# Questions about neutering and housebreaking?



## CanucksStar#17 (Aug 17, 2013)

Sorry this is going to be a longish read.

I have a cute little chi named Joey who is just over a year old. (I haven't even had him for a full year yet) He is so precious. 
Anyway like any dog he has his issues and one of those issues is marking inside the house, his isn't neutered, something I wanted done when he was old enough but my mom wanted to wait because she knows a Chi breeder and the breeder said she wanted to use him. He is a really beautiful dog. 
The breeder ended up moving so it didn't work out and Joey is still not neutered. Because his is still intact he marks. I have tried everything to get him to stop (only positive) the only thing I can think of that might work is to get him fixed, I know this won't be a magical fix but I am hoping if he stops having the urge to mark as much I can then hopefully train it out of him.

Does anyone know of positive ways to do that? When I take him out of his play pen I always watch him, but because I only have two eyes I can't always see him, so he marks sometimes. Especially if he is in a new part of the house. Something I try to not let happen if I'm not there to reinforce his training. 

Also he has a issue that I heard has a lot to do with being intact. He has bitten/nipped at my uncle three times. My uncle is quite loud (in a good way, he is always happy and has a loud laugh) so I think Joey thinks he is a threat and bites him. He hasn't ever drawn blood but I still don't want him to ever do that. I keep him in his playpen when my uncle is visiting but I don't want to always have to do that.

I'm wondering if neutering will help with those issues?
Also will it be a issue with him being a little over a year old? I know it isn't as good for the dog is you it too early. I haven't personally read anything about them being too old.

Now for a different question.
I have heard of people using pee pads for winter when it is cold outside. It gets really cold here and I was wondering if I used pee pads if it would make his marking worse? Or should I at least wait until he is neutered to try it?
Also do pee pads smell at all like pee? My mom has an extremely sensitive nose and if it smelled at all then that wouldn't work for us.

Thanks in advance!


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## michelle robison (Nov 22, 2015)

Most reputable breeders won't use a dog for stud that hasn't been temperment tested, health of the line checked and a breeding line check, some even require DNA done.

Usually hobby or backyard breeders will take any dog for stud, which usually ends up with ill bred puppies..they're just breeding to sell puppies.

AKC doesn't mean quality,it doesn't even insure purebred since it relies on the honesty of the person breeding..which is why reputable breeders are checking the lineage and doing DNA testing of any breeding dogs they use..

If he's bitten your uncle three times, consider neutering for his sake plus there are so many people just breeding chis and other small dogs without showing or proving the line..

I volunteer with rescue and see what happens with hobby breeders , many end up in shelters , many die in shelters , hoping for a rescue to save them, if they're lucky..


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## CanucksStar#17 (Aug 17, 2013)

I already said I was getting him neutered. I just want to know if his age will be a problem. I can't have him marking or biting people so I am obviously going to be getting him fixed.

It wasn't my idea to leave him un-neutered. And this lady was a reputable breeder, Joey wasn't old enough to breed when she wanted to use him. So we hadn't tested him for anything let alone temperament. We did have him vet checked but I'm sure she would have wanted everything done if she was going to use him.

I do disagree with you to a point on the backyard breeding. Puppy mills are the ones who breed to sell puppies, not all backyard breeders. I know of a couple people who ae backyard breeders and yes they do breed mutts because a lot of people can't afford purebred dogs. The pups turn out just fine, maybe even better then some high end dogs do. I'm not saying that all backyard breeders are good, heck there are likely more bad ones then good, I'm just saying they aren't all bad. And not all of the puppies end up in shelters. Likely a lot less then people think.
Also there aren't as many puppies and dogs in shelters as people think, my grandma had to wait months to get a dog from the shelter, it was hard for her because she really wanted a dog and she got lucky that she was at the top of the list. She said that there were at least 3 more pages of people waiting for a dog from the shelter. 
Again I'm not saying all places are like that, but where I live there is almost a shortage of dogs. What would happen if everyone stopped backyard breeding? Some dogs would go extinct, the only ones that would be left would be purebred dogs and from what I hear they also have a lot of health problems. 

