# Anyone feed Nature's Variety raw/frozen?



## Brodysmom

http://www.naturesvariety.com/raw_products

I've heard really good things about this food. It comes frozen into medallions and you just take out the portion from the freezer and thaw overnight and then feed the next day. It's supposed to be super easy and convenient, with all the benefits of the raw diet and none of the mess. It's already portioned out of the correct balance of muscle/organ/veggies/vitamins.

Brody is such a BAD eater. I just would love to find something he would enjoy eating and that he would eat with gusto and do well on. Don't get me wrong.... he looks great on Orijen and I'm happy with his skin/coat/activity level and stools, etc. It's just that he doesn't seem to like ANY food I give him. He likes it for a couple meals and then he quits liking it and it's another battle to get him to eat. He likes his treats and loves his Kona's Chips, so it's not that he doesn't like any food! Just not crazy about dog food. 

I wonder if I could just use this as a supplement to kibble? Like mix it in with his kibble or something? I'm so scared to go to an all raw diet.

Opinions??

Oh, here's the ingredients... Looks good to me.

NGREDIENTS: Chicken, Raw Ground Chicken Bone, Turkey, Turkey Liver, Turkey Heart, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove


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## TashaZ

It looks great. We don't have that brand here in Australia but we have a similar thing, similar ingedients and 100% preservative free. It's so convenient to just pull them out of the freezer, thaw and serve and my dogs LOVE it, although Pebbles is fussy with the temperature of it, she's a spoilt little girl who likes her food at room temperature not hotter or colder HAHA. I'd give it a go for sure, i'll have to wait until it's here!!


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## jazzman

I will certainly look into it. 
I don't think mixing food is a problem, as long as you mind the calories.
I could be wrong.

If I do try this and they like it, I'll still use kibble, maybe a few times a week, or maybe alternate morning evening meals ?


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## rcj1095

Tracy, I would seriously give this a try if I were you. It has to be so frustrating with him not enjoying his food. The only thing I've heard about raw is not to mix it. If you give him raw for breakfast, it's kibble for dinner or vice versa. Isn't it worth a try just to see if he responds to it??? Please let us know. I've heard this food is wonderful. Brody deserves to love his meals too, huh???


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## Brodysmom

Ok guys - I signed up with my email for their newsletter and they sent me a printable coupon good for a 3 lb bag of the medallions to try for FREE. So I'm going to go get some tomorrow and see what Brody thinks. Can anyone say SPOILED SPOILED SPOILED. ha. 

Anyway, I'm going to try it and see if I can get him to EAT instead of just sniffing his food and walking away.

If anyone else is interested, here's the link: http://www.naturesvariety.com/tryit

You just put in your email and it gives you a list of the closest stores and you pick one and then your printable coupon has your name on it and the store you chose and you just take it in and get your free bag. It's worth a try. 

I'll keep you posted on the never ending, continuing saga of Brody's terrible eating problems. 

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Oh, I'm excited to hear about this. I've been so tempted to try this stuff but my dogs eat fine so I feel like why would I mess with it, ya know??? Especially jwith you just having one now, I would so try it. Please let us know. Our little Brody needs to love his mealtime. Think it's gonna be costly?


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## jazzman

Brodysmom,

I imagine you've already tried this, but for what it's worth 
Lola is rarely interested in eating or at least doesn't stay interested in it.

The only way I can get her to eat is to play with her food.
Toss it across the floor, bat it around, put it in my hand.

She'll eat quite a bit that way, but loses attention very quickly.


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## Brodysmom

jazzman said:


> Brodysmom,
> 
> I imagine you've already tried this, but for what it's worth
> Lola is rarely interested in eating or at least doesn't stay interested in it.
> 
> The only way I can get her to eat is to play with her food.
> Toss it across the floor, bat it around, put it in my hand.
> 
> She'll eat quite a bit that way, but loses attention very quickly.


oh jazzman..... I could write a book on Brody's never ending food saga. ha. I've tried everything I can think of, including hand feeding, playing with the food, etc. I've pretended to eat his kibble saying YUM YUM... everything. LOL. It's really gotten frustrating lately though. So when I saw info on nature's variety I thought "wow, maybe this could be it." I will keep you all posted. 

Brodysmom


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## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> Oh, I'm excited to hear about this. I've been so tempted to try this stuff but my dogs eat fine so I feel like why would I mess with it, ya know??? Especially jwith you just having one now, I would so try it. Please let us know. Our little Brody needs to love his mealtime. Think it's gonna be costly?


Robin, I will let you know how much it is. Right now I'm kind of beyond caring what it costs, as long as he'll eat it. Is that bad?! Shoot... with the economy the way it is and people laid off and not enough money to feed their families and I am spending $$$ on a little 4 pound dog because he won't eat his special food I had flown in from Canada?! Oh BROTHER!!! ha. It really is rather crazy when you think about it. 

Let's just hope he will eat it. I can't wait until the store opens tomorrow so I can go buy some (or go get my free bag!) Now watch them be out of it or something. Just my luck!!! 

Brodysmom


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## lilbabyvenus

Lol, sorry Brodymom, I pm'd you before I even read your post. I re-told you a bunch of stuff you already knew, sorry 
Venus loves the raw chicken medallions, and I would defenitly recommend those for Brody.


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## barefoot

I have been feeding the Natures Variety rabbit to my Chi and Cat. I love the medallions. It makes it soo easy. I bought the rabbit because rabbit was always my cats fav. when I fed raw solely. She went right back to it. We have had no problems. I think the bag we bought it going to last quite awhile too.


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## barefoot

Hey a little off topic. But I just remembered something while I was typing my post,why I loved feeding my puppies raw. It made the potty training easier. They don't drink as much and they poop less. Much easier to train a puppy who is fed raw.

Totally not to do with Brody, but a con for raw feeding.


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## pam6400

So excited to hear how Brody like this.


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## Brodysmom

UPDATE: Ok - just tried it for the first time. 

Well, I couldn't hardly wait to try it. He sniffed it and walked all the way around it, just looking at it. Then he sniffed it again and licked the plate. Then he just sat down and looked at me. So I put a glob on my finger and he licked it off and I praised him and then tried to get him to eat the rest and he was NOT happy about it. I finally just left him alone with it and peeked around the corner and he was staring at it. So maybe he will eat it? He sure didn't wolf it down like I was expecting. I'm kind of disappointed. 

10 minutes later - So I came down and read some posts and I just went back and checked on him and he had licked the plate clean! So maybe this will be the answer we have been looking for. He rarely eats dinner at all. So it's quite a deal for him to eat tonight! Woo Hoo!

I'll keep a close eye on him to make sure his tummy is handling it fine. Hope he doesn't get loose stools from it. I will be watching him. 

He didn't wolf it down like I was hoping, but the fact that he ate it is encouraging!

Brodysmom


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## pam6400

Woo hoo am I happy to hear this!!!!!!! Brody ate dinner!!! When I get back from my trip I will check up on him. Good luck Tracy!


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## jazzman

I found a store that sells this locally.

I would be very interested to hear how Brody does over the next several days with it .

I hope it works out for you


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## rcj1095

I am so happy that he ate his dinner. Maybe he's just not going to be a "woof" it down dog, ya know? Most dogs are driven by food but maybe he's wired differently. I am so tempted to try this. Will you do once a day or twice a day? Is this considered raw feeding? I'm fascinated by raw feeding but scared and sometimes lazy so I don't want to commit. Please keep us updated on everything. I am very interested in this. 

Economy or not, I would be exactly how you are.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Good for Brody! I'm glad he at least ate his dinner. Hopefully he will lick his plate clean for his next meal too!!
Fingers crossed!!


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## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> I am so happy that he ate his dinner. Maybe he's just not going to be a "woof" it down dog, ya know? Most dogs are driven by food but maybe he's wired differently. I am so tempted to try this. Will you do once a day or twice a day? Is this considered raw feeding? I'm fascinated by raw feeding but scared and sometimes lazy so I don't want to commit. Please keep us updated on everything. I am very interested in this.
> 
> Economy or not, I would be exactly how you are.


Thanks Robin and everyone for your comments! I am happy that he ate it! The next few days will tell as we see if he continues to eat it. On some days, I'm lucky to get 10 pieces of kibble down him for the entire day. Then I feel bad and give him treats, which he eats, and that starts a bad cycle! Because of course he would rather have the treats, so I think he holds out for them. I really need to get him on a healthier way of eating.

My plan is to continue with the Orijen puppy mixed with a teaspoon of canned and the nupro in the morning. He does usually eat that. Then a couple kona chips during the day and at naptime and then I'll do the NV raw medallion for dinner. He rarely eats dinner and then I worry about him not having any food in his tummy for the evening and through the night!! According to the NV calculator, he should get one medallion a day. (Two if he's eating that exclusively). 

I'm splitting up the kibble and NV raw, even though they say it can be fed together. Some people say that the enzymes in the stomach used to digest kibble and raw are different and not to mix them. Then others say it doesn't matter. But I will keep the meals totally separate for now.

I thawed several medallions in the fridge. The rest are in the freezer. It is absolutely the easiest way to feed raw I've ever seen. Just stick a medallion on a plate, mash it with a fork and feed. It looks and smells like a raw turkey burger. Not bad at all. And I love the ingredients! It looks so healthy.

The testimonials and info on their website looks so good. I am really encouraged. http://www.naturesvariety.com/

If I can get him to do the Orijen in the morning and the NV Raw in the evening, and he will eat it... I think I will have the best of both worlds!! 

I will keep you guys posted!!! 

Brodysmom


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## carrera

Glad to hear Brody likes it, we'll see how carrera and chicco take to it once i have a chance to pick it up. 

chicco wolfs everything you put in front of him down in two seconds, but carrera always takes her time, so maybe thats how brody is, carrera only rushes if chicco is trying to get her food, otherwise she takes ten years---except with cat food of course, that seems to have no problem going down.


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## Muzby

How are the medallions going?


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## Brodysmom

He's had them two days now and doing FINE! No loose stools or any kind of tummy upset at all. The first time I fed it he didn't know quite what to think. Yesterday when I put it down, he went right to eating it. And he licks the plate clean.  It doesn't seem like much food at all. Those medallions are pretty small, but I think it's just the right amount for him since he's not a big eater. They are sooooo easy!!! I'm thrilled that he's eating!!

So Muzby... if this continues to go well.... do you think I could give him a raw chicken wing in place of the medallion once in awhile? For variety and teeth? Or should I just keep him on the NV and not mess with it? 

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

This is such wonderful news for you and Brody. I would love to give them something different at dinner. I'm going to look into this. I'm really excited for you guys. It will feel so much better to not worry about his eating or lack there of. Keep us posted over the next couple of days.


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## Muzby

Brodysmom said:


> He's had them two days now and doing FINE! No loose stools or any kind of tummy upset at all. The first time I fed it he didn't know quite what to think. Yesterday when I put it down, he went right to eating it. And he licks the plate clean.  It doesn't seem like much food at all. Those medallions are pretty small, but I think it's just the right amount for him since he's not a big eater. They are sooooo easy!!! I'm thrilled that he's eating!!
> 
> So Muzby... if this continues to go well.... do you think I could give him a raw chicken wing in place of the medallion once in awhile? For variety and teeth? Or should I just keep him on the NV and not mess with it?
> 
> Brodysmom


Glad he is eating, and you are pleased with the ease!

Yes, eventually I would start to offer bone meals as well as meat only meals and organs. Since you are only doing 1 meal of raw, I would wait until he's been on it two-three weeks before intro'ing any new meats. Then, get those wings, cut them into two pieces. Offer one medallion and half a wing. If he doesn't eat the wing, refridgerate until next meal and offer the same dinner. Rinse, repeat until he is eating the medallion and the wing. Then you can switch back and forth at will. Stay at this level for another two weeks before you add any new meats/variety.

Another nice option is chicken livers (organ meat), chicken giblets (counts as muscle meat) and eventually just other various things cut into "meal" sized pieces. The only real 'work' with raw is smaller dogs need it cut to meal size, and keeping track of your 80/10/10 schedule (which is pretty easy if you go week by week). 

If you want to just stick with wings/medallions, that's fine too. I think Brody will just be happy he gets to eat REAL food sometimes! You may notice (like my moms dog) that eventually he stops wanting kibble altogether. LOL Moms shep just refuses any kibble now, it can sit in her dish for WEEKS. She waits for the "good stuff".


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## Brodysmom

Thanks for the info. Muzby. This is kind of scary... this raw business! But I am going to take it really slow and transition him gradually. I would like to keep him on kibble (Orijen) for one meal a day for now! I can't imagine feeding him all raw!! Scares me to death! But the Nature's Variety is sure an easy and convenient way to introduce raw feeding and I love that it's already packaged and balanced. And I love that he is eating!! I hope this is the KEY we have been searching for all these months with his eating problems. I know he's only had two meals of the medallions but he sure seems to have lots of energy in the evening after eating! He usually likes to chill out and lay around with his bully sticks but the last two nights I've let him outside after eating his NV medallions and he has run huge big circles all around the yard over and over!! HA!

Thanks for your help. I really do appreciate having a guiding hand in this raw arena. 

Brodysmom


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## Muzby

No worries. If all Brody ever wants is his nightly raw meal, and AM kibble, then he will still be a healthier dog for it.

Ah, so you already notice the raw zoomies! LOL My fifteen year old cat was always a LAZY man, but the raw allows him to run and play like a 6 year old again.  I believe it has a lot to do with how they process the different foods, and how it makes them feel. I akin it to a giant meal of greasy fast food (makes you want to sleep or just relax) vs. a fresh green salad, with chicken, and some berries for dessert! I always feel so much more happy and active after a meal like that, so I don't see why our pets wouldn't feel better too!

Even if raw is scary, you are doing the best you can for Brody right now. Who knows, one day you may be ready to move over to the dark side.. but for now, feel free to set up camp right on the border.  LOL Afterall, some raw is better than none.


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## barefoot

I have a video of Pippa eating a chicken wing I would love to share. But I can't figure out how to link a photobucket video without it showing my whole album.


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## Brodysmom

For the first time EVER... tonight... Brody saw me getting dinner ready and he ran to his crate and jumped in and waited for his medallion. Licking his lips, I might add. That is a FIRST. I always had to put him in his crate with his evening meal and beg him to eat before. And 90% of the time he would just go get in his bed and not eat ANYTHING. I couldn't believe it when he ran in there and waited for the NV. Wow. I'm amazed and shocked. He ate every bite. I am so encouraged!!!


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## lilbabyvenus

I am so happy for you and Brody. I just got this huge grin on my face and just thought "finally, something he likes to eat."


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## Muzby

Hurray! Here's to more positive reactions! Go Brody!

Betty says: Finally they get that we LOVE his stuff, eh? Congrats on convincing your human!


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## rcj1095

I feel as if Brody's my dog and I just got him to eat. LOL. I'm so excited with you. Huge smiles over here. Tracy, do you remember what the 48 piece bag cost??? I'm so curious. I would just love to give mine one at night also. With four of them though, I do have to keep cost in mind. Thanks and I'm truly glowing right now with you!!!


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## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> I feel as if Brody's my dog and I just got him to eat. LOL. I'm so excited with you. Huge smiles over here. Tracy, do you remember what the 48 piece bag cost??? I'm so curious. I would just love to give mine one at night also. With four of them though, I do have to keep cost in mind. Thanks and I'm truly glowing right now with you!!!


Robin I am so excited. You know what I've been going through with this stubborn boy!! LOL! 

I think the 3 pound bag was around $15. I got two for one since I had the coupon from the website for buy one get one free bag. So I got 6 pounds for around $30. That's a LOT of medallions, especially if I'm feeding only one per day. Several months worth. I hope I'm telling you right. I was so excited to get it that I didn't pay much attention when he was ringing it up! 

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Okay, so if I gave mine one each day also, I would go through the 48 medallion bag in 12 days, right? So... around $15 for two weeks for mine. What do you think? It'll cut down on the Orijen too. I would love to try this! You know I have to do everything you do!!! LOL.


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## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> Okay, so if I gave mine one each day also, I would go through the 48 medallion bag in 12 days, right? So... around $15 for two weeks for mine. What do you think? It'll cut down on the Orijen too. I would love to try this! You know I have to do everything you do!!! LOL.


ok, so that's $1.00 a day for your 4 dogs or 25 cents a medallion. That's not bad! The little ones could probably split a medallion and then Coco and Cooper could have their own. You'd just have to see how they do! 

You should try it!! It is supposed to be really healthy for them. I'm not ready to jump on the raw bandwagon yet, but this seems like such a healthy alternative and a great way to supplement with raw. As Muzby said... I can sit on the border and not commit fully either way.  I loved that!! ha!

Be sure and go to the page on the NV website where you can sign up for an email newsletter and they send you a coupon right away for buy one, get one bag free. That would give you a good start!

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

I'm doing it right now. This seems like such an easy way to offer some raw. I'll be on it and will let you know. Thanks again and Go Brody!!! Try to get a pic of him eating it. That would really be something, huh? A thread of Brody actually eating. Tickles me...


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## rcj1095

Okay, I ordered from my fav website (k-9 cuisine). I also ordered the kibble to try. It's a 6 star food on our dog food analysis website right along with Orijen and Wellness. It was 14 lbs. for $28 versus Orijen at 15 lbs. for $43. I decided since Coop and Coco are so not picky that I'd give it a try. The chicken medallions and kibble (which is grain free) are being shipped today. I will let you know what my gang thinks of it. Looks like awesome food. I'm excited. It'll be closer to $2/day for mine to eat the medallions. I couldn't figure out how to get a coupon but I'll keep trying. If I can save a bit on the kibble, and they like this kind, I can justify the medallions. Thanks for all your tips Tracy. Hope Brody is still going good!!!


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## Brodysmom

Wow, I can't wait to see what you think!!! I have heard good things about the whole line of NV. That's awesome that you are going to try it. Let me know how it goes. 

Brody is his usual happy self. NO tummy problems at all. He ate his orijen, teaspoon of canned, and Nupro this morning too. Woo Woo! I hope this continues. Would sure be a load off my mind to not worry about his eating.

brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Yeah!!! Go Brody Go. If he only knew how happy it makes his Mommy for him to eat... I am really excited for my food. It should be here tom or Wed at the latest. I'll keep ya posted.


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## rcj1095

Okay, my food came today. Did I order the wrong thing maybe? My medallions are freeze dried. Is that right? Am I supposed to put them in the freezer? There are absolutely no instructions on my bag except to add water and how many to give per the dogs weight. I think we might have two different things. I'm gonna get back on the website and see. I gave Coop and Coco each one and added hot water to it so it would break down and I've never seen Coco eat anything faster in her life. She never eats like that. They loved it, even if I bought the wrong thing. Ha. Ha. The kibble states it's an all life stage kibble. Do you trust that with the pups?


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Okay, you guys have totally got me interested in this whole raw feeding! 
I checked out the Natures Variety website and they have Raw Organic Chicken!!! Very tempting .
I'm feeding them Natura's Karma Organic food now, and I feed them organic treats. Well, now they also get Kona's Chips and their bully sticks (free range) which aren't organic, but I trust it. 
I'm just real picky what I feed them, and it has to have the green usda label on it. I know, your probably thinking I'm a nut. Lol!
Anyways, It sounds really interesting, and I like that it comes in organic and it's grain free. The kibble isn't organic or the can though. I wonder if I can feed them the organic raw chicken plus the Karma? 
Will it still benefit them, or do you have to go all the way and feed raw?
Anyone know?


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## rcj1095

You're not crazy at all. I totally agree with you about the label. You don't have to go all raw. You can supplement. I'm going to give mine one a day and kibble for the other meal. I ordered the freeze dried instead of the raw but I just spoke to a rep and she told me it has the same nutrition. The freeze dried just doesn't have to go in the freezer. I will order the raw next time. 

I've been on several websites and you can get it at Pet Supplies Plus, I believe. With shipping, I can get 3 lbs. of raw turkey/chicken for $24 - $30 bucks depending on where you order. I've never seen Coco eat anything so quickly. It's so easy it's embarrassing. It's still gonna run me $50 bucks or so a month if I do it for all four. I'm just checking it out and I'll keep a close eye on their potty and all that. I'm thrilled with the price of the kibble so I hope mine do okay on that as well. That'll take a week or so to be able to tell. Keep me posted or pm me.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

I will Robin. Please let me know how your chi's do on it.
I just called a pet store and they carry the raw organic chicken there, so I don't have to have it shipped. Tempting!


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## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> I will Robin. Please let me know how your chi's do on it.
> I just called a pet store and they carry the raw organic chicken there, so I don't have to have it shipped. Tempting!


Did you ask how much it was Lisa? I'm guessing you and I would need 2 bags a month, right? If we gave them each one medallion a day or so. Is that what you are coming up with also? I'm totally going to the pet store also. I just shipped cuz it's free shipping and I was so lazy on Monday.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

I forgot to ask! I was so happy they had it there that I forgot. Lol!
Maybe later today I will take a drive there and check it out. Two bags sounds about right to me. I'm wondering if I could get it cheaper on line. Free shipping would be great too! 
Let's see I buy the 4.4 pound bag of Karma dog food now, about twice a month, and I pay $15.00, if I buy the 15.4 pound bag it's $43.00, I think. Now if I add in the Natures Variety I wonder how much I will be paying a month? I will be able to cut back on the Karma. I will have to do the math and see what their food bill is going to cost me a month. Lol! They eat way better then I do. SPOILED!!!


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Really two bags won't cover a full month for all four dogs. 
Is one medallion enough food for one meal? I have to see the size of these medallion. Lol.


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## jazzman

I'm so glad Brody is doing well with it !

I would not worry one bit about kibble in the morining and N.V. in the evening.
As long as you work out the calories, he should be happy and very healthy.

Don't know if it was the N.V. website, or where I read it , but do be careful
with the raw meals. I believe they say to throw out anything that's not consumed in 1/2 hour, and wash everything thoroughly ( bowls, knifes, cutting boards ,etc).

I think a stainless steel bowl would be appropriate, too.

I can't wait to try it on my boys and girls. Once I get their weight under control, I'll get some. ( They are loving the Before Grain kibble. Joie is my pickiest eater, and he's standing up on his back legs in anticipation )


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## Brodysmom

Day 5 of the Nature's Variety and all is well!! He is continuing to eat it for his dinner meal and doing great! I haven't noticed a decrease in his poops, which people say will happen, but he only poops about twice a day anyway and they are small as it is. 

I think one medallion is one ounce. It's about the size of ..... hmmm.... maybe half a golf ball? I would say it's about one inch by one inch in a cube shape? There's a calculator on the NV site where you put in the dogs weight and activity level and it will tell you how many medallions to feed. Since Brody only eats half of the NV (the other half is Orijen), it says to feed him one.

http://www.naturesvariety.com/raw_QandA

http://www.naturesvariety.com/feedguide

I just thaw 3 in the fridge at a time. Take one out at dinner. Nuke it for 5 seconds so that it's not so cold. Then smash it with a fork and feed. It doesn't look like much food! But maybe it is nutrient and calorie dense? He eats it great now. Every bit of it. And licks the bowl clean. Never any left overs.

I hope this continues. It's such a good and easy way to get him to eat! 

Brodysmom


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## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> Okay, my food came today. Did I order the wrong thing maybe? My medallions are freeze dried. Is that right? Am I supposed to put them in the freezer? There are absolutely no instructions on my bag except to add water and how many to give per the dogs weight. I think we might have two different things. I'm gonna get back on the website and see. I gave Coop and Coco each one and added hot water to it so it would break down and I've never seen Coco eat anything faster in her life. She never eats like that. They loved it, even if I bought the wrong thing. Ha. Ha. The kibble states it's an all life stage kibble. Do you trust that with the pups?


Hi Robin, I just saw this post! I haven't done the freeze dried, just the raw. So they like it?! I'm glad you called and asked about it. Let me know how it goes and also how the new kibble goes over. I'm really excited about this line of food!

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Hi Robin, I just saw this post! I haven't done the freeze dried, just the raw. So they like it?! I'm glad you called and asked about it. Let me know how it goes and also how the new kibble goes over. I'm really excited about this line of food!
> 
> Brodysmom


Oh yea girl. Cooper would eat a pencil sharpener so I don't really worry about whether he likes it or not but Coco will pick and eat some of it. She's done much better with the nupro gravy but still doesn't wolf it down. She lapped this up like crazy. I'm gonna stick to one medallion each a day and kibble for the other small meal. Coop weighs 9 lbs. so he may need two for half of his intake for the day. This is awesome. I'm so glad you tried this out. I'll let ya know how they feel about the kibble!!!


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## Muzby

Glad so many people are willing to try it now!

For whomever: Yes, it is fine to do raw/kibble. SOME dogs may not react well though, and a lot of dogs "detox" (the runs, perhaps vomit). These things are nothing to worry about, just take it slow and it should fix itself. 

It's not really a great idea to do kibble/raw in one meal, try to seperate the meals (dinner/breakfast) because they process kibble much differently then they do raw meat. 

Also, on he poop issue.. don't expect a huge decrease in the amount or an extreme change in consistency if you are still feeding kibble for one meal. It will get better, and their coats, their energy levels and teeth.. but don't expect the extreme changes that raw fed only brings (long story short, don't be disappointed if the changes are fast enough or extreme enough).


----------



## pigeonsheep

good going brody! i'm afraid he might get bored of this one too though...LOL. the closest thing i found on bullysticks is this raw food freeze dried brand
http://www.bestbullysticks.com/home/bbs_1243994365956/smartlist_51/omas_pride_raw_dog_foodtreats.html
looks interesting as well but i know dexter wont like this at all...he only lieks da smell of cooked food


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## Muzby

pigeonsheep said:


> good going brody! i'm afraid he might get bored of this one too though...LOL.


I doubt it! Betty has been raw for a long while, and she still has never had a day where she wasn't SUPER EXCITED to get her breakfast/dinner. She bounces around the kitchen while we feed the cats and runs to her eating blanket!

You should really try the raw stuff with your little man, I think you might be surprised at how he would react. He is a dog, afterall.


----------



## pigeonsheep

Muzby said:


> I doubt it! Betty has been raw for a long while, and she still has never had a day where she wasn't SUPER EXCITED to get her breakfast/dinner. She bounces around the kitchen while we feed the cats and runs to her eating blanket!
> 
> You should really try the raw stuff with your little man, I think you might be surprised at how he would react. He is a dog, afterall.


hmmm...not too sure....raw sounds wrong to me  but i've been having issues with him eating recently...lemme make a post so i dont hog this one


----------



## LoLa's Mommy

My babies have been on a raw rotation diet and nature's variety is our choice brand. I can not say enough about the benefits of the raw diet. I am so glad more people getting on board with the idea of feeding raw.

I personally like the idea of rotation diet because it keeps their bodies and palates used to kibble. This is especially helpful when we travel.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

My chi's had there first taste of their NV raw this morning! 
I must admit I am still nervous giving it to them. I worry about them getting diarrhea and having gas because it something new. The ingredients do have a lot of the same ingredients that their Karma food does though, so maybe all will be good. I took one medallion and divided up into four pieces. They gobbled it up so quick! I knew they would, they'll eat anything! 
Lola has been very gassy since I gave her the free range bully sticks so I'm not giving her that anymore. It's been about 4 days since the last time I gave it to her and she is still gassy!
I do have a question.
If I am feeding them raw is it okay for them to chew on their toys after, or lick me. My chi's are big lickers and they LOVE their toys. Isn't that bad? How easily do people and things get contaminated, or am I being paranoid. I know dogs most likely won't get sick because of their digestive system, but what about me?


----------



## Brodysmom

I don't think I'd worry about contamination after eating NV. I've never really thought about it though, but I seriously doubt that anything could be transmitted after eating it, onto toys or people, etc. That's a good question though! Maybe Muzby or someone else with raw experience can let us know. I'd like to know too!


----------



## BeckyLa

I've been following this thread and am considering NV for Dani, but I have read that eating raw can bring out the nastiness in a dog, that it can lead them to become very food obsessive and aggressive. Is there any truth to this?


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

I've actually read about that somewhere too. I have been doing a lot of reading about the NV and it is pretty much split down the middle with customer reviews. Some people like it and some people had issues with it. I guess we can only judge from our own personal experience.
I hope someone on here can help though!


----------



## jazzman

I've read frequently that when switch foods, you shouldn't do it over night.
You should mix the old with new and slowly change the ratios.

I'm not sure how that would work with N.V. Maybe you just have to start by
giving them a taste for a few days, then keep bumping it up.

I"ve not read anything about the food-aggression, but, mine have never been fond of sharing their food to begin with


----------



## Muzby

If contamination was a problem, I'd be dead by now.  Betty has licked my face, my spoon, her toys, even snuck meat onto my blanket (grr!) and no one has gotten sick. 

As for the aggressive issues: If your dogs are alpha, or do not believe YOU are alpha, then yes you may have problems. If your dog is not trained, you will have problems. They aren't "I AM GOING TO KILL YOU IF YOU TAKE MY FOOD" issues, more like "Holy crap this is the best thing EVER, since I never get this, I won't give it to you!". FatDog used to snap if we try and take her raw bones away (she dragged one somewhere she shouldn't and I tried to take it back). She was taught no manners at her old home, and was alpha there. Now she knows I am the boss, and I have no issues. Betty has never been a problem, I was always able to take food out of her mouth. It's not like the dog gets a taste of blood and goes crazy, I -hate- when people think that. The worst "obsessive" Betty gets, is that she bounces all over at meal time. I get so scared. 

One fact that I'd like to point out as well: Since switching to raw, we've never had a garbage digger or poop eater. No one tries to get into the garbage, and we've left bags with old meat on the floor overnight once. Not one critter tried to get at it (4 cats and was just Betty then). I sincerely believe it's because they are getting everything they need nutritionally now, finally! That they have no desire to get into old chicken bones, or rancid stuff. Also, no one eats the cat poo anymore. 

As for switching slowly: Yes, it is advised you switch slow. But even a slow switch can cause the runs or perhaps a vomit or two (if the meat is too cold/eaten too fast). Some things (like pork) can cause the runs even if they're used to raw meat (it's very fatty, and often times 'enhanced' with sodium which makes their tummies upset).

FatDog was switched using canned food, to get her to eat the raw meat (she was very hesitant). I have known people to just go cold turkey, and other than the original detox, there have been no issues. ANY dog may have a detox period, btw.. many are lucky and don't have to deal with it, but it's still possible (detox = the runs to get rid of the old "crap" in their systems from kibble/canned).


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Thanks Kelly! I feel a lot better now. I am doing it slowly, so I hope all will be okay. I just gave them their dog food mixed with nupro, and all but one gobbled it up. I am still trying to get Lila to eat now. I am surprised I am having trouble at all, let alone with her. I made a gravy out of it too. Oh well, she either eats it or she'll have to wait for her NV breakfast in the morning. 
Thanks again!!


----------



## Muzby

No problem, Lisa.  I love helping, and I feel very strongly that raw is the best option for almost all dogs and cats.. so any way I can help people feel more comfortable and learn is great for me! 

Take it as slow as you need to.. I will be here if you have questions or need help. Or even just a cheerleader! 

Maybe your little one is holding out for the NV?  Many many many dogs, once they taste it, will hold out for it. My moms GSD has kibble down 24/7 and since she's raw fed, refuses to eat the kibbles. LOL Mom still spends the money on the Orijen and I keep telling her it's a waste! The dog clearly WANTS to be raw only! Silly mom. 

Also, I have heard some dogs who after months on NV will start refusing them, and want "real" meat. LOL


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Aww...thanks Kelly! I will definitely take you up on your offer!! And I can always use a cheerleader!


----------



## rcj1095

OMG, this thread is awesome. So, mine have had 1 medallion each and the two littles split one. They act like they've died and gone to heaven. Their other meal of the day is the NV kibble with the nupro gravy (which they love). Coop chows it but Coco is fussier. She barely got her kibble down today. She is totally holding out for the NV. I laughed so hard. She kept looking up at me like, okay joke's over, where's the good stuff.

So far, so good at my house. Everyone loves it. I feel great about it. I never once even considered contamination issues. I'm not much of a worrywart like that, I probably should be.

Lisa, we are doing the exact same thing. I think Tracy is also. 1 medallion a day and kibble with nupro for the other meal. Mine haven't had any tummy problems and I'm on day 4 now. Let's keep in touch over this one.

Kelly, thank you so much for all your wisdom and advice. I was very nervous to try this but am so glad we did. Mine seem thrilled and it's so easy. Maybe one day I'll be all raw but right now I'm really happy with the half and half to get accustomed.

Thanks Tracy for getting us all started!!!


----------



## Muzby

*says in a deep scary voice* .. welcome over to the daaaaaark siiiiiiiide! *maniacal laugh*


----------



## rcj1095

Muzby said:


> *says in a deep scary voice* .. welcome over to the daaaaaark siiiiiiiide! *maniacal laugh*


I've always liked the dark side... maniacal laugh right back at ya!!!:coolwink:


----------



## Brodysmom

I am soooooooooooooooo excited about this girls!!! And thanks Muzby for being our cheerleader and also giving us great advice and reassurance too. Brody has not skipped a meal since I started the NV and he is on day 8! Woo!! It is so awesome to see him eating again and enjoying it! He licks the plate clean. I can't remember the last time he did that. Maybe never. It just makes me SO happy to see him eat and enjoy it.


----------



## blondebond

I love watching Seti chow down on a chicken wing. He prefers them semi frozen. It takes him a little while to chew it up, but it keeps him busy while the other dogs eat in peace. He eats the whole thing bones and all, no problem. At first I was running them through the meat grinder because I was afraid he would choke on a bone, but it's truly not necessary.

I was nervous at first, but he eats them like he's been eating raw his whole life. It's also true that they are less thirsty and have to pee alot less. Definite bonus.


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> I am soooooooooooooooo excited about this girls!!! And thanks Muzby for being our cheerleader and also giving us great advice and reassurance too. Brody has not skipped a meal since I started the NV and he is on day 8! Woo!! It is so awesome to see him eating again and enjoying it! He licks the plate clean. I can't remember the last time he did that. Maybe never. It just makes me SO happy to see him eat and enjoy it.


Yea, this is awesome. I'm so happy for Brody and you. I love the ease and ever since I've seen Kelly's posts, I've been so intrigued. Just scared. You helped me make the leap and mine are so thrilled also. 8 days is amazing!!! I'll bet he doesn't get sick of this. You gonna stick with chicken or try some of the other flavors???


----------



## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> Yea, this is awesome. I'm so happy for Brody and you. I love the ease and ever since I've seen Kelly's posts, I've been so intrigued. Just scared. You helped me make the leap and mine are so thrilled also. 8 days is amazing!!! I'll bet he doesn't get sick of this. You gonna stick with chicken or try some of the other flavors???


I am going to stick with chicken! He's eating!! He's really eating!!! ha ha! I don't want to mess with it.


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> I am going to stick with chicken! He's eating!! He's really eating!!! ha ha! I don't want to mess with it.


Yea, if it's not broken... right??? Great news. Keep us posted to any potty differences or food aggression or anything like that. None of that going on here. Hard to keep Chloe in her own bowl but she's always the problem in everything. Good thing she's cute, huh?


----------



## Muzby

Girls, I am so happy everyone is so happy!!!! 

I will say though, DO NOT STICK TO ONE FLAVOUR! Once they are used to it, PLEASE mix it up.

Most allergies are formed by only having ONE kind of "something" (almost ALL kibbles have chicken/grains/starches.. wonder why those three things are the most common allergy?). Ever hear of a wild dog ONLY eating birds? 

Chicken for months won't hurt, but please do give them variety. The good part about raw is that unlike kibble/canned changing the meat source doesn't really change the way they process, as roughly, as the kibble/canned does. So they are less likely to get the runs/etc. Some things like venison/heart meat/organ meat can be too rich, but smaller amounts can fix that until they get used to it. 

My goal for you all is to have them eating all the different flavours of NV! Mmm, variety! (p.s. Bettys favourite meat is rabbit, does NV come in a rabbit flavour?).


----------



## lilbabyvenus

Muzby said:


> My goal for you all is to have them eating all the different flavours of NV! Mmm, variety! (p.s. Bettys favourite meat is rabbit, does NV come in a rabbit flavour?).


Yes ma'am it does.
Rabbit, Chicken, Organic Chicken, Beef, Lamb, and Venison.


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## rcj1095

Muzby said:


> Girls, I am so happy everyone is so happy!!!!
> 
> I will say though, DO NOT STICK TO ONE FLAVOUR! Once they are used to it, PLEASE mix it up.
> 
> Most allergies are formed by only having ONE kind of "something" (almost ALL kibbles have chicken/grains/starches.. wonder why those three things are the most common allergy?). Ever hear of a wild dog ONLY eating birds?
> 
> Chicken for months won't hurt, but please do give them variety. The good part about raw is that unlike kibble/canned changing the meat source doesn't really change the way they process, as roughly, as the kibble/canned does. So they are less likely to get the runs/etc. Some things like venison/heart meat/organ meat can be too rich, but smaller amounts can fix that until they get used to it.
> 
> My goal for you all is to have them eating all the different flavours of NV! Mmm, variety! (p.s. Bettys favourite meat is rabbit, does NV come in a rabbit flavour?).


It sure does!!! Rabbit, beef, chicken, turkey, and something else but I can't remember. I figured I'd do a couple weeks with chicken and then start switching it up. We Need You so please hang in there with us!!!


----------



## Brodysmom

Muzby said:


> Girls, I am so happy everyone is so happy!!!!
> 
> I will say though, DO NOT STICK TO ONE FLAVOUR! Once they are used to it, PLEASE mix it up.
> 
> Most allergies are formed by only having ONE kind of "something" (almost ALL kibbles have chicken/grains/starches.. wonder why those three things are the most common allergy?). Ever hear of a wild dog ONLY eating birds?
> 
> Chicken for months won't hurt, but please do give them variety. The good part about raw is that unlike kibble/canned changing the meat source doesn't really change the way they process, as roughly, as the kibble/canned does. So they are less likely to get the runs/etc. Some things like venison/heart meat/organ meat can be too rich, but smaller amounts can fix that until they get used to it.
> 
> My goal for you all is to have them eating all the different flavours of NV! Mmm, variety! (p.s. Bettys favourite meat is rabbit, does NV come in a rabbit flavour?).


That's good to know. I didn't know about the mixing it up. I thought that might make him picky. Thanks for letting me know about that. NV has several flavors.... chicken, organic chicken, beef, lamb, venison, and rabbit. http://www.naturesvariety.com/raw_products

I will buy a different flavor when my two bags run out! Yay!

Brodysmom


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## Muzby

Mmm, I want to hear how they like the rabbit, since it's Bettys fav. Although, FatDog hates it.  We also love beef heart (not -exactly- the same) and lamb! YUM!

If you can, buy a new flavour AND a chicken (since you know he'll eat that one if he snubs the new flavour at first).

Yes, unlike canned/kibble, raw makes it easy to switch kinds if you so choose, on a whim. Betty eats lamb for brekkie, chicken for dinner, then the next day beef twice.. maybe some pork then rabbit. She's always bouncing around my feet trying to find out what's next! I really should get a video of that one day.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Okay, day number 2 and so far so good! 
They haven't had any tummy problems yet. They are loving the NV. I still only gave them 1/4 of the medallion each, and may give half tomorrow. Will see. I don't want to rush it.
The Nupro is a hit with the three chi's. Lila is still not loving it like the others. I did notice that all four lick off all of the Nupro gravy first then eat the food. Lila who I thought wasn't to crazy about the Nupro, seems to be not to crazy about having the Nupro on her food, but will gobble the Nupro gravy right up on my fingers. 
Tomorrow I'm just giving them the Nupro mixed with water and no food. They seem to prefer it that way. Little pains in the butts!Lol!


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## Brodysmom

Day 9 for Brody and doing GREAT! No tummy upset at all. Still eating the one NV medallion a day at dinner time and he's licking the plate clean! So nice to see him eating.  I am thrilled.

Brodysmom


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## chichilady

So happy for him.
chichilady


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Isn't it wonderful when you see him enjoying his food! I think you found the perfect food for Brody. I bet your relieved. 

Okay not about the NV, but about the Nupro. I was reading on their website and they recommend splitting up the amount of Nupro so that they get some for breakfast and some for dinner.
Anyone know why? I think it's so that they can better absorb the vitamins, but I could be way off. Lol.


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## Brodysmom

Yes, I think it's just for better absorption on the Nupro. I gave one of the tiny scoops for breakfast and one for supper every day for about a month. Then I started to see really good results on Brody so I cut back to just once a day at breakfast as a maintenance dose and it's worked great.


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## Muzby

YAAAAAAAAAY doing so well, ladies (and gents)!

Betty had lamb for dinner, YUM YUM. Anyone else notice an increase in energy besides Brody? Raw zoomies ALMOST make you wish they didn't have so much energy, sometimes.. ALMOST, but not quite. LOL

I love hearing all your stories about how they gobble every NV meal so fast, it makes me smile.


----------



## KayC

OK Now you all have me thinking I need to feed the NV for dinner too. I just signed up at the website and my pet store Naturally 4Paws carries it. So as soon as I get the coupon I will get some. I still want to feed the Orijen in the AM but what is the Nupro and what is it for? And how much do you put over the food. Zoey has always been a picky eater too. I have been keeping an eye on Broody to see how he has been doing and it sounds great. Thank you for all the info. Kay & Zoey


----------



## rcj1095

Kay, do a search on nupro. Tracy did a thread a while back and I ordered some (it's a powder substance full of nutrients and vitamins). You add a small amount to their dry food and you can add hot water to make a gravy or just sprinkle it on dry. Really good for their coats, eyes, everything. Mine love their kibble now.

The NV is awesome. I give them one meal a day with small amount of kibble and nupro and the other meal is one chicken medallion. The two littles split one cuz they are little still.

I'm taking Kelly's advice and am going to switch up the flavor of the medallions after a few weeks. No potty trouble, they love the NV. I mean love it!!!

Great change and I've been wanting to dabble in the raw a bit but been afraid. This is a great way to transition. Let us know if you try it. We have our own little support thread here!!! LOL.


----------



## KayC

Wow I got my coupon already within minutes.


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## LDMomma

Brodysmom said:


> Day 5 of the Nature's Variety and all is well!! He is continuing to eat it for his dinner meal and doing great! I haven't noticed a decrease in his poops, which people say will happen, but he only poops about twice a day anyway and they are small as it is.
> 
> I think one medallion is one ounce. It's about the size of ..... hmmm.... maybe half a golf ball? I would say it's about one inch by one inch in a cube shape? There's a calculator on the NV site where you put in the dogs weight and activity level and it will tell you how many medallions to feed. Since Brody only eats half of the NV (the other half is Orijen), it says to feed him one.
> 
> http://www.naturesvariety.com/raw_QandA
> 
> http://www.naturesvariety.com/feedguide
> 
> I just thaw 3 in the fridge at a time. Take one out at dinner. Nuke it for 5 seconds so that it's not so cold. Then smash it with a fork and feed. It doesn't look like much food! But maybe it is nutrient and calorie dense? He eats it great now. Every bit of it. And licks the bowl clean. Never any left overs.
> 
> I hope this continues. It's such a good and easy way to get him to eat!
> 
> Brodysmom


I don't think you're supposed to nuke them though. It says that cooking them could drain some of the nutrients. Mine says to put it in a stainless steel bowl and heat over a double boiler.


----------



## KayC

It also says once thawed feed with in 24 hours???????


----------



## LDMomma

Zoey's Mom said:


> It also says once thawed feed with in 24 hours???????


Mine says it will stay good for 3-5 days in the fridge.


----------



## rcj1095

I take mine out of the fridge and let it set for 20 minutes or so and then it's room temp so I don't have to nuke it. If I had to do the dbl boiler thing it would automatically become too much work for me. LOL.

Kay, let us know what you do... Can't wait to hear.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

*I'm sold on NV and so are my Chi's!!!! *

Day four and no problems!??! 
I must admit I am a shocked that not one chi is having tummy problems . 
Yesterday I started giving them 1/2 medallion. They *LOVE* it ! I started mixing 1/2 of their Nupro with the NV in the morning's, and for dinner they get their Karma with the other 1/2 of the Nupro.
They really like the NV. When they hear me mixing it up with the Nupro they all start dancing around me excited to get their food. It's really quite funny :laughing1:.

My package says refrigerate to defrost and to use within 24 hours. 
If they don't eat it within 30 minutes pick it up.
I let mine sit out a couple of minutes before I serve it.


----------



## rcj1095

Yeah!!! More success stories, I love it!!!


----------



## Muzby

We use real meat, and we often have stuff sit in the fridge for a week. It gets a little ripe at that point, but they ALL love it that way.  

Remeber, dogs can eat some NASTY things... and not get sick. Once it starts to smell a little ripe at a week, I will feed what's left then toss. 

I would not nuke, because it could cook it too much and if there's bone .. cooked bone = no good. Also you lose so much of the raw nutrients if it's even a little cooked. 

The best thing to do if you need it warmed up (and really, you don't.. ours eat it right out of the fridge just fine) is put it in a baggy, toss in a bowl of warm water.


----------



## Brodysmom

today I just fed Brody his medallion straight out of the fridge and he ate it fine! So I won't nuke it anymore. It was only 5 seconds. Just enough to take the chill off. But obviously he doesn't care! I was reading on another board that some dogs enjoy the frozen medallions straight out of the freezer! A little meat popsicle!! I haven't tried that yet. ha.


----------



## Muzby

Brodysmom said:


> today I just fed Brody his medallion straight out of the fridge and he ate it fine! So I won't nuke it anymore. It was only 5 seconds. Just enough to take the chill off. But obviously he doesn't care! I was reading on another board that some dogs enjoy the frozen medallions straight out of the freezer! A little meat popsicle!! I haven't tried that yet. ha.


Those meat popsicles are GREAT during summer! Also a good thing to fill a Kong with and freeze for trips to the beach, etc.


----------



## BABY BABS

So it's been another week or so now. How is Brody doing on his medallions? In fact how is any of the pups that recently started on NV?


----------



## Brodysmom

Woo Hoo Brody is doing GREAT! He has eaten one a day since I started him on it 3 weeks ago. I think this is day 19? Anyway, I quit keeping track but he is doing really good on the NV medallions. Lots of energy, small stools with very little odor, shiny coat, etc. I'm very pleased. He's still on them 50% of the time, as he still gets his Orijen Puppy and his Nupro supplement in the morning and then the NV in the evening. He's even gained a little weight and isn't so dang skinny anymore! He looks really good. He's still lean, but his ribs aren't showing like they were. He looks really healthy.

Thanks for asking. I'm just thrilled to death!! 

Brodysmom


----------



## Muzby

WOOWOO! BRODY!

*clears some more space on the Dark Side for other new people*

Good to hear he's doing well! The poop really is the best part. People think you're crazy gushing over the glorious tiny poops until they see them for themselves.  

Can't wait for the day one of you girls takes the plunge to all raw with me!  I hate being the only crazy one on here. LOL


----------



## rcj1095

Oh, that really pleases me Tracy. All good over here. Mine absolutely love theirs. They know when they are getting it and they line up like I do at a TJMaxx sale. It's a wonderful product and I also switched to the NV kibble which mine adore. I give them that with the nupro and all is well. They look forward to both meals and occasionally I skip all of it and make them eat the plain kibble just to be sure they will and they do. They aren't as happy but they will eat it.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

*Thumbs up!! Doing great!*

The chi gang is doing great on their NV! It's been 14 going on 15 days!!!

I have Lily, Lila, and Maxx on 1 medallion for breakfast. Lola gets a half of a medallion since she is only 3.5 pounds. I mix it with half a scoop of the Nupro. They LOVE it!
For dinner they get their Karma Organic kibble. They also get another half scoop of the Nupro mixed with a tablespoon of water on the side. My chi's don't really like it on their kibble, so they get separately.

I also started adding back in their 3V caps. They get that every other day.

I am soooo glad I gave it a try. They are doing so well on it, and I feel like I am doing something that's good for them.

I totally recommend it!!
Thanks to everyone that has helped along the way!!!


----------



## rcj1095

Muzby said:


> WOOWOO! BRODY!
> 
> *clears some more space on the Dark Side for other new people*
> 
> Good to hear he's doing well! The poop really is the best part. People think you're crazy gushing over the glorious tiny poops until they see them for themselves.
> 
> Can't wait for the day one of you girls takes the plunge to all raw with me!  I hate being the only crazy one on here. LOL


You're not crazy, you're awesome. Thank you so much for all the support. We are half way there, right? I'm scared to go all the way into the darkroom!!! LOL.  This was such an easy conversion. I'm open girl!!!


*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> The chi gang is doing great on their NV! It's been 14 going on 15 days!!!
> 
> I have Lily, Lila, and Maxx on 1 medallion for breakfast. Lola gets a half of a medallion since she is only 3.5 pounds. I mix it with half a scoop of the Nupro. They LOVE it!
> For dinner they get their Karma Organic kibble. They also get another half scoop of the Nupro mixed with a tablespoon of water on the side. My chi's don't really like it on their kibble, so they get separately.
> 
> I also started adding back in their 3V caps. They get that every other day.
> 
> I am soooo glad I gave it a try. They are doing so well on it, and I feel like I am doing something that's good for them.
> 
> I totally recommend it!!
> Thanks to everyone that has helped along the way!!!


Yea!!! All good news. My little's get half of one also. They get so excited, I should take a picture or video or something. It's pretty funny to watch. I'm so glad it's working for your guys too. Glad we tried it!!! How's the bed palace? Are they still loving their spots?


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

rcj1095 said:


> Yea!!! All good news. My little's get half of one also. They get so excited, I should take a picture or video or something. It's pretty funny to watch. I'm so glad it's working for your guys too. Glad we tried it!!! How's the bed palace? Are they still loving their spots?



Thanks Robin! Aren't you glad we listened to the others, and gave it a try.
I'm so happy it is working out for you too! Doesn't it feel good knowing your doing good by them? That's good that you switched to the NV kibble. I wanted to try it to, but they don't have an organic one. I know, I'm a nut case with all this organic stuff, but I can't help it. Lol!

The chi's still love their palace. Lol. Thanks for asking.


----------



## TashaZ

Just out of interest, how many grams/ounces/kilos/pounds is one medallion? ie, how much do you feed your chis per day?

We don't have that brand here in Australia but we have a similar frozen raw food which i thaw out and give to mine BUT it only comes in one size which i find is too big and therefore lasts three night feeds (and i give them freshly cooked stuff in the morning).

In the morning about 50grams = 1.7ounces
At night about 70grams = 2.4ounces
120grams = 4.1ounces per day (plus treats)

My vet said they're a perfect weight and healthy so i guess i'm feeding them alright, but i just never know when enough's enough with food. I mean if i was to keep presenting them with food they'd never stop eating, they don't know the meaning of full HAHA


----------



## lilbabyvenus

One medallion is 1 ounce. Venus is 13 lbs, and I feed her 2 medallions per day, plus 1/2 cup of wellness core, but she rarely eats all her kibble. She always wants to hold out for her raw dinner.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Natures Variety Raw comes in three different sizes

- 8 oz. Patties 
- 1 oz. Medallions
- 2 lbs. Chubs 

Their website has a feeding guide where you can enter in your dogs weight, activity level, percentage of dry/canned/raw you feed them, and they will tell you how much to give.

This is the link if your interested.

http://www.naturesvariety.com/feedguide


----------



## mom 2 Nacho BellGrande

Ok, I got two bags today with the buy one get one free coupon. Thanks for letting us know about that. 

I was wondering something. I was planning to thaw one medallion in the bowl they will eat it from. When it is in the fridge thawing does it need to be covered?


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

mom 2 Nacho BellGrande said:


> Ok, I got two bags today with the buy one get one free coupon. Thanks for letting us know about that.
> 
> I was wondering something. I was planning to thaw one medallion in the bowl they will eat it from. When it is in the fridge thawing does it need to be covered?



I always cover mine with saran wrap. It's raw food and I don't want it to contaminate anything in the fridge.

Their going to will love NV. Please let us know how it goes.


I see your from the bay area. Me too!!


----------



## mom 2 Nacho BellGrande

That's cool, the bay area rocks. Thanks for the help


----------



## Brodysmom

I take out 2-3 at a time and put them in a baggy in the fridge. Or you could put in tupperware, etc. Just treat it like you would were taking package of frozen chicken out of your freezer and into your fridge. (Don't leave more than a couple days, etc.)

If they don't like it cold, straight from the fridge, you can leave it out for a little while on your counter or put it in a baggy and let it sit in a bowl of warm water to take the chill off. (Thanks Muzby for the tip!) Brody just eats his straight out of the fridge, no problem.

Brodysmom


----------



## carrera

2 weeks ago i tried to get this from the retailer i selected for the coupon and they looked at me like i was crazy when i asked for it, they obviously no longer carried it. And I couldnt find it at pet supplies plus, but "the pet loft" by us carries it of course, that is the only place that carries orijen around here too! 
not sure if you were able to find it Robin but the pet loft shouldnt be too far from you if you wanted to get it their instead of having it shipped. they can normally have it shipped within a week if they dont already have it. its located off 77 on ghent rd just before ira if your familiar with the area at all. 

...i guess were jumping on the raw wagon as well


----------



## rcj1095

carrera said:


> 2 weeks ago i tried to get this from the retailer i selected for the coupon and they looked at me like i was crazy when i asked for it, they obviously no longer carried it. And I couldnt find it at pet supplies plus, but "the pet loft" by us carries it of course, that is the only place that carries orijen around here too!
> not sure if you were able to find it Robin but the pet loft shouldnt be too far from you if you wanted to get it their instead of having it shipped. they can normally have it shipped within a week if they dont already have it. its located off 77 on ghent rd just before ira if your familiar with the area at all.
> 
> ...i guess were jumping on the raw wagon as well


Okay, so good to know. Pet Supplies Plus doesn't carry it anymore at least around me. I'm way familiar with that area. I work in Fairlawn and my Mom lives off Granger so that area isn't far at all. They carry the frozen? Do they accept the coupon? Thanks Carrera. I'll be needing some. You will love, love, love it. Mine get so excited it's not even funny!!!


----------



## carrera

I went out and picked it up right after i posted, yes they carry it and yes they take the coupon. its in the big white freezer by the door. i LOVE this store, they only carry the best stuff! i bought the chicken and the lamb and my total came to around $16.53 which isnt too bad considering the two bags will last a long time for us. 
right when i got home i wanted them to try it so i took out one medallion and smashed it up, most pieces where thawed enough by doing that. carrera smelled it and walked away, and this was the first thing that chicco hesitated with, i think because it was pretty cold. chicco tried a tiny piece then gobbled it up, i had to actually put a piece in carreras mouth and even after tasting it she wasnt sure, but once chicco tried to get hers she ate it quicker, didnt seem too impressed though. i'm going to see how she takes to it next time when its 100% thawed.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

carrera said:


> I went out and picked it up right after i posted, yes they carry it and yes they take the coupon. its in the big white freezer by the door. i LOVE this store, they only carry the best stuff! i bought the chicken and the lamb and my total came to around $16.53 which isnt too bad considering the two bags will last a long time for us.
> right when i got home i wanted them to try it so i took out one medallion and smashed it up, most pieces where thawed enough by doing that. carrera smelled it and walked away, and this was the first thing that chicco hesitated with, i think because it was pretty cold. chicco tried a tiny piece then gobbled it up, i had to actually put a piece in carreras mouth and even after tasting it she wasnt sure, but once chicco tried to get hers she ate it quicker, didnt seem too impressed though. i'm going to see how she takes to it next time when its 100% thawed.



Wow! You got it at a great price!! I paid $27.00 for a bag of the NV raw at my pet store. Hmmm, I wonder why it's so much more :foxes15:.

I'm glad your trying it. Your chi babies will love it!!
Let us know how it goes.


----------



## mom 2 Nacho BellGrande

When I went to get my two bags yesterday, all of the flavors were $16.99 except the organic chicken which was $24.99. I wonder why yours are different?


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Okay, I went back to the store to buy some treats and I checked the NV prices out. 
I did buy the organic chicken, so it cost more.

They also had raw frozen bones. Has anyone gave their chi's the NV bones yet? They are thick, so I'm curious if a chi can take on such a big bone???


----------



## Brodysmom

I haven't tried the raw frozen bones. I think that's something I could probably do myself with a chicken wing tip. I actually did get up the nerve to try it a couple weeks ago. Brody licked the raw wing tip and really smelled it, but then he hid it in his bed. He was kind of guarding it. So I don't know if he was planning on saving it for later or what? But I didn't want a raw chicken piece laying in his bed (yucky) so I took him outside and then removed it when he wasn't looking. He spent a long time digging around in his bed trying to find it!! I may try again later. 

Brodysmom


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Brodysmom said:


> I haven't tried the raw frozen bones. I think that's something I could probably do myself with a chicken wing tip. I actually did get up the nerve to try it a couple weeks ago. Brody licked the raw wing tip and really smelled it, but then he hid it in his bed. He was kind of guarding it. So I don't know if he was planning on saving it for later or what? But I didn't want a raw chicken piece laying in his bed (yucky) so I took him outside and then removed it when he wasn't looking. He spent a long time digging around in his bed trying to find it!! I may try again later.
> 
> Brodysmom



That so funny, and exactly what Lila would do. 
I would like to try giving it to them, but like you said I wouldn't want raw meat lying around the house. Even if it was for a few minutes. Yuck!
I am still so scared to give them chicken bones. I know raw
bones are supposed to be okay, but It freaks me out.


----------



## Muzby

You know, maybe tomorrow I will get a video of Betty eating her raw chicken bones. Would that help ease your minds, do you think?

Also, I would hesitate to give them bigger bones.. big bones are often referred to as "rec bones" and raw feeders call them "WRECK bones" because they can crack teeth. Stick with smaller, soft bones. Most dogs who are new to raw don't even understand they are supposed to EAT the thing for the first few times.  I always suggest serving the bone WITH dinner so they realize it is something they are supposed to eat, as it's served with din dins.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Lol! 
Kelly, if you wouldn't mind, a video of Betty eating a bone would actually be great.

This may sound dumb, but does it matter the size of the chi? Lola is 3.5 pounds and has a tiny mouth. Will she be able to crunch up the bones enough so she won't choke on them? All my chi's are little piggies and will swallow food whole. 
What kind of chicken piece can I give them? Breast, wing, thigh?
Do I just give them the whole piece, bone & meat?

We have to get you a siggy!


----------



## lilbabyvenus

mom 2 Nacho BellGrande said:


> When I went to get my two bags yesterday, all of the flavors were $16.99 except the organic chicken which was $24.99. I wonder why yours are different?


Holy smokes!! All of them here are $12.99 (including organic chicken).


----------



## mom 2 Nacho BellGrande

My boys tried the NV raw today for the first time and they loved it. They scarfed it down in 1 to 2 minutes! And they licked their bowls clean. I'm glad they love it but now I'm just wondering if they will still eat their kibble for breakfast or if they are gonna just hold out for the raw.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Yea! I knew they would love it!


----------



## Muzby

Alright, first half of the video series on Betty Eating Bone is done *with cameos from FatDog, ofcourse* I just need to wait until dinner so she finished her meal. 

Betty is 5 lbs and eats ribs, necks, wings, backs, legs, thighs, etc. Even a pork bone or two (but I take them away when she's done knawing). I would say at first, take it slow.. backs are the biggest I'd go at first. Then later when they're eating raw all the time, you can jump to thighs and legs (more load bearing bones).

Bah, siggys aren't that important..  Just think of me as "that girl with no siggy". LOL


----------



## rcj1095

mom 2 Nacho BellGrande said:


> My boys tried the NV raw today for the first time and they loved it. They scarfed it down in 1 to 2 minutes! And they licked their bowls clean. I'm glad they love it but now I'm just wondering if they will still eat their kibble for breakfast or if they are gonna just hold out for the raw.


Mine still eat breakfast. If they don't they can just wait. I do the NV kibble in the am with nupro and warm water and the NV medallions for dinner. Once in a great while, I will skip a day of the medallions and give them just kibble just so they know they will eat the kibble also, period!!! 

Kelly has been an amazing teacher to us but I'm scared to go just raw. The few times I leave town, I'd be afraid for anyone watching them to have to do raw. The medallions work so well for my gang but that's all I've tried "raw" so far.


----------



## barefoot

Here is my thread with Pippa eating a chicken wing.

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?t=40798&highlight=pippa


----------



## N*T*M*4U

Now I want to try this too!!!...LOL..


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

barefoot said:


> Here is my thread with Pippa eating a chicken wing.
> 
> http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?t=40798&highlight=pippa


Thanks! 
Pippa eats that chicken right up. It looks simple enough.



N*T*M*4U said:


> Now I want to try this too!!!...LOL..


Moni, you should definitely try it!! Your chi's will love it. 
Tracy, Kelly, and Robin can help with any questions you have. I think all us "newbies" to NV have been successful with it, and have no complaints. Use the Nupro too. That stuff is WONDERFUL!! 
Remeber if you do try it to get the buy one get one free coupon.


----------



## BABY BABS

Muzby, is my computer screwing up? I didn't get a link to the video you had.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

I didn't see or get the link either. I don't think she posted it yet. If she did my computer is screwed up too!


----------



## Muzby

No link yet! I shall try and get to it tomorrow (I am such a slacker sometimes!).


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Lol! No problem.


----------



## mom 2 Nacho BellGrande

Can someone who is feeding both the raw and kibble to their chis under one year tell me how much of each they are feeding? I used the calculator on the site but I would just like to hear how much everyone else is doing daily.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

mom 2 Nacho BellGrande said:


> Can someone who is feeding both the raw and kibble to their chis under one year tell me how much of each they are feeding? I used the calculator on the site but I would just like to hear how much everyone else is doing daily.


All my chi's are over a year old, but Maxx just turned one in May. So I'm not sure this will help.

I give them all one medallion each for breakfast, except Lola she gets a half because she is only 3.5 pounds.

For dinner they get their dry kibble. I set down their kibble and let them eat as much as they want then when they aren't interested in the food anymore I pick it up.


