# Question about what to feed a chi?



## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Hello, on another thread I was talking to sombody about the cost of feeding a chi and they gave me info that what I was feeding her was not a very good food which was Pedigree small breed formula. Also I been feeding her beneful prepared meals dog food about 1/3 of a container each night (sometimes mornings but then it's kennel time for a few hours otherwise she runs around to much for her food to digest without her throwing up) She is very healthy however she does hack stuff up from time to time but really nothing comes up or just a small amount of a egg like substance (but that has really for the most part stopped since I been forcing her to stay calm for about 2-4 hours after her meal)

I tried to research more but I'm just so confused! I want to start feeding her a better quality dog food as I myself I have started to improve my diet by transiting to a mostly raw/vegetarian/vegan/frutarian however I was at my local grocrey store stocking up on wet dog food because of the storm that was coming and almost started crying wondering if I'm feeding my little angle poison 

Can anybody help by suggesting a food dog food that is very cheap and can be healthy for her too! I am a struggling college student who is planning on getting a 2nd chi soon so buying in bulk would also help bring the price down provided the dog food was able to be "fresh" still 3-4mo. after purchase.

Also would it be good idea to start feeding her non dog food meals? I know many butchers sell scrap meats that could make a treat for a dog but is it save to feed a chi raw meat? or even cooked meat? (in large quantities) 

Any advice would be helpful! thanks


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Yes, I'm afraid Pedigree and Beneful are two of the worst foods on the market. Grain based, with very little meat, mostly cheap fillers with next to no nutritional value. Check out dogfoodadvisor.com, which rates all brands out of 5 stars, you want to be feeding a 5 star food.
Many of us feed a raw diet, there is a whole section devoted to it in the Feeding and Nutrition forum. It is the most natural way to feed a dog, and the health benefits are enormous. If DIY raw is too daunting, there are pre-made frozen complete raw diets, and even freeze or air dried raw diets that are just as convenient as kibble.
I wouldn't recommend a homemade cooked diet unless you are prepared to be very careful about adding all the necessary supplements, it is very easy to get this type of diet wrong.
I feed raw, and find it very reasonable cost-wise. Chis eat so little, that even the best diets don't work out expensive. TBH almost anything will be an improvement on what she is getting now, and you will see changes, even if it just a reduction in the amount of poo she does.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Agree with Stella. She has given some good advice on raw.

Here are ratings for Pedigree:
Pedigree Dry Dog Food | Review and Rating

Beneful prepared:
Beneful Prepared Meals Dog Food | Review and Rating

Here is ratings information for Fromm, a kibble I feel good about recommending. Grain free so no junk food fillers. No recalls. Small family company. They manage their own production:
Fromm Four Star Nutritionals Grain-Free Dog Food | Review and Rating

The choice will be yours but I'd rather give 1 Chi excellent veterinarian care and outstanding nutrition (both which will aid in a long, healthy companion) than less than optimum care and nutrition for multiple Chis.


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## woodard2009 (Aug 4, 2010)

I feed raw & ZP. I can buy one sirloin steak & it will last about 2 weeks. I buy the large bag of ZP which is costly up front, but the bag lasts me several months. My hubby actually broke the price down one night & said that the cost to feed Midgie was about $2.00 a day for top quality nutrition.


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Ok I know you all not agree with my logic but in order to make Vida a happy dog I feel she needs to have a play friend. I would love to be able to afford a 5 star dog food for 2 chi's but right now I just don't think it's possible 120bucks for a 11 lbs bag :nshocked2:

What do you think about Blue Buffalo Basics dog foods

Blue Buffalo Basics Dry Dog Food | Review and Rating

Ideally Blue Buffalo Basics Small Breed Adult Turkey and Potato (I personally would perfer a turkey meat as I know chicken is so commercialized meat they are not very good IMO)

It is a rating of 3.5 stars and while it is not as cheap as my old dog food of 13 bucks per 15lb bag it's about 35 bucks for a 11 lb bag which I think if I shop around I might get a bit cheaper say 30 bucks a bag and it might be a huge step up for Vida! ...what do you think do you think that is a decent type of food for that pricepoint? all the ingredients seem far better than my Pedigree small breed which was a 1 star.


Also for a wet food for now I think I will keep it the same until I can invest some time to find a bit better alliterative they have some Bule Buffalo Basics can wet food but I really don't know If I want to get it out of a can. 

Also I do have a 15lb pound bag of the 1 star dog food that I think I will be mixing 50/50 until it's gone to help transition her to a new dog food. I'm scared to ask what you all think lol... I think it's a good improvement for now wish I new this sooner before I bought that big bag but I don't want it to go to waste and I don't have the receipt for it but I'll have to double check.

I just think it's kinda frustrating that all the good brands of dog food are not sold at Walmart and other grocery stores! Even a 3.5 star food like Blue Buffalo Basics would have been nice!


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Fromm isn't much more expensive than BB but its better. Look into that. You don't have to spend $120 (I'm assuming you're talking about Ziwipeak) to feed a good quality kibble. 

Good foods cost more money, but they eat way less of it. ANY food sold at Walmart or the grocery store isn't going to be nearly as good as Fromm or Acana. They are both five star foods and cost no where near as much as ZP. 

I feed Fromm. I buy the small bags because the big bags last wayyyy to long (kibble does expire). For one chi, a $14 4 pound bag lasts two months. So with two it would be about $14 a month. Not bad. 

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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

I think Fromm is about $35 for a 12 pound bag and they have 4 grain free choices. When I only had 2 chi's, a 4lb bag would last at least a month and it was only $14 or so. 
I've always bought the smaller bags bc I like to rotate the flavors, maybe someone who feeds Fromm and buys the bigger bags can correct my price if its not exact. 


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

oh ok thanks! I will have to price that brand out I live in a small town now but they do have a nice pet food outlet store 

Chuck & Don's Pet Food Outlet

They carry a lot of different brands and according to online they carry that brand to! Right now according to Petco and Petsmart they do sell a 24lb bag of the Blue Buffalo for about 2.25 per pound (53bucks or so) then I could mix it somthing like 40% 1 star 60% 3.5 star and that would last me through the summer then during the fall I can see if increasing to about 3.50 per lb is ok. 

It may not be the BEST but if you know how cheap of a person I really am you would be shocked I'm spending this much on a dog lol thanks again I'll have to check prices at my locat pet food outlet too but either way Vida is gonna get a much better quality food! and that really puts me in a good mood  Thanks for all the advice again! If I had known that they would eat LESS if given a better quality grade of dog food I would have switched sooner! ...Vida is such a hungry monster for her size lol probly cause of the poor quality dog food... but that's gonna change real soon!

Also do you give your dog a set amount to feed her if your using Fromm? or do you give her free range to eat as much as she wants? Would your dog over eat if you just keep a bowl with "unlimited" dog food out? That's what I do but she usually only eats her food if nothing else is available (which I now know why lol)


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> oh ok thanks! I will have to price that brand out I live in a small town now but they do have a nice pet food outlet store
> 
> Chuck & Don's Pet Food Outlet
> 
> ...


Toby does not free feed. He gets 1/4 cup per meal, a total of 1/2 cup a day. I find it easier to potty train on a schedule and he likes the routine. He eats better too. 

I wouldn't buy huge bags of food, after the bag is opened it has a shelf life. After a couple of months the kibble spoils. I'd let it go 8 weeks at the longest to keep fresh, meaning for our smaller dogs a smaller bag is better. 

I would seriously consider it before you get another dog. They cost double in food, double in medical care, double in everything. Plus a spay and basic shots for a new pup or dog. I am a college student, and I live on a budget, so I understand cheap. I choose to provide the very absolute best for Toby and sacrifice my desire to add a little girl until I am financially stable enough to provide the same quality of care for both. Just something to think about. I've realized that as long as I am around, Toby is not lonely. He needs me, but other dogs are just a bonus. Take her to a small dog park or make friends with dogs, then you can socialize her without paying for a second dog. 


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## Evelyn (Oct 14, 2012)

Ike was on puppy purina dog chow when I got him , from the breeder. I started him on Blue puppy, but I wasn't satisfied with it. So I decided on Fromm poultry and Ziwipeak lamb, I also changed my pug to these, she was on Blue. Both of my dogs are so healthy and their fur shines, my Vet was very pleased with them. They are expensive, but the foods last a long time, that is the advantage of having a small dog, they don't eat as much.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

I don't know where you are, but you mentioned there is a pet outlet with a lot of food choices. Evangers is a great 5star dog food if they have it that is not expensive at all. It is not as expensive as Blue Buffalo and is better. I would not buy any larger than the 4.4lb bag. That should last you a while with one chi. Also, I would not free feed. With a quality high protein food she may put on weight with unlimited access to food. I would recommend two times a day and divide the daily amount by those two feedings.


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

hmm what about storing the opened dog food into a sealed container like zip lock bags? or even using a vacuum sealed bag like the space saver bags to keep it fresh without air inside? Wouldn't that work?

