# allergic to venison? And why give Vit E? :)



## JANIE (Feb 8, 2012)

Hello. My dog has been on ZP lamb. And he gets fish oil a couple times a week. lately i changed to ZP venison and fish. He has lots of dandruff lately i'm noticing. it is the middle of winter, so is it the cold, or is it the venison?

Also, I notice some of you give your dogs vitamin e. How come? How often should I give it, and is it possible to give too much?

thank you very much.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I have not found any studies saying that dogs need vitamin E. Having said that, in people, fish oil is best absorbed with vitamin E. Many fish oils even include vitamin E (alpha tocopherols) in their formulas. It's a jump to say that fish oil is best absorbed in dogs when taken with vitamin E. However, it probably doesn't hurt to give it at the same time as fish oil. If you do, choose a small dose (2ooiu) and just give a couple times a week.

I think that Mel gives vitamin E routinely, she may have more insight. 

I have no idea if the venison and fish formula is disagreeing with your dog. You might try going back to the lamb formula and see if the dandruff disappears. It may just be a coincidence.


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## Mel's chi's (Jun 2, 2011)

JANIE said:


> Hello. My dog has been on ZP lamb. And he gets fish oil a couple times a week. lately i changed to ZP venison and fish. He has lots of dandruff lately i'm noticing. it is the middle of winter, so is it the cold, or is it the venison?
> 
> Also, I notice some of you give your dogs vitamin e. How come? How often should I give it, and is it possible to give too much?
> 
> thank you very much.





Brodysmom said:


> I have not found any studies saying that dogs need vitamin E. Having said that, in people, fish oil is best absorbed with vitamin E. Many fish oils even include vitamin E (alpha tocopherols) in their formulas. It's a jump to say that fish oil is best absorbed in dogs when taken with vitamin E. However, it probably doesn't hurt to give it at the same time as fish oil. If you do, choose a small dose (2ooiu) and just give a couple times a week.
> 
> I think that Mel gives vitamin E routinely, she may have more insight.
> 
> I have no idea if the venison and fish formula is disagreeing with your dog. You might try going back to the lamb formula and see if the dandruff disappears. It may just be a coincidence.


So what my first impression is, is that the change to venison & fish may have left you with a lower fat content than the lamb you were feeding ( I'm not positive though since I am not super familiar with ZP and their nutritional values). This in itself could cause more drying of the skin (especially in the cooler months). I would for sure be adding fish, flax, etc..oils daily.

Next, my opinion is that any dog getting any type of pre made (commercial) food should be on vitamin E. The usual dosage is 100IU per 20lbs daily. For raw feeders, I still believe in adding vit E since our meats are still not the old home raised quality usually--however raw will provide a much better amount of quality E (best sources are organ meats, eggs, seafood, dark green leafy veggies--I puree mine in my Vita Mix Machine--and avocado).
Vitamin E improves the assimilation & distribution of nutrients throughout the body, slowing the symptoms of aging, keeping the heart healthy & invigorating older dogs, improves the skin & coats of all dogs and boosts resistance to disease. With this in mind, I feel it is worth it to provide my pack with E. 

I give my Chi's the NOW brand vit E in liquid form since finding pills below 100IU is difficult. This way it is simple to add a few drops to their dinner meal several times a week.

Hope this was somewhat helpful and not just a bore


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Mel, have you found a source of vitamin E that doesn't contain soy? Just curious as some dogs are allergic to soy and even the smallest amount can cause a reaction. If a dog isn't sensitive to soy, then its not a problem. I have talked to raw feeders who won't feed any amount of soy at all because of it's propensity to be an allergen. Just wondering your thoughts on that?


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## Mel's chi's (Jun 2, 2011)

Brodysmom said:


> Mel, have you found a source of vitamin E that doesn't contain soy? Just curious as some dogs are allergic to soy and even the smallest amount can cause a reaction. If a dog isn't sensitive to soy, then its not a problem. I have talked to raw feeders who won't feed any amount of soy at all because of it's propensity to be an allergen. Just wondering your thoughts on that?