----------



## Brodysmom

Brody is 9 months. He gets his Orijen puppy kibble/Nupro supplement in the morning and then one medallion at supper time.

Brodysmom


----------



## BABY BABS

Oh, good. I'm glad you hadn't posted the video yet. I thought it was operator error on my part. lol


----------



## carrera

So were at day 3 of this, chicco now eats it without even smelling it first but carrera is still not convinced. 
Yesterday I tried mixing in some cheese with it and she just picked out the cheese, then i tried it again and this time mixed it better and she tried everything in her power to get the cheese out. she ate maybe 1/4 of the madallion just because she wanted the cheese and then she just walked away and chicco ate it. 
we'll try again tonight...


----------



## Muzby

Okay ladies, bad news. The videos are too big to upload to PhotoBucket, and I don't know what to do! Any other easy to upload places I can use?


----------



## N*T*M*4U

Muzby said:


> Okay ladies, bad news. The videos are too big to upload to PhotoBucket, and I don't know what to do! Any other easy to upload places I can use?


how's about youtube?


----------



## Muzby

*slaps forehead*

Okay, uploading all I have for now.. more Betty specific bone eating later.


----------



## rcj1095

Okay, Cooper is 8 lbs. He gets 1/2 to 2/3 cup nv kibble with nupro in the am and 1 medallion at night. Sometimes I'll give him two medallions but gotcha watch his weight. Doxies cannot be overweight cuz of their little legs.

Coco is 4 lbs. and gets 1/3 cup or so kibble with nupro in the am and 1 medallion at night.

Chloe is 2.7 lbs. and gets 1/4 cup kibble with nupro in the am and 1/2 medallion at night and a small amount of kibble in her playpen to nibble on for free feeding.

Lily is 2 lbs. and gets exactly what Chloe gets.

Mine love and adore the nv kibble and nupro and medallions. They have never been happier with food and their little poopies are brown and hard and hardly have any odor. They are so thrilled and so am I.


----------



## mom 2 Nacho BellGrande

Ok thanks. My boys are both 4lbs and I'm feeding them each half a cup of kibble in the morning and one medallion at night. It's just that they gobble the medallion up so fast each night that I feel like I'm starving them. They literally only take like 30 seconds to eat it and then they look at me like they want more.


----------



## rcj1095

mom 2 Nacho BellGrande said:


> Ok thanks. My boys are both 4lbs and I'm feeding them each half a cup of kibble in the morning and one medallion at night. It's just that they gobble the medallion up so fast each night that I feel like I'm starving them. They literally only take like 30 seconds to eat it and then they look at me like they want more.


That's exactly what goes on over here. It's hilarious. It literally takes them seconds to eat it. I figure they are getting plenty with both meals so I don't worry.


----------



## Muzby

Okay, three videos.. ignore my commentary unless it relates to the raw feeding!  Also, I say it in the video but I will repeat here: Please forgive her stained eating blanket - we wash it often, but the stains don't go away!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IwUKwUTBGQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziD5yd2hYy8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeWM4nC9G3E

Edit: I will be adding a video of Betty all excited over dinner soon!


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

I printed out my coupon, I plan at some point to try this for Bailey.


----------



## barefoot

Muzby said:


> Okay, three videos.. ignore my commentary unless it relates to the raw feeding!  Also, I say it in the video but I will repeat here: Please forgive her stained eating blanket - we wash it often, but the stains don't go away!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IwUKwUTBGQ
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziD5yd2hYy8
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeWM4nC9G3E
> 
> Edit: I will be adding a video of Betty all excited over dinner soon!


Awesome! Thank you for sharing that. I think people need to see it first to have confidence to do it. 
We are nearly back to full time raw! Yeah!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Kelly these video's are great! Thank you so much for taking the time to do that for us. 
Betty seemed to have no problem with it. It was really kinda exciting to see her chew that up.
About how big is the piece of chicken that you gave her? I think you mentioned it was a chicken back, right? 
I really want to give it a try, but I have to admit I'm still nervous.

Thank you again for the videos. You have been such a big help with all my raw food questions.


----------



## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Kelly these video's are great! Thank you so much for taking the time to do that for us.
> Betty seemed to have no problem with it. It was really kinda exciting to see her chew that up.
> About how big is the piece of chicken that you gave her? I think you mentioned it was a chicken back, right?
> I really want to give it a try, but I have to admit I'm still nervous.
> 
> Thank you again for the videos. You have been such a big help with all my raw food questions.


Yep, ditto. Thanks so much for all your help. I'm very nervous also but I'm so willing to try.


----------



## Muzby

Glad you appreciate it! I have some pics from today (BBQ on the farm) of her eating a turkey wing, too. YUM!

It was maybe 4inches long, 2inches wide, piece of chicken back.  She also did NOT finish it that meal, just pulled the meat off and the skin.. she ate the rest at dinner. 

I will try and chronicle more of her meals for you guys, different things.. her meatymeals will be funny, she just INHALES them and that's that (if its small enough).

To be honest, the only thing shes had a choking scare with was a piece of cow tongue that I left too much grissle on (she can't chew as well as the cats can, man those cat teeth are SHARP) and she swallowed a piece - had the rest hanging from her mouth by a "string".. no choking while I was watching, but thank gosh I watched that time (I watch with all NEW meats/meals to see she can handle it). Bones have never been an issue.


----------



## Zethsmommy

Thank you all for the wealth of info on this post. I just sent away for my coupon. I have 4 stores within 1 mile of my home that sell the raw food. I'm going to try Zeth and my Shiba mix on this. I'm hoping to feed dry kibble in the am and the medallions in the evening. At present I have Zeth on Wellness for small breeds and Sandy is on Blue Wilderness. Sandy will eat anything you toss her way but she has skin allergies which the Blue wilderness has helped tremendously.


----------



## Chico's Mum

Brodysmom said:


> http://www.naturesvariety.com/raw_products
> 
> I've heard really good things about this food. It comes frozen into medallions and you just take out the portion from the freezer and thaw overnight and then feed the next day. It's supposed to be super easy and convenient, with all the benefits of the raw diet and none of the mess. It's already portioned out of the correct balance of muscle/organ/veggies/vitamins.
> 
> Brody is such a BAD eater. I just would love to find something he would enjoy eating and that he would eat with gusto and do well on. Don't get me wrong.... he looks great on Orijen and I'm happy with his skin/coat/activity level and stools, etc. It's just that he doesn't seem to like ANY food I give him. He likes it for a couple meals and then he quits liking it and it's another battle to get him to eat. He likes his treats and loves his Kona's Chips, so it's not that he doesn't like any food! Just not crazy about dog food.
> 
> I wonder if I could just use this as a supplement to kibble? Like mix it in with his kibble or something? I'm so scared to go to an all raw diet.
> 
> Opinions??


It's like I could have written this. 
Chico is the same. He does not seems to enjoy his food. He just eat it because there is nothing else I will give him. But it's sad to see that. I also want him to love what he eats. 
I see how happy he is when he eats his treats I want to see it also when he eats his food. 

I will tray the raw and see if it works.


----------



## pam6400

Chico's Mum said:


> It's like I could have written this.
> Chico is the same. He does not seems to enjoy his food. He just eat it because there is nothing else I will give him. But it's sad to see that. I also want him to love what he eats.
> I see how happy he is when he eats his treats I want to see it also when he eats his food.
> 
> I will tray the raw and see if it works.


Hi Fadhila, this is how I felt too. I want Frankie to ENJOY his meals like he enjoys his treats. It is sad to see him just stand there in front of his dish not eating. Ben will eat anything, but Frankie does not like much...... I will keep offering him the NV raw.


----------



## pam6400

*Any suggestions to help Frankie like the NV?*

Ben loves it, we are now on day 5. Frankie will not touch it. Any suggestions? I will try anything. I guess I want them BOTH to love it too much.


----------



## Brodysmom

Will Frankie eat it if you pick it up and let him lick it off your fingers? What about feeding him close to Ben and see if he will eat it so Ben won't get it? You could even take a little bit of it from Frankie's plate and give it to Ben in front of him and see if that will make him eat it? (I know, kind of mean, but I have to do that for Brody sometimes and give a lick to the cats for him to want to eat. He's such a PAIN.)

I hope others have good suggestions for you!! 

Brodysmom


----------



## Muzby

You can warm it with tap water (make a soup) the first few times, even sear it on a pan to cook some good smell into it. Anything to get him to eat it at first, then he will realize how yummy it is.  Sprinkle some dry food on top, or mix it with canned.

Keep trying!


----------



## barefoot

To encourage our cats to eat raw years ago we added tuna. Or the tuna juice.


----------



## BABY BABS

Pam6400, have you tried a different flavor for Frankie? Maybe another flavor would be more appealing to him.


----------



## pam6400

Brodysmom said:


> Will Frankie eat it if you pick it up and let him lick it off your fingers? What about feeding him close to Ben and see if he will eat it so Ben won't get it? You could even take a little bit of it from Frankie's plate and give it to Ben in front of him and see if that will make him eat it? (I know, kind of mean, but I have to do that for Brody sometimes and give a lick to the cats for him to want to eat. He's such a PAIN.)
> 
> I hope others have good suggestions for you!!
> 
> Brodysmom


Haaaa Tracy, teasing huh? Tomorrow I will put their plates close together and I will also take a taste from Frankie and give to Ben. Honestly, I will try anything. Tonight when I got the food ready and placed it down Frankie ran into the bedroom!!!! How sad to be afraid of dinner.......


----------



## pam6400

Muzby said:


> You can warm it with tap water (make a soup) the first few times, even sear it on a pan to cook some good smell into it. Anything to get him to eat it at first, then he will realize how yummy it is.  Sprinkle some dry food on top, or mix it with canned.
> 
> Keep trying!


Good idea trying to sear it real quick to make it smell appealing. Thanks everyone - I will try. He ran away from his dinner plate tonight right into the bedroom like I was trying to poison him! Ben just licked his plate clean!!!!


----------



## rcj1095

Frankie's being stubborn, huh? Wonder why it's not appealing to him??? Great ideas, the searing and different flavors and all that. Keep us posted. Try all the tricks girl, you can do it.:foxes15:


----------



## BABY BABS

Oh, poor Frankie. Does he show any interest in meat as you are cooking it for the familty? Have you ever fed him people food? If so, when he begs for yours, would he try the raw if he thought it came off your plate?


----------



## pam6400

BABY BABS said:


> Oh, poor Frankie. Does he show any interest in meat as you are cooking it for the familty? Have you ever fed him people food? If so, when he begs for yours, would he try the raw if he thought it came off your plate?


Oh yes, he certainly has enjoyed some people food. He especially likes any meat that we grill outside. His favorite is the "crunchy" edges of grilled steak or chicken. Maybe it is the texture of the raw?


----------



## carrera

So I think were at our 10th day and carrera finally ate it plain and by herself. prior to this I had to mix it with wet food and even then she would hesitate and chicco would always end up grabbing most of it. heres why i think it worked today- she didn't eat much last night and then hadnt eaten this morning and we also went on an hour walk last night right before bed as well as an hour walk this morning. I think she was so hungry after that, that anything looked appealing! what took chicco 10 seconds to eat it took carrera 3 but atleast she ate it, and ate it all and didn't let chicco have it. hopefully this keeps up...

keep at it pam!


----------



## pam6400

carrera said:


> So I think were at our 10th day and carrera finally ate it plain and by herself. prior to this I had to mix it with wet food and even then she would hesitate and chicco would always end up grabbing most of it. heres why i think it worked today- she didn't eat much last night and then hadnt eaten this morning and we also went on an hour walk last night right before bed as well as an hour walk this morning. I think she was so hungry after that, that anything looked appealing! what took chicco 10 seconds to eat it took carrera 3 but atleast she ate it, and ate it all and didn't let chicco have it. hopefully this keeps up...
> 
> keep at it pam!


Oh how encouraging! I told Robin that I am holding off dinner tonight for a couple hours hoping that if Frankie is starving hungry he may eat it. Thanks for giving me hope. Today is day 6.


----------



## hdynad

I have had Jack on it for over a year now, Jill and Phoebe eat it as well and like it.

good luck


----------



## pam6400

*Frankie turned a corner.*

OK. I am whispering... I don't want to jinx it. 
This morning Frankie ate 4 bites out of my hand. Would not finish rest on his dish......
Tonight he ate a little over 1/2 a medallion but only out of my hand. When I stopped feeding him from my hand he just stood there. So yes, I finished feeding him the other 1/2 out of my hand.
Now I need to figure out how to get him to eat it out of his dish. So we know he likes it!!!!!!!!
Shhhhhhh....... Tomorrow is another day!


----------



## rcj1095

pam6400 said:


> OK. I am whispering... I don't want to jinx it.
> This morning Frankie ate 4 bites out of my hand. Would not finish rest on his dish......
> Tonight he ate a little over 1/2 a medallion but only out of my hand. When I stopped feeding him from my hand he just stood there. So yes, I finished feeding him the other 1/2 out of my hand.
> Now I need to figure out how to get him to eat it out of his dish. So we know he likes it!!!!!!!!
> Shhhhhhh....... Tomorrow is another day!


I'll never tell...


----------



## Muzby

*whispers* YAY FRANKIE!

FatDog would only eat raw if I hand fed her too, AND it had to be mixed with canned food.  Picky diva!

Now, she mows any raw I give her with gusto! It took her maybe 1 week of handfeeding raw for her to just eat it on her own. It also helps that Betty was always begging for it, so your other baby will help Frankie want to eat it too.


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## BABY BABS

Yeah, Frankie (very quietly). Hopefully he'll get the hang of it. But, I'm feeding raw because I couldn't get my two to switch to any decent food. I tried Canidae, Royal Canine, something that starts with an "N". I'd put it down and they go look for wood pellets and cat food to eat. However, they always showed interest in our meats for meals, so I tried raw. It may be that some dogs just won't eat what we want them to, even if it's good for them.


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## pam6400

*Frankie saga continues*

Ok, still whispering. Frankie would only eat 4 bites again out of my hand. Hmmm maybe not a breakfast guy after all. I left the dish for 15 more min. then picked it up. 
Dinner time will tell. Thanks for all the encouragement.


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## Zethsmommy

I'm on day 3 of feeding raw to Zeth. I got my free coupon and decided to give this a try.

Day 1 Breakfast 1/8 cup Wellness for small breeds, Dinner was 1 medallion raw. Poor Zeth......he stared at his bowl for a full 5 minutes. Then he started walking around the bowl sniffing it. Then he put his paw in it and shook it on the floor. He snifffed and sniffed but never licked it. After a good 15 minutes, I picked it up. I added a few pieces of Wellness kibble to it and stirred it with some warm boiled water and placed it back down. More sniffing and then he very carefully picked out each of the soggy kibbles and placed them on the floor. I called in my other dog Sandy who had already scarfed her food down and had her lay down right next to Zeth's bowl. Well Zeth decided then that what was in his bowl and on the floor was his. He for the next 20 minutes continued to lick and eat everything keeping an eye on his big sister as she slowly crept closer and closer. Zeth is one of the slowest eating dogs I have every seen. He savours every bite.

Day 2 Breakfast was wellness kibble and dinner was 1 medallion with a few pieces of wellness. Same thing. We walked all around the bowl for a good 10 or 15 minutes just staring at it. I again added the water and spoon fed him this time. He managed to eat his dinner over the course of 30 minutes. My knees will never be the same. All that squatting down to feed him almost killed me. Ever time I went to stand up he cried. If I sat on the floor he thought that was his key to crawl in my lap and take a nap. 

Today Day 3-breakfast 1 medallion and 12 pieces of wellness kibble mixed in with a little warm water. I set Zeth's bowl and his big sister Sandy's bowl on the floor and low and behold he dug right in at his pace. It took him 20 minutes to eat it but I didn't have to help him in anyway. I'm also giving Sandy 1 or 2 medallions a day along with her regular kibble. Sandy on the other hand will eat anything you give her. 

So far so good. 

Good Luck with Frankie


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## pam6400

OMG that is wonderful news! I guess there is still hope. I cannot squat down to hand feed him everytime. I know what you mean about the knees. Am I giving away my age? ha.
I actually have to touch the food to his mouth. Then he starts to smell it on my finger, then he takes a lick. This process takes soooooooooo long!
I really don't know if he is convinced that he likes it. Let's see what dinner time brings.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Since this is the most popular thread for the NV Raw, and also the Nupro I thought I would ask my question here.
I was looking around the web looking for places to buy more Nupro when I came across this website. I noticed that the amount they say to give dogs is different then what it says on the tub of Nupro. Can someone check out the link and tell me what you think? If this is the correct amount then I am giving way to much to my chi's.
It's called the Nupro Store. Here is the link.

http://www.nuprostore.com/nuprodog.html 






Okay, I went to the actual Nupro website and answered my own question. Lol. The recommended daily amounts are listed on the various labels for the 30 ounce, 5 pound and 20 pound sizes, not for the small breed.


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## Brodysmom

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Okay, I went to the actual Nupro website and answered my own question. Lol. The recommended daily amounts are listed on the various labels for the 30 ounce, 5 pound and 20 pound sizes, not for the small breed.


Lisa, I'm glad you clarified that! I was like OH NOOOO!! ha. Good to know that there are different amounts for different sizes, that does make sense. I am just doing one scoop a day now for Brody, in the morning, with his teaspoon of canned and his Orijen puppy. He is maintaining well on this amount.

Brodysmom


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## pam6400

*Frankie*

Well today is day 9 and Frankie still does not want to eat the NV. I really have tried many different tactics, hand feeding, searing it in a pan, pretending it was MY food from MY plate, etc..... I guess I am convinced now that this is just not for him.


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## Brodysmom

pam6400 said:


> Well today is day 9 and Frankie still does not want to eat the NV. I really have tried many different tactics, hand feeding, searing it in a pan, pretending it was MY food from MY plate, etc..... I guess I am convinced now that this is just not for him.


Well crud!! I was hoping you'd say that he was eating it now. I guess we just got lucky with our PICKY BOYS.  Brody is still eating his one medallion a day, we are almost done with the first bag, so he's been on it more than a month. I bought the beef flavor yesterday so I'm going to try that when I finish this bag and I still have a bag of chicken in the freezer. Thought I'd switch it up a bit. 

The good news is that Brody IS eating it. The bad news is that he's not thrilled with it, but what else is new. I feel your pain. I really do. He eats it, but only because I call the cats in and pretend like I'm giving it to them and he eats it because he doesn't want them to have it! If I just leave it on a plate he'll just pick at it.

I'm jealous of everyone's dogs who are good, hearty eaters. Having a picky eater is TERRIBLE. 

Brodysmom


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## BABY BABS

Oh, I'm sorry guys. I was so hoping both of yours would decide to like to eat. I'm sure you worry about their pickiness. It takes Babs over 1/2 hour to eat her meal. But she was that slow when eating kibble too. She'd take a couple of pieces out of the bowl, carry them to the living room and make another trip in several minutes. I've always wondered if I went to the freezer, took a spoonful of ice cream, carried it to the living room and then took 5 minutes to eat it, would I keep my figure like she does? lol


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## Brodysmom

BABY BABS said:


> Oh, I'm sorry guys. I was so hoping both of yours would decide to like to eat. I'm sure you worry about their pickiness. It takes Babs over 1/2 hour to eat her meal. But she was that slow when eating kibble too. She'd take a couple of pieces out of the bowl, carry them to the living room and make another trip in several minutes. I've always wondered if I went to the freezer, took a spoonful of ice cream, carried it to the living room and then took 5 minutes to eat it, would I keep my figure like she does? lol


Now that is funny!!! ROTFL!!


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## Zethsmommy

Oh sorry to hear Frankie's not eating his.

Today was day 4 for Zeth. Breakfast this morning was 1 medallion and a few pieces of wellness. He sniffed it, walked around a bit and then walked away to do his morning poop.
He came back looked at the bowl and stared at me and started doing his whinning act. I took out the spoon and began to spoon feed him and continued to do so till he was finished 20 minutes later.

I guess he has me trained. When Zeth was a puppy, I always hand fed him his wet food. He's been on dry kibble for almost 6 months eating by himself. I wonder if he associates the wet with his puppy days?


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## rcj1095

I'm so glad we have our own little NV "support" group here. Mine love it so much I feel bad giving them the kibble. :foxes15: Still afraid to stop the kibble yet and it's kinda expensive for four dogs but I may end up doing it eventually. Not to be gross, but the poop that comes out of them is so small, firm and healthy, it's amazing. I'm sorry for the picky eaters (I have one of them, she's eight and her name is Mackenzie). One day she likes chicken and steak, the next day she doesn't. AGH!!! She would eat nuggets and fries for every meal if I let her. :foxes15:


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## Zethsmommy

I'm still laughing over Baby Babs comment about the ice cream as I wolf down a plate of homemade nacho's.

Anyway for the past hour Zeth has been crying and crying. Back and forth to the refrigerator and me, just whinning up a storm. I finally realized it was past his dinner time. I got out the NV medallions, one for Zeth and one for Sandy I put a few of eaches kibble mixed in and then placed 3 kibbles of NV instinct Rabbit Kibble I just got from the store with my free coupon for the 4.4lb bag.

OMG both dogs scarfed down dinner together thoroughly licking the entire bowl clean. 

I guess they are liking the Raw diet. This is the first time Zeth ate everything all in one go without taking trips all round. He's right now walking his dish across the floor licking it.
I don't think he realized how fast he ate.


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## Jessica

How ironic! I was just going to post about raw diet and this was the first post in the Chi-Chat section. The vet who Shi has been seeing is very into holistic treatment and really is all for raw diet. She said kibble isn't great and would rather see her on canned food(if I wasn't comfortable doing the raw diet)? But then I asked isn't canned food not as good for their teeth? She said that kibble isn't better and dogs shouldn't really be fed kibble. Since chi's are prone to getting bad teeth, I always just thought kibble was better than canned. Shi does great on the Orijen puppy. Harley is in the process of getting switched to the Orijen adult. I was wondering if I should just mix canned food in with her kibble but now after reading this I want to try splitting the meals one raw, one kibble. I clicked on the Nature Variety's link and there's a place literally 2 min from me that sells it. I think I'm going to have to try this eventually. Also, has anyone ever heard of Platinum Performance supplement?


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## Brodysmom

Jessica said:


> How ironic! I was just going to post about raw diet and this was the first post in the Chi-Chat section. The vet who Shi has been seeing is very into holistic treatment and really is all for raw diet. She said kibble isn't great and would rather see her on canned food(if I wasn't comfortable doing the raw diet)? But then I asked isn't canned food not as good for their teeth? She said that kibble isn't better and dogs shouldn't really be fed kibble. Since chi's are prone to getting bad teeth, I always just thought kibble was better than canned. Shi does great on the Orijen puppy. Harley is in the process of getting switched to the Orijen adult. I was wondering if I should just mix canned food in with her kibble but now after reading this I want to try splitting the meals one raw, one kibble. I clicked on the Nature Variety's link and there's a place literally 2 min from me that sells it. I think I'm going to have to try this eventually. Also, has anyone ever heard of Platinum Performance supplement?


That's awesome that you are going to try the NV! It really is sooo healthy for them. Dont' forget to use your buy one get one free coupon from NV for the raw medallions. And then you can get a FREE 4.5 pound bag of Instinct grain free kibble too. PM me your email address and I'll send it to you. I got in email yesterday and it says you can forward to friends. I'm so glad to hear a holistic vet recommending raw! 

I havent' heard of the supplement. Who makes it? Link?

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

I just went and got my free bags of NV kibble. I signed my sister up to receive stuff from NV, but she doesn't use it, so more for me!
I got two bags of the rabbit food. I also picked up some of that Missing Link supplement to give Lila, since she seemed to be allergic to the Nupro . 
I will let you all know how she does on it.
I'm not sure if I am going to switch their dry kibble to the NV Instinct. 
It was so funny, when I opened the bag and gave them each a couple pieces of kibble, they gobbled it right up like it was a treat. I will use it as training treats for now. They are the perfect size, and to them it is a treat.


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## Brodysmom

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> I just went and got my free bags of NV kibble. I signed my sister up to receive stuff from NV, but she doesn't use the it, so more for me!
> I got two bags of the rabbit food. I also picked up some of that Missing Link supplement to give Lila, since she seemed to be allergic to the Nupro .
> I will let you all know how she does on it.
> I'm not sure if I am going to switch their dry kibble to the NV Instinct.
> It was so funny, when I opened the bag and gave them each a couple pieces of kibble, they gobbled it right up like it was a treat. I will use it as training treats for now. They are the perfect size, and to them it is a treat.


Great job Lisa! I'm so glad you got the free bags. That's awesome. I was going to try the rabbit for Brody and my dumb store only had the HUGE bags! He didn't carry the small bags so I didn't get to use the coupon. Whaaaaaaaa. I did buy a bag of beef medallions to try and see if Brody likes that better than the chicken. 

I think you will like Missing Link. I have our cats on it. The Nupro for cats are pellets and they don't like them. Why oh WHY did I have to get all the picky pets in the world! HA.

Keep us posted on everything. 

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Tracy,
I didn't know I could give the Missing Link to my cat too?? I doubt she will eat it though, she won't eat anything but her cat food. She's a pain in the butt, but very easy to please. Lol. I will try it and see what she does.
Do you know if I can mix the Missing Link with water like I do the Nupro to make a gravy? It says to give less then the recommended amount over a week to two weeks because of the fiber in it. I will have to take it slow. I do have to say that I like the ingredients in the Nupro better.

That's to bad they didn't have the smaller bags for you. Will they get some in soon? 
Let me know how Brody does on the beef raw. If Mr. picky himself will eat it I know my 4 will too.Lol!


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## Brodysmom

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Tracy,
> I didn't know I could give the Missing Link to my cat too?? I doubt she will eat it though, she won't eat anything but her cat food. She's a pain in the butt, but very easy to please. Lol. I will try it and see what she does.
> Do you know if I can mix the Missing Link with water like I do the Nupro to make a gravy? It says to give less then the recommended amount over a week to two weeks because of the fiber in it. I will have to take it slow. I do have to say that I like the ingredients in the Nupro better.
> 
> That's to bad they didn't have the smaller bags for you. Will they get some in soon?
> Let me know how Brody does on the beef raw. If Mr. picky himself will eat it I know my 4 will too.Lol!


There is a feline formula of missing link for the kitties. Don't feed her the dog one.  yes, you can mix the missing link with water and make a gravy, just like the Nupro.

I asked if he was going to get in some small bags and he says he just orders the big ones because that's what his customers buy! So LITTLE dogs don't eat the Instinct? Huh?! Oh well. 

I think it's great that your crew will eat the Instinct like a treat! That's great!

Brodysmom


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## Jessica

Here is the link... take a look! http://www.platinumperformance.com/animal/canine/

I will pm you my email address now.


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## Jessica

Hmm. For some reason I can't send PMs? I will try in a little. Is anyone else having this problem?


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Brodysmom said:


> There is a feline formula of missing link for the kitties. Don't feed her the dog one.  yes, you can mix the missing link with water and make a gravy, just like the Nupro.
> 
> I asked if he was going to get in some small bags and he says he just orders the big ones because that's what his customers buy! So LITTLE dogs don't eat the Instinct? Huh?! Oh well.
> 
> I think it's great that your crew will eat the Instinct like a treat! That's great!
> 
> Brodysmom


Yeah, I won't give her the canine formula. I went and checked the package after my post and saw that it's a canine formula. 

I can't believe they don't have smaller bags. That's just stupid. Is there anywhere else you can get a bag? It's such a great offer, and I would hate for you to miss out on it.
I can't believe they are giving a $17.99 bag of their dog food away for FREE! I wonder why it's limited to only rabbit or duck? I guess that's a good thing because I would have chose the chicken, and this forces me to try something new. 

I tried Lila on the Missing Link and she wanted nothing to do with. I mixed it with water just like I did with the Nupro. I took some of the gravy, and rubbed it on her mouth. She started rubbing her face all over the floor  . 
I will try again in the morning. Maybe she won't notice if it's in her NV.


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## Zethsmommy

What prices is everyone paying for the NV medallions and NV instinct rabbit kibble?

The Chicken Medallions at my local pet store are $12.99 for a 3lb bag (48 medallions). 
The Instinct Rabbit Kibble was $10.99.
So far I've gotten 1 bag of medallions and one bag of Rabbit kibble for free. 

My little fur kids where bad last night. I went down to do laundry last night and was only gone for say 10 minutes. When I came back up to the kitchen my two fur kids managed to get into the bucket where I put the Instinct Rabbit kibble.
The two of them decided they would help themselves to it. Neither dog has ever shown an interest in stealing kibbles before. I guess they really like the Rabbit kibble.


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## pam6400

That price of $12.99 is a great price. I paid $15 for mine.


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## Brodysmom

That is a good price! I just bought Brody the beef medallions and the bag was $17 something. 

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Zethsmommy said:


> What prices is everyone paying for the NV medallions and NV instinct rabbit kibble?
> 
> The Chicken Medallions at my local pet store are $12.99 for a 3lb bag (48 medallions).
> The Instinct Rabbit Kibble was $10.99.
> So far I've gotten 1 bag of medallions and one bag of Rabbit kibble for free.
> 
> My little fur kids where bad last night. I went down to do laundry last night and was only gone for say 10 minutes. When I came back up to the kitchen my two fur kids managed to get into the bucket where I put the Instinct Rabbit kibble.
> The two of them decided they would help themselves to it. Neither dog has ever shown an interest in stealing kibbles before. I guess they really like the Rabbit kibble.


Awww...sounds like they LOVE the rabbit kibble. That's so funny.

You are getting the NV food at a great price!!
I pay $27.99 + tax for the 3 pound bag (48 medallions) of the NV Raw Organic Chicken. The regular chicken is $24.99 + tax, so I pay a few dollars more for the Organic. The NV Instinct bag I got for free, but would have had to pay $17.99 + tax for it.

On the the NV website it says that they are lowering their prices. Yeah, right! When????? :foxes15:


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## Zethsmommy

I have several stores in my area that sell the entire line of NV products. I was amazed at the difference in prices between the two stores within a mile of my home. I also checked some of the web store prices. 
It just amazes me how some stores can justify selling a product for 4 or 5 dollars more for the same product at a store less than a 1/4 mile away. 
I guess it pays to shop around and check prices before purchasing if possible.

I too also read that NV is lowering it's prices. Maybe the store I shopped at already lowered the price.


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## mom 2 Nacho BellGrande

At the store I go to the instinct kibble is $15.99, the frozen raw medallions are $16.99 a bag, and the frozen raw organic checken is $24.99, I think. 
Also there is a sign on the freezer door that says that Nature's Variety has lowered their prices, so I wonder what it was before?


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## KayC

Zoey had her first organic chicken medallion tonight, she loved but was still hungry......She is still free fed on Orijen but was looking for more of the chicken.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Yeah Zoey!!! I'm glad you gave it a try. My chi's look forward to breakfast every morning.


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## Brodysmom

Well, we are back to hand feeding again. Brody decided he didn't want to eat the NV chicken mashed on a plate as I had been doing. He turned up his nose for several meals so I just refrigerated it and fed it the next day and so on until he finally RELUCTANTLY ate it. I finally got disgusted to see him just sit and stare at it and picked it up in my hand and fed him little pieces of it and he ate it that way. Now he expects it that way every night. I take it out of the fridge and just break off tiny pieces of the medallion and feed it to him bite by bite until it's gone. 

It doesn't take that long, just a minute or so, and he seems to like it that way... he is anxious for the next bite. But if I put it on a plate he won't eat it. 

Can you say SPOILED?! He drives me crazy sometimes. 

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Oh Brody! Lol.
At least he is still eating it. I wonder why he thinks it's better when you hand feed it to him? I think he just wants to be pampered, but don't we all? Lol.
Don't worry Tracy, he will start eating it again from his plate. I wouldn't give in to him every time though. He might get to accustomed to it, and always want to be hand feed.Lol! Give Brody a big hig and kiss for me. That little stinker

Okay, you know how I started giving Lila the Missing Link because she was allergic to the Nupro? Well the other night her muzzle got all swollen again! She hasn't had the Nupro at all, and she has been getting the Missing Link every morning for 7 days now. 
Now I don't think it was the Nupro, and I don't think it is the Missing Link either. Her face got swollen on Thursday, and I gave her the Missing Link again on Friday morning, and nothing happened to her. 
Today I decided to give her the Nupro, but not the full amount, and she has been fine so far today. Could it have been a coincidence? Maybe? Something in the air? UGH!
This is driving me nuts!! Could the swelling of her muzzle be something airborne she is allergic to?
I am going to continue the Nupro with her and see how it goes.
Honestly the Missing Link has done absolutely nothing for her. In the 14 days since she has been off the Nupro, her coat has not been the same.


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## Brodysmom

Yes, Brody definitely loves to be pampered. He thinks he's a prince or something. Or make that a KING. ha. It's my fault and I admit it. I need to just buckle down but it's so hard. *sigh*

Wow, that is sooooooooo interesting about Lila's reaction! Oh my gosh!! I'm so sorry that happened, but I'm glad it wasn't the Nupro after all. You know, I really don't know what it could be! It just happens so infrequently to make you think it's not something they are exposed to every day like food, stuff in the house, etc. But it DEFINITELY sounds like an allergy to something. What a mystery. If it WAS an allergy to Nupro, it seems like it would have happened shortly after getting it? I don't know. So frustrating!

So her coat's not the same on the Missing Link? Interesting! I've thought that too about Missing Link as I bought two tubs so far for the cats and I can't tell ANY DIFFERENCE at all in their coats. Nupro only comes in nuggets for cats and they don't like the nuggets. (Story of my LIFE!) So I bought the Missing Link powder and put it in a little canned with water every morning and I think that's just a waste of time and money as their coats don't look any better at all. (Not that they were bad to begin with, but I am not seeing the dramatic difference like I did with Brody.)

Thanks for the update. Keep me posted on Lila!! I wish I had some answers for you.

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Lol! Brody _*is*_ the King of his castle!I know, it's so hard to be tough on these little ones. Even if it is for their own good. Their faces are so convincing. 

Yeah, this thing with Lila is so frustrating, and I haven't a clue what it is. I must say that I am happy that it's not the Nupro though!!
It makes it so hard because I just don't know what is causing it, so how can I protect her from it. I'm so scared it will happen when I am not at home too. 
Anyways, like I said the Missing Link did nothing for her, but it might work for others. I noticed her coat change and not for the better, and the shine she had before faded. 
I'm almost out of my first tub of Nupro so I hope I get the new one I ordered soon!!
I will keep ya posted about Lila. Thanks for being there for me Tracy!


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## rcj1095

OMG, just catching up on this thread. Tracy, that Brody kills me. He is just so funny. At least he's still eating it though.

Lisa, what the heck is going on? That's crazy. I'm glad it isn't the nupro but what on earth could it be? You use any deoderizers, fragrances, candles, anything at all that you do occasionally? That's so wild. Bless her little heart. Just write down when it happens and maybe they'll be a pattern of some sort. It seems so random. I hope it was a fluke and it won't happen again. Please keep us posted. I'm going to get my NV kibble and medallions on Monday. Mine are still loving it and doing great!!! Kiss your babies!!!


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## pam6400

Brodysmom said:


> Well, we are back to hand feeding again. Brody decided he didn't want to eat the NV chicken mashed on a plate as I had been doing. He turned up his nose for several meals so I just refrigerated it and fed it the next day and so on until he finally RELUCTANTLY ate it. I finally got disgusted to see him just sit and stare at it and picked it up in my hand and fed him little pieces of it and he ate it that way. Now he expects it that way every night. I take it out of the fridge and just break off tiny pieces of the medallion and feed it to him bite by bite until it's gone.
> 
> It doesn't take that long, just a minute or so, and he seems to like it that way... he is anxious for the next bite. But if I put it on a plate he won't eat it.
> 
> Can you say SPOILED?! He drives me crazy sometimes.
> 
> Brodysmom


OMG Tracy, this is Frankie! I started the handfeeding a long time ago when he wouldn't eat. He now expects it. Really won't eat from his dish, and yes I give in all the time..............


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## rcj1095

pam6400 said:


> OMG Tracy, this is Frankie! I started the handfeeding a long time ago when he wouldn't eat. He now expects it. Really won't eat from his dish, and yes I give in all the time..............


Hey Pam, any luck with sweet Ben? Any changes with the medallions?


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## Brodysmom

pam6400 said:


> OMG Tracy, this is Frankie! I started the handfeeding a long time ago when he wouldn't eat. He now expects it. Really won't eat from his dish, and yes I give in all the time..............


Pam, I guess we can just be crazy together. LOL. Dont' they just drive you bonkers? Gotta love 'em. ha ha.

Brodysmom


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## Zethsmommy

Well we've been on the medallions for two weeks now. All I can say is WOW!!! What a change. I've been away for the past week camping with the scouts so my daughter was instructed on how to feed Zeth. After being away for the week and Zeth not getting spoiled by me hand feeding him, he now begs at the refrigerator waiting for his food and the minute it goes in his bowl he gobbles it all up. His hair feels like silk and the coloring has actually darkened up a bit and is much more lustrious than before. His eyes are bright and he seems to have slimmed down a bit as well. This is the first time in the year and a half we've had him that he actually enjoys his food and looks forward to it.

Can't wait to try the other flavors of medallions and do a rotating schedule with him. He also likes the NV rabbit kibble more than his wellness kibble. He steals the rabbit kibble from his sisters bowl.


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## rcj1095

Okay guys, I've made the switch to all medallions. What are your thoughts on this? My worry is they eat it so fast. I give them twice a day the appropriate amount for their sizes. They just gobble it up so fast that I worry. Is this a good thing? The kibble is like my security blanket for the little ones but I think it's time to stop the free feeding. 

The good news is we have an awesome rep at our Pet Supplies Plus. He's in there once a month and can't give enough stuff away. I talked with the manager again today and he gave me the dates he'll be there. I'm gonna stop in while he's there cuz I love the coupons. Mine love the kibble too and I still picked up my free bag (they gave me the chicken cuz they didn't have the rabbit). 

The rep says especially with the smaller dogs, the bone and everything is in there and they are getting all they need. Agh, I'm a little nervous. He also said throwing the kibble in there if we are on vacation (yea, right, like that's happening soon, LOL) won't hurt them a bit. 

Any thoughts???


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## Muzby

Congrats on the switch! 

Eating fast is okay, maybe leave them whole, or half frozen to slow them down if it really bothers you, but it isn't bad for them (although sometimes eating too fast, they may puke it up [and re-eat it again]).

Watch their poops. Often premade can have too much bone, and cause constipation. If you notice this, you will have to add meat of your own instead of a medallion for one meal. Example: piece of chicken breast, chunk of beef, chunk of beef heart, chicken giblets, etc.

Doing so will also cut your food bills in half yet again, and they still get the bone/organ from the medallions.


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## rcj1095

Muzby said:


> Congrats on the switch!
> 
> Eating fast is okay, maybe leave them whole, or half frozen to slow them down if it really bothers you, but it isn't bad for them (although sometimes eating too fast, they may puke it up [and re-eat it again]).
> 
> Watch their poops. Often premade can have too much bone, and cause constipation. If you notice this, you will have to add meat of your own instead of a medallion for one meal. Example: piece of chicken breast, chunk of beef, chunk of beef heart, chicken giblets, etc.
> 
> Doing so will also cut your food bills in half yet again, and they still get the bone/organ from the medallions.


Oh, I was so hoping you'd jump in here and advise me. Okay, I have no problem with adding my own. I'm all about being cost effective. Stupid question but I would just cut chicken breast up raw and give it to them? Same with the beef? Ground beef or does that have too much fat?


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## Brodysmom

I haven't noticed any constipation issues at all with the NV. I hope it is the same for the Archetype which has the bone in it too. 

Robin, I think it's OK if they snarf their medallions! I would give anything if Brody would eat his like that. I am back to hand feeding the medallion to him at dinnertime. He won't eat it if I put it on a plate. Bad boy that he is. So I stand there and tear off little bitty bites and he eats it that way if I talk to him and tell him that if he doesn't HURRY UP I'm giving it to the cat. Sheesh.

Zethsmommy - I am so glad to hear your success story!! Hurray!!

Muzby - thanks again for all your help. As you know, I was not a raw proponenet at ALL, but I have come around, thanks to you. 

Brodysmom


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## Muzby

You can continue with the NV until you notice a problem, if you'd like. If you -do- want to do NV and some of your own for a few months just cut up some meat. It's really that simple. Raw chicken breast, raw beef, ground is okay but tends to be not as good for teeth. They need to WORK at it! That's how teeth get clean.  Have you tried any boney parts yet? Those are always fun.  Also, don't be afraid to leave skin on, don't cut fatty parts off, etc. They need ALL of that stuff, unlike us. Dogs/cats are made to process large amounts of protein and fat, people are not. LOL

Brodysmom, I am just glad I could help people out.


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## rcj1095

Okay, just wondering about all of this. I still have the kibble here but I'm holding off right now with it. The medallions are so easy and I'm not opposed to adding raw, I just want to do it right!!!

Thanks girls!!!


----------



## Muzby

You can PM me with any specific questions if you want, or email as well.


----------



## barefoot

With puppies my raw lady friend always advised me to make sure they had enough bone. The bone has the vitamins important for growing. So maybe a little more bonevs. meat ratio for pups. I raised my border collie through puppyhood purely on raw. He is a little crazy, but don't think it is from the raw. LOL


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## rcj1095

barefoot said:


> With puppies my raw lady friend always advised me to make sure they had enough bone. The bone has the vitamins important for growing. So maybe a little more bonevs. meat ratio for pups. I raised my border collie through puppyhood purely on raw. He is a little crazy, but don't think it is from the raw. LOL


Ha. That's funny. Yea, a couple of mine are crazy and they just started raw. The medallions are great cuz they have the bone in them. We'll see how it goes!!!


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## carrera

So its been a few weeks now since we started the medallions and we are doing great! Carrera and Chicco each get one medallion in the morning, Carrera could probably get a bigger portion but she always eats so slow and if i give her more chicco will end up eating it instead. I leave kibble down during the day but they don't touch it till late at night. I would like to try to give them a piece of raw chicken with bone, muzby what do you recommend starting with, a chicken wing? I know you mentioned giblets, but I think they would love the bone, they are both big chewers. 
i'm sure this was already mentioned but can someone give a week's list of what you would feed when doing all raw, no kibble? 

RCJ-what pet supplies plus do you go to, is it a NV rep? Please let me know, i would like to go in one time


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## Muzby

carrera said:


> So its been a few weeks now since we started the medallions and we are doing great! Carrera and Chicco each get one medallion in the morning, Carrera could probably get a bigger portion but she always eats so slow and if i give her more chicco will end up eating it instead. I leave kibble down during the day but they don't touch it till late at night. I would like to try to give them a piece of raw chicken with bone, muzby what do you recommend starting with, a chicken wing? I know you mentioned giblets, but I think they would love the bone, they are both big chewers.
> i'm sure this was already mentioned but can someone give a week's list of what you would feed when doing all raw, no kibble?
> 
> RCJ-what pet supplies plus do you go to, is it a NV rep? Please let me know, i would like to go in one time


Wings are a good start, but pricey. Backs and necks are much cheaper and just as good (some pet stores even carry necks now).

Just remember too much bone causes constipation, with the bone in the medallion if all you offer for "other" meat meals is boney, they will get constipated. Bone should be given twice or three times a week usually (some dogs can handle more, some dogs can't handle that much). This is the wonderful thing about raw, is has the loose guideline of 80.10.10 but every dog is different and you can tweak it as you please. 

You'd be surprised how they have to chew the giblets! Meat is also a good chew for them because they aren't used to it. So bigger pieces are good for those big chewers (ex: you can start with dice sized chunks of beef, and move up to golf ball sized pieces). 

Here's a rough week for us (I will put everything in terms of chicken incase anyone wants to copy for their kids):

Monday - chicken breast for breakfast & dinner
Tuesday - chicken breast for breakfast, chicken neck for dinner
Wednesday - chicken breast for breakfast & dinner
Thursday - chicken wing for breakfast, breast for dinner
Friday - chicken breast for breakfast & dinner
Saturday - chicken breast for breakfast & chicken liver for dinner 
Sunday - chicken back for breakfast & breast for dinner

Now, a couple things: 

1. The breast can also be thigh/leg/etc meat, just NO BONE. Make sure you do add some skin! Skin is important fat. 

2. If all you have is neck, feed only neck for bone. Same with the other types.. the TYPE of bone doesn't matter, as long as it's there.

3. Organ content needs to be changed weekly: next week, Saturday instead of liver they get kidney - this comprises your 10% organ; 5% liver 5% other (other = kidney, spleen, pancreas, etc).

There are those raw feeders who try and get all meat/organ/bone in one meal every meal, but I am a fan of the looser feeding methods. As long as the dog/cat gets all forms they will do fine. They don't get deficient in anything over months, so waiting a week for the kidney won't kill them. 

You can also give more bone when you're just starting out to keep things "solid". I don't think anyone here has to worry about that because you've all done some raw now for a while. 

This diet is so easy and cheap. We get most of our meat off Kijiji (Craigslist) for free, just put up an add for WANTED: freezer burnt/old meat and get TONS of replies. I might spend $5-$10/mth, but I don't HAVE to, I just like to buy fresh hearts (high in taurine for the cats).


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## carrera

If I were to feed all organic, cage free, veg fed meats would it still be cost effective? I know for two organic chicken breasts it is atleast $6, and if thats the cost of food per day it would get pricey. raw is supposivly the best way to go but if i am feeding them meat from who knows where other people bought it, how is that the healthy route to go? and then say i don't get it from other people and spend high dollar on the good stuff, would it be cheaper just go get the medallions or another organic/natural type of raw food?


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## Muzby

If you're sure you want to go orgainic/free range, you may have to do a little more work to get the good stuff cheap. Calling around to local butchers, local co-ops, local farmers. Making friends and making deals.

I actually made friends with a local butcher at an organic meat shop and get lamb scrap, organ, etc for free once a week. I have to cut the "good meat" off the fatty scrap, but I get a ton of stuff. 

Raw is easy, and can be VERY cheap.. but it does take a little work at first to make those contacts.

On the whole "what is better".. you would rather feed an organic premade, which has very few standards in the way of health codes... than pick up non-organic chicken from a local butcher? I feel safer knowing my meat comes from someone I know, I know they handled it well and safely... than trusting some large corporation who has way less restrictions and well paid lawyers on stand by. Little guys have to do it right the first time, they can't afford a few people/'pets dying from bad meat... corporations CAN. Even the most "well respected" companies still just think of you and your pets as dollar signs.

Also, you don't HAVE to use breasts.. those are pricey. Get thighs and legs. Cut the meat off the bones. Offer to take old meat from your butcher who sells organic, all freezer burnt and "too old for people" meats. This is still ALL good for pets, people meat is tossed way too soon for saftey reasons. 

Contact menenite farmers, hobby breeders, use Craigslist to make contacts for free meat.

I would still, 100%, rather feed non-organic [as an aside, we try and do freerange/organic as much as possible - rabbits are hobby farm raised, lamb is organic, we get squirrels/bunnies from the wild, deer and moose, duck and goose meat from the wild] meat than support ANY company when I can't see how they handle their meat/product FIRST HAND.


----------



## Razzlette

I have 2 ferrets that are on a raw diet and they love it. I thought about starting Tilly on raw. I have two question: the ferrets get a balance of beef, pork, chicken, organs and some dear meat. Would it be the same for her? I know they ferrets digest things quickly (about 2-3 hours). They get about 6-8 oz of raw a day. How much would she need at 1lb 4oz? 

Thank you 
Stacy & Tilly


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## carrera

I will probably end up making a post of craigslist and see what type of responses I get. I was thinking, if I weren't able to get scraps from farmers/butchers, another somewhat cheaper option would be to buy a whole chicken and just cut from it instead of buying the pieces seperate-this is kind of a "duh" comment but for some reason I have been thinking of buying in pieces this whole time instead of the whole thing. I know my sister bought a quarter of a cow, where you get all types of meats and its already cut and packaged, but because your buying in bulk it always comes out cheaper then it is in the stores. 
i'll let you know what i end up doing, i'm sure i'll hve more questions. I am going to wait till after our vacation in a couple weeks before i do anything major. 
thanks for the quick reply


----------



## Muzby

Razzlette said:


> I have 2 ferrets that are on a raw diet and they love it. I thought about starting Tilly on raw. I have two question: the ferrets get a balance of beef, pork, chicken, organs and some dear meat. Would it be the same for her? I know they ferrets digest things quickly (about 2-3 hours). They get about 6-8 oz of raw a day. How much would she need at 1lb 4oz?
> 
> Thank you
> Stacy & Tilly


Do the ferrets get bone too? What -exactly- is their diet? Do you follow the 80.10.10? I assume your dog is a pup? As puppies, they can eat pretty much as much as they want.. I guess the idea is whatever they'd need per day as an adult (how big were the parents? how big you do guess she'll get?). 4-5oz a day isn't too much if she's still real young, and you can just keep an eye on her to see if she's getting too chunky by feeling her spine daily.


----------



## Muzby

carrera said:


> I will probably end up making a post of craigslist and see what type of responses I get. I was thinking, if I weren't able to get scraps from farmers/butchers, another somewhat cheaper option would be to buy a whole chicken and just cut from it instead of buying the pieces seperate-this is kind of a "duh" comment but for some reason I have been thinking of buying in pieces this whole time instead of the whole thing. I know my sister bought a quarter of a cow, where you get all types of meats and its already cut and packaged, but because your buying in bulk it always comes out cheaper then it is in the stores.
> i'll let you know what i end up doing, i'm sure i'll hve more questions. I am going to wait till after our vacation in a couple weeks before i do anything major.
> thanks for the quick reply


Yes! Craigslist can be wonderful. Don't forget to post in different sections (Pets, obviously but also home/garden and moving (empty freezers for move), stuff where you are likely to get the wild meats from hunters) and as well as different sections, post atleast ONCE A WEEK! Some people don't see the add before, if this is too often, once a month would do. Here's and idea for you:

Title: WANTED: freezer burned/old/unwanted meat

"I home cook for my (dog/cat) with severe allergies to kibble canned food and am looking for any freezer burned, old or unwanted meat. Must be uncooked and unseasoned. I will pick up in the (list where you are willing to drive to) areas but will drive further for amounts over 50 lbs. Email me with what you have and an estimate of pounds."

(I will also include an insanely cute picture of Carerra) 
"Carerra thanks you for your contributions!"

Most raw feeders have the best luck with that one. Made up by the same person who does a rawblog and is a member of my rawforum (rawblog: http://rawdiettruth.blogspot.com/ **warning*** graphic material on blog)


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## Razzlette

Muzby said:


> Do the ferrets get bone too? What -exactly- is their diet? Do you follow the 80.10.10? I assume your dog is a pup? As puppies, they can eat pretty much as much as they want.. I guess the idea is whatever they'd need per day as an adult (how big were the parents? how big you do guess she'll get?). 4-5oz a day isn't too much if she's still real young, and you can just keep an eye on her to see if she's getting too chunky by feeling her spine daily.


The ferrets do get bone. The ferrets just turned 1 and Katara is about 2lb and Zuko is almost 3lb. They eat once a day. 

MONDAY: 2 raw chicken wings (one each) 
TUESDAY: 1/2 cornish game hen (to share) 
WEDNESDAY: 1 cup boneless beef chunks or ground beef
THURSDAY: Other half of cornish game hen 
FRIDAY: 1 cup boneless pork chunks or bone in pork chop
SATURDAY: 4 natures variety medallions
SUNDAY: 2 chicken livers, 6 chicken gizzards, 1/2 beef liver and 1 raw egg

Tilly is 9 weeks old today and weighs 1lb 7oz. Her mom is very small and dad is medium. She was the runt of the bunch and I don't think she will be much bigger than her mom.


----------



## Muzby

Razzlette said:


> The ferrets do get bone. The ferrets just turned 1 and Katara is about 2lb and Zuko is almost 3lb. They eat once a day.
> 
> MONDAY: 2 raw chicken wings (one each)
> TUESDAY: 1/2 cornish game hen (to share)
> WEDNESDAY: 1 cup boneless beef chunks or ground beef
> THURSDAY: Other half of cornish game hen
> FRIDAY: 1 cup boneless pork chunks or bone in pork chop
> SATURDAY: 4 natures variety medallions
> SUNDAY: 2 chicken livers, 6 chicken gizzards, 1/2 beef liver and 1 raw egg
> 
> Tilly is 9 weeks old today and weighs 1lb 7oz. Her mom is very small and dad is medium. She was the runt of the bunch and I don't think she will be much bigger than her mom.


I don't see any "other" organ? Kidney? Spleen? Pancreas? Chicken gizzards count as MUSCLE MEAT not organ. 

The only other thing I would recomend is to space out the boney meals, on Sundays I would feed 1/2 hen & liver/kidney so they're not getting only organ/meat. That's also just a personal preference.. feed bone w/organ so we don't have any splodey bum! 

For Tilly, I'd go ahead and start her on a raw diet that allows 4-7oz per day, depending on activity level and what she wants. You can follow roughly the same schedule as your ferrets, but I would warn against that at first and just say to offer her only meat/bone meals until she gets used to it all.. then intro organ a few weeks later.


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## Razzlette

Thanks for the info!

I plan on starting her slow. It took the ferrets a bit to get use to the change but they have been doing great for almost a year.

~Stacy & Tilly


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## rcj1095

Okay girls, I made ribs tonight and cut off raw bone for all four of them before I cooked them. It was their first experience with raw meat on a bone. It was too funny. Coco had little to no interest. She's 2-1/2 and doesn't chew as much as the others but she picked at it for a bit. Chloe and Coop loved it, chewed their little butts off and Lily actually did pretty well also. I figure maybe it will help her start liking her medallions. I felt pretty spunky doing it!!! LOL. Going to try a few other things this weekend with them.

Carrera, I go to the Pet Supplies Plus on Manchester Rd. I will find out when the NV rep is going to be there and pm you. Go to the closest one to your house and ask when the rep is there. The one at our store, I guess, loves giving stuff away and is quite generous. Gives lots of coupons too. Mine love this food so much. The kibble and the medallions. I am sold on it. Their stools have never been better and I like that I don't have to order it.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

rcj1095 said:


> Okay girls, I made ribs tonight and cut off raw bone for all four of them before I cooked them. It was their first experience with raw meat on a bone. It was too funny. Coco had little to no interest. She's 2-1/2 and doesn't chew as much as the others but she picked at it for a bit. Chloe and Coop loved it, chewed their little butts off and Lily actually did pretty well also. I figure maybe it will help her start liking her medallions. I felt pretty spunky doing it!!! LOL. Going to try a few other things this weekend with them.
> 
> Carrera, I go to the Pet Supplies Plus on Manchester Rd. I will find out when the NV rep is going to be there and pm you. Go to the closest one to your house and ask when the rep is there. The one at our store, I guess, loves giving stuff away and is quite generous. Gives lots of coupons too. Mine love this food so much. The kibble and the medallions. I am sold on it. Their stools have never been better and I like that I don't have to order it.


Good for you Robin! That's wonderful. I haven't been brave enough to give the raw meat a try yet, only the NV raw. I'm so glad you did it, and they liked it! Coco will come around too. 
Keep me posted!


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## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Good for you Robin! That's wonderful. I haven't been brave enough to give the raw meat a try yet, only the NV raw. I'm so glad you did it, and they liked it! Coco will come around too.
> Keep me posted!


We are like our own little cheerleading squad, aren't we??? LOL. I didn't give it a lot of thought and it didn't have a ton of meat on it, just wanted to try it. Coop's stool was definitely a different color this morning though. Who knows? Just trying to be brave!!!:coolwink:


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## carrera

Thanks for letting me know, the one on 18 doesnt sell NV last time I checked (about a month ago) but I think Manchester is like 20 minutes from me so please do let me know, i love coupons!


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## rcj1095

carrera said:


> Thanks for letting me know, the one on 18 doesnt sell NV last time I checked (about a month ago) but I think Manchester is like 20 minutes from me so please do let me know, i love coupons!


No problem. It's on my way home. I live about 8 minutes south of there. The store is only a couple minutes off the Manchester Rd./Waterloo exit. I'll be popping in within a week or so and I'll keep ya posted. I'll be happy to grab ya some coupons when I'm there also, it's very convenient for me!!! I'll pm you when I know something.


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## Brodysmom

Did you guys get the email coupon from k9cuisine.com for the NV Instinct? Where you can put in the code and get the free bag of food through them? I went ahead and made another order, but you could just put in the coupon and pay shipping and you'd get the bag for about half price by just paying for shipping. I ordered the NV rabbit one. I'm still doing one meal of kibble along with one meal of raw. 

Who knows?? Maybe Brody will actually LIKE the NV Instinct???

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Did you guys get the email coupon from k9cuisine.com for the NV Instinct? Where you can put in the code and get the free bag of food through them? I went ahead and made another order, but you could just put in the coupon and pay shipping and you'd get the bag for about half price by just paying for shipping. I ordered the NV rabbit one. I'm still doing one meal of kibble along with one meal of raw.
> 
> Who knows?? Maybe Brody will actually LIKE the NV Instinct???
> 
> Brodysmom


No, wonder why I don't get those? I'll have to get back on the website and double check. I will still totally keep and use the kibble. Lily is being my stubborn one. I'd better check it out. Thanks girl!!!


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## carrera

Ya I recieved that coupon, I havn't had a chance to stop in and pick it up 
yet though. I'll probably wait to try it after we get back from Florida, it wouldn't be a good idea to go down there on new food. 

We just started on our 2nd bag of medallions, its lamb this time, I cant stand the smell of it though, does lamb always smell like that? Carrera and Chicco seem to like it though...


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## Brodysmom

Ok, here's the info from the email....

Free Bag of Nature's Variety Instinct 
Who says there is no such thing as a FREE lunch???
K9Cuisine.com and Natures Variety want to give you a FREE 4.4 lb bag of Instinct Duck Dog Food, Instinct Rabbit Dog Food, or Instinct Rabbit Cat Food. Take advantage of this perfect opportunity to sample such a super premium high quality grain-free food - for FREE!

As always, at K9Cuisine, any order over $50 ships FREE!
With such a great deal - we must limit this offer to one FREE bag per customer.
So shop now through August 31st and let your four-legged pal have lunch on us!
For your FREE Bag, use coupon code Instinct-e-0709


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Hmmm. I must not be on their mailing list. I will check it out. I LOVE FREE STUFF!!!


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## Brodysmom

I bet you can just print off that coupon from my other post and take it in. Cut it out first. ha ha. Or else just order from k9cuisine.com and use the code and get the free bag. Even if you do have to pay shipping, you still get the bag for half price or less! A good savings, although FREE is always better. 

Brodysmom


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Ok everyone... I've been reading these things and have been wanting to get Bailey on the healthiest of foods that I can.... I printed coupons for free medallions (expired now) and I will print the free one just posted by Brody's mom.... but I must admit, I am scared to give him raw food. Please ease my mind? Also... if we get to adopt "Baby" what age can she start?

I worry about worms, parasites and illness.... I want the BEST of the BEST for my baby/babies .... PERIOD!


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## Brodysmom

Start here.... this site gives all the worries a rest. 

http://rawfed.com/myths/intro.html

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/

Good links to other sites on that page too.

If you get to keep the puppy (I hope you do!) you can start her right away. Actually, if you do the research, raw fed dogs can be fed a LOT healthier and a LOT cheaper than using kibble! And you will save on vet bills with a healthier immune system, more resistance to disease, no need for dentals, etc. 

I do have to say that I haven't completely given up kibble.... there's that part of me that is scared too Kim! So I do kibble in the morning with the Nupro supplement (it eases my mind that he's getting all the vitamins he needs) and then I do the raw for the evening meal. I alternate between giving him my homemade raw meatballs or the NV medallions. So far so good!!! And I have to say that even though Brody is the world's pickiest eater and he drives me crazy sometimes... he looks amazing and he has so much energy! 

But don't take anyone's word for it. Start doing some research and decide for yourself how you want to feed your babies. It is up to you and you have to be comfortable with it. 

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Kim, when you have some time, read through this whole thread. I would have never even considered this without the coaching and help from Kelly and Tracy and Lisa, etc. etc. Carrera is doing it, Kay even started Zoey on it. You'll be shocked at how easy and the difference in them. You can start Baby on it right with Bailey and the price is so good. This thread is awesome for support and NV pretty much honors all coupons!!! You will not be sorry. I'm not!!!


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Thanks ladies, I'll give this a real thought and read over!


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## huskyluv

Hi everyone! Just thought I'd say that I've been following this thread all along but haven't posted, just reading so far. For some reason now seemed like a good time to cheer you guys on. lol I love what I've read so far and I've always wanted to switch my dogs to raw. However hubby is against it for now and we tried the raw medallions on our two (Dakota and Faith) a few months ago and Dakota ate them just fine but Faith refused. I only gave it a try for about a week and switched back to kibble/wet. But just wanted you all to know I love this thread and enjoy following all your experiences even if I don't post. One day I will try my dogs on raw again.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Robin, how's you crew doing on the NV kibble? 
I'm thinking of changing to NV or Orijen, but still not sure. I love the kibble they are on now (Karma by Natura) because it organic, and it was the best I could find when the pet food recall was going on, but I don't like all the grains they use.
They like the (free) bag of NV rabbit kibble I have. I use it for treats and training. I just wish it was organic. I'd feel so much better about switching them to NV kibble.
Do your chi's gobble down their NV kibble? It's so small that mine inhale it.Lol. I never hear a crunch!


