# Spaying & Neutering - Pros, Cons & Myths



## JRZL

Spaying a Female dog:

Pros:


Cuts down on amount of unwanted pregnancies and pet overpopulation 
Cuts down on the amount of unwanted dogs in shelters/rescues
A cleaner dog. Your dog will not come into heat/season which means your dog wont get blood on your furniture or around your house
A calmer dog. When in heat, dogs have a drive to find a mate. Spaying your dog will take away this drive
Keeps your dog healthier. Spaying is the removal of the ovaries and uterus. Without these organs, ovarian cysts, uterine infections, pyometra and cancer of the reproductive tract are no longer a concern


Cons:


If you wish to breed your dog, spaying should not happen as this is sterilization of your dog
Some dogs may gain weight (if your dog begins to gain weight after spaying, increased exercise or cutting back on food will control this)
Your dog could have a negative effect to anaesthesia 
Once spayed, your dog can not be shown as show dogs need to be intact (conformation level) But you *can* show at companion level with a spayed dog



When to spay?

Studies have shown that dogs spayed before puberty have a significantly lower chance of developing breast cancer than unspayed dogs or dogs spayed later in life.

Spaying before the first heat reduces getting breast cancer by 100% but spaying before 2 and a half reduces mammary tumors greatly 

Some vets may charge more for spaying after the dog has been in heat because the dogs organs will be bigger and the procedure is a little more complicated

A lot of people believe around 5 - 6 months old is the right age (before first heat & puberty) as it reduces risks of cancers and diseases by near enough 100%




Neutering a male dog:

Pros:


Also reduces unwanted pregnancies and pet overpopulation
A cleaner house - A neutered male will no longer feel the need to mark in the house or his territory
A calmer dog, he will no longer have the drive to find a mate
Neutered males tend to get in less fights and scuffles than entire dogs
Keeps your dog healthy. Neutering is the removal of the testicles. Without these organs, testicular cancer is no longer a concern and the risk of prostate problems is reduced. 


Cons:


If you wish to breed your dog or stud him out neutering should not happen because it is sterilization
Some dogs may gain weight (if your dog begins to gain weight after neutering, increased exercise or cutting back on food will control this)
Your dog could have a negative effect to anesthesia
Once neutered, your dog can not be shown as show dogs need to be intact (conformation level) But you *can* show at a companion level with a neutered dog



When to neuter?

Many people believe before the dog hits puberty as this reduces cancers and diseases by near enough 100% (5 - 6 months old)

Early neutering prevents aggressive behaviour

Neutering before puberty reduces risks of testicular cancer by 100%



Neutering/spaying myths:

It is a costly procedure - It will actually cost you less in the long run as your dog is less likely to get cancer and other diseases needing veterinary attention

Many people, particularly men, have a hard time sterilizing their pets, imposing upon their dogs their own feelings on losing reproductive abilities. A dog will not feel like less of a “man” or “woman” after being sterilized. It will not suffer an identity crisis or mourn the loss of its reproductive capability. Your dog will simply have one less need to fulfill.

A dog’s basic personality is formed more by environment and genetics than by sex hormones, so sterilization will not change your dog’s basic personality, make your dog sluggish or affect its natural instinct to protect the pack. But it will give you a better behaved pet.



Please feel free to add your own pros, cons and myths below, or if you disagree with any of mine, please feel free to let me know


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## Brodysmom

Great thread!

For me the pros of neutering were lowering the cancer risk, but mainly to avoid the hormones which cause a male dog to mark territory. I didn't want Brody lifting his leg in the house and leaving drips of urine all over. Un-neutered male dogs are also bad about marking at a new house. Since we take him with us when we travel we didn't want to deal with him marking in a hotel room, at my parents house, etc. Since he is neutered, he has NEVER marked.

He also squats to pee. For me this is a plus. Don't know why exactly, it just seems cleaner to me. I let him out, he squats and goes and he's done. He doesn't have to stop and sniff every blade of grass and pee all over everything.

Part of what makes Brody a great pet is his sweet and people oriented personality. That changes when you leave a dog intact. The hormones kick in and intact dogs are often not as sweet and loving as a neutered dog. (Think sex obsessed teenage boys with raging hormones.) 

For those men out there who cringe at altering how their dogs look down there (ha), there are prosthetic testicles which can be implanted during the neuter surgery. They are called neuticles. It is impossible to tell that the dog has been neutered when they are in place. http://neuticles.com/

It is my personal belief that breeding should be left to experts that wish to improve upon and add to our breed with quality dogs. Pet dogs should be spayed/neutered.


