# Show future?



## Autchi (Jan 14, 2013)

My baby is just only 10 weeks old but I was hoping to have him involved in showing. Looking for helpful guidance and above all honesty from everyone.
we practice once a day for 5 minutes to stack & stand.

defiantly interested to know what color blue or blue cream possibly lavender blue!!! so many colors!!!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Did you buy him as a show prospect from a breeder who shows her dogs?

Here's a good write-up in how to find your first dog to show...

Looking for your 1st sho dog

I would have him evaluated for show potential by a person currently in the dog show world. Perhaps there is a kennel club in your city with knowledgeable folks who are active with conformation?

Lavender is not an accepted AKC color choice. Neither is blue cream. He looks to be blue and tan with white marking to me (blue tricolor). Or possible blue fawn with white markings. What color is his nose?

So many things go into producing a dog that fits the standard and that will win at dog shows. Structure, gait, head, temperament, etc. A reputable show breeder can only guess at a puppy's potential at such a young age. Were his parents champions or at least pointed? Grandparents?


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## Autchi (Jan 14, 2013)

I purchased my boy from a family home, no show breeding or prospect. He came out of a litter with 3 other siblings & no breeding mill. His parents are DNA'd for purity of the breed & there might be a handful of CH. Titles back from great grand parents. Nothing special.
But I wasn't looking to show crazy. I'm looking to have fun & get involved not go for the gold. And money is no option & if I waste hundreds of dollars, at least I had fun.
I raise and show horses if you want to talk about wasted $. Lol 


As for everything else, I currently have one, that is 40miles but worth the drive & membership for what we are goal driven for. I have spoke with the show trainers, puppy club starting programs & all ready to start puppy classes in April. 

I have been doing everything you have suggested, as I knew to do or am doing, well trying. Beside buying from a show breeder.
But iam on the correct path.

I come here to get opinions and ideas since I have to wait and wish to share, be better educated from experienced chi owners before I go and find out in person for myself.

I only have 1 mentor with 1 opinion. Here I have hundreds with thousands of show experience and there opinions. 

My mentor is a chi owner & show handler that grooms dogs for a living. 
As she has told me " you never know unless you try" he may not be champion champion lined but that doesn't mean he couldn't be the start to a bright future for us.


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## Evelyn (Oct 14, 2012)

He looks like a winner to me.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm glad you are going to conformation classes with the kennel club. They will help you and you will meet some great people there. 40 miles isn't that far to drive really. Their help will be invaluable. Whether or not they have any experience with chi's, they will have experience with other breeds and structure is structure. (As you probably know from showing horses.)

As long as he has both testicles, there's no reason he couldn't be shown. And you could learn the show ropes with him. (And build points for others! Which they will appreciate. ) It would be embarrassing if he was dismissed by the judge for lack of merit, which does happen. But it will be awhile before you get to that point. You have lots of time to learn in the meantime before you enter your first show.

You might as well give it a go and see if it is something you are interested in. If so, you can then buy a good quality show prospect and be on your way. We all had to start somewhere. Actually training and showing your dog goes a long way in showing a serious show breeder that you are truly willing to learn and then you may be able to purchase a quality dog.

In the meantime, study study study the breed standard and especially the illustrated standard. Go to any and all dog shows you can find. Invest in learning and it will pay off. 

http://chihuahuaclubofamerica.com/images/stories/pdfs/illustrated_standard.pdf

This is from the british standard, for example, but you get an idea on how an ideal chihuahua should be built and how to train your eye to look for faults ....




























We are not a "head breed" as much as bulldogs are, for example, for the head is very very important. Spend time learning what a correct headpiece looks like, eye placement, ear shape and placement, the stop, the angles between the forehead and muzzle, a correct bite. A beautiful dog with a plain head will not go far. All the pieces of the puzzle must come together. This is called breed 'type'. Over time, you will learn what that is and how it applies to our breed. 

You can even go to breeders websites that are currently out and showing their dogs (people active in the breed, not just cutesy puppy selling sites) and study their show photos and stacked pictures of their puppies and dogs. Look at the general appearance, the shape of the head, the set of the ears, the topline (which should be LEVEL), tail set, angulation of front and rear, feet, etc. This will help you develop a critical eye. Along with studying the standard, that should help you learn what is correct for the breed.

Last but not least - make sure you keep an eye on his joints, hips, knees (patellas) as he grows. Have your vet go over him critically for soundness. The most beautiful dog in the world should not win (or reproduce) unless they are totally 100% sound. 

Good luck!

