# Probiotic recs



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Hello all! 

Toby's been having another lovely bout of diarrhea. We went to the vet and, after some testing, he was diagnosed with IBS and chronic colitis. After the vet reviewed all his history with these issues, the test results, and did an exam, he basically said that Toby is going to most likely be dealing with digestive issues sporadically forever. He put him on metrozindale and probiotics to at least help with this bout. 

Anyhow, I've decided that since he is likely going to be struggling with this for a long time, a daily probiotic is a good idea to help prevent future episodes. Until now, we've been using forti-flora by purina, which is what the vet recommended. What do you all recommend for a probiotic to be used daily? Is the forti-flora okay? Or should I look for something else? Where's the best place to get probiotics for Toby? The vet is awfully expensive to buy from if he's going to be on it for the foreseeable future. 

Thanks in advance. Toby's doing better now that he's been on the meds since Friday, and I want to keep it that way!!!

Also, he's getting the surgery on his teeth this month, but the vet wants to make sure he's feeling 100% first. So I'm sure I will be posting my terrified rants soon. 

Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

I have one called iFlora Digestion Formula by Pro Pets that Karen recommended, but she now uses a different one that I can't remember the name of. There is a thread between us probably no more than 6 months ago about probiotics that gives the names of both and I think a link to each. I'm sorry Toby is dealing with this.


----------



## Rach_Honey (Jan 13, 2012)

Aw sorry to hear this Ash  poor Toby baby. I use an English brand of probiotic so won't be a lot of use there x


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## intent2smile (Dec 4, 2011)

I have no suggestions but Jaxx and I are sending Toby tons of love and good thoughts!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Thanks guys. He's okay right now, but it's a shame that my sweetie is having to deal with this. 

Tina, I will look up that thread. I will admit I was bad and didn't do a search before posting lol. Thanks! Also, where do you buy the probiotic you use?


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Hi Ash! Sorry to hear about Toby, poor guy. I hope his diarrhea clears up quickly for ya. When gino was sick and on all kinds of meds for his autoimmune disease, I went to an extremely well know holistic vet dr Karen Becker and she put him on thia digestive enzyme. It worked wonders for him. A little bit goes a long way and it is stored in the fridge. Maybe u can do a google search for more reviews. This vet only carried the most natural and organic products too. Xox!
http://www.thewholisticpet.com/prod...digestive-support/wholistic-digest-alltm.html

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Huly (Mar 5, 2012)

Here are two I really like:

Amazon.com: Wholistic Pet Acidophilus 4oz Natural and Organic Probiotic Supplement: Pet Supplies







Coconut Oil-
The Health Benefits Of Coconut Oil | Dogs Naturally Magazine

Digestion
Improves digestion and nutrient absorption
Aids healing of digestive disorders like inflammatory bowel syndrome and colitis
Reduces or eliminates bad breath in dogs
Aids in elimination of hairballs and coughing

Tripe-
The Stink On Tripe | Dogs Naturally Magazine
Not only is tripe loaded with digestive enzymes and probiotics, it has the perfect ratio of calcium to phosphorus – 1:1. Green tripe also contains the essential fatty acids, Linoleic and Linolenic, in their recommended proportions. It can also be served in nice, large rubbery chunks which will provide your dog with good exercise and better dental health.

Good Reads-
Natural Treatment for IBS in Dogs
Inflammatory Bowel Disease In Pets
Dog Colitis
Carrageenan Just Don’t Do It | Dogs Naturally Magazine


----------



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Thanks guys! I will look at your suggestions today and let you know if I have questions. He's okay, he was sick last week. I just want to prevent another episode!

Christie, thanks for those resources. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Oh, Ash, I would have done it for you, but I don't know how to post links. I did it one time, but don't trust I could do it again which is why I just explained to you where to find it. I really need to learn how to do that.


----------



## Huly (Mar 5, 2012)

Zorana1125 said:


> Hi Ash! Sorry to hear about Toby, poor guy. I hope his diarrhea clears up quickly for ya. When gino was sick and on all kinds of meds for his autoimmune disease, I went to an extremely well know holistic vet dr Karen Becker and she put him on thia digestive enzyme. It worked wonders for him. A little bit goes a long way and it is stored in the fridge. Maybe u can do a google search for more reviews. This vet only carried the most natural and organic products too. Xox!
> The Wholistic Pet
> 
> Kim at DogGone Natural always gives my kids the Wholistic Pet Line. It works well. Gibbs had an issue a few years back with yeast on his feet and the Acidopholis (sp) worked perfect!
> ...





pupluv168 said:


> Thanks guys! I will look at your suggestions today and let you know if I have questions. He's okay, he was sick last week. I just want to prevent another episode!
> 
> Christie, thanks for those resources.
> 
> ...


