# Talked to Luna's breeder



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Well, I got an e mail from Luna's breeder tonight and she says that Luna is a full chi  She said alot of people think her female (Luna's mom) is a mini pin mix because she is big, like Luna around the 7 pound mark. I want to believe her because why would she lie to me at this point? I already have Luna, I'm not looking to give her back and I have told her I would like to breed Luna, so you would think if Luna was actually a mix, she would let me know at this point?
Anyway lol I sent her some pics of Luna and she said she is going to send me a bunch of pics of Luna when she was a baby and even some video! I will be excited to get that!! lol naturally I will share what I get with you guys hehehe


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

haha cant wait! Maybe shes just a big girl? who knows


----------



## *Princess* (Feb 7, 2009)

oo yay pics pics pics!! i cant wait too see her xx


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

If you DO decide to breed Luna, be sure you are very upfront from the beginning that they will be non-standard Chi's and very large. Even if you breed to a much smaller male, the genetics are there. 

Most people want Chihuahua's because they are small and the smaller the better when it comes to selling puppies. Nothing against the larger ones, but you are knowingly making the decision to breed an oversized bitch. And buyers should know that they will not be small or regular sized Chi's, but a possibility that they will be big.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Definately you have to be 100% upfront with saying she is a lot larger then normal


----------



## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

Tracy, I'm not saying that your breeder is lying but a lot of breeders that sell mixes and advertise them as full chi's would never admit to anybody that they aren't. It would really make her look awful to do that. Plus, being that your vet believes she is a mix and her size, I would be prone to trust him over the breeder. A simple DNA test will resolve all your questions and should be done prior to breeding. I have to completely agree with Tracy. You will not be within standard for a chihuahua puppy as she is already 7 pounds at 4 months. She has a lot of growing to do still. Good luck with everything hon. Kiss Willie for me!!!


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

lol I know mommies ;-) lol That is why I will have the dna test done at the vets. I think I have made it pretty clear that I want to be up front and honest with anyone who wants to buy Luna's pups when the time comes. That is why I have been so obsessed about finding out for sure if she is a mix. The very last thing i want to do is give someone something they don't want. i am getting that from my own experience. IF Luna's breeder told me she would get this big, I likely would NOT have gotten her. Would I give her back at his point...NO, not a chance. BUT I DID want a tiny girl, and I ended up with a big one. So believe me, i want to be totally honest with everyone. Besides, if I am not honest and someone brings back a pup because they grow too big, well that gives ME probs of bringing it back and having to rehome an older pup, which is more difficult lol I'd rather place them in their forever homes the first time 

Also it will be a learning experience for me as I do intend in the future to get a smaller girl (not too small I know, more standard) and breed her. I'd rather start off big like Luna since it seems to go better with bigger chi's so I have more expereince. 
Now when I say in the future, I am talking YEARS in the future like at least 10 lol I DO love chihuahua's to death but my limit is 3 dogs for KEEPS lol so a smaller girl is not in store for me until Rosa passes and she is only 2 lol so I got at least 10 more years with Rosa. And even that is conflicting. I have reasearched it before and since she is a mix I cannot get an age as good for her life expectancy. I think Yorkie is longer, 15 years maybe, but for Maltese I think its closer to 10-12. I will have to look this up again as it was when I first got Rosa that I checked this stuff as someone said the worse thing about dogs is that they don't live as long as cats lol and my cat died at 15 so I checked it out


----------



## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

I'm laughing out loud right now. My limit was three also. God love ya. Now it's four. I think I'm done but it's hard to say. Ya just never know when that "right" pup comes along. LOL. Good luck with your ventures and I'm sure all will go well.


----------



## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

I am happy for you that the breeder is talking to you and sending pictures. That will be fun to get those. Luna is cute as buttons...I still think that she is a mix ...I am one of the ones that wants to know..so when you find out...we can start taking more guesses..lol


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

LOL!!!! You guys are something else!  lol 

3 IS my limit.....3 IS my limit....3 IS my limit......LMFAO!!!! Stop it! Hubby said NO more lol


----------



## Quinn (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm sorry but why do you insist on breeding Luna? Why don't you wait until you get a to standard chi girl, from a good background with lines that you can trace? Why don't you start off the right way instead of the wrong way? Yes everyone does have to start somewhere, but using a dog who you don't know anything about their background who came from a BYB is not a good starting point. Find a good breeder to mentor you and start working with them and talking with them about the process and get a standard chi to breed with the help of someone with loads of experience.

That aside, I also think your breeder is full of beans and is lying. Maybe even not KNOWINGLY lying, but most BYB get their dogs from other BYBs and its way more then possible that Luna's parents or grandparents were mixed and this BYB either knows and is lying or doesn't even know and think the parents are pure.


