# How to test for a BYB comparison chart.



## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

A comparison between a good breeder and a BYB might help some people  

http://www.dog-play.com/breedercomparison.htm


----------



## goldie (Jun 22, 2005)

that is a great list & saw traits of Tico's breeder in both columns. 

I thought I asked the breeder I got Tico from a ton of questions before & during his sale, and still ended up with issues. I'll probably never be able to buy another puppy because I will be sooo overly cautious of where it's coming from!


----------



## Miellie (Sep 5, 2005)

Miellie's breeder also has traits in both columns. I can't decide if she's a BYB or not. 

After reading that list I may be classified as BYB if I breed Miellie! :shock:


----------



## stefanie_farrell (Jan 11, 2005)

yeh lol scary!


----------



## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

The page is gone now :?


----------



## dlambertz (Nov 13, 2005)

interesting...zoey came from a breeder that advertised in the paper but didn't fit much more of the criteria for a byb... bambi's breeder was definitely backyard i knew that when i bought but wanted to save her from her situation...she had a double herinia and the breeder wasn't willing to pay for the surgery ***slaps forehead***
lily and mia both come from reponisible breeders. they both show their dogs and all have ch lines in their pedigrees. they both had health guarantees and mia's is even more extensive than most. 

for those that can't find the link it was just moved and i did a search and located it 
http://dogplay.com/GettingDog/breedercomparison.htm


----------



## decjewel (Jun 17, 2006)

i'm a newbie so whats a byb?


----------



## hestersu (Jun 18, 2006)

BYB - back yard breeder


----------



## hestersu (Jun 18, 2006)

Well, I've read the list and would say that both breeders we dealt with qualify on the whole as BYB. Shiloh's breeder definitely qualified though I would say that she was very concerned about the genetics and is involved in the show circuit. Sadie's breeder had many traits of both but I would consider her to be a BYB. I've noticed a few things about Sadie that would concern me if she were ever to be bred, but that will not happen - for either dog. My daughter and I do not want breed either girl and we will have them spayed at the appropriate time. Shiloh is now 4 months old. I have an appt for her to be evaluated and get information on her surgery. The spay will happen hopefully before her first cycle. My vet has already told me we need to do this for long term health reasons. 

Sadie on the other hand may be a problem. She really needs to gain more weight and be a little bigger. We still have 2 months to go, so hopefully this will happen. 

I guess I have mixed emotions about BYBs. I absolutely can't stand puppy mills, but I also feel there are many responsible people out there that do care about their respective breeds and care about their animals. Just because they don't show doesn't make their dog any less of a good dog. I don't think its fair to brand all part time breeders as bad.


----------



## tailwagging (Oct 21, 2005)

I disagree with some of this

"Into" Dogs (shows, training, clubs, etc.)

Not all good breeders are into showing etc. show is used as a TOOL to breeding better.

Belongs to dog clubs and organizations

Same not ALL good breeders belong to clubs. I , my self belong to 3 breed clubs but that because I want to not that I NEED to.

Rarely breeds as he does not use dog breeding as a business and strives for quality, not quantity

If you have the knowledge, space, help and time it is not wrong to breed for good quality dog often. It is not how much you breed it is WHY you breed.

Rarely repeats a breeding

OH SO WRONG!! If you got a good combo or feel that the dogs are very well suited for each other, there is nothing wrong with repeating the breedings.

Breeds only dogs over 2 years old, and a limited number of times

In some breeds yes but some it is best to breed just a bit younger before the pelvic bones get to hard to flex for the first time. Each dog is an individuals and the number of breeding should be based off of that.

Mate choice could be anywhere in the country (almost never breeds his own males to his own females)

WRONG while some may not want several males running around their house they may choose to go out side their kennel to breed. If you have a male that compliments you female then it is safer to breed to your own. Not just due to faults natives on brucellosis (in which all dogs would have to be put down in most states) but if you own the male you know personally his growth, health history and strong and weak points.

Does all genetic testing and will provide proof; does not breed animals with genetic defects or which are carriers of defects

If you know by DNA testing that your dog is a Carry or Affected then you breed only to DNA Clears. Someone here dose NOT understand the DNA genetics of clear/carry and affected.

Puppies are sold from waiting list created before breeding even takes place

Not always so. If you are breeding to improve your own line then that is the reason to do the breeding. You should how ever be prepared to keep the offspring as long as it takes to find the good homes.

Pet-quality pups generally cost $500-600+ (show-quality costs more)
Nope not everyone wants/needs that kind of money. I sell for $300.00 no matter if it is show or not.
This is my hobby not a money making thing.
Sells only to buyers with disposable income (AKC reports it costs $1327 per year to properly care for a dog)

This unfair who is to say what disposable income amounts to? I know many homes that would cut off their right hand before not getting their pet what it needs. And I know of billionaires I wouldn’t want my dog to live with example Paris. 

