# Need help with crate training please



## Kat & Zoey (Dec 15, 2013)

Hello, I need some ideas on crate training Zoey, she will go in crate but then whines and crys while she is in there. she has never been in a crate so its all new to her and me. I bought the crate to put her in when I am not home. I started by leaving the door open and letting her go in and out for a couple days and she seems fine with that. but as soon as I close it she crys and whines the whole time. please any ideas? I am going crazy with the crying and whining. Guess i should add she is usually with me 24/7 but I am getting ready to start a new quarter at school in January and want to get her use to the crate.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Just ignore the whining and crying. Maybe give her a stuffed kong that is frozen, so she has to work on it? Maybe leave for 1/2 an hour? Eventually you could leave and come back in an hour. How old is Zoey? I forget.


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## Kat & Zoey (Dec 15, 2013)

Zoey is around 4 months old


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## hwrios (Dec 16, 2013)

Why do you want her in a crate? I just don't get the concept of that-- hope I'm not offending anyone, but would you like to be locked up in a little crate all day? 

Of course, I've always cringed when I see any kind of animal in a cage or crate or whatever... not temporarily, but when they are there for life, or there all day or night... that really breaks my heart. Even fish in a tank-- I just don't get it. The fish look so sad in there.... or a bird in a cage?! That just seems like one of the most wicked things to do to an animal that is meant to fly. Of course, I know some birds get injured or whatever, but to lock up a perfectly healthy animal, I will never ever understand. 

Is there any possible alternative to crating your dog? Can you put her in just one room that is safe for her (I assume you are concerned about her safety of being home alone?) Hopefully at least, it's a large crate with plenty of room for her to run around in. If that's the case, then she is probably not whining because of the crate itself, but because you aren't with her. If that's the case, you have to completely ignore the crying. My dogs sleep in the living room and when I went to bed, they would stand by my door and cry. But they only did it for about one minute. It was a very sad minute, but they soon found something else to do when they saw that I didn't respond.


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## debrawade10 (Oct 10, 2013)

When used properly a crate becomes the dogs safe haven. During the day when I'm home, my dogs go into their crates on their own. They view it as their den. They will go in if they are tired at night, usually by 8:00..that's where they sleep also. It is used when they want to get away from anything. When they all three play they run in and out of them. 
I use an x-pen for all three of mine. It is a little bigger than 4x4. 
The key for me was once they are in there, ignore any noises they are making. Be matter of fact, quietly put them in. I never turn around or make a big deal. If you go to them when they are whining you are rewarding the whining in their mind. 
Start like Susan said with shorter times. When I come back I never acknowledge them verbally, but quietly go and let them out when I am ready.
This has worked beautifully with my last 4 dogs. 
I never crated before that but not have it any other way now. It is invaluable in so many situations, I would hesitate to ever leave my dogs out unattended, only because accidents can and do happen. 
Approach it in a positive way!!


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## hwrios (Dec 16, 2013)

4' x 4' is pretty huge, so that's basically like a whole room to them. 

I would just be worried if someone was putting their dog in a tiny little thing all day. 

The apartment I live in now, when I came to look at it, had a dog (a dachshund?) in a TINY crate that had to be about 18" x 20" , and he could barely turn around in it. I guess when someone says they are crating a dog, I just imagine that poor little thing. 

I guess size really does matter in this situation. lol A 4x4 ft crate for a little chihuahua would be like me sitting in my living room, so I guess I don't really have a problem with crates, just tiny crates.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

that is why I like the puppy playpens. The 'little' sleeping crate is in there, with a large pee pad down, water and food dishes on the side. They can come out of the pen any time during the day. The puppy (19+ months) goes in her pen and crate to sleep alot. Very comfortable. The other reason to get a puppy/dog used to a small crate is that IF they have to go to the hospital, they WILL be in a metal cage. If they are not used to a small crate, they might panic. I bring my ferret travel cases to the vet, and they put the carriers into the metal cage!


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## hwrios (Dec 16, 2013)

I'm not against cages... I just don't like it when people keep their pet in a too small cage around the clock, or worse-- their whole life. 

I have different crates for my pets and carriers. I put my oldest chi in the crate a lot in the mornings when we were getting ready for school/work because that was his hyper time and we were so busy running around the house, I didn't want him getting stepped on because he would follow us around trying to play with our feet. But I wouldn't ever leave him in it because it's way too small. If I had a gigantic crate that could fit his bed and food and pee pad, then I would feel fine leaving him in that if I needed to.