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## rcj1095

Okay Lisa, mine have not liked a kibble better than this. It's not organic though honey but it's got great ingredients and it's a 6 star. Mine really like Orijen also but they like this better. I still do kibble with nupro, especially with Lily. I've done the lamb, chicken and beef medallions and the three of them love them but Lily is a hard sell!!! She'll adjust eventually and I won't give up!!! This is one of the best decisions I've ever made. Their stools are amazing and they seem so "healthy", like Tracy said. It's just one big experiment and we're all in it together!!!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

huskyluv said:


> Hi everyone! Just thought I'd say that I've been following this thread all along but haven't posted, just reading so far. For some reason now seemed like a good time to cheer you guys on. lol I love what I've read so far and I've always wanted to switch my dogs to raw. However hubby is against it for now and we tried the raw medallions on our two (Dakota and Faith) a few months ago and Dakota ate them just fine but Faith refused. I only gave it a try for about a week and switched back to kibble/wet. But just wanted you all to know I love this thread and enjoy following all your experiences even if I don't post. One day I will try my dogs on raw again.


Hey Valerie! Thanks for popping in! We all can use another cheerleader. 
That's to bad Faith didn't like it, but maybe when you try it again she will come around. Lila was my stubborn one, but she came around in a couple days.
I think it's time for some Dakota and Faith pic!!



rcj1095 said:


> Okay Lisa, mine have not liked a kibble better than this. It's not organic though honey but it's got great ingredients and it's a 6 star. Mine really like Orijen also but they like this better. I still do kibble with nupro, especially with Lily. I've done the lamb, chicken and beef medallions and the three of them love them but Lily is a hard sell!!! She'll adjust eventually and I won't give up!!! This is one of the best decisions I've ever made. Their stools are amazing and they seem so "healthy", like Tracy said. It's just one big experiment and we're all in it together!!!


Thanks Robin. Every little bit of info helps me a lot. I am going to make the switch, but still not sure which one yet. I think Orijen's kibble is bigger and I like that because the Karma has big kibble too. Hmmm...Decisions! 
Yeah, Lily will come around. Just give her time .
Have you thought about just doing the raw medallions and no kibble?


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## huskyluv

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Hey Valerie! Thanks for popping in! We all can use another cheerleader.
> That's to bad Faith didn't like it, but maybe when you try it again she will come around. Lila was my stubborn one, but she came around in a couple days.
> I think it's time for some Dakota and Faith pic!!


Yeah I was really just doing a week trial with them and was a little disappointed with Faith's reaction repeatedly. However I do intend to eventually switch her over to raw, it's just a question of when. lol I do have Nature's Variety kibble, I have 3 free bags of the NV Instinct duck that I started mixing in both of their diets. Faith loves it, Dakota not so much. lol

And we just got back from vacation and I have lots of pics to share. Keep an eye out early next week!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

huskyluv said:


> Yeah I was really just doing a week trial with them and was a little disappointed with Faith's reaction repeatedly. However I do intend to eventually switch her over to raw, it's just a question of when. lol I do have Nature's Variety kibble, I have 3 free bags of the NV Instinct duck that I started mixing in both of their diets. Faith loves it, Dakota not so much. lol
> 
> And we just got back from vacation and I have lots of pics to share. Keep an eye out early next week!


Yea!! I will keep an eye out for your pics. I can't wait to see them!


----------



## huskyluv

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Yea!! I will keep an eye out for your pics. I can't wait to see them!


Just asked hubby when I'll have pics to post and he says he'll try to have them to me by the weekend so maybe sooner! (He has to do his photographer touch ups to make them post worthy lol ) Believe me, they're worth waiting for!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

huskyluv said:


> Just asked hubby when I'll have pics to post and he says he'll try to have them to me by the weekend so maybe sooner! (He has to do his photographer touch ups to make them post worthy lol ) Believe me, they're worth waiting for!


Lol! Husbands! 
I know the pics will be great! I will check back.


----------



## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Thanks Robin. Every little bit of info helps me a lot. I am going to make the switch, but still not sure which one yet. I think Orijen's kibble is bigger and I like that because the Karma has big kibble too. Hmmm...Decisions!
> Yeah, Lily will come around. Just give her time .
> Have you thought about just doing the raw medallions and no kibble?


Yes, I did just the medallions for two days and she didn't eat a bite. She's so little still and she wouldn't budge. I gave in. I am doing mostly medallions and the other three prefer them but she still gets the kibble with the nupro gravy!!! I am sold on these medallions and they love them. I'll keep working on her though. I know she'll give in eventually!!!


huskyluv said:


> Yeah I was really just doing a week trial with them and was a little disappointed with Faith's reaction repeatedly. However I do intend to eventually switch her over to raw, it's just a question of when. lol I do have Nature's Variety kibble, I have 3 free bags of the NV Instinct duck that I started mixing in both of their diets. Faith loves it, Dakota not so much. lol
> 
> And we just got back from vacation and I have lots of pics to share. Keep an eye out early next week!


I want to see those pictures!!! It's time for a Faith/Dakota fix. I knew it was pretty quiet on your end. I'll check our "diet" thread to see how you've been doing. I'm still down for now!!! Yeah!!! Mine adore the NV medallions and kibble. I'm trying to do all raw but Lily is making it very hard on me. I won't give up though. My will is stronger than hers!!! Please hurry on the pics, I'll bet they are amazing!!! Glad you are back safe and sound!!!


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Alright, I've read a ton.. and I feel more comfortable about giving Bailey some raw chicken medallions, now I need to find a coupon. LOL 

I plan to use up the quarter of Wellness I have left and returning the unopened bag of Wellness, I will then use the money for that to buy the medallions. My question is, Bailey is 5 pounds and can eat like a horse, how much do I give him? I plan to, after the Wellness is gone, having him/them eating 2 medallions a day before too long. Is that ok?

If we get to adopt "Baby", I don't know her age/weight right now, but she eats like she will never see food again.  How much should she get of a medallion, about a half? She is half the size of Bailey and by guessing, I think she weighs about 3 pounds.. if that. I won't start them on the raw until I can make her mine, I don't want to tease Socks with yummy raw food, when her new home will probably feed her something cheap and crappy. (sigh)

As for non-medallion raw food, what do you all give your babies? I might give Bailey something for lunch tomorrow and see how he likes it... was thinking a little bit of raw chicken?

I also plan to start using the NUPRO I got, how do I use it and when? Any allergy risks? 

I am thinking about starting the cats on raw.... any advice on what to feed them? My 13 year old needs some pep! lol


----------



## rcj1095

Okay, you will love the nupro. Sprinkle it on, it's awesome. Chloe and Lily each get a medallion a day and they are less than 3 lbs. I give Coco 1-1/2 or 2 a day and she's four pounds and Cooper gets three at 8 pounds. That's according to NV advice. They get about 1/2 tsp. of nupro a day and you will be shocked at how good it is for them. Bailey is already perfect but his coat will shine even more. Kelly (muzby) gives amazing advice. I'm not anywhere near her level but I've learned a lot from this thread. I've given raw rib bones (which they loved) and the medallions and that's all I've done raw so far. I am going to forward you the link in your pm right now to get the free coupon. It's buy one, get one free. For $15 you get two bags with 48 medallions per bag. You won't be sorry. It's so easy and most dogs go crazy for them!!!


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Thanks hun, I am looking forward to the link!


----------



## Brodysmom

Here's the link for the buy one, get one free bag of NV frozen raw medallions. Like Robin said, you pay about $15 and you get 2 bags of 48 medallions each. It lasts a long time with our little Chi's! (Glad we don't have dobermans or some other large breed! ha!)

http://www.naturesvariety.com/tryit/register/form

Just fill out the form and they will send the coupon to your email. They put the store on it that is closest to you, so be sure that the store carries the NV! (Maybe call first.) The first coupon I did was for a store that no longer carried the NV and the other store that did wouldn't honor the coupon with the other store's name on it! So get your ducks in a row and all will be well. 

Kim, I can't wait for Bailey to try the NV and see what he thinks! I'd start with just one a day and see how he does. Brody didn't have any adverse effects. He had small, firm stool, etc. right from the beginning. But just like any new food, there may be some loose stools until they adjust. I'm so excited for you!

Brodysmom


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Here's the link for the buy one, get one free bag of NV frozen raw medallions. Like Robin said, you pay about $15 and you get 2 bags of 48 medallions each. It lasts a long time with our little Chi's! (Glad we don't have dobermans or some other large breed! ha!)
> 
> http://www.naturesvariety.com/tryit/register/form
> 
> Just fill out the form and they will send the coupon to your email. They put the store on it that is closest to you, so be sure that the store carries the NV! (Maybe call first.) The first coupon I did was for a store that no longer carried the NV and the other store that did wouldn't honor the coupon with the other store's name on it! So get your ducks in a row and all will be well.
> 
> Kim, I can't wait for Bailey to try the NV and see what he thinks! I'd start with just one a day and see how he does. Brody didn't have any adverse effects. He had small, firm stool, etc. right from the beginning. But just like any new food, there may be some loose stools until they adjust. I'm so excited for you!
> 
> Brodysmom


Tracy, this is horrible to admit, but I gave my email and Andrew's email at work so I could use two coupons. It's all the same to them and it helped me so much. It's a great buy and sure helps on the pocketbook!!! Yea, best to find your store first. I got lucky. I entered the wrong store and mine honored it but not all places will. Thanks for reposting it. I am so bad at finding links to things. LOL.


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Thanks, I'll print it out! 

I am getting excited to give this a try... I hope he likes it!


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## Brodysmom

In this economy?! Of course we all have to save where we can!! I have several email addresses too. It's perfect for situations like these! The stores are still getting reimbursed for the NV, so it's a win-win situation.


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## Brodysmom

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> Thanks, I'll print it out!
> 
> I am getting excited to give this a try... I hope he likes it!


You an just fill it out online! Maybe that's what you meant?! LOL! It's getting late here. HA! Yeah, just fill it out on the computer and then they'll send the coupon right to your email and then you can print it out and take it to the store and get your buy one, get one free bags.  Can't wait for little Bailey to give it a go! 

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> You an just fill it out online! Maybe that's what you meant?! LOL! It's getting late here. HA! Yeah, just fill it out on the computer and then they'll send the coupon right to your email and then you can print it out and take it to the store and get your buy one, get one free bags.  Can't wait for little Bailey to give it a go!
> 
> Brodysmom


Me either. I have a suspicion he's going to love it. Lily and Brody seem to be the problem children. Maybe it's black/white and black/tan chi's??? LOL.


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Ok, so I have the coupons and will be headed to the store soon. Did someone say there was a buy one get one free coupon for something like 48 medallions per bag? I can't find that one... lol


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

One more thing, if I am feeding him raw... does this mean he can't have processed treats anymore? We have boxes and bags of treats... he loves his treats so much!


----------



## Razzlette

When you register as a new member on the NV web site you get a BOGO coupon for the medallions.


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Ok. thanks. Got it then!


----------



## huskyluv

rcj1095 said:


> Tracy, this is horrible to admit, but I gave my email and Andrew's email at work so I could use two coupons. It's all the same to them and it helped me so much. It's a great buy and sure helps on the pocketbook!!!


Oh sweetie, that's not horrrible! I've printed a bunch of the free NV 4.4 lb kibble coupons and bought a bag at the store myself. Gave a coupon to my mother in law for her to pick up a free bag for me, and when we drove out of town on our vacation I picked up another free bag at a store in another city. :blob5: I'm totally milking this for all it's worth. I'm already looking for another location to use my coupon at and possibly another store out of town for when we make a trip in August to visit my family a few hours away.  I'm shameless...but hey, these dogs cost a ton to feed!

Oh and I forgot to say, the main reason I'm not able to switch to raw yet is I'm waiting until we move so that I can buy a chest freezer to put all the raw meat in. :coolwink: There's just no room in the fridge freezer right now.


----------



## rcj1095

huskyluv said:


> Oh sweetie, that's not horrrible! I've printed a bunch of the free NV 4.4 lb kibble coupons and bought a bag at the store myself. Gave a coupon to my mother in law for her to pick up a free bag for me, and when we drove out of town on our vacation I picked up another free bag at a store in another city. :blob5: I'm totally milking this for all it's worth. I'm already looking for another location to use my coupon at and possibly another store out of town for when we make a trip in August to visit my family a few hours away.  I'm shameless...but hey, these dogs cost a ton to feed!
> 
> Oh and I forgot to say, the main reason I'm not able to switch to raw yet is I'm waiting until we move so that I can buy a chest freezer to put all the raw meat in. :coolwink: There's just no room in the fridge freezer right now.



Val, you make me feel so much better. I got good responses after my "confessions". The NV rep told me that they love giving out coupons and their food is becoming so popular that they want to make it affordable and the coupons help. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one taking advantage of this!!! 

Just getting ready to pm you, do I need a RX for advantix and Interceptor?

I do have a freezer downstairs so I'm really gonna start making the most of this. I'm still doing baby steps here.


----------



## huskyluv

rcj1095 said:


> Val, you make me feel so much better. I got good responses after my "confessions". The NV rep told me that they love giving out coupons and their food is becoming so popular that they want to make it affordable and the coupons help. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one taking advantage of this!!!
> 
> Just getting ready to pm you, do I need a RX for advantix and Interceptor?
> 
> I do have a freezer downstairs so I'm really gonna start making the most of this. I'm still doing baby steps here.


Man, I need to find out if there's a NV rep in my area! For more coupons. I have Dakota on Innova Evo and Faith on Wellness Core but if they like NV and do well on the free bags I have then I will definitely be switching them over to NV (or at least adding it to my rotation) until I can start feeding raw.

You do not need a prescription for Advantix but you do need a prescription for Interceptor. 

You all better still be around when I start switching mine over in the future! lol


----------



## rcj1095

huskyluv said:


> Man, I need to find out if there's a NV rep in my area! For more coupons. I have Dakota on Innova Evo and Faith on Wellness Core but if they like NV and do well on the free bags I have then I will definitely be switching them over to NV (or at least adding it to my rotation) until I can start feeding raw.
> 
> You do not need a prescription for Advantix but you do need a prescription for Interceptor.
> 
> You all better still be around when I start switching mine over in the future! lol


Oh, don't worry, I'm a lifer for this forum. Kelly (muzby) better not go anywhere either. Tracy started this whole mess so she better stick around also. I've barely touched the surface of this raw thing!!! LOL. Okay, I'm gonna see my rep next week, let me ask him. Do you have a Pet Supplies Plus by you? Go on their website and they'll match you up with a store. I love this stuff!!! Where do you get your Advantix?


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## huskyluv

rcj1095 said:


> Do you have a Pet Supplies Plus by you? Go on their website and they'll match you up with a store. I love this stuff!!! Where do you get your Advantix?


I'd never heard of Pet Supplies Plus before but I did the store locator and the closest one to me is 70 miles away. Darn!

I get my Advantix from Drs. Foster & Smith. I buy a year supply in the spring when they have their annual sales on flea/tick products, I think it's usually March or April that they have a big sale on that stuff which is when I stock up, plus their flea/tick products ship free. JeffersPet also carries it for cheaper but you have to pay shipping with them.


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Bailey gets the Interceptor, its so easy to give! 

Anyone know about the processed treats and feeding raw?


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## rcj1095

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> Bailey gets the Interceptor, its so easy to give!
> 
> Anyone know about the processed treats and feeding raw?


It's fine. I still give treats. I do try to give grain free treats with all natural ingredients but come on, think about us. It's not like we aren't ever going to not eat chips and dip again, right???


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

LMAO!!!!!!! I agree, ok thanks!!!


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

I've been lazing around with the puppies today, but I am getting off of my laptop and going to shower now! Bailey and I have a date with the NV store!


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## rcj1095

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> I've been lazing around with the puppies today, but I am getting off of my laptop and going to shower now! Bailey and I have a date with the NV store!


Please update when you get home. What store are you going to?  Ask if they have a rep and when they come in each month!!!


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

We are back, about to give Bailey a medallion... its HOT here today, so its almost thawed just from the trip home. Yikes! lol

Robin, I didn't see this before I left, but I'll ask when we go back. We got him Beef and Chicken, he is about to try the beef! I'll get a couple pics... stay tuned!


----------



## rcj1095

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> We are back, about to give Bailey a medallion... its HOT here today, so its almost thawed just from the trip home. Yikes! lol
> 
> Robin, I didn't see this before I left, but I'll ask when we go back. We got him Beef and Chicken, he is about to try the beef! I'll get a couple pics... stay tuned!


I'm tuned in!!! Hangin here with the babes and not motivated to do anything!!! Hope he loves it.


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

He HATED it.... wouldn't touch it! I forgot that he hates wet food, has never liked it even as a little puppy. Rob put some on his finger and Bailey acted like it was poison, he then smeared a little on Bailey's nose.. wasn't having it! He wiped it off and went to lay under the table. The girls however, they MOWED it and fought over it!

We will try again later tonight, in the mean time Bailey won't get any kibble. He had a treat while we were out and about, the cashiers love to feed him treats. lol We will try once more tonight and again in the morning... if he doesn't eat it, then I guess we will take back the unopened bag. Don't know what to do about the opened one, even the cats won't eat it. lol

I will post pics and the video after I upload them!


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

WOW, ok, I thought the puppies had energy enough to light a city for a year, but they have enough energy to light the country for 20 years... is this really from the food, already? They are REALLY playing hard! Its freakin ADORABLE!!!!!!


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## rcj1095

Oh, I'm so happy for the little girls. It gives mine energy for sure. Now, just to give you some hope. Lily has been a huge problem, won't touch the raw. Hates it no matter what we do. It's been a couple weeks easily and I've given in and given her kibble cuz she's too little not to eat. Today, for the first time, she ate her entire medallion and seemed to enjoy it. It was totally room temp. She liked it much better than chilled or cool. She has been my stubborn one but I actually have hope today. Keep trying. Anything new can be tough for them. I'll bet Baby and Socks think they've died and gone to heaven!!!


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Yay for your little one!  I hope Bailey comes around... did you see the videos yet? Baby really loves the stuff, Socks does too, they ended up fighting over the last bit and then bounded off to have a tug-a-war with one of Bailey's toys, he joined in too, I wish I got that on film, or well. I'll try later!


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## Brodysmom

Don't give up Kim! Brody didn't like them either at first. He's still not 100% thrilled, but they are so healthy for him that I keep feeding them. It's sort of like kibble is Mcdonalds and the raw is a steak with veggies. Of course they like the mcdonalds! They are used to it and it tastes good. They just have to learn to like the steak! 

Keep offering it and it helps if hes hungry. I felt bad that Brody didn't eat so I was giving him treats and then he REALLY wasn't hungry so that was a dumb thing to do! Live and learn!

I am alternating between chicken medallions, beef medallions, and the homemade raw meatballs. To keep it interesting. Tonight he had a beef medallion and he turned up his nose. He didn't eat much breakfast so I knew he had to be hungry! I dropped a little piece on the floor and he ate it. So I just pulled off tiny bits and dropped them on the floor and he licked them up. *sigh* I guess if that's what it takes, then I will do it!!! 

Boy, people whose dogs just sit down and eat out of a bowl and like it ARE SO LUCKY!!!! Seriously!!

Brodysmom


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Call me crazy... but there are a few things with the raw diet, that are on the "toxic" list.... ???


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## rcj1095

Come on girl, please share... I didn't notice.


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Raw eggs, animal bones, animal fats ... etc


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## Brodysmom

Nahhhh...... don't let that worry you. Dogs are carnivores and are meant and made to eat whole prey. That's a myth to think that RAW bones will harm them.... especially when eaten with the meat (raw meaty bones). I havent' done a raw egg yet but I'm pretty sure that MR. PICKY would have nothing to do with it. 

Here's a good list of raw info you can pick through when you want something to do. LOL!

This info is from the raw feeders yahoo group mailing list ...

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/184829

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.rawlearning.com/supplementmyths.html

http://www.rawfedcom/myths/index.html

http://rawdiettruth.blogspot.com/2008/09/welcome.html

http://rawfeddogs.net/FAQlist

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/184897

What is Prey Model Raw?

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/163985?o=1&d=-1 

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawChat/message/20692?unwrap=1&var=1&l=1

*Why we don’t feed veggies*

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/174712

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/190162

Some of the easier or more popular tips;

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/194260


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## rcj1095

Hmmm. From everything I've learned about raw, those are all good things. They need a certain amount of fat. The bones are raw, not cooked, and the raw egg is quite good for them, unless I'm mistaken. Kelly (muzby) has taught us a lot so she'll be able to answer this properly. I've spent so much time learning and reading and it seems so healthy and "natural" for them. I'm still just skimming the surface though. I got a long way to go!!!:coolwink:


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Thanks for the links, I'll give them a check through!


----------



## Zethsmommy

Thanks for all the links. I too have been reading tons on the subject of RAW.
I've taken the plunge of feeding raw to my two fur babies. I started with the NV medallions. Had to do a bit of coaxing with Zeth though. I tried it defrosted and hand fed him bits at a time. I tried it just slightly defrosted and hand fed as well. Zeth has decided he liked it best completely frozen. 
I got a huge package of organic chicken thighs the other day so I took the plunge and fed my two 1 thigh each. OMG they loved it. The first time I cut Zeth's into pieces to make it easier for him. After about 3 days of that I gave him the whole thing. They each methodically chewed and chewed and thoroughly loved the bone. Zeth gets 1 thigh a day and Sandy gets 2 a day. I also am feeding them raw chicken gizzards and hearts as well as veal kidney in small amounts as a treat. I still have two 1/2 bags of NV kibble Rabbit and Chicken which I only use for afternoon munchies if Zeth and Sandy are doing the begging thing for more food. Zeth prefers the raw chicken over the NV chicken and lamb medallions. 

Both dogs poop is great and only once a day. Haven't had any issues of too runny at all.
Energy levels are up in both as well. 
Now if I could just get my Cat (Frodo) to eat raw instead of the cheapo cat kibble I'd be happy. He is Mr. fuss pot to the max with the worst coat of fur a cat could have. I swear he's two cats in one shell with the amount of hair he sheds.

Today I'm picking up about 40lbs of raw frozen cut up Venison Roasts from my Dad. He got it from his neighbor hunter about 1 year ago and has decided he doesn't want it. Can't wait to try my two on it.

Bailey's mom don't give up...............I'm sure Bailey will come around soon to the raw food. By the way your two little fosters are absolutely adorable, glad they liked the medallions. 

Still have a ton to learn but it's getting easier and easier to feed them and it's fun to watch them. The worst part of raw feeding so far is making sure the floor is cleaned and disinfected thoroughly after each feeding. I'm afraid to feed Zeth outside as the hawks constantly fly over head.


----------



## Brodysmom

Zethsmommy said:


> Thanks for all the links. I too have been reading tons on the subject of RAW.
> I've taken the plunge of feeding raw to my two fur babies. I started with the NV medallions. Had to do a bit of coaxing with Zeth though. I tried it defrosted and hand fed him bits at a time. I tried it just slightly defrosted and hand fed as well. Zeth has decided he liked it best completely frozen.
> I got a huge package of organic chicken thighs the other day so I took the plunge and fed my two 1 thigh each. OMG they loved it. The first time I cut Zeth's into pieces to make it easier for him. After about 3 days of that I gave him the whole thing. They each methodically chewed and chewed and thoroughly loved the bone. Zeth gets 1 thigh a day and Sandy gets 2 a day. I also am feeding them raw chicken gizzards and hearts as well as veal kidney in small amounts as a treat. I still have two 1/2 bags of NV kibble Rabbit and Chicken which I only use for afternoon munchies if Zeth and Sandy are doing the begging thing for more food. Zeth prefers the raw chicken over the NV chicken and lamb medallions.
> 
> Both dogs poop is great and only once a day. Haven't had any issues of too runny at all.
> Energy levels are up in both as well.
> Now if I could just get my Cat (Frodo) to eat raw instead of the cheapo cat kibble I'd be happy. He is Mr. fuss pot to the max with the worst coat of fur a cat could have. I swear he's two cats in one shell with the amount of hair he sheds.
> 
> Today I'm picking up about 40lbs of raw frozen cut up Venison Roasts from my Dad. He got it from his neighbor hunter about 1 year ago and has decided he doesn't want it. Can't wait to try my two on it.
> 
> Bailey's mom don't give up...............I'm sure Bailey will come around soon to the raw food. By the way your two little fosters are absolutely adorable, glad they liked the medallions.
> 
> Still have a ton to learn but it's getting easier and easier to feed them and it's fun to watch them. The worst part of raw feeding so far is making sure the floor is cleaned and disinfected thoroughly after each feeding. I'm afraid to feed Zeth outside as the hawks constantly fly over head.


Wow, you are a true success story!! I am so glad to hear this. So both of yours can eat a chicken thigh? What do Zeth and Sandy weigh? That chicken thigh seems so BIG compared to Brody! I was offering him wings and they seemed HUGE! And he wouldn't eat them anyway. 

I'm sooooooo glad to hear that this prey model diet is working for you! Please keep us updated on everything.

Brodysmom


----------



## Zethsmommy

Zeth weighs 10.5 as of his Vets appointment July 14th. He's on the big side for a chi. He's very broad chested and has long legs. Sandy is a Shiba/Chow mix and weighs 65lbs. Zeth can eat a whole chicken thigh now in 15-20 minutes all by himself uncut. Sandy on the other hand takes all of 10 mins too chew up 2 thighs. I've been giving her the bigger ones.


----------



## N*T*M*4U

I'm feeding them the medellion semi cooked ....They won't eat the raw...


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

I might have to do the semi cooked,... he still refuses to touch them, even after not having anything to eat since about 9 last night. We gave him his medallion this morning, he sniffed it and then went under his blanket and gave us the most pathetic face ever! We left it in there for about 20 minutes and nothing... put it back in the fridge, let him out to play and then when he went to his empty bowl, we brought it back out again.... he went back to his blanket to pout. So, we let the girls have it, they mowed it, fought over it and then we gave him his kibble.

Will try cooking it a little I guess.... he is so picky!


----------



## Zethsmommy

Oh poor Bailey.....I can just picture the look of disappointment on his face when his bowl was empty. Have you tried Chicken gizzards or hearts. Our local grocery store's sell them and Zeth loves them. Maybe try a little bit of them chopped up with the medallion. 
Just another thought...........Will Bailey eat plain yogurt? I added a teaspoon full of yogurt to Zeth's NV medallion when I first introduced it to him and he wouldn't eat it until I added the yogurt and a few pieces of his kibble.


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

We are actually going to boil some chicken for the girls tonight, were planning to give Bailey some raw stuff... but also boil some stuff too, I don't think he is going to eat it, but we are going to try. lol We tried adding the kibble to it, he picked the kibbles out and then spit them on the ground. He is such a picky brat! lol 

I don't know if he likes plain yogurt, but he loves yogurt drops. I imagine he will, he loves ice cream! Hmm, we will have to tinker around and see what we can get him to eat. lol


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

He just isn't having it! He doesn't like _anything_ raw!  Baby and Socks will eat anything you give them though! lol I am going to return the unopened bag today. Bummer!


----------



## rcj1095

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> He just isn't having it! He doesn't like _anything_ raw!  Baby and Socks will eat anything you give them though! lol I am going to return the unopened bag today. Bummer!


Just remember, it took Lily two weeks and she'll only eat the chicken now room temp. Depends how patient you want to be. I keep trying cuz the other three love it so much!!! Just pm'd you!


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Ok, we will give it another week then. He is just so picky! lol


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Kim I would give it a little longer... if you can. The raw is something new and so differentt to them, but I think in time Bailey will come around. Good luck!


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## Brodysmom

Tips to get them to eat the raw that I have been told... 

Some dogs like the NV chilled from the fridge, some like it room temp, some like it warm. Try all 3. To warm, put in a ziplock baggy and set in a bowl of hot water until it is the right temp. (Don't microwave).

Sear the NV in a pan to release the odors. 

Smear a small amount of canned food onto the NV medallion.

Sprinkle the medallion with a small amount of parmesan cheese.

Buy a can of Merricks 100% canned tripe and smear a bit on the medallion.

Offer the medallion at mealtimes. Leave it down for 20 minutes then pick up. NOTHING in between meals during this time. NO treats. Just the medallion at mealtimes.

Make sure he's hungry when you offer it. Take him for a walk or some vigorous playtime first, then offer the NV.

Hopefully these tips will work!

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Okay, I am switching over to the Natures Variety Kibble. I love the Karma because it's organic, but don't like all the grains they use.
It was a hard choice between Orijen and NV, but after doing some searching on the computer I found that Orijen cat food had been recalled in Australia, and a lot of cats died. I didn't really like the way Champion Pet Foods handled the situation, so I went with the NV kibble instead. *This is just my thinking, please take no offense*
Anyways, since they have already been getting the NV kibble as a treat the transition has been easy, and they really do love the NV kibble! 
My only two complaints about the NV kibble is that it is so small, and they don't have an Organic brand of kibble, but other than that it seems to be working nicely. 
One thing I am happy about is their poops... So much smaller, and not as stinky. Even though their poops weren't all that stinky before, but the NV has decreased the smell even more. Yea!!


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## Brodysmom

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Okay, I am switching over to the Natures Variety Kibble. I love the Karma because it's organic, but don't like all the grains they use.
> It was a hard choice between Orijen and NV, but after doing some searching on the computer I found that Orijen cat food had been recalled in Australia, and a lot of cats died. I didn't really like the way Champion Pet Foods handled the situation, so I went with the NV kibble instead. *This is just my thinking, please take no offense*
> Anyways, since they have already been getting the NV kibble as a treat the transition has been easy, and they really do love the NV kibble!
> My only two complaints about the NV kibble is that it is so small, and they don't have an Organic brand of kibble, but other than that it seems to be working nicely.
> One thing I am happy about is their poops... So much smaller, and not as stinky. Even though their poops weren't all that stinky before, but the NV has decreased the smell even more. Yea!!


Thanks for the update. I had no idea about the Orijen cat food recall! That is scary!! That's the MAIN reason I want to get Brody transitioned over to raw/home made. I did order a bag of the NV kibble so I'm excited to try it for Brody. I also ordered a bag of Evo, which is supposed to be highly rated and also grain free (a 6 star food). These will still be his morning meals and the NV/meatballs for dinner until I decide to get him completely transitioned over to raw. 

The poop situation is GREAT! YAY!

Keep us posted!

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Yeah Tracy, I think raw is the way to go. Your doing good with Brody. Keep us updated on what your doing!
If you type in Orijen cat food recall you will find a lot of info. This only happened in Australia. Maybe because of the irradiated cat food that Australia required Orijen to do if they wanted to sell the food there, but Orijen handled it all wrong, and I guess Australia irradiates imports all the time. So I guess it's for the public to decide who's at fault?? 
There are you tube video's of these poor cats that have paralyzed back legs. It so sad!
I need to go ALL raw!


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## Brodysmom

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Yeah Tracy, I think raw is the way to go. Your doing good with Brody. Keep us updated on what your doing!
> If you type in Orijen cat food recall you will find a lot of info. This only happened in Australia. Maybe because of the irradiated cat food that Australia required Orijen to do if they wanted to sell the food there, but Orijen handled it all wrong, and I guess Australia irradiates imports all the time. So I guess it's for the public to decide who's at fault??
> There are you tube video's of these poor cats that have paralyzed back legs. It so sad!
> I need to go ALL raw!


That is FRIGHTENING!!! And so sad!! People think they are doing the best thing for their pets and then something like that happens. UGH. Yes, I think raw is the way to go for health and safety.

Brodysmom


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

OMG.... I wish Bailey would eat raw/homemade raw food, I want so bad to be done with the whole commercial crap!


----------



## barefoot

Has anyone tried starting with raw ground beef or turkey. I remember trying that with my cat. Was easy when making a spagetti to put some aside. When they would see me cooking I think they thought they were getting something special I was cooking for the family.


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## Brodysmom

barefoot said:


> Has anyone tried starting with raw ground beef or turkey. I remember trying that with my cat. Was easy when making a spagetti to put some aside. When they would see me cooking I think they thought they were getting something special I was cooking for the family.


Yes I have. Brody LOVES raw hamburger. He eats it much better than the NV or the meatballs I made him. I would give it more, but it doesn't have any bone, and I'm afraid he'll get loose stools. I think it's a great occasional treat!

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Tracy, how is Brody doing with the meatballs??? Does he tolerate them okay? Will he eat the NV medallions at all anymore? 

Lisa, mine adore the NV kibble. I had no problem with the orijen but this is local and I get coupons and mine love it!!! Their poops are so small and have little to no smell. I know it's still kibble but it's made a big difference for them. 

I am totally still doing the raw. The kibble is my security blanket but I'm really working on "making the switch". It's a process and I'm glad we are all in this together!!!


----------



## pam6400

I feel like such a failure with the NV raw. Ben liked it, but 
Frankie gagged over it. He would run and hide. I gave it 2 weeks, nothing. I decided to take Ben off it too because it is too complicated to have one on it and one not on it... I really wanted this to work.


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## rcj1095

pam6400 said:


> I feel like such a failure with the NV raw. Ben liked it, but
> Frankie gagged over it. He would run and hide. I gave it 2 weeks, nothing. I decided to take Ben off it too because it is too complicated to have one on it and one not on it... I really wanted this to work.


I know you did girl. You tried your hardest. These little angels are just gonna give us a challenge, aren't they???:foxes15::foxes15::foxes15:


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## nicholeb5

pam6400 said:


> I feel like such a failure with the NV raw. Ben liked it, but
> Frankie gagged over it. He would run and hide. I gave it 2 weeks, nothing. I decided to take Ben off it too because it is too complicated to have one on it and one not on it... I really wanted this to work.


I have been feeding the NV to my boys for a few weeks or so now. Maverick inhales it but my Mr Picky, Harley has not been happy about it, I tried all the suggestions and the only way I could get him to eat it is to mix it with some shredded chicken breast, I did this for several days and slowly reduced the amount and for the last few days he has been eating it with only some parmesan cheese on top, which will be cutting out soon as well. I completely know how you feel with only one eating it, I plan on switching completely to raw and have tried some raw meat already and Harley acts like I am offering him poison. I would really give Frankie a while longer, also something that I think has helped Harley to eat is to cut back on treats so he is hungry. I didn't do that at first because he will throw up if he has an empty stomach, so I do offer a very snack just to tide him over.

Sorry so long this turned into a book!!


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## Zethsmommy

Good Luck to those with the picky eaters. 
I think what has made the transsision to raw so easy for Zeth is the fact that he eats right next to his big sister who weighs 65lbs. Sandy will eat anything you put in front of her. Zeth will watch her eat and then eat and guard his food while Sandy watches. 
Zeth has pretty much given up on eating the NV medallions. It's not challenging enough for him. He prefers the raw meat that he can chew and work on.


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## Muzby

At this point, I just want to remind people that SOME dogs won't like the medallions at all... or the home made stuff. Some dogs just want MEAT thankyouverymuch.  If your pup wont eat premade and you sincerely want to give raw a try, try just plain ground beef, chicken breast, cubes of steak/roast.

Betty turns her nose up at ANY "premade" raw now. She knows the good stuff. LOL


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## Brodysmom

Muzby said:


> At this point, I just want to remind people that SOME dogs won't like the medallions at all... or the home made stuff. Some dogs just want MEAT thankyouverymuch.  If your pup wont eat premade and you sincerely want to give raw a try, try just plain ground beef, chicken breast, cubes of steak/roast.
> 
> Betty turns her nose up at ANY "premade" raw now. She knows the good stuff. LOL


I"m not sure if this is what Brody's problem is or not. He isn't excited about any food. No matter what it is. He DID eat some raw hamburger the other day very willingly that I gave him that I was getting ready to make for our dinner. 

My question is... if I can get him to eat raw beef or turkey burger, that isn't balanced, is it? He can't just eat that, can he? Doesn't he need bone and organs too? This all gets so confusing to me.

Since I know he likes plain old hamburger, that's the reason I bought the grinder and made my own meatballs out of the whole chicken wings, grinding them whole. He will eat them, but reluctantly. 

I tried a cornish hen the other day. Raw and cut up with the bones. Nope. Wouldn't eat it AT ALL. He seems to prefer the ground meats, like hamburger, although I don't know why he doesn't like the meatballs I made since they are the same consistency! 

I'm so TIRED of all this. I want to just put down his food and have him eat it without all the work! Do you think that's ever going to happen? Maybe I should just go back to kibble. Although he doesn't like that either. 

I'm so discouraged.



Brodysmom


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## Muzby

Brodysmom said:


> My question is... if I can get him to eat raw beef or turkey burger, that isn't balanced, is it? He can't just eat that, can he? Doesn't he need bone and organs too? This all gets so confusing to me.
> 
> Since I know he likes plain old hamburger, that's the reason I bought the grinder and made my own meatballs out of the whole chicken wings, grinding them whole. He will eat them, but reluctantly.


Aw, don't be discouraged!  Have you had him checked out by the vet? Everything clear? How much would you say he eats per day? He probably only NEEDS to eat 2-3oz. if he's tiny.

No, it isn't balanced but it IS a start. Dogs can go a few months before they get deficient in any one thing. Maybe try the ground meat, grind your wings for bone content and grind some liver/kidney for the organ. Even all ground is better than none.. have you tried giving Brody something different EVERY DAY.. EVERY MEAL? 

Have you tried just chicken breast? Just beef cubed? Thawed AND frozen? 

If you really really get tired of it, you could try your own COOKED meals for him. Better than canned/kibble and I think he'd probably eat it more.. but for his sake, try and stick out the raw and try EVERYTHING MANY TIMES before you give up. I can't imagine how frustrating this is for you, but I'm here to cheer you on!


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## Brodysmom

Muzby said:


> Aw, don't be discouraged!  Have you had him checked out by the vet? Everything clear? How much would you say he eats per day? He probably only NEEDS to eat 2-3oz. if he's tiny.
> 
> No, it isn't balanced but it IS a start. Dogs can go a few months before they get deficient in any one thing. Maybe try the ground meat, grind your wings for bone content and grind some liver/kidney for the organ. Even all ground is better than none.. have you tried giving Brody something different EVERY DAY.. EVERY MEAL?
> 
> Have you tried just chicken breast? Just beef cubed? Thawed AND frozen?
> 
> If you really really get tired of it, you could try your own COOKED meals for him. Better than canned/kibble and I think he'd probably eat it more.. but for his sake, try and stick out the raw and try EVERYTHING MANY TIMES before you give up. I can't imagine how frustrating this is for you, but I'm here to cheer you on!


Yes, he just had a check up about 1.5 months ago when he was in for his heartworm test. Everything checked out great. Vet was very pleased with how he looked and said he was "just right" on weight, even though I think he's a little lean. (You can feel most of his ribs with just fingertip pressure and you can feel his hipbones and spine, covered by a thin layer). Vet was very complimentary on his teeth and his skin/coat. No issues there. Had a full panel of bloodwork done when he was 6 months old (4 months ago) and was normal on all his numbers there. No worms, parasites, or fleas. Walks 1-2 miles a couple times a week with hubby at a fast pace and keeps up with no problem and isn't even tired! Wants to go more! He weighs 4.8 pounds and is 10.5 months old.

The meatballs ARE ground chicken wings with skin and bones, a little liver, heart and gizzard.

How much does he eat per day?? Hmmmm..... here's a typical day, which was what he had yesterday.... one teaspoon of canned. (I used Blue Buffalo wilderness but I rotate between a bunch of different ones or he won't eat it.) It was mixed with a teaspoon of the Wysong Archetype. So a total of two teaspoons for breakfast. One kona chip at lunch. (100% dehydrated chicken jerky. The piece was about one inch by 2 inches). One meatball for dinner, which is the ground chicken wings I made. This was a CHORE. I had to hand feed it over about 20 minutes, practically forcing him to eat it. He finally ate it when the cat looked like she might eat it. He ate it ONLY to keep her from eating it. Chewed on a bully stick for probably an hour, really gnawing HARD on it, you could hear his chewing on it across the room. 

Stools: normal. An occasional softer one. No constipation or diarrhea issues. Goes twice a day. No nausea or vomiting.

Energy: VERY energetic as pointed out by his walks. Plays non stop. 

Yes, I've tried all different things. One day I'll offer a chicken medallion, or a beef one, or the homemade ground meatballs, or Wysong Archetype which is dehydrated raw. Tried Honest Kitchen packets and he wouldn't eat those at all. 

Plain raw chicken breast or plain raw beef.... no. He won't even lick them. I don't think he sees that as food, which is one reason I ground up the meatballs for him. So it would seem more like canned which he is familiar with. I haven't tried the meats frozen. 

I haven't cooked him any meals.

I will keep with it. But it's really getting discouraging. Thanks for trying to keep my spirits up. I'm not ready to give up yet. Thanks for all your help, I really do appreciate it. 

Any insight you have is great.

Brodysmom


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## ahra1284

omg i just spent an ENTIRE day reading this thread. i could hardly get work done today with all the absorption of information going on here. i gotta say, i'm super curious to try this for my dogs right now. if this reduces the number of times bam has to pee during teh day, that would be amazing. we take him out 3-4 times a day but he still uses the pee pad during the in between times and i would really like for him to be completely off the pee pad usage. I alwyas saw this in pet goods freezer section and just passed by without a thought but i'm really intrigued. i am definitely going to pick up some nupro this week, and i'm thinking about starting my chis on the medallions, at least for dinner as some of you guys ahve done here. bam and lucy are very, very hearty eaters, they will eat almost anything so i'm not worried about it at all. i'll keep everyone posted!


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## Brodysmom

Ahra - I can't wait for you to try it! It really is a wonderful way to feed our dogs. Soooo healthy for them. If you don't have picky eaters, they should do GREAT on the NV! I can't wait to hear!! Let us know what they think. You will be amazed at the difference. 

Brodysmom


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## ahra1284

tracy - now i'm really antsy. i know i can't get to the store today but i'm trying ot think of a way to get there! haha when i get my mind on something to try, i really go crazy over it. i've actually wanted to try the nupro for a while but bam has such a beautiful glossy coat taht i didn't think he needed it - lucy on the other hand, could use some sheen to her coat. i dont know if it's the puppy fuzzies or what, but it sure doesnt feel like when bam was a puppy. bah i hate work and my hours!


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## huskyluv

ahra1284 said:


> if this reduces the number of times bam has to pee during teh day, that would be amazing. we take him out 3-4 times a day but he still uses the pee pad during the in between times and i would really like for him to be completely off the pee pad usage.


I've never heard of a raw diet effecting the amount that a dog pees. Poo yes, but not pee.


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## ahra1284

i definitely could have read it wrong, it was tough going through 53 pages of this thread haha


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## huskyluv

Understood lol I'm pretty sure it's just less, more solid poo.


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## ahra1284

hey i'll take that too! sometimes bam's poop is so smelly


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## Muzby

Tracy, you may want to consider doing a mixed cooked/raw. Raw ground stuff mixed into cooked meat/gravy. This would SMELL amazing, and maybe that's what he needs.. something that SMELLS good.

Man, I wish I could borrow him for a few weeks and see what I could do..


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## Brodysmom

Muzby said:


> Tracy, you may want to consider doing a mixed cooked/raw. Raw ground stuff mixed into cooked meat/gravy. This would SMELL amazing, and maybe that's what he needs.. something that SMELLS good.
> 
> Man, I wish I could borrow him for a few weeks and see what I could do..


Muzby, I wish you could borrow him too. Knock some sense into the boy. HA!~ 

He did eat his meatball tonight, but I had to mix canned with it. At least he ate it. Hubby took him for a mile walk before dinner to stimulate his appetite but I don't think it helped. 

I'm thankful his stools are small and normal after all these changes and that all this messing around with his food doesn't upset his stomach. I don't think I could deal with diarrhea on top of everything else!

As always.... THANK YOU.

Brodysmom


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## barefoot

One of the first raw diet books I read was by Dr. Ian Billinghurst. Called "The BARF diet"
http://www.amazon.com/BARF-Diet-Fee...=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248840225&sr=8-6

I think it was him, I read a few books when I first started. It recommended that you have a fasting day once a week. A day that you let the dog rest from eating. Gives the body time to put energy into other things and not digesting food. They said that it was very natural, wolf like. Scientific reasons I don't remember or ever retained. Mubzy, do any of the raw forum people talk about this. I am sure the research is much better than yrs ago. 
Also raw food is digested much slower, so I don't think we need to worry about hypoglycemia as much. I am not a vet, don't know. But I don't think I would personally worry.
I have also been reasured that Raw fed dogs eat a whole lot LESS that kibble fed dogs. Some need very little.
KInda like kids they will eat and not starve themselves.
Though did anyone watch the Cesar Milan episode about BABY GIRL ? THe dobe/greyhound that would starve herself because of fear. That one wowed even Cesar.
Ok, Just my late night rambling and thoughts. 
I really enjoy reading all your journeys with feeding raw. Thank you for the motivation. THis is a great thread.


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## barefoot

double post


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## nicholeb5

Muzby said:


> At this point, I just want to remind people that SOME dogs won't like the medallions at all... or the home made stuff. Some dogs just want MEAT thankyouverymuch.  If your pup wont eat premade and you sincerely want to give raw a try, try just plain ground beef, chicken breast, cubes of steak/roast.
> 
> Betty turns her nose up at ANY "premade" raw now. She knows the good stuff. LOL


Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be Harley's problem. I gave both my boys a little hamburger several weeks ago just to see what they thought of raw. They both inhaled it, I tried a small piece of chicken breast a couple of days later and they both initially took it but as Harley started to chew he spit it out and ever since any kind of raw meat and actually anything I offer to Harley he has to sniff it before he will take it which is a huge change from me almost losing a finger or two. I have tried chicken wings, Maverick inhaled it Harley sniffed and walked away, I also, tried the hamburger again, nothing. I definitely haven't tried many types of meats and in no way am I giving up. This weekend I plan to start doing one of their meals raw (to start I plan on lightly cooking Harley's and then cooking it less over time until it is raw) and the other NV for a little longer. If anyone has any suggestions or advice I would appreciate it!


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## Muzby

With our super picky cats (shakes fist!) we mixed raw with canned food, and slowly reduced the canned and increased to raw. It took us 8mths to switch them, but we got there! Maybe this could be an option for the ones who don't like raw but liked canned.


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## rcj1095

Okay, I've gotten Lily to actually like the NV chicken medallions. She has no interest yet in the beef or lamb. Coop, Coco and Chloe love it now. Lily is my "problem" eater.

Tracy, I give you so much credit for not giving up. I would have packed it in a while ago. It's just crazy what you go through. Kelly has great advice and we are all here for you but I can't believe how little he eats. You know he's healthy though so it's just a matter of getting this squared away. Keep us posted honey and we are SO here for you!!!

Ahra, I'm so excited for you to try this!!! Mine love it. Lily is a bit of a problem but nothing like what poor Tracy goes through. Mine love the kibble with the nupro and the medallions. I've tried my hand at some raw but I am a true work in progress. If yours aren't picky, they will love it. Keep us posted and make sure you get the coupons!!! Kiss Bam and Lucy!


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## Brodysmom

Ok - guys, I just PM'd Kelly (Muzby) with this info but had to share it with you guys too!!!

I bought a cornish game hen at the store today. Thawed it out and cut it up. Gave Brody a leg, no skin, with the meat sliced on the bone (kind of hanging off it). At first he just licked it. Then he tried to bury it. He was in the crate so nowhere to bury it, but he was taking his nose and pushing his nose towards it and making the burying motion. Weird. 

So I took it out of the crate and held it in my hand, just like I do the bully sticks. He crawled up on my lap and licked it. I tore off a piece of the meat and gave it to him. He ate it. It's a MIRACLE. First raw chicken he's had, other than the NV medallions and the ground meatballs. He actually ate it! Wooppeeee!!!! 

He tore off 90% of the meat and ate it and then started working on the bone. He really gnaws the heck out of bullysticks, so I KNEW he could do this if he wanted. It took him awhile, but he finally did eat the knuckle end off and about halfway down the leg bone before he lost interest. 

That's pretty good, don't ya think?! I was sooooooooooo happy! 

I am hoping it doesn't upset his stomach. 

I cut up the rest of the hen and put it in a baggy in the fridge. Maybe I can finally get him to eat. Cross your fingers guys!!!

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Yea!!! Tracy I am so happy for you and Brody!!!
Wow! I am so impressed. 
My fingers are crossed!!


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## pam6400

Tracy I am sitting here with my mouth wide open. I am smiling like there is no tomorrow...... Can you believe it???? Yeah Brody man!! That is a giant step for mankind or dogkind??


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## rcj1095

Are you @$#%^%$^ me??? I can't wipe the smile off my face. God bless Kelly, it took her 8 months to switch. We want it in 2 weeks. Bless Brody's little heart, he probably had fun with that. I've got my fingers, toes, ankles, etc. crossed. I would just love Brody to enjoy this!!! Keep trying and keep us posted. I'm gonna start getting spunky like you!!! Congrats honey!


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

WOOO HOOOO Brody! Come over here and teach Bailey to eat like a good boy! Kahlua and Socks wolf it down... he just can't stand touch anything raw! GRR


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Okay, I have a question.
Since raw feeding does not include any grains, won't pets get hungrier faster?
The reason for my question is because I just switched my chi's to the NV Instinct Kibble which is grain free (they were on Karma, which has grains) and they eat it all up, but seem to get hungry hours later. They get the NV raw in the mornings and the NV kibble at night.
I gave them each 1/8 of a cup at first, but then increased it to 1/4 cup, except for Lola she still gets 1/8 cup. 
Proteins burn faster then carbs, and their food is mainly proteins. 
After they eat their dinner they are fine. It's just hours later that they seem hungry again. 
Will they adjust?


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## Brodysmom

I was just reading an article on this very subject and it was advocating just doing once a day feeding! And that their dogs don't get hungry eating once a day! I don't know what to think....

http://www.k9joy.com/dogarticles/dogfood01stomach.pdf

I really don't think I could do this type of feeding, or fasting either. But it is interesting to read about the anatomical differences in dog stomachs and why they are made to "gorge" food rather than just eat small meals multiple times a day.

Brody never seems to get hungry so I don't have that problem. It is always me introducing the food to him and trying to get him to eat. Today he absolutely refused his breakfast which was Wysong Archetype (dehydrated raw) mixed with canned and the Nupro. He took one sniff and went back to bed. Almost looked like it made him nauseous. He was so NOT happy.

So I just threw it away and then went to the store. Came home with the cornish game hen and gave him that around noon. He must have been hungry because he sure did eat it! With gusto even! wow!

He had a meatball for dinner. I made new ones... this new recipe has ground beef, canola oil, apple cider vinegar, a can of tripe, and a small can of salmon. It is the Urban Wolf recipe. I didn't add all the Urban Wolf powder it called for as it's mostly powdered veggies, flaxseed, etc. No bones, so it's not a complete meal replacement. But he did eat it, so I'm happy. 

Anyway... I am rambling! Sorry!! I will let others chime in on the hunger question! 

Brodysmom


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## Muzby

barefoot said:


> Mubzy, do any of the raw forum people talk about this. I am sure the research is much better than yrs ago.


Not a huge fan of BARF. Prey model is a much better option. Feeding only what a dog would naturally eat if left to fend for itself in the forest. 

Also, a fasting day is not such a great option as a rule (can still do it to hold out and MAKE your dog eat!). Fasting for people is an option, why would you purposely make your dog go hungry for a day if they WANTED to eat?! If I did that to my kids, it would be abuse.. same for dogs, IMO. That said, some dogs GORGE one day (chi eating whole chicken carcass as an example LOL) and then don't eat for days after. That is their choice. Many people give gorge meals to LARGE dogs. Never heard of it much with smaller ones, though.

Yes, raw digests differently, but when we were trying to get Betty on one larger meal a day, she would vomit bile at dinner time/bed time. So clearly she couldn't handle only eating once a day.


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## huskyluv

Such good news Tracy! Go Brody!!!




*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Okay, I have a question.
> Since raw feeding does not include any grains, won't pets get hungrier faster?
> The reason for my question is because I just switched my chi's to the NV Instinct Kibble which is grain free (they were on Karma, which has grains) and they eat it all up, but seem to get hungry hours later.


Now I don't feed raw yet, but when switching from a kibble with grain to a grain free kibble you do generally feed less which can leave your dog feeling less satisfied since it is eating less. This has been the case with Faith since switching her to a grain free kibble she is hungry sooner since her portion size has decreased. Although I'm not sure if that is the case for you.




*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Proteins burn faster then carbs, and their food is mainly proteins.
> After they eat their dinner they are fine. It's just hours later that they seem hungry again.
> Will they adjust?


I have always read that in dogs, they do not store carbs and that carbs are sort of a source of instant energy so to speak and whatever they don't use/need, they pass. Whereas protein needs to be processed by their body and stored before it becomes usable energy. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what all my research on canine nutrition has indicated.

And my two have adjusted over time to exactly what you're describing. When switching them to grain free kibbles they got smaller portions and were hungrier sooner but they have both adjusted over time.


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## Muzby

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Okay, I have a question.
> Since raw feeding does not include any grains, won't pets get hungrier faster?....
> After they eat their dinner they are fine. It's just hours later that they seem hungry again.
> Will they adjust?


First off. They are NOT hungry! They are working you! And you are falling for it! 

You should only need to feed your dog roughly 2-4% of their body weight. If they are getting one 1oz medallion and then 1/4 cup of kibble, you will likely notice they will get fatter. It's just too much. 

When we first switched to raw from kibble for the cats, they were ALWAYS hungry.. even now, when its near dinner/breakfast time.. YOU KNOW IT! 

:foxes15:*MEOW MEOW MEOW MEOW MEOW MEOW MEOW!!!!!!*:foxes15:

Do we feed them more? Nah. Cant give the fat kids more just because they cry.  Also, I believe they ask for it all the time because they LOVE IT so much! Darn right I'm asking for seconds of fresh watermelon or cheesecake MMMM

As for the way they process: Grains DONT process in a dog/cat. They are not MADE to process those things. Meat processes completely and well, as it should. That's why the amount/smell of poop goes down and the consistancy changes so much. They are finally USING everything they are getting, as opposed to just "evacuating" the junk filler.


----------



## BABY BABS

Congrats on Brody!!! It's so good to hear he's eating. I check this thread almost daily even though currently I've not had much time. So, I thought I would update you guys on how raw is going at my house. 

Babs, Lovee and Roxy are all still eating raw. I'm thinking about switching Jess, our cat. So far she's been uninterested. It's been about 5 weeks now. I am still getting 1-2 days with "soft" to "wet' poo. I'm not sure that it's the raw though, like I said, we've been quite busy and that tends to bother the chis. Other than those days though, we have smaller, scentless, only 2-3 per day poo. YEAH!! Prior to this, Lovee could poo 7-8 times a day and chase you right out of the area. I think I'm starting to see a texture change in Babs' coat. Lovee's has always been silky smooth and shiny, so I'm hoping for just less shedding. Roxy (our shepherd mix) has always had the most luxurious fur, thick and soft. Everybody comments on how she looks and then gets totally amazed again at how she feels. Many people say that they can't stop touching it. However, she is starting to smell better and her teeth are getting cleaner and cleaner. She's 9 yrs old so the teeth cleaning shows really well on her. There have been days where Babs and Lovee don't really feel like eating. They'll sniff at it and then go play. They don't seem to beg at a later time or inhale the next meal, so I almost think that the raw leaves them more satisfied. They've adjusted very well to two meals per day instead of the free feeding we used to do. So far the only down side I have noticed is that my rabbit population is getting large. Since Roxy gets raw from us, she isn't all that interested in working that hard for food. lol Besides, she's never liked all that fur. It causes furballs. lol


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Okay Thanks Valerie & Kelly!

I don't want them to gain weight!
I am going by the Natures Variety food calculator. It asks what I am feeding them, which is 50% raw and 50% kibble. Also their activity level. This is the amount they say to feed. 

When I poured the 1/8 cup of food in their bowls I had to laugh and say "that's it" Looks like the amount you would feed a hamster.Lol! So I went up to 1/4 cup of food, and that's for average activity.

I am learning so much about this topic, but still need help. I don't know if it's just me, but it is so confusing, and it doesn't help that I am scared to just go for it, and throw down a chicken leg!

Kelly can you help me?
I would love to give them raw meat, but how much? What kind? What should I feed in one day (each meal) that gives them what they need?
The muscle and organ thing has me confused. I went to the grocery store picked up some chicken legs and they had some chicken hearts and gizzards, but I put it all back because I wasn't sure. I felt like crying in the darn store! I know way to emotional.Lol!

A whole leg or thigh seems huge!

What do you suggest I feed them and how much of it in one meal? They are fed twice a day.

Lola weighs 3.5 I would like to maintain her weight 
Lily weighs 6 pounds she could stand to loose a pound 
Lila 4.5 maintain her weight
Maxx 5.7 maintain his weight

Any suggestions?


----------



## rcj1095

Lisa, Kelly will totally help you. Send her a pm if you want to. I get overwhelmed at the organ/muscle thing too. I'm going at this so slowly. Just got Lily to eat a chicken medallion. They did love the raw rib bone but that's as spunky as I've gotten. I'm taking it all in though. It'll happen.

I understand what you're saying about the kibble. It does seem like less but they will adjust. None of our dogs are going to starve. We just have to remember that this is a huge change for them and for us. It will take time and patience. 

I often do one meal a day for Coop and Coco. They do fine with it. I can't do that with the littles yet. I'm just going one day at a time with this.

Thank god for this thread or I would not be able to do this. Hang in.


----------



## Brodysmom

Lisa, I'll jump in here even though I'm not Kelly.... LOL!

I would say to buy a cornish hen. That's what I bought for Brody. It was frozen so I thawed it out. Then take your kitchen shears and cut it up, wings, legs, thighs, back, and then cut the breast into 2-3 pieces. Each piece should have bone in it. I peeled most of the skin off it, but eventually you want them to have that fat.

Take a fork or a knife and kind of shred the meat on the bone so that pieces are barely hanging on. Then they will get the taste of the chicken right away and want more.

Then just feed one meat/bone portion to each Chi. You might have to hold the piece to get them to gnaw on it. I did for Brody. But he is used to me holding his bully stick so he can get a really good grip on it and chew it really hard. 

The experts say to start with chicken and feed it exclusively for a couple weeks until poops are where you want them to be and they are used to it. Then gradually add in the organ meats. You are aiming for 80% muscle meat, 10 percent bone, and 10% organs, of that you want 5% to be liver. But you have time to add those in. Don't start too soon on the organs or they can get loose stools. 

Kelly, am I saying this right???

I've also heard you can start off with raw chicken wings, but they are pretty bony with not very much meat, so add some meat to it. Like with a plain raw breast that you chop up and give to each Chi in addition to the wing.

Gradually you can add in other meats for variety. But for now you just want to start with plain old raw chicken/bone. If the poops are loose, add more bone. If they are straining to go, add more meat. You just have to find the balance.

If they absolutely won't eat the raw chicken, you can add a sprinkle of parmesan cheese, or smear a little canned on it. If they still like the Nupro, you could make the nupro gravy and then dip the chicken in it to get them started on licking it and then eating it. 

I would feed in their crates with all the bedding out because it is a little messy to begin with. Or you can put a towel down in each crate that they can eat on. 

Hope this helps. It's really not as hard as it looks. But this is really OUR FIRST DAY so I probably shouldn't even be giving advice. LOL!

I also wanted to say that you don't have to do this 100%. You can do like you do with the NV, just replace a NV medallion meal with a bit of raw chicken/bone and see how it goes. You don't have to chuck the kibble and NV yet. Just go slow and do what you are comfortable with! 

Brodysmom


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Thanks for the pep talk Robin. 
I guess I shouldn't beat myself up to much. I have had dogs and cats my whole life, and this raw thing is just something so new. I want to do it right! 
I knew Lily would come around. Today NV medallions, tomorrow chicken thighs! Lol.


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Lisa, I'll jump in here even though I'm not Kelly.... LOL!
> 
> I would say to buy a cornish hen. That's what I bought for Brody. It was frozen so I thawed it out. Then take your kitchen shears and cut it up, wings, legs, thighs, back, and then cut the breast into 2-3 pieces. Each piece should have bone in it. I peeled most of the skin off it, but eventually you want them to have that fat.
> 
> Take a fork or a knife and kind of shred the meat on the bone so that pieces are barely hanging on. Then they will get the taste of the chicken right away and want more.
> 
> Then just feed one meat/bone portion to each Chi. You might have to hold the piece to get them to gnaw on it. I did for Brody. But he is used to me holding his bully stick so he can get a really good grip on it and chew it really hard.
> 
> The experts say to start with chicken and feed it exclusively for a couple weeks until poops are where you want them to be and they are used to it. Then gradually add in the organ meats. You are aiming for 80% muscle meat, 10 percent bone, and 10% organs, of that you want 5% to be liver. But you have time to add those in. Don't start too soon on the organs or they can get loose stools.
> 
> Kelly, am I saying this right???
> 
> I've also heard you can start off with raw chicken wings, but they are pretty bony with not very much meat, so add some meat to it. Like with a plain raw breast that you chop up and give to each Chi in addition to the wing.
> 
> Gradually you can add in other meats for variety. But for now you just want to start with plain old raw chicken/bone. If the poops are loose, add more bone. If they are straining to go, add more meat. You just have to find the balance.
> 
> If they absolutely won't eat the raw chicken, you can add a sprinkle of parmesan cheese, or smear a little canned on it. If they still like the Nupro, you could make the nupro gravy and then dip the chicken in it to get them started on licking it and then eating it.
> 
> I would feed in their crates with all the bedding out because it is a little messy to begin with. Or you can put a towel down in each crate that they can eat on.
> 
> Hope this helps. It's really not as hard as it looks. But this is really OUR FIRST DAY so I probably shouldn't even be giving advice. LOL!
> 
> I also wanted to say that you don't have to do this 100%. You can do like you do with the NV, just replace a NV medallion meal with a bit of raw chicken/bone and see how it goes. You don't have to chuck the kibble and NV yet. Just go slow and do what you are comfortable with!
> 
> Brodysmom


EXCELLENT. I'd say you are a pro at this already. That's exactly what I'm gonna do. One step at a time. Thanks Tracy.

