# Deerheads very interesting,



## glyndwr

Coppied off google

First of all- let me emphasize that the AKC doesn't recognize our beloved deer Chihuahuas. In fact, many lovers of Chihuahuas have a hard time deciding whether there ARE types of Chihuahuas. You will get two arguments- Yes and NO.
The NO's state categorically that any reputable seller will sell you a standard dog and should not charge additional for Deer, Apple/Dome heads, Teacup as there is no such thing. However, by simply admitting that you can breed for these differences, you admit to a TYPE of Chihuahua.
The excuse is that the AKC doesn't recognize them, however, there are MANY popular breeds that the AKC doesn't recognize at all, such as Rat Terriers, Jack Russels, etc.
The AKC show requirements for the chihuahua state that the dog must be under 6 pounds, yet early (hundred year old) pictures show chihuahuas being held by royalty and show the larger deer chihuahua and NOT the stunted show chihuahua of today. The current AKC standard of show chihuahua is only about 40 years old and promotes breeding runt to runt to get the smaller dog. Nowhere in the AKC Standard does it state a minimun weight or height, it only prevents size MAXIMUM. Thus it is my belief that the AKC is NOT the foremost expert in the real chihuahua, it is expert only in creating stunted and unhealthy dogs.

In this article you will learn to recognize the beloved deer Chihuahuas, loved by many owners of these beautiful little characters

Beautiful deer chihuahuaDeer Chihuahua--the original type of dog from a thousand years ago. It is thought that the Chihuahua is born from a mating of the Ancient Techichi dog of the Mayans, to a Chinese Crested dog brought over when the land bridge between the North America and Asia continents weren't under water. 

Another source suggests that Chihuahuas are the ONLY breed of dog to descend from foxes and not wolves. 

Whatever their origins, the Original Chihuahua looks nothing like the misbred, runt to runt breeding now going on under AKC in order to gain popularity.

Deer chihuahua body, long and leanDeer chihuahuas are the largest of the Chihuahua breed, with the males standing about 12" at the back and the females 10-12". The legs in this type are proportional, being as high as the body is long, and lend themselves to fewer health ailments. Deer chihuahuas can weigh up to twenty pounds and live about twenty years.

one Bobble head deer chiThe head is clean with a fine, longer muzzle. Some noses are very long, while others resemble terrier snouts. Some even retain the "bobble head" AND the longer snout, 
Deer chihuahuas share their owner!!The deer chihuahua differs from the AKC standard in another matter- temperment. AKC Chi's are prone to shivering and snapping, and a fierce unwillingness to share the owner with another dog.
The deer Chi is a well rounded, happy animal that will gladly snuggle with three other chihuahuas, all on the same master's lap.
As close to ORIGINAL as possibleDo not let anyone tell you that your dog is not a chihuahua. Your dog is the original chihuahua before the practice of breeding runt to runt for the smallest dog took over. Deer chihuahuas can crop up in litters from two stunted/teacups parents and become as large as twenty pounds.

Deer chihuahuas are NOT a chihuahua-Min Pin cross! They are a full blooded, healthier version chihuahua than the AKC standard. They are the ORIGINAL chihuahua!
Beautiful deer chihuahuaMore and more folks are beginning to catch on that the deer chihuahua makes an excellent companion animal, with none of the snippy-ness associated with the runt chihuahuas of the AKC.

Deer chihuahuas are being added to families with small children, something that most AKC breeders of Chihuahuas would discourage because of the tendancy to bite when handled.

Sometime in the future, we may see the AKC adopt the deer chihuahua as another breed, which would be accepted to most owners of this precious dog from the Ancient Mayans. Perhaps it could be called the Techichi, like the ancients called it.

Whatever the outcome, the fierce loyalty of owners of the deer chihuahua guarantee that this smart, fun loving Chihuahua will have a bright future!
.


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## jesicamyers

I do wonder what will happen to the breed as dogs get smaller and smaller. Hubby and I will be looking to add a chi baby to the family next year sometime, so I'm always looking. I tell hubby I want another deer head and he always answers that I'll see a standard, snub nosed little baby and change my mind. I'm partial to rescues, and any puppy we find will most likely be a mix. I don't mind paying for a well-bred puppy, I just feel guilty knowing how many doggies need homes.