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Okay here is a thought, lets say you do breed this bitch of yours and people come to buy a puppy and see your bitch and thinks she is not full chi (as the majority including your vet thinks) so they decide not to buy your Chi, most people will not pay that much money for a mix. So now you have these puppies that you are responsible for and your husband has already said that you cant have anymore. Now where do these puppies go and is it fair to them? If he lets you keep them then there will be no smaller Chi in the future as you will have so many?

Also you are adding to the over population of pets. You can look at another thread that is going on at how much work breeding is, what a heart break it can be as well as how expensive it is. If I am not mistaken your other dog had it's leg removed because you couldnt afford to fix it? Am I remembering correctly? If you couldnt afford to fix the leg then how will you afford all of the possible emergencies that go along with breeding as well as the expense of raising puppies before rehoming them?

Also there is no reason to make a practice run breeding, you can make a practice run with your smaller bitch you want in 10 yrs as it will be no different except hopefully you will have a reputable breeder as a mentor and it will make it much easier ;-)

This is a huge decision not to be taken lightly! I Just wanted to give you a few things you may want to think about before making taking this big step;-)


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

hmmmm, I am going to be honest right at the start, so people who do not want a bigger chi can not get one of Luna's. Its that simple. I am not going to advertize TINY chi pups knowing full well they will likely be bigger.
I have talked with hubby and he is willing to go ahead with this, KNOWING we will keep any pups that do not get homes.
I don't want to start with a small girl and have my first experiences go wrong. I want experience FIRST before I may have to deal with other things that can go wrong with a small girl (yes I know they can go wrong anyway and I am looking into it a TON). Would you tell a first time Chi owner to buy a TINY chi with all the possibilities of health problems?????????!!!!! No you save those tiny ones for owners who have experience with tiny chi's like T (;-))
So I would rather go safer and breed Luna who is bigger. I am not going to pretend to ANYONE that she is a tiny girl or that she might be or is mix (that I WILL find out before I breed her)
I am entering into it with eyes WIDE open, so if I have to keep her pups, then YES, I am aware a tiny girl for me will have to wait even longer.

Now, as for Willy, My husband was out of work at the time of Willys accident. We paid about 700 for the first casting, after over 100 in x rays and pain meds , so lets round up to 800 for that. Then more x rays and pain meds and gas moneys back and forth to the vet which is an hour away. This is btw after just buying him for 1000 two weeks before my hubby lost his job. So now we are about 2000 in. The decision to have the leg removed was not entered lightly and so much played a factor into it. at the time, yes 4500 (high end) was beyond really what we could afford and there was no guarentee that the surgery would be completely sucessful and no guarentee that he would be pain free as the pins can slip and can cause pain in cold, surgery may have to be done again etc etc. Anyway, the re break of the leg cost more money is x rays and pain meds and visits, about 400 in total there for them to x ray it, give him pain meds and to put a temp cast on it til surgery. The amputaion, x rays, pain meds etc on top of that was 1000 (not including gas money). ALL of this while hubby was out of work (might I mention we have a mortgage and 5 kids). So to add it all up, 1000 for Willy, 800 for first casting, 400 to patch him up before surgery , xrays and pain meds included, and 1000 for the surgery to amp. So thats over 3000 in vet bills while my hubby was out of work. Thats ALOT of money in my situation. My situation is different now, plus I am already putting money aside for this (a whole year at least before breeing her).

Chihuahua's are not OVER populated here, they are not that easy to find, so I am not "making" pups that will be unwanted. Remember, Canada is NOT the States

 I DO appreciate all the experience I am seeing here and all the advice I can recieve. I KNOW you are trying to be helpful to me, but the breeding rants are getting a bit old. Why not pick on some of the other breeders around here? :-0 I am fresh, so I guess that makes me bad

I am also wondering how my thread of talked to Luna's breeder and am gonna get pics and video, turned into my head on a plate with breeding again?? :-(


----------



## snazzychi (Jan 19, 2010)

I DO appreciate all the experience I am seeing here and all the advice I can recieve. I KNOW you are trying to be helpful to me, but the breeding rants are getting a bit old. Why not pick on some of the other breeders around here? :-0 I am fresh, so I guess that makes me bad

I am also wondering how my thread of talked to Luna's breeder and am gonna get pics and video, turned into my head on a plate with breeding again?? :-([/QUOTE]

hi there, it's such a shame a thread started by you to talk about talking to lunas breeder turned into yet another bashing about breeding. 
i have just bred my girl and got mixed reactions from people when i asked questions. i believe eveyone is entitled to their own opinion, yet some people believe that their opinions are gospel. 
my girl is a long coat and my boy and a short coat. just after i became a member a thread was started about breeding the 2. how it was wrong. well, i have done this, am extremely please with all the healthy gorgeous SOLD puppies and i know they will have forever homes.
anyway ;-)
i think luna is beautiful, and if i lived in canada, i would have one of her babies in the future!
good luck with everything in the future and cant wait to see the home videos and pictures of luna as a baby! xxxxxjennyxxxxxxx


