# We have puppies.



## quinnandleah

My silly little girl waited until I left and didn't have a cellphone on me to go into labor. :foxes15: Lucky for me and her grandma breed dogs when I was little. My mom says that labor started about 11am. The first puppy a little black boy was born at about 12:46. He weighs 7 oz. The second little boy was born at about 1:46 and weighs 7.2 oz. The little girl was born 15 minutes after her brother and weighs 6.6 oz.

See what happens when you leave.


















Boy#1









Boy #2









Girl









Auntie Eva wants to know what all the fussing is about.

















Daddy Quinn and Eva had a long day


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## teetee

they are just beautiful! Hope momma isn't too worn out and is enjoying her babies!


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## quinnandleah

teetee said:


> they are just beautiful! Hope momma isn't too worn out and is enjoying her babies!


She is doing good. They are in their box by my feet right now. We have the house to ourselves since everyone else went to the drive in tonight.


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## lulu'smom

She looks like a natural little momma. Adorable little ones.


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## Sparkles Mom

Congrats! Are you thinking of spaying Mama after this litter?


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## KittyD

Congrats! how old is Leah? I could have sworn I saw a siggy where she was under a year? I'm probably wrong :lol:

ETA: Actually I am going to rescind my congratulations, I see that your dog is about 7.5 months old, if she is the same dog "Leah" who was 6 weeks old when you joined back in Sept. She's much too young to be having pups, I do send wishes to your dog that she is healthy and there are no issues as a result of her becoming a mother so young.

I'm utterly confused why anyone would breed a dog at such a young age.


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## 20887

KittyD said:


> ETA: Actually I am going to rescind my congratulations, I see that your dog is about 7.5 months old, if she is the same dog "Leah" who was 6 weeks old when you joined back in Sept. She's much too young to be having pups, I do send wishes to your dog that she is healthy and there are no issues as a result of her becoming a mother so young.
> 
> I'm utterly confused why anyone would breed a dog at such a young age.


I believe it was an accidental breeding, the OP posted a while back about it.

I do not agree with breeding mixed dogs, but I am glad that Leah made it through okay considering her age.


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## nabi

cute pups...glad mom and babies are doing ok....


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## Wicked Pixie

So pleased that everything went well, and that you have healthy puppies and a healthy mummy.


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## theshanman97

Congrats! and the people saying about age , mix breeding ect. dont listen to them! its rude to do that! accidents happen sometimes and sometimes you cant stop something! they can go into season without you knowing sometimes  well congrats! and DONT let people make you feel bad! things can happen EVEN happen to the most responsible people! so congrats and i hope everything goes well!  x


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## kimr

theshanman97 said:


> Congrats! and the people saying about age , mix breeding ect. dont listen to them! its rude to do that! accidents happen sometimes and sometimes you cant stop something! they can go into season without you knowing sometimes  well congrats! and DONT let people make you feel bad! things can happen EVEN happen to the most responsible people! so congrats and i hope everything goes well!  x


The age, the mix, and the 'accident' are problematic. 

The mother is far too young and it's a miracle she came through it okay. It's a good thing it's a small litter, because she may not be mature enough to care for them, and if not, a human will have to take over or they will die.

I have no problem with mixes, but dachsund/Chihuahua mixes fill the animal shelters around here. I hope these have wonderful homes waiting for them, but they could all suffer the same fate at any point down the line. It's not a popular mix - not in this area, anyway. 

The 'accident' could have easily been prevented, by spaying or seperating her from the male for those few days that she could get pregnant. A little education goes a long way if you're going to keep intact males and females together. 

We can't make excuses for things like this - 'accidents' and 'excuses' are euthanized every day. 

I, too, and glad that mom and babies appear healthy for now, but I think it's a shame that this happened.


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## theshanman97

kimr said:


> The age, the mix, and the 'accident' are problematic.
> 
> The mother is far too young and it's a miracle she came through it okay. It's a good thing it's a small litter, because she may not be mature enough to care for them, and if not, a human will have to take over or they will die.
> 
> I have no problem with mixes, but dachsund/Chihuahua mixes fill the animal shelters around here. I hope these have wonderful homes waiting for them, but they could all suffer the same fate at any point down the line. It's not a popular mix - not in this area, anyway.
> 
> The 'accident' could have easily been prevented, by spaying or seperating her from the male for those few days that she could get pregnant. A little education goes a long way if you're going to keep intact males and females together.
> 
> We can't make excuses for things like this - 'accidents' and 'excuses' are euthanized every day.
> 
> I, too, and glad that mom and babies appear healthy for now, but I think it's a shame that this happened.


yeah i dont agree with what shes done and im taking no bodies sides but i just didnt think it was fair to do that to someone who is probably already feeling v guilty! but i didnt know about that mix of dogs and danger , see tillie missed but it wasent an accident and shes from a breeder who for YEARS bred lappsoapsos (Cant Spell it )

I dont agree with this BUT as long as the mums and puppies are ok and nothing will happen again so i think we should just be glad all are ok!


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## Jennmay

Ahh so cute.. Glad Mom and pups are doing well.


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## ~LS~

Quinnandleah, you are a very nice person, we chatted a little bit on this forum
and you were never anything but sweet. And you already know my thoughts
regarding the breeding of mutts, I do not agree with it. As you know I rescue
dogs and cats, and I am the one who ends up with the result of "oops" litters
and people breeding because their dogs are "cute". I know this time it was an
accident. But you did say you wanted to breed your dogs when they are 2
years old, because your family all think they are cute and want some...something 
along those lines, please correct me if I'm wrong, I had a rough night and my
memory might be a bit off. This is a very touchy subject for me, I wish you
would see it from my perspective and not further breed your dogs. There are
enough mutts in shelters and rescues as is. They are killing them daily, they
are killing them in huge numbers, because no one wants them, the demand for
mutts is very very small, but the number of them is too high. Perhaps you will
find homes for all your puppies, but that is not enough, because the new
owners might accidentally or purposely breed your puppy and therefore keep 
on contributing to the never ending cycle. I strongly suggest that you spay
and neuter the puppies before they leave your home. Please take my words
as they are, which are coming from my heart. I am only speaking my mind
because I care about dogs, I care about _your _dogs.


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## CHITheresa

Awe so cute so adorable...


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## KittyD

I read the past posts, i went back and read them to get up to speed on this situation.
She claims this was an accident, it happened when her mom was watching the dogs (her mom who had bred dogs for years?) I guess I just don't understand how it can be an accident, you have intact dogs, you keep them totally seperate or even in different locations to avoid this sort of thing happening, especially someone who has bred dogs before they absolutely understand these things.

In the end, she had planned on breeding the exact same dogs in question.
I'm not convinced anything was an accident here :lol: but in the end it does not matter what I think or any of us really.. they are her dogs not ours.