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## LovesMyPups

Well, Lo is a "deerhead" chihuahua, but I only think of that term as a descriptive word, not a classification...
Anyone can post anything on the internet and have it linked from google... 
I especially hate this part... 


glyndwr said:


> Beautiful deer chihuahuaMore and more folks are beginning to catch on that the deer chihuahua makes an excellent companion animal, with none of the snippy-ness associated with the runt chihuahuas of the AKC.


And grammar is really huge on my list...

ETA: I missed this the first time, too. I don't think tendency to bite is the reason breeders would not suggest a chihuahua for a family with small children. Rather the puppy's safety and well-being. 


glyndwr said:


> Deer chihuahuas are being added to families with small children, something that most AKC breeders of Chihuahuas would discourage because of the tendancy to bite when handled.
> 
> .


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## glyndwr

jesicamyers said:


> I do wonder what will happen to the breed as dogs get smaller and smaller. Hubby and I will be looking to add a chi baby to the family next year sometime, so I'm always looking. I tell hubby I want another deer head and he always answers that I'll see a standard, snub nosed little baby and change my mind. I'm partial to rescues, and any puppy we find will most likely be a mix. I don't mind paying for a well-bred puppy, I just feel guilty knowing how many doggies need homes.


I think it gives you that feel good factor that you`ve done some good having a rescue, Theres always someone to buy the pups , not everyone wants a rescue , my little Glyn was really ill when i had him, but its give me so much pleasure seeing him inprove from week to week, i had a standard chi before Glyn, sadly he went missing while staying with a friend, i will say he was very protective and aggressive my children were unable to stroke him in all the years i had him, he also use to shake a lot, yet Glyn is deerhead so iv been told, and he rarley shakes, and has a wonderfull nature with everyone, doesnt snort either like my other chi did, , so might be some truth in the above, ..


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## glyndwr

LovesMyPups said:


> Well, Lo is a "deerhead" chihuahua, but I only think of that term as a descriptive word, not a classification...
> Anyone can post anything on the internet and have it linked from google...
> I especially hate this part...
> 
> And grammar is really huge on my list...
> 
> ETA: I missed this the first time, too. I don't think tendency to bite is the reason breeders would not suggest a chihuahua for a family with small children. Rather the puppy's safety and well-being.


As i said, I copied from net, Thought some people might like to read it, I was only concerned about the deerhead comments as thats what i was searching for,


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## flippedstars

LOL sounds like the person that wrote it doesn't know what they are talking about. My nasty-temperament-ed dog is a so-called "deer" chihuahua. My "appleheads" are all fabulous, loving, non-biting, sweet, sound pets.

And, the breed is not getting "smaller and smaller", the standard has always stated that 2-6 lbs is the weight allowed for a chihuahua, with 4-6 lbs preferred in show and breeding stock.


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## jesicamyers

What I meant by smaller and smaller is the popularity of the tiny tiny chis. Breed standard (us and uk) says up to six pounds but doesn't specify a lower limit. Uk breed standard does say 4-6 lbs preferred, however. Historically, chihuahuas were larger, and my concern is that as tiny tiny becomes more normal, health and behavior could deteriorate.


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## ExoticChis

I think that entire article is crap!!
I have 2 Chihuahuas
According to that article 

Honey would fall into the description
of "deer head"
Due to her longer muzzle

Izzabella would fall into the description
of "stunted and unhealthy dogs"
Due to her shorter muzzle and domed head

Well if deer heads are not snappy, then why
does honey snap at other dogs other then chi's
(and some times chi's also) She has been highly 
socialized but still does this.
Honey sometimes will and some times wont share
my lap with other dogs, it really depends on her mood
Honey is great with my cats and my kids

Izzy is great with all animals including my cats and is
fantastic with my children, never snaps at anything
or anyone, only time I have seen her be snappy is 
when my cousin's chi Myami wants to play and Izzy does 
not.
She is healthy and well balanced, but according to that
article she should be the opposite.
Both my dogs are healthy and will both share me with
other people. Sure they recognise strangers but are still
happy to go up to anyone and sit on their lap. Neither
fiercely defend me.
I think that article was written by someone with either
a badly bred chi, or a chi mix and they are trying to
justify it to them self and any idiot who will listen that
or current chi's who are to current standard, are nasty
unhealthy dogs, and because their chi is not to standard
that it some how makes them a better dog.


