# Adopting a Rescue - Fear Biter



## Aust Chi Mumma (Sep 15, 2010)

Has any one adopted a fear biting dog? is it hard to over come??


Thanks!


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

We haven't adopted a fear biter but we have one. Matilda (our very first Chi) was socialized like crazy as a pup. Still, she began growling & nipping at 11 weeks of age. We tried for MONTHS to socialize her out of it & were never successful.  She is a wonderful Chi but is afraid of a lot of things (thunder, riding, plastic bags) but her biggest pet peeve is stranger contact. She is great walking around town & around people & other dogs but the second someone reaches for her she'll try to run & hide. If she was cornered & approached she WOULD bite. Vet visits are not fun with her & the last visit she had to be muzzled after she almost bit the vet in the face, pooped all over her & nearly dove off the exam table (I happened to be very quick catch her). She now has an Rx for Xanax to take before going to the vet. It makes me sad but she lives a happy life...with limitations. If we have small kids around I'll put her away. When the girls have friends over they have strict instructions to let her come to them & to not EVER try to pick her up. 

She will come to strangers after she's comfortable with them but rarely lets anyone pat her. Only a select few are able to. She has met a couple kids she's been comfortable enough letting pet her...not sure what it is about them that she likes but it's always a great feeling when she trusts someone new. 

So yes, for some it is EXTREAMELY difficult to overcome it. We never were able to. Not saying with some it can't be done but for us we tried & it only got worse. I've recently found out that Matilda's mom is the same way (which is extreamely frustrating--I'd NEVER breed a dog with such severe fear aggression) so sometimes a big part of it has to do with genetics.

Anyway, that's our situation. Some Chi's may have just been poorly socialized & in those cases I think it would be easier to bring them out of it. But the cases where it's more genetic--I've not found anything that works.


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

I saw her, shes super cute. Dont decide without meeting with her and talking to whoever evaluated her. BUT, my fiance adopted a very fearful dog from the humane society, before we met, when the dog was about 10 months old. In the three years that he had him, he bit 5 or 6 different people (roommates, friends, his brother) including me, three times. He was a lab, border collie, dalmation mix, about 70ish lbs. Every time he bit, he broke the skin, our friend has scars on his nose, and I have scars on my leg and in the palm of my hand, that bite needed stitches. Basically, a fearful dog is MUCH harder to help than one who is just plain aggressive. We worked with a number of trainers to try to help him. I should add that he _attempted_ to bite me many, many more times, he just succeeded three times. He was afraid to go for walks, he was afraid to leave Drews (my fiance) room, he was afriad of new people, loud sounds, something different in the room, and even going outside. He was afraid of the kitchen, so he would only go out in the front yard, with Drew, or eventually, with me, and he shook the whole time. He peed when he was scared too, if you tried to take him outside for a walk, or into the kitchen, or even out of his room sometimes, he peed everywhere. If he was really really scared, he would poop. It was an involuntary thing, it just speaks to how very very frightened he was. Anyway, I could go on and on, in the end, Drew made the incredibly painful decision to have him put down. I would never want a dog who was that fearful again. Not only was he dangerous to us and to our guests, he was totally crippled by fear and had little quality of life. Also, Drew wasnt really able to enjoy him the way you should be able to enjoy a dog. He couldnt take him anywhere, and its hard to have a dog that NO ONE but you likes, because only Drew got to see the good side of him. 
On the other hand, a chihuahua who bites is a much less serious problem than a 70 lb dog who bites. And that was just our experience. But it takes an incredible amount of time and patience, and its very slow going progress wise. Riley did get a little better, but not enough. Now, she may not be that bad, and its entirely possible that she could improve. Also, sometimes, animals behave very differently in shelters due to the stress than they would in the real world. Just be prepared to work really hard to help her. Fiddle would probably be helpful to her too. Im not saying dont do it, she may not be anything like Riley was, just go in with your eyes open.
Maybe someone else has had a more positive experience 


Add- Just saw that you asked about with other dogs...often other dogs, outside of our household, disliked him bc they could tell he wasnt quite right, other male dogs often attacked him in fact, but we never had a problem with him being unkind to other dogs. Our roommate at the time had a weim/boxer x and we had Reese, and they all got on really well. Reese actually really liked Riley, and Riley always played really nicely with him from the time we got him at 3 months


