# nose lenght question



## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

i love my dog but i wish his nose was shorter..even if its just by half an inch. i prob wont judge him as much once he gets here but while hes still not living with me, its easier for me to be more objctive...he doent have a long nose, but i just wish it was shorter. his breeder reassured me his nose should "shorten" as he ages, but how long would that take? He is 7 months old now. i figured, one of you would know bc ive seen some pics of dogs on here who (as puppies) had longer noses but now that theyre older they look nearly perfect. 

and before anyone takes it the wrong way, i dont care if your dog has a long nose. i know that just bc your dog has a longer nose doesnt make them less of a chi, ect, ect, and all that PC stuff. im not trying to hurt your feelings.... im just trying to learn....and please dont lecture me about loving the dog regardless of how he looks and telling me to worry more about his health, ect, bc i made sure his parents were health tested ( so obviously, i do take health seriously).


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## OrchardLane (Aug 30, 2008)

Honestly, since he is 7 months old - he will more than likely have the same nose length as he does now. Chihuahuas usually reach their full skeletal frame size at around 6-8 months. Then it is just filling out after that.

With younger puppies it is common to see them in their growth stages and they will be at different times out of proportion so their noses can seem longer than what they do months later when everything else has caught up.

That being said, while your dog fills out it is possible that his nose may appear or seem shorter but infact it is the same length (just looks better on his face because he filled out).

However, if this is a repeat breeding with your breeder she may be expecting a different growth range but the norm is mentioned above. 

The best thing to do would be measure the nose length and keep track of it.


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## Keeffer (Feb 26, 2008)

The nose will not get shorter lol. But it can LOOK shorter.  A breeder once told me, the head can still grow. So if the head grows and the nose doesn't, then the nose should look shorter. I don't know how long the nose is.. but I think most of the noses are getting too short. The breeder who told me the head can still grow, also told me she thought Keeffer's nose was too long. Other than that he was perfect.. (btw, she was the only breeder who thought Keeffie's nose is too long. I have asked tons of breeders if they liked Keeffer, because I really do, and they all love his head and nose. )


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## KayC (May 3, 2005)

I hope Zoey's nose dosen't get any shorter. If the nose is shorter, is the reverse sneezing worse? My Roxy had a longer nose and she very rarely had the reverse sneeze, Zoey has it quite often.


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## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

thank you all for your great answers  keefer and orchard lane, you taught me something new  and zoey's mom, even though it wasnt exactly the answer i was looking for, the info you shared was interesting


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Chibi's nose grew in length instead of shortened, not by much but I did see a difference from when we got him at 4 months til now. You can see it in before and after pics.


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## OrchardLane (Aug 30, 2008)

Yoshismom said:


> Chibi's nose grew in length instead of shortened, not by much but I did see a difference from when we got him at 4 months til now. You can see it in before and after pics.


That can happen too haha Funny thing about genetics huh?


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## Krista (Dec 29, 2005)

Zoey's Mom said:


> I hope Zoey's nose dosen't get any shorter. If the nose is shorter, is the reverse sneezing worse? My Roxy had a longer nose and she very rarely had the reverse sneeze, Zoey has it quite often.


Yes that is what happens, shorter nose can make reverse sneezing a lot worse, and sometimes can also make them grunt when they breath, and make it harder to breathe. A lot of pugs grunt because their nose has been shortened too much through breeding. I heard as well if they are too short sometimes as they get older, they'll need surgery to remove some of the soft palate to make breathing easier.

I'm not sure how short his nose is already, but you may really not want it shorter. It probably won't get shorter at 7 months old but like others said if his head fills out more it may look shorter.


