# Honest Kitchen + raw - portion help?



## yunnielele (Oct 29, 2011)

Hi!

Bella's size: 10/11lbs Chi-mix and she still needs to fully fill in. She's like the size of a toy Rat terrier I guess. Just so you can figure out how big she is. She's usually a monster when standing next to a pure Chi. lol

Anyways, last week I got my trial packs of Honest Kitchen. I've been trying them out on Bella. Now Bella is one of the pickiest eaters ever if she knows it's her dinner (cause it's coming from me so she's always suspicious. lol). Yet, she eats balls of the other dog's hair if someone rolls it out and hands it to her. -_-;

After mixing HK with her kibble and canned food and having mix results, I decided on finally trying raw meat (also I realized HK-Force has banana in it, Bella despises Banana). 
So I switch her to the HK-Love and started putting ground raw chicken breast in it. She just smells all the veggies in it and isnt interested. Then I still have to mix in cooked beef liver or chicken breast dust (I freeze dry them for training treats and sometimes they are chopped so small it comes out as dust). 

`My question is, how much raw (ground) meat should I mix in? On the HK package for Bella's size, it says she should eats 1/2 cup (dry measurement) a day. And Leeburg's site say 1/4 cup to be mixed in.
I'm still iffy on HK. base on their guide, a 10lb box would last Bella 12 weeks. And for $70 - $90 dollars, it's really pricy compared to Blue. Hence why I want to stretch out the meal with raw meat. 

`I was also thinking, would giving her a random chicken wing or some kind of bird for her to chew on for dinner once in a while be okay? I dont know what else is easy to get around here besides chicken wings.

`Also raw eggs? Should I mix it or stand alone? Also, how often?

Also any other recommendation of mix in or stand alone?

I was also wondering about the cost. I know Bella is a small dog so the cost is less, but I still wonder how much it would be per month.






Little history on Bella's picky eating - 
I've been struggling feeding my dog since I first got her earlier this year. I wanted her on good food, so I had her on Blue's Wilderness puppy for a couple months. I had wanted her on a raw diet, I wasnt sure or ready yet to jump in that boat. Also my house mate kept nagging at me saying it wasnt good. I really didnt care about what she thought though. lol
Then I started noticing her stools were getting loose, then runny, then diarrhea. So after talking to my vet and a few dog friends, I switched her to Blue's Longevity because it was much lower protein.
I really hated switching her off Wilderness, because she finally started eating it on her own without canned food being mixed in, and me making a fuss/ begging her to eat.
On Longevity, she hates it. I have to mix it with canned food and finally got her to decently eat it by mixing it with TOTW or Simply Holistic.

Yet, if we leave the other dog's bowl down (he eats Blue's regular Life protection kibble), She's snatch it up as fast as she can and gobble down as much as she can before we reach her, but if I GIVE her his food in his dog dish, she'll turn away from it. She drives me nuts. lol


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

This dog is a picky eater because you have made her that way. Pick a food that you are comfortable feeding. Put the food down for 15 minutes. If she eats, fine. If she doesn't eat, fine. Pick it up and nothing else until time to eat again. Usually 8 hours later. No treats. Nothing at all during this training period. Don't make a big deal about the food. Be matter of fact. Prepare it. Put it down. Wait 15 minutes. Pick it back up. Repeat until she eats. This sounds 'mean' and 'extreme' but it works. She has learned to be picky and that if she doesn't eat - you will doctor it up or switch it around to something else. She has YOU trained.

I don't feed honest kitchen so can't address that food with the raw added to it. I feed prey model raw which is mostly meat, a few organs, a little bit of bone. Not everyone wants to switch to a raw diet, do what you are comfortable with. There are several good pre-mades that are just as easy as kibble. ZiwiPeak is excellent. So is Stella and Chewy's. Primal and Bravo make a good product. 

You can certainly do a chicken wing or neck if you want. Raw eggs are fine for an experienced raw eater, but a raw egg will give most dogs that aren't used to them loose stools. 

I would get Bella eating normally before you start mixing it up though. You can do it. Just be strong. At 11 pounds, she's not going to go hypoglycemic or dry up and blow away. A healthy dog will not starve itself. You just have to be determined and consistent.


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## yunnielele (Oct 29, 2011)

I've always wanted her on something as close to raw or actual raw diet but wasnt ready. That's why she was on BB's wilderness. 

She did well this morning. Ate the mixture of HK - Love and ground chicken pretty fast, but I had to hand feed her to keep her from shaking so hard get her use to eating it. We're only on day 4 of HK mixture.

Well, before I usually leave the bowl down for 20mins then pick it up and wait 10 mins and try again. If it doesnt work then she doesnt get it till dinner.
She was completely good at eating when she was on BB's wilderness kibble and canned food. She even surprised me by just eating the kibble plain. But I had to switch her cause after talking to the vet and a few other small dog owners, the protein was just too high and it cause her to eventually have diarrhea. And I had the vet check to make sure it wasnt something else causing the diarrhea.
That why she finally went on BB's longevity. After a few tries of a bland diet and trying to ease her back into Wilderness per doctor's orders without success.
She wouldnt eat the Longevity/can mixture and actually held off for 3 days. the 3rd morning she actually dove across the kitchen and tried to take the other dog's breakfast, even though I put her mixture of Longevity and canned food down for her first. I finally got her to eat it but she looked like she was dying when eating. So I made her finish the 3 cans we had left before trying TOTW.