It's just sad for the puppy in question, her growth would have been stalled while pregnant & I hope shes being fed a really high end food to help boost her back up. I also hope her puppies are ok and that she does not reject them.


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## LostLakeLua

~LS~ said:


> Quinnandleah, you are a very nice person, we chatted a little bit on this forum
> and you were never anything but sweet. And you already know my thoughts
> regarding the breeding of mutts, I do not agree with it. As you know I rescue
> dogs and cats, and I am the one who ends up with the result of "oops" litters
> and people breeding because their dogs are "cute". I know this time it was an
> accident. But you did say you wanted to breed your dogs when they are 2
> years old, because your family all think they are cute and want some...something
> along those lines, please correct me if I'm wrong, I had a rough night and my
> memory might be a bit off. This is a very touchy subject for me, I wish you
> would see it from my perspective and not further breed your dogs. There are
> enough mutts in shelters and rescues as is. They are killing them daily, they
> are killing them in huge numbers, because no one wants them, the demand for
> mutts is very very small, but the number of them is too high. Perhaps you will
> find homes for all your puppies, but that is not enough, because the new
> owners might accidentally or purposely breed your puppy and therefore keep
> on contributing to the never ending cycle. I strongly suggest that you spay
> and neuter the puppies before they leave your home. Please take my words
> as they are, which are coming from my heart. I am only speaking my mind
> because I care about dogs, I care about _your _dogs.


Agreed wholeheartedly. If you need copies of printable Spay/Neuter and adoption contracts let me know.


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## momofmany

I agree she is far far to young to be a mom if you are a responsible person you would never let this happen. To a dog so young. She would be wearing diapers or the male would or they would be kept totally separate.I know that accidents can happen because I have Penelope to prove it. My daughter let her out when I wasn't home not knowing she was in heat and the Min pin a cross the street got her. I was not happy and it ended up with her dieing from complications. Penelope will not ever be allowed to breed she will be fixed before she goes into heat again. Her brother and sister will also be fixed as one went to the father of the pups owner and the other went to my BFF and neither of them believe in bringing a bunch of unwanted mutts into the world.

I'm glad to see that mom and pups are doing well for now please watch your mom dog for milk fever she is so young and they can go very quickly maybe mix some plain yougart in with her food for the extra calcium she needs to feed those pups.


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## carrieandcricket

The puppies are so cute. I'm glad they are all doing well.


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## quinnandleah

Okay I really didn't expect to get bombarded by the lynch mob again since I had posted in April about her being pregnant. I'm not going to have time to reply to each post but I'll try to answer everyone's questions.

This was an accident. When Leah was in heat she was either with me away from my other dogs as I worked for a friend babysitting. Or in a separate room from the boys when we were home. She was wearing diapers and the boys were both wearing belly bands. The tie happened when I was not home, I had bought tickets for a movie release months before Leah went into heat...anyway. The tie happened after my little brother brought her back in after taking her potty. He made the mistake of setting her down to put her leash up and she got away from him. I wasn't told about it until way after the fact so there was nothing that I could have done. And I'm sorry but I don't believe in any kind of abortion or babies human or animal.

I have had contact with a vet during her whole pregnancy and even let my cellphone and such get disconnected so that I could be sure to have money put away should an emergency arise when she had the puppies. My dogs are my life, I have them to help me manage my depression. Their needs come before mine, my stepdad yelled at me the other day because I choose between paying a bill and my dogs getting food. 

On the issues of mixed breeds. I'm sure many of the breeds started off by being mixed with something once upon a time. There are mixed breeds that are well loved. One of the most popular off the top of my head are golden doodles. What helps make a breed acceptable is a really rich person making a case for them.

I'm sorry if any of my views upsets anyone and I'm sure it will make some just ignore me all together. But that is your choice.

If I haven't answered a question you had feel free to ask and I'll answer when I can.


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## Kayota

Spay and neuter the puppies before you sell them... PLEASE... That's all I ask. Everything else has already been said.


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## 20887

quinnandleah said:


> Okay I really didn't expect to get bombarded by the lynch mob again since I had posted in April about her being pregnant. I'm not going to have time to reply to each post but I'll try to answer everyone's questions.
> 
> 
> 
> On the issues of mixed breeds. I'm sure many of the breeds started off by being mixed with something once upon a time. There are mixed breeds that are well loved. One of the most popular off the top of my head are golden doodles. What helps make a breed acceptable is a really rich person making a case for them.


Sorry but I just find that a silly excuse. Since dogs started out as mixed breeds, it is okay to breed mixed dogs? Golden doodles might be a "well loved" mixed breed, but regardless they are not a breed. It is a mixed dog that someone created and that BYB's breed. No responsible breeder would breed a mix. Reading your last post, I see that you wanted to breed your dogs because your family member wanted "a fluffy chi weenie." You are willing to put your dog through pregnancy because your family member can't just go adopt a dog from a shelter or buy a purebred dog from a responsible breeder? Sorry but I would never risk my dog's life because someone in my family wanted a puppy.

I do hope that you are going to keep those puppies until they are old enough to fix, and spay and neuter every one before you sell them. If not, then you are just contributing to the problem.


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## pastel

Very cute puppies  I'm sure you've heard enough of the criticisms from us and will take it to heart. Enjoy your pups!


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## momofmany

They are very cute pups and like I said accidents can happen. I didn't mean to critisise you in anyway. I'm just concerned for the mom dog because she is so so young. And the fact that I just lost my dog due to complications. She had had 5 litters of purebred shih-tzu and I had retired her. I should have fixed her long before she got pregnent the last time but its been tough the last couple years for me. Spent 2 years recovering from septacimia when I got blood poisoning that went to my heart. My legs burnt from the inside out because of the infection and my tendons shriveled up into a big ball behind my knee so it took months and months of stretching them back out again so I could walk again. I also had a nurse come in to do the bandages on my legs because the flesh on my legs was dead and need to stay moist so that it could slowly be peeled off so it could heal my ankle on my right foot is seized in appointed possision so I have to walk on my toes because my ankle won't move to be able to put my foot flat on the ground. I know this is no excuse but I was trying to get my life back and getting my dog fixed was just not a priority at the time. My male was fixed we had a fenced yard and so it wasn't difficult to keep her from getting pregnant. Then the worst possible thing happened and she got pregnant with a Min Pin a beautiful purebred red Min pin but she was a shih_tzu and had never had anything but purebred puppy's plus she was getting up in years and I had retired her. She went through the pregnancy with no problems and had 4 pups one was still born. Three days after she was crying and walking and then laying down. I rushed her to the vet and on the way she died in my arms. There was a pup inside her that had died and caused an infection and I lost my beloved dog. I raised her puppy's and gave them to people that I new would love them and have them fixed. The owner of the Min pin took one she's a breeder of pure bred dogs she fixed Barkley as soon as he dropped she didn't want any accidents happening with her dogs. Sophie,Pen elopes sister is with my Bff she used to also breed Shih-tzu's that's how we met she wanted to use my Archie for Stud all her dogs are retired now and the are all fixed females. Sophie will be getting fixed within they next couple weeks. Anyway sorry for going on and on but it has a lesson please make sure these pup go to responsible people that will have them fixed make sure if you don't fix the pups yourself, that they are sold with a spay or neuter contract so that they don't have fifty more unwanted dogs in the shelters because of more accidents.