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## 18453

OMG Leah i was just doing something like this today... I've added bits i found out

Spaying and neutering costs money. Although the cost isn’t extremely high for some owners the cost can be a lot at the time.. There are specialist clinics or organisations who can help you towards the cost should you be on a low income (UK = Celia Hammond & Blue Cross)

Some Vets prefer to spay after the first season... i've spoken to a couple and thy said the cons were that if you spay pre season it may lead to a higher incidence of urinary incontinence when a female dog is old (but there are medicines that can be given to control this), or "infantile vulva" which may lead to vulval eczema. This is usually sorted by relatively minor plastic surgery.

Personally i'd rather have a low risk of the above than a higher risk of cancer.

Also a bitch in heat will try to escape to find a mate - Chi's can get through very very small gaps.. so if you do not spay your dog do make sure that your garden is fully secure and have them on a leash. You may have to cut out their walks for 3 weeks during this period.

Whilst your dog can have a negative reaction to anaesthesia checks can be done prior to surgery to see if they can tollerate this..


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## JRZL

Daisydoo said:


> OMG Leah i was just doing something like this today... I've added bits i found out


Haha sorry 




> Spaying and neutering costs money. Although the cost isn’t extremely high for some owners the cost can be a lot at the time.. There are specialist clinics or organisations who can help you towards the cost should you be on a low income (UK = Celia Hammond & Blue Cross)


I think PDSA also does it but you have to put in a donation


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## Rico's Mom

Found an interesting article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24597888/ns/health-pet_health/


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## Chiva

JRZL said:


> Spaying a Female dog:
> 
> Cons:
> 
> 
> Once spayed, your dog can not be shown as show dogs need to be intact (conformation level) But you *can* show at companion level with a spayed dog
> 
> 
> Neutering a male dog:
> 
> 
> Cons:
> 
> 
> Once neutered, your dog can not be shown as show dogs need to be intact (conformation level) But you *can* show at a companion level with a neutered dog




The above is not technically true. You can show a neutered dog in the UK, you just have to notify the Kennel Club that they have been spayed/neutered and they will send you a letter acknowledging it. I have two spayed bitches that I show and both have been very successful since their spaying  With males of course it is more noticable and *may* affect the placings you get but there is nothing at all stopping you from showing them


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## Aquarius

Another interesting viewpoint which I found on the Vet section of the Ziwipeak website
http://www.ziwipeak.com/nzl/vet.shtml



Desexing

Wed, Feb 17th, 2010 7:53:01 am

It is wonderful and rewarding to witness a litter of kittens or puppies being born and although some pets are used for breeding and are not desexed (a surgical procedure where males have their testes removed and females have their uterus and ovaries removed), for most dogs and cats there are a number of very good reasons why it is important to consider desexing. Further to this, there are several factors to take into consideration when electing the most suitable age for your pet to be desexed.

First and foremost desexing is used as an invaluable tool to help combat pet overpopulation, which is a huge animal welfare issue worldwide. An underlying theme in our society is that quality is exchanged for quantity and the massive number of animals that are abandoned, aren't adequately cared for or can't be rehomed by animal shelters leads to millions of dogs and cats being euthanized each year.

Except in very tractable and well behaved animals, dogs and cats (especially males) who have not been desexed are very driven by their sexual hormones to roam seeking mates, aggressive behavior when defending their territory, or generally, and inappropriate urination or territory marking.
Frustration often ensues because the animal's need to express sexual behavior is not met which often escalates to destructive behavior. These behaviors are not only largely unacceptable in our society, but they often lead to injury.

Further medical considerations for desexing are mammary cancer, uterine infections, prostatic disease and hormonal imbalances. Although they have multifactorial origins, a desexed animal has a much lesser risk of developing these conditions.

All of these factors make a good case to support the desexing of cats and dogs, especially those living within close confines in an urban environment. But what are the negative points about desexing?

Dogs usually attain puberty at 6 - 12 months and cats at 4 - 9 months of age. At this point there is a greater production of sex hormones which are involved with growth and development, helping to promote the maturation of cartilage and assist with calcium deposition in bones. There is concern about some of the long term health risks of removing the benefits of these hormones.

Research has indicated that a desexed female dog is eight times more likely to suffer from urinary incontinence and it has also been suggested that pre-pubertal desexing of dogs causes an increased incidence of hip dysplasia and bladder infections and cats are more inclined to be shy and obese.

Desexing is a straightforward procedure and our modern anesthetics are very safe but complications such as excessive blood loss, infection and drug reactions do occasionally arise. In pre-pubertal animals, the procedure is generally quicker, easier, and less stressful and there is a faster recovery.