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## Aust Chi Mumma (Sep 15, 2010)

MChis said:


> We haven't adopted a fear biter but we have one. Matilda (our very first Chi) was socialized like crazy as a pup. Still, she began growling & nipping at 11 weeks of age. We tried for MONTHS to socialize her out of it & were never successful.  She is a wonderful Chi but is afraid of a lot of things (thunder, riding, plastic bags) but her biggest pet peeve is stranger contact. She is great walking around town & around people & other dogs but the second someone reaches for her she'll try to run & hide. If she was cornered & approached she WOULD bite. Vet visits are not fun with her & the last visit she had to be muzzled after she almost bit the vet in the face, pooped all over her & nearly dove off the exam table (I happened to be very quick catch her). She now has an Rx for Xanax to take before going to the vet. It makes me sad but she lives a happy life...with limitations. If we have small kids around I'll put her away. When the girls have friends over they have strict instructions to let her come to them & to not EVER try to pick her up.
> 
> She will come to strangers after she's comfortable with them but rarely lets anyone pat her. Only a select few are able to. She has met a couple kids she's been comfortable enough letting pet her...not sure what it is about them that she likes but it's always a great feeling when she trusts someone new.
> 
> ...


Woah,

Thanks so much for replying and sharing! Yes I read when I was puppy hunting that Chi's are the only dogs that inherit temperment or something along those lines, thats why it was very important to meet the rents.

Fiddle bites now but it is play biting when we are mucking about (We were trying to get rid of all bite inhibition but my partner always encoraged it during play, so we only got her to the point of soft biting)

As this is a rescue I wouldnt know if it was a genetic thing or just from experience. How is she with you? Is she still timid/biting around you? or just new people?

Also, does this affect her behaviour in the pack? (I would simply DIE if anything happened to Fiddle)


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## Aust Chi Mumma (Sep 15, 2010)

Reese and Miley said:


> I saw her, shes super cute. Dont decide without meeting with her and talking to whoever evaluated her. BUT, my fiance adopted a very fearful dog from the humane society, before we met, when the dog was about 10 months old. In the three years that he had him, he bit 5 or 6 different people (roommates, friends, his brother) including me, three times. He was a lab, border collie, dalmation mix, about 70ish lbs. Every time he bit, he broke the skin, our friend has scars on his nose, and I have scars on my leg and in the palm of my hand, that bite needed stitches. Basically, a fearful dog is MUCH harder to help than one who is just plain aggressive. We worked with a number of trainers to try to help him. I should add that he _attempted_ to bite me many, many more times, he just succeeded three times. He was afraid to go for walks, he was afraid to leave Drews (my fiance) room, he was afriad of new people, loud sounds, something different in the room, and even going outside. He was afraid of the kitchen, so he would only go out in the front yard, with Drew, or eventually, with me, and he shook the whole time. He peed when he was scared too, if you tried to take him outside for a walk, or into the kitchen, or even out of his room sometimes, he peed everywhere. If he was really really scared, he would poop. It was an involuntary thing, it just speaks to how very very frightened he was. Anyway, I could go on and on, in the end, Drew made the incredibly painful decision to have him put down. I would never want a dog who was that fearful again. Not only was he dangerous to us and to our guests, he was totally crippled by fear and had little quality of life. Also, Drew wasnt really able to enjoy him the way you should be able to enjoy a dog. He couldnt take him anywhere, and its hard to have a dog that NO ONE but you likes, because only Drew got to see the good side of him.
> On the other hand, a chihuahua who bites is a much less serious problem than a 70 lb dog who bites. And that was just our experience. But it takes an incredible amount of time and patience, and its very slow going progress wise. Riley did get a little better, but not enough. Now, she may not be that bad, and its entirely possible that she could improve. Also, sometimes, animals behave very differently in shelters due to the stress than they would in the real world. Just be prepared to work really hard to help her. Fiddle would probably be helpful to her too. Im not saying dont do it, she may not be anything like Riley was, just go in with your eyes open.
> Maybe someone else has had a more positive experience


Thanks for sharing! So sad to hear this dog was so fearful of so many things.
Do you know what it was from at all? Its hard with shelter dogs, you have no clue about what they have been through.