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## pastel

How do spay/neuter contracts work? Are owners even obliged to do it even if they sign it? Chances are you'll never see them again no?


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## ~LS~

pastel said:


> How do spay/neuter contracts work? Are owners even obliged to do it even if they sign it? Chances are you'll never see them again no?




I personally spay and neuter all of our rescued cats and dogs before they leave
my home. I still make the adopters sign contracts, but regarding other things.
Because as great as a spay/neuter contract is, it is not always foolproof.


This is why I stick by my original statement to spay and neuter the puppies
before they leave the home. That way you can be 100% sure you are putting
an end to the unfortunate cycle.


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## ~LS~

quinnandleah said:


> Okay I really didn't expect to get bombarded by the lynch mob again since I had posted in April about her being pregnant. I'm not going to have time to reply to each post but I'll try to answer everyone's questions.
> 
> This was an accident. When Leah was in heat she was either with me away
> from my other dogs as I worked for a friend babysitting. Or in a separate room from the boys when we were home. She was wearing diapers and the boys were both wearing belly bands. The tie happened when I was not home, I had bought tickets for a movie release months before Leah went into heat...anyway. The tie happened after my little brother brought her back in after taking her potty. He made the mistake of setting her down to put her leash up and she got away from him. I wasn't told about it until way after the fact so there was nothing that I could have done. And I'm sorry but I don't believe in any kind of abortion or babies human or animal.
> 
> I have had contact with a vet during her whole pregnancy and even let my cellphone and such get disconnected so that I could be sure to have money put away should an emergency arise when she had the puppies. My dogs are my life, I have them to help me manage my depression. Their needs come before mine, my stepdad yelled at me the other day because I choose between paying a bill and my dogs getting food.
> 
> On the issues of mixed breeds. I'm sure many of the breeds started off by being mixed with something once upon a time. There are mixed breeds that are well loved. One of the most popular off the top of my head are golden doodles. What helps make a breed acceptable is a really rich person making a case for them.
> 
> I'm sorry if any of my views upsets anyone and I'm sure it will make some just ignore me all together. But that is your choice.
> 
> If I haven't answered a question you had feel free to ask and I'll answer when I can.






There is no need to ignore anybody, I personally am only speaking from
experience and heart. Perhaps you will never understand my views on
the subject of backyard breeding, but I believe I should at least tell you
how I feel instead of encouraging you by telling you your pups are cute.
All pups are cute, and many mutts are very loved, there is no doubt in
my mind. There are far too many issues with your breeding, the fact that
they are mutts is a part of it, the fact that you don't do health testing is
also part of it, the fact that you are not familiar with genetics also plays 
a huge role. You are breeding pets, without any regard for health or
temperament. To me that is a big problem. 


I know it's hard to step outside of your own feelings and listen to the given
advice without feeling "bombarded", but try to think of your dogs' well being
instead of your personal feelings for just a moment. Some folks on here are
talking from experience, some of us have worked in shelters and rescues,some
have seen the horrors of backyard breeding practices, and so many of us care
a great deal about all dogs, not just our own. This is why (I believe) some
folks are speaking up and trying to convey their thoughts regarding this to
you. It all comes from a good place, so please try to take it to heart.


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## quinnandleah

missy_r said:


> Sorry but I just find that a silly excuse. Since dogs started out as mixed breeds, it is okay to breed mixed dogs? Golden doodles might be a "well loved" mixed breed, but regardless they are not a breed. It is a mixed dog that someone created and that BYB's breed. No responsible breeder would breed a mix. Reading your last post, I see that you wanted to breed your dogs because your family member wanted "a fluffy chi weenie." You are willing to put your dog through pregnancy because your family member can't just go adopt a dog from a shelter or buy a purebred dog from a responsible breeder? Sorry but I would never risk my dog's life because someone in my family wanted a puppy.
> 
> I do hope that you are going to keep those puppies until they are old enough to fix, and spay and neuter every one before you sell them. If not, then you are just contributing to the problem.


I personally don't care if you think of it as a silly excuse. It is what happened and I told the story because many asked. I love you like to just sit and berate me for what happened. They are my dogs that I love and care for and its my choice what is done with then, regardless of what you think. It's like I'm planning on running a puppy mill or something. Yes I had planned on breeding them for family. They have check shelters and haven't found a dog that fits what they would like/need for their family. And they can't buy from a responsible breeder because breeders don't breed the kind of dog they are looking for according to you. Dogs have been having puppies long before humans were involved. Just because they have been domesticated doesn't mean they are in danger if they have puppies. If everyone were to fix their dogs and no one breed animals anymore domesticated animals would all eventually die off.



pastel said:


> Very cute puppies  I'm sure you've heard enough of the criticisms from us and will take it to heart. Enjoy your pups!


Thanks you



momofmany said:


> They are very cute pups and like I said accidents can happen. I didn't mean to critisise you in anyway. I'm just concerned for the mom dog because she is so so young. And the fact that I just lost my dog due to complications. She had had 5 litters of purebred shih-tzu and I had retired her. I should have fixed her long before she got pregnent the last time but its been tough the last couple years for me. Spent 2 years recovering from septacimia when I got blood poisoning that went to my heart. My legs burnt from the inside out because of the infection and my tendons shriveled up into a big ball behind my knee so it took months and months of stretching them back out again so I could walk again. I also had a nurse come in to do the bandages on my legs because the flesh on my legs was dead and need to stay moist so that it could slowly be peeled off so it could heal my ankle on my right foot is seized in appointed possision so I have to walk on my toes because my ankle won't move to be able to put my foot flat on the ground. I know this is no excuse but I was trying to get my life back and getting my dog fixed was just not a priority at the time. My male was fixed we had a fenced yard and so it wasn't difficult to keep her from getting pregnant. Then the worst possible thing happened and she got pregnant with a Min Pin a beautiful purebred red Min pin but she was a shih_tzu and had never had anything but purebred puppy's plus she was getting up in years and I had retired her. She went through the pregnancy with no problems and had 4 pups one was still born. Three days after she was crying and walking and then laying down. I rushed her to the vet and on the way she died in my arms. There was a pup inside her that had died and caused an infection and I lost my beloved dog. I raised her puppy's and gave them to people that I new would love them and have them fixed. The owner of the Min pin took one she's a breeder of pure bred dogs she fixed Barkley as soon as he dropped she didn't want any accidents happening with her dogs. Sophie,Pen elopes sister is with my Bff she used to also breed Shih-tzu's that's how we met she wanted to use my Archie for Stud all her dogs are retired now and the are all fixed females. Sophie will be getting fixed within they next couple weeks. Anyway sorry for going on and on but it has a lesson please make sure these pup go to responsible people that will have them fixed make sure if you don't fix the pups yourself, that they are sold with a spay or neuter contract so that they don't have fifty more unwanted dogs in the shelters because of more accidents.