For the pet population as a whole, it is clear that desexing at a young age is an important practice that is adopted by animal shelters globally. When considering desexing your pet and the many factors relating to their specific needs as individuals, it is important to obtain guidance from your vet to help you to make the appropriate decision for their long-term health.

Dr Liza Schneider BVSc - Director
Holistic Veterinary Services | www.holisticvets.co.nz


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## JRZL

Chiva said:


> The above is not technically true. You can show a neutered dog in the UK, you just have to notify the Kennel Club that they have been spayed/neutered and they will send you a letter acknowledging it. I have two spayed bitches that I show and both have been very successful since their spaying  With males of course it is more noticable and *may* affect the placings you get but there is nothing at all stopping you from showing them


I have read on various websites and at ring craft that if you show a spayed or neutered dog you will be disqualified. Also breed standards contain how males testicles should look/how they are descended. 
I put that in because that is what i have been told/read.


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## Chiva

JRZL said:


> I have read on various websites and at ring craft that if you show a spayed or neutered dog you will be disqualified. Also breed standards contain how males testicles should look/how they are descended.
> I put that in because that is what i have been told/read.


Are they american websites you are reading? Cos i think you can show a neutered dog over there. The people at your ringcraft are incorrect. There is nothing that can be a disqualification in the UK. At the bottom of the breed standards it says:

"Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog."

So a neutered dog is merely a fault, and how much of a fault depends on the judges opinion of it.


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## JRZL

Chiva said:


> Are they american websites you are reading? Cos i think you cannot show a neutered dog over there. The people at your ringcraft are incorrect. There is nothing that can be a disqualification in the UK. At the bottom of the breed standards it says:
> 
> "Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog."
> 
> So a neutered dog is merely a fault, and how much of a fault depends on the judges opinion of it.


No they were UK websites.
I dont know which breed your getting that from but at the bottom of the chihuahua standard it says:

Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum.


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## Chiva

As i said there is *nothing that can disqualify a dog from a UK show*.

As i said, a dog with no testicles is a fault, nothing more. I have been showing for many years and as I have already said, I show neutered dogs with KC acknowledgement, I know what im talking about here lol

That passage is on every single UK breed standard, have a look lol!!


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## Chiva

FYI:

http://www.crufts.org.uk/overseas-qualifying-shows

Scroll down to "Class Eligibility", section "d". Thats the most official statement I can find with a quick google search as the KC website keeps crashing on me


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## Chiva

Ok, KC website is working now lol. Here we go:

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/305

The bullet point under the bold section 

"_Dogs which have been spayed or castrated are permitted to be exhibited at Kennel Club licensed events. However, the owner of the dog must inform the Kennel Club, prior to exhibition, of the date of the operation, the name of the veterinary surgeon and the practice where the operation was carried out."_


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## Guess

There are also some downfalls, not listed to having your pet spayed/neutered. 
While it prevents some cancers, it's shown to have an increase in other cancers such as painful bone and prostate cancer. 

Entire males and females are at higher risks for ACL injuries, are shown to have triple the amount of thyroid disease and UTI's and have more joint problems.

Research by Purdue University also concludes that intact females(including humans) live longer when they have their ovaries, among many other conclusions.

Males and females also grow differently than if they were left entire until they mature. Their growth plates are delayed in closing, resulting in taller, lankier dogs. 

Adverse reactions to vaccines went up 30% in females and 27% in males - this goes especially for our toy breed!

I myself do not believe in spaying/neutering before dogs reach maturity, but that is MY opinion and belief. What's right for me and my dogs is not necessarily right for someone else.


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## Chiva

Guess said:


> There are also some downfalls, not listed to having your pet spayed/neutered.
> While it prevents some cancers, it's shown to have an increase in other cancers such as painful bone and prostate cancer.
> 
> Entire males and females are at higher risks for ACL injuries, are shown to have triple the amount of thyroid disease and UTI's and have more joint problems.
> 
> Research by Purdue University also concludes that intact females(including humans) live longer when they have their ovaries, among many other conclusions.
> 
> *Males and females also grow differently than if they were left entire until they mature. Their growth plates are delayed in closing, resulting in taller, lankier dogs. *
> 
> Adverse reactions to vaccines went up 30% in females and 27% in males - this goes especially for our toy breed!
> 
> *I myself do not believe in spaying/neutering before dogs reach maturity, but that is MY opinion and belief. What's right for me and my dogs is not necessarily right for someone else*.


