# Demodex



## ChiMama2Hs (Sep 10, 2010)

*Demodex (now with a PIC)*

I wanna say someone mentioned it before in another thread...but has anyone here ever had problems with their chis having demodectic mange as a pup?

If so, how did you go about treatment...how bad was it...and how long did it take for the hair to grow back?

My little Heidi has been treated with Promeris a few times now and we are seeing great improvements on the skin scrapings...and she rarely scratches herself anymore...but her poor balding body still looks horrid!
I also worry still because I am aware that it can get worse before it gets better when the hormones come in around the 5 month mark. :foxes15:

ugh!
Any info, advice, discussion would be appreciated!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Demodex is a mite that is opportunistic. It is present in almost every dog, but only surfaces to cause a problem when the immune system is whacked. So I would be looking at the whole picture, the big picture, to see what is going on with your puppy. What kind of stresses is she under. Diet and nutrition play a huge part. So does over vaccinating and wormings. 

What has her vaccination schedule and worming been like? What products are you using now?

What is she eating?


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## ChiMama2Hs (Sep 10, 2010)

She actually almost died twice at four weeks of age and at 6 weeks of age. I didn't adopt her until she was eight weeks but tried to oversee her treatment with the breeder...the litter had fading puppy syndrome and all the pups had bad Upper Respiratories...I think that was the catalyst for her immune deficiency. She has only received two Distemper, etc./Parvo vaccines so far at 14 weeks... One at 10 weeks and one just today. She has never been wormed...has never had worms  (at least since I've had her). Today she got her first bath...medicated oatmeal shampoo...and the only other meds she has ever had is .1 mL of Profender two times at one week apart, and a round of amoxicillian for her skin sores related to the mange. 
She eats Royal Canin small dog puppy mixed with Solid Gold puppy.

This is such an upsetting skin condition! I am sad to see my little girl going so bald! 
Have you ever had a dog with this, Tracy?


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## ChiMama2Hs (Sep 10, 2010)

My babycakes! (aka Baldi-locks!) ha


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

The vet should not have given her shots while her immune system was stressed (demodex) that can make matters worse. I would not give her any more shots, probably ever, since she does have immunity issues the shots will just keep suppressing her system and cause problems. My Zoey hasn't had shots since she was 1 year old (she's almost 5). I would also switch her to a grain free diet as the mites live/feed off of the yeast/wheat grains in her system. Some good ones are: Orijen/Acana, Wellness Core, Solid Gold Barking at the moon etc) or Raw (raw would be optimal for her). I would give her salmon oil every day. Adding Vit E to her diet will help, maybe 1 capsule every other day, as well as maybe rubbing some of the oil on her skin daily.

Here are a couple of links
Demodectic Mange (Red, Puppy, and Follicular Mange) in Dogs

Demodectic Mange

Natural Treatment of Demodex ***This is what I would do if I had a dog with it***
Demodectic Mange


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## ChiMama2Hs (Sep 10, 2010)

cprcheetah said:


> Demodectic Mange
> 
> Natural Treatment of Demodex ***This is what I would do if I had a dog with it***
> Demodectic Mange


Wow! this is an amazing web site with lots of alternative information that I didn't know about... I think I will bring this to show her vet tonight and see what he thinks about it all. 
I never wanted to give her the ivermectin and never have because I did not want to treat systemically... the amatraz was not exactly my first choice either but that I did do and it seems to have at least gotten the ball rolling to where I now may be able to finish the treatment holistically and be successful...

Thanks for the info!!!! I so much appreciate it!!! :hello1:


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

ChiMama2Hs said:


> Wow! this is an amazing web site with lots of alternative information that I didn't know about... I think I will bring this to show her vet tonight and see what he thinks about it all.
> I never wanted to give her the ivermectin and never have because I did not want to treat systemically... the amatraz was not exactly my first choice either but that I did do and it seems to have at least gotten the ball rolling to where I now may be able to finish the treatment holistically and be successful...
> 
> Thanks for the info!!!! I so much appreciate it!!! :hello1:


Just beware a lot of vets will 'poo poo' the information, but you have to be the advocate for your own babies, I am fortunate enough to have my father as my Veterinarian, and he's got a really open mind for most things. He was not sold on raw diets until he has seen the difference it has made in my 3 dogs, now he recommends it to clients.


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## Raqy (Aug 25, 2010)

My Sookie had demodex when we first adopted her from the shelter. It was pretty bad and the same day we got her we went to the vets. She was given ivermectin. Since she was so small, the dose was something like .02cc's a day for the first few days, then little more for a month. I didn't know how bad this could have been on her, but luckily she had no side effects. Now she has a nice shiny coat, she still has some thin spots but those are filling in slowly. It took about a month to see a real difference tho. Here are a few clickable pics.