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## flippedstars

glyndwr said:


> Coppied off google
> 
> First of all- let me emphasize that the AKC doesn't recognize our beloved deer Chihuahuas. In fact, many lovers of Chihuahuas have a hard time deciding whether there ARE types of Chihuahuas. You will get two arguments- Yes and NO.
> 
> *They don't recognize your so-called "apple-headed" dog either, they simply describe what the shape of the head should be -- well domed. *
> 
> The NO's state categorically that any reputable seller will sell you a standard dog and should not charge additional for Deer, Apple/Dome heads, Teacup as there is no such thing. However, by simply admitting that you can breed for these differences, you admit to a TYPE of Chihuahua.
> 
> *This sounds like a descriptor, not a type. Just because you call a chihuahua brown, it does not mean that it is a whole separate "type" of chihuahua. A chihuahua is a chihuahua whether it is spotted, leggy, solid colored, snub nosed, or longer snouted, big or small.*
> 
> The excuse is that the AKC doesn't recognize them, however, there are MANY popular breeds that the AKC doesn't recognize at all, such as Rat Terriers, Jack Russels, etc.
> 
> *Nowhere does it say "deer type chihuahuas are faulted or not recognized"...here are the disqualifying traits for the breed, there are only 4:
> 
> Any dog over 6 pounds in weight.
> Broken down or cropped ears.
> Docked tail, bobtail.
> In Long Coats, too thin coat that resembles bareness.
> 
> *
> 
> The AKC show requirements for the chihuahua state that the dog must be under 6 pounds, yet early (hundred year old) pictures show chihuahuas being held by royalty and show the larger deer chihuahua and NOT the stunted show chihuahua of today. The current AKC standard of show chihuahua is only about 40 years old and promotes breeding runt to runt to get the smaller dog. Nowhere in the AKC Standard does it state a minimun weight or height, it only prevents size MAXIMUM. Thus it is my belief that the AKC is NOT the foremost expert in the real chihuahua, it is expert only in creating stunted and unhealthy dogs.
> 
> *Lol, has this person ever been to a show ring? Most chis that are shown are right at the 6 lb mark, many are over, but they don't weigh them. I have a 4 lb chihuahua that I show and he is by far the smallest in the ring, unless you look at the puppies class, on occasion there is one smaller than him there. These are not "runts", they are very healthy, sound little dogs that pass many of the same health tests as larger breeds. It sounds like this person is just building up an argument to sell back yard bred puppies that are over-size, and probably unhealthy, too! Sounds like this person needs to go to a show to see what's really in the ring. Very few are actually "snub nosed" and I've never seen a "runt" shown.*
> 
> 
> In this article you will learn to recognize the beloved deer Chihuahuas, loved by many owners of these beautiful little characters
> 
> Beautiful deer chihuahuaDeer Chihuahua--the original type of dog from a thousand years ago. It is thought that the Chihuahua is born from a mating of the Ancient Techichi dog of the Mayans, to a Chinese Crested dog brought over when the land bridge between the North America and Asia continents weren't under water.
> 
> Another source suggests that Chihuahuas are the ONLY breed of dog to descend from foxes and not wolves.
> 
> *I actually have researched this extensively. Chihuahuas share 99.8% of their DNA with wolves, a fox is entirely different. It would stand to reason that a fox might be a closer relative from a purely deductive point of view, but bottom line is it just isn't so, no matter how much they resemble each other. It is true that initially the breed had flatter heads and longer noses. This is before the breed standard had fully developed. The dogs you see in the show ring are often more extreme than what the standard calls for, head-wise, but it has become part of what the breed should be, like it or not*
> 
> Whatever their origins, the Original Chihuahua looks nothing like the misbred, runt to runt breeding now going on under AKC in order to gain popularity.
> 