Lisa, we are here for each other to support and learn this together. There are days I wanna just go back to the kibble. It was so easy. I know in my heart this is better for them so I'm just going at it slowly. Like Tracy said, it doesn't have to be a complete switch right away and even if we only ever touch the surface of raw, we are still doing good by our babies. I'm doing this at my own pace and my own comfort level. I will grab a cornish hen tomorrow and give it a whirl!!! I'll keep ya posted and you do the same. Smooches to you and all the babes!!!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Brodysmom said:


> Lisa, I'll jump in here even though I'm not Kelly.... LOL!
> 
> I would say to buy a cornish hen. That's what I bought for Brody. It was frozen so I thawed it out. Then take your kitchen shears and cut it up, wings, legs, thighs, back, and then cut the breast into 2-3 pieces. Each piece should have bone in it. I peeled most of the skin off it, but eventually you want them to have that fat.
> 
> Take a fork or a knife and kind of shred the meat on the bone so that pieces are barely hanging on. Then they will get the taste of the chicken right away and want more.
> 
> Then just feed one meat/bone portion to each Chi. You might have to hold the piece to get them to gnaw on it. I did for Brody. But he is used to me holding his bully stick so he can get a really good grip on it and chew it really hard.
> 
> The experts say to start with chicken and feed it exclusively for a couple weeks until poops are where you want them to be and they are used to it. Then gradually add in the organ meats. You are aiming for 80% muscle meat, 10 percent bone, and 10% organs, of that you want 5% to be liver. But you have time to add those in. Don't start too soon on the organs or they can get loose stools.
> 
> Kelly, am I saying this right???
> 
> I've also heard you can start off with raw chicken wings, but they are pretty bony with not very much meat, so add some meat to it. Like with a plain raw breast that you chop up and give to each Chi in addition to the wing.
> 
> Gradually you can add in other meats for variety. But for now you just want to start with plain old raw chicken/bone. If the poops are loose, add more bone. If they are straining to go, add more meat. You just have to find the balance.
> 
> If they absolutely won't eat the raw chicken, you can add a sprinkle of parmesan cheese, or smear a little canned on it. If they still like the Nupro, you could make the nupro gravy and then dip the chicken in it to get them started on licking it and then eating it.
> 
> I would feed in their crates with all the bedding out because it is a little messy to begin with. Or you can put a towel down in each crate that they can eat on.
> 
> Hope this helps. It's really not as hard as it looks. But this is really OUR FIRST DAY so I probably shouldn't even be giving advice. LOL!
> 
> I also wanted to say that you don't have to do this 100%. You can do like you do with the NV, just replace a NV medallion meal with a bit of raw chicken/bone and see how it goes. You don't have to chuck the kibble and NV yet. Just go slow and do what you are comfortable with!
> 
> Brodysmom


Thank you Tracy! You can jump in anytime. Heck you are the one that got me started on all this, so I take your advice to heart.

Okay, I am going to go buy a cornish hen tomorrow at the store. I hope they have one!
So I just give each dog a section that has the bone? It can't be that easy . I don't have to weigh anything? 

I will have to lay a blanket down for them to eat since taking out their bedding will be a process. 
That's so funny about Brody and the bullystick. I have to do the same for Lola.Lol!

This may sound dumb but what parts of the chicken are considered muscle? organs? Is the heart a muscle or an organ

How many meals do you get from one hen?

Thanks girl! I appreciate your help!

Edit: I still plan on doing the NV raw and kibble until I know for sure what the heck I am doing!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

rcj1095 said:


> EXCELLENT. I'd say you are a pro at this already. That's exactly what I'm gonna do. One step at a time. Thanks Tracy.
> 
> Lisa, we are here for each other to support and learn this together. There are days I wanna just go back to the kibble. It was so easy. I know in my heart this is better for them so I'm just going at it slowly. Like Tracy said, it doesn't have to be a complete switch right away and even if we only ever touch the surface of raw, we are still doing good by our babies. I'm doing this at my own pace and my own comfort level. I will grab a cornish hen tomorrow and give it a whirl!!! I'll keep ya posted and you do the same. Smooches to you and all the babes!!!


You all have been amazing! I just wish I could contribute something to all this instead of always asking questions.:daisy:

You are right I am going to go at my own pace and feed what I am comfortable with. 

Okay Robin, you get a hen and will compare notes tomorrow. Deal?
Love ya girl!


----------



## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> You all have been amazing! I just wish I could contribute something to all this instead of always asking questions.:daisy:
> 
> You are right I am going to go at my own pace and feed what I am comfortable with.
> 
> Okay Robin, you get a hen and will compare notes tomorrow. Deal?
> Love ya girl!


Deal sweetie, we'll have a "hen" party!!! I'll grab mine on the way home from work and see how it goes. Love YOU girl!!!


----------



## Muzby

Excel spreadsheet on how much raw to feed her dog (it actually says cat, but it's the same for each). 
http://artsiekat.com/forumpics/RawCatDiet.xls

Lola @ 3.5lbs
3.5	cat weight in pounds
2.0%	percent of body weight for food
80.0%	percent of meat in food
10.0%	percent of bone in food
5.0%	percent of liver in food
5.0%	percent of non-liver organ in food
6.3	ounces of meat per week
0.8	ounces of bone per week
0.4	ounces of liver per week
0.4	ounces of non-liver organ per week
7.8	ounces of total food per week

Lily @ 5lbs (losing that weight you have to feed for it)
5.0	cat weight in pounds
2.0%	percent of body weight for food
80.0%	percent of meat in food
10.0%	percent of bone in food
5.0%	percent of liver in food
5.0%	percent of non-liver organ in food
9.0	ounces of meat per week
1.1	ounces of bone per week
0.6	ounces of liver per week
0.6	ounces of non-liver organ per week
11.2	ounces of total food per week

Lila @ 4.5
4.5	cat weight in pounds
2.0%	percent of body weight for food
80.0%	percent of meat in food
10.0%	percent of bone in food
5.0%	percent of liver in food
5.0%	percent of non-liver organ in food
8.1	ounces of meat per week
1.0	ounces of bone per week
0.5	ounces of liver per week
0.5	ounces of non-liver organ per week
10.1	ounces of total food per week

Maxx @ 5.7
5.7	cat weight in pounds
2.0%	percent of body weight for food
80.0%	percent of meat in food
10.0%	percent of bone in food
5.0%	percent of liver in food
5.0%	percent of non-liver organ in food
10.2	ounces of meat per week
1.3	ounces of bone per week
0.6	ounces of liver per week
0.6	ounces of non-liver organ per week
12.8	ounces of total food per week

I did everyone @ 2%, if you start to feel too much rib/spine, up it to 3% for the ones who need it.

Kind: As Tracy said *tears up with pride* start with chicken only. At first this will be pricey (until you can switch to cheaper meats later), but chicken/turkey is generally the easiest on tummies. Although, since you guys were doing medallions first, you could probably intro beef at this point (which is richer than chicken and can cause tummy upset easier). 

There is no ONE WAY to do things. Some people feed 80/10/10 per day, some don't. I don't. I feed 80/10/10 per week. I find it easier for myself. I make sure they eat bone every 3 days and once a week get a whole meal of organ meat (and switch off weeks between liver and others). 

Muscle: roasts, breasts, shoulders, tongue, heart, tripe, gizzards, etc. 

Organ: kidney, spleen, pancreas, testicles, brain, thymus, lung, etc.

Then liver.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

rcj1095 said:


> Deal sweetie, we'll have a "hen" party!!! I'll grab mine on the way home from work and see how it goes. Love YOU girl!!!


HA! 
A "hen" party it is! ccasion7:


----------



## Muzby

Brodysmom said:


> Lisa, I'll jump in here even though I'm not Kelly.... ... It's really not as hard as it looks. But this is really OUR FIRST DAY so I probably shouldn't even be giving advice...



*tears up* Tracy, I am so proud of you. 

Even if you just started, you're giving sound advice and DOING WONDERFULLY!

*sobs* Soon you girls won't need me anymore! I feel like a mother hen.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Thank you Kelly!!!
I am writing all this down so I can reference back to it.
You really know your stuff!


----------



## ahra1284

ok you guys after 3 whole days of waiting, i'm finally going to the store right after work to get the natures variety chicken medallions. I know they are 1 oz each (is this correct?) and i'm going to be giving it to my pups for dinnertime, how much should they get each? Bam is 8.4lbs, and he gets his wellness core twice a day. Lucy is just about 2lbs, and she is fed 3 times a day on wellness puppy. So excited to try this! I'm also picking up some nupro today also.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

ahra1284 said:


> ok you guys after 3 whole days of waiting, i'm finally going to the store right after work to get the natures variety chicken medallions. I know they are 1 oz each (is this correct?) and i'm going to be giving it to my pups for dinnertime, how much should they get each? Bam is 8.4lbs, and he gets his wellness core twice a day. Lucy is just about 2lbs, and she is fed 3 times a day on wellness puppy. So excited to try this! I'm also picking up some nupro today also.


Yea!! I am so happy your going to give it a try!
When you get the medallions they will be frozen so you will need to thaw them in the fridge.
NV has a feeding calculator so go on their website. It will tell you how much to feed. It's really easy.
You will LOVE the Nupro. It really is awesome stuff!
Good luck and I will let someone else jump in here with some good suggestions and tips.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

I have went to two grocery stores and I can't find a darn cornish hen!!! Are they rare or something?Lol! 
I'm going to leave now and try another store. I hope it's not frozen or I won't be able to feed the chi's it tonight for dinner.

Okay, I'm off hen hunting! 
I shall return


----------



## Brodysmom

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> I have went to two grocery stores and I can't find a darn cornish hen!!! Are they rare or something?Lol!
> I'm going to leave now and try another store. I hope it's not frozen or I won't be able to feed the chi's it tonight for dinner.
> 
> Okay, I'm off hen hunting!
> I shall return


So funny!!! Hen hunting!! I found a huge bin of them at Walmart. They had big ones in a 2 pack and then next to it they had little bitty ones. I think they were $1.50 each. Not expensive and not rare. HA! I hope you find them! I put it in a pan of hot water for about an hour and it thawed completely. Hope you find one!

Brodysmom


----------



## Muzby

Brodysmom said:


> I put it in a pan of hot water for about an hour and it thawed completely.


Careful with this, anything with whole bone should never see hot water. It will start to cookthe bones and that can cause problems.


----------



## Brodysmom

Muzby said:


> Careful with this, anything with whole bone should never see hot water. It will start to cookthe bones and that can cause problems.


oh wow. Never thought of that!! Ok, will thaw in the fridge from now on. I was just anxious to get it thawed out.  Thanks for the tip and for keeping us all on track!!!

I should add that it was a pan of hot water in the SINK, not simmering on the stove or anything. But I still won't do that again. 

Brodysmom


----------



## ahra1284

ok so i gave bam 1.5 medallion and lucy the remaining half - does this sound like a correct portion? either way, they GOBBLED up the stuff, bam was done in maybe 15 seconds and lucy it took her a while but she was licking the bowl clean! i knew they would love it i mean theylove everything thats given to them so it's not a problem. how much nupro should i give them? i cant wait till i see results from the nv!


----------



## rcj1095

Okay, I give Coop 3 medallions when it's all he's eating for the day and he weighs 8 or 9 pounds. If you cut that in half for half of a day, that's perfect. I give the littles 1 each and it's their main meal for the day. Chloe and Lily each weigh close to 3 lbs. 2.10 and 2.12 lbs. Coco gets two when it's her main meal. She weighs between 4 and 4-1/2 depending. Mine love it too (Lily is "getting" there). Good luck Ahra and you'll see a difference within a few weeks of the nupro and the medallions. The nupro instruction should be on the box. I just sprinkle it on twice a day to start and then I'll go down to once a day (for maintenance) just like they recommend. Keep us posted and I'm so excited for you and the babies!!!

Lisa, no hens for me today either. I worked much longer than I thought so I'll try the hen experience this weekend. Please post as soon as you try it!!!

Tracy, you are getting really good at this girl. Thank you.

Kelly, as always, thanks for your help and guidance. We'll always "need" you!!!


----------



## ahra1284

haha sorry robin i didnt see this post i am way too impatient. do your pups like the taste of nupro? it smelled gross!! i kind of have fun with the medallions they look yummy! haha bam was going crazy when i was putting it in his bowl. crazy dogs!! i'm on the livingroom floor on my laptop and the dogs are just going absolutely mad playing with each other! possible raw zoomies????


----------



## rcj1095

ahra1284 said:


> haha sorry robin i didnt see this post i am way too impatient. do your pups like the taste of nupro? it smelled gross!! i kind of have fun with the medallions they look yummy! haha bam was going crazy when i was putting it in his bowl. crazy dogs!! i'm on the livingroom floor on my laptop and the dogs are just going absolutely mad playing with each other! possible raw zoomies????


Oh yea sister, they go mad with that raw. You're not impatient at all honey, you're just anxious to try something new. I'm the same way. You pm me anytime, day or night, got it??? I'm fascinated with the medallions also. Mine adore the taste of the nupro. They like it better when I make the gravy but I've sprinkled it dry also and they eat it. I never let mine get too used to anything. I switch it up. I don't want high maintenance dogs!!! Keep us posted and I'm so glad you joined our little group here!!!:coolwink:


----------



## ahra1284

how could i not join?? you guys make it seem so fun haha


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Well, no hens! I went to 3 stores!! 

Tracy I will give Walmart a try. 
I actually went to Walmart in between going to the grocery stores, and didn't even think to look at the food section for hens! That's a good price too. Not expensive at all. If Walmart has them I will be stocking up! 

Alright girls I will let you all know how it goes.


----------



## Zethsmommy

The grocery stores in my area sell the Tyson Cornish hens in the frozen section that are not enhanced with sodium. 
The fresh hens (bigger ones) in the chicken area all seem to be enhanced with sodium so I'm staying away from those.
I will have to check at Walmart on my next visit. 
Zeth and Sandy are getting Hens this morning for breakfast.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

:foxes_207: I got my hens!:foxes_207:

I found them at Walmart! 
I got a package of two Tyson hens for about $6.00.
I am defrosting one in the fridge and put the other in the freezer. They had plenty there so no need to stock up .

This will be breakfast tomorrow. 
I am so excited, and can't believe I am following through with it! I would have never in a million years thought that I would feed my pets raw meat! 
I mean I know they are already getting the NV raw medallions, but that comes in a nice pretty package and doesn't seem as "raw" as giving them a raw hen. Does that make sense? Lol!

Okay, when I cut the hens up, how many pieces will I get from it? Tracy, I know you told me before but can you please tell me again.Thanks.

Do I let them eat the entire piece, but not the fat?


----------



## rcj1095

I am so excited for you!!! I have to go on a "hen" hunt tomorrow. I can't wait to see how yours do with this. I will be checking this out tomorrow to get a "full" report.


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## Brodysmom

Ok - this is what I did for Brody..... I got the smaller hens than the Tysons in the two pack. Those are pretty good sized, which should work out great for your 4! 

Get out the kitchen shears and start cutting. You want bone/meat in each piece. So cut the wings off, cut off the legs, and then the thighs. Then cut up both sides. Split the back into several pieces, then cut the breast into at least 3-4 pieces. I took off the fat and skin. They don't need that yet. You are just trying to get them used to it.

Once you are ready to feed, just give one small raw meaty bone to each Chi. Hopefully they'll dig right in! Don't be alarmed when they start crunching up the bones.  I had to get Brody started on his. Cut the meat on the drumstick into little ribbons, barely attached to the bone so he could get a taste of the chicken. Once he pulled off all that, he was ready to eat the bone and I held it for him (like a bullystick) and he gnawed away at it and really enjoyed it. 

Today I fed him half of a breast. He did fine with it. We've had perfect, tiny stools and no problems at all. He seems really satisfied after he eats it too. 

You eventually want to add in some skin and some organs but that can wait until they are doing really well on the chicken.  

Think about how big the NV medallions are. That's about how much you want to feed. Not very much. Don't overdo it. 

I can't wait till you try it!!! It really is fun to watch them eat it. I've never seen Brody enjoy food before. 

Brodysmom


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Thank you Tracy! I will do exactly what you suggested.

I found this while searching the net. It talks about feeding raw to toy breeds. It will make some of us newbies to raw feeding a bit more knowledgeable, and comfortable feeding our chi's raw.  

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/toybreeds.html

I suggest you click on each Myth and read all about it. I have learned a lot and it totally makes so much more sense to feed a dog raw! Why in the world did we start feeding them commercial food to begin with!?! I am thrilled that I am making the change! Yea! 
http://rawfed.com/myths/


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

*Whoo-hoo!*

This morning I gave my chi's their first Cornish Hen for breakfast!
This is how it went.
I got the hen out of the fridge, but it was still a tiny bit frozen, so I set it in some cold water for about 10 minutes. After it thawed I started cutting off pieces. Then I pulled off all the fat. I couldn't get off all the fat on the wings though.
I dried off the pieces that I was going to feed the chi's, and wrapped up the rest and put it back into the fridge.
I had two wings and two drumsticks. I also cut up a few tiny pieces of meat to give them at first... just to get their taste buds going!
Alright, so I laid down an old blanket to feed them on. By this time the chi's are circling and whining for their food. I went to sit down and they were already trying to pull the meaty bones off the plate! I told them "wait" and they backed off... a little bit.Lol! 
I gave them each a little piece of meat, and they gobbled it down. So I started passing out their meaty bones!
I gave the two bigger chi's Lily & Maxx, the drumsticks since they had more meat, and bone. I gave Lola and Lila the wings since they are smaller.
THEY LOVED IT!!!
Oh what happy little chi's! I just loved hearing the crunching, and seeing them ripping and tearing the chicken apart. They really enjoyed it, and so did I!
All four stayed on the blanket and ate their food. I must say it is messy, but they licked the blanket clean afterward... I do still need to wash it though.

My only concern is Lola. She is the tiniest (3.5 lbs.), and downed her food like it was nothing! She chewed it a LITTLE, but basically swallowed it in big pieces. Will she be okay? She never once gagged on a piece that she swallowed and nothing got caught in her throat. I mean she handled it fine, but that can't be good for her to do... right? Will she be okay?

Now for the questions!

How do I know if I am feeding them to much? The drumsticks were pretty big, and had a pretty big bone. The wings were I guess an alright size, a little big, but didn't have much meat on it. All the pieces were a lot bigger then their NV medallions.
Are they getting to much bone and/or meat? Did I over feed them? Am I supposed to feed them that daily or do they only get bone a couple of times a week. Kelly I think I remember you said that you don't do it everyday.
What should I feed them tomorrow? 
I am thinking that the pieces of meat were to big that they ate today, so should I cut the drumsticks in half for next time? How do I know what the right amount is 

I know so many questions!!:laughing1:

I'm just worried that I will constipate them or not give them enough of something. Plus it concerns me about Lola gulping the bone down. 

Pictures during breakfast. Some of the pics came out blurry :foxes15:


Maxx

























Lily

















Lola








Lola looking for more... little piggy!









Lila









*Okay Robin, it's your turn!:laughing1:*


----------



## Zethsmommy

Yeah, I'm so happy for you that they loved it. Loved the pics.
I know I'm still trying to figure out just how much to feed Zeth. Somedays he can eat one time a day and be fine. Other days like today he's constantly running in the kitchen staring at his empty bowl. Zeth seems to have more energy and is much more active and can go on longer walks now that he is on raw. I've also noticed a huge difference in his teeth now with the raw. They are sparkling white all the time. 
I gave Zeth his first piece of chicken liver today. I never laughed so hard. He couldn't figure out how to get it out of the bowl. He licked and licked for what seemed forever. I finally picked it up and cut it into bits. He then tried to lick each little piece as it flew out of the bowl and onto the floor. He did that till all the bits of liver where scattered. he then tried but just couldn't figure out how to keep it in his mouth. The more he licked it the slimmerer it got. I finally had to hand feed him each little piece.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Zethsmommy said:


> Yeah, I'm so happy for you that they loved it. Loved the pics.
> I know I'm still trying to figure out just how much to feed Zeth. Somedays he can eat one time a day and be fine. Other days like today he's constantly running in the kitchen staring at his empty bowl. Zeth seems to have more energy and is much more active and can go on longer walks now that he is on raw. I've also noticed a huge difference in his teeth now with the raw. They are sparkling white all the time.
> I gave Zeth his first piece of chicken liver today. I never laughed so hard. He couldn't figure out how to get it out of the bowl. He licked and licked for what seemed forever. I finally picked it up and cut it into bits. He then tried to lick each little piece as it flew out of the bowl and onto the floor. He did that till all the bits of liver where scattered. he then tried but just couldn't figure out how to keep it in his mouth. The more he licked it the slimmerer it got. I finally had to hand feed him each little piece.


Thank you! 

Lol! You need to film Zeth or at least take pictures of him next time you feed him the liver. 

I am so glad Zeth is doing good on the raw. Give us updates on how it's going.


----------



## Brodysmom

Zethsmommy - what a funny story about the liver!! Brody's not a fan, but what else is new. *sigh!*

Lisa - I am SO HAPPY to hear your hen story. My gosh your kids did so good. WOW!!!! That is beyond amazing that they took to it so well. I'm so proud of you! As for how much, etc..... remember that this type of meal doesn't have all the fillers in it that kibble does, so they actually eat less. 2% of their body weight to start and then you can go up from there. So for a 4 pound dog that is only 1.28 ounces!! Think about the size of the medallions. That is one ounce. Or about the size of a golf ball. 

If you can, you want a little bone with each meaty meal to keep stools firm. If the stools are soft, add more bone. If they seem to strain or seem constipated, then add more meat. 

For the gulpers, you can either hold the meat to encourage them to chew it slower, or you can feed it semi-frozen so she has to chew it to get the meat off. I've also heard that you can bash up the bones a bit with a hammer so it's not one big solid hunk. Also, I would give Lola a bigger piece so she has to work harder and isnt' so easy to swallow whole. So maybe give her a thigh next time or part of a breast (depending how big it is). You don't want to over do it but it sounds like you are DOING PERFECT!!!! 

Just keep doing what you are doing for about 2 weeks and make sure you have good stools and then you can add variety and your bit of organ. I have given Brody a little variety since he's had the meatballs, etc. so I gave him a golf ball sized portion of beef brisket today for lunch and he did eat it! NO bone in it though so I'll watch his stools and adjust. 

Isn't it fun?! I never thought feedings dogs could be fun. 

brodysmom


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Brodysmom said:


> Zethsmommy - what a funny story about the liver!! Brody's not a fan, but what else is new. *sigh!*
> 
> Lisa - I am SO HAPPY to hear your hen story. My gosh your kids did so good. WOW!!!! That is beyond amazing that they took to it so well. I'm so proud of you! As for how much, etc..... remember that this type of meal doesn't have all the fillers in it that kibble does, so they actually eat less. 2% of their body weight to start and then you can go up from there. So for a 4 pound dog that is only 1.28 ounces!! Think about the size of the medallions. That is one ounce. Or about the size of a golf ball.
> 
> If you can, you want a little bone with each meaty meal to keep stools firm. If the stools are soft, add more bone. If they seem to strain or seem constipated, then add more meat.
> 
> For the gulpers, you can either hold the meat to encourage them to chew it slower, or you can feed it semi-frozen so she has to chew it to get the meat off. I've also heard that you can bash up the bones a bit with a hammer so it's not one big solid hunk. Also, I would give Lola a bigger piece so she has to work harder and isnt' so easy to swallow whole. So maybe give her a thigh next time or part of a breast (depending how big it is). You don't want to over do it but it sounds like you are DOING PERFECT!!!!
> 
> Just keep doing what you are doing for about 2 weeks and make sure you have good stools and then you can add variety and your bit of organ. I have given Brody a little variety since he's had the meatballs, etc. so I gave him a golf ball sized portion of beef brisket today for lunch and he did eat it! NO bone in it though so I'll watch his stools and adjust.
> 
> Isn't it fun?! I never thought feedings dogs could be fun.
> 
> brodysmom


Thank you Tracy! I am pretty proud of myself too, and my chi babies! They really did love it. I feel like I fed them something they needed and were lacking in their diet.Yea!

I know I gave them more then what they should have had though. So, I guess if the drumstick or wing is to big I can cut it into smaller pieces... right? I thought I was supposed to give them the whole piece.
They seem fine though and are sleeping now. I'm going to buy an ounce scale so that I can weigh their food. Lola only gets 1/2 medallion and she just ate a whole wing. 


It's going to take me a while to feel comfortable in knowing what the heck I am doing, and I hope you all will bare with me and continue to help me.

I will definitely hold Lola's next time. I didn't think she would down it like that.

So, I'm supposed to feed them a certain percentage of meat and bone daily... right? Then after two weeks add in the organs and change meats... right? If they are constipated give more bone, and if they have loose poops give more meat... right?  


Good Job Brody!!! Yea!!!
He seems to be doing really good. He is even trying new meats! He will soon be no problem feeding. I think he has just been holding out for the good stuff!


----------



## Zethsmommy

> Lol! You need to film Zeth or at least take pictures of him next time you feed him the liver.


I posted a Video of Zeth the other day eating a chicken wing. He does much better eating the larger pieces providing I remove all the skin and large fat pieces. I also noticed that Zeth eats his entire raw standing up. He never lays down while eating.




As for the ounce scale I do have one and tried the first couple days to weigh his food. If I only fed him 2 or 3 ounces measured out it looks like nothing. One piece of just the thigh bone was 2 to 3 ounces without any meat on it. I gave up on the scale but am keeping a close eye on his weight and his poops have been once a day and firm. If I feel he's getting too much bone, I will take it away before he gorges everything and save it for a day when he gets just meat.
We've also increased our walks to several 15 or 20 min. walks.


----------



## Brodysmom

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> So, I'm supposed to feed them a certain percentage of meat and bone daily... right? Then after two weeks add in the organs and change meats... right? If they are constipated give more bone, and if they have loose poops give more meat... right?


Ultimately you aim for 80% muscle meats, 10% bone, and 10% organs, 5% of it has to be liver. And yes, just get them used to it for now. I've read that feeding new meats too soon can cause loose stools. And you have the poops just the opposite... if you want to firm up poop - give bone. If they are constipated, add meat! 

I am so excited for you!! Can't believe you were soooo successful at their first try at raw! Wow! I'm so impressed!!

Brody didn't want to eat dinner today at all. That's OK. I'm not going to stress over it. He will be hungry tomorrow and I'll try again then. 

Brodysmom


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Zethsmommy said:


> I posted a Video of Zeth the other day eating a chicken wing. He does much better eating the larger pieces providing I remove all the skin and large fat pieces. I also noticed that Zeth eats his entire raw standing up. He never lays down while eating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the ounce scale I do have one and tried the first couple days to weigh his food. If I only fed him 2 or 3 ounces measured out it looks like nothing. One piece of just the thigh bone was 2 to 3 ounces without any meat on it. I gave up on the scale but am keeping a close eye on his weight and his poops have been once a day and firm. If I feel he's getting too much bone, I will take it away before he gorges everything and save it for a day when he gets just meat.
> We've also increased our walks to several 15 or 20 min. walks.


Oh yeah, Zeth is enjoying his chicken wing!.Lol!
I love the video. Two ounces doesn't seem like much, but right now they are eating only one NV medallion and that is only one ounce. Lola only gets half a medallion, 1/2 ounce. So I won't be to shocked when I see the tiny amount of meat their going to get.Lol.
I will probably need it in the begining until I am able to 'wing' it. Ha!

Thanks for the video! 



Brodysmom said:


> Ultimately you aim for 80% muscle meats, 10% bone, and 10% organs, 5% of it has to be liver. And yes, just get them used to it for now. I've read that feeding new meats too soon can cause loose stools. And you have the poops just the opposite... if you want to firm up poop - give bone. If they are constipated, add meat!
> 
> I am so excited for you!! Can't believe you were soooo successful at their first try at raw! Wow! I'm so impressed!!
> 
> Brody didn't want to eat dinner today at all. That's OK. I'm not going to stress over it. He will be hungry tomorrow and I'll try again then.
> 
> Brodysmom


Thanks for correcting me on the poop thing.Lol. I try and write everything down so fast that I mix things up.

What did you try and feed Brody for dinner? Same as this morning? 

I'm not sure what to feed the chi's for dinner tonight. I already defrosted some NV medallions for dinner, but do you think that might be to much for them right now?

If anyone can recommend a good book about raw feeding I would appreciate it!


----------



## rcj1095

Lisa, I am so proud of you. Yipee!!! So, ur fine with the medallions for dinner. That is our total backup. I am going to try the hens tomorrow and I can only hope for as much success as you've had. Keep going girl, you're doing great!!!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

rcj1095 said:


> Lisa, I am so proud of you. Yipee!!! So, ur fine with the medallions for dinner. That is our total backup. I am going to try the hens tomorrow and I can only hope for as much success as you've had. Keep going girl, you're doing great!!!


Thanks Robin! 
Well I wasn't sure what to feed them for dinner, so I feed them a tiny bit, like 10 pieces, of the NV Instinct kibble with the Nupro. I wasn't sure if giving them the medallions for dinner would be good. I thought it might be to much raw. Probably not, but I wasn't sure, so I opted for a tiny bit of kibble. Basically it was a snack . They seemed to still be full from breakfast. I think I might have gave them to much for breakfast, but I'm learning.

They haven't pooped yet, and I am wondering if that is normal or okay. They went this morning BEFORE their hen breakfast, but haven't went since then. That concerns me. Do you think that is okay?

Make sure to let us know how it goes with your babies! I am sure they are going to gobble it up. If they like the medallions they will probably love the hens. 
Tracy is so right, who knew feeding our dogs would be so much fun. Lol!
Good luck! My fingers are crossed for ya!


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## Brodysmom

Lisa - their bodies process raw different than kibble. They use most of what is in it. So their poop is small and not as frequent. Sometimes Brody just goes once a day! Which is amazing as when he was on kibble, sometimes he'd go 4 times a day. So just be on the lookout for poops and hopefully they will be good ones. Who thought we'd be feeding raw and excited about poop patrol! ha!

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Brodysmom said:


> Lisa- Who thought we'd be feeding raw and excited about poop patrol! ha!
> Brodysmom



Lol! Your telling me! The first thing I did this morning was let the chi's out of their rooms, and waited until they did their business so I could do poop patrol. 
They all went poop and it was just how it should be. Yea!!
Now I'm going to get get their hen breakfast ready!!

You see... the highlight of my morning is poop, and raw food!Lol!

What do you think I should give them for dinner? Do you think the medallions are okay, or more raw hen? Or is that to much raw to start with? 

How did Brody do this morning?


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## Brodysmom

If they are doing good on the hen, you can just do that. If you want to do a NV medallion you are OK on that too. Just do what you are comfortable with. They may decide they just like the hens and not like the NV anymore! I hope not as it's nice to have that flexibility. 

Brody didn't eat breakfast this morning. I offered him a hen thigh for lunch and he wouldn't eat that either. He just wanted to play with his ball. So I took it away and he wouldn't quit looking for it! Frustrating! I am going to try again pretty soon. We've had company here all weekend and his routine is really messed up. So we'll see ..... the continuing saga!! ha!

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Thanks Tracy... I wanted to do the hens.

I am trying to figure out a way that I can prepare their meals for the week. That way it's easier and I am not always cutting up raw meat every day.

If I did the math right on the chart Kelly did for me Lola, for example, should only get a total of about 1.11 ounce of food a day, and that's about 7.8 ounces a week (7 days).
It seems so little!!
She should have 0.90 ounces of meat, 0.11 ounces of bone, 0.05 ounces of organ, and 0.05 ounces of liver.

I am going to try and have all their meals prepared ahead of time, and freeze them so all I have to do is defrost and serve.

I will have to wait until I can start adding in the organ and liver though. By then I should have a ounce scale so I am hoping it will be easy.


The saga! Lol! It sure is! 
Brody will get back on track once the company leaves, and he resumes his everyday routine. 
Do you feed Brody in his crate? I was thinking about that earlier, and I thought if you are, maybe that is why he refuses his raw food sometimes? Just a thought.


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## Brodysmom

Lisa - don't laugh.... but I have to feed Brody ON MY LAP. I have to hold his raw chicken portion in my fist and then he chews on it like a bully stick. It's really dumb. I'm hoping that we can stop doing this pretty soon. If I put it in his crate, he just goes crazy trying to bury it!! I tell you what.... this little boy drives me crazy. You are soooooooooo lucky that yours just eat like they are supposed to!!!

I like your idea of getting a weeks full of meals ready. That's a good idea. I know.... it doesn't seem like much food, does it?! I still give Brody occasional snacks too. 

I just got two bags of kibble that I ordered awhile ago. Innova Evo and NV Instinct Rabbit. I opened the rabbit this morning since he didn't eat much at all yesterday and he didn't eat ANY of it. Absolutely crazy.

brodysmom


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## voodewlady

Brodysmom said:


> http://www.naturesvariety.com/raw_products
> 
> I've heard really good things about this food. It comes frozen into medallions and you just take out the portion from the freezer and thaw overnight and then feed the next day. It's supposed to be super easy and convenient, with all the benefits of the raw diet and none of the mess. It's already portioned out of the correct balance of muscle/organ/veggies/vitamins.
> 
> Brody is such a BAD eater. I just would love to find something he would enjoy eating and that he would eat with gusto and do well on. Don't get me wrong.... he looks great on Orijen and I'm happy with his skin/coat/activity level and stools, etc. It's just that he doesn't seem to like ANY food I give him. He likes it for a couple meals and then he quits liking it and it's another battle to get him to eat. He likes his treats and loves his Kona's Chips, so it's not that he doesn't like any food! Just not crazy about dog food.
> 
> I wonder if I could just use this as a supplement to kibble? Like mix it in with his kibble or something? I'm so scared to go to an all raw diet.
> 
> Opinions??
> 
> Oh, here's the ingredients... Looks good to me.
> 
> NGREDIENTS: Chicken, Raw Ground Chicken Bone, Turkey, Turkey Liver, Turkey Heart, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove




Do you feed this alone or with a high quality kibble? How much are they?


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## Brodysmom

HI Erin - 

The NV medallions are raw feeding. They come 48 to a bag. It's pretty economical since Chi's are little! When Brody was eating them, he was eating 1 a day (he was on kibble for half of his meals). 

You can do it how you want. If you want to just go to raw feeding, you can just feed the NV medallions, or you can use them as a supplement and feed kibble at one meal and the NV at another meal. 

A bag is about $18 around here. There's a buy one, get one free coupon you can use so that makes it pretty cheap. 

Brodysmom


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## voodewlady

Where are you buying them? I found 3 places close that sell it. 2 in Wichita and 1 in Andover. Where do you find the B1G1 coupon? I saw on the NV website that they have a trial size bag for $4.99. Have you seen this by chance? That would be a great way for me to try these out before committing to a full size bag. Also, since Paige is so little, do you think she would eat a whole medallion or maybe just 1/2? I will keep her on the Wellness Puppy too since I bought a bag already. Give her a bit of variety. I just hope she likes it all. :munky2:


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

I wish Bailey would eat ANYTHING raw... he is such a brat!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Brodysmom said:


> Lisa - don't laugh.... but I have to feed Brody ON MY LAP. I have to hold his raw chicken portion in my fist and then he chews on it like a bully stick. It's really dumb. I'm hoping that we can stop doing this pretty soon. If I put it in his crate, he just goes crazy trying to bury it!! I tell you what.... this little boy drives me crazy. You are soooooooooo lucky that yours just eat like they are supposed to!!!
> 
> I like your idea of getting a weeks full of meals ready. That's a good idea. I know.... it doesn't seem like much food, does it?! I still give Brody occasional snacks too.
> 
> I just got two bags of kibble that I ordered awhile ago. Innova Evo and NV Instinct Rabbit. I opened the rabbit this morning since he didn't eat much at all yesterday and he didn't eat ANY of it. Absolutely crazy.
> 
> brodysmom


Tracy I would never laugh. I say do whatever works! Brody sure does give you a hard time though. 
I think it's just his age. As he matures maybe food will become more appealing. Right now I think he is young and playing is all that is on his mind. You know, sort of like our human kids. 
Maybe you could give Brody his food in an enclosed area, so that he can't bury his food, and then just ignore him? Maybe??? I am sure you have tried it all, and I would have been pulling out my hair by now. 
You know, he is healthy, and looks amazing so, I wouldn't worry about. He will come around.
That little stinker!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

voodewlady said:


> Where are you buying them? I found 3 places close that sell it. 2 in Wichita and 1 in Andover. Where do you find the B1G1 coupon? I saw on the NV website that they have a trial size bag for $4.99. Have you seen this by chance? That would be a great way for me to try these out before committing to a full size bag. Also, since Paige is so little, do you think she would eat a whole medallion or maybe just 1/2? I will keep her on the Wellness Puppy too since I bought a bag already. Give her a bit of variety. I just hope she likes it all. :munky2:


If you go to the Natures Variety website they have a feeding calculator. You enter a little info about your chi and it will tell you how much to feed.
Good luck!



*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> I wish Bailey would eat ANYTHING raw... he is such a brat!


LOVE THE NEW SIGGY KIM!!!!!


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Thanks Lisa, I do too!!!! Ciarra is SO talented!!!!!


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## Brodysmom

voodewlady said:


> Where are you buying them? I found 3 places close that sell it. 2 in Wichita and 1 in Andover. Where do you find the B1G1 coupon? I saw on the NV website that they have a trial size bag for $4.99. Have you seen this by chance? That would be a great way for me to try these out before committing to a full size bag. Also, since Paige is so little, do you think she would eat a whole medallion or maybe just 1/2? I will keep her on the Wellness Puppy too since I bought a bag already. Give her a bit of variety. I just hope she likes it all. :munky2:


Erin, all you have to do is go here:

http://www.naturesvariety.com/tryit/register/form

Put in your email and they will send you a coupon for buy one, get one bag free. 

I used the place in Andover, Johns Animal World, but there's a distributor on the west side too, I believe. 

I would just put Paige on 1/2 a medallion. That and the Wellness puppy should get her off to a great start! 

Brodysmom


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

We tried with the chicken medallion again tonight, still a NO! He even got angry and bared his teeth with hubby was trying bits on his finger.... the cats said no too. The girls wolfed it down... LOL We are just refunding it tomorrow, we will cook our own food as soon as I get more info from the vet. It might not be raw, but it will be all organic with no preservatives and processed crap in it. We tried, but Bailey hasn't budged!


----------



## voodewlady

Brodysmom said:


> Erin, all you have to do is go here:
> 
> http://www.naturesvariety.com/tryit/register/form
> 
> Put in your email and they will send you a coupon for buy one, get one bag free.
> 
> I used the place in Andover, Johns Animal World, but there's a distributor on the west side too, I believe.
> 
> I would just put Paige on 1/2 a medallion. That and the Wellness puppy should get her off to a great start!
> 
> Brodysmom




Thanks Tracy you rock! eacewink:


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## Zethsmommy

Oh Bailey is being a stinker for sure. I wouldn't give up yet. Keep doing the hand feeding with the raw chicken as well as give him what he will eat on his own. I'm sure in time he'll get the hang of eating raw on his own once he matures a bit more. 

Zeth will only eat raw at this point. He's also given up on eating treats such as his pupcorns and Carvers. I guess his taste buds have changed.
I did some research and found 100% dehydrated meat treats at PetSmart. His new treats which he absolutely loves and will eat are Made by Vitalife. They come in all flavors such as Duck, Rabbit, Lamb, Chicken and Beef. I can fold the treats in half and they fit perfectly into his new Kong toy which came in the mail the other day.


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## rcj1095

Zethsmommy said:


> Oh Bailey is being a stinker for sure. I wouldn't give up yet. Keep doing the hand feeding with the raw chicken as well as give him what he will eat on his own. I'm sure in time he'll get the hang of eating raw on his own once he matures a bit more.
> 
> Zeth will only eat raw at this point. He's also given up on eating treats such as his pupcorns and Carvers. I guess his taste buds have changed.
> I did some research and found 100% dehydrated meat treats at PetSmart. His new treats which he absolutely loves and will eat are Made by Vitalife. They come in all flavors such as Duck, Rabbit, Lamb, Chicken and Beef. I can fold the treats in half and they fit perfectly into his new Kong toy which came in the mail the other day.


Mine love the vitalife chicken chips. It's their little treat and it's small enough for the littles. I just ran out so I'll be needing to collect another bag. 

Tracy, you crack me up with Brody. He really is a challenge for you, isn't he? I just had to laugh when you were telling Lisa he sits on your lap to eat. The things we do...

OKay, Lily still won't touch the beef NV but she happily now laps up the chicken along with the rest of them. I have to run out today so I'm gonna try to find me some hens...:foxes15: Lisa, I'm inspired by your success.


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

We might have had a little break through yesterday.... Rob made steaks on the grill and we like them medium rare, ya know, brown outside and mooing in the middle!  Well, there was a piece that was really squishy pink, I gave that to Bailey... at first he was smelling it for a bit, then put it in his mouth. He spit it out a couple times, and walked away from it. But, he couldn't keep his eyes away from it, he went back to it and then finally ate it! I know it wasn't "raw" in the sense, but it was a start! Can we feed him steak, or is it too high in fat etc? 

Also, I am not understanding this bone thing. Why is it they need the bone?


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## Brodysmom

The prey model diet is 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ, 5% of the organs must be liver. This is "nature's" perfect carnivore meal as it is what an animal would be made up of that a wild dog would eat. Like a rabbit, squirrel, etc. It has the perfect proportion of vitamins, minerals, etc. to keep a dog healthy. It is important to keep the calcium/phosphorus ratio correct in a dogs diet and with this ratio - everything is where it should be. If, for example, you wanted to home cook a meal... you would really need to consult a canine nutritionist to get the proportions right, add supplements and vitamins, etc. If you do raw - everything is already there and you don't have to add anything. NO carbohydrates, no veggies, fruits, etc. All they need is the meat/bones/organs.

Also, the bone helps to regulate their stool. If all you fed was muscle meats, you'd get loose stools. It wouldn't be balanced. You need that raw meaty bone in the diet! 

I have a little success for this morning... yesterday Brody was a poop and didn't eat much at all. So I didn't give in and give him a bunch of treats (like I would have at one time because I felt bad he didn't eat.). Well this morning he was hungry and he ate about an ounce of raw steak cut in little pieces! Without me hand feeding him! And without sitting on my lap! He just ate it like a NORMAL dog would. WOW!!!! I hope that continues!! ha! He will get half of a cornish hen breast with the bone in it for his dinner tonight. 

Brodysmom


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Thanks for explaining that. Good job Brody, so then steak is a good thing! I'll give more to Bailey later today. I am going to try a hen for him, we love cornish hens around here!

So when giving chicken or hen, you just give them the thing with all of the bones in it? Do I have to grind them or anything? Rob is very worried they will choke. Kahlua doesn't always chew her food, she reminds me of a seagull sometimes... LOL


----------



## Brodysmom

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> Thanks for explaining that. Good job Brody, so then steak is a good thing! I'll give more to Bailey later today. I am going to try a hen for him, we love cornish hens around here!
> 
> So when giving chicken or hen, you just give them the thing with all of the bones in it? Do I have to grind them or anything? Rob is very worried they will choke. Kahlua doesn't always chew her food, she reminds me of a seagull sometimes... LOL


Yes, the steak is OK but remember to TAKE IT SLOW and don't get over eager! Slow and steady wins the course with this raw feeding. If you start introducing too many different meats, he might get diarrhea. You want to keep everything really simple for the first two weeks. Don't worry too much about the organs, etc. now. Just try raw meaty bones. If you see a loose stool, add more bone! If he seems constipated and strains to go - add more meat. Simple. The easiest way is just to do cut up chicken or cornish hens. The bone/meat ratio is good. Do you ever hold a bully stick for Bailey to chew on? You can start out like I did and just put a chicken leg in your fist and let him eat on it that way. It keeps him from gulping it down if he likes it alot. If he isn't interested at all, you can shred some of the meat on the bone so it's kind of hanging off. That might entice him to eat. 

For kahlua who inhales her food, you want to give LARGER pieces that she can't just swallow whole. Like give her a chicken breast with the bone attached or a chicken back. Supervise to make sure she's not eating too fast. If she's just swallowing it, then make sure it's a large piece she has to work on. 

And remember, you don't have to do this all at once. Just give it a try and don't get discouraged! 

brodysmom


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> Thanks for explaining that. Good job Brody, so then steak is a good thing! I'll give more to Bailey later today. I am going to try a hen for him, we love cornish hens around here!
> 
> So when giving chicken or hen, you just give them the thing with all of the bones in it? Do I have to grind them or anything? Rob is very worried they will choke. Kahlua doesn't always chew her food, she reminds me of a seagull sometimes... LOL


Kim, I was worried about my chi's choking as well, but not once did they choke or gag on a bone. Their little mouths seemed to know exactly how to handle that piece of meaty chicken bone. 
I guess their wild instincts kicked in!Lol! 
Even Lola, who nearly swallowed her food in whole pieces, had no problem, and didn't choke or gag. I have since made sure her pieces are bigger. I want her to have to work on it, and really crunch those bones so that her teeth get some good natural cleaning.
Goodluck!



rcj1095 said:


> Mine love the vitalife chicken chips. It's their little treat and it's small enough for the littles. I just ran out so I'll be needing to collect another bag.
> 
> Tracy, you crack me up with Brody. He really is a challenge for you, isn't he? I just had to laugh when you were telling Lisa he sits on your lap to eat. The things we do...
> 
> OKay, Lily still won't touch the beef NV but she happily now laps up the chicken along with the rest of them. I have to run out today so I'm gonna try to find me some hens...:foxes15: Lisa, I'm inspired by your success.


Robin-
Thank you for your kind words... You, Tracy, and Kelly are MY inspirations! You all got me interested in the raw feeding, and were there to help me along the way. I am in now way yet as knowledgeable as Kelly and Tracy, but I hoped to get there soon! I have been doing a lot of Internet reading, and it is really quite fascinating. 

I can't wait until you try the hens! I wish you great success!!! 



Brodysmom said:


> The prey model diet is 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ, 5% of the organs must be liver. This is "nature's" perfect carnivore meal as it is what an animal would be made up of that a wild dog would eat. Like a rabbit, squirrel, etc. It has the perfect proportion of vitamins, minerals, etc. to keep a dog healthy. It is important to keep the calcium/phosphorus ratio correct in a dogs diet and with this ratio - everything is where it should be. If, for example, you wanted to home cook a meal... you would really need to consult a canine nutritionist to get the proportions right, add supplements and vitamins, etc. If you do raw - everything is already there and you don't have to add anything. NO carbohydrates, no veggies, fruits, etc. All they need is the meat/bones/organs.
> 
> Also, the bone helps to regulate their stool. If all you fed was muscle meats, you'd get loose stools. It wouldn't be balanced. You need that raw meaty bone in the diet!
> 
> I have a little success for this morning... yesterday Brody was a poop and didn't eat much at all. So I didn't give in and give him a bunch of treats (like I would have at one time because I felt bad he didn't eat.). Well this morning he was hungry and he ate about an ounce of raw steak cut in little pieces! Without me hand feeding him! And without sitting on my lap! He just ate it like a NORMAL dog would. WOW!!!! I hope that continues!! ha! He will get half of a cornish hen breast with the bone in it for his dinner tonight.
> 
> Brodysmom


Thank you Tracy! You answered a question for me in your reply to Kim. 
I was wondering if I am supposed to be giving them vitamins. I read that in the BARF diet some people do.
I know that I am doing the prey model, not the BARF, but wasn't sure. I am still going to continue and give the Nupro. I just love that stuff!

Yea Brody!!! I am so glad he enjoyed it, and he ate like a "normal dog" Lol. He cracks me up Tracy!


So yesterday the chi's ate only their raw hens. Some for breakfast and some for dinner. They did amazing! Lola did better because I gave her a bigger piece. She still eats it to fast though, but I think as days go by she will slow down. I think she is just overly excited and gobbles it up. She was like that with the NV medallions, but she slowed once the "newness" wore off.
This morning I gave them the NV medallions. They aren't getting any organ or liver, so I thought it would be a good idea to give them the NV since it has some in there.
Dinner will be hen!

Okay, I have a little problem. Where in the heck can I find chicken organs to feed them? My store doesn't have it.
The store sells a package of chicken hearts and gizzards, some chicken liver, but I can't find any organs???

Also, if I feed them the hearts and gizzards, is that the same as feeding them, say... a chicken wing, minus the bone? Does that fall under the 80% meat they should have?

I am sooo sorry for such a looong post!! 
Please forgive me


----------



## Brodysmom

Where in the heck can I find chicken organs to feed them? My store doesn't have it.

You can just use chicken liver if that's all you can find. Have you checked Walmart? Mine had beef kidneys! They are in a BIG package so it's probably a years supply but I'm going to buy it next time I go. You can also go to an ethnic market (chinese or mexican) and see what organs they have there. For our little guys, 10% of their diet being organs is really just a tiny bit. Like a couple bites, if that. 

Also, if I feed them the hearts and gizzards, is that the same as feeding them, say... a chicken wing, minus the bone? Does that fall under the 80% meat they should have?

Yes, hearts and gizzards are considered muscle meats. So that could be a meat meal, minus the bone. 

I agree with continuing the Nupro! I'm doing that too. There's a ton of vitamins, etc. in that so I figure it will take care of any deficiencies there might be! 

You are doing so good Lisa! I am SOOOOOOOOOOO impressed!!!!

Brodysmom


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

What about bones splintering, like all the warnings about dogs getting bones from the trash etc. Rob is very worried about that and wants me to ask. lol


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Brodysmom said:


> Where in the heck can I find chicken organs to feed them? My store doesn't have it.
> 
> You can just use chicken liver if that's all you can find. Have you checked Walmart? Mine had beef kidneys! They are in a BIG package so it's probably a years supply but I'm going to buy it next time I go. You can also go to an ethnic market (chinese or mexican) and see what organs they have there. For our little guys, 10% of their diet being organs is really just a tiny bit. Like a couple bites, if that.
> 
> Also, if I feed them the hearts and gizzards, is that the same as feeding them, say... a chicken wing, minus the bone? Does that fall under the 80% meat they should have?
> 
> Yes, hearts and gizzards are considered muscle meats. So that could be a meat meal, minus the bone.
> 
> I agree with continuing the Nupro! I'm doing that too. There's a ton of vitamins, etc. in that so I figure it will take care of any deficiencies there might be!
> 
> You are doing so good Lisa! I am SOOOOOOOOOOO impressed!!!!
> 
> Brodysmom


Thank you so much Tracy! That means a lot to me.

Okay, we have a Mexican and Asian grocery store close to me. I will have to check it out.

I think once I am comfortable to move on to the next meat type, I will try Rabbit. 
They eat the NV rabbit kibble so I think they will be able to tolerate it easily. Can they eat rabbit bone? 
What about beef? What bones are they able to eat? I read somewhere that beef bones are harder, so to be careful with them. Which beef bones are okay?

Tracy you must be one of the lucky ones that have a "Super Walmart". I have three Walmarts all close by me, and none of them have a "real" grocery section. The Walmarts by me sell some stuff, but no produce or fresh meats.

Thanks again girl! You are the best!!!!:coolwink:


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> What about bones splintering, like all the warnings about dogs getting bones from the trash etc. Rob is very worried about that and wants me to ask. lol


Kim-

The bones that splinter are cooked bones. Raw bones don't splinter.


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Thanks!!! Just making sure!


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Bailey ACTUALLY ate raw tonight!!!! Rob gave him a raw meat ball, he mowed it, Kahlua too!!!! WOOO HOOOO!!!!! So, how long (and how many) can I feed him the meat balls? What is my next step? I am still really confused about all of this stuff... call me stupid. lol


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## Brodysmom

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> Bailey ACTUALLY ate raw tonight!!!! Rob gave him a raw meat ball, he mowed it, Kahlua too!!!! WOOO HOOOO!!!!! So, how long (and how many) can I feed him the meat balls? What is my next step? I am still really confused about all of this stuff... call me stupid. lol


Is the meat ball the NV medallion? Or did you make your own? If it's the NV medallion, then go to NV site and use their calculator and see how much they recommend feeding. I think for our boys size and age/activity it is 2 medallions a day if that's all they are eating.  I'd do one in the morning and one in the evening. Keep a close eye on weight and cut back if he starts to look a little pudgy or give a little more if he's looking lean.  

YAY Bailey!!!

p.s. Brody ate his cornish hen 1/2 a chicken breast with bone tonight for dinner with minimal coaching from me. Woo Woo! I still had to hold it for him, but he crunched the bone like a champ.

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Oh Tracy that is great!
Good boy Brody!!!!

Don't you just love the crunching sound? Lol!
I think Brody is coming around...Yea!


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

It was a home made meatball... he seriously doesn't like the medallions.  It was just one meatball tonight, but we will give him some later on when we are back from my grandpa's.


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## rcj1095

You guys, this is awesome. Bailey is actually eating something raw??? Brody is eating not on your lap or out of your hand??? We are having major success, are we not? I'm just tickled pink over all of it. Lisa, yours are coming along beautifully. No hens over here yet but I'll find one tomorrow. Mine are still loving the NV but I wanna try some other stuff. I still do the nupro girls. I'm not ready to give that up and I still have my bag of kibble. Still using my coupons and it's my total security blankie to have the kibble and medallions. Seriously Tracy, I agree with Lisa 100 percent. If it weren't for you and Kelly, we couldn't do this. Thank you so much for your continued patience. I just love that we can all go through this together!!!:coolwink:


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## Zethsmommy

I'm so happy to hear all the good news about eating raw. Yeah for Bailey!!!!!!! Maybe now you can hide a piece of raw chicken in that meatball. This is the week I'm going to try Zeth on little bits of beef. I'm defrosting a piece of steak for later tonight. I'm also trying to reduce him to eating one time a day since I'll be going back to work full time later in August. We've been trying to eat our big meal first thing in the morning and little tidbits of 100% dried meat in the evenings and it seems to be working just fine for him.

I found fresh Tripe the other day at an ethnic market. It looked totally gross. 
What on earth is Tripe anyway?......It looked like somethings brain. I didn't buy it but I've read it's good for the dogs who are raw fed.


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## Brodysmom

Zethsmommy said:


> I found fresh Tripe the other day at an ethnic market. It looked totally gross.
> What on earth is Tripe anyway?......It looked like somethings brain. I didn't buy it but I've read it's good for the dogs who are raw fed.


Zethsmommy, that is a great tip about hiding a piece of raw chicken in Bailey's meatball! Thanks for thinking of that. 

Tripe is cow stomach. You want to get what's called "green tripe" since it hasn't been bleached and sterilized. Otherwise it's just plain tripe and is white and clean. If you can, you want green tripe which hasn't been processed. I'm not sure that people eat that though. It smells TERRIBLE!!!! But it is full of all kinds of enzymes and even fatty acides and probioitics that are GREAT for dogs. I haven't found green tripe anywhere around here and didn't want to mail order it frozen and pay for all that expensive shipping, so I found it dehydrated. 100% green tripe in dog chews! 

Gave one to Brody and he loved it!! No stomach upset either. I love it that he's getting something super healthy, even though it really SMELLS BAD!! 

Here's the link to that treat post and where I got it, etc....

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?t=42634

NObody has commented, which I think is sooooo funny! Everyone must think EWWWWWWWWW GROSS!! ha ha!

Brodysmom


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## Zethsmommy

Thanks for the info on the Tripe. The stuff I saw at the ethnic market was this greenish/pink gooey stuff. It was just labeled Tripe and the rest of label was in a foreign language to me. I couldn't even imagine eating it. The whole store smelled which kinda turned me off. I couldn't quite put my finger on the smell though. It was a weirdish spicey meaty aroma. In fact I didn't stay long cause I stuck out in the market like a soar thumb being the only blond in there. I felt like all eyes where on me. I didn't even check the price out. I did see a sign for goat and something that looked like baby birds in jars. (I know the Phillipino guys that my husband work's with eat them all the time but can't remember the name of them) I think it's something like Bileek??? The first time I saw them eat it I lost my marbles big time. 
It's not a store I would wish to frequent very often but maybe I can get my husbands co-workers to buy some fresh tripe for me.
Wow the things we do for our babies.


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## Zethsmommy

Oh I did see your post on the Tripe treats. That's a little out of my budget at the moment since all my money is going towards the new cat we adopted Sunday. I just spent $300 in the last two days on her and I was only going to the store for Cockateil and Parakeet food and treats for the dogs.


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## Brodysmom

Yeah, it is kind of pricey. But it was cheaper for me than having tripe shipped in. They don't NEED it, it's just a special treat. And supposedly dogs go crazy for it.  That proved true with Brody who is MR PICKY. 

I can't believe those birds in a jar. SICK!! I wouldn't be able to handle seeing that. Yuck.

brodysmom


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## carrera

I found those treats here http://www.sitstay.com/dog/supplies/servlet/product_10001_10001_39962_-1_PetKind+Tripe+Treats___ for a couple dollars less, just thought I would share  - I think with shipping at both sites it is still less


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## Brodysmom

carrera said:


> I found those treats here http://www.sitstay.com/dog/supplies/servlet/product_10001_10001_39962_-1_PetKind+Tripe+Treats___ for a couple dollars less, just though I would share  - I think with shipping at both sites it is still less


Great find Carrera! I will bookmark that site. Thanks.

Brodysmom


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## carrera

Carrera and Chicco had chicken thigh today!!! heres the link to my post-
http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?p=532881#post532881


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Kelly, Tracy or any raw feeders-

I have read that some raw feeders give their dogs Fish body oil (FBO). It has to be cold water marine fish- derived.

Is that something I should be giving? Do any of you give fish body oil?

I also read that some raw fish needs to be frozen for x amount of hours before we can safely feed it. Does anyone know anything about that?


Good job Carrera and Chicco! Yummy... isn't it?


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## Brodysmom

Lisa - I have read about adding fish oil supplement too. I think that's a good idea if you are doing 100% raw. I feel like the nupro takes care of the extra vitamins/minerals for me, although fish oil is more "natural" than flax seed for skin and coat health. You could certainly try it!

I read that fish should be frozen for 3 days to kill parasites. That would be wild caught fish. I think if you bought the fish in the store it would be fine to feed straight from the store. If it's good enough for people to eat, it should be fine for our dogs, right?

Good job guys!!! I'm so excited about this way of feeding. 

Brodysmom


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Brodysmom said:


> Lisa - I have read about adding fish oil supplement too. I think that's a good idea if you are doing 100% raw. I feel like the nupro takes care of the extra vitamins/minerals for me, although fish oil is more "natural" than flax seed for skin and coat health. You could certainly try it!
> 
> I read that fish should be frozen for 3 days to kill parasites. That would be wild caught fish. I think if you bought the fish in the store it would be fine to feed straight from the store. If it's good enough for people to eat, it should be fine for our dogs, right?
> 
> Good job guys!!! I'm so excited about this way of feeding.
> 
> Brodysmom


Thanks for the info Tracy. OOPS!I meant x amount of days not hours.Lol!
My goal *is *100% raw!!
Yesterday and today all they have had was raw, so the fish oil every once in a while, I think will do them some good. Especially for Lila, since she doesn't get any Nupro.


----------



## Brodysmom

Lisa you are so awesome!!! My goal is 100% raw too. I"m getting there. Brody hasn't had any kibble for several days. I still leave it out, but he doesn't eat it. He waits for the good stuff.  Isn't it amazing?! I mean really!!! Who thought we'd be doing this.

I'd say there's no harm at all in adding fish oil. Keep us posted!! Did you read Carrera's post... she fed her two chicken thighs!! Wow!!!! I am so impressed with all of you. 

Brodysmom


----------



## Muzby

We give fish oils mixed in ground meat. Fishmeatballs. 

We use human grade fish oils, but not salmon.. i think it's a mixture of sardines/etc. 

We also feed fish! LOVE fish here. Shouldn't be fed often to cats, but dogs can get it more often. Whole smelt/sardines/mackeral/etc. Betty is such a little princess she insists on only fillets - with skin, thankyouverymuch.


----------



## rcj1095

I am also impressed with all of this. I'm off tomorrow so I'm really gonna try to get my buns to the store and see what I can come up with! I'm so happy Brody's eating and Lisa, your success is just INSPIRING!!! I love hearing everybody else's success stories! I couldn't do it without all of this "backup". 

Kelly must be so thrilled!!!


----------



## Muzby

I am thrilled! Tracy is now my right hand lady.  I don't feel the need to jump into threads and ramble on about raw, because Tracy has it all covered. SO PROUD!


----------



## TLI

I think I'll just stick with the medallions. Is that good? I won't be feeding anything else, kibble or nothing since mine have allergies. Is there anything I need to know before starting this? Do I start the medallions cold turkey? Will there be lose stools?


----------



## rcj1095

TLI said:


> I think I'll just stick with the medallions. Is that good? I won't be feeding anything else, kibble or nothing since mine have allergies. Is there anything I need to know before starting this? Do I start the medallions cold turkey? Will there be lose stools?


Maybe a shred looser than usual but not that noticeable. Mine love it. I split their daily intake into two meals and they adore it. They don't get near as excited about the kibble now. I've used chicken and beef. Lily hates the beef and it took her about two weeks to like the chicken. Now, she laps it up as fast as the other ones do. Good luck and use this thread! It's a constant "support system"!!! I have the lamb in my freezer downstairs and will be trying that also. Keep us posted, please!!! It's so easy it's scary!


----------



## Brodysmom

Teresa - I would just start cold turkey since you are dealing with a specific problem and not just wanting to try a different food. Just feed according to the calculator. Since yours are all so itty bitty, probably one medallion a day to start. You can split it into two meals if you want. Just give half in the morning and half in the evening. I recommend room temp, although you can feed it straight from the fridge if you want. Just half it and smash with a fork on a plate and they should eat it.

Let us know how it goes! I'm so anxious to hear!!

Usually there's not loose stools but just keep an eye out. I haven't heard of that being a problem. Brody didn't have any trouble at all.

Keep us posted!