Only reason I'm trying HK now and dipping my toes into some raw food, is because her bag of food is about done. And I'm always worried she'll kill herself pooping out these giant logs. lol

She also shakes/ trembles with anxiety when she knows she has it eat her food and it is not something she wants. She shook and gagged once when I had her eat BB's Wilderness Salmon. I thought it was funny actually and made her eat it by day 2 of that can. 

The fussing and complaining was usually after I picked up the bowl and made her walk away. Usually cause I thought it was a waste of food.
I've only had her for 5 months but this was always a problem from before with her previous family. They said they finally gave up and just let her graze feed. She was so thin when I got her.


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## LostLakeLua (Sep 6, 2009)

I just want to throw in that if you're already feeding partial raw; the switch to just raw is very easy. Just add some bone and organ. If you do a search for a thread called "Kahlua's Raw Journey" on Page 5 I have a weekly meal plan that breaks it down very simply how we feed & balance out the raw diet for our dogs; that might help you. 
The cost is what surprised me about THK... We have 5 dogs now and we spend less than that on food for a month for all of them!! For small dogs, I've found raw to be more cost effective than even the 6-Star kibble out there; and much cheaper than premade raws. We really don't even take much time preparing meals any more. Since we just know that we need some meat, bone, liver and kidney we have it all in our freezer. We'll try remembering to cut it up into chunks prior to freezing but that doesn't always happen. We keep our weekly guide magnetted on our fridge door... so we just peek at it, and whatever it specifies for that meal we grab it out of the freezer and dole it out to the dogs. Some people do portion everything up in advance which is fine; but frankly we're lazy people and didn't bother. As long as we've got everything in separate containers (and by that I mean separate packages of meat, bone, liver and kidney) we check the menu and just grab whatever we need for that particular meal.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Perhaps what Bella is trying to tell you is.... 'where's the beef?!' 

The ingredients on THK Love read as follows:
Dehydrated hormone-free beef, sweet potatoes, potatoes, organic flaxseed, organic coconut, parsley, dandelion greens, papaya, cranberries, pumpkin, honey, rosemary, tricalcium phosphate, choline chloride, zinc amino acid chelate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, potassium iodide, potassium chloride, iron amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate.

Just a speculation... but maybe she doesn't like all those dried veggies and fruits in her food? Maybe that's why she is eating it reluctantly, only because you are mixing the GOOD STUFF in with it - the real meat?

For the money you are spending on The honest kitchen - there really are better foods. Ask at the store you got THK from. Perhaps they carry Stella and Chewy's? Primal? Bravo? Even Natures Variety would be better. These pre-made raws are already balanced. They are either freeze dried (and you add water, like you already do with THK) or they are frozen into little nuggets and you just thaw and feed. Very easy. NO guesswork.

I would also still recommend ZiwiPeak if you are wanting something a little more like kibble in a bag. It's an excellent food and high in meat, which is what your dog NEEDS and CRAVES. 

Contrast the ingredients in ZiwiPeak to the THK. The difference is clear .....

Venison - ‘Daily-Dog' Cuisine 
INGREDIENTS: Venison - Meat (min. 65%), Liver, Tripe, Heart and Kidney (min. 19.5%), Chicory Inulin, Green-lipped Mussel (min. 4%), Fish Oil, Lecithin, Kelp, Vitamins and Minerals, Parsley, Naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, additives: Vit. D3 592 IU/kg, Vit. E 7.4mg/kg, Copper (copper proteinate) 9.8mg/kg. Calories 1794 KJ/100g.

See the difference between these foods? Why spend your money on a product that is mostly vegetables and fruits and having to add in meat.... when you could just do a meat based diet instead?


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## yunnielele (Oct 29, 2011)

I thought I should update. 

I'm still mixing HK and meat for Bella. Only different is I've switch to beef and pork instead of chicken. Since we've cut down on agility training and running in the back yard due to her knee, she now gets 1 meal a day in the evenings, so I know she's hungry.

I think Bella cant smell the chicken in the mix so she's hesitant to eat it. Although she eventually will when we close her in the kitchen and leave her there with the food alone.
When I changed it to beef + HK she literally dove at the food dish. The same result with pork also. 

There also has been a lot of good changed too. Bella's ears don't smell as much now like when it did on kibble and aren't dirty with ear wax every couple days. I was able to wait almost a week and a half before I clean her ears (not the ear canal) with a Qtip and it wasn't this wet waxy gross brown stuff. I haven't had to use liquid ear cleanser over 3 weeks now. Her breath doesn't smell as now. 
Also before she would start to smell like 2 weeks after a bath. I haven't given her a bath in almost 4 weeks and she doesnt smell as bad as before. There is slight doggy smell but nothing as bad as before.

Currently I'm stocking up on chicken and Cornish hen and other food for Bella. Can't stock up too much because I dont have much of a freezer. I will probably start her on a raw diet with HK as a supplement in January when the new semester starts for me and I finalize my schedule for the next 4 months.


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