> *Again, what is this person on? It sounds like they are just trying to justify breeding massive dogs. No one breeds runts. Runts die before they are of breeding age most of the time anyway, and goodness knows they can't and aren't bred from.*
> 
> Deer chihuahua body, long and leanDeer chihuahuas are the largest of the Chihuahua breed, with the males standing about 12" at the back and the females 10-12". The legs in this type are proportional, being as high as the body is long, and lend themselves to fewer health ailments. Deer chihuahuas can weigh up to twenty pounds and live about twenty years.
> 
> *The chihuahua has always and should always be slightly off square (longer than it is tall). Sure, anything can be up to 20 lbs...but it doesn't mean it should be. Get a Bichon if you want a 20 lb dog lol.*
> 
> one Bobble head deer chiThe head is clean with a fine, longer muzzle. Some noses are very long, while others resemble terrier snouts. Some even retain the "bobble head" AND the longer snout,
> Deer chihuahuas share their owner!!The deer chihuahua differs from the AKC standard in another matter- temperment. AKC Chi's are prone to shivering and snapping, and a fierce unwillingness to share the owner with another dog.
> 
> *Hmmm, not mine, and not any of the chis I know owned by breeders working very carefully and responsibly with the breed. No responsible breeder breeds an ill-tempered chi, even if the dog is the most perfect specimen otherwise. My dogs also love and know many people, and do not show preference between my husband and I. They adapt well to new situations and people. Part of that is good breeding, and part of it is socialization.*
> 
> 
> The deer Chi is a well rounded, happy animal that will gladly snuggle with three other chihuahuas, all on the same master's lap.
> As close to ORIGINAL as possibleDo not let anyone tell you that your dog is not a chihuahua. Your dog is the original chihuahua before the practice of breeding runt to runt for the smallest dog took over. Deer chihuahuas can crop up in litters from two stunted/teacups parents and become as large as twenty pounds.
> 
> *LMAO again the nastiest dog I have ever known is our Laurel, one of these so called perfect deer-chis. Not saying they are all like that but she was bred at the height of the taco bell craze, with no regard to temperament or type. It's stupid to say that being a deer chi means it will be well-temperamented. That's like saying all blonde girls are sluts. *
> 
> Deer chihuahuas are NOT a chihuahua-Min Pin cross! They are a full blooded, healthier version chihuahua than the AKC standard. They are the ORIGINAL chihuahua!
> 
> *Last I checked, "deer" chihuahuas have the same health problems "apple" chihuahuas have. Fail, author, fail.*
> 
> Beautiful deer chihuahuaMore and more folks are beginning to catch on that the deer chihuahua makes an excellent companion animal, with none of the snippy-ness associated with the runt chihuahuas of the AKC.
> 
> *Does this person have ANY idea what they are talking about? It's like they are saying "all boys are messy" or "every blue eyed individual is prone to farting more often". REALLY? Have they ever even HEARD of an empirical argument (ya know...one with facts, reason, and research behind it)?*
> 
> Deer chihuahuas are being added to families with small children, something that most AKC breeders of Chihuahuas would discourage because of the tendancy to bite when handled.
> 
> *It's actually discouraged for families with small children to avoid adding a very small chihuahua due to the fact that it is easy for the CHILD TO INJURE THE DOG, not the other way around. Kids can and do handle and learn to handle dogs appropriately.*
> 
> Sometime in the future, we may see the AKC adopt the deer chihuahua as another breed, which would be accepted to most owners of this precious dog from the Ancient Mayans. Perhaps it could be called the Techichi, like the ancients called it.
> 
> Whatever the outcome, the fierce loyalty of owners of the deer chihuahua guarantee that this smart, fun loving Chihuahua will have a bright future!
> .
> *It won't happen. But the author can dream I guess...maybe they were drinking when they wrote this article? Again, I sense BYB trying to sell gigantic dogs here, nothing else.*