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## Kat & Zoey (Dec 15, 2013)

Ok so I have given up on the Crate Idea, it was only for an hour or so while i am gone. and it is for a large dog, so she had lots of room to move and play. I have bought two baby gates and have blocked the kitchen off one in each doorway. I am going back to college in a few weeks and need to make sure she is safe while I am gone. I am only gone for an hour class 3 times a day. I am trying to leave her in there for 10 minutes at a time to get use to it. she just cries..... I try to ignore her but she doesn't stop ... we have tried this for several hours this morning and it ends with the same result crying. I am at my wits end. I have neighbors and the crying is very loud. Can someone please help me with any ideas on how to get her to adjust to being confined in the kitchen for short periods of time.


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## txxx (Dec 1, 2013)

Try putting her in while you do things around the house that is what I have done. They get used to you moving around and feel safe. With my puppy its only the night time wake up that she makes any noise. I don't talk at night or get her out of her playpen but feed her a little then point to her bed she gets right on in shes getting a bit cheeky last couple of nights but I just point when she climbs out and she's turning around and going back in.

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## Kat & Zoey (Dec 15, 2013)

Zoey has only been in the kitchen area today, we have tried this for 10 minutes at a time over and overand she just wont come to terms thaqt she is in there. it sounds like I am killing her... she is screaming and crying and its so loud you can hear her outside. I need to be able to leave for an hour at a time without her whinning and crying. this morning i have been in the kitchen with her and she was fine, as soon as I climbed over the gate she screams, right now she can see me in the living room as I am at my desk and she is just crying. I have my back to her and am ignoring her ( i am thinking if I don't respond she will give up) but I am having a very hard time with her crying.... (big softy). also this morning I took my granddaughter to school and was gone 5 min, ( school is 2 blocks away) and when i pulled up outside I could hear her crying or screaming . just breaks my heart but I need her to know that she is safe in the kitchen and not crying the whole time I am gone, and that it will just be for a little bit. Does the whinning/crying/screaming go away? Will she get use to this and if so how long does it take for her to realize its ok in the kitchen area.... 
In the kitchen she has the crate with the door fastened open, a bed in the crate, her smaller bed on the floor, her blanket, toys, food, water, potty pads,and she has lots of room to run and play as it is a very large kitchen.


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

In most situations ignoring the crying will work. I crate train all my dogs (And the same concept should work for staying in a pen/area) and I have at times with new fosters resorted to putting my hearing protection from work on. The thing is that if you give in EVEN ONCE a persistent dog will learn that their crying is working, and if it works they have no reason to stop. 

If they waiting it out is not working for you- One thing you can do is climb over the barrier, but don't go far. If they stop whining for even a second go back and reward them. At first it might be just a millisecond of silence, but go reward that. Then do it again, and again and again. Eventually start waiting for a longer and longer quiet before rewarding. Make sure to do this in every situation that the dog is being let out too. So if you come home and they are crying and going crazy wait until they are quiet then go let them out right away. Like I said in the beginning it might only be a tiny bit of quiet, but you will extend that later. 

Eventually just extend the amount of time and the level of quiet that they need to show to be let out or for you to come back. My dogs know they are expected to sit calmly before being released from crates- but it does take a little time to learn. They will eventually learn that whining does not cause you to come back- being calm and quiet does! Just be patient and consistent and you will get there eventually. Remember puppies are like babies, they have short attention spans and it takes them a while to learn that the world does not revolve around them. Learning to control frustration and have patience takes time- but if you teach it young in situations like this your dog will carry it to other ares of life later.

The other thing that helps is making sure your dog is nice and tired when they go in. Take a nice long walk or play for a while before they are going to be confined, that can help a lot too.


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

I wanted to add that if you don't think you hear any silence ever look for a moment when they are breathing. Anything that is a break in the action- no matter how small. The dog does not really need to have stopped barking on purpose in the beginning, you just need a tiny window of silence and a breath is enough. They will try to figure out what they did to cause the reward after a few goes at it and they will eventually realize it is because they stopped barking.


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## Britt.L (Nov 18, 2013)

We once had a lab with horrible separation anxiety. ..before leaving him gated we would play play play until we couldn't play anymore...give him something to chew or occupy him and eventually he adjusted. Dont give up!


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## Kat & Zoey (Dec 15, 2013)

Oh Thank heaven, I hade 8 minutes of silence when Zoey was in the kitchen, She was in there a total of 10 minutes and cried at first but then got quiet, laid in her bed and chewed on a bullystick. Maybe she is getting it? I want her to be comfortable in the kitchen . I am sure that some of it is separation anxiety, as she has spend 24/7 with me for the past 3 weeks that I have had her. This is a positive start, and I know it wont happen overnight but looks like progress to me


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

Sounds great! Make sure if you are able to you go back to reward her while she is still being calm. If you wait until she is barking again she could start thinking the barking is bringing you back. Either way it sounds like you are making great progress.


