# Worried about Lilo



## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

Lilo has had a bloated/swollen belly ever since we've had her (not just after she eats). It got better when we switched her to the raw diet, but never went completely. We thought she might have worms at the start, but the vet didn't mention it during her check up so we assumed it must be fine. She was also scooting a lot at the start, but that got better. It's not hugely bloated, but it is swollen. Coco's belly was not like that at all as a puppy.

So anyway, yesterday I heard her whine and noticed she left a white(ish) pale brown kind of 'creamy' looking discharge on her bed (no smell). Her belly also seemed more swollen than usual. She was also calmer than usual all day. Then when we took her for a walk at the end of the afternoon, she vomited. She ate boiled chicken later on and it went down fine though.

I read about a lot of things online, but was curious to know what people here thought it could be? We called the vet and she asked us to come in on monday, but I thought I should ask on here in the mean time.

A lot of the results online were about heat/pregnancy, anal glands issues, pyometra and urinary infection/vaginitis, but she's not even 5 months yet... and shows no other signs of heat anyway. There is no horrible smell like they say it should be for anal sacs problems... she doesn't have difficulty or pain when peeing so urinary infection seems unlikely. I don't know, am I worried about nothing? It's just that on top of the ear infection/ear mites that was treated last month, the skin turning dark grey, the patch of hair thinning out on her side, etc... I just want her to be healthy.


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## miuccias (Aug 22, 2012)

Has Lilo ever been deworm? I would take a stool sample to be sure everything's right.
How you maybe take a picture of her belly?


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## I<3Charlie-chi (Feb 25, 2011)

Sorry I don't know but just wanted to say hope she's ok xx


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

The previous owner said she did, though there's no way to know for sure if that's true. We've been giving her Advocate drops each month (which protects against roundworm, hookworm, whipworm and fleas, I think).

That was taken a week ago. My red curtains create a lighting that makes her skin look worse than it really is btw, but it kinda shows the bloating.


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## miuccias (Aug 22, 2012)

Poor baby!
It worried me that you say she has been like that since you got her. How old was she then?
Is that the same breeder that sent her with ear mites??
About deworming there are, within this forum a lot of mixed feelings, but I have read that puppies get worms from the mother so you should deworm them, if that is the same breeder from the ear mites I wouldn't believe anything he/she says.
I would say no matter what, bring with you a sample on monday if it comes back negative at least you'll know.
What is Advocate? is that a dewormer?

What does she eat? you said raw? does she eat anything else? How much does she pee? is it dark pee?
I would say she is definitely not in heat


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

We got her at 13 weeks old (she's 21 weeks now) and yes she had ear mites already! :/ Though we didn't realise it at the time... the vet put her on Canaural ear drops for 4 weeks and that's sorted at least... but the drops made her lose hair on her ears and other side effect. Poor little Lilo. :/

We've been worried about her bloated belly from the start, but the vet didn't seem to care during her check up. 

Advocate is an external dewormer as well as for prevention (I believe)... but it only treats the worms I listed above.

As for her diet, she eats Ziwipeak and raw.

The colour of her pee is normal I think.


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## Angel1210 (Mar 14, 2011)

I not as well educated about chis as a lot of other members, but my instinct says "worms!" My vet gives two doses of dewormers several weeks apart. Poor LILO! I hope she's feeling better soon!


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

Angel1210 said:


> I not as well educated about chis as a lot of other members, but my instinct says "worms!" My vet gives two doses of dewormers several weeks apart. Poor LILO! I hope she's feeling better soon!


That's what I was thinking too. That's why I'm surprised the vet wasn't bothered by it. She just told us to give her Advocate each month and that's it. I've been checking her stools and haven't seen anything abnormal... though I know it's not always visible.

She seems to feel fine today though. I bought her a new toy and a deer antler stick this morning so she's running around all excited. :]


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## Angel1210 (Mar 14, 2011)

Can you get dewormer meds from the vet? I don't think a preventative will help if she already has worms! Yes you are correct, they aren't always visible. When Angel was prescribed a second dose of dewormer I told the vet that he didn't have worms anymore because I didn't see any more in his poop! But he just shook his head and said he still has worms, give him this one more dose. So, I did. And yeah, he had more! After that experience I wondered if he needed another dose! He assured me that two did the trick. That's why I think she could have worms. I don't think the meds for it are harmful! But I do know that the meds the vets have work much better than what you buy in the pet store! But if your vet won't give you dewormer, maybe you could buy one! 