Well...lol...there's what I have to say about that!


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## Angalla

There is no such thing as a "Deerhead" chihuahua.
As ExoticChi's said, it's someone trying to make their badly bred dog appear to be desirable & therefore marketed at an inflated price
Having been out of the breed for a while I'm saddened to see how it's deteriorating, not only in type, but colouration too.
I'm going to sound very old here.. but back in my day there were no Papillon coloured Chi's (until the 80's at least when they started creeping in) nor these merles I've seen lately.
Some unscrupulous cross breeding has been going on & they've sneaked into the breed & sadly aren't doing it any favours


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## Brodysmom

I agree with Kristi. To me the article smacks of a backyard breeder trying to justify why their long legged deer headed chi's should be prized above the 'standard' AKC Chi's.  

There is 'extreme' on both sides... some deerhead chi's barely resemble the breed at all with their long snouts and elongated skulls. And some apple head chi's are so domed that they have skull abnormalities and no room for teeth and are quite unhealthy. I think that the healthiest dog lies somewhere in between.


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## glyndwr

lol I`l go back on and try and find it again to see who wrote it ..


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## flippedstars

I watched this fascinating program the other day on the domestication of dogs and how it is done. Over in Russia they did an accelerated study with silver foxes, where they selected for tameness, and also bred aggressive to aggressive. In as little as one generation the temperaments of the foxes were either more aggressive or more friendly/tame. Within 3 generations you could get a fox that would viciously attack or one that wagged its tail and jumped around like a dog at the sight of humans. It is the same of dogs, chihuahuas, really...you have to select for tameness when breeding, or you get ill-temperamented dogs, deer OR apple headed, it has nothing to do with the physical makeup of the dog and everything to do with the selection for tameness.


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## glyndwr

Found the link here it is.
How to recognize a Deer Chihuahua | eHow.com
Looks like its an american site, going on the comments underneath,


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## flippedstars

I think she's a crackjob TBH lol, but it was good for a laugh!


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## flippedstars

LOL in the comments section she outlines that she breeds chihuahuas:

Dearest Suzi, I do not breed toy fox terriers, I breed chihuahuas. Sometimes the dogs come out tiny, sometimes they come out deer. They are 100% chihuahua. You make the common mistake of many, by assuming there is only one type. Just as there are long and short legged Jack Russels, or smooth or wire-coated fox terriers, there are variances within breeds. A new breed is created when an unusual pup comes from an established litter and the new type becomes beloved by the masses. I'm sure there are plenty of deer chihuahua owners that would love to argue with you about your decision to change the breed of their dog for them!

Read more: Comments on How to recognize a Deer Chihuahua | eHow.com Comments on How to recognize a Deer Chihuahua | eHow.com


Geez lady, lmao.


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## Yoshismom

In my opinion, who ever wrote this is someone who is breeding Deer head chihuahuas and wrote this to help their efforts. Anyone can write and article. Rat Terriers are recognized by AKC American Kennel Club - Rat Terrier

Interesting article though. thanks for sharing


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## glyndwr

Yoshismom said:


> In my opinion, who ever wrote this is someone who is breeding Deer head chihuahuas and wrote this to help their efforts. Anyone can write and article. Rat Terriers are recognized by AKC American Kennel Club - Rat Terrier
> 
> Interesting article though. thanks for sharing


Your welcome, i too thought it was interesting, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but iv seen a shift in what people are doing in breeding also, 20 odd years ago when i was breeding toy poodles nobody wanted the runt, Runt as in the smallest in the litter, in fact my price was always reduced to sell them, now breeding my Shih Tzu bitches first thing the buyer asks" is the smallest one still available,"!! not called runts now , called the smallest in the litter !! and guarenteed its breeders trying to buy them, as with this breed their trying to breed smaller and smaller, shame , I sell none to breeders knowingly, 

my little sweethearts


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## Eclipsica

They lose credibility with saying chihuahuas are possibly descended from foxes. 
Foxes are not canines and cannot cross breed with them.


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## KittyD

They are talking about the Fennec fox and it has long been speculated that the Chi was descended from them.


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## cprcheetah

Interesting article....and Glyndwr love your babies, they are so adorable. One of my friends raises/shows/breeds Shih Tzus and I just love seeing them.


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## ShilohAcres

Just an FYI....the AKC itself does NOT set the standard for the Chihuahua. That is the responsibility of the parent club, namely the Chihuahua Club of America. Over the years, the standard has been updated many times. The latest update allows showing of a dog with one or two missing teeth. Why? Because folks are not taking care of the teeth properly. If you brush your Chihuahuas teeth every few days with a mixture of 1 part H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) and 3 parts water, teeth will stay healthy and not fall out (a baby electric toothbrush works great). The latest breed standard update also disallows blue eyes in Chihuahuas. However, the genetics for blue eyes comes automatically with the blue gene. Blue Chihuahuas are not disallowed. Silly, I know.

As for heads, I have copies of the Los Chihuahuas magazine from back into the mid-1970's. The heads on our breed were more deer-like than they are today. Same thing with size. The Chihuahuas in the 70's were considerably larger than they are today and although I haven't found a copy, I'm told that the standard back then was for a maximum of 8 lbs.

The problem I see with breeders going smaller and smaller is two-fold. One: pet buyers are wanting smaller and smaller dogs...purse babies....and breeders are working to accommodate them. Two: dogs shown in the ring are typically what the breeders start breeding for. They are not breeding to the standard but rather what the judges are putting up at any point in time. Very sad.

I am totally opposed to updating the standard because either people can't take good care of their animals or get caught up in the fashion du jour. We need to focus on the basics of good structure and temperament first, then add the head (if desired) and then for consistency in size & health of our litters.


