# Frustrating Ad for Chihuahua



## Bella Luna (Jan 15, 2010)

Okay, so I just got a puppy, but I randomly still search them I'm a bit obsessed..Haha. But anyways, I ran across an ad titled "Teacup Longhaired Chihuahua Puppy"..I saw the teacup and that was a red flag, but opened it up. Then I went on reading and the ad said this puppy fits in the palm of her hand at eight weeks..blah blah..but then I read in disbelief..the mom is 1.5 lbs and the dad is 2 lbs. If this is really the case, then that makes me SICK. Number one, the dad is bigger than the mom, and number two..1.5 lbs and carrying puppies?!?!?!?! WOW. Just wanted to share.


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## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Wow she seems a lot too small to breed from !!! At leats as far as we know it all went ok for the poor mum! Some people


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I find this ad very hard to believe. A 1.5 pound mom? I doubt it seriously. I bet if you went to look at them, you'd see a standard sized 5 or 6 pounder and the people would be like, "oh yeah, she weighs less than 2 pounds!" Right. ha ha. So many people exaggerate and have no idea what their dogs really weigh.


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## Bella Luna (Jan 15, 2010)

I PRAY that it is not true..You know how hard that would be in a 1.5 lb Chihuahua to carry a puppy/puppies?! Holy moley!!


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Brodysmom said:


> I find this ad very hard to believe. A 1.5 pound mom? I doubt it seriously. I bet if you went to look at them, you'd see a standard sized 5 or 6 pounder and the people would be like, "oh yeah, she weighs less than 2 pounds!" Right. ha ha. So many people exaggerate and have no idea what their dogs really weigh.


Amen! :lol: 

There is no dog that weighs 1.5 lbs. that is pregnant. Geez. That is like Jade being pregnant. 

You will rarely see any Bitch under 4 lbs. being bred. Even 4 lbs. is risky. They are just giving weights that they think they "look" like, not their actual weight on a scale. And what looks like 1.5 lbs. to some, may look like 3 lbs. to someone else, or 5, 6, 7 lbs. :lol:

Breeding a Bitch under 4 lbs, and even that size, can easily result in the death or complications of the Mother, and or puppies. A 4 lb. Mom "might" have one pup, and Mom & Pup may be fine, but breeders know that isn't prosperous in any way. Even the unscrupulous. You will see the average bred Bitch being 5 and 6 lbs. Many Breeders use even bigger. And they still say, "Mom is 3 lbs.." :lol:


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

People like to exaggerate, that's for sure. Especially when it comes to size of Chi's. I was at the vet awhile back with Brody and had this lady walk in with a large Chi. She immediately zeroed in on Brody and started talking to us. Her Chi was at least twice his size and she said he weighed 5 pounds. I was like 'UM.... Brody weighs 5 pounds." HA HA. There was NO way her dog weighed 5 pounds. 8 or 9 was more like it. I got called back before her dog got on the scale - I would have loved to have seen her face when they told her his weight!!


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Brodysmom said:


> People like to exaggerate, that's for sure. Especially when it comes to size of Chi's. I was at the vet awhile back with Brody and had this lady walk in with a large Chi. She immediately zeroed in on Brody and started talking to us. Her Chi was at least twice his size and she said he weighed 5 pounds. I was like 'UM.... Brody weighs 5 pounds." HA HA. There was NO way her dog weighed 5 pounds. 8 or 9 was more like it. I got called back before her dog got on the scale - I would have loved to have seen her face when they told her his weight!!


Yep, I see and hear it all the time. :lol: I always try to tell people that a 5 lb. Chi is MUCH smaller than they realize.


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## *Princess* (Feb 7, 2009)

why cant selllers just be truthful..makes you not want to buy again x


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> I find this ad very hard to believe. A 1.5 pound mom? I doubt it seriously. I bet if you went to look at them, you'd see a standard sized 5 or 6 pounder and the people would be like, "oh yeah, she weighs less than 2 pounds!" Right. ha ha. So many people exaggerate and have no idea what their dogs really weigh.


Amen! Anything....and I mean anything....related to size get's exaggerated. LOL


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

*Princess* said:


> why cant selllers just be truthful..makes you not want to buy again x


Because so many people want "teacups." They know that the "general public" has no clue what size relates to what weight. So they just say what they "look" like they weigh. It satisfies the minds of the potential buyer, and they make a sell. Then when the new owner takes the pup to the Vet, they find out what it really weighs. If everyone knew how tiny an actual 4 lb. mature Chi is, people wouldn't be so gung ho to have a 2 lb. Chi. The average size mature/full grown Chi within standard is 5 and 6 lbs. And many, many exceed that. 

For a bit of size reference, Jade weighs 2 lbs. No one believes me when I tell them that. I always get, "no way, she can't weigh more than 1 lb." Yep, indeed she does.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

TLI said:


> Because so many people want "teacups." They know that the "general public" has no clue what size relates to what weight. So they just say what they "look" like they weigh. It satisfies the minds of the potential buyer, and they make a sell. Then when the new owner takes the pup to the Vet, they find out what it really weighs. If everyone knew how tiny an actual 4 lb. mature Chi is, people wouldn't be so gung ho to have a 2 lb. Chi. The average size mature/full grown Chi within standard is 5 and 6 lbs. And many, many exceed that.
> 
> For a bit of size reference, Jade weighs 2 lbs. No one believes me when I tell them that. I always get, "no way, she can't weigh more than 1 lb." Yep, indeed she does.


