# AKC Merle's in the ring?



## Ay Chi-mama (Nov 28, 2012)

I love my merle chi. His dad is a CH and his mother was CH sired, with lots of CH in the lines. Mine is very pretty, I have no idea if he is built for conformation. I don't really care right now, but anyway I went to a local show and saw a few very nice long and short hair merle colored chis. None of them did very well in the ring. Anyone have any experience showing merle chihuahuas, or know anyone who does with any success? Or experiences good or bad? I would love to hear more about, and see more photos of champions with this beautiful coat color/mutation.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

The AKC just recently OK'd merle chi's. There is alot of chi breeders who don't show/breed for merles. I think the reason is that somewhere along the line there was an outbreeding that created merle coloring. Now some judges look at merles as not desirable as the others. Some merles are simply gorgeous in my mind!


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## Ay Chi-mama (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks for the reply! The Chihuahua club of America (AKC parent club) voted down the merle DQ in chihuahua's in 2009. The AKC subsequently accepted merle as standard. I found a few breeders online, (Mahkota chihuahua's, Davishall or Tokalon, can google them.), and they show merles. I see merle chis at shows so I know people do it. Here are some old photo's History of the Blue Merle Chihuahua. It's not a new coat color, there are registered chihuahua's with merle coloring that go back 50+ years, and even older photos dating back to the early 1900's, so hopefully I can find more info!!!


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## Ay Chi-mama (Nov 28, 2012)

susan davis said:


> The AKC just recently OK'd merle chi's. There is alot of chi breeders who don't show/breed for merles. I think the reason is that somewhere along the line there was an outbreeding that created merle coloring. Now some judges look at merles as not desirable as the others. Some merles are simply gorgeous in my mind!


I have seen some gorgeous dogs too!


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## Ay Chi-mama (Nov 28, 2012)

I just found a merle chihuahua forum, I'm going to try checking on there too.


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## LostLakeLua (Sep 6, 2009)

I find that while merle is a beautiful effect, it's beauty is abused when in the wrong hands, as merle-to-merle breeding is a HUGE no-no but sadly a common practice among BYB's and puppy millers wanting to make a buck off the coveted color. There are a few great sources to information here regarding merles in the show world. Hope this helps! =)

World Bans Merle Chihuahuas, Merle Color Gene Poses Potential Health Problems


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## Ay Chi-mama (Nov 28, 2012)

I know a very reputable Aussie breeder from my training club who sometimes breeds Homozygous merles(Merle to merle.), to get amazing coat colors. Nice lady, she wins in the ring too. Her dogs are fantastic. This year Westminster awarded Aussie BOB to a dog who's stud was a blind, deaf double merle. Westminster Rewards Cruelty I don't think it's a good thing to do, but a lot of breeder's, back yard, and top of the food chain, well respected CH CH CH winners, breed for select traits that are frequently not good for the health of the breed. Short noses, unnaturally angled bodies, freakishly large heads, traits that would never occur in nature. I have friends in the conformation world. Breed clubs decide what is okay, and you can follow the rules, or get out of the ring.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

I think Merle's are beautiful! But was always too scared to adopt one bc of the sad health issues. I would never think a legit breeder would breed two Merles for color, that is so horrible, to risk the sense of hearing and sight for markings and/or color. 

I also thought that chi's having an apple head, cobby body, and short muzzle were breed standard? And that although is seems the deer-head ones are more common, these are not the breed standard? Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong?


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## LostLakeLua (Sep 6, 2009)

Ay Chi-mama said:


> I know a very reputable Aussie breeder from my training club who sometimes breeds Homozygous merles(Merle to merle.), to get amazing coat colors. Nice lady, she wins in the ring too. Her dogs are fantastic. This year Westminster awarded Aussie BOB to a dog who's stud was a blind, deaf double merle. Westminster Rewards Cruelty I don't think it's a good thing to do, but a lot of breeder's, back yard, and top of the food chain, well respected CH CH CH winners, breed for select traits that are frequently not good for the health of the breed. Short noses, unnaturally angled bodies, freakishly large heads, traits that would never occur in nature. I have friends in the conformation world. Breed clubs decide what is okay, and you can follow the rules, or get out of the ring.


This is very true. I just often disagree with what the Breed Clubs decide, in many instances. The Pekingese is another great example of exaggerated traits gone wrong. I found my niche in the Rescue world rather than the Conformation world- though I have a high respect for those who are health testing and breeding properly. Sadly I don't feel many are doing so properly, so it's a huge grey area. There've been a few discussions here regarding breeding and merles and fortunately all have been very informative and respectful, which is why I love this forum. I admit my bitterness toward the merle gene is because I currently have a deaf/blind merle girl, Eden, who was part of an unscrupulous breeding program and was in fact pregnant when I adopted her. Seeing it first hand, I suppose is just harder, and leaves the bitter taste behind; though I absolutely adore the color. I just have not to this day found a reputable breeder who has merles in their program.