Also a lot of shelter dogs have a lot of issues, issues that can't be easily fixed. I could never own a dog that had been abused, it just wouldn't work, that is why there are backyard breeders, for those of us that can't own dogs from shelters.

Of course everyone should and does have their own opinion, you have yours and I have mine. I'm not in anyway trying to overstep my boundaries. Please let me know if I did that! 

I'm also not saying purebred dogs aren't good, Joey is actually a purebred, but I also have a mutt, she is a such a nice dog! I know that without a backyard breeder I would not have my girl right now and that makes me sad just thinking about it! 
There really is both sides to each story.


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## michelle robison (Nov 22, 2015)

I volunteer in rescue and in shelters and most of the dogs we get are from back yard breeders, many have issues due to poor breeding stock..they end up in shelters because of irresponsible breeders and owners. I didn't say "all BYB dogs are bad or that they all end up in shelter".. I said "many"..


As for not many dogs or puppies in shelters, depends on the area, some have many and some don't but if you see shelters in larger cities, they're full of chis, maltese, to pit bulls. Many from backyard breeders who breed cheap dogs..

Never heard of people not being able to get a dog from a shelter, though some will check people out and turn them down usually for good reason, where back yard breeders will sell to anyone.

As for puppy mills, I volunteer with rescues that take in puppymill dogs so I know a lot about puppymills.

We also have a lot of backyard breeders who get "AKC registered" dogs, but that's all they do as far as research. Reputable breeders will not sell a dog to anyone without a limited contract, meaning they don't use their dog to breed.

The reason back yard breeders can sell cheap is they don't invest in the line,prove the line, making sure they have a healthy lineage and congenital issues or temperment issues, all they do is look for AKC.
Puppymills have AKC registered dogs for cheap and easy to get for back yard breeders to start their own breeding operation.

Sad that people defend back yard breeding programs when they don't see the results first hand like people in rescue.. 

I used to think back yard breeders were not a problem until I got more involved at our shelter and rescue.. I asked my friends who BYB'd and they couldn't tell me much about their breeding lines other than "AKC"..

We looked up some of the "breeders", only to find it traced back to puppymills that were shutdown due to FDA violations so they moved and reopened.. they're a bigger problem than puppy mills since they sell to pet stores who sell the puppies for thousands whereas back yard breeders will sell puppies for $150-$500, usually.


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## michelle robison (Nov 22, 2015)

It's hard to get them to stop marking once they've been used for stud.. just saying.. I missread you post about you going to get him neutered,I'm sorry.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Neutering will only change behaviours that are hormone driven.
It is unlikely that neutering will resolve the marking issue unless he is only marking where intact females have been.
Neutering won't help with aggression towards humans, that is a training issue.
I have two intact males (2 and nearly 5) neither mark in the house or bite people. You don't have to neuter to have a nice pet.


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## Dorothy's Mom (Apr 8, 2015)

michelle robison said:


> I volunteer in rescue and in shelters and most of the dogs we get are from back yard breeders, many have issues due to poor breeding stock..they end up in shelters because of irresponsible breeders and owners. I didn't say "all BYB dogs are bad or that they all end up in shelter".. I said "many"..
> 
> 
> As for not many dogs or puppies in shelters, depends on the area, some have many and some don't but if you see shelters in larger cities, they're full of chis, maltese, to pit bulls. Many from backyard breeders who breed cheap dogs..
> ...


The whole puppymill market makes me sick. It really saddens me when I hear of ANYONE breeding in such horrid conditions just for profit. Thank you for being so involved in trying to stop this awful practice. 

My Bella was a puppymill dog and she was very aggressive and dominant until I got her at the age of six. It took A LOT of work to get her past that. And she was used to breed despite the fact that she was NOT to breed standard at all.


