# Heartworm medication... necessary?



## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

How important/necessary is a heartworm or flea, tick, or parasite medication? Does it depend on where you live? Or should all dogs have it?


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## mooberry (Jan 31, 2011)

In my area it's a must, especially since her have "skeeters" as my little cousin calls them which cause heart worm.


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## Mijo (Jun 23, 2011)

i was told by my vet that if the flea / tick medication also repels "skeeters" then heartworm medication is overkill.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Mijo said:


> i was told by my vet that if the flea / tick medication also repels "skeeters" then heartworm medication is overkill.


Sorry, but your vet couldn't be more wrong.

Heartworm preventative is the MOST important out of the two medications. We don't do flea/tick stuff but not medicating for HW is like basically gambling with your puppy's life. It is imperative if you live somewhere mosquitos live, your dog be on HW preventative. I think not having your dog on the preventative is basically as bad as hitting it or abusing it.

Flea/Tick depends where you live. Where we are it is really dry and our dogs our outside every day and we've never seen a single flea (knock on wood) so I have the medication if I need to treat for it, but we don't use it monthly.


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## Mijo (Jun 23, 2011)

flippedstars said:


> Sorry, but your vet couldn't be more wrong.
> 
> Heartworm preventative is the MOST important out of the two medications. We don't do flea/tick stuff but not medicating for HW is like basically gambling with your puppy's life. It is imperative if you live somewhere mosquitos live, your dog be on HW preventative. I think not having your dog on the preventative is basically as bad as hitting it or abusing it.
> 
> Flea/Tick depends where you live. Where we are it is really dry and our dogs our outside every day and we've never seen a single flea (knock on wood) so I have the medication if I need to treat for it, but we don't use it monthly.


Well my vet is the director for vet services for the SPCA in san francisco, and has been practicing for over 30 years. I also asked the vets at UC berkley about this and they also agreed with my regular vet. since heartworms are transmitted via skeeters it would make sense that if you use a flea / tick medication that also protects against skeeters you are also protecting your dog against heartworms. Stastically your dog is more likely to be exposed to fleas and ticks than they are to heartworm. I'm going to go with the recommendation of professional vs. someone on a forum


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

I also would never skip offering my girls heartworm medication. They get it now every 45 days. 
Flea and tick medication, for me, is too harsh/too strong a toxin for my little ones so we pass on that.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Mijo said:


> Well my vet is the director for vet services for the SPCA in san francisco, and has been practicing for over 30 years. I also asked the vets at UC berkley about this and they also agreed with my regular vet. since heartworms are transmitted via skeeters it would make sense that if you use a flea / tick medication that also protects against skeeters you are also protecting your dog against heartworms. Stastically your dog is more likely to be exposed to fleas and ticks than they are to heartworm. I'm going to go with the recommendation of professional vs. someone on a forum


The general consensus among "educated professionals" basically says your vet is an idiot then. I would look into it, your dog could die because of your vet's negligence.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Heartworm is a killer. I am all for naturalistic and holistic care for our dogs and I don't do the topical flea preventatives at all. But I do believe that protecting our dogs from heartworm is necessary and responsible. I do the medication every 45 days.

Heartworms infect, depending on the temperature. They grow inside mosquitos. There is a very high incidence of death in small dogs infected as their hearts can clog with just ONE worm. I don't take the risk.

Here's a map of the US with the incidence/prevalence of heartworms by states. If you are in a state that has infected mosquitos, then I believe you should be using the medication.

http://www.heartwormsociety.org/download/Incidence-Map-2010.pdf


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Mijo said:


> Well my vet is the director for vet services for the SPCA in san francisco, and has been practicing for over 30 years. I also asked the vets at UC berkley about this and they also agreed with my regular vet. since heartworms are transmitted via skeeters it would make sense that if you use a flea / tick medication that also protects against skeeters you are also protecting your dog against heartworms. Stastically your dog is more likely to be exposed to fleas and ticks than they are to heartworm. I'm going to go with the recommendation of professional vs. someone on a forum


Perhaps you might read this article, published in the San Francisco newspaper about the growing incidence of heartworm in YOUR CITY. It is a REAL THREAT. It is your choice, but you should be making an informed choice based on data, not on the recommendations of a particular vet, whose information, it would appear, is not current.

Is heartworm on the rise? : Tails Of The City

You might also want to research into topical flea and tick medications and their adverse effects. There have been many illnesses and deaths directly correlated with these topical products.


