# chicken legs and other meats



## misskittin1978

Hi there just started my babies on RAW. They are ok with chicken, can someone tell me if the chicken leg bone is ok to feed ? It just looked big for such a small dog ?
Also Nacho doesn't like Kidney, any tips of how to get him to eat it ? 
As i will start to introduce new meats next week can you please tell me what cuts of Pork and Beef you suggest I get them ?
The cheaper cuts of Pork are fatty and have skin, am i supposed to remove the fat and skin ??
Thanks everyone !!


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## Brodysmom

I personally don't use chicken legs or thighs for bone content. I use cornish hens, quail, or rabbit as they are a better size and softer bones. Those chicken leg bones are big, heavy, and hard. I guess they could chew on the ends which are softer but I wouldn't let them consume the whole leg bones. You can also do chicken necks and wings for bone content, also backs. But I stay away from the leg bones.

I wait until they are completely assimilated on a meat variety before adding liver/kidney. I do that last. About a month in or so. So you have time on that.

You can do any cuts of pork or beef you choose. Heart is an excellent choice as it's very nutritious. Tongue is also good as it's very chewy and a good workout. Otherwise pork chops, roasts or beef roasts or steaks work. Whatever works in your budget. For new raw fed dogs, I do remove most of the fat/skin. Then gradually add it back in slowly.


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## Deerboy's Momma

misskittin1978 said:


> Hi there just started my babies on RAW. They are ok with chicken, can someone tell me if the chicken leg bone is ok to feed ? It just looked big for such a small dog ?
> Also Nacho doesn't like Kidney, any tips of how to get him to eat it ?
> As i will start to introduce new meats next week can you please tell me what cuts of Pork and Beef you suggest I get them ?
> The cheaper cuts of Pork are fatty and have skin, am i supposed to remove the fat and skin ??
> Thanks everyone !!


I'm not sure how small your dogs are, but Chip is 11 lbs. and does just fine with drumsticks and wings. You should just be feeding 2.5-3% of their body weight (3 oz. for Chip), so unless they're very large, a whole drumstick is probably too large and a quarter, especially, is way too big. I chop a drumstick straight where the meat ends and you just see bone, and then typically cut off a bit of the meat, and that's right around 3 oz. 

Some dogs do not like organs, but I add in organ meat last. Chip has been on raw for two and a half months, and he just got beef heart last week. Heart isn't even an organ meat; it's a muscle meat, so you have to look at it like chicken meat, etc. It's just VERY rich, so to start off, only feed a tiny, tiny bit of it. Same with liver! Start off with a small, quarter-sized piece and work your way up. You can LIGHTLY sear the kidney if he doesn't like it...or you could just shove it down his throat.  Organ meat isn't imperative yet if you just started, but they do need it eventually. 

I do not feed any beef except the heart, mainly because it is expensive and there are other things you can feed. 

Week 1 and 2, I'd do JUST bone-in chicken.
Week 3, IF your dog has had no diarrhea, add in turkey necks (these bones are more dense). Rotate between chicken and turkey for meals- don't mix it yet. If you feed your dog once a day, Monday would be chicken, Tuesday would be turkey, Wed. would be chicken, etc. If you feed twice a day, then it's chicken in the mornings and turkey at night.
Week 4, IF your dog has had no diarrhea, add bone-in pork, like pork ribs. Chip LOVES them. Keep rotating meals evenly. 
Week 5, if your dog has had no diarrhea, then add in fish. Some dogs don't like raw fish, so canned fish (salmon or sardines) is okay. You need to get Omega-3's in the dog's diet. Make sure that, if you get canned fish, you get the kind that has skin and bones included. Fish bones are very soft! You don't want to feed canned fish forever, because of the sodium content. I haven't fed raw fish yet (because of the price of salmon), but do plan on feeding raw mackerel and shark (!) in the next two weeks. 
Week 6 (ONLY if there have been no diarrhea instances!), add in beef heart. Sandwich the beef heart meal inbetween two chicken meals, and make the first beef heart meal half beef/half chicken. Don't be surprised if your dog does have diarrhea with the beef heart.
Week 7, add in organ meat. Pork liver or kidney is the best to start out with. Only give your dog a TINY amount at first, and work up to being able to feed bigger amounts. Don't forget, organ meat needs to only be 10% of your raw ratio! 80% muscle meat (beef heart is a muscle meat!), 10% organ meat, 10% bone. When you are first transitioning your dog, it will be more like 60% muscle meat, 40% bone, and that's okay, because your dog needs to detox off the kibble and won't be able to handle much different ratios until he's finished transitioning. 