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## michelle robison (Nov 22, 2015)

Dorothy's Mom said:


> The whole puppymill market makes me sick. It really saddens me when I hear of ANYONE breeding in such horrid conditions just for profit. Thank you for being so involved in trying to stop this awful practice.
> 
> My Bella was a puppymill dog and she was very aggressive and dominant until I got her at the age of six. It took A LOT of work to get her past that. And she was used to breed despite the fact that she was NOT to breed standard at all.


Thank you for rescuing Bella..
I go to the mills in south eastern Ohio.. It's sooo hard not to say anything when you see such cruelty.. They beat dogs into submission.. We go in, we get them, pay for them and leave..then we drive down the road and cry and swear in disgust..

You can't say a thing at these Amish or Mennonite mills, if you do, they never let you take a dog again. They'd just shoot it..

They deal with it, via 3 S rule.. Shoot Shovel, Shut up...
Legally they can shoot, electrocute, drown or hammer them to death..IT's awful.Many we get are debarked by a rod down their throat, since the barking is deafening.

Most of the ones we rescue are so scared, we have to handle them with thick leather gloves because they bite in fear.. takes a long time to rehab some and others will rehab pretty quickly, in a couple months..
So many we've gotten are so sick, some have died within hours of rescue..

We go to dog auctions ,legal in Ohio and see back yard breeders buying used breeding stock as low as $5, most run about $20- $50 but some pure bred puppies will still go for $500, which they use to replenish breeding stock..
We try to get as many of them as we can to rescue..

I'm not down on breeders..it's just that I know where many byb's in our area get their dogs.. Some even get them from the local pound, since they don't require spay/neuter and you can get them cheap. A lot of the BYB's here network and swap unsold pups too..

Being in rescue, byb's call me all the time to find homes for their used up breeding dogs, they're been used for breeding, not socialized so they aren't used to people,not house broke, health issues..

So sorry if I sound down on hobby , byb's.. even if they're intentions are kind, sadly the lack of research into the health of the line causes issues in future pups. We get calls into rescue from people who bought from a byb and later their dog developed serious health issues and they surrender to rescue because they can't afford to pay for treatment..

Heartbreaking for the owners who love their dog so much but can't afford to treat and never saw it coming..


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## CanucksStar#17 (Aug 17, 2013)

As I said puppy mills are terrible! Absolutely sickening!! But as I also know that backyard breeders aren't necessarily puppy mills. 

Not everyone wants or can afford pure-bred. And I know I couldn't afford a pure-bred in most cases. I've seen pure-bred puppies going from $1,000 to $2,000 a pup. I don't have the money for that! The most expensive dog I could buy would be $800. My sister bought her pup for that much. Her dog is a Australian Shepherd, Blue Heeler cross. I bought my dog who is a Border Collie, Black Lab cross for $300 and I bought my pure-bred Chi for $500. If Joey was $1,000 I wouldn't be able to afford him. The breeder isn't a backyard breeder and she was still selling him for $500.
My friend breeds dogs and you could call her a backyard breeder, but she is nothing like what people call backyard breeders. You will never see someone love those puppies like she does!! She spends every second she isn't at work with them, waking up three times a night to feed them. She has a batch of 12 right now, and she loves them so much! You should hear her talking to them, she talks to them as if they were her children. When they were born because there were so many she was waking up every 2 hours to feed them (she was alternating them with the mom 6 on and 6 off every 2 hours.
This is what I think about when someone talks about backyard breeders. My friend sells her pups for $500, she makes sure they go to loving homes, and the reason she still does this is because almost every person who has bought one of her puppies said they were having a hard time finding a good family dog from the shelters. She has a deal with everyone though, that if it ever gets to much to care for the dog to please send it back to her, she also asks for yearly updates if possible, everyone so far has been sending her updates and no one has complained about a bad dog. Attitude or genetic wise. 
That been said, I am sure there are more bad dog breeders then good. Some people are just breeding for the money. But when I think about backyard breeding I think about my friend and how much love and affection she has for what she does, giving them a good life.
Were we live there aren't a lot of dogs in shelters, I'm not sure about bigger cities or the states.