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## zellko (Jul 3, 2013)

*Dogs love crates!*

When I first got Mickie last spring I wasn't planning to use a crate However, after lots of reading I had a different perspective. Dogs are naturally den animals who feel safe in small, cozy spaces. Unlsess they have a bad experience, most like their crates. Here is a pic of Mickie just 15 min. after his Nylabone crate arrived in the mail. I was still reading the instructions when I looked over and there he was. He promply took a nap. Crating is not cruel or mean. It makes training sooooo much easier and keeps pup safe.


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## Kat & Zoey (Dec 15, 2013)

Well here's an Update:
Zoey has gotten use to being gated in the kitchen for short periods of time . There is still some whining and crying but only for a minute or two then she quits, realizing I wont go get her.

my problem now is she also wont poo in there, it is a very large L shaped kitchen and I have potty pads down for her, she will pee on the pads but its like she refuses to poo in the kitchen at all. 

I feed her in the kitchen and then leave her in there for a while but she wont poo. she will poo down the hall if i don't watch her close. 

any ideas to get her to go on the pads or in kitchen at all? thanks


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## hwrios (Dec 16, 2013)

I've noticed that my dogs don't like to go potty anywhere near their food or bedding. Make sure they are on opposite ends of the kitchen. Also, try to make the potty area a little more "private" somehow, by putting it slightly behind something.


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## SWHouston (Aug 23, 2013)

I have a couple Crates, but never use them.
My Utility Room/Kitchen/Breakfast Room is Tiled. Those areas are where my guys are fed/watered, have toys and day beds in them as well. I also have a Doggy Door which leads out to a XXsecure area for pottys. When I have a Puppy, and need to go out, I just shut the door to the rest of the house and leave them right where they're used to being anyway. So no objections, save for them wanting to go with me. If you have a Tiled area like I do, you might just leave it in there since it's nice and large, possibly install a Gate if you don't have a regular door.


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## hwrios (Dec 16, 2013)

My entire house is hardwood and tile because I loathe carpeting and have a lot of allergies (including dogs and cats lol).

Carpet would definitely complicate having a puppy though. I would hate to have to clean up accidents with that. 

I would LOVE to have a doggie/cat door that led outside to a safe enclosed area... that will definitely be on my wish list when we move. I'm also going to make my husband put up a little fenced in area in our yard where I can let them out for a while on their own. I actually grew up in the country and when we had dogs we would just open the door and let them out! It seems crazy when I think about that now because for the past 15 years, every place I've lived has been with sidewalks and busy streets (even lived in the Bronx-- a horrible place to have dogs!)


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## SWHouston (Aug 23, 2013)

hwrios said:


> I would LOVE to have a doggie/cat door that led outside to a safe enclosed area


The Door I installed is something like this...
Hale Pet Door - Door Pet Door
I had it installed in under 30 minutes, and I swear it's the best investment I've EVER made. I have four Dogs, and the time I've saved escorting them in and out to potty has been a life saver. Plus they go out to run and play by themselves as well.

A Door is NOT for every one though...
Besides having a very secure perimeter, there is a very heavy Tree Canopy overhead. When having small Dogs, one must look up as well !


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## Kat & Zoey (Dec 15, 2013)

Twords the back of my " L " shaped kitchen I have her potty pad there and she does use them ( pee). in the front of the kitchen is her food, water, bed, toys ect. but she wont poo in the kitchen at all. the room is about 20 feet long and about 15 feet wide then there's this " L "shape that is gated off to the hallway, there are no doors just doorways. and 2 gates. it is plenty far away from her bed, food, ect. I live alone so its not like she would be disturbed in the back area there, and the kitchen is tile floor , my house is all carpet but kitchen. i tried to make a drawing of kitchen area lol to show what i mean...


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

hwrios said:


> 4' x 4' is pretty huge, so that's basically like a whole room to them.
> 
> I would just be worried if someone was putting their dog in a tiny little thing all day.
> 
> ...


I don't like the idea of a dog in a _tiny_ crate for extended periods of time either. However, tiny crates are excellent tools for potty training, especially with dogs that have trouble grasping the concept. In that case, the crate size should only be enough for the dog to be comfortable in (they should be able to stand up straight and turn around) because the idea is that the dog won't go to the bathroom where they sleep so the crate can't be too big or they will designate the other half of it as a bathroom area. Obviously this isn't intended for super long periods of time, just when the person can't be watching the dog like a hawk for any signals that they have to go. 