I think I would prefer using a lower grade dog food if that ment I could give them free feeding. For now I think it will be satafortory enough until I can really research it further also when I take Vida to the vet soon I'll ask them what they think too.

As for the costs of having a chi. Well Vida has never had any health issues and never needed to visit the vet so the cost for that is zero though in a week or so that will change a bit lol. Also Vida has not been fixed as I do have a desire to possible let her become a mother herself one day! As I would want to keep a pup from Vida for when she eventually does pass I will have a continuation of her blood  (which wouldn't be for at least another 3-4 years when I graduate from college and have a good home and good paycheck! :coolwink: )For my 2nd chi I also don't think I want her fixed either I have only had bad experiences with animals that have been fixed as they are more scared or angry. Also Vida's mother was super healthy and never had any health issues and she is 4-6 years old. Besides kennel cough they both have been super healthy perhaps my experiences are rare but my mindset is that chi are super healthy animals lol Although when I go to the vet I'll ask them about pet insurance or any packages they offer I think a yearly visit if not twice a year would be a good habit to get into.

As for getting vida social with other dogs lol I don't think that's very likely in my situation I just moved to a very rural town of 20,000 plp or so and I'm not that social myself so that's why I perfer getting Vida a 2nd chi it would be much easier. Not many chi owners live in Northfield Minnesota  And I wouldn't want my baby to play with a midsize dog and a full size dog is out of the question!!!!


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## princess_ella (Jun 4, 2005)

once opened kibble stays fresh the most 3 months thats why the smallest bag is the best?my two girls last a month and a half on the small bag since they only eat 1/4 cup a day.you would have to have 3 or more for a 15 pound bag


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## miuccias (Aug 22, 2012)

princess_ella said:


> once opened kibble stays fresh the most 3 months thats why the smallest bag is the best?my two girls last a month and a half on the small bag since they only eat 1/4 cup a day.you would have to have 3 or more for a 15 pound bag


3 months? oops! The 1st time I bought a big Acana bag and lasted a little bit more that, I had no idea. 😞


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

lancestar2 said:


> I think I would prefer using a lower grade dog food if that ment I could give them free feeding. For now I think it will be satafortory enough until I can really research it further also when I take Vida to the vet soon I'll ask them what they think too.
> 
> As for the costs of having a chi. Well Vida has never had any health issues and never needed to visit the vet so the cost for that is zero though in a week or so that will change a bit lol. Also Vida has not been fixed as I do have a desire to possible let her become a mother herself one day! As I would want to keep a pup from Vida for when she eventually does pass I will have a continuation of her blood  (which wouldn't be for at least another 3-4 years when I graduate from college and have a good home and good paycheck! :coolwink: )For my 2nd chi I also don't think I want her fixed either I have only had bad experiences with animals that have been fixed as they are more scared or angry. Also Vida's mother was super healthy and never had any health issues and she is 4-6 years old. Besides kennel cough they both have been super healthy perhaps my experiences are rare but my mindset is that chi are super healthy animals lol Although when I go to the vet I'll ask them about pet insurance or any packages they offer I think a yearly visit if not twice a year would be a good habit to get into.


What is the point of letting them snack all day on junk food rather than having 2 quality meals? That does not even make sense. 

Likewise, you have an adult dog who has never been to a Vet. Ever. That is *not* responsible pet ownership.

You should really search and read a lot more here. You have a great deal to learn about caring for a Chi.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

I agree with Karen, it sounds like you have a lot of research to do. I feed my chi's twice a day, scheduled feedings. Also, if you had the opportunity to feed quality food over garbage, why would you choose the garbage? I'm confused? 
Also, all dogs should go to the vet for an annual exam, at least to be seen by the vet. The vet will listen to their heart, check their eyes, ears, knees, ect. It really bothers me when people neglect their animals by not going to a vet bc they assume they are "healthy." 

And then you mention breeding her, that is an entirely different can of worms that can be very expensive and dangerous to the mom chi if you have no experience. I don't mean to sound rude, but I really think you need to do a lot more research on dog ownership before getting a second chi. 


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## Rach_Honey (Jan 13, 2012)

^^ Karen said what i was thinking ^^


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

I agree with Karen, Zorana and Rachel. 


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

If you breed your dog you will be responsible for the cost of all vet visits
during her pregnancy, a possible emergency vet visit, exams and vaccines
for the puppies, and food/care for the puppies for 12 weeks. Why would you even consider it if you are already on a budget? I am a student too so I understand not having a lot of money, but I still manage to feed a high quality food. When I had one chihuahua I fed Acana. One $20 bag lasted 2 months for one dog. Wanting to leave the food out to snack on is not a reason to feed a crappy food.. that is a confusing idea.

Also, just because your dog hasn't needed to go to the vet doesn't mean she never will and that she is perfectly healthy. I have two dogs that are fairly healthy, but this summer both had to go to the vet for either emergencies or check ups. I think I spent close to $1000 in the span of a few months on vet bills! You need to be prepared for unexpected things.

Edit to add: After reading your post, it looks like you weren't planning on breeding her for 3-4 years? She will probably be too old to be bred by then... So I would seriously reconsider breeding her.


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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

I totally agree with Missy, you can't wait 3-4 years and then breed from this bitch! Chis are mated young, usually on their second season, third at the latest.
You can use a good brand of kibble and still free feed if you wish, the idea behind free feeding is that the dog self-regulates so it won't eat more just because the food is better quality.


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

WOW... guess people don't fully understand my messages for some reason.

I was saying I would be upgrading to a 3.5 star quality food and you consider that garbage? Additionally I wanted to mix that with my 1 star because I ALREADY BOUGHT IT!!! I don't want to waste it and it would help her transition a bit. maybe I would buy a bit smaller bag than the 24lb mix it 60/40 and toss the rest after 3mo. and during the fall I would be willing to consider another upgrade

and to call me irresponsible pet owner and to refer to my chi as a "bitch!" explanation mark is rather offensive when you consider I am here ASKING QUESTIONS TRYING TO LEARN MORE!! I had though my old roommate had taught me everything I needed to know since he had a chi for a few years.

ALSO like I said I would be WAITING 3-4 years AFTER I FINISH COLLEGE to breed her and that would be ONLY IF AND WHEN I HAD A STABLE HOME THAT COULD SUPPORT 3 CHI! PLUS THE CARE OF BABIES I WOULD CONSIDER IT! (as my roommate just found a stud and never took her to the vet I later learned how risky that was)

I have tons of questions but I have been asking them slowly over the last month I have been a member here I don't want to overwhelm the thread with all my questions that would be selfish of me to do that IMO I been trying to be respectful of the community and be extremely needy and offer advice and my past perspectives though many would consider me an "idiot" I guess on the topic. 

If you wanna nice word advice and give me information I appreciate that I really do. If you wanna still call me irresponsible pet owner by upgrading from a 1 star to a 3.5 star food then maybe I should seek help else ware.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> WOW... guess people don't fully understand my messages for some reason.
> 
> I was saying I would be upgrading to a 3.5 star quality food and you consider that garbage? Additionally I wanted to mix that with my 1 star because I ALREADY BOUGHT IT!!! I don't want to waste it and it would help her transition a bit. maybe I would buy a bit smaller bag than the 24lb mix it 60/40 and toss the rest after 3mo. and during the fall I would be willing to consider another upgrade
> 
> ...


I think you've misunderstood what people are saying. 

1. Mixing a 3.5 star food and a 1 star food so you can free feed isn't a good idea. It's better to free feed just the better quality food. If that's what you can afford right now, then go for it. Although members have suggested other foods that are the same price but 4-5 star quality. Also, don't buy huge bags of kibble. It will go bad and gather bacteria. 

2. A "bitch" is the PROPER TERM for a female dog. The dam of a litter is the bitch. Male dogs are called dogs. 

3. People called you irresponsible because you have a dog that has never been to a vet. You say she's healthy, but you really don't know. She's never seen a vet, gotten bloodwork done, etc. 

4. Are you planning on breeding Vida in 3-4 years or another bitch? If Vida, she will be far too old by then to be bred. Chis are usually bred on their 3rd heat cycle, I believe. Around 2 years if age. I think that is what they are saying. 

5. Members here try to educate. You've brought up any different issues in this thread- types of food, free feeding, breeding, etc. we have tried to answer and respond to each of these topics. Your roommate obviously did not know much about chis, health testing, breeding, etc. I'm sorry, but he just go lucky. Plain and simple. 

I'm sorry if you feel overwhelmed or attacked. We all love chis and want what is best for them. 

One more question: why does Vida need wet food too? Is there a reason you use the Beneful too? Why not get a more expensive kibble and cut that out?

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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

Lol 'bitch' is just a term for a female dog, especially when breeding, no offence intended. The exclamation mark is because it is just plain wrong to breed for the first time from a toy breed bitch who is over 4 years old. Whether you choose to breed or not is not my business, but breeding from a 4 year old Chi is verging on cruel IMO.
Your questions/answers are a little confusing.