----------



## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

Tracy, you have to understand that breeding a well overstandard chi mix and making statements like "having a test run or trial run" is going to elicit some negative responses. I don't even post on this forum much anymore because nobody can give their opinions honestly on anything. Breeding Luna is not a breeding to better the standard and anybody who knows anything about "serious" breeding would not/could not encourage this breeding. You have no idea about her background, your breeder can't be trusted. Just because she might be able to free whelp is no indication that your "standard" chi will be able to. I am close friends with my breeder and have met several of her breeder friends that show and finish all their pups before they breed. They had no test runs. They spent years and money and time researching and showing and have thriving businesses because of it. Any thread that has to do with breeding is likely to bring on several different opinions. No matter how you slice it, this breeding will not better the breed, which some people (including myself) think is wrong to do. Sorry if I've offended but it's very hard being a longstanding, active member of this forum to see so many people encouraging non-standard, mix breed breedings with the mass overpopulation of animals.


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

I understand hun what you are saying, and I know it is a very testy subject, which was why I dropped out of the thread about breeding and decided to keep my breeding opinions to myself rather then sit and argue about it. My thread was NOT a breeding thread. It was a CHAT about how I talked to Luna's breeder and she is going to send me pics and video of Luna as a baby. I was excited about that as I love her to bits and want to see her as a baby.

I don't think there is anything wrong with mixed dogs. My Rosa is a mix and I love her beyond words. She was our first dog and I BOUGHT her AS a mix, knowing full well she was a mix. 

I didn't SAY I was using Luna as a test run. What I said in fact was I know it SOUNDS like I am using her as a test run, but i am not. I HAVE said however that I would like to start out with a bigger girl so I can gain my experience with it without a reasonable amount of risk due to a small girl. I said I would rather start off with as least complications as I can so i am not adding on top of it.
I am aware that there can be problems either way and I am doing a ton of reasearch on it as well as talking to my VET who is experienced with it. I also know TWO breeders that I am discussing things with that live within an hours distance of me. Also my mom used to breed chihuahua's so I have her too. I didn't grow up with my mom so it was not something I was aware of until recently when I talked to her about Luna. So that in fact is 3 experienced people, not including the vet. I am not walking into it blindly. I am waiting and saving and gatheing as much info as I can.

Everyone has the right to their own opinion hun  
There is no mass overpupulation of chi's here or chi mixes as they are snatched up the second they become available. I regularily check rescues and humane societies in my area and I have been doing this since I got Rosa years ago


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

just becareful look at what happent to Eagles Chihuahuas


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

Hi everyone, what happened to me is really bad luck all my girls have papers and the studs to and I did everything the way it should be done either it is the stud dogs or just realy bad luck on my part. If you are going to do it then good luck and I know nothing anyone says is going to change your mind cause you sound just like me lol. 
But I wish you all the best of luck with what ever you do. I have found the anti breeders in us so don't know if things are different there but in the uk you would be hard pushed to find a chi in a rescue center and they are not over populated here so breeding for us is different. 
Good luck and can i ask is Luna the chic or cream
colour and can you just post some more pics of her so I can see. 
Thanks


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

I think Luna is the Balck Tri-colour


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Yep, Luna is the tri colour  I will post a few pics. See, it can happen to anyone, reguardless of papers and all that stuff. I know its the fact that she's bigger and possibly a mix that has a few people grumbling about it. But I am being honest and I am hiding nothing and there are NOT an over population of Chi and chi mixes here. I was THINKING , see look what happened to Eagles Chihuahuas even though she had small chi's and papers and lovely studs, but I didn't want to say that and hurt anyones feelings. i KNOW what can happen and I am ready to deal with what ever does happen. I have a ton of life experience. I have 5 children. I own my own home. I am not a 16 year old girl who is saying " well gee whiz I think it will be narly cool to breed cute tiny doggies and golly gosh if I can't sell them I'll just dump them off at the shelter" lol ;-P hehehe

anyway, here's my GIANT 7 pound chi 










To size compare abit, thats her with my 10 pound Yorkie/Maltese Rosa 



























And here with my cream coloured one Willy Mr 3.5 pounds lol


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Yes erm i think some people may find the age reference slighty offensive :S lol  x


----------



## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

I know you are young ourcheekychihuahuas, are you really 16?


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

lol yeah , sorry about the age ref. Though no 16 year old should be breeding dogs anyway lol unless of course they have full parent support 

16 year olds CAN be loving great mama's to Chi's though!!


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

yes lol amazing hey! I didnt want ot add it on my profile and be gunned by certain members! lol


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Excuse me while I take my foot out of my mouth ;-) xoxox


----------



## LittleHead (May 20, 2004)

Hey Tracy 
I will never forget when my first female chi got pregnant. She was barely a year old, my male was maybe 2 or 3 and I was about 9. She had the hardest time pushing; she was a cute little thing and her stomach was soo big! We took her to the vet and just be feeling her, he was able to determine one of the pups was stuck in the canal. We left her there so he could do a c-section on her. Later on, he called and said that all 3 puppies had died. He also mentioned that they were quite big. 

