# 2 yr old Chihuahua will be going to vet for 1st time



## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

As you may already know I have a 2 yr old chi this April 20th. She was born from my roommates chi and has never seen a doctor or been to a vet yet she was the pick of the litter and is just so healthy and energetic and I do think I spoil her at time although some may consider me a bad dog owner given I haven't taken her to a vet.

First of all a bit about me is I'm more of a natural seeking person and I always cure my colds through vitamins and I avoid big pharma medicines however I know dogs are spouse to have some shots what are they really for and do you think it's to late to have her get the shots? As I am getting ready for adopting a 2nd chi in a month or two I will have to make a more informed decision on to what shots my 2nd chi will be forced to endure and be injected into her little body. 

Any advice, suggestions, or comments?

thanks


----------



## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Well at this point your dog will only need the adult booster, I think. The 3 shots they give pups is because they don't know when the mothers immunity will leave the pup. Do you take this dog out? If so she may already be immune. Titers would tell you this.

The young baby pup should have some of the puppy shots; usually 3. I will go by the national vet rules and vaccinate my adult dogs every 3 years.


----------



## Evelyn (Oct 14, 2012)

I would not take a chance with my dogs getting rabies or parvo from other dogs that have not been vaccinated or wild animals. You are very lucky you have a healthy dog. Glad to see you are taking him to the vet, especially before getting a new puppy. We love pictures!


----------



## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Evelyn said:


> I would not take a chance with my dogs getting rabies or parvo from other dogs that have not been vaccinated or wild animals. You are very lucky you have a healthy dog. Glad to see you are taking him to the vet.


This. You took a BIG risk and you got lucky. I am one that is for very conservative vaccination but would not have risked my girl's health nor lives in this way.


----------



## omguthrie (Oct 13, 2009)

You definitely need to get this dog to a vet and get her her shots before bringing another dog, especially a puppy, into your home. You have been extremely lucky that your dog has not contracted parvo or distemper from not being vaccinated. Other dogs that are vaccinated can bring the parvo virus into your home on their paws (so can you, if you walk through a park where a parvo positive dog has pottied you can pick up the virus on the soles of your shoes and then you can bring it into your house to your unvaccinated dog!) and can potentially infect your dog. 

This pup should come with at least the first set, hopefully the second set of puppy shots given. To ensure the health of both the new pup and your older dog I would take every precaution and thank your guardian angel that your older dog has not gotten sick. I assume you don't take her out and about on a regular basis?

Regarding the rabies vaccine, I would say that you should ask your vet what the law is in your area and get the rabies vaccine to be in compliance with the law. Some areas allow a 3 year rabies vaccine, some require them every year. The reason for this, other than the obvious of saving their life if they are exposed to a rabid animal bite, is if they bite a person and do not have a current rabies vaccination or have record of ever been vaccinated the person could demand your dog be euthanized and examined for the rabies virus or at the very least she would be held in quarantine for a couple of weeks away from you where you would be required to pay for her care while in quarantine.

Getting her vaccines is a very small thing to keep her safe from some very deadly viruses that are very common in the dog population as well as to keep her safe in case of the unimaginable (a bite to a person). And before you say that she is sweet and never bites and never encounters a person to bite, what would happen if you had an emergency in your apartment and the police or EMTs responded? They are strangers in your space. Scary to a small dog, what if she bit one of them? 

I don't mean to come across as mean. I just think that vaccines are there for a very good reason and unless there is a very good reason (health problems) there is no excuse to not get your dog vaccinated.


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

If you don't mind spending a couple hundred dollars, you can have titers drawn to check immunity to parvo/distemper and rabies. 

Yes, it is possible for dogs to have developed immunity by exposure to vaccinated dogs, even if they have not been vaccinated themselves. I will have to look up the reference, but there have been studies done of dogs that were several years old and had never had vaccinations... they did titers on them and all of the dogs tested positive for cellular immunity. 

So if you want to take a naturalistic minimalist approach, call around and find a vet who does titers and have blood drawn and sent off to check for immunity status.

Your dog may very well already have immunity to parvo and distemper. There is no reason to 'booster' a dog that is showing an immunity response. You can't make them any MORE immune. You are either immune or you are not. The reason that puppies get a series of 3 or 4 shots, several weeks apart, is not to BOOST immunity. It is to catch that window of time when the mother dogs immunity has worn off and the pup is able to create the memory cells himself. 

As for rabies, do some research into your local and state laws. They are different depending on the state you live in. But there is a lab that titers for rabies (K-State), although it is expensive. I think we paid about $200 for that one. The parvo and distemper titers were about $70.


----------



## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

When you read up the science on vaccinations you'll find that due to the nature of them, once immunised, always immunised apparently. I only ever go with 2 shots for parvo/distemper/hepatitis and that's only because I don't trust the first shot being given when they're so young & still protected by mom's antibodies - thereafter I'll do titers every couple of years or so. If titers shows even the lowest of numbers, it still means they're covered, just that they haven't been exposed recently.

I'm so grateful we don't have rabies over here, so no need for us to worry on that front.


----------



## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

oh my goodness thank you all so much for the information!!  ..it is very helpful and within the next few weeks I will be planning on taking her in (it's really cold out so I'm hoping for a day that it warms up to at least 35-40ish for safe and comfortable transit (even though their is a vet within a mile and my car is just outside the door lol) I will be searching for reviews to make sure that vet is up to par and then contacting them this week and scheduling an apt very soon!

secondly to respond to her activity yes she has been mostly an in door puppy. As I used to live in 3rd floor downtown and I'm in god awful shape I do feel guilty for not taking her out much but I have a wonderful new apartment which is much easier to get out into a nice open area and I am dedicated to getting back in shape for myself and to be a better dog owner (hey at least I admit my flaws) Also any outside trips Vida has always been leashed and I have a very watchful eye on her! besides her mother and her sister she has been in contact with another dog less than 5 times. Of course somthing could have happened but I guess I'm way to over protective ( I have heard stories about how hawks and owls will fly off with a dog and a friend of a friend has had that happened) 

Thanks again for all the information it really helps me from getting discouraged from actually taking her to the vet! I know for sure now I will get it done shortly. I'll keep you posted as to how it went or if I have any other questions. 

oh come to think of it... What type of documentation will I need? Being that I bought her from my roommate and his chi gave birth at home the old fashion way (which I guess was very dangerous thing to do on his party given the high odds of complications) I don't have any document or licences as my apartment complex never need proof. What else do I need to do and what would you recommend? I would like her to have some paper work if I should have it... geeze wish I found this forum sooner lol


----------



## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Just for the record

Vida went to the vet the other day and got a clean bill of health and got a rabies shot and another shot and will have to go back in 3wks for another shot and was negative for heart worm and is now on de-worming pills once a month.