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## FantasiaFarm (Feb 12, 2013)

I feed my chis dry food. I am in Australia dm feed a brand called Supercoat. 

Beneful is very bad - there is a video going around facebook atm about it.


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## woodard2009 (Aug 4, 2010)

I know from experience that breeding a chi when you don't know what you're doing is a disaster waiting to happen. I lost my first chi because of my lack of knowledge & I feel guilty every time I look at Midgie now because she's one of the pups.


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## intent2smile (Dec 4, 2011)

When I started improving Jaxx's food and I knew he was going to a better food I never transitioned him. I always just donated what food was left to the local Humane Society it made it so I wasn't feeling bad about wasting it and they are always thankful for extra food. I know that a lot of people say to transition but if I was going from a 1 star food to even a 3 star food I wouldn't transition because I would want to stop giving my dog the poor quality food as fast as possible. Jaxx never had a problem with loose stools or anything when I started him on a new food though. I usually gave a little bit of pumpkin with new food though so if it made loose stools that would counter act it.
Everyone is passionate here about Chihuahuas and wanting what is best for all the little ones here. I totally understand having to watch a budget and we have been looking for a second Chihuahua for a while so that Jaxx can have someone to play with so I understand that too. My requirement for getting a second Chi has been we would not get one until we could feed them 5 star food just like we are feeding Jaxx and I had a savings account with a extra $1000 for unexpected emergencies for vet bills plus the cost for the shots and spay/neuter for the future Chi. 
Dogs can seem healthy every day and then out of the blue start throwing up. They also can get into something even with constant watching that can make them sick. Jaxx has been really healthy but at Christmas time my father in law gave him pepperoni rolls and cinnamon rolls and we ended up with 3 trips to the vet to get his stomach back under control. I was very glad at the time that we had savings in the bank just for emergency vet bills. 
I personally would never breed a dog because I do not know everything about the breed and do not think that any animal should be bred unless you are trying to make the breed better. It is a personal choice though and I would just urge you not to wait until she is 3-4 years old to breed her and to get her tested and examined before doing so.

As for calling a female dog a bitch, when I first joined the forum and saw someone refer to a female dog as a bitch I did a double take. Then I realized that they were just using the term as meaning a female dog. In the dog world using that word is not derogatory. 
I hope that you can reread all the posts in this thread and realize that everyone was just trying to give you sound advice and that they are just caring for your little one and her well being.


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## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

I really have to agree with other's two dogs would be to much. I just had $2000 worth of vet bills for my older dogs this week. These were completely unexpected bills. one of my dogs could face a $6000 surgery.Multiple dogs cost alot money you never know at any moment an emergency can arise. i understand the desire tonhave a firend for your dog but at this time it would be irresponsible. If you cannot provide a quality diet which can be done very reasonably then another dog should be out of the question. A $50 bag of blue would probably last 6 plus moths at least with one dog. Please think of what you would do if you needed emergency care for your dogs how would you provide it?


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Lola's mom 2013 said:


> I really have to agree with other's two dogs would be to much. I just had $2000 worth of vet bills for my older dogs this week. These were completely unexpected bills. one of my dogs could face a $6000 surgery.Multiple dogs cost alot money you never know at any moment an emergency can arise. i understand the desire tonhave a firend for your dog but at this time it would be irresponsible. If you cannot provide a quality diet which can be done very reasonably then another dog should be out of the question. A $50 bag of blue would probably last 6 plus moths at least with one dog. Please think of what you would do if you needed emergency care for your dogs how would you provide it?


what issues happened that resulted in 2,000 for vet fee's? What health problems are considered high risk that would result in such medial care need?

I could manage bills up to 1,000 but what surgery would cost 6,000 dollars? I understand some people make hundreds of thousands dollars a year or have saved a lot of money but I don't see how most people could justify spending 6k for a surgery for a pet. Also the pet food that I saw was a 3.5 star and the ingredients were very good I don't see why the Blue Buffalo Basic product is not a good enough feed for my chi the products seem very good. 

I don't mean to offend anyone but I kinda feel that some of this advice may be from the extreme people who treat chi like children spending thousands. I am trying to determine what is the AVERAGE household care and quality and the happiness and lifestyle of the pet and owner. I guess I might have to research that on my own.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> what issues happened that resulted in 2,000 for vet fee's? What health problems are considered high risk that would result in such medial care need?
> 
> I could manage bills up to 1,000 but what surgery would cost 6,000 dollars? I understand some people make hundreds of thousands dollars a year or have saved a lot of money but I don't see how most people could justify spending 6k for a surgery for a pet. Also the pet food that I saw was a 3.5 star and the ingredients were very good I don't see why the Blue Buffalo Basic product is not a good enough feed for my chi the products seem very good.
> 
> I don't mean to offend anyone but I kinda feel that some of this advice may be from the extreme people who treat chi like children spending thousands. I am trying to determine what is the AVERAGE household care and quality and the happiness and lifestyle of the pet and owner. I guess I might have to research that on my own.


I am an average chi owner. I am a full time student, no income. I live off student loans. My advice still stands. If Vida eats something she shouldn't, or jumps the wrong way and hurts herself, there could be thousands of dollars in X-rays, vet visits, and meds. More than just illness happens. What if she develops a luxating patella or two? That's thousands of dollars. Lots of things can occur all the time. My moms dog is healthy, but when she injured her leg, the X-rays, exam, meds, etc. in all cost my mom almost $1000. That was a one time injury. Now she is on $50 a month worth of medication. Things happen to dogs, just like people. 

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## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

lancestar2 said:


> what issues happened that resulted in 2,000 for vet fee's? What health problems are considered high risk that would result in such medial care need?
> 
> I could manage bills up to 1,000 but what surgery would cost 6,000 dollars? I understand some people make hundreds of thousands dollars a year or have saved a lot of money but I don't see how most people could justify spending 6k for a surgery for a pet. Also the pet food that I saw was a 3.5 star and the ingredients were very good I don't see why the Blue Buffalo Basic product is not a good enough feed for my chi the products seem very good.
> 
> I don't mean to offend anyone but I kinda feel that some of this advice may be from the extreme people who treat chi like children spending thousands. I am trying to determine what is the AVERAGE household care and quality and the happiness and lifestyle of the pet and owner. I guess I might have to research that on my own.


$1200 dental work $800 for treatments to keep my dog from going down if she goes down the surgery is $6000 . Now this is for doxies. Chis can also rack up expenses removing tumors dental issues eye issues. Vet bills can quickly become huge. Spaying a female here is close to $500. $1000 will get sucked up quickly. You cannot count on your dog being average that is incredibly irresponsible. I am one of those people who treat their dogs like I do my children I would not have it any other way. My dogs are my family and their loss would be unbearable for me. Most people I know consider their dogs family. I read your posts about not being able to afford decent food you should worry about that first dog save your money you would spend on a puppy and save for vet bills. Hundreds of thousands of dollars I wish. I put things like tax returns aside so if something happens I am prepared.


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## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

I am not really up to date on kibble but I thought blue wilderness was a good kibble.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> I don't mean to offend anyone but I kinda feel that some of this advice may be from the extreme people who treat chi like children spending thousands. I am trying to determine what is the AVERAGE household care and quality and the happiness and lifestyle of the pet and owner. I guess I might have to research that on my own.


No, the advice is coming from people who are very well aware that their chis are dogs, not children, but they hold themselves to a certain expectation of care for their DOG. You will not be able to determine on this site what the AVERAGE household care and quality would be for Vida because that average person would not be on this site. They would be feeding whatever they picked up from the grocery store or pet chain, doing for their pet what they feel is best as far as vet care--usually pretty much what the vet tells them if they even go, but they would not be seeking out the absolute very best for their dog from like-minded people and taking the best advice given and putting it into practice for the benefit of their dog.


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## TinyTails (Jun 24, 2011)

Vet emergencies come up even your your pets are healthy. For example, this past October my chi Deuce ate a Claritin d accidentally. I did not know the d part meant it was toxic to dogs so I thought he would be fine, as he takes Claritin and benedryl sometimes for allergies. A few hours later I was at the emergency room with deuce in the ICU. He was there for 3 days and I had a 3 thousand dollar vet bill. I didn't care how much it cost bc I would have spent any amount of money to help him, just like I would with any of my pets. I don't make hundreds of thousands of dollars, I work for a non profit rescue. Pets can be healthy one day and sick the next. As they get older more issues pop up and you need to be prepared for that. My moms 9 year old dog recently had to have a 6 thousand dollar surgery, yeah it put her in debt and so many people told us why would you spend that much money for an old dog to have surgery.....but we are responsible pet owners and when you choose to get a dog you are responsible for its care and well being. I get daily calls at work for people looking to surrender their dog or cat bc all of a sudden something came up that costs a lot of money in vet care and they cannot afford it  sorry for the long post, this is a sensitive subject for me. Luckily all of my pets now have health insurance and deuces vet bill was mostly covered. I wish I got it sooner lol


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## TinyTails (Jun 24, 2011)

Another example, my perfectly healthy kitten Luigi all of a suddent started having trouble with her legs. She was diagnosed a high level Luxating patella in her left knee and a moderate one in her other. We did surgery on the left knee which cost 2k, and now her other knee needs to be done. This isn't covered by insurance since I didn't have it at the time of the first surgery


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

thanks again for all the information and responses sounds like pet insurance might be a good option. Although I don't even have health insurance myself lol. What type of pet insurance do you have and through what company? I think it might be something worth looking into to get limited insurance say 10-20 dollars a month. Do you know of anything that might be an option? Also I live in Minnesota so idk if that makes a difference.