A little while later, we went and got the mommy and she looked horrible!! I checked up on her hourly, while she lay in a bed we had for her. During one of those times, which was the last, her eyes didn't move one bit...she had sort of been like that throughout the day. I had a little play stethoscope and heard no heartbeat. Yes, she did die. 

I don't want to scare you at all which is why I understand why you'd want to breed Luna since she is bigger. You say you won't be breeding her for at least another year? I'd ask that you please do tons and tons of research and continue to get advice from the experienced people who are in your life right now. Obviously no matter what opinions are expressed by myself or anyone on here won't completely matter because Luna is not my dog. She's Your dog. 

*hugs* and good luck with everything!


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

MY family have been breeding dogs for years. I am at college studying a NAtional Award in Animal Management. Then off to Cambridge for my Grooming coruses then to Uni for Veterinary Nursing ive been breeding Chihuahuas for around 4-5 years for the last 2-3 ive done it on my own without full parental support but obv if i need it its here. I pay my own vet bills/ fuel bills electricty bills and boarding for ym dogs im responsibl and only let ym babies go to the best of homes! You might find it hard to believe btu i do!


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Haha dont worry about it Tracilea:S lol


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks Littlehead 
Thats what I'm trying to do, do LOTS of research so I know everything I possibly can before I breed her. And yes, i will be waiting at least a year to wait for her third heat. It was probably why your lil one died because she was still a puppy herself when she had puppies. I have talked about this with my vet and he is in agreement with me that yes to wait for the third heat so she is finished growing and her pelvis and stuff is fully grown and he can do a check to make sure they are wide enough for birthing. The same as women, some Bigger women/dogs have small pelvis bones and have a hard time passing babies/puppies.

I will be doing a TON of research between now and then and she will be checked over by the vet to make sure she is heathy and she will be fully grown before I breed her. Though from here on out, I am going to only READ breeding posts and no respond to them


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Ourcheekychihuahua's. Some people are different and more mature about things  This I know because I have been on my own since I was 16 and I was more mature, obviously so to have accomplished all I have in my life 

I meant more to show immaturity with the "narly" comment lol ;-) xoxoxox


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

How do you pay for everything on your own do you work????


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Tracilea said:


> I understand hun what you are saying, and I know it is a very testy subject, which was why I dropped out of the thread about breeding and decided to keep my breeding opinions to myself rather then sit and argue about it. My thread was NOT a breeding thread. It was a CHAT about how I talked to Luna's breeder and she is going to send me pics and video of Luna as a baby. I was excited about that as I love her to bits and want to see her as a baby.
> 
> I don't think there is anything wrong with mixed dogs. My Rosa is a mix and I love her beyond words. She was our first dog and I BOUGHT her AS a mix, knowing full well she was a mix.
> 
> ...


I have a friend that has a huge rescue in Canada and everytime I tell her that people say that they cant find Chihuahua's or Chi mixes there she laughs and tells me that the rescues are full of them? I have even asked her if certain areas lacked toy breeds as I have heard this as well and she said absolutely not that you guys are not as full up as we are but it was quickly going to get to that point in Canada as well if something wasnt done about it.

I am very happy you are going to get to see baby pics and video of Luna


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Cute pics of Luna but I wanted to add that this is the first time I have seen her standing and looking at her growth plates, she should get much taller...now I am leaning towards her being mixed with something a good bit bigger? How old is she again?


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Growth plates? She will soon be 5 months


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

I would like to add that if Luna were to get seriously big, I would not consider breeding her. This is still new and fresh and I would like to breed her, but I am not going to if she gets super big lol


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Sorry it took me so long to respond but I have been trying to find a picture to show you the difference between a Chihuahuas growth plates and a larger dogs so you could get an idea of what I am talking about. I couldnt find one but will look for some tomorrow ;-) Basically the growth plates I am speaking of are on her legs when you are looking at her standing and you see the knot that kinda protrudes where right above her ankle if she was human (sorry trying to explain it in a simple way) Well the large knot will smooth out as she grows so if there is a pretty good size knot there then that means she has awhile until it smooths out. Does that make sense?


----------



## Quinn (Dec 11, 2008)

Okay for instance Phoebe at 3ish months. 








At 5ish months.









Notice how her legs don't have much of a "lump" on the ankle area? Thats because she isn't growing much more.

Now Halpert

















He's got a bit lump. He's got a lot more growing to do. As an adult the leg will appear smoother, without such a knot in front.


----------



## LittleHead (May 20, 2004)

I have actually learned something! Wow, I never knew about the growth plates.


