# Talking vaccines



## serina48723 (Jun 11, 2006)

Okay there is a common debate, especially with Chis that is gunna make you think twice before you let your vet poke your dog, and in doing my research online Dr. Scollon and I had a massive discussion on this, and Colorado is changing their vacination protocal because of this.

Okay we all take our chis for their puppy shots, as we know that that is what we do to keep them healthy, and free of diseases. In doing so, we are actually reducing their immune system, by putting the diseases within our Chis that we are trying to prevent. With that said most vets don't think twice, they take your dog in when vaccines are due, and just give them the shot, without a single thought about it.

However Scollon and I had an interesting conversation about this, that really he had no answer to other then 'that was what he was taught'. Not good enough for me, so I probed him with all my research.

So here is my question, and this will make you think, especially for those of you that take your Chis to the vet to get their animals their shots. How is it that the smallest breed in the world takes the same doseage of vaccine as a St. Bernard, Great Dane, or other larger breeds..Are we giving our Chis too much? That said there is a vet in Clio MI, both her and her husband practice. She deals with small animals, he deals with large. She gives small breeds a half dose, and gives the larger breeds the full 1 cc. 

Another thing I don't understand. Anyone ever paid attention to a bottle of RabieVac 3, commonly used rabie vaccine. You give a Chihuahua 1 cc, while a horse, that I am guessing weighs I am guessing here about 1,500 pounds a half of a cc more, or 1 1/2 cc. Catching my drift here.

Think of it this way. Chihuahuas are one of the longest lived breeds of dogs out there. But 100 years ago before vaccines dogs lived longer than they do today. We are seeing more aggression problems, neurological problems, skin problems, cancers, just to name a few.

There is actually a name for this very growing problem. It is referred to as vaccinosis. Look it up, and do your research. I am not telling you to not vaccinate your dogs, and to stop veterinary care, but this is a growing problem with our beloved Chi's that needs to be discussed with our vets, and an 'that was what I was taught is not a good enough answer to me'. 

Some vets are doing what is known as a blood test, known as a Titer test. They are finding that vaccines last longer in our dogs that what was originally thought. Yet most vets won't discuss this sensitive topic, because they know that by giving shots every year helps their pocket book.. 

We don't vaccinate out children every year. So what are we doing to our pets. (Please keep in mind this is in no way a reason to stop giving vaccines, just what I have research, and not to be used to diagnos or treat your pet, just as something to talk to your vet about). Please look this up, copy this issue from research done online and discuss it with your vet professional.

an other note::some vets give the lepto vaccine to chihuahua's. A good vet won't. Chihuahua;s are one breed that have ran into antiphalatic shock, and have had a severe allergic reaction to this vaccine. I have had this happen, and in my dogs, chose not to give it to them, as the disease itself does not kill your Chi, and a good vet knows of this reaction and will not administer this to your Chihuahua. Again not to be used without first talking to your vet, just my opinion as a breeder, and a legitament concern that needs to be addressed.


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## LadyBelle1 (Sep 10, 2005)

serina48723 said:


> We don't vaccinate out children every year.


I don't want to argue because since I have been here I have already been in a discussion about this. The only thing that bothers me is this quote. Actually while our kids are little they get there shots more than once a year.
First at 2 months, then 4 months, then 6 months, then 15 months, then 4-6 years, then 14-16 years, and after that a Tetanus/diptheria every 10 years. Plus even in humans the vaccines do not last forever. I had all my shots and then in 2000 I ended up getting Rubella(german Measles)

I have a question you say that it decreases the immune system but I was just in at the vets on Friday to get puppy shots and she told me that the puppies already have a pretty good immune system from the mothers milk but the puppy shots will actually boost the immune system. So why would she say this if in fact it decreases it? 

I am sorry to say this but most people who do not want to get annual vaccinations just want to save money, and being a breeder myself would you really want to risk it? Just think of how much money you are going to spend if a dog gets sick and then it spreads to all the other dogs. I have heard of whole kennels being wiped out by parvo so I don't want to go there.

Sorry but I just don't agree with you here. I do agree about the doses, but for me I would rather be safe than sorry. I would rather fill the vets pockets with money than watch my dog die of parvo or something that I could have prevented. This is just my opinion on the subject.