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Also about what age do you start seeing more health issues? Being that Vida is just about to turn 2 do you think around 4 or 5 she would more likely start having health issues? If I could hold of on getting pet insurance for say another year or two then for the 2nd chi I could get insurance when she turns 3 as well I think that would be realistic. Like I said I do have some funds from FA to help cover anything that my be an emergency. What do you think? I have about another 2-3 years left in college so then I should be able to afford full insurance on two chi.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> Also about what age do you start seeing more health issues? Being that Vida is just about to turn 2 do you think around 4 or 5 she would more likely start having health issues? If I could hold of on getting pet insurance for say another year or two then for the 2nd chi I could get insurance when she turns 3 as well I think that would be realistic. Like I said I do have some funds from FA to help cover anything that my be an emergency. What do you think? I have about another 2-3 years left in college so then I should be able to afford full insurance on two chi.


The later you get insurance, the more expensive it is. Additionally, anything that occurs prior to when you purchase the insurance becomes a pre-existing condition and isn't covered. I also doubt you will be able to find insurance for $10, I pay about $45 per month for one dog on Pet Plan. The cheapest I've found it is around $30. 

Medical issues can occur at any time at any age. It really is not predictable.


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## TinyTails (Jun 24, 2011)

I use healthy paws and they cover everything except pre existing conditions, vaccines and the actual exam fee. I pay close to 50 per month per dog as my dogs are already 6 and 7. Limited insurance is not worth it, once there's restrictions they can start ruling all kinds of things as not covered


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

If you don't want pet insurance, putting away a little money every month is a good idea. 

I read a comment about not being able to free feed on a high protein kibble and I just wanted to say that it really depends on the dog. We feed a higher protein kibble and ziwipeak and we do a version of free feeding and our chi self regulates. I'm sure this wouldn't work for some dogs, but it doesn't mean it's impossible. 


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## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

pupluv168 said:


> The later you get insurance, the more expensive it is. Additionally, anything that occurs prior to when you purchase the insurance becomes a pre-existing condition and isn't covered. I also doubt you will be able to find insurance for $10, I pay about $45 per month for one dog on Pet Plan. The cheapest I've found it is around $30.
> 
> Medical issues can occur at any time at any age. It really is not predictable.





TinyTails said:


> I use healthy paws and they cover everything except pre existing conditions, vaccines and the actual exam fee. I pay close to 50 per month per dog as my dogs are already 6 and 7. Limited insurance is not worth it, once there's restrictions they can start ruling all kinds of things as not covered


WOW! I guess vegas is cheap! I have petplan and I pay 18 a month for Copley (he is a mixed breed small by their standards), and 22 a month each for Nova and Kerrigan- the chihuahuas. I actually pay yearly so I get a discount for that (in the end it is more like 15 and 18 a month I pay after the discount) but I don't know if I would do it for $50! I have the gold plan $20,000 a year plan, with 90% reimbursement and a $200 deductible. I know it varies a lot based on where you live but WOW, that is a big difference.

I have claimed on petplan a few times and it has always been easy, I got checks quickly and the claims process wasn't a problem. For Copley I have actually got more money back from them than I have paid to date! My neighbor has VPI and they have had nothing but problems, after 5 incidents that didn't pay (they told them that a knee issue caused by a dog attach was congenital because it was a small dog) they gave up and got petplan.


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

doginthedesert said:


> WOW! I guess vegas is cheap! I have petplan and I pay 18 a month for Copley (he is a mixed breed small by their standards), and 22 a month each for Nova and Kerrigan- the chihuahuas. I actually pay yearly so I get a discount for that (in the end it is more like 15 and 18 a month I pay after the discount) but I don't know if I would do it for $50! I have the gold plan $20,000 a year plan, with 90% reimbursement and a $200 deductible. I know it varies a lot based on where you live but WOW, that is a big difference.
> 
> I have claimed on petplan a few times and it has always been easy, I got checks quickly and the claims process wasn't a problem. For Copley I have actually got more money back from them than I have paid to date! My neighbor has VPI and they have had nothing but problems, after 5 incidents that didn't pay (they told them that a knee issue caused by a dog attach was congenital because it was a small dog) they gave up and got petplan.


I would definitely get insurance for Odie if it was that good for that cheap! You're really lucky. We don't have anything like that here. 


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## TinyTails (Jun 24, 2011)

Wow that's crazy,pet plan gold with a 100 deductible and 80 percent coverage would be 65 per dog! That's why I picked healthy paws lol, I did 100 yearly deductible (I liked how it was not per incident), 90 percent coverage with no maximum limit other than the exam fee or anything other than the pre existing, they still cover some pre existing as long as a vet says is a resolved issue like uti, etc. and they covered holistic treatments and vets which I use


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## intent2smile (Dec 4, 2011)

You also have to consider that many pet insurance require that you pay the bill for the vet and then file a claim to be reimbursed. 
I definitely  would not wait until a dog was 3-4 to get pet insurance just because by that age they can say many things are pre-existing.
When you consider chihuahua can live to be 20 or more years anything that you can do early on to make the later years better is worth it. That includes high quality food, dental care, annual vet visits, and socialization



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## ShannonL (Feb 8, 2013)

Hi guys, just sat down & read this entire thread.. And wow.
Having animals is a great responsibility and it shouldn't be taken lightly.
I got a dog from the Humane's Society when I was 19-20 years old (now I'm 30 something...) with my boyfriend (now husband) when we first moved in together. We both grew up with dogs & thought we could handle it. We ended up with a 6 month old yellow lab mix we named Sunshine. With in a month, we got notice from our apt complex of both complaints of her barking when we weren't home & their regulations on large dogs changing. We already put down a pet deposit, but now they wanted an additional $25 a month in rent for dogs over 25lbs. We both worked & went to school full time then too. One day we came home to a terrible mess... she had eaten a hole in our cheap donated couch. Her stomach & internal organs could not digest the foam she had swallowed & we ended up in the emergency vet looking at a $1500 bill. With our tails between our legs, we called our parents & asked for the $$. In the end, we had to return her to the Humane's Society. It was a few years later when we adopted our next pet & that was after careful consideration! 
I'm sorry for the long story, but a pet is a living & breathing being and if you are not ready to or able to put in the time or have the resources to take proper care of them, then don't commit to getting one.
I'm not saying you're not a committed mommy, but I'd make sure you can fully invest in 1 before committing to a second. 
Please think it through with your head, not your heart💝



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## ShannonL (Feb 8, 2013)

Good luck 😊


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

um I have already been a pet owner of a chi for about 2 years now... but I guess everybody here just gonna think I'm a irresponsible uncommitted pet owner until I conform to your high standards. I take personal offensive because I do so much to make my home a wonderful home for my little Vida and suggestions like this frustrate me because I know she has a wonderful home and a committed and responsible enough owner to keep enduring negative comments to try to improve her quality of living a bit more. 

Blue Buffalo Basics Dry Dog Food | Review and Rating


If you don't mind please explain to me what is so awful about this dog food???


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## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

lancestar2 said:


> thanks again for all the information and responses sounds like pet insurance might be a good option. Although I don't even have health insurance myself lol. What type of pet insurance do you have and through what company? I think it might be something worth looking into to get limited insurance say 10-20 dollars a month. Do you know of anything that might be an option? Also I live in Minnesota so idk if that makes a difference.


I went with trupanion my vet recommended it. It does not cover the little things like vaccinations but it covers the major things. It includes congenitally issues. I pay $49 a month but I have no deductible you could go with a deductible and it can be a lot less. Once you have a vet visit the vet gives you a bill of health call them. It takes a week to cover accidents like poisoning or swallowing something and 30 days for major things like cancer. With this insurance there is not limit to what they will pay out every year. Start with a higher deductible odds of something serious like cancer are less with a puppy problem is you have to come up with the money up front but you get reimbursed in 5 days.


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## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

lancestar2 said:


> um I have already been a pet owner of a chi for about 2 years now... but I guess everybody here just gonna think I'm a irresponsible uncommitted pet owner until I conform to your high standards. I take personal offensive because I do so much to make my home a wonderful home for my little Vida and suggestions like this frustrate me because I know she has a wonderful home and a committed and responsible enough owner to keep enduring negative comments to try to improve her quality of living a bit more.
> 
> Blue Buffalo Basics Dry Dog Food | Review and Rating
> 
> ...