NP at all hope some of it helps! 



lulu'smom said:


> Oh, Ash, I would have done it for you, but I don't know how to post links. I did it one time, but don't trust I could do it again which is why I just explained to you where to find it. I really need to learn how to do that.


LOL Here is a simple way 
LEFT Click the link you are trying to copy in the box (where you would type the URL) Once it is highlighted RIGHT click select copy then paste in the thread. I always hot enter after pasting just to make sure it show up hyperlinked


----------



## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Huly said:


> LOL Here is a simple way
> LEFT Click the link you are trying to copy in the box (where you would type the URL) Once it is highlighted RIGHT click select copy then paste in the thread. I always hot enter after pasting just to make sure it show up hyperlinked


Thank you girl!! I'll write that down and put by my computer so I can remember.


----------



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

And on top of everything, he's having his surgery on Friday. My worry level is now way past 100%!


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## woodard2009 (Aug 4, 2010)

Forti-flora--this topic happened a while back and there was a big discussion on the animal digest used in this stuff. Don't recommend it, but Christie is right on target with the advice she's given. Don't believe everything a vet says.


----------



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

woodard2009 said:


> Forti-flora--this topic happened a while back and there was a big discussion on the animal digest used in this stuff. Don't recommend it, but Christie is right on target with the advice she's given. Don't believe everything a vet says.


Thanks Lisa! 

I saw that this afternoon when I was searching this afternoon. His surgery is on Friday, so I want to have the probiotics by then so I can start him as soon as he's recovered. But it won't be Forti-flora.


----------



## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Oh, girl. I can SO relate!

Did you find the thread Tina referenced? 

A few things I can advise (although you are likely FAR ahead of me on all of this) is no bullies or treats. Pieces of food only as treats. Try and identify if certain protein sources or ingredients are triggers. You will want to carefully manage time between any antibiotics and probiotics. The antibiotics will destroy the probiotics. 

I am so sorry both you, and he, are dealing with this. Sadly, a few of us here really do understand.


----------



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

jesuschick said:


> Oh, girl. I can SO relate!
> 
> Did you find the thread Tina referenced?
> 
> ...


Karen, I haven't seen you around here in a while! I was hoping you'd see this, since I know you've dealt with similar problems with Hope. Thank you for your response. 

No bullies?!? Toby is going to be devastated if I do that. I don't give him treats other than that, and I do cut bullies when he has an episode, but they don't seem to bring episodes on or anything. I've evaluated everything he eats (his food and bullies are the only things he gets) and I couldn't identify anything that definitively correlates to his episodes. However, I did notice that the surf and turf Fromm seems to make it a bit worse, so I am sticking to the game bird and the salmon tunalinni for now. I have to compare ingredients this weekend when I have time to really analyze everything without school and work. 

The vet has him on metronidazole AND probiotics right now... so I'm confused. I get that the antibiotics and probiotics counteract each other, so why would the vet give him both simultaneously? How should I time them (he only has two doses of metro left, tomorrow AM and tomorrow PM)?

This whole thing is overwhelming, and on top of it he is having all of his retained baby teeth removed Friday, which is adding to my stress. I just want to keep him as healthy as possible. 

Thanks again for the support guys! It really means a lot that you all care about Toby and I.


----------



## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Sorry to butt in but ur exactly right, u need to give the probiotic and the abx at different times bc they do counteract each other. Unfortunately abx's wipe out bad bacteria and good bacteria (normal flora) in our gi so the probiotocs put the good bacteria back in! 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Zorana1125 said:


> Sorry to butt in but ur exactly right, u need to give the probiotic and the abx at different times bc they do counteract each other. Unfortunately abx's wipe out bad bacteria and good bacteria (normal flora) in our gi so the probiotocs put the good bacteria back in!
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Okay, so he has one more day of antibiotics left (tomorrow). I don't think I will start the new probiotics until he's recovered from his surgery since that's going to be hard enough. That gives me time to order it and receive it and do more research to set up a plan. Plus, I don't want to rock the boat when he's got sutures in his mouth and is getting over anesthesia. 