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## Mijo (Jun 23, 2011)

I think people are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I not imply that HW medication is not necessary. I'm simply stating that (based on the dozen or so professional options that I have personnally recieved) if you are using a flea / tick medication that also repels skeeters than HW medication may not be necessary. I would encourage anyone to do their own research as I have done and listen to the differing options and make up your own mind. You should also look at the source of your information (i.e. are the vets / clincs going to be making money from the medication that they recommend). Looking at the attachment in the post from brodymom, I can't help but notice that it's from the American Heatworm Society and I'm sure they have a vested interest in HW medication (considering that all the companies listed at the bottom are drug or chemical manufacturers).

If I did not use flea / tick medication that also repels skeeters then I would definately use a HW medication. If you are already using a medication that repels the vector then that in itself is a form of preventive medicine. I've also done my own research for flea / tick medication, and I'm involved in a class action law suit against one manufacturer that i was using at one point.


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## omguthrie (Oct 13, 2009)

Well, consider that if you are using a topical product that repels fleas and ticks as well as mosquitos you are using something that is driving away the insects. Kind of like you using something like Off while outside. How many times have you used Off and still gotten a bite or two somewhere on your body where you forgot to spray? Or the spray wore off? Probably once or twice at least. 

Same thing. Only on you it was no big deal. You got an itchy bug bite for a day or two but your dog could be bitten by a mosquito that is carrying heartworm larvae. 

In my opinion hearworms are so dangerous to small dogs and so easy to prevent (an easy to give, chewable, pill every 45 days) why take the risk? I know we are all concerned with the amount of chemicals that we put into our bodies and into our pets but would you rather give this small amount of meds monthly or have to treat for heartworms later (a much larger amount of insecticide injected into their bodies that could kill them)? I know what I chose.


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

I do not use heartworm with my dogs because my vets have never seen a case of heartworm in a dog that lives in my area. (I am so lucky, I live in one of the white ares in the map posted) But we do get a ton of fleas and some ticks here. I only use the flea medicine if the dogs have fleas, it's usually once at the beginning of the summer and then they are good the rest of the year. My cats usually are the ones that bring them in.


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## Tanna (Jan 29, 2009)

I don't use HW medication either, being in So Cal it is so dry here there just aren't many Skeeters. Honestly, i don't think i have ever been bitten by skeeter in all the years i've lived in Los Angeles. I am also in the white area on the attached map.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

*Raise your hand if you've ever been bit by a mosquito while wearing bug spray...**raises hand**. *

Your dog still can very easily get bitten by an infected mosquito and develop heartworm. That is why it is important to treat for heartworm, not just "repel" mosquitoes. To me it sounds like you are gambling with your dog's life, because heartworm is a killer. It only takes one single bite, and your pup is a goner.


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

I use heartworm meds and I'm really prudent about giving mine meds in general. I don't treat for fleas, but I do use heartworm meds. The risk is definitely not worth it.


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## Mijo (Jun 23, 2011)

thank you svdreamer and tanna, i knew i could not be the only person here that doesn't use HW medication. FWIW, I do have my dogs checked for HW on a regular basis I just don't subject them to the regular HW medication regiment.

Brodysmom - I actually saw that article already and it doesn't make sense with the included chart. The city of SF is in the 1 - 5 incidents/ clinc, which is the second lowest. North of the city has a higher rate of incidents, which makes sense if you know this area.

I've already done my research on this topic for my area and I'm going with the professional "idiots" opinions seeing as they actually service this area and provide treatment. I'm pretty sure that vets at the SPCA, UC Davis (I mispoke when i stated Berkley) and the clincs in the East Bay that I talked to have a little more information than out of state forum members.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Mijo said:


> thank you svdreamer and tanna, i knew i could not be the only person here that doesn't use HW medication. FWIW, I do have my dogs checked for HW on a regular basis I just don't subject them to the regular HW medication regiment.
> 
> Brodysmom - I actually saw that article already and it doesn't make sense with the included chart. The city of SF is in the 1 - 5 incidents/ clinc, which is the second lowest. North of the city has a higher rate of incidents, which makes sense if you know this area.
> 
> I've already done my research on this topic for my area and I'm going with the professional "idiots" opinions seeing as they actually service this area and provide treatment. I'm pretty sure that vets at the SPCA, UC Davis (I mispoke when i stated Berkley) and the clincs in the East Bay that I talked to have a little more information than out of state forum members.