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## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

Krista said:


> Yes that is what happens, shorter nose can make reverse sneezing a lot worse, and sometimes can also make them grunt when they breath, and make it harder to breathe. A lot of pugs grunt because their nose has been shortened too much through breeding. I heard as well if they are too short sometimes as they get older, they'll need surgery to remove some of the soft palate to make breathing easier.
> 
> I'm not sure how short his nose is already, but you may really not want it shorter. It probably won't get shorter at 7 months old but like others said if his head fills out more it may look shorter.


lol yes i do want it shorter! i LOVE the shorter nosed look--besides, i heard reversed sneezing isnt even a serious health issue ( it suppossedly just sounds weird). And ive never heard about the soft palate thing...i know, his nose isnt even big..but i want it to look like Sara's Zero :love7: 

here is my kid's cute little face :

his nose isnt long by any means..but i want it to be shorter bc that is the look i prefer.

















i was reassured he's going through growing pains and will be a lot better looking as he ages...


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## Krista (Dec 29, 2005)

I think he does look like Zero, he looks great  Yeah reverse sneezing can actually be serious and require surgery, I know of instances personally that it's been needed. Although it's hard to see in those pics exactly how long his nose is, I don't think I'd want it any shorter than that, that's perfect, he looks perfect ^_^ But yeah, I'd say it will probably stay that length, so may as well learn to love it


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## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

Krista said:


> I think he does look like Zero, he looks great  Yeah reverse sneezing can actually be serious and require surgery, I know of instances personally that it's been needed. Although it's hard to see in those pics exactly how long his nose is, I don't think I'd want it any shorter than that, that's perfect, he looks perfect ^_^ But yeah, I'd say it will probably stay that length, so may as well learn to love it


thanks, krista! i dont know if he looks like zero, but im glad you think hes cute, too  of course i'll learn to love him. once i get him, i know i wont be able to judge him anymore bc ill think hes the most wonderful think ever( after my last baby, of course)..that is why im playing "Simon Cowell" now. my last dog had a long nose. i dont need a dog reminding me of her and bringing back memories. she wasnt very well bred but was the love of my life. i want a dog opposite in looks to her in EVERY way..thats big reason why i wont get a female puppy. at first, i didnt even want a chi, again... but theyre the only breed i really like


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

i personally see nothing wrong with your little ones nose at all he looks perfect i think if they are way too short there is sooo many problems that the little chi can have besides having breathing problems they can also have problems with there teeth too 
my gang doesnt have the really short nosed look (although i really love this look too)
oh and i am going to post this pic of raven as i dont think you have seen it before her nose is one of the shortest in my little gang
she was the same age of your little one in those pics and her nose hasnt changed from them i will post more recent pics of her when i take some hopefully tomorrow


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## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

^^ thanks and of course i do not mind! i want a dog with a muzzle like your raven... if my dog's muzzle could be just as short as her, then i would be ecstatic...do you have any of her when she was younger? i ask bc the clearer pic of my dog are from when he was really little


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

here you go raven as a puppy
raven at about 41/2 mths i think


hopefully these are helpful


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

oops sorry one of those pics isnt raven lol the pic with the chi on the lead is charlie not raven


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## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

thank you! your pics are VERY helpful to me. you have seen my puppy when he was little, right? so is there still hope he can have a muzzle like Raven's??? i know each dog is diff but please make a guess--youre qualified to. i cant rely on what i think bc my "opinion" will be tainted by wishful thinking. i love his head (it is pretty big, nicely shaped and he has a wonderful stop)and his coat ( it is so full). hes charting 4 pounds. i know for a male some think that is a bit big, but its ok for me bc im not planning on breeding him, anyway. he would be my dream chi in every way, if werent for his muzzle. ok and if it werent for his coat color (since ive always wanted a cream spotted chi on white). but color is so minor, i dont even really think much about it. if his muzzle would just look littler i would be soo happy. but if it'll always look the same, i wont love him any less.


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## KayC (May 3, 2005)

I just want to say he is beautiful and I love his color and his coat and his nose.


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## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

Zoey's Mom said:


> I just want to say he is beautiful and I love his color and his coat and his nose.


thank you, that is very kind of you and i very much appreciate it 

im really hoping he will grow into it. 5 month old zero ( this is zero,right?) gave me hope that it could look smaller...eventually. of course, im not saying zero had a long nose but if i wouldve seen him as a baby, i def woudlve never thought his nose would be so short looking as an adult. 