   

I hope whatever you decide on makes your little one feel better.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Excellent links and info from Heather. 

I would advise no further vaccinations either. Let her system recover. I'd definitely get her on a grain free diet, or something more holistic such as Honest Kitchen or ZiwiPeak. Orijen is an excellent choice as well.


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## RelicDobes (Sep 23, 2009)

Dobermans are very prone to demodex. I helped a friend's doberman that had demodex and we gave ivermectin. we had no side effects. we also gave fish oil and zinc. both are great for coat recovery. I also found a medicated shampoo that worked really well. If I find the link, i will post it. good luck with her, poor girl!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

ChiMama2Hs said:


> My babycakes! (aka Baldi-locks!) ha


It's hard to tell in this photo, but is she a blue? If so, you may be looking at color dilution alopecia. It is a hereditary condition that causes baldness in some blues. Just another thing to consider if she is a blue.


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## skwerlylove (Apr 24, 2010)

I've never heard of treating mange with Promeris (which has some nasty side effects). Typically you'd treat with Ivermectin, and that has a high success rate. Amatraz is also a treatment used (as stated before), but at the clinic we prescribe ivermectin more often than not. It also takes a relatively small dose .1mg per 10lbs I believe... though you'd most definitely verify that with the vet.


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## Raqy (Aug 25, 2010)

I agree with no vaccinations till after the demodex. Sookie was given a vaccination at the shelter but I didn't give her anymore till a few weeks after the ivermectin finished.


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## ChiMama2Hs (Sep 10, 2010)

skwerlylove said:


> I've never heard of treating mange with Promeris (which has some nasty side effects). Typically you'd treat with Ivermectin, and that has a high success rate. Amatraz is also a treatment used (as stated before), but at the clinic we prescribe ivermectin more often than not. It also takes a relatively small dose .1mg per 10lbs I believe... though you'd most definitely verify that with the vet.


Promeris is amatraz in brand name form 
Ivermectin seems to remain the number one treatment but I chose Amitraz instead so I could treat her topically rather than systemically.


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## ChiMama2Hs (Sep 10, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> It's hard to tell in this photo, but is she a blue? If so, you may be looking at color dilution alopecia. It is a hereditary condition that causes baldness in some blues. Just another thing to consider if she is a blue.



Sadly, no....

She's black and white  She looks that way because her skin is white and she is missing more than 50 % of her hair. 

She used to look like this:


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

ChiMama2Hs said:


> Sadly, no....
> 
> She's black and white  She looks that way because her skin is white and she is missing more than 50 % of her hair.
> 
> She used to look like this:


Ok, I'm glad she's not a blue! I think that if you build up her immune system and minimize stresses (no vaccinations) and feed her holistically she will recover. NO grains.

Give her body time to fight this off. You could add in some high quality salmon oil as well to help her coat/skin.


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## ChiMama2Hs (Sep 10, 2010)

thanks guys! 

She is now eating Natural Instinct grain free diet, and I have added Salmon Oil and Colostrum to her meals.  
No more vaccines until it is done.
She will still be using her Profender for heartworm prevention and I will likely still give her 0.1 mL of Promeris monthly until the skin scrapings improve...
So I guess I am treating both naturally in the ways I can, and medically in the ways that I think are effective yet conservative (the amount of promeris she receives is probably a twentieth of the packet intended to be put on a dog her size at once!)

Once again, I really appreciate all of your help and well-wishes! I love this pup!


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## QUIGLEY'S MOM (Jan 12, 2010)

ChiMama2Hs said:


> My babycakes! (aka Baldi-locks!) ha


She is darling. Sweet little baby. She is cute whether she has hair or not!


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## Fizzy Chihuahuas (Mar 8, 2010)

My Domino had Demodex as a puppy ... 

When I got him his skin/fur was perfect .. I got him 1 week after he had had both his vacinations , he came from a good breeder ( One of my very best friends ) so I know he was well cared for / fed correctly etc .. He was with me a week and he started to get a few pald patches around his eyes & on his neck .. He was treated with 'Advocate' once a month for 3 months and his fur started to grow back , he also had ( still has) Salmon oil once a day .. 
His coat is now thick and shinny ... If he gets stressed ( booster time / fireworks time etc his fur does get a bit thin ) he isn't a confident dog ...