You should ask your vet what you should feed your dogs too while you're at it...they will tell you to feed it Science Diet...which is made from SAWDUST and rotten meat of dead dogs and cats. It even contains traces of pentobarbitol (euthanasia drug), just for good health!


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

I'd really welcome the opportunity to read more about this. I have honestly searched and searched (since this post got my interest!) and I cannot find any documentation, white papers, etc. that would give me background/rationale to read and decide. If you know of any or have links to them, I'd really love to read/learn more for myself.

Yeah, my vet group boasts serving the Kansas City area for over 65 years with a combined years of practice and teaching of over 240 years and there are things that I, in my educated, yet VERY limited experience know FAR more than they.
Nutrition for my girls is chief among them. My vet is now the first to admit that. They have never even heard of the last 4-5 things that I fed the girls nor had even pondered the reasons why.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

In my opinion you should treat with HW meds about every 45 days. Mosquito repellent is great, but if just one infected mosquito bites your pup then it can become infected, which isn't worth the risk. No repellent is 100% fool proof. Having regular HW tests, unless done every 2 months will only alert you when the problem is far advanced. HW meds are a safety precaution that can save your pups life. : ) Of course the final decision is always left to the owner of the pup.


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## Mijo (Jun 23, 2011)

flippedstars said:


> You should ask your vet what you should feed your dogs too while you're at it...they will tell you to feed it Science Diet...which is made from SAWDUST and rotten meat of dead dogs and cats. It even contains traces of pentobarbitol (euthanasia drug), just for good health!


Wow, so that's your level of maturity flippedstar. I actually listen to differing opinions, do independent research, apply logic and form my own opinions. i don't take the advice of ranting closed minded "idiots" who fail to recognize credible sources. way to make new members feel welcome flippedstar, i hope the some of the older forum members are a little more open to varying ideas / opinions.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Name calling is against the rules of the forum, Mijo...whether you consider me an idiot or not.

And not sure how I am being immature, I'm stating a fact. It doesn't sound like you have researched anything, just taken your vet's opinion at face value and called the rest of us idiots because we DID research. Sorry, but vets don't know that much about the "outside" of your dog, they are trained mostly to treat the "inside" of your dog WHEN there is a problem. In my opinion your vet is performing malpractice, sorry for trying to make you aware. In case you didn't notice, seems like everyone else agrees that a "repellent" is insufficient when it comes to heartworm.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

If you read the Q & A on 1-800-petmeds.com for AdvantixII flea tick and mosquito repellent it is excruciatingly clear that it in no way substitutes for a heartworm preventative.


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

I live in one of the large white areas... Does that mean my pups don't need heartworm medication? My vet has never suggested it to me, but I would like to put them on prevention meds if there is still a risk.


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## Mijo (Jun 23, 2011)

flippedstar, i have discussed HW medication with more than a dozen vets in the bay area and the concenus was that it was not necessary b/c of the flea / tick medication that i'm already using. I also discussed the number of HW incidents that each of the vets (that I spoke to) has treated in the last year and compared that to the total number of dogs that they examined. I also looked at the vector abate program for my immediate area and looked to see how rigourous their skeeter program is (how often do they spray, and where). I looked at the number of west nile cases in my area as well, b/c that's also an indicator of any skeeter problems. Also spoke with a number of rescue groups and chi groups in my area to get their opinion on HW medication. Then there's also the data from county heath that i reviewed, as well as online research. 

What exactly did you do for your reseach? Did you check the MSDSs for each of chemicals in the HW medication that you use? What are the LD50 and LC50 values, what are target organs that are susceptible to these chemicals, what's the TCLP for these chemicals? I looked at all of these things when I was considering putting my dogs on HW medication, and I did it for each of the regiments that I was considering. So no, I didn't just ask a bunch of vets or read a forum and draw a conclusion. And I don't use frontline or advantix, i did my own research on those as well. 

Again I'm not saying that HW medication is not necessary, just based on the extensive research that I have done for my own area it's not warranted. Seriously you can listen to the rants on a forum if you want but you'll get more out of it if you do your own research.


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

missy_r said:


> I live in one of the large white areas... Does that mean my pups don't need heartworm medication? My vet has never suggested it to me, but I would like to put them on prevention meds if there is still a risk.