I understand that problems can arise. This is why I've made sure to get as much information as I can and as I've said before she has been to the vet and is being looked after. My mom has breed dogs before and knows what issues to look for. Plus we have a family friend that is a vet assistant that helps when we have any questions or concerns.



~LS~ said:


> There is no need to ignore anybody, I personally am only speaking from
> experience and heart. Perhaps you will never understand my views on
> the subject of backyard breeding, but I believe I should at least tell you
> how I feel instead of encouraging you by telling you your pups are cute.
> All pups are cute, and many mutts are very loved, there is no doubt in
> my mind. There are far too many issues with your breeding, the fact that
> they are mutts is a part of it, the fact that you don't do health testing is
> also part of it, the fact that you are not familiar with genetics also plays
> a huge role. You are breeding pets, without any regard for health or
> temperament. To me that is a big problem.
> 
> 
> I know it's hard to step outside of your own feelings and listen to the given
> advice without feeling "bombarded", but try to think of your dogs' well being
> instead of your personal feelings for just a moment. Some folks on here are
> talking from experience, some of us have worked in shelters and rescues,some
> have seen the horrors of backyard breeding practices, and so many of us care
> a great deal about all dogs, not just our own. This is why (I believe) some
> folks are speaking up and trying to convey their thoughts regarding this to
> you. It all comes from a good place, so please try to take it to heart.


I have though of my dogs well being which when I was told of what happened I have saved money and let my cellphone and other things get disconnected so that I had money for an emergency and vet visits.

I understand the experiences that others have had but assuming what I am doing or what I am going to do and berating me for it isn't the way to get me to see your way.


My dumb computer didn't include the other post but I wanted to address the issue of Golden doodles. Golden doodles are a recognized and registrable hybrid with many reputable kennel clubs.


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## ~LS~

"Berating" = Scold or criticize (someone) angrily

...this is not what I am doing imo. 


I'm am going to leave this on this note...I do not agree with your reasons
for breeding, but if you need any help regarding your newborn puppies or
have any questions, I am here to answer as best as I can from my own
experiences. I hope mom and pups will be ok, and I hope you eventually
see that my advice is not coming from an ugly place.


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## kimr

I don't think anyone's advice is coming from 'an ugly place'.

I believe it's coming from experience and the need to attempt to make the OP understand where this can go. No one will pay for this other than the pups, and possibly the mother of the pups. It's about responsibility - and I haven't heard much in that regard throughout this thread, other than from those of us who are trying to get you to at least acknowledge that you understand what we are trying to say. All I see is that your defenses are up, and you aren't getting a thing from what people are trying to tell you.

I have rescues...One is an adorable Cairn terrier / Chi mix. He wound up in a shelter scheduled to be euthanized, and would not be alive today had I not walked into the shelter two days before the scheduled euthanasia. He has traits of both breeds, but he's unpredictable because of the mix. 

Another is 3/4 Great Pyrenees and 1/4 Border Collie...He's a great dog, but not something I would have bred myself. He has a wonderful laid back personality, a trait of both those breeds. He herds everything that moves, and he's stubborn like a Great Pyrenees, but all in all, the mix works in his case. Still, it never should have happened...I will take care of him for the rest of his life, but it could have gone much differently for him.

The dachsund / Chi mix can be quite stubborn and hard to train. It's just common personality traits of the two breeds. Not everyone (whether they think they are cute or not) is cut out for working with these mixes to turn them into the pets they thought they would have when eyeing an adorable pup. 

You can't control where these pups wind up down the road, or what is done with them. That is the point everyone is trying to make. It will be out of your control once they leave your hands, unless they are spayed and neutered first, and I don't see that happening. 

But try to step back from the situation and listen to what everyone is saying, rather than being so defensive. I think you might come to see things differently down the road. This "accident' was so easy to prevent, and you failed. How could you have done things differently?


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## theshanman97

i am going to come back in on this LOL yes tillie IS a mix , i love her! i never wanted a mix but i saw her and that was it! i didnt fall in love with her for her "Looks" it was purely her lovingness and personality!

I personally dont know the risks of mix breeding ect. as where i live we have ALOT of vross breeders who are lovely people and breed PURELY to give people happiness! you would be VERY supriced HOW little we are told in cornwall! let alone the bottlom of cornwall! 

Its V bad! i didnt know about illnesses of mix breeding ect. as we quick simply dont know! people SERIOUSLY think tillie is a "Opps" litter or her breeder was in for the money , this is simply NOT true! shes a v kind lady , bred lapsoadsos for GOD knows how many years and she loves breeding dogs! you can tell and geniuin person from a fake! a fake will either seem emotionless or OVER emotional when the puppy/ies leave! tillies breeder had a little tier in her eye and was holding them back! , so its quiet simply the lake of knowledge down here! we are SERIOUSLY cut off! no other part of the UK is! JUST us! 

Ive spoken to vets about tillie and they said "We love cross breeds! " and "Her breeder sounds brilliant!" ect.! so its not ALWAYS bad breeders!


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## pastel

what cross is tillie? 
it just seems like the shelter is never ending overflowing with cross breeds...
that said, I thought dachshund/chi was a popular miss *shrug*

Anyway, it just feels like everyone is repeating what was previously said to the original poster about how irresponsible she was, etc.. etc.. and I'm sure she already feels badly enough for the oopsies. I know everyone here is VERY passionate about their pets and get overly emotional when someone does things they shouldn't have... I'm sure a couple of months ago, she was grilled for letting this happen, and everything that needed to be said was said then...

In respect to spaying/neutering, sometimes it's hard to find the right breeder, and some people may not want a shelter dog for various reasons. A lot of them have social issues and a long waiting list... Just because you yourself would never breed your dogs doesn't mean no one can breed theirs (as long as they take steps to ensure they are going to good homes)


----------



## 20887

quinnandleah said:


> IDogs have been having puppies long before humans were involved. Just because they have been domesticated doesn't mean they are in danger if they have puppies. If everyone were to fix their dogs and no one breed animals anymore domesticated animals would all eventually die off.