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It can be a horrible condition. The compromised immune system that causes the body to be affected by the mites is considered hereditary. Every dog affected should be altered for two reasons. One, you don't want to possbily pass this to the next generation. Two, removing the stress of hormonal changes from seasons/breeding etc., the incidences of outbreaks reduces or stops all together. I've seen dogs come in the clinic that were so bad they had no hair, secondary skin infections, systemic infections, etc. It can be quiet tragic. I've only been through it with personal dogs twice. The first one was a puppy I bred who I was showing. She was 7 months old and had a quarter sized area of hair loss. She was almost finished but I pulled her, spayed her, and placed her in a pet home. I was shocked as no other dog ever had it. I contacted the dam's breeder and found out that she didn't "worry" about localized (small areas affected) demadex, only generalized (almost all over). So mom was spayed too. Urgh! The second case is my Dane, Mini. She's a rescue and it's been horrible. She's had oral medication, Promeris, antibiodics, etc. She's been treated for almost 6 months now. Her hair is just coming back but now she has one spot that's weeping again. I'm as frustrated as you are. This is a hard and expensive condition to treat. Keep at it and don't forget to schedule that spay. Otherwise, it's gonna get worse. I've seen it too many times to think that it won't. Mini's spay was moved up to help get this under control. It has helped or otherwise, I think she'd still be bald and we'd still be using oral meds. Oh, I've also had several vets say that Advantage Multi is now considered better than Promeris to treat it. You might want to discuss that with your vet. Good luck. I'm with ya on this one.


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

skwerlylove said:


> I've never heard of treating mange with Promeris (which has some nasty side effects). Typically you'd treat with Ivermectin, and that has a high success rate. Amatraz is also a treatment used (as stated before), but at the clinic we prescribe ivermectin more often than not. It also takes a relatively small dose .1mg per 10lbs I believe... though you'd most definitely verify that with the vet.


The active ingrediant in Promeris is Amatraz. That's why a lot of vets are using it for treatment instead of Mitaban dips. Oral Ivermectin became the treatment of choice when Mitaban became unavailable. I'm not sure if it's back on the market but between the two, I'd rather use the Promeris. Mitaban was horrible stuff!!! I've used Ivermectin safely with the littles and the big ones. You just have to be very sure you give exactly as prescribed, not one drop over. Definately have to work closely with your vet.


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## ChiMama2Hs (Sep 10, 2010)

Fizzy Chihuahuas said:


> My Domino had Demodex as a puppy ...
> 
> When I got him his skin/fur was perfect .. I got him 1 week after he had had both his vacinations , he came from a good breeder ( One of my very best friends ) so I know he was well cared for / fed correctly etc .. He was with me a week and he started to get a few pald patches around his eyes & on his neck .. He was treated with 'Advocate' once a month for 3 months and his fur started to grow back , he also had ( still has) Salmon oil once a day ..
> His coat is now thick and shinny ... If he gets stressed ( booster time / fireworks time etc his fur does get a bit thin ) he isn't a confident dog ...


He is so beautiful, I wouldn't have even known!!!!!  He is such a cute dog! <3

That has actually made me feel a lot better.


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## ChiMama2Hs (Sep 10, 2010)

LiMarChis said:


> I'm so sorry you're going through this. It can be a horrible condition. The compromised immune system that causes the body to be affected by the mites is considered hereditary. Every dog affected should be altered for two reasons. One, you don't want to possbily pass this to the next generation. Two, removing the stress of hormonal changes from seasons/breeding etc., the incidences of outbreaks reduces or stops all together. I've seen dogs come in the clinic that were so bad they had no hair, secondary skin infections, systemic infections, etc. It can be quiet tragic. I've only been through it with personal dogs twice. The first one was a puppy I bred who I was showing. She was 7 months old and had a quarter sized area of hair loss. She was almost finished but I pulled her, spayed her, and placed her in a pet home. I was shocked as no other dog ever had it. I contacted the dam's breeder and found out that she didn't "worry" about localized (small areas affected) demadex, only generalized (almost all over). So mom was spayed too. Urgh! The second case is my Dane, Mini. She's a rescue and it's been horrible. She's had oral medication, Promeris, antibiodics, etc. She's been treated for almost 6 months now. Her hair is just coming back but now she has one spot that's weeping again. I'm as frustrated as you are. This is a hard and expensive condition to treat. Keep at it and don't forget to schedule that spay. Otherwise, it's gonna get worse. I've seen it too many times to think that it won't. Mini's spay was moved up to help get this under control. It has helped or otherwise, I think she'd still be bald and we'd still be using oral meds. Oh, I've also had several vets say that Advantage Multi is now considered better than Promeris to treat it. You might want to discuss that with your vet. Good luck. I'm with ya on this one.