For Chip, the only pork I'll really feed are the ribs and the organs. Not because they're expensive, but just because I don't like the bones. NEVER feed weight-bearing bones. If you do feed pork chops, I'd remove the bone. 

I haven't used cornish hens/quail/rabbit because a.) the price, and b.) my dog personally does just fine on chicken drummies. I do plan on adding quail in soon, but just as variety, not to take out his chicken.


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## Brodysmom

Good post Chelsea! You are 100% right on the pork chop bones. They are sawed, so they can have sharp edges so definitely take them out and just feed the meat. 

Pork ribs are fine as are beef ribs. Brody usually just works hard on them, taking off all the meat/cartilage until they are stripped clean and then he gnaws on them for awhile, but doesn't ingest much of the bone. Most of his bone content is cornish hens.

Also lamb breast is good too for variety. It's very fatty, so I cut all that off and save the meat. The bones are a good size and soft, so they are another good bone source.

It's fine to be bone heavy in the beginning, but you are aiming for eventually feeding mostly meat (80%), a little bone (10%) and a smidge of organs (5% liver and 5% other organ such as kidney). I keep chicken wing sections in the freezer and if Brody has a loose stool, I throw him a chicken wing tip or middle section and the extra bone firms him right up. Easy.


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## Deerboy's Momma

Brodysmom said:


> Good post Chelsea! You are 100% right on the pork chop bones. They are sawed, so they can have sharp edges so definitely take them out and just feed the meat.
> 
> Pork ribs are fine as are beef ribs. Brody usually just works hard on them, taking off all the meat/cartilage until they are stripped clean and then he gnaws on them for awhile, but doesn't ingest much of the bone. Most of his bone content is cornish hens.
> 
> Also lamb breast is good too for variety. It's very fatty, so I cut all that off and save the meat. The bones are a good size and soft, so they are another good bone source.
> 
> It's fine to be bone heavy in the beginning, but you are aiming for eventually feeding mostly meat (80%), a little bone (10%) and a smidge of organs (5% liver and 5% other organ such as kidney). I keep chicken wing sections in the freezer and if Brody has a loose stool, I throw him a chicken wing tip or middle section and the extra bone firms him right up. Easy.


I completely forgot about beef ribs...probably because I can't find them ANYWHERE. It must just be my area, but I can never find any of the normal stuff...and never for very cheap  Are your cornish hens cheap there? Or lamb? A pair of cornish hens here are 6.50 (ouch- that's 3 12-packs of chicken drummies at the international market!), and lamb is EXTREMELY expensive. 

Isn't fat good for them? That's why I get veal heart instead of "beef heart"...more fat on it. It smells DISGUSTING, though.


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## Brodysmom

I look for sales on cornish hens. I can usually get them for about $2.00 for a one pound hen. I don't mind paying that as I whack it up into about 8 pieces and that is 2 ounce chunks which are frozen and doled out every 2-3 days for bone content, along with wing sections. So a hen lasts a long time! I fill in the rest of the meals with whatever meat I have .... beef, pork, venison, etc. I try to keep red meat as the majority of his diet.

Walmart carried the lamb breast cheap. A big rack of them was $7.00 last time I bought them. Granted, much of it is wasted as it is just pure fat, but I still think that's a good deal for variety.

I do feed fat. I leave the skin on the hen pieces and I leave most of the fat/marbling on the pork and beef. I do cut off massive chunks of it or hanging blobs of fat. But yes, fat is necessary for energy in dogs. They don't build up fat in their arteries as people do so there's no harm in feeding it, and in fact it is healthy for them in moderation. 

Veal heart would be an awesome food! I would feed it as is, but if there is a huge fat cap, I would probably remove some of that. I really like any kind of heart as they are full of vitamins/minerals and have a different nutrient profile than regular muscle meats.


