# disadvantages of NOT neutering?



## pigeonsheep (Nov 8, 2008)

I know the foremost is unexpected litter and overpopulation but i was wondering if there were health hazards if dogs dont get neutered? i know with cats they can still stay healthy but i wasn't sure about dogs. me and the bf really dont want dexter to get neutered, we saw a youtube vid on it today too yikes! :| i dont mind the marking or leg lifting...i just care about his health in the long run :coolwink: we were even thinking of breeding him later on and making mini dexters...the thought makes me go aw cute furry chis~~ thanks


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## guest185 (Oct 27, 2008)

oooooo, I'd travel for miles and move home for a mini Dexter!!

I think it prevents testicular cancer in later life which is high in dogs - but i'm only going off what my vet says. 

I'm sure there are other benefits as well, but i'm just hoping for a bit of "mellowing out" xxx


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## Chico's Mum (Sep 9, 2008)

I also read to prevents testicular cancer. And I will add to prevents aggressive behavior when his older. 
My brothers dog is 8 now and he has not been neutered and we notice his aggressive behaviors for years now. 

To me I'm not worried about Chico looking for a female dog in heat since we don't have female dogs anywhere around. 
But I also don't like the idea of giving chico for days to a breeder just so Chico would mate with who ever female dog she/he has. 
And I'm planing one day to get a female Chi so it would be better for chico to get him neutered now. Since I don't plan on breeding them if/when I get her. (I wont risk losing her or the babies)


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## barefoot (Sep 24, 2008)

I think un-neutered males are stinky as they get older. Their urine reeks. I think they are easier to train neutered. The dog whisperer says that all un-neutered males think about is finding females. Thats where the aggression and frustration comes from.


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## pinkglitterybunny (Jul 26, 2008)

lol ^^^ thats true, just like human boys lol. and if hes not neutered and he gets out and can smell a girl in heat he will run off to get to her, im scared of that!

Im getting our cat done because they dont stray far from home if they are as they are not trying to find a female  x


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## Keeffer (Feb 26, 2008)

if a dog gets neutered too early he will grow too much and too long. The bones get weaker then. They can get hip dysplasia or other problems with their joints. 

When they're neutered they dont have the chance of testicle cancer, but the chance they get bone cancer is much higher. Also the chance of tumores in their heart is bigger in neutered dogs.

If you want to get your dog neutered than I would wait untill he's an adult. Don't neuter them to soon. And why would you let the vet cut in a healthy dog???

I never had any problems with dogs that weren't neutered. Here in Holland we don't have many neuterd dogs. I think the only 'disadvantage' of not neutering is marking and going after the ladies.


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## lgahr (Dec 16, 2008)

Question for Keefer.....if you do not neuter frequently what do you do about
over population, unplanned breeding, indiscriminate breeding and all those other problems so overwhelming here in the US?

Most everyone--at least everyone I know has a minimum of 1 dog.....and usually two. Do you have lots of canines in your country? 

Thanks.....


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## Keeffer (Feb 26, 2008)

lgahr said:


> Question for Keefer.....if you do not neuter frequently what do you do about
> over population, unplanned breeding, indiscriminate breeding and all those other problems so overwhelming here in the US?
> 
> Most everyone--at least everyone I know has a minimum of 1 dog.....and usually two. Do you have lots of canines in your country?
> ...


We have lots of canines. But we don't have over population. My mom has a dutch sheperd female. She isn't spayed and keeffie isnt neutered. We dont have problems when she is in heat, just keep the two sepearated (really, that isnt that hard!). I know lots of people with intact males and females, and all goes well. When the dutch sheperd is in heat and Keeffer goes to her I just say 'NO, come back!' and voila.  That also works with other females that are in heat.


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## Chico's Mum (Sep 9, 2008)

*Keeffer* 
*"if a dog gets neutered too early he will grow too much and too long. The bones get weaker then. They can get hip dysplasia or other problems with their joints."*
_When is to early? do you mean like 6 month._

*"When they're neutered they dont have the chance of testicle cancer, but the chance they get bone cancer is much higher. Also the chance of tumores in their heart is bigger in neutered dogs."*
_Why is the chance higher and bigger for neutered dogs_


Sorry for asking so many questions but I'm planning to get Chico neutered this month or the next. So I want to know everything about it before it's to late. 
Thanks in advance.