Yes domesticated animals would die off, but does that look like what is happening? Thousands of dogs are dying in shelters from people breeding their dogs because they think they are cute, or for whatever reason. Responsible breeders who spend thousands of dollars on health testing, and proving their dogs in the show ring are the people who deserve comments like "cute puppies!" or "congrats!" Even when they do all that health testing, things can still go wrong. Puppies and mothers die from complications. Just because dogs had puppies in the wild doesn't mean nothing can go wrong. 

And yes, Goldendoodles are registrable with the CKC and other scam registries. AKC will NOT register a "goldendoodle" as a breed.


I just hope you consider spaying your dog since you now have a puppy to give to your family member.


----------



## OzChi

> How do spay/neuter contracts work? Are owners even obliged to do it even if they sign it? Chances are you'll never see them again no?


I'm not going to get into the debate on this thread (I have 3 pedigree registered Chi's and the 2 that are over 10 weeks old are spayed and neutered so you probably know where I stand) but I do know about the spay and neuter contracts. The breeder of my first 2 dogs gave me $50 back per dog upon proof of desexing so that is a way to ensure compliance with spay and neuter contracts. The breeder of my third has had me sign an actual contract that is lodged with her city council that registers the dog to me and cites that it's on the condition that the dog not be bred from or compete in conformation shows.


----------



## pastel

Ozchi, thanks for the info


----------



## theshanman97

pastel said:


> what cross is tillie?
> it just seems like the shelter is never ending overflowing with cross breeds...
> that said, I thought dachshund/chi was a popular miss *shrug*
> 
> Anyway, it just feels like everyone is repeating what was previously said to the original poster about how irresponsible she was, etc.. etc.. and I'm sure she already feels badly enough for the oopsies. I know everyone here is VERY passionate about their pets and get overly emotional when someone does things they shouldn't have... I'm sure a couple of months ago, she was grilled for letting this happen, and everything that needed to be said was said then...
> 
> In respect to spaying/neutering, sometimes it's hard to find the right breeder, and some people may not want a shelter dog for various reasons. A lot of them have social issues and a long waiting list... Just because you yourself would never breed your dogs doesn't mean no one can breed theirs (as long as they take steps to ensure they are going to good homes)


shes a chi X yorkie X jack russell  and i was thinking about re homing BUT here most are big dogs and we just cant have another big dog! lol 

Yes ive heard thats what rehoming centres are like! , but most the ones here are actually pure bred big dogs! i guess its different everywhere  x


----------



## Wicked Pixie

It is very different in the UK regarding small breed crosses. Anything tiny has a value, cross-breeds can sell for almost as much money as purebreds and you very rarely find anything small that isn't a JRT in a shelter, they are snapped up. The chances of finding a pure Chi in a shelter is very small. We have breed rescues through the KC which are amazing, we got Penny via Whippet rescue. We were on their waiting list for about 3 and a half years! So any Chihuahuas would be passed to Chihuahua rescue and go to an already vetted person on the waiting list. 
It saddens me that so many Chi's and Chi mixes get euthanized in the states, and that mixes have so little value (and I don't mean monetarily.)


----------



## KittyD

Wicked Pixie said:


> Anything tiny has a value, cross-breeds can sell for almost as much money as purebreds and you very rarely find anything small that isn't a JRT in a shelter, they are snapped up. The chances of finding a pure Chi in a shelter is very small. We have breed rescues through the KC which are amazing, we got Penny via Whippet rescue. We were on their waiting list for about 3 and a half years! So any Chihuahuas would be passed to Chihuahua rescue and go to an already vetted person on the waiting list.
> It saddens me that so many Chi's and Chi mixes get euthanized in the states, and that mixes have so little value (and I don't mean monetarily.)


Funny this comment mirrors Canada where Chihuahuas are concerned.


----------



## AussieLass

Ditto the situation in Australia re rescues, small breeds etc - it's the same as UK.

I wasn't going to say anything in this thread, but damn it, I am. 

There are those of us who believe, and have had extensive personal experience, that finely, line-bred purebred (read inbred - grandfather mates grand-daughter, sister mates brother etc etc) can be a nightmare of hugely expensive health issues. 

I've outlayed many, many $k's over the years for health problems and, guess what, they were all the so-called "finest show stock in the country" - pure & utter BS, they were a seething mass of health problems due to the tragic lack of genes available in the pool. Outcrossing can and does, to a huge extent, often do away with such problems. 

Take pugs for example - 50k of them in UK, all going back to 10? dogs. Oh yeah, that's not going to be fraught with problems, much!

*People who blindly proclaim purebreds are the only ones that can be relied upon for good health bla bla bla (funny that, they'll mostly be breeders with a vested financial interest) & that cross breeds do not enjoy the same level of health, temperament etc. ought to sit themselves down & watch the UK Documentary (featuring their crooked (imo) kennel club & the things their committee members get up to) it's called Purebreds Exposed or Truth About Purebreds or something similar = OMG what an eye opener that is, it'll really sit you back on you a$$. Make sure you have lots of tissues handy when watching the segment about the ruby/white King Charles S's, omg that is soooooooooo unbelievably sad and their Assoc. behaviour, actions, denials etc. are downright criminal - pompous old cows should be horsewhipped imo*.

How many $'s have I ever shelled out for my cross-breds over 40+ years? Except for their shots & desexing, ZERO, nada, nil, zilch, zip. And, no, I've not just been lucky, just so many breeders and ignorant people are in damn denial! Ask any Vet worth their salt, they'll tell you the TRUTH! My Professor would happily scream it from the rooftops if he could.

NB: I'm not arguing how many mutts/mongrels/bitsa's end up in pounds/rescues, blind freddy can see that - I'm simply talking about the health issues, BESIDES those of a dam being way too young of course, that is a major no-no in my book.


----------



## AussieLass

Here you go ladies, set aside an hour or so, get yourself a drink, relax and watch this - bet you shed more than a couple of tears of sadness and anger .... Shannon this will give you a MUCH better understanding of how purebred genes work and what happens when there's not enough distances put between "relatives" or dogs that are way, way too close in that their pedigrees are almost mirror images of each other regardless of who the breeder was in any given country ...

Google *THIS IS THE CORRECT LINK, the other one that was here before is only Pt 1, this is the entire documentary folks.*

Makes me soooooooo damn mad when purebred breeders refuse to look outside their own little bubble of reality and cannot or will not accept science because it will jeopardise their income? I can't think of any other reason for their continuing ignorance!!!!