Its a shame the general public are so ignorant.. I got asked in the park the other day if Daisy was 'one of those teacups' i just said no theres no such thing and its a money making thing going on.. don't ever buy a dog from someone who calls their dog a teacup!! 

I think Daisy is about 3lbs right now.. which would be right for her age on the chart (hmm) and on average of 2oz per week gain and she is so small it scares me when she's playing with the clumsy bigger dogs.. Yesterday she got stamped on by a labrador she wasn't hurt but could of been.. people just don't get that they are quite fragile when they're soooo teeny


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## sookey (Feb 10, 2010)

Personally what i think.........................

I am in no way saying anyone off this site does this as it is very clear to see you love all your chi's and every one of their litters.

In the end it comes down to $$$$$$$$$$$$. Here in Oz i see it all the time "Teacup Chihuahua Puppies $1200" 
I went through 100's of ad's trying to find Toby. I was drawn to the ad with him as it was plain and simple the heading was "Chihuahua Puppies For Sale 2 Female and 1 Male"
Young girls/women these days see the famous people with their teeny tiny dogs and want one. It is these buyers that are keeping the puppies selling.
I have to admit though that before i joined the forum i thought that "teacup" was actually a true term.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Daisydoo said:


> Its a shame the general public are so ignorant.. I got asked in the park the other day if Daisy was 'one of those teacups' i just said no theres no such thing and its a money making thing going on.. don't ever buy a dog from someone who calls their dog a teacup!!
> 
> I think Daisy is about 3lbs right now.. which would be right for her age on the chart (hmm) and on average of 2oz per week gain and she is so small it scares me when she's playing with the clumsy bigger dogs.. Yesterday she got stamped on by a labrador she wasn't hurt but could of been.. people just don't get that they are quite fragile when they're soooo teeny


It would be easier for the general public to educate themselves on the Chi size topic if they had more honest info. to go by. When all these breeders are selling their pups, and even adult dogs saying they weigh less than they do, there is no way people get a "real" concept of what size each actual weight is. That is another reason people want them so much smaller than 4 and 5 lbs., because they see so many "3 lbers." on the net that are much bigger than they are wanting. When in actuality, those "3 lb." pups are 6 and 7 lbs. 

I'm just using those weights as examples. It can be any weights. I don't even pay any attention to weights. I go by size. Once you get real familiar with "actual" weights and sizes, it gets super easy to gauge. 

Poor Daisy.  Mean ole' doggies stepping on her!


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## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

*Princess* said:


> why cant selllers just be truthful..makes you not want to buy again x


Because as long as idiots are buying/looking for "Teacup" puppies. People are going to sell/advertise them as this! Its sad but true im sorry to say! x


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## Bella Luna (Jan 15, 2010)

TLI said:


> Because so many people want "teacups." They know that the "general public" has no clue what size relates to what weight. So they just say what they "look" like they weigh. It satisfies the minds of the potential buyer, and they make a sell. Then when the new owner takes the pup to the Vet, they find out what it really weighs. If everyone knew how tiny an actual 4 lb. mature Chi is, people wouldn't be so gung ho to have a 2 lb. Chi. The average size mature/full grown Chi within standard is 5 and 6 lbs. And many, many exceed that.
> 
> For a bit of size reference, Jade weighs 2 lbs. No one believes me when I tell them that. I always get, "no way, she can't weigh more than 1 lb." Yep, indeed she does.


I went home this past weekend and I got to see my families Chihuahuas, who are bigger than Bella. Princess is probably 6 lbs, Mia is a a little over 5, and Tinkerbell is about 5. They each have different body structures, but none of them are huge. They are adults now, so they have a lot of muscle and are filling out, but as for size, they are still pretty small. 

I admit, before my family had gotten Chihuahuas and I have done any research on them, I did think that a 5 lb. Chihuahua was big and I also believed the whole "teacup" thing. Sellers are good at making it believeable..well except for this ad!!



Daisydoo said:


> Its a shame the general public are so ignorant.. I got asked in the park the other day if Daisy was 'one of those teacups' i just said no theres no such thing and its a money making thing going on.. don't ever buy a dog from someone who calls their dog a teacup!!
> 
> I think Daisy is about 3lbs right now.. which would be right for her age on the chart (hmm) and on average of 2oz per week gain and she is so small it scares me when she's playing with the clumsy bigger dogs.. Yesterday she got stamped on by a labrador she wasn't hurt but could of been.. people just don't get that they are quite fragile when they're soooo teeny


Isn't it scary?!?!?! Oh my, my friend has a Husky puppy and when we are together, I generally try to hold Bella, but she wants to play with her so bad and it scares me to death. I usually have to end up just taking Bella home or something because I don't want to risk it. Obviously, the bigger dog is trying to hurt her, but when they are puppies, they don't realize size very well..Well, at least these two. And about realizing that they are so fragile when they are teeny...My grandma is old..haha, and told me that she wanted one as small as Bella. NO WAY!! She doesn't have a steady hand and I don't think people realize what you have to do with the little ones. I am always worried about her sugar dropping, or her falling...etc. It's quite a job! Haha



sookey said:


> Personally what i think.........................
> 
> I am in no way saying anyone off this site does this as it is very clear to see you love all your chi's and every one of their litters.
> 
> ...