Agree with those two points 100%. We always advise puppy buyers to wait til about 2years to neuter/spay if their situation allows for it, but at least 12 months. We dont neuter before 2 years but leave it as long as possible, especially with the slow maturing labs. My boy who was a very successful show pup had to be neutered at 10 months due to medical problems and he has grown very strangely. His back legs continued growing for too long and very fast. He has also ended up about 4 inches over the breed standard (was a completely normal pup, not overly large so wouldnt have expected him to exceed the standard) and rather bum high due to his back legs! Vet put it down to the hormones needed to regulate his growth being removed in neutering.


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## JRZL

Chiva said:


> As i said there is *nothing that can disqualify a dog from a UK show*.


You can be disqualified from the UK show ring. For example, using colour sticks to hide colours on your dog which is against the standards. 
Also if your dog was over on the measurements like weight. For example chihuahuas should be under 6lb, but is you took a 10lb chihuahua into the ring that was perfect in every other way you would be disqualified or not placed at all.

How do you explain this then? CC winner should be disqualified for any reason, the RCC winner would be awarded the CC 
Copied and pasted that from info on showing in the UK



Chiva said:


> As i said, a dog with no testicles is a fault, nothing more. I have been showing for many years and as I have already said, I show neutered dogs with KC acknowledgement, I know what im talking about here lol


Sorry but I personally don't see the point in showing a neutered or spayed dog. Showing is about trying to better the breed. And breeding two dogs (show dogs with wins) as close to the standards as possible together, to get more standard puppies which benefits the breed.
Also since having no testicles is a fault it is highly unlikely that you would get placed in a show as dogs with testicles and less faults overall would be placed higher.




Chiva said:


> That passage is on every single UK breed standard, have a look lol!!


Well i took the quote above from the chihuahua standard on the KC website and thats all it says about the subject.



Im not wanting to start an argument here. This thread is about spaying and neutering dogs not showing.


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## Chiva

JRZL said:


> You can be disqualified from the UK show ring. For example, using colour sticks to hide colours on your dog which is against the standards.
> Also if your dog was over on the measurements like weight. For example chihuahuas should be under 6lb, but is you took a 10lb chihuahua into the ring that was perfect in every other way you would be disqualified or not placed at all.
> 
> How do you explain this then? CC winner should be disqualified for any reason, the RCC winner would be awarded the CC
> Copied and pasted that from info on showing in the UK
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but I personally don't see the point in showing a neutered or spayed dog. Showing is about trying to better the breed. And breeding two dogs (show dogs with wins) as close to the standards as possible together, to get more standard puppies which benefits the breed.
> Also since having no testicles is a fault it is highly unlikely that you would get placed in a show as dogs with testicles and less faults overall would be placed higher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well i took the quote above from the chihuahua standard on the KC website and thats all it says about the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> Im not wanting to start an argument here. This thread is about spaying and neutering dogs not showing.


Im sorry, but you are giving incorrect information  I have provided TWO sources to show that your information is incorrect, from the UK kennel club website and the Crufts website, and yet you still insist you're right??  Here is the Long Coat Chihuahua Breed Standard. I have highlighted the relevant point incase you miss it 

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/182

_Chihuahua (Long Coat) Breed Standard
15-May-06

© The Kennel Club - Unauthorised Reproduction of Text and Images Prohibited.

A Breed Standard is the guideline which describes the ideal characteristics, temperament and appearance of a breed and ensures that the breed is fit for function. Absolute soundness is essential. Breeders and judges should at all times be careful to avoid obvious conditions or exaggerations which would be detrimental in any way to the health, welfare or soundness of this breed. From time to time certain conditions or exaggerations may be considered to have the potential to affect dogs in some breeds adversely, and judges and breeders are requested to refer to the Kennel Club website for details of any such current issues. If a feature or quality is desirable it should only be present in the right measure.

To view photos of this breed please visit the Kennel Club Picture Library



General Appearance
Small, dainty, compact.

Characteristics
Alert little dog; swift-moving with brisk, forceful action and saucy expression.

Temperament
Gay, spirited and intelligent, neither snappy nor withdrawn.

Head and Skull
Well rounded ‘apple dome’ skull, cheeks and jaws lean, muzzle moderately short, slightly pointed. Definite stop.

Eyes
Large, round, but not protruding; set well apart; centre of eye is on a plane with lowest point of ear and base of stop; dark or ruby. Light eyes in light colours permissible.

Ears
Large, flaring, set on at an angle of approximately 45 degrees; giving breadth between ears. Tipped or broken down highly undesirable.

Mouth
Jaws strong, with a perfect, regular and complete scissor bite, i.e. upper teeth closely overlapping lower teeth and set square to the jaws.

Neck
Slightly arched, medium length.

Forequarters
Shoulders well laid; lean, sloping into slightly broadening support above straight forelegs, set well under chest giving freedom of movement without looseness.

