were the tiny ones.


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## Ivy's mom (Feb 15, 2008)

I would love to see a pic of Tess though


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I have looked back at some of your earlier posts and you state constantly that you are new to the Chihuahua breed. I feel that it may be a better idea for you to get way more familiar with the breed, got to shows and talk to the experts, maybe find a mentor there and get a pup from them.


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## ExoticChis (Jun 20, 2010)

I got Honey as an adult, and she was bred from (NOT BY ME) she is 7pounds
she was pregnant with 3 puppies, one got stuck she had to have an emergency c-section
ALL THE PUPPIES DIED, Honey also died a few times and the brought her back. They de-sexed her when they did the c-section, and I then brought her (still with stitches in)
Breeding takes alot of knowledge and alot of money and you have to be willing for your bitch to die. I personally would not breed at all, only because I do not have the knowledge and resources to do it. And I would not breed from a 4 pound bitch.
But that is just my opinion.


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

I don't think that an un-registered bitch should be bred. there is no reason to, as it isn't really going to better the breed if her pups can't be registered and shown or bred. 

Your Tess sounds gorgeous, and I'd love to see a picture too !!

Four pounds seems too small for breeding, it would depend on more than just weight. Her whole anatomy would be considered--as well as her pedigree. AS Krist said communicating with the breeders in her pedigree to get some help about this.

As far as any US breeder not using the AKC for registration, indeed there is red tape, forms , fees, inspections and that sort of thing.BUT it is the only entity responsible for "keeping" the breeds pure and healthy. If everyone just bred according to whatever standards- the breed would be lost. The health of future generations of the breed would be vunerable. Non- registration leads to ill-bred animals. As much as it may seem unimportant it is the only responsible thing to do--that is breeding to the KC standards.

It took me ages to even commit to buying a dog. I met with loads of breeders, good and bad. I have looked at hundreds of chihuahuas. The KC registration is important for breeding


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