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## ~*Jessie*~

Like Flippedstars said about her Laurel, the only aggressive chihuahua I've ever had was a "deer head." We had to rehome our first chihuahua, Madison, due to his aggression and nastiness towards Rylie and Chloe. 

Of course, any dog can be aggressive regardless of head shape. The author of this "article" obviously is spewing false information that she made up to promote the breeding of non-standard chihuahuas.

From my experience, most show breeders are breeding and showing larger (4-6lb) chihuahuas. Rylie and Emma are both spayed pets for this reason. They're just too small, and no responsible breeder would ever breed them because of their small size.


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## flippedstars

ShilohAcres said:


> Just an FYI....the AKC itself does NOT set the standard for the Chihuahua. That is the responsibility of the parent club, namely the Chihuahua Club of America. Over the years, the standard has been updated many times. The latest update allows showing of a dog with one or two missing teeth. Why? Because folks are not taking care of the teeth properly. If you brush your Chihuahuas teeth every few days with a mixture of 1 part H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) and 3 parts water, teeth will stay healthy and not fall out (a baby electric toothbrush works great). The latest breed standard update also disallows blue eyes in Chihuahuas. However, the genetics for blue eyes comes automatically with the blue gene. Blue Chihuahuas are not disallowed. Silly, I know.
> 
> As for heads, I have copies of the Los Chihuahuas magazine from back into the mid-1970's. The heads on our breed were more deer-like than they are today. Same thing with size. The Chihuahuas in the 70's were considerably larger than they are today and although I haven't found a copy, I'm told that the standard back then was for a maximum of 8 lbs.
> 
> The problem I see with breeders going smaller and smaller is two-fold. One: pet buyers are wanting smaller and smaller dogs...purse babies....and breeders are working to accommodate them. Two: dogs shown in the ring are typically what the breeders start breeding for. They are not breeding to the standard but rather what the judges are putting up at any point in time. Very sad.
> 
> I am totally opposed to updating the standard because either people can't take good care of their animals or get caught up in the fashion du jour. We need to focus on the basics of good structure and temperament first, then add the head (if desired) and then for consistency in size & health of our litters.


I totally agree w/ you here Susan. Well, LOL, except you know I like the "heads". That being said my pet Oakley probably has one of the nicest, most correct heads I have seen if you are purely reading the standard, and going from there. It is not overdone, the muzzle is not too short, she has an excellent bite, pearly white teeth (I brush!) ... but like you said, she simply wouldn't win in the show ring even if she had the world's most correct and fabulous body (which...she doesn't). That's saying something.

Even though the "head" was more deer like 40 years ago, it was still distinct, I would say. There was still doming and a defined stop, but muzzles look like they were longer, and obviously with fewer tooth problems. It doesn't seem the head was ever accepted as flattish or plain, ... 

A fabulous "visual" of the breed's development over the years can be found here, for anyone interested in reviewing it: Vintage chihuahua photos pg 1... there are quite a few pages of Chihuahuas along the years (keep clicking "next page" to see more). It is certainly true and obvious that what is winning, at least, has changed, as has size so to speak, but not as drastically as this author insinuates, and type does not indicate temperament.


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## Eclipsica

It does sadden me when dog breeds are changed in ways that are detrimental to their health. Take dachshunds for example. That breed has been ruined IHO going by older pictures of the breed. 

When it comes to chihuahuas, one feature I do not like being developed is a so called brachycephalic face. 
OK, actually I hate it in all dogs and I think people should stop breeding them. 
I recall someone telling me that their Boston terriers ended up having a hole cut into their throats because they could no longer breath due to their brachycephalic faces.
So I would prefer the so called deer head in a chi because it seems healthier for breathing. 
I think if your dog needs a hole in the throat to breathe, there's some something seriously wrong with the breeding that got the dog there.


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## flippedstars

Eclipsica said:


> It does sadden me when dog breeds are changed in ways that are detrimental to their health. Take dachshunds for example. That breed has been ruined IHO going by older pictures of the breed.
> 
> When it comes to chihuahuas, one feature I do not like being developed is a so called brachycephalic face.
> OK, actually I hate it in all dogs and I think people should stop breeding them.
> I recall someone telling me that their Boston terriers ended up having a hole cut into their throats because they could no longer breath due to their brachycephalic faces.
> So I would prefer the so called deer head in a chi because it seems healthier for breathing.
> I think if your dog needs a hole in the throat to breathe, there's some something seriously wrong with the breeding that got the dog there.