This is definately an eye opener. Not being able to leave his room, how terrible. And yes, it is hard having a dog no one else loves. my OH's mum has two dogs no one really likes because they are spoilt and not trained at all. Not even theyre names! and Its hard to be nice to them (I quietly blame her tho!)

I am also hoping Fiddle would be a help. Sort of Monkey see Monkey do? 

I will be looking at her this saturday, the pound said I can bring Fiddle along, but I am not sure, they said she has not bitten other dogs, but still.... you dont know?

She has been there for 2 weeks with no interest in her. I am worried that she will be put down! How long do they usually keep animals?


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

We dont know much about his history, presumably he was mistreated, but he may have just become a bit "unhinged" from his time in the shelter, some animals are able to tolerate that environment better than others. He was very sad. At first I felt bad for him, but after a year or so I grew to hate him too. Drew didnt even realize how much it bothered him until he got his new puppy, our yellow lab Ben. Everyone loves him, and he loves everyone. It puts a huge smile on Drews face every time we have friends over and Ben loves on them and is just thrilled to see someone new. 
How long they stay at a shelter really just depends on the shelter itself. Some are "no kill", where they will keep _adoptable_ animals indefinitely, but euthanize animals that are too aggressive etc, to be safely adopted out. 
It is wonderful to adopt a pet from a shelter and give them a second chance. More often than not they are there through no fault of their own and can make a wonderful pet in a new home. That said, dont get her if you arent comfortable with the baggage she will bring just because you feel sorry for her. 
Let us know how it goes on Saturday! She may be a mild case who would do much better with you. I would definitely ask them for a reference for a good trainer if you do decide to adopt her, even just one consultation could give you a lot of tools to help her. She really is a gorgeous little dog. Im a sucker from choc and tans as they always remind me of Reese 


edit-typo


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

Unfortunately fear biters are the worst kind as you never know what's going to trigger them to bite and they tend to bite the hardest. Was she a fear biter before being turned over to the shelter? Some dogs even the sweetest of dogs can turn into grumps when in a scary location like that.

Here is some info I found:
What is Dog Fear Aggression? And How to Deal with it

Fear Biting
This is a separate problem, caused by a fearful and submissive dog that feels cornered. It indicates an extremely poor temperament and possible abuse. Such dogs should never be bred.

To deal with a fear-biter (evidenced by a dog that bites/threatens to bite but has its ears laid back along its head rather than facing forward), first you have to deal with the insecurity and temperament of the dog. This kind of dog has no self-confidence at all, hence its ready alarm at normally innocuous situations.
You need to build up its confidence: pay close attention to understand exactly what sets it off (some are afraid of men, men with beards, people holding something in their hand, small children, etc) and for now, remove that from its environment. Do some training or other work with it to build up its confidence (the training in this case becomes a vehicle for praising the dog). Then work slowly on its fear.

You should really enlist professional help to deal with a fear biter unless you are experienced with dogs. This kind of dog takes lots of patience and careful reading and may never become trustworthy. If you cannot resolve its problems, consider having it destroyed; don't pass it along to someone else to become a problem for that person.


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## Aust Chi Mumma (Sep 15, 2010)

Reese and Miley said:


> We dont know much about his history, presumably he was mistreated, but he may have just become a bit "unhinged" from his time in the shelter, some animals are able to tolerate that environment better than others. He was very sad. At first I felt bad for him, but after a year or so I grew to hate him too. Drew didnt even realize how much it bothered him until he got his new puppy, our yellow lab Ben. Everyone loves him, and he loves everyone. It puts a huge smile on Drews face every time we have friends over and Ben loves on them and is just thrilled to see someone new.
> How long they stay at a shelter really just depends on the shelter itself. Some are "no kill", where they will keep _adoptable_ animals indefinitely, but euthanize animals that are too aggressive etc, to be safely adopted out.
> It is wonderful to adopt a pet from a shelter and give them a second chance. More often than not they are there through no fault of their own and can make a wonderful pet in a new home. That said, dont get her if you arent comfortable with the baggage she will bring just because you feel sorry for her.
> Let us know how it goes on Saturday! She may be a mild case who would do much better with you. I would definitely ask them for a reference for a good trainer if you do decide to adopt her, even just one consultation could give you a lot of tools to help her. She really is a gorgeous little dog. Im a sucker from choc and tans as they always remind me of Reese
> ...