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?t=16062

and that is NOT to be mean, either, im just pointing out an example. i wouldnt insult anyone's dog...and i know we are all diff but if someone used my dog as an example of how they want their dog to look, id be so 

this is my son's great grandfather:









and here is the dad ( i know the pic is small but i figured itd help with making an assessment). 









i honestly dont know what mom looks like, but i figured she has a short nose, too bc all my breeder's CHs have little noses...when i purchased the dog, i thought he would look like his great grandfather or his father. im wondering when he'll start looking like them...

EDIT:
here is his mother:


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

Zero's nose length hasn't changed in proportion to his head since he was approx 4 months, The one difference if you look closer is Zero has particularly large eyes which became very prominent around 1 year of age, he got these from his dad and his brother also had them.

Zero's nose isn't that short it's approx 1/3 of his head no shorter, I have seen a lot shorter on dogs, Raven is yet another example if you look closely she also has large eyes.

If you aren't getting a show puppy don't expect to get the best any breeder has to offer, yes over 6 months things can even out slightly but the appearance is all relative,their noses don't exactly shrink just other features can become more prominent also with age their coat comes in.

On a side note Zero has quite a few breathing problems due to his nose, we actually call him Botan (After a little Japanese pig) because he grunts constantly, as a general rule Mai is a lot healthier, Zero reverse sneezes at everything.


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

i would have to say no i dont think it will grow no more and yes i agree with the rest when they say that his head will get better as it will up to a year i was told this at a show with alfie when he was 8 mths this was from show breeders who have been showing and breeding for years 
and yes it happened as alfie hit that year mark his head was better which did make his nose look better 
but your little one i think has a perfect muzzle anyway and he will oly grow to look better!!

i would also agree with the shorter the nose the more grunting and breathing problems chis seem to have nico and raven and even romeo too all snort alot and have fits of reverse sneezing they look so helpless when it happens 
dont get me wrong the others reverse sneeze too but not as frequent as nico raven and romeo


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## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

*Sarah* said:


> Zero's nose length hasn't changed in proportion to his head since he was approx 4 months, The one difference if you look closer is Zero has particularly large eyes which became very prominent around 1 year of age, he got these from his dad and his brother also had them.
> 
> Zero's nose isn't that short it's approx 1/3 of his head no shorter, I have seen a lot shorter on dogs, Raven is yet another example if you look closely she also has large eyes.
> 
> If you aren't getting a show puppy don't expect to get the best any breeder has to offer, yes over 6 months things can even out slightly but the appearance is all relative,their noses don't exactly shrink just other features can become more prominent also with age their coat comes in.


wait..is 1/3 about avg for chis? yeah, i realize im not getting the best from this breeder--my dog is a cryptorchid. if he wasnt, i wouldve never gotten him ( i know that and his breeder admits it). but i figured his crytorchidism is what makes him pet quality...not anything else. *i hope i wasnt mislead by the breeder  whats the point of getting a puppy from AKC CH parents if the baby doesnt even look like a CH?*




freedomchis said:


> i would have to say no i dont think it will grow no more and yes i agree with the rest when they say that his head will get better as it will up to a year...
> and yes it happened as alfie hit that year mark his head was better which did make his nose look better


thanks! this is the exact info i wanted to know  even if you wouldve told me you do NOT think his nose will ever look smaller, i just really wanted to know his facial features will stop developing.



freedomchis said:


> but your little one i think has a perfect muzzle anyway and he will oly grow to look better!!
> 
> i would also agree with the shorter the nose the more grunting and breathing problems chis seem to have nico and raven and even romeo too all snort alot and have fits of reverse sneezing they look so helpless when it happens
> dont get me wrong the others reverse sneeze too but not as frequent as nico raven and romeo
> ...