Maybe the crate the dachshund was in was regularly used for that purpose and they just popped their dog in there while you were viewing their property to keep them safe? We crate trained Odie during the night as a puppy in a small crate until she got over the whining stage and then we used it with the gate open in a playpen until we were confident enough for her to sleep with us or in her own bed. Of course we let her out periodically to do her business and have a snack (every 2 hours at first). Now Odie is no longer crated, ever, but she LOVES her crate if we ever have it out. Having crate trained her as a puppy means that it's a breeze to get her in a crate or carrier if we ever need to. We just tell her to go in and she does, because she loves it. We made sure that our cats are comfortable in crates too, by leaving them out for them to use as beds and it makes trips to the vet so much easier.

Anyway, just thought I'd add that! I never knew the positives of crate training before Odie but now that I do, I recommend crate training to all my friends who get puppies.


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## Kat & Zoey (Dec 15, 2013)

I dont have a way to put in a doggy door as I rent and she is mostly in the kitchen when I am home or when I am gone as my desk for school/ work is also in the kitchen, so we spend most of our time in there. but she refuses to go poo in the kitchen. I am thinking to not letting her run around the rest of the house. the only thing i can do at this point I think is to keep her in the kitchen with me or to just hold her when we are in living area. I need her to know that the kitchen is the place to poo not the hall floor. she never has a pee accident, she always goes on the potty pad. I am confused. she gets lots of praise and love and treats when she goes but it seems to be not working with the poo part of it... please any suggestions.


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

Kat & Zoey said:


> I dont have a way to put in a doggy door as I rent and she is mostly in the kitchen when I am home or when I am gone as my desk for school/ work is also in the kitchen, so we spend most of our time in there. but she refuses to go poo in the kitchen. I am thinking to not letting her run around the rest of the house. the only thing i can do at this point I think is to keep her in the kitchen with me or to just hold her when we are in living area. I need her to know that the kitchen is the place to poo not the hall floor. she never has a pee accident, she always goes on the potty pad. I am confused. she gets lots of praise and love and treats when she goes but it seems to be not working with the poo part of it... please any suggestions.


Hmmmm, not sure if this would work but do you think it would help to actually move some of her poo to the pee pad so she can see it there? I know that people recommend doing that with pee when first training.


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

Kat & Zoey said:


> I dont have a way to put in a doggy door as I rent and she is mostly in the kitchen when I am home or when I am gone as my desk for school/ work is also in the kitchen, so we spend most of our time in there. but she refuses to go poo in the kitchen. I am thinking to not letting her run around the rest of the house. the only thing i can do at this point I think is to keep her in the kitchen with me or to just hold her when we are in living area. I need her to know that the kitchen is the place to poo not the hall floor. she never has a pee accident, she always goes on the potty pad. I am confused. she gets lots of praise and love and treats when she goes but it seems to be not working with the poo part of it... please any suggestions.


That is a great idea. When I am housetraining a dog they are either confined or on a leash attached to me 100% of the time. It works great to just supervise or confine them totally, it I s not even a last resort method, it is what I do from the start. She has to poop eventually and if you are tied to her you can easily direct her to the pad. If you stick to this plan totally she will be housetrained in no time.

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## first_time_chi_owner (Oct 12, 2012)

We went through the same thing. I was adamant that I was not going to crate when arnie was alone but our neighbour complained that he was barking when we wernt there. I turned to this amazing forum for help and crating was the best thing we ever did. He's only crated when we go out. 4hours maximum and he goes to sleep in it at night and then gets on the bed halfway thru the night. It's big enough for him to stand up, turn around and dig at his blankets but it's not massive. We found that covering the crate up stopped the whining almost instantly. In the day when he is at my MIL he chooses to sleep in there instead of on someone's lap


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## SWHouston (Aug 23, 2013)

KrystalLeigh said:


> move some of her poo to the pee pad so she can see it there?


That does work, and...

Actually, our guys don't like to live where they potty, and want there to be a separation. Often times, when they potty in the wrong place, the scent confuses them, so...

Pick/clean it up, "descent" with a spray, THEN lay a treat close to that area !
If anything should "reset" the location that would ! 

That way they will start associating that place with "living", not "pottying".


