# Better quality dog food for liver problems?



## svdreamer

I need a better quality low protein liver formula dog food then Hill's prescription. Reading the ingredients, there is potential for allergies big time. The dog food analysis site gave it only one star. It gave the Royal Canin hepatic formula a two star rating. Anyone know of a better brand and quality food for Smoke? Bad enough he will be getting no protein while growing as a pup, I want to have at least the best quality food I can get for him.


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## cherper

I found this that looks decent , it's the lowest protein i've seen, and i've been looking. But it's low in fat too. Not sure if you need low fat or not.
Dog Food Reviews - Nutro Ultra Holistic Weight Management - Powered by ReviewPost


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## Brodysmom

What is the diagnosis? Is it a shunt? 

I would join one of the liver disease yahoo groups. They have a ton of information on diets and supplements. I know that milk thistle is recommended along with denarin (spelling?)

I know some people have been very successful feeding their liver dogs on a raw diet. Raw meat is mostly water. The actual protein content of chicken breast, for example is 18% and if you took off the skin, it would be low fat.


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## svdreamer

Thank you for the info. The protein count in the prescription food is 14.5% and is low in copper and sodium and high in other electrolytes. And Brodysmom, I do not think raw would be good in a dog you don't want to have protein as meat is protein. I also found this article that scared me off on trying it for Smoke.
Cautions on Raw Foods (Raw Meat) and Epileptic Dogs

There is a vegetarian diet I was looking at, I have to see what the vet thinks of it. The grains are better quality, but the protein is 16% and I have to see about the copper and sodium %.

Oh, and she isn't sure if it is a shunt or not, he could have had gotten into something. We will know more in two weeks.


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## flippedstars

Oh lord, do NOT put him on a vegetarian formula. 

Can you try him on one of the hones kitchen formulas? Some are around 21 % protein. Natural Balance also has some decent limited ingredient kibbles which are reasonably priced, also around 21% protein.

Costco has Kirkland brands -- its FAR better and FAR cheaper than science diet. Still not the GREATEST kibble but might give your entire pack a boost?  I would guess cost must cross your mind w/ food w/ so many pups 

California Natural also may be a good choice. Go with an adult formula rather than the puppy ; the protein content will be lower.


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## Chihuahuasloveme

svdreamer said:


> Thank you for the info. The protein count in the prescription food is 14.5% and is low in copper and sodium and high in other electrolytes. And Brodysmom, I do not think raw would be good in a dog you don't want to have protein as meat is protein. I also found this article that scared me off on trying it for Smoke.
> Cautions on Raw Foods (Raw Meat) and Epileptic Dogs
> 
> There is a vegetarian diet I was looking at, I have to see what the vet thinks of it. The grains are better quality, but the protein is 16% and I have to see about the copper and sodium %.
> 
> Oh, and she isn't sure if it is a shunt or not, he could have had gotten into something. We will know more in two weeks.


I just clicked on the website you posted as I just started with raw diet but it seems like all the info is on why you shouldn't feed an EPILEPTIC dog a raw diet. It also talks about the meat you get for raw has come from a slaughterhouse and can be contaminated yadda yadda but where ddoes the kibble meat come from? I watched a VERY intriguing documentary done on dog food yesterday and the lady who commentated used to work for the pet food industry and then became a veterinarian. They don;t even use the good parts of meat for the kibble she said they use scrap parts like chicken beak/head, feet, pigs snout etc. I literally just started feeding raw 2-3 weeks ago and haven't seen a huge difference yet so I am in no way in a position to defend raw feeding but just from what I've gathered it seems to me that at least if you feed raw you KNOW what you are feeding. I'm no expert on what the requirements are on your dogs needs but just judging on the link you posted I seem to disagree with.


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## MChis

I'm sorry - I don't know a lot about what's been going on & I apologize in advance if these questions have been answer in another post I missed. I did read your latest post about Smoke. Did they do a bile acid panel on him or just general bloodwork that showed the elevated liver emzymes? Obviously something is going on with him with the seizures & all but I just want to share that Marley had a slight elevation in liver enzymes prior to his neuter (they were 170). I certainly am no vet nor am I questioning yours but I wanted to let you know what our vet told us re: elevated liver enzymes. She said they could be caused from a number of reasons (virus, getting into something containing a bit of bacteria, horsing around with playmates, getting sat on accidentally or "bumped" by a foot accidentally). Anyway, a slight elevation doesn't necessarily mean the liver isn't working properly - only that there had been a trauma to the liver & that it is shedding damaged cells (thus the elevated emzymes in the blood). Marley was put on a milk thissle med (Marin) for a few weeks & recovered just fine.