Body
Level back. Body, from point of shoulder to rear point of croup, slightly longer than height at withers. Well sprung ribs, deep brisket.

Hindquarters
Muscular; hocks well let down, with good turn of stifle, well apart, turning neither in nor out.

Feet
Small and dainty, turning neither in nor out; toes well divided but not spread, pads cushioned, fine, strong, flexible pasterns. Neither hare- nor cat-like, nails moderately short.

Tail
Medium length, set high, carried up and over back (sickle tail). When moving never tucked under or curled below the topline. Furry, flattish in appearance, broadening slightly in centre and tapering to point.

Gait/Movement
Brisk, forceful action, neither high-stepping nor hackney; good reach without slackness in forequarters, good drive in hindquarters. Viewed from front and behind legs should move neither too close nor too wide, with no turning in or out of feet or pasterns. Topline should remain firm and level when moving.

Coat
Long Coat: soft texture (never coarse or harsh to touch) either flat or slightly wavy. Never tight and curly. Feathering on ears, feet and legs, pants on hindquarters, large ruff on neck desirable. Tail long and full as a plume.
Smooth Coat: smooth, of soft texture, close and glossy, with undercoat and ruff permissible.

Colour
Any colour or mixture of colours - but never merle (dapple).

Size
Weight: up to 2.7 kgs (6 lbs), with 1.8 - 2.7 kgs (4 - 6 lbs) preferred. 

*Faults
Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog.*

Note
Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum.

Last Updated - October 2009_

And what on earth is wrong with showing a dog because you and the dog enjoy it? What an arrogant point of view to assume that only those who wish to breed their dogs should show, I hate that sort of thinking within the show world, I will not have anyone tell me when I should and shouldn't show my dogs, it is my hobby and I do it because I enjoy it and so do my dogs, and I breed those dogs who are good examples of the breed and who I feel fit in with my breeding programme. My neutered dogs have been bred (except one) and now have been neutered to avoid any medical problems (such as pyo), why should I not continue showing them??? 

You are AGAIN incorrect with the statements you are coming out with regarding disqualification due to size/weight. Have you ever shown? Seriously, that is a genuine question because I am slightly concerned that you are giving incorrect information out as fact  You can take any size dog in and the judge cannot ask you to leave the ring. If the dog is weighed/measured as over weight or height then that is a FAULT and the judge may well not place your dog, but s/he will not ask you to leave. They can only ask you to leave the ring if your dog is aggressive. Any substance other than water found on the coat can cause your awards to be taken away and is against the rules and you can get a warning/fine. This is something that is written in every schedule as it is part of the KC showing regulations. That is completely different to the conformation of the dog being incorrect, that is the owner cheating by trying to cover up faults on their dogs. The CC winner can be disqualified for many reasons which are covered in the KC rules and regs booklet (i suggest you buy it), a couple of which are using substances other than water on the coat, being entered in a class it is overqualified for, having an op that affects the conformation of the dog without getting KC approval or as with one dog at Crufts this year, not being entered in the schedule and not having proof of postage to show you DID send the entry. These are reasons that a CC winner can and will be disqualified, but they are nothing to do with the actual judging of the dogs physical conformation.

Im not trying to start an argument, but you *are* giving out incorrect information as fact and you really should know what you say is true before saying it 



ETA: My neutered male has won at Champ shows with no testicles so it is not always sensible to assume you wont do well with a neutered dog


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## JRZL

Chiva said:


> And what on earth is wrong with showing a dog because you and the dog enjoy it?
> 
> They can only ask you to leave the ring if your dog is aggressive. Any substance other than water found on the coat can cause your awards to be taken away and is against the rules and you can get a warning/fine. This is something that is written in every schedule as it is part of the KC showing regulations. That is completely different to the conformation of the dog being incorrect, that is the owner cheating by trying to cover up faults on their dogs. The CC winner can be disqualified for many reasons which are covered in the KC rules and regs booklet (i suggest you buy it), a couple of which are using substances other than water on the coat, being entered in a class it is overqualified for, having an op that affects the conformation of the dog without getting KC approval or as with one dog at Crufts this year, not being entered in the schedule and not having proof of postage to show you DID send the entry. These are reasons that a CC winner can and will be disqualified, but they are nothing to do with the actual judging of the dogs physical conformation.
> 
> Im not trying to start an argument, but you *are* giving out incorrect information as fact and you really should know what you say is true before saying it
> 
> 
> 
> ETA: My neutered male has won at Champ shows with no testicles so it is not always sensible to assume you wont do well with a neutered dog


I never said there was anything wrong with showing your dog because you and your dog like showing! I don't know where you got that from but whatever

You are giving incorrect information. In a previous post you said that you cannot be disqualified for anything in the UK show ring (incorrect). Now your saying you can (correct). Please make your mind up.