I think she a a little beauty too! I love that coloring! I am mixed emotions about her hey! I am still determined to see her on saturday and try to guage how severe the issue is. I will definately keep you posted, and take pics !



cprcheetah said:


> Unfortunately fear biters are the worst kind as you never know what's going to trigger them to bite and they tend to bite the hardest. Was she a fear biter before being turned over to the shelter? Some dogs even the sweetest of dogs can turn into grumps when in a scary location like that.
> 
> Here is some info I found:
> What is Dog Fear Aggression? And How to Deal with it
> ...


Thanks Heather, I like your honesty in the last part. I honestly think, if she is on death row I will take her in to give her a chance, but if her problem is giving her a poor quality in life then I would consider having her PTS.

Hopefully she isnt so bad, I would even be happy for her to go to another loving family. Just the thought that any of those dogs having to be there is so sad.

Thanks for the link too! lots of good info!


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## Aust Chi Mumma (Sep 15, 2010)

Does any one have any tips on how to gauge how severe it is? besides how she is around me?


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

I would want to see how she is IN the shelter, in her little pen, and then I would want to take her to the play area and see how she behaves. Riley, our fear biter, was only happy in his safe place. At the shelter, for lack of a better alternative, that was his cage. When they tried to take him to the play area, he would become very afraid. When I spoke to the trainer who had evaluated him (I called after my second bite, my vet was already strongly suggesting we have him put down, but Drew wasnt ready and we wanted to see if he could be helped) she said he was the only dog she ever saw who wanted to go _back_ to the shelter rather than out for free time. Im no expert, I can only advise you based on our experience, but to me, I would gauge how severe it is by seeing if she is fearful of most everything, as Riley was, or if its something more specific, kids, someone holding an umbrella, etc. If she seems really frightened of life in general, I would walk away, hard as it is. It was so difficult for Drew, he had years with Riley and he loved him and they bonded, and then he had to have him put down at only 4 years old. Not to mention the problems it caused between us. I was very resentful of the position I was put in- I didnt want to have to ask him to put his dog down, but I would have liked him to take it upon himself after I had been bitten the second time and needed stitches. We sought the help of trainers, months went on, he tried to bite me basically every week, and the next time he was successful, I still have a scar, I said "thats it!" and Drew made the decision to have him put to sleep. Even if he had never bitten me the third time, I still would never have felt he was safe, he had 8 or 9 bites under his belt regardless. How could I have felt safe having kids, or having my nieces over for a visit, knowing his history? And although I understood how hard it was for him to make that choice, it felt as though he put a dog over my safety, which didnt feel good. Keep that in consideration, she may be fine with you, but fearful of men and you could be dealing with the same problem. You love her and are attached and your OH hates her because shes constantly trying to take a bite out of him. Even though you know intellectually that of course it isnt the dogs fault, its hard to like the dog in spite of it. 
If it were me, I would leave Fiddle safe at home for your first meeting on Sat, and if you really like this girl, bring Fiddle back for a second meeting if you need to. 
Sorry for the ramble, I just want you to be prepared bc at this point she is just a cute chi who was caught your eye and you can still walk away, its much more difficult to part with them once she is _your_ dog and youve bonded.
I hope she turns out to be ok, just feeling a little stressed and timid at the shelter.


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

Aust Chi Mumma said:


> I think she a a little beauty too! I love that coloring! I am mixed emotions about her hey! I am still determined to see her on saturday and try to guage how severe the issue is. I will definately keep you posted, and take pics !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oops...should have specified that was from another site, not me, The first part was from me, about them being the worst kind of biters. I got that part from a website, thought I copied the link with it.

My opinion would be to give her a chance, at least go and evaluate her and see just how bad she is. As long as you know what you are getting into.