Anyway, that is why I was curious if he'd had a bile acid test to see what his liver function was looking like. That is something I'd want to know if this was my dog, prior to making a decision as drastic as a vegetarian diet or another low protien diet as protien for a puppy is so important.

Of course if his elevated liver enzymes was directly related to the seizure (such as a shunt) you'd want to find an alternate low protien food. I wouldn't discount the raw diet either. As Tracy said when you look at nutritional information about meat the protien isn't as high as you'd think because fresh meat is high in hydration. This is why so many kibbles are higher in protein...because there is no moisture. You also may want to look at a good wet food or like Kristi mentioned some of the HK formulas are lower in protein as well.

You possibly may see a decrease in symptoms if switching to a more raw or homemade diet (dehydrated or otherwise). Some dogs just do not react well to kibble period. And possibly that's all it would take to improve his health? Again, I'm no vet or anything but it is a direction I wanted to suggest because of some stories I have read in which dogs just plain thrived better healthwise off kibble.

Good luck, I truly hope you're able to find a food that works for him & helps his condition.


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## cprcheetah

Check out this website, it has some good information:
DogAware.com Health: Liver Disease in Dogs


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## svdreamer

I have to not only watch the amount of protein, but the amount of copper, too. Most meat has copper in it. 21% protein is too much, the prescription diet is 14.5% This is so confusing. And Smoke is having seizures. The kibble is baked or cooked, that would kill the bacteria, while with raw, the bacteria would still be alive. The liver is one organ that actually filters the bacteria that has been ingested, and since Smoke is on Phenobarbital, the liver is already working hard on metabolizing a hepatotoxin. So, I don't think raw is the best for him.


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## svdreamer

MChis, I am not sure if they did a bile acid test. I don't think they did. If his enzymes are still elevated when we go back in two weeks, I will get it done. Thank you for the suggestion.


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## Brodysmom

I would also suggest you do a bile acid test. It is fasting. That is really the only way to know if you are dealing with a liver shunt or not. Did your vet not recommend that??

I would certainly encourage you to join the liver yahoo group with members from all over the world who are dealing with liver issues. They will certainly be able to advise you on the most up to date care, diet, treatments, etc. There is no greater source on an issue than people who are living through the same thing! They have the answers you will need and can advise you.

canineliver-d : This list is for owners of dogs who curr

DogLiverDisease : Dog Liver Disease

Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support : Liver Shunt & MVD/HMD Support

I have never dealt with a dog with liver issues so can't speak to that, however on the raw feeding list I am on, with 18,000 members, there ARE people there who are dealing with liver failure, epilepsy, hepatitis, liver shunts, MVD, etc. and having FANTASTIC results from raw. There are always two sides to every story. I would be afraid of kibble - with all the recalls and contamination issues. But to each their own!

We all try to do what is right for our dogs. I'm sure that dealing with this is VERY stressful. I wish you only the best in coming to terms with what you are dealing with and how to handle it.


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## LDMomma

What about the Honest Kitchen Preference. It's at about 12% in the box and then you can add to it.

This link has PDF's of the nutritional content information. Understanding Nutrient Profiles | The Honest Kitchen
for the different formulas. For HK, I'm not sure if the % needs to be when it's dry or as served (hydrated). If it's as served, you could feed Force. I know if you contact them, they will help you out or maybe you could take the PDF's (printed) to your vet.


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## svdreamer

Oh, yeah, they did the fasting test. It came back ok. It was just his liver enzymes that were elevated. I will look at the forums you suggested, Brodysmom. Thank you. And THK may work, I will go look at the ingredients. Brains not working to well, haven't been sleeping much, been sleeping in the dog's room to monitor Smoke. After almost a day without seizures, he had two yesterday. Much better than before, but stll stressful.


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## MChis

svdreamer said:


> Oh, yeah, they did the fasting test. It came back ok. It was just his liver enzymes that were elevated. I will look at the forums you suggested, Brodysmom. Thank you. And THK may work, I will go look at the ingredients. Brains not working to well, haven't been sleeping much, been sleeping in the dog's room to monitor Smoke. After almost a day without seizures, he had two yesterday. Much better than before, but stll stressful.


Well, if his bile acid test came back ok that's fantastic news as far as his liver goes I would think? Is their plan to retest his bloodwork in a couple weeks to see if his enzymes are down? Did they put him on a milk thissle med? Sorry so many questions...I just hope you don't have to worry about any liver problems as well as the seizures. Granted the two could be related but if not that would be fantastic not to have to worry about liver function.

I'm sorry he had 2 seizures after not having any for a day. That must be so incredibly frustrating not to mention scary.... Poor Smoke!