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## Sariss (Jan 22, 2006)

If you give the puppy shots too young, the first one may sometimes get cancelled out by the immunity the pup already has from the mother - that's why they get boosters.

I've seen too many unvaccinated puppies fall ill with parvo to want to risk not getting them done.
The whole "pets lived longer before this, and there was less cancer etc etc" has been used on food quite a bit, too.


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## serina48723 (Jun 11, 2006)

*I am not saying not to vaccinate.* I do myself, and give the boosters, I am just wondering if we are overvaccinating out pets. Sorry should have specified this. I am just questioning in my research if it is being done too much, which could lead to more problems. I vaccinate my animals to, but am wondering if a titer test might be the answer before we over poke our pets. *PLease all vaccinate your Chi's, this is just a discussion.*

To view research that I discovered look up vaccinosis on line, they have a name for this. but this does not mean DO NOT VACCINATE YOUR CHI, please bring and discuss this with your vet first. Discuss it with them. Any good vet will be willing to listen.


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## serina48723 (Jun 11, 2006)

NOt to get off another issue I stated. Why is it that the tiniest dog out there requires as much vaccine as the largest breed. That to me just doesn't make sense, which is why I brought this issue up for discussion.

Also I have 4 kids, went through all the shots, and the boosters, but once the initial shots are done, and we do the annual booster are we actally hurting our pets more. This was what I was trying to question here. Should have been more specific huh,, but it was late, Sorry.


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## T'Molly's Mom (Oct 3, 2005)

If the vet says "shots" then here comes the Herd for "shots" !!!! No questions asked about NEED.

However, I have to agree on the CC/pound question. I have always asked why my 1 pound baby Chi got the same AMOUNT as the 125 pound Rottie. It just doesn't make any sense to me. When your child gets sick, you don't give them an adult dose - - NO - - - they get a lesser amount that can be assimilated by their smaller systems. Why aren't dogs the same?


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## Sariss (Jan 22, 2006)

Titers are becoming more popular, but there is a lot of stuff around it - mainly around the fact that a high amount of antibodies in the titre does not neccisarily mean high immunity. That, along with cost, is why a lot of clinics don't do it - because it gives false positives.

One of the vets at the clinic I work with halves the doses with smaller dogs, but the other doesn't. The one who doesn't argues that it won't harm the dog, and you risk the dog not getting full immunity if you halve the dose, especially if the sample isn't mixed well enough. But I don't know a heck of a lot about that.


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## dolly'sgrandma (Nov 8, 2005)

I listened to a vet on the radio and he discussed titers and said that they are often not accurate and also can be very expensive.

That said, I DID ask about lepto. I was very concerned about that shot, but my vet said she weighs the risk of the shot with the risk of the disease and lepto is out and about in my neck of the woods...therefore, we did get the shot. I didn't ask about dosages but we did spread out the shots with Dolly, and I don't remember doing that with the big dogs.

I agree, it's always good to be informed and to discuss all of this with your vets. My sheltie died at age 7 of cancer and I was flabbergasted..I had picked a breed that was hardy, not prone to cancers, had her spayed at 5 mos, etc...and yes, I wondered about vaccines.


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## hestersu (Jun 18, 2006)

Generally, rabies shots are mandated by the state and is for the general welfare of the state. One thing nice about Texas - the law was changed from every year to every other year. 

My vet gives smaller doses for the smaller dog. I did watch him give the shot and the dosage. I will ask him again when I go in for Sadie's final shots on 7/1. I'm curious to know what he thinks about this issue. Thank you for at least causing me to think about the logic. 

As far as allergies, I think that any animal living in a human environment (i.e a house) runs the risk of developing allergies. A dog was really never meant to live as a human does. They were designed to forage for their own food and live on the land. For my own fur babies, I have taken to giving them fresh honey from a local beekeeper. Just like humans, this helps them develop resistance to many of the things that cause allergies. I have seen a tremendous improvement in Sadie since she is not a "native" to my county but is from 8 hours away where things are very different. She had all kinds of gunk in her eyes the first 2 weeks here. Now she is clear eyed and not sneezing all the time. Just a little dab of honey on my finger tip once a day or mix with her water. I use both spring honey (lighter color) and fall honey (darker color) so that both dogs will have a good sampling of the various pollens native to my area.