Edit: Just want to say to not use Brody as any kind of example of what a quality bred chihuahua should look like.  He is a wonderful pet. But he would never be competitive in shows. Not in the slightest. It doesn't mean we love him any less or that he is worth less than the most titled show dog out there. It is just the truth, he was randomly bred by pet people with no understanding of structure and conformation.


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## Autchi (Jan 14, 2013)

Brody, I'm very happy to have great guidance, thank you. 

I do wish to learn more of roach back in the chi. I can set (stack) my boy for a moment & see a quick glance, but not straight as an arrow from point of shoulder to point of hip. 
Thank god for horse conformation!!! Lol
I snagged a few pictures of him, playing & I see his back is always arched a bit up, unless he stops to stand attentive or tug a toy.

I see alot of chi with a upward back, when at play but when stacked & trained to stack without fuss I see the topline level out.

Are all chis roached to a degree & need to stand correctly, head up neck reaching... Or nit roached to a degree, I don't know how to ask that since all back bend at the middle or huntch? Lol

Learning!!!!!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

No, a roached back usually doesn't correct itself. Although as he grows, it IS possible it could level out. Time will tell. That's why we don't put too much hope in puppies. Look at them at birth, 3 days, 8 weeks, and then again at 6 months.  Then decide if they have potential or not. They will go through all kinds of awkward wonky stages where things don't fit together and they look all out of proportion.

Another way to learn if you can't get to a real show is to watch judging videos on youtube. Chi's or course, but look at other breeds, especially the toys. And especially the smooth coated breeds. Long coats can hide a lot of structural faults. The faults aren't apparent until you put your hands on the dog. I've seen a pom puppy that could stop traffic, he was so beautiful. But when I went over him, OMG.  He was a mess. Cleverly groomed profuse coats can hide a multitude of faults. 

You can tell when they move if they are structurally correct or not. Our breed should not have a hackney (prancing) gait. So many people think its 'cute' but it is not correct. This is when your horse showing experience will really help you develop an eye! Obviously if the horse is not put together correctly, he will not move correctly. Shoulder angulation is paramount to proper reach. A well angulated rear will propel the dog with drive from the rear. Too short in the body? He will crab or move sideways so that his back feet don't run into his front feet. Hard to explain... but you will know it when you see it. 

Keep watching. Keep learning. Keep reading. Keep asking questions.


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

Tracy gave some great info! I'm just going to add a link to a sticky here that has a few videos that I think would be helpful as well. I'm more a visual person so...if you're anything like me they'll be helpful. 

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/chi...n/74531-chihuahua-video-s-breed-standard.html


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

Reading one of your other posts, it sounded like you got your dog from a 'family breeder' - hobby breeder? 

If your dog doesn't have pedigree papers, then you won't be able to show, except at local fairs & such like.


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## Autchi (Jan 14, 2013)

Sorry I forgot to mention he's full akc registered.
When he turns 2 years he goes in for health certifications, just to clear that up before I get that question.

I guess I used the wrong words by saying family breeder.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

AKC is a requirement to participate in shows. However, just because a dog is AKC registered, that does NOT mean they are show quality. You could have a 20 pound chihuahua that is AKC registered. AKC is only a registry. Not a guarantee of meeting the breed standard in any way, shape, or form. There are many purebred dogs that have AKC papers that do NOT meet the standard and could not be shown.

Many people are confused on that and think that AKC means a 'quality' dog but that's not true, so thought I'd just throw that out there.

Autchi - not sure if you've seen this, but I just saw this very informative post on the chi standard and I bet it could help you visualize what a show quality chi looks like! 

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/chi...n/74531-chihuahua-video-s-breed-standard.html


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## Autchi (Jan 14, 2013)

Thank you Brody 

So everyone is aware..
I'm very educated with akc. My two rotterilers are show dogs.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Autchi said:


> Thank you Brody
> 
> So everyone is aware..
> I'm very educated with akc. My two rotterilers are show dogs.


Do you show your rotties? I got the feeling you only had shown horses and weren't familiar with dog shows at all. You said you were reading books, etc. and didn't know anything about kennel clubs or how to get started? Perhaps I misunderstood you.

If you are familiar with showing dogs, why did you buy a pet quality dog from someone who has never shown before and now you are asking about getting involved in conformation? I guess I am just confused. :nshocked1:


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## Autchi (Jan 14, 2013)

I'm trying to learn about chihuahua's. They're a new breed to me. I have no clue, must learn.
Talk to me about a rotterilers conformation, training, angulation, temperament & that breeds standard and I will be all in..

Im in the right place? Chi-ppl fourm. Or is this the akc-ppl fourm?