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## Ay Chi-mama (Nov 28, 2012)

I was hoping to meet a few reputable conformation breeders who show merles on here! It's a bit off topic but since it came up... I love show people, god bless them, and our pure breed dogs wouldn't look the same without them. They develop a standard by which you can measure to a certainty, what a pure breed should and should not look like, act like, ect. All pure breed dogs are manufactured wholly by human intervention, for whatever purposes they were created, and not always to the benefit of the dogs. Why would you want long silky fur all over your body that needs to be constantly brushed, cleaned, groomed, and mats so easily that you will get sores all over your body if it's not properly cared for? Or that your body is deformed to the point where you can barely breath, can't mate naturally, and need C sections to bear young? All of these breeds are to standard. I came from the rescue world as well, and have seen animal abuse like you could not believe. I don't always agree with standards either, but it's not up to me. The merle color gene is pretty benign to me if the breeder is knowledgeable, responsible, focus on good health, and testing, and make sure ALL of their dogs have loving forever homes. Especially after dealing with more than one bull terrier(And one Cairn!) with rage seizures, a doberman and a mini aussie with wobblers, and a whole slew of other heart breaking genetic disorders that slowly kill, cripple, or shorten a dogs life. I would take the rare cases of blind/ and or deaf dog that comes from irresponsible breeding(You would know at birth btw. It doesn't come up later.), that can still have a good life any day. Maybe because I have trained blind and deaf dogs that had no idea what they were missing, and were just as capable of love. I don't condone merle to merle btw, and love my show friends, but I do think you need to have a love of your breed, but a little bit of a god complex to be a conformation breeder. No disrespect intended, and just in my humble opinion.


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## Ay Chi-mama (Nov 28, 2012)

LostLakeLua said:


> This is very true. I just often disagree with what the Breed Clubs decide, in many instances. The Pekingese is another great example of exaggerated traits gone wrong. I found my niche in the Rescue world rather than the Conformation world- though I have a high respect for those who are health testing and breeding properly. Sadly I don't feel many are doing so properly, so it's a huge grey area. There've been a few discussions here regarding breeding and merles and fortunately all have been very informative and respectful, which is why I love this forum. I admit my bitterness toward the merle gene is because I currently have a deaf/blind merle girl, Eden, who was part of an unscrupulous breeding program and was in fact pregnant when I adopted her. Seeing it first hand, I suppose is just harder, and leaves the bitter taste behind; though I absolutely adore the color. I just have not to this day found a reputable breeder who has merles in their program.


I'm sorry about your dog. I looked at your pictures and she is lovely btw. She is lucky you got her out of what sounds like a very bad situation.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

There are a some here who show and breed. There are also a number here with merle pattern Chis. I am not aware of any here who breed or show merles.


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## omguthrie (Oct 13, 2009)

Ay Chi-mama said:


> I know a very reputable Aussie breeder from my training club who sometimes breeds Homozygous merles(Merle to merle.), to get amazing coat colors.


I don't think you can use the words reputable and breeding homozygous merles in the same sentence. No reputable breeder would breed two merles together. That is exactly what the article that you posted was all about. The horror of what breeding two merle collies produced, a blind and deaf stud dog, that was then used to produce a ton of merle collies, just because every solid color dam you breed to him will produce 100% merle puppies. Disgusting. It was even admitted that he had bad movement and produced pups with bad movement and poor conformation. I would never, ever purchase a dog from a breeder that produced a double merle dog or used one as a stud. 

I work in border collie resuce and we have had several double merle female pups come through rescue as idiot breeders try to produce a double merle male to use as a stud dog. To see the deformed eyes, knowing they are usually deaf and many times have other internal abnormalities; how can breeders knowingly produce that just to make a buck or to produce a "pretty coat"? 

I personally love the merle pattern. I own a red merle border collie that will be bred this spring to a SOLID black and white stud. Not white factored, not merle, not cryptic merle, but solid. She is cerf eye tested and has all other health tests done as has the male. Breeding is a huge undertaking and breeding merles is even more of a responsiblility. If you want the merle pattern breed a merle to a solid and understand that you will only get statistically 50% merle pups.