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## dolly'sgrandma (Nov 8, 2005)

Hi Susan,
Welcome to Chihuahua people! Don't you love this site?

I live in Texas too (Boerne). I actually thought we had gone to 3 year vaccines? Either way, we are going every other year with our dogs (by choice). I'm pretty sure I'm getting shots every three years for the cats now. I let my vet send the reminder card, and they are coming way less often!


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## Sariss (Jan 22, 2006)

I've heard bad things about both the lepto and lyme vaccines. Our practise chooses not to carry them.


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## hestersu (Jun 18, 2006)

dolly'sgrandma said:


> Hi Susan,
> Welcome to Chihuahua people! Don't you love this site?
> 
> I live in Texas too (Boerne). I actually thought we had gone to 3 year vaccines? Either way, we are going every other year with our dogs (by choice). I'm pretty sure I'm getting shots every three years for the cats now. I let my vet send the reminder card, and they are coming way less often!



Hi there! You know, I think you are correct - it is every 3 years. I know my blue heeler is up this year or at least I think she is. I live out in the country so I will probably do every 2 years. My heeler stays out doors in the summer and chases rabbits and such. We also have prairie dogs nearby. They carry all kinds of nasty diseases not to mention the ferral cats around. So for her, shots every 2 years or less if we have an outbreak like we did a few years ago. 

The Chi's are indoor dogs with supervised outdoor excursions. Right now, they have to stay on the concrete until Sadie finishes all of her shots and is a little more healthy. She is still delicate in some areas. I allowed Sadie onto the grass at a friend's house but they live in town. They don't have rabbits, coyotes or other wild critters in their yard. 

Sadie came from New Braunfels. We stopped in Boerne for a pitstop on the way there and the way back. Boerne has grown! 46 was clogged all the way to NB. 

And I do love this site. Good people!


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## dolly'sgrandma (Nov 8, 2005)

Boerne HAS grown! We live in the country too, so I won't go three years with my big dogs (or probably Dolly)...but Dolly is always on a leash outside. Not only coyotes, but what about predatory birds? We have owls for sure, and they are always after the rabbits!

Still, it is nice not to have to have the shots every year. I just wish we could give it in food (like they do with the wild animals around here) and do it ourselves. But too many people wouldn't. We have had a skunk rabies outbreak just recently.


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## serina48723 (Jun 11, 2006)

great discussion. Now we are getting our thinking caps on and I like this. Lets keep this thread a rollin. On that note, my dogs I only give half the dose, due to the difference in size, as I can't relate giving the same amount that you give a large breed as you would a small breed. Doesn't make sense to me. Lets keep talking. I love this.


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## Clek1430 (Mar 7, 2006)

I agree with you. I also think children are over vaccinated too IMO. I do rabies every 3 years cause its the law but I do titers instead of the shots. This does not save me any money or less trips to the vet. Titers are more expensive then giving the shots as I do shots myself and would only cost me $2.00. Dogs are over vaccinated IMO and that is why I think they are changing laws constantly about how long shots are good for.


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## dolly'sgrandma (Nov 8, 2005)

When my 11-year-old son was a baby, I read the paperwork on the polio (live) vaccine (the oral one) and decided that there was too much risk. I said, "No, I want the dead vaccine (shot)" and I had to practically write my congressman to get it. All that to say, two years later when I took my now-9-year-old to the pedi, all they offered was the shot! Often, when enough people read the risks, "funnily enough", laws are changed.

I always knew that the rabies shot was good for three years here in Texas, (even when we had to get it every year) and the support for that was...that way if people put it off, at least their dogs were protected. But it DID make me nervous and wonder if I was overdosing my dogs...and they didn't weigh 6 pounds. With Dolly, everything seems to "matter more". Size is definitely an issue.


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

Clek1430 said:


> I agree with you.
> 
> This does not save me any money or less trips to the vet.
> 
> the shots as I do shots myself and would only cost me $2.00.