Thanks Zorana!


----------



## princess_ella (Jun 4, 2005)

what tests did they do to find out Toby has IBS?


----------



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

princess_ella said:


> what tests did they do to find out Toby has IBS?


IBS is diagnosed after an elimination of other illnesses through testing and a review of his medical records. 

He had: a fecal sample (no bacteria or parasites), blood work (normal), past response to medication and review of his history of this issue. If I choose to, I can opt to get an X-ray or sonogram done to confirm, but the vet said Toby's symptoms really seem like a textbook case. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Huly (Mar 5, 2012)

jesuschick said:


> Oh, girl. I can SO relate!
> 
> Did you find the thread Tina referenced?
> 
> ...


Karen- I have a question is it certain kind of bullies or bones? With different protein bones could it be one more than the other? Or holistic ones vs pet store ones? Just curious as I never thought of that.



pupluv168 said:


> Karen, I haven't seen you around here in a while! I was hoping you'd see this, since I know you've dealt with similar problems with Hope. Thank you for your response.
> 
> No bullies?!? Toby is going to be devastated if I do that. I don't give him treats other than that, and I do cut bullies when he has an episode, but they don't seem to bring episodes on or anything. I've evaluated everything he eats (his food and bullies are the only things he gets) and I couldn't identify anything that definitively correlates to his episodes. However, I did notice that the surf and turf Fromm seems to make it a bit worse, so I am sticking to the game bird and the salmon tunalinni for now. I have to compare ingredients this weekend when I have time to really analyze everything without school and work.
> 
> ...


One thing I would do and not sure how Toby would feel about this LOL is until you get the right probiotic maybe give him a little all natural yogurt (I like organic greek yogurt). My holistic Vet put Sadie on an antibiotic (she hated doing it but felt with the infection and Sadie's age that she needed a high powered antibiotic once) and probiotics at the same time as an antibiotic destroys the good and bad bacteria so she wanted to restore the good bacteria while the antibiotic was killing off the good. She also had me give her yogurt daily. 

I do not want to sound crude but think of it this way Ashley, When a human esp a female goes on an antibiotic they tell you to eat yogurt to keep from getting yeast infections etc as we still need that good bacteria.


----------



## Huly (Mar 5, 2012)

Also have you noticed Toby does better with a certain protein over another? Or does he just have random flare ups?


----------



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Huly said:


> Karen- I have a question is it certain kind of bullies or bones? With different protein bones could it be one more than the other? Or holistic ones vs pet store ones? Just curious as I never thought of that.
> 
> One thing I would do and not sure how Toby would feel about this LOL is until you get the right probiotic maybe give him a little all natural yogurt (I like organic greek yogurt). My holistic Vet put Sadie on an antibiotic (she hated doing it but felt with the infection and Sadie's age that she needed a high powered antibiotic once) and probiotics at the same time as an antibiotic destroys the good and bad bacteria so she wanted to restore the good bacteria while the antibiotic was killing off the good. She also had me give her yogurt daily.
> 
> I do not want to sound crude but think of it this way Ashley, When a human esp a female goes on an antibiotic they tell you to eat yogurt to keep from getting yeast infections etc as we still need that good bacteria.


I don't know how he would like yogurt, but I have some plain greek yogurt I can try. He always wants my yogurt, so I am sure he will love it. 



Huly said:


> Also have you noticed Toby does better with a certain protein over another? Or does he just have random flare ups?


It seems like he does better on duck than anything else.


----------



## Huly (Mar 5, 2012)

Ok Let him lick some off your finger and see how he does.  Huly's favorite is blueberry but he is weird LOL the pups and Huly like plain too. 

Let's get a response from Karen but maybe give these to Toby instead of Bully's?

Best Bully's Duck Feet | Dog Chews & Treats

I know they look gross but my 4 love them! They are soft enough that even Sadie can chew them. 

Also are you going to be up here on 10-6-13? DogGone Natural is having an event and I would love for Kim to meet Toby and see what her take is on him. Any time you come up though we can get you two together.