I live in a white area, too. What I did was ask all the vets at the practice (there 7 vets there) if they have seen/heard/treated any dog that was from this area for heartworm and they all said no, that there was no outbreak here...yet. I do check with them when I bring in the dogs, ok, when I remember, which is three to four times a year and the answer never has changed.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Mijo said:


> flippedstar, i have discussed HW medication with more than a dozen vets in the bay area and the concenus was that it was not necessary b/c of the flea / tick medication that i'm already using. I also discussed the number of HW incidents that each of the vets (that I spoke to) has treated in the last year and compared that to the total number of dogs that they examined. I also looked at the vector abate program for my immediate area and looked to see how rigourous their skeeter program is (how often do they spray, and where). I looked at the number of west nile cases in my area as well, b/c that's also an indicator of any skeeter problems. Also spoke with a number of rescue groups and chi groups in my area to get their opinion on HW medication. Then there's also the data from county heath that i reviewed, as well as online research.
> 
> What exactly did you do for your reseach? Did you check the MSDSs for each of chemicals in the HW medication that you use? What are the LD50 and LC50 values, what are target organs that are susceptible to these chemicals, what's the TCLP for these chemicals? I looked at all of these things when I was considering putting my dogs on HW medication, and I did it for each of the regiments that I was considering. So no, I didn't just ask a bunch of vets or read a forum and draw a conclusion. And I don't use frontline or advantix, i did my own research on those as well.
> 
> Again I'm not saying that HW medication is not necessary, just based on the extensive research that I have done for my own area it's not warranted. Seriously you can listen to the rants on a forum if you want but you'll get more out of it if you do your own research.


Dogs/cats are very rarely affected by the West Nile Virus...http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/westnile/qa/wnv_dogs_cats.htm...even if they are, owners don't know/notice, and therefore vets would not have an accurate picture of the incidences of WNV in dogs/cats.

I am fully aware of WHAT a heartworm medication does. I'm also fully aware of what heartworm can do. HW meds are by far the lesser of the two evils. The instances of a dog or cat getting seizures from HW med are nil to none...going into liver or kidney failure, or a variety of other problems that are often resultant of topical flea/tick meds, are also not typically associated with the "topical" route.

Just remember it only takes a SINGLE bite from a SINGLE infected mosquito and your whole theory has cost you a ton of money and your dog possibly its life. Unless you NEVER leave the confines of your own city with your own dog, you put them at risk whenever you leave, too.

Obviously you are certain what you are doing is right for you and that's fine.

The member here who asked though is looking for all sides of information. Considering that some very educated members read and post here, and the majority all feel it is important to use a heartworm preventative, AND the importance my own vets have placed on it, all point to the fact that it is the right way to deal with the problem. The fact that almost no one uses topical medications due to horrific side effects also says something too. 

You aren't going to agree with me, I'm not going to agree with you. Guess that's just how it is


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## Mijo (Jun 23, 2011)

flippedstars said:


> Dogs/cats are very rarely affected by the West Nile Virus...http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/westnile/qa/wnv_dogs_cats.htm...even if they are, owners don't know/notice, and therefore vets would not have an accurate picture of the incidences of WNV in dogs/cats.


You are twisting my words around, I did not look for incidents of WNV in pets I only looked at the number of incidents in people. WNV incidents are dirrectly related to skeeter populations, higher incidents of WNV = greater population of skeeters. I'm simply applying available data, that might not be directly applicable, and using it to help make a more informed decision.

We can agree to disagree in civil manner, but when you start calling a group of well respected vets "idiots" that's when you come off as a ranting troll. You should also keep in mind that this is a public forum and your comments could be considered slander, for which you are liable for.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Mijo said:


> We can agree to disagree in civil manner, but when you start calling a group of well respected vets "idiots" that's when you come off as a ranting troll. You should also keep in mind that this is a public forum and your comments could be considered slander, for which you are liable for.


Okay. I am out. I was genuinely interested in getting detail to be able to examine this myself since I can find NOTHING online to substantiate this and you have offered nothing nor even acknowledged my request. I asked respectfully.
Now this is the most ridiculous thing that I have read and as a civil, educated person myself, forget my request and consider that me one who is no longer interested in this post nor this topic.


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

Mijo said:


> We can agree to disagree in civil manner, but when you start calling a group of well respected vets "idiots" that's when you come off as a ranting troll. You should also keep in mind that this is a public forum and your comments could be considered slander, for which you are liable for.


Slander?? Gimme a break.  Kristi is one of the most knowledgeable and educated members on here. She was just trying to help. To compare her to ranting troll and bring up slander is ridiculous.


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## omguthrie (Oct 13, 2009)

Mijo,

What do you use for flea, tick and mosquito repellent? You mention that you don't use Frontline or Advantix I think. 