Wicked Pixie
I'm not expecting a magical fix, but I am hoping if he stops having the urge to mark as much I will be able to teach him to stop. If you think that the problem will stay then I might keep him intact. But I will not use him as a stud. I read that if the dog isn't fixed he will be more territorial, making him more likely to attack people. I'm not sure if that is true and I know that even if it is I will still have to train him to stop, but if he is fixed then I am hoping he won't have the urge to do either of them as much. He has also never been used as a stud.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

My point was that unless the marking and aggression are hormone driven, neutering is unlikely to make a scrap of difference.
Your dog isn't biting because he is territorial, he is biting because he feels threatened and feels he has no other option.
He could be marking for lots of reasons, the most likely being insecurity (neutering can make this type of marking worse) or habit.


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## michelle robison (Nov 22, 2015)

You're right neutering can help with hormonal urges which in turn can help with behaviour.

Your friend is a rarety for byb's, being that she takes good care of them..

You're right, not all byb's are bad people.. I have friends who breed because they want to help people find dogs as sweet as theirs.. I understand that..

I bought my maltese from a byb before I knew what one was..lovely home, kept them inside with the family.. all that..I got luckily they're very healthy and I kept contact with that breeder over the years sending pix and updates.. 

Then 7 years later she got divorced and left her breeding dogs with her ex husband, who died,then the kids took them for a while, neglected them, taking them only out of obligation to their father.. she didn't take them back because she remarried and he didn't like dogs..but she knew I was in rescue and would help them..

I got a call before they were going to euthanize them aged 5 and 8. I picked them up, dirty, reeking of cigarettes,they had rotten teeth falling out no vaccinations and the male, who she got later,not the father of our dogs, had bad luxing patellas.. That's why they were going to euth both since they needed extensive dental , spay/neuter and his LP..

I took them both and intended to help find them a home.. turned out to be our home,fell in love with them..

Made me so sad, I read the breeding records, she bred her every heat cycle for 4 years, never kept up with dental or vaccinations,never guessed that seeing her house..then when Bitsy the female, got too old to breed, the ex got her spayed,but no one really kept up with vet care since they weren't making money off them..

Male had really bad LP but he was 4 pounds so she used him for stud, come to find out both dogs when traced came from puppymills that advertised online with really nice looking websites.. Research showed they had been shutdown multiple times due to FDA violations..

Sorry if I sounded like I was coming down on you, that was not my intention.. Hard not to sounds like that when I see the bad and the sad of it sooo often, every day.. Rarely seeing good and caring breeders..


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## CanucksStar#17 (Aug 17, 2013)

Wicked Pixie
So is there anything I can do to get him to stop biting? I've never had this issue before since I've only ever owned big dogs and they have no reason to bite.
I'm really not sure how to proceed with this...
He usually marks if he is in a new part of the house. But he will sometimes mark my brothers boots or a coat that was left on the ground from one of my siblings. Its there something I can do about that? Like I said I watch him but I'm not sure yet what to do if when he lifts his leg, I usually yell his name pick him up and put him back in his playpen. And tell him "no" it so far hasn't worked. 
Also before we take him out of his playpen we let him outside for 5-10 minutes, when we bring him after about 10 minutes he will sometimes go to a corner of the house and poop, we have tried to take him out every 10-15 minutes but sometimes he will come back in and still do it. 

That is sickening to hear Michelle Robison! Those kinds of people make me sick!!!


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## michelle robison (Nov 22, 2015)

Rylee did that too. he'd mark anything new that came into the house.. He was used as a stud for 5 years before I got him. 
I got him neutered because he came to me with a perneal hernia which happens to un altered males.. So we had him neutered at the same time as the perneal hernia repair..
He did good in the one room for not marking but any new come sit, got squirted..
We did belly bands when he first came and took them off for a while and watched him, letting him out every two hours,but he never really stopped marking, though he did it less frequently.. He would pee on his sisters once in a while, they were spayed.