----------



## theshanman97

AussieLass said:


> Ditto the situation in Australia re rescues, small breeds etc - it's the same as UK.
> 
> I wasn't going to say anything in this thread, but damn it, I am.
> 
> There are those of us who believe, and have had extensive personal experience, that finely, line-bred purebred (read inbred - grandfather mates grand-daughter, sister mates brother etc etc) can be a nightmare of hugely expensive health issues.
> 
> I've outlayed many, many $k's over the years for health problems and, guess what, they were all the so-called "finest show stock in the country" - pure & utter BS, they were a seething mass of health problems due to the tragic lack of genes available in the pool. Outcrossing can and does, to a huge extent, often do away with such problems.
> 
> Take pugs for example - 50k of them in UK, all going back to 10? dogs. Oh yeah, that's not going to be fraught with problems, much!
> 
> *People who blindly proclaim purebreds are the only ones that can be relied upon for good health bla bla bla (funny that, they'll mostly be breeders with a vested financial interest) & that cross breeds do not enjoy the same level of health, temperament etc. ought to sit themselves down & watch the UK Documentary (featuring their crooked (imo) kennel club & the things their committee members get up to) it's called Purebreds Exposed or Truth About Purebreds or something similar = OMG what an eye opener that is, it'll really sit you back on you a$$. Make sure you have lots of tissues handy when watching the segment about the ruby/white King Charles S's, omg that is soooooooooo unbelievably sad and their Assoc. behaviour, actions, denials etc. are downright criminal - pompous old cows should be horsewhipped imo*.
> 
> How many $'s have I ever shelled out for my cross-breds over 40+ years? Except for their shots & desexing, ZERO, nada, nil, zilch, zip. And, no, I've not just been lucky, just so many breeders and ignorant people are in damn denial! Ask any Vet worth their salt, they'll tell you the TRUTH! My Professor would happily scream it from the rooftops if he could.
> 
> NB: I'm not arguing how many mutts/mongrels/bitsa's end up in pounds/rescues, blind freddy can see that - I'm simply talking about the health issues, BESIDES those of a dam being way too young of course, that is a major no-no in my book.



THANK YOU! LOL! you have NO idea how many comments ive seen about crosses here and personally about tillie in life! ive been told that im sick and that "Apprently" i must like designer dogs! :O WTF!? ive also been accused of getting her for looks  no dening shes stunning! but i love her for her !  x


----------



## AussieLass

theshanman97 said:


> THANK YOU! LOL! you have NO idea how many comments ive seen about crosses here and personally about tillie in life! ive been told that im sick and that "Apprently" i must like designer dogs! :O WTF!? ive also been accused of getting her for looks  no dening shes stunning! but i love her for her !  x


Smiles, now watch the videos Shannon, if they don't convince you mutts can be a whole lot healthier with less congenital problems, then nothing will!!! Those Brits oughta be ashamed of themselves and their cover-ups (wink).

Doesn't mean that far, far too many of them don't end up being euthanised because no-one wants them though. Of course people want them, tragically, just not as many as there are dogs. My gorgeous girlfriend of 35 years always goes to the pound & chooses the ugliest darn dogs she can find, 'coz she knows no-one else will want them, she's saved dozens over the years, they're all wonderful & healthy .... she's a multi-millionairess who could buy any number of imported, expensive pedigrees but perish the thought for her, not interested. She only ever owned 1 pedigree & that was an Afghan Hound rescue, bless her.


----------



## theshanman97

AussieLass said:


> Smiles, now watch the videos Shannon, if they don't convince you mutts can be a whole lot healthier with less congenital problems, then nothing will!!! Those Brits oughta be ashamed of themselves and their cover-ups (wink).
> 
> Doesn't mean that far, far too many of them don't end up being euthanised because no-one wants them though. Of course people want them, tragically, just not as many as there are dogs. My gorgeous girlfriend of 35 years always goes to the pound & chooses the ugliest darn dogs she can find, 'coz she knows no-one else will want them, she's saved dozens over the years, they're all wonderful & healthy .... she's a multi-millionairess who could buy any number of imported, expensive pedigrees but perish the thought for her, not interested. She only ever owned 1 pedigree & that was an Afghan Hound rescue, bless her.


im going to tonight with my mum!  and she sounds amazing! i think people who do that are amazing! its not ALL about looks , i think im just lucky i got tillie who is amazing inside and out! lol x


----------



## Huly

Ok I am not going to post about the situation itself with the pups but I am going to post as the Director of Adoptions for Basset Hound Rescue. 

I have had multiple mixes and purebreds in my life and I love them all! I am not breed specific in any way and for most of my life I have hated breeders due to my rescue work and being a Vet Tech as a teenager. I am learning to like responsible breeders. The guy that gave me my two chis is still a little disappointed I spayed BG but I gave him the option with Sonny and he gave me the go ahead to Neuter him as he is too big and his snout is too large so he is scheduled for June 14th. 

As the Director of Adoptions- 
We have seen multiple issues with breeding. My Gibbs is what we consider a poorly bred Basset. His ears are too short and he might be an in breed situation as his feet are twisted. As he ages he most likely will have orthopedic issues. There are way too many people who get a Basset Hound as a pup and do not realize that can be a pain in the rear. They are beyond stubborn, their howl can be ear piercing, and they are scent hounds so any scent at all they are gone! Also they can have health issues, ear infections, major orthopedic issues with their short stubby legs if over weight etc etc. We save hundreds of homeless hounds every year but since there are so many abandoned pur breds we do not have the time money or space to help mixes. The most common is what people call a bagel (Basset Beagle mix) and they end up dying in shelters every year. It sucks! No one wants a mix, no one wants a senior, no one wants a special needs hound. 

We had an abandoned pregnant (about ready to pop) mom last year who was left on the side of a road. We were not 100% sure if the pups would be pure Basset but lucky for us they were. She had 8 pups. It is rare for us to get pure bred pups in so instead of just our regular procedures (application, house visit, vet check, approval/ denial) I called each potential owner and asked all the hard questions. These pups went to homes only that was approved by both me and our VP. These pups owners had to sign an additional contract stating they were required to send me proof of spay neuter by 8 months old or we would confiscate the hound. All 8 new owners did and I called each vet to verify it was completed. 

As a Vet Tech- 
I left the Vet field due to ignorant people! Breeders would come in with adorable puppies or kittens and want us to euthanize them as they were not perfect in their eyes. Lucky for me my Vet would not do this but charge them the fee and rehome the babies. We lost pets due to ignorance in breeding be it in bred not proper pregnancy care, breeding too large of a male with too small of a female. The list just keeps going. I can tell you horror stories!


----------



## sugarbaby

AussieLass said:


> Here you go ladies, set aside an hour or so, get yourself a drink, relax and watch this - bet you shed more than a couple of tears of sadness and anger .... Shannon this will give you a MUCH better understanding of how purebred genes work and what happens when there's not enough distances put between "relatives" or dogs that are way, way too close in that their pedigrees are almost mirror images of each other regardless of who the breeder was in any given country ...
> 
> Pedigree Dogs Exposed | Watch Free Documentary Online
> 
> Makes me soooooooo damn mad when purebred breeders refuse to look outside their own little bubble of reality and cannot or will not accept science because it will jeopardise their income? I can't think of any other reason for their continuing ignorance!!!!


i watched this about a yr ago , made me cry  , some breeds just shouldnt be bred .