I feed raw so I am no expert on kibble but I did not know there was anything wrong with blue buffalo. I would go with the grain free they are in shiny bags with a wolf on the cover. I am telling you a $27 bag would last forever months I bet with a chi.
I don't think you are irresponsible just stick to one for now. Do the best you can for that one. You know more about dogs than I did I had a chi and did not do the research you are doing. Soon you will graduate then get a second job. You are right $6000 is a lot normally I would not have that I happened to be doing work on the house so I would use that money.


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## ShannonL (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm so sorry you took it in a manor of me judging you, it was not geared towards that. I was just trying to explain an experience I had with my first pet. I see that you are a loving and caring mom; otherwise you 1- wouldn't be on this forum in the first place & 2- ask such great questions. I think that as long as you're prepared for the unknown like you said you were then ok. 
As far as food is concerned, I feed my dogs a 4 star food & they love it. I also feed them only twice a day because I have 2 dogs, one always out eats the other & he winds up w/ nothing. 
As far as transitioning, my vet said you can do it 2 ways: 1- mix 1/4 of new w/ 3/4 of old for 2 days, then 1/2 & 1/2 for 2 days, then 3/4 of new & 1/4 of old for 2 days. Or add a scoop of canned pumpkin to each feeding for a week to insure no loose stools for upset tummies. Then donate the rest to either your vet's office or the Humane's Society. I too had bought a new bag right before my vet said to make the change, so it did hurt the picket book that month, but I saw it as helping my dog and other dogs who were in need. 
Good luck & don't give up!


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## TinyTails (Jun 24, 2011)

When it comes to the food I really don't think you HAVE to feed a 5 star food. Each dog does different on a food, and if your pup does not have any special needs it will do perfectly fine a 4 star food. I think Blue Buffalo is overpriced and you could find a better or equal food that costs less than that. Here's some affordable good quality foods that I have used in the past and my dogs have done great on them. Lots of times it's also cheaper to order online - I get all my pet food online.

1. Nutrisource Grain Free (they have chicken, lamb, bison and a fish one) costs between $13-15 for 5lbs and $25-27 for the 15 lb bag. It's a small company that has never had a recall - I feed this to all my fosters and do do great. It's calorie dense so you feed less
2. Earthborn Grain Free (they have lots of formulas) also around $15 for 5lbs
3. Acana grain free is $15-17 per 5lbs, it's calorie dense so you end up feeding less
4. Taste of the Wild grain free(I would go with the high praire or wetlands) $11-13 for the 5 lb bag

If your dog doesn't have an issue with grains - some dogs do better on a food with some grain in it, there's even more options
1. Fromm Adult Gold - (my dog is eating this currently and it was $12 for 5lbs
2. Nutrisource chicken and rice is $13 for a 6.6lb bag
3. Canine Caviar chicken and millet/lamb and millet (this is a really good food with LID, millet being the only grain) is $13 for 4.4lbs they also have grain free foods that are a little more

If you are really on a budget you can always go for 4Health, Chicken Soup for Pet lovers soul or Merrick Whole Earth Farms. My dogs have never done well on the "best" foods like Ziwipeak, Orijen, Acana and Fromm grain free, so you just have to see what works best for her.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

I agree with Anna above. That was my point in one of my first post when I told you about Evangers. If you can get it, it is a 5star food for much less price than the Blue Buffalo which is 3.5star, and you seemed to be concerned about money. I was trying to help you find one of the best for the least price. Evangers is also a family owned company since 1935 (I think I'm right on the date) which sometimes makes a big difference in quality of processing. They have not had any food recalls that I know of. There are some other great 4 and 5 star foods out there, but they are manufactured by a company that has experienced serveral recalls over the years. That doesn't mean they are not great foods or that many people do not use them just fine I am just informing you of all the facts as best I know them. Blue Buffalo is a great food, but there are others out there equally as good or better that are cheaper is all people are trying to tell you. I have been feeding Lulu Ziwi Peak for several months. It is a GREAT 5 star food BUT I have recently come to the conclusion (with several hundred $$ in vet bills if you go to my other two threads) that Lulu cannot tolerate the high protein, 5 star food. I have also learned on dogfoodadvisor.com that the rating is protein specific. Therefore, if a food is an excellent protein source, but the protein level is not high enough the rating will not be 5 star.


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## TinyTails (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm not sure how I feel about Evangers. They have had a lot of issues with the FDA and have been accused of mislabeling their foods. They also had a "silent" recall after metal pet tags were found in the canned foods. The mislabeling is what makes me nervous - what are they putting in their foods that they are not listing?

Evangers Vs FDA - Premium Dog Food Company in Hot Water with FDA

Evangers Pet Food Troubles

I totally agree with you about Dog Food Advisor rating food based on protein only. Protein is important but not the most important factor. A lot of grain free foods have boosted protein levels from things like peas etc.


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## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

TinyTails said:


> I'm not sure how I feel about Evangers. They have had a lot of issues with the FDA and have been accused of mislabeling their foods. They also had a "silent" recall after metal pet tags were found in the canned foods. The mislabeling is what makes me nervous - what are they putting in their foods that they are not listing?
> 
> Evangers Vs FDA - Premium Dog Food Company in Hot Water with FDA
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this info!!! I called myself researching, but missed this! I actually had only even paid attention to Evangers with Lulu's recent illness, so my research wasn't very deep--shouldn't have been recommending it.  It is very hard to find a dog food that is not high in protein but the proteins it has are high quality and are certain proteins that are not high in purines for her liver issues are also do not include chicken or venison which she is allergic to. UGH!


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## Tink (Oct 14, 2009)

If you're going to come to a forum geared specifically and only to Chihuahuas, expect to find passionate people, committed to the breed and devoted to the health and responsible ownership of the dog. 

You can take offense at what the folks here tell you and discount or argue it, or you can take it into consideration and learn from it. If you're getting heated responses, you might want to take a look at the way you present your information that could leave it open to misinterpretation instead of deciding we're a bunch of crazies who are out to get you.

I won't speak for anyone else, but personally I'm far more concerned about the dogs who are owned by the folks here, than I am about the folks themselves, even though I have many friends here. While I try not to offend anyone, I WILL speak frankly when it looks like an owner is making an irresponsible, ill-informed or detrimental decision regarding their dog. Their animal's well-being comes before anything else as far as I'm concerned.

I haven't read this thread in great detail. But it seems that you are taking offense at the well intended advice given to you, and instead of taking it into consideration are justifying and rationalizing the decisions you've made about your current dog and a possible future one, and blaming us for misunderstanding you or even worse, for disagreeing with your point of view, and maintaining your rightness in the face of two full pages worth of reasoned discussion about your choices. 

If you honestly care for the health and wellbeing of your dog, if that's more important to you than being right or being validated, then please just listen and actually HEAR what we're saying to you. No one is out to get you. We are all VITALLY interested in your dog's care, and if that means offending you from time to time, then so be it. 

Surely you will agree that your dog is worth it?


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## Rubyannie (Jan 24, 2013)

I agree with all of the above. No true dog lover will tell you what you want to hear, unless they mean what they say. If you ask for advice, you will get an honest opinion and that is what you should be hoping for, in the best interests of your dog. Whether you take that advice, and act on it, is entirely up to you. xx


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## Tink (Oct 14, 2009)

> I have also learned on dogfoodadvisor.com that the rating is protein specific. Therefore, if a food is an excellent protein source, but the protein level is not high enough the rating will not be 5 star.


This is true. 

On the other hand, for folks who are still novices when it comes to dog food choices, the site is a good starting point and gives a much better frame of reference than merely listening to one's Vet or reading dog food labels at your local pet store. Choosing a 5 star food from the the list on the site is going to be more beneficial to your dog than being swayed by your Vet's well intended but sometimes ill-informed advice to choose X food based on what he's been told by the Rep for that company.


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

OK ... Just wanted to give a update I went to the store and picked up FROMM Chicken 5lb bag I was kinda really out of place I didn't even notice I got the one with the grain until I already purchased it  oh well I think it will be a good transition then next time I will probly get the 4lb bag which dosen't have the grain like barley in them (which is bad right?) 

I gave 1/2 cup to vida tonight (as it says to feed about 1 cup a day I think) and she ate it all up and was wanting more!  I still left out the Pedigree but she only ate like 2 bits of that lol... I think I'll leave out the Pedigree for about a week or so and then just toss it as the bag is pretty much about empty. Also I will donate the other bag to the shelter when I have time I guess. 

I really do appreciate all the help and suggestions and opinions if it wasn't for all of you I don't think Vida would have ever switched to FROMM brand I think it's kinda scary switching over to a brand you hardly know lol but Vida seems to enjoy it!

I still don't like the idea of not being able to let her free feed I think mostly because I live alone and I worry that say I happen to go in the ditch or get snowed out from home or somthing my little baby would starve for a while....

Do you have any suggestions that can help ease my nerves? Is their such a thing as a dog food timer dispenser and anybody know about them?