I think in the U.S. (not for everyone) but it is size. Everyone wants that Paris Hilton "teacup" dream baby..P.S. does she still have Tinkerbell? I heard she got rid of the poor thing because she got "too big" and wasn't as small to her liking, so she got another and the same thing happened? Well at least she is done torturing the Chihuahuas and is moving on to "teacup" pigs..

Anyways, I have actually seen people advertise this..
"Wanted..TEACUP, TINY, Chihuahua..No more than 2 lbs full grown"
I just want to advertise back and be like..THERE IS NO SUCH THING!!! LOOK IT UP!!!!


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

TLI said:


> It would be easier for the general public to educate themselves on the Chi size topic if they had more honest info. to go by. When all these breeders are selling their pups, and even adult dogs saying they weigh less than they do, there is no way people get a "real" concept of what size each actual weight is. That is another reason people want them so much smaller than 4 and 5 lbs., because they see so many "3 lbers." on the net that are much bigger than they are wanting. When in actuality, those "3 lb." pups are 6 and 7 lbs.
> 
> I'm just using those weights as examples. It can be any weights. I don't even pay any attention to weights. I go by size. Once you get real familiar with "actual" weights and sizes, it gets super easy to gauge.
> 
> Poor Daisy.  Mean ole' doggies stepping on her!


And the owners never ever apologies and i'm like ER HELLO SQUASHED DOGGIE.. Luckily Daisy can outrun the be ole' fat mean doggies most the time!! I wouldn't be able to have dogs as dinky as yours.. i couldn't take them out anywhere or walk them without having to put a barrier around them from other dogs.. and i live in a BIG dog town..



> BellaLuna
> 
> Isn't it scary?!?!?! Oh my, my friend has a Husky puppy and when we are together, I generally try to hold Bella, but she wants to play with her so bad and it scares me to death. I usually have to end up just taking Bella home or something because I don't want to risk it. Obviously, the bigger dog is trying to hurt her, but when they are puppies, they don't realize size very well..Well, at least these two. And about realizing that they are so fragile when they are teeny...My grandma is old..haha, and told me that she wanted one as small as Bella. NO WAY!! She doesn't have a steady hand and I don't think people realize what you have to do with the little ones. I am always worried about her sugar dropping, or her falling...etc. It's quite a job! Haha


Bella is too teeny for me too i'd be panicking all the time with her too.. LOL my daughter was premature and i didn't sleep at all the first night she came out of hospital so i really get the whole sugar thing i honestly would be on red alert all the time.. too much stress for me to take ha ha!!

Do you find all dogs gravitate to her?? All the Big dogs seem to want to play with Daisy i dont know why.. i do let her play but tend to stop when i thinking its getting too much and she gets put back on her lead and marched off!!

Im such a mean mummy!!!


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Bella Luna said:


> I went home this past weekend and I got to see my families Chihuahuas, who are bigger than Bella. Princess is probably 6 lbs, Mia is a a little over 5, and Tinkerbell is about 5. They each have different body structures, but none of them are huge. They are adults now, so they have a lot of muscle and are filling out, but as for size, they are still pretty small.
> 
> I admit, before my family had gotten Chihuahuas and I have done any research on them, I did think that a 5 lb. Chihuahua was big and I also believed the whole "teacup" thing. Sellers are good at making it believeable..well except for this ad!!


The word "teacup" doesn't bother me at all. I know there is no such a thing, and it doesn't take long for people to hear from someone that there isn't. It's not so much the word that I think everyone should get caught up on, it's the idea behind it. Young Chi puppies are *tiny* (most are anyway). These Breeders that crack me up are the ones that try to make it seem like that "their" tiny Chi pups are a rarity. Then they claim some bogus weight to add to the "teacup" ad. Then comes the pics they take by all of these enormous things. They get smart to the angles also. Put something "in front" of the pup, and the pup will seem much smaller. Or stick it in a *large* container/cup. None of that means anything. "Many" Chi pups do fit in cups and such under 10 weeks old. They will give you a weight and tell you what they chart at. That is another seller. "Ohhhhh, so and so pup charts at 2 lbs. mature." Then that teeny pup that charted at 2 lbs. mature ends up 5 and 6 lbs. grown. :lol: Or they are selling "an adult/full grown" dog at 6 months old. Pup weighs 2 lbs.!!! Then 6 month old 2 lber. ends up 4 lbs. at maturity. It's all quite humorous what they get away with. You'd be surprised what people are wiling to pay for these "teacups." Thousands of dollars. It's unbelievable. Then buyer whines and complains because someone jipped them. They go to breeder after breeder telling their "story." And another breeder cashes in on "their teacup." As long as all these myths continue, Chi breeders will cash in. Bottom line is people need to know up front that their teeny Chi pup may very well end up 5 or 6 lbs. (or bigger) mature (18 months/2 years old). If a breeder guarantees you (which I don't know any that will) a mature size, go somewhere else. And I hate to say this, but those that continue to buy into all that crap without researching first, I can't say I feel much sorry for them.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

TLI said:


