# Brody's labs and vaccination titer results ...



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I had Brody into the vet for his annual exam, heartworm test, bloodwork, and vaccination titers. His exam was great - his knees are firmly seated with no sign of luxation which was a relief. LP is such a problem in our breed. Teeth are excellent, good body condition, etc. I had a complete blood panel drawn, including thyroid. All blood values came back within normal range. Kidneys (BUN and creatinine), liver enzymes, electrolytes (potassium, calcium, mag, etc) as well as hemoglobin and T4 (thyroid). The vet said he was the picture of health.  But what I was most interested in was his antibodies. 

I had titers drawn to check immune response to parvo, distemper, and rabies (which takes longer and is pending). The parvo and distemper titers showed adequate response to vaccination, so I was thrilled to see those results. 

Brody was vaccinated as a puppy at 10 weeks, 13 weeks, and 16 weeks. He had the rabies vaccine at 6 months. He has not had any vaccinations since and he is 2 1/2 years old. He will likely not be vaccinated again in his lifetime. The vet gave us a waiver for the rabies vaccine so we are in compliance with local and state laws. 

I may titer again in a year or so but there is no reason to believe that vaccinations do not last for the life of the dog. Duration of immunity studies are proving that to be true. 

Some good links in case of anyone is interested in titering and vaccination/immunology info:

TITER TEST

Age and long-term protective immunity in dogs and ... [J Comp Pathol. 2010] - PubMed result

Science of Vaccine Damage

Here's a copy of his titer results and a picture. Just because he's a good boy.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Great news!


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## KayC (May 3, 2005)

Tracy, that is great. I am sure his raw diet plays a big part in his perfect health and teeth. I havent had Zoey vaccinated since her rabbies (I waited until she was 1 year) either. I hope I don't have to.


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## Adrienne (Apr 3, 2009)

Yay!!! Good Job Brody on your perfect health!


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## Natti (Jun 24, 2010)

Excellent results!!


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## widogmom (Mar 23, 2011)

My vet agrees with you about the vaccines - we have stopped vaccinating Kali since her immune-mediated thrombocytopenia, and have a waiver letter as well. I have been skeptical of the vaccine schedule since I found out that the one-year rabies and the three-year rabies are virtually identical (except for the price, of course).


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

widogmom said:


> My vet agrees with you about the vaccines - we have stopped vaccinating Kali since her immune-mediated thrombocytopenia, and have a waiver letter as well. I have been skeptical of the vaccine schedule since I found out that the one-year rabies and the three-year rabies are virtually identical (except for the price, of course).


Awesome that you have a forward-thinking vet! Many aren't. Vaccines are a huge money maker for vets. 

And the one year rabies and the three year rabies are EXACTLY the same product. The only thing that is different is the insert. The actual vaccine is identical.


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## Amandarose531 (Aug 9, 2010)

I'm not sure how it is about animal vaccines but I know giving the flu shot at work is A HUGE markup, I think we pay something like $0.10 per vaccine, and charge $30 per person so yeah do that math... you're totally right most vets love the cushion money when business is down.


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## FireFox (Jun 4, 2009)

WOW excellent results!!! Well I am not suprised, just look at him - Brody looks like a picture of health  his coat, his teeth, his energy!!!


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## Chihuahuasloveme (Jan 8, 2010)

Very interesting I need to get these exemption letters for my crew ninja of course I will never vaccinate although my city bylaw office said we disnt need an exemption grrr this makes me so mad! I hate vets well the ones who push everything anyways


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## elaina (Jul 1, 2008)

Great news you got  , i'm so glad you posted this Tracy, the last vaccine my girls got was a 3 year rabies and 3 year distemper. when they are getting due for there next vaccine i will discuss this blood titer test with my Veteranarian. i'd much rather go that route if i can


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## LostLakeLua (Sep 6, 2009)

This is very inspiring.
After quitting my job at the vet clinic this winter; I've been mentally trying to prepare where to go for Kahlua's vaccines and veterinary care. 
I've decided I'm going to be that crazy lady who calls at the clinics in a 3 mile radius until I find one that agrees (or at least respects enough) with my standards of medical care. 
I REFUSE to over-vaccinate my dog. She's not due until October so I have plenty of time to think... I'd LOVE to find a holistic vet near me but even after posting multiple ads on the IL/WI border Craigslists I haven't gotten a single recommendation...
Anyway thats just me rambling lol. Congrats Brody!! And you too Tracy; I suppose you had SOMETHING to do with his clean bill of health. 

Edit to ask: If you don't mind saying how much was each Titer?? Did they have to draw additional blood; or was the same lab they sent it to able to use the original sample for his routine bloodwork as well??