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## Mel's chi's

as you know, I mostly grind all my meat including bones so their paws and chests aren't a mess (gross when they want to cuddle---which is all the time!). I am just too busy (or lazy) to clean them off adequately after both meals
SO....on most weekends I try and give whole bones to gnaw on. It's a treat for them and I have more time to groom. During the week I give out bully sticks or lamb twizzles so they get chew time. I haven't "splurged" on the cornish hen's yet, but after seeing how you chop them up Tracy, I am going to try this weekend! It would be better if I was only feeding 1, but I've got 4 and the border collie (I'll get her something else special) so I'll really be looking for the sales--lol!

Is anyone else as picky as I am about the grooming thing


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## Brodysmom

Mel's chi's said:


> Is anyone else as picky as I am about the grooming thing


I feed on a beach towel so there's no mess on the floor. Brody has a really short coat, so there's really never any mess at all on him that I have seen. If he needs it, I just use a baby wipe on his mouth and paws, but I rarely have to do that. Maybe he is just a dainty eater? :coolwink:


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## Deerboy's Momma

Mel's chi's said:


> Is anyone else as picky as I am about the grooming thing


I feed Chip on linoleum, and he only eats once a day. He typically keeps it in the bowl, which I then wash, and if he drops some on the floor, I wipe it down with a clorox wipe. Grinding up the bones doesn't give the dog the same dental benefits, so I always stay away from ground meat...I want him to chew the bones for a reason, LOL. He's not messy, either.


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## Natti

Maisies a white (and fawn) longcoat, and messy eater, and she doesnt get covered when she eats - I almost never give ground up food to my girls, as they dont get the teeth cleaning or psychological benefits that whole chunks of meat give


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## Natti

and just to add, im a NIGHTMARE when it comes to grooming with my two - they're allowed to get dirty and muddy, when out, but inside its straight into the bath if they're dirty


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## Mel's chi's

Brodysmom said:


> I look for sales on cornish hens. I can usually get them for about $2.00 for a one pound hen. I don't mind paying that as I whack it up into about 8 pieces and that is 2 ounce chunks which are frozen and doled out every 2-3 days for bone content, along with wing sections. So a hen lasts a long time! I fill in the rest of the meals with whatever meat I have .... beef, pork, venison, etc. I try to keep red meat as the majority of his diet.
> 
> Walmart carried the lamb breast cheap. A big rack of them was $7.00 last time I bought them. Granted, much of it is wasted as it is just pure fat, but I still think that's a good deal for variety.
> 
> I do feed fat. I leave the skin on the hen pieces and I leave most of the fat/marbling on the pork and beef. I do cut off massive chunks of it or hanging blobs of fat. But yes, fat is necessary for energy in dogs. They don't build up fat in their arteries as people do so there's no harm in feeding it, and in fact it is healthy for them in moderation.
> 
> Veal heart would be an awesome food! I would feed it as is, but if there is a huge fat cap, I would probably remove some of that. I really like any kind of heart as they are full of vitamins/minerals and have a different nutrient profile than regular muscle meats.


Hey Tracy, have cornish hens in hand....how do you divvy up? I saw portions of 8...any specific way, or half it and then again and again? Also, I am wondering how long it usually takes them to eat their portion...Brody's an expert, so he will be faster I'm sure! Mine will have to play with it first I'm sure...will be dividing it between all 4 this weekend and saving the other half for another weekend cause as you know I will need to bath them:laughing8:


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## Brodysmom

Mel's chi's said:


> Hey Tracy, have cornish hens in hand....how do you divvy up? I saw portions of 8...any specific way, or half it and then again and again? Also, I am wondering how long it usually takes them to eat their portion...Brody's an expert, so he will be faster I'm sure! Mine will have to play with it first I'm sure...will be dividing it between all 4 this weekend and saving the other half for another weekend cause as you know I will need to bath them:laughing8:


I just get poultry scissors and cut it up! legs and thighs are 4 chunks. Wings are another chunk. Then I cut up the breast/back into hunks and add those in also. I try to make sure each portion has meat/bone/skin. It doesn't have to be exact.

How long it takes him to eat it.... hmmm..... probably 5 minutes? He's not a gulper. 