Also I will say (and I wasn't surprised) the Doctor explained to me about his beliefs regarding pet food and he said FROMM was a good brand and he doesn't think feeding a non-grain food is any better than the type of food I was feeding Vida since I switched to FROMM brand. He also strongly recommended I now stick with that brand and flavor as to prevent any problems with switching brands which might end up with vida in the ER.

some plaque on a few back teeth which the Dr. Reccomended Green-e's and in 3wks we will see if improvement happens with the plaque reduction. Finally next time they will do a stool test to see if she has any other types of worms because I explained to the Dr. about how Vida will couch up a fluid about 1-2 a month which I think is most likely because she get's a upset tummy from playing and moving to much after eating... even if it's 1st thing in the morning idk.

Other than that the Dr. said her weight was spot on her coat was great and was very helpful and took tons of time to explain everything (actually a bit to long as I started getting a bit impatient as some of it was a review and or TMI) 

The cost was about $ 200 which included 12mo. of heart worm pills and a 2wk. "heart worm booster shot" Overall I am very glad I went to the vet and as I suspected a lot of the whole hype about raw food and grain free food is not doctor recommended! Everyone at the vet office thought Vida was just so adorable (though I would imagine every paying owner with a dog has the "most adorable pet ever" )

looking back at my questions about seeking about a good type of food I wish I had be given correct information about dry dog food with grain being just as fine provide the quality of the food is up to par such as FROMM brand. 

And in regards to my future 2nd chi I am still on the fence as Vida is still working on getting her 100% pad trained again and the added cost and needed time to train would be better in the fall when I start a brand new semester of school instead of summer when I will be working a lot. 

Finally as to where I will be getting my chi I had put in an application for a chi that was never responded and however the online information when from her being 2yrs old to her being 4-6yrs old! Again another example of adoption agency's trying to get people to adopt older pets! Which I think is shameful. 

Either way I think I have successfully proved I am a great chi owner according to an actual doctor and my FROMM brand dry dog food with healthy grains is a doctor recommended food (as he said "that's a great brand")


----------



## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

I wouldn't trust any vet who recommended Greenies for a start. 

Secondly Vets at Vet school learn how to diagnose & fix illnesses, and what they learn about diet & nutrition amounts to a fly speck of their overall course.

There's a clear, odorless, tasteless liquid you can get from pet stores that contains plant extracts, Yuka being one of them - it whips plaque off in no time and won't fatally choke or block the intestines of your dog as so many have suffered with Greenies. Yes, they did change the formula after the deaths but I've been informed by pet stores & vets that despite the new formula dogs have still died.


----------



## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

AussieLass said:


> I wouldn't trust any vet who recommended Greenies for a start.
> 
> Secondly Vets at Vet school learn how to diagnose & fix illnesses, and what they learn about diet & nutrition amounts to a fly speck of their overall course.
> 
> There's a clear, odorless, tasteless liquid you can get from pet stores that contains plant extracts, Yuka being one of them - it whips plaque off in no time and won't fatally choke or block the intestines of your dog as so many have suffered with Greenies. Yes, they did change the formula after the deaths but I've been informed by pet stores & vets that despite the new formula dogs have still died.


do you know what the brand name is for the liquid? hmm interesting about Greenies I didn't know some dogs died from them. I will have to check my local pet food outlet see if they carry anything. I do agree with a doctor might not have the most updated information but in general I think he was spot on about not being any proven benefit. But I do love it how the instinctual reaction of most people will be to claim the Dr. us uneducated/wrong everyone is entitled to their opinions I guess


----------



## Alula (Feb 3, 2013)

lancestar2 said:


> do you know what the brand name is for the liquid? hmm interesting about Greenies I didn't know some dogs died from them. I will have to check my local pet food outlet see if they carry anything. I do agree with a doctor might not have the most updated information but in general I think he was spot on about not being any proven benefit. But I do love it how the instinctual reaction of most people will be to claim the Dr. us uneducated/wrong everyone is entitled to their opinions I guess


I'm so glad you have had a great experience and found a vet you can trust. That's the bottom line for you and your Chi's happiness! And getting you Chi vaccinated and wormed will do her the world of good and ensure she is protected against some frankly awful illnesses. 

On the Nutrition side of things, well, it's a contentious issue. People will always have an opinion. My understanding is that most of the nutritional education Vet's receive is either from or sponsored by dog food brands. Dog food is big big business, and both the companies and the vet's profit from selling it. I am not saying it's a massive conspiracy, it happens in all sorts of business - sports drinks sponsoring sports training when it's been proven that they can not hydrate you as well as good old fashioned water for example - simply that the training may not be completely unbiased. Imagine the loss of money if everyone stopped kibble and started feeding raw prey model! That's a fairly big incentive to ensure the people you train are recommending your products  

My 2 cents ... dog's simply are not built to eat (They do not have the correct teeth for crushing grains) and digest grains. They pass straight out the other end, meaning more poop. I live in an apartment too and the less poop he does in my house the better! I personally wouldn't feed a human something they couldn't digest - it's like trying to feed grass in the place of lettuce in a human salad, no doubt if you ate it all you'd feel full but we don't have the correct teeth to break it down, nor the digestive enzymes, it would just pass out the other end.


----------



## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> *But I do love it how the instinctual reaction of most people will be to claim the Dr. us uneducated/wrong *everyone is entitled to their opinions I guess


I'm sure research will turn up all of the answers you seek ... I'm afraid once somebody starts speaking in such an accusatory fashion, I have no interest in helping/sharing facts concerning dogs' deaths etc. You go right ahead & put your faith in a nincompoop Vet who recommends killer products.

I have no idea what makes you so defensive i.e. like your last thread about what to feed a Chi that got locked, but the people here have 100's & 100's of years experience between them, many of whom are top breeders, show handlers etc. and ALL of whom only care about dogs' welfare - they have no ulterior motive, got it???? BTW, when was the last time you saw a dog rush into a field of wheat, oats, barley or corn and start devouring it voraciously? Nuff said. Oh, and if you research the life cycle of heartworm, you'll find out why you don't have to administer drug/poison protection in winter unless the temp gets above a certain number of degrees for a very particular number of days 

Ye gads, I just noticed he's given you heartworm tablets AND now wants to give a heartworm booster shot as well? You really found yourself a live one there, sigh.


----------



## woodard2009 (Aug 4, 2010)

It does sound like you've made your mind up & put your full trust in your vet. I know for a fact that feeding grains, especially corn products to animals causes allergies. My chi is severely afflicted with allergies because of this & it's a fight everyday to make her comfortable. No one saying that you have to believe/trust one specific source, but it's in your best interest to do the research & know all the facts. Vets are being paid to sell certain products & are not trained in animal nutrition. I'm glad your chi had a clean bill of health.