My so called "brachycephalic" apple headed chi has absolutely no problems breathing, and actually has less reverse sneezing issues than my two with the so called 'deer-head'. I don't forsee Asia having any trouble either, and she has a nice short muzzle.

I think people just need to realize there is no 'rule of thumb' with Chihuahuas...get the dog checked by a vet before you buy it, don't make generalizations about them, because different dogs have different problems.


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## glyndwr

Eclipsica said:


> It does sadden me when dog breeds are changed in ways that are detrimental to their health. Take dachshunds for example. That breed has been ruined IHO going by older pictures of the breed.
> 
> When it comes to chihuahuas, one feature I do not like being developed is a so called brachycephalic face.
> OK, actually I hate it in all dogs and I think people should stop breeding them.
> I recall someone telling me that their Boston terriers ended up having a hole cut into their throats because they could no longer breath due to their brachycephalic faces.
> So I would prefer the so called deer head in a chi because it seems healthier for breathing.
> I think if your dog needs a hole in the throat to breathe, there's some something seriously wrong with the breeding that got the dog there.



Yes i agree with you, whilst iv had Chi`s in my family since i was a tot, to many years to mention, lol !! my parents always had them at home, they always had that snorting as if they couldnt get there breath, i use to hate it as there was nothing we could do , the vet use to say " just stroke there throat or nose it will ease it, my last little Chi was the same, now Glyns come along who is the "so called Deerhead" and nothing at all none of the snorting or the stress for him that goes along with it, and theres a mum not far from me with 2 little beautys and they also are snort free, our vet said that in general they are far healthier, thats not to say in the future i wouldnt get one again as i love all Chi`s but i would be far more aware of what to look for, My Shih`s also dont snort but a lady i know has just had a beautifulll pup but has the flatest face iv seen on a Shih, and its been rushed in twice already having problems breathing, and when its 12 months she tells me it has to have an op to help it, why do people breed them like this, its such a shame for the dog, .


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## Yoshismom

My "deerhead" does the snort thing all the time, my "applehead" hardly ever does it, LOL! I guess that just shows that it must depend on the Chi itself and not the length of the nose


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## HollieC

glyndwr said:


> Coppied off google
> 
> First of all- let me emphasize that the AKC doesn't recognize our beloved deer Chihuahuas. In fact, many lovers of Chihuahuas have a hard time deciding whether there ARE types of Chihuahuas. You will get two arguments- Yes and NO.
> The NO's state categorically that any reputable seller will sell you a standard dog and should not charge additional for Deer, Apple/Dome heads, Teacup as there is no such thing. However, by simply admitting that you can breed for these differences, you admit to a TYPE of Chihuahua.
> The excuse is that the AKC doesn't recognize them, however, there are MANY popular breeds that the AKC doesn't recognize at all, such as Rat Terriers, Jack Russels, etc.
> .


What are they talking about the AKC does recognise the Jack Russell terrier, the American Russell Terrier and the Rat Terrier as registered breeds.


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## Ivy's mom

Isn't it funny..I was watching Dogs101 the other day, and they mentioned that Chi's have VERY VERY little Heath issues compared to other dogs. They said they tend to be a very healthy breed. My girls have never had any issues. This person sounds like a nut!


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## tricializ

flippedstars said:


> LOL sounds like the person that wrote it doesn't know what they are talking about. My nasty-temperament-ed dog is a so-called "deer" chihuahua. My "appleheads" are all fabulous, loving, non-biting, sweet, sound pets.
> 
> And, the breed is not getting "smaller and smaller", the standard has always stated that 2-6 lbs is the weight allowed for a chihuahua, with 4-6 lbs preferred in show and breeding stock.


As usual, agree completely. My deer chi is the most emo of the bunch.


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## HollieC

The disturbing thing is the effect this sales dogma is having on society. People recognise my terrier-chi mongrels as chihuahuas, and look at Eva who is a conscientiously bred standard chihuahua and say "what breed is that one" (Feo is 10 lbs, and Nap has NO stop whatsoever). Some people say, "oh its because the girl one is a Teacup chihuahua and the big ones Dear chihuahuas....I know I have a teacup chihuahua"...or something like that...at which point I just want to bang my head against a brick wall.

On the subject of health- The Kennel Club has reviewed all the breed standards over the past 2 years and published updated versions. They have identified which breeds have health problems and put them on a list called "breedwatch". 