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## svdreamer

MChis said:


> Well, if his bile acid test came back ok that's fantastic news as far as his liver goes I would think? Is their plan to retest his bloodwork in a couple weeks to see if his enzymes are down? Did they put him on a milk thissle med? Sorry so many questions...I just hope you don't have to worry about any liver problems as well as the seizures. Granted the two could be related but if not that would be fantastic not to have to worry about liver function.
> 
> I'm sorry he had 2 seizures after not having any for a day. That must be so incredibly frustrating not to mention scary.... Poor Smoke!


I would think so, I need to talk to the vet more. I was kinda numb by the time she came out to talk to me after being up two nights already and she was busy and just slipped out to say a few words between patients. Right now he is just on the Phenobarbital and prescription diet and we go back in two weeks to re-do the tests. I so hope the liver test was a fluke and resolves itself. 

I did sign up for two of those Yahoo groups, Brodysmom. The one for liver shunts I passed on. On one, I got sent a lot of info right off and again, it said no animal protein is the best. I will keep him on the Hill's diet until the retesting is done, then discuss with the vet what she thinks is the best diet for him. That group also like the Royal Canin hepatic diet better than Hill's, so I may go that route. Better grains and no corn or wheat. Smoke seems to be doing good on the diet, no reaction to the grains in it, thank goodness. I will be adding egg whites, cottage cheese, plain yogurt and goat cheese to give him liver friendly protein.


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## jessicao32

I sure hope you can find a good food your little guy..


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## Brodysmom

svdreamer said:


> I would think so, I need to talk to the vet more. I was kinda numb by the time she came out to talk to me after being up two nights already and she was busy and just slipped out to say a few words between patients. Right now he is just on the Phenobarbital and prescription diet and we go back in two weeks to re-do the tests. I so hope the liver test was a fluke and resolves itself.
> 
> I did sign up for two of those Yahoo groups, Brodysmom. The one for liver shunts I passed on. On one, I got sent a lot of info right off and again, it said no animal protein is the best. I will keep him on the Hill's diet until the retesting is done, then discuss with the vet what she thinks is the best diet for him. That group also like the Royal Canin hepatic diet better than Hill's, so I may go that route. Better grains and no corn or wheat. Smoke seems to be doing good on the diet, no reaction to the grains in it, thank goodness. I will be adding egg whites, cottage cheese, plain yogurt and goat cheese to give him liver friendly protein.


I am crossing my fingers for him!! Seems like you have done your research and I'm glad that the yahoo groups have been helpful. It's really nice to be able to talk to people who have 'been there, done that'. The Royal Canin sounds like a good choice.

I hope that his liver enzymes have dropped when you take him back! I am sooooooo happy that he doesn't have a shunt!


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## svdreamer

Brodysmom said:


> I am crossing my fingers for him!! Seems like you have done your research and I'm glad that the yahoo groups have been helpful. It's really nice to be able to talk to people who have 'been there, done that'. The Royal Canin sounds like a good choice.
> 
> I hope that his liver enzymes have dropped when you take him back! I am sooooooo happy that he doesn't have a shunt!


Thank you so much Tracy. I am not adverse to raw if it could have helped him. Just isn't right for him right now. I so appreciate your amd everyone's help and support.


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## LDMomma

LDMomma said:


> What about the Honest Kitchen Preference. It's at about 12% in the box and then you can add to it.
> 
> This link has PDF's of the nutritional content information. Understanding Nutrient Profiles | The Honest Kitchen
> for the different formulas. For HK, I'm not sure if the % needs to be when it's dry or as served (hydrated). If it's as served, you could feed Force. I know if you contact them, they will help you out or maybe you could take the PDF's (printed) to your vet.


You know, I was thinking about this and it seems like you would have to compare the as served % to the kibble percentage. The dry % wouldn't really apply because you're not serving it dry, right? So the kibble is 14.5% protein as served. The HK force is 10.69% protein as served. The HK Preference is 6% protein as served so you could add your own proteins as needed.


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## svdreamer

LDMomma, I looked at the ingredients for Preference and is has copper added. With liver disease, copper is bad for the dog. It builds up in a bad liver and can do some real harm. Wish it would work, but it's not a good choice for Smoke.


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## LDMomma

svdreamer said:


> LDMomma, I looked at the ingredients for Preference and is has copper added. With liver disease, copper is bad for the dog. It builds up in a bad liver and can do some real harm. Wish it would work, but it's not a good choice for Smoke.


Oh darn. Well then I hope the RC works well for Smoke.


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## Fizzy Chihuahuas

I had a puppy with a liver shunt I fed him Royal Canin hepatic diet..


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