----------



## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Research hot and cool meats. There may be a correlation between that and his flare-ups. Hot meats can cause inflammation that can cause flare-ups (just guessing). I know for a fact duck is a cool meat. Cool meats reduce inflammation. I find it interesting he doesn't seem to have flare-ups on duck. Lamb and venison are hot meats. Wonder if he has flare-ups on lamb or venison? I just read an article in my Whole Dog Journal entitled "Favorite Remedies Revisited." Two in particular mentioned significant correction of IBS and diarrhea. One was green tripe and the other was a fish powder created 50 years ago originally as a way to save the lives of malnourished infants and starving children. It is literally touted as life-saving and should be because it is screamin' expensive in my book. Here is the link to both sites (thanks to Christie's tutoring. Although the site for the Seacure doesn't explain it nearly as well as the article because they are building their website.

GreenTripe.Com Main Index

Proper Nutrition: Seacure® for Pets 500g


----------



## Huly (Mar 5, 2012)

lulu'smom said:


> Research hot and cool meats. There may be a correlation between that and his flare-ups. Hot meats can cause inflammation that can cause flare-ups (just guessing). I know for a fact duck is a cool meat. Cool meats reduce inflammation. I find it interesting he doesn't seem to have flare-ups on duck. Lamb and venison are hot meats. Wonder if he has flare-ups on lamb or venison? I just read an article in my Whole Dog Journal entitled "Favorite Remedies Revisited." Two in particular mentioned significant correction of IBS and diarrhea. One was green tripe and the other was a fish powder created 50 years ago originally as a way to save the lives of malnourished infants and starving children. It is literally touted as life-saving and should be because it is screamin' expensive in my book. Here is the link to both sites (thanks to Christie's tutoring. Although the site for the Seacure doesn't explain it nearly as well as the article because they are building their website.
> 
> GreenTripe.Com Main Index
> 
> Proper Nutrition: Seacure® for Pets 500g


That is a good point and great articles 

(I knew you could do it  )


----------



## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

Huly said:


> (I knew you could do it  )


Hehehe!


----------



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Interesting about the hot and cool meats. I will have to look into that. When he was on ZP he was horribly ill. So sick I had to take him off. And it is lamb and venison. Hmmmm, that's definitely something to consider. 

Christie, I won't be back in DC for a while. Although if you know ANYONE in the area looking for a legal intern, let me know. I'm desperate to find something in the DC area. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Huly (Mar 5, 2012)

pupluv168 said:


> Interesting about the hot and cool meats. I will have to look into that. When he was on ZP he was horribly ill. So sick I had to take him off. And it is lamb and venison. Hmmmm, that's definitely something to consider.
> 
> Christie, I won't be back in DC for a while. Although if you know ANYONE in the area looking for a legal intern, let me know. I'm desperate to find something in the DC area.
> 
> ...


Ok sounds good! I will ask around. I have to go see Kim in the next few days so I will ask her too. She rocks!


----------



## lulu'smom (Jan 4, 2012)

I know it's not so easy as saying all dogs with IBS or colitis should eat cool meats because Karen's Hope suffers from this and does well on ZP, but it is definitely something to research and see if you see a pattern that applies to Toby. Each dog is individual which is what sometimes drives us nuts because diagnosing is not so black and white. lol


----------



## Huly (Mar 5, 2012)

lulu'smom said:


> I know it's not so easy as saying all dogs with IBS or colitis should eat cool meats because Karen's Hope suffers from this and does well on ZP, but it is definitely something to research and see if you see a pattern that applies to Toby. Each dog is individual which is what sometimes drives us nuts because diagnosing is not so black and white. lol


I agree 100% There is no cut and dry answer! My vet makes me keep journals (esp on Huly) on how he reacts to everything and what the enviroment is that day too. It does help narrow stuff down


----------



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Absolutely. Just one more thing to research and investigate. I am buying the Wholistic Pet probiotic that you recommended, Christie. Do you think it's okay to buy from amazon?


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Huly (Mar 5, 2012)

pupluv168 said:


> Absolutely. Just one more thing to research and investigate. I am buying the Wholistic Pet probiotic that you recommended, Christie. Do you think it's okay to buy from amazon?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com App


Yes 

I buy Huly's mushrooms from amazon as it is cheaper 

Also I have an email into Kim to see what she thinks


----------



## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Huly said:


> Yes
> 
> I buy Huly's mushrooms from amazon as it is cheaper
> 
> Also I have an email into Kim to see what she thinks


Thank you so much Christie! I really appreciate the help. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------