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

To be honest I have no idea how unhealthy it is but it sounds awful, I've never actually left Zero to keep reverse sneezing ever, it does make you wonder though if you left them and they couldn't stop themselves what would actually happen?


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## Keeffer (Feb 26, 2008)

I'm sorry but I don't understand why you want such a short nose, I prefer 1/2 to 1/3 of the head, not any shorter. Reverse sneezing can be lethal. When a dog has it, than he can't breathe right at that moment. They can turn blue and just die because of it. Most times it's harmless, moest dogs stop reverse sneezing after a while. But some dogs can't stop by themselves and really need help. Most dogs are very tired after a severe reversed sneezing attack..


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## Prosephone (Oct 2, 2005)

Personally, I have to wonder how some lines have such short noses? Standard is 1/3 of the head. Makes you wonder if there were a few out-crosses way back in the lines to create shorter snouts? If you look at show chi's 50 years ago their snouts were not nearly as short as they are today.

Also, remember that two CH dogs do not always make offspring that are to standard. Genetics are a funny thing...

Sarah gives a good point that larger eyes do make a snout look much shorter. I just love Zero's eyes!

That being said I think your boy is a doll! Why be so obsessed with the legnth of his snout? Obviously you will not be showing or breeding a dog with one testicle. 

A chihuahua is a chihuahua. No matter if they are a champion or a mixed breed you rescued from a pound they deserve the same amount of love! I think sometimes we all can get caught up in the superficial perfect chi standard and forget that owning a pet is about love and companionship not looks! Your dog would love you the same if you were a supermodel or a unattractive, overweight, hairless, red eyed albino...


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## OrchardLane (Aug 30, 2008)

Prosephone said:


> Personally, I have to wonder how some lines have such short noses? Standard is 1/3 of the head. Makes you wonder if there were a few out-crosses way back in the lines to create shorter snouts? If you look at show chi's 50 years ago their snouts were not nearly as short as they are today.
> 
> Also, remember that two CH dogs do not always make offspring that are to standard. Genetics are a funny thing...
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself. 

chibellaxo this is going to be a lot you are not going to want to hear but you are getting a pet quality dog that just happened to have come out of Champion parents. 

Having Champion parents does not mean your dog will look like a Champion, act like a Champion or even if he was "perfect" would be able to become a Champion himself.

Lighten up. He is a puppy. Don't judge him so harshly. He is not a "thing" or a piece of art to critique. He is supposed to be the dog you love and adore.

The dog you are supposed to be loving, cherishing and spoiling shouldn't be picked apart like a piece of meat. It is one thing to pick apart a show or breeding prospect but for a pet?! That is going over the top and heading into neurotic territory. 

Just love your dog the way he is. If you can't love him with his "long" nose or his "not cream" coat color - then maybe you should wait for the "perfect" dog because you will be forever judging him and that is not fair to a little dog.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but hearing you pick apart your little guy's features seems really harsh and petty (on your part) to me. You should be so excited about having him/getting him home etc etc etc not worrying about if his nose will be a bit smaller.


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## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

OrchardLane said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself.
> 
> chibellaxo this is going to be a lot you are not going to want to hear but you are getting a pet quality dog that just happened to have come out of Champion parents.
> 
> ...


no youre not harsh  as long as your on topic, i appreciate your honesty.. but he is "pet quality" bc of testicles..right? bc i was told everything else is supposed to be superb. i was told by really great show breeders ( who were also her friends) that he is gorgeous and a tragedy for her that his testicles are retained bc they had very high hopes for him. he went to me bc i assured her that not only will be a good home ( i have the $ to meet all his needs and i will love him) but i will also appreciate all the work she put into breeding such a stunningly handsome boy and that i will admire him as if he were a piece of art. she was thrilled and told me she was happy bc he is a boy that deserves to be shown to the world with pride...she is glad fate gave him a chance ( even if it wasnt in the ring).