----------



## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

I take a very minimalist approach to boosters.. When Lola came here at 12-18 months they had to vaccinate her for transport that will be the last vaccines she will ever receive. My older dogs are 11 and I stopped vaccinating them probably at 5. I wish i had been more educated back then about the dangers of over vaccinating. My new puppy had puppy shots and he will be titered and probably never vaccinated again. I have no choice but to do rabies very three years.
As far as vets and nutrition do our own research they have no idea when it comes to that. Most push royal canin and science diet which are horrible choices for your dog. I have been at my vets alot this month and most people I see are walking out with science diet this is pushed on them. as the cure all for their dogs. If it was people would not be repeatedly bringing their dog in for issues like allergies. I understand you really want to trust your vet almost everyone I know does and they think I am crazy that I do not.
I think the decision to do something like a raw diet is a big one it takes commitment and you need to have a strong belief in it because your vet will take issue with it. I am a raw feeder and can't say enough good things about it. I raised two dogs for 9 years on a grain free kibble and they are healthy minus the dental issues and one of my dogs had severe allergies. Wen i started raw my dogs allergies went away and she never itches before she would be bald in spots? I know alot of dogs owners who have very healthy kibble raised dogs. The main issue many of them have is allergies and skin problems. However they all feed a very high quality kibble that is grain free. I think you should really do your research there is a great section on raw here. There are also sections where people talk about quality kibble. The more you do your research the more you will learn. At the very least stick with grain free grains are terrible for dogs and are only used as fillers. The most important building block to your dogs health is diet.


----------



## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

I think we all make up our own minds as to what we believe or not - I don't totally believe or go down the raw only route nor the no vaccination route.

I do what suits me and my dogs - that being a combination of what I read on the internet and my vet - I think a lot of us are probably the same!


----------



## Kalisee (Jun 1, 2012)

Aquarius said:


> I think we all make up our own minds as to what we believe or not - I don't totally believe or go down the raw only route nor the no vaccination route.
> 
> I do what suits me and my dogs - that being a combination of what I read on the internet and my vet - I think a lot of us are probably the same!


I agree. People can pick and choose what suits them most. I also combine things. For instance, my vet said nothing but kibble. I give raw on occasion too and this combination works nicely for us. Only raw feeding gets too expensive for us. This is what works. Vets will tell you many things depending on their own beliefs, it is not necissarily the only way to go though.

I may not agree that any pet should not have at least one check up in puppy years, but I am glad yours is a healthy girl and hopefully she will never need medical attention. 

P.S I was also told Greenies are not very trustworthy and to be cautious of them.


----------



## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

So good that she was seen and GREAT news that she is a healthy girl! Wonderful!

Since you are in college, you are educated and used to study and research. I am a natural researcher myself and have to be proven things before I believe them. That is true here AND with the advice provided by my dog's doctors. 

I would encourage you to take the information provided here as well as that provided by your doctor and research away. The evidence and data will bear itself out and you will feel an accomplishment in that you did the work and THEN decided what course you would take with and or your girl. You know her better than anyone.

Just to use an example, when dog's are having stomach issues, the first thing suggested here might be boiled chicken and rice. Well, one of mine cannot process grain and chicken makes her sicker. So, rather than believe that I was given poor information here, I have to know my own dogs. That advice is good and applicable for most dogs, and is good for 2 of mine, it is not for the 3rd. I have learned my dogs BETTER than any Vet and that is a good thing. Even my Vet's agree!

Again, great news that your sweet girl is in good health. Have fun becoming a "student" of her, her health, her habits and even her quirks. You will both be the better for it!


----------



## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

lancestar2 said:


> Just for the record
> 
> Vida went to the vet the other day and got a clean bill of health and got a rabies shot and another shot and will have to go back in 3wks for another shot and was negative for heart worm and is now on de-worming pills once a month.
> 
> ...


So glad you got Vida to the vet and that she looks great!
A couple of things, Fromm is a great company, I've been feeding it for a few years, but not all dogs do well with grain, most food allergies stem from ten grains in them. Also grains=more poop. 

Also, I would highly discourage greenies. There is a brand called Petz life who makes a toothpaste and a spray form of teeth cleaner. It is amazing! My chi Gino was has since passed had horrible teeth from all the prednisone he was on for his autoimmune disease, that stuff made them pearly white! 

Finally, I wanted to touch on the heartworm prevention, depending on where you live, you don't have to give it year round, the life cycle of those Mosquitos is quite interesting. There is a website, dogs4dogs.com that was built by Jan Rasmusen (?) who wrote Scared Poopless, the best book on proper dog care. She put tons of info from her book on this site in case you don't want to buy the book. There is even a before quiz in the beginning that I initially failed answering based on what my vets had told me! Anyway, the site and book talk about dog food, vaccines, heartworm, ect. I think you will find it helpful and interesting. All of her content is fact based from world renown vets from all over!

Anyway, great job! Really happy Vida is doing well! 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Oh and I wanted to add that flavor rotation is really important! Feeding the same flavor (I.e chicken) is a great way to cause dog food allergies by over and repetitive exposure. Also, you can switch brands slowly but I only feed Fromm as my crew does best on it (grain free only). I switch the proteins every couple of months, I know I wouldn't want to eat the same thing every day til I died. Variety is the spice of life! 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Moonfall (Nov 16, 2012)

I can't pull any studies up right now but I do have a rather compelling argument for grain free and raw. I keep ferrets, a pair of them. I fed them grain free, high quality cat food (considered good for ferrets and very expensive!). I decided to switch to raw, as this is what they were intended to eat! They have large teeth, long fangs, and jaws for crunching bone. The difference is incredible.

The pictures speak for themselves, but what you can't see is that their coats became very soft and healthy, their teeth are now white like a kit's teeth, the translucency that helps with aging a ferret is no longer spreading on their teeth, and they don't smell much anymore. They have better muscle tone and are just all around much brighter and healthier.

Before-








After-









I know they aren't dogs. But our beloved canines have very similar teeth, and the differences are quite incredible when they are not fed grains. They are generally softer, more active, etc. Right now my dog eats a high quality grain free food and the ferrets eat raw. Both species are the picture of health. My other dog, who doesn't live with me, eats an awful diet, and if you put her next to Douglas you can see the difference easily.


----------



## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Lola's mom 2013 said:


> I take a very minimalist approach to boosters... I wish i had been more educated back then about the dangers of over vaccinating....and probably never vaccinated again. I have no choice but to do rabies very three years.


well 100% of the feedback I had gotten was that I should have gotten shots for Vida so IDK the collective agreement was I was a bad owner for not getting her the shots and the check up so i'm not sure how to even respond...




Alula said:


> ...My 2 cents ... dog's simply are not built to eat (They do not have the correct teeth for crushing grains) and digest grains. They pass straight out the other end, meaning more poop. I live in an apartment too and the less poop he does in my house the better! I personally wouldn't feed a human something they couldn't digest - ...


I thought barley was a good grain and humans need fiber to help them poo I kind figured dogs are somewhat the same... Growing up my dogs regularly chomped on grass from time to time so I'm not sure but I would think it's ok for them. Although do wonder how much of the extra weight in the FROMM bag is grains... If my memory serves me correct the grain free bags were 4lbs and the ones with grains were 6lbs I think so I wonder if only 2lbs were the added grains... although I wonder if it's more 2.2-2.5lbs grains to make up for the extra cost (as barley is not free!) does anybody know a bit more in detail about that specific question?



AussieLass said:


> ... I'm afraid once somebody starts speaking in such an accusatory fashion, I have no interest in helping/sharing facts concerning dogs' deaths etc....


