# MINIMAL VACCINE FOLKS: Missed 3rd Puppy Shot. What Now??



## Jayar

Hi everyone,

Question here specifically for the holistic/minimal vaccine folks:

I missed our puppy's 16-week Parvo & Distemper. Bad me. She's had 2 shots, the first the breeder did at 8 weeks, and then her 12-week Parvo & Distemper. She has not had any vaccine after she turned 16 weeks.

HOWEVER, we live right smack downtown in the largest city in Canada. Once our vet gave us the go ahead, she's been out and about on the streets and in the parks. If there's Parvo anywhere, there's Parvo EVERYWHERE. So, she has certainly come into contact with it this year. Therefore, it is highly, highly unlikely that she isn't already immune. I suppose that it's possible, though.

Given what I know about how vaccines work (that is, that they're not a cumulative "medication" but rather we give a series to ensure puppies are protected as soon as their maternal antibodies wane) and given that something like 94% of puppies are immunized by 12 weeks (with the 16-week vaccine being largely redundant for most puppies) I am questioning whether I should give the third vaccine.

What would you do? Would you assume she's received all the benefit of vaccinating from her first/second shot, and just boost at 1 year from the date of her last Parvo & Distemper? Would you do a vaccine titre test for Parvo & Distemper, and vaccinate only if there is no antibody response shown? Or would you give the third shot and not think twice?

Our dogs are so tiny, and each unnecessary vaccine is a lot of junk to be putting into their system if you subscribe to the "vaccines are toxic" theories, as we do.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Zorana1125

This is something I am really passionate about bc my first chi Gino died from a vaccine induced auto immune disorder. If it was my dog, I would titer only and then re-vaccinate if the titers are negative. I also wouldn't re-vaccinate next year either. If ur puppy's titers are positive now, she should by text book definition be immune for life, however I would redo titers in 3 years. Unfortunately the rabies vaccine titers do not hold up in court here and they are required (although I haven't had mine redone for my babies). Hope this helps!!


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## susan davis

I agree. Hopefully, I can do the same with Bonnie. She got sick with the last puppy shot.


----------



## pupluv168

Zorana1125 said:


> This is something I am really passionate about bc my first chi Gino died from a vaccine induced auto immune disorder. If it was my dog, I would titer only and then re-vaccinate if the titers are negative. I also wouldn't re-vaccinate next year either. If ur puppy's titers are positive now, she should by text book definition be immune for life, however I would redo titers in 3 years. Unfortunately the rabies vaccine titers do not hold up in court here and they are required (although I haven't had mine redone for my babies). Hope this helps!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


This is what I would do too. Although I do get rabies because we get fined regularly if we don't. But I don't think you need rabies in Canada. So I'd just get titers. Then in a few years, repeat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


----------



## Jayar

Thanks guys. Zorana sorry to hear about Gino. :-(

Does anyone know approximately how much Parvo & Distemper vaccine titres should cost? Comparable to vaccine? Hundreds? Hundreds and hundreds? I need to know what to prepare my husband for so he doesn't hit the floor when we go for our appointment on Wednesday.

Also, rabies is "required" but they now accept a 3-year so I guess that's better. I probably have to give Rabies later, but I am putting it off as long as I can. Ideally I won't give her rabies vaccine until we need it for travel by AIR (you can drive across the border just fine with an unvaccinated dog. Thankfully.) Our little dogs are never in a situation to contract rabies, or bite someone thus leading to a lawsuit where Rabies would come into question. Our big dogs are vaccinated for boarding/grooming purposes. We won't stick the little dogs into a kennel.


