# Well Bred vs. Pure Bred



## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

I see many people here looking at puppies or features of a dog and saying things like..

I was told that he was prue bred
He is KC registered
The parents are both chi-s
I saw the mum and the dad they looked chi
He had papers
The breeder has a snazzy web page

None of that really is what is going to make a difference in the dogs conformation, features and such to get them to standard.

If you are looking at a pedigree, you have to look for a history of conformation to the KC chi standard--look for Champs in the pedigree they have shown/proven the standard.

Just because everyone in the pedigree has a name and kennel registration doesn't mean the dogs weren't off.

If both parents are chihuahua --they aren't necessarily well bred and good examples of the breed.

I am so wary of breeder web sites with glitter and music--and those pictures of pups with excessive props--none of that show that the breeder is in it for bettering the breed. Those sorts of things are usually out there to sell pups.

When you look at a pup, pay attention to all of the dogs in the breeders care. Not just the mum and dad-dam and sire. The dogs tha tthe breeder has show what the breeder thinks is chi standard. A good indication of what his/her pups will be like a adults.

In many cases PURE bred doesn't mean WELL bred.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

This is spot on Rubia.

Many people think that papers equal quality. This is far from the truth. Papers are only proof (and some people will even dispute this unless there is DNA evidence) that the puppies parents are Chihuahua's. 

Quality Chi's? Conform to the standard? You certainly can't tell that just from having papers! You could have a 15 pound purple Chihuahua with papers. KC papers or AKC papers (or other registries) are only that. Registries. They do NOT give an indication of the dogs quality AT ALL.

I always compare papers to the title on a car. It is paperwork. You could have two cars, one a rust bucket that doesn't even drive, and one in showroom perfect condition. On paper, they might look EXACTLY THE SAME. This is applicable to dogs as well.

If you truly want a dog that conforms to the standard, you have to BUY FROM breeders who believe in conforming to the standard. That means buying from breeders who SHOW their breeding stock. This is the only way to prove that their dogs are representative of the breed. Champions in pedigrees is nice. But if they are grandparents or farther back, their influence is very diluted.


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

Lola is not well bred or a good example of her breed looks wise. BUT she is the most gorgeous, cute loving dog so I don't care.


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

and if I had to choose her or a perfect chi I would pic her.


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

MarieUkxx said:


> Lola is not well bred or a good example of her breed looks wise. BUT she is the most gorgeous, cute loving dog so I don't care.


And that's perfectly fine if that's what you like in a companion...and no one will care...as long as she's not bred. 

I agree that there's a huge difference between pure bred and well bred. Papers mean nothing. It's the breeding behind it that counts. Heck, my gf had an AKC registered Chi in rescue that weighed 24 pounds. He was a purebred....but not exactly what the Standard calls for. Sweetest dog you'll ever meet...but no one knew he was a Chi when you looked at him. And when Continental Kennel Club came out, it was easy to register obviously not purebred dogs just to have "papers." To this day there is a piece of furniture registered as a Chi and the general public is still misled by the term "papers" and don't know to verify AKC, which can alteast verify that the lineage is Chis. So who know's what you're getting in terms of looks and health.

We have established registries and Breed Standards for a reason. While everyone may not agree with the interpretation, and not every breeder will show (although I personally think they should), every breeder should always breed to the country's Standard. Otherwise, we'll lose the individual breeds as they all become generic little dogs and we won't have a Chi, a Pom, a Yorkie, a Silky, a Maltese, a Rat Terrier, a Pap, etc., etc. 

Lisa


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

It's such a tough call to make. There are so many breeders out there, and so many claim to have all the appropriate ducks in a row, but then something sheds light on the fact that it is not.

I was working with a show breeder who seemed completely on the up and up. There was a precious little boy that she was going to sell me...he died the weekend I was supposed to pick him up, at 10 weeks of age! I heard a bit from a few other breeders that I had gotten lucky, even though the pup was champion sired, charting appropriately, and had great conformation. What I forgot was that part of "conformation" is HEALTH!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

MarieUkxx said:


> Lola is not well bred or a good example of her breed looks wise. BUT she is the most gorgeous, cute loving dog so I don't care.


Marie - Brody would be kicked out of any dog show he walked into!! ha ha! And I don't care either that he doesn't conform to the standard, because he is neutered. He is the most wonderful dog in the world. But he is NOT breeding quality. NO matter how cute, adorable, and wonderful he is. That's the difference. 

Irresponsible breeders just throw 2 dogs together, purebred or not, without a thought in the world about what the standard is or why we have it. If that continues, there won't BE any more Chihuahua's as we know them. Or other breeds! If breeders just breed to make a buck, or because they think their pet is "pretty", then what the ideal Chi should look like will be lost.