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

Here is another link I found:
Fear Biting


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## Aust Chi Mumma (Sep 15, 2010)

Reese and Miley said:


> I would want to see how she is IN the shelter, in her little pen, and then I would want to take her to the play area and see how she behaves. Riley, our fear biter, was only happy in his safe place. At the shelter, for lack of a better alternative, that was his cage. When they tried to take him to the play area, he would become very afraid. When I spoke to the trainer who had evaluated him (I called after my second bite, my vet was already strongly suggesting we have him put down, but Drew wasnt ready and we wanted to see if he could be helped) she said he was the only dog she ever saw who wanted to go _back_ to the shelter rather than out for free time. Im no expert, I can only advise you based on our experience, but to me, I would gauge how severe it is by seeing if she is fearful of most everything, as Riley was, or if its something more specific, kids, someone holding an umbrella, etc. If she seems really frightened of life in general, I would walk away, hard as it is. It was so difficult for Drew, he had years with Riley and he loved him and they bonded, and then he had to have him put down at only 4 years old. Not to mention the problems it caused between us. I was very resentful of the position I was put in- I didnt want to have to ask him to put his dog down, but I would have liked him to take it upon himself after I had been bitten the second time and needed stitches. We sought the help of trainers, months went on, he tried to bite me basically every week, and the next time he was successful, I still have a scar, I said "thats it!" and Drew made the decision to have him put to sleep. Even if he had never bitten me the third time, I still would never have felt he was safe, he had 8 or 9 bites under his belt regardless. How could I have felt safe having kids, or having my nieces over for a visit, knowing his history? And although I understood how hard it was for him to make that choice, it felt as though he put a dog over my safety, which didnt feel good. Keep that in consideration, she may be fine with you, but fearful of men and you could be dealing with the same problem. You love her and are attached and your OH hates her because shes constantly trying to take a bite out of him. Even though you know intellectually that of course it isnt the dogs fault, its hard to like the dog in spite of it.
> If it were me, I would leave Fiddle safe at home for your first meeting on Sat, and if you really like this girl, bring Fiddle back for a second meeting if you need to.
> Sorry for the ramble, I just want you to be prepared bc at this point she is just a cute chi who was caught your eye and you can still walk away, its much more difficult to part with them once she is _your_ dog and youve bonded.
> I hope she turns out to be ok, just feeling a little stressed and timid at the shelter.


Oh definately. I dont mind you rambling! You are giving me the reality kick I need because I know as soon as I go there I will want to save every dog I see!

I work for a Council as well and regularly have to go to our pound. The first time they gave me a little tour and I went home early and just cried. 

But at least I know what to expect sort of. I just have to make sure I make decisions with my head and NOT my mushy lil heart!



cprcheetah said:


> Oops...should have specified that was from another site, not me, The first part was from me, about them being the worst kind of biters. I got that part from a website, thought I copied the link with it.
> 
> My opinion would be to give her a chance, at least go and evaluate her and see just how bad she is. As long as you know what you are getting into.


I totally agree. After I see her and assess what she is like I have to tell my dad. He is a dog person too and I think If i tell him she is on death row, might tug at his heart strings just enough.


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

i talk to people who have have on contact with this girl  will see if they can confirm that she is a fear biter and if so what they think about how server it is , another thing to think about is some dogs / breeds dont do well in pounds and will react different once in a different environment .


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

forgot to add the pound will not release a dangerous dog so with her still being able to be adopted at this point it is a good thing


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

i just got told by one rescuer to take her out into one of the yards away from the other dogs and spend some time with her  and that should give you a better idea of how she is away from the pound


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## LadyJ (Aug 20, 2010)

"It is wonderful to adopt a pet from a shelter and give them a second chance. More often than not they are there through no fault of their own and can make a wonderful pet in a new home. That said, dont get her if you arent comfortable with the baggage she will bring just because you feel sorry for her."

I agree with these statements. Sadly, you can't save them all, no matter how beautiful they are. If she is a true biter and not just scared from being at the shelter, she will be better off being put to sleep. That's not a pretty thought, but it's reality. She needs to spend some time in a foster home to see how she acts away from the shelter. She won't look so beautiful to you after she bites a child and leaves a scar on his/her face and you won't like the liability of having a biting dog around. Even if she's biting just because she's scared, she might very well get scared in a loving home and bite there, too. I wish they all were happy, gentle dogs, but they aren't. I agree that you should probably not adopt a dog that bites since you don't have experience with them. I wouldn't either. I'm not up to handling one that bites. 