----------



## Zorana1125

Jayar said:


> Thanks guys. Zorana sorry to hear about Gino. :-(
> 
> Does anyone know approximately how much Parvo & Distemper vaccine titres should cost? Comparable to vaccine? Hundreds? Hundreds and hundreds? I need to know what to prepare my husband for so he doesn't hit the floor when we go for our appointment on Wednesday.
> 
> Also, rabies is "required" but they now accept a 3-year so I guess that's better. I probably have to give Rabies later, but I am putting it off as long as I can. Ideally I won't give her rabies vaccine until we need it for travel by AIR (you can drive across the border just fine with an unvaccinated dog. Thankfully.) Our little dogs are never in a situation to contract rabies, or bite someone thus leading to a lawsuit where Rabies would come into question. Our big dogs are vaccinated for boarding/grooming purposes. We won't stick the little dogs into a kennel.


Do you already have a vet that you go to? Titer pricing can really vary. Some places charge around $200, while some may charge $50. And if you plan on doing rabies soon, I would wait at least 6 weeks after her last shots.

There is a really great book called "scared poopless" about holistic dog care and its so informative and cute. It's written from the point of view of the author's maltese. She addresses lots of topics like food, vaccines, spaying/neutering, surgery, ect. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## pupluv168

At my vet, titers were about 150% the price of vaccines. But you don't get them every year, so in reality they end up being cheaper. It depends though, I lived in a rural area. Toby is just 1 year old so he isn't due for titers for a few years since he had all his puppy shots. 

We have the 3 year rabies here too. I fun it horrible that some vets recommend the 1 year vaccine when it is literally the same dose of medication- then the dog ends up with 3x the vaccine in his system.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


----------



## Jayar

Zorana, our vet is one of the oldest/most famous Holistic Vets in the city. This means we don't have to fight to ONLY do Parvo & Distemper instead of those horrid multi-way vaccines. On the flip side, it might mean we pay a premium. So we shall see. I will call around for prices on Monday. At some point, though, once you get charged all the "new client" fees to go somewhere else, it starts to add up. So I am sincerely hoping our vet offers vaccine titres for just a small premium over vaccines themselves. I will even pay double! LOL


----------



## KrystalLeigh

Do you live in Toronto? Just curious because you mentioned that rabies is required. It's not required here (close to Vancouver). I didn't know that dogs don't need the rabies vaccine when driving across the border!


----------



## Zorana1125

Jayar said:


> Zorana, our vet is one of the oldest/most famous Holistic Vets in the city. This means we don't have to fight to ONLY do Parvo & Distemper instead of those horrid multi-way vaccines. On the flip side, it might mean we pay a premium. So we shall see. I will call around for prices on Monday. At some point, though, once you get charged all the "new client" fees to go somewhere else, it starts to add up. So I am sincerely hoping our vet offers vaccine titres for just a small premium over vaccines themselves. I will even pay double! LOL


That's great that you see a holistic vet! I used to see one 1.5hrs away for Gino but she was so crazy expensive, 15 min visits for $80, initially physical exam $200! So now that I have 3 dogs I can't afford her, but my vet is open to holistic and traditional medicine, so she lets me do titers and things like that. But I did have a hard time finding the single and bi-valent vaccines, I eventually did tho! 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Jayar

KrystalLeigh, yep we are in Toronto now. We used to live in Vancouver a few years ago, and Calgary for a year sandwiched in there too. Calgary was the best place for expenses. Horse/farm vets are cheaper, less tax... Sigh. Ontario city vets are brutal, and there is HST on everything.

Just to be clear, Rabies IS required to cross the border, 3+ months of age. But neither I nor anyone I know has ever been asked to show proof of Rabies when crossing by car. So I do and will continue to "forget" our documentation. If I am ever turned away, I'll go grab lunch and pick a new line on the next time through in a couple of hours.

I will only get my puppy's Rabies when either necessitated by air travel, or, I guess boarding/grooming (though I avoid both) because I suppose if your dog bites someone you have to produce proof of Rabies or else they may theoretically destroy your dog just to test their brain tissue. People trump pets if there is any discrepancy on Rabies.


----------



## Brodysmom

You can titer for rabies. There's only a few labs that do it. Ours was done at K-State (Kansas State University) and was about $200. Expensive. But since Brody had a mild reaction, he is exempt from the rabies shot now. I carry a copy of the titer with me (one copy in the car, one in my purse) and if God forbid, anything bad would happen, I would have 'proof' of vaccination via titer.