I agree that dogs are DEFINITELY over vaccinated! Every year is too often for me. And it is NOT a matter of being cheap! I can also get vaccines for practically nothing so cost is not at all the concern. People who are educated about vaccines usually do NOT give them every year and I guarantee, in many cases (mine a lot of others I know) it's not done this way to save a buck.

Now, as to what is often enough? I don't think we know that yet. I am comfortable with getting puppy shots, then a "booster" one year later, then every three years after that. Whether that is right or wrong no one REALLY knows. And I only get 1/2 a dose for Bijou. My vet said this is fine.

In this part of the country I've never heard of a dog getting parvo that was not a puppy. And this is NOT due to the fact that all dogs are vaccinated yearly. They are not. 

Here is more info on vaccinations. INTERESTING reading. http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/vaccines_phillips_myths.htm

Also, I was given the MMR when I was a girl. When I was older and pregnant my doctor discovered that I was NOT immune to Rubella! I had to get the shot immediately following the birth of my daughter.

AND, children right now are breaking out with chicken pox. Children who have been vaccinated and thought to be immune to chicken pox were not immune at all. http://www.medindia.net/news/view_news_main.asp?x=11459

It's all very interesting to me. And what is almost SCARY is how many people assume that vaccines are safe because a vet says so or a doctor says so. Tell that to the people who have had problems (or deaths) related to vaccines!!


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## serina48723 (Jun 11, 2006)

I hope that I am doing this right.

http://www.b-naturals.com/fall97.htm


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## serina48723 (Jun 11, 2006)

this should be an interesting read.


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

LadyBelle1 said:


> I have a question you say that it decreases the immune system but I was just in at the vets on Friday to get puppy shots and she told me that the puppies already have a pretty good immune system from the mothers milk but the puppy shots will actually boost the immune system. So why would she say this if in fact it decreases it?


Immunizations do not "boost the immune system". They introduce something into the dog for the immune system fight and build immunity to. This actually makes the dog's immune system more vulnerable to other diseases while it's trying to fight what is injected. The immune system is busy fighting the things that were injected and makes the immune system less effective in fighting other things the dog might encounter while it's building immunity to the disease it was injected with. Vaccines are supposed to build immunity to the disease that was injected but does not "boost the immune system" in general in any way.


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## dolly'sgrandma (Nov 8, 2005)

Yes, and I remember when dealing with Dolly's mange (demodex) that I was told it would get worse after shots and her spay--due to the lessening of the immune system!


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## kimmiek915 (Oct 4, 2005)

dolly'sgrandma said:


> I listened to a vet on the radio and he discussed titers and said that they are often not accurate and also can be very expensive.
> 
> That said, I DID ask about lepto. I was very concerned about that shot, but my vet said she weighs the risk of the shot with the risk of the disease and lepto is out and about in my neck of the woods...therefore, we did get the shot. I didn't ask about dosages but we did spread out the shots with Dolly, and I don't remember doing that with the big dogs.
> 
> I agree, it's always good to be informed and to discuss all of this with your vets. My sheltie died at age 7 of cancer and I was flabbergasted..I had picked a breed that was hardy, not prone to cancers, had her spayed at 5 mos, etc...and yes, I wondered about vaccines.



I've heard the same thing about titers...

I think for now, I will probably vaccinate my dog at the 1 yr., 16 weeks mark, and the rabies every 3 years, and maybe just do the vaccines every 2-3 years as well. I don't like the thought of overdoing the vaccination, but of course I need to do much more research before I make a final decision. THis is such a difficult thing to decide on...


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## kimmiek915 (Oct 4, 2005)

Sariss said:


> I've heard bad things about both the lepto and lyme vaccines. Our practise chooses not to carry them.



I've heard of alot of chis having bad reactions to the lepto, and my baby had a slight reaction where she got this lump that didn't go away for about a month. So, my chi's vet and I decided to forgoe the lepto next time around. Just thought I would share...


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## kimmiek915 (Oct 4, 2005)

So for those of you who don't go get your babies vaccinated every year, do you all think it would be better to do half the dose and get the shots every year, or just do the full dose and do every other year? I just wanted to ask...