----------



## Jo-bell (Sep 27, 2009)

That is very interesting. I have just looked at all three of my dogs legs and photos of them as pups. I see exactly what you mean.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Tracilea said:


> Ourcheekychihuahua's. Some people are different and more mature about things  This I know because I have been on my own since I was 16 and I was more mature, obviously so to have accomplished all I have in my life
> 
> I meant more to show immaturity with the "narly" comment lol ;-) xoxoxox





eagleschihuahuas said:


> How do you pay for everything on your own do you work????



Im the oldest and the younger ones are only 8yrs old 
ive always been mature im not a silly girl shopping all the time having every guy i can etc as much as id love to lol. I know i have respinsibilities and i myself dont do anything until ive dealed with the dogs and coursework. I am quite mature for my age and when people come to visit me they are surprised when they see me but even so more when im 16 17 this year as i dont really look it not that this matters much.
Im not going to lie i am young and i know what im doing with this i have suffered losses personally just as bad as you Emma but i paid for it financially and emotionally i learned the animal death/life cycle at a young age and have been around dogs all my life.
I do have a small job and i work when i can or just whenever they need the help really  Hope this clears anything up Thansk for reading the gabble!


----------



## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Got to agree I hate it when a thread changes topic and ends up having nothing to do with what I started out with, however I also see the concerns given.

If you decide to breed from her think of this. No matter how good a home you think your dogs are going to you don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Then some decide they can't cope and sell to anyone. There are in all countries too many unwanted animals in shelters due to people buying getting bored then getting rid.

I am not a breeder in fact have never bred a dog (Guinea Pigs by accident yes lol) but I would have thought a standard sized Chi would be okay to breed whether the person was a first timer or not.

Anyway back to your original post, hope all goes well and you get the pics and video through soon, it will be nice to see pics of her as a young puppy. She looks so much like Jake though not in size, so I gotta say "She is beautiful"


----------



## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

Yoshismom said:


> I have a friend that has a huge rescue in Canada and everytime I tell her that people say that they cant find Chihuahua's or Chi mixes there she laughs and tells me that the rescues are full of them? I have even asked her if certain areas lacked toy breeds as I have heard this as well and she said absolutely not that you guys are not as full up as we are but it was quickly going to get to that point in Canada as well if something wasnt done about it.
> 
> I am very happy you are going to get to see baby pics and video of Luna


Same here Michelle. My Chi Rescue woman (who is sent straight from heaven) that I have become friends with and have been helping her out, has several contacts in Canada regarding Chi Rescue. When I tell her that people say there are no chi's or chi mixes over there she laughs and says "then someone isn't looking hard enough". She also said that they are getting more and more full with the economy the way it is. So sad right now people that have to give their angels up because they can't afford them.

Sorry Tracy, got totally off topic there.


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Yoshismom said:


> Sorry it took me so long to respond but I have been trying to find a picture to show you the difference between a Chihuahuas growth plates and a larger dogs so you could get an idea of what I am talking about. I couldnt find one but will look for some tomorrow ;-) Basically the growth plates I am speaking of are on her legs when you are looking at her standing and you see the knot that kinda protrudes where right above her ankle if she was human (sorry trying to explain it in a simple way) Well the large knot will smooth out as she grows so if there is a pretty good size knot there then that means she has awhile until it smooths out. Does that make sense?


very interesting


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

I don't think this thread turned to off topic, because op stated in her post that she was going to breed Luna. And I think the breeder is SO full of shiznit. She is defintately mixed, doesn't take away from her gorgeousness factor though.


----------



## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

It is interesting looking at these latest picture of dear Luna..that now more of you are thinking that she is not s chi but a mixed breed puppy. She is just beautiful and I am sure she is fun to have around. Enjoy your special girl.

OMG this is starting to go like an episode of the childrens "Clifford the Big Red dog" ...:hello1:


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Quinn said:


> Okay for instance Phoebe at 3ish months.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks;-) I thought about adding my Danes growth plate as an example to ;-) Very noticeable difference in theirs, LOL!

What I was looking for last night is a normal Chi's growth plates as you added and then I wanted to find another breed that had a larger knot that was closer to the size of Luna's so she could see the difference.


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

This thread is very interesting. I hope we can all stay civil and friendly and learn from each other. That's what I love about this place. We all have our opinions and influences and we all love our dogs. That's obvious. 

The growth plate pictures were SUPER interesting to me. Thanks for posting those Quinn. 