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## lgahr (Dec 16, 2008)

For Keeffer, one more question, please...

Forgive me for badgering you with questions...I just find this extremely interesting.

Do you confine your dogs unless they have adult human supervision at all times? Your remedy sounds quite simple but I wonder if here we tend to allow too much freedom. Not everyone, of course, especially not us with extremely small dogs, but even in the small town that I live near you constantly see dogs unattended in the streets--do you have that issue in your country? Living in the rural part of Ohio we often have unwanted puppies and kittens dumped along quiet roads. Now that coyotes have moved into the area I rarely see them lately, but I wonder how many have become helpless meals for feral dogs and coyotes. We have laws to govern this but these laws are hard to enforce and rarely acted on. So, I am just fascinated by your LACK of over-population and wondering if we could learn from you. Thanks for reading my post.


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## pinkglitterybunny (Jul 26, 2008)

Woah Keeffer! i wish i had the knack you have for your little one around girls in heat! mine went absolutely MENTAL it was like having a different dog! they even escaped the crate i put them in lol! id never go through that again which is why im getting everyone in this house snipped and clipped lol x


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## lgahr (Dec 16, 2008)

You know n ow that I think of this, I had an English bred welsh corgi years ago. She was an extremely calm, easy going, very companionable dog. Maybe breeding has something to do with it?
I am finding my little Lola quite hyper -- but I also read that chihuahuas are high energy. I don't ever allow anyone, livestock, canine, or grandchildren to be left without immediate supervision but I do wonder what part breeding may play in this.
I am also amazed at being able to call back a stimulated male with a simple:
No, come back.....I want to learn how to do that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Brenda (Jul 28, 2008)

You can find pro and cons to both sides.
ndrc.tripod.com/tonuter.htm web site say's...
You should spay or neuter a pet at 6 months of age, before the pet reaches sexual maturity. This is especially important for female dogs, because the likelihood of developing mammary (breast) cancer later on increases once a dog has gone through heat. The incidence increases greatly with each additional heat cycle. 
You also eliminates the chance of pyometra (an infected uterus) 
neutering your pet definitely increases his or her chances of living a longer and healthier life.
Most of what I have read say's Neuter or spay your dog.
From my own experience, my 9 year old JRT who has not been spayed she is much more growly and temperamental at certain times but has no other behavior difference. 
I will always have male's neutered do to the marking.


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## Chico's Mum (Sep 9, 2008)

First I'm glad your back *Brenda*  
And thinks for the link I will look at it now.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 28, 2008)

I think for male dogs people get them neutered for behaviour issues rather than health. The health benefits are negligable but it can have a huge effect on bad behaviour, Adam got the snip at 6months as he decide lifting his leg on furniture and people was allowed!!.(when they say neutering too young causes bone problems and over growth I think they mean before a puppy is fully developed, like when shelters neuter at 2-3 months, at 6 months most chi's have a well develpoed skeletal structure)
Although growing up I had a border collie that was never neutered and he never marked, strayed or showed interest in females in heat.


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## Chico's Mum (Sep 9, 2008)

Ow she meant 2 to 3 month. I thought she might be talking about 6 month because she said it's better when there adult. And since they all say from articles and the vets it's better to neuter at 6 month old.


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## Pinkchi (Nov 21, 2008)

I work at a kennels and tbh behaviour wise there doesn't seem to be much difference. I think its just down to individual personality as i can never tell who has balls and who hasn't based on behaviour lol 

I have to admit if it was my dog i woul neuter but i'm not 100% sure on my reasons why other than it seems like a good idea and possibly healthier.


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## Brenda (Jul 28, 2008)

Thanks Chico's Mum


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## Brenda (Jul 28, 2008)

Chico's Mum said:


> First I'm glad your back *Brenda*
> And thinks for the link I will look at it now.