The show world is a different world. I show my border collies and chihuahua in agility and obedience and have done some conformation with friends dogs and I tell you, the agility world is much nicer. The politics and such in the conformation world are crazy! It's not always about what dog is the best dog of the day, but rather about who is handling, what they are wearing, etc. Plus conformation has, IMHO, contributed to the downfall of more breeds than I care to count. Such as the crippled GSD, bulldogs and pekes that can't breathe and can barely walk and the list goes on. 

Off my soap box...


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

I find breeders that breed Merle's to be irresponsible, based on the health problems associated. 

Here's some info about Merle's and double Merle's. Aussies have the biggest problem with Merle's, so the second website is from an Aussie website. 

http://www.picassochis.com/merles.htm

http://www.lethalwhites.com/doublemerle.html



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## intent2smile (Dec 4, 2011)

I love the merles colors and think they are some of the most beautiful animals around especially Kat's little Eden and LS's cryptic merle Chanel. I am in aww whenever I see pictures of these two stunning chis. Personally I would not ever get a merle though unless I rescued it from a shelter.
I am not saying every merle breeder out there is irresponsible but unfortunately a lot of them are which makes me take the decision not to buy from any breeder that does merles. This is just my personal opinion though. I just do not like the idea that too many merle breeders are taking and doing merle on merle breeding to increase their profits and the dogs are the ones suffering. I am not saying that the deformed dogs know any different or realize that they have anything wrong with them but I feel breeders should be trying to make sure the dogs are healthy and in my opinion breeding merles is not doing that for a lot of breeders.
I have recently been looking for a new chi and found a breeder that seemed to be a reputable breeder but said she specialized in merles. She had some beautiful merles and I loved the looks of one of them but I could not bring myself to buy it because she said she specialized in merles.


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## SkyAtBlue (Jul 25, 2010)

Ay Chi-mama said:


> I love my merle chi. His dad is a CH and his mother was CH sired, with lots of CH in the lines. Mine is very pretty, I have no idea if he is built for conformation. I don't really care right now, but anyway I went to a local show and saw a few very nice long and short hair merle colored chis. None of them did very well in the ring. Anyone have any experience showing merle chihuahuas, or know anyone who does with any success? Or experiences good or bad? I would love to hear more about, and see more photos of champions with this beautiful coat color/mutation.


Here's a lovely dose of merle champions. 
Napoleon went to the Westminster and he's my favorite, such a cutie.
AKC Merle Chihuahua Champions of Record & Champion Pointed | Fairview, PA 16415


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## Ay Chi-mama (Nov 28, 2012)

> I don't think you can use the words reputable and breeding homozygous merles in the same sentence.


Reputable, as in having a good reputation. I was using it in a context, to reply to a comment that all irresponsible breeders are backyard breeders, or puppy mills. Which is an incorrect assumption. Both examples are my case in point. Which you then took out of context. 
I also do agility, rally-o, competitive obedience, and therapy work with my dogs and fosters. I usually find kind people all over, and especially love dog people.


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## Ay Chi-mama (Nov 28, 2012)

> I find breeders that breed Merle's to be irresponsible, based on the health problems associated.


Not to be a jerk, but that's not very nice when I clearly own a merle chihuahua. Who I love very much I might add, and went(8 hour drive, hotel, and 8 hours back with hubs and toddler. + countless dollars.) out of my way to make sure and get a good one... There are pics of mom and dad on my page. Met them both. Great dogs, great breeder. She shows, dad was a CH, and his mom was her first merle from another show breeder. No health probs, I have his 5 generation pedigree. Proud of my dog, with every right to be. Although I would be proud of my dog even if I found him under a car(Which is where we got one of our foster babies. Smartest dog we ever had.). Don't make me troll on your next post. I will do it!!!


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Ay Chi-mama said:


> Not to be a jerk, but that's not very nice when I clearly own a merle chihuahua. Who I love very much I might add, and went(8 hour drive, hotel, and 8 hours back with hubs and toddler. + countless dollars.) out of my way to make sure and get a good one... There are pics of mom and dad on my page. Met them both. Great dogs, great breeder. She shows, dad was a CH, and his mom was her first merle from another show breeder. No health probs, I have his 5 generation pedigree. Proud of my dog, with every right to be. Although I would be proud of my dog even if I found him under a car(Which is where we got one of our foster babies. Smartest dog we ever had.). Don't make me troll on your next post. I will do it!!!