Well yes I know it's mosquitoes that spread heart worm and being that I never treated her before I figured I treat her each month for the 1st year then next year I can cut it down a bit. but thanks for posting on my thread that you have no interest in helping me!  it really nice of you to inform me that you don't wish to help me ...of course you are trying to flame or insight a reaction and try to bring up the past and yes I had requested the that thread to be closed... why? well if you read it you would understand I was getting upset with people wishing I get a sick pet and calling me mentally ill only because of my opinions. so have a nice day AussieLass I will seek my advice elsewhere you don't need to further respond given your obvious dislike of me so again best wishes.





woodard2009 said:


> It does sound like you've made your mind up & put your full trust in your vet. I know for a fact that feeding grains, especially corn products to animals causes allergies. My chi is severely afflicted with allergies because of this & it's a fight everyday to make her comfortable. No one saying that you have to believe/trust one specific source, but it's in your best interest to do the research & know all the facts. Vets are being paid to sell certain products & are not trained in animal nutrition. I'm glad your chi had a clean bill of health.


Thank you, I had pretty much made up my mind but I am starting to consider switching to the grain free FROMM next bag maybe that or at least I will look into it a bit more that sounds like a challenge having a dog with allergies how do you know it was caused from a grain dry dog food ..if you don't mind me asking what brand were you feeding her that she developed allergies?




Aquarius said:


> I think we all make up our own minds as to what we believe or not - I don't totally believe or go down the raw only route nor the no vaccination route.
> 
> I do what suits me and my dogs - that being a combination of what I read on the internet and my vet - I think a lot of us are probably the same!


I am starting to think the same thing a bit... I been reading up on starting a raw foods diet for myself (human food) and many people recommend against it because it's a huge commitment and usually means you really can't go back. I wonder if a chi's immune system changes which would prevent an easy adjustment back to a non raw diet... 




jesuschick said:


> So good that she was seen and GREAT news that she is a healthy girl! Wonderful!
> 
> Since you are in college, you are educated and used to study and research. I am a natural researcher myself and have to be proven things before I believe them. That is true here AND with the advice provided by my dog's doctors.
> 
> ...



Why thank you! I do enjoy being called educated lol 

That is a good way to look things! do you think boiled chicken broth or chicken stock would work? I myself have been moving to a non-meat lifestyle so I don't buy much meat Vida does get a upset tummy from time to time but when it does happen it's usually gone pretty quick. Also yes, I think granted she is only almost 2 yrs. but she is one tough cookie! she jumps 2 and 1/2 feet to my bed 10 times in a row up and down with out getting winded lol (though she has "stairs" she don't care she loves to jump) I know every owner thinks they have the best chi ever  but maybe I actually do! rarely does she get sick and now that I switched to FROMM her weight picked up a bit and she is perfect weight and self regulates her food well (though I still portion it out about 1/2 cup at a time.)



Zorana1125 said:


> Oh and I wanted to add that flavor rotation is really important! Feeding the same flavor (I.e chicken) is a great way to cause dog food allergies by over and repetitive exposure. Also, you can switch brands slowly but I only feed Fromm as my crew does best on it (grain free only). I switch the proteins every couple of months, I know I wouldn't want to eat the same thing every day til I died. Variety is the spice of life!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yes, I have decided against Greenies I as suggest in your other post I'll check the local outlet store to see if they have those drops do you have a brand name? 

I think next bag I will get a different flavor though I'm really not to worried about the extra poop lol ever since I stopped feeding her the Benefits prepared meals she has more dense and solid poo which makes for worry free clean up. Though even less poo might be nice but like I said above I know dogs like to eat grass from time to time so idk maybe I could mix a grain free bag with a grain bag to decrease the amount of grain while adding another flavor and a better variarity (as it would be 2 different flavors) and if 1 bag lasts 1 mo. then 2 bags should last 2mo. and so it shouldn't spoil by then! ...


----------



## Moonfall (Nov 16, 2012)

Fromm is a good brand and I'm glad she is responding well.

Some grains are better than others, also. Corn is awful, I'd even say evil. (at least the GMO kind!) There was a study done on GMO food and hamsters started growing hair in their mouths when they ate it.

Not natural. If you want to feed a grain food, barley is a better one than say, corn. Oats and such are also a little better. Make sure whatever you feed is not GMO food, if it's corn or soy it probably is and steer clear.

As was mentioned, learn your dog. Inside and out, every body part- yes, even the yucky ones. Look her over often. She won't be offended by you looking at the more sensitive spots and sometimes, issues show there first. Memorize normal. Run your hands over her whole body and learn how she feels. Tightness is concerning, pain, etc. Lumps, bumps, etc.

When I go to the vet I usually know exactly what's wrong before I go, at least with my exotics. I am more trusting with my dog because dogs are pretty well known in the vet world and I trust my vet. I know every one of my beasties inside and out, what is right and wrong, what belongs. That makes it easier for your vet and helps your baby stay healthy.

As for the shots. It is important to have SOME shots. I believe we over vaccinate but my dog has had every shot. From here, unless we are traveling and have to have them, he will only be getting vaccines for things which are life threatening, like rabies and distemper. This is up to the individual but it is important to have at least the first full series of everything in my opinion to help keep her safe.

About heartworm- if you live somewhere heartworm heavy, USE A PREVENTATIVE. Exactly how it says to on the box. That is one thing I will always push because heartworms are awful, can be fatal, and are easy to prevent and very hard to treat. There are likely more natural heartworm preventatives out there so look into that, the fewer chemicals the better but you definitely want her protected. Around here we don't have them so I am pretty lax on parasite treatments. With Douglas he will get twice in the summer, maybe 3 with just a wormer. If they actually get a parasite, like fleas, they all get treated, but otherwise I am a minimalist because the chemicals are not only very dangerous for my pet spiders, but I worry for my mammals also if they are used too often.


----------



## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

*Originally Posted by AussieLass 
... I'm afraid once somebody starts speaking in such an accusatory fashion, I have no interest in helping/sharing facts *concerning dogs' deaths etc....



lancestar2 said:


> Well yes I know it's mosquitoes that spread heart worm and being that I never treated her before I figured I treat her each month for the 1st year then next year I can cut it down a bit.....
> 
> ... why? well if you read it you would understand *I was getting upset with people wishing I get a sick pet and calling me mentally ill ... *


Mosquitoes = it's the lifecycle & temperature that dictates when it can be 'cut down a bit', to be precise. To do otherwise can result in death if infected in the interim.

Indeed, I did read every word, hence my comment!


----------



## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

AussieLass said:


> *Originally Posted by AussieLass
> ... I'm afraid once somebody starts speaking in such an accusatory fashion, I have no interest in helping/sharing facts *concerning dogs' deaths etc....
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, I already asked you polite to stop posting in my thread then... looking back on your posts in my previous threads I notice you are negative towards me and fuel arguments 2/3 of the time. You are insulting in your previous posts on other threads only intend to "educate" me on how I should act and post messages that are getting under my skin! If you have an issue with my posts feel free to report it to a mod if you think it needs attention. Please DO NOT post in my threads trying to be condescending or snobby. You have already voiced that you are not willing to give information and any further communication will just be considered spamming my thread and may be reported on my part.