----------



## michele

Unfortunataly chihuahuas are carrying the gene now,top breeders are all having their dogs screened and they're finding it in loads of chihuahuas


----------



## pastel

michele said:


> Unfortunataly chihuahuas are carrying the gene now,top breeders are all having their dogs screened and they're finding it in loads of chihuahuas


That makes me sad, but I can't say I'm too surprised since chihuahuas are bred for their unusually shaped big head


----------



## ~LS~

Girls, I'm not disagreeing that there are some not so great registered breeders out
there. Nothing is black or white. Yes some get preoccupied with looks and
neglect the long term health effects. This is why I precise all the time that 
a good breeder in my books is the one who breeds for HEALTH and TEMPERAMENT.
It wasn't the case here, yes it was an oops this time, but what about the
future plans? I don't agree with it, so I speak my mind, it's simple. I have seen
the suffering that backyard breeding can brings therefore I will never support
it. I don't understand why it's so hard to take the right steps to ensure the
breeding stock and pups are healthy not just today but in the long run, for
those serious about breeding this should be obvious imo. Why cut corners? If
you are a breeder your goal should be to help the breed, no? To ensure it
thrives. Breeding mutts without any consideration for temperament will give
unpredictable results. My boys are the result of neglectful breeding practices,
they have been paying the price with their health since they were pups. And
as for mixes, yes I have encountered mutts that luckily turned out healthy,
thank goodness it happens, but why take the risks when you are uneducated
on health and genetics? I just don't understand.


----------



## Kayota

Interesting video yes but so so biased... They only show the WORST of the worst to make John Q Public hate all breeders and purebreds... Propaganda is what I call it.


----------



## LittleGemma

Wicked Pixie said:


> It is very different in the UK regarding small breed crosses. Anything tiny has a value, cross-breeds can sell for almost as much money as purebreds and you very rarely find anything small that isn't a JRT in a shelter, they are snapped up. The chances of finding a pure Chi in a shelter is very small. We have breed rescues through the KC which are amazing, we got Penny via Whippet rescue. We were on their waiting list for about 3 and a half years! So any Chihuahuas would be passed to Chihuahua rescue and go to an already vetted person on the waiting list.
> It saddens me that so many Chi's and Chi mixes get euthanized in the states, and that mixes have so little value (and I don't mean monetarily.)


It's the same way here in Sweden. You would never find a purebred Chi in a shelter. There are ads for tiny mixed puppies posted for sale every single day and they start around $600 and up. They all sell quickly. Purebred Chis start at $1200 and up. Usually $2000 and over if you want a pedigree registered Chi. Gemma is not pedigree registered because her father lacked papers, but I'm okay with that. I simply could not afford a pedigree Chihuahua in Sweden. Gemma had the look I wanted and I felt comfortable with her breeder, so I went for it. I couldn't be happier with her.

There are plenty of pedigree registered breeders who are no good as well. There are also non-pedigree registered breeders that are really great and responsible. I personally would not breed a Chi without papers, but I'm not against buying one without them. However, inbreeding, over-breeding, and breeding genetically unhealthy dogs is never okay, pedigree or not. That's where I stand. If you're going to breed, you need to have serious knowledge of what you're doing, for the sake of your dog's health and the puppies.

It is unfortunate with the situation in the U.S and the amount of mutts and even purebreds that are euthanized daily. There are hardly even any rescue shelters around here because dogs simply don't seem to be treated that way.


----------



## Huly

LittleGemma said:


> It's the same way here in Sweden. You would never find a purebred Chi in a shelter. There are ads for tiny mixed puppies posted for sale every single day and they start around $600 and up. They all sell quickly. Purebred Chis start at $1200 and up. Usually $2000 and over if you want a pedigree registered Chi. Gemma is not pedigree registered because her father lacked papers, but I'm okay with that. I simply could not afford a pedigree Chihuahua in Sweden. Gemma had the look I wanted and I felt comfortable with her breeder, so I went for it. I couldn't be happier with her.
> 
> There are plenty of pedigree registered breeders who are no good as well. There are also non-pedigree registered breeders that are really great and responsible. I personally would not breed a Chi without papers, but I'm not against buying one without them. However, inbreeding, over-breeding, and breeding genetically unhealthy dogs is never okay, pedigree or not. That's where I stand. If you're going to breed, you need to have serious knowledge of what you're doing, for the sake of your dog's health and the puppies.
> 
> It is unfortunate with the situation in the U.S and the amount of mutts and even purebreds that are euthanized daily. There are hardly even any rescue shelters around here because dogs simply don't seem to be treated that way.


According to Pet adoption: Want a dog or cat? Adopt a pet on Petfinder that pulls up rescues and shelter pets in the US for adoption there are currently 17,064 chi or chi mixess up for adoption. The only two breeds that beat the chi for homeless pets is the lab and pitt bull.


----------



## LittleGemma

Huly said:


> According to Pet adoption: Want a dog or cat? Adopt a pet on Petfinder that pulls up rescues and shelter pets in the US for adoption there are currently 17,064 chi or chi mixess up for adoption. The only two breeds that beat the chi for homeless pets is the lab and pitt bull.


That's insane and very sad. Breeding mutts in the US is definitely a different situation than it is in other countries.


----------



## quinnandleah

~LS~ said:


> Girls, I'm not disagreeing that there are some not so great registered breeders out
> there. Nothing is black or white. Yes some get preoccupied with looks and
> neglect the long term health effects. This is why I precise all the time that
> a good breeder in my books is the one who breeds for HEALTH and TEMPERAMENT.
> It wasn't the case here, yes it was an oops this time, but what about the
> future plans? I don't agree with it, so I speak my mind, it's simple. I have seen
> the suffering that backyard breeding can brings therefore I will never support
> it. I don't understand why it's so hard to take the right steps to ensure the
> breeding stock and pups are healthy not just today but in the long run, for
> those serious about breeding this should be obvious imo. Why cut corners? If
> you are a breeder your goal should be to help the breed, no? To ensure it
> thrives. Breeding mutts without any consideration for temperament will give
> unpredictable results. My boys are the result of neglectful breeding practices,
> they have been paying the price with their health since they were pups. And
> as for mixes, yes I have encountered mutts that luckily turned out healthy,
> thank goodness it happens, but why take the risks when you are uneducated
> on health and genetics? I just don't understand.


I did take into consideration of the temperament and health of my dogs when I bought them. They all weren't just oh look another one lets get it. With Quinn I personally know and have taken care of him mom and dad. I spent a few afternoons with Leah's mom and dad before getting her as well. I'm not as ignorant or irresponsible as you guys think I am. I have done my research on the mix breed as well as talking to many people (numerous vets included). I know Leah shouldn't have had them at her age but once it had happened while I wasn't home there was nothing to do but give her the best while she was pregnant and to give her and the puppies the best now.