Thank you


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## Keeffer (Feb 26, 2008)

I'll try to give some answers. 

First of all, I said adult and I really mean ADULT. They need to be FULL GROWN. Also mentally they need to be full grown. When you neuter a dog you mess up their hormones. A 6 month old is still a baby, because you mess up the hormones they'll grow longer and have more risk of getting bone cancer as well as tumores. You don't spay a 5 year old girl too, why would you spay or neuter a 6 month old DOG? Just because it's a dog? If you want to spay or neuter your dog, please wait untill he or she is full grown. The spaying at 6 months thing is a mythe that was first introduced in America. Also the narcosis isn't good for a dog, let alone such a young one. Their organes suffer from narcosis, thats why they shouldn't go under narcosis too often.

Lol I was quite amazed when he did came back the first time I called him. But he just listens very well. He comes running to me hehe. You should just try it.


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## pigeonsheep (Nov 8, 2008)

wow* keeffer* you sure do know a lot about this subject. so they can get more health hazards when neutered...this is nuts. why doesn't the vet warn us owners about that then? 
*pinkchi* that was funny! hehe how's it like working in a kennel?  besides the poo smells ^^
this thread got a lot of replies! one last question...
when the males reach the peak do they bark like crazy and run around to get out of the house to find a female too? o_o

oh and *jacklovesmammy* i'll be sure to tell you if we have mini dexters around one day hahaha


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## Chico's Mum (Sep 9, 2008)

I've found an article in a blog that talked about What *Keefer* said about If neutered they have *bone cancer* is much higher. Also the chances of *tumors in their heart* is bigger in neutered dogs.


> -Neutered males have 2.4 times the risk of a heart tumor than intact males. The reason for this increased risk is unknown.
> -Spaying and neutering can increase the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer) by 1.3 to 2 times, although the cause and effect relationship is unknown.
> 
> http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/01/08/spayneuter-what-does-the-science-say/


I found this Article about *early neutering.*


> In the United States, most dogs are neutered between 5 and 8 months of age. Many humane shelters and veterinarians are starting to neuter male animals at a younger age, even 6-14 weeks of age. This early neutering does not affect the growth rate, and there are no appreciable differences in skeletal, physical, or behavioral development between those animals neutered early than those neutered at a more traditional age. It must be remembered that younger animals may need different anesthetics and are more prone to hypothermia (lower than normal body temperature) during surgery. As long as procedures are modified to account for these differences, early neutering is very safe. In fact, animals neutered at a younger age often have faster recoveries than those neutered when they are older.
> http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2112&aid=911


Here is another article about how we know the best age to neuter our dogs.
http://dogs.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Best_Age_Neuter_Dog

All in all the risk of not neutering is more than the risk of neutering. So I will get him neutered.


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## Keeffer (Feb 26, 2008)

Why should a vet warn you for the risks of neutering? I never met a vet who encouraged getting the dog spayed or neutered. And if you want to know the goods and the bads about neutering you should just ask the vet I guess.

I wanted a male for several reasons, and one of them is that they have a different character than females, that is if they aren't neutered. Of course everybody thinks different about neutering, but I thought it was worth mentioning the risks.


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## barefoot (Sep 24, 2008)

The new studies have shown that if you neuter a male before they are 1 year old it can damage their growth plates. Then the growth plates don't close when they are suppost to. This is why we are seeing rangier (is that a word) dogs. Lankier I guess is another discription. Longer legs, slimmer builds.
It is only in male dogs. So if you can wait to 1 year it is good. 

With my border collie I was aware of this but chose to neuter him early still. He was extremely dominant. His father was aggressive and was nervous with my kids. With constant training and leadership he is a good family dog. Though I would never leave him unsupervised with children.


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## barefoot (Sep 24, 2008)

I just read what you posted Chico's Mum. So I may be wrong. I guess the growth plate thing could or could not be true. Something to ask our vets.


