# ~Swimming in the tub~



## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

As you know Bella has grade 4 LP in her left knee. I am not 100% decided on the surgery, 
but leaning towards YES. I have started a savings account for her, in case we choose to 
go ahead with it. I have her on Glucosamine, Chondroitin, Fish oil and Calcium. She gets 
full leg & thigh massages, we do short but frequent walks to help her strengthen her leg 
muscles and now have tried a little swimming in the tub. She did very well, but I'd like 
to buy her a tiny life jacket, I think it will slow her down a bit and make swimming a 
bit less stressful and easier for her. Here is a little video of our first attempt. 










And a couple of cute pictures. 


Rub a dub dub little Bella's in the tub. :duckie:










Sweetie pie had a bath afterwards...all clean!










Ohh this water tastes good ma!













ps: I've spoken to a few of you on here about LP surgeries and your experience has helped, 
if there is anyone else who went through it with their dog or chose not to, please don't 
be shy to share your experience and opinion. I'm reading and taking it all in.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Holy smokes is she adorable! She is so cute swimming to the side of the tub and pawing to try and escape. "Mama, pwease help me! Dis water is cold!" LOL. And I love that Rocky was trying to help her escape, he is such a concerned big brother 

She certainly seems like she's a good swimmer, but I agree that a life jacket may be a good investment if you are going to do that often. 

I cannot get over how little she is!!! She looks tiny in the tub!


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

pupluv168 said:


> Holy smokes is she adorable! She is so cute swimming to the side of the tub and pawing to try and escape. "Mama, pwease help me! Dis water is cold!" LOL. And I love that Rocky was trying to help her escape, he is such a concerned big brother
> 
> She certainly seems like she's a good swimmer, but I agree that a life jacket may be a good investment if you are going to do that often.
> 
> I cannot get over how little she is!!! She looks tiny in the tub!



Oh yes Rocky is the big protector. He is always looking out for her, he's a
good boy. He also loves to lick the water off everyone who comes out of a
bath or shower, us and the dogs, so he waits until we are done and then
sneak attacks with lots of licks! After seeing her in the tub today I decided
a life jacket would make things a bit easier on her, yet she'll still get the
benefits of swimming. I wonder if they make them in her size!  Will check
it out online.


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## elaina (Jul 1, 2008)

awww. i loved watching the video and the bath pics ! what a little sweetheart she is


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

Rocky is too funny, checking out what Bella's doing in the tub. Oh man, what I wouldn't give to have a bath tub like that! Mine is terrible, and having a bath actually hurts my back. 

Just wanted to add that we have the smallest size of life jacket for Odie in the Outward Hound, and she's probably approaching 5 pounds. Hopefully someone else knows of one that carries an XXXS!


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

elaina said:


> awww. i loved watching the video and the bath pics ! what a little sweetheart she is


Thank you! 





KrystalLeigh said:


> Rocky is too funny, checking out what Bella's doing in the tub. Oh man, what I wouldn't give to have a bath tub like that! Mine is terrible, and having a bath actually hurts my back.
> 
> Just wanted to add that we have the smallest size of life jacket for Odie in the Outward Hound, and she's probably approaching 5 pounds. Hopefully someone else knows of one that carries an XXXS!



Oh you like it? I designed it all myself! Picked out the tiles and everything. 
I find it very sexy, lol. My previous tub was so ancient and scary looking even
my baby brother did not want to use it when he came over for sleepovers, lol.
He was like "It's ok I don't need a shower, I'm clean, I'll wait until home" haha,
this is after a 7 hour hike with my hubby and the dogs..."clean" yeah right!
Just scared of my tub! :lol: I'll find a picture of it for you. 

And yes Bella would need some kind of xxs or xxxs.


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

Oh you like it? I designed it all myself! Picked out the tiles and everything. 
I find it very sexy, lol. My previous tub was so ancient and scary looking even
my baby brother did not want to use it when he came over for sleepovers, lol.
He was like "It's ok I don't need a shower, I'm clean, I'll wait until home" haha,
this is after a 7 hour hike with my hubby and the dogs..."clean" yeah right!
Just scared of my tub! :lol: I'll find a picture of it for you. 

And yes Bella would need some kind of xxs or xxxs.[/QUOTE]

I'm expecting this tub to look exactly like mine! Haha, I hate it! I'm waiting until we have enough money to re-do the whole bathroom. 

BTW, Odie has the XXS.