Have a great day and I'm sorry you don't like me, as I know the feeling is mutual.


----------



## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> I notice you are negative towards me and fuel arguments 2/3 of the time.


Excuuuuuuse me - cut & past them!!! I have NOT been negative towards you at all, and nor have I fueled arguments with you whatsoever - people have done nothing but give you advice over and over, but many got to the point where they had to back away.

You've wrongly accused all & sundry of being horrid to you, even Ashley, who's never in her life said a harsh word to another soul, and many other lovely ladies who all know their stuff. I don't know what your problem is young lady, but best you get on top of it!


----------



## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

lancestar2 said:


> well 100% of the feedback I had gotten was that I should have gotten shots for Vida so IDK the collective agreement was I was a bad owner for not getting her the shots and the check up so i'm not sure how to even respond...
> 
> I am not saying never to vaccinate your puppies. She definitely should have had puppy shots. After that a dog should be titered. Sometimes they need a booster after these shots. I do know people who never vaccinate their dogs and their dogs are fine. I think just like humans they need to be vaccinated against certain things. It is ridiculous how the vets recommend very three years for a vaccine I know people who still actually vaccinate their dogs every year that makes no sense to me. About 75 percent of a vets income for their office is from vaccines. It is no wonder they recommend doing it so much.


----------



## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Please remember the first rule in the forum rules -
*" While we all have opinions, please keep your posts polite and friendly. Be respectful of others opinions even if you don’t agree - We will not tolerate spamming or flaming."*

Warnings will be issued if necessary.


----------



## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

My dog sadie was recently diagnosed with ivdd. My vet she could be on crate rest but sit in the couch with me. She may have needed crate rest for a few weeks. She put her on several different drugs. I went home and did my own research. I found out from a forum like this with people with alot of experience that she needed to be on strict crate rest for 8 weeks. I also learned about acupuncture and cold laser therapy my vet did not tell me about either things. I called my vet about these treatments she said they would be great. They even offer laser therapy at their office. She never once mentioned either of these treatments when she saw sadie. If it was not for the advice of people like the ones on this forum and my own research sadie may not have recovered the way she has and may not have regained the use of her legs. Putting all your faith in a doctor is a mistake.


----------



## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> The cost was about $ 200 which included 12mo. of heart worm pills and a 2wk. "heart worm booster shot" Overall I am very glad I went to the vet and as I suspected a lot of the whole hype about raw food and grain free food is not doctor recommended! Everyone at the vet office thought Vida was just so adorable (though I would imagine every paying owner with a dog has the "most adorable pet ever" )
> 
> looking back at my questions about seeking about a good type of food I wish I had be given correct information about dry dog food with grain being just as fine provide the quality of the food is up to par such as FROMM brand.


I am so glad that Vida is a healthy dog and all is well with her! Can I just say please research the heart worm booster shot. If she is negative for heartworms and you are starting her on the preventative and it is the middle of winter in the north where you are, I'm not sure why you need a booster shot. Also, let me just throw out there as food for thought that all vets do not think alike. Where you pointed out that the raw food and grain free food is not doctor recommended isn't completely correct. You are going by the doctor you saw. My vet doesn't recommend raw, true, he prefers barely cooked, but he is a HUGE proponent of grain-free. In fact, his practice is full of correcting pets who suffer from allergies due to grains. Vets also differ on vaccines. My previous vet would give every vaccine possible year after year (that is why he is my PREVIOUS vet). My current vet follows Dr. Jean Dodd's beliefs concerning dog vaccinations (google it). 
It is not that you were given incorrect information concerning foods with grains included--there is no ONE correct answer concerning dog food. Dog food is a multi-billion $$ business because people feel so passionately about what to feed their dogs(and sometimes not so passionately hense the 1star dog foods that sell like hotcakes). Speaking as someone who has a pet who suffers from allergies, and I see what they go through. True, some grains are worse than others. But if there is the chance that your pet can develop an allergy from an unnecessary ingredient, and there is an option out there without the grain why not go ahead and skip the grain and try to circumvent the allergy for your dog's sake?


----------



## Kalisee (Jun 1, 2012)

Lola's mom 2013 said:


> . Putting all your faith in a doctor is a mistake.


I agree with this. Sometimes you have to do your own research, as I have said before. Some people see the same vet for years and do not follow everything to a T. My vet has also asked me to mate my chi with his male chi. I was very surprised. No way! I have no intention of doing such a thing. Even if he told me the "one litter is good" like many have heard before (which he did not), my own research about chihuahuas, my instincts, and my ethics, and all that I read on this good forum, tell me otherwise.

It is good that Lancestar finally went to the vet and it is great that her girl had a clean bill of health. That does not mean that whatever this vet said is 100% correct, it does not mean that he is 100% wrong. Every vet says their own thing. Many dogs have allergies and grain etc is not good for them. I was a bit taken aback by the Greenies advice, but that is the OP's decision. 

That said, many times on a forum, there is a misiterpretation of things being written. For instance in a previous thread, someone reffered to the dog as "bitch" and the OP was offended because she did not know. There is nothing wrong with not knowing, the defensive manurism, when people are trying to help, is what comes across as being uncalled for sometimes. I hope that this thread is not closed due to drama, like the other one, because it helps me to read about peoples' opinions and advice and stories about their own dogs. 

Lancestar2, you mentioned not being in shape and not taking your girl out very often. I hope that you will follow through because walking your dog at least once a day, whether she pees or not, is a very good thing for her. It will also benefit you. I know you did ask an opinion on this, but I know from myself. It has become a ritual I enjoy, and I get my fresh air and she gets her mental stimulation.....even though my girl can be a bit of a pain on her walks!


----------



## LBChi (Mar 12, 2012)

I didn't realize this was already discussed in a previous thread. Therefore I am deleting this statement. Sorry.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Lola's mom 2013 said:


> I am not saying never to vaccinate your puppies. She definitely should have had puppy shots. After that a dog should be titered. Sometimes they need a booster after these shots. I do know people who never vaccinate their dogs and their dogs are fine. I think just like humans they need to be vaccinated against certain things. It is ridiculous how the vets recommend very three years for a vaccine I know people who still actually vaccinate their dogs every year that makes no sense to me. About 75 percent of a vets income for their office is from vaccines. It is no wonder they recommend doing it so much.


oh ok, yea, the doctor said that they rabies vac. would last 1yr. then the next shot would be ok for 3 years. Which I am going to do that, as they reccomend a check up once a year. I know many people suggest every 6mo. but for the time being I think I will only do the once a year check up's I have read online they want to do another worm test and they suggest I spay her which I don't want to have to do that as she has already been in heat 1-2 times so the benefits may be little to none. Vida is very healthy dog and if needed I could easily switch to 6mo. checkups (spring and fall) but right now I don't see the need.