We've never had a dog that nipped or bit until we fostered Sassy.
She's done much better, though this morning she was nippy,but her sweater was pulling and she yiped a couple times,then when I tried to get it off her she nipped at me.
I finally got it off her and she was all kisses..

My other dogs, Maltese and cocker, won't even try to nip if they're hurt..


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## CanucksStar#17 (Aug 17, 2013)

Joey has never nipped me, it was just the one time with my uncle, he tried it three times in one visit. Even if Joey is in pain he will just squeal he will never bite. A couple weeks back I was taking his harness off and I guess I didn't take it off fast enough it pulled his leg, he yipped but didn't even try to nip me. I think maybe he feels threatened by my uncle. Unfortunately I haven't been home the last three times my uncle has visited so I haven't had a chance to teach Joey anything, I wasn't there then he did bite my uncle I just heard about it after.


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## michelle robison (Nov 22, 2015)

When I was visiting Sassy at the shelter, she nipped at everyone, but all of us made an effort to gain her trust..
I took her home last week so she's only had a short time to learn to trust.. She's doing well all things considered with her past.. She mouthed my hand but didn't nip.. Not sure what was pulling but whatever it was, as soon as I got the sweater off she was one happy camper..
Sounds like he feels nervous around your uncle..

Mine will avoid my father they sense he doesn't like dogs..
Dogs are smart, they sense things, maybe your uncle likes him just fine but he might just feel your uncle is too fast or loud for him.
Mine are like that with loud people, they hide..

Hopefully you can see what his triggers are when your uncle is around and it will help


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## CanucksStar#17 (Aug 17, 2013)

Joey doesn't get near my one brother because my brother hates him. Thankfully Joey has never tried to hurt my brother he just doesn't like him and is quite scared of him, and will run away if he gets near.
My uncle LOVES dogs! He isn't able to have one because my aunt it allergic to fur. But as I mentioned earlier he is quite loud and has a lot of fun so maybe that is why Joey doesn't like him. I'll work with him and hopefully teach him that nipping at a threat isn't cool.

Sassy sounds like she had a tough past. I feel for dogs like that! Thankfully she found you


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Not ALL AKC breeders are good. Unfortunately, I got my little Bonnie from a 'wonderful' breeder, recommended highly by another really good breeder. (well known in dog show world) I was sent pictures of the litter at 4 weeks. 2 females and 2 males. I chose the one I wanted. I assumed that come 12 weeks we would start airline requests. (she was on the west coast, I'm in Joliet IL) Well, she kept putting me off, I paid her what she asked, and finally she sent her with another dog to StLouis airport to the aforementioned breeder. She was 17 weeks old. She is the most shy, anxious dog I have owned. She prefers her crate and only comes out occasionally. Doesn't want much to do with anyone. Is OK with dogs. She has such a short muzzle (show dog?) that she has breathing problems when she eats or gets really upset. I socialized her well. She went to puppy school, and a dog camp out east. I could not really train her, since she doesn't like to be touched. I have tried clicker training, she is afraid of the clicker and me being close to her. The breeder never gave me her date of birth, never registered the litter, never gave me any medical records??? She would not answer my e-mails, nor answer my phone calls. I finally, after a year, quit trying. Bonnie is in her forever home, and I love her dearly, that is all that really counts. Just sayin' not all AKC breeders are good. I know that this lady is not one of the good ones!