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## smallbeats_m_all (Nov 22, 2009)

sorry but this is totally off topic but just made me think, I grew up in the horse breeding world and its the exact same as the dog world! lol! 
remembering overhearing comments as a child about purebreds any typing and how sires influence and mares influence and yadda yadda... 
all important stuff,
anyhoo..
just took me back  had to blab about it  sorry LOL!


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## LostLakeLua (Sep 6, 2009)

I have kinda a weird question.. I know that the 'standard' chi has a very short nose. IMO, personally, I strongly prefer a pointier nose, the 'deer head,' I just think they look a lot cuter. Now, I know a lot of people who feel that way... I don't know how many people have met Kahlua and told me they think she's really cute 'for a chihuahua, because she doesn't have that smushed face'.... 
Is this really that much against the standard? Most of the 'champion' dogs that I've seen have the shorter snouts, and while I think all dogs are beautiful I just prefer the deer type much more. I guess what I'm asking is, if a breeder is breeding dogs that have longer snouts, because it's 'against the standard' does that make them a bad breeder? =S Just curious


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I would question the motivation of the breeder. What are they trying to accomplish with the breeding? Do they do any health testing? Or are they just breeding dogs together because they like what they look like without regard to standards or health?


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## Jerry'sMom (May 5, 2009)

I am proud of my dogs. They are pure-bred and well-bred...
It's worth being selective for many reasons. Just to name a few:
health, beauty, and temperament. Don't settle for less.


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## Whisper (Mar 25, 2010)

Lucy is a pet store chi and is not well bred. She is a few pounds over 6, has an underbite, doesn't have a "domed" head like the standard says, etc. I wouldn't trade her for the world.

That being said, I will not support pet stores or puppy mills (the two go hand in hand) ever again. (I was terribly uninformed when I got Lucy.) My next chi is coming from a reputable breeder. No more pet stores or BYBs.


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## Jerry'sMom (May 5, 2009)

*Good For You!*



Whisper said:


> ....No more pet stores or BYBs.


:hello1::hello1::hello1:

I'm very happy to hear someone say that out loud on Chi Ppl!

I wonder why people (WHO KNOW BETTER) do not go to quality breeders. 
It certainly is not a money issue. I paid less for my dogs combined than 
many of the internet ads are asking from high volume breeders, BYBs and 
Puppy Mills.


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

The lenght of the snout should be no more than 1/3 of the head size...a lot of room there for sure. The trend in champs is for the really small with a good stop about 90 degrees or better.

A good breeder definitly breeds for health. The responsible ones sell pups to pet homes with spay and neuter agreements. Pets are not meant to be bred.

My own dog is a pet--very well bred pet. He'd never make is as a show dog.....his nose is too long, he is shy, he only "stacks" be accident--if he is wary of a strange dog his tail goes between his legs.

As a pet he is very healthy, friendly to his friends and family, he is kind and very happy to be where he is in life. 

I love him but he was meant to be a pet and not a champion. I do thank God everyday that I made the decision to be with his breeder. His breeding is why his health and temperment are so good. Physically he meets the chi standards--he doesn't have what it takes for the show world however.

The ill-bred dogs have lots of health problems. When we hear of horror stories about bad breeders their pups have hydro, LP, heart problems, temperment issues over and over. A responsible breeder doesn't breed that sort of dog.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

rubia said:


> A good breeder definitly breeds for health. The responsible ones sell pups to pet homes with spay and neuter agreements. Pets are not meant to be bred.
> 
> The ill-bred dogs have lots of health problems. When we hear of horror stories about bad breeders their pups have hydro, LP, heart problems, temperment issues over and over. A responsible breeder doesn't breed that sort of dog.


This cannot be emphasized enough and I'm glad you brought up the issue of HEALTH Rubia. 

A reputable breeder will attain certification on eyes, hearts, and patellas and breed from a line that is seizure and hydrocephalus free. The Chihuahua Club of America recommends that these tests be done before breeding: CERF test for eye diseases, CARDIAC certification to test for heart disease, and PATELLAS (checking knees for luxation which is a genetic disease). These health certifications should be done not just on the breeding pair, but back in the pedigree as far as you can trace.

If your breeder has never heard of the CCA and doesn't do health testing, look elsewhere!! It is WORTH IT to buy from a breeder who screens for genetic diseases.