> The word "teacup" doesn't bother me at all. I know there is no such a thing, and it doesn't take long for people to hear from someone that there isn't. It's not so much the word that I think everyone should get caught up on, it's the idea behind it. Young Chi puppies are *tiny* (most are anyway). These Breeders that crack me up are the ones that try to make it seem like that "their" tiny Chi pups are a rarity. Then they claim some bogus weight to add to the "teacup" ad. Then comes the pics they take by all of these enormous things. They get smart to the angles also. Put something "in front" of the pup, and the pup will seem much smaller. Or stick it in a *large* container/cup. None of that means anything. "Many" Chi pups do fit in cups and such under 10 weeks old. They will give you a weight and tell you what they chart at. That is another seller. "Ohhhhh, so and so pup charts at 2 lbs. mature." Then that teeny pup that charted at 2 lbs. mature ends up 5 and 6 lbs. grown. :lol: Or they are selling "an adult/full grown" dog at 6 months old. Pup weighs 2 lbs.!!! Then 6 month old 2 lber. ends up 4 lbs. at maturity. It's all quite humorous what they get away with. You'd be surprised what people are wiling to pay for these "teacups." Thousands of dollars. It's unbelievable. Then buyer whines and complains because someone jipped them. They go to breeder after breeder telling their "story." And another breeder cashes in on "their teacup." As long as all these myths continue, Chi breeders will cash in. Bottom line is people need to know up front that their teeny Chi pup may very well end up 5 or 6 lbs. (or bigger) mature (18 months/2 years old). If a breeder guarantees you (which I don't know any that will) a mature size, go somewhere else. And I hate to say this, but those that continue to buy into all that crap without researching first, I can't say I feel much sorry for them.


Great post T.

So here's a question for you that may help others who are looking .....  Say that someone is looking for a Chihuahua and they REALLY want a small one. Like 3-4 pounds. On the super small side of the spectrum. How would they go about finding one?


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## LDMomma (Mar 28, 2009)

UGH. I hope that's not true.

Daisy is 5 pounds. So that's what a grown 5 pound Chi looks like. Well, she ranges between 4.8-5.3 pounds. She only eats in spurts. I know. She's weird.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Brodysmom said:


> Great post T.
> 
> So here's a question for you that may help others who are looking .....  Say that someone is looking for a Chihuahua and they REALLY want a small one. Like 3-4 pounds. On the super small side of the spectrum. How would they go about finding one?


:lol: That's a million dollar question. Honestly, you have to "know" what you are looking at. And it takes thousands of pictures, surfing and asking questions from people who will be honest with you. The teenies have "traits/characteristics" that the others don't. I can spot them with just one pic. Basically, in a nut shell, a true teeny at say 7/8 weeks old, and even older can literally lay out in the palm of your hand. Similar to the size of a hamster. Not overfilling your hand. Legs, head and all will easily lay out in your palm. But here is the catch with that. Many teenies do not fair well. They may not live long enough to even get them home. So you have to know what to look for. When you get real familiar with it, you can see those "looks" of being unhealthy. It's always best to see them in person. Buying a teeny over the net is asking for heartbreak, and many Vet bills. Unless the owner can be with the teeny *24/7*, it probably won't live. This is sad to say, but many times the reason they don't even make it long enough to come home is because the breeder does not have all day and night to care for it. Their sugars will drop in the night, and they aren't there to bring them back up. And even if they are sometime it still doesn't make it. So many of them have underlying health issues. They won’t have all their teeth at an early age, so you will be hand feeding the pup quite a bit until it’s much older. When you get a pup like this, you are going to be "hand" raising it for about 6 months. After that they are usually more stable. So in a summary, a true teeny will be similar in size to a full size hamster at 7/8 weeks old. Continuing to be able to sit in your hand until they are about 4 months old. It's hard to imagine one that teeny, but I promise you they are. This size will mature out between 2, 3 and 4 lbs. mature. And when I say those weights, not the typical "size" people put with those weights. To have a 2 lb. mature Chi it will be like caring for a preemie all their life. 3 lbs. is a bit more sturdy, but still very fragile. 4 lbs. is more sturdy, but still very tiny. If you find one this size, you want to make sure that it’s not from someone that is asking 3 or 4,000 dollars. One that will have a better chance will come from a Breeder that only wants the teeny to go to a home where it can be properly cared for. They will want someone who has prior experience with hypoglycemia, and someone that will be at home. That upsets some people, but it’s in the teenies best interest. I hope this helps some. There really isn’t any exact science to finding one. It’s just something you get an eye for.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Extremely helpful post T !!! Thanks so much for writing that up. I know that will be helpful to alot of people. You should write that up into a post and then we could sticky it!!


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Brodysmom said:


> Extremely helpful post T !!! Thanks so much for writing that up. I know that will be helpful to alot of people. You should write that up into a post and then we could sticky it!!


You're very welcome! I will try to get some pics to go with it.


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Let me add a very important note to how one tries to find a small adult Chi. You look for one from a breeder who doesn't breed for small size and who keeps said puppy till close to 6 months of age. We are the smallest breed and we ultimately get small dogs, especially if you are line breeding. Those that breed for tiny are breeding from tiny dogs to start with. That's not healthy for the brood bitch nor the puppies. Puppies produced this way tend to have way more health issues that the ones that happen from a normal breeding. Find a breeder that's focused on health and temperment that just happened to produce a tiny. The breeder should keep the puppy longer. I normally place pets at 12 weeks (4 months) of age. Tinies stay till 6 months of age, just to be on the safe side. Tinies should cost more because there's way more care involved in raising them. However, they should not be excesively higher, as the costs aren't excessively higher. The breeder should not be advertising the dog as a teacup or any other such misnomer. I generally state that the puppy will be small and an approximate adult weight. I can generally ballpark it within 1/2 pound or so, give or take, but I never guarantee a size. I'm not God and something could happen to make the dog grow. It hasn't happened to me yet, but anything is possible. Believe me, I've done everything possible to get some of these pups to grow because except for size, they would have been keepers. I also don't place tinies in homes that do not have prior Chi experience, preferrably with tinies. They just aren't as sturdy as a 4-5 pound adult and can't handle the mistakes new parents make. 