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## Kat & Zoey (Dec 15, 2013)

Here is an update on what seems to be working for Zoeys Potty training / Crate training. I have tried several things in the past 2 weeks and was at my wits end with her whining and crying, but we seem to of came to a compermise between us...lol... I did block the whole kitchen off for her but that just seemed to give her way to much room to roam and poo everywhere. so I have attached her new pay pen to her crate and she now has her bed area in the crate with the door open and a 4 ft x 4 ft area to walk around in and at the end of that area she has her potty pads. for the past 3 days now she has only gone on the potty pad. She is in the play pen when I am not able to watch her closely. she seems to be comfortable in the crate as the Whining and Crying has stopped. Which is GREAT as my neighbors were complaining. She is still close to me as her crate is next to my desk in the kitchen and so she can see me . I had a lot of mixed feelings about crating or not crating her, but I have came to the understanding that it is better for her to have a small area to run in while we are still learning where to potty and where not to... I have read diffrent peoples opinions on crates and I feel that this is the best option for us. she is not cooped up in a crate all day, I just want her safe when I am not here to watch her.


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

Kat & Zoey said:


> Here is an update on what seems to be working for Zoeys Potty training / Crate training. I have tried several things in the past 2 weeks and was at my wits end with her whining and crying, but we seem to of came to a compermise between us...lol... I did block the whole kitchen off for her but that just seemed to give her way to much room to roam and poo everywhere. so I have attached her new pay pen to her crate and she now has her bed area in the crate with the door open and a 4 ft x 4 ft area to walk around in and at the end of that area she has her potty pads. for the past 3 days now she has only gone on the potty pad. She is in the play pen when I am not able to watch her closely. she seems to be comfortable in the crate as the Whining and Crying has stopped. Which is GREAT as my neighbors were complaining. She is still close to me as her crate is next to my desk in the kitchen and so she can see me . I had a lot of mixed feelings about crating or not crating her, but I have came to the understanding that it is better for her to have a small area to run in while we are still learning where to potty and where not to... I have read diffrent peoples opinions on crates and I feel that this is the best option for us. she is not cooped up in a crate all day, I just want her safe when I am not here to watch her.


Sounds like it is working great! There is nothing wrong with crates, even small ones that are not like a giant playpen if they are used correctly. All of my dogs were crate trained to an appropriately sized airline type kennel (one that can stand up and turn around in but not much more), don't feel bad if it is what is working for you!

A dog would much rather have less freedom and be able to always do the right thing than be given a bunch of freedom and being scolded all the time. As others have said it is cruel to lock a dog in a crate for 12 hours a day but that is not what you are doing.


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## Evelyn (Oct 14, 2012)

I crate Ike and Holly when I go out, to dangerous to leave them run of the house when not here, they can chew on electric wires, chew on furniture etc. I don't crate my pug as she is 7 years old and is out of all those dangerous stages. Plus I don't want to come home to a house full of pee and poop. They both cry when I leave , but I know it is for their own good. I am retired so they are not in them all day, except when going out for a day trip. My pug was crated when she was little. Holly is crated at night because she still goes potty during the night, pug, Sadie and Ike sleep with me.


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## Angel1210 (Mar 14, 2011)

I am totally on board with crate training! While I have some issues with Angel, he is quite well behaved! We got him at nine weeks old, had never been in a crate and took to it like a fish to water! Lol! I have never seen anything like it! He does not like to go in the car unless he is in his carrier! When he sees us getting ready to go out, he gets all excited and runs to his crate! He usually gets a treat or kong. He sleeps in his crate at night! He also sleeps through the night without waking to potty!! He's done this since we got him! I have NEVER had a dog like this!! 

I hope it works out well for you. And remember, it all takes time! I read somewhere that it takes 200 repitions for a dog to learn something. I don't know if it is true, but it does take a lot of repetitions!


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## jaysee (Nov 25, 2013)

We never crated dogs growing up - my parents didn't like the idea of the other dogs having free roam and the puppy not. Soooo, I would come home from school to find all sorts of destruction. The one dog used to rip up sections of carpet - solo tug of war. They all grew out of that stage, thankfully. 

I briefly crated mine when I was away, and soon moved to blocking them in the kitchen - nothing for them to destroy in there. They haven't demonstrated any destructive tendencies, but I refuse to be concerned about what I will find when I get home. Ultimately they will have free roam of the house - there are many years ahead for that.


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## SWHouston (Aug 23, 2013)

I have two large Crates and never (hardly) use them, save for Jails, Medical Isolations or Transporting.
From the time a Pup(s) arrive at 12 wks until they are potty trained, they are limited to an aprox 400 SqFt Tiled area, with a Doggy Door to the outside. With adult Dogs to show the newbys the way to the potty (outside), that training period is very short. I've found it SO helpful to have older animals to help train the Pups !


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## Kat & Zoey (Dec 15, 2013)

I would like to thank all of you who commented and gave me some ideas, I think we are on the right path now and Zoey seems to be content with her new area. Its been 4 days now and she is only going on the puppy pads... Yahooo... I think now that I have a system that works for me that she will figure it out very fast.


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