Im sorry but you are coming across as very rude and i don't appreciate it. I think this is a very nice forum and i enjoy coming her to talk about my dogs and the breed that i love but now you are making me feel unwelcome and making me think about whether i want to come back here.
So can we leave this topic for another thread as this doesn't relate much to this thread.


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## Chiva

If you are that sensitive about being corrected for giving incorrect information then that is something you need to deal with as you wont always be right. I have not been unfriendly at all, i am merely pointing out that what you stated was incorrected - i did not bring up neutering and showing, you did!! In this thread, therefore I see it as being relevant as people may not necessarily find the information in other threads and assume that your first statements were correct. I have said several times now that there are nothing that can stop you from showing your - you clearly have struggled to understand that or are deliberately twisting my words...?? You can be disqualified for CHEATING or for NOT BEING ENTERED and various other reasons. But you could take a 3 legged, 1 eyed dog in the ring and the dog would have to be assessed by the judge and could not be asked to leave the ring (disqualified). You can only have your awards removed AFTER judging if another exhibitor complains on the day of the show. The KC has all these rules and regs in their booklet, as i said, you might want to think of buying it, it is very informative if you are interested in showing.

Im sorry if you have found my posts rude, they were not intended that way. I dont know if you are young or something, but what you stated was wrong (for the UK, as i pointed out) and I corrected that as I happen to have a lot of showing knowledge as a regular exhibitor and judge. If you cannot accept that your information was inaccurate then I dont know what else to say, I have provided links to the information on the KC website, there is nothing more I can do. 

Please tell me what information I have given that is incorrect?


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## Aquarius

It's a shame that a thread that started out so well has turned into an argument.

I know nothing about showing but it does seem quite clear on this official site

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/305

"Dogs which have been spayed or castrated are permitted to be exhibited at Kennel Club licensed events. However, the owner of the dog must inform the Kennel Club, prior to exhibition, of the date of the operation, the name of the veterinary surgeon and the practice where the operation was carried out."


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## Chiva

Aquarius said:


> It's a shame that a thread that started out so well has turned into an argument.
> 
> I know nothing about showing but it does seem quite clear on this official site
> 
> http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/305
> 
> "Dogs which have been spayed or castrated are permitted to be exhibited at Kennel Club licensed events. However, the owner of the dog must inform the Kennel Club, prior to exhibition, of the date of the operation, the name of the veterinary surgeon and the practice where the operation was carried out."



Yes, that was the passage I quoted a page or so back  I was only posting to correct those statements, I hadnt expected it to turn into an argument at all and I dont understand how it has at all


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## 18453

Leah i think this thread is fab... anyone who is thinking about spaying/neutering can look at this and should do their own research and speak to their vet anyway!!!

Chiva - This isn't a UK only forum.. the majority of users are actually American so the information needs to be generalised for everyone.. They also count SC and LC as one breed.. we don't. There will be differences of opinions on things.

I've actually found the information too and i am sure someone mentioned on here recently that you can enter a neutered/spayed dog in the show ring but it has to be for health reasons or something as showing is meant to be how we get our champions to better our breed!!! There are companion shows to do it as a sport.


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## JRZL

Aquarius said:


> It's a shame that a thread that started out so well has turned into an argument.
> 
> I know nothing about showing but it does seem quite clear on this official site
> 
> http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/305
> 
> "Dogs which have been spayed or castrated are permitted to be exhibited at Kennel Club licensed events. However, the owner of the dog must inform the Kennel Club, prior to exhibition, of the date of the operation, the name of the veterinary surgeon and the practice where the operation was carried out."


Is there anyway that you could delete the posts which are argumentative and just keep in the main information about spaying or neutering?


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## Aquarius

Sorry Chiva I did take that from your post and then followed the link - I should have used the quote button


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## Chiva

Daisydoo said:


> Leah i think this thread is fab... anyone who is thinking about spaying/neutering can look at this and should do their own research and speak to their vet anyway!!!
> 
> Chiva - This isn't a UK only forum.. the majority of users are actually American so the information needs to be generalised for everyone.. They also count SC and LC as one breed.. we don't. There will be differences of opinions on things.
> 
> I've actually found the information too and i am sure someone mentioned on here recently that you can enter a neutered/spayed dog in the show ring but it has to be for health reasons or something as showing is meant to be how we get our champions to better our breed!!! There are companion shows to do it as a sport.