Jeanette


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

she hasnt been 100% confirmed as a fear biter as of yet was just mentioned that she could be , i should have this confirmed by tomorrow if she is as a rescuer is going in to test her  , if she is a fear biter the person testing her will more than likely take her on  .


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

Aust Chi Mumma said:


> Woah,
> 
> Thanks so much for replying and sharing! Yes I read when I was puppy hunting that Chi's are the only dogs that inherit temperment or something along those lines, thats why it was very important to meet the rents.
> 
> ...



Matilda is WONDERFUL with us! The only time she'll show any type of growling or anything is if I'm getting after one of the other Chi's for being naughty...if I get too angry instead of just "correcting" she's a great reminder for me to knock it down a notch. haha In those cases she'll simply give a tiny growl & shake. Which isn't a bad thing. I call her our little "peace keeper" simply because she dislikes any of the wrong kind of high energy from humans or animals. She's fine if anyone is playing (and my Chi's know how to play rough) -- she's actually typically in the middle of the playing. We have no issues with her at home as far as her fear issue goes unless you count the fear of thunder & such but those don't cause her fear aggression.

She has absolutely no issues with the people/strangers even people that come into the house other than giving her loud "howl" bark she gives for the first minute they're here. Her fear issue is with the actual contact of people whom she doesn't trust completely & will only bite if you push yourself on her. If someone reaches for her who she isn't comfortable with she'll just run/hop away. But if someone ever cornered & got ahold of her (she's a great runner & only reacts as a last resort) or if I handed her to someone she doesn't trust she will bite. But she'll even offer kisses to hands of those *even strangers* if you just hold your hand out for her to sniff. She'd never EVER approach somebody for the sole purpose of being aggressive. She has a geniun fear of contact from those she doesn't fully trust.

If we have company that she is somewhat familiar with...she'll sit in their laps but sometimes if they try touch her she'll hop out like she's afraid they're going to hurt her. It's quite sad how much she doesn't trust people. However she loves to be around people...it's really quite strange. She loves seeing people who she knows & will usually allow those people to touch her a bit but when she's had enough she'll just hope down from the furniture or go to another room. She's typically a very happy & playful girl.

But with my husband (who is her fav), my daughters & I we can hold her any way we like. On her back like a baby, stuff her in our jacket/sweatshirts, I can poke around in her mouth, ears, feet, etc w/o any issues what so ever. I trust her completely with my daughters--she sleeps with them at night & has always snuggled right up with them no issues. She trusts all of us fully. She also loves her pack of Chi's though she is a "diva" with the other girls & would rather not share whoever she is sitting with at the moment with them--but she's not aggressive to them...she sometimes just walk away if they come close but not always. 

I'd say I'd pass on a dog that has fear aggression but until you meet them you don't know to what extent their behavior is. They may be able to fit into your family just fine as they live with you & gain your trust BUT chances are there will always be some type of issue & they will always have some limitations. If you're not up for the challenge definitely pass. Fear aggression is DEFINITELY harder to deal with than regular aggression & it will take an experienced dog owner to help them & to keep everyone safe. It will be a lot work for sure...


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

MChis said:


> I'd say I'd pass on a dog that has fear aggression but until you meet them you don't know to what extent their behavior is. They may be able to fit into your family just fine as they live with you & gain your trust BUT chances are there will always be some type of issue & they will always have some limitations. If you're not up for the challenge definitely pass. Fear aggression is DEFINITELY harder to deal with than regular aggression & it will take an experienced dog owner to help them & to keep everyone safe. It will be a lot work for sure...


That is so very true and very good advice  , i really hope she isnt fear aggressive it would make her search for new home so much easier


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## Aust Chi Mumma (Sep 15, 2010)

sugarbaby said:


> i talk to people who have have on contact with this girl  will see if they can confirm that she is a fear biter and if so what they think about how server it is , another thing to think about is some dogs / breeds dont do well in pounds and will react different once in a different environment .





sugarbaby said:


> forgot to add the pound will not release a dangerous dog so with her still being able to be adopted at this point it is a good thing





sugarbaby said:


> i just got told by one rescuer to take her out into one of the yards away from the other dogs and spend some time with her  and that should give you a better idea of how she is away from the pound


Yea thats what my trainer said. She said that if the dog was 'that bad' they wouldnt put her up for adoption. And told me that some trainers wont take on fear biters because you may not get the desired result, and they are alot of work. tho she said she would be glad to help if I did get her, which is good because she is an excellent trainer.