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

Well, I've decided on a half dose every three years after her one year booster (which is in 3 months). At this point in things I think that each person needs to go with what's comfortable for them. This will satisfy me that I'm doing what is right based on what I know and what my vet has told me. BTW, my vet is also a friend so she's more honest about things than someone just out to make money on the annual visits.


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## Clek1430 (Mar 7, 2006)

I am not saying that I don't agree that half the shot would be better then the whole shot. 

But just to put another question out there.... How does anyone know if half the dose is enough to even cover what we are supposed to be vaccinating for? Maybe they need the whole dose even with the size difference? Does any one know for sure or have any research done that shows half is better then the whole dose?


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## dolly'sgrandma (Nov 8, 2005)

I think another factor is the dog's lifestyle. I live in the country and while my big dogs ARE couch potatoes, they DO go outside, and my cats are out and about every day. They all have a risk of contracting rabies from the wild animals out here. Dolly never goes out except on a leash. If she was my only dog, and I knew for a fact that she was mostly inside...I would probably be more laid back about her vaccinations. BUT, if my big dogs get exposed, then come in and lick all over her (which they love to do)...she would be at risk.

All that to say, if I lived in a city with a totally inside chi, I would definitely cut WAY back on vaccines. I don't have that luxury, so I have to figure it out by talking to my vet, etc...I think we'll do the rabies every 3 years and discuss lepto and others.


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

Clek1430 said:


> I am not saying that I don't agree that half the shot would be better then the whole shot.


I once read a perfectly good explanation of why they DO need the whole shot. I've just chosen not to do that. I don't think you can really trust anything you read these days. I wish I knew WHAT to trust and what not to. I used to think I had it all figured out but now I know that NO ONE has it all figured out!!


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

Here is some very good (in my opinion) information on vaccines.
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/vaccine.html
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/vacci01.html


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## LadyBelle1 (Sep 10, 2005)

Clek1430 said:


> This does not save me any money or less trips to the vet. Titers are more expensive then giving the shots as I do shots myself and would only cost me $2.00


Sorry I am off the subject here but where do you get the vaccinations that would only cost you $2? I am just curious if there is a cheap place to get the vaccines because I looked them up and it would cost me the same as taking them to the vet with the shipping. If you have a website could you give me the link because I was thinking of giving Flower's puppies their shots myself but it would cost the same for me on the 2 websites that I looked up to order vaccines.


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## LadyBelle1 (Sep 10, 2005)

Bijou said:


> In this part of the country I've never heard of a dog getting parvo that was not a puppy. And this is NOT due to the fact that all dogs are vaccinated yearly. They are not.


Maybe Nebraska is different but my parents bred chihuahuas and there 11 year old chihuahua got out and got parvo, then there 4 year old male got parvo and then all the puppies started getting it and dying. Well the 11 year old who was vaccinated and the 4 year old were saved with a vet bill totaling over $1300. All the puppies died except 1 who they still have. That is the year they stopped breeding and I don't blame them. It was horrible to have to watch puppies dying of parvo. If you have never heard of an adult dog getting parvo then I am very happy for you but I have seen it more than once. Just cause you haven't seen it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

edited. not worth arguing with you.


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## Sariss (Jan 22, 2006)

Working at an animal hospital, I've seen quite a few older dogs (older than one year, at least) fall ill with parvo. Not reeeeally common, but more than I'd think.
When I worked at a humane society, we vaccinated dogs AFTER they were adopted, the day they were going home. Bad idea, as a parvo pup came in, and we lost 16 dogs to it.


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## LadyBelle1 (Sep 10, 2005)

Bijou said:


> edited. not worth arguing with you.


Obviously when there is nothing to argue about. Would you like to see the vet bills? Whenever this subject is brought up it seems like you are the only ones opinion whos matters. This sublect is still being investigated so why argue until the facts are in? There is extensive research being done on vaccines so I think I will wait until all facts and research are done before I believe anything that someone on the internet states that her friend said. No more argueing cause there is nothing to argue about.


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

Sariss,

Do you know if they were properly vaccinated in the first place? I'm just curious. I think it is a rare thing that a dog would come down with parvo if it has it's initial vaccinations. And I think any dog under the age of two is definitely more suseptible to parvo than a dog older than that. Impossible to get parvo after the age of two? I never said that anywhere, nor would I.