Glad she's feeling a bit better!


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

Normally a puppy is dewormed starting at 2 weeks, and then every 2 weeks until 8 weeks of age. Your vet will most likely put your pup on heartworm preventative, and that will also cover other worms, minus tapeworms. It will not hurt to deworm your pup. Go to petsmart or petco and speak to someone that works there. They'll be able to tell you which wormer is best. I know D-Worm is pretty good. You'll also need a separate wormer for tapeworms. Treat her, and see if this improves the bloating. You normally worm them, then a follow up treatment 10 to 14 days later. I'm not sure where you got her, but sadly enough unless you go with a very reputable breeder, you can't go by what they say. There is so much deception going on with breeding, that I don't trust 99% of them. A good breeder keeps a record that they send with you that will have dates of each worming and vaccines. If they are vaccinating on their own, personally I'd titer. The vaccines have to be kept at a certain temp, if not, then it can bea pointless vaccine. 

Puppies appear bloated. This is normal. But if you have been concerned, I'd worm her. 

Hope all is well. Worms can really drag them down.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

The only worm you'd likely ever see is a tapeworm. They can be eat up with worms, and you'll never see them.


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## cpaoline (Oct 9, 2012)

Try a little bit of canned plain pumpkin something in it kills worms. Not saying to replace the dewormer but it may help till she gets to the vet. About 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon . And u can give her plain yogurt for her belly. The active cultures should help the bloating. Not sure what the discharge could be


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## MMS (Aug 2, 2012)

I too would be concerned. She shouldn't look bloated all the time if she's on raw. I don't believe that preventatives are effective if the dog already has worms - and can actually be dangerous to give in some instances, b/c the dog may not pass the worm carcasses properly and they can start to rot inside the dog, causing all kinds of issues. 
I would take a fecal to the vet, and check for all worm types. You want to get your meds from the vet, that way you know that they're fresh and have been kept at the appropriate temp. I would also be concerned that your vet wasn't worried about worms with a new puppy.... that's just weird.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

The only "preventative" wormer is for heartworms. The active ingredient in the treatment will kill heartworm before they reach maturity, adult stage. If they are bad enough, there are other treatments that are used to kill adult stage heartworm. Since she's so young, it isn't likely that she would have adult stage heartworms. They go through a life cycle, and takes about 4 months to reach the adult stage. This is why the vet puts them on a preventative at a young age. Normally at 2 lbs. which commonly is about 12 to 14 weeks old. The wormer included in the heartworm preventative is a treatment for roundworms, hookworms, and one other I believe. Tapeworms normally are treated with a different med. The active ingredient that kills roundworms, hookworms. ...will not treat tapeworms. It's very safe to treat for roundworms, hookworms and tapeworms at home. It will not harm your pup, and if you get a good brand, will be the same thing the vet will do for far less expense. It's always best to do what you feel comfortable with, though. If you would feel better having a fecal, and the vet administering the meds, then that's what you should do. Many here have successfully treated roundworms, hook and tape worms at home.  With that said, I don't suggest doing anything that you aren't comfortable with, and I'm not a vet, so can only give you unprofessional advice. 

Without knowing for sure that the bloating is being caused by worms, a vet visit may be your best bet. xxx


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

TLI, thanks!! She is taking Advocate drops (once a month) to prevent hookworms, roundworms, whipworms and fleas which I get at the vet. 

I have trouble trusting breeders too... Lilo came with a passport and paperwork... I have all her vaccination history with dates and signatures from the vets that did them, etc. Nothing about deworming in there though. :/

Could worms have caused the discharge? I'm going to look into having her dewormed right away, but wondering if the discharge is related to the bloating or something else... as I'm not even sure where it came from. 