I breed to the US Standard so the biggest bitch I have is 5 1/2 pounds as a matron (little heavy due to age and number of litters...and she likes to eat.) The biggest stud I have is 4 1/2 pounds. My personal preference is a 5 pound adult, however, most of mine average 4 - 4 1/2 pounds at their ideal weight. That said, I still get tinies. For me, that's anything under 3 1/2 pounds. Because I don't breed specifically for small size, mine tend to be healthier. Thank God. Hypoglycemia doesn't run in my lines and I don't supplement puppies with dextrose or Nutrical, which artificially inflates their sugar levels, causing a serious crash when it wears off. That's a huge problem with tinies. People overreact and give them a whole bunch of stuff so they won't crash, when in effect, they are causing the crash with the supplements. Still, I have to pay particular attention to how much and how often the littles eat. Even as adults. (I have a few that I've kept that are 2 and 2 1/2 pounds.) As pointed out, they wean later, eat solids later, and have smaller stomachs so can't eat as much in one sitting. Littles get free fed around here and it's still hard to keep weight on them.

Liver issues are a serious concern with tiny dogs. The liver doesn't always completely form normally as the puppy's developing in utero. Tinies are more fragile so you have to be extra careful when they are playing or even just jumping on/off furniture, etc., that normal things pets do with no problem. There's just so much more that goes on in raising little ones. 

Give me a good average 4-5 pounder any day. When trying to visualize that weight, just think of a bag of sugar. Weighs the same.


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Please don't get me started on celebrity Chis. They use them for publicity and then dump them in rescue when they get "too big" and they buy another one. PH has had way more than one Chi, although they don't want the general public to know that, and each in turn has ended up in rescue. Urgh!


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

LiMarChis said:


> Please don't get me started on celebrity Chis. They use them for publicity and then dump them in rescue when they get "too big" and they buy another one. PH has had way more than one Chi, although they don't want the general public to know that, and each in turn has ended up in rescue. Urgh!


she has her pooch mansion.. there was a programme over here where one of our presenters went and met her and stayed wiht her and made friends.. and there was lots of chi's and v v v small yorkies too


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Daisydoo said:


> And the owners never ever apologies and i'm like ER HELLO SQUASHED DOGGIE.. Luckily Daisy can outrun the be ole' fat mean doggies most the time!! I wouldn't be able to have dogs as dinky as yours.. i couldn't take them out anywhere or walk them without having to put a barrier around them from other dogs.. and i live in a BIG dog town..


Yeah, I know what you mean about rude owners. We tried the dog park one day, and it def. wasn't for us. 

You get used to dogs my crews size when that's all you have, and have ever had. I don't know anything any different. But as you mentioned, I don't take them out to places where there are other dogs. I have once or twice. Even small breed dogs are too rough for them. We tried a playdate with a 4/6 month old Weenie dog, and he kept land sliding into them. They hated it and was scared to death. I had to ask them to take the dog home in fear he would hurt The Chi Wee's. I have a few pics of that playdate. I'll see if I can find them. 



LiMarChis said:


> Let me add a very important note to how one tries to find a small adult Chi. You look for one from a breeder who doesn't breed for small size and who keeps said puppy till close to 6 months of age. We are the smallest breed and we ultimately get small dogs, especially if you are line breeding. Those that breed for tiny are breeding from tiny dogs to start with. That's not healthy for the brood bitch nor the puppies. Puppies produced this way tend to have way more health issues that the ones that happen from a normal breeding. Find a breeder that's focused on health and temperment that just happened to produce a tiny. The breeder should keep the puppy longer. I normally place pets at 12 weeks (4 months) of age. Tinies stay till 6 months of age, just to be on the safe side. Tinies should cost more because there's way more care involved in raising them. However, they should not be excesively higher, as the costs aren't excessively higher. The breeder should not be advertising the dog as a teacup or any other such misnomer. I generally state that the puppy will be small and an approximate adult weight. I can generally ballpark it within 1/2 pound or so, give or take, but I never guarantee a size. I'm not God and something could happen to make the dog grow. It hasn't happened to me yet, but anything is possible. Believe me, I've done everything possible to get some of these pups to grow because except for size, they would have been keepers. I also don't place tinies in homes that do not have prior Chi experience, preferrably with tinies. They just aren't as sturdy as a 4-5 pound adult and can't handle the mistakes new parents make.
> 
> I breed to the US Standard so the biggest bitch I have is 5 1/2 pounds as a matron (little heavy due to age and number of litters...and she likes to eat.) The biggest stud I have is 4 1/2 pounds. My personal preference is a 5 pound adult, however, most of mine average 4 - 4 1/2 pounds at their ideal weight. That said, I still get tinies. For me, that's anything under 3 1/2 pounds. Because I don't breed specifically for small size, mine tend to be healthier. Thank God. Hypoglycemia doesn't run in my lines and I don't supplement puppies with dextrose or Nutrical, which artificially inflates their sugar levels, causing a serious crash when it wears off. That's a huge problem with tinies. People overreact and give them a whole bunch of stuff so they won't crash, when in effect, they are causing the crash with the supplements. Still, I have to pay particular attention to how much and how often the littles eat. Even as adults. (I have a few that I've kept that are 2 and 2 1/2 pounds.) As pointed out, they wean later, eat solids later, and have smaller stomachs so can't eat as much in one sitting. Littles get free fed around here and it's still hard to keep weight on them.
> 
> ...