Brodysmom


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Teresa - I would just start cold turkey since you are dealing with a specific problem and not just wanting to try a different food. Just feed according to the calculator. Since yours are all so itty bitty, probably one medallion a day to start. You can split it into two meals if you want. Just give half in the morning and half in the evening. I recommend room temp, although you can feed it straight from the fridge if you want. Just half it and smash with a fork on a plate and they should eat it.
> 
> Let us know how it goes! I'm so anxious to hear!!
> 
> Usually there's not loose stools but just keep an eye out. I haven't heard of that being a problem. Brody didn't have any trouble at all.
> 
> Keep us posted!
> 
> Brodysmom


Yea, for two weeks, mine preferred it room temp. but now they eat it cold, straight out of the refrig. Chloe is the only one who had a bit of a loose stool but she's such a pig, I never know if she got into something else. LOL. The other three had great stools. Still do. 

Tracy, Andrew was eating Cheetos in bed the other night. This morning Chloe came running up to me and had orange all over her face. Guess what he must have dropped? Guess what she must have found? She's something else, that Chloe!!! LOL. Mind you, they are never unsupervised. So in the time she got off the bed to go to the kitchen to go out, she found it!!! My little piglet.


----------



## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> Tracy, Andrew was eating Cheetos in bed the other night. This morning Chloe came running up to me and had orange all over her face. Guess what he must have dropped? Guess what she must have found? She's something else, that Chloe!!! LOL. Mind you, they are never unsupervised. So in the time she got off the bed to go to the kitchen to go out, she found it!!! My little piglet.


Robin, that cracks me up!!!! How funny that she ate a cheeto. I bet Brody wouldn't, but give him a tomato and he'll snarf it down. Or a spider. He likes those too. LOL! 

Brodysmom


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Robin, that cracks me up!!!! How funny that she ate a cheeto. I bet Brody wouldn't, but give him a tomato and he'll snarf it down. Or a spider. He likes those too. LOL!
> 
> Brodysmom


Yea, Brody will eat anything that will worry you to death and Chloe likes carbs, just like her Momma!!! They know I don't drop any food or give them any table food but they sure do all crowd around Andrew when he eats. He's always dropping, spilling or something. He spilled blue cheese dressing on his t-shirt after eating wings the other night and Chloe and Lily were fighting over who could lick his shirt!!! God bless them.


----------



## carrera

On the fish oil-I have given Carrera and Chicco pretty much one a day, even when I give them NUPRO, they love their fish oil. I highly recommend it, it is great for their skin!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Today for dinner I decided to try some Chicken hearts and gizzards, and a little liver. They loved it! It took Lila longer to eat her dinner though. The gizzards were pretty tough. What is a gizzard anyways? I bought them some sirloin steak too. Yummy! 

I cut up, and separated a bunch of meals, labeled it, and put them in the freezer. 
They have some chicken meaty bones, chicken meat, gizzards, hearts, liver, and some steak. I still need to find some organs though. 
Every meal is ready to go. Just defrost and serve! 

Am I missing anything? 

I wanted to try rabbit next, but that means a trip to the ethnic stores, so figured I will wait so I can drag along my husband.

Also I decided to take Kelly's advice and not try and serve an 80%/10%/10% daily (it was just to hard), but instead do a meaty bone 
3x per week, an organ meal 1x per week (alternate liver,kidney,lung,etc..), and just meat the rest of the days. 
Waaaayyy easier! 
Thanks Kelly!


----------



## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Today for dinner I decided to try some Chicken hearts and gizzards, and a little liver. They loved it! It took Lila longer to eat her dinner though. The gizzards were pretty tough. What is a gizzard anyways? I bought them some sirloin steak too. Yummy!
> 
> I cut up, and separated a bunch of meals, labeled it, and put them in the freezer.
> They have some chicken meaty bones, chicken meat, gizzards, hearts, liver, and some steak. I still need to find some organs though.
> Every meal is ready to go. Just defrost and serve!
> 
> Am I missing anything?
> 
> I wanted to try rabbit next, but that means a trip to the ethnic stores, so figured I will wait so I can drag along my husband.
> 
> Also I decided to take Kelly's advice and not try and serve an 80%/10%/10% daily (it was just to hard), but instead do a meaty bone
> 3x per week, an organ meal 1x per week (alternate liver,kidney,lung,etc..), and just meat the rest of the days.
> Waaaayyy easier!
> Thanks Kelly!


Okay, a meaty bone 3x week per dog, and organ meal 1x week (tell me those again) and just any kind of meat the rest of the week? This sounds easier than what I was trying to figure out. I wanna make sure I have this right when I actually start this. Going to my butcher's today or tomorrow to see what he has!!! Lisa, have I mentioned how friggin proud of you I am??? You took this and ran with it. You are awesome girl. You and Tracy are kicking butt on this. I need to catch up now and do it also!


----------



## Muzby

Yes, you do a meat bone 3x week (always the same day as an organ meal!), you do 1 organ meal a week (you need to alternate between a liver and the "other organs" ex week1 liver, week 2 kidney, week 3 liver, week 4 lung, week 5 liver, week 6 spleen).

Easy-peasy! Trying to get everything in ONE DAY with dogs as small as chi's will make your brain explode. 

Also, if you follow that meal plan, they are getting MORE than 10% bone- but I find Betty needs that more bone. So as I've said before:

Raw is not an exact science.. each dog is different and has different needs - don't be afraid to tweak things until you find what is RIGHT for your pet!


----------



## carrera

Ok, so gizzards are counting as the 80% meat?
and then liver can be my 10% organ? Liver has been the only organ I have been able to find so far. Muzby can you tell me about how much a serving size would be of the organ-1/2 cup? Carrera is 8 lbs. and Chicco is 4ish if that helps


----------



## Muzby

A few post back, I posted a link to calculate the percentage of what they need to eat per week. You can use that! 

We honestly don't measure at this point. I give roughly 1oz by look and feel, not actual measurements.


----------



## Muzby

Linky again: http://artsiekat.com/forumpics/RawCatDiet.xls


----------



## carrera

Thanks for the link, I can't open it on my home computer though for some reason, it says I do not have the program. I will try it out on my mom's computer next time I am over there.


----------



## Zethsmommy

So glad to see everyone's success with the raw. Zeth and Sandy have been on raw for over a month now and doing great. I introduced raw pork shoulder ribs (boneless) last night. OMG.......We had raw zoomies for over an hour. Zeth was doing the 90mph dash through the house with a squeeky toy none stop. It was hilarious. Sandy who has never touched a toy in her life was even in on the act. Her problem is it's like having a Bull in china shop when she starts up. They pretty much trashed the house in that time. Ever pillow on the sofa was on the floor, all the toys where scattered all over the place. We tried to stop Zeth a few times but all he wanted to do was squeak his toys and have us chase him. Zeth even managed to get the cat involved. Can't wait to introduce the new cat Lilly to this whole ordeal. (She's temporarily in another part of the house being nursed back to health)

Just bought a bottle of fish oil capsules as well. Will try that out on the dogs tomorrow. Both Zeth and Sandy already eat fish in small bits because I love fish. 
This morning I gave them a bit more of the pork with Chicken & thigh bone. The Zoomies happened immediately after eating this morning so we went for a long walk but I had to carry Zeth the last leg of the walk. He was misbehaving. He's figured out that if I say it's time to go home and turn around towards home, he slips out backward from his harness. 
We are on the 6th harness and he's knows just how to get out of them. 
What causes these Raw Zoomies?????? It's so funny to watch. It's like I was feeding them somesort of energy pill.


----------



## TLI

YAY! The pups had the medallions for breakfast, and everyone ate every bite. They did have to sniff it out for a minute or two, and even roll on it, but once they got a taste, it was gone like lightning. :lol: I have some pics to share, gotta upload them real quick. We used Lamb, and I also got Venison. I didn't try Jade with it yet.


----------



## rcj1095

TLI said:


> YAY! The pups had the medallions for breakfast, and everyone ate every bite. They did have to sniff it out for a minute or two, and even roll on it, but once they got a taste, it was gone like lightning. :lol: I have some pics to share, gotta upload them real quick. We used Lamb, and I also got Venison. I didn't try Jade with it yet.


Yea, you joined our raw club!!! Isn't it easy? Jade could still be supplemented with kibble also. You don't have to just do one!!! I'm so excited for you Teresa!!!


----------



## TLI

Robin, the way I'm doing it now is definitely easy. I'm cheating and only using the medallions. :lol: But hey, if it works, I'm not gonna complain. 

Here is our first experience with raw.


----------



## rcj1095

I AM SO IN LOVE!!! Look at Gia's little tongue. I use saucers the exact size until I get their personalized bowls from Kim. It looks like they did well. I'm doing almost all medallions right now T. It's crazy here this summer with the kids and all their friends over and I just haven't focused on the homeade "raw" yet. I will dabble in it more when they go back to school and I have more time but I am thrilled with the medallions and with the coupon, you can't beat the price. I can be so lazy sometimes and it's just sooooo easy! Great pics. I'm so glad you joined the team! Keep us posted as to when and if you notice a difference with Lexie. Within a week or two, Coco stopped chewing her feet. The patch of hair missing on her side, however, is not growing back in. Think it's permanent???


----------



## TLI

rcj1095 said:


> Maybe a shred looser than usual but not that noticeable. Mine love it. I split their daily intake into two meals and they adore it. They don't get near as excited about the kibble now. I've used chicken and beef. Lily hates the beef and it took her about two weeks to like the chicken. Now, she laps it up as fast as the other ones do. Good luck and use this thread! It's a constant "support system"!!! I have the lamb in my freezer downstairs and will be trying that also. Keep us posted, please!!! It's so easy it's scary!


Okie dokie. I'm hoping it doesn't give them loose stools, but guess we'll see. So far so good.  I'm not going to use kibble at all now. They hate that stuff anyway. They rarely ever eat any of it. If they keep eating as good as they did this morning, I'll be as happy as a lark. 



Brodysmom said:


> Teresa - I would just start cold turkey since you are dealing with a specific problem and not just wanting to try a different food. Just feed according to the calculator. Since yours are all so itty bitty, probably one medallion a day to start. You can split it into two meals if you want. Just give half in the morning and half in the evening. I recommend room temp, although you can feed it straight from the fridge if you want. Just half it and smash with a fork on a plate and they should eat it.
> 
> Let us know how it goes! I'm so anxious to hear!!
> 
> Usually there's not loose stools but just keep an eye out. I haven't heard of that being a problem. Brody didn't have any trouble at all.
> 
> Keep us posted!
> 
> Brodysmom


Thanks Tracy. I am going completely medallions from here on out. I probably won't go with bones and all that stuff for awhile. Maybe at some point we can start doing it that way, but the medallions are so easy. 

I was kinda shocked when I put in their weight and seen that they would only need 1 medallion daily. But that's even better because with 4 it could get expensive. :lol: I went ahead and fed them all 1 a piece this morning trying it out, but I could tell they were getting full. I may divide 1 more between the 3 this evening just so they don't have such an empty stomach in the morning. 

The medallion was still kinda cold when I fed them this morning, but they didn't seem to mind. I need to start sitting them out a bit before I feed them, but we came straight home with them this morning so I could try them out for breakfast. It feels so good to be feeding them something natural that is good for them. You just never know with all of those kibbles and cans. So many recalls just scare the crap out of me.

I appreciate your help Tracy, thanks so much!



rcj1095 said:


> I AM SO IN LOVE!!! Look at Gia's little tongue. I use saucers the exact size until I get their personalized bowls from Kim. It looks like they did well. I'm doing almost all medallions right now T. It's crazy here this summer with the kids and all their friends over and I just haven't focused on the homemade "raw" yet. I will dabble in it more when they go back to school and I have more time but I am thrilled with the medallions and with the coupon, you can't beat the price. I can be so lazy sometimes and it's just sooooo easy! Great pics. I'm so glad you joined the team! Keep us posted as to when and if you notice a difference with Lexie. Within a week or two, Coco stopped chewing her feet. The patch of hair missing on her side, however, is not growing back in. Think it's permanent???


Gia is so funny when she is eating. She gets that google look in her eyes. :lol: I just used cup saucers for now. Bowls are to deep, and this makes it easier for them to get too. I use bowls for water, but they prefer saucers for food. I can't wait to get my dishes from Kim! I am very excited to see them. 

I totally know what you mean about the Summer. It's been crazy here too. Not sure that it will settle much when school starts back because M has so much going on and not old enough to drive yet. 

I'm not sure i can use the coupon again. It says for use once a year. The family that owns the store built my house so they know me well. :lol: Oh well, I'm going to keep using it anyway. They eat so little it isn't that expensive, and so much better for them.

I think Coco's hair patch will start growing back soon. It just takes awhile.  I'll keep you posted on how long it takes Lexie's to grow back and if her allergy symptoms disappear. 

I'm so excited about this! Thanks for your help Robin!


----------



## rcj1095

TLI said:


> Okie dokie. I'm hoping it doesn't give them loose stools, but guess we'll see. So far so good.  I'm not going to use kibble at all now. They hate that stuff anyway. They rarely ever eat any of it. If they keep eating as good as they did this morning, I'll be as happy as a lark.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Tracy. I am going completely medallions from here on out. I probably won't go with bones and all that stuff for awhile. Maybe at some point we can start doing it that way, but the medallions are so easy.
> 
> I was kinda shocked when I put in their weight and seen that they would only need 1 medallion daily. But that's even better because with 4 it could get expensive. :lol: I went ahead and fed them all 1 a piece this morning trying it out, but I could tell they were getting full. I may divide 1 more between the 3 this evening just so they don't have such an empty stomach in the morning.
> 
> The medallion was still kinda cold when I fed them this morning, but they didn't seem to mind. I need to start sitting them out a bit before I feed them, but we came straight home with them this morning so I could try them out for breakfast. It feels so good to be feeding them something natural that is good for them. You just never know with all of those kibbles and cans. So many recalls just scare the crap out of me.
> 
> I appreciate your help Tracy, thanks so much!
> 
> 
> 
> Gia is so funny when she is eating. She gets that google look in her eyes. :lol: I just used cup saucers for now. Bowls are to deep, and this makes it easier for them to get too. I use bowls for water, but they prefer saucers for food. I can't wait to get my dishes from Kim! I am very excited to see them.
> 
> I totally know what you mean about the Summer. It's been crazy here too. Not sure that it will settle much when school starts back because M has so much going on and not old enough to drive yet.
> 
> I'm not sure i can use the coupon again. It says for use once a year. The family that owns the store built my house so they know me well. :lol: Oh well, I'm going to keep using it anyway. They eat so little it isn't that expensive, and so much better for them.
> 
> I think Coco's hair patch will start growing back soon. It just takes awhile.  I'll keep you posted on how long it takes Lexie's to grow back and if her allergy symptoms disappear.
> 
> I'm so excited about this! Thanks for your help Robin!


Yea, I'm afraid the medallions don't seem enough either. I think they can just eat it faster. I use the coupon over and over cuz my Petsmart doesn't care but your situation is probably different!!! Can't wait to see how they do. The poops should actually get better. Chloe's was a little runny but she had gotten into something else (my little piggy). These kids keep us on our toes, don't they? Mine are begging me to go swimming right now and I'm trying to clean and get a couple things done. What are feeding little Jade???


----------



## TLI

rcj1095 said:


> Yea, I'm afraid the medallions don't seem enough either. I think they can just eat it faster. I use the coupon over and over cuz my Petsmart doesn't care but your situation is probably different!!! Can't wait to see how they do. The poops should actually get better. Chloe's was a little runny but she had gotten into something else (my little piggy). These kids keep us on our toes, don't they? Mine are begging me to go swimming right now and I'm trying to clean and get a couple things done. What are feeding little Jade???


The medallions will be plenty for mine. They aren't big eaters. They were getting full after just 1 a piece this morning. They may not even want to eat again this evening, but I'll make them eat a little even if I have to hand feed. My guys get sugar drops easy with their weight and size if they don't keep a full tummy. I've always been able to keep it at bay as long as I make sure they eat 2 meals a day, even if it's small. If not, they wake up with growling tummies, and that glazed look in their eyes, then I know we are on the edge of a sugar drop. But I think just the medallions twice a day will work great for us.

If they ate better we wouldn't have any trouble, but I keep telling them that, and they don't listen. :lol:

Our Petsmart doesn't carry it.  Maybe they will eventually. I only have 1 store here that does, and it's a 20 minute drive one way. But I have been going there for a long time because they carry the high premium foods, so it's no biggie. I just buy a months supply. 

Jade is on TOTW kibble, and Wellness Puppy. I had to start the canned with her after her sugar spell. She can't eat enough kibble to keep her going. That will resolve itself some as she ages and grows some. I am going to wait until she's about 9 months to start the raw with her. I just don't want to take any chances at all because at her size anything can take her down quick. So it's just a safety measure for now.


----------



## rcj1095

TLI said:


> The medallions will be plenty for mine. They aren't big eaters. They were getting full after just 1 a piece this morning. They may not even want to eat again this evening, but I'll make them eat a little even if I have to hand feed. My guys get sugar drops easy with their weight and size if they don't keep a full tummy. I've always been able to keep it at bay as long as I make sure they eat 2 meals a day, even if it's small. If not, they wake up with growling tummies, and that glazed look in their eyes, then I know we are on the edge of a sugar drop. But I think just the medallions twice a day will work great for us.
> 
> If they ate better we wouldn't have any trouble, but I keep telling them that, and they don't listen. :lol:
> 
> Our Petsmart doesn't carry it.  Maybe they will eventually. I only have 1 store here that does, and it's a 20 minute drive one way. But I have been going there for a long time because they carry the high premium foods, so it's no biggie. I just buy a months supply.
> 
> Jade is on TOTW kibble, and Wellness Puppy. I had to start the canned with her after her sugar spell. She can't eat enough kibble to keep her going. That will resolve itself some as she ages and grows some. I am going to wait until she's about 9 months to start the raw with her. I just don't want to take any chances at all because at her size anything can take her down quick. So it's just a safety measure for now.


Yep, you gotta be way careful with her. If it's not broken right now, don't fix it, ya know??? Keep us posted girl!!!


----------



## carrera

Ok so I stocked up today, I found 1.23 lbs. of chicken necks for $1, they were clearing them because they were approaching the sell by date. I also picked up chicken liver, as well as ground beef that I plan to seperate into individual servings. When I bought the chicken thighs I also bought chicken gizzards. 
So is my only source of organ the liver then? -Looks like I'll need to find another organ, whats an easy one to find? I saw hearts today but the were mixed with gizzards
For the first couple weeks I plan to do a meal plan to make sure I am covering all my bases, I have a feeling I will need to adjust Chiccos diets from Carreras, he tends to put weight on a lot easier then she does. 

I started asking around for freezer burnt stuff, I already have a bunch of livers lined up, woo hoo!

Thanks for all your help so far everyone, Monica


----------



## rcj1095

Way to go Monica, you are totally inspiring me!!! You really have a good grasp on this. The pups seem to love it too, huh? Hey, we still need to have our meet up. Maybe even September? I'm so excited for you!!! I just love this thread, I check it always!!!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

carrera said:


> Ok so I stocked up today, I found 1.23 lbs. of chicken necks for $1, they were clearing them because they were approaching the sell by date. I also picked up chicken liver, as well as ground beef that I plan to seperate into individual servings. When I bought the chicken thighs I also bought chicken gizzards.
> So is my only source of organ the liver then? -Looks like I'll need to find another organ, whats an easy one to find? I saw hearts today but the were mixed with gizzards
> For the first couple weeks I plan to do a meal plan to make sure I am covering all my bases, I have a feeling I will need to adjust Chiccos diets from Carreras, he tends to put weight on a lot easier then she does.
> 
> I started asking around for freezer burnt stuff, I already have a bunch of livers lined up, woo hoo!
> 
> Thanks for all your help so far everyone, Monica



Sounds like your like me and looking for some organs. I can't find any in my grocery store, so I will be going to the ethnic grocery stores where they have more of a variety.

I did see chicken necks at my store. Is that considered a meaty bone? 

Good luck and keep us posted on how Carrera and Chicco are doing !


----------



## TLI

Looks like I'm running into a problem. Gia has been coughing off and on all day and dry heaving. She has thrown up a few times. She almost acts like she has something stuck in her throat, but hasn't eaten anything other than the medallion. I know she hasn't picked up anything on the floor because I do a floor scan off and on all day to see that things aren't dropped that they can get ahold of. Lexie has also been acting like she's dry heaving. Wonder what it is? Chance did fine, and ate a piece of a medallion just a few minutes ago, but the girls wouldn't touch it????


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Hmmm. Did you notice any larger solid pieces in the medallion? 
Maye some hard bone that wasn't mashed up??
I'm not sure.
I hope it goes away. Have they drank any water yet?


----------



## rcj1095

TLI said:


> Looks like I'm running into a problem. Gia has been coughing off and on all day and dry heaving. She has thrown up a few times. She almost acts like she has something stuck in her throat, but hasn't eaten anything other than the medallion. I know she hasn't picked up anything on the floor because I do a floor scan off and on all day to see that things aren't dropped that they can get ahold of. Lexie has also been acting like she's dry heaving. Wonder what it is? Chance did fine, and ate a piece of a medallion just a few minutes ago, but the girls wouldn't touch it????


Okay, weird!!! I have no idea. I can't even render a guess!!! Mine do some occasional reverse sneezing but other than that, I don't know. This is the only change they've had, right???


----------



## TLI

I did see some bone pieces, but they all seemed to drop those from any bite they took. I picked up about 4 pieces of bone off the floor. They have all drank water since then, and I syringe forced water down Gia because she kept acting like she had something hung to the point it was distressing her. It seemed to help some. Maybe it is some bone that she has hung in her throat.


----------



## TLI

rcj1095 said:


> Okay, weird!!! I have no idea. I can't even render a guess!!! Mine do some occasional reverse sneezing but other than that, I don't know. This is the only change they've had, right???


I'm absolutely positive that it isn't reverse sneezing. She was even gnawing for awhile. They will do that when they have something stuck in their throat. So I'm leaning towards bone for Gia, and maybe even the same with Lexie. She wasn't acting as bad as Gia, she was just dry heaving a bit off and on.


----------



## TLI

Oh, forgot to answer, yes, no other changes at all.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Could they possibly have gotten a hold of some hair? Human hair? 
Maybe they got some stuck in their throats. Mine have before.
I can't think of anything else? Hmmm......


----------



## TLI

It could be hair, but I wouldn't suspect that both ate it at the same time. Know what I mean? I'm thinking now that it was small bone pieces that may just not have gone down right. But neither girl would touch the medallion this evening.  Quirky things happen, doesn't it!?!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Yeah, I thought it would be strange if they both got hair stuck, but strangers things have happened. 
Are they still both going at it? 
This is so weird???


----------



## rcj1095

So odd T. It has to be the medallions though since neither girl would touch it tonight. Chance ate it fine??? I'm bewildered. It has to be the bone!!!


----------



## TLI

Gia has calmed down quite a bit. I fed her some kibble with canned mixed in after I gave her the forced water. I think maybe it moved whatever was stuck in her throat. She makes a lil hack sound here and there, but nothing like it was. I fed Lexie some canned food and she doesn't seem to be dry heaving now. So it is improving with both girls at this point. That really scares me though.


----------



## TLI

That's what I'm thinking too. My Dad said, T, dogs are smart, they know that whatever it is that's bothering them came from the food. Chance had no problems, and ate his fine tonight. I'm not sure I want to take chances of them getting bones lodged. That scares me to much.


----------



## rcj1095

TLI said:


> That's what I'm thinking too. My Dad said, T, dogs are smart, they know that whatever it is that's bothering them came from the food. Chance had no problems, and ate his fine tonight. I'm not sure I want to take chances of them getting bones lodged. That scares me to much.


The bones are so small though. Are you gonna keep trying or will you be a wreck???


----------



## TLI

rcj1095 said:


> The bones are so small though. Are you gonna keep trying or will you be a wreck???


I would just worry every single time I give them one. I guess they aren't chewing the bone pieces good enough. Just trying to swallow it down with the meat, and it gets hung. I'm not sure, but I will just constantly worry about someone getting choked after going through this. Gia has had a tough day, poor girl.


----------



## Muzby

Poor puppers! I do hope you try again, if it happens a second time THEN I would stop..

As an aside, this is exactly why I do my own. I know what they are eating and what size things are.


----------



## TLI

Muzby said:


> Poor puppers! I do hope you try again, if it happens a second time THEN I would stop..
> 
> As an aside, this is exactly why I do my own. I know what they are eating and what size things are.


Yeah, I was very excited about the change. Leave it up to my pups to have some kind of problem with it.


----------



## Brodysmom

Oh Teresa - what a bummer!! I've never experienced that with Brody. He wasn't very fond of the medallions, but he never acted like he was choking on one. The bones in the medallions we had were almost microscopic! Maybe it just felt scratchy on the way down and they weren't used to that and it felt like something was stuck? I bet that was what it was. But still. Not a very good start. I would keep Chance on it though since he is tolerating it fine and maybe it would help his allergies. You could also mix just a teaspoon of canned in with the girls medallion if you want to try again and maybe that would entice them to eat it. A mystery for sure!!

On a high note for us .... Brody ate liver tonight!! I have been trying to get him to eat some as it is necessary but he would NOT eat it. I kept offering it over and over and no dice. It was chicken liver. So today at the store I bought sliced beef liver and took it out of the package and tried that. NOPE. I was grilling some steaks for our dinner so I took his liver out and just barely seared it on the grill (still very rare inside) and let it cool and then offered it and he GOBBLED IT DOWN! HE LOVED IT and was begging for more. My picky boy! Begging for more! Crazy wonderful. 

Brodysmom


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Oh Teresa - what a bummer!! I've never experienced that with Brody. He wasn't very fond of the medallions, but he never acted like he was choking on one. The bones in the medallions we had were almost microscopic! Maybe it just felt scratchy on the way down and they weren't used to that and it felt like something was stuck? I bet that was what it was. But still. Not a very good start. I would keep Chance on it though since he is tolerating it fine and maybe it would help his allergies. You could also mix just a teaspoon of canned in with the girls medallion if you want to try again and maybe that would entice them to eat it. A mystery for sure!!
> 
> On a high note for us .... Brody ate liver tonight!! I have been trying to get him to eat some as it is necessary but he would NOT eat it. I kept offering it over and over and no dice. It was chicken liver. So today at the store I bought sliced beef liver and took it out of the package and tried that. NOPE. I was grilling some steaks for our dinner so I took his liver out and just barely seared it on the grill (still very rare inside) and let it cool and then offered it and he GOBBLED IT DOWN! HE LOVED IT and was begging for more. My picky boy! Begging for more! Crazy wonderful.
> 
> Brodysmom


Crazy wonderful is right!!! I'm so darn happy when Brody decides to eat something. Searing it really helped, huh? I haven't experienced the livers or anything like that with mine but I like all the tips I can get. It was still basically raw, right??? Good job girl. I'm so glad you haven't gotten discouraged yet!


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## Brodysmom

Robin, I was SOOOOOOO HAPPY that he ate the liver! Surely just a little searing of the liver is better than none at all. I think it was the slimy consistency that he didn't want. The searing kind of firmed it up. It was still really rare inside.

Oh, and I've knocked out the canned now too. You know I was doing the tablespoon of canned in the morning with the Nupro powder? Well, I decided to just go to ground beef. I just take out about an ounce of burger (medallion sized) and smush it up with the Nupro and he eats it GREAT. I'm so happy that this raw feeding is working for him!! OH, and I think he might even have gained an ounce or two! He's always been so lean. But when I picked him up this evening he seemed more solid. I'm just on cloud nine. 

Brodysmom


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Way to go Brody!!!!

That's great Tracy! He is really coming around!!!!

Ground meat with Nupro! Great idea! 
Nupro Meatballs! I will have to give that a try once I start mine on beef.


----------



## rcj1095

Tracy, I'm smiling from ear to ear for you!!! Brody sure could gain an ounce or two. He's lean but gorgeous. I'd almost rather have our chi's underweight than overweight. I'm a little worried about Chloe. She's a stocky, chunky thing and she loves food of any kind. Are you worried about the fat in ground beef or because he's slim, you're not worried??? I haven't jumped into the raw like you and Lisa and Monica and Zethsmommy. I'm trying to get it all square in my head, ya know? I'll go back and check the chart that Kelly wrote out for us. Gotta talk with my butcher too!!! I'm so proud of you and our Brody. I'm really thrilled for you!!!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Robin, take your time and get all the info you need until your comfortable to take the raw leap. 
I was going to wait until I read everything, and found out as much info as I could about raw feeding too, but I think I do better with the learn as you go technique.Lol.
I figured even if I screw up in the beginning, and not give an organ when they should have had an organ, it can't be any worse then if I was just giving them kibble. You know what I mean?

Love ya girl!

P.S.
Chloe is just perfect!! I think she is just built that way. A lot of chi's are.


----------



## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Robin, take your time and get all the info you need until your comfortable to take the raw leap.
> I was going to wait until I read everything, and found out as much info as I could about raw feeding too, but I think I do better with the learn as you go technique.Lol.
> I figured even if I screw up in the beginning, and not give an organ when they should have had an organ, it can't be any worse then if I was just giving them kibble. You know what I mean?
> 
> Love ya girl!
> 
> P.S.
> Chloe is just perfect!! I think she is just built that way. A lot of chi's are.


Lisa, you always say the exact perfect thing, do you realize that? Thank you. I'm so slowly building into this. Mine have had all raw (medallions and nupro) for a while now. They loved the raw rib bones and meat and learning from you girls what to do. I need to stock up and I just have to jump in like you guys. I know it's best and I'm not even scared anymore. Just have to do it!!! What would I ever do without you girls??? Love ya sweetie! You think Chloe's okay? I don't know why I'm worried but she's already outgrown her Mom and Dad and both sets of grandparents. She's still so little (3.4 lbs.) but she's so sturdy!!! I just can't have an overweight chi, I worry so much about them.


----------



## TLI

I'm thrilled for all of you ladies that are having success with this. I know what a good feeling it is when your fur-kids are eating well. I have had brief moments of that. :lol: It's like a high knowing you are feeding them well, they are healthy, eating good, etc. There is nothing we wouldn't do for our babies. It's just like you want your kids to eat well. You guys are all doing so awesome with all of this, and even though our experience didn't go so well, I keep reading. It's interesting even if it doesn't work out for us. I get all excited just reading y'alls excitement.  And I thank you all so much for all of your help!

Robin, don't worry about your girls being overweight. They look just fine the way they are. Like Lisa said, there are many Chi's built that way, they are perfect. They are sturdy which you should be thankful for. I would give anything for my girls to have some bulk and not be so fragile. It isn't fun having to worry yourself constantly about them being too thin, not eating, yada, yada, yada. It is making me Grey way before my time. With the little weight that Chance has put on it makes me feel so good to see him more sturdy. I am determined to find the right food combo for mine so that he doesn't lose that weight and look like a sack of bones again. And possibly put some meat on these boney girls of mine. So relax, they look awesome!!!


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## Brodysmom

Robin, I think it's kind of like when we have chubby children. You don't put them on a "diet", you just wait for their growth spurts to catch up with them and make sure you are feeding them healthy and that they are active and getting exercise. Same with our Chi's. I wouldn't restrict Chloe's food at all, she's still a growing puppy. She will grow into herself as she ages. And I think she's got a more cobby build than others, Lily for example is so petitie and feminine. Chloe is a bigger girl, bigger boned. Two beautiful perfect puppies, just different genetics. 

Brodysmom


----------



## TLI

Is there a reason why you are worried about her outgrowing her parents? That isn't a bad thing?


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## rcj1095

TLI said:


> I'm thrilled for all of you ladies that are having success with this. I know what a good feeling it is when your fur-kids are eating well. I have had brief moments of that. :lol: It's like a high knowing you are feeding them well, they are healthy, eating good, etc. There is nothing we wouldn't do for our babies. It's just like you want your kids to eat well. You guys are all doing so awesome with all of this, and even though our experience didn't go so well, I keep reading. It's interesting even if it doesn't work out for us. I get all excited just reading y'alls excitement.  And I thank you all so much for all of your help!
> 
> Robin, don't worry about your girls being overweight. They look just fine the way they are. Like Lisa said, there are many Chi's built that way, they are perfect. They are sturdy which you should be thankful for. I would give anything for my girls to have some bulk and not be so fragile. It isn't fun having to worry yourself constantly about them being too thin, not eating, yada, yada, yada. It is making me Grey way before my time. With the little weight that Chance has put on it makes me feel so good to see him more sturdy. I am determined to find the right food combo for mine so that he doesn't lose that weight and look like a sack of bones again. And possibly put some meat on these boney girls of mine. So relax, they look awesome!!!


You girls are so good to me. I am not typically a worrier at all!!! Thanks T. I am relieved, after Bam, to not worry about low blood sugar and all that. She's just so much stockier than Lily Pad. It's all about build, huh? My vet said she's fine and she's much smaller than a lot of chi's but she's built small so being overweight will not benefit her one bit. My vet thinks she'll top out at 4 lbs. or so but thinks her actual body structure is pretty much done growing. That's the only reason I worry. Ya know, short and cobby can't afford a lot of weight. Thanks again for your reassuring words. I'm gonna feed her as directed and we'll see where my little chunkster ends up!!!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Robin, I am always worrying about my chi's weight too. 
Lola is tiny and can't carry any extra weight. I need to see a waistline, and on her. 
Lily and Lila are built the same. They both have a that tuck (I guess that is what they call it?), and a little bit of a waist, but Lily tends to put on weight easily so I need to watch her, while Lila has a higher metabolism, so she is no problem. Lily can look stocky if i don't watch her food intake. I'd like her to loose a pound.
Maxx is different. I think he has a body structure like Chloe's. More stocky. Not fat, just stocky. Some chi's are built that way. 
You know when I watch the dog shows, and I see the chi's in the ring, they all seem to have a stocky body to me. 
I think Chloe is just a little show dog in hiding.


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## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Robin, I think it's kind of like when we have chubby children. You don't put them on a "diet", you just wait for their growth spurts to catch up with them and make sure you are feeding them healthy and that they are active and getting exercise. Same with our Chi's. I wouldn't restrict Chloe's food at all, she's still a growing puppy. She will grow into herself as she ages. And I think she's got a more cobby build than others, Lily for example is so petitie and feminine. Chloe is a bigger girl, bigger boned. Two beautiful perfect puppies, just different genetics.
> 
> Brodysmom


Thanks Tracy, you're so right. I just need to relax!!! Thank you so much for everything. I don't know why I'm worried but I've always had such "thin" chi's. I just want her to be healthy and live a long time!!! 


TLI said:


> Is there a reason why you are worried about her outgrowing her parents? That isn't a bad thing?


The only thing that worried me was when the vet said that her structure is pretty much grown. I think she's fine and I love her cobby body just as it is. I just want to be aware of it and not have to worry about her being overweight. Thanks so much for your words. I just want a long, healthy life with her. I love her so much!!!


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## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Robin, I am always worrying about my chi's weight too.
> Lola is tiny and can't carry any extra weight. I need to see a waistline, and on her.
> Lily and Lila are built the same. They both have a that tuck (I guess that is what they call it?), and a little bit of a waist, but Lily tends to put on weight easily so I need to watch her, while Lila has a higher metabolism, so she is no problem. Lily can look stocky if i don't watch her food intake. I'd like her to loose a pound.
> Maxx is different. I think he has a body structure like Chloe's. More stocky. Not fat, just stocky. Some chi's are built that way.
> You know when I watch the dog shows, and I see the chi's in the ring, they all seem to have a stocky body to me.
> I think Chloe is just a little show dog in hiding.


Lisa, I love you!!! Thank you. I'm not usually a worrier like this, but lately I've been concerned. Andrew made such a fuss about how chunky she was the other night. I've only ever had Coco (skinny) and Bambi (too thin) and Lily (tiny and petite) so I think I have it in my mind to keep her thin and healthy. I don't care how big she gets, I just want her to be healthy and not overweight. She has such a cobby body and short little legs!!! You girls are so reassuring. It's been bugging me but I haven't mentioned it. Thanks sweetie!!!


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## TLI

Robin, she is still very young. She still has at least 2 more months to grow in height and length, and a year to fill out, so everything may look more in place to you at that point, know what I mean? Chloe is just going to be a big girl, and I don't mean fat. So many mistake saying big as in saying fat. I don't think Chloe will stop at 4 lbs., but I think the weight she has will be carried in a good way. Cobbies carry extra weight and bulk but it just looks right on them. Wait until she's 18 months old, and if that point you still feel like she's carrying to much weight, then you can cut back her food. 

Lexie is like Lisa's Lola, while she needs to gain some, she can't gain much because she doesn't have the bone structure for it. Chance is a small fry, but has a more sturdy build, and doesn't need to be over 4 lbs. Gia is very short in height and length, at 6" long, so she could get fat later in years, I'm sure. Her build isn't cobby so the extra weight wouldn't look good on her. She would just look tiny and fat. I'd like to keep her where she is now. I can't say what Jade will be built like yet. She hasn't graduated from looking like a 9 week old puppy yet. :lol:

Like Lisa mentioned above, we always worry about things being right, that's what Mom's do. You just have to monitor things as you go and do your best at keeping them at the weight they need to be at. It's an ongoing thing. You are a great Mom, and your babies look awesome. So try not to worry to much, even though I know that's easier said than done.


----------



## rcj1095

TLI said:


> Robin, she is still very young. She still has at least 2 more months to grow in height and length, and a year to fill out, so everything may look more in place to you at that point, know what I mean? Chloe is just going to be a big girl, and I don't mean fat. So many mistake saying big as in saying fat. I don't think Chloe will stop at 4 lbs., but I think the weight she has will be carried in a good way. Cobbies carry extra weight and bulk but it just looks right on them. Wait until she's 18 months old, and if that point you still feel like she's carrying to much weight, then you can cut back her food.
> 
> Lexie is like Lisa's Lola, while she needs to gain some, she can't gain much because she doesn't have the bone structure for it. Chance is a small fry, but has a more sturdy build, and doesn't need to be over 4 lbs. Gia is very short in height and length, at 6" long, so she could get fat later in years, I'm sure. Her build isn't cobby so the extra weight wouldn't look good on her. She would just look tiny and fat. I'd like to keep her where she is now. I can't say what Jade will be built like yet. She hasn't graduated from looking like a 9 week old puppy yet. :lol:
> 
> Like Lisa mentioned above, we always worry about things being right, that's what Mom's do. You just have to monitor things as you go and do your best at keeping them at the weight they need to be at. It's an ongoing thing. You are a great Mom, and your babies look awesome. So try not to worry to much, even though I know that's easier said than done.


Oh Teresa, I feel so much better. I'm so glad this came up tonight cuz it's really been bothering me. I love her little cobby body and you're right, if at 18 months, she's got some extra weight, we'll get it off of her. She does carry it well though. She's got a sturdy build. Thanks for always being so patient with me and giving me such good advice. I would have killed to have an extra pound on Bambi. She may even have survived surgery if she had that. I think that experience has scarred me for life. You're such a good friend, thank you sweetie!!!


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## carrera

Just another update- Turns out I bought pork neck, not chicken neck, all the same right? But man was the impossible to cut! The whole thing was already in pieces, but they were still too big so i want to 1/4 it-that was impossible! the bones go every which way. I will probably give them a piece of it next week and see how they do. Muzby the texture of the bone was much different-it was all white stuff, no blood in the middle really, is that normal. For the chicken thigh bone it was much more bloody and easier to break apart. We'll see how things go I guess. 
I gave Chicco and Carrera dime size pieces of liver (i was seperated that into baggies as well), Carrera of course was slow to eat it, she only ate it I think because she didn't want Chicco to have it. But then she was whining for it after so who knows. Chicco has no problems with anything, he would eat anything!-I gave him lettuce tonight and he ate it, crazy boy!
Today they had a lamb medallion for breakfast and chicken thigh with no bone for dinner. I didn't see Carrera eat any kibble, and Chicco only ate maybe 10 pieces through out the day. Chicco pooped half as much as he normally does-crazy how fast it changed over! And it was good consistency too, yay! 
I formed 2 lbs. of ground beef into medallion size pieces for next week, I think I already have enough meat and bone to last me for a good 3 weeks I would say. 
Oh about the organs- I don't know of any ethnic food stores around me that sell organs, I might try the health food store maybe though. I know theres a huge market about 1 1/2 away from me and they sell EVERYTHING! Maybe I'll go there and stock up sometime...

RCJ-September might work for me, what do you think about the Doggie Beach in Stow?PM me


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## BABY BABS

I can't believe how many pages get added to this post every day, but I am so glad you are all here discussing this. People look at me like I grew a second head every time I talk about feeding raw. Oh, and if they see it lol. I am still have some occassional diahrea. About 1 day a week. I'm going to really watch the amount of skin and fat they get. That might be the problem. Also, I have two other issues that I am wondering if any one has run it to. Babs licks her feet for quite a while after eating. I think it may be because she holds her food down while eating and then her feet taste good. The second item is that my 9lb chi hasn't looked like she's gained weight but she's about 13 lbs now. She feels solid, like a little body builder. Anybody else noticing a muscle gain?


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## Muzby

If they get messy, they will lick it off. Tasty! Betty has her front white mits stained red. 

As for muscle, YES YES YES! We had a cat who was what we thought a larger boy, but not huge.. he's SO HEAVY. 13 lbs. :O

Now make sure she's just not getting fat! Can you feel her spine? What about her ribs? You could just be feeding too much (or too much fat).


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

carrera said:


> Just another update- Turns out I bought pork neck, not chicken neck, all the same right? But man was the impossible to cut! The whole thing was already in pieces, but they were still too big so i want to 1/4 it-that was impossible! the bones go every which way. I will probably give them a piece of it next week and see how they do. Muzby the texture of the bone was much different-it was all white stuff, no blood in the middle really, is that normal. For the chicken thigh bone it was much more bloody and easier to break apart. We'll see how things go I guess.
> I gave Chicco and Carrera dime size pieces of liver (i was seperated that into baggies as well), Carrera of course was slow to eat it, she only ate it I think because she didn't want Chicco to have it. But then she was whining for it after so who knows. Chicco has no problems with anything, he would eat anything!-I gave him lettuce tonight and he ate it, crazy boy!
> Today they had a lamb medallion for breakfast and chicken thigh with no bone for dinner. I didn't see Carrera eat any kibble, and Chicco only ate maybe 10 pieces through out the day. Chicco pooped half as much as he normally does-crazy how fast it changed over! And it was good consistency too, yay!
> I formed 2 lbs. of ground beef into medallion size pieces for next week, I think I already have enough meat and bone to last me for a good 3 weeks I would say.
> Oh about the organs- I don't know of any ethnic food stores around me that sell organs, I might try the health food store maybe though. I know theres a huge market about 1 1/2 away from me and they sell EVERYTHING! Maybe I'll go there and stock up sometime...
> 
> RCJ-September might work for me, what do you think about the Doggie Beach in Stow?PM me


I think pork bone is to hard for them. I think?? 
Am I wrong? Don't they use those as rec bones for larger dogs? Beef too? Someone (Kelly, Tracy) jump in.

I had asked Kelly, a.k.a Muzby, and she said to stick with chicken, rabbit and sometimes turkey bones.


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## Muzby

Since your kids are JUST getting into raw, I would feed the pork neck with caution. It certainly won't kill them, but I am unsure how soft pork bones are in relation to chi teeth. I would likely offer those neck bones as a treat to really WORK to get the meat off.. then toss before they get too much into the boney part.

Is the white stuff marrow!?


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## carrera

here is a link of what exactly I had http://www.rawfeddogs.net/RecipePhoto/3/10 , it had the brown spots on it as well. The White is not the marrow, it is the outer edge of the bone, when I tried to cut into it I could not get to the marrow-which is normally red right? 
I might give it to my parents dog, they have a bigger jack russel who could probably handle it better, or maybe i'll try and see how it goes-last time i buy pork neck i guess! oh well, good thing it was only $1


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## rcj1095

Okay, I did it!!! I just jumped in. I stopped at my butcher's on the way home from work. I got them chicken legs at .99 lb. and some beef liver. I came home and cut a leg up in 4 pieces (totally guesstimated the portions) and gave it to them. OH MY GOD!!! I've never seen happier pups in all my life. The growling was insane (hopefully that will go away???). There was bone in each piece along with chicken and some fat. Here's some pics of them.
























This is delicious!!!
















They had a ball. Coop finished first (of course). Coco next, then Chloe and Lily worked on hers for 10 minutes longer than anybody else. It took the "littles" a good 20 minutes to get theirs down. 

I am so excited. The response was awesome. I am going to look into everything but I figured I'd just jump in and get the chicken started. I can only get chicken gizzards, lchicken liver and beef liver from my butcher so I'll have to get the "other" stuff somewhere else.

I know I'm gonna have more questions but I figured this was a good start!!!

I know I can't do bone everyday. I should cut everything up and freeze it? How often can they do chicken bone to start? I'm gonna stick with chicken. I have ground beef and the beef liver. I guess I'm not sure what to feed tomorrow. I'll read the menu that Kelly posted and see what it says! I'm so glad I did this!!!


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## Brodysmom

Wow Robin!!! I can't believe your success! Look at those pups GO! That is so awesome. 

I'd just go slow and do chicken only for the next week or so. (With or without the NV medallions, your choice). I think what you did today with cutting up the leg into 4 portions was just right. They might be getting a little more bone than they need but if they don't get constipated, there's no problem with it. I wouldn't do a lot of variety for now. Just stick with the chicken legs. Right Kelly?

Did you take the fat off? No problem, unless it gives them loose stools. Hopefully the bone will just balance it and you'll have normal stools. If they are a little loose, you can take the fat off next time.

We've been doing this awhile so Brody can tolerate chicken and beef. I gave Brody ground beef this morning with his Nupro. A few dice sized pieces of raw steak for lunch and then a cornish hen back for dinner. (I swear this dog eats better than we do! ha) He had liver yesterday (probably too much but he liked it so I gave him a couple dice sized pieces and he only should have had one). And he FINALLY pooped tonight. I was afraid the liver might give him a loose stool but it didn't. I just let him out and he had one TINY poop about the size of a tootsie rool candy and about that consistency. Small and firm and Perfect. 

OK, now I know I am crazy since I am celebrating dog poop!!!  Woo HOO!

Brodysmom


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## carrera

Good job Robin! Since I dove right into like you I gave chicken thigh with little fat and some bone the first day. Then yesterday I gave them lamb medallions for breakfast and for dinner I gave them chicken thigh without the bone. Today they had the same thing-they havnt had dinner yet though. 
Friday or Saturday I plan to give chicken thigh with bone again, along with some chicken liver. I also have ground beef that I will give them Friday or Saturday as well. I will probably give a lamb medallion the same day as the beef, then the liver and boney thigh together-make sense? You mentioned you couldn't find any other organs, I found hearts and gizzards combined at Giant Eagle in Montrose, I am considering using that even though I wont know what is gizzards and what is hearts. Since were both in the same area please let me know what specials you find around us, I'll keep you posted on what I find. 
Oh about storing- For the bone pieces I seperated them while they were unfrozen, and put them in tupperware containers, if you layer I would seperate with wax paper. The liver I cut up as well and put in to snack size baggies with 2 portions (one for each of them) and froze them as well. I used the snack size baggies for my beef balls too. For the pieces of thigh that did not have bone I put them in a seperate container from the bone ones. All is organized and in its own place, I planned to have to use 1 liver a week, so one baggie, then the beef balls I put together in sets of 4, and plan to thaw a day before needed them and then feed for the following two days. Its easier to have things seperated,cut and portioned before hand because then all you do is thaw and feed


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## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Wow Robin!!! I can't believe your success! Look at those pups GO! That is so awesome.
> 
> I'd just go slow and do chicken only for the next week or so. (With or without the NV medallions, your choice). I think what you did today with cutting up the leg into 4 portions was just right. They might be getting a little more bone than they need but if they don't get constipated, there's no problem with it. I wouldn't do a lot of variety for now. Just stick with the chicken legs. Right Kelly?
> 
> Did you take the fat off? No problem, unless it gives them loose stools. Hopefully the bone will just balance it and you'll have normal stools. If they are a little loose, you can take the fat off next time.
> 
> We've been doing this awhile so Brody can tolerate chicken and beef. I gave Brody ground beef this morning with his Nupro. A few dice sized pieces of raw steak for lunch and then a cornish hen back for dinner. (I swear this dog eats better than we do! ha) He had liver yesterday (probably too much but he liked it so I gave him a couple dice sized pieces and he only should have had one). And he FINALLY pooped tonight. I was afraid the liver might give him a loose stool but it didn't. I just let him out and he had one TINY poop about the size of a tootsie rool candy and about that consistency. Small and firm and Perfect.
> 
> OK, now I know I am crazy since I am celebrating dog poop!!!  Woo HOO!
> 
> Brodysmom


No, you're not crazy at all!!! I celebrate everything with these angels. I'm particularly pleased with Lily Pad. She's the "fussy" one of the group. Thanks for your encouragement. I'm still so confused as to what to feed them weekly but I will do my studying so I'll figure it out. For the next week or so I should just do chicken? With bone every time? That's all I bought but I don't mind using the medallions also. I know we've gone thru this a million times but I just wanna do it right.


carrera said:


> Good job Robin! Since I dove right into like you I gave chicken thigh with little fat and some bone the first day. Then yesterday I gave them lamb medallions for breakfast and for dinner I gave them chicken thigh without the bone. Today they had the same thing-they havnt had dinner yet though.
> Friday or Saturday I plan to give chicken thigh with bone again, along with some chicken liver. I also have ground beef that I will give them Friday or Saturday as well. I will probably give a lamb medallion the same day as the beef, then the liver and boney thigh together-make sense? You mentioned you couldn't find any other organs, I found hearts and gizzards combined at Giant Eagle in Montrose, I am considering using that even though I wont know what is gizzards and what is hearts. Since were both in the same area please let me know what specials you find around us, I'll keep you posted on what I find.
> Oh about storing- For the bone pieces I seperated them while they were unfrozen, and put them in tupperware containers, if you layer I would seperate with wax paper. The liver I cut up as well and put in to snack size baggies with 2 portions (one for each of them) and froze them as well. I used the snack size baggies for my beef balls too. For the pieces of thigh that did not have bone I put them in a seperate container from the bone ones. All is organized and in its own place, I planned to have to use 1 liver a week, so one baggie, then the beef balls I put together in sets of 4, and plan to thaw a day before needed them and then feed for the following two days. Its easier to have things seperated,cut and portioned before hand because then all you do is thaw and feed


I'll get on it girl. Thank you so much. I've got to get this "down" but I just needed to jump in and do it. I've got the medallions also so I can still use those. I'm gonna go to the menu that Kelly prepared and study that. I'll keep ya posted as to what I find and I work 30 seconds from that Giant Eagle so I can definitely stop there. Thanks again for all the "help"!!!


----------



## TLI

Looks like they all did great, Robin. We had to switch to ZiwiPeak today. But I'm still very happy with it. It's supposed to be the next best thing to raw. It looks like shredded jerky. I'm also using the canned too. No grains at all, not even rice or potatoes. All meat, organs, and that kinda stuff. They liked it, and so far no coughing, choking, and dry heaving.  Maybe it will help with the allergies, and it's good for them. I'm happy. 

I'm gonna keep following the thread even though we aren't able to participate.


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## Brodysmom

T- I've heard good things about ziwipeak. I think it's similar to Wysong Archetype which I bought for Brody. Dehydrated raw. Sure is expensive!! I hope it works for your crew.

Robin - I think as long as you strive for mostly meat, a little bit of bone, and a smidge or organ you will be fine. Then just tweak it according to their systems... if they seem loose, add more bone. If they seem constipated, add more meat. You can't go wrong! It's pretty easy really. You are looking for balance in the long run. It doesn't have to be balanced at each and every feeding. 

Get out your kitchen shears and just have them eat their way through a chicken! Add in a smidge of liver once a week or so and you are good. I wouldn't worry about adding other meats other than the medallions at this point.

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Yea!!! Robin they are loving it!!!! Good job girl.... I am so happy you jumped right in!
I'm still a work in progress too, but I'm learning something about raw everyday! 



Lola is still gulping her food, and I don't know what to do about her. I have tried bigger pieces and held on to it, but she still gulps it down. I'm going to try and give it to her a bit frozen and see how that goes. I don't know what else to try. I can see when she gulps it, it gets stuck in her throat, and she tries working it down. Scares me everytime.
She does this with the meaty bone or just the meat. What can I do??? Anyone???


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## rcj1095

TLI said:


> Looks like they all did great, Robin. We had to switch to ZiwiPeak today. But I'm still very happy with it. It's supposed to be the next best thing to raw. It looks like shredded jerky. I'm also using the canned too. No grains at all, not even rice or potatoes. All meat, organs, and that kinda stuff. They liked it, and so far no coughing, choking, and dry heaving.  Maybe it will help with the allergies, and it's good for them. I'm happy.
> 
> I'm gonna keep following the thread even though we aren't able to participate.


Please keep following honey. You don't know that if you decided to do your own "raw" that it wouldn't work out one day!!! I've also heard good things about ziwipeak. You are a huge researcher and I know you've gotten the next best thing for them. Keep us posted, in this thread about their progress, okay? It's still almost raw!!! We can't have your babies in distress. I feel so much better today about my little Chloe, thanks to your girls advice, thanks again for "holding" my hand thru that. 


Brodysmom said:


> T- I've heard good things about ziwipeak. I think it's similar to Wysong Archetype which I bought for Brody. Dehydrated raw. Sure is expensive!! I hope it works for your crew.
> 
> Robin - I think as long as you strive for mostly meat, a little bit of bone, and a smidge or organ you will be fine. Then just tweak it according to their systems... if they seem loose, add more bone. If they seem constipated, add more meat. You can't go wrong! It's pretty easy really. You are looking for balance in the long run. It doesn't have to be balanced at each and every feeding.
> 
> Get out your kitchen shears and just have them eat their way through a chicken! Add in a smidge of liver once a week or so and you are good. I wouldn't worry about adding other meats other than the medallions at this point.
> 
> Brodysmom


Great advice, thank you. I think I'm almost putting too much thought into it, ya know? That's why I grabbed the legs tonight. I'll get a full chicken also. I'm so excited Tracy!!! I can only imagine your excitement cuz Brody gives you such heartache over "eating". LOL. We really need to get a life don't we, ha,ha,ha!!! Thanks honey for all the encouragement!!!


*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Yea!!! Robin they are loving it!!!! Good job girl.... I am so happy you jumped right in!
> I'm still a work in progress too, but I'm learning something about raw everyday!
> 
> 
> 
> Lola is still gulping her food, and I don't know what to do about her. I have tried bigger pieces and held on to it, but she still gulps it down. I'm going to try and give it to her a bit frozen and see how that goes. I don't know what else to try. I can see when she gulps it, it gets stuck in her throat, and she tries working it down. Scares me everytime.
> She does this with the meaty bone or just the meat. What can I do??? Anyone???


No clue. One of our resident experts will have to jump in here. Coop got thru his (a much bigger piece, obviously) so quickly that it just blew my mind. I think some dogs are just "gulpers". She'll work it out, don't worry!!! Thanks for being my inspiration!!!


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## Muzby

Gulpers need large pieces and frozen. If she is STILL gulping, I suggest small bite sized pieces until the novelty of it has worn off and she starts to slow down.

Also, feeding her in another room with nobody else (dogs/cats) around.


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## TLI

Brodysmom said:


> T- I've heard good things about ziwipeak. I think it's similar to Wysong Archetype which I bought for Brody. Dehydrated raw. Sure is expensive!! I hope it works for your crew.
> 
> Brodysmom


The lady that has the store that I get the premium foods at said she just got it in. She said she has heard so many great things about it. So I'm hoping it all goes well for us. And I hear ya. Very expensive! $24.00 for a 2.2 lb. bag, and almost $4 a can for the canned.  But they really seemed to like it, and if it works for the allergies, I'll stick to it as long as I can afford it. :lol: It's good that they eat so little of it. It comes with a small scoop, I believe 1.5 oz. scoop, and I only use one scoop a day for all 3. I think there is 23 scoops in a bag. I might be off a little on all of that, but I'm to lazy to get back up to get the bag. :lol: I use the can only for a little hold over through the night. I feed them about 2 tablespoons a piece at 5 PM. 



*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Lola is still gulping her food, and I don't know what to do about her. I have tried bigger pieces and held on to it, but she still gulps it down. I'm going to try and give it to her a bit frozen and see how that goes. I don't know what else to try. I can see when she gulps it, it gets stuck in her throat, and she tries working it down. Scares me every time.
> She does this with the meaty bone or just the meat. What can I do??? Anyone???


Lisa, Gia does this as well. She eats so fast that she gets choked on anything that has a substance to it. But if she eats canned by itself with not much substance, she immediately throws up her food. I think that is how the small pieces of bone got to her in the medallions. She just scarfs them down so fast that they get hung. It drives me nuts that she eats that way, but I'm with you, how do you make them stop? And I also agree that it's very scary.

I'm still confused as to why Lexie was dry heaving some after eating it. I can only guess she may have swallowed some bone as well that didn't quite go down. She eats slow, so I can only guess what it was.



rcj1095 said:


> Please keep following honey. You don't know that if you decided to do your own "raw" that it wouldn't work out one day!!! I've also heard good things about ziwipeak. You are a huge researcher and I know you've gotten the next best thing for them. Keep us posted, in this thread about their progress, okay? It's still almost raw!!! We can't have your babies in distress. I feel so much better today about my little Chloe, thanks to your girls advice, thanks again for "holding" my hand thru that.


I'm thinking the ZP is gonna work well for us. I'm hoping so anyway. Maybe at some point I'll try raw again, but with Gia throwing up all day and hacking like she had something stuck in her throat, that just sends me over the edge with worry. I'm pretty excited about the ZP because they have never seemed as excited about any food before. I just hope it isn't temporary. They can seem super excited about something, then later they get tired of it, or you find it is causing some kind of other issues. But I will definitely keep you guys posted.

I'm happy that we could all make you feel better about Chloe. You know that's what we are all here for, right? :daisy:


----------



## rcj1095

TLI said:


> The lady that has the store that I get the premium foods at said she just got it in. She said she has heard so many great things about it. So I'm hoping it all goes well for us. And I hear ya. Very expensive! $24.00 for a 2.2 lb. bag, and almost $4 a can for the canned.  But they really seemed to like it, and if it works for the allergies, I'll stick to it as long as I can afford it. :lol: It's good that they eat so little of it. It comes with a small scoop, I believe 1.5 oz. scoop, and I only use one scoop a day for all 3. I think there is 23 scoops in a bag. I might be off a little on all of that, but I'm to lazy to get back up to get the bag. :lol: I use the can only for a little hold over through the night. I feed them about 2 tablespoons a piece at 5 PM.
> 
> 
> 
> Lisa, Gia does this as well. She eats so fast that she gets choked on anything that has a substance to it. But if she eats canned by itself with not much substance, she immediately throws up her food. I think that is how the small pieces of bone got to her in the medallions. She just scarfs them down so fast that they get hung. It drives me nuts that she eats that way, but I'm with you, how do you make them stop? And I also agree that it's very scary.
> 
> I'm still confused as to why Lexie was dry heaving some after eating it. I can only guess she may have swallowed some bone as well that didn't quite go down. She eats slow, so I can only guess what it was.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking the ZP is gonna work well for us. I'm hoping so anyway. Maybe at some point I'll try raw again, but with Gia throwing up all day and hacking like she had something stuck in her throat, that just sends me over the edge with worry. I'm pretty excited about the ZP because they have never seemed as excited about any food before. I just hope it isn't temporary. They can seem super excited about something, then later they get tired of it, or you find it is causing some kind of other issues. But I will definitely keep you guys posted.
> 
> I'm happy that we could all make you feel better about Chloe. You know that's what we are all here for, right? :daisy:


Yea, you guys are awesome!!! I don't blame you a bit for switching. Keep us posted. Mine do so well with the NV and they seem to love the raw. I'll know soon enough if it works for them. You have to do what's right for your babies and what doesn't give Mommy heart failure. LOL.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Muzby said:


> Gulpers need large pieces and frozen. If she is STILL gulping, I suggest small bite sized pieces until the novelty of it has worn off and she starts to slow down.
> 
> Also, feeding her in another room with nobody else (dogs/cats) around.



Kelly-
Well, the frozen didn't work out tonight. My fault. I let it thaw out to much. The one time when I need the meat to still be a bit frozen.
I cut it up into tiny pieces and hand fed her. Tomorrow they will get a meaty bone for breakfast. I will have to figure out something for Lola. I will take her in another room like you said to feed her and see if that calms her down.

I have notice something since I started doing only raw... they really don't drink much water. Is that normal? They are still peeing just as much. Also they don't poop everyday. Today they haven't went yet, and yesterday only tiny poops. Is that good?


----------



## Muzby

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Kelly-
> Well, the frozen didn't work out tonight. My fault. I let it thaw out to much. The one time when I need the meat to still be a bit frozen.
> I cut it up into tiny pieces and hand fed her. Tomorrow they will get a meaty bone for breakfast. I will have to figure out something for Lola. I will take her in another room like you said to feed her and see if that calms her down.
> 
> I have notice something since I started doing only raw... they really don't drink much water. Is that normal? They are still peeing just as much. Also they don't poop everyday. Today they haven't went yet, and yesterday only tiny poops. Is that good?


Yes, drinking less water is normal. Think about kibble.. now imagine eating only crackers for life. Would you be thirsty? Now what if someone fed you watermelon? Not so thirsty.

Not that kibble = crackers and meat = melon, but you get the idea. LOL

There is so much moisture in meat (and we give blood too, also an important part) that they just don't need to drink so much! Cats especially NEED raw for this reason (many cats get crystals caused by lack of water). 