I'm not saying that one should not get their dogs their shots. Like I said we all take the info we have and make the best decisions from that. I feel very comfortable with the 3 year plan. 

And it is entirely possible for a vaccine to fail as well. Did you see the chicken pox vaccine site I posted? LOTS of kids who got the vaccine also ended up with chicken pox. This scares me as I did get the vaccine for my children because, try as I might they never came down with the pox! My daughter was 15 and hadn't gotten them yet so it was becoming dangerous for her to not be immune. Now I find out they may not be immune at all! Just like me, who got the MMR and still was not immune to ruebella. Iowa right now is having a mumps outbreak. Many of the people who are getting mumps have also been vaccinated for it. Nothing is 100% when it comes to viruses and vaccines. Nothing.

And as far as titers go? Look into them as well. They are expensive and there is no proof whatsoever that if the titer shows your dog has antibodies to a disease that it is immune to it. That's a falacy as well.


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

LadyBelle1 said:


> Obviously when there is nothing to argue about. Would you like to see the vet bills? Whenever this subject is brought up it seems like you are the only ones opinion whos matters. This sublect is still being investigated so why argue until the facts are in? There is extensive research being done on vaccines so I think I will wait until all facts and research are done before I believe anything that someone on the internet states that her friend said. No more argueing cause there is nothing to argue about.


My "friend" is a veterinarian. She was responsible for changing the law on rabies from having to get it annually to having to only get it every three years. Makes sense because it is a three year vaccine.

You do what you want with your dogs. No one is telling you to stop vaccinating them. I THOUGHT we were just sharing opinions on vaccination but you turned it into character assasination when you said that people who don't get vaccines every year are just trying to save money. 

And the facts will never all be "in". Have you noticed that every year the medical professionals find something that contradicts what they said the year before? This or that causes cancer. No, now it doesn't, it actually PROTECTS from cancer, blah blah blah.

And if you took the time to read everything I've posted in this thread you will realize that what I am saying is that there is so much contradicting info that all we can do is do our best based on our information. You have information that makes you comfortable vaccinating every year. I don't. That doesn't make me wrong and you right or the other way around. But I do feel like I should be able to post my opinion here just as you do, without being attacked.


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## Ms_P (Apr 25, 2004)

I thought the 3 year rabies was a little different than the 1 year rabies, in that it lasts longer. Sort of like your not suppose to give the 3 year vaccine every year because it's made to last longer. 
My vet offers both kinds but recomends the 3 year rabies the next year after the first 1 year rabies vaccine. :dontknow:


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

Here, they were using the three year vaccine but we had to repeat it every year because of the law. I know there is a one year (at least for cats) but I can't remember why the three year is preferred. Maybe it has something to do with the one year being an adjuvanted vaccine? Adjuvanted vaccines are thought to cause vaccine-site sarcoma.

My vet only uses the one year cat rabies shot. He said the 3 year cat rabies is adjuvanted and has been proven to cause vaccine-site sarcoma so they don't want to risk it. He said they could GET the 3 year vaccine and give it to a cat but I "think" they make the owner sign a waiver or something. If you want I can call them and ask about it.


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## Sariss (Jan 22, 2006)

With the Humane Society, you are never 100% sure of a dog's past. Two that died were owner surrenders that were "apparently" vaccinated.
As far as the clinic goes, the one I remember had been vaccinated for the first year or so of his life, then they stopped.

And yes, definately agree on the titres. Our clinic chooses not to do them due to a high failure rate.


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## Ms_P (Apr 25, 2004)

You don't have to call them on my account, Sandy and Koke are due to go in for their yearly checkup anyway, I can ask when I take them in.
We get a certificate from the vet for which ever rabies shot they get, if we get the 3 year shot we don't have to repeat it every year, so I'm not worried about it.
Sounds like your legislators are a little slow, sorry to hear that.