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## michelle robison (Nov 22, 2015)

susan davis said:


> Not ALL AKC breeders are good. Unfortunately, I got my little Bonnie from a 'wonderful' breeder, recommended highly by another really good breeder. (well known in dog show world) I was sent pictures of the litter at 4 weeks. 2 females and 2 males. I chose the one I wanted. I assumed that come 12 weeks we would start airline requests. (she was on the west coast, I'm in Joliet IL) Well, she kept putting me off, I paid her what she asked, and finally she sent her with another dog to StLouis airport to the aforementioned breeder. She was 17 weeks old. She is the most shy, anxious dog I have owned. She prefers her crate and only comes out occasionally. Doesn't want much to do with anyone. Is OK with dogs. She has such a short muzzle (show dog?) that she has breathing problems when she eats or gets really upset. I socialized her well. She went to puppy school, and a dog camp out east. I could not really train her, since she doesn't like to be touched. I have tried clicker training, she is afraid of the clicker and me being close to her. The breeder never gave me her date of birth, never registered the litter, never gave me any medical records??? She would not answer my e-mails, nor answer my phone calls. I finally, after a year, quit trying. Bonnie is in her forever home, and I love her dearly, that is all that really counts. Just sayin' not all AKC breeders are good. I know that this lady is not one of the good ones!


You're so right AKC doesn't insure quality or even pure bred..It relies on the honesty of the person filling out the form and AKC doesn't fact check anything..
I'm so sorry you went through this, lucky for Bonnie that you are a wonderful chi mamma and you take good care of her..


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## michelle robison (Nov 22, 2015)

Sassy had a raw deal for sure at least 8 different homes in a year, not including the shelter and mine...
Some dogs are skittish with loud noises or people, my cocker spaniel Amber is that way.. When I get nippy abused mill dogs,I get them settled in and if they nip,I tell them "no" sternly and then ignore them for a while, they so want to please that they will come back and be calmer..
My father is a loud person bousterous person and all my dogs avoid him, makes them nervous because his hands are always going.
My dogs also avoid my step son, even though he hasn't done anything to them, he's got a bad temper and he's beaten his own dogs in the past so they sense he's off balance..
Step son is so unstable that I've taken three of his dogs and rehomed them through rescue to save them from him..


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## Momo (Nov 9, 2015)

I think you just answered your own question when you said 'especially if he's in a new part of the house'. The problem is that he doesn't also see the new areas of the house as also belonging to his den, therefore he marks them. I read the advice for puppies is to put a bed in every room. (I don't put one in the bathroom though, just leave the door closed).

My dog is 7 months old now and he has a crate in the living room area adjoining the kitchen and dining room. I thought that was good enough, but I found he marked the curtains in the dining room. After I put a bed right there he stopped! I know this works because I went to put it in the laundry and forgot to put it back right away. After a few days it was re-marked. Once the bed was back it didn't happen again.


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## jbtartell (Mar 3, 2013)

I found with several of my males over the years that were bad markers,lol with in about 6 months(it varies) the marking slowly stopped.. I believe neutering does help. my new rescue jojo is the worst I have seen.. I recently had some great advice. male wraps for family time. the idea is that when they hike their leg and pee they get wet and do not like it and I tried it and found it to be true.. he lifted is leg and it was sooo funny cause it was like he jumped and forgot about the hiking.. soo not during out in house family time he has to have on his wrap.. as for puppy pads no they dont stink and it is fairly easy to train them to use it..mine do. even new jojo. just remember not to give them free roam of house 24/7. they should have their own area crate or bathroom with baby gate,for when your attention is elsewhere. and only make them wear male wrap during family time not all the time..I put puppy pad in bathroom that they are in when outa crate time and when I have to leave for a period of time,, so they have a place to potty.. it works for me..I love the male wraps though.. they make things alot simpler.. my jojo will be neutered sometime in January. I have to let him get his health back as he was abused by a puppy mill and starved. another week he would have been dead. and he about died on me after I got him. some puppy mills are awful.both of my chis are rescues from bad puppy mills.. but I did know an man and woman who had one and they were 2 of the nicest people u could meet. and every one of their dogs were well taken care of and loved. they only bred to sell to make ends meet.and they did not breed any one female over and over.. back to back.. so she had time to recover before her next litter. it is sad how some people can give others bad reputations by being awful. good luck and feel free to pm me if you have any questions about what advice I gave you.. or anything at all, i hope it has helped..


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