Solaray makes a liquid vit E that is soy free.
I like that one, but forgot to order when I was out, so picked up the NOW brand liquid E at my local store. I have not had any problems with the small amounts of soy that mine get with the E. I wasn't really worried either since in the past I have used lecithin as a supplement for my last sheltie and had no issues. 
Funny, it is also a common allergen they test for in people. In fact, you can test positive and yet do the elimination diet for it and see no difference. Allergies are such a quirky thing in both humans and animals. The minute I see any itching is when I really start looking for an allergen (be it food or environment).

My philosophy with it is moderation...in fact, it is my "creed" if you will....everything in moderation!:daisy:


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Mel's chi's said:


> Solaray makes a liquid vit E that is soy free.
> I like that one, but forgot to order when I was out, so picked up the NOW brand liquid E at my local store. I have not had any problems with the small amounts of soy that mine get with the E. I wasn't really worried either since in the past I have used lecithin as a supplement for my last sheltie and had no issues.
> Funny, it is also a common allergen they test for in people. In fact, you can test positive and yet do the elimination diet for it and see no difference. Allergies are such a quirky thing in both humans and animals. The minute I see any itching is when I really start looking for an allergen (be it food or environment).
> 
> My philosophy with it is moderation...in fact, it is my "creed" if you will....everything in moderation!:daisy:


I'll keep an eye out for the soy free vitamin E, but so far Brody has an iron tummy and doesn't seem to have any sensitivities at all. I have used IN as a supplement and it contains flax and also lecithin and no problems so far. 

I love your philosophy "Everything in Moderation!" I agree with that too!!!!


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

I am following (learning from) this thread so thank you all.

ZP Lamb:
Lamb » ZiwiPeak

ZP Venison and Fish:
Venison & Fish » ZiwiPeak

Indeed, the Lamb (which Hope cannot tolerate) has 1% more fat than the Venison and Fish.


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## JANIE (Feb 8, 2012)

Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to respond, I truly appreciate it.  Now, I understand that Vit E is a fat soluable vitamin, which means it can get stored in the fat overtime and overdose can occur (versus vitamin C which is water soluable and just gets peed out in excess). Is this a valid concern?

And Mel, none of that was a bore. Do you know how amazing I find it that you, Brody's Mom, and Jesus CHick responded? Thank you very much. In addition, I found your analysis of the lamb versus venison and the dryness of his coat to be very interesting. I have mixed his venison with his remaining lamb and I have upped his fish oil intake, so we will see if that makes a difference. I think it may have already, which indicates to me this is not an allergy.

May I ask one more question? Do any of you give glucosamine?


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I give glucosamine.  I give glycoflex iii which has glucosamine in it. It also contains MSM and green lipped Mussel. Also small amounts of vitamin E and C. Brody has solid patellas and hips, but I am hedging my bets and giving supplements anyway. Our breed is so prone to bad knees and hips. It's just rampant in our breed. They are small, they can get injured so easily. I like giving supplements to make sure that joints and bones are at their optimum.

The formulation I use is a chewable. Brody is a very picky eater and he will eat a chewable. He will refuse a liquid and I didn't want to pill him every day. Powders are iffy, sometimes he will eat them, sometimes not. So the chewable formulation works for us. He gets half of one chewable once a day.

Here's the info sheet on glycoflex ....

Glyco-Flex (glyco flex) III and Bite Sized Chews, glycoflex for dogs: Joint support supplement (glycoflex, glyco flex)

There are other good joint supplements out there. This is just the one I am currently using. I also like Nupro with the joint support and have used it in the past. Nupro is an excellent vitamin/mineral supplement.

Dog Vitamin Supplements Dog Vitamins Arthritis Dogs Treatments

Nupro Silver Daily Vitamin Joint Support Dog Supplement


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## Mel's chi's (Jun 2, 2011)

Janie, I am not concerned with the E vitamin being fat soluble, since I am dosing conservatively and within the correct ratio of IUs to weight.

As far as the glucosamine, I used to give it to my sheltie. When I tried it on my border collie she was allergic...itching constant ( due to the shellfish), so a no go for her, and i have not tried on the chis. I was just using people pills, as it was not a problem to mix it in with his ground meat. However, I do like Tracy's suggestions above.


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