As for the poops.. WELCOME TO THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF RAW POO! *falls over laughing*

Betty and the cats MIGHT go once a day. It's certainly not every day. Isn't it wonderful? The other really great thing is that when they go outside, you can pretty much just leave it. In a few days it will turn white and then poof! - gone!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Muzby said:


> Yes, drinking less water is normal. Think about kibble.. now imagine eating only crackers for life. Would you be thirsty? Now what if someone fed you watermelon? Not so thirsty.
> 
> Not that kibble = crackers and meat = melon, but you get the idea. LOL
> 
> There is so much moisture in meat (and we give blood too, also an important part) that they just don't need to drink so much! Cats especially NEED raw for this reason (many cats get crystals caused by lack of water).
> 
> As for the poops.. WELCOME TO THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF RAW POO! *falls over laughing*
> 
> Betty and the cats MIGHT go once a day. It's certainly not every day. Isn't it wonderful? The other really great thing is that when they go outside, you can pretty much just leave it. In a few days it will turn white and then poof! - gone!



Kelly you crack me up! 

You know I didn't think of it like that. Great way to explain it. I use to have to fill their water bowl everyday. Now, I have to pour their old water out and put fresh water.

Well not having to pick up 8 poops a day is WONDERFUL!
I am amazed!Lol! I guess they really are using what they're eating, and not just pooping it all out.
:daisy:


----------



## nicholeb5

*He ate it!!!*

I have to share my good news. Harley has eaten raw chicken two meals in a row today!!! Everyone please cross your fingers, toes, paws that he continues!!!!


----------



## rcj1095

nicholeb5 said:


> I have to share my good news. Harley has eaten raw chicken two meals in a row today!!! Everyone please cross your fingers, toes, paws that he continues!!!!


Yeah!!! I've got everything crossed over here for ya!!! Keep us posted! Great Job Harley!


----------



## Harley's Mom

OK, so I have been eagerly following this thread since page 1 and I am so inspired by you all that you have switched over to raw and the successes you are all having. I am going out this weekend and getting some medallions to start and once the wee ones are used to that will try the full on raw. I know that this is one of the best ways to feed but just needed to get my head around it! I know, I know, my problem, not theirs! I will be keeping up with all the success stories and I am sure will be sharing some of my own (fingers, toes and paws crossed).

Keep up the good work all! I will certainly be looking to you all for tips and suggestions.

I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## rcj1095

Harley's Mom said:


> OK, so I have been eagerly following this thread since page 1 and I am so inspired by you all that you have switched over to raw and the successes you are all having. I am going out this weekend and getting some medallions to start and once the wee ones are used to that will try the full on raw. I know that this is one of the best ways to feed but just needed to get my head around it! I know, I know, my problem, not theirs! I will be keeping up with all the success stories and I am sure will be sharing some of my own (fingers, toes and paws crossed).
> 
> Keep up the good work all! I will certainly be looking to you all for tips and suggestions.
> 
> I'll let you know how it goes.


Yea!!! You're joining our support group!!! I'm really pleased with how much I've learned and I feel good about it. You are so good with your knowledge and research, you'll be like Tracy and have this down in no time. I'm so happy to see you around here again but I need more!!! LOL. :coolwink:




OKay guys, I re-read this entire thread this morning from start to finish. I didn't want to keep asking questions that have already been answered. I feel so much better now. I also have the links and will study those as well. 

Question, you guys are talking about giving a dime sized piece of liver? Why? If it's one of the meals for the week, why such a small amount? I'm confused. Other than that, I got about 10 questions answered by taking the time to go thru everything. What a ton of knowledge in this thread alone.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Robin-
The liver is supposed to be a small piece, it's the organ meat like kidneys, etc... that is supposed to be a meal. Something about the vitamin A in liver if given to much is bad. I just pm'd Tracy about this earlier, so I am waiting on a reply.Lol. 

It's 5% liver and 5% organ.


----------



## Brodysmom

Ok, the way I understand it..... you do 10% of their diet in organs, 5% of that has to be liver. So it works out to be something like 1/10 of an ounce in you do it daily. If you don't balance it daily and do more of a weekly thing, then I think giving a dime sized piece of liver every few days would certainly satisfy the liver requirement. That's how I'm thinking of it! Someone else jump in if I'm doing it wrong!!

I think you can save up the liver and do a whole meal of it once in awhile, like every week or so, but you might get loose stools if you do it that way and I didn't want a blow out.  I gave Brody a dime sized piece as a snack today. 

I haven't gotten other organs yet though. I saw beef kidney in the store the other day but didn't buy it! When I went back, it was gone! So I am on the lookout. 

Yesterday Brody ate about half of a cornish hens back. I was holding it for him (DUH) and noticed it had quite a bit of "stuff" in between the little bones. I think it still had it's kidneys! Little red dots on both sides of the back? So now I'm wondering if that would count for some organ meat. It sure wasn't much though. I definitely need to get some other organs so that everything is balanced.

How's everyone doing???

Brodysmom


----------



## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Robin-
> The liver is supposed to be a small piece, it's the organ meat like kidneys, etc... that is supposed to be a meal. Something about the vitamin A in liver if given to much is bad. I just pm'd Tracy about this earlier, so I am waiting on a reply.Lol.
> 
> It's 5% liver and 5% organ.


Okay, I understand the 5%. I understand one week liver, one week kidney, the next week liver, the next week lung, etc. etc. But if it's actually one of the meals for the day, why so little? Or do you just throw it into one of their other meals??? I'm going off the 7 day meal example that Kelly gave us and it says chicken breast for breakfast and chicken liver for dinner. I gave mine liver today and must have given way too much. The liver is an organ, correct? It's 5% just like the kidney is so why would the amount be different? Thanks honey. Tryin to get it all straight. I feel a lot better after reading thru everything again, though???


----------



## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> Okay, I understand the 5%. I understand one week liver, one week kidney, the next week liver, the next week lung, etc. etc. But if it's actually one of the meals for the day, why so little? Or do you just throw it into one of their other meals??? I'm going off the 7 day meal example that Kelly gave us and it says chicken breast for breakfast and chicken liver for dinner. I gave mine liver today and must have given way too much. The liver is an organ, correct? It's 5% just like the kidney is so why would the amount be different? Thanks honey. Tryin to get it all straight. I feel a lot better after reading thru everything again, though???


Robin, you didn't give too much. If that was their liver meal for the week, then that would be great! The only caution would be that sometimes a meal of liver might give loose stools. It's pretty rich. So just be aware of that. I was afraid to give Brody a whole meal of it, so I break mine up to a smaller piece a couple times a week. 

So did yours eat the liver OK? Wow!! Brody doesn't do slimy. ha. His has to be slightly seared on each side (rare in the middle) or he wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Typical! So yours just slurped it down, right?! Man!

Brodysmom


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Robin, you didn't give too much. If that was their liver meal for the week, then that would be great! The only caution would be that sometimes a meal of liver might give loose stools. It's pretty rich. So just be aware of that. I was afraid to give Brody a whole meal of it, so I break mine up to a smaller piece a couple times a week.
> 
> So did yours eat the liver OK? Wow!! Brody doesn't do slimy. ha. His has to be slightly seared on each side (rare in the middle) or he wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Typical! So yours just slurped it down, right?! Man!
> 
> Brodysmom


Okay, I'll watch for some potty trouble today, LOL. I understand now. I can either do a meal every other week of it (if their bodies tolerate it okay) or just throw enough in that it's 5% for the week, right? Cooper ate it so fast it was ridiculous. Chloe licked for a while but ate all of hers. Lily licked and played around a bit but certainly got plenty in (half of what Chloe ate) and Coco had none of it. Soo funny. She's the only one that gets "people" food. She only gets a bit but she's not a pig and she knows if she doesn't eat, she'll get food eventually. Coop and Chloe are my "eaters". There is nothing they won't eat and they will eat and eat. Coco and Lily are my delicate eaters. They take their time, they stop when they are full and they are more select about what they eat. Coop and Chloe eat every meal as if it's their last (kinda like me last night after I grilled out) LOL!!! Okay, well I understand now. I was just gonna do a meal of it but I'll see how their little bodies do with it. I"m on several days without kibble now and all seems well. I have to do the 2% body weight and figure it out. I haven't weighed anything yet, I'm totally just guessing. Poor Coop downs his so fast, I feel bad. I hope I'm giving him enough. Thanks so much Tracy and Lisa. I think I'm "getting" it.


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Ok, the way I understand it..... you do 10% of their diet in organs, 5% of that has to be liver. So it works out to be something like 1/10 of an ounce in you do it daily. If you don't balance it daily and do more of a weekly thing, then I think giving a dime sized piece of liver every few days would certainly satisfy the liver requirement. That's how I'm thinking of it! Someone else jump in if I'm doing it wrong!!
> 
> I think you can save up the liver and do a whole meal of it once in awhile, like every week or so, but you might get loose stools if you do it that way and I didn't want a blow out.  I gave Brody a dime sized piece as a snack today.
> 
> I haven't gotten other organs yet though. I saw beef kidney in the store the other day but didn't buy it! When I went back, it was gone! So I am on the lookout.
> 
> Yesterday Brody ate about half of a cornish hens back. I was holding it for him (DUH) and noticed it had quite a bit of "stuff" in between the little bones. I think it still had it's kidneys! Little red dots on both sides of the back? So now I'm wondering if that would count for some organ meat. It sure wasn't much though. I definitely need to get some other organs so that everything is balanced.
> 
> How's everyone doing???
> 
> Brodysmom


Good job Brody!!! The only organs I have are the darn chicken and beef livers. I've checked everywhere. If I get a hold of hearts, can I just alternate between liver and hearts? 

BTW, I gave each of mine a little chicken gizzard and they almost died, they loved it so much it was like I had given them one of their favorite treats. Now, that can be a whole meal also but only 10% for the week, right?


----------



## Brodysmom

I havent' weighed anything either Robin. I am just eyeballing it, and going by the medallions which were one ounce. I figure if he needs almost 2 ounces a day at 4.8 pounds (1.6 I think, plus the tiny bit of organs) then that's not much. Which makes me feel better because he's NOT an eater!! I'm also going by how he feels and he feels just right to me. Maybe just a tad lean. But not too skinny by any means. And his energy level is off the charts. He is non stop action!!! Pretty funny. But at least I know he feels good. 

brodysmom


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Brodysmom said:


> Ok, the way I understand it..... you do 10% of their diet in organs, 5% of that has to be liver. So it works out to be something like 1/10 of an ounce in you do it daily. If you don't balance it daily and do more of a weekly thing, then I think giving a dime sized piece of liver every few days would certainly satisfy the liver requirement. That's how I'm thinking of it! Someone else jump in if I'm doing it wrong!!
> 
> I think you can save up the liver and do a whole meal of it once in awhile, like every week or so, but you might get loose stools if you do it that way and I didn't want a blow out.  I gave Brody a dime sized piece as a snack today.
> 
> I haven't gotten other organs yet though. I saw beef kidney in the store the other day but didn't buy it! When I went back, it was gone! So I am on the lookout.
> 
> Yesterday Brody ate about half of a cornish hens back. I was holding it for him (DUH) and noticed it had quite a bit of "stuff" in between the little bones. I think it still had it's kidneys! Little red dots on both sides of the back? So now I'm wondering if that would count for some organ meat. It sure wasn't much though. I definitely need to get some other organs so that everything is balanced.
> 
> How's everyone doing???
> 
> Brodysmom


Tracy I noticed the same thing in my hens. I wonder if it is the kidneys? That would be nice, huh? 
Tonight for dinner mine will be getting chicken breast with some liver. The liver is soooo liquidy that I will give it to them a bit frozen.
How much fat should I be giving them? They had a bit of it for breakfast. The size of a pinkie nail.


----------



## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> Good job Brody!!! The only organs I have are the darn chicken and beef livers. I've checked everywhere. If I get a hold of hearts, can I just alternate between liver and hearts?
> 
> BTW, I gave each of mine a little chicken gizzard and they almost died, they loved it so much it was like I had given them one of their favorite treats. Now, that can be a whole meal also but only 10% for the week, right?


Hearts are muscle. They count as meat. Maybe you could call around and see if anyone carries beef kidney? It must be kind of mainstream because I saw some at Walmart!! Or you might have to go to an ethnic market (either asian or mexican) and see if you can find some organs there. They have all kinds of goodies, you can get chicken feet, etc. !!! Oh wouldn't that be FUN! 

Gizzards count as muscle too!! So you just count it the same as chicken meat. 

I'm kicking myself for not getting that beef kidney last time I saw it! When I went back it was gone. (WHO EATS THAT?) Yucky!

Brodysmom


----------



## Brodysmom

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Tracy I noticed the same thing in my hens. I wonder if it is the kidneys? That would be nice, huh?
> Tonight for dinner mine will be getting chicken breast with some liver. The liver is soooo liquidy that I will give it to them a bit frozen.
> How much fat should I be giving them? They had a bit of it for breakfast. The size of a pinkie nail.


Lisa, you can certainly start inching up on the fat/skin. They've been doing raw long enough now. So just keep adding it in and see how they do. Your goal should be to feed the "whole prey animal" and that includes skin/bone/organs/muscle. So unless they are gaining weight with the skin added or having loose stools, you can up their skin/fat.

Brodysmom


----------



## carrera

RCJ- I found beef heart today at Marshelville Beef Packing in Doylestown- i bought almost 3 lbs. for about $4.60 They carry whole cut up rabbit too, I would try there.


----------



## rcj1095

Okay, I think I am understanding better. We need 10% muscle but that also counts as the meat? So we can just add that to the meat portion? So they should only have 10% of the 2% a week, correct???


----------



## rcj1095

carrera said:


> RCJ- I found beef heart today at Marshelville Beef Packing in Doylestown- i bought almost 3 lbs. for about $4.60 They carry whole cut up rabbit too, I would try there.


Oh my god Monica, that is like 10 minutes away from me!!! Thank you so much honey, you're a doll.


----------



## rcj1095

carrera said:


> RCJ- I found beef heart today at Marshelville Beef Packing in Doylestown- i bought almost 3 lbs. for about $4.60 They carry whole cut up rabbit too, I would try there.


When are you gonna try the rabbit? Nothing can be more gross than the darn, slimy beef liver so I may as well just get it. I used to not even be able to debone a chicken. Funny what we'll do for these little squirts.

We are also spsd to give a bit of the blood from the liver too, right???


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

If anyone wants to know what a gizzard is like I did... click this link
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-gizzards.htm


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

rcj1095 said:


> When are you gonna try the rabbit? Nothing can be more gross than the darn, slimy beef liver so I may as well just get it. I used to not even be able to debone a chicken. Funny what we'll do for these little squirts.
> 
> We are also spsd to give a bit of the blood from the liver too, right???


I know Robin, I can't believe the stuff I am willing to stick my hands in or on, just for these little chi's. I would have never done it before!


----------



## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> Okay, I think I am understanding better. We need 10% muscle but that also counts as the meat? So we can just add that to the meat portion? So they should only have 10% of the 2% a week, correct???


Girl, you are making this TOO HARD!!! HA! Meat is muscle. So hearts and gizzards count as your 80% muscle meat. I don't even understand your last question about 10% of the 2% a week. You are making my head spin!!! LOL!!!

So funny. 

Just try to have your guys eat their way through a chicken. Bones, skin, meat, and add in a little bit of liver and another organ and you are GOOD!

Brodysmom


----------



## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> If anyone wants to know what a gizzard is like I did... click this link
> http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-gizzards.htm


Great info Lisa, thank you so much. I wish mine could have more than 10% a week cuz they almost died over those gizzards. I got a pint for 1.49 at the grocery store.


----------



## Brodysmom

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> If anyone wants to know what a gizzard is like I did... click this link
> http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-gizzards.htm


Wow that's interesting!! Thanks for posting that!!


----------



## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> Great info Lisa, thank you so much. I wish mine could have more than 10% a week cuz they almost died over those gizzards. I got a pint for 1.49 at the grocery store.


Robin, I think your guys COULD have the gizzards more than the 10% a week since they count as meat/muscle. So feed them gizzards in addition to their chicken meat! Especially if you are doing a bony meal, add in some gizzards for extra meat. 

Brodysmom


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Girl, you are making this TOO HARD!!! HA! Meat is muscle. So hearts and gizzards count as your 80% muscle meat. I don't even understand your last question about 10% of the 2% a week. You are making my head spin!!! LOL!!!
> 
> So funny.
> 
> Just try to have your guys eat their way through a chicken. Bones, skin, meat, and add in a little bit of liver and another organ and you are GOOD!
> 
> Brodysmom


LOL. Try being inside my head for one day. I swear I should see a therapist daily. Ha.Ha.Ha. I was just going by 80% meat, 10% organ (5% liver, 5% other) and 10% muscle. So if I do 2% of the dogs weight then only 10% a week should be muscle? That's all I meant. I'll get better about this and stop "over" thinking, okay??? Thanks again girl for all your patience.


----------



## rcj1095

Okay, got it. You're so right I am totally overthinking. I think I have everything I need and I'll just see how this goes. I'll try to get my hands on a couple other forms of organ and go from there. Thanks my chi girlfriends.


----------



## Brodysmom

Muzby said:


> Excel spreadsheet on how much raw to feed her dog (it actually says cat, but it's the same for each).
> http://artsiekat.com/forumpics/RawCatDiet.xls
> 
> Lola @ 3.5lbs
> 3.5	cat weight in pounds
> 2.0%	percent of body weight for food
> 80.0%	percent of meat in food
> 10.0%	percent of bone in food
> 5.0%	percent of liver in food
> 5.0%	percent of non-liver organ in food
> 6.3	ounces of meat per week
> 0.8	ounces of bone per week
> 0.4	ounces of liver per week
> 0.4	ounces of non-liver organ per week
> 7.8	ounces of total food per week
> 
> Lily @ 5lbs (losing that weight you have to feed for it)
> 5.0	cat weight in pounds
> 2.0%	percent of body weight for food
> 80.0%	percent of meat in food
> 10.0%	percent of bone in food
> 5.0%	percent of liver in food
> 5.0%	percent of non-liver organ in food
> 9.0	ounces of meat per week
> 1.1	ounces of bone per week
> 0.6	ounces of liver per week
> 0.6	ounces of non-liver organ per week
> 11.2	ounces of total food per week
> 
> Lila @ 4.5
> 4.5	cat weight in pounds
> 2.0%	percent of body weight for food
> 80.0%	percent of meat in food
> 10.0%	percent of bone in food
> 5.0%	percent of liver in food
> 5.0%	percent of non-liver organ in food
> 8.1	ounces of meat per week
> 1.0	ounces of bone per week
> 0.5	ounces of liver per week
> 0.5	ounces of non-liver organ per week
> 10.1	ounces of total food per week
> 
> Maxx @ 5.7
> 5.7	cat weight in pounds
> 2.0%	percent of body weight for food
> 80.0%	percent of meat in food
> 10.0%	percent of bone in food
> 5.0%	percent of liver in food
> 5.0%	percent of non-liver organ in food
> 10.2	ounces of meat per week
> 1.3	ounces of bone per week
> 0.6	ounces of liver per week
> 0.6	ounces of non-liver organ per week
> 12.8	ounces of total food per week
> 
> I did everyone @ 2%, if you start to feel too much rib/spine, up it to 3% for the ones who need it.
> 
> Kind: As Tracy said *tears up with pride* start with chicken only. At first this will be pricey (until you can switch to cheaper meats later), but chicken/turkey is generally the easiest on tummies. Although, since you guys were doing medallions first, you could probably intro beef at this point (which is richer than chicken and can cause tummy upset easier).
> 
> There is no ONE WAY to do things. Some people feed 80/10/10 per day, some don't. I don't. I feed 80/10/10 per week. I find it easier for myself. I make sure they eat bone every 3 days and once a week get a whole meal of organ meat (and switch off weeks between liver and others).
> 
> Muscle: roasts, breasts, shoulders, tongue, heart, tripe, gizzards, etc.
> 
> Organ: kidney, spleen, pancreas, testicles, brain, thymus, lung, etc.
> 
> Then liver.


Ok, I found this post by Kelly and copied it here. It's a good review. Especially on proportions, etc. 

Robin, look at the weights and the proportions of meat/bone/organ over a week. A 5 pound dog is only going to eat 11.2 ounces per week total. Does that make more sense???

Brodysmom


----------



## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> LOL. Try being inside my head for one day. I swear I should see a therapist daily. Ha.Ha.Ha. I was just going by 80% meat, 10% organ (5% liver, 5% other) and 10% muscle. So if I do 2% of the dogs weight then only 10% a week should be muscle? That's all I meant. I'll get better about this and stop "over" thinking, okay??? Thanks again girl for all your patience.


Ok, I see what you did. You said 10% muscle and it should be 10% bone. So the correct numbers to aim for are: 80% meat (muscle meat like chicken breast, thighs, legs, gizzards, hearts), 10% bone, and then 10% organ which is 5% liver and 5% other, like you said. 

So look at Kelly's spreadsheet I reposted that has Lisa's guys on there and their weights and what they should get for the week! 

Does that make more sense? Really! It's not hard! I think we are BOTH over thinking this now!!! LOL!

brodysmom


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Ok, I see what you did. You said 10% muscle and it should be 10% bone. So the correct numbers to aim for are: 80% meat (muscle meat like chicken breast, thighs, legs, gizzards, hearts), 10% bone, and then 10% organ which is 5% liver and 5% other, like you said.
> 
> So look at Kelly's spreadsheet I reposted that has Lisa's guys on there and their weights and what they should get for the week!
> 
> Does that make more sense? Really! It's not hard! I think we are BOTH over thinking this now!!! LOL!
> 
> brodysmom


OH MY GOD Tracy. I transposed the bone to muscle. No wonder I've been so fricking confused today. Of course it makes sense now. I've been wondering why the muscle can't count as meat, etc, etc. Thank you darling for clearing that up. I read 500 plus pages in a couple hours and I must have copied that wrong. Okay, clear as a bell!!! Mine are having chicken legs and bone again tonight, I'll keep ya posted. What's Brody having today???


----------



## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> OH MY GOD Tracy. I transposed the bone to muscle. No wonder I've been so fricking confused today. Of course it makes sense now. I've been wondering why the muscle can't count as meat, etc, etc. Thank you darling for clearing that up. I read 500 plus pages in a couple hours and I must have copied that wrong. Okay, clear as a bell!!! Mine are having chicken legs and bone again tonight, I'll keep ya posted. What's Brody having today???


I'm SO GLAD you figured that out! I was about to drive myself crazy trying to think of what you were saying?! HA HA! I can't believe you read this whole huge long thread again. So funny. 

Brody had an egg for breakfast. Of course he would NOT eat it the normal raw way, so I had to scramble it and heat it just a little bit. It was still pretty much raw, kind of like jello, but he didn't want it slimy. Brody doesn't do slimy which is why he won't do raw liver either!!!! So I figure it's still got to be healthy for him, even if it's just a little bit cooked. Right? 

He's having a cornish hen chicken wing tonight with a dice sized piece of liver.  Hopefully he'll eat it. 

Brodysmom


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Tracy-
How often do you give Brody a meaty bone? I am doing it 3 times a week, and the other 4 days are meat,liver,organs.

They get the calcium they need from eating the bones, right?


----------



## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Tracy-
> How often do you give Brody a meaty bone? I am doing it 3 times a week, and the other 4 days are meat,liver,organs.
> 
> They get the calcium they need from eating the bones, right?


That's what I understand. I also throw them a tbsp. of yogurt sometimes. That helps. What are yours having tonight???


----------



## rocky scotland

Wow u guys are all doing raw I see!!
The whole idea totally freaks me out and I don't really understand it at all but well done to you guys.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Thanks Robin!

My 4 will be dinning on chicken breast with a bit of fat/skin, and a tiny bit of chicken liver. They still have a few more hours until dinner. 
How about you? Have they had dinner yet? Tell us how it goes.

Your doing good Robin! It takes time for it all to sink it. I still get confused, and I ask a TON of questions. Just ask Tracy and Kelly. I am always PM'ing them. I'm surprised they haven't put me on ignore yet.Lol!


----------



## rcj1095

Okay, I may as well not even waste the plates I put the food on since they all pick it up and carry it around. LOL. Also, the growling is horrible. Is that gonna get better? They are all so worried that someone else is gonna get their food.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Ha! Mine growl when another chi gets to close. I don't think that will ever change. They are protecting their yummy food! I can't blame them, given the chance they would snatch up the others food real quick!
They haven't ever growled at me. I will go in there and take away the meat from them once in a while just to test them.
Good job girl! They really love it, huh? Aren't you happy you made the leap?


----------



## Muzby

Looks like you girls are doing well. 

Calcium comes from the bones and blood from meat is great for the kids!

Betty is having beef heart cut up into tiny pieces tonight so her mouth doesn't hurt.


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Kelly-

How is Betty doing now? I know you said she was doing better, has she continued to improve?


----------



## Muzby

She's great, went to the beach and she ran around like a crazy dog! She's acting a lot more active and hyper now, I think those rotten teeth were really wearing her down.  Now that they're gone she feels much better.. even trying to play with the foster kitten we have right now! I am very pleased. 

I just wanted to say also that you ladies are all doing WONDERFULLY! I just wanted to caution everyone to make sure they are only changing over as slow as their kids want.. don't rush the organ meats, guys.. you have a few months before they NEED those thing... and I don't want anyone to have a splodey-butt episode or vomit day and be scared off raw totally!


----------



## Brodysmom

I got beef kidneys at the store today. At Walmart, of all places. They only had one package, but it's HUGE and it was only $3.50. I bet there's a years supply in there. He should get about half an ounce once a week, but I"m afraid it might give him loose stools so I'm just going to give a tiny piece a couple times a week. Will that work? I'm going to try it raw. I have a feeling he won't eat it. If he won't, I'll just sear it a little and leave it mostly raw and then hopefully he can get it down.

Who eats these? I've never even heard of beef kidneys before I started raw feeding. Are there recipes, etc for it?

brodysmom


----------



## Muzby

Growling is a natural behaviour, and should ONLY be corrected if it's directed at the humans in the house or it gets out of hand and becomes full on attacks (not a quick snap at the other dog if it gets too close, I mean charging a dog who isn't even close to the food).

Betty will growl at other dogs and the cats, but we are fostering a kitten and she lets that thing jump all over her while she eats. Heh.

Kidneys are GROSS! They smell too. Blech! Always intro any organ slowly, so they don't get too much rich food at once.. and I would always suggest at first offer it with a boney meal (Off topic: Tracy, those little red things WERE kidneys!!) so it's less likely to cause poo-splosions. Our kids can now eat an entire meal of organ only with no ill effects, and bone for the next meal that day.. but it's taken a while!


----------



## rcj1095

Okay, I checked my babies for potty trouble from the liver and they are fine, thank god. I know I gave them too much. They got medallions today because I was nervous after all the liver. Is it normal for their tummies to growl? Lily sleeps on my neck all night and her little belly wa growling at 5 am. Just checking. They haven't had kibble for days now but I hear her tummy growling and I feel bad. They eat around 10 and 6 every night.


----------



## Aquarius

Just a question -

I am absoloutley paranoid about handling raw meats - I always bleach or boil the cutting board and utensils I use for cutting meat. I use seperate boards and utensils for meat and veg etc. Everything that comes in contact with raw meat is sterlised.

So - is this not a factor when feeding pets with raw meat does the bacteria/Salmonella etc get on their paws, on the floor etc!

I know they probably don't get bugs from raw meats - but we do and we are handling the dogs, their bedding etc.

Sorry if this question isn't right for this thread - but I have always been wondering!


----------



## Muzby

You can always give the little a snack, hun. They are still growing and a little snacker in between meals isn't a bad thing. Maybe a small chunk of breast meat or roast. Like.. dime size.


----------



## rcj1095

Aquarius said:


> Just a question -
> 
> I am absoloutley paranoid about handling raw meats - I always bleach or boil the cutting board and utensils I use for cutting meat. I use seperate boards and utensils for meat and veg etc. Everything that comes in contact with raw meat is sterlised.
> 
> So - is this not a factor when feeding pets with raw meat does the bacteria/Salmonella etc get on their paws, on the floor etc!
> 
> I know they probably don't get bugs from raw meats - but we do and we are handling the dogs, their bedding etc.
> 
> Sorry if this question isn't right for this thread - but I have always been wondering!


This has actually been addressed a couple of times in this thread but I know that there are a lot of pages to read thru. I wash mine in regular antibacterial soap with hot water and haven't run into any problems. I also wash my kitchen floor with the mop after they eat twice a day. No biggie. It takes two seconds and I'm not a big worrier like that. You'd have to do what you're comfortable with.


----------



## Aquarius

Thanks for that Robin - I was really wondering about it!

Yes this thread must be the longest on the board!!


----------



## Muzby

I can't speak for everyone.. but I will say this for myself:

I am not that thorough when cleaning after meats. I use soap and water, maybe vinegar at the most. 

I have been raw feeding for two years, and have not once become ill from it. I am also rather lax with my cleaning.. I have touched raw meat and then forgotten and eaten lunch.. got blood in my mouth once from liver... happens all the time. Not dead yet.

I sincerely believe we are all way to scared of meat these days. I -get- there are dangers.. but do you really need to BLEACH everything? They didn't do that back in the day, and not everyone who handled the meat died or got sick. 

Betty often eats dinner then comes to give me a kiss. I let her. I will NOT die from a little meaty kiss. Now, I -do- wash my hands after handling meat (sometimes with just warm water!!).. I do use dishsoap on our cutting board and knife.. we do have a seperate board for meat/veg.

I am weird though, in that I refuse to use any chemicals in my house and try and be as natural as possible in all aspects. 

Do you eat rare steak?


----------



## rcj1095

Muzby said:


> You can always give the little a snack, hun. They are still growing and a little snacker in between meals isn't a bad thing. Maybe a small chunk of breast meat or roast. Like.. dime size.


Okay girl, thanks. I will give them a couple of gizzards, they love and adore those. 


Aquarius said:


> Thanks for that Robin - I was really wondering about it!
> 
> Yes this thread must be the longest on the board!!


The other day, I spent hours reading thru it cuz I didn't want to ask questions that have already been asked but seriously, it is a "long" thread. I am just not that paranoid about that. I do wipe the floor up and try to not let them eat in their beds but I just don't worry that much. We are always here for you hon, don't worry!!!:coolwink:


Muzby said:


> I can't speak for everyone.. but I will say this for myself:
> 
> I am not that thorough when cleaning after meats. I use soap and water, maybe vinegar at the most.
> 
> I have been raw feeding for two years, and have not once become ill from it. I am also rather lax with my cleaning.. I have touched raw meat and then forgotten and eaten lunch.. got blood in my mouth once from liver... happens all the time. Not dead yet.
> 
> I sincerely believe we are all way to scared of meat these days. I -get- there are dangers.. but do you really need to BLEACH everything? They didn't do that back in the day, and not everyone who handled the meat died or got sick.
> 
> Betty often eats dinner then comes to give me a kiss. I let her. I will NOT die from a little meaty kiss. Now, I -do- wash my hands after handling meat (sometimes with just warm water!!).. I do use dishsoap on our cutting board and knife.. we do have a seperate board for meat/veg.
> 
> I am weird though, in that I refuse to use any chemicals in my house and try and be as natural as possible in all aspects.
> 
> Do you eat rare steak?


I eat my steak rare and I love it. I know I should probably be more paranoid but I'm not. I think everything has been made far too big of a deal and I just wash it and carry on. Thanks Kelly, as always...


----------



## Aquarius

Muzby said:


> Do you eat rare steak?


Yes I am careful about hygiene and raw meats - my dau has diabetes and if she gets a vomiting bug etc - it really affects her. So I suppose I am more careful than most!!

Yes I love rare steak - but that's not a problem - meat only gets bacteria when it is exposed to air - so searing the outside of the steak kills the bacteria on the outside and the raw inside is fine. That's why ground or minced steak or hamburgers need to be well cooked - because all parts of the meat have been exposed to air.

By the way - Fair do to you all for going to so much trouble, feeding your dogs- in no way am I being critical - just curious!


----------



## Muzby

Robin, I should be dead right now and full of worms if I believed everything they said about raw meat! LOL

Good thing I have selective hearing, eh?


----------



## Muzby

I definitely understand the need for extra care with diabetics.. most of my family is diabetic! I just worry we are -too- cautious normally.. if we disinfect everything, we will be far worse off than getting sick here or there (people with regular immune systems).

Ground can be scary stuff! Never know what's gotten in there, if you don't make it yourself (and know it goes in the fridge/freezer ASAP). We stay away from ground as much as possible if it's not home made. Most people here are feeding whole meats, though, so the risk is lessened.


----------



## rcj1095

Yea, I'd never criticize anybody for being "cautious" either. I'm just getting used to this now. 

Aquarius, you are a good mom. Ask all the questions you want, I did also before I started any of this!!!


----------



## Brodysmom

Brody ate beef kidney for dinner tonight. He wouldn't touch it raw, but I seared it and he ate it. In fact was begging for more so I probably gave him way too much. He'll probably have loose stools now. Bad mommy!! But I just loved watching him eat since he is such a picky eater and he was really enjoying it. Oh well. Time will tell how his little system handles it but he definitely had his weeks worth of organ tonight!!! 

The beef kidney is a weird looking organ though! Lots of big blobs and held together by a big fat blob in the middle. YUCKY. I didn't give him very much of the fat. Mostly just the meaty parts of it. It was full of blood!!!! Talk about RED MEAT!! It's a good thing I'm not a vegetarian. I'd never be able to handle all this raw feeding. HA!

The beef kidney was chopped into very small pieces and frozen. I'm sure I have enough for at least a year. 

Brodysmom


----------



## Muzby

It sure is bloody! Glad he ate it, even if it was a little seared, it's once step closer! 

And how long has it been since he refused to eat? 

Those kidneys are large.. atleast you KNOW you gave him a lot, so if he has poopy problems you won't freak out and toss the raw stuff. LOL


----------



## Brodysmom

Muzby said:


> And how long has it been since he refused to eat?


He had about half an ounce of raw burger mixed with Nupro for his breakfast. Refused to eat anything for the rest of the day. Offered him a chicken back half at about 3pm and again at 6pm and he turned up his nose. So then he ate the kidney, but it was about 12 hours later. Do you think he's eating enough Kelly? 

He looks to be in fine condition, can just feel his ribs but not too skinny. Still lean, but well muscled. He runs around the yard like crazy, it's so funny. Very active. He will play and play and we wear out long before he does. But I still worry he's not eating enough. Is half an ounce of burger and about an ounce of kidney OK for one day?? He weighs about 4.8. I haven't weighed him lately, but I think that's about right.

I guess I'm a worry wart.

Brodysmom


----------



## Muzby

If Brody is 4.8 and you are feeding him at 2% of his weight:

Raw Cat Diet 
Enter These Values	4.8	cat weight in pounds
2.0%	percent of body weight for food
80.0%	percent of meat in food
10.0%	percent of bone in food
5.0%	percent of liver in food
5.0%	percent of non-liver organ in food
Cat Diet	8.6	ounces of meat per week
1.1	ounces of bone per week
0.5	ounces of liver per week
0.5	ounces of non-liver organ per week
10.8	ounces of total food per week

That's only 10.8 oz per week, which is about 1.5oz a day! I'd say, as long as he eats SOMETHING some days and maybe gorges others, he's fine. There are a lot of dogs who prefer to eat a lot one day and skip a meal or two the next.


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> He had about half an ounce of raw burger mixed with Nupro for his breakfast. Refused to eat anything for the rest of the day. Offered him a chicken back half at about 3pm and again at 6pm and he turned up his nose. So then he ate the kidney, but it was about 12 hours later. Do you think he's eating enough Kelly?
> 
> He looks to be in fine condition, can just feel his ribs but not too skinny. Still lean, but well muscled. He runs around the yard like crazy, it's so funny. Very active. He will play and play and we wear out long before he does. But I still worry he's not eating enough. Is half an ounce of burger and about an ounce of kidney OK for one day?? He weighs about 4.8. I haven't weighed him lately, but I think that's about right.
> 
> I guess I'm a worry wart.
> 
> Brodysmom


I know I've said this to you before but I'm so proud of you for sticking with this. Brody really does give you a run for your money in the "eating" dept., doesn't he??? He always looks so healthy and shiny. He has tons of energy. He loves to play. I think he's picture perfect healthy. I'd rather have him an ounce or two lean than heavy, ya know? I'm so glad he liked the kidney. Yea, good thing we aren't vegetarians or we would be struggling with this. I was pretty grossed out by the liver, I must say. I'll be gathering my kidney soon. LOL. The things we do for these babies...:coolwink:


----------



## TLI

Robin, do you sleep girl? :lol: You guys are all doing so good at this stuff. I may start giving mine raw stuff like chicken pieces here and there but not try to do it cold turkey like I did before. It can't hurt any of them to add little things in. Maybe at some point doing it like that they would make the switch over themselves. We'll see, so far mine are doing good on the EVO 95% and ZiwiPeak so I don't wanna mess anything up. 

Tracy, Brody looks great! He is just a small guy. He doesn't look to thin, he just looks little, does that make sense? It's always better to have them a bit on the thin side verses heavy.

Oh, and I'm not sure who eats Beef Kidney, but I love Beef Liver and Chicken Liver, of course cooked, not raw. :lol: I can't do the gizzards because they are too tough! I'll gross you guys out a bit, and also tell you that I like Chicken Hearts too. :lol: Maybe I'm a dog? :lol: :lol:


----------



## Brodysmom

TLI said:


> Tracy, Brody looks great! He is just a small guy. He doesn't look to thin, he just looks little, does that make sense? It's always better to have them a bit on the thin side verses heavy.
> 
> Oh, and I'm not sure who eats Beef Kidney, but I love Beef Liver and Chicken Liver, of course cooked, not raw. :lol: I can't do the gizzards because they are too tough! I'll gross you guys out a bit, and also tell you that I like Chicken Hearts too. :lol: Maybe I'm a dog? :lol: :lol:


My folks LOVE chicken liver and hearts too!!! Not unusual. A little too out there for me though. haha.

I think I remember reading something about kidney pie in a recipe book, so maybe you can cook with it?! I was surprised at how much fat are in them. They are tough too. 

Oh, and Brody had a normal FIRM small poop this morning!! I thought for sure he'd have diarrhea after eating all that kidney!! So glad it agreed with him.  Hopefully he'll eat it next time I offer it. Especially since I have at least a year of it chopped up in my freezer. LOL!

Kelly, thanks for posting that breakdown again. I am going to copy that off so I can refer to it. You're right. That's NOT much food! Guess I need to quit worrying and just look at him objectively. 

Brodysmom


----------



## rcj1095

TLI said:


> Robin, do you sleep girl? :lol: You guys are all doing so good at this stuff. I may start giving mine raw stuff like chicken pieces here and there but not try to do it cold turkey like I did before. It can't hurt any of them to add little things in. Maybe at some point doing it like that they would make the switch over themselves. We'll see, so far mine are doing good on the EVO 95% and ZiwiPeak so I don't wanna mess anything up.
> 
> Tracy, Brody looks great! He is just a small guy. He doesn't look to thin, he just looks little, does that make sense? It's always better to have them a bit on the thin side verses heavy.
> 
> Oh, and I'm not sure who eats Beef Kidney, but I love Beef Liver and Chicken Liver, of course cooked, not raw. :lol: I can't do the gizzards because they are too tough! I'll gross you guys out a bit, and also tell you that I like Chicken Hearts too. :lol: Maybe I'm a dog? :lol: :lol:


Okay that gave me a good laugh!!! Yes, normally I sleep at night. I fell asleep early for me (9:00ish) and by 3 I was up and wide awake. Usually when I grab the laptop and read a few posts, it helps my eyes get tired and I fall back asleep. I love my sleep and I need it!!! 

T, my girlfriend and her hub love all that stuff. They also eat tripe and all kinds of things that I didn't even know existed. You just have a good palette.  Great idea to start adding little bits of raw in. It can only help them and if it's boneless to start, you'll worry less. I'll betcha Chance would have fun chewing on a little wing or drumstick!!! Keep us posted. I let mine make a natural transition and get used to it. They really do love the raw now. Good luck and keep us posted!!!


----------



## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> I know I've said this to you before but I'm so proud of you for sticking with this. Brody really does give you a run for your money in the "eating" dept., doesn't he??? He always looks so healthy and shiny. He has tons of energy. He loves to play. I think he's picture perfect healthy. I'd rather have him an ounce or two lean than heavy, ya know? I'm so glad he liked the kidney. Yea, good thing we aren't vegetarians or we would be struggling with this. I was pretty grossed out by the liver, I must say. I'll be gathering my kidney soon. LOL. The things we do for these babies...:coolwink:


Robin, thank you so much for your support. I couldn't do this without all you girls behind me! 

Brodysmom


----------



## rcj1095

We are in this thing together girl!!!


----------



## TLI

Brodysmom said:


> My folks LOVE chicken liver and hearts too!!! Not unusual. A little too out there for me though. haha.
> 
> I think I remember reading something about kidney pie in a recipe book, so maybe you can cook with it?! I was surprised at how much fat are in them. They are tough too.
> 
> Oh, and Brody had a normal FIRM small poop this morning!! I thought for sure he'd have diarrhea after eating all that kidney!! So glad it agreed with him.  Hopefully he'll eat it next time I offer it. Especially since I have at least a year of it chopped up in my freezer. LOL!
> 
> Brodysmom


Most people say, Ewwwwwwwwww, when they see me eat any of that stuff. :lol: But I can honestly say that I like the taste. Liver should be very tender if it is cooked right, and the only way I've ever eaten the hearts is when I boil a chicken. It is pretty tender too. Give it a try. :wink:

I'll have to look at the recipes for kidney cooking. It doesn't sound good, but neither does liver and hearts. :lol: It might actually taste great!

I think it's so funny to read about everyone's poop talk. I'm so glad I'm not the only one that observes and examines the pups poop. If I see anything, and I mean anything that looks even a tad suspicious, I even smear it across the pad to examine further. :lol:



rcj1095 said:


> Okay that gave me a good laugh!!! Yes, normally I sleep at night. I fell asleep early for me (9:00ish) and by 3 I was up and wide awake. Usually when I grab the laptop and read a few posts, it helps my eyes get tired and I fall back asleep. I love my sleep and I need it!!!
> 
> T, my girlfriend and her hub love all that stuff. They also eat tripe and all kinds of things that I didn't even know existed. You just have a good palette.  Great idea to start adding little bits of raw in. It can only help them and if it's boneless to start, you'll worry less. I'll betcha Chance would have fun chewing on a little wing or drumstick!!! Keep us posted. I let mine make a natural transition and get used to it. They really do love the raw now. Good luck and keep us posted!!!


I'm glad I could give you your morning laugh. :wink: I looked at the time of your post and thought, Man, I was snoozing away at that time of the morning. :lol: But I'm an early riser too. 6/6:30 and my eyes are wide open. 

I can't do tripe. That stuff still has hair on it. ICK! I've only tried it in Menudo. 

Yeah, I think Chance would enjoy the bones the most. Even his teeth are stronger than the girls. The even look bigger. :lol: I'm glad you are doing so well with the raw, I know it’s a great feeling to be feeding your fur-kids things you know are natural and good for them.


----------



## BABY BABS

Ok, girls. I am thinking about dehydrating my liver and pancreas to feed to the pups. Will dehydrating take all the goodness away from it? I thought if I dehydrate it and just give little pieces through out the week as a treat, maybe it'll be easier on their system. (and nicer to handle) What do you guys think?


----------



## Brodysmom

BABY BABS said:


> Ok, girls. I am thinking about dehydrating my liver and pancreas to feed to the pups. Will dehydrating take all the goodness away from it? I thought if I dehydrate it and just give little pieces through out the week as a treat, maybe it'll be easier on their system. (and nicer to handle) What do you guys think?


Are you getting loose stools from the organs? I thought for SURE that Brody would have diarrhea after he ate kidney last night but he had a perfect stool this morning. All that worry for nothing. ha. 

If they can eat the organs in their natural form, raw, that is best for sure. I'd only dehydrate them if you've tried everything else and as a last resort. 

Brodysmom


----------



## carrera

I gave Chicco and Carrera some chicken liver over the weekend-Carrera would not touch it! she didn't even want to each the chicken thigh that it was mixed with. Chicco loved it though. 
Then today I was cutting up my beef heart to put into portioned baggies to freeze and I tried to give each of them a piece, neither of them wanted anything to do with it-not even Chicco, which is very surpising. Eventually he ate because he saw Carrera getting close to his and didn't want her to take it. Carrera did not care if Chicco tried to get hers, she didnt want it at all. I tried putting it on the stove for a sec and she still wanted nothing to do with it. Next time I think I will try mixing it with minced garlic. I know she likes garlic and being that it has a strong smell may help. 
Our stools have been ok, could be a little firmer so I may try to give a little more bone this week and see if that helps. 
About that liver-it is so gross, I would rather cut the beef heart then that any day. The beef heart has the consistency of a tough beef roast, same coloring too-it actually looks like a very red,juicy steak. 

RCJ-about the rabbit question you asked a couple pages back, I plan to hold of on the rabbit for a little bit. My freezer is packed and I want to let them get used to the beef and chicken combo for now.


----------



## rcj1095

carrera said:


> I gave Chicco and Carrera some chicken liver over the weekend-Carrera would not touch it! she didn't even want to each the chicken thigh that it was mixed with. Chicco loved it though.
> Then today I was cutting up my beef heart to put into portioned baggies to freeze and I tried to give each of them a piece, neither of them wanted anything to do with it-not even Chicco, which is very surpising. Eventually he ate because he saw Carrera getting close to his and didn't want her to take it. Carrera did not care if Chicco tried to get hers, she didnt want it at all. I tried putting it on the stove for a sec and she still wanted nothing to do with it. Next time I think I will try mixing it with minced garlic. I know she likes garlic and being that it has a strong smell may help.
> Our stools have been ok, could be a little firmer so I may try to give a little more bone this week and see if that helps.
> About that liver-it is so gross, I would rather cut the beef heart then that any day. The beef heart has the consistency of a tough beef roast, same coloring too-it actually looks like a very red,juicy steak.
> 
> RCJ-about the rabbit question you asked a couple pages back, I plan to hold of on the rabbit for a little bit. My freezer is packed and I want to let them get used to the beef and chicken combo for now.


Okay, mine are doing amazing on the chicken, beef liver and they had a bit of steak. I think I'll stick with this for now. They go nutso over the chicken gizzards, it's so funny. I gave them a medallion with a little bit of gizzard and you should have seen them. So far, so good!!! Let me know when you try the rabbit, okay? I'd love to do the park in Stow also. September sound good? I'll get Lin to go to. I'm dying to meet her babies!!!


----------



## carrera

Sounds good, any weekend besides labor day. It would have to be a Saturday as I am not free on Sundays. Just PM me


----------



## rcj1095

carrera said:


> Sounds good, any weekend besides labor day. It would have to be a Saturday as I am not free on Sundays. Just PM me


K Monica, sure will. We'll do a Saturday later in the month!!! We'll have such fun!!!

My babies are having chicken legs and gizzards for dinner tonight. What's everybody else having???


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## carrera

1/2 lamb medallion and part of a chicken thigh, no bone


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## Brodysmom

Brody ate nothing for breakfast. Had a kona chip at mid day. I offered him a chicken back for supper and he refused to eat it. 

We had grilled chicken so I finally caved in and gave him a few pieces of it. He gulped it down like he was starving. I guess I'm a bad mom. Should have held out and made him go to bed hungry and then tried the raw chicken tomorrow, but I knew he was hungry.



Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Brody ate nothing for breakfast. Had a kona chip at mid day. I offered him a chicken back for supper and he refused to eat it.
> 
> We had grilled chicken so I finally caved in and gave him a few pieces of it. He gulped it down like he was starving. I guess I'm a bad mom. Should have held out and made him go to bed hungry and then tried the raw chicken tomorrow, but I knew he was hungry.
> 
> 
> 
> Brodysmom


That darn finicky boy!!! So he loves the raw at times but on his terms??? Or does he just love the beef more than the chicken? That's what it seems like. He'll come around. When I hear their tummies growling, it makes me crazy too. You're a good Mommy. You just want his tummy full. Have you tried the chicken gizzards? Mine go nutso over them. They had a huge brawl today after dinner. Chloe has a small piece still hanging out of her mouth and the other three ALL went for it!!! Crazy, huh???


----------



## Brodysmom

Robin, what I would give for a brawl over food right now!!! Brody just wanted cooked chicken instead of raw tonight, I guess. Who knows! But now I'm worried that he's not getting enough calcium. He needs to have some bone. He will eat raw chicken diced up or raw beef diced up, and he eats seared liver/kidney, but getting him to eat the bones is a chore. I don't understand WHY because he loves to chew and will chew on a bully stick for hours and just now had a texas toothpick he carried around and chewed on for a LONG time. So it's not that he doesn't want to chew. 

I just feel really discouraged. Everyone seems like they just put down a raw chicken thigh or whatever and their dogs happily eat it. Why do I have to have the one who doesn't want it????? He drives me CRAZY. 

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Robin, what I would give for a brawl over food right now!!! Brody just wanted cooked chicken instead of raw tonight, I guess. Who knows! But now I'm worried that he's not getting enough calcium. He needs to have some bone. He will eat raw chicken diced up or raw beef diced up, and he eats seared liver/kidney, but getting him to eat the bones is a chore. I don't understand WHY because he loves to chew and will chew on a bully stick for hours and just now had a texas toothpick he carried around and chewed on for a LONG time. So it's not that he doesn't want to chew.
> 
> I just feel really discouraged. Everyone seems like they just put down a raw chicken thigh or whatever and their dogs happily eat it. Why do I have to have the one who doesn't want it????? He drives me CRAZY.
> 
> Brodysmom



Oh girl, hang in. You've come this far. How about a beef bone??? Maybe a different flavor or even rabbit? He's been doing this long enough that his system should be able to take it, right? I don't want you to give up cuz you've had success at points with this. Remember, he's healthy and very fit and he's not going to starve to death. Are the medallions out completely??? Rib bones might get his attention. We will survive this!!! Yea, mine are having full blown fights at times. They are pretty good but the gizzard hanging out of Chloe's mouth was just "too" tempting, I guess.

BTW, Chloe takes much longer to chew a kona chip, a bone, anything. The others get thru it much quicker. Think we might have a dental issue or something. Her last check everything was fine but she takes so much longer to chew her food than the others...


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## TashaZ

Since feeding raw Pebbles has been picky too. Sometimes she'll eat everything in her bowl so quickly! And other times she'll look at it and then look at me and walk off like "i'm not eating that you crazy woman"! so then i cook it and she'll eat it. Another time i'll cook it and she won't eat it but i put down raw and she will..... weird! Shadow on the other hand will eat anything in her bowl any time of the day hehee!

I find Pebbles also would rather eat whats on my plate so i put her food on my plate and pretend to be eating it then hand it to her and she will eat it because she's getting "mums food". But i only do that if she's not eaten for awhile because i don't want her int he habbit of begging and not eating out of her own bowl.

Man these dogs are funny!!


----------



## BABY BABS

Brody's mom, don't get frustrated. Even if you have to cook something a little for him, it's still better than kibble. He's doing pretty good with the whole raw eating. I've found that Babs sometimes doesn't want her meal either. I think I'm offering her too much food. It's such a small amount that they seem to need and that's from the girl with a 7 and a 13 lb chi. I can't even imagine how little a 4lb chi would need. Also, I don't know if you've had any issues with this but I find that different meals weigh differently. So, I'm still weighing things, because an ounce of liver looks alot different that an ounce of bone or chicken meat. I first noticed the difference when I was cutting up and bagging the liver and pancreas that I got. Liver is about 2 to 1 than the pancreas. 

I'm not having total troubles with feeding the girls liver. My biggest problem is that I'm not the only one who prepares meals for them. I believe that everyone in the household should feed them so that everyone is pack leader as well as, if something happens to me, I wouldn't want them to think they have to wait for me to come home to eat. I've seen dogs like that. So, anyways, my other "chi chefs" tend to over do their meals and then we have tummy troubles. But I will continue to train the chefs and leave the liver raw.

Has anybody tried fish yet? I work with a girl who feeds her german sheps raw. A little different from what we all seem to be doing, but really close. She gives her dogs canned mackeral. I'm thinking that's got to be cooked right? I did buy a can and they each got a forkful or two last night. They weren't sure at first but then the cat came along. She was begging for it, so they figured it couldn't be all bad. I'll try it again in a few days.

That's what Brody's missing. A meal is always better with good company. He needs a friend. lol


----------



## Muzby

Brody is doing well! Don't worry, you would know if he was feeling bad from not eating enough. Cooked food is still better than kibble! So if he has a half cooked, half raw diet.. well, good for him!

I would not offer ONLY dehydrated liver on a fully raw diet, they will be missing important stuff! Have you considered cutting the liver/organ into meal sized pieces and bagging them on at a time? That's kind of fool proof. 

Betty had canned tripe for dinner tonight. YUM YUM (as mommy gags, but it is WAY BETTER than fresh raw tripe)


----------



## rcj1095

BABY BABS said:


> Brody's mom, don't get frustrated. Even if you have to cook something a little for him, it's still better than kibble. He's doing pretty good with the whole raw eating. I've found that Babs sometimes doesn't want her meal either. I think I'm offering her too much food. It's such a small amount that they seem to need and that's from the girl with a 7 and a 13 lb chi. I can't even imagine how little a 4lb chi would need. Also, I don't know if you've had any issues with this but I find that different meals weigh differently. So, I'm still weighing things, because an ounce of liver looks alot different that an ounce of bone or chicken meat. I first noticed the difference when I was cutting up and bagging the liver and pancreas that I got. Liver is about 2 to 1 than the pancreas.
> 
> I'm not having total troubles with feeding the girls liver. My biggest problem is that I'm not the only one who prepares meals for them. I believe that everyone in the household should feed them so that everyone is pack leader as well as, if something happens to me, I wouldn't want them to think they have to wait for me to come home to eat. I've seen dogs like that. So, anyways, my other "chi chefs" tend to over do their meals and then we have tummy troubles. But I will continue to train the chefs and leave the liver raw.
> 
> Has anybody tried fish yet? I work with a girl who feeds her german sheps raw. A little different from what we all seem to be doing, but really close. She gives her dogs canned mackeral. I'm thinking that's got to be cooked right? I did buy a can and they each got a forkful or two last night. They weren't sure at first but then the cat came along. She was begging for it, so they figured it couldn't be all bad. I'll try it again in a few days.
> 
> That's what Brody's missing. A meal is always better with good company. He needs a friend. lol


Great advice. I agree. Brody needs a sister. Kelly has given hers mackeral, I believe and they love it. I think that's what I read. I haven't weighed the food yet but I eyeball it. I'm feeding a 2.6 lb., 3.4 lb., 4 lb., and 9 lb. It's so hard to tell. Mine always seem so hungry and they eat it so fast. I know it's cuz they love it but I feel bad. Like they need more, ya know? I guess it's just getting used to something different. They sure do love it.


----------



## Brodysmom

I'm not giving up!! I will stick with this if it kills me. HA HA. I think I need to get a scale and start weighing things. Then I will know exactly what he's eating, but I'm afraid that might make me even more obsessive. I think if I bought a scale though, it might reassure me that he's getting enough because he is in good body weight. 

I think I'll try the mackerel. He's had several protein sources so it shouldn't upset his tummy. 

Oh, and Brody's NOT getting a sister anytime soon. He drives me crazy, what do ya think TWO of him would do?! Oh my... cart me off to the funny farm. HA HA. 

Thanks guys!!! I will keep you posted.

Brodysmom


----------



## Zethsmommy

Zeth and Sandy love fish. I've only given them broiled fish though. 
Zeth's favorite of all the raw foods so far is frozen Chicken gizzards and hearts. He also prefers his liver bits frozen. I guess to him it's easier to pick it up frozen rather than chase a slimy piece of meat around in his bowl.
Both will eat raw egg as well as the shell but what a mess they make dragging egg goo all over instead of just slurping it down. Next time I'm scrambbling the egg and shell first. 

Last night they each got a little bit of raw chop meat as I was making burgers for dinner. Lesson learned, don't feed dogs chopmeat while making burgers for the family. OMG the two dogs wouldn't get off of me. You'd have thought I was feeding them Caviar or something. 
Zeth seems to be very hungry on some days and other days he'll just pick at it. 

He's doing fine and Poops are perfect.


----------



## TLI

Oh come on Tracy, you need 4 of them. :wink: :lol:


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## Brodysmom

TLI said:


> Oh come on Tracy, you need 4 of them. :wink: :lol:


Seriously.... I don't know HOW you guys do it!!! My gosh! Just one drives me nuts sometimes. 

This morning was a little better. He ate some burger and a couple pieces of diced chicken with his Nupro. Now if he'll just eat the thawed chicken wing I have in the fridge for dinner I'd be sooooooooooooo happy!!

Brodysmom


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## carrera

Brody's mom, why don't you try rubbing his meals with a little bit of minced garlic? I did that with their liver this morning and cooked it for 20 seconds on each side, Carrera showed more interest in that, and Chicco gobbled it up. 

What your weighing/feeding- do you go off of the Natures Variety feeding guide? I know they list it in ounces and instead of giving the amount of medallion do you give that same amount of chicken?

Their fur has gotten so much nicer since we started this, they already had great ur but Carrera's especially is soo soft!


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## Brodysmom

carrera said:


> Brody's mom, why don't you try rubbing his meals with a little bit of minced garlic? I did that with their liver this morning and cooked it for 20 seconds on each side, Carrera showed more interest in that, and Chicco gobbled it up.
> 
> What your weighing/feeding- do you go off of the Natures Variety feeding guide? I know they list it in ounces and instead of giving the amount of medallion do you give that same amount of chicken?
> 
> Their fur has gotten so much nicer since we started this, they already had great ur but Carrera's especially is soo soft!


Thanks for reminding me about garlic. I will get some cloves. I only have garlic powder and Brody wasn't too impressed. What else is new, right?! ha! 

I'm going off the 2% of body weight table so he should get just over 1.5 ounces a day. Not very much. I am eyeballing it, but not sure I am getting it exactly right so I probably need to buy a scale.

I'm so happy that you're having such good success!! YAY!!! Keep up the good work!

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Okay girls, especially you Monica, Pet Supplies Plus (Manchester Rd.) not sure if it's everywhere or not, is having a major sale on the medallions. I still supplement them with that when I can't cut into one more piece of raw meat or bone, LOL. They have the chicken medallions down to 8 bucks a bag, the venison is 10, the lamb is 9, the beef is 9. I used my buy one get one free coupon, which expires tomorrow and got two bags of 3 lb. chicken medallions for 8 bucks. They also let me use it more than once (they like the "littles") and I got the lamb and venison for 10 bucks. Can't beat those prices!!!

Lisa, the organic chicken medallions are 12 bucks here for a 3 lb. bag. Wish I could ship them to you!!!

Also, mine love the chicken and beef carvers for a treat. They are normally 14 bucks a bag and they have 6 bucks off and a coupon for 2 bucks so each bag cost me 6 bucks!!!

WooHoo I love a good sale!!!


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Don't know if anyone seen me say it in my other thread.... but Bailey & Kahlua both love raw chicken at room temp and still the raw meatballs... so where do we go from here?  Do I just keep giving them those a few times a week and in a few weeks, try something new?


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## Brodysmom

Ok - you guys.... *drumroll* I have SUCCESS!!!! At last! Can you even believe it! He ate by himself!!

I used Monica's suggestion (thank you thank you) and put just a tiny bit of garlic on the raw chicken wing and Brody LOVED it. He didn't even want me to hold it for him. He ate it by himself! On a towel!! Woo HOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I AM SO HAPPY I could just bust. I grabbed the camera so I could share this moment with everyone .....


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

rcj1095 said:


> Lisa, the organic chicken medallions are 12 bucks here for a 3 lb. bag. Wish I could ship them to you!!!
> 
> WooHoo I love a good sale!!!


Wow! Robin, that is an amazing price! I wish you could send them to me too! I don't use the medallions anymore, but I l do keep a couple bags in the freezer... just in case. I think Lila MIGHT have been allergic to the medallions. I haven't given the chi's a medallion since, I think August 3rd for breakfast, and when I did Lila threw it up, which she has never done before. Plus she has not had any reactions since I stopped the NV. Yea!!
Anyways, good find girl! I would totally stock up! That is sooo cheap!!



*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> Don't know if anyone seen me say it in my other thread.... but Bailey & Kahlua both love raw chicken at room temp and still the raw meatballs... so where do we go from here?  Do I just keep giving them those a few times a week and in a few weeks, try something new?


That's great Kim! 



Brodysmom said:


> Ok - you guys.... *drumroll* I have SUCCESS!!!! At last! Can you even believe it! He ate by himself!!
> 
> I used Monica's suggestion (thank you thank you) and put just a tiny bit of garlic on the raw chicken wing and Brody LOVED it. He didn't even want me to hold it for him. He ate it by himself! On a towel!! Woo HOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I AM SO HAPPY I could just bust. I grabbed the camera so I could share this moment with everyone .....


Yea Brody!!! Tracy I am sooo happy for you, and Brody. The garlic did the trick, huh? Great tip Monica! 
I love seeing the pics of Brody chomping away on his meaty bone!


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## rcj1095

Tracy, I got goosebumps reading this!!! I think we all share in the success of Brody "eating"!!! Great tip Monica. I'll remember that, a bit of garlic, huh??? Please keep sharing every second! Brody looks so darn cute eating that. I just love him so much Tracy!!! Congrats! 

Lisa, good girl. If I thought any of mine had reactions I would be hesitant to use it.

Kim, okay, I started slow. Chicken for 3 or 4 weeks is perfect!!! Do the bone in three times a week if you can. If not, use chicken as one meal a day and use kibble as the other. That's how I started. You don't have to worry about the organs or anything else for a while until they are really used to it!!! Did they just eat the chicken breast boneless?


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

YAY Brody!!!! 

Robin, yeah, it was just some small pieces of small boneless/skinless chicken. I was making Rob dinner and I thought I'd offer a little to them again. I knew Kahlua would eat it, wasn't sure about Bailey... but he had it gone before Kahlua! 

I will offer them a leg tomorrow or Thursday, thanks!!


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## TLI

Awwwww, Brody looks SO sweet eating that! Good baby boy! Way to go eating your foodies (yes, I'm a nerd, I call their food, foodies, lol) for Mama!