If you're curious to see dogs eating chicken quarters or other pieces of raw meaty bones, just go to youtube and put in raw feeding and you will find a ton of videos. That helped me a LOT when I first started this diet to feel comfortable with how dogs eat. They don't grind like we do. Their jaws move up and down only not side to side so they basically just chomp the piece enough to get it down the hatch. If it doesn't go down, they hack it up and re-try. That's normal. 

I either try to feed big or small. It's the in between sizes that can cause problems like choking. It's definitely a matter of knowing your dogs and how they eat. If one is a gulper or a stupid eater, either feed a large piece, let him work on it for awhile and then take away - or else grind or feed it in small pieces. Your border collie, for example, wouldn't be given chicken necks as they are the perfect size to choke on if they went down the wrong way and blocked the trachea. But a chicken neck would be fine for a chi. 

Hope that makes sense!


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## Poppy's Mom

misskittin1978 said:


> Hi there just started my babies on RAW. They are ok with chicken, can someone tell me if the chicken leg bone is ok to feed ? It just looked big for such a small dog ?
> Also Nacho doesn't like Kidney, any tips of how to get him to eat it ?
> As i will start to introduce new meats next week can you please tell me what cuts of Pork and Beef you suggest I get them ?
> The cheaper cuts of Pork are fatty and have skin, am i supposed to remove the fat and skin ??
> Thanks everyone !!


Hi! I don't think you should give your Chi chicken bones, from the bones they came out small hard pieces and might stuck in your dog's throat. Those bones that are sold in the shops are 

I decided not to feed my dog any 'weird' food, since my Chi has diarrhea for 3 times, after I fed her cooked rice and tuna, minced meat even without spice, and even those dried pork ears from pet store! I thought Chihuahuas have sensitive stomach, so I stick with the dog food and treats.


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## Brodysmom

Poppy's Mom said:


> Hi! I don't think you should give your Chi chicken bones, from the bones they came out small hard pieces and might stuck in your dog's throat. Those bones that are sold in the shops are
> 
> I decided not to feed my dog any 'weird' food, since my Chi has diarrhea for 3 times, after I fed her cooked rice and tuna, minced meat even without spice, and even those dried pork ears from pet store! I thought Chihuahuas have sensitive stomach, so I stick with the dog food and treats.


Eva, you are mistaken. Dogs certainly CAN eat raw meats and bones. Cooked bones are harmful, perhaps you are thinking of that? There are thousands and thousands of people who are feeding raw diets and have been for years and their dogs are thriving. 

I agree with you - do NOT feed your dog cooked rice, tuna, minced cooked meats, or pig ears. They certainly can cause diarrhea. 

But a balanced raw diet is the HEALTHIEST and BEST thing you could ever hope to feed your dog!


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## Poppy's Mom

Brodysmom said:


> Eva, you are mistaken. Dogs certainly CAN eat raw meats and bones. Cooked bones are harmful, perhaps you are thinking of that? There are thousands and thousands of people who are feeding raw diets and have been for years and their dogs are thriving.
> 
> I agree with you - do NOT feed your dog cooked rice, tuna, minced cooked meats, or pig ears. They certainly can cause diarrhea.
> 
> But a balanced raw diet is the HEALTHIEST and BEST thing you could ever hope to feed your dog!


Thank you for you reply! But I don't dare to try feeding my Chi raw food since her stomach is way too sensitive. I have books tell all about Chihuahua, but somehow all the info from internet does not really match in all places. So I'm gonna play safe. Just high quality dog food and some fresh vegetables.


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## Poppy's Mom

Brodysmom said:


> Eva, you are mistaken. Dogs certainly CAN eat raw meats and bones. Cooked bones are harmful, perhaps you are thinking of that? There are thousands and thousands of people who are feeding raw diets and have been for years and their dogs are thriving.
> 
> I agree with you - do NOT feed your dog cooked rice, tuna, minced cooked meats, or pig ears. They certainly can cause diarrhea.
> 
> But a balanced raw diet is the HEALTHIEST and BEST thing you could ever hope to feed your dog!


And Tracy, what about the possible cause of salmonella from raw chicken? I understand that it has been years that dogs survived from all kind of food. But I thought that Chihuahuas are bred to this way that they can't really survive in the woods anymore and they need special care. Forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm still new mom.