I agree with not looking for a tiny from tiny parents. Not that the parents being tiny guarantees a tiny pup anyway. They can start out tiny then end up big. A Bitch needs to be at least 4 lbs. to breed, and if under that I wouldn't trust the breeders "motives." There is NO good reason to breed anything smaller. I have touched on "genetic tinies" in a few threads here too. If they are meant to be tiny, they will be, no matter if parents are on the larger end of the standard. And chances are like you said, much healthier. But many get wrapped up in the concept that the parents size always dictates pup size.

I think it's great to see breeders keep the tinies for a longer time. That way if something does happen they are in the hands of the experienced, and not with a new owner that may have no clue what to do. I have seen even some of the smaller ones die due to "new parent" negligence. They just assume that a 7/8 week old pup will eat what it needs. That isn't always the case. And with the tinies, they don't hardly even have teeth at that age, and for many weeks thereafter. You HAVE to get them to eat. Nutri-Cal will only do so much, as you mention, peak their sugars for a short time. The regular feedings is what keeps them going. Without it, you are destined for a sugar crash. It can be a Godsend, but will do nothing by itself.

Something else I didn't mention about tinies. If they get diarrhea and vomiting, even as an adult, it is a whole different ball game than a "bigger" Chi. You can't "fast" them to clear out their stomach. Chances are they are going to spend the night (or two) in the hospital. They can go under your furniture, recliners, couches, chairs, etc. ALL their lives. So puppy proofing is a lot different. They can get in places you would never dream of and get hurt. Anyway, as you mentioned it is different raising a tiny vs. a bigger Chi. I don't think many people give much thought to how much work (and money) goes into it. It's just the "thrill" of having a tiny.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Oh, and I wanted to add that I like your description of the 4 and 5 lbers. They are similar to a bag of sugar. Tuck em' under your arm, and go. Very small. 

If you have any pics to add for size reference, that would be nice.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

This turned out to be a fascinating and helpful, educational thread!! Thanks Lisa and T!


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

TLI said:


> Oh, and I wanted to add that I like your description of the 4 and 5 lbers. They are similar to a bag of sugar. Tuck em' under your arm, and go. Very small.
> 
> If you have any pics to add for size reference, that would be nice.


I'll see what I can do about the pictures. Most of mine are stacked pictures to show conformation, not with a reference item to show size. I'll scan through my saved pics and see what I can find. Otherwise, I'll see if I can take some over the next little while. The smallest I currently have is 2 1/4 pounds.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

LiMarChis said:


> I'll see what I can do about the pictures. Most of mine are stacked pictures to show conformation, not with a reference item to show size. I'll scan through my saved pics and see what I can find. Otherwise, I'll see if I can take some over the next little while. The smallest I currently have is 2 1/4 pounds.


Awesome!! We love pics here as you can tell.


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

I know, Tracey, and I love to share them. I just hate having to use Photobucket. It's not my friend and takes me 10 times as long. :-( Oh well, I'll figure it out eventually.

Here's a few that I had in the archieves.

Atom weighed just a smidge under 3 pounds. He's on a 12" square bed with a cat toy in his mouth.









Here he's in a 12" x 18" crate and you see how much room he has.









Spice Girl never broke 3 pounds and was placed in a pet home. Here's the "traditional" coffee cup pictures.









Spice was 2 cups long and 1 1/2 cups high at the shoulder.









I don't have recent pics, but here's Kota as a pup. The first shows the size difference between him and his brother. The other shows him with a toilet paper roll at 6 months of age.

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx132/LiMarChis/Sizes/Kota.jpg

Kota currently weighs 2 1/4 pounds and is what I consider a perpetual puppy.









Last but not least, just so you can see a "big" boy at 4 pounds, here's Hooch. For size, his handler was wearing a US Size 8 Women's shoe.









I think I'm at the right number to be able to post my website info on the breeder's page. If so, I'll post a link so ya'll can go see my babies. Everyone on there is under 6 pounds. The largest, in the pictures, being Jack at 5 1/2 pounds. Punkin has gained weight since her picture. She was lean when she finished. VBG


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I loved those pics!!!! Gorgeous gorgeous babies. I think Hooch is beautiful. They all are! Thanks so much for posting those. I can't quit drooling over them. ha.


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## IheartZelda (Apr 8, 2010)

ugh!!
I absolutely hate the term 'teacup'!!!
I have a very small chihuahua that came out of two very good sized dogs.... her mom was pushing 7 pounds and dad was maybe 6 max... It just so happened that my puppy (the runt of 5) didn't grow too well like the others. She's had some mild health conditions but overall very healthy... 
I had her spayed at 6 months because there's no way I'd ever risk her life for pups. (she weighs 2.5 pounds, and is kinda tall, just rail thin)
I am constantly explaining to random strangers that there's no such thing as a miniature, teacup, pocket, or micro chihuahua.... constantly
sooo frustrating! but, if I keep only one person from falling for that hype...totally worth it.
Thanks for this thread! I feel much better now!