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> OK ... Just wanted to give a update I went to the store and picked up FROMM Chicken 5lb bag I was kinda really out of place I didn't even notice I got the one with the grain until I already purchased it  oh well I think it will be a good transition then next time I will probly get the 4lb bag which dosen't have the grain like barley in them (which is bad right?)
> 
> I gave 1/2 cup to vida tonight (as it says to feed about 1 cup a day I think) and she ate it all up and was wanting more!  I still left out the Pedigree but she only ate like 2 bits of that lol... I think I'll leave out the Pedigree for about a week or so and then just toss it as the bag is pretty much about empty. Also I will donate the other bag to the shelter when I have time I guess.
> 
> ...


If you want to free feed, free feed the Fromm. Just because you feed Fromm doesn't mean you can't leave 1 cup of food down per day and let her eat it as she pleases. 

Toby eats Fromm game bird recipe (it's one of the grain free ones). He's five pounds and eats 1/4 cup in the am and 1/4 cup in the pm. 


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## intent2smile (Dec 4, 2011)

Great choice!

I would goto http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-feeding-tips/dog-food-calculator/ and input the kcals from the Fromms bag, activity level of Vida, and her ideal weight.
I have found it gives a better idea of daily food amounts than the bag of food itself.
1 cup of food from a good brand sounds like a lot so I would double check with the above site.
Good luck!


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## Moonfall (Nov 16, 2012)

Tink said:


> This is true.
> 
> On the other hand, for folks who are still novices when it comes to dog food choices, the site is a good starting point and gives a much better frame of reference than merely listening to one's Vet or reading dog food labels at your local pet store. Choosing a 5 star food from the the list on the site is going to be more beneficial to your dog than being swayed by your Vet's well intended but sometimes ill-informed advice to choose X food based on what he's been told by the Rep for that company.


I'm lucky in that I have never been told by my vet that raw or any of the other more natural food choices or high quality kibbles are bad. My decision to switch the ferrets to raw was met with support and well wishes, though they do sell Science Diet, at least they are good about my decision to feed what I do and why I do so. Always eager to learn also, I have kept starlings for quite a while though I don't have any now, and once I took one in and they were so curious, and just loved her!

As for the things mentioned in the thread.

Breeding- if you can't afford a 5 star food and thousands in vet bills, shots, and puppy food please do not breed. Also, health testing, cesareans. A bitch that age shouldn't be bred from, and you also should consider that she could die in labor.

Food- I personally feed TOTW. I have fed other foods in the past. My chi is very healthy, though he does have a skin condition, it isn't related to his diet we don't think. His coat is shiny and he has excellent muscle tone though. Please do not get another dog if you cannot afford a great food for both of them, plus vet care and such.

Vet stuff- I am of the opinion that many dogs do not need to go to the vet too often. I can do most external check ups on my own. Eyes, ears, teeth, knees, etc. Any sign, even very small, that something might be up, they do need to go in right away though. For example my boy was skipping when he was trotting and also has flaky skin. Vet says legs are very solid, nothing wrong anywhere, and has given some supplement ideas for skin (Vitamin E, etc). Although there was nothing serious wrong with him, had he had ringworm or something, the damage from waiting could have been serious. We went in right away once I noticed the skin worsening.

This also means you must read up on these things and learn as much as possible about chis and illnesses, and how to do a health check.

On the averageness of owners- I just turned 18 last month and live with my father. I am not rich and was forced to quit my job recently. I have a ton of animals but still manage to provide good things for them all. I put them above myself. I am definitely average. I can't afford a buddy belt right now or ziwipeak, no matter how bad I want to, but Douglas still gets lots of very nice things. I am fond of sales (just got him a nice harness this way) and have found TOTW to be very cost effective, though with such a small dog most foods will be fairly cheap to feed.

Anyway. I am glad to hear you've got a good food for your little one!


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## woodard2009 (Aug 4, 2010)

It's never too late! Way to go on doing what's better for your baby. What people don't know is that given the choice of foods, animals will ALWAYS choose the better, healthy food for themselves. They have a natural instinct to be able to do this. They somehow know what foods are good for them. It's not going to hurt to leave food down for your chi should you be late getting home. If you're worry about overfeeding, just adjust the amount you give when you get home to what was eaten. If your chi doesn't want to eat the Pedigree, then I would not make him eat it. Since there's just a little left, throw it out. It is not a good food.


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## Tink (Oct 14, 2009)

lancestar2 said:


> I still don't like the idea of not being able to let her free feed I think mostly because I live alone and I worry that say I happen to go in the ditch or get snowed out from home or somthing my little baby would starve for a while....


There's no guarantee that if you free feed, she's going space out her nibbles such that she eats a little bit a few times a day. IOW, she could gobble up all the food in the first hour of you leaving, then still be without food all day if you're late getting home for some reason. 

My chihuahuas eat approximately every 12 hours, once in the morning and once in the evening. They've gone longer than that with no problem. Some chihuahuas are fed once a day only, so they go a full 24 hours with no food. Chihuahua puppies can have severe problems going without food for any length of time but adults don't have that issue. They're able to tolerate going for long periods without eating. So as long as your dog has water available to him throughout the day, I wouldn't worry about the length of time between meals.


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Moonfall said:


> I'm lucky in that I have never been told by my vet that raw or any of the other more natural food choices or high quality kibbles are bad. My decision to switch the ferrets to raw was met with support and well wishes, though they do sell Science Diet, at least they are good about my decision to feed what I do and why I do so. Always eager to learn also, I have kept starlings for quite a while though I don't have any now, and once I took one in and they were so curious, and just loved her!
> 
> As for the things mentioned in the thread.
> 
> ...


thanks, I will have to start learning more about basic care and things to watch out for! I think If I spend 15-30min a day 5 times a week that would really help improve my education. 

Right now I feed Vida her breakfast 1/2 cup and she didn't eat it all I will be home most of the week so I will be watching her eating habits I think he gained just a tad bit of weight which is a good thing because I think she is a bit under weight. Also I forgot to explain that I started feeding her wet food because she was underweight and being that I live in Minnesota and sometimes the apartment gets kinda cold I wanted her to be a healthy weight and a tab "plump" for winter. 

Of course I think maybe her old food was so unpleasant that she just didn't want to eat it. I have also noticed her behavior on the next morning after her 1st feeding she was just so happy and licky for no reason lol. I think I still want to feed her wet food from Nov. to March at night just to give her a extra treat for the cold months when she can't go outside much. Although mixing 1/3 Fromm dry food into the bottom would be a great way to dulitue the low star wet food. I got about 8-10 tubs of the beneful prepared meals once they are gone I will experiment with the ones at the pet food store. They had a few options that came in a plastic tub. I could never feed my dog wet food from a can regardless of how many stars it was. 

I also got bully stick for 6 bucks ill have to see how long that lasts (although I will have to put it away for when I'm not home. I just don't think I'd want her chewing on it when I'm not here to make sure she is OK) I also got a bag of Fromm brand treats they were a bit big but she really liked them! I would love to be able to make my own beef jerky for my chi but idk I think I might worry if I made it safely or not... lol I will be keeping an eye out for a bit more affordable treats I do like to give her a lot of treats sometimes for no real reason lol

As for getting a 2nd chi I have several sites I am watching from a puppy mill and a few breeders, (I no longer watch the shelter page they never respond they needed a home for an adorable 2yr old black chi ASAP even if I was just a foster I would have liked to start communication but guess they are to busy ) and if that adorable pup comes along and Vida is ready with a clean bill of health from the vet I just might go for it...

This week I will be making an appointment for next week ideally for the vet that way I will feel better about taking her in with some good food in her system! Instead of 1 star food that I guess has been spoiled as I think it was pretty old. If I did get a 2nd chi I wouldn't change much I just might stick with the 4 star Fromm with the oats and barley and make my homemade wet food mix instead of buying it. 

Although Vida still does potty on the carpet a bit but she has gotten much better I say 90% pad 10% accidents if not fewer accidents. I think I been noticing she is more fussy and will start pottying on the carpet when she thinks her potty area is "full" lol 

Does anybody else feed your dog a 1-2 times a day wet food as well? I used to feed her morning and night on and off but now I mostly do it at night but I didn't feed her it since she got her new food.


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## woodard2009 (Aug 4, 2010)

I used to feed THK (The Honest Kitchen) with is a dehydrated food that you add water to hydrate. I had to stop feeding, but I have learned that wet food sticks to the teeth more than dry food. Be careful with your babies teeth to keep them clean. Plaque can build up really quick with wet food. I feed twice a day with healthy snacks in between.


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## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

I would be careful about adding extra weight for warmth in the winter. Extra weight on a chi is not good luxated patella is an issue. Pick up a sweater Lola wears them in the winter. I would not feed that wet food feeding a low grade food is not healthy and will end up causing issues down the toad. I am confused did you say you were going to buy a puppy from a puppy Mill ?puppy mills are horrible places that mass produce puppies. The parents are kept in deplorable conditions.if you care at all about dogs you would never even consider purchasing a dog from a puppy mill. They are disgusting places that should be shut down. I think you have your mind made up about a second puppy just be careful where you get the puppy from.