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## OzChi (Oct 26, 2011)

> Oh yes Rocky is the big protector. He is always looking out for her, he's a
> good boy. He also loves to lick the water off everyone who comes out of a
> bath or shower, us and the dogs, so he waits until we are done and then
> sneak attacks with lots of licks!


Haha! Axle does exactly the same thing, it's kinda gross, especially when he licks between my toes, but also very cute.

Bella is such a cutie pie and she's looking so much better. All that time you're putting in with her is paying off!


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

Bella gets cuter and cuter every day!!!! Are you seeing any symptoms of the LP? I only know of other foster homes who have had chis go through the surgery so they are only with the dogs for 3-6 months post op but generally people seem to report that once they are recovered the dogs are much better off- although I have not seen it myself. I can imagine it is a lot of research to take in, but I am sure you will weigh all your options and make the best decision for her.

Also I love the outward hound medium I have, but the xxs didn't fit around Kerri's neck, but then the xs was way too big, she weighs almost 6lbs. My favorite brand carries life vests in xxsmall, but they are a little bit on the pricey side- K-9 Float Coat You might have better luck with more of a coat type jacket though.


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## nabi (Nov 25, 2004)

How cute is that and so good for her legs to build up the muscles..
Bellas l/jacket is xs and there was a xxs available....


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## Chi Nation (Mar 7, 2012)

She is so funny! She is so small! A natural swimmer


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

Sorry, LS, she looks terrified to me. Even if you just fill up the tub to waist high so she has to walk through the water will help her knee. Maybe having a lifejacket will help. And Rocki, being a Basenji, is wondering whet the heck she is doing in water. lol Most Basenjis hate water with a passion.


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## proudpeyotemama (Feb 20, 2012)

I can not get over how absolutely adorable she is!!!!!!!!!! Ahhh.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

Sooo sweet!! Have you thought about putting Chanel in the bath with her, that may just take away all the stress element altogether and make it a bit of fun for them both?


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## LBChi (Mar 12, 2012)

She is a natural! I love how her sister and brothers were checking it out too! She is really improving by the day! You must be very proud!


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

Thank you girls.  There is no doubt she was nervous at times, which is why 
I think the life jacket will help. She is a good swimmer, for a first time she did
great. Thanks for the life jacket link, I'm off to check it out now. Price is not
really a factor as long as it fits and helps Bella. 


Oh and Kathleen, what is the brand name of the life jacket you are talking
about?


Krystal, here is a link, I made an ugly bathroom thread for you! haha 
http://www.chihuahua-people.com/general-chat/70729-~bathroom-pics~.html#post959922


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

doginthedesert said:


> Bella gets cuter and cuter every day!!!! Are you seeing any symptoms of the LP? ...



Sorry, forgot to answer you. 

The symptoms I see is a bowlegged walk, that is all. She does not show any
pain, she never limps or skips. BUT the reason I'm considering surgery is that
I'm afraid it will get worse with time and might affect the second knee and
eventually her spine.


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## Blondie87 (Jan 10, 2011)

Aww... so sweet. my girls just try to get out as soon as they get in. 

I was contemplating surgery for Izzie too when I was told she was a 3 at 7 months old (joint always out, but could pop it back in, but it popped right back in again) but thankfully she got better as she got older. She is now like a 2ish the vet said. Joint is out, but she can get it to luxate pretty easily. She has never acted like she was in pain either.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

doginthedesert said:


> Also I love the outward hound medium I have, but the xxs didn't fit around Kerri's neck, but then the xs was way too big, she weighs almost 6lbs. My favorite brand carries life vests in xxsmall, but they are a little bit on the pricey side- K-9 Float Coat You might have better luck with more of a coat type jacket though.



 The xxs is 13-17" girth, Bella's is only 8" at the widest part.


Thank you though.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

Blondie87 said:


> Aww... so sweet. my girls just try to get out as soon as they get in.
> 
> I was contemplating surgery for Izzie too when I was told she was a 3 at 7 months old (joint always out, but could pop it back in, but it popped right back in again) but thankfully she got better as she got older. She is now like a 2ish the vet said. Joint is out, but she can get it to luxate pretty easily. She has never acted like she was in pain either.



I'm so happy for Izzie, that's really great. 
Did you do anything special other than keep her slim?

I know grade 4 will not reverse itself, but still curious about what helped Izzie.


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## LBChi (Mar 12, 2012)

~LS~ said:


> The xxs is 13-17" girth, Bella's is only 8" at the widest part.
> 
> 
> Thank you though.



OMG she is tiny!!