And I must say cheekychi, it is amazing to me that you are only 16. Wow. I am VERY impressed with your attitude and also with your knowledge. We need more teens like you.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

haha Thanks!  i try to do my part! Thats why when everyone mentions about people who shouldnt breed and why dont i show my dogs properly ermm i cant show them professionally atm! haha That why i want to get my veterinary qualification whilst showing and my ultimate aim is boarding and show kennels, and im not gloating but i think im on my way lol x

FYI i didnt mention my age personally before as i wouldnt like/want to be treated like a child yes im not that old but im quite sensible and sisnt want slanderous comments


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Wow, this is very interesting. Thanks for that with the growth plates! Interesting stuff for sure. I will have to look more into it. It is obviously harder to see in chi's I guess then bigger dogs! lol i will have to go over willy and luna's yopunger pics to see the difference. Maybe later if I have some time I'll try to post some 

I think we should start a plate growth thread! ;-)


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I have a couple of questions for you. At what age did you get Luna and what other breeds does your breeder breed, if any? Have you kept up with her weight as a growing puppy? How much has she gained from lets say 4months to now? How much height has she gained, has she gained noticeable height in the last month? 


I have been looking at several breeds with longer legs that I myself think Luna could be crossed with, mainly paying attention to growth plates and size of legs, also the coloring.
I have been having some issues finding shots where the growth plates are easily seen. Below is a 4 month old Rat Terrier, they can get up to 35lbs and up to 18" tall. (in standard)









I also searched Min Pins they can get up to 13 lbs and 12.5 " (in standard). I looked at these due to the coloring and the fact that they were a larger scale smaller breed as well as the Rat Terrier above. I looked into Beagle to but the Beagle has shorter legs and their growth plates close earlier.


----------



## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

I think she is mixed with Rat Terrier. Pretty common Chi mix. I think her full growth weight will be around 13/14 lbs.


----------



## rubia (Jul 3, 2008)

She has that sturdy little terrier type build..do you think ??


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Wow the rat terrier looks like a large chi, that could be a definate possiblity for her mix.

No matter what just know that she is just a gorgeous girl, it really doesn't matter what she is mixed with, imo you should just get the little girl spayed, just my opinion though, I would never hate you if you didn't. x


----------



## Chiboymom (Jul 8, 2009)

Very interesting about the growth plates...I can totally see it in photos now. Nice to learn something like that. Thanks.


----------



## 3l3ctric (Apr 5, 2009)

It is obviously your choice to breed your dog, but like many people here, I would not feel right if I didn't voice my opinion (because cute little lives are involved! lol). 

I am sure you are not breeding with the goal of money in mind, but keep in mind how much it will cost you to breed. The best breeders, in my opinion, are actively involved in the world of dogs. Usually this means showing, but I am not stuck on that. I also consider agility, coursing, flyball, herding, etc. etc. to be "involved". Before breeding, they do all health tests that are recommended for the breed, they know the lineage of the breeding dogs (and I don't just mean pedigree- I mean that they've done research into what health problems have popped up into their lines). And the dogs are usually purebred unless they've specifically been bred for a non-conformation purpose. 

When all is said and done and they sell the puppies- which can usually fetch a high price tag because they come from known lines, known breeders, proven parents in some regard (show, agility, etc.), the parents have been health tested, etc. - the breeder rarely makes back the money spent on the whole process. 

Now, when you are dealing with dogs who fit little to none of the above criteria, and dogs who really are not in demand, then you certainly will not make a profit because you simply cannot charge very much. In fact, it is likely that you will be down a fair bit of money even if you have no complications to deal with. As well as the costs incurred in what I said above, you also need to keep in mind simple things like food costs (mum eats more and HIGH quality when with pups, and of course puppies need to eat). 

I live in Canada, and I would honestly be surprised if you could get much for any of these puppies. Chihuahuas are not in _that_ high demand. What if you have a litter of one or two? what if there are complications?

Anyways, aside from the money talk, there are Chihuahuas in need of homes in Canada:
http://www.ccrt.net/index.php
And those are the lucky ones in loving foster homes. Just because Chis aren't at your local humane society doesn't mean that there aren't too many Chis.

Not to mention that a quick kijiji search will show you how many puppies are just waiting around (and how many careless breeders there are). If you don't find a ton right now, check back as the weather gets warmer. The amount of Chis for sale pretty much triples once spring/summer hit.


----------



## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

I can't wait to see the pics & video of Luna when she was a wee pup!  

And I'll apologize here for your thread being highjacked (again). I still believe it's possible for her to be full blood Chi (being as - the best you can do, which you've stated you're already planning to do, is have a DNA test done prior to breeding. I think that's great! I understand people are entitled to their opinions but seriously - I'm getting annoyed by all the threads that are getting down right bossy replies (not even all are yours)...and they are not even my threads or my posts! Eeks! What a turn off....

Anyway, I can't wait to see Miss Luna's baby pics.