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## Sariss (Jan 22, 2006)

I'd love to have three year vaccines, mainly because my dogs hate needles.
But in my area it is law to be vaccinated every year for rabies. Even if they are given a 3 year one, so that's out of the question

But, I believe the 3 year is adjuvanted as well. Most killed vaccines are. However, I *believe* there is a recombinant rabies vaccine out there, which I believe is regulated by law in some areas to be given to cats, as adjuvant is considered a carcinogen to cats. But I think the recombinant is a one-year.


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## Alisha (Mar 11, 2005)

I will say 1 thing if your dog got sick every single time he got his shots you would be really hesitant to get him shots all the time not to save money but to save the pain and suffering of your baby. If it's supposed to be so good for them then why does it make Poco sick everytime without fail ? No matter what they do differently he get's sick


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## Ms_P (Apr 25, 2004)

Maybe he's just alergic to it :dontknow:


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## Alisha (Mar 11, 2005)

They give him benadryl everytime & his reactions range from swelling in is face to fever to vomiting & diarrhea  None of which are the same from shot to shot  I hate taking him I feel like I'm torturing him.


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## serina48723 (Jun 11, 2006)

this is my point. Keep talking


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## Ms_P (Apr 25, 2004)

Alisha said:


> They give him benadryl everytime & his reactions range from swelling in is face to fever to vomiting & diarrhea  None of which are the same from shot to shot  I hate taking him I feel like I'm torturing him.


If it's the same vaccine that does it, I would talk to the vet about doing allergy testing. Maybe they can find out if it's the actual virus or one of the inactive ingredients in the vaccine that he's alergic to. If it's one of the inactive ingredients they might be able to get the vaccine from a different manufacturer that has different inactive ingredients.
Just something to think about.


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## serina48723 (Jun 11, 2006)

Bijou, have been following your posts here on this thread, and so far, you and I are thinking along the same wave length here. Just us talking about this issue means that we are all beginning to think that maybe the old addage 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' might not apply here. Just like people, dogs are getting ill from these booster shots, which also said is not 100% effective, even though most vets would lead you to believe that. They are so routine on giving our little ones 'pokes' that they are unaware of the consequences after.

By the way I see some of you asking where to get vaccines. There is only 1 company I deal with, and have dealt with for over 10 years now. Their address is

http://www.revivalanimal.com

They are the best and I trust them completely, and compared to most, their vaccines are very reasonable. Lets all agree on one thing however. It is not the cost that we are talking about here. It is the benifit of our Chi's that we are talking about.


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## kimmiek915 (Oct 4, 2005)

Bijou said:


> Well, I've decided on a half dose every three years after her one year booster (which is in 3 months). At this point in things I think that each person needs to go with what's comfortable for them. This will satisfy me that I'm doing what is right based on what I know and what my vet has told me. BTW, my vet is also a friend so she's more honest about things than someone just out to make money on the annual visits.


Bijou's mommy: 
So, you do the 1/2 dose every three years, but does your baby go out alot? I've been trying to take my baby out on walks at least 4-5 times a week. I think I might go with the 1/2 dose every other year. I think I would be comfortable with that. Either that or the full dose every three years. I still have to decide on which one would be better, but I still think either one of those would be better than vaccinating every year with the full dose. Of course this is just my opinion, so please don't attack me anyone. Anyways, I just wanted to ask you if your baby goes out alot. I mean other than the short walks, my baby stays indoors most of the time, so I think she would be okay not being vaccinated every year. 


Personally, I cringe at the though of over-vaccinating my baby, so I'm really glad that this discussion came up. Thanks for your insight everyone!


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

Kimmie,

No, Bijou doesn't go out a ton. She gets walks around the neighborhood a couple of times a week and then goes over to my daughter's apt about twice a month. At the apt. she and my daughter's dogs are the only dogs there and they use a small, grassy area to go potty on.

I, personally, feel comfortable with the 1/2 shot for a dog Bijou's size. My vet agrees (both vets, actually) so that gives me some reassurance as well. And who knows, any one of us here could be wrong about what we believe. I really do feel that a completely unvaccinated dog is a disaster waiting to happen!