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## rcj1095

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> YAY Brody!!!!
> 
> Robin, yeah, it was just some small pieces of small boneless/skinless chicken. I was making Rob dinner and I thought I'd offer a little to them again. I knew Kahlua would eat it, wasn't sure about Bailey... but he had it gone before Kahlua!
> 
> I will offer them a leg tomorrow or Thursday, thanks!!


Kim, slow and steady. That's what I've learned. It took Lily 2 weeks to eat the medallion. You should see her eat a chicken gizzard now. It's hilarious!!! Just be patient, but I can't wait to hear how they like the chicken with the bones!!!


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## Brodysmom

Kim - a chicken leg might be too much for them! For their first raw chicken bone-in meal I'd use a wing, either the drum part or the middle part which has the two bones in it. Or you can cut up a cornish hen and use the legs from that or the breast. The hen breast has a soft bone in it that is perfect for dogs not used to bones. I can't wait to see what they think!! I love that it's so healthy and good for them. 

Brodysmom


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## BABY BABS

Tracy, there is somethings good about having two. #1 is they bug eachother first and only when they get bored with that do they come find you #2 if you can get one to do it, the other one will try it #3 since they clean eachothers ears, yours don't seem to be targeted as often lol


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## carrera

thanks for the heads up about the medallion sale- i have to make myself get out there even though I have a showing on the house tomorrow and still have plenty of cleaning to do-ah!
brody's mom-glad the garlic worked, woo hoo!
Monica


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Thanks for the info Tracey, we will probably give them a wing each tonight! 

Bailey refuses the medallions, just plain refuses and will go all day long with out eating! Kahlua will scarf anything we have come to find out. lol I was thinking, what about a little garlic on the medallion? I seen that it worked for Brody... what kind do I use and how much? I read somewhere that garlic can make a dog sick if given too much.


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## Brodysmom

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> Thanks for the info Tracey, we will probably give them a wing each tonight!
> 
> Bailey refuses the medallions, just plain refuses and will go all day long with out eating! Kahlua will scarf anything we have come to find out. lol I was thinking, what about a little garlic on the medallion? I seen that it worked for Brody... what kind do I use and how much? I read somewhere that garlic can make a dog sick if given too much.


Play it by ear on the chicken wings. If Kahlua is a snarfer, you don't want her to try and swallow the whole thing! Make sure she sits down and chews on it and doesn't just gulp it. If she does, you'll have to go to bigger pieces like a leg. 

I didn't have any fresh garlic, so I just used a tiny sprinkle of garlic powder I had in the spice cabinet. NOT garlic salt. Just the powder. And just a few little grains of it, not a big shake.

Let us know how it goes! I haven't been to the store and need to go, so I just took out a NV beef medallion for Brody's dinner. He doesn't like them but maybe he will eat it with a little garlic. We will see!

brodysmom


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

We have fresh minced garlic in a jar in our fridge, how much of that do you think I should give him? Thanks for the info about gulping, Kahlua is definitely a gulper... but we will see about the chicken. We will make sure they are fed in their crates, so they (Bailey) don't feel that the other one is going to swipe it from them. That might ease some tension! I hope they eat well, well ok... Kahlua will... but I really want them both on a good source of raw for a meal and for now, their Wellness too.

Bailey's coat is so luxurious, lots of shine and beautiful coloring all through it, (so much prettier the my camera can capture).... I WANT Kahlua's coat to be the same!!! Her coat is getting a little shine to it, but its in no way what Bailey's is. I hope to change that!


----------



## Brodysmom

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> We have fresh minced garlic in a jar in our fridge, how much of that do you think I should give him? Thanks for the info about gulping, Kahlua is definitely a gulper... but we will see about the chicken. We will make sure they are fed in their crates, so they (Bailey) don't feel that the other one is going to swipe it from them. That might ease some tension! I hope they eat well, well ok... Kahlua will... but I really want them both on a good source of raw for a meal and for now, their Wellness too.
> 
> Bailey's coat is so luxurious, lots of shine and beautiful coloring all through it.... I WANT Kahlua's coat to be the same!!! Her coat is getting a little shine to it, but its in no way what Bailey's is. I hope to change that!


Good idea about feeding them separately so that Kahlua doesn't feel the need to hurry up and get it down before Bailey comes over and steals it. LIKE HE WOULD. ha ha. Just go easy on the minced garlic. Like dip your finger in it and just rub it over the chicken. It's just for the smell and a little taste. Not a lot.

Brodysmom


----------



## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Got it! Thanks!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Okay I am thinking Lily (not Lila) just might be allergic to chicken. She seems to always get these brownish/purplish spots on her inside thigh creases. They would come and go. Vet said allergies 
I continued to feed her a chicken based food, kibble & NV raw. Now that she is only on raw chicken it seems to have gotten worse. She now is licking and biting at her feet a lot and the brownish/ purplish looking spots aren't going away. It sort of looks like bruises. Weird.
Could she be allergic to the chicken? Now the concentration of chicken is higher then the kibble & NV, so she is having a worse re-action. 
I'm going to change her to raw turkey tonight. Will that be okay? I mean if you are allergic to chicken that doesn't mean you are allergic to all birds like turkey, right?


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## Brodysmom

I bet she could be allergic to the chicken! You're right, turkey is a different protein, but I wonder if you could go to beef which is not in the same family? I'd want a real clear delineation so that I could pinpoint the allergy. But if you don't have any beef, you could try the turkey. Let us know. 

Wow, if she is allergic to chicken, that would sure be easy to delete from the diet! Would be nice to know what the culprit is too.

brodysmom


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Yeah, I'm hoping chicken is what she is allergic to. Not that I want her to be allergic to something, but trying to figure it out is so hard. 
I'm still not sure what the heck Lila is allergic to, but after I stopped the NV medallions she hasn't had a reaction since. Knock on wood!

I get one chi's allergic reaction to stop and another chi starts up. Just my luck. 

I do have some steak for them in the freezer, but I was scared to give it to them to soon. Do you think I should just give them some for dinner, or do I introduce it slowly?They are so darn sensitive.


----------



## rcj1095

Oh Lisa, I would guess that has to be it??? I wouldn't like those spots a bit. Chicken has been the common denominator in all her breakouts, right? I also use the lamb, beef and rabbit medallions, although Lily will only eat the chicken. Have you tried other meats yet? I'd try turkey, it is different. Please keep us posted on how she's doing. How frustrating!!!

Tracy, let us know if Brody eats it with the garlic.

Kim, keep us posted as to if they both eat it tonight!!!


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Yeah Robin chicken is the only meat she eats. Well except for the rabbit NV kibble, but she doesn't get that anymore. Plus this has been going on a long time. Ever since she was eating Karma, which is chicken. I figured it was the grain, but then I switched her to Nv which has no grains, and still the same thing. Now that she is getting straight raw chicken, it has gotten worse. It has to be the chicken.


----------



## Jessica

I just gave Shiloh her first raw chicken medallion about an hour and a half ago! She loved it and licked her bowl clean. She did throw up a little bit just now. Is that normal? She seems fine. I guess her tummy just isn't used to the raw food yet.


----------



## TLI

Jessica, Gia threw up after eating it as well. Not sure what that's all about. If she ate it real fast it could be that she just didn't have it all down right. Gia does that. She eats fast so she has to have something with a substance to it or it will come right back up. 

Lisa, I feel your frustrations. Lexie has allergies too, and I believe it's Chicken. But I also believe she has trouble processing any grains at all, including potatoes. Hope you find something that works. Best wishes.


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## rcj1095

Jess, yea Coop threw up three days in a row after eating them. I think he inhaled them so fast and his body just had to get used to it. Now, he has no problems. Keep us posted honey and good luck!!!

Lisa, please let us know how they do. I am so curious about this. This allergy stuff has to just "kill" ya. It has to be the chicken.

T - you're kidding, even potatoes??? Are you kidding??? Keep us updated girl. Good lord. What stress!!!


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## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> Tracy, let us know if Brody eats it with the garlic.


I gave Brody a NV beef medallion for dinner and he wouldn't eat it. Put a little garlic on it. Nope. Seared it a little. No way. I had a pork chop in the fridge so I cut off a piece of that and he ate that fine. Darn picky boy. 

I don't want to give him chicken wings every day. Way too much bone. I wanted to alternate between the medallions and the chicken parts. Guess I'll have to go to the store tomorrow and get another cornish hen and work through that again. At least he gets a variety of bone that way. I think a plain chicken wing is fine once in awhile but I wouldn't want to feed it every day.

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Tracy, you poor thing. You must go thru hell. I think the cornish hen is the way to go. He likes the steak too, right??? Just stick with what he likes and don't worry about the rest. He also likes the liver (the organ he needs). You're doing fine. We are going to get thru this together!!! Okay???


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## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> Tracy, you poor thing. You must go thru hell. I think the cornish hen is the way to go. He likes the steak too, right??? Just stick with what he likes and don't worry about the rest. He also likes the liver (the organ he needs). You're doing fine. We are going to get thru this together!!! Okay???


Thanks Robin. You always know the right thing to say!!! I hate to keep complaining all the time. I have a healthy boy who is the love of my life and an absolute JOY, I should feel lucky!!! I just wish he would eat. That's all.:dontknow:


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## TLI

Robin, we aren't sure if Lexie is actually allergic to potatoes, or just has a hard time processing them. But I'm positive that she is allergic to Chicken which is partly my fault because that has been her main source of protein since she was a puppy. If you feed them one protein for a long time they can develop allergies to it. It doesn't happen to all pups, and doesn't affect each one the same. It does however drive Lexie over the edge. She was scratching so much that she didn't even rest well at night. I would wake up many times a night to her scratching. It got to where my Mom and I traded off holding her all day long to "rub" her owies instead of her diggin' at them. They get what is called hot spots and will scratch them raw if they are left alone to do so. She had one allergy injection and it helped a lot, but they said because of her size they would only give it to her 4 times a year. They didn't want to be responsible for giving it to her too often and causing problems. It was some kind of steroid which is a pretty potent drug even for humans. I would rather get to the bottom of the allergy than treat it with drugs. I feel that is my responsibility to her, ya know? It broke my heart to watch her suffer. She has improved so much in just the short time that we've been on ZiwiPeak and EVO 95% canned. And the good thing is that they all love the taste too. So right now I'm happy to report that everyone is doing very well on the new diet.

When Jade hurt her leg my Vet referred me to an Ortho specialist because they don't do surgery (in case she broke it) at their office. The Vet that we saw was the most awesome guy I've ever met. He explained everything to me down to a T. He went as far as to show me where breaks usually occur, how to test for it, and what to do for future sprains. He knew more about Chihuahua's than any Vet I have been too. I was so happy when I left there. I am switching all 4 pups to him since he does regular Vet care as well. We talked about food and canine diets, and to my surprise he advocates raw feeding and grain free diets. He does sell all of the SD stuff, but he does not push it at all. He said that while Canines are Omnivores, you don't see them eating rice and chewing lettuce in the wild. :lol: He said that they will open the gut of their prey because that's where they get all of the vitamins and minerals, then they'll eat the meat, bones, etc. etc. So he said it's very common to see dogs that have trouble processing grains of any kind, including potatoes. Very informative conversation. I was surprised that he spent SO much time talking to me, but didn't charge me for it. The Vets I have seen come in and do what you are there for, but don't seem to excited to discuss anything with you that much. This guy far exceeded my expectations. He seems to go more the Holistic approach to many things, which I like. We also went over my fear of giving them too much protein with a raw/dehydrated raw diet. He said that they eat so little of it, and as long as they are drinking lots of water it should be fine. 

I'll shut up now. :lol:


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## TLI

Tracy, it is okay to complain. We know that them eating well is their livelihood. We want them to get the best nutrition possible. I can totally relate to your frustrations, because I have some super picky babies too. L & C being the worst of the 4. And it is VERY hard to find things they'll eat, and then you worry, worry, worry. So never feel bad about voicing your concerns. There will always be others that understand where you are coming from.


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## Brodysmom

T- that vet sounds like a GEM! Lucky you for stumbling upon him.  And thanks for the kind words. It feels good to know I'm not alone!! 

Keep us posted on everything! This diet thing is just fascinating to me. I love reading about everyone's dogs and how they are doing. It's become a bit of an obsession I'm afraid. ha. 

Brodysmom



Brodysmom


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom *

Bailey & Kahlua are eating their chicken dinner, pics to come later. I couldn't find any wings at Meijer tonight, but I'll get some from Food Town probably tomorrow. 

Tonight is just boneless/skinless chicken strips.


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## TLI

Brodysmom said:


> T- that vet sounds like a GEM! Lucky you for stumbling upon him.  And thanks for the kind words. It feels good to know I'm not alone!!
> 
> Keep us posted on everything! This diet thing is just fascinating to me. I love reading about everyone's dogs and how they are doing. It's become a bit of an obsession I'm afraid. ha.
> 
> Brodysmom
> 
> 
> 
> Brodysmom


When I left there I was just so happy! I was so sick of going to Vets that only did what they had too. They never seemed over enthused at all. Made me wonder why or how they became Vets. If you spend all that time in school, surely the energy and excitement you have for animals would show in your work, right? Up until now I wasn't finding that. 

I agree about their diet being fascinating. Nothing feels better than knowing you are feeding them the best their is, and that they are actually happy to eat it.


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## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Thanks Robin. You always know the right thing to say!!! I hate to keep complaining all the time. I have a healthy boy who is the love of my life and an absolute JOY, I should feel lucky!!! I just wish he would eat. That's all.:dontknow:


Tracy, you don't complain. EVER!!! You are simply concerned about his welfare and eating is most of that. We know he is the love of your life and you are grateful and lucky and you act that way. Don't be crazy honey, we really will get thru this together Tracy and I'm not kidding. He's just fussy. My youngest daughter is the biggest challenge of my life as far as eating. You should hear my stories!!! It'll be okay girl. Love ya.


TLI said:


> Robin, we aren't sure if Lexie is actually allergic to potatoes, or just has a hard time processing them. But I'm positive that she is allergic to Chicken which is partly my fault because that has been her main source of protein since she was a puppy. If you feed them one protein for a long time they can develop allergies to it. It doesn't happen to all pups, and doesn't affect each one the same. It does however drive Lexie over the edge. She was scratching so much that she didn't even rest well at night. I would wake up many times a night to her scratching. It got to where my Mom and I traded off holding her all day long to "rub" her owies instead of her diggin' at them. They get what is called hot spots and will scratch them raw if they are left alone to do so. She had one allergy injection and it helped a lot, but they said because of her size they would only give it to her 4 times a year. They didn't want to be responsible for giving it to her too often and causing problems. It was some kind of steroid which is a pretty potent drug even for humans. I would rather get to the bottom of the allergy than treat it with drugs. I feel that is my responsibility to her, ya know? It broke my heart to watch her suffer. She has improved so much in just the short time that we've been on ZiwiPeak and EVO 95% canned. And the good thing is that they all love the taste too. So right now I'm happy to report that everyone is doing very well on the new diet.
> 
> When Jade hurt her leg my Vet referred me to an Ortho specialist because they don't do surgery (in case she broke it) at their office. The Vet that we saw was the most awesome guy I've ever met. He explained everything to me down to a T. He went as far as to show me where breaks usually occur, how to test for it, and what to do for future sprains. He knew more about Chihuahua's than any Vet I have been too. I was so happy when I left there. I am switching all 4 pups to him since he does regular Vet care as well. We talked about food and canine diets, and to my surprise he advocates raw feeding and grain free diets. He does sell all of the SD stuff, but he does not push it at all. He said that while Canines are Omnivores, you don't see them eating rice and chewing lettuce in the wild. :lol: He said that they will open the gut of their prey because that's where they get all of the vitamins and minerals, then they'll eat the meat, bones, etc. etc. So he said it's very common to see dogs that have trouble processing grains of any kind, including potatoes. Very informative conversation. I was surprised that he spent SO much time talking to me, but didn't charge me for it. The Vets I have seen come in and do what you are there for, but don't seem to excited to discuss anything with you that much. This guy far exceeded my expectations. He seems to go more the Holistic approach to many things, which I like. We also went over my fear of giving them too much protein with a raw/dehydrated raw diet. He said that they eat so little of it, and as long as they are drinking lots of water it should be fine.
> 
> I'll shut up now. :lol:


T, don't shut up. I like to know what's going on with all of "our" babies. How frustrating for you. That itching and those hot spots would kill me. I felt so bad for Coco when she was digging at her feet. It just feels so helpless. Please keep us posted and your new vet sounds "awesome". That is exactly the kind of vet I would give my money too. Please keep us posted!!! I mean it, I want to know.


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## rcj1095

*Bailey's Mommy* said:


> Bailey & Kahlua are eating their chicken dinner, pics to come later. I couldn't find any wings at Meijer tonight, but I'll get some from Food Town probably tomorrow.
> 
> Tonight is just boneless/skinless chicken strips.


Sounds good to me!!! Pics please!!!


----------



## Jessica

Ok! Thanks girls... I'll give her a few days.


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## Muzby

YAY BRODY! Tracy, I knew that if you persevered, he would give in! LOL

It does become quite the obsession, eh? Wait until you're in a pet store and you're trying to convince people to "PUT THE KIBBLE DOWN!".  You'll get there.

I am so proud of all of you guys! Bailey and Kahlua, YAY YOU! And Shi, I hope she continues to improve and enjoy her meat. YUM YUM

I am excited for ANYONE to try rabbit and letme know how it goes over.. as I've said many times.. betty looooves rabbit


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## rcj1095

Muzby said:


> YAY BRODY! Tracy, I knew that if you persevered, he would give in! LOL
> 
> It does become quite the obsession, eh? Wait until you're in a pet store and you're trying to convince people to "PUT THE KIBBLE DOWN!".  You'll get there.
> 
> I am so proud of all of you guys! Bailey and Kahlua, YAY YOU! And Shi, I hope she continues to improve and enjoy her meat. YUM YUM
> 
> I am excited for ANYONE to try rabbit and letme know how it goes over.. as I've said many times.. betty looooves rabbit


Do I see a siggy??? I LOVE IT!!!


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

I didn't have the chance to get to the store to buy the turkey, so I had to use what I had here which was steak and ground beef. The steak was still frozen so I used the ground beef.
Lola, Lila, and Maxx all had the chicken breast with bits of ground beef. I wanted to try and introduce them slowly to the beef. 

Okay, for Lily I gave her some bits of ground beef, and I gave her some of her NV rabbit kibble. I didn't want to give any kibble, and they haven't had any for a while now, but I needed to give her something besides chicken to eat with her ground beef. Was that bad?
They LOVED the beef!


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## Zethsmommy

I keep reading everyones success and it's been great.
Last night was the first time I had trouble and kinda got scared watching Zeth eat. I think somehow I must have messed up. 
He's been getting mostly chicken thigh's or pieces of chicken that I cut off for him along with an occasional piece of pork, beef, liver, kidney, cooked fish, NV medallions chicken and lamb, chicken gizzards and hearts. He also gets 1/2 teaspoon of yogurt three times a week. 
The problem I've been having is Zeth prefers to gorge himself some days and will steal Sandy's bone piece the minute Sandy looks away. His poops on the days I don't feed him bone are kinda squishy and long. He will also poo 2 or 3 times a day if I don't feed him bone. Sandy's poo are also squishy if no bone is given.

I have no issues feeding both dogs together, neither get agressive and sandy could care less if Zeth eats out of her area. Somedays they will stand side by side or muzzle to muzzle and chew together. 
I was trying to cut down to bone 3 days a week but with squishy poo I'm not sure.

The other problem was last night. Zeth got his first Chicken leg with bone in. I cut some of the meat off so it wasn't so big. He loved it but when he started eating the bone little splinters of bone started flying. These where small sharp pieces. At one point Zeth started choking and hacked up a little piece of bone that flew across the kitchen floor. Man I got so scared and really stood over him and picked up the little flecks of bone pieces and tossed them. He gave me the dirty eye when I took his bone pieces away. It was just to scary for me and I didn't want him choking on them. Should I grind the bone for him. 
He hasn't had any problem eating wings or thighs and the bone splintering like the legs did last night.

What am I doing wrong???? Do they need bone everyday???? 
The two of them each have the pearlyist white teeth on the block as well as the smoothest coat I've ever felt on a dog. 
I had Zeth with me last night when I picked up hubby from work and met with Zeth's brothers Mommy who works there. She was totally amazed at Zeth's coat. Zeth's brother is on some A&P grocery store brand food and his coat is gross to the feel. It's all course feeling and just not pleasant to pet. His mommy who I'm trying to convince to switch over foods just isn't buying it for money reasons.


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## Muzby

Yes! Signature! LOL

I am lame, so that's the best you get.. nothing fancy like everyone elses. Took me that long to make BLOCKS! LOL

Zeths mommy:

They -do- have "splinters", the splinters just are as bad as cooked bones. Sharp, yes, but because they are more pliable than cooked there is no danger. 

OFcourse there is always a LITTLE danger.. but the same could be said for kibble, my dear. No worries, Zeth obviously knows how to get rid of any pieces stuck in there (hack!) just like Betty does. Did you ever see the vid I posted? Betty ate too much chicken skin at one time and horked it all back up! Gross.. but she was fine.  That's not to say that we dont supervise, we ALWAYS supervise. Even with a kibble meal, we would supervise.


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## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> I didn't have the chance to get to the store to buy the turkey, so I had to use what I had here which was steak and ground beef. The steak was still frozen so I used the ground beef.
> Lola, Lila, and Maxx all had the chicken breast with bits of ground beef. I wanted to try and introduce them slowly to the beef.
> 
> Okay, for Lily I gave her some bits of ground beef, and I gave her some of her NV rabbit kibble. I didn't want to give any kibble, and they haven't had any for a while now, but I needed to give her something besides chicken to eat with her ground beef. Was that bad?
> They LOVED the beef!


Yea!!! I don't think that's bad but I'm new to this also. I still have a full bag of kibble that I will use if I need to. Good job!!!


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Okay, I have been doing a ton of reading about raw. You know the pros and cons. A LOT of people are feeding raw, and they have nothing but good things to say. 
I have also read SOME negative things about raw. Most I don't agree with, but when it comes to feeding raw bones and the nutritional value, I must admit, I am starting to become a bit concerned. 
I found this website last night, and I am hoping someone will read all the information and tell me what they think. You need to click on the links that say "read this" or "look at this page" and "read about" to read more in depth about wolves, bones, and the nutritional value of bones. This is the link
http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/bones.html

I wasn't going to post this because I didn't want to upset anyone, but after reading Zethsmommy post, and after dealing with the same issues here, I am hoping for some answers. When my chi's eat their bones they definitely eat sharp pieces, and after reading the link and looking at the x-rays from dogs that ate bones, it freaked me out.
An example of what's in the link:
People that work with wolves write about how wolves do eat bones, but they also eat the fur, and the fur tightly wraps itself around the bones so it protects the wolves.


If you decide to go to the link and read through everything, please tell me what you think. Remember to click on the other links so you get all the info.

Am I just being paranoid???


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## Zethsmommy

I just saved that link to read first thing in the morning. Thank you for posting that. I'll give my imput after I read it.

Anyway I gave Zeth and Sandy a Turkey leg tonight. I stripped the bone of all meat and fed each of them the meat. I then held the leg bone in my hand and Sandy could easily crack the bone into sharp slivers. I took it away and proceeded to remove all the good marrow from the inside of the bone and fed them that. I also let them each eat the grizzly end of the bone. I did end up tossing the center of bone as it was just as splintery as the chicken leg. I'm really kinda hesitant to feed them sharp pointy pieces. I don't want that sitting in there throats or tummies or have them have trouble passing it out the back end. 

This all brings back memories of a neighbors dog that got a chicken bone lodged in it's throat. Granted it was a cooked bone but it still scares me. I remember very vividly what that poor dog went through having the bone removed. 

On a good note I stopped at one of the local grocery stores for milk tonight and just couldn't resist passing through the meat department. The butcher was just bringing out Fresh Beef Tripe. OMG I grabbed it. It was kinda expensive at $3.99lb and the package was $4.99. Looks like I'll enough for several months. It was very clean looking, white in color and no stink to it what so ever. It kinda looked like a honeycomb. I cut off a little bit for the dogs to try. They each snatched it up and down it went.
I hope this is the right stuff because they where begging for more. I think I read somewhere they only get it once a week??????? Did I get the right stuff. I heard about Tripe that looks green in color and everyone who bought the canned stuff says it smells???
My daughter saw me with the tripe and now wants me to make her some. She wants to know why the dogs eat better than her. I'm searching recipes at the moment. 

At the moment Zeth and Sandy are running through the house chasing each other and doing an ocassional sniff at the garbage can cause they know the Turkey bone is in there. 
Today's poop for Sandy and Zeth where A ok. Firm and tiny. Yeah. I've also cut way back on the amount of Zeth's food as I truely believe I was overfeeding him. He's a little sausage for sure but on the big side for a Chi. He has a big appetite now that he's eating raw.


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## rcj1095

Lisa, I don't know what to think!!! Every pet owner that works at the Pet Stores that I go to feed the raw. I think it's one of those deals where there are gonna be pro's and con's and we have to make the decision for ourselves. This appears to be a very controversial subject and I don't know how I feel about what I just read. Of course, I've heard some people say some of the same things and have the same concerns. I'm pretty comfortable with feeding them this way and it far outweighs the recalls and worries about the kibble. Are you concerned about the bits of bone in the medallions also? Maybe just supplement with the meat without the bones if you are worried? Your worries are valid honey and you have to feel comfortable with it. I'm gonna re-read it. Keep us posted sweetie!!!


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## Muzby

Okay, I am here to expel the worry.

" This hound of about 75 pounds was found by his owner feeding on a dead deer carcass. The dog became very lethargic, attempted unsuccessfully to vomit and pass stool, and was dehydrated. This dog was feeding NATURALLY on RAW BONES and you can see the results." Actually, the dog ate a GOD KNOWS how old carcass, and many deer bones are TOO LARGE and referred to as "wreck" bones because they are NOT GOOD FOR PETS TO EAT. Also, notice they never mention the bone shards actually harming the dog excpet for making him CONSTIPATED.. which we all know too much bone will do.

"This dog was straining to pass stool, was weak and dehydrated when presented to the veterinarian, and had a history of raiding the neighbor's garbage cans. Both dogs required four days in the hospital, anesthesia and sedation, repeated enemas, i.v. fluid Doesn't matter if it's raw or cooked, does it!therapy, antibiotics, and additional x-rays. If this treatment approach wasn't successful, major surgery would have been necessary to save the dogs from an agonizing death."

Okay, so this dog raided garbage cans.. which most likely had COOKED BONES not RAW BONES. What's their point? Neither dog was actually being FED appropriate raw bones, both were "getting into" something they should not have been.

"Now, for those of you who state with confidence that "Wolves in the wild eat bones all the time; so it must be OK for dogs to do the same", I would ask you this... How many times have you even seen a healthy wolf? How can you state with authority that wolves are NOT occasionally harmed by a bone splinter? I can tell you this: If a wolf unluckily happens to become disabled by intestinal bone fragments such as the dogs in these examples were, the wolf's cousins would dispatch the sick wolf in moments "...and unto dust thou shalt return". Hardly anyone ever sees even a healthy wolf, how much more unlikely would it be to happen upon a sick wolf when being a "sick wolf" is equivalent to a swift death sentence! We don't get many opportunity to do autopsies on dead wolves. For a list of unedited, honest replies from wolf care managers regarding the question of whether or not consuming bones is safe for wolves..."

Alright, this one always makes me mad! No, you don't always see healthy wolves.. and they say "how can you know for sure it's not the bones making them sick?".. well, how can you know for sure IT IS THE BONES?! I mean for gods sake, wolves deal with illness from bites/ticks/other wolves/parasites/etc. BUt nooo.. ofcourse it is the BONES making them sick.

This link: http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/wolfexrep.html Has zoo people talking about bones... not nutritionists or anyone schooled in anything but "here's how to feed this wolf". They also RECOMMEND PURINA!!!!! I mean, do you REALLY want to take what they say to heart? Purina is one of the WORST pet food companies.

"Just for fun, though, lets assume there are great benefits to be derived from feeding bones, but with that benefit comes the slight chance that drastic major surgery may be needed to save your dog's life as a result of feeding those bones...WHY DO IT??!! Very nutritious foods are available, some have ground bone as part of the recipe and the ground bone poses no threat."

Soooo... I could crash my car while driving tomorrow and die. Does this mean I stop driving? The percentage chance is SO SLIM that I deem it a risk worth taking every day. Just because he can site TWO dogs who got 1) constipated incredibly from a carcass he should not have gorged on and 2) got sick from eating someone's trash which could have GOD KNOWS WHAT in it.. does that mean I will stop? No.

They show pretty scary pictures, but who knows what kinds of bones those were? Alreayd cooked/dried petstore bones? The beagle at the bottom, that looks like a store bought bone or a smoked bone fragment. The picture of the "lodge piece of bone" is HUGE! That dog must have been given an inappropriate WRECK bone.

As for the hair encasing the bone: having never seen wolf guts or poop, I can not comment. However, I'd like to point out that if raw bone fragments killed as many pets, or made as many pets sick as this VET seems to claim.. why aren't there more people talking about it? Besides vets and pet food companies, that is. 

I'd like to see that mans bank account.. I wouldn't be surprised to find some large 'donations' from some people who made dog food or premade raw.

In closing: Everything has it's dangers. I could write essays on how many dogs get kibble stuck in teeth and rot the teeth, how it causes cancer, how it causes diabetes - or even how many dogs/cats CHOKE on it. And as long as I was a vet, people would listen and take me seriously.


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## Muzby

Zethsmommy said:


> On a good note I stopped at one of the local grocery stores for milk tonight and just couldn't resist passing through the meat department. The butcher was just bringing out Fresh Beef Tripe. OMG I grabbed it. It was kinda expensive at $3.99lb and the package was $4.99. Looks like I'll enough for several months. It was very clean looking, white in color and no stink to it what so ever. It kinda looked like a honeycomb. I cut off a little bit for the dogs to try. They each snatched it up and down it went.
> I hope this is the right stuff because they where begging for more. I think I read somewhere they only get it once a week??????? Did I get the right stuff. I heard about Tripe that looks green in color and everyone who bought the canned stuff says it smells???


Tripe is supposed to be green and full of gunk.  Otheriwse it's not so great for them! Not that it's -bad-, just not full of wonderful stomach content that is so necessary in their diets.

White tripe is bleached and all the nutrients are gone.

If it doesn't smell like butt, it's got no nutrients! LOL


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## rcj1095

Kelly, I was so hoping you'd jump in here. I'm very comfortable with what I'm doing but I think we can always find pro's and con's to everything. Mine are thriving on it. 

Lisa, I back you up 100% with however you feel. You have to be comfortable with what you are feeding your angels. I'm glad you shared that link. The more information we have, the better. Love ya girl!!!


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## Brodysmom

Lisa - thanks for posting that link. That was one of the first sites I visited when reading about raw feeding and I thought it was scary. Then I was reading sites about people whose dogs had died from eating contaminated kibble! So what to do!? 

Just like Muzby said... I think there are risks and benefits to both kinds of feeding. We have to do what we are comfortable with. I think that raw feeding of bones should be supervised. But the same could be said for kibble. Look how many big dogs die of bloat after eating kibble. I've never heard of a raw fed dog dying of bloat.

To me, feeding a more natural food just 'makes sense.' I don't have a degree in nutrition, but I did have to study it in school, and feeding grains and wheat and soy and flour, etc. to a carnivore really doesn't make any sense. A natural diet of a prey animal certainly seems more in tune with the dog's genetic make up. 

I've also been discouraged by sooooooooo many dogs dying of cancer, getting diseases... liver, thyroid, kidney failure.... and have wondered how much diet plays in a part. Also over-vaccinating. Not to mention all the pesticides we shove down their throat or squeeze onto their skin every month. There are so many factors to consider in what is "healthy" for our pets. 

I think it comes down to doing what you are comfortable with. If feeding bones makes you nervous, or you see a deterioration in your dogs condition, then maybe it's not for you. (Not anyone personally, just a generalization.) My parents are ones that will always feed crappy grocery store kibble. Even though both their dogs are obese, have crappy teeth, poor hair coats, huge stools, low energy, smelly dog odor, ear infections, itchy skin, etc. They just think that is healthier. I don't feel that way. But I could talk to them until I am blue in the face and it wouldn't make any difference. They think they are doing what is BEST for their dogs.

I guess my point is that we all have to do the research.... look at both sides.... talk to experts and non-experts.... and make up our minds as to what we think is best. Then do it.  Our dogs are counting on us.

Brodysmom


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## Muzby

Ha, ladies.. I got all caught up!

Ofcourse, it is up to YOU what you feed your kids. No one can make you do anything, and as long as you are comfortable and you know it's actually healthy for them - good for you. Even that website suggests raw meat/organ but ground bone. So it's not exactly saying "no to raw".. just WAY to one sided for me. Bones clean teeth. It's a fact. Regardless of nutrient, they are needful IMO. After $380 on Betty to get 9 teeth pulled.. yeah, bones are a part of her diet. Who has that kind of cash laying around to shell out all the time for tooth surgeries?

If the larger bones are what's scaring you, stick with chicken/turkey/rabbit ribs and smaller bones like wings, etc. Rabbit has softer bones than chicken, as far as I know. Also, load bearing bones break up different.. so those legs/thighs etc. 

I just let my angry get to my head when I see people being scared to death because of something that MIGHT happen MAYBE to one dog every ten years.. and from that site - seems as though both times those dogs were getting into things they should never have eaten. Sounds like a case of neglectful owners to me!


----------



## Muzby

Also wanted to elaborate on my angry at this: "Both dogs required four days in the hospital, anesthesia and sedation, repeated enemas, i.v. fluid"

He says NEITHER dog needed surgery.. but that it COULD HAVE NEEDED surgery if those treatments weren't successful... but they WERE successful. I wonder why he couldn't site any dogs that NEEDED surgery? Makes me think he is twisting stories and diagnosis and playing with words to make his theory correct.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Sorry if I upset anyone, but I needed to see what you all had to say about it.
I have been feeding them raw (not the medallions) since the beginning of August, and they do love the raw!
Instead of just reading about raw foods pros and cons, I also started reading about wolves since the prey model is based on their diet, and found that people who work with wolves and mention the wolves "scat" they say that the bones are wrapped tightly with hair to protect them from the bone. That concerned me because our dogs don't eat hair, so what protects them? 
Honestly, I found a lot more people on the web that love raw, and swear by it then I found people hating on it. I personally think raw is wonderful, but in the back of my head I can't help but worry. Sorry, but I do.
I'm so happy you all feel confident with your choices. I wish I still was. Darn Internet!


----------



## Brodysmom

Lisa - if you are really worried about bone fragments, why don't you try grinding up some chicken wings? Make some ground bone and a little meat/skin meatballs! Then you could feed one every other day or so for your bone portion and then feed meaty meals in between. Or if their stools got soft, you could just put in half a meatball or so with every day's meaty portions. They wouldn't get the teeth cleaning that chewing raw bones provides, but they would get the benefit of the calcium/phosphorus in the correct ratio. And then you wouldn't have to worry about bone fragments. 

Just an idea?

Brodysmom


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## Brodysmom

Just wanted to share our lamb rib experience. Went to Walmart today and they had a big selection of different lamb parts. I got what look like lamb ribs. They are VERY fatty, so I don't think they were a good value, but I wanted to try it. 

Came home and trimmed off most of the fat. I then had a rib bone about 4 inches long and pretty flat, covered by a layer of meat. Kept one and put the others in the freezer for later. I scored the meat and cut off a few extra pieces of the meaty lamb and gave it to him. He wasn't interested. So I seared the lamb meat and he did eat it. 

Then I sat down and held the bone in my hand, like I do his bullysticks. He came over and laid on my lap and started gnawing on the lamb bone. He worked on it for probably 30 minutes and chewed it down to a nub and then I threw it away. None of the bone splintered or broke off. It just turned sort of gummy and then he'd gnaw on it some more and eventually worked it all the way down. Hopefully it won't upset his tummy, but I was glad to find another bone source since he's not all that crazy about chicken bones! 

Brodysmom


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## Muzby

Oh Lisa, you didn't get me upset! LOL You are just a concerned mum trying to find out the best way to keep your kids healthy and safe! *hugs*

I just don't like when people I care about get scared off something good by people who twist words and such to their own ends without REAL proof.

Who's to say the hair is so tightly packed on the inside? Sure, while moving through the intestines, but the stomach and on the way to the stomach is where the vets are claiming there is a risk, yet no one knows what it looks like there. I imagine when the "bone shards" come out, they are not sharp, as the stomach has done a good job of breaking them down. I know I've been feeding Betty raw since she got here 8 mths ago, and I've never had a bone shard come out whole... ever. Always ground down and poop like. LOL She eats legs and thighs of chickens AND turkeys all the time.


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## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Sorry if I upset anyone, but I needed to see what you all had to say about it.
> I have been feeding them raw (not the medallions) since the beginning of August, and they do love the raw!
> Instead of just reading about raw foods pros and cons, I also started reading about wolves since the prey model is based on their diet, and found that people who work with wolves and mention the wolves "scat" they say that the bones are wrapped tightly with hair to protect them from the bone. That concerned me because our dogs don't eat hair, so what protects them?
> Honestly, I found a lot more people on the web that love raw, and swear by it then I found people hating on it. I personally think raw is wonderful, but in the back of my head I can't help but worry. Sorry, but I do.
> I'm so happy you all feel confident with your choices. I wish I still was. Darn Internet!


Lisa, we are here to support each other no matter what our comfort levels are. I'm just not a huge worrier like that. I believe half of what I hear and half of what I read. I go with my gut and I trust people that I know. Don't feel bad about posting that. You didn't upset anyone. I love information and I want you to feel good about your decisions. These are our babies.


Brodysmom said:


> Lisa - if you are really worried about bone fragments, why don't you try grinding up some chicken wings? Make some ground bone and a little meat/skin meatballs! Then you could feed one every other day or so for your bone portion and then feed meaty meals in between. Or if their stools got soft, you could just put in half a meatball or so with every day's meaty portions. They wouldn't get the teeth cleaning that chewing raw bones provides, but they would get the benefit of the calcium/phosphorus in the correct ratio. And then you wouldn't have to worry about bone fragments.
> 
> Just an idea?
> 
> Brodysmom


GREAT IDEA!!! What do you think Lisa???


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Thanks Tracy. I thought about doing that. I still haven't decided what I am going to do. The stupid bone issue has me twisted. I'm not going to bring it up anymore. I don't want to ruin this thread with my paranoia. 
I did buy some turkey today for dinner and they loved it, yes, bone and all.


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## Muzby

Brodysmom said:


> ... I was glad to find another bone source since he's not all that crazy about chicken bones! Brodysmom


Yay new meat source! Go Brody!

Tracy, I am soooo glad he liked the lamb it is a good work out for his teeth that is for sure. 

Although, I do not think just chewing it is actually considered bone content unless he is ingesting bone itself.. have your ordered rabbit yet? That might be a good plan to try him on some other appropriate bone.


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## Muzby

Lisa really! Keep posting! How is everyone supposed to learn and debate if you don't post anything that is not "debateable"!? C'mon girl, keep posting things to make me write long replys! LOL


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## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Thanks Tracy. I thought about doing that. I still haven't decided what I am going to do. The stupid bone issue has me twisted. I'm not going to bring it up anymore. I don't want to ruin this thread with my paranoia.
> I did buy some turkey today for dinner and they loved it, yes, bone and all.


Lisa, stop it!!! We are here to figure this out together. I would be so upset if you didn't share your "paranoia". I'll share mine if you'll share yours. LOL. Let's keep Kelly working, it's fun!!! Seriously hon, you are a huge part of this thread and I want to hear every concern you have, okay??? Please???


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## Brodysmom

Muzby said:


> Although, I do not think just chewing it is actually considered bone content unless he is ingesting bone itself.. have your ordered rabbit yet? That might be a good plan to try him on some other appropriate bone.


Kelly, he ate the lamb bone. I was holding it and he chewed and chewed it and it kind of dissolved as he chewed and he ate it. A whole lamb rib. So he definitely ate it. 

I haven't ordered rabbit yet! I wish I could just get it in the store.  Do you think asian or mexican markets might have some? 

Lisa, do NOT feel bad for posting your opinions or fears! That's what makes this place so great. We can all TALK about stuff without having others belittle or shoot us down. Everyone has an opinion and a viewpoint. That's what I love about this place. We can ALL learn from each other!!! 

Brodysmom


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## Muzby

MMM! So he has GOOD TEETH! Such a handsome and strong man, that Brody! Asian might, do you have any Mennonite farmers in the area? They may have it too.. check local markets and farms/flea markets. 

Just for the record: I will cry is Lisa doesn't bring up problems with bones anymore. *pouty face!!!*


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Aww Kelly you really are a sweetheart. The last thing I want to do is get you mad. You have been there for me...for all of us, and I so appreciate it.
You know that comment that you made about Betty never pooping out a sharp bones makes me think...None of mine have either! They always digested them. Even Lola the gulper who practically swallows the bones in chunks has never pooped a large piece of bone. I couldn't pull out a piece of bone from their poop if I wanted to. It is totally digested. Hmmm.... so why in the world is a wolf pooping out pieces of bone? 
Oh thanks Kelly.
That comment has turned things around a bit for me! 
XoXoXo's Love ya!!!


Robin and Tracy-
Thanks girls. I love ya both! XoXoXo's!


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## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Just wanted to share our lamb rib experience. Went to Walmart today and they had a big selection of different lamb parts. I got what look like lamb ribs. They are VERY fatty, so I don't think they were a good value, but I wanted to try it.
> 
> Came home and trimmed off most of the fat. I then had a rib bone about 4 inches long and pretty flat, covered by a layer of meat. Kept one and put the others in the freezer for later. I scored the meat and cut off a few extra pieces of the meaty lamb and gave it to him. He wasn't interested. So I seared the lamb meat and he did eat it.
> 
> Then I sat down and held the bone in my hand, like I do his bullysticks. He came over and laid on my lap and started gnawing on the lamb bone. He worked on it for probably 30 minutes and chewed it down to a nub and then I threw it away. None of the bone splintered or broke off. It just turned sort of gummy and then he'd gnaw on it some more and eventually worked it all the way down. Hopefully it won't upset his tummy, but I was glad to find another bone source since he's not all that crazy about chicken bones!
> 
> Brodysmom


Yeah!!! You are having good luck at Walmart. Brody, our little Man, is coming along. Keep doing what you are doing girl. Let me know when you do the rabbit. I'm so proud of you and him!!!


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## Muzby

I suppose my word choice was awful.. just imagine me saying "my angry" as in LOLCATS "I haz a angry", because that's what I think why I type it. LOL

It does make sense, eh? Betty NEVER poops full bones, ever. So mayhaps the fur in the critters is preventing some bone from digesting... since fur is not digestible. That is why they see it in the poops after!


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## rcj1095

Muzby said:


> I suppose my word choice was awful.. just imagine me saying "my angry" as in LOLCATS "I haz a angry", because that's what I think why I type it. LOL
> 
> It does make sense, eh? Betty NEVER poops full bones, ever. So mayhaps the fur in the critters is preventing some bone from digesting... since fur is not digestible. That is why they see it in the poops after!


Agh, another good point. I would have never even thought of that. I really am a newbie to all of this!!!


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Tracy, Brody is doing amazing. That's so good he ate the lamb meaty bone. What a good boy!

Kelly, I swear you have a reasonable answer for all my questions. Well, yeah....Duh, fur can't be digest so it probably attaches itself around the bone, and then the bone doesn't get digested. Make sense to me! Yea!

Robin, how are your babies doing? Have you started on a different meat yet? The "littles" are doing good, huh?


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## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Tracy, Brody is doing amazing. That's so good he ate the lamb meaty bone. What a good boy!
> 
> Kelly, I swear you have a reasonable answer for all my questions. Well, yeah....Duh, fur can't be digest so it probably attaches itself around the bone, and then the bone doesn't get digested. Make sense to me! Yea!
> 
> Robin, how are your babies doing? Have you started on a different meat yet? The "littles" are doing good, huh?


Okay, they have had chicken legs, thighs, breast and back. They have had chicken gizzards, beef liver and ribs. Tomorrow they are having steak. Today they had venison medallions. I have 5 bags from the sale with the coupon and I'm so glad to have it as back up. My Mom bought me a whole chicken today so I'll be cutting that up tomorrow and they'll love that. Yea, the "littles" love it. They all love it. Lily is a bit fussy as she didn't like the texture of the beef liver. She chomps those chicken bones down like I eat potato chips, it's crazy. Stools are good and I'm really just going a day at a time. Keep us posted on what you decide and how yours are doing. They liked the turkey, huh??? I have yet to do turkey or cornish hens??? I'll be on it though.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Wow! So they have had a pretty good variety so far. No poop problems? They are doing so well!
Yeah, mine liked the turkey. I'm pretty slow with introducing new meats. My chi's are so sensitive. 
Since Lily can't eat chicken, can I give her beef liver or some other liver for her 5% liver. It doesn't have to be chicken liver, right?


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## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Wow! So they have had a pretty good variety so far. No poop problems? They are doing so well!
> Yeah, mine liked the turkey. I'm pretty slow with introducing new meats. My chi's are so sensitive.
> Since Lily can't eat chicken, can I give her beef liver or some other liver for her 5% liver. It doesn't have to be chicken liver, right?


Absolutely. Just do the beef liver. You poor girl. Yours are just a bit more sensitive. I've stuck with chicken for the most part but slowly tried the beef and the rib bone. I have a steak that was a little bit freezer burn so I thawed it and they are getting it tomorrow. I think they'll love it. Yea, no poop trouble so far. Their stools turn white by the end of the day, it's crazy. I know I gave Coop too much beef liver but he loved it so much.


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## rcj1095

Okay, call me crazy (most people do) but I feel like my kids go poo poo a little more often with the medallions. I know it's raw still but I've been busy and lazy lately and have given them the medallions more often and I swear they are going potty a bit more then when I give them my own meat. It's still very small and hard but doesn't turn as white as when it's the non pre-made stuff. Just curious. I know, I probably have too much time on my hands when I'm analyzing poo poo again. LOL.:coolwink:


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Yeah Robin, I noticed the same thing. When they were getting the medallions they pooped more. Not a lot , but definitely more then when they get the raw meat. It must be all the added stuff in the medallions. 
Your not crazy.Lol!
I remember you saying you give the fur kids yogurt sometimes. What kind of yogurt do you give? Why do you give it to them? Is it for upset tummies?


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## rcj1095

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Yeah Robin, I noticed the same thing. When they were getting the medallions they pooped more. Not a lot , but definitely more then when they get the raw meat. It must be all the added stuff in the medallions.
> Your not crazy.Lol!
> I remember you saying you give the fur kids yogurt sometimes. What kind of yogurt do you give? Why do you give it to them? Is it for upset tummies?


Hi honey, we're both crazy!!! I'm glad you noticed that too. I use the all natural plain yogurt. It has the active yogurt cultures including L ACIDOPHILUS. It has nothing artificial in it. They like it and I just throw a tbsp. their way occasionally.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Okay, thanks. I think I will give some to them every once in a while. Should I get the non fat plain yogurt, or does it not matter?


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

I can't find tripe anywhere! I found the white tripe, but not the green. 
Where did you all get the tripe? Can or fresh I can't find it. I did see a can of the Solid Gold tripe, but it had a ton of other ingredients in it. I think it was just dog food with tripe in it. 
What are you all using?


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## Brodysmom

I bought 100% tripe from Merricks in the can. Phew, it smells TERRIBLE! I did give Brody a couple spoonfuls and then couldn't stand it in the fridge and threw it away. So then I bought the 100% dehydrated tripe chews and he gets one of those every once in awhile. He likes them alot and they don't smell near as bad as the fresh stuff.

Brodysmom


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Thanks Tracy. I will check it out.


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## Muzby

Get the canned tripe and spoon it into meal sized portions and freeze, Tracy - no stinky fridge that way. 

Betty enjoys her canned tripe, now if only I can get her to eat RAW! Grrr.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

I just bought this book called "Work Wonders, Feed Your Dog Raw Meaty Bones" by Tom Lonsdale.
Has anyone read it or know of the author?


Good idea about the canned tripe Kelly. When I can get my hands on a can I will do that!


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## Muzby

Tom is a fan of feeding fruit/veggie as a staple in the diet, as opposed to tripe/actual stomach content. He is not someone I would follow (many times, I have stated I am for prey model - not BARF, or RMB). RMB is suggesting TONS of bone.. infact, most of the diet to be bone (as far as I know).. which to me is not correct. I prefer to feed as nature intended with whole prey model and make sure they get actual processed stomach content instead of just veggies.

That said, Betty gets all sorts of 'extras', too. Banana, bran muffins, yogurt, she stole some cherry once. LOL


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Oh No! I thought it was about the prey model, not the BARF diet. Ugh! I just bought it on Ebay, and now I'm stuck with it.
It should say on the stupid cover that it is BARF! So a book that says RMB is BARF? To confusing!!!
Do you know of any books that are prey model?


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## Muzby

No, he's not BARF, he's RMB. 

BARF is different than RMB, RMB is different than prey model. 

RMB = Raw Meaty Bones - more bone and less meat, can give cooked/raw meat, 1/3 diet table scrap veg

Prey model - 80/10/10


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Muzby said:


> No, he's not BARF, he's RMB.
> 
> BARF is different than RMB, RMB is different than prey model.
> 
> RMB = Raw Meaty Bones - more bone and less meat, can give cooked/raw meat, 1/3 diet table scrap veg
> 
> Prey model - 80/10/10


Lol! Okay, I didn't know that. Thanks Kelly. I Learned something new .



I can't find the Merrick BG Tripe in any of the pet stores, so I will have to order it. 

I did find Solid Gold Tripe, but I think it's more of a dog food. It has a long list of ingredients. 
One thing about the Merrick, it doesn't say "green" tripe. Hmmm.... Is it green?
Ingredients for Solid Gold Tripe:
Green Beef Tripe, Beef Broth, Potatoes, Potassium Chloride, Di calcium Phosphate, Garlic, Choline Chloride, dl-methionine, A-Tocopherol, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Calcium Panthothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, Vitamin D Supplement, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Selenomethionine, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate

Ingredients for Merrick:
Tripe, and water.


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## Brodysmom

I'd get the Merrick one, just the 100% tripe one. You don't need the dog food one. And Lisa - it's more just a treat that is super good for them. It doesn't have to be a regular part of their diet like the meat/fat/bones/organs. But it does have good enzymes in it, etc. that are good for them and they say that dogs LOVE it. True as Brody loved it and he hates everything. ha.

Good luck and hold your nose so you don't have to smell it. HA HA. 

Brodysmom


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## Muzby

Tripe is actually counted in the muscle content, and can be fed multiple times a week.. but it's hard to come by and most people don't like the smell, so it ends up being a weekly or biweekly thing.  There are people out there however, that have a good supply of tripe and feed this as the large part of their 80% muscle.


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## Brodysmom

I didn't know it counted as muscle!!! I just thought it was a treat. OK. I guess I will plug my nose and get another can and try it again. Thanks Kelly!!!

Does anyone use a multivitamin for their dogs? I was thinking about one for Brody since he doesn't eat well and I thought it might be insurance he's getting what he needs. But after reading the Pet Tabs story that they have high levels of zinc, I don't know what kind of vitamin to get!!!

brodysmom


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## Muzby

Yup, tasty smelly muscle. LOL So if Brody will eat it, go ahead and smear it on other things. Yuck!

The vet gave us this: http://www.completeandbalanced.com/ for Betty (to help fix her jaw) - I am using it to speed up the process in SMALL TINY amounts - but other than that, I don't feel she needs it. Brody on the other hand, if you are worried he is not eating enough - this could be a good thing for you.


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

Okay, the turkey bone is a real pain in the butt! It takes FOREVER for them to get just a tiny piece of bone,and the skin is like rubber, but the chi's love it. 
I need to find something else, especially for Lily. She can't have chicken anymore. Any ideas?

Kinda off topic-
I had to take Lily to the the vet today. Her pretty white nails seemed to be getting red from inside (looked like blood) and I guess it's called the cuticle (?) area around the nail was looking puffy and kinda separate from her nails. I really can't explain it that well. She had this happen before, back in September of 2007. I looked it up on her paperwork.
Anyways, the vet takes a look at Lily's nails, and also notices the purplish/brown spots on her inner thigh creases, and says to me she has allergies, food allergies. I told him the last time I came in for her nails, you just gave Lily a shot of penicillin and some Clavamox and it cleared up right away. 
So he then starts to tell me she will need a shot of penicillin, a shot of cortisone, a allergy spray that I spray on her....What? Never heard of that before, Clavamox to take home, AND start her on Science Diet. I think it was Z/D for allergies. I was like know way! Back in 2007 I bought a bag of it when we were there the first time for her nails, and I paid a small fortune for it. I opened the bag gave her a few kibbles, very reluctantly, and couldn't follow through with feeding it to her, so the brand new bag went in the trash. 
I told him all the other stuff was not needed, but I will take the penicillin shot and the Clavamox. I really didn't want the penicillin, but it worked so well the last time I thought it wise to do. I told him I already changed her food, but did not mention raw. I wasn't in the mood for a lecture.Lol. 
I find it a bit scary that the first thing my vet wants to do is cram a bunch of meds into, and on my dog. I mean I know that cortisone is useful and needed, but she just did not need it. That's powerful stuff.

Sorry for the long rambling story that is posted in the wrong thread, but I needed to vent a little.Lol.

Any ideas of what bones I can give Lily? The turkey bones take to long and they are getting hardly enough bone. They would be good rec bones for them... I think.


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## Brodysmom

Sorry to hear about Lily's vet visit and the allergy problems. I agree, I wouldn't want to do science diet either. You are RIGHT about steroids (cortisone). So strong and so many side effects. I hate the way they depress the immune system and make them vulnerable to other stuff like infections. But they DO make them hungry!! 

OK, I've been thinking about her allergy and trying to think of alternate protein sources and bones. What about lamb? I told you about Brody eating it, and he actually LIKES lamb. It's sort of pricey, but if you just fed it to her it wouldn't be bad. I bought a big package of what looked like a rack of ribs for Brody. After cutting off almost all the fat, there wasn't much meat on it at all! But it did have some good flat bones in it, like rib bones. They were harder than chicken bones, but I liked the way they didn't splinter at all. He sat on my lap and chewed on the end of it, like a bully stick, for about 30 minutes and nothing broke off of it at all. It was very similar to a bully stick in how it turned kind of gummy as he chewed. For one dog, that's a good big portion of bone, so you probably wouldn't have to feed it very often, or you could just keep it in the fridge and let her have gnaws on it every day or so to get her bone in. Does that make sense? 

They also had other packages of lamb there, like a lamb leg that would probably work. You could use the meat off it and then let her chew on that BIG bone. (Obviously she wouldn't eat it all in one sitting, ha). I think the raw lamb meat might be GREAT for her allergies.

I haven't found rabbit yet, but that could work. Also quail. (Not sure where you buy that either.) What about venison? Do you know any hunters? Hunting season is coming up and maybe they want to get rid of some of their old meat? 

Keep us posted. 

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Great suggestions Tracy. Hopefully Lisa can find some lamb or rabbit and give that a try. I can't find the merrick tripe anywhere either. I guess I'll have to order it???


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## Muzby

Lisa: Try this until you can find a reliable supplier- http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=21_35

Also, this is the part of raw where you actually have to do some work, and take some time -finding people to supply meat you need.

3 things you must do: 1) go on Kijiji and post an add each day asking for rabbit meat (hobby farmers, 4H kids, ets) 2) call around to various ethnic markets in the phone books -ask them if they have or can order, or if thye know SOMEONE who stocks it 3) drive to all the ethnic markets and flea markets you know of one weekend - ask EVERY vendor if they have rabbit (whether you see it or not) someone WILL know where to find it it's NOT an exotic meat

Here are a few other options to order a small amount of until you get your own suppliers in town:

Duck - http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=21_38 (this is fatty, feed small amounts at first)

Goat - http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=21_33

Pheasant - http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=21_39

Sheep - http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=21_34

Turkey - http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=21_36


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## TLI

Lisa, I totally feel your pain. I am having such a time with Lexie's allergies. She isn't scratching now that she's eating the new food, but I think it may be too rich for her. She spent all day yesterday sick. < sigh > I'm not feeding any treats or anything to anyone other than Jade so I can see how they are doing on the new food. So I'm guessing all of the protein may be too much for her. I really don't know, but I'm at wits end. The others are doing so well on it. She was given that steroid shot you mentioned a few months back, but the Vet said they can only give it to her once every 4 months because it's so strong. And I was hoping to eliminate what is making her sick instead of medicating the symptoms, ya know? I do not want to feed her SD, and the others they want to put them on for allergies. But right now I'm at a loss. Do I keep forcing the good foods that only make her sick? I mean what do you do? I've always said that their diet is only as good as they do on it. Anyway, just wanted you to know you're not alone. It makes me sick inside to see her suffer like this, and I know you feel the same. And it's so hard when you have 4 that have different dietary needs.


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## Muzby

When you said "sick", could you describe what's exactly going on?


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## TLI

Muzby said:


> When you said "sick", could you describe what's exactly going on?


We aren't using the medallions anymore after the choking incidence & vomiting. That kinda scared me off from it, but I know that feeding raw is the best way to go if it works out for your pups. They seemed to be fond of it the first time I offered it, but the girls wouldn't touch it in the evening. Chance was okay with it, but not that interested. At some point I may try to introduce them again, but for now I'm about nuts dealing with Lexie's allergies, and having 4 pups that seem to have different dietary needs. Anyway, we are on ZiwiPeak and EVO 95% canned right now. It is working for 2 of my adults, but it may be too rich for the little girl with the allergies.

Yesterday morning she woke up with her stomach growling. She seemed very lethargic and not interested in any food. This happens to her when her blood sugars start going down too. But she ate pretty good the day before. She couldn't rest well because I guess her stomach was hurting to much. She would lay down, then stand up, lay down, then stand up. I can tell when they are nauseous because they smack. Like licking, you know what I mean? I'm sure the getting up and down and smacking was because she felt like she was going to throw up. She had diarrhea until late yesterday evening too. They don't get any food other than their dog food. And I check the floors off and on all day long for things that anyone may drop in the house. May sound crazy, but I'm determined to get to the bottom of the food problems we have.


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## Muzby

TLI said:


> We aren't using the medallions anymore after the choking incidence & vomiting. That kinda scared me off from it, but I know that feeding raw is the best way to go if it works out for your pups. They seemed to be fond of it the first time I offered it, but the girls wouldn't touch it in the evening. Chance was okay with it, but not that interested. At some point I may try to introduce them again, but for now I'm about nuts dealing with Lexie's allergies, and having 4 pups that seem to have different dietary needs. Anyway, we are on ZiwiPeak and EVO 95% canned right now. It is working for 2 of my adults, but it may be too rich for the little girl with the allergies.
> 
> Yesterday morning she woke up with her stomach growling. She seemed very lethargic and not interested in any food. This happens to her when her blood sugars start going down too. But she ate pretty good the day before. She couldn't rest well because I guess her stomach was hurting to much. She would lay down, then stand up, lay down, then stand up. I can tell when they are nauseous because they smack. Like licking, you know what I mean? I'm sure the getting up and down and smacking was because she felt like she was going to throw up. She had diarrhea until late yesterday evening too. They don't get any food other than their dog food. And I check the floors off and on all day long for things that anyone may drop in the house. May sound crazy, but I'm determined to get to the bottom of the food problems we have.


I only ask "off topic" because you seem to switch foods often, and it may just be that she's trying to adjust to the changes - grains to no grains, etc. Some dogs have a rough time with the switch, just because MOST do well, don't discount just a tough switch over.  I hope she feels beter! I know what you mean about the smacking, Betty has motion sickness in the car and smacks all the time. Poor wee ones!


----------



## TLI

Muzby said:


> I only ask "off topic" because you seem to switch foods often, and it may just be that she's trying to adjust to the changes - grains to no grains, etc. Some dogs have a rough time with the switch, just because MOST do well, don't discount just a tough switch over.  I hope she feels beter! I know what you mean about the smacking, Betty has motion sickness in the car and smacks all the time. Poor wee ones!


Nope, no switches except from Wellness (we had been on this for many months) to raw. I chose to stop the medallions because of the choking and throwing up. Mine have never done that with a food change. We used Merricks before Wellness and had no trouble with the switch over. That was a long while back, but I'm guessing it would be similar. We don't really switch foods any more often than we have too. But I have heard that a rotation diet is actually better for them than one food for long periods of time. I would think this could have been an adjustment to the new food, but we have been on it 10 days now? I'm not absolutely sure on that, I'd have to look back to see when I switched, but long enough that I think they would be pretty much adjusted.

Thanks for the well wishes. I hope she feels better soon too. It's tough to watch them suffer. Lexie gets car sick too, so maybe she is just sensitive.


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## Muzby

Aww, poor muffin. Sometimes the "switch" can take them weeks to get used to.. especially if she's already got some "issues".  Give her some cuddles for me! I also notice the hotter weather really gets to me and I feel sick constantly, maybe that has something to do with it?


----------



## TLI

Muzby said:


> Aww, poor muffin. Sometimes the "switch" can take them weeks to get used to.. especially if she's already got some "issues".  Give her some cuddles for me! I also notice the hotter weather really gets to me and I feel sick constantly, maybe that has something to do with it?


I will, and thank you. I'm not sure what it is, maybe a combo of things. I think I'm going to take her in and have a complete blood panel ran on her because she has also lost weight lately. Could be because she doesn't eat much, but it scares me.


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## BeckyLa

I think I need a hug....