----------



## eagleschihuahuas (Nov 27, 2009)

Hi, well from looking at the pics of her here in uk we have jack russels and she does look a bit like one of them in the face the linger snout. I think she may be crossed but you just odn't know my chi princess is a 7/8 pounds and she is full chi just a big one and she is brilliant as a brood bitch, also i have been talking to my breeder who has been breeding for 30 years and she believes that it does not matter what size the mother or father is. A small stud dog can throw large pups and she has evidence of this from a champion chi tiny boy thre massive pups and her stud dog manny is 6 pounds and throws little pups. Also she believes that just because you have a big bitch does not mean she will have large pups either it is her breed history that will determine that. 
She has not breed for 3 years due to ill health and shown for 5 as her husbands ill health but a few top judges in england for chihuahuas use her stud dogs as they are brilliant line so am quite confident she knows what she is talking about. 
I know I am going to get some comments about this so I am ready, but if i was you i am trying to become a breeder so know what it feels like to want to breed i would prob not but it is up to you and me and others will support you no matter what you decide to do.
And yes I think it is getting a little long in the tooth all the post of anti breeding we have heard it all before me myself also but it is not going ot stop me i want to better the breed and stop all the people chaging the chi breed......


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Very interesting pic of the rat terrier. I will have to look up some more pics 
And as I have said, if Luna should become super big or with dna testing she proves to be a mix with a larger breed, I am not going to breed her.
The plate growth stuff is very fasinating, I will look forward to more pics and or discussions abouthis in other threads 

Luna's breeder wasn't breeding anything else I am aware of, though I did not see her entire place. 
Luna was 7 weeks when we got her. I didn't ever take her height but she has obviously gotten quite a bit taller since I've gotten her. I went and checked my vet recods and I might have made a mistake in an earlier post. She was 3.5 pounds. I think it was at her next month shots that she was 4.5, a pound heavier then Willy 
ok, so she was 3.5 pound when we got her and is now 7.7 pounds. We got her Nov 8th I believe. So in the 3 months we've had her she's gained roughly 4 pounds. Holy smokes! lol She HAS hit a serious growth spurt in the last month and a bit. At Christmas I took her to petsmart to get her pic taken with Santa and she was the same size as my friends chi Neko and now she is a ton bigger lol I will try to take a pic and post the Cjristmas pic of her and take a new pic of what she looks like TODAY. 

Anyway, off I go, I can only sigh, this thread is tiring me out big time. I have a new thread to post....


----------



## 3l3ctric (Apr 5, 2009)

I'm sorry if you're sick of people being against breeding, but quite frankly... if you have reasonable answers or replies to peoples' concerns then it really shouldn't be a big deal. 

You said that there aren't very many Chis for adoption in Canada, so I posted a reply with a differing opinion. I think that's perfectly fine. As for the money question, a simple "I've thought about that and we have money saved in case of emergencies" or something would probably suffice. 

None of us want any bad to befall any Chihuahuas, I think we can agree with that. And you said yourself that you know there are risks involved in breeding, so we're just making sure that you really know what those risks are. It's not hijacking a thread if the starting post talks about breeding and then others continue on that theme. I just think that most BYBs start with good intentions- I'm not someone who thinks that everyone is out to make money by breeding huge numbers of dogs- but the fact is that not everyone who tries to do well succeeds. So, when I see things that suggest to me that someone is not covering all their bases when breeding (aka not even starting right), then I can't help but worry that everything will go downhill fast. 

It's not a personal attack, and you say that you won't be breeding for awhile anyways, so I don't know why you'd be so against talking through things. These threads can be extremely educational if people don't get defensive and leave. Good breeders can always back up their choice to breed. I don't think I've even been that bad, considering I'm not even saying that the dogs being bred need to be Champions and everything. I'm not even talking about being a "good example of the breed"- I think it's just important to make sure the dogs are healthy- physically and mentally- but you can't really know that when the dog is so young and has no real known history.


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Hey hun, I made a new thread yesterday, I think you should check it out.

I understand that people are being helpful and that is what I want. I think some of the posts go a bit harsh, but it is all a learning thing. I am not breeding Luna tomorrow, I may not ever breed her at all. I DO want to bred, but i am not going to jump into itblindly. I think everyone has jumped the gun on this a bit. i am BEGINNING a learning process, that is all.

Check out my other thread its called hit me with your best shot

I am not sick of people being against breeding. I am sick of being beaten over the head with it as if I intend to bred Luna tomorrow without a second though. LOTS of people do that, and I am not one of those people. I am beginning the process of learning about this stuff


----------



## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Tracilea, we are not really jumping the gun, you keep resurrecting the issue


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

i do not keep bringing it up. i just keep having to defend myself lol


----------



## Quinn (Dec 11, 2008)

Actually you do keep mentioning it. In your 1st post you said "I would like to breed Luna..." You know its a heated topic so by putting that in, even one line, it turns into a thing about Luna. And it doesn't matter if you want to breed her in 2 years or 2 weeks, everyone who is against it is still going to be against it. No one said you breeding her tomorrow is the problem. Or at least I never thought you would breed her before her time, and didn't get the impression anyone else thought so either.
I also don't think anyone is being overly harsh, I think you didn't expect to get such a big NO reaction and are annoyed by that. Because I read over the posts and people are adamant that you shouldn't do it, and firm, but no one is calling you out just to pick on you.