That is why i clearly pointed out that I was referring to the UK show rules. This forum is not just for American or other countries and if a statement is incorrect in any country I do believe that a footnote/correction should be added to make that clear 

The dog doesnt have to be neutered for health reasons at all, it can be for any reasons. Not all of us wish to show at companion shows, we want to see our dogs that we have put many years into breeding at Champ shows. I like my veteran dogs to get to Crufts each year if possible to show that they are still good examples of the breed in old age, I cant do that from Companion shows  There are only a handful of champions made up in a breed every year, I dont think the rest of the exhibitors who do it for the sheer enjoyment should miss out because their dog wont be a champion, that seems an incredibly narrow minded point of view...


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## Chiva

JRZL said:


> Is there anyway that you could delete the posts which are argumentative and just keep in the main information about spaying or neutering?


But that would remove the correct information and links I provided??


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## omguthrie

I will throw in that in the US you cannot show a spayed or neutered dog in AKC conformation shows. There are no companion shows here. You can show them in performance events like obedience, agility, etc.


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## JRZL

Chiva said:


> But that would remove the correct information and links I provided??


I only suggested this because I thought people would get bored Reading though all them posts when it would be easier to just have the main pros and cons without the arguement
& if you wanted you could have sumed up what you said all into one post so that this thread wasn't as long because it's unnessicary for it to be this long because of an arguement


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## Aquarius

Sorry we are not allowed delete posts unless they have language, racism, pornographic content etc etc.


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## JRZL

Aquarius said:


> Sorry we are not allowed delete posts unless they have language, racism, pornographic content etc etc.


Anyway I can delete them?


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## Chiva

JRZL said:


> I only suggested this because I thought people would get bored Reading though all them posts when it would be easier to just have the main pros and cons without the arguement
> & if you wanted you could have sumed up what you said all into one post so that this thread wasn't as long because it's unnessicary for it to be this long because of an arguement


My very first reply on this thread does that perfectly but you wouldnt agree with it 

I wouldnt worry about it, there is a lot of information in the subsequent threads about the rules and regulations


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## Bellatrix

Daisydoo said:


> OMG Leah i was just doing something like this today... I've added bits i found out
> 
> Spaying and neutering costs money. Although the cost isn’t extremely high for some owners the cost can be a lot at the time.. There are specialist clinics or organisations who can help you towards the cost should you be on a low income (UK = Celia Hammond & Blue Cross)
> 
> Some Vets prefer to spay after the first season... i've spoken to a couple and thy said the cons were that if you spay pre season it may lead to a higher incidence of urinary incontinence when a female dog is old (but there are medicines that can be given to control this), or "infantile vulva" which may lead to vulval eczema. This is usually sorted by relatively minor plastic surgery.
> 
> Personally i'd rather have a low risk of the above than a higher risk of cancer.


Unfortunately we were in Holland, it cost £240 euros, about £200, is it cheaper in the UK?

I felt the same as you, we had Bella done at 5-6 months . It's also useful because at this age if the dog needs some teeth removed as the smaller chis can they can do it at the same time! Bella had 4 teeth removed and she was 3 lb at the time.


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## Sideribus

JRZL said:


> Sorry but I personally don't see the point in showing a neutered or spayed dog. Showing is about trying to better the breed. And breeding two dogs (show dogs with wins) as close to the standards as possible together, to get more standard puppies which benefits the breed.
> Also since having no testicles is a fault it is highly unlikely that you would get placed in a show as dogs with testicles and less faults overall would be placed higher.


i am aware the thread isnt about showing but you did insist on spouting incorrect information despite being shown actual facts which Chiva backed up her argument with 

You may not see the point in showing a spayed/neutered dog but the fact is you *can*


Is there any info on the rates of cancers etc in unspayed bitches prior to the drives we have now, just to compare i wonder??

Im not against spaying and neutering, just curious


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## cherper

[email protected]:laughing8::laughing8::laughing8:
What will they think of next!


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## 18453

Bellatrix said:


> Unfortunately we were in Holland, it cost £240 euros, about £200, is it cheaper in the UK?
> 
> I felt the same as you, we had Bella done at 5-6 months . It's also useful because at this age if the dog needs some teeth removed as the smaller chis can they can do it at the same time! Bella had 4 teeth removed and she was 3 lb at the time.


Ouch thats expensive.. especially as the Euro is so bad at the moment.. that just made me wince.. My vet charges £120 for the spay i dunno how much it'll be having her teeth pulled at the same time... will just smile and hope he doesn't charge me!!!

The links i put up.. like blue cross pay a percentage towards the cost.. as they do for any treatment if you can prove your on a low income (and not insured although for spaying they will pay) i think they pay £75 towards the spay and £50 towards a neuter!!