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## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

doubl epost


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## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

Prosephone said:


> That being said I think your boy is a doll! Why be so obsessed with the legnth of his snout? Obviously you will not be showing or breeding a dog with one testicle.
> 
> A chihuahua is a chihuahua. No matter if they are a champion or a mixed breed you rescued from a pound they deserve the same amount of love! I think sometimes we all can get caught up in the superficial perfect chi standard and forget that owning a pet is about love and companionship not looks! Your dog would love you the same if you were a supermodel or a unattractive, overweight, hairless, red eyed albino...


 i want a near perfect dog bc im paying breeder prices. if i just wanted a ok dog, i wouldve went to the rescue shelter. his breeder is cool with it. she admits his muzzle is a bit long but assured me it will look better with time. my question is when. i already said id love him even if he didnt look perfect but it is a dream for me to own a near perfect chi and that is why i really want him to look ( someday) near perfect. please let me have a thread where i can learn without being lectured.


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## Keeffer (Feb 26, 2008)

chibellaxo said:


> its a personal preference. i think those with little muzzles ( like the dogs i mentioned) have nice looks



your dog has a short nose, why do you want it any shorter?? Your almost saying you want the Chihuahau to have a bulldog nose.. The Chihuahua has a moderately short nose. But what you want is a Chihuahua with an extreme face, and there aren't that many extreme Chihuahua's. And it isn't healthy either. The dogs you mentioned have a broad muzzle, but not supershort. I think 1/3 of the head. That's not ultra short like you want them to have. But if this dog doesn't have the colour you like, and doesn't have the nose you like, than why would you even buy him? You should wait a little longer untill your 'perfect' dog comes along. If you've found the right dog, you'll know. Because you won't ask questions about his nose length, but you would be very very happy and proud of his nose length..


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## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

^^ he is meant to be mine and i would question ANY dogs looks bc i would never get a dog which i didnt think was near perfect. im very picky. there are very few chis with the look that i like ( at least that i like enough that if offered i would want to pay for the dog, rather than rescue). But i do love the look of some chis which is why i wanted to keep looking until i get my hands on one that met my dream look. he has it, too except his nose is a tad long. his breeder agrees. i want a nose for my dog that is the same to those i mentioned. if their noses arent "too short" then my requests are realistic.


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## spedona (Aug 11, 2008)

chibellaxo, there is no such thing as THE perfect dog. your little boy is damn close to perfect and his nose IS short... if you set your expectations too high you risk being much more disappointed by focusing on details instead of the global picture. but you're right it's your dog, so you should have the feeling with him. my 2 cents


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## OrchardLane (Aug 30, 2008)

chibellaxo said:


> no youre not harsh  as long as your on topic, i appreciate your honesty.. but he is "pet quality" bc of testicles..right?


Most show dogs (and Champions) have minor faults and flaws that can be seen and picked up on in person (lighting and angles for photos can hide many things). 

There hasn't been a dog out there yet (nor will there be) that will BE the breed standard 110% as it is impossible to meet a standard on every point due to genetics - nothing in the world is perfect ever. Which is why dogs are judged on who is closest to the breed standard as interpreted by the judge that day.

However, un-descended testicles are considered a major fault (and under most judges this is a disqualification fault) so more than likely that is why he is not being sold as show quality. It is more than reasonable for the breeder to have kept him in hopes of the other testicle descending.

But you can't get hung up on him being Championship quality as there are probably some other minor faults there that aren't major enough to stop him from a showing/breeding career - they are still present. 

Minor faults don't make a dog less stunning to look at. Minor faults don't mean that he couldn't have a show career or even make Champion some day (those things all depend on the other dogs in the ring and the judges he is shown under). 

The issue is that we will never know as he can't be shown so it is important to keep that in mind. If you are harshly judging and critiquing him then he will pick up on it - don't think he won't - Chihuahuas are intensely perceptive and aware of what their humans are up to.

Don't let conformation enter into your mind. You are getting a pet quality dog - you like the overall looks of him. Just be happy. Don't wonder what if? 

It will drive you crazy and it is not fair to your dog.