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

OH MY GOODNESS! I LOVE THIS! I would love to see her with a little life jacket on! To die for, I'm sure!


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

LBChi said:


> OMG she is tiny!!


If you only knew. Tiniest dog I've ever seen. Everyone in the house walks on
tippy toes now, making sure we don't step on Bella who loves to follow right
behind our feet.






rms3402 said:


> OH MY GOODNESS! I LOVE THIS! I would love to see her with a little life jacket on! To die for, I'm sure!


If or should I say WHEN I find a tiny one to buy I will post pics.


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## OzChi (Oct 26, 2011)

> The symptoms I see is a bowlegged walk, that is all. She does not show any
> pain, she never limps or skips.


I'm so puzzled about Chloe. She skips all the time and has this weird eggbeater gait in her back legs, her legs go around instead of back and forth. But I had the vet check her out and she said her patella's are 100% fine, she could not get them to move out of the socket at all. She could also see her hips on her stomach x-ray and said they looked normal although she could see the evidence of trauma on the head of the joint on one side from her fall as a 12 week old puppy - but she skips on both sides and walks weird with both legs anyway so it can't be that. I'm puzzled, doesn't seem to worry her but I know its not normal when I look at how both of the boys move.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

Sarah, maybe try a second opinion?

Mom always knows best.


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## OzChi (Oct 26, 2011)

> Sarah, maybe try a second opinion?
> 
> Mom always knows best.


True. How could she have such a funny gait without there being something physically causing her to walk like that? Hopefully I will get a different vet when she goes for her follow up next week and I can ask them.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

Was she like that from the day you got her or is it something that developed over time?


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## teetee (Aug 25, 2011)

awwww Bella! I love you so much!


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## OzChi (Oct 26, 2011)

> Was she like that from the day you got her or is it something that developed over time?


 I'd say I started noticing it at 4 or 5 months old.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

teetee said:


> awwww Bella! I love you so much!


Thank you! Kisses from Bella coming your way. 





OzChi said:


> I'd say I started noticing it at 4 or 5 months old.



See LP can be from birth or from an accident. I thought maybe your Chloe had
some kind of slight deformity, this is why I asked if it's always been like this. I
have heard of some Chis being poorly bred and having bowlegs without actually
having LP. But if you say it started around 4 months then perhaps something did
occur, maybe it affected her joints, who knows. All I know is if you think there
is reason for concern then try to get another opinion. Oh lord, we sure do worry
a lot over our little ones, don't we? 


I hope it's nothing. Maybe your baby girl was just made this way and can lead
a normal life. I know I would not wish this LP garbage on anyone, I've lost so
much sleep over it, wondering "surgery or no surgery?!"...I'd hate to put her
tiny body through it, but if it's a must then it's a must.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

To condition dogs for show in the winter months, I sometimes will have them swim in the tub. I suspend them in there by a step-in harness and a leash clipped to either side of the tub. I get in the tub with them until they are calm and then I put a yummy treat just out of reach once they realize they aren't going to drown LOL. Looks like Bella took to water just like a fish!


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Honestly though, in Bella's case, nothing you do is going to 'improve it'. She is not in pain. Grade 4 is not painful. The pain associated with LP is due to the patella jumping in and out of the groove. Grade 4, the patella simply is NOT in the groove. And there is no way to make it go back in, so you can't strengthen the knee joint because it isn't built the way it should be in the first place. Surgery also may not be very successful because she is small and the grade is so severe. They only have so much leg to work with. I would only do surgery if she seemed unable to function at a normal level  That's just me though.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

flippedstars said:


> To condition dogs for show in the winter months, I sometimes will have them swim in the tub. I suspend them in there by a step-in harness and a leash clipped to either side of the tub. I get in the tub with them until they are calm and then I put a yummy treat just out of reach once they realize they aren't going to drown LOL. Looks like Bella took to water just like a fish!



Oh I love you! You are brilliant! I will definitely keep that option in mind for us to try. Thank you.

I was just thinking of getting a life vest and holding Bella by the strap on the
top, guiding her. We shall see if I can find one small enough, no luck so far.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

flippedstars said:


> Honestly though, in Bella's case, nothing you do is going to 'improve it'. She is not in pain. Grade 4 is not painful. The pain associated with LP is due to the patella jumping in and out of the groove. Grade 4, the patella simply is NOT in the groove. And there is no way to make it go back in, so you can't strengthen the knee joint because it isn't built the way it should be in the first place. Surgery also may not be very successful because she is small and the grade is so severe. They only have so much leg to work with. I would only do surgery if she seemed unable to function at a normal level  That's just me though.