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## *Tricia* (Dec 1, 2007)

Things must be much different in the Netherlands than they are in the US, because I have never met a vet that DIDN'T encourage spaying and neutering every pet. Heck, we even get a daily plea to spay and neuter your pets from The Price is Right game show


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## pigeonsheep (Nov 8, 2008)

*hollysmommy*, i used to watch that show!
*keeffer* ur vet must be different because my vet didnt give me an option he just said "we'll see you again when dexter gets his neutering"


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## Chico's Mum (Sep 9, 2008)

I think maybe every country in deferent. When it's come to this. 

My cousin had her female dog came over yesterday and Chico was trying to hump her dog. It was the first time his done that. 
First marking and now humping. I'm definitely getting him neutered.


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## catz4m8z (Aug 28, 2008)

I think toy breeds are considered adult alot sooner so to say a specific age is adult is misleading. Some giant breeds are still considered puppies at 2-3 years! My boy started displaying adult behaviours at 3 months and really hasnt grown much, in length and height, since 5 months.
Also at my vet the risk of narcosis from anaesthetic was quite small as they use one of the newer ones on the market, meaning the arent under as deep and come round quickly.
Whats got me in a total quandry is when to neuter my little girl. The research on that subject makes your head spin!!


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## katsrevenge (Nov 24, 2008)

This is very interesting... Kali should be getting fixed soon, she's about 5 1/2... but.. I may just put it off a while now. Let more growth get in there.


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## Chico's Mum (Sep 9, 2008)

catz4m8z said:


> I think toy breeds are considered adult alot sooner so to say a specific age is adult is misleading. Some giant breeds are still considered puppies at 2-3 years! My boy started displaying adult behaviours at 3 months and really hasnt grown much, in length and height, since 5 months.
> Also at my vet the risk of narcosis from anaesthetic was quite small as they use one of the newer ones on the market, meaning the arent under as deep and come round quickly.
> Whats got me in a total quandry is when to neuter my little girl. The research on that subject makes your head spin!!


Thats true. I read that small dogs are more mature for there age than big dogs.


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## Keeffer (Feb 26, 2008)

Hehe I really never met a vet who suggested to neuter or spay my animals. I've had cats, rats, dogs, rabbits, mice. As I said, spaying/neutering is a typical American thing. I don't say it's a bad thing though, but you can spay/neuter your dog when he's a little older.

Chihuahua's are full grown in height when they're about 8 months old. But mentally they are still a puppy. Btw, spaying at 6 months is still to early than isn't it, cuz they are full grown in height at 8 months.  But their body still develops untill the age of 2/3 years. They get stronger and males get the typical male expression. Thats why it's better to neuter them at 1.5 years that at 6 months. Also it won't prevent the dog from humping (if he already started doing this). Female dogs do that too. 

Did you know there is a medicine that works like neutering? The testicles shrink and the male cant make babies anymore (sorryyyy forgot the word for this, I just woke up lol). It works for 6 months. After that the testicles will get to normal, takes a few weeks though. This will have the same effect as neutering and you can see if your dogs behaviour changes because of it. Maybe you can try that first, before thinking of neutering?


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## katsrevenge (Nov 24, 2008)

Wouldn't doing that be almost worse? I know that it is pretty easy to have bad reactions to birth control... but the woman I've know how had their uterus removed (medical reason) were much more stable after..?


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## Keeffer (Feb 26, 2008)

Why would that be worse?


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## katsrevenge (Nov 24, 2008)

Well, for starters.. I'd think that would entail bathing the body's organs in female hormones.


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

Chico's Mum said:


> Thats true. I read that small dogs are more mature for there age than big dogs.


 I was thinking this thought as well. The other thing is the neutering in males is supposed to cut the risks of other troubles in later life ( and since chis live a long time this can be important) with certain glands, bladder continence and infections. If the pup is grown to his adult physical size it is probaly no harm to go ahead versus waiting.
I had reservations about this too, but the were my reservations. I went a head and did what was best for the dog and not what was easiest for me to cope with.


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## Chico's Mum (Sep 9, 2008)

Yeah reading this thread gave me reservations too. but in the end I will do what is best for Chico.