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## Jerry'sMom (May 5, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> This cannot be emphasized enough and I'm glad you brought up the issue of HEALTH Rubia.
> 
> A reputable breeder will attain certification on eyes, hearts, and patellas and breed from a line that is seizure and hydrocephalus free. The Chihuahua Club of America recommends that these tests be done before breeding: CERF test for eye diseases, CARDIAC certification to test for heart disease, and PATELLAS (checking knees for luxation which is a genetic disease). These health certifications should be done not just on the breeding pair, but back in the pedigree as far as you can trace.
> 
> If your breeder has never heard of the CCA and doesn't do health testing, look elsewhere!! It is WORTH IT to buy from a breeder who screens for genetic diseases.


*
from the Chihuahua Club of America:*

http://www.chihuahuaclubofamerica.com/NEW TRANSFER/COE1.html

Code Of Ethics

"As a member of The Chihuahua Club of America, I pledge to uphold the goals of the Club as set forth in the club’s Constitution and By-Laws, to encourage good sportsmanship in the sport of dogs, and to set an example of honorable kennel business practices when dealing with any person. 

Specifically, I further pledge: 

To uphold the American Kennel Club rules applying to Dog Shows and Registration, particularly as regards to the maintenance of complete and accurate breeding records. 

To accept and uphold the Standard of the Chihuahua as developed by The Chihuahua Club of America and approved by the American Kennel Club. 

To breed only A.K.C. registered Chihuahuas (does not apply to foreign members) with the aim of maintaining or improving the qualities of the breed as set forth in the Standard, and not for personal gain. I will not participate in the buying or selling of dogs at auctions and I will never knowingly sell puppies to wholesalers, laboratories or to pet stores, and will encourage any puppy buyer to behave similarly. 

To serve as an example of good sportsmanship in every aspect of the sport of dogs, and to assist and befriend newcomers and novices to the best of my ability. 

To keep myself informed in the areas of dog health and genetics and to carefully screen all breeding stock for hereditary faults or disqualifying defects, removing any questionable animals from my breeding program. This includes cardiac, patella and eye testing as recommended by the Canine Health Foundation’s CHIC program. 

To conduct all my kennel practices in a clear, honorable and open fashion, and to use written agreements or contracts whenever possible. 

8.12.08"

*Soooooo.... if you find your breeder from CCA, you don't have to become an expert
in genetic testing....*


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Thanks Therese for posting the Code of Ethics from the Chihuahua Club of America. If only EVERY breeder would adhere to these high standards!!


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## Jerry'sMom (May 5, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> Thanks Therese for posting the Code of Ethics from the Chihuahua Club of America. If only EVERY breeder would adhere to these high standards!!


and, when you find your breeder from CCA, you don't have to become an expert in genetic testing....


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## MarieUkxx (May 19, 2009)

I agree papers and registration mean nothing sometimes.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

And even seeing the parents means nothing - anyone who has been here a while will know that we bought our first "chi" Biggles from a byb - he was tiny and apparently 8 weeks, but I now think he was probably a lot younger to be so tiny then. Well he is now a whopping 15 or 16 lbs with not an ounce of that being fat - and yes we saw the parents both mother and father - both of who were two little chis weighing about 4 or 5 lbs - LOL there was no way that he was theirs!! Luckily he is a much loved and happy dog.

We learned our lesson and our two other chis have come from the most wonderful lady (freedomchis) who shows, and loves and cares for her dogs like no-one I have ever known!  yes even the ones she gave me - not a week goes by but that she is enquiring and wondering how our pups are doing


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Aquarius said:


> And even seeing the parents means nothing - anyone who has been here a while will know that we bought our first "chi" Biggles from a byb - he was tiny and apparently 8 weeks, but I now think he was probably a lot younger to be so tiny then. Well he is now a whopping 15 or 16 lbs with not an ounce of that being fat - and yes we saw the parents both mother and father - both of who were two little chis weighing about 4 or 5 lbs - LOL there was no way that he was theirs!! Luckily he is a much loved and happy dog.
> 
> We learned our lesson and our two other chis have come from the most wonderful lady (freedomchis) who shows, and loves and cares for her dogs like no-one I have ever known!  yes even the ones she gave me - not a week goes by but that she is enquiring and wondering how our pups are doing


Jane, the relationship you have with your breeder is PRICELESS!! That is awesome.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Yes, Tracy I am very lucky  She still adores my dogs, even though I have them since 12 weeks - she's their other "mom" and even her children still want to know how they are doing, and hope to visit us this summer - I suppose that is the difference between a breeder who breeds for the love of the breed and one who does it for cash only.


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

Jane- That is what I think is important--especialy for people like me who are buying a pet chihuahua--that we have a breeder who is in it for the love of the dog. Someone who can give you information and guide you along if need be. I was given a phone number and told to ring whenever--for anything at all. She rang to see how he was getting on ,etc. Just genuine and kind.

Your Biggles is like a children's story....


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