I myself do research alot of the flaws in the American healthcare (sickcare) system so them being carried forward into the pet healthcare system wouldn't surprise me... Do you know if heartworm pills are toxic to a dogs health? I of course I want to give her the pill now but what are the benefits of cutting down to only the spring-fall season besides cost saving from the pills? 



Aquarius said:


> Please remember the first rule in the forum rules -
> *" While we all have opinions, please keep your posts polite and friendly. Be respectful of others opinions even if you don’t agree - We will not tolerate spamming or flaming."*
> 
> Warnings will be issued if necessary.


Good advice, I hope the issues of previous threads can settle I understand some people may hate me for my views, but I don't think anybody would react well then accused of being mentally ill on an pet forum or wishing one to adopt a sick pet so they "learn a lesson" either way I will try to be more respectful of others opinions and if they are not respectful of mine I will let you know or try my best to ignore them. thanks..



Lola's mom 2013 said:


> My dog sadie was recently diagnosed with ivdd. My vet she could be on crate rest but sit in the couch with me. She may have needed crate rest for a few weeks. She put her on several different drugs. I went home and did my own research. I found out from a forum like this with people with alot of experience that she needed to be on strict crate rest for 8 weeks. I also learned about acupuncture and cold laser therapy my vet did not tell me about either things. I called my vet about these treatments she said they would be great. They even offer laser therapy at their office. She never once mentioned either of these treatments when she saw sadie. If it was not for the advice of people like the ones on this forum and my own research sadie may not have recovered the way she has and may not have regained the use of her legs. Putting all your faith in a doctor is a mistake.


Awww I'm glad you shared your story thank you and that she got the treatment that she needed... Also if they had the laser treatment advalible at the same place and how the general theme of vet's are to over sell so they make more money they why wouldn't they even suggest the treatment! Of course I am not saying in your case they would have been over selling given she could have used the treatment to improve her case... Though looking online I wonder if my chi would be at risk for that someday... she LOVES to jump and jumps 2.5-3ft. to my bed at least 30times a day up and down lol I do have a stairs for her that uses half the time. She is insanely longer than a "normal chi" laying next to her mother she is from back paw to front paw stretched out she is insanely longer than her mother is lol



lulu'smom said:


> I am so glad that Vida is a healthy dog and all is well with her! Can I just say please research the heart worm booster shot... ... But if there is the chance that your pet can develop an allergy from an unnecessary ingredient, and there is an option out there without the grain why not go ahead and skip the grain and try to circumvent the allergy for your dog's sake?


Actually as I now look at the item the doctor gave me to give her tommarow it is a dewormer nemex and it is bannana flavor I give it orally and they said it was safe and a type that they couldn't overdose on. As for the shot scheduleed later in march I think that was a booster for the puppy shots she never got idk

As for going 100% grain free what do you think about mixing a grain bag and a grain free bag which would reduce the gain by 50% that way she can get some gain. Like I said in a pervious post dogs eat grass! I see it constantly and I think maybe having a small amount of grain may be ok. Though if I saw much improvement from that "experiment" then I would then consider just getting the grain free bag. I have noticed she eats ALOT less with this tiny bag and she is at a perfect weight and does outstanding at self regulation though I do limit the amount in her bowl to a tad over 1/2 cup at max.



Kalisee said:


> I agree with this. Sometimes you have to do your own research, as I have said before. Some people see the same vet for years and do not follow everything to a T. My vet has also asked me to mate my chi with his male chi. I was very surprised. No way! I have no intention of doing such a thing. Even if he told me the "one litter is good" like many have heard before (which he did not), my own research about chihuahuas, my instincts, and my ethics, and all that I read on this good forum, tell me otherwise.
> 
> It is good that Lancestar finally went to the vet and it is great that her girl had a clean bill of health. That does not mean that whatever this vet said is 100% correct, it does not mean that he is 100% wrong. Every vet says their own thing. Many dogs have allergies and grain etc is not good for them. I was a bit taken aback by the Greenies advice, but that is the OP's decision.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your comment, I will say I have changed my mind about Greenies and will not be giving them to her, I belive I posted it in another comment that I would be trying one of the recommendations of using drops. I don't think brushing would work well since they suggest daily brushing which would be a pain and would for sure cause a rift between me and vida as nail trimming time ever few weeks is enough strain on our relationship lol

as to about the other thread the B word was not the issues it was the ! mark that followed which IMO changed the meaning of the word I understand in the professional dog world the B word is used to define the female dog however I don't think using a ! expresses your use of the B word in the professional way given the specific context of the post. I could go further in detail but simply if the post was truly professional in it's context I wouldnt have been so offended and additonal other things were said towards me that hurt my feelings and which I found to be breaking the rules on conduct. I believe I had requested the thread to be closed if I didnt I had impelled it.

Finally yes, my health is one thing I am struggling with at the moment so I really need get in the habit of walking more and once it starts to get above 32F out I can start walking her a bit (the snow pack is huge this year in MN) Also now that I moved to a more rural place there is much more open space to go on walks!  it's gonna be sooooo much flippen fun! compared to living downtown Minneapolis which was awful conditions compared to what I have here!!! I even have a pretty nice 5x8 or so balcony which I gonna line with green turf (to many big holes in the wood that she could get hurt on!) not for her to pee but to walk on and put up a chicken fense so she can't jump off through the railing (it's 2nd floor so she could easily jump and get hurt! :foxes15: so she isn't allowed out there until it's chi-proofed! and I'm gonna get a nice lawn chair turn on some smooth jazz and just relax after a nice walk with my baby!  it's gonna be sooooo amazing! though only thing I am worried about is birds like hawks so she will NEVER be out there alone but IDK yet if I could feel safe reading out there with her with me... idk usually when she is outside I'm always on guard for anything and I'm constantly watching though their is a 3rd floor balcony and a building about 100ft away so the odds of a bird attack with her when Im within 4ft should be zero right? ...right?


----------



## chaiteahuahua (Jul 2, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> As you may already know I have a 2 yr old chi this April 20th. She was born from my roommates chi and has never seen a doctor or been to a vet yet she was the pick of the litter and is just so healthy and energetic and I do think I spoil her at time although some may consider me a bad dog owner given I haven't taken her to a vet.
> 
> First of all a bit about me is I'm more of a natural seeking person and I always cure my colds through vitamins and I avoid big pharma medicines however I know dogs are spouse to have some shots what are they really for and do you think it's to late to have her get the shots? As I am getting ready for adopting a 2nd chi in a month or two I will have to make a more informed decision on to what shots my 2nd chi will be forced to endure and be injected into her little body.
> 
> ...


There are holistic methods of taking car of your pooch, too. Dr Mercola has some good information about it, just do some googling. I only vaccinate my dog for rabies, since it is required by law.


----------



## Wicked Pixie (Oct 14, 2011)

An exclamation mark emphasises the whole sentence, not just the word it follows. 

You keep using the fact that dogs sometimes eat grass as a reason to feed grains. Grasses are not grains. If you wish to feed your dog the nutritional benefits of grass, try feeding green tripe. It is the stomach lining from ruminant animals and contains pre-digested grass (hence it is green.)