For example here is an unhealthy breed:

The Kennel Club

Here is the sc chihuahua, they are a healthy breed and have no problems identified as widepred or endemic in the breed. (Lc is the same)

The Kennel Club)


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## catz4m8z

I havent noticed a difference in my applehead and deerhead Chi's. They are both prone to handbag fights, occassional fits of grumpiness but both love to cuddle up and stick together!
Frankly I think in any breed the less extreme (or breed standard) pps are going to be healthier and better looking IMO. Both of mine are larger and while they have rounded skulls they arent massively so.


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## Ozzy's mommy

> Deer chihuahuas are being added to families with small children, something that most AKC breeders of Chihuahuas would discourage because of the tendancy to bite when handled.



I have a 14 week old chi puppy, he's not a deerhead mind you but does the shape of their head really change the attitude that much?, and I have 3 kids (7,4,2) they do wonderful with him and he's awesome with them. He has never even got mad or tried to bite them but my hubby, on the other hand, Ozzy will try and pretty much kill. He hates him right to his core, if my hubby even goes close to him Ozzy freaks, but we're working on that.


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## flippedstars

Ozzy's mommy said:


> I have a 14 week old chi puppy, he's not a deerhead mind you but does the shape of their head really change the attitude that much?, and I have 3 kids (7,4,2) they do wonderful with him and he's awesome with them. He has never even got mad or tried to bite them but my hubby, on the other hand, Ozzy will try and pretty much kill. He hates him right to his core, if my hubby even goes close to him Ozzy freaks, but we're working on that.


No head shape doesn't change temperament, breeding does. The lady just wants to sell her poorly bred chihuahuas for more, thus why she wrote the article. The whole thing's a joke really


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## LostLakeLua

One thing that should be clarified is that dear type or apple type is NOT based on snout length. People are just used to the deer heads having longer noses. 

Purely based on aesthetics, I think that the APPLE head chihuahua with a LONG snout is the most adorable. I don't like snub nosed faces; but I also don't like the deer shaped SKULL. 

I do think some people go overboard defending the AKC; nothings WRONG with it but a lot of people have trouble admitting that the standard is just that; an opinion that got documented. It doesn't meant he dog is healthier. Doesn't mean the dog is better bred. Doesn't really mean anything other than "the dog looks like these guidelines." I think it's GREAT that people like to show their dog, and are involved that way; and want to have a dog that fits a description. But that's all it is.


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## intuition

While I don't agree with the deer head crap the post is talking about. I do acknowledge the changes over the years of what an "acceptable" chi or whats "wanted" in the show circuit. 

I worry mostly about the short nose, and how much shorter it's getting over the years. (many many years) and am concerned about getting tooo short, or snub nosed in the years to come. Now saying that I do prefer a shorter nose, compared to the "deer head" type longer nose. but I've seen some incredibly short ones that just don't feel/look right to me. I mean they are still adorable! I know that the shorter muzzle is more preferred in the ring, i just wonder how short is going to be short enough. 

My disclaimer is, I have a floppy eared pure chi, i obviously am not showing, i've just been noticing a trend of shorter and shorter muzzles. I just don't want to see in 30 years a shih tzuh type nose on our adorable chi's! 

also to those that show and follow the circuit has their been any long snouted kids that have won anything lately? thats just me being curious


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## Chihuahuasloveme

omg this article is ridiculous i can't even comment lol


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## mymicody

I have two chis and my deer head one is the aggressive one. 

ok.. wait a minute.. as I'm typing this I'm thinking... can you have a deer head and a non deer head in the same liter? 

Cause my guys are SUPPOSED to be brothers from the same liter.. now I'm going hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


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## intuition

I think that the "deer head" type right now can pop up in litter's as throwbacks. the same way 2 6lb poms can produce an 11-15 lb baby ( when its grown up weight of course) 

well i have nothing to back that up, but i'd imagine that's how it goes. and why you have litter mates with different head types. Or one of the parents were more 'deer' then 'Apple'


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## mymicody

intuition said:


> I think that the "deer head" type right now can pop up in litter's as throwbacks. the same way 2 6lb poms can produce an 11-15 lb baby ( when its grown up weight of course)
> 
> well i have nothing to back that up, but i'd imagine that's how it goes. and why you have litter mates with different head types. Or one of the parents were more 'deer' then 'Apple'


Sure is something to make you go "hmmmmmmmmm" 

Mine aren't pure chihuahua either.. so that could make a difference. Mom was a chihuahua and dad was a pug.


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