Dani is over 7 months now and has been on Wellness Puppy canned & dry for quite a while, but, from reading on this forum, I'm trying to get up the nerve to change her over to raw/partially cooked food.  So, the past couple of days I have been giving her raw ground beef and Nupro for breakfast. I am defrosting some chicken wings and thought I'd give her one for dinner tomorrow evening. I also made a stew of browned ground beef, beef broth, canned peas, canned sweet potato, garlic, salmon, & 3 salmon oil capsules (cut the end off and squeezed oil into the stew). I know it isn't raw, but I'm trying to go slow on the change over. I'm still not sure about nutrient balance and all that, I have trouble convincing myself that raw meat and bones are all she needs. But I'm still doing my homework and will figure it all out in time, I'm sure. But, here we are, Dani and I, trying to get off commercial foods and onto more natural. But what about fiber? If I feed her just canned, her stool gets soft & sticky, but with the dry also, it's fine. Will this be a problem if I take her off kibble and just go raw/cooked?


----------



## Brodysmom

BeckyLa said:


> I think I need a hug....
> 
> Dani is over 7 months now and has been on Wellness Puppy canned & dry for quite a while, but, from reading on this forum, I'm trying to get up the nerve to change her over to raw/partially cooked food.   So, the past couple of days I have been giving her raw ground beef and Nupro for breakfast. I am defrosting some chicken wings and thought I'd give her one for dinner tomorrow evening. I also made a stew of browned ground beef, beef broth, canned peas, canned sweet potato, garlic, salmon, & 3 salmon oil capsules (cut the end off and squeezed oil into the stew). I know it isn't raw, but I'm trying to go slow on the change over. I'm still not sure about nutrient balance and all that, I have trouble convincing myself that raw meat and bones are all she needs. But I'm still doing my homework and will figure it all out in time, I'm sure. But, here we are, Dani and I, trying to get off commercial foods and onto more natural. But what about fiber? If I feed her just canned, her stool gets soft & sticky, but with the dry also, it's fine. Will this be a problem if I take her off kibble and just go raw/cooked?


If you decide to go this route, I have some advice.... either jump in with both feet and do the raw, or just add some cooked foods in addition to her kibble. I don't think you should do raw haphazardly. It's OK to add a wing to clean teeth occasionally, but just doing part raw, part cooked, part kibble might be asking for trouble in the nutrition department. 

For raw to work right, you have to do an 80/10/5/5 program. That's 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organs. The bone is really important to keep the stools solid and to make sure that the calcium/phosphorus ratio is right. 

If you choose to do a cooked meal, I'd make sure you add plenty of vitamins and supplements. Maybe try the Urban Wolf, Honest Kitchen, or one of the other powdered supplements you use with the foods to make sure they get everything they need. Dogs do NOT need any carbohydrates in their diet. They don't need vegetables or fruits to be healthy. (They make us feel better to add them though, right?!) 

Kibble is 100% balanced. It is sure easy to scoop it out and have everything done for you. But if you do your research, you can feed your dog naturally and very healthy! But you do need to do your research.  

And hugs and congrats to you for thinking about Dani's diet and wanting to do the best thing for her!! 

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

First things first, here's your big hug!!! Sounds like you are on the right track. I made a very slow transition into this and took my time with it so that I felt comfortable. The thing with the raw and their potty is as long as they have bone 3 times a week it is nice and firm with no problem. Some dogs need a little more bone, some less. As you make the switch over, take note of her potty and if it's still a bit loose, add more bone to her diet. If it's nice and small and firm, it's perfect. If she's struggling to go, add more meat. It really is easier than it seems. I got myself so freaked out about it and there was no reason. Cut up a chicken and give the bone parts every other day or so, the meaty parts the other time and the gizzards during the week also. A touch of beef liver once a week is great also to start. It's easier than you think to give them all that they need thru raw, if that's the way you want to go. Good luck and take your time and try not to "overthink" it like I did!!! Another big hug and keep us posted!!!


----------



## Brodysmom

Great advice Robin!!

I also think that easing into raw using the Natures Variety medallions is GREAT. Takes the guesswork out of it and you know you are feeding food that is 100% balanced. So maybe get some of the NV and start slow from there!! 

Brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Great advice Robin!!
> 
> I also think that easing into raw using the Natures Variety medallions is GREAT. Takes the guesswork out of it and you know you are feeding food that is 100% balanced. So maybe get some of the NV and start slow from there!!
> 
> Brodysmom


I think I'm getting it, huh girl??? I still use the medallions as my back up. I like their potty better on the all raw but those are just "too" easy. If you'll notice, the advice I gave her is exactly the advice you gave me!!! LOL.


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## rcj1095

Okay guys, I am completely grossed out. I just cut the fryer chicken up. I think I will be buying thighs and wings and legs from now on. It was hard for me to cut up. I probably need new kitchen shears. Couple quick questions.

How long do I let them work on it? Until they are finished? After like 20 minutes I feel like they are struggling. 

Chloe looked as if she had a small piece and was struggling a bit. I tried to remove it from her mouth and she went to bite me, seriously bite me. I moved my hand in time and took it away but how do you handle that. I could pull Coop's teeth out and he wouldn't even think about biting me. I know she has food aggression anyway but I was mad. The kitchen is the only place I can feed them raw. I also refuse to feed them separately. They need to learn. Any advice???


----------



## Mom of 4 Chi's

Teresa-
Thank you. You know I have thought that it could be the protein. Aren't some dogs more sensitive to protein? But then again she had this way before we started the raw diet, so I don't know if it could be that. The Karma food she was on probably wasn't high in protein since it did have a lot of grains. I am really hoping it's the chicken. So far the purplish/brownish "allergy" spots are getting a bit better. She hasn't had chicken now for 6 days. How long should it take for her to show no signs of the chicken allergy?
Yeah, you are so right it is very frustrating. I just wish I could pin point it and move on. It's seems like you may have found the perfect food for your babies. I wish you the best of luck! 

Tracy- 
Thanks for the help!I can't find rabbit or lamb. I would think my store would have lamb at least, but they didn't. I'm going to try a different store. I also have one other ethnic store to try, so fingers crossed! 

Kelly-
Thanks for the links. I checked them out, and if I can't find rabbit or lamb at the stores that will be my next step. The turkey bone is a joke! I had to give her the NV duck & turkey kibble in place of her meaty bone meals because she needs to get her bone, and organs. Wish me luck! 

Robin-
Sounds like your babies are struggling with the bone like mine were with the turkey bone. It was just taking to long, and they were not making much progress. Don't they sell mini turkey's? I could swear that I have seen them before. If I sat there and waiting until they finished a turkey bone I be waiting for days.Lol.
I don't think they should have to struggle to be able to eat the bone. Some work is good for their neck and jaw muscles, but if they make no or little progress like mine did, then I think it's not the right bone for them. 
Chloe really loves her raw! Yeah, I would put a stop to that right away, but I'm not sure exactly how you should go about doing it. I'm sure someone on here will have excellent advice for you.
You should really give the Cornish hens a try. They are the perfect size proportions, with not a lot of cutting, and the bones are easy for them to chew.


----------



## rcj1095

Thanks Lisa, that's exactly what I'm going to do. I'll grab the hen next time and see how it goes. They have done well with the chicken bones so far but today seemed different. Maybe too much skin??? Hopefully someone can jump in here and help me with fatty's, I mean Chloe's, food aggression. LOL.


----------



## TLI

*Robin, here is some info. on food aggression. *

Why Does Your Dog Display Dog Food Aggression?

Canine possession aggression can be triggered by any number of factors but in most cases it can be attributed to one of these common causes: 


Your dog is desperate for this food, in his mind he doesn't know if or when he will get more food. Therefore he protects or guards his food, just like he would have done in a pack situation in the wild. 


Your dog may begin to see you as someone who is always taking good stuff away. He comes to view you more as a threat than a provider (you've got to turn this thinking around). 


Dog food aggression can be part of the general confusion regarding who the leader is in your owner-dog relationship. Often food aggression is not an isolated incident - it's something you must rectify. To discover how to establish yourself as your dog's fair and respected leader I recommend you study and implement these training methods - Secrets Of A Professional Dog Trainer. 


It's possible that your dog doesn't even understand that his dog food aggression is an unacceptable behavior. In such cases there is an obvious communication breakdown between human and dog. 


General Rules For Correcting Food Aggression In Dogs


Keep in mind that your dog's snarling/barking/growling is actually rewarded and therefore reinforced each time you back off. Your dog believes his behavior has worked and is much more likely to try the same thing again in future. Note: This doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't back off in this situation - more on this later. 


If your dog is directing his aggression towards other dogs the best solution is to simply separate them at meal times. Feed them in different rooms or in their crates. 


Involve all of your family members in this dog food aggression training. You must convey a unified and consistent message to your dog in order to successfully reverse this behavior. 


Take control of feeding time. You control the time and place of dinner time - own the food! 


Make your dog earn any food. Just simple tasks like requesting a sit or a down stay before you put the food bowl down are a good start. 


Make it clear to your young puppies that it's good to have people around when they are eating. If you do this from day one you will almost certainly prevent dog food aggression problems. 


If you encounter dog food aggression it is a good idea to feed your dog after you and your family eat. This again is a throwback to your dog's pack mentality where the alpha dog or leader of the pack (which is you) eats first - your dog will understand this technique. 


Don't let your dog "win" the food through his growling, this would reward the very behavior you are trying to eradicate. Don't bully or intimidate your dog though, it's much better to make him actually like having you around at meal time (follow the tips below to achieve this). 


Never respond to canine possession aggression with aggression of your own. In essence what this does is to lock you and your dog into a battle of wills. Your dog's next move will most likely be to step up his level of aggression in order to counter your action. 


Dog Food Aggression
Training Techniques

Firstly, be careful. If you believe your dog poses any real physical threat to you or family members I'd advise getting professional help. Speak to a professional dog trainer or animal behaviorist for more information. 

Below is a list of training techniques which could help your dog overcome his dog food aggression. Remember all of these techniques are designed to work towards reconditioning your dog to enjoy having you around anytime. 

Mix it up, show your dog who is boss. 


Hand feed your dogs. Eventually you should even be able to stick your hands into your dogs bowl while he is eating without any sign of aggression. 


Stroke and pet your dog while he is eating and at the same time talk to him in a calming tone. All you are doing at this point is showing your dog that it is a good thing for you to be around. 


Stand at a distance your dog is comfortable with, then gradually reduce this distance over time. You can flick a few treats in (or near) the food bowl as you slowly reduce the distance. 


Put your dogs bowl down with nothing in it, your dog will look back at you as though you are crazy. He'll then literally beg you to come over and fill his bowl. 


Feed your dog as normal but hold back a few pieces of his meal. When he is finished licking the bowl, he'll look back up at you, then you can come over and give him the remaining food. 


Drop a few of your dogs very favorite treats into his bowl each time you walk past it. After a while of this your dog will welcome the sight of you approaching the bowl. 


When your dog is eating, call him over to you, when he gets to you reward him, make it worth his while then let him back to the food bowl. 

While you are preparing your dogs meal put him in a down-stay or sit position, only release him from your command once you have put his bowl down. By doing this you are controlling meal time and establishing (or re-establishing) your role as your dogs leader. To learn more about how to be a strong and respected leader I recommend Secrets Of A Professional Dog Trainer. 


Work with another family member on this technique. Put your dog in his collar and leash and have him sit with your helper while you prepare the food. When you are ready release your dog and allow him his food. Again you are controlling the situation. 


Try the "Trade Up Method". What you do is take away the food or toy your dog is guarding, and replace it with something better. You can use an obedience command such as "give" or "leave it" to encourage your dog to release the precious resource he is guarding. You then take this resource (the food or toy) and give the trade up item to your dog. Once your dog has finished with the new item, you can then give back the resource you took away. This technique proves to your dog that he will receive something great for giving something up, it will recondition his thinking.


----------



## TLI

*Mom of 4 Chi's* said:


> Teresa-
> Thank you. You know I have thought that it could be the protein. Aren't some dogs more sensitive to protein? But then again she had this way before we started the raw diet, so I don't know if it could be that. The Karma food she was on probably wasn't high in protein since it did have a lot of grains. I am really hoping it's the chicken. So far the purplish/brownish "allergy" spots are getting a bit better. She hasn't had chicken now for 6 days. How long should it take for her to show no signs of the chicken allergy?
> Yeah, you are so right it is very frustrating. I just wish I could pin point it and move on. It's seems like you may have found the perfect food for your babies. I wish you the best of luck!


Yeah, some dogs have trouble processing too much protein. Or that's what I've been told by my Vet and the lady that owns the store where I buy my pet food. I have also done some research on it, and it looks like this can be the case for some.

If she was already showing these signs before raw, then I doubt the two are connected. If the spots are getting better from removing Chicken, then I bet that's the problem. I would say within 2 weeks of no Chicken you should see all the signs disappear if that's the issue. 

I'm like you, I'm ready to pin point the problem and find something that works. When you have to prepare food for 4 pups, you just want to know what each need and don't need.

Everyone is doing great on the new food except Lexie. But hopefully we'll have it all sorted out soon. Thank you for the well wishes, and I wish you the same.


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## rcj1095

Oh Teresa, thank you so much. Yea, this has just started with the raw. She's always been a little food crazy but never like this. I'm going to have to establish some of these things again. Great tips, I'll keep ya posted. They all growl a bit if one comes near the others food but this was a definite snap at me. I went to reach inside her mouth cuz I didn't want her to choke. Thank you again.


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## BeckyLa

Today's report....

For breakfast Dani had a bowl of her stew. Yes, I read that she does not need carbs or veggies so I will leave them out next time. Since she is a puppy, I think 3 meals a day might be in order so she had the same for lunch. I leave her Wellness Puppy kibble out all the time thinking she may need something I'm not giving her until I have a better handle on feeding raw. I'm going to do my best to do the %'s, but I am very poor at math, so poor I take my calculator to the grocery store.  For dinner I gave her the mini drumstick from the wing and she would not touch it.  She's gobbled up everything else I have given her but she would not touch the chicken. So, thinking she may be "overwhelmed" by what in her eyes must be a really big piece of meat, I took my kitchen scissors and cut off little pieces of meat just to get her started. Nope, wouldn't touch it. She did drop it on the floor and start to roll on it.  Since she had not had chicken before, cooked or raw, I'm thinking it could be the change in texture. So I fixed another small bowl of stew then cut up all the chicken from the bone and mixed it in. Then I heated it in the micro. She ate every bit. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking tomorrow I will fix some stew then mix some chicken in it after it's heated. That way the chicken will be raw but with the stew flavors to encourage her to eat it. I'm hoping that gradually I can win her over to the raw meaty chicken bones. Does this sound like a good plan? Meanwhile, I may continue some commercial also until she gets used to the change. As for using the NV medallions, the nearest dealer is an hours drive away and I cannot make a special trip just for that. I may pick up some the next time I go that way and just keep it in the freezer. Since she is a growing puppy I'm trying to be sure she has what she needs. As for the food aggression, I hope she doesn't develop that, I'm sorry yours has, but today it was more like relief when I took the raw chicken away. :tongue4:


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## rcj1095

BeckyLa said:


> Today's report....
> 
> For breakfast Dani had a bowl of her stew. Yes, I read that she does not need carbs or veggies so I will leave them out next time. Since she is a puppy, I think 3 meals a day might be in order so she had the same for lunch. I leave her Wellness Puppy kibble out all the time thinking she may need something I'm not giving her until I have a better handle on feeding raw. I'm going to do my best to do the %'s, but I am very poor at math, so poor I take my calculator to the grocery store.  For dinner I gave her the mini drumstick from the wing and she would not touch it.  She's gobbled up everything else I have given her but she would not touch the chicken. So, thinking she may be "overwhelmed" by what in her eyes must be a really big piece of meat, I took my kitchen scissors and cut off little pieces of meat just to get her started. Nope, wouldn't touch it. She did drop it on the floor and start to roll on it.  Since she had not had chicken before, cooked or raw, I'm thinking it could be the change in texture. So I fixed another small bowl of stew then cut up all the chicken from the bone and mixed it in. Then I heated it in the micro. She ate every bit. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking tomorrow I will fix some stew then mix some chicken in it after it's heated. That way the chicken will be raw but with the stew flavors to encourage her to eat it. I'm hoping that gradually I can win her over to the raw meaty chicken bones. Does this sound like a good plan? Meanwhile, I may continue some commercial also until she gets used to the change. As for using the NV medallions, the nearest dealer is an hours drive away and I cannot make a special trip just for that. I may pick up some the next time I go that way and just keep it in the freezer. Since she is a growing puppy I'm trying to be sure she has what she needs. As for the food aggression, I hope she doesn't develop that, I'm sorry yours has, but today it was more like relief when I took the raw chicken away. :tongue4:


Sounds like you're doing well. Getting them used to the raw is important so whatever you need to do will be good. I had trouble with Lily at first also with some of the raw, but now she just chews hers up. Good luck!!! I'll get this worked out with Chloe. She's been a little spitfire since day one.


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## Chico Bandito

Hello Brodysmom, I am new here and decided to join because some people were discussing raw feeding. I have an 8 month old Chi, and I am so happy that he is on a raw diet. The recipe looks okay for Nature's Variety, but just lots of stuff in it. It is soooo easy to make the raw food and freeze it for a small dog. That was you can control what he eats. Just a thought. I have another dog and the raw food saved her life. Let me know if you are interested in the recipe and process. Take care, Maggi


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## Mandy

im gonna look into this cause you guys seem to be happy with it we dont have that brand in the uk i dont think but gonna look around and see what i can find here dont want to go fully raw but i think i could do half raw and half kibble


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## rcj1095

Chico Bandito said:


> Hello Brodysmom, I am new here and decided to join because some people were discussing raw feeding. I have an 8 month old Chi, and I am so happy that he is on a raw diet. The recipe looks okay for Nature's Variety, but just lots of stuff in it. It is soooo easy to make the raw food and freeze it for a small dog. That was you can control what he eats. Just a thought. I have another dog and the raw food saved her life. Let me know if you are interested in the recipe and process. Take care, Maggi


Hi Maggi, I'm Robin. We'd love any raw food tips you have. We've all been doing this for a while now and if you have something we haven't tried, that would be great. Welcome to the forum!!!


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## rcj1095

~*Mandy*~ said:


> im gonna look into this cause you guys seem to be happy with it we dont have that brand in the uk i dont think but gonna look around and see what i can find here dont want to go fully raw but i think i could do half raw and half kibble


Hi girl, look around and see what you've got over there. Mine just love the raw. I transitioned myself into it and took my time. Mine haven't had kibble for months now but I still have a new fresh bag as back up. :coolwink:


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## *Chloe*

~*Mandy*~ said:


> im gonna look into this cause you guys seem to be happy with it we dont have that brand in the uk i dont think but gonna look around and see what i can find here dont want to go fully raw but i think i could do half raw and half kibble


we do have a similar product its called Natures Menu, you can buy it in frozen nuggets of meat or blocks - they sell it in the freezer section in pets at home - i did start a thread a few weeks ago to see if anyone else over here fed it but due to the lack of response i guess not :lol: Bentley really likes it, Twig wont touch it tho

heres a link http://naturesmenu.co.uk/products/Frozen_Nuggets/Frozen_Nuggets/


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## Brodysmom

Chico Bandito said:


> Hello Brodysmom, I am new here and decided to join because some people were discussing raw feeding. I have an 8 month old Chi, and I am so happy that he is on a raw diet. The recipe looks okay for Nature's Variety, but just lots of stuff in it. It is soooo easy to make the raw food and freeze it for a small dog. That was you can control what he eats. Just a thought. I have another dog and the raw food saved her life. Let me know if you are interested in the recipe and process. Take care, Maggi


Sure! Let us know what recipe you use and the process you use. It's interesting to read everyone's stories on the transition from kibble to a more natural diet. So post away!!! 

Brodysmom


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## carrera

question!-
I know its 80/10/10, and too much bone can cause hard stool, but if the stool is a-ok then can I give them more bone? Carrera and Chicco love the bone parts! And sometimes its easier to give them more bone instead of cutting them in half all the time.


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## rcj1095

carrera said:


> question!-
> I know its 80/10/10, and too much bone can cause hard stool, but if the stool is a-ok then can I give them more bone? Carrera and Chicco love the bone parts! And sometimes its easier to give them more bone instead of cutting them in half all the time.


Great question. Mine's stools are great too and I wondered the same thing. You could probably add it at least one more day if they are not having any trouble??? Someone will jump in and answer.


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## Brodysmom

I don't think there's any trouble with more bone, as long as it's balanced by lots of meat and their stools stay good! 

brodysmom


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## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> I don't think there's any trouble with more bone, as long as it's balanced by lots of meat and their stools stay good!
> 
> brodysmom


Thanks Tracy, that's kind of what I thought. How's Brody doing with his eating? Mine had steak last night and almost died!!!


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## Muzby

We've always given more than 10% bone because that's what works with us.. just watch that the poops dont come out looking like sand and you're good.


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## TLI

What does sand poop mean?


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## rcj1095

TLI said:


> What does sand poop mean?


Yep, just what I was gonna ask? Lily's was pretty white the other day, too much bone???


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## Brodysmom

I think sand poops are dry and crumbly and that means too much bone. Got to find that balance between too much bone or not enough and get the good, hard, small stools! 

Brody had a bony meal last night (cornish hen breast/wing) so today he had a few bites of ground lamb. He likes the lamb ribs so I bought a pound of ground lamb today to try it out. He wasn't thrilled but he did eat it. 

He also had a few bites of ziwipeak which he thought were treats! (Dehydrated raw venison).

brodysmom


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## TLI

Hmmm, we have had some of those lately. I guess I'm feeding too much of the ZP. I'll have to cut back.


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## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> I think sand poops are dry and crumbly and that means too much bone. Got to find that balance between too much bone or not enough and get the good, hard, small stools!
> 
> Brody had a bony meal last night (cornish hen breast/wing) so today he had a few bites of ground lamb. He likes the lamb ribs so I bought a pound of ground lamb today to try it out. He wasn't thrilled but he did eat it.
> 
> He also had a few bites of ziwipeak which he thought were treats! (Dehydrated raw venison).
> 
> brodysmom


Gotcha. Sounds like he's hanging in there. Maybe he just isn't going to be one that "loves" food. Mine's the other end over here, you'd think mine were starved!!! LOL.


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## Brodysmom

rcj1095 said:


> Gotcha. Sounds like he's hanging in there. Maybe he just isn't going to be one that "loves" food. Mine's the other end over here, you'd think mine were starved!!! LOL.


Robin, wanna TRADE?! ha ha! What I would give for him to eat what I put down for him and like it!!!! Just when I think I've got him where I want him, he decides he doesn't like chicken anymore. ETC. Story of my life!!! You don't know how LUCKY you are that you have four that eat and appreciate it!!! WOW!!!


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> Robin, wanna TRADE?! ha ha! What I would give for him to eat what I put down for him and like it!!!! Just when I think I've got him where I want him, he decides he doesn't like chicken anymore. ETC. Story of my life!!! You don't know how LUCKY you are that you have four that eat and appreciate it!!! WOW!!!


You are so right Tracy, I am lucky. I go thru this with my youngest daughter, Mackenzie. One day she eats my roast and loves it, the next time I make it she tells me that she doesn't like roast anymore. It goes on and on. Rob (my ex, very good friend) Andrew and I and all the grandparents just have to laugh anymore. Ya never know what you're gonna get with her. It's sheer craziness!!! I kinda know what you must go thru with Brody. Keep going girl, you're doing great and he's so healthy. You're just the one who's gonna have anxiety over it, not him!!! LOL. :foxes15::foxes15::foxes15:


----------



## Brodysmom

You're 100% right Robin. He isn't anxious about eating. Sometimes he's just too busy playing to take time out to eat. It's ME that wants him to eat! He's perfectly totally HAPPY.  I guess that's all that really matters. And he's certainly not lacking in energy, he runs circles around here all day long and then collapses for a nap or a chew on the bully stick and then he's off again. ha ha. 

Hubby's been channeling his energy and teaching him new tricks. He learned roll over the other day and now he knows dance, back up, etc. He's trying to teach him to play dead which is a hard one because the boy doesn't know how to lie down and be STILL! HA!

Brodysmom


----------



## rcj1095

Brodysmom said:


> You're 100% right Robin. He isn't anxious about eating. Sometimes he's just too busy playing to take time out to eat. It's ME that wants him to eat! He's perfectly totally HAPPY.  I guess that's all that really matters. And he's certainly not lacking in energy, he runs circles around here all day long and then collapses for a nap or a chew on the bully stick and then he's off again. ha ha.
> 
> Hubby's been channeling his energy and teaching him new tricks. He learned roll over the other day and now he knows dance, back up, etc. He's trying to teach him to play dead which is a hard one because the boy doesn't know how to lie down and be STILL! HA!
> 
> Brodysmom


Okay, first I need to borrow your hub. Second, we need videos of that. I still laugh my butt off at the one of him and the ball, was it??? Or was it the cat toy? Yea, that was it. Too hilarious. I need to see the dance and the back up. He's a charmer girl. Just relax. He's eating plenty.


----------



## carrera

I haven't seen any sandy looking stools yet, will keep an eye out though. 

Also, are the medallions based on the 80/10/10? Chicco and Carrera get one a day as part of their meals and seeing as how I can't get Carrera to eat any organs I wanted to know about how much she is getting from the medallions?


----------



## voodewlady

After starting Paige on the medallions this week, I have noticed that she is pooping more frequently then she was before. The poops are smaller, firmer and less stinky though. I just thought they were supposed to poop less on this diet?


----------



## Muzby

First off: YAY PAIGE!!!!

Second, from what I read in your other thread paige is eating 3/4 medallion 4 times a day? Does that mean she eats 3/4 of a medallion at every feeding or 3/4 split between four feedings?

If it's 3/4 every feeding, she's pooping more because she's eating a TON OF FOOD! LOL

A full grown chi might only eat 2 medallions a day, if they were bigger.. I'm not saying stop feeding her, she probably needs those nutrients... but just watch. I don't think she will need to continue eating that much for more than a few weeks before you can just leave it at 2 a day.


----------



## voodewlady

I started out giving her 1/2 a medallion at every feeding but she acted like she was still hungry after she was done. The medallions are all she is eating besides yogurt once a day. I feed her every 6 hrs. Should I cut her down to just 1/2 a medallion? I know she won't starve.


----------



## Mandy

Yayyyy paige glad shes eating better i wish we could get these medallions in the uk


----------



## rcj1095

How much does Paige weigh???


----------



## voodewlady

She weighs around 13 oz. I think I'm gonna cut her down to 1/2 a medallion per meal. She doesn't always finish 3/4 of one and I end up throwing it away.


----------



## Muzby

I would do 1/2 per meal. You want to feed her for her ADULT weight, so just go with 2 a day. She's a growing girl and it's not BAD for her.

Also, watch her stool.. if it becomes too hard and sandy textured, she will need to be fed some extra muscle meat or organ, okay?


----------



## carrera

hmm maybe I'm feeding too much- carrera and chicco normally get almost eat the same thing but Carrera just gets a bigger portion. For example this morning they each had 1 medallion then Chicco had 1 small ground beef ball and Carrera had 2 of the beef balls. Then for dinner I was planning to give them chicken breast, their portions are about 1/4 of the chicken breast with out the bone. Or last night they each had a chicken thigh meaty bone, I had portioned the chicken thigh and used the rest of the thigh for a no bone meal later, but this meal was with the bone with a good portion of meat left on the bone. The amount on the chicken thigh bone was less meat that you would get from a drumstick though. 
But sometimes I give them a little more during the day because I see them eating the dry food that I leave out, and its not always just a little nibble they will eat about 1/4 cup of kibble half way through the day too. Which is why I try to give them something else to eat during the day because I would rather them eat that instead of the kibble (Orijen). 
Neither of them are over weight or under active, their crazy if you ask me! You can definately feel and almost see their ribs, so I know that more food isnt effecting their weight. They don't get a lot of treats, maybe 1 a day? We give them a carrot or two every other day, so besides for the raw they don't really each much.


----------



## nicholeb5

I have to share my awesome news!!! Harley finally ate bone!!! I have been giving the boys raw chicken for weeks now and a few weeks ago I posted that he finally ate raw chicken breast but every time since I have given him anything with bone in it he won't touch it. I have been mostly giving him raw chicken in bite size pieces. So I gave him a small wing a few days ago with most of the meat just hanging off the bone and he pulled some of the meat off and then today he finally ate the whole wing, I almost cried I was so happy and proud!!!! Just had to share!!!


----------



## Brodysmom

nicholeb5 said:


> I have to share my awesome news!!! Harley finally ate bone!!! I have been giving the boys raw chicken for weeks now and a few weeks ago I posted that he finally ate raw chicken breast but every time since I have given him anything with bone in it he won't touch it. I have been mostly giving him raw chicken in bite size pieces. So I gave him a small wing a few days ago with most of the meat just hanging off the bone and he pulled some of the meat off and then today he finally ate the whole wing, I almost cried I was so happy and proud!!!! Just had to share!!!


Awesome news!! Isn't it great to watch them eat and see them crunching away? So satisfying!! It's so good to hear your good news.

Brodysmom


----------



## Muzby

How is everyone doing?

Thought I would post this I saw on another raw forum:

permission to cross post from the author taken from rawdogs:



> Is kibble safe?
> This is some major choir-preaching. But, I wanted to post it here for
> linking purposes. I wanted to write an article about the potential
> dangers of kibble; constructive criticism is welcome.
> --
> I often hear people say that they are considering feeding a raw diet, but
> are concerned with its safety. However, this research seems to be very
> one-sided: people will cross-examine possible hazards of raw feeding,
> but falsely accept commercial food as de facto safe. When making the
> decision for your dog's safety, rather than simply analyzing
> home-prepared diets, please compare it with the potential dangers
> inherent in kibble.
> BACTERIA
> This isn't necessarily a hazard per se, but it is worth mentioning because bacteria is often cited as a reason why people are trepidatious about feeding raw meat. However, kibble poses similar risks. Unlike processed food for humans, there are no procedures in place at kibble manufacturing plants to prevent cross-contamination of the finished product and kibble is not tested for salmonella prior to shipping. Notably, the source of a
> salmonella outbreak in 2007 was traced back to dry dog food [1] (if you
> must handle kibble, wash your hands afterward!). Interestingly enough,
> the dogs belonging to those infected with salmonella were not poisoned,
> despite actually consuming the contaminated food. Why? Dogs are
> classified as opportunistic carnivores. Their wolf ancestors would
> happily eat any rotting carcasses of prey they might encounter. Hence,
> dogs have a very short and acidic digestive tract. Food quickly passes
> through, eliminating the opportunity for infection from pathogens such
> as salmonella. As an aside, it is worth noting that this is why dogs do
> not break down plant cell walls as humans do; while we have many
> chemical digestive processes to ensure we extract the most nutrition
> out of our food, dogs conversely pass it quickly to safeguard against
> contamination. This is yet another reason why a plant-based diet (such
> as grain-based kibble) is not a species-appropriate diet.
> CHOKING, BLOAT, GASTRIC TORSION, ETC
> As noted above, dogs are carnivores. They do not have flat molars like we
> do with jaws designed for grinding their food. Rather, their mouths are
> lined with sharp teeth, adept for tearing, scissoring, slicing, and so on.
> 
> Perhaps you can extrapolate from this why an unnaturally dry pelleted food source such as kibble is physically inappropriate, and even hazardous, to a dog. Many dogs will gulp down and virtually inhale their kibble; as a result, 43,000 dogs die every year of gastric torsion (bloat), making it the leading killer of dogs [2]. It also presents risk of aspiration pneumonia (due to inhaled kibble) and choking.
> 
> Some are concerned about the possibility of bones causing choking. However, this is only a significant risk with bones that are inappropriately small -- that is, small enough for your dog to gulp down whole! Feeding a larger piece (for example, a turkey neck or chicken quarter for a medium-size dog) will cause your pet to eat slowly, crunching and tearing off bits of skin, meat, and bone and eating them piece by piece. Gastric perforation is only a significant risk with COOKED bones (which are brittle).
> 
> KIDNEY DAMAGE
> 
> A particularly stubborn rumor is that a high-protein diet (such as a raw
> meat-based diet) will cause kidney damage. However, this myth sources
> back to a 1985 study performed on rats [3]. Indeed, a diet high in
> protein is both unnatural and inappropriate for rodents. However, these
> results have never been duplicated on canines!
> 
> On the other hand, commercial kibble has an unnaturally low moisture content which robs the dog's body of water, and they do not know instinctively how much to drink. Water with food is vital for the processes of digestion, metabolization and elimination, especially for processing the
> poor-quality protein and excessive minerals found in kibble [4]. This
> places stress on the organs used in these biological processes -- yes,
> such as the kidneys.
> HARMFUL ADDITIVES
> If you take the time to read up on some of those weird chemicals listed in the ingredients in your dog food, what you find can be downright scary. For example, many (if not most) commercial kibbles (including high end
> brands!) add menadione as a source of synthetic vitamin K. You can read
> about the dangers of menadione here: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione
> . Ethoxyquin, propylene glycol, BHA, and BHT are all common additions
> as well. Note that I am not even touching on ingredients like byproducts, wheat middlings, peanut hulls, and other unnecessary fillers; I am just pointing out that there are potentially dangerous additives with no research confirming long-term safety, many of which are even banned for human consumption!
> 
> SODIUM PENTOBARBITAL
> 
> I know what you may be thinking -- sodium pentobarbital? The chemical
> they use to euthanize dogs and cats?! Surely I must be a crazy conspiracy theorist! But hear me out. Approximately 40% of euthanized animals are sent to rendering plants for disposal [5]. Rendering plants provide a useful means of disposing heads, feet, stomachs, intestines, spinal cords, tails, restaurant grease, feathers, bones, and dead or diseased animals rejected from slaughterhouses [7]. The output of these rendering plants provides a source of animal protein for pet food. And yes, this means that euthanized cats and dogs can be recycled into kibble [5].
> 
> Via [6]:
> 
> Most alarmingly, sodium pentobarbital, the drug used to euthanize dogs and cats, has also proven resilient to the cooking process. A study done by veterinarians at the University of Minnesota proved that the drug survived the rendering process.[187] Despite their conclusion that the amount of residue would be too small to have an impact on animals eating the rendered product, the veterinarians based this deduction on the assumption that renderers mix the euthanized pets with other ingredients throughout production.[188] The reality is that rendering companies mix whatever ingredients they have on hand, and the unregulated industry has no incentive to follow formulas. This means that the amount of sodium pentobarbital in any given batch of meat meal will fluctuate based on the particular number of euthanized animals included within the raw materials. In 2002 the FDA acknowledged that they have found “’very, very low levels’ of sodium pentobarbital...in some brands of dog food.”[189] Rest assured though, the FDA is investigating whether the low levels are of any “significance.”[190] Pet owners should find it troubling that experts see little health risk because “temperatures in the rendering process kill most agents of disease,”[191] just not the agent directly responsible for euthanizing pets.
> MELAMINE
> There have been numerous recalls of pet food due to melamine contamination, which is toxic and cannot be excreted from your pet's body. Don't take my word for it -- take a look at all the brands which were recalled in 2007: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/petfoodrecall/index.cfm . This leads me to my last and final point...
> LACK OF REGULATION
> What you see on the ingredient list may not be what you get. You can do your research, settle on a brand whose ingredients give you peace of mind,
> but still be feeding your pet undesirable or harmful ingredients unbeknownst to you.
> 
> Via [5]:
> 
> Three different state agencies have responsibility for inspection and enforcement of rendering factories, which leaves many gaps. To make sure no small animals go into pet food components, "we'd have to put a person at the rendering plant at all times it's in operation," said Steve Wong, acting branch chief of the Feed, Fertilizer and Livestock Drugs
> branch of the California Department of Food and Agriculture. His eight inspectors visit each rendering plant an average of once every 2 1/2 months.
> 
> In spot checks during the past two years, the state cited Sacramento Rendering on five occasions for product-labeling
> violations. In another case 15 months ago, a shipment of 52,280 pounds labeled as meat and bone meal headed to Sacramento Rendering from West Coast Rendering Co. in Los Angeles was found by state inspectors to be tankage [euthanized cats and dogs]. The state imposes no penalties for mislabeling by a rendering firm; it simply asks that the practice be corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> Via [6]:
> 
> Contaminated grain ingredients have resulted in at least three dog food recalls in the last ten years. In 1995, Nature’s Recipe pulled thousands of tons of dog food after discovering the presence of a fungus that produced the toxic substance vomitoxin.[246] In 1999, Doane Pet Care recalled dry dog food made at one of its plants, including the Walmart Brand,
> Ol’ Roy, after discovering another fungal toxin that ultimately killed 25 dogs.[247] Most recently, Diamond Pet Food recalled several brands of its dog food in 23 different states after at least 76 dogs were killed and dozens severely ill after ingesting aflatoxins caused by contaminated corn ingredients.[248]
> 
> 
> 
> TIP OF THE ICEBERG
> 
> Please note that I am not writing about whether or not kibble is a nutritious
> or even adequate diet upon which dogs can subsist. I do not believe it
> to be so, but that is another article for another time. When considering the dangers of kibble coupled with its nutritional insufficiency, the choice to feed raw was an easy one for me to make.


----------



## Muzby

How is everyone doing?

Thought I would post this I saw on another raw forum:

permission to cross post from the author taken from rawdogs:



> Is kibble safe?
> This is some major choir-preaching. But, I wanted to post it here for
> linking purposes. I wanted to write an article about the potential
> dangers of kibble; constructive criticism is welcome.
> --
> I often hear people say that they are considering feeding a raw diet, but
> are concerned with its safety. However, this research seems to be very
> one-sided: people will cross-examine possible hazards of raw feeding,
> but falsely accept commercial food as de facto safe. When making the
> decision for your dog's safety, rather than simply analyzing
> home-prepared diets, please compare it with the potential dangers
> inherent in kibble.
> BACTERIA
> This isn't necessarily a hazard per se, but it is worth mentioning because bacteria is often cited as a reason why people are trepidatious about feeding raw meat. However, kibble poses similar risks. Unlike processed food for humans, there are no procedures in place at kibble manufacturing plants to prevent cross-contamination of the finished product and kibble is not tested for salmonella prior to shipping. Notably, the source of a
> salmonella outbreak in 2007 was traced back to dry dog food [1] (if you
> must handle kibble, wash your hands afterward!). Interestingly enough,
> the dogs belonging to those infected with salmonella were not poisoned,
> despite actually consuming the contaminated food. Why? Dogs are
> classified as opportunistic carnivores. Their wolf ancestors would
> happily eat any rotting carcasses of prey they might encounter. Hence,
> dogs have a very short and acidic digestive tract. Food quickly passes
> through, eliminating the opportunity for infection from pathogens such
> as salmonella. As an aside, it is worth noting that this is why dogs do
> not break down plant cell walls as humans do; while we have many
> chemical digestive processes to ensure we extract the most nutrition
> out of our food, dogs conversely pass it quickly to safeguard against
> contamination. This is yet another reason why a plant-based diet (such
> as grain-based kibble) is not a species-appropriate diet.
> CHOKING, BLOAT, GASTRIC TORSION, ETC
> As noted above, dogs are carnivores. They do not have flat molars like we
> do with jaws designed for grinding their food. Rather, their mouths are
> lined with sharp teeth, adept for tearing, scissoring, slicing, and so on.
> 
> Perhaps you can extrapolate from this why an unnaturally dry pelleted food source such as kibble is physically inappropriate, and even hazardous, to a dog. Many dogs will gulp down and virtually inhale their kibble; as a result, 43,000 dogs die every year of gastric torsion (bloat), making it the leading killer of dogs [2]. It also presents risk of aspiration pneumonia (due to inhaled kibble) and choking.
> 
> Some are concerned about the possibility of bones causing choking. However, this is only a significant risk with bones that are inappropriately small -- that is, small enough for your dog to gulp down whole! Feeding a larger piece (for example, a turkey neck or chicken quarter for a medium-size dog) will cause your pet to eat slowly, crunching and tearing off bits of skin, meat, and bone and eating them piece by piece. Gastric perforation is only a significant risk with COOKED bones (which are brittle).
> 
> KIDNEY DAMAGE
> 
> A particularly stubborn rumor is that a high-protein diet (such as a raw
> meat-based diet) will cause kidney damage. However, this myth sources
> back to a 1985 study performed on rats [3]. Indeed, a diet high in
> protein is both unnatural and inappropriate for rodents. However, these
> results have never been duplicated on canines!
> 
> On the other hand, commercial kibble has an unnaturally low moisture content which robs the dog's body of water, and they do not know instinctively how much to drink. Water with food is vital for the processes of digestion, metabolization and elimination, especially for processing the
> poor-quality protein and excessive minerals found in kibble [4]. This
> places stress on the organs used in these biological processes -- yes,
> such as the kidneys.
> HARMFUL ADDITIVES
> If you take the time to read up on some of those weird chemicals listed in the ingredients in your dog food, what you find can be downright scary. For example, many (if not most) commercial kibbles (including high end
> brands!) add menadione as a source of synthetic vitamin K. You can read
> about the dangers of menadione here: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione
> . Ethoxyquin, propylene glycol, BHA, and BHT are all common additions
> as well. Note that I am not even touching on ingredients like byproducts, wheat middlings, peanut hulls, and other unnecessary fillers; I am just pointing out that there are potentially dangerous additives with no research confirming long-term safety, many of which are even banned for human consumption!
> 
> SODIUM PENTOBARBITAL
> 
> I know what you may be thinking -- sodium pentobarbital? The chemical
> they use to euthanize dogs and cats?! Surely I must be a crazy conspiracy theorist! But hear me out. Approximately 40% of euthanized animals are sent to rendering plants for disposal [5]. Rendering plants provide a useful means of disposing heads, feet, stomachs, intestines, spinal cords, tails, restaurant grease, feathers, bones, and dead or diseased animals rejected from slaughterhouses [7]. The output of these rendering plants provides a source of animal protein for pet food. And yes, this means that euthanized cats and dogs can be recycled into kibble [5].
> 
> Via [6]:
> 
> Most alarmingly, sodium pentobarbital, the drug used to euthanize dogs and cats, has also proven resilient to the cooking process. A study done by veterinarians at the University of Minnesota proved that the drug survived the rendering process.[187] Despite their conclusion that the amount of residue would be too small to have an impact on animals eating the rendered product, the veterinarians based this deduction on the assumption that renderers mix the euthanized pets with other ingredients throughout production.[188] The reality is that rendering companies mix whatever ingredients they have on hand, and the unregulated industry has no incentive to follow formulas. This means that the amount of sodium pentobarbital in any given batch of meat meal will fluctuate based on the particular number of euthanized animals included within the raw materials. In 2002 the FDA acknowledged that they have found “’very, very low levels’ of sodium pentobarbital...in some brands of dog food.”[189] Rest assured though, the FDA is investigating whether the low levels are of any “significance.”[190] Pet owners should find it troubling that experts see little health risk because “temperatures in the rendering process kill most agents of disease,”[191] just not the agent directly responsible for euthanizing pets.


----------



## Muzby

> MELAMINE
> There have been numerous recalls of pet food due to melamine contamination, which is toxic and cannot be excreted from your pet's body. Don't take my word for it -- take a look at all the brands which were recalled in 2007: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/petfoodrecall/index.cfm . This leads me to my last and final point...
> LACK OF REGULATION
> What you see on the ingredient list may not be what you get. You can do your research, settle on a brand whose ingredients give you peace of mind,
> but still be feeding your pet undesirable or harmful ingredients unbeknownst to you.
> 
> Via [5]:
> 
> Three different state agencies have responsibility for inspection and enforcement of rendering factories, which leaves many gaps. To make sure no small animals go into pet food components, "we'd have to put a person at the rendering plant at all times it's in operation," said Steve Wong, acting branch chief of the Feed, Fertilizer and Livestock Drugs
> branch of the California Department of Food and Agriculture. His eight inspectors visit each rendering plant an average of once every 2 1/2 months.
> 
> In spot checks during the past two years, the state cited Sacramento Rendering on five occasions for product-labeling
> violations. In another case 15 months ago, a shipment of 52,280 pounds labeled as meat and bone meal headed to Sacramento Rendering from West Coast Rendering Co. in Los Angeles was found by state inspectors to be tankage [euthanized cats and dogs]. The state imposes no penalties for mislabeling by a rendering firm; it simply asks that the practice be corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> Via [6]:
> 
> Contaminated grain ingredients have resulted in at least three dog food recalls in the last ten years. In 1995, Nature’s Recipe pulled thousands of tons of dog food after discovering the presence of a fungus that produced the toxic substance vomitoxin.[246] In 1999, Doane Pet Care recalled dry dog food made at one of its plants, including the Walmart Brand,
> Ol’ Roy, after discovering another fungal toxin that ultimately killed 25 dogs.[247] Most recently, Diamond Pet Food recalled several brands of its dog food in 23 different states after at least 76 dogs were killed and dozens severely ill after ingesting aflatoxins caused by contaminated corn ingredients.[248]
> 
> 
> 
> TIP OF THE ICEBERG
> 
> Please note that I am not writing about whether or not kibble is a nutritious
> or even adequate diet upon which dogs can subsist. I do not believe it
> to be so, but that is another article for another time. When considering the dangers of kibble coupled with its nutritional insufficiency, the choice to feed raw was an easy one for me to make.
> 
> [1]
> August 13th, 2007. Salmonella Outbreak in Pennsylvania Linked to Dry
> Pet Food. Retrieved August 21, 2009 from News Inferno Web site: http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/1712
> [2] March 6, 2009. The Bloat Project. Retrieved August 21, 2009 from http://www.ebloat.com/06/the-bloat-project.php
> [3]Andrews, P. and Bates, S. (1986). Dietary protein prior to renal
> ischemia dramatically affects postischemic kidney function. Kidney
> International, 30, 299-303. doi:10.1038/ki.1986.184
> [4] Contreras, S. (2007). Kibble vs Homemade. Retrieved August 21, 2009 from Our Dogs Online website: http://www.ourdogsonline.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/138383/Re_Kibble_vs_homemade#Post138383
> [5] Eckhouse, J. (1990, Feburary 19). How Dogs and Cats Get Recycled Into Pet Food. The San Francisco Chronicle, pg. C1.
> [6]Patrick, J. (2006). Deconstructing the Regulatory Façade: Why Confused Consumers Feed their Pets Ring Dings and Krispy Kremes. Retrieved August 21, 2009 from the LEDA at Harvard Law School web site: http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/784/Patrick06.html
> [7]. Martin, A. (1997). Food Pets Die For. (New Sage Press).




Her name is Erica (last name to come, she hasn't given it to me yet!)


----------



## rcj1095

GREAT post Kelly. We're doing great over here. I was just wondering about this thread. I still use the medallions as back up and they eat them well. The raw is working out great for mine. They love it and seem to be thriving. Still not positive if I'm giving too much or not so I'll have to get better about weighing the food and making sure I'm not overfeeding them. All good on your end???


----------



## BABY BABS

Pretty good over here. I'm still having a bit of trouble with Babs and diahrea. But, that was one of the reasons I wanted to switch, so maybe she's just going to suffer with it no matter what I feed her.  Right now, I've went strictly raw with her. No treats, people food, etc. If I'm working on training I will just use part of her food. We'll see if I can get her tummy straighted out.


----------



## Muzby

Good to hear, Robin! Wouldn't mind some more raw pics.. *hint hint* 

About the runs.. have you considered just uping her bone intake? Some dogs just need more! If you're giving her bone every 3-4 days, try every other day. FatDog was like that, she needed a TON of bone.

Everything here is good. We've found a CHEAP way to get rabbits - there's a farmers market not too far off, and we got 5 6-8lb rabbits for $20! Only "issue" is they were live.. so we had to "take care of them" ourselves... thank god for the SO!


----------



## BABY BABS

Muzby said:


> Good to hear, Robin! Wouldn't mind some more raw pics.. *hint hint*
> 
> About the runs.. have you considered just uping her bone intake? Some dogs just need more! If you're giving her bone every 3-4 days, try every other day. FatDog was like that, she needed a TON of bone.
> 
> Everything here is good. We've found a CHEAP way to get rabbits - there's a farmers market not too far off, and we got 5 6-8lb rabbits for $20! Only "issue" is they were live.. so we had to "take care of them" ourselves... thank god for the SO!


I feed them a pretty high amount of bone (more than 10%) and have tried a couple of weeks where bone is in every meal. Babs still got the runs. She's way better on the raw diet than anything else we've tried, but I'd like to cure it totally for her. She has it a couple of times every week, it seems. She's such a private dog, she hates when I have to clean her butt. Well, I don't like it much either, but I'm more concerned about her. The vet has found nothing that he thinks it could be, so we are looking at something she ingests upsets her tummy. The only thing I could think of after we switched to raw was that she still gets some people food, which includes hot dogs for training treats. I've changed and disinfected food and water bowls. She's not the type of dog that everything in reach is fair game to eat (that's Lovee's job). If this no people food/hot dogs doesn't work, I may try a week of pepto bismal every day. Maybe she has some sort of bacteria that isn't right in her system.


----------



## BABY BABS

Muzby said:


> Good to hear, Robin! Wouldn't mind some more raw pics.. *hint hint*
> 
> About the runs.. have you considered just uping her bone intake? Some dogs just need more! If you're giving her bone every 3-4 days, try every other day. FatDog was like that, she needed a TON of bone.
> 
> Everything here is good. We've found a CHEAP way to get rabbits - there's a farmers market not too far off, and we got 5 6-8lb rabbits for $20! Only "issue" is they were live.. so we had to "take care of them" ourselves... thank god for the SO!


Oh, BTW what's an SO?


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## Muzby

Have you tried Slippery Elm? That worked wonders for FatDog too. Get it in capsules, and give her one whole capsule a day for 14 days and see if there is any improvment. I use it myself for my IBS and it works like a charm for those really bad days. Any health food store will have it.

SO = significant other  I made him "deal with" the bunnies.. I just couldn't do it.

Edited to add: We actually feed more like 20% bone.  As long as it works, it's okay! FatDog was getting 30-40% bone while her system got used to the raw and healed from her previous problems.


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## rcj1095

OMG Kelly, my hub and I could never do that. We'd have every rabbit named and they'd be in our house as pets. We are just like that. I do need to get some new pics of my angels. Someone had too much bone cuz there's been a couple of poo's like sand. Not sure who but I think I need to weigh and be a little more careful about my portions. I gave them each a small portion of kibble the other day with the nupro gravy on it. I wanted to see how they felt. Three of them ate it reluctantly and Lily would not even have one bite of it. She was starving too, you could hear her stomach growl. Too funny isn't it? She waited until dinner and then chowed her raw!!!


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## Muzby

Robin - it was NOT fun.  I just have to keep telling myself that this is food for my kids, and with Alex (SO) out of work since February things are tight and this is a way to save on food (we don't have to BUY much, but they all love rabbit and it's too expensive to buy otherwise). I just imagine we are farmers and self-sufficient.. this is all stuff I have to get used to if I want to have my own piece of land one day. Even if it makes me cry. 

It's so cool that they turned their noses up at the kibble! Well.. maybe not to you if you have a freezer full of it. LOL I just enjoy hearing how much they love their meat.

We never get sandy poops here anymore.. even with the larger bone content, everyone has nice poops!

Tracy! We started to get more bone in lamb lately, and everyone is eating it - Betty loves it. How is Brody doing with his lamb?


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## Brodysmom

Hey Kelly!! Thanks for posting that good article. I like reading stuff like that as it confirms we are doing the right thing.

I would love to find rabbit but haven't really looked too hard. I'm sure I could find it if I looked, but you are BRAVE to buy live ones and dispatch them! I couldn't do that! No way! We would have new pets if I brought those home. 

I did buy an assortment of dried meats from Hare Today. I got the dehydrated turkey, dehydrated beef lung, and dehydrated ground rabbit! Brody loves them all. He really likes the ground rabbit the best. I give him a piece every day about half the size of a hot dog. That's probably quite a bit of rabbit once it rehydrates in his system. It's sort of like crumbly beef jerky.

http://www.hare-today.com/index.php?cPath=22&osCsid=1f0a47f721b8f1701f73090bd264aff4

I also bought some ZiwiPeak. I know it's not raw and it's not the same as raw, but it is good for traveling and easy. He likes it too which is a miracle. It's got to be better than kibble, right?

Brodysmom


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## Muzby

Hey! Whatever works.  As long as you keep it exciting for him, and mix it up I'm sure he will get what he needs.. and OFCOURSE it's better than kibble! LOL

So are you doing a rotation? ZiwiPeak/Raw/Dehydrated/etc?


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## Brodysmom

Muzby said:


> Hey! Whatever works.  As long as you keep it exciting for him, and mix it up I'm sure he will get what he needs.. and OFCOURSE it's better than kibble! LOL
> 
> So are you doing a rotation? ZiwiPeak/Raw/Dehydrated/etc?


Yes, I'm doing a rotation. One ounce of ZiwiPeak most days. (It's a dehydrated raw that is like jerky bits). Supplemented with fresh raw which is usually cornish hens, lamb ribs, beef roast. (Haven't tried pork yet.) Then he gets the dehydrated green tripe, dehydrated ground rabbit, beef lungs, turkey and also chicken strips. Those are given more as treats, not as a meal. Once a week he gets a meal of liver and kidney.

We are completely off of kibble! So far it's working great! Small firm stools once a day and tons of energy. 

He doesn't chew on his bully sticks or lamb ears as much now. I think he gets his chewing exercise on the raw and doesn't feel the need to obsessively chew on bully sticks! He has those available all the time though if he wants one.

This little guy is like the energizer bunny. He can go for 2 mile brisk walks with hubby and not be tired. Runs circles around the cats. He doesn't have an ounce of flab on him. He's so muscular.  I credit the diet! Thanks so much for pointing us in this direction Kelly!

Brodysmom


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## BABY BABS

Muzby said:


> Have you tried Slippery Elm? That worked wonders for FatDog too. Get it in capsules, and give her one whole capsule a day for 14 days and see if there is any improvment. I use it myself for my IBS and it works like a charm for those really bad days. Any health food store will have it.
> 
> SO = significant other  I made him "deal with" the bunnies.. I just couldn't do it.
> 
> Edited to add: We actually feed more like 20% bone.  As long as it works, it's okay! FatDog was getting 30-40% bone while her system got used to the raw and healed from her previous problems.


OOO, I will definitely try Slippery Elm, for me and Babs. I too have IBS (which is why I always feel so sorry for Babs). My husband has done the hunting/eating rabbits, deer etc. We are looking into doing that as well. We have plenty of wild rabbits around. So that would actually be free food.


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## Zethsmommy

Kelly thanks for all that wonderful info.

Things are going well for my two with the raw. We are completely kibble free. Zeth and Sandy would rather starve than eat kibble. They both now get a varied diet of raw. We are doing chicken, turkey, beef, lamb, veal, venison and cornish hens. I also give them yogurt, pumpkin and Merrick canned tripe and salmon. 
Neither one will touch Rabbit. I've tried raw rabbit, NV medallions, dehydrated and they won't touch it, period. I did return the NV rabbit and exchanged it for venison which they both love. 
I do ocassionally give them the NV medallions or patties when I'm away so it's easier for the kids to feed them and not have to supervise them eating. 
Both Sandy and Zeth have lost a considerably amount of weight since on the raw which they get morning and night. Sandy and Zeth both have a new body shape. Zeth actually has ribs you can feel. Neither are skinny looking. Sandy weighed 65lbs before the raw and Zeth weighed 10.2lbs. Sandy now weighs 58lbs and Zeth weighs 8.9lbs. With less weight on Zeth, his legs don't seem to be bothering him as much.
The vet is amazed at how well they both look and feel. Zeth feels like silk when you hold him. Shedding has almost completely stopped and Sandy has regrown all her hair on her sides from allergies.
No problems with poo unless Sandy steals Zeth's bone which happens on occasion if i'm not quick enough.
We are doing about 30% bone a week as that seems to be what's required of them for consistent good poo. 
Both have pretty much given up bully sticks or rawhides. 
We switched all snacks to 100% dehydrated meat treats.

I'm still in a transition position with raw feeding with the cats. So far they will eat small bits of ground beef, the NV Prairie rabbit and salmon kibble.


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## carrera

So Carrera stopped eating that liver "smoothie" after the first day! I've tried cooking it, mixing it, putting smelly fish oil on it-shes so stubborn! I wish I would have video taped the fish oil episode, she would take a piece of the liver that had oil on it, move it around on her tongue and then spit it out! she did this 3 times then just walked away
Chicco is doing great, he eats anything


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## FireFox

I have been reading this post for quite a while now, but still can't finish it, that's very long 
I have been giving mine raw + kibble , but the thing with raw meat is - they don't chew it, they just swallow without chewing  it's scary, i have tried to give them bigger pieces but still the same  Is that normal? Or should i cut really small pieces of meat for them?


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## Muzby

Carrera may just dislike liver.. have you tried different kinds? Lamb liver has a different consistancy. Less slimy more spongey.

That or just grind it in with some tripe (gross smelling, masks pretty much everything) and sneak it to her. 

As for the gulpers: if large pieces doesn't work - try freezing. If THAT doesn't work cut it TINY until the novelty wears off.. often they just gulp because OMG GOOD FOODZ!


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## FireFox

Thanks Muzby 
But i remember when i had my dachshund,my Vet said that you can't give cold food to the dogs (like just out of fridge), is that so? I know it might sound stupid  but i just want to check that with you


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## Muzby

Cold and frozen are fine. I think the only reason I would worry is a REALLY hot day, and the dog is over heated.. then the cold food might cause cramping and bloat which is dangerous.


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## FireFox

Oh thanks, great info


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## Mom of 4 Chi's

I am so glad everyone is doing so well with the raw! This thread is so great, and I love reading everyone's success!


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## MoochiBaby

Hi Everyone, 
I am new to this forum and I also feed raw to my chihuahua. Moochi has been on raw for a while now since we brought her home at 2 months of age. She has never got sick of eating raw or got tired of it. I rotate different kinds of proteins everyday, but it's really easy for me to get different variety of meat here in Los Angeles since there are so many ethnic stores here. It is such a great diet for them both physically and mentally. I recommend this diet for everyone who has dogs, cats, or ferrets. When I first started, I didn't even know there were commercial raw out there, I just put her on a RMB diet. My Moochi gets chicken, turkey, cornish hen, pork, beef, lamb, buffalo, quail, rabbit, duck, silkies, and deer meat. Most people can't imagine a 5 lb chihuahua can eat the way she does, most of the time I just tell people that in her mind, she thinks she is a big old wolf.


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## carrera

Thanks for the tips- I'll keep my eye out for different kinds of livers. She is still getting the medallions regularly which have organs in them so I know shes not terribly lacking but I do want to introduce new things. In another one of my threads I talked about "a place for paws" raw food, they ship their food in coolers and I also found a store that can order it in for me. I was considering trying their "organ blend" beef, it has beef liver, heart,kidney, spleen and thymus. 
heres the link again- www.aplaceforpaws.com


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## TwinTails

Awesome! I signed up and got a free coupon  Next time I go uptown I will be picking up some Raw for my kids! Both cats and dogs will go on this if it works well for them, thanks for sharing the link!


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## Muzby

Yay more people trying it! 

Just a note on the cats issue: do not expect a warm reception. Cats are notorious for being hard to transition - most times it takes hiding it in their wet food for a while before they will even eat it! We have four cats, and going by the slowest one to transition to raw it took us 8mths. Which is actually pretty darn good for cats!


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## TwinTails

Thanks for the warning  My cats are pretty spoiled boogers, at least I think they are (they may not agree, lol). They love canned food, but until recently I didn't know that it was good for them (I was still under the impression that it was crap filled with sugar, not knowing the differences between ingredients). Although my cats love any kind of raw meat - I recently gave them raw beef as a treat, and they all went nuts for it  Hopefully they will take to it (although they are picky about their treats). Well, I will let you all know how they fare once I pick some up!


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## Jerry'sMom

Would it be possible for someone to hit the highlights and start a new thread?
I am interested in feeding raw but I don't have the time to get through all of these posts.


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## Muzby

You could always just PM one of the "veterans" like myself, Tracy, Robin, etc. Any one of us could help you through the initial start-up.


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## Brodysmom

Any updates from you raw feeders? How's everything going??

Now that we are back from vacation, we are back on track with the raw. Brody ate his way through a cornish hen this week. Finished it up yesterday. He had a lamb rib with extra lamb meat and liked it. Tonight was his organ meal... liver and kidney. I know I overfeed a little on the organs but he likes them. (Which is like a miracle because he doesn't like ANYTHING.) He got a thumb sized piece of kidney and one of liver. That's probably about twice what he needs. But as long as he tolerates it, it should be OK, I'd think. Don't want to over-do on the vitamin A though that's in the liver. He also had a few cubes of raw steak. I'm trying to bulk him up just a bit. He's still a little ribby. He's got that lean build, which is fine, but I don't want him to be too skinny!!

How's everyone doing? What did your guys eat this last week?

brodysmom


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## BABY BABS

Mine have had venison all week. My brother cleaned out his freezer from last year making room for this year. He had two icecream buckets full of venison that he was going to grind for burger but never got to. Thank goodness because the girls love the venison. So far their favs are the venison and the beef heart. I've been dehydrating liver just for training treats and they go nuts for those too.


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## TwinTails

Well, I have someone willing to donate a freezer full of meat to us  She's cleaning this weekend and will deliver it to us when she's done!


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## MoochiBaby

you guys are soo lucky that you get free meat. I wish I can find free meat here in LA. I tried Craigslist, but no one replied.


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## TwinTails

I've put ads on Craigslist, UsedKamloops, and Kijiji. Anywhere that is free I've posted ads


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## BABY BABS

MoochiBaby said:


> you guys are soo lucky that you get free meat. I wish I can find free meat here in LA. I tried Craigslist, but no one replied.


I would try the local sportsmen shops. When they're in shopping for new hunting supplies might be a good time to get them to think about emptying out last years stuff. Also, do you have any place that processes meat such as deer or beef? You maybe could speak to the owner and see if he'd let you put up a sign there. Oh, and when you put it on Craigslist what section did you put it in? Maybe try the hunting/sportsmen section.


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