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## Natti

Dogs have a completely different digestive system to humans - Their bodys have no trouble dealing with all kinds of bactera and visuses (such as salmonella). All dogs look differnt on the outside, but inside the dogs dna is still 99.8% wolf - While a Chihuahua may be tiny, they just have a smaller version of a wolves digestive system. If you consider that Kibble was only introduced in the 1850-1860s, which is nowhere near enough time for a dogs digestive system to alter (it takes thousands and thousands of years). 

When it comes down to it, they're just miniature (friendly) wolves sharing our lives - Genetically they are almost identical and digestion-wise they ARE still identical - I mean you wouldnt feed a tiger or even a wolf kibble, you'd give them their natural diet of Meat, Bones and organs - Why feed any carnivore any other way?


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## Poppy's Mom

Natti said:


> Dogs have a completely different digestive system to humans - Their bodys have no trouble dealing with all kinds of bactera and visuses (such as salmonella). All dogs look differnt on the outside, but inside the dogs dna is still 99.8% wolf - While a Chihuahua may be tiny, they just have a smaller version of a wolves digestive system. If you consider that Kibble was only introduced in the 1850-1860s, which is nowhere near enough time for a dogs digestive system to alter (it takes thousands and thousands of years).
> 
> When it comes down to it, they're just miniature (friendly) wolves sharing our lives - Genetically they are almost identical and digestion-wise they ARE still identical - I mean you wouldnt feed a tiger or even a wolf kibble, you'd give them their natural diet of Meat, Bones and organs - Why feed any carnivore any other way?


Hi Nat!

So I can feed my Chi with all kind of raw meat? e.g. chicken, pork, beef and fish without having stomach problems? Is it gonna cause any breath problems?


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## Mel's chi's

Poppy's Mom said:


> Hi Nat!
> 
> So I can feed my Chi with all kind of raw meat? e.g. chicken, pork, beef and fish without having stomach problems? Is it gonna cause any breath problems?


I have been feeding RAW for 12 + years...I got started because I had a dog with seizures and a vet from one of the top veterinary schools (Shand's Univ of Florida) put me on it along with herbs. I have been feeding RAW ever since with excellent health results! I don't think any dog has mouthwash breath, but when mine get a bit too funky I throw in some ground parsley (maybe a few times a month). I also like to add a bit of juiced collard greens on occasion...usually with the parsley...kind of like a green drink for us! Otherwise it's the raw meat and bones. Be sure to check out the raw feeding articles on this forum for great info!!:hello1:


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## Brodysmom

Poppy's Mom said:


> And Tracy, what about the possible cause of salmonella from raw chicken? I understand that it has been years that dogs survived from all kind of food. But I thought that Chihuahuas are bred to this way that they can't really survive in the woods anymore and they need special care. Forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm still new mom.


Hi Eva - I was concerned about this too when I first started out feeding raw over 2 years ago. But the more I read, the more I researched, the more I realized that raw meat/bones/organs was nature's perfect food designed for our little guys. 

This site really helped me when I was questioning the raw diet - it's excellent! Be sure and read through the pages. You'll come away with a great understanding of what the raw diet is, how it evolved, and why it is BEST for our dogs.

Myths About Raw: Will the bacteria in raw meat hurt my dog?

For me personally, I really saw the light when I looked at Brody's teeth. They aren't like ours, which have flat molars made for grinding grains and we have a side to side jaw movement. Dogs have the identical dentition/teeth of wolves. Sharp teeth made to rip and tear meat. To crush bones. They don't have molars with flat tops because they aren't cows. Their jaws don't move side to side. They don't need teeth to chew grain. In fact, grain is counter productive to their systems and is VERY hard to digest. When is the last time you saw a dog grazing in a corn or wheat field? No? That's because it's not a natural diet for them. So WHY do we insist on feeding our dogs CEREAL? That can stay good in a bag for months and months and months? Doesn't it make sense that FRESH raw foods would be best? 

And yes, kibble fed dogs DO shed salmonella and other pathogens in their stool. (As do we). Dogs also lick their butts, their privates, walk around barefoot outside and step in who knows what and then lick it off. They aren't human, they are dogs, and they should eat like the carnivores they are.


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