# What can I expect??



## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

So Poppy has hit 6 months - and I have decided to let her have a season before she is spayed - I have thought long and hard about this, but the upshot is that she is still just 2lbs 14 oz and I really feel that she needs every bit of growth she can get and the bigger she is heading into a spay the better. The vet said he would be much happier if she had a season first due to her size. I'm not sure how much more she will grow - but every bit is a help 

The two lads are neutered - so I am just wondering what to expect 

Will they still be interested in her? Do I need to keep them away from her?
Will she drive them nuts - flirting around them? Do females stop growing after their first season? Any information and hints gratefully received!!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Ok, here's what I know from past experience with an intact frenchie girl ....

She bled like a woman! I was not expecting the blood. Bright red and dripping out of her. When I first saw it, I thought she was dying. Then when I realized what it was, I cried anyway. LOL.

(Chi's are little and some hardly swell and have very little drainage. Just telling you my experience with Piper, which would be "worst case scenario".)

She acted like a hussy! She was mainly just grouchy and out of sorts for the first few days. Preoccupied with licking herself, sighing alot, not wanting to play. Then about 10 days in (when she was fertile), she became a bad girl!  She would back up into the cat, our other dog, anything and present herself, lift her tail to the side and brace her back legs and then back up. Like BREED ME! BREED ME NOW! 

Her lady parts blew up HUGE. Like a plum, no joke. It was very gross looking. Like those yucky baboons you see at the zoo. (The swelling does go away for the most part afterward, but not completely). 

She acted like she had to go outside to pee ALL THE TIME. And she would walk a step and squat. Then walk a few more steps and dribble. It's like "marking". She wants to spread her scent everywhere so that more dogs will smell her. I'm telling you - bad bad girl! 

Over the next few weeks the swelling and drainage slowed down. I would say she was actually in season for almost a month. 

Then..... she had a false pregnancy. Even though she was never bred. Even though she never even SAW a male dog. She got very sad and moody and depressed. Gained weight. Started carrying around a toy and would whine all the time. After about a month of this, she even got breast enlargement and produced MILK! It was a real mess to deal with. Mainly because she was just so darn unhappy. Once we specialied her at the dog shows a few months (and saw she wasn't going to consistently beat the boys), she was spayed. What a relief. 

Your questions... will your neutered boys still be interested in her? I didn't have a boy, so can't answer that for myself - but from what I've read - YES. They can even TIE with her. Since she's so little, be careful (especially with Biggles) as I've heard of girls being hurt or even crushed to death by larger over eager boys who mount them and squish them down and won't let them get up. 

So yes, I would keep them away from her just to be safe.

Piper flirted her head off. It got really old. 

Piper did grow a little bit more after her season. She filled out more, her chest deepened and she got more muscle mass. Looked less puppy like. 

Good luck! I'm sure the Chi people will chime in with their experiences.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Crikey !!!!!!!!!!!! What am I letting myself in for


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Aquarius said:


> Crikey !!!!!!!!!!!! What am I letting myself in for


Oh Jane, I told you it was worst case scenario!!! She will probably be fine!! Just a tiny bit of blood, and you won't even notice!! Piper was a MESS but that doesn't mean that sweet Poppy will be too. 

But.... forewarned if forearmed. LOL.


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## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Lol now i have nothing to add  Awesome advice Brodysmum!


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Definitely no harm for me to know what might be Tracy - I tell you if she was any bit bigger she would have been spayed weeks ago!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Also, not to scare you, but remember what happened to Zoey..... she had the same advice, let her grow up and have a season and then spay her and she got pyometra and almost died. So just be aware of anything amiss during and after the season.... drainage turning to pus, soreness in her belly, fever, anything at all - and have her checked out.

Oh my... I've probably scared you to death now. That was NOT my intention. I'm sure that Poppy will breeze through her season and do perfectly!


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## rocky scotland (Jun 15, 2008)

Aquarius said:


> Crikey !!!!!!!!!!!! What am I letting myself in for


LOL oh my goodness!!! They are bad bad girls, kinda glad I have a wee boy!

Good luck Jane!


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## *Chloe* (Feb 6, 2006)

yes they can tie...my SIL has to keep her neutered male chi seperate from her intact female as they have tied when shes been in season


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## catz4m8z (Aug 28, 2008)

Yes I experienced this recently. My vet advocates one season before spaying and Adam (neutered) managed to tie 3 times despite me thinking I was being careful watching them. It only took them about 5mins alone to do the deed!!Filthy little so and so's!!LOL
At least it was only about a week when they were sex obsessed. After that Adam lost interest in Heidi even when she flirted madly with him..I dont know if thats the norm??