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## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

ASPCA | Puppy Mills

Please read this.


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Lola's mom 2013 said:


> ASPCA | Puppy Mills
> 
> Please read this.


well all dogs need a good home Vida's mom was a puppy mill dog and I think it be kinda cute if I got Vida's future sister from the same pet shop. I also am watching a breeder who has some good reviews online and has alot of puppies right now no chi's so like I said I'm watching several sites.

Ethics behind puppy mills and breeders who sell puppies for 500-800 bucks are probably the same. Of all the adopted cat I had in the past they were all fixed and had some really mental issues. All my friends used to say my cats were pysco-kitties. Plus I'm pretty sure they lied to me about the age of the cats too. My personal experiences are of course not typical but just about a week ago I spend an hour filling out an adoption form and not so much as a single contact! ugh! ...I know if I were to write a email to my local pet shop they would probly have sent back at least 3 emails within the same time frame.

Pet shop dogs need love too and a good home plus if you can find a pet shop that give a wonderful level of service and amount of care to their pets then why not? Many shelter dogs come from bad situations too such as animal hoarders or owners who neglect them I'm really not sure what you are trying to say by showing this video on the site you listed...


Puppies Are Not Toys - YouTube


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> well all dogs need a good home Vida's mom was a puppy mill dog and I think it be kinda cute if I got Vida's future sister from the same pet shop. I also am watching a breeder who has some good reviews online and has alot of puppies right now no chi's so like I said I'm watching several sites.
> 
> Ethics behind puppy mills and breeders who sell puppies for 500-800 bucks are probably the same. Of all the adopted cat I had in the past they were all fixed and had some really mental issues. All my friends used to say my cats were pysco-kitties. Plus I'm pretty sure they lied to me about the age of the cats too. My personal experiences are of course not typical but just about a week ago I spend an hour filling out an adoption form and not so much as a single contact! ugh! ...I know if I were to write a email to my local pet shop they would probly have sent back at least 3 emails within the same time frame.
> 
> ...


No. This is absolutely terrible reasoning. All you do by buying from a pet shop or puppy mill is encourage people to mistreat and overbreed dogs. And a good breeder will not breed multiple breeds of dogs. A RESPONSIBLE, ETHICAL breeder will only breed Chis. 

Rescues take a while to respond. They are busy doing what is best for the dogs they have. Pet shops will respond right away because they only care about money and selling to the first person with money that emails. Rescues often respond better to initial contact by phone, in my experience (I am currently in the process of finding a rescue chi). 

Even more than before, I think it is a bad idea to get another dog until you do more research. 

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## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

By buying from a pet shop that is supplied by a puppy mill you are supporting/encouraging puppy farming. Simple as that. The only way to stop puppy farming is to stop buying their product. If they can't sell them, they will stop producing them.


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## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

I could not agree more with the last two posts. I adopted Lola she was a rescue from a puppy mill they basically starved her and kept her in a kennel for the first 18 months of her life. When we got her she had almost no muscle mass in her legs and was emancipated . She is a sweet and wonderful dog but is very wary of people. I am sorry but anyone who would buy from a puppy mill should not own a dog no ifs ands or buts. You will be contributing to the death and torture of dogs whenever you give money to a puppy mill. Makes me sick that people would knowingly purchase from a puppy mill it is common knowledge how horrible these places are.


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

I understand your concept, however people will always abuse pets even breeders who may market themselves as ethical. Not many chi breeders here in Minnesota and like I said my little baby is the offspring of a puppy mill and she is so special to me  I'm not trying to rush the process because I want a 2nd chi lol I am rushing the process because I know my little baby would be so much happier with a little sister and I know I can in time (within a few months) grow to love her as much as I do love my Vida.

I hear general ethical concepts every day! "Don't feed the starving children in Africa because they will grow dependent and have children who also are starving" ... "Don't shop at Walmart because they don't pay a fair wage and many employee's are on government programs while working full-time" ... "buy only green products to save the environment for future generations" ... "Use other means of transportation to get around and decrease your dependency on oil imports" ... "Buy free range chicken eggs only to help promote ethical farming" ... "Don't use paper towels use reusable cloths instead" 


and on and on and on and on! 

at the end of the day what REALLY matters is what I think... which will be that I will be bringing home an adorable little puppy and giving her an amazing home to stay warm and safe, a fantastic big sis to play with and to be her buddy, wonder Fromm brand food and tons of treats and snacks, and of course a new wonderful human friend who will in a few months grow to love her just as much as her bigger sister!

I will look into the process a bit more but I really don't see what is so unethical about pet shops breeders breed dogs multipultimes as well...


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## OzChi (Oct 26, 2011)

> I feed my chis dry food. I am in Australia dm feed a brand called Supercoat.
> 
> Beneful is very bad - there is a video going around facebook atm about it.


Hate to tell you but Supercoat is just as bad as Beneful. No named protein source and full of grains. It's hard to find a decent food here in Australia at a fair price. There aren't as many grain free options and everything costs a bomb because it's imported.


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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

Can I ask you a question? Are you for real or are you just pulling our leg? 

If you are serious about your "theories" regarding puppy mills...just do me
one simple favor, Google these words "puppy mills" and click on "images",
then tell me if you still want to support those types of inhumane operations.

Just because there is evil in our world, does not mean it's morally ok for you
to support it.


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## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

Hopefully you will not learn a very hard lesson by getting an unhealthy dog but you were warned. People like you infuriate me with your ignorance. How can you say you love dogs when you are handing money to the people who are making them suffer. I am hoping you are not being serious and are just trying to incite a response from people on this site. I hope no rescue organization would ever adopt to you if they knew you had supported a puppy mill they never would.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

Wanders in, then backs very quickly.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

~LS~ said:


> Can I ask you a question? Are you for real or are you just pulling our leg?
> 
> If you are serious about your "theories" regarding puppy mills...just do me
> one simple favor, Google these words "puppy mills" and click on "images",
> ...


This.

OP, in this and other threads you have shown that you willingly reject reality when it doesn't agree with you. If you are serious, I don't think any of us can help you. You have shown over and over again that facts won't impact your decisions- you do what you want no matter what we try to say. I don't know how someone can KNOW the facts and STILL do something like this. I'm glad that in your reality you think you're doing the right thing. 

Feeding your dog out of a plastic bowl when you know it has dangerous chemicals in it because it's "cute" and that's all that matters? Getting a dog from a pet store or puppy mill because they respond to your emails faster? Unbelievable.If you are real, I honestly don't think anyone here can or will help you. 

Doing something when you don't know better is one thing. Doing it in spite of the facts and reality that you are aware of is unacceptable. 

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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

AussieLass said:


> Wanders in, then backs very quickly.


Don't leave Dee! 


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

LMAO Ash, I meant only this thread, it's done my head in, well & truly.

Oh, and to the Aussie who feeds Supercoat, it's dreadful stuff & what you save in outlay you'll make up for in vet expenses and a shorter lifespan of your beloved.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

AussieLass said:


> LMAO Ash, I meant only this thread, it's done my head in, well & truly.
> 
> Oh, and to the Aussie who feeds Supercoat, it's dreadful stuff & what you save in outlay you'll make up for in vet expenses and a shorter lifespan of your beloved.


I know. My hearts pumping now! I need some bacon and pancakes. Or Taco Bell!


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## Moonfall (Nov 16, 2012)

Please do not get another dog.

Based upon past posts, you cannot afford to provide the right care for your current dog. You do not want another dog for the right reasons and want to support horrific abuse to get him or her. 

Many puppy mill dogs have very serious health problems. I don't think based on this thread that you can afford to support two healthy dogs- what if the new one needs surgery to save his or her life? What then? 

Also, puppies are expensive and a ton of work. Don't get one because it is cute. Everyone knows they're cute. Many dogs end up in shelters because of how destructive and difficult that cute baby can be! Not to mention shots and vet care as he or she grows up, including spay or neuter, possible baby teeth removal, episodes of hypoglycemia, etc.

You do not sound as if you should be raising such a young, vulnerable life.

I got my chi as an adult from the shelter and despite a ton of issues (I knew of when I got him) he is still less work than a puppy would be. 

Please focus on what your girl needs now to be happy and healthy. Not on dreams of cute puppies. She is fine without another dog and certainly doesn't need to be missing out on things because there's two.


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Lola's mom 2013 said:


> Hopefully you will not learn a very hard lesson by getting an unhealthy dog but you were warned. People like you infuriate me with your ignorance. How can you say you love dogs when you are handing money to the people who are making them suffer. I am hoping you are not being serious and are just trying to incite a response from people on this site. I hope no rescue organization would ever adopt to you if they knew you had supported a puppy mill they never would.