I have been waiting for you to come by and give me your advice. Because
you've been there...more than once. You know, I know that what I'm doing
is not going to reverse anything, but feel like I need to be doing something.
I really thought that we must do the surgery, even started an account for
it. But am so scared of putting her through that simply because of her size.
I'm glad you explained to me why she is not in pain, because it just made no
sense to me that she is acting so normal yet has grade 4 which is considered
the worse. It makes sense now. Anyways, thank you, you gave me something
new to think about and take into consideration.


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## missydawn (May 29, 2012)

You're such a good mommy!


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## Huly (Mar 5, 2012)

Love it LS! Swimming is the best rehab exercise since they cant ride a bike LOL


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## Lisa T (Sep 3, 2010)

Hi LS, my Bella is also swimming twice a week in the bathtub, she wears a little life jacket I got online, I'm sure you will get one no problem, my Bella is better since she's been wearing it, she swims at a more leisurely pace now instead of racing.


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## Lisa T (Sep 3, 2010)

The only address I've got for the website is Life Jackets - Buoyancy Aids & Marine Safety - Specialists not sure whether they will ship or not.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Can you get chicken feet LS? They are a GREAT source of natural glucosamine/chondroitin and most dogs love them. That would be a good chew for her with the benefits for teeth/gums as well as joints.


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## LostLakeLua (Sep 6, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> Can you get chicken feet LS? They are a GREAT source of natural glucosamine/chondroitin and most dogs love them. That would be a good chew for her with the benefits for teeth/gums as well as joints.


Ditto this!!! When we get them, we pop 'em in the freezer and dole them out as "Footsicles." ^_^ 

I never did get to formerly introducing her here as she was adopted out; but my last foster Millie had grade 2 and 4 LP in both knees. She wasn't considered a candidate for surgery because she was 6 years old and also had a heart murmur; it was a congenital problem for her, and never once did she struggle with any pain, discomfort, or disabilities because of it. She was quite a ridiculously happy pup; either napping or following around people for cuddles, always wagging her tail, and she loved to run and romp in our yard. To her, it was like any other congenital deformity; it may have looked weird on an X-ray but had no effect on the quality of her life and she certainly had no grasp there was anything "wrong". At age 6 with no change, it is likely she'll go the rest of her life never knowing there's a problem; and as someone said earlier, post-op LP dogs often have arthritis issues. Now, Millie got her second chance at life and was adopted out a few hours north of me by a wonderful woman who adores her and is home with her all the time. She's got a permit for a dog park and nobody can tell that little dog anything is wrong with her. She eats raw diet and the woman has a close relationship with her vet. If down the road something happens, they are prepared; but in reality she probably has just as much of a chance getting any other random ailment than her LP progressing further or causing her any trouble. The thing with LP is that it is not a sickness, but more a deformity; and without showing signs that it's causing her any discomfort *by now*; Bella will, IMO probably live a long happy healthy life with you without ever realizing her back legs are different from Rocky's lol. (Okay except for being like, 5x bigger, LOL.)

Oh and keep up with the savings account you started for her... tinies need lots of clothes to keep warm in winter.


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## Buildthemskywards (Jun 16, 2012)

Bless, she looks so cute. I love the way your other dog is looking at her in a concerned way. I think I may be falling in love with littke Bella.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

Thank you girls for taking the time to reply. I love hearing how much you like
Bella, she's a special girl who is very cherished. And I appreciate the personal
stories and advice, it's all super. Thank you, thank you.


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## Blondie87 (Jan 10, 2011)

~LS~ said:


> I'm so happy for Izzie, that's really great.
> Did you do anything special other than keep her slim?
> 
> I know grade 4 will not reverse itself, but still curious about what helped Izzie.


I started giving her MSM and gluscosamine, and I made doggy stairs so they would stop jumping up on furniture and our bed. I just kept her active and slim, but she is slim no matter what so I didn't really do anything there. I think 1/2 of it was her just growing. She was born with it that way, so as she grew I think it just corrected itself a little. Both my girls are very stiff legged, and both a lil bow legged. Grandma has LP from birth also... Badly bred..


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

Blondie87 said:


> I started giving her MSM and gluscosamine, and I made doggy stairs so they would stop jumping up on furniture and our bed. I just kept her active and slim, but she is slim no matter what so I didn't really do anything there. I think 1/2 of it was her just growing. She was born with it that way, so as she grew I think it just corrected itself a little. Both my girls are very stiff legged, and both a lil bow legged. Grandma has LP from birth also... Badly bred..



Well, to Bella a couch is like a New York skyscraper, so there is no way no
how that she can get on the couch, which is great for our situation. I did get
some weight on her to cover those sad looking ribs, but am still keeping her fit
& slim to make it easier on her joints, as I do with all my dogs. You know there 
is no doubt in my mind she is also a result of poor breeding. I wish more
people cared about health & temperament instead of trying to make cash. 
At least our baby girls are safe & sound with us now, right. By the way you
owe everyone some new pics! Feels like it's been too long.


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

~LS~ said:


> ps: I've spoken to a few of you on here about LP surgeries and your experience has helped,
> if there is anyone else who went through it with their dog or chose not to, please don't
> be shy to share your experience and opinion. I'm reading and taking it all in.
> [/FONT]


My personal opinion is if she is using her leg without issues, I would leave it alone and not have surgery on it. I was also given this opinion by a well respected orthopedic surgeon. His feeling is that it's an overdone surgery and if your dog is using their legs fine, it's best to leave alone. Also, every dog is also different. I was told that it's not uncommon to see a dog with low grade LP not using their leg, and dogs with higher grades of LP to use their leg with no issue, and vice versa, it really just depends.

Both of my pups have LP, and Roo had surgery for hers. I decided on it due to the fact that she wasn't her using her right leg, she would hop on 3 legs. So the surgery has helped her. My Pip also has LP, but uses his legs fine, other than an occasional skip every once in awhile.

It's a difficult surgery too (Roo did really well though) and I'd say there's also a higher chance of arthritis down the road with any orthopedic surgery. So it's a matter of weighing pros versus cons, I suppose. I'd just be leery to have the surgery on a dog's legs that was using them fine and showing no pain. Best of luck with whatever you decide for Bella. She's adorable.


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## Blondie87 (Jan 10, 2011)

~LS~ said:


> Well, to Bella a couch is like a New York skyscraper, so there is no way no
> how that she can get on the couch, which is great for our situation. I did get
> some weight on her to cover those sad looking ribs, but am still keeping her fit
> & slim to make it easier on her joints, as I do with all my dogs. You know there
> ...


Izzie is bigger, but still small at 3.8 lbs so she has a hard time jumping up too, but that doesn't stop her from trying til she gets it! We have a really low couch and bed tho, so she can get up if she tries enough. So stairs really help her keep off those back legs. 
Yeah, I need to post some more pics. I feel like it gets boring just posting the pics I take of them inside the house and stuff, but I can't get them to hold still long enough to take a pic outside! Lol. We may go to the river today or tomorrow, so I'll try to get some pics of them... 

Not sure if Bella is like this, but this is what I mean by stiff legged.. 
Normal Chi-








My girls (old pics but they are the same)

















It makes me sad for them..


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

That first picture, the dog is stacked for the show ring. That is not a natural stance...it's taught the show dogs to show off their conformation.


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## Blondie87 (Jan 10, 2011)

svdreamer said:


> That first picture, the dog is stacked for the show ring. That is not a natural stance...it's taught the show dogs to show off their conformation.


That's how they are all supposed to look tho, even naturally. Supposed to have that bend in the leg. Not just for show stances.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

svdreamer said:


> That first picture, the dog is stacked for the show ring. That is not a natural stance...it's taught the show dogs to show off their conformation.


No, a dog built right, will stand that way on their own, when they are just hanging around, most of the time


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## sakyurek (Mar 24, 2009)

I love the video .Bella is such a good swimmer


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## Kurukulla (Sep 26, 2011)

flippedstars said:


> No, a dog built right, will stand that way on their own, when they are just hanging around, most of the time


I was going to say the same.. 3 of mine stand stacked
All the time unless being lazy... Daisy doesn't but she's built badly with straight rear!!!

L'S have you tried Emu oil? I've recently been
Introduced to it and it's worked wonders for mine you can
Buy a rub you massage in and give tablets too. It's higher in omegas than fish oils and is fabulous for arthritis etc.


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## Philippa (Jul 16, 2012)

THIS IS LITERALLY THE CUTEST THING I HAVE EVER SEEN. omg. I'm going to die.

Though she didn't look like she liked the water that much, haha!


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## Audreybabypup (Sep 14, 2010)

So cute! Hydro therapy is a great choice. Very gentle exercise on the joints


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## KathyPlaskow (Jul 25, 2012)

Bella simply looks adorable. She seems to be doing pretty well in the tub.


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