I'm glad you are now posting to find out more, and glad you are willing to learn! So many people aren't... I just hope that you aren't just saying you want to learn to appease people and are taking it all in and seeing the real issues. I really hope you do decide to wait and do it the right way, it will be so rewarding for you!


----------



## 3l3ctric (Apr 5, 2009)

Tracilea said:


> I am not sick of people being against breeding. I am sick of being beaten over the head with it as if I intend to bred Luna tomorrow without a second though. LOTS of people do that, and I am not one of those people. I am beginning the process of learning about this stuff


I will check out your other thread in a second. I just wanted to quote this, because I think you sum it up perfectly. Unfortunately, you get beaten over the head because a lot of people do go about it the wrong way. On an internet forum it is impossible to know who those people really are. You can say over and over again that you're taking your time- but lots of people say that and then end up breeding the moment they get a good chance.

I'm sorry if people are coming off as mean. I've been on the receiving end of internet crap before, so I really am sorry. Breeding is simply a subject that a lot of people are passionate about, and I would rather drill something into the brain of someone who doesn't need the advice instead of hold back and miss out on a chance to educate someone who really needs it. Please don't take it personally.


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Well, I got an e mail from Luna's breeder tonight and she says that Luna is a full chi She said alot of people think her female (Luna's mom) is a mini pin mix because she is big, like Luna around the 7 pound mark. I want to believe her because why would she lie to me at this point? I already have Luna, I'm not looking to give her back and I have told her I would like to breed Luna, so you would think if Luna was actually a mix, she would let me know at this point?
Anyway lol I sent her some pics of Luna and she said she is going to send me a bunch of pics of Luna when she was a baby and even some video! I will be excited to get that!! lol naturally I will share what I get with you guys hehehe 


THAT IS MY FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!!!  Quinn, I fully understand what you are saying, really I do. But, if you are going to repeat my words, please do it right. You said I said in my first post...I WOULD LIKE TO BREED LUNA......yes, I said that, but that was the MIDDLE of the sentance....the full sentance is....... 

I want to believe her because why would she lie to me at this point? I already have Luna, I'm not looking to give her back and I have told her I WOULD LIKE TO BREED LUNA, so you would think if Luna was actually a mix, she would let me know at this point?

The point wasn't about breeding Luna, the point was what had been said between the breeder and myself. What I said to her and what she said to me. And it was JUMPED on. It wasn't a breeding thread. it was a telling thread lol IF I made a post about breeding Luna and everyone came on and said NO you shouldn't do that and this is why blah blah blah....then thats one thing, THAT I would ask for. But since the thread wasn't about that, I just didn't like it being hijacked into something else.

This is a learning process and I WANT as much input as I can have before I go ahead with this, with Luna or with another chi. 

I am NOT annoyed that everyone is saying not to do it. What I AM annoyed about is every thread I post about Luna turns into a breed bashing thread somehow.

If I was just some idiot out to make a quick buck breeding dogs....One, I wouldn't go through such lengths to post on here about it, and TWO, I really wouldn't give a rats @@@ what any of you had to say about it.
I AM trying to find out about it and do it the right way, and the only annoying thing is my threads being hijacked 

FYI...I am not trying to appease anyone.....this is an internet chat and I have no one to appease. I am me and this is my life and I don't have to live it according to how anyone on the internet tells me I should have to  I'm not going to lie about anything for anyone on here 

That sounds harsh but its true. I know ALOT of you hide your true opinions on here for fear of....what I'm not even sure.....but if I WANTED to breed Luna without a care, I would and I would SAY so 

This post sounds nasty and it is not my intent to sound that way at all, I just want to say it as it is  I love being here and making friends with others like me who are nuts about our lil chi babies


----------



## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

rcj1095 said:


> I don't even post on this forum much anymore because nobody can give their opinions honestly on anything.


this is what i was saying to Suzanne (smallbutmighty) the other day, people on here dont like a any one to disagree with them, even if they are so clearly wrong or evan just lacking in knowledge. 



Tracilea said:


> Growth plates? She will soon be 5 months


firstly learn the anatomy of a dog before you think about breeding! this is aimed to every one not just tracilea.

maybe when you lean more about breeding then you will realise that Luna shouldn't be breed from. she is too big and you dont know her lines, iv spent hours on the internet and talking to breeders at shows to get pictures and meet the chihuahuas in perry and kissy's pedigrees so when i finally do breed them i will know the size, colours and faults being carried in there blood lines, i would never dream of breeding baby! I dont know her lines at all and she was obviously a throw back from something that wasn't a chihuahua.
just because you have a bitch now doesn't mean you should breed her. and as for using her as a practice for you that's crazy, she should be your pet, why would you want to put her to any harm? look at what's happening to the other lady's chis on the last thread i posted on (I have nothing against her breeding for pet as they are pure breed and kc reg) 
i my self have rescued a chihuahua (baby) who is so far from the standