# Thinking to breed our boy! Need advice!



## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

Hi guys! Ive been reading here and there about breeding. Still don't understand and prob don't realize how hard this process is. 
So I came here to ask for advice. 
Our boy will be a year on 26th of June. He is pure breed, up to date with all shots. We haven't fix him yet because we decided to wait a year, see if we would want to deal with all that and breed him or if he would actually pass all the standards at the first place to even think to do that. 
We don't want money from that, we just think his look is very unique especially eyes. His eyes are greenish/blueish with a light brown circle. I have some photos here, but I will post more. He is very smart, he already knows how to sit, give a paw, lay and stand up on his back legs. He goes pee and poo outside in the morning by waking up my husband, when Im home I ask him if he want pee, and as soon he hears the word "pee" he starts jumping and runs to the door. He got used to be on the leash. He knows what NO means etc. I guess Im trying to say he is smart and very pretty 
I would love to have another puppy, but we don't want to buy some puppy we want his daughter or son. 
Like I said I don't know much about breeding a boy, but maybe you can guide me a little bit. 

























































Thank you for your time and help!
Marina.


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## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Hello !  He is a very pretty boy and no-one can say different! He'd produce some lovely puppies but in my opinion his muzzle seems a bit too long to breed from. One thing you need to know is that breeding isnt all fun and games! Some people never see the heart break that it can cause. Im not trying to scare you or make you feel bad its your choice ultimately!! But he is pretty! If you'd like any more help feel free to ask around im sure some one can help!


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## JRZL (Jul 10, 2009)

i dont know much about breeding but he is gorgeous!! his eyes are amazing!!


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## YoQuiero (Apr 17, 2010)

I don't have any advice, my first guess would be to look around through breeders in your area and see if they'd be interested in a free stud sort of thing? If you like the dam.
But he is SO PRETTY! Wow. I bet his puppies would be gorgeous too.


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

OurCheekyChihuahuas said:


> Hello !  He is a very pretty boy and no-one can say different! He'd produce some lovely puppies but in my opinion his muzzle seems a bit too long to breed from. One thing you need to know is that breeding isnt all fun and games! Some people never see the heart break that it can cause. Im not trying to scare you or make you feel bad its your choice ultimately!! But he is pretty! If you'd like any more help feel free to ask around im sure some one can help!


Thank you so much! Dont worry to scare me  I understand that breeding is not games thats why I want to know as much as I can from experienced people here. So I will def ask more questions  
Is there like a measure standards I can look up online for male chihuahuas?


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

Thank you *YoQuiero* and *JRZL* for compliments  
That is a good idea to ask breeders around me, thanks *YoQuiero*!


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## Ember (Aug 7, 2009)

i'm sure someone better qualified to answer will chip in with some breeding advice but here's my imput. 

he sure is a handsome boy and yes, i think he'd produce some good looking puppies but breeding a dog just for that isn't a good idea.

i thought about breeding from my Diefie but made the choice against it as he wasn't up to UK Kennel club standards. (his eyes were too pale for the amount of black fur showing in his coat, his stance wasn't 'perky' enough and his muzzle is a little too long).
i didn't feel he'd better the chihuahua breed and that is the number one priority.

there are other commitments to owning a stud dog too.
are you prepared to board a bitch and oversee the matings?
is he pedigree and registered with a Kennel Club?
have you had him thoroughly checked out by vets to ensure he wont inadvertantly pass on a genetic problem or illness?
that's just a few things to think about - there is much more!


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## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Marina&Ian said:


> Thank you so much! Dont worry to scare me  I understand that breeding is not games thats why I want to know as much as I can from experienced people here. So I will def ask more questions
> Is there like a measure standards I can look up online for male chihuahuas?


Thats ok im glad to help, well try to  Sometimes things dont always sound the way i mean them!


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## Ember (Aug 7, 2009)

here's a link to the sticky thread about breeding.
it's quite useful and it certainly helped me.

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?t=48665


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Here's a breeding thread you can read through ....

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?p=644331#post644331

The AKC standard is listed there as well as things to consider before breeding your dog, including what health tests should be done, etc.


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

Thank you Ember!
I really haven't thought that far yet, wanted to talk to people on here first that know much more then I do. We are def not that type of people who would do something that we have no idea about. Before even talking to any breeder I want to make sure about his registration and size standards and his health for sure. I would not want to him to not better this breed! So thank you


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

You should also be aware that your sweet boys personality will change once he is allowed to mate and used for a stud dog. He will mark (pee in the house), etc. 

If you really want a puppy to add to your family, it's much easier and cheaper to buy one rather than try and breed one. Your dog is very cute, but he is pet quality. In my opinion, he should be neutered and not bred from.


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## Ember (Aug 7, 2009)

you're welcome 
good luck with whatever you decide for your gorgeous boy.


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> You should also be aware that your sweet boys personality will change once he is allowed to mate and used for a stud dog. He will mark (pee in the house), etc.
> 
> If you really want a puppy to add to your family, it's much easier and cheaper to buy one rather than try and breed one. Your dog is very cute, but he is pet quality. In my opinion, he should be neutered and not bred from.


That was another question about personality...I wouldn't want him to change 
I feel very sad and guilty when we fix our pets (makes me feel that we are doing smt unnatural), but I understand it is for every one's good. I came from Ukraine where there is no such law that your pets has to be neutered (which I never thought before that it is actually bad), that is why there are so may poor abandoned dogs and cats on the streets. When i moved here and Ian (my husband) told me that all pets has to be "fixed" I was in shock but then I realized how great this law is. For example my cat that I left in Ukraine she wasn't fixed for some time, she had litter ones, we happily gave all kittens away, but then she kept having this "play time" when she needed a boyfriend, we couldn't do it again so she got sick, we took her to the hospital and they did the surgery, doc said if we were few weeks later she would have censer of her womb  
Thank you for your advice.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Marina&Ian said:


> That was another question about personality...I wouldn't want him to change
> I feel very sad and guilty when we fix our pets (makes me feel that we are doing smt unnatural), but I understand it is for every one's good. I came from Ukraine where there is no such law that your pets has to be neutered (which I never thought before that it is actually bad), that is why there are so may poor abandoned dogs and cats on the streets. When i moved here and Ian (my husband) told me that all pets has to be "fixed" I was in shock but then I realized how great this law is. For example my cat that I left in Ukraine she wasn't fixed for some time, she had litter ones, we happily gave all kittens away, but then she kept having this "play time" when she needed a boyfriend, we couldn't do it again so she got sick, we took her to the hospital and they did the surgery, doc said if we were few weeks later she would have censer of her womb
> Thank you for your advice.


I am so happy that you are here and asking questions! So many people don't care enough to do any research. It's obvious how much you care for you and love your cute Chihuahua boy! Breeding is a personal decision and a choice WE make for them. In most cases, spaying or neutering is the kindest and best decision we can make for them.


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

Thank you so much *Brodysmom*, you are so right. And thanks to those ppl who made forums like that!


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## Chihuahuasloveme (Jan 8, 2010)

my 2 chi's Ninja and Prada have the exact same eyes as your boy he is so handsome I love him


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

aww they are so cute! i'll go look into your profile! thank you!


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

Ahh, I think he's gorgeous! In the Chihuahua standard? No, but I stills think he's gorgeous & his markings are so neat! We have a couple Chi's with light "luminious ruby" eyes as well. They will give a red tint in low lighting situations. (I actually like this! hehe) 

I'm going against the grain here & going to say if you wanted to breed him one time for the sole purpose of getting a pup from him for you to keep & you found someone with a suitable bitch willing to do so with him - I personally don't see the harm. My opinion is NOT the popular opinion I'm sure but that's what I think. 

Obviously if you are here asking questions you care a LOT for your boy. Good luck in your research & decision!


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

Chihuahuasloveme said:


> my 2 chi's Ninja and Prada have the exact same eyes as your boy he is so handsome I love him


I thought youd have some pics in your profile, do you have any pics in forum. Would love to see your babies!


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

MChis said:


> Ahh, I think he's gorgeous! In the Chihuahua standard? No, but I stills think he's gorgeous & his markings are so neat! We have a couple Chi's with light "luminious ruby" eyes as well. They will give a red tint in low lighting situations. (I actually like this! hehe)
> 
> I'm going against the grain here & going to say if you wanted to breed him one time for the sole purpose of getting a pup from him for you to keep & you found someone with a suitable bitch willing to do so with him - I personally don't see the harm. My opinion is NOT the popular opinion I'm sure but that's what I think.
> 
> Obviously if you are here asking questions you care a LOT for your boy. Good luck in your research & decision!