Ugh everywhere I go for help I just get treated like a child.
Nvm I will learn on my own, as usual.. 

Thank you. Goodbye


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Autchi said:


> I'm trying to learn about chihuahua's. They're a new breed to me. I have no clue, must learn.
> Talk to me about a rotterilers conformation, training, angulation, temperament & that breeds standard and I will be all in..
> 
> Im in the right place? Chi-ppl fourm. Or is this the akc-ppl fourm?
> ...


I am still confused. If you know how to show a rottie, you can show a chi. Different breeds, but the basic structural guidelines apply. 

Not sure where your frustration is coming in? I don't see how you were treated like a child at all.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Autchi said:


> I'm trying to learn about chihuahua's. They're a new breed to me. I have no clue, must learn.
> Talk to me about a rotterilers conformation, training, angulation, temperament & that breeds standard and I will be all in..
> 
> Im in the right place? Chi-ppl fourm. Or is this the akc-ppl fourm?
> ...


You have been given a lot of good information. I do not see/read anyone treating you like a child here. 

People took time to give detailed information, links and asked you some clarifying questions. 

As you already show dogs, you undoubtedly are used to the dog show world. Now that is critical and tough! 

No need to be defensive. People are trying to assess and help.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Autchi said:


> I'm trying to learn about chihuahua's. They're a new breed to me. I have no clue, must learn.
> Talk to me about a rotterilers conformation, training, angulation, temperament & that breeds standard and I will be all in..
> 
> Im in the right place? Chi-ppl fourm. Or is this the akc-ppl fourm?
> ...


Huh? All Tracy did was ask if you actually showed your Rotties since many of the same rules and procedures apply. The only substantive difference is the breed standard, which was provided in an earlier post. 

We ARE a chihuahua forum. However, the procedures followed to show any dog should follow the same steps. Those wouldn't be chihuahua rules, thy are AKC rules (in the USA). 

I don't think anybody treated you like a child, she was only asking for clarification because I think she was confused about exactly what questions you were asking and which you already knew the answers to. 


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## Autchi (Jan 14, 2013)

What??? I never said I know how to show. I bought show rotterilers years ago because no one would help me learn to show. So I bought proven show dogs! They're 8yrs old & retired both V rated.
I went to watch. Paid alot of money. Whoo... No fun, I wanted to learn, yadda yadda show myself its impossible. Its pay someone else. No one wants to help, or show mime, they'd be agenst theirs. Or telling me I should have them fixed. I just wanted to learn to do it all myself & show my prides, but it would never be my accomplishment. My female wad V rated all health certified hd/ed+ imported from Germany with rare bloodlines and a multi international sire. Our male was less impressive than our female, but he was local bred with same champion pedigree & health. We got 3 litters from them, fixed mamma, sire lives with our son & we kept a puppy. 
Why would anyone think they can show a non registered dog in akc conformation??
Half the answers I get are more telling me umm he needs to be registered or join a club, read the standard I KNOW allllll that!! Thank you. 

My only question on this topic was asking viewers there personal opinion on my puppys show future... Nothing about akc, his pedigree or champions in his blood.
He don't need to be champion pedigree to show, he needs to fit to the AKC Chihuahua standard. I know that.... He won't mature over 4.5lbs..

At this time I'm learning & educating myself on Chihuahuas & learning to show them WAY different! Like I can't show my pleasure horse to be a cross country jumper?
I bought my boy to just be a pet, my pet!
And hey I thought. Why not try to go show with him. Because I can!
What's the hurt? We start puppy classes in April!! 
He goes for show handling classes come June he will be 6 months old & will be critiqued by a judge In a local siegar show, there after we will know the answer!! Could he make it or not?


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Autchi said:


> What???
> Why would anyone think they can show a non registered dog in akc conformation??


Believe it or not, LOTS of people come here with NON-registered, pet quality dogs and are disappointed to learn that they do not have show dogs. They get very defensive as if people are saying that their dogs are not beautiful. Beautiful does not equal show dog. You understand already so you know that it is more than that. I have seen as many beautiful examples of the breed that were registered as well as not. 

I did not intend to show any of my girls BUT was one of those people who mistakenly thought that AKC registered meant a guarantee of a well-bred, well put together, bred to the standard dog. I was wrong. You are way ahead of where I was!

Instead, I have 3 AKC registered pet quality dogs. One is from a show breeder, has a CH sire and was intended, as show bred dogs are, to be a show dog but she has faults that eliminate her. Beautiful top line, gait, perfect bite and...ears that refuse to stand. Cropped or floppy ears, as per the standard, means immediate disqualification. She also does not have the temperament AT ALL to be in the ring with other dogs nor fondled by judges. It would be torture for her. 