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## Ninja

Hey guys, I'm getting my little man neutered in June and I was wondering about after care. He's a rambuncious guy and loves to randomly speed around the apartment. Will he tear the stitches if he does this after being neutered? Should I put him on lockdown for a week? lol


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## Brodysmom

Ninja said:


> Hey guys, I'm getting my little man neutered in June and I was wondering about after care. He's a rambuncious guy and loves to randomly speed around the apartment. Will he tear the stitches if he does this after being neutered? Should I put him on lockdown for a week? lol


Brody is active too and he was fine. I tried to keep him from jumping on and off the furniture and taking the stairs at full speed but it was hard. On the second day he was a little sore, but after that he acted totally normal. He had internal sutures and never bothered them at all. After a week you couldn't tell anything had been done at all. (Well, except for some missing parts. ha)


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## Ninja

Brodysmom said:


> Brody is active too and he was fine. I tried to keep him from jumping on and off the furniture and taking the stairs at full speed but it was hard. On the second day he was a little sore, but after that he acted totally normal. He had internal sutures and never bothered them at all. After a week you couldn't tell anything had been done at all. (Well, except for some missing parts. ha)


Okay, thanks for the help Brodysmom!


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## Chihuahuasloveme

my male is neutered and he still marks all over the house so I don't agree with that it prevents marking not in all males mine is living proof lol


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## 18453

Chihuahuasloveme said:


> my male is neutered and he still marks all over the house so I don't agree with that it prevents marking not in all males mine is living proof lol


Generally it does if they're neutered early enough before they start marking... whilst they're still squatting to wee


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## Chix

Daisydoo said:


> Generally it does if they're neutered early enough before they start marking... whilst they're still squatting to wee


Yes that's right  Once they learn how to mark (cocking the leg) you can't unlearn it.


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## Brodysmom

Chihuahuasloveme said:


> my male is neutered and he still marks all over the house so I don't agree with that it prevents marking not in all males mine is living proof lol


Wasn't he used as a stud dog? Yes, once that is learned it is very, very hard to un-do. That's why I recommend neutering before puberty. Or at least before a year old. Once a dog starts marking it's almost impossible to stop it. That's why belly bands were invented.


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## Chiva

Wow, people advocate neutering while they are still very young pups? That is SO wrong to me. Neutering removes the hormones that are so important to aid correct growth, IMO it should not been considered until the dog is fully mature. We dont neuter our labs before 2 years old and advise our new owners to wait until at least a year unless their situation really doesnt allow for it. I wouldnt neuter a small breed dog like a chi before a year. I can understand if you have entire females and stuff, but I hate to hear of pups being neutered at like, 8 weeks old, which i know is done in the US


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## Chihuahuasloveme

Brodysmom said:


> Wasn't he used as a stud dog? Yes, once that is learned it is very, very hard to un-do. That's why I recommend neutering before puberty. Or at least before a year old. Once a dog starts marking it's almost impossible to stop it. That's why belly bands were invented.


I bred him with my own female when he was 7 months old and then got his twins chopped off. He didn't mark anymore for a while and then all of a sudden he started again recently. I should add he will be 3 years old this august he was neutered at a year old


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## Beth&Emma

We just neutered are male chihuahua Cooper at 6 months I have a female chihuahua Emma who went into heat the week before she was set to get fixed and it was awful she was absolutely miserable! We had to wait for her to reach 2 pounds before we could get her fixed and she didn't reach 2 pounds till she was over year old or we would have had her fixed before she went into heat. She is getting fixed next week.


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## Buildthemskywards

Hi

Does everyone agree on neutering/spaying at some point then? I've had several female dogs when I was growing up and my mum never had any of them spayed and I never noticed any mess or change in moods and never had a problem with unwanted puppies. I keep reading research but I'm still not sure what is best for the me and the dog. I don't mind paying the cost if it's what's best but a friend's kitten recently died during being spayed and I wouldn't want to risk that unless absolutely necessary. 

Are Chihuahuas more likely to suffer from complications with neutering/spaying than oer dogs?

Also, I was wondering whether I should get a female or male. I've only ever had females but people's opinion seems to be that personality wise it doesn't make a huge difference and it's down to the individual dog rather than gender. I wouldn't want a male that...er...humps people/things but I'm told that neutering stops this. Also neutering is less expensive and less risky than spaying which draws me towards a male if I am going to neuter/spay the dog. Any thoughts? 

I've read all the pros and cons and just can't come out with a decision! :dontknow::|


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## bayoumah

hi thanks for all the inf


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