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## skwerlylove (Apr 24, 2010)

My pup went through a season, and it was similar to what Brodysmom went through, minus the false pregnancy and depression.

My dog's genitalia blew up huge, and she started bleeding a bit and I thought she was dying or something. (I had never had an unspayed dog before, it came as quite a shock). I called up one of my best friends who is a vet and was freaking out over the phone, and she laughed at me and then clued me in. I felt a little sheepish after that, but it was a good learning experience.

After awhile it seemed like Elliot went nuts, and kept humping the cat non stop! She would pin him down, and go to town. It was funny to watch, and fortunately she quit that after awhile. 

Also, her lady parts never went back to normal size. They seemed to just get stuck at a slightly puffier size.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Jane.. could you post your experience when she goes into season?? My vet is adamant Daisy has to have hers before he spays her (its his rule of thumb for all dogs.. but whatever!!) and i would be really intrigued to know!! I thought she was going into season the other week but apparently not!! THANK GOD!!

Tracy - you've put the fear of god up me and made me laugh all in the same post!! ha


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

Well i mine all become stroppy when in season with only small amounts of blood but they are very clean about themselves!

The boys in my house go mad but only for a wk 

I have had experience with a girl going through a false pregnancy on her first season which was frightening but she came through it fine with the help of us!
She has never had pups and she is over two now and everytime we have a litter she tries to mother them even producing milk (vet says she is fine though)

If you need help with poppy when the time comes you can phone me Jane or contact me i am always glad too help with questions!!

saoirse


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Tracy pretty much covered it all, with the addition of watch for pyo. The amount of discharge is different for each dog. Just be prepared for a mess and if you don't get one, that's gravy. They do make small bitch britches that would help. I'd recommend keeping the boys seperate, as they can tie in an instant, and could hurt her. Some neutered males could care less. Some are all over them. And some fight over the girl, so watch for changes in the boys between themselves too. The britches don't keep a tie from happening so don't rely on that if you get them. False pregancy isn't the end of the world but they can be moody. Most scary is the pyometra. That's generally 30+ days out, so be on the watch for change in behavior, appetite, any discharge, swelling, tenderness in the abdomen, fever, etc. 

Generally, from 6 months to 18 months, they might gain another 1/2 - 1 pound, depending on the dog and the lineage. Since she's a tiny, I'd think a good guess would be maybe another 1/2 pound...but that's over the course of another year and possibly 2 more heat cycles.


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## chideb (Jan 29, 2008)

Jane, this is only my personal experience, which has been limited to 2 unspayed girls with my neutered boys thru the years.. The bleeding was minimal with my chi girls, so not much of a mess. I learned the hard way that some neutered males will still purse and tie. (Actually, only one of mine, Neko! It happened only once.) The other neutered boys were not interested. I may have learned the hard way, but I learned.. now any females in season are separated from the boys for about a week. I hope your experience is not a difficult one.. Blessings, Deb


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Thanks everyone for giving me straight answers 

Saoirse, I know you are always at the end of a telephone for me - you are fantastic!! If I could fit another chi in my house - I would so take your new little ones, they are gorgeous!

Deb - a lovely response!

Buuuut!! I am seriously beginning to wonder what I am at - I suppose I am a bit scared that my vet - who has no other chis on his books is nervous of spaying her - and that scares me !!!!!

So I have done a lot of research and found another vet who I would be very comfortable with- all the Irish and UK people will know her, she was on Animal Hospital with Rolf Harris - all those years ago, her name is Bairbre O'Malley, she is a real specialist, she operates on all kinds of animals Big and little - if you look at her "day in the life" tab on her home page she describes operating on a gold fish!! She is also a senior lecturer in the largest vet course in Ireland.
http://www.veterinary.ie/

I am going to ring her tomorrow morning and see if I can make an appointment.

The thoughts of Biggles (who is about 14 lbs) tying with her or pyometra and then the possible sleepless nights with the lads howling to get at her etc etc etc really does not rock my boat!!

As ever - thanks everyone for your great posts and I will let you know how I get on with Bairbre!!!