Waits for buyers who offer lifelong homes (Knows that only 30 percent of all dogs stay in one home throughout their lives)

And yet there is no guarantees, death, divorce……. To do this you would keep them all your self. Just to be SURE. Some young people are more responsible the old shcoolers. Some renters would live in their car before giving up their pet. Low income address above. So they have other pets!! Some breeds of dog would rather live out side. It must on individual bases.

Understands dogs are "pack" animals; sells pets only to buyers wanting to make pup an indoor dog and part of the family

This depends on the breed. Some working, herd and guardian breeds would rather be out doors.

Other then these, I agree


----------



## Dixie's mom (Jan 3, 2007)

Is it good or bad if my breeder was in between the lines ?


----------



## ticoti (Oct 20, 2007)

Great list! 

Yes, good breeders are “into” dogs, they are always wanting to learn more, always wanting to connect with the dog community, so they can find good lines for their breeding program (they are seeking the best of the best in their breeding programs and this means getting out and about, showing, training, talking to other good breeders, reading up about their breed) and they can support and be a part of the dog community at large. Dog clubs help further the sport and passion we all have for pure bred dogs. Many dog clubs fund research that helps canines live longer happier healthier lives. They help fund genetic tests and genetic research. They are also involved in education to the public about their breed and dogs in general. They may also be called on in time of legislative need, as a voice for their breed. Good dog breeders will be highly involved in dog clubs, training, showing, they will be doing something with their dogs! They won’t just be sitting at home, not getting their dogs out and about, and only breeding. That is a clear BYB. 

And yes I agree with not breeding until 2. In the dog world genetic problems can crop up at any age and it very important not to breed too young. There is no great big rush to hurry up and breed. You want to see how the puppy matures out, and then you will need to find a good stud that compliments your female and helps with the faults. You need to health test before breeding. In most breeds you need to do hips, and that can’t even be done until 2 until all growth plates are closed and the dog is mature. In many breeds under 2 years old is still a puppy, they are still maturing mentally and physically. There is still a lot to learn about them before breeding them. 

It is true, good breeders rarely do repeat a breeding. It can happen, but it is not common for a reason. 
BYB’s do all the time, breeding is about convenience to them. 

It is true that good breeders almost never breed to their own males. It just doesn’t happen often. Good breeders really put in a lot of time and effort researching the perfect lines for their females. They look at the health of each dog in the pedigree, longevity, and other important things before breeding. Since they show they are not kennel blind and have some type of an objective measure of their females faults and strengths. With that knowledge they search for the best male to compliment their female. They seek out other good breeders for the best stud for their female. These good breeders have health testing current on their male and know the lines behind their male really well. They stand behind their breedings. Good breeders see what the stud dog has produced in the present and past, and make sure he matches their female for the specific breeding. It is very rare that perfectly matched male lives in the same house with them. To good breeders, more important than how close a stud dog lives is the question is this dog the best match for my female? 

And domestic dogs are man made. Dogs have an instinctual pack mentality, most love to be with their people, putting them outside as lawn ornaments is detrimental to their well being. Mentally and physically. Dogs need more than that. Most desire to be with their people. They enjoy their people. Most people that keep indoor dogs care about their well being more so than individuals that toss their dogs outside. This shows a higher level of care when breeders raise puppies indoors in a family setting and keep their breeding dogs as well loved pets and companions even if they show and work their dogs. The dogs are still a part of the family and well groomed and well taken care of. Very few man made domestic breeds would rather be outdoor pets. And beyond a doubt - any breeder that keeps Chihuahuas outside is a BYB.


----------



## ElectricBlueWings (Jun 5, 2009)

The place Isis is from is close to being a BYB.


----------



## lilbabyvenus (Feb 8, 2009)

I'm a little confused. I understand most of them, but the first one says that a trait of a backyard breeder is someone who keeps their dog's as pets? Instead of showing them? That doesn't make any sense to me. I didn't know you had to show your dog to be a reputable breeder. I understand the logic behind it, I really do, and I'm not trying to step on any toes, I'm just trying to understand what's wrong with a pet just being part of your family.


----------



## Jerry'sMom (May 5, 2009)

really old thread... but still a timely question.
Tabitha and Jerry were from a planned breeding by a reputable breeder.


----------



## *Chloe* (Feb 6, 2006)

lilbabyvenus said:


> I'm a little confused. I understand most of them, but the first one says that a trait of a backyard breeder is someone who keeps their dog's as pets? Instead of showing them? That doesn't make any sense to me. I didn't know you had to show your dog to be a reputable breeder. I understand the logic behind it, I really do, and I'm not trying to step on any toes, I'm just trying to understand what's wrong with a pet just being part of your family.


well by showing the dogs you are breeding from they are being evaluated by judges against the breed standard and this gives you an idea (if they are doing well in the ring) of how good their conformation is, showing is quite costly with travel all over the country, and i think most people who are willing to invest time and money into their dogs are dedicated to the breed, i show Bentley but he is a a part of my family foremost, theres nothing wrong with a pet being part of your family most pets arent breeding dogs tho, like my Twig she has PL and not at all good conformation but shes the sweetest most precious chi to me and altho she has a the best temperament she not for breeding from


----------



## Jerry'sMom (May 5, 2009)

lilbabyvenus said:


> I'm a little confused. I understand most of them, but the first one says that a trait of a backyard breeder is someone who keeps their dog's as pets? Instead of showing them? That doesn't make any sense to me. I didn't know you had to show your dog to be a reputable breeder. I understand the logic behind it, I really do, and I'm not trying to step on any toes, I'm just trying to understand what's wrong with a pet just being part of your family.