Awww thank you so much! You understood me completely. I would love to breed him ones just to get one or 2 pups from him. I think his temper is so great and he is cutypie. 
LOve your pups! They all so original colors and I Know what you mean about eyes give a little red tint in low lighting. I thought only cats have that


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Here is the breed standard: http://www.akc.org/breeds/chihuahua/


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Marina,

I'm glad you are taking your time to research before you decide to breed your boy. While he is a nice companion and everything you want in a pet, he is not to breed type. The Standard that you want to measure him against is the AKC/Chihuhua Club of America Breed Standard that details what a Chihuahua is supposed to look like. While those that don't fall into those guidelines make wonderful pets, they should not be bred. In addition to this very important point, there are many other things to consider. There's health testing that must be done on both dogs to ensure proper health (see the list on the CCA website). You need to research the dogs behind both parents to ensure they don't have these genetic issues, which could in turn pass to the puppies. You have to board the bitch at your house in order to get her bred, which makes you legally responsible for anything that may happen to her while she's there. In the event they fight or she's injuring during the mating (it happens frequently), that vet bill is on you. In the event she gets scared and runs out an open door, not only do you have to tell the owner, you have the legal obligation to replace her. That doesn't do anything for their broken heart but it is something to know before you take her in. Unproven males don't always know what they are supposed to do. The dogs can't be left alone together and "let nature take it's course." You have to supervise the mating, holding her for the entire process. If he doesn't get it, you have to help him. During the course of this, you or either/both of the dogs can be injured. In the event it doesn't go well, your boy will always remember it and it does change their happy, friendly personality to fearfull and shy around other dogs...and in some instances, fearful of the owners who "caused their pain." The list goes on and on.

If you are only doing this to get a puppy that looks like him, then you should know that it doesn't always work like that. The pups get genes from both parents, grandparents, and greatgrands, etc. It's the exception to the rule that pets produce themselves in a breeding. That means that none of the puppies may look anything like your boy. The eye color that you like is not a dominant gene and none of the pups may even have that, which I think is part of him charm for you. You'd have better chances of getting that eye color if you just fine a puppy already born with them. 

With all this in mind, if you chose to breed him, you'll need to prepare yourself for your baby boy to have a change in personality and a break in housetraining. Once used for studs, boys tend to become more territorial. Marking is a huge issue now because he has to make sure everyone knows what's his. They can become more aggressive and/or assertive around other dogs, especially other males when females are present, fixed or not. They become more dog oriented instead of people oriented, which means he'll be focused on other dogs instead of you, so your bond will diminish. There's many personality changes that are not the best for your typical household pet and are huge considerations for anyone thinking about studding their dog. Lots of things to think about. This is just a short list. Let me end by saying, last but not least, what about the welfare of all the rest of the litter? Be it 1 pup or 4 or 5, you will be just as responsible as the dam's owner for the lives of those puppies.

Studding a dog is a huge responsiblity so I'm ever so proud of you for doing your research and taking this so seriously. Many don't and think one litter is no big deal. Believe me when I say that if you decide to neuter him, he will be no less the wonderful companion he is today, he will not miss it at all, and he will be happier and healthier for it. For the most part, the only animal that has a problem with neutering is the two legged human males in the household. ;-) 

Let me know if you have any other questions. I'll be happy to help you with your research.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

LiMarChis said:


> Marina,
> 
> I'm glad you are taking your time to research before you decide to breed your boy. While he is a nice companion and everything you want in a pet, he is not to breed type. The Standard that you want to measure him against is the AKC/Chihuhua Club of America Breed Standard that details what a Chihuahua is supposed to look like. While those that don't fall into those guidelines make wonderful pets, they should not be bred. In addition to this very important point, there are many other things to consider. There's health testing that must be done on both dogs to ensure proper health (see the list on the CCA website). You need to research the dogs behind both parents to ensure they don't have these genetic issues, which could in turn pass to the puppies. You have to board the bitch at your house in order to get her bred, which makes you legally responsible for anything that may happen to her while she's there. In the event they fight or she's injuring during the mating (it happens frequently), that vet bill is on you. In the event she gets scared and runs out an open door, not only do you have to tell the owner, you have the legal obligation to replace her. That doesn't do anything for their broken heart but it is something to know before you take her in. Unproven males don't always know what they are supposed to do. The dogs can't be left alone together and "let nature take it's course." You have to supervise the mating, holding her for the entire process. If he doesn't get it, you have to help him. During the course of this, you or either/both of the dogs can be injured. In the event it doesn't go well, your boy will always remember it and it does change their happy, friendly personality to fearfull and shy around other dogs...and in some instances, fearful of the owners who "caused their pain." The list goes on and on.
> 
> ...


A most EXCELLENT post Lisa! Thank you for taking the time to respond to the post. I enjoyed reading it and think it will be invaluable in helping a person decide if studding their dog is what they want to do or not. :hello1:


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## Quinn (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm going to have to echo those who have posted here saying in their opinion breeding isn't the best idea. I guess I have rather high standards on who should be breeding and what animals should be used to do so. I try very hard not to post anything on breeding threads because it frustrates me but you really seem like you want to do the best thing for everyone, especially your dog, so I thought I'd chime in.

First off, in my eyes breeding should only be done to better the breed. Ever. In dogs that don't have a "purpose" in todays world other than companions I feel these dogs should be shown. Showing is not just about saying "my dog looks pretty today". The standard is the way it is for a reason. There are cases, such as with working dogs, that I think a dog who does its job and does it well, conformation showing isn't AS important, as part of showing standards are to ensure the dog can move to do its job right (rear angulation, length of bodies, etc etc). ANY dog being bred from should be in tip top shape health wise. I feel health testing is VERY important. People don't seem to realize (or care) how purebreds today are being ruined by breeders who don't pay attention to health and conformation. Dogs are being bred today that are SO far from their breed standard its sad. Do they make any less of a wonderful pet? No, but they don't look like the breed should, and eventually with careless breeding we'll end up with no dogs that look "correct". And so many purebreds have problems because care isn't taken into the health or lines of the parents who are bred.
(I'm not saying your dog doesn't look like a Chi, he does and he's gorgeous, but not quite up to standard in my opinion. I have a boy with eyes like that too I LOVE them! Gorgeous. And, I would never breed any of my pups either, because along with many other reasons they aren't to standard. But I love them all the same!)

Second, as has been said owning a stud dog can be difficult. They can have personality changes, start marking when they didn't previously, and prove to be a much less cuddly loving pet because they've got sex and "macho-ness" on the brain. Also things can go wrong during the breeding, where a dog can be injured. Obviously no one wants their pet to be injured. If you were to be determined to breed I would say find a real quality breeder to mentor you and help you pick a bitch that compliments him. Unfortunately I don't know if a breeder of high caliber would find him up to standard enough to breed with.

Do you know anything about his lines? Where did you get him? Have you spoken to his breeder? Do you have his papers? Is he AKC registered? Do you have full registration rights with him? 

It would be much easier and probably happier for all parties involved to just search for and find another chi who you find is gorgeous to adopt/buy as a companion. With breeding you wont KNOW what you'll get, but buying a pup already on the ground you can see them and pick and choose who/what looks and personality you want.

Either way I commend you for doing your research! It always makes me so happy to see people doing it because it shows you really care and hopefully you can make an informed decision and do what is best.


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

LiMarChis said:


> Marina,
> 
> I'm glad you are taking your time to research before you decide to breed your boy. While he is a nice companion and everything you want in a pet, he is not to breed type. The Standard that you want to measure him against is the AKC/Chihuhua Club of America Breed Standard that details what a Chihuahua is supposed to look like. While those that don't fall into those guidelines make wonderful pets, they should not be bred. In addition to this very important point, there are many other things to consider. There's health testing that must be done on both dogs to ensure proper health (see the list on the CCA website). You need to research the dogs behind both parents to ensure they don't have these genetic issues, which could in turn pass to the puppies. You have to board the bitch at your house in order to get her bred, which makes you legally responsible for anything that may happen to her while she's there. In the event they fight or she's injuring during the mating (it happens frequently), that vet bill is on you. In the event she gets scared and runs out an open door, not only do you have to tell the owner, you have the legal obligation to replace her. That doesn't do anything for their broken heart but it is something to know before you take her in. Unproven males don't always know what they are supposed to do. The dogs can't be left alone together and "let nature take it's course." You have to supervise the mating, holding her for the entire process. If he doesn't get it, you have to help him. During the course of this, you or either/both of the dogs can be injured. In the event it doesn't go well, your boy will always remember it and it does change their happy, friendly personality to fearfull and shy around other dogs...and in some instances, fearful of the owners who "caused their pain." The list goes on and on.
> 
> ...



I can not thank you enough for taking all this time to read and to write such an amazing little article for me! Thank you SO much! I knew that it is not a joke and the whole process take a lot of responsibilities, time, money etc. At this point I won't even think about breeding him at all. You got me right, his eyes is something me and my husband just in love with and I just realized that its not a dominant color in this breed. For me thinking ("dreaming") to get the same color or the same temper from our boy was kinda childish. Well it is our first Chihuahua pup to begin with  but we are in love. I really want another puppy, a girl so Jack will have a little friend his size. 
I will contact our vet doc about neutered him in near future. (dont even know how much it cost).
I knew as soon as an expert will look at his pics and tell me that he doesn't look like a doggy in all standards I will not be considering to breed him. Thank you again!
And you made me laugh about 2 legged human males...LOL


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Marina, I just want to say that I am SO IMPRESSED by you and your willingness to learn and to keep an open mind. That seems really rare nowadays! A lot of times people have their opinions set in stone and nothing can change their mind. It is always so refreshing when someone asks questions and then takes the advice and information given to heart like you have done. 

People like you make these types of message boards and forums really interesting and special! Thank you!


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

Quinn said:


> I'm going to have to echo those who have posted here saying in their opinion breeding isn't the best idea. I guess I have rather high standards on who should be breeding and what animals should be used to do so. I try very hard not to post anything on breeding threads because it frustrates me but you really seem like you want to do the best thing for everyone, especially your dog, so I thought I'd chime in.
> 
> First off, in my eyes breeding should only be done to better the breed. Ever. In dogs that don't have a "purpose" in todays world other than companions I feel these dogs should be shown. Showing is not just about saying "my dog looks pretty today". The standard is the way it is for a reason. There are cases, such as with working dogs, that I think a dog who does its job and does it well, conformation showing isn't AS important, as part of showing standards are to ensure the dog can move to do its job right (rear angulation, length of bodies, etc etc). ANY dog being bred from should be in tip top shape health wise. I feel health testing is VERY important. People don't seem to realize (or care) how purebreds today are being ruined by breeders who don't pay attention to health and conformation. Dogs are being bred today that are SO far from their breed standard its sad. Do they make any less of a wonderful pet? No, but they don't look like the breed should, and eventually with careless breeding we'll end up with no dogs that look "correct". And so many purebreds have problems because care isn't taken into the health or lines of the parents who are bred.
> (I'm not saying your dog doesn't look like a Chi, he does and he's gorgeous, but not quite up to standard in my opinion. I have a boy with eyes like that too I LOVE them! Gorgeous. And, I would never breed any of my pups either, because along with many other reasons they aren't to standard. But I love them all the same!)
> ...



Thank you to you too! I got this after I post a replay that Im not going to breed Jack, because even one opinion of experienced person that he doesn't look like good standard doggy and he wont better this breed. i don't to take that guilt on my shoulder and first of I really had know idea the whole breeding process with me having a bitch, helping etc is that complicated and actually scary to me who does not know ANYthing about this process!
So like few of you said I'd just look up for a puppy with similar eye color and will def neuter our boy. Thank you for taking time and explaining all that! I really appreciated.


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> Marina, I just want to say that I am SO IMPRESSED by you and your willingness to learn and to keep an open mind. That seems really rare nowadays! A lot of times people have their opinions set in stone and nothing can change their mind. It is always so refreshing when someone asks questions and then takes the advice and information given to heart like you have done.
> 
> People like you make these types of message boards and forums really interesting and special! Thank you!


Thank you  I feel better now and the idea completely fell off my mind.
I would be very stupid to do something by myself when I have no idea what this process about, we are talking about live little persons here  right! So Im glad I found this forum and you guys gave me precious advices! Thanks again!


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

This has been a very interesting thread to read with so much valuable and sensible advice.

I have no idea who bred my dog but I can see whoever they are, they are not good breeders.

I know this because my dog has bad genetic conformation in his legs and Luxation Patella of which he has just had two operations for and needs another two.

The cost is £3600 so far and luckily I am insured, I love my dog and would never change him but it is sad to see what he has to go through because of irresponsible breeders.

I say all this because you sound like a responsible person by asking all these questions and not just going out there and breeding anyways. Your main concern is for your dog which is fantastic and I really do applaud you.

Your dog is beautiful and those eyes are endearing.

Good luck on whatever decision you make.

Deme x


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

Thank you Deme! And Im sorry to hear this sad story about your boy. This is another reason why I asked for advice, I dont want to have that guilt on my shoulders, it is awful when people do that!


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## Quinn (Dec 11, 2008)

Mariana - THANK YOU! I'm so happy to hear that you wont breed him. People like you make me have a little faith that some people actually do care to do the right thing, despite what they would have liked. I see SO many people walk in and out of forums like this talking all about how they are going to breed, and either getting upset when people say don't and leaving, or doing it anyway and then everyone goes OH HOW CUTE! I hope you find an amazing little pup to be your companion. If you look hard Im sure you will. Your boy is certainly gorgeous though.


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## Marina&Ian (Sep 4, 2009)

Aww Quinn thank you!  I will make sure I'll let you guys know when we'll fix him and when we'll start to look for new pup. xoxo


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Marina&Ian said:


> I can not thank you enough for taking all this time to read and to write such an amazing little article for me! Thank you SO much! I knew that it is not a joke and the whole process take a lot of responsibilities, time, money etc. At this point I won't even think about breeding him at all. You got me right, his eyes is something me and my husband just in love with and I just realized that its not a dominant color in this breed. For me thinking ("dreaming") to get the same color or the same temper from our boy was kinda childish. Well it is our first Chihuahua pup to begin with  but we are in love. I really want another puppy, a girl so Jack will have a little friend his size. I will contact our vet doc about neutered him in near future. (dont even know how much it cost).I knew as soon as an expert will look at his pics and tell me that he doesn't look like a doggy in all standards I will not be considering to breed him. Thank you again!
> And you made me laugh about 2 legged human males...LOL


I'm am so very PROUD of you. You are doing a wonderful thing for you, your baby boy, and the breed in general. I'm so happy to see your baby has such a loving and thoughtful mommy. It's obvious how much you love him, and I know when you find your new "daughter", she will be as equally loved. I can see his love and joy for you in his eyes, and that to me, is the highest praise I can give any momma. I have complete faith that with time and patience, the perfect match for him and your family will come along that will give you that same adoration....with those same eyes that you find so endearing. 

Look forward to hearing all bout your baby as you keep us posted on his wonderful self through CP....and seeing the new addition when the time is right.


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> Marina, I just want to say that I am SO IMPRESSED by you and your willingness to learn and to keep an open mind. That seems really rare nowadays! A lot of times people have their opinions set in stone and nothing can change their mind. It is always so refreshing when someone asks questions and then takes the advice and information given to heart like you have done.
> 
> People like you make these types of message boards and forums really interesting and special! Thank you!


My very thoughts, Tracy. I've thoroughly enjoyed my time here because the people are so awesome. It makes me feel so good to sign in and see that together we can all make a difference, for the better, for our beloved Breed. Why? Because this forum proves that there are so many of us dedicated to *learning*. I've been on many boards, and I can attest, you are absolutely 100% correct, when you say that CP is special.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

MChis said:


> Ahh, I think he's gorgeous! In the Chihuahua standard? No, but I stills think he's gorgeous & his markings are so neat! We have a couple Chi's with light "luminious ruby" eyes as well. They will give a red tint in low lighting situations. (I actually like this! hehe)
> 
> I'm going against the grain here & going to say if you wanted to breed him one time for the sole purpose of getting a pup from him for you to keep & you found someone with a suitable bitch willing to do so with him - I personally don't see the harm. My opinion is NOT the popular opinion I'm sure but that's what I think.
> 
> Obviously if you are here asking questions you care a LOT for your boy. Good luck in your research & decision!



I am only halfway through this thread and I saw you decided to not breed your boy.
I just want to say something here.. again I know it won't be popular either.
Please don't not do this because someone told you your dog is not "up to snuff" Breeding is very political, opinions abound and .. well everyone has one.

Your dog is lovely, he has more of a deer head which some people actually prefer (myself included) and many years ago Chi's actually had a Deer head as standard.. Applehead is something that was bred into them.

My mother breeds Standard Poodles (since 99) and I have to tell you not all males become terrors and ignore you and mark in the house, if people want you to believe all dogs will do this... they are not being honest and I would say it's more politically motivated.

If your dog is health checked and all is well and you have the finances and the maturity to handle such a venture, I wish you well in whatever you do.
If your dog is healthy and not carrying any genetic issues, I see no reason to not breed him based on his "head" 

Nobody.. and I mean nobody can tell you what to do with your dog other than yourself or your partner.