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

Jane that Vet looks amazing was just reading up on her!!
Could you let me know how it goes with her!! 

saoirse


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Jane, I'm so glad you found this vet and are willing to go meet her and her staff. From the veterinary side, I know that surgery can be safely done on your wee one but it's especially important for you to be as stressfree from the procedure as well. Let me reassure you that a dr that can treat hamsters, rabbits, and birds is extremely qualified to perform a safe spay on your baby under 3 pounds. The anesthetic needs of these species are very specific and the time limits and delicacy of the surgery means that will translate into an outstanding vet for your Chi baby. I am thrilled that you have found so qualified a surgeon. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the vet, staff, and hospital are as wonderful as they appear online. If so, I'd definately get that spay scheduled prior to her spay....if you are comfortable with it. You may be right about your current vet. Vets that don't have a lot of experience with littles ones often hesitate more to perform any type of surgery...and with a routine one like a spay, they can postpone it longer. If I read your post right and yours is the only wee one, or one of a very few, you are absolutely correct to search for a new vet. Totally worth the drive. Best of luck to you. Please let us know how the visit goes, good or bad. I'm almost as anxious as you are. vbg


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

As long as they are experienced with the "tinier" ones, I would be less nervous. After what a Vet that wasn't experienced with tinies did to my Chancey Bear, I have a major fear with that. I'm sure most saw the pics of his "Butcher Job." Just do your research.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Jane, that vet looks amazing!! If she can operate on a goldfish, I would be confident she will do a great job on little Poppy.


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## chideb (Jan 29, 2008)

Jane.. wow, looks like a wonderful vet for your baby! Let us know how the visit with her goes. Deb


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## ilovemychiCAMI (Jan 12, 2010)

Everything Brodysmom said is exactly what Cami did! and still does....I hope this is her last week. she is driving me nuts.


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## Bellatrix (Apr 23, 2010)

Have you considered the risk of breast cancer? I googled it for you as i remember when we were discussing it with our vet i was shocked at the statistics. I felt that reducing the chance from 8% to 0.5% was worth getting her spayed before her first heat.

Bella was 3 pounds when we got her spayed and the vet said opinions differ on whether spaying will stop them growing as much. 

It is a hard decision, i hope some of this helps 

->>>

The actual stats on preventing breast cancer are as follows:

* A dog spayed before her first heat has a mere 0.5% risk of developing breast tumors later in life.
* A dog spayed between her first and second heat has an 8% risk of developing breasts tumors.
* A dog spayed after her second heat has a 26% chance of developing breast tumors, which is the same as a dog who is not spayed.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Thanks for all your advice everyone!

Yes I am confident with this vet - I feel I know her very well despite never having met her- I watched the Animal Hospital show for 5 years with her on it- she is very caring and very experienced!

I started off this thread with one decision firmly in my mind - let her have a season and then get her spayed afterwards - I was not for changing!!!!

But then hearing all your experiences, the bleeding, maybe a false pregnancy, the keeping them separate, the lads howling, the possibility of the lads tying with her, the possible change in the lads relationship if they are in competition for her, her flirting, her forever changed lady bits!!!!!!!. And then more importantly risk of pyometra and as Bellatrix said the dramatic reduction in cancer risk if she is spayed before her first heat .................. it was a no brainer to change my firmly made up mind!!

So I rang this morning - I didn't get to speak to the vet but I did speak to the receptionist who assured me that Poppy's size was no issue to them. They routinely spay animals much smaller than her. So I have made an appointment for a pre-surgical consult on Wednesday morning and if all goes well at that she will be spayed on Wednesday.

Thanks for all your posts - everyone is so willing to share their knowledge and experiences, it is a huge help to be able to work things out on here!!!!


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## Bellatrix (Apr 23, 2010)

Bella was spayed about 2 months ago, i remember i was scared but it really will be fine . She wasn't happy for about 2 days but after that was back to her usual self

Let us know how it all goes!


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Yes I am looking forward to having it all over 

I am a huge advocate of spaying - it was just her small size worried me - but really I suppose the answer all along was finding the right vet and then the surgery risks seemed far less than the impact of her having a season. She was never going to be a breeding dog so why put her and the other dogs (and me) through all that!!


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## Bellatrix (Apr 23, 2010)

I am a huge advocate of spaying too and i was unsure about the first season thing too but it was the cancer thing that made up my mind. You did the right thing exploring the options  and I'm glad you could come to a decision that you're OK as possible with.


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## Chihuahuasloveme (Jan 8, 2010)

they still will mate even though the males are neutered. They still can get stuck together so i found out LOL


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

LOL - well hopefully I will never find that out! - she has been booked in - my mind was firmly changed


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## ekeeney (Mar 17, 2010)

Oh, Brodysmom!!! I totally just LOL'd so hard at your first post. It is so true!!!


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

haha you are right - Brodysmum's post had me LOL'ing too but in a sort of very high pitched, nervous, scary sort of way


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Well Poppy was spayed today 

I dropped her in at 9.30am and collected her at 4.

She is doing great - she is walking about a little, she gave a croaky little bark at the dog next door when were coming in, and started massive tail wagging when we got into the house to the two lads!

She was microchipped and had 3 teeth removed as well. She doesn't have a cone as her stitches are all internal - the wound looks extremely neat and we are to bring her back for a wound check on Saturday. Also she's a little smaller than I thought they weighed her at 2lbs 10.

What they told me about the anaesthetic - was that they gave her a minimum amount of anaesthetic just to cover her while they put the tube down her throat - after that it was just gas which meant that as soon as the procedure was over she was awake again. They gave her a painkilling injection prior to and during the op.

So she really is quite lively considering what she's been through - just a little tired. She already ate a little at the vets. Just keeping her quiet and the lads a bit away from her;

Amazingly the two lads are being extremely sypathethic to her - they just know 

Once again everyone thank you so much for all the information you gave me on this thread


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

What a relief that Poppy is home and safe and sound. I'm so happy to hear this good news.


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## Terri (Aug 21, 2009)

Am so pleased everything went well Jane and Poppy is doing well.
How cute that the boys are acting that way too, i do think they know aswell, bless them. xxx


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

I'm so happy to hear Poppy is doing so well!  Speedy recovery baby girl!


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

Wow Jane she is smaller than i thought!!

So glad she is back home now with you and your family she will soon be all better!!!!!!

Saoirse


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## *Chloe* (Feb 6, 2006)

glad shes home and doing well


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Thanks guys  I am thrilled to have it over with and to see her so well!!


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## rache (Nov 10, 2009)

Shes a tiny little thing! So pleased shes doiing great. xx


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## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

I am so happy that she is over this. How great of you to find this other vet, get the appointment and book her in so quickly. Hope she is feeling better soon.

girls are far more complex than boys aren't they just ??


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Thanks Rache - they had a guinea pig in that weighed more than her!! (I covered Poppy's ears up for that - she thinks she's huge!) Her size is what worried me, so it's great that it was not a problem

Yes Rubia this thread has been a journey for us - a good one!!


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## Fizzy Chihuahuas (Mar 8, 2010)

Glad to hear Poppy is doing well xx


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Thanks 

Today she is running around as if nothing happened - I am trying to keep her quiet, but honestly you would swear she had not had anything done yesterday - she's a typical woman!


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## FireFox (Jun 4, 2009)

*Aquarius* - glad to hear that your little Poppy is doing well  She is so tiny  

That's very interesting that she doesn't have any stitches, is she not trying to lick the incision? 
Did you wait long for appointment with that vet? And may I ask you - how much it was?


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Thanks Aiga!

She has no external stiches - the incision is slightly less than an 1" and she hasn't gone near it. The vet said that if she does go at it to ring them as that would indicate an infection and she needs to be seen. I was dubious thinking of course she will go at it - but no! So she doesn't need stitches out - just a wound check after 3 days.

I rang Monday morning and the spay was Wednesday. The cost was €37 for a pre surgery consult and then €210 for the spay. They also took out 3 baby teeth at no charge and her microchip was €55. I can only say that I hugely recommend them


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

She is making a remarkable and wonderful recovery! I'm so pleased!! What a relief. That is just great.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

All thanks to your original post on here Tracy - LOL!!


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## FireFox (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks Jane :hello1: Oh yes yes i meant external stitches  That's really fast then, and they didn't charge you for dental??? No way - that's really nice! Although that would be covered form insurance, it's still nice because our previous vet charged lots for Peppi's 3 baby teeth. 

Did that include pre-blood work as well or that's another extra?

Since we moved we changed vets as well, although i like our new vet but i know they don't really have experience with spaying small dogs


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Jane, I'm so happy to hear how well you liked the new vet and how wonderful Poppy's surgery went. I love buried sutures. It's like you can't even tell they had surgery..and I've not seen a one that worried at the incision site like they do with external sutures or staples. I know it's hard to keep them quiet when they recover so quickly...but she has just had surgery so keep her still. No running or jumping for a week. This seems to be harder on them than the surgery most times. vbg


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

This thread is the best advice I ever got on this forum - thanks to everyone who contiributed 

BTW - it's over two years old, and Poppy is well spayed, but the advice I got is still current!


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