The article says "Into" Dogs (shows, training, clubs, etc.) as opposed to Not "into" dogs (has "pets" around the house) 

If you are going to breed Chihuahuas, then you need to be as knowledgeable as possible about the breed. This knowledge comes from "shows, training, clubs, etc...). It does NOT say you must show your dogs; however, I believe the intent is that a reputable breeder is not breeding "pets". They are breeding dogs from healthy, quality lines so the expectation is healthy puppies, with appropriate temperament, and a good representative of the Breed characteristics as outlined by AKC (KC). Generally speaking, "pet quality dogs" do not exemplify breed standard.


----------



## Jerry'sMom (May 5, 2009)

ElectricBlueWings said:


> Aww.
> The place Isis is from is a BYB.
> But she's gotten transfered to a different home twice.
> She came from one breeder (who I don't even have her website) then went to this breeder.


I know you are in love with Isis. Try not to worry over this--you already have her. Just enjoy your sweet little one. And, next time your family wants to bring home another dog, you know more about what to look for in a breeder. Good for you for being better prepared  Hugs to you and Isis.


----------



## lilbabyvenus (Feb 8, 2009)

*Chloe* said:


> well by showing the dogs you are breeding from they are being evaluated by judges against the breed standard and this gives you an idea (if they are doing well in the ring) of how good their conformation is, showing is quite costly with travel all over the country, and i think most people who are willing to invest time and money into their dogs are dedicated to the breed, i show Bentley but he is a a part of my family foremost, theres nothing wrong with a pet being part of your family most pets arent breeding dogs tho, like my Twig she has PL and not at all good conformation but shes the sweetest most precious chi to me and altho she has a the best temperament she not for breeding from





Jerry'sMom said:


> The article says "Into" Dogs (shows, training, clubs, etc.) as opposed to Not "into" dogs (has "pets" around the house)
> 
> If you are going to breed Chihuahuas, then you need to be as knowledgeable as possible about the breed. This knowledge comes from "shows, training, clubs, etc...). It does NOT say you must show your dogs; however, I believe the intent is that a reputable breeder is not breeding "pets". They are breeding dogs from healthy, quality lines so the expectation is healthy puppies, with appropriate temperament, and a good representative of the Breed characteristics as outlined by AKC (KC). Generally speaking, "pet quality dogs" do not exemplify breed standard.


Ok, well thank you! I just misunderstood how it was worded I guess. That makes more sense now reading it explained by you guys. I just felt bad thinking that a breeder wouldn't keep them as just part of the family lol. So thank you both, very much, for clearing that up for me.


----------



## Jerry'sMom (May 5, 2009)

no problem


----------



## Kioana (Mar 1, 2005)

ticoti said:


> Great list!
> 
> Yes, good breeders are “into” dogs, they are always wanting to learn more, always wanting to connect with the dog community, so they can find good lines for their breeding program (they are seeking the best of the best in their breeding programs and this means getting out and about, showing, training, talking to other good breeders, reading up about their breed) and they can support and be a part of the dog community at large. Dog clubs help further the sport and passion we all have for pure bred dogs. Many dog clubs fund research that helps canines live longer happier healthier lives. They help fund genetic tests and genetic research. They are also involved in education to the public about their breed and dogs in general. They may also be called on in time of legislative need, as a voice for their breed. Good dog breeders will be highly involved in dog clubs, training, showing, they will be doing something with their dogs! They won’t just be sitting at home, not getting their dogs out and about, and only breeding. That is a clear BYB.
> 
> ...



i agree with what you said as well. 

Yes i bred my dogs , no some wasn't akc but some was , i did testing on some and some i didn't . I didn't just sell to make some money i still have contact with 98% of the owners I've sold puppies and adults to. A few have fell threw the cracks but i keep up with the over all well being of my dogs. I maynot be a part of a club but i care a GREAT deal for my pups and breeder/pets, hey if that makes me a BYB then my backyard is a hella good one!:hello1:

Most of my pups was sold before even hitting the ground but some times we had some that stayed a bit longer and we was willing to keep those because we bred them and we knew they didn't ask to be bred. so NOT all people who breed are bad people and looking for money ! that's why i never talked about it here because it's so much hate about it, and name calling . if you could see how much stuff i send home with my pups you wouldn't know the differance between a akc pup and mine, they may have spent 800 but i put more than 800 into that pup and not to mention how much stuff i'd send home upwards to $100 worth of stuff . so hello i'm kioana and i'm a BYB:hello1: LOL


----------