----------



## BlueJax (Jun 25, 2012)

lancestar2 said:


> oh ok, yea, the doctor said that they rabies vac. would last 1yr. then the next shot would be ok for 3 years. Which I am going to do that, as they reccomend a check up once a year. I know many people suggest every 6mo. but for the time being I think I will only do the once a year check up's I have read online they want to do another worm test and they suggest I spay her which I don't want to have to do that as she has already been in heat 1-2 times so the benefits may be little to none. Vida is very healthy dog and if needed I could easily switch to 6mo. checkups (spring and fall) but right now I don't see the need.
> 
> I myself do research alot of the flaws in the American healthcare (sickcare) system so them being carried forward into the pet healthcare system wouldn't surprise me... Do you know if heartworm pills are toxic to a dogs health? I of course I want to give her the pill now but what are the benefits of cutting down to only the spring-fall season besides cost saving from the pills?


I don't personally take my dogs in for "check ups" unless it's an annual blood panel or vaccination visit. A "check-up" is usually just a physical exam, which I can do myself. Of course if my dog were to show symptoms of being ill or in pain I take them in.

As for spaying, it would still prevent things like pyometra although that decision is totally up to you.

Where do you live? I believe whether or not to administer heartworm preventative and for which months depends on location.



lancestar2 said:


> As for going 100% grain free what do you think about mixing a grain bag and a grain free bag which would reduce the gain by 50% that way she can get some gain. Like I said in a pervious post dogs eat grass! I see it constantly and I think maybe having a small amount of grain may be ok. Though if I saw much improvement from that "experiment" then I would then consider just getting the grain free bag. I have noticed she eats ALOT less with this tiny bag and she is at a perfect weight and does outstanding at self regulation though I do limit the amount in her bowl to a tad over 1/2 cup at max.


I don't feed 100% grain free. I do feed a premium food without corn, wheat or by-products. I haven't read every post in this thread so I am not sure what you are feeding but all because it's not "grain-free" doesn't necessarily mean its a poor quality food.


----------



## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

BlueJax I live in Minnesota so heartworm prevention 12mo. a year is a bit overkill but I don't know enough to know when I should limit the pills or what. Also since I havn't been giving her any I think incase she does have some heartworm from the summer it would help kill it anyways so for the 1st year I'm pretty much set on a pill each month then next year 12 from now I could start to cut back a bit but still I don't know if I want to risk it still.

and 2nd I feed Vida FROMM brand with the grains I just read the label I guess only oatmeal and barley are inside! I think that's better than what I was thinking lol I would never eat corn as a human so I don't think I would want to feed vida that all that GMO crap is not going into my body (or if so very rarely) I wonder what people think of Oatmeal and barley for dogs?


----------



## doginthedesert (Oct 10, 2011)

I just wanted to point out- it is not like all vets are brainwashed or something, just many do not think past the one nutrition class they have taught by science diet. I go to a vet that supports (in fact recommends) raw food and does not sell any dog food in her office, believes in a limited vaccination schedule and supports both holistic and conventional approaches to disease. Just wanted to point it out because this thread makes it seem like there is not a vet in the world that does not want you to feed science diet and vaccinate yearly and we are all uneducated cooks ignoring doctors orders!

Everyone (including every vet) will have a different opinion about things and you need to do what is best for you and your dog!


----------



## Lola's mom 2013 (Aug 25, 2010)

Awww I'm glad you shared your story thank you and that she got the treatment that she needed... Also if they had the laser treatment advalible at the same place and how the general theme of vet's are to over sell so they make more money they why wouldn't they even suggest the treatment! Of course I am not saying in your case they would have been over selling given she could have used the treatment to improve her case... Though looking online I wonder if my chi would be at risk for that someday... she LOVES to jump and jumps 2.5-3ft. to my bed at least 30times a day up and down lol I do have a stairs for her that uses half the time. She is insanely longer than a "normal chi" laying next to her mother she is from back paw to front paw stretched out she is insanely longer than her mother is lol

They did not suggest it because they do not think of everything which is exactly my point on why you need to do our own research. The cold laser is a holistic approach vets are more likely to prescribe meds. Chis are not at risk for this condition. However jumping up and down 2-3 feet a day may not be great for their little legs. Honestly I never would take my dog to the vet every 6 months. There is alot of research out there why if you live in a cold area during the winter you do not need to give heart worm prevention. It has to do with the life cycle of an infected mosquito and what happens when it drops below 50. Because I do not give my dogs heart worm year round I have them tested every year.


----------



## Tink (Oct 14, 2009)

Regarding what the vet recommends you feed your dog, consider this: My daughter was a Vet Tech for several different vets over a period of years. She is passionate about excellent canine nutrition, and was honestly appalled at how little nutritional knowledge the vets she worked with had. The reps for the pet food giants routinely wined and dined the vets and staff of the clinics she worked for, working the deals, bonus plans etc so that the vets would recommend and stock samples of their particular brand. 

I'm not suggesting these vets were bad people or incompetent clinicians. They were caring men and women, skilled surgeons, loved animals and were dedicated to their professions....my daughter had too much integrity to work for any other kind of vet. But they were, in all but one case, amazingly uneducated about pet nutrition. Given the very brief attention this aspect of veterinary medicine was given in their training, it was no wonder. It was a shock to my daughter to realize that she routinely was more educated in the subject of pet nutrition than these folks who'd spent years in training for their jobs. 

The point? Do your own research, like she did, like many of us on this board do. Become your own expert in canine nutrition. Don't rely solely on your vet's recommendation. While you don't have the training to perform surgery on your dog, you CAN become well educated in the field of canine nutrition. There is a wealth of information available, everything you could possibly need to make informed nutritional decisions that are in your dog's best interests. The only thing stopping you is the decision to do so.


----------



## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Lola's mom 2013 said:


> They did not suggest it because they do not think of everything which is exactly my point on why you need to do our own research. The cold laser is a holistic approach vets are more likely to prescribe meds. Chis are not at risk for this condition. However jumping up and down 2-3 feet a day may not be great for their little legs. Honestly I never would take my dog to the vet every 6 months. There is alot of research out there why if you live in a cold area during the winter you do not need to give heart worm prevention. It has to do with the life cycle of an infected mosquito and what happens when it drops below 50. Because I do not give my dogs heart worm year round I have them tested every year.


While I may be able to cut down on heart worm pills during the winter months I don't think I would want to test yearly because this test itself was enough of a awful experience waiting for the results! Have you found any research that show any negative effects to giving them the pill year round? The cost would be about the same because the test costs would match about 12mo. of pills so I am thinking I might just treat year round so I get on a good schedule though if I get a 2nd chi I think I would schedule it out better around the season of mosquitoes as the cost savings would be bigger with 2 chi.



Tink said:


> .....The point? Do your own research, like she did, like many of us on this board do. Become your own expert in canine nutrition. Don't rely solely on your vet's recommendation. While you don't have the training to perform surgery on your dog, you CAN become well educated in the field of canine nutrition. There is a wealth of information available, everything you could possibly need to make informed nutritional decisions that are in your dog's best interests. The only thing stopping you is the decision to do so.