Good luck!


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

KittyD said:


> I am only halfway through this thread and I saw you decided to not breed your boy. I just want to say something here.. again I know it won't be popular either. Please don't not do this because someone told you your dog is not "up to snuff" Breeding is very political, opinions abound and .. well everyone has one.
> 
> Your dog is lovely, he has more of a deer head which some people actually prefer (myself included) and many years ago Chi's actually had a Deer head as standard.. Applehead is something that was bred into them.
> 
> ...


This young lady asked very important questions trying to educate herself on the proper way to breed in order to benefit the breed in addition to adding another dog to her household that would resemble her current dog. No one told her she couldn't breed her dog, nor did we tell her the dog wasn't "up to snuff." Breeding isn't political at all. I don't understand where that comment is coming from. Breeding is totally a personal, ethical choice. There is only one AKC Standard, which is what breeders that are stiving to preserve and better the breed should use as a guideline. Yes, everyone has opinions, but that's what she asked for, and what she received with polite, insitefull, and thought provoking information. No one is telling her what to do. She made her own decision.

He does not meet the Standard, which is in place to properly define what a correct Chi looks like. This is for a reason. We do not want to lose the distinct characteristics of the breed. There are several reasons he doesn't meet the Standard. However, by definition, he's not "deer headed." He has a distinct stop and a well rounded dome. I don't have immediate access to the orginal Standards, but can state that as of 1943, the Standard called for "a well rounded "apple dome" skull, with or without a molera." I'd say that well over 65 years is a lot more than "many", it's not new, and it's pretty well defined that this is the correct head type. Chihuahuas are not supposed to look like Manchester Terriers or Min Pins, even in profile. That's the reason we have a Standard, so we have breed type. Yes, there are people out there who prefer "deer heads", but that doesn't make it correct to our Standard, and that's what she asked about. Good for her!

I don't believe anyone said that all males have issues after being bred. We let her know that this is a very real possibility. Again, it's not political. It's the truth. However, it is something that anyone who chooses to breed needs to be prepared for. For a breeder to have this happen is one thing. We are prepared for it. For the average pet owner to have this happen to their up till now perfect companion, just because they wanted "that one litter" is a huge shock. As a rescuer of over 20+ years, I can attest to the fact that it often ends in getting rid of the dog. That's not fair to the dog. Nor is it fair to not educate the owner that it's a very real possibility. It becomes their choice whether or not they want to take that risk and if it's worth it to them. She has obviously chosen that it is not. 

She was given the list of health clearences the dog needed, as well as the dam. The problem then becomes getting that information on the rest of the pedigree. She has no way to know if he's a carrier for anything without that information. Just because he checks clear doesn't mean he won't produce it. Nobody has been focused on his head type except you. She wanted a puppy with eyes like the daddy and his temperment. Due to the genetics involved, it's going to be a better bet to get one already born than try to produce that with the limited knowledge she has on the father. I applaud her for making that choice. There's no point producing Chis who don't meet the Standard if she's not even going to get what she's wanting. Then what's to happen to the puppies? We are over run in rescue as it is. There's no reason to produce more puppies when what she is looking for is already out there...and it's a sure thing because she's gonna be looking at the puppy already born...not going on a wish and a prayer.

One can not make educated decisions without the research and inquiries that this young lady undertook. She's to be applauded for that. Not one person told her what to do. We all gave her information, she weighed the pros and cons, and made her decision herself. Not many take that initiative and later have regrets, at the expense of the dog and the breed. I'd say that makes her a Gold Star Chi Momma.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

LiMarChis said:


> This young lady asked very important questions trying to educate herself on the proper way to breed in order to benefit the breed in addition to adding another dog to her household that would resemble her current dog. No one told her she couldn't breed her dog, nor did we tell her the dog wasn't "up to snuff."  Breeding isn't political at all. I don't understand where that comment is coming from. Breeding is totally a personal, ethical choice. There is only one AKC Standard, which is what breeders that are stiving to preserve and better the breed should use as a guideline. Yes, everyone has opinions, but that's what she asked for, and what she received with polite, insitefull, and thought provoking information. No one is telling her what to do. She made her own decision.
> 
> He does not meet the Standard, which is in place to properly define what a correct Chi looks like. This is for a reason. We do not want to lose the distinct characteristics of the breed. There are several reasons he doesn't meet the Standard. However, by definition, he's not "deer headed." He has a distinct stop and a well rounded dome. I don't have immediate access to the orginal Standards, but can state that as of 1943, the Standard called for "a well rounded "apple dome" skull, with or without a molera." I'd say that well over 65 years is a lot more than "many", it's not new, and it's pretty well defined that this is the correct head type. Chihuahuas are not supposed to look like Manchester Terriers or Min Pins, even in profile. That's the reason we have a Standard, so we have breed type. Yes, there are people out there who prefer "deer heads", but that doesn't make it correct to our Standard, and that's what she asked about. Good for her!
> 
> ...