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## kimmiek915 (Oct 4, 2005)

Bijou said:


> Kimmie,
> 
> No, Bijou doesn't go out a ton. She gets walks around the neighborhood a couple of times a week and then goes over to my daughter's apt about twice a month. At the apt. she and my daughter's dogs are the only dogs there and they use a small, grassy area to go potty on.
> 
> I, personally, feel comfortable with the 1/2 shot for a dog Bijou's size. My vet agrees (both vets, actually) so that gives me some reassurance as well. And who knows, any one of us here could be wrong about what we believe. I really do feel that a completely unvaccinated dog is a disaster waiting to happen!



I think I will be going with the 1/2 dose every other year for my baby. I think I would be comfortable going with that, since my baby doesn't go out that much either. Like I said, I just really dislike the thought of over-vaccinating my baby. It's almost like taking medicine when you don't really need it. Anyways, thanks for your help. I know this is a topic that is always difficult to discuss as there is no right or wrong, but it's always nice to be able to have an open discussion like this. So, thanks again. I hope Bijou and the others are doing well!! =)


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## serina48723 (Jun 11, 2006)

My dogs are healthier than they have ever been, and my vet before he died was open enough and knew me enough to allow me to discuss this with him. I got approval from him after talking over all of my research before I ever dreamed of going against the vaccine protocol, and with that said, some states are starting to change theres as well.


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## Clek1430 (Mar 7, 2006)

LadyBelle1 said:


> Sorry I am off the subject here but where do you get the vaccinations that would only cost you $2? I am just curious if there is a cheap place to get the vaccines because I looked them up and it would cost me the same as taking them to the vet with the shipping. If you have a website could you give me the link because I was thinking of giving Flower's puppies their shots myself but it would cost the same for me on the 2 websites that I looked up to order vaccines.


Sorry didn't see this post. Actually I can go right to a farm store near my house. Jeffers or Omaha vaccine company are the cheapest I have found on line. With Chi's your litters are so small that it prob is not worth it. When we have boxer litters there are 6- 11 puppies so then it is cheaper to order on line cause they come in a whole pack at a cheaper price as well.


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## chimama (May 14, 2004)

Wow what a post. I do give my own vaccinations as far as the parvo, but rabies have to be given by a vet. The first year is only good for one year then you can get the 3 year. I do not give my dogs lepto but they are not outside much. I don't like people touching my dogs so I don't take them where people will want to touch them. After I lost my puppy to parvo who never went outside, it was winter, and had never been anywhere, I am very cautious. My vet said the parvo could have come in on our shoes. I think you need to do what you are comfortable with and talk to your vet, if your vet is not willing to listen then you need a new one that is willing.

I work in the medical field and shots do not "boost your immune" system. They help your cells learn to fight that particular germ, then when your puppy is exposed to the disease their body will have the immunities already in place to fight that germ.


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## dolly'sgrandma (Nov 8, 2005)

You're right about parvo. My vet told us to bleach the bottoms of our shoes if we went anywhere that lots of dogs went (before Dolly was totally vaccinated). I've had some experience with it and I would do anything to keep my pup from getting it. The other shots, I do ask a lot of q's about.


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## chimama (May 14, 2004)

The vet that we took him too had a cat pan with a towel in it soaked in bleach and we had to step in that every time we walked out of or into his room.


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## veguroev (Nov 30, 2005)

dolly'sgrandma said:


> Hi Susan,
> Welcome to Chihuahua people! Don't you love this site?
> 
> I live in Texas too (Boerne). I actually thought we had gone to 3 year vaccines? Either way, we are going every other year with our dogs (by choice). I'm pretty sure I'm getting shots every three years for the cats now. I let my vet send the reminder card, and they are coming way less often!


I'm curious, Is it by law that the vets have to give every three years vaccinacions to you dogs in Texas? (I live in Houston)My question is because I just changed vets (my previous vet move to another area of town), he was giving my dogs and my cat vaccinations every three years. However, this new vet, told me that they give vaccines ever 6 months. I just got a puppy and that is how he plans on working with my puppy since Chikis is not due until 2008 and Kiki (the cat) until 2007. I'd really like to know about that, 'cause otherwise I need to tell him somthing


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## Sariss (Jan 22, 2006)

What vaccines is he planning on giving every six months? Once a year should be the absolute most they should be vaccinated.


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