----------



## Zorana1125

Brodysmom said:


> You can titer for rabies. There's only a few labs that do it. Ours was done at K-State (Kansas State University) and was about $200. Expensive. But since Brody had a mild reaction, he is exempt from the rabies shot now. I carry a copy of the titer with me (one copy in the car, one in my purse) and if God forbid, anything bad would happen, I would have 'proof' of vaccination via titer.


My vet said that I could titer but if (which would never happen) one of my dogs bit someone and they took me to court, the titers would mean nothing, which stinks bc I hate the rabies vaccine. Lola and mojo will be due next year but I'm thinking of skipping it 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


----------



## pupluv168

Zorana1125 said:


> My vet said that I could titer but if (which would never happen) one of my dogs bit someone and they took me to court, the titers would mean nothing, which stinks bc I hate the rabies vaccine. Lola and mojo will be due next year but I'm thinking of skipping it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


In Florida, if your dog bites someone having titers only is like having nothing- the quarantine, investigation, potential euthanasia and narcropsy still apply. And my county fines those without vaccine. It's very unfair- I'm will to pay for the titer! So I do the three year vaccine and try to stretch it as much as possible. I don't know what North Carolina law is, but I figure I'm safe. Toby got a one year rabies (in Florida the first dose has to be one year) and e will be due in April. I will get him the three year vaccine unless I can get definitive proof that titers are okay. None of my dogs have ever has a reaction so as long as that continues I'm comfortable with all titers except rabies. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


----------



## Brodysmom

I think it depends on the court system. I can't imagine a court system that would take a bite from a chihuahua, NOT accept that a titer is proof of immunity, hold the dog and possibly euthanize it. I just don't think that is realistically a threat. Therefore, I titer, and I have a valid reason from the vet not to ever give rabies again. 

I realize everyone has to do what they are comfortable with.


----------



## Jayar

Just to update you all, her Parvo & Distemper vaccine titres were positive, so NO third puppy shot required! Yay!

Now to get Rabies sometime in the future, then titre for that next year...


----------



## KrystalLeigh

Jayar said:


> Just to update you all, her Parvo & Distemper vaccine titres were positive, so NO third puppy shot required! Yay!
> 
> Now to get Rabies sometime in the future, then titre for that next year...


Great news! Do you titer one year after rabies vaccine? Just wondering because we didn't do a booster with Odie and it's definitely been a year now.


----------



## Jayar

I haven't decided yet whether we will boost or titre for Parvo, Distemper, AND Rabies. Our vet offers titres for all three, so we could titre. My understanding is if she has a positive antibody titre at the time we'd ordinarily boost, it REPLACES the need for the boost. On the other hand, even the minimal vaccine protocols recommend a 1 year booster. So I am a bit confused there. Why don't they just recommend a titre at 1 year?

My gut would say, though, that if Odie is showing a positive antibody response, she doesn't need another vaccine. I am curious to hear others' responses.


----------



## KrystalLeigh

Jayar said:


> I haven't decided yet whether we will boost or titre for Parvo, Distemper, AND Rabies. Our vet offers titres for all three, so we could titre. My understanding is if she has a positive antibody titre at the time we'd ordinarily boost, it REPLACES the need for the boost. On the other hand, even the minimal vaccine protocols recommend a 1 year booster. So I am a bit confused there. Why don't they just recommend a titre at 1 year?
> 
> My gut would say, though, that if Odie is showing a positive antibody response, she doesn't need another vaccine. I am curious to hear others' responses.


Yes, hopefully someone can give us some insight. I actually did do all of the one year boosters (although I know a lot of people don't), just not rabies. Her vet asked about our activities and he wasn't concerned with her not getting the rabies shot because she's always with us. We haven't had any titers done yet. If it's recommended though I definitely will! Oddly enough, my cousin was bit by a rabid bat and it was the first confirmed human bite in that city in 30 years. 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


----------