Actually I am editing this post because I am going to go back through this thread and pick out what I was talking about since you clearly don't see it.
Your a breeder I get your bias.. ok I do.

Not of all us who love our dogs and work in rescue are breeding for show.
I've met show breeders who don't even treat their animals properly.. your talking to the wrong girl here.

I've been involved in rescue and breeding showing since the mid 90's my mother is a current breeder.
She has a CKC dog with 20.000 worth of vet bills right now.. from a VET who breeds for show 

Bottom line you have your opinion and I have mine, I agree with you on many things but I don't on this sorry.


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## LiMarChis (Mar 29, 2010)

Don't bother, KittyD. It's truley not worth my time to get into a discussion with you. I came back to delete my post to avoid just that but was too late and since you quoted the whole thing, there's no way to erase this "stuff" at the end of what was a great thread. This honestly has nothing to do with showing. You don't get that either. Another point to agree to disagree on. 

The highlight of this thread is that she asked for opinions to educate herself on a matter she didn't know about and then made her decision. It was hers to make, not yours, not mine. She did the right thing and no one told her what to do.

Save yourself the time and agree to disagree with what I said. That's your right.


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## KayC (May 3, 2005)

I think the OP has got very good information and made her decission. There is some very good points made this thread. I think everything she was asking for has been answered pros and cons and she made up her mind on the information she has gathered.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Too late Mama! LOL I'm a spicey one, you know that by now from the PM's we have shared in the past... LOL
You have a valid point as do I.



OurCheekyChihuahuas said:


> Hello !  He is a very pretty boy and no-one can say different! He'd produce some lovely puppies but in my opinion his muzzle seems a bit too long to breed from!


Comment #1



Brodysmom said:


> You should also be aware that your sweet boys personality will change once he is allowed to mate and used for a stud dog. He will mark (pee in the house), etc.
> Your dog is very cute, but he is pet quality. In my opinion, he should be neutered and not bred from.


Comment seems to state that the male will matter of fact mark in the in the house and suffer a personality change, also note the bit about "pet quality"



Marina&Ian said:


> Awww thank you so much! You understood me completely. I would love to breed him ones just to get one or 2 pups from him. I think his temper is so great and he is cutypie


This girl loves her dog and only wants to breed to keep the pups for her own use? what the heck is the problem here? She's not selling or showing.. really?  If she is willing to get him health tested and do her research on his lines and foot the bills? 



LiMarChis said:


> While he is a nice companion and everything you want in a pet, he is not to breed type. The Standard that you want to measure him against is the AKC/Chihuh


How many comments now is this about his "breed type" goodness gosh.. who is fixated on breed type (aka head)



Quinn said:


> First off, in my eyes breeding should only be done to better the breed. Ever. In dogs that don't have a "purpose" in todays world other than companions I feel these dogs should be shown. Showing is not just about saying "my dog looks pretty today". The standard is the way it is for a reason. There are cases, such as with working dogs, that I think a dog who does its job and does it well, conformation showing isn't AS important


Thats just all over the place, pick a stance and keep it.
What about the breeders that decided to toss off a dog because it does not "look right" this is ok? really? 
I had a few dogs in my care when I did rescue from such a situation.



Marina&Ian said:


> because even one opinion of experienced person that he doesn't look like good standard doggy and he wont better this breed


Listen, you came to the wrong place to ask about breeding. Your boy is lovely and even better he has a lovely temperament and thats worth a ton more than looks IMO any day, please don't let anyone tell you that your dog is inferior because he does not have a piece of paper... gah thats just wrong.


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## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Kitty D - "Listen you came to the wrong place to ask about breeding"

As to Kitty D's comment on this being the wrong place to come to asking about breeding....This is a wonderful site for breeding questions as we have all walks of life here and there are some VERY knowledgeable people here that care a great deal for our breed :icon_smile:


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