Thank you.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I'm a slandering ranting idiot troll :-D 

LOL. Seriously, hopefully the initial question asker got the answers they were looking for though. I still can't emphasize enough how important heartworm medication is.

We are told we can take a "break" from November through March, but because I show some of my dogs, and they all travel, mine are on it year round every 45 days.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

jesuschick said:


> I'd really welcome the opportunity to read more about this. I have honestly searched and searched (since this post got my interest!) and I cannot find any documentation, white papers, etc. that would give me background/rationale to read and decide. If you know of any or have links to them, I'd really love to read/learn more for myself.



Karen I couldn't find anything either...the internet has just about everything under the sun on it...and yet I found nothing supporting the idea.


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

Mijo said:


> We can agree to disagree in civil manner, but when you start calling a group of well respected vets "idiots" that's when you come off as a ranting troll. You should also keep in mind that this is a public forum and your comments could be considered slander, for which you are liable for.


Flippedstars is not a "ranting troll". I feel that I have learned a lot on this forum from the many educated members, flippedstars included.


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## omguthrie (Oct 13, 2009)

Yep, I take a break with mine in December through February but then we're back on it after that. I just can't bring myself to take a risk that great considering that I live in an area with mosquitoes that are big enough that I'm afraid they are going to carry Lilo off!!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I take a break December through February as well. A simple and inexpensive blood test in the spring and then he goes on the heartworm meds every 45 days through the summer. We are temporarily out of KS and in WA where the incidence of heartworm is very, very low. Guess what - I am giving it here as well. It's just worth it to me for peace of mind.

If anyone out there is really thinking of skipping the HW, I would urge them to do blood tests to check for the larvae twice a year, say February and again in September. That way you would be reassured that they have not picked up a HW infection and the treatment will be easier on the dog than waiting for a full infestation to occur. Remember, a chi heart is about the size of a walnut. The heartworms are large.

For anyone interested in seeing a surgical procedure where heartworms are removed (instead of doing the slow kill with an insecticide), here it is .....

(NOT for the squeamish) -


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> I take a break December through February as well. A simple and inexpensive blood test in the spring and then he goes on the heartworm meds every 45 days through the summer.


Same here.


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## nabi (Nov 25, 2004)

If I ever had second thoughts about using heartworm preventative that video just made me feel very confident in my decision to use it... I am doing the right thing for the girls.... Thank you for that link Tracey

about 6 years ago my friend went to a well known breeder of Gordons...she is in Mi and my friend lives across the border by Sarnia... a few weeks after they brought home the gorgeous 12 week old puppy he started to have some shortness of breathe when running etc...a quick trip to vet and some blood work showed he was positive for heartworm...the vets had never seen a pup with the infestation....and treatment was started...it was awful for the puppy and for my friends to watch....and for many weeks after the completion of the treatment he was on restricted exercises etc . Obviously the pup did not have any immunity from the mother...


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## Audreybabypup (Sep 14, 2010)

My dogs are on heart worm prevention. I feel it is crucial that they be, as I do live in an area where "skeeters" breed like crazy. I will not take the chance of my babies getting heart worms. Such an awful and potentially fatal parasite. Heart worm prevention is a low cost to pay when it comes to the health of my babies.


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## rms3402 (Dec 2, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> .
> 
> The member here who asked though is looking for all sides of information.



I thank all of you who have responded with your thoughts and comments! This is a topic I am truly interested in, and as Kristi said, I was definitely looking for all sides of information. So, I truly appreciate all of the thoughts and I respect everyone's opinions equally. I did not realize, though, that this would be such a hot/controversial topic when I started the thread! Ay caramba! :nshocked2: (as my high spanish teacher would always say ) I hope everyone can just agree to disagree.  

While I was flicking through channels tonight, the news caught my eye! It was talking about West Nile virus and how it has been found in a town not to far from me! Ah! Also, that the skeeters are on the rise this summer! I'm on the part of the map that Tracy posted (thanks!!!) where there are only 1 - 5 cases, but, that's way more than I was hoping for! So, I will definitely be calling my vet or ordering some HW medication ASAP. It's never too late, right?! And, I would definitely rather be safe than sorry!

So, this all leads me to my next question... what kind of HW medication do you use? What kind has the most benefits? Are they all the same? Where should I order from? Etc!!! 



ETA ... I JUST WATCHED THAT VIDEO.............. Needless to say THAT makes my decision EASY! O M G. EW!? :sad4: No way am I taking that chance!


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