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## widogmom (Mar 23, 2011)

The only thing that makes me nervous about not vaccinating is the rabies vaccine - the document that my vet and I signed states that, if Kali bites anyone (she has never done so, but she is an American Water Spaniel and the potential is very real) she will be treated as an unvaccinated dog and quarantined for two weeks. At her age and considering her medical condition, it is unlikely that she would survive quarantine...so you know that I am very, very careful about who she interacts with! We don't have much choice - the vaccines could kill her, so we just go with careful.


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## widogmom (Mar 23, 2011)

Kitty&Kahlua said:


> I've decided I'm going to be that crazy lady who calls at the clinics in a 3 mile radius until I find one that agrees (or at least respects enough) with my standards of medical care.


That's _not_ crazy - I know people who go to vets 20 miles away regularly to get the holistic/natural treatment their dogs need. I take Kali to a vet 45 miles away for cold laser because my vet doesn't offer it - and he's cool with that. It is _so_ important to have a vet that listens to you and respects your opinion - believe me, we have our share of cow doctors around here who are heartworm-optional, disposable-dog vets, who know nothing of pain management or natural healing - and don't even get me started on how cats are treated as second-class citizens! Sounds to me like you're being a good, thorough Dog Mom!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

widogmom said:


> The only thing that makes me nervous about not vaccinating is the rabies vaccine - the document that my vet and I signed states that, if Kali bites anyone (she has never done so, but she is an American Water Spaniel and the potential is very real) she will be treated as an unvaccinated dog and quarantined for two weeks. At her age and considering her medical condition, it is unlikely that she would survive quarantine...so you know that I am very, very careful about who she interacts with! We don't have much choice - the vaccines could kill her, so we just go with careful.


I think you are doing the responsible thing. You are between a rock and a hard place it sounds like. We all have to do what we are most comfortable with.



Kitty&Kahlua said:


> This is very inspiring.
> 
> Edit to ask: If you don't mind saying how much was each Titer?? Did they have to draw additional blood; or was the same lab they sent it to able to use the original sample for his routine bloodwork as well??


They drew 7 ml's of blood. I'm not sure how that was divided up for the titers and his bloodwork. The cost was $65 for the distemper/parvo titer. The rabies titer was very expensive. It was $130. There are only 3 labs in the US that do the rabies titer and it takes over 2 weeks to get back. (We are still waiting). I think it's expensive because rabies is governed by local and state law, so there's not much wiggle room. You can choose not to give regular vaccines. But it is the law to have rabies, or an exemption by your vet.


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## LostLakeLua (Sep 6, 2009)

Yeah; I haven't had any of mine vaccinated for distemper at all except for the initial ones. I admit I haven't done titers either; but I still haven't bothered to "booster" them since they're not required anyway.
The only one I'm having second thoughts on (except for rabies, which I'd gladly pay the price for) is bordetella/kennel cough. It's not required by LAW, but it IS required by a lot of the dog-friendly places I like taking mine too. Our humane society actually has a dog park to which the proceeds benefit; and it's never really busy so I'd love to take Kahlua there... but they do require they be vaccinated against bordetella; and I TOTALLY understand why... I'm just hesitant to give her anything that SHE doesn't need...


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## 2Cheese (Feb 21, 2010)

That's awesome Tracy!!! Addy is due for her vaccines next month and I was going to do titers as well. I was wondering though...will you have to do a titer every year for rabies?


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

2Cheese said:


> That's awesome Tracy!!! Addy is due for her vaccines next month and I was going to do titers as well. I was wondering though...will you have to do a titer every year for rabies?


No, my vet gave me an exemption. So Brody is compliant with local and state laws. If his rabies titer comes back showing adequate immunity, and I believe it will - it's still pending, then he won't be vaccinated again. :hello1:


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## 2Cheese (Feb 21, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> No, my vet gave me an exemption. So Brody is compliant with local and state laws. If his rabies titer comes back showing adequate immunity, and I believe it will - it's still pending, then he won't be vaccinated again. :hello1:


That's awesome!!!! Im going to talk to my vet!! I was just there the other day and asked him about Lacey's vaccine. She is 6mos now and Im still trying to hold off. He said he will not inject her with the full syringe. He doesnt feel the need to. So I find some comfort in that.

But dang....the price of the titer is worth the exemption :hello1:


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

2cheese said:


> but dang....the price of the titer is worth the exemption :hello1:


exactly.


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## huskyluv (Oct 24, 2008)

Awesome news Tracy! I'm sure his diet has a huge amount to do with his good health!

I normally choose not to titer test and do not vaccinate except for the 3 yr rabies. At over $100 a pop for titer testing. these dogs would leave me broke if I had them all done each year! My dogs have had all their adult boosters and I don't intend to ever vaccinate again, save for the rabies every 3 yrs as required by law. Still, my dogs aren't due for rabies until 2012 and 2013. 