I am so sorry you had to go through all this, too! And that goes for Domino's Mom as well...I can certainly appreciate the time, effort, money, and struggle that goes along with this annoying ailment!!!

It seems like, so far, I have been properly doing everything suggested, both to the extent to which I can do so safely both medically and holistically, thanks to everyone's awesome suggestions :hello1: I so much appreciate all of the advice and well-wishing! as does little Heidi! 
As soon as I can get her spayed safely (she is only 3 and 1/2 months now), I will do so for sure! I never wanted her to go through a heat even before this mange became apparent.

Luckily, I see my vet 30+ hours a week and have a close relationship with him, as he is not only my vet but my boss  So I am very fortunate in that regard!

I will keep you all posted! And if you think of anything else I should know let me know!!!!!


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## devo (Jun 23, 2010)

Oh wow Peebo had this and the vet gave me Promeris.
Applied it every 2 weeks and it was gone by the 2nd week.
Peebo lost all the fur on his left side and about 3/4 on the right it was terrible.
It has been a little over a month now since I finished the Promeris and his fur has all grown back and he looks much better!
Now the down side to Promeris I did a lot of research after I gave it too hin the first time it made him lethargic for 24 hours and I got a little worried. There are some pretty bad things that are on the internet about Promeris but that was the only side effect that he had he still ate but was just "sleepy" his breathing was good his eyes looked fine so I gave it to him the 2nd time and the side effect lasted a few hours and the 3rd time it lasted like half a day. I saw the results of the treatment during the first week.
It freaked me out when I first noticed his fur falling out so I am glad this worked!


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## ChiMama2Hs (Sep 10, 2010)

devo said:


> Oh wow Peebo had this and the vet gave me Promeris.
> Applied it every 2 weeks and it was gone by the 2nd week.
> Peebo lost all the fur on his left side and about 3/4 on the right it was terrible.
> It has been a little over a month now since I finished the Promeris and his fur has all grown back and he looks much better!
> ...


Yah, Heidi has had the Promeris twice so far, and my vet has literally stuck a needle into the applicator tube and pulled out a mere 0.1 mL of the chemical... Using a whole dose, whether it is the XS or not, was something neither he or I were willing to do, as the side effects are VERY scary!
Even on the 0.1 mL, I was at home all night with her, watching her like a hawk and even waking up to check on her multiple times in the night for fear of a reaction. 
Luckily she was fine and didn't even act like anything had happened...

And another scary thing I hadn't realized at first was that the amitraz is a kind of MAOI, so it could be very toxic to anyone or any pet on an SSRI such as Prozac, etc.! It is definitely something to be careful with, but I am very glad it worked and that your baby got better, as I hope mine will soon!


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## devo (Jun 23, 2010)

ChiMama2Hs said:


> Yah, Heidi has had the Promeris twice so far, and my vet has literally stuck a needle into the applicator tube and pulled out a mere 0.1 mL of the chemical... Using a whole dose, whether it is the XS or not, was something neither he or I were willing to do, as the side effects are VERY scary!
> Even on the 0.1 mL, I was at home all night with her, watching her like a hawk and even waking up to check on her multiple times in the night for fear of a reaction.
> Luckily she was fine and didn't even act like anything had happened...
> 
> And another scary thing I hadn't realized at first was that the amitraz is a kind of MAOI, so it could be very toxic to anyone or any pet on an SSRI such as Prozac, etc.! It is definitely something to be careful with, but I am very glad it worked and that your baby got better, as I hope mine will soon!


Oh I forgot to add that I only used less than half of the amount that was in the applicator Peebo was only 3.7 pounds at the time. 
I am happy that she didnt experience any side effects that stuff is really strong but it works the fur will be all back in no time!


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## ChiMama2Hs (Sep 10, 2010)

I hope you are right!!!

I know it is getting there because when I pet her backwards I can feel all the stubblies like when I forget to shave my legs, LOL


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

I didnt read through all the other responses, just wanted to share that Reese had demodectic mange when he was a puppy too. He had a really tiny bald spot on his back and they did a scraping and found it was demodectic mange. Our vet said he thought Reese's immune system would likely kick it on its own, and to just keep an eye on it. He said we could treat it, but it would be just as likely to clear up if we put medicine, peanut butter, or nothing on it. They told me to watch for new spots or for his current spot to grow larger, and if it did we could pursue treatment then. Sure enough, it cleared up just fine by itself.


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## Fizzy Chihuahuas (Mar 8, 2010)

ChiMama2Hs said:


> He is so beautiful, I wouldn't have even known!!!!!  He is such a cute dog! <3
> 
> That has actually made me feel a lot better.


Thank you  this is a new photo of him ( you can see the thin hair on his neck )


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