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Thanks, Tracey. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Hooch. He's CH. LiMar's Hoosier Daddy and has taken over his daddy's place (Bubba aka CH. Bliss Hoosier Bubba Love is now retired.) in my breeding program. He's producing some beautiful pups we hope to have in the ring when they're ready. 

I checked and I've got some more posts to go before I can post a link. Meanwhile. I'll keep working with Photobucket. Goodness, change is hard for me. I'm so spoiled to uploading directly from my computer. I think I need a bucket to beat against my head sometimes. ROFLOL 

I guess now that I'm on the forum, I'll have to start taking more "fun" pictures of the kids.


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## IheartZelda (Apr 8, 2010)

I love those pics! My Zelda also plays with cat toys!! (which just drives the cat bonkers....)


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Oh my Lisa Hooch is just lovely.. next trip to Florida i'm thinking i'd like to steal him *cough cough* You've also gotta allow for all the hair!!!!


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Daisydoo said:


> Oh my Lisa Hooch is just lovely.. next trip to Florida i'm thinking i'd like to steal him *cough cough* You've also gotta allow for all the hair!!!!


You're welcome to come visit anytime, Sara. He just preens when he's getting all the adoration he feels he's entitled too. ;-) However, we check pockets and purses before we let anyone leave the house. LOL


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

LiMarChis said:


> You're welcome to come visit anytime, Sara. He just preens when he's getting all the adoration he feels he's entitled too. ;-) However, we check pockets and purses before we let anyone leave the house. LOL


Ha ha ha you never said anything about checking shirts tho.. i can chuck him under my top ha ha


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Lisa, thank you so much for providing the pics! Your pups are gorgeous! I went to your website (googled it, lol) and talk about some little show stoppers! Absolutely gorgeous!! Thanks again for contributing to this thread. 

My babies aren't show pups, just my little pet pups. But for size reference, here goes. 

This is Chance. He is 2 years and 7 months old. The last pic is an adult pic, over 2 years old. He didn't "fill out" until after he was neutered at 19 months old. Before that he was a little twig figure like his sisters. :lol: I absolutely adore his size and shape. 

So for starters, this is Chance at 8/9 weeks old. As I mentioned, he can lay his entire body out in my palm, legs, head and all. He weighed 8 ounces.










This is him at 3 months old. He has one of those "tiny dog" toys in his mouth. Most everyone is probably familiar with that toy. It's about the size of a hamster.










And him currently. My hand is 6" long for reference.










He is just a bit longer in length than he is tall. He weighs 4 lbs. solid!


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

This is Lexie. She is 3 years old. The first pic by the cup I took last night. The Christmas cup was the first cup I grabbed. :lol:

I lost all of Lexie's baby pics in a crashed hard drive. So I can't share any of her as a young pup.

Anyway, she weighs 3 lbs. All adult pics.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

T this just shows that 4lbs of GrandadChi is a teeny tiny dog still - i just had to measure my hand to work out how big he was.. sad i know!!


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

This is Gia. She is 2 years, 2 months old. She weighs 2.7 lbs. 

I didn't get Gia until she was 18 weeks old, so I have no pics of her before that age.

Here she is at 5 months old. Everyone knows how teeny the opening is in one square of a chain length fence. It's about a 2 X 2" opening. This is her going through it. I had to put chicken wire around the fence to keep her in. :lol:











Her at 6 months old.










These were taken last night.










She is scared of the cup, sorry. 










Another adult pic.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Oh, and I just had to share this. She is a "pocket Chi." :lol: :wink:

Taken not long ago.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Daisydoo said:


> T this just shows that 4lbs of GrandadChi is a teeny tiny dog still - i just had to measure my hand to work out how big he was.. sad i know!!


:lol: :lol: :lol: Yes, GrandadChi is a tiny little toot. :lol:


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Lexie, Chance & Gia out for a walk. You can see how tiny they are compared to their surroundings. 4 lbs, 3 lbs, and 2.7 lbs.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Considering the percentage difference in weight.. Chance is a big boy compared to them... BUT looking at the photos he really doesn't look that much larger maybe just a little stockyer!!

Im ready for the dinky dot now 

Someone needs to do similar pictures for a 5lb doggie too!!!


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Sorry, I had to gather these all up. :lol: Yes, you are right, Chance's weight comes from his build, not his "size." He is similar in size comparison to the girls, he is just "fuller."

And now for dinky dot. :lol:

This is what you get with 2 lbs. Give or take an ounce. Jade is 13 months old now.

This is Jade the day we brought her home at a bit over 13 weeks old.










A child’s hand could completely hide her.










A few weeks after we got her. 14/15 weeks old.










And here she is currently at 13 months old.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Daisydoo said:


> Someone needs to do similar pictures for a 5lb doggie too!!!


It kinda depends on their build also. If they are tall and long, they always appear "larger" than the little short legged/bodied pups. Even if they weigh less, they still look bigger. It's like comparing a greyhound to a standard Chi.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

She just looks so fragile she reminds me of really prem babies! 
Dogs are just like humans you can have two women who weigh 9 stone one will be a size 10 and one a size 6 there are no rules as to why!