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## Clariana (Aug 15, 2011)

Are there any updates on this? I thought initially the benefit of the doubt was clear cut in favouring neutering... Now it seems this is not necessarily the case...

Any comments welcome. I have a male chi, 5 months old called Chulo.


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

This thread is 3 years old, most of the people posting on it have moved on and don't post here anymore. My wise old vet that did all my animals when I lived in LA told me the best time for females was 5 to 6 months and males at 9 months because they need the extra time for growth. I have always followed this and have had no problems with my young dogs. With older strays, I just do them when I get them. The only one that had problems in all the hundreds of animals I have had and gotten fixed was Reggie. He was 6 years old when I found him and had one retained testicle and his incision got infected. Everyone else was smooth sailing.


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## Taco_Pup (Mar 17, 2010)

I think in general it keeps them calmer and more relaxed. You are meant to neuter them before 5 months or sometimes it doesn't make much difference in this aspect.

Also, as ppl have stated it helps decrease their chances of cancers.

xx


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## LostLakeLua (Sep 6, 2009)

Wow this is old, lol. I wonder if the OP decided to neuter him or not? And if not, I'd be interested to see if he's done good at not marking, dominance issues, etc. 

This is just purely my opinion but I just think intact male dogs are... well, kinda icky. When sexually mature they all just seem to have that persona of a 15 year old acne covered greasy teenage male who wants to %*@( every woman in sight.

I know that's totally a personification but... their behavior is just SOOO based on their hormones at that point. Even if there are no females in the immediate area, they can sense one in heat up to a mile away. And really I just would hate to be that... well, sexually frustrated!! For a dog to have to endure that is just.. unnecessary I guess. I've known people who had 4-5 year old chi males that after being fixed; they just became so much more friendly, and these were people who never even thought their dogs had any behavior issues to begin with. They only noticed how much nicer and less anxiety-stricken they were AFTER the fact; because to them the way he was before was just *normal* to them.

I of course understand that people who are showing and **bettering the breed** need them intact to be able to do that. And kudos to them for that.

I wont get on my breeding soapbox as I do know there are a few members here who are breeding and admittedly aren't showing; and this forum is a LOT more lax than any I've been on before. But I've never understood on how they are bettering the breed if they're just doing it to make more puppies... IMO that's what contributes to pet overpopulation. It's not always a case of puppy mills... it's legitimate dog lovers who care AMAZINGLY and spoil all their pets who have occasional litters because they know they can place the puppies. Okay, but that takes up potential homes of the many chi's in rescue or shelters (even purebreds.) And if those folks want a pedigreed one, show breeders are very willing to place their (health tested) pets in homes for very reasonable costs. I know that people do a very good job screening out forever homes; but people who aren't willing to admit that this is still part of the problem are the ones that contribute to a lot of the overpopulation if you ask me. Yes you can have all the binding contracts you want, that you'll be willing to take the dog back, etc. and take full responsibility for the ones you produce. But it doesn't change the fact that there's *no reason* for it. It's just unnecessary... if you aren't bettering the breed, and able to PROVE that you are with some sort of title that dogs do have to work very hard to achieve (showing is NOT a beauty contest, and is NOT easy, or cheap!!!!) then I just don't see a reason. I really, truly don't...

I have a beautiful, wonderful, excellent pedigreed chinese crested that was spayed today. I could've easily found her a stud and placed every puppy produced on a spay/neuter contract with people I screen out and do all the health tests I can; and do everything right. But, this wonderful little dog is 2 inches shorter than the standard allows and has never set a paw in the show ring. She is healthy. She is, apart from height, a very good representation of the breed. Her temperament is phenomenal. But as long as there are enough CC's in the world to warrant as many rescue groups as it does, even for a "rare" breed like that, I will never see a reason to put more into the world. There are more than enough showers who are bettering the breed standard that I don't worry either Chihuahuas or Cresteds will become extinct. So I'll leave that up to the experts, and have my dogs fixed. I have a pawprint tattoo on my right wrist, and on the left a stainless steel bracelet that reads "Until they all have a home," that I put on using a vice and haven't taken off in almost 2 years for a reason. 