As was stated by others much earlier in your thread, as your sweet one matures, you will know if he is appropriate for show. Great that you are getting him in classes and will have exposure to someone who can help you, beyond all of the great information already shared here, make that assessment.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Autchi said:


> What??? I never said I know how to show. I bought show rotterilers years ago because no one would help me learn to show. So I bought proven show dogs! They're 8yrs old & retired both V rated.
> I went to watch. Paid alot of money. Whoo... No fun, I wanted to learn, yadda yadda show myself its impossible. Its pay someone else. No one wants to help, or show mime, they'd be agenst theirs. Or telling me I should have them fixed. I just wanted to learn to do it all myself & show my prides, but it would never be my accomplishment. My female wad V rated all health certified hd/ed+ imported from Germany with rare bloodlines and a multi international sire. Our male was less impressive than our female, but he was local bred with same champion pedigree & health. We got 3 litters from them, fixed mamma, sire lives with our son & we kept a puppy.
> Why would anyone think they can show a non registered dog in akc conformation??
> Half the answers I get are more telling me umm he needs to be registered or join a club, read the standard I KNOW allllll that!! Thank you.
> ...


Okay, that clears up any misconceptions. Your little one is very cute now and seems good standard wise, other than the roached back. M moms chi had a roached back as a pup but it corrected itself, so it is possible. I think getting into classes now is an awesome idea! And definitely read up on the specific standard regarding gait temperament, and structure. Even down to where the eyes are set and the angle of his ears matters. I think the AKC website has it, or just google it. 

Awesome that you are doing your research and prepping. You'll learn how to be a handler and he will learn how to behave for a judge. Its also great socialization which is essential for Chis. 

As others have said, it's hard to tell when they are so young. If you are passionate about it and have the money, what's the worst that could happen? You wouldn't do well? That's okay, you'd still have fun and learn a lot! Good luck!

PS- I'd love to see pics of your Rotties, they sound like beautiful dogs!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Autchi said:


>





Autchi said:


> My only question on this topic was asking viewers there personal opinion on my puppys show future... Nothing about akc, his pedigree or champions in his blood.
> He don't need to be champion pedigree to show, he needs to fit to the AKC Chihuahua standard. I know that.... He won't mature over 4.5lbs..
> 
> Could he make it or not?


Ok, you want an honest assessment. It's not optimal to do from a picture, but I will give it a go....










Head - Moderate stop, not enough dome in the forehead. Bite - ?? These go off, keep an eye on it. Muzzle should be a little shorter at this age, will probably grow too long. Nose should be filling in by now, not pink. He needs more pigment. Ears may be set too low on the head. Can't really assess his eye shape or placement from the pics.

Neck - good length

Topline - Roached. Should be level. This may even out, it may not. A very serious fault. He is on the verge of being too long in the body. Males are preferred to be shorter, just a hair over square in length. 

Tailset - too low

Front - set too far forward. Keep those nails cut SHORT as they are already too long and will splay his feet. He looks out at the elbows, but that may be the angle of the picture.

Rear - I think it would be fine if he were stacked correctly. 

Testes - unknown. He must have 2 descended testicles to be shown.

Color - any color is allowed. However, his color is diluted. He looks very washed out. Colors should be sharp and crisp. He is definitely lacking pigment. Nose pigment should be in by now.

Size - Hard to predict what size he will end up as. The size charts are often wrong and off by a pound or two. 

My opinion (for what its worth - ha!). He is a pet. NOT show quality.

Most people hesitate to give opinions on posts like these, because most people do NOT want to hear an honest opinion. They want to hear that their baby is beautiful, etc. And of course, critiquing from a photo is hard. I would encourage you to go to conformation classes (not sure what a puppy class is). You need to be in a class of people who are learning to show or socialize their dogs for the ring. Not puppy kindergarten. They are different.


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## Autchi (Jan 14, 2013)

That's what I wanted! I have no reason to ask for honesty and not take it. I'm watching him grow and reading the standard, viewing top rated past champions and current from the ring. Everything for me is learning. As he is my first! From books to classes & maybe the ring!
I didn't realize ppl actually didn't kno about akc registration & show. Sorry for that comment, I have been frustrated for yrs & hoped this round was going to be easier 
I can look at 1000 champion chi's & back at mine.. & have no clue what I'm looking at!