How can the general public say they are against animal cruelty as they sit down to eat a hamburger that was at one time a cow which was a product of factory farming! Perhaps you are a vegan or you eat only meat from humanly killed animals. Either way I still consider myself a very ethical person like I said I am watching several sites one of a breeder that raises several different types of dogs and she discounts for vet check-ups. Also If I did buy it from a pet shop I would wait for the discounted price so any money I would be paying would be very little profit and mostly covering expenses. The owners and staff are very caring take good care of their pets.

I'm sorry you feel that hoping I get a unhealthy pet is best I have had several negative experiences from shelter pets one of the care takers claimed they were only 11 months old cats but 2 years later they died of old age! 

I don't know why but I seem to observe better animals and better care from this specific pet shop and the local breeders (from all the positive reviews online) than from the local shelters.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Actually she said she hopes you WILL NOT learn that lesson. 


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

I've written a few responses and had to erase them all. This is unbelievable. 


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

KrystalLeigh said:


> I've written a few responses and had to erase them all. This is unbelievable.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I don't think I've ever been this infuriated by a poster on here before. I don't know if this person is real or not but my god!


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

lancestar2 said:


> How can the general public say they are against animal cruelty as they sit down to eat a hamburger that was at one time a cow which was a product of factory farming! Perhaps you are a vegan or you eat only meat from humanly killed animals. Either way I still consider myself a very ethical person like I said I am watching several sites one of a breeder that raises several different types of dogs and she discounts for vet check-ups. Also If I did buy it from a pet shop I would wait for the discounted price so any money I would be paying would be very little profit and mostly covering expenses. The owners and staff are very caring take good care of their pets.
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that hoping I get a unhealthy pet is best I have had several negative experiences from shelter pets one of the care takers claimed they were only 11 months old cats but 2 years later they died of old age!
> 
> I don't know why but I seem to observe better animals and better care from this specific pet shop and the local breeders (from all the positive reviews online) than from the local shelters.


So are you saying that you're FOR animal cruelty? Let's just get this straight. 


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

~LS~ said:


> Can I ask you a question? Are you for real or are you just pulling our leg?


This is why I stopped commenting and offering advice. I think we are being duped. A 2 year old dog who has never once been to a Vet, had ZERO immunizations, defensive answers about feeding blatantly poor food and treats and now endorsing puppy mills. Thank goodness I missed out on the "cute bowl" comments.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

jesuschick said:


> This is why I stopped commenting and offering advice. I think we are being duped. A 2 year old dog who has never once been to a Vet, had ZERO immunizations, defensive answers about feeding blatantly poor food and treats and now endorsing puppy mills. Thank goodness I missed out on the "cute bowl" comments.


That's when I lost my cool. 

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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

pupluv168 said:


> This.
> 
> OP, in this and other threads you have shown that you willingly reject reality when it doesn't agree with you. If you are serious, I don't think any of us can help you. You have shown over and over again that facts won't impact your decisions- you do what you want no matter what we try to say. I don't know how someone can KNOW the facts and STILL do something like this. I'm glad that in your reality you think you're doing the right thing.
> 
> ...


I eat off "made in china plastic" myself I know I am being exposed to toxic plastics but the degree to which they are toxic are minimal. I was joking when I was saying hence the lol's and wink's how have I not open I have switched to Fromm brand food and have learned alot about caring for my pet. Why is it that I must conform and only agree with the majority? I have a different views on puppy mills and THAT makes me a awful pet owner LOL really? my views are the thing that makes my dog suffer? really do you honstly think that?


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

jesuschick said:


> This is why I stopped commenting and offering advice. I think we are being duped. A 2 year old dog who has never once been to a Vet, had ZERO immunizations, defensive answers about feeding blatantly poor food and treats and now endorsing puppy mills. Thank goodness I missed out on the "cute bowl" comments.


sorry you think my pet is a joke to you I don't think I feel welcomed here anymore wish I could have felt more welcomed but I guess I just don't fit in I will have to learn to care for my dogs elese where bye hope you got a good laugh at me at least


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> sorry you think my pet is a joke to you I don't think I feel welcomed here anymore wish I could have felt more welcomed but I guess I just don't fit in I will have to learn to care for my dogs elese where bye hope you got a good laugh at me at least


Every single person here wanted to help you. We have you advice on vet care, food, breeding, getting a puppy, everything. It is not our fault that you have rejected most of what we have said. I'm glad Vida is on Fromm. At least something came out of this. 

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## ~LS~ (Oct 29, 2011)

There is a saying that Brodysmom has under her siggy, which currently comes to mind....

_"Having heard all of this, you may choose to look the other way.....
but you can never say again that you did not know." William Wilberforce 1759-1833_


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## Moonfall (Nov 16, 2012)

It is possible they did not know. But the dog definitely should have at least some shots.

We tried to give advice, I know I did, both to help you and your dog. None of us meant harm.


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

All I can say is wow.. Are you serious?

1. Your dog needs to go to a vet.
2. Supporting puppy mills simply because they exist and they have cute puppies is wrong.
3. Pet stores do NOT have the pets best interest in mind. No responsible breeder would sell to a pet store.


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## Chihuahua queen (Dec 18, 2011)

~LS~ you took the words right out of my mouth. 



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## Chihuahua queen (Dec 18, 2011)

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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

1 I already said I was going to take her to the vet next week and I already have an apointment for her!!

2 my chi is the daughter of a puppy mill puppy and had nobody ever taken Vida's mom home when she was a puppy vida wouldn't even EXIST so yea I take offense to when people say or suggest to just let them dogs sit until they die in a flipping pet shop.

3 commenting on my thread to say I am not even worth of you to BOTHER to waste your time to help me by giveing me advice ticks me off given you WASTED YOU TIME POSTING THE COMMENT ON MY THREAD! 

4 hoping I get a sick and unhealthy dog is beyond disgusting behavior IMO and that person should be ashamed of their awful comment and behavior! 

trolling me for my opinions is really not the right thing to do every dog deserves a good home regardless their past I'm sorry you have had bad experiences with your pet stores but my local pet shop has a long history of very happy pets and owners that recommend them because they have very healthy pets that make great additions to their family...

I know I know that's just awful everybody should be leaving them dogs to... god I won't even go their! All I can see is how close minded everyone here is... so no need to bother responding just have a nice day and don't "bother" wasting your time trolling my thread!


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## OzChi (Oct 26, 2011)

Can a moderator close this thread? Lots of very well meaning people are getting frustrated and I feel like its not going anywhere. Lets put our best efforts into helping those who want to learn and are open to receiving opinions and education with grace and leave those who don't take advice in the spirit it's intended to seek answers elsewhere.

If the OP wants further info on nutrition there are countless threads they can research and use to educate themselves and hopefully we can pick up the discussion later when they are a bit better informed and their temper has cooled.


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## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

*quote deleted as well as original comment*

*Quote deleted*

because I want to buy a 2nd chi from a pet store is a symptom of personality disorder OMG why are you trying to troll and flame me? obviously your not a trained specialist as you really can't diagnose based on few posting let alone give out medical advice in a public forum. Why would you even suggest that to sombody who has been here asking questions trying to improve the quality of my current chi healthy. Yea, I don't think their is anything wrong with pet shop puppies are you trying to flame me over that?

If you are trying to insult me personally congratulations you are showing me the darker side of humanity. I have not been trying to seek attention simply been trying to be respectful by asking my questions and was asked where I was gonna get my 2nd puppy and I responded to the question. I think I was not prepared for the hate that posters here have for people who buy pets at pet stores.


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## miuccias (Aug 22, 2012)

The problem isn't not knowing the problem is ignoring.
Before I got my chis I didn't know so many things and thanks to this forum and all these great caring people I am constantly learning. I learn from others and even from their mistakes.
Not everything is about opinions there are also facts and people's experiences that's why I value every post on here.
I want to thank everyone for trying to help the OP.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

Lancestar2, as I say to my kids, 'You're making yourself really hard to like!"

Listen up kiddo - before I got my chis & joined this forum, I'd owned farm animals, show horses and dogs all my life, and even some of the best show dogs in my State (Rotties, Akita, Standard Poodle) but I'm here to tell you, none of that experience or hands-on knowledge counted for anything when it came to owning a Chi.

ALL the information & knowledge I've gained on this breed came from this very forum, for which I will be eternally grateful.

Unfortunately your powers of comprehension seem to be lacking because you are accusing all and sundry of saying/doing things they most definitely have not - no-one has trolled or flamed you, they've imparted their wisdom and advice and you've been nothing but very argumentative and sometimes quite obnoxious - perhaps it's an age thing, I don't know, but you should be mindful that there's 100's, if not 1,000's of years of collective experience on this forum, and you'd do well to show those helping you some respect instead of being so inflammatory towards them - that goes for all areas of life, young lady, or it will be a very rocky road indeed.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

The original post here was about nutrition - I am sure after nearly 100 posts it is well answered, as the thread seems to have wandered and all points of view have been aired, it is probably a good idea to close it at this stage.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Ps - I have been away a few days, so have just now had a chance to read through this entire thread - there is loads of really good rock solid advice on here - well done everyone for being so helpful, I hope the advice is appreciated.


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