MMS said:


> I too would be concerned. She shouldn't look bloated all the time if she's on raw. I don't believe that preventatives are effective if the dog already has worms - and can actually be dangerous to give in some instances, b/c the dog may not pass the worm carcasses properly and they can start to rot inside the dog, causing all kinds of issues.
> I would take a fecal to the vet, and check for all worm types. You want to get your meds from the vet, that way you know that they're fresh and have been kept at the appropriate temp. I would also be concerned that your vet wasn't worried about worms with a new puppy.... that's just weird.


Wow I didn't realise it was dangerous to give something that prevents worms if the dog already has worms. :/ I was concerned about the vet not caring too... because I did mention the bloating to her. Instead of checking for worms, she just lectured me about nutrition saying Lilo should eat Science diet for puppy instead of Ziwipeak. I might go to another vet...



cpaoline said:


> Try a little bit of canned plain pumpkin something in it kills worms. Not saying to replace the dewormer but it may help till she gets to the vet. About 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon . And u can give her plain yogurt for her belly. The active cultures should help the bloating. Not sure what the discharge could be


Oh, I already give her a bit of plain probiotic yoghurt. I didn't know about pumpkin being able to kill worms. Interesting! I'll look into it.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

If she is being given worm treatment, then it's likely not worms. The treatments work very well. 

The discharge wouldn't be related to worms, I don't think. I'd think heat, anal glands, constipation, poop smear, UTI. That's all I can think of that would cause discharge. 

If you are using a monthly wormer, I wouldn't worm with other meds. 

I would bring her for a vet visit.


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

Thanks, those are the things I had read about too. I'll take her to the vet on monday to be sure! Gosh, I don't want her to have anything serious. :/


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

coco_little_bear said:


> Thanks, those are the things I had read about too. I'll take her to the vet on monday to be sure! Gosh, I don't want her to have anything serious. :/


Try not to worry. xxx I'm sure everything will be fine. Without other symptoms present, I'd guess it to be something easily remedied.


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## cpaoline (Oct 9, 2012)

A friend of mine had her puppy wormed and gave pumpkin for diarrhea and surprise surprise she pooped out worms that were so bad it looked like spaghetti. Not saying this is the case with lilo but I dont think it would hurt. Does she seem to be passing gas? Its always a possibility she isnt tolerating raw well.


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

cpaoline said:


> A friend of mine had her puppy wormed and gave pumpkin for diarrhea and surprise surprise she pooped out worms that were so bad it looked like spaghetti. Not saying this is the case with lilo but I dont think it would hurt. Does she seem to be passing gas? Its always a possibility she isnt tolerating raw well.


Eek, I had a look at the supermarket and they don't sell canned pumpkin. It's not very popular in the UK from what I can see! As for possibly not tolerating raw well, I'm not sure. Her stools have been very healthy since being on raw. If anything, she was more bloated before going raw. Generally she doesn't have a gas issue, but yesterday morning she did! It was horrible. :lol:

Does the bloating look bad on the picture? Google images always comes up with the worst cases possible so in comparison, Lilo doesn't seem as bloated. I can't figure out if it's bloated enough to worry or if it's normal? All I know is that Coco wasn't like that, but I don't know if other puppies can be like that naturally?


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

It really doesn't look bad in the pics. Looks like puppy belly. Honestly, if it's really concerning you, I'd go with your gut feeling and have it checked out. 

If she's on a monthly wormer from your vet, I'm almost positive it isn't worms. 

If she had blockage, she'd be vomiting and not pooping. It wouldn't go on for days without her becoming more ill. 

My guess is that it's normal, or diet related. Maybe post in the raw section and see if something you are feeding could be causing gas and bloating. 

There is something called "bloat." Give it a Google. 

Hoping all is well. xxx


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

^ Thanks, that's reassuring. Maybe I'm worrying for nothing then when it comes to the bloating. I'll keep an eye on her to see if she keeps having that pale brown discharge though, but might not go to the vet so soon after all. I don't want her to be ill, but I also don't have a lot of money right now so don't want to pay for a vet visit if I don't have to.


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

Oh and I read about bloat online, that's scary!


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