LadyJ said:


> "It is wonderful to adopt a pet from a shelter and give them a second chance. More often than not they are there through no fault of their own and can make a wonderful pet in a new home. That said, dont get her if you arent comfortable with the baggage she will bring just because you feel sorry for her."
> 
> I agree with these statements. Sadly, you can't save them all, no matter how beautiful they are. If she is a true biter and not just scared from being at the shelter, she will be better off being put to sleep. That's not a pretty thought, but it's reality. She needs to spend some time in a foster home to see how she acts away from the shelter. She won't look so beautiful to you after she bites a child and leaves a scar on his/her face and you won't like the liability of having a biting dog around. Even if she's biting just because she's scared, she might very well get scared in a loving home and bite there, too. I wish they all were happy, gentle dogs, but they aren't. I agree that you should probably not adopt a dog that bites since you don't have experience with them. I wouldn't either. I'm not up to handling one that bites.
> 
> Jeanette


I agree, my dad gave me a little of the 'you cant save them all" speech last night. and he was like, why this dog? what about the rest. Belive me I wish I could save them all. I want to be one of those people who lives on land and just helps animals! but its not realistic :L 

I would like to save her but if she is a severe case, maybe not.  



sugarbaby said:


> she hasnt been 100% confirmed as a fear biter as of yet was just mentioned that she could be , i should have this confirmed by tomorrow if she is as a rescuer is going in to test her  , if she is a fear biter the person testing her will more than likely take her on  .


Exactly, this is keeping me positive. 

And the fact that they wont adopt out a dangerous dog



MChis said:


> Matilda is WONDERFUL with us! The only time she'll show any type of growling or anything is if I'm getting after one of the other Chi's for being naughty...if I get too angry instead of just "correcting" she's a great reminder for me to knock it down a notch. haha In those cases she'll simply give a tiny growl & shake. Which isn't a bad thing. I call her our little "peace keeper" simply because she dislikes any of the wrong kind of high energy from humans or animals. She's fine if anyone is playing (and my Chi's know how to play rough) -- she's actually typically in the middle of the playing. We have no issues with her at home as far as her fear issue goes unless you count the fear of thunder & such but those don't cause her fear aggression.
> 
> She has absolutely no issues with the people/strangers even people that come into the house other than giving her loud "howl" bark she gives for the first minute they're here. Her fear issue is with the actual contact of people whom she doesn't trust completely & will only bite if you push yourself on her. If someone reaches for her who she isn't comfortable with she'll just run/hop away. But if someone ever cornered & got ahold of her (she's a great runner & only reacts as a last resort) or if I handed her to someone she doesn't trust she will bite. But she'll even offer kisses to hands of those *even strangers* if you just hold your hand out for her to sniff. She'd never EVER approach somebody for the sole purpose of being aggressive. She has a geniun fear of contact from those she doesn't fully trust.
> 
> ...


I am so glad that she trusts you and your family, its sounds like when you could have given up on her you stuck it out and she now has a wonderful life with you! Thanks for sharing your experience, it 



sugarbaby said:


> That is so very true and very good advice  , i really hope she isnt fear aggressive it would make her search for new home so much easier


I hope so too!


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## FBRaRrN (May 1, 2006)

MY Radar is a fear biter.When we first got him he bit my had and drew blood.But when he bit me I kept a hold on him because if I hadn't he would have got loose outside.I think that told him a lot.But after that if you know his story he lived with another woman for about three weeks.So when I got him back he was so scared the only person he would come to was me.So he stayed in my room for a few months..It took a LOT of work and a LOT of time but now he is a whole lot better.He is a whole lot friendlier he loves my whole family.And will only bite if he is reallly scared and is conred.


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## Aust Chi Mumma (Sep 15, 2010)

FBRaRrN said:


> MY Radar is a fear biter.When we first got him he bit my had and drew blood.But when he bit me I kept a hold on him because if I hadn't he would have got loose outside.I think that told him a lot.But after that if you know his story he lived with another woman for about three weeks.So when I got him back he was so scared the only person he would come to was me.So he stayed in my room for a few months..It took a LOT of work and a LOT of time but now he is a whole lot better.He is a whole lot friendlier he loves my whole family.And will only bite if he is reallly scared and is conred.