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Daisydoo said:


> She just looks so fragile she reminds me of really prem babies!
> Dogs are just like humans you can have two women who weigh 9 stone one will be a size 10 and one a size 6 there are no rules as to why!


Yeah, she is very fragile. She is like having a young puppy, but she's full grown (other than hopefully filling out some, which won't be much). 

Usually the difference will be height and length. Take two 5 lb. pups, and one could be tall and thin, one short in height and length and fuller. The little short guy will always appear smaller. If you are really looking for a "tiny" you want to look for the short body and short legs. That's why Chance at 4 lbs. looks so small. He is a shorty. :lol:


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

TLI said:


> Lisa, thank you so much for providing the pics! Your pups are gorgeous! I went to your website (googled it, lol) and talk about some little show stoppers! Absolutely gorgeous!! Thanks again for contributing to this thread.
> 
> My babies aren't show pups, just my little pet pups. But for size reference, here goes.


Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed my babies. I'm having fun with this thread, although it made me realize I don't have a lot of "fun" pics of the kids. Will def be working on that. You wanna see a side view, front view, and bite, I gotcha covered. Someone popping up out of a dirt pile with mud on her head, not so much. ROFLOL

And don't you dare qualify your darlings ever again! They are absolutely adorable!! I loved seeing their pictures. I get a smile from your siggy every time I see it. Winning in the show ring is great. Winning in your heart is even better. It's the best *and* what's most important. 

Let me just also say, I sooooo feel your pain with the chain link fence. These little guys can wiggle their way out of just about anything. What I don't understand is how they can get their head through it going out but can't figure out how to get it through to come back in?  I think they just liked watching me have a heart attack and race through the gate and around the yard to where they were, praying to God they didn't decide to run around to the other side before I got there. Fixed those stinkers real quick! :daisy: I made them come inside till DH Chi puppy proofed the adult side yard. One shouldn't have to put up 1/2" security fencing to keep in Chis. It's designed for Pitbulls and will hold in an elephant.....also the only size guaranteed to not allow a Chi pup to sneak through.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

LiMarChis said:


> Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed my babies. I'm having fun with this thread, although it made me realize I don't have a lot of "fun" pics of the kids. Will def be working on that. You wanna see a side view, front view, and bite, I gotcha covered. Someone popping up out of a dirt pile with mud on her head, not so much. ROFLOL
> 
> And don't you dare qualify your darlings ever again! They are absolutely adorable!! I loved seeing their pictures. I get a smile from your siggy every time I see it. Winning in the show ring is great. Winning in your heart is even better. It's the best *and* what's most important.
> 
> Let me just also say, I sooooo feel your pain with the chain link fence. These little guys can wiggle their way out of just about anything. What I don't understand is how they can get their head through it going out but can't figure out how to get it through to come back in?  I think they just liked watching me have a heart attack and race through the gate and around the yard to where they were, praying to God they didn't decide to run around to the other side before I got there. Fixed those stinkers real quick! :daisy: I made them come inside till DH Chi puppy proofed the adult side yard. One shouldn't have to put up 1/2" security fencing to keep in Chis. It's designed for Pitbulls and will hold in an elephant.....also the only size guaranteed to not allow a Chi pup to sneak through.


It is a fun thread, isn't it! I speak on size quite a bit. I always feel like if it helps just one person to realize that getting a Chi that ends up at 5 or 6 lbs., doesn't mean they will be getting a "big" Chi. So many search for the little 2 and 3 lbers. because I don't think they really realize just how t-tiny that is. I have people ask me all of the time if Chance is a "teacup." He is mid-range of the standard. A 4 lb. solid boy. But yet still so small. Threads like these can educate. Help people really realize what they are looking for and what they'll get with a certain weight. There are just too many misconceptions with size. I appreciate you adding your expertise here as well. The more info. that is available, the more others can learn. So again, thank you!

I did very much enjoy your website. Your pups are truly stunning. I'm sure you have waiting lists when you have puppies, and even when you don't. I can see from your pics that you strive to better the breed. That is so important. It's nice to see someone breeding within Standard, but not just "for size." I didn't see any teacups advertised. :wink: :lol: Anyway, it's great to have you here. Your knowledge can help so many.

I had to giggle a bit about pictures. When you mentioned coming out of a dirt pile with mud on their head, it reminded me of a set of photos I took with mine playing in the dirt. :lol: I take so many pics that it would take me 10 threads a day to share them all. :wink: I have to remind myself that not everyone wants to see "everything" The Chi Wee's do. :lol:

I hope to see many more photos of your gorgeous pups. Even with mud on their faces. 

The Chi Wee's have never won any ribbons in a show ring, but have won a million in my heart. :love7: And thank you very much for your sweet comments. They are all very dear to my heart. 

I totally hear you on the things the can get out of, but don’t know how to get back in. :lol: They can wiggle themselves into the strangest places. I was taught a very hard lesson on puppy proofing when Lexie got her head stuck in the rungs of a rocker glider, and we came very very near losing her. That day still haunts my mind like it was yesterday. It took the whole family to get her out of that chair, but I promised her I wouldn't give up until I got her out alive, and I kept that promise. It was an eye opener that these little guys can easily get hurt in places you would never imagine in a thousand years that they could even "fit" in. You almost have to get out a measuring tape and measure everything in your house. :wink :lol:

Thanks again, Lisa! I'm Teresa by the way, everyone just calls me T.


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