Now I do get their bloodwork done and HW test done, just not the titer tests. Even without the titer tests my annuals for all 3 of my dogs is around $600-$700. :nscared:


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## Lisajazzi (Oct 27, 2010)

That's very interesting! My vet has said that the 1st year booster is worth doing and then after that not for at least 7 years. It's interesting to hear about the titer levels without a first year booster.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Val - I don't blame you on the titers! They add up quick. It's not something I will be doing again for awhile. I feel confident that his immunity is high and will stay that way. FYI - if you tell your vet that your dogs had a reaction to the vaccine (hives, swelling, itching, vomiting) - they will write you an exemption.  Just a thought.

Lisa - Yes to be honest I was curious too since he had only the 3 puppy shots and nothing else and still his immunity came back high. Your vet is very forward-thinking especially for being in the UK as all I've read says that the UK vets are still hanging on to the vaccinate every year mentality. I think they will come around, but it will take some time.


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## Kaila (Nov 10, 2009)

Thanks for the link Tracy!

"Expect to pay your veterinarian from $40 to $100 for CDV and CPV titer testing from a laboratory, and slightly less for an in-office test, for which your veterinarian must purchase the TiterCHEKTM test kit."



What I'm worried about is that I'm going out of the state on Dec. 19th and he's due for s bordatella vaccine before I leave. I guess maybe I should just get that one vaccine and then titers for the others another time. I think he's up to date on everything else (but I'll find out when I get there, I guess). I wish titers weren't so darn expensive. Do you do titers every year?



EDIT: Or not!

"Although any vaccine, including those your dog has previously gotten without incident, can cause an adverse reaction. Vaccines made with killed virus, however, are the most adversely reactive. This includes the rabies vaccine, *Bordetella*, Coronavirus, and Leptospirosis. Why? Because killed vaccines contain adjuvants (additives that "boost" the immune reaction). Live viruses don't need boosting. Fortunately, with the exception of rabies, these other shots are not recommended for all dogs. Also, they are seldom effective. *Don't give them without good reason.*"


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Kaila, definitely do NOT give bordetella! It only protects against a couple strains of kennel cough and there are many. It's not worth it! Kennel cough is nothing other than a cold in an otherwise healthy dog if he should happen to contract it. And a dog with a healthy immune system is likely not to pick it up, even if exposed. 

The ONLY vaccine you are required, by law, to give is rabies. ALL other vaccines are voluntary. Ask your vet when the last time he treated a healthy adult dog that came down with distemper or parvo. It is very very rare. Yes, parvo kills puppies. But once they become adults, it's really not a threat unless you have a sick immunocompromised dog.

And... if your dog has had at least one distemper/parvo after the age of 16 weeks - you are likely protected for at least 7 years and probably the LIFE of the dog. Over vaccination is a major cause of immune related diseases, allergies, and some theorize it is a major contribution to rage syndrome and aggression problems. Ever have a dog afraid of thunderstorms or loud noises? Yes, that is also thought to be vaccine damage.

Lots of research and information out there, I encourage everyone to not just take their vets advice, but to do some research and make up your own mind on the best way to take care of your dog.


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## teetee (Aug 25, 2011)

What is so bad about getting the rabies vaccine? I'm a new chi owner trying to learn all I can..


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

teetee said:


> What is so bad about getting the rabies vaccine? I'm a new chi owner trying to learn all I can..


If you live in the US, rabies is required by law. Follow your local and state ordinances requiring it's administration.


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## OzChi (Oct 26, 2011)

Any Aussie's know whether vets here will titer? Axle had such a terrible reaction to his 2nd and 3rd vaccinations. Not an allergy puffy face type reaction but extreme lethargy, wouldn't get up to eat or drink, wouldn't let anyone touch him. Lasted for 12 hours and I was frantic the whole time.

Miss Chloe gets her 2nd vaccination on Sat so I will ask my vet. They are pretty old school though so i'm not holding out much hope.


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## CHITheresa (Apr 30, 2011)

That is really great news, I am going to have titer done on Amberleah next year. I used to get my Pom's shots every year. When I meant my husband he told me they didn't need them. Well I didn't listen that 1st year and that year my pom's both got sick, I hate to say it but he told me so. So glad you posted this. Than You.


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## Jerry'sMom (May 5, 2009)

Brody is the picture of health 
You can be so proud of him Tracy! You are giving him a wonderful life!


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## teetee (Aug 25, 2011)

Brodysmom said:


> If you live in the US, rabies is required by law. Follow your local and state ordinances requiring it's administration.


I do live in the US, and move overseas every few years, so rabies is a must for Miya. I must have misread, I got the impression that some folks were trying to find exemptions from having to give the rabies vaccine.