----------



## KittyD

AussieLass said:


> Ditto the situation in Australia re rescues, small breeds etc - it's the same as UK.
> 
> I wasn't going to say anything in this thread, but damn it, I am.
> 
> There are those of us who believe, and have had extensive personal experience, that finely, line-bred purebred (read inbred - grandfather mates grand-daughter, sister mates brother etc etc) can be a nightmare of hugely expensive health issues.
> 
> I've outlayed many, many $k's over the years for health problems and, guess what, they were all the so-called "finest show stock in the country" - pure & utter BS, they were a seething mass of health problems due to the tragic lack of genes available in the pool. Outcrossing can and does, to a huge extent, often do away with such problems.
> 
> Take pugs for example - 50k of them in UK, all going back to 10? dogs. Oh yeah, that's not going to be fraught with problems, much!
> 
> *People who blindly proclaim purebreds are the only ones that can be relied upon for good health bla bla bla (funny that, they'll mostly be breeders with a vested financial interest) & that cross breeds do not enjoy the same level of health, temperament etc. ought to sit themselves down & watch the UK Documentary (featuring their crooked (imo) kennel club & the things their committee members get up to) it's called Purebreds Exposed or Truth About Purebreds or something similar = OMG what an eye opener that is, it'll really sit you back on you a$$. Make sure you have lots of tissues handy when watching the segment about the ruby/white King Charles S's, omg that is soooooooooo unbelievably sad and their Assoc. behaviour, actions, denials etc. are downright criminal - pompous old cows should be horsewhipped imo*.
> 
> How many $'s have I ever shelled out for my cross-breds over 40+ years? Except for their shots & desexing, ZERO, nada, nil, zilch, zip. And, no, I've not just been lucky, just so many breeders and ignorant people are in damn denial! Ask any Vet worth their salt, they'll tell you the TRUTH! My Professor would happily scream it from the rooftops if he could.
> 
> NB: I'm not arguing how many mutts/mongrels/bitsa's end up in pounds/rescues, blind freddy can see that - I'm simply talking about the health issues, BESIDES those of a dam being way too young of course, that is a major no-no in my book.


Could not agree with you more.
I've watched my mother go through hell with her show dogs.
2 of them have died from something genetic related to their liver, and get this one of the breeders is a VET LMAO!



AussieLass said:


> Here you go ladies, set aside an hour or so, get yourself a drink, relax and watch this - bet you shed more than a couple of tears of sadness and anger .... Shannon this will give you a MUCH better understanding of how purebred genes work and what happens when there's not enough distances put between "relatives" or dogs that are way, way too close in that their pedigrees are almost mirror images of each other regardless of who the breeder was in any given country ...
> 
> Pedigree Dogs Exposed | Watch Free Documentary Online
> 
> Makes me soooooooo damn mad when purebred breeders refuse to look outside their own little bubble of reality and cannot or will not accept science because it will jeopardise their income? I can't think of any other reason for their continuing ignorance!!!!


So sad  



michele said:


> Unfortunataly chihuahuas are carrying the gene now,top breeders are all having their dogs screened and they're finding it in loads of chihuahuas


Yes I heard about that, apparently its a big scandal in the UK right now my girlfriend was telling me.. apparently the show dogs are all so closely related it's suspected most of the lines are affected. Sad 
I wonder what that will mean for our dogs in North America.


----------



## flippedstars

AussieLass said:


> Makes me soooooooo damn mad when purebred breeders refuse to look outside their own little bubble of reality and cannot or will not accept science because it will jeopardise their income? I can't think of any other reason for their continuing ignorance!!!!



Income. Haha. That's funny.


----------



## carrieandcricket

AussieLass said:


> Here you go ladies, set aside an hour or so, get yourself a drink, relax and watch this - bet you shed more than a couple of tears of sadness and anger .... Shannon this will give you a MUCH better understanding of how purebred genes work and what happens when there's not enough distances put between "relatives" or dogs that are way, way too close in that their pedigrees are almost mirror images of each other regardless of who the breeder was in any given country ...
> 
> Pedigree Dogs Exposed | Watch Free Documentary Online
> 
> Makes me soooooooo damn mad when purebred breeders refuse to look outside their own little bubble of reality and cannot or will not accept science because it will jeopardise their income? I can't think of any other reason for their continuing ignorance!!!!


I couldn't watch it. After the first video the rest were private, and when I logged in it still wouldn't let me watch.


----------



## OzChi

At least with an ethical, registered breeder you know what you're getting in for. Lots of pedigree breeders are dodgy as but if you educate yourself on what to look for you can make an informed decision. The breeder of my new puppy has the pedigree of her show/breeding stock displayed on her website so I know there is minimal line breeding with this puppy (there is a dog 3 generations back on the mothers side that is 4 generations back on the fathers side) so I know what i'm getting. Chloe is what I would call in-bred, her sire is her mother's sire (the breeder did this to get the chocolate coat colouring) and she is my least to standard dog (although she is cute as a button and endearing because of her impwerfections) . I didn't find this out until her papers were sent to me 2 months after I got her so I was already in love with her and wouldn't give her back for the world. But i've learnt from the experience and have gone for a better breeder this time around who is proud to display the pedigree of her dogs. It's buyer beware really but if you have a dog who's genetic history is recorded and you scrutinize and question it you are more likely to end up with a sound dog than by buying from a backyard breeder. Buying pedigree is not a guarantee of soundness by a long mile, it's just the first hurdle to cross in trying to do so.

Also I know it's your personal experience Dee that you've had no health issues with your cross breeds but my poor little JRTxChi (who was an oops litter from a neighbour who was A VET!!!) had so many problems, LP being only one of them, and we spent a fortune on having her knees reconstructed. My farm bred JRT had epilepsy too. I just hope the backyard bred maltipoo my mum bought when I offered to help find her a good poodle breeder doesn't end up having issues.


----------



## AussieLass

carrieandcricket said:


> I couldn't watch it. After the first video the rest were private, and when I logged in it still wouldn't let me watch.


Sorry, here you go, this one goes for 58 mins - Google


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## AussieLass

Kayota said:


> Interesting video yes but so so biased... They only show the WORST of the worst to make John Q Public hate all breeders and purebreds... Propaganda is what I call it.


Woah, Woah, Woah Kayota, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, of course, but can you please cite example/s of a SINGLE SOLITARY THING in that documentary that is untrue, exaggerated or BS????? 

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you will find a single thing that is incorrect or misleading, therefore, how in god's name could it possibly be called "propaganda"???????????


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## Yoshismom

Closing thread per original posters request.


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