And your dog is very beautiful. I have no problem with Merle's in general. I have a problem with breeders that breed Merle's to each other. I in no way meant to be rude or offend you. This doesn't have anything to do with your dog. There are very serious health risks associated with breeding Merle's together. Look at Kat's Eden. She is a double Merle- deaf and blind. I think there are many breeders that breed simply to get the Merle coat without thinking of the consequences. Never personally attacked your breeder, I don't know anything about them. I'm not "trolling" I simply stated my opinion. Merle's bred to dogs that don't carry the gene can produce the Merle color without dangerous health implications. There's no need to breed Merle's together. I like Merle's, they are gorgeous! But breeding two together can be dangerous for the pups. 

As for you trolling my next post. Again sorry if I offended you. Never attacked your dog or your breeder individually. I think your dog is beautiful and obviously doesn't have hearing or vision issues. I simply wanted to educate regarding double Merle's. Your dog is NOT a double Merle. This site has lots of different people with lots of different opinions. So if you choose to "troll" my next post, that's fine. I understand that you disagree with me. Maybe the way I said it came out harsh, which wasn't my intention.

I don't appreciate being threatened with "trolling" of any kind. It causes unnecessary drama and needless problems. We obviously all love our Chis and are proud of them. None of them are perfect and neither are their breeders. 

Edited to add: in my original post, I definitely meant to say "breeds Merle's to other Merle's" not all Merle's in general. 

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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Ay Chi-mama said:


> Don't make me troll on your next post. I will do it!!!


What in the world???


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## Ay Chi-mama (Nov 28, 2012)

> Edited to add: in my original post, I definitely meant to say "breeds Merle's to other Merle's" not all Merle's in general.


Oh sorry, I thought you were talking smack about my dog! Hurt my feelings.  I wasn't really going to Troll you.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Ay Chi-mama said:


> Oh sorry, I thought you were talking smack about my dog! Hurt my feelings.  I wasn't really going to Troll you.


Absolutely not. I think your dog is GORGEOUS. I would never criticize anyone else's dog, definitely not my place. 


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## omguthrie (Oct 13, 2009)

Ay Chi-mama said:


> Reputable, as in having a good reputation. I was using it in a context, to reply to a comment that all irresponsible breeders are backyard breeders, or puppy mills. Which is an incorrect assumption.


That is very confusing. So then you were making the point that although she has a good reputation she is an irresponsible breeder because she breeds merle to merles? If that is the case then we agree. 



Ay Chi-mama said:


> Don't make me troll on your next post. I will do it!!!


I'm not sure if this was meant in jest or seriously but I think it was terribly uncalled for. If you are going to "troll on" everyone's next post that disagrees with you, you are going to be very busy as everyone has different opinions and it frankly is okay if a person thinks it is irresponsible to breed merles. That is her opinion and she is allowed to have it. She didn't say anything negative about you or your dog.

ETA: Nevermind, I see y'all have worked it out.


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## Ay Chi-mama (Nov 28, 2012)

That is very confusing. So then you were making the point that although she has a good reputation she is an irresponsible breeder because she breeds merle to merles?Yes, exactly. That's why the article I linked says "Westminster rewards cruelty.", and not "Westminster rewards awesomeness." or "How to win in the ring, with the low, low, cost of your mortal soul!". And for the record, I agree with all of you about merle to merle. Who does that? Idiots. Even well meaning ones.


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## Ay Chi-mama (Nov 28, 2012)

> I think your dog is GORGEOUS.


I think your dogs pretty gorgeous too.


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm late in this conversation & didn't read all the way through but yeah...I don't believe the issue in breeding merles is its not a natural color in Chis & was probably caused by mixing in w/another breed (that is how we got LC's after all!)...it's the fact that breeding is VERY VERY tricky & you can easily get a hidden merle. I am not interested in messing around with merle myself AT ALL though I do think they are pretty to look at. I'll just leave the tricky work to someone else who knows what they're doing!

I did see some merles at some local shows this past summer/fall. None ever did win but none really should have either. They weren't really typey at all & just not as good quality over all. Still was neat to see since I don't often see merle around.


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## AmyQ (Feb 6, 2013)

This was a good thread for me. I have a merle named Kiwi, she fortunately is a single merle and very healthy


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

Double merle breeding has now been banned in the UK in the breeds where merle is a recognised pattern - Its too risky.

People who breed merles in the US; I would hope would DNA test to ensure that they are not doing a double merle mating as one of the dogs could be cryptic. 

I'd like to know how the guy in the first link can verify that the dogs bred 50 years ago in a black and white photograph are merles??? That's a bit crazy isn't it?


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## Chihuahuaobsession (Apr 27, 2013)

I love the merle colors but I have noticed most of the Merle's I have seen have been on the larger side. My breeder told me it was because it received the dapple gene from the dachshund. They are so adorable though!!!!!!! The coloring is so unique Im sure your puppy turns heads


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