The puppy classes are for a few different things, socialization, meet new people in my breed group with the same goals. Work in small sessions with basics of showing, funimentals and learning the ropes. After a few classes with advancement we can tell if the puppy has the mind, temperament or what it takes at that stage for advancing to show handling classes. Its like pre handling classes like after basics they can provide a idea what my chi would fit in with.. From K-9 good citizen, therapy dog, maybe hes more built for agility or whatever other things they offer, maybe sorry your dog can't fit into anything, you should just go with obedience, lol.. those are examples of what was offered, much more ECT.... its an assessment, or something? 

About my beautiful chi...
Honestly... He is not cute! Compare him to my rott? He's no dog! I just love everything about all the Chi's I've ever met, their temperament & soooo loving, snuggle buggers. I can take him places, he is loved by everyone, he likes doing tricks & omg so happy!! He sleeps on my shoulder! My rott would crush me.. 
. Ppl walk away or far around me when I have my rotts & they are lazy, boring and take up sooo much room, drool, steal pillows, shake mud off everywhere..UGH barf in my car!!!! 
My little Chi.... Lol yeah sooo in love, so small and fun. My mentor helped me find a few ethical, family chi breeders, for what I wanted, she asked all the questions, I listened, learned new things & got a perfect example of amazing Chi & everything I asked for.
I don't care what color he is, I thought he would fade black! But I love his face mask & tri color is nifty. He will defiantly complete his certifications for classes & I want to be completely ethical & learn everything from honest Chi owners, breeders and showing, winning or won experienced ethical chi-ppl!!! 

And yes! I'm seeing & learning his faults. I love having someone else 2 cents I need it for guidance, you said his head, I see what you mean, I look ay others in review! legs still very uneducated with Chihuahua legs, but I see a far set, weak pastern and learning his back, I watch him play with his roached Back, then I see him stand all petty with it straight across, head up, alert, tail curled up. He's not much longer than tall, his nose is longer than I've seen as champions, I've been watching his nose slowly fill in, light black, coming inwards. His bite so far fits, look okay so far in my opinion, again idk, with this breed, but they are set level as of now He is still learning its okay for me to touch and play in his mouth, taking it slow. But no under or over bite as of now.


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## MoeTonka (Jan 17, 2013)

Autchi said:


> I'm trying to learn about chihuahua's. They're a new breed to me. I have no clue, must learn.
> Talk to me about a rotterilers conformation, training, angulation, temperament & that breeds standard and I will be all in..
> 
> Im in the right place? Chi-ppl fourm. Or is this the akc-ppl fourm?
> ...


I'm with you on that one. 


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## OzChi (Oct 26, 2011)

> He don't need to be champion pedigree to show, he needs to fit to the AKC Chihuahua standard


No a dog doesn't have to be from champion stock to show but it definitely helps. Without parents who are to standard the chances of getting a puppy that is are minute. And the chances of 2 non champion but still AKC registered dogs having perfect confirmation and producing a puppy that has perfect confirmation are less than minute, just doesn't happen. 

My Winston had every chance in the world to win the genetic lottery with a mother that has produced multiple champions and a sire and grand sire that are both grand champions and he's still pet quality (although very cute!). Out of his litter of 4 pups there was only one that was even a show prospect. They were all very cute Chi's that are close to standard but little things such as bite and body length ruled all but one out. To have these quality parents and to still only have one show prospect in a litter of 4 just shows how unlikely you are to get a show prospect from unproven parents - not saying it's impossible but definitely improbable.


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## Autchi (Jan 14, 2013)

It is very educating having 1 to learn with. I'm very much in love with my boy & learning with him is more than what I asked for. He's a good teacher & everyone here are great guilds. My classes and training will be so much fun for us. Then after we have graduated maybe Il start looking around for a real top if the line show chi.
As of now my boy has been home just 2weeks and fully house broken, loves his crate & already learning fun tricks. 
He's not Americas next top model but he just may be her future best friend lol.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

You have the right attitude and approach!

Your knowledge already, research you are willing to do, classes you are willing to take and spend time and money and you taking a nice, non-defensive approach to the opinions of those with more experience will take you FAR! Not everyone is objective enough to do that. 

With either this sweet baby or when you seek another specifically for show, you have the mindset and approach of a winner!


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Autchi said:


> It is very educating having 1 to learn with. I'm very much in love with my boy & learning with him is more than what I asked for. He's a good teacher & everyone here are great guilds. My classes and training will be so much fun for us. Then after we have graduated maybe Il start looking around for a real top if the line show chi.
> As of now my boy has been home just 2weeks and fully house broken, loves his crate & already learning fun tricks.
> He's not Americas next top model but he just may be her future best friend lol.


Awesome attitude! I know that you will go far with that kind of positive thinking. And you'll have to take lots of pics so we can vicariously live through you!


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