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## Mel's chi's (Jun 2, 2011)

so Tracy do I have this correct....you only gave the puppy vaccines and the rabies...not the booster?


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

teetee said:


> I do live in the US, and move overseas every few years, so rabies is a must for Miya. I must have misread, I got the impression that some folks were trying to find exemptions from having to give the rabies vaccine.


You are correct. There are many people who fly under the radar on rabies. I wouldn't advise anyone to do this as there are ramifications if your dog would bite someone. Brody does have an exemption (due to a reaction), but I will continue to titer just to have "proof" of immunity in case something would come up. 



Mel's chi's said:


> so Tracy do I have this correct....you only gave the puppy vaccines and the rabies...not the booster?


That's right, he had the puppy series ONLY (3 shots 3 weeks apart) and rabies at 6 months. That's it. He will not be vaccinated again and titers are proof that his immunity is strong. And just to be clear on terminology, giving more shots doesn't 'booster' anything. *You are either immune, or you are not. There is NO inbetween. * (But I realize that booster is a word that is used for repeat vaccinations).


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## Kaila (Nov 10, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> Kaila, definitely do NOT give bordetella! It only protects against a couple strains of kennel cough and there are many. It's not worth it! Kennel cough is nothing other than a cold in an otherwise healthy dog if he should happen to contract it. And a dog with a healthy immune system is likely not to pick it up, even if exposed.
> 
> The ONLY vaccine you are required, by law, to give is rabies. ALL other vaccines are voluntary. Ask your vet when the last time he treated a healthy adult dog that came down with distemper or parvo. It is very very rare. Yes, parvo kills puppies. But once they become adults, it's really not a threat unless you have a sick immunocompromised dog.
> 
> ...


Thank you.  Here's Teddy's vaccination schedule so far:

---

Teddy's birth date is 8/4/2009.

9/28/2009 (breeder's shot records):
Canine Distemper
Bordatella
Hepatitis
Parainfluenza
Canine Parvo

11/14/2009: (about 3 months old):
Booster Canine DHLPP-P & CV

12/5/2009 (about 4 months old):
VAX Canine BB - intranasal (Bordatella)
VAX Canine DHLPP (1 yr)
VAX Canine Rabies Vaccine (1 yr)

2/24/2010 (about 7 months old):
Orchiectomy (Neuter)
BUN/Hematocrit (HCT - 38%)

5/14/2010 (about 9 months old):
VAX Canine Lyme Disease

12/9/2010 (about 1 yr. 4 mo. old):
Nobivac Intra-Trac3 ADT (combo. canine parainfluenza virus, Bordetella bronchiseptica, and canine adenovirus type 2 infection)
VAX Canine DHLPP (2 yr), Recombitek DHLPP - C6
VAX Canine Rabies Vaccine (3 yr), Imrab Rabies Vaccine

He is now almost 2 1/2 years old.

---

I think I'm going to stop with everything but rabies and order titers for parvo and distemper when he's due for those vaccines. Is there anything else I should check for?

Lyme doesn't even seem necessary since he hasn't.. ever.. been bit by a tick. (I was just being overly cautious, I realize.) And I've heard bad things about vaccinating for bordatella and others. Do I still need to titer for those?


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I do the one year "boosters", 1 year after their last puppy vac. The REASON why is that the studies showing lifetime immunity are based off of a dog that was 6 months or older when it got it's last vaccination. 

I also stay in compliance with rabies laws. Having a breeding program I really can't get around that one...my vet will allow me to do a rabies titer in the event I feel one of my dogs will not handle the rabies vac well or has had a reaction in the past. 

After the 1 year 'booster', I titer every 3 years there after. I do not feel annual titers are necessary. This keeps my vet happy and it keeps me happy, and most importantly it protects my dogs from unnecessary vaccinations that are harmful to them.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

The only titers I know of are for parvo/distemper/rabies. I would not give bordetella, lyme, or any other vaccine (dog flu, etc). Give rabies in accordance with your local and state laws.

I agree with Kristi, I will titer for parvo/distemper and rabies every 3 years. He won't be vaccinated again unless titers come back unacceptable.

Brody gets an annual exam every spring with baseline bloodwork and a heartworm test. This gives my vet an opportunity to check him out physically and also to make sure there are no changes on his bloodwork from year to year. I then buy 6 months of heartworm pills and I give that every 45 days during heartworm season.


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## Blondie87 (Jan 10, 2011)

I checked titer prices at our vet's office, and it was $98 for each pup. I think I am going to do their 1 year boosters for DAP, and get their first Rabies shot, hopefully the 3 year. Then try to titer every 3 years. I need to check around to see if I can get titers any cheaper... cuz that is a lil to spendy..


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

I had no idea that they were to get any other injections (other than rabies which they have all had) after their puppy shots. My vet has not mentioned nor sent a card.


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