Naww what a wonderful success story! Brave girl for holding on to him when he bit you! I know what you mean when you say that it told him alot. This is such a nice story, Im glad he over came his biting and fear!


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## FBRaRrN (May 1, 2006)

Thanks he is my heart dog.Yes it was hard to hold on to him but if I didn't he would have been gone for ever.


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

My fiance adopted Riley from a shelter that had a policy of not adopting out animals that werent safe also, he just hadnt bitten anyone _yet_, so he was deemed adoptable. So dont rely on that alone. 
I really hope she turns out to be reasonably friendly, and not a fear biter at all. It sounds like your dad at least is agreeable to you getting another dog. Maybe if she doesnt work out you will find another little dog at the shelter who would be a good fit with you and Fiddle, or look for a puppy


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

the rescuer who went to see the little chi girl today didnt get to take her into the yard and test her but this is what she said from her meeting with her .

Here are some Photo's of the little Chi today. I entered the kennel's with Ian from the rear staff entry. She is right down the end. At first she was a little growley but there is a bigger pup who hogs the attention at the front and also a shi tzu cross who wouldn't stop barking, she stayed back for about 2 minutes and I kept looking right at her and talking softly. Some how she realised I was there to see her and she kept trying to push her way to the front for a sniff and a pat and kept getting pushed back by the other dogs. She started getting a bit braver and stood her ground at the front for attention, ie she was not growling or barking at the others just trying to keep her feet on the ground and keep her nose out the wire for a pat. She really enjoyed me softly speaking to her.

It seems to me it's just a very frightening environment for her and she would be a wonderful little dog back in a home environment. poor little cherub. Like I said, it's certainly no fun being a mini 2kg and being in there.

and what was said to me privately

I've put my pictures and notes up , oh, she was a sweetheart. I do hope the lady interested goes to see and spends some time with her. 
Didn't take her long to realise that I was there to see her, four dogs in her kennel, all bigger than her, first she stood away, then realised and pushed her way to front to take claim to me. Ohhhhhhh, break my heart.


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

Aww, that sounds very promising!! Cant wait to hear how Saturday goes!


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

she reminds me a lot of Reese in looks


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

wondering did you get the chi girl ? she has gone from the pound ?


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

sugarbaby said:


> she reminds me a lot of Reese in looks


Me too!

I was just checking back for an update...she was adopted then?


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

it looks like it , will find out more when i get to speak to someone who goes into the pound


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

O thats great! I hope it was Chase so we can see more of her!


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

just found out she went into rescue  would have loved to have seen chase get her also but this is an awesome out come as well , with puppy farmers trolling this pound and her not being desexed wasn't a good mix .


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

Lucky pup. Thats really the best thing, theyll be able to get a much better idea of her temperament in a foster than anyone could in the shelter. If Chase really wants her I bet she could apply through the rescue and theyd be able to tell her so much more about her that way.


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

she will also have all vet work done so can never be used as a breeding machine , she will now also be safe for the rest of her life, after she is homed if the new owner can not keep her for some reason the rescue states in their contract she is to go back to them  that way this little girl will never end up in this situation again


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

Im surprised to hear shelters there dont require they be desexed?! Here if they arent spayed/neutered when they come in they have it done before theyre made available, and a fee is added to the adoption price. Or in the case of my kittens, who were too little and sickly to be neutered when I adopted them from the shelter, I paid a "neuter deposit" which was credited toward the cost of the op by a local vet. That way shelter animals arent contributing to the overpopulation problem. Is that the norm there? Or do you just not have the same overpop problem that we do?

edit-typo


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## sugarbaby (Dec 21, 2009)

some do but some dont , blacktown only allocate for around 8 or 9 dogs for desexing each week and most of the time thats one big dog the rest little , if the pound is run by the RSPCA all animals are desexed before leaving it really needs to be like that everywhere .


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## Harley's mum (Nov 9, 2010)

I have worked with quite a few dogs in the shelter. The shelter environment is very very stressful on all dogs leave alone small ones. Often he dogs who aren't moving around or barking are just totally shut down from stress and others who may appear fearful have reason to be....
with love and patience most become totally different.


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