That's just all I'll say on it. Just voicing my opinion.


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

KittynKahlua said:


> Wow this is old, lol. I wonder if the OP decided to neuter him or not? And if not, I'd be interested to see if he's done good at not marking, dominance issues, etc.
> 
> This is just purely my opinion but I just think intact male dogs are... well, kinda icky. When sexually mature they all just seem to have that persona of a 15 year old acne covered greasy teenage male who wants to %*@( every woman in sight.
> 
> ...


Well said


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

How can you say you 'don't mind' the marking? The urine smell from marking is really smelly. I would neuter. That's me. I have heard that unneutered males also get really enlarged prostates also. Sue


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## Chihuahuasloveme (Jan 8, 2010)

The marking is crazy I absolutely hated it! Even after neutering it took months and months and months for ninja to stop marking. Males that mark in the house = the worst!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I agree, I would NEVER put up with marking in the house. NEVER. If I had an intact male that I was showing, he would be wearing a belly band. Allowing that in the house is just unsanitary and downright repulsive. That's like letting an untrained toddler walk around the house and pee everywhere. Who would allow that to happen? And just chalk it up to "male behavior" and go on? Not very many people are willing to put up with that. 

Neutered boys make the BEST pets.


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

Yeah, I could never say that I wouldn't mind the marking! Lion tried to mark a few times in the house before he was neutered. He still marks a lot outside, but I am sure if he was intact it would be 10X worse.


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## LovesMyPups (Apr 18, 2010)

I miss Pidge


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## mooberry (Jan 31, 2011)

Lincoln was fixed before he started marking so we never got there, but I could never imagine having to endure a 75lb dog marking *shudder*

I got Lincoln fixed because I knew that I would never contribute to the pet over population. I plan to become a breeder one day and I will do it correctly when that day comes and I have the money and time Ie. Most likely when I retire lol. Until then I will not put Lincoln through the frustration of wanting to mate when I wouldn't let him.


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## pigeonsheep (Nov 8, 2008)

Clariana said:


> Are there any updates on this? I thought initially the benefit of the doubt was clear cut in favouring neutering... Now it seems this is not necessarily the case...
> 
> Any comments welcome. I have a male chi, 5 months old called Chulo.


someone told me my old old old thread was bein commented again. so i had to come back and update. no hes still not neutered, it was my choice. the only behavior problem he had was that he would snarl if i picked him up before he was done being outside. he also growls when hes protecting when im laying down and someone comes into the room. besides that he is perfectly happy and healthy. i dont know...it seems that some people would be appauled by that kind of behavior but i think there could be worst events than this. and yes he's still markin little by little and its not dangerous and unsanitary as we steam clean the whole upstairs of the house every week. i been wanting to get a belly band for a while now i just havent had the time to pick them out online as i been way too busy with maintaining work and my DreamChii dog product business. i make personalized embroidery blankets, pillows, bandanas, cooling bandanas, coin purses/treat bags, and a new project coming up very soon. i also have facebook if u guys are missing me LOL. just message me if u want it

woops i just noticed i put a link of the fb under my siggy a while ago, well there u go haha :daisy:

as for "running after a female thats a mile away" he has no interest in dogs so im not worried about that. he barely sniffs any butts when hes out on his walk. hes only beginning to sniff a couple "calm" dogs but if theyre hyper he shows no interest. he only goes nuts over cats/kittens, sniffing and licking their cute little butts and faces  

im planning on getting a female puppy chi next year sometime in august. but she will definitely be spayed early on her months so there will be no "oops" litter. 



LovesMyPups said:


> I miss Pidge


i miss u too! u should really get fb  im barely on here...and im glad im not here much. i cant handle online drama as well as real life one right now :albino:


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Pidge - you need to make belly bands as part of your inventory!!!


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## tulula's mum (Jan 4, 2010)

Hi pidge, nice to here from you again


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