When I was looking for my stock. I chose dogs with exceptionally healthy lines and amazing temperaments first. Then I looked for conformation as I know you can breed out flaws with selective breeding. 

I can list every minor flaw that my dogs have. However, after I did the the initial conformation assessment, I don't focus or dwell on the faults. I know what I have and what I am working with. I work with the positive points and breed the flaws out with the breed standard in mind - which is why I am making the progress that I am in my program. 

If I only focused on their flaws and not the positive attributes of each dog - I would be missing out on how great my dogs really are. I wouldn't be doing them justice because I would be objectifying them. They are not objects - they are furry little individuals of the canine kind. 

You need to shift your paradigm from critiquing dogs (which is useful when selecting a breeder/prospective puppy) to accepting your dog which will lead to gushing about all the great things your dog does ...

Until you can start accepting your dog for who/what he is, you won't be able to make peace.


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## Keeffer (Feb 26, 2008)

What if he is 2 years old and his nose is still that long? I'm just saying you should pick an other dog if this one doesn't fit your standards. He might never get the nose you like.


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## Maleighchi (Jan 6, 2008)

I think I have 3 perfect chis. I didn't pay breeder prices. (thank GOD!) It would be nice if you refrained from acting like the rest of us don't have beautiful dogs that we love and think are perfect just because YOU paid breeder prices. I feel like you are belittleing all of us who have purchased or rescued our chis because they don't fit to YOUR standard. Obviosly I say YOUR standard, cause you are getting a beautiful little boy who seems to be very close to the CHIHUAHUA standard and here you are complaining about his nose, which quite possibly is to standard. _You want non standard in your chi._ *So, please quit with the comments about bought or rescued/shelter chihuahuas. *I'm so tired of them. I fiind them offensive.



chibellaxo said:


> i want a near perfect dog bc im paying breeder prices. if i just wanted a ok dog, i wouldve went to the rescue shelter. his breeder is cool with it. she admits his muzzle is a bit long but assured me it will look better with time. my question is when. i already said id love him even if he didnt look perfect but it is a dream for me to own a near perfect chi and that is why i really want him to look ( someday) near perfect. please let me have a thread where i can learn without being lectured.


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## chibellaxo (Jul 6, 2008)

Maleighchi said:


> I think I have 3 perfect chis. I didn't pay breeder prices. (thank GOD!) It would be nice if you refrained from acting like the rest of us don't have beautiful dogs that we love and think are perfect just because YOU paid breeder prices. I feel like you are belittleing all of us who have purchased or rescued our chis because they don't fit to YOUR standard. Obviosly I say YOUR standard, cause you are getting a beautiful little boy who seems to be very close to the CHIHUAHUA standard and here you are complaining about his nose, which quite possibly is to standard. _You want non standard in your chi._ *So, please quit with the comments about bought or rescued/shelter chihuahuas. *I'm so tired of them. I fiind them offensive.


"cry me a river, build a bride and get over it..." bc i dont give a damn. my opinions are mine and i wont change them or censor myself for you...just like i dont expect you to do it for me. as long as i didnt say your dog (specifically) was ugly, then why should i cater to you? i dont care youre a mod, i didnt go out of my way to hurt you and if you want to feel a certain way, that is your prerogative.
to everyone else, you are right. i didnt mean to say i didnt love him and i def dont want him to feel bad. i just wanted to be s proud of my chi and think hes beautiful the way you all feel about yours...


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## Jayne (Jul 8, 2005)

chibellaxo said:


> "cry me a river, build a bride and get over it..." bc i dont give a damn. my opinions are mine and i wont change them or censor myself for you...just like i dont expect you to do it for me. as long as i didnt say your dog (specifically) was ugly, then why should i cater to you? i dont care youre a mod, i didnt go out of my way to hurt you and if you want to feel a certain way, that is your prerogative.
> to everyone else, you are right. i didnt mean to say i didnt love him and i def dont want him to feel bad. i just wanted to be s proud of my chi and think hes beautiful the way you all feel about yours...


 
Thats enough thread closed


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