Well based on the collective information I have switched to FROMM brand and have been using the one with the grains (has Oatmeal and Barley) tried a very simple search and couldn't find anything bad about barley that and I think Oatmeal is a good grain so I might stick with that or switch to the grain free not sure yet but I need to decide soon my bag (Vida's  bag) is getting down there. 


As for vet's being "uneducated" I doubt that! I think it has more to do with companies marketing to them and building brand association with quality and warm feelings for example this ad.. watching it over and over you start to get warm feelings about the brand (if of course you don't understand the content of the dog food!) Pretty depressing if you stop to think what people can get away with marketing bad foods even in the human food catorgory too!


----------



## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

lancestar2 said:


> As for vet's being "uneducated" I doubt that!


Well, when it comes to *nutrition*, you can safely doubt it. Check this out:
What do Veterinarians Know About Canine Nutrition? | Dog Blog - Dog Product Reviews

Here is a little excerpt:
"...during four years at vet school at a grueling rate, around *20 hours or less is devoted to nutrition.* And even then, the nutrition information veterinarians receive has more to do with the medical management of diseased and convalescent animals, and nutritional preventative medicine, than it does with feeding healthy dogs for longevity and good health"...

I am in Advertising and Marketing (nothing related to pets) and I can assure you that I, on behalf of my dogs, have spent 100x that number of hours studying and researching their nutrition. 

Even my own Vet regularly says that I know more about my girl's diet and nutrition than he ever will.


----------



## intent2smile (Dec 4, 2011)

lancestar2 said:


> As for vet's being "uneducated" I doubt that! I think it has more to do with companies marketing to them and building brand association with quality and warm feelings for example this ad.. watching it over and over you start to get warm feelings about the brand (if of course you don't understand the content of the dog food!) Pretty depressing if you stop to think what people can get away with marketing bad foods even in the human food catorgory too!


The first time I took Jaxx to the vet he tried to push Science Diet on me and I explained why I would never feed a food like Science Diet or a grain inclusive food for that matter. After spending most of the appointment explaining my research and my opinion and what was in Jaxx's diet the vet admitted that they do not train a lot in nutrition in Veterinary school and that he wished all of his pet parents actually researched nutrition and pet health. There are some Vets that specialize in nutrition for animals but they are far less than the vets that push diets like Science Diet. I do not think that Vets suggest diets because they feel warm and fuzzy because of commercials but I do think that some vets suggest low quality food because they were never taught any different. I could personally watch the ad multiple times and I would still not have warm fuzzy feelings about the food. 
As for feeding grains because dogs eat grass that is like comparing apples and oranges. I won't even eat meat that has been grain fed so I definitely will not feed my dog grains. Grains are fillers in dogs food and it is not something that they need to be healthy.


----------



## Moonfall (Nov 16, 2012)

Jesuschick, that is a great post.

I know I've put my opinion on ancestral diets in the thread already using my ferrets as examples but I stand by that.

Dogs are meant to eat meat, look at the teeth. The more meat the better.


----------



## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

I recently got some cookies FROMM brand (treats) that have oatmeal in them and her dog food has oatmeal and barley. While I do agree corn and wheat are best to be avoided as I myself am trying to avoid them in my human diet. 

My question again is... Is Barley and Oatmeal still considered worse, not as bad, or equal to Wheat and Corn?

I don't think all grains are equal as in they are all bad. I was told that FROMM uses the "good grains" also being that FROMM with grains is a 4 star food that surly must stand for somthing about some types of grains being better than others/ less damaging to a dogs health.


----------



## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Moonfall said:


> Jesuschick, that is a great post.
> 
> I know I've put my opinion on ancestral diets in the thread already using my ferrets as examples but I stand by that.
> 
> Dogs are meant to eat meat, look at the teeth. The more meat the better.


I have SEVERAL more articles similar. I may make an entire thread of them. Including the exciting one announcing that U.K. vet students could benefit by giant school grants provided by Hill's SCIENCE DIET/PLAN. 

So, the education is both BRIEF and BIASED. 

I figured one was enough to share as to not derail the OP's thread.


----------



## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

lancestar2 said:


> I recently got some cookies FROMM brand (treats) that have oatmeal in them and her dog food has oatmeal and barley. While I do agree corn and wheat are best to be avoided as I myself am trying to avoid them in my human diet.
> 
> My question again is... Is Barley and Oatmeal still considered worse not as bad, or equal to Wheat and Corn?
> 
> I don't think all grains are equal as in they are all bad. I was told that FROMM uses the "good grains" also being that FROMM with grains is a 4 star food that surly must stand for something about some types of grains being better than others/ less damaging to a dogs health.


True. I would never feed corn or wheat (known allergens) but if I was feeding grain I would feed the others.


----------



## lancestar2 (Jan 19, 2013)

jesuschick said:


> I have SEVERAL more articles similar. I may make an entire thread of them. Including the exciting one announcing that U.K. vet students could benefit by giant school grants provided by Hill's SCIENCE DIET/PLAN.
> 
> So, the education is both BRIEF and BIASED.
> 
> I figured one was enough to share as to not derail the OP's thread.


well if you are considering creating your own thread about dog's diet and health I would suggest you consider making a youtube video or something like that I'd perfer watching a video than reading  ...as I think you would be able to get a larger audience too


----------



## intent2smile (Dec 4, 2011)

lancestar2 said:


> I recently got some cookies FROMM brand (treats) that have oatmeal in them and her dog food has oatmeal and barley. While I do agree corn and wheat are best to be avoided as I myself am trying to avoid them in my human diet.
> 
> My question again is... Is Barley and Oatmeal still considered worse, not as bad, or equal to Wheat and Corn?
> 
> I don't think all grains are equal as in they are all bad. I was told that FROMM uses the "good grains" also being that FROMM with grains is a 4 star food that surly must stand for somthing about some types of grains being better than others/ less damaging to a dogs health.


I don't think it comes down to if they good, bad, or equal I think it comes down to that dogs do not need grains in their diet. 




jesuschick said:


> I have SEVERAL more articles similar. I may make an entire thread of them. Including the exciting one announcing that U.K. vet students could benefit by giant school grants provided by Hill's SCIENCE DIET/PLAN.
> 
> So, the education is both BRIEF and BIASED.
> 
> I figured one was enough to share as to not derail the OP's thread.


Jesuschick that is a great article! Thank you for sharing. I think an entire thread would be very beneficial!


----------



## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

lancestar2 said:


> well if you are considering creating your own thread about dog's diet and health I would suggest you consider making a youtube video or something like that I'd perfer watching a video than reading  ...as I think you would be able to get a larger audience too


I was not going to make a rambling and long post. I was thinking of starting a thread with a number of links to articles. Just condensing for people who do not want to research this specific topic since I have already done so. 

Like I have said before, we all need to research, study and read about our dogs. NOT take what we read here-OR are told by our Vets as truth. Makes us more powerful and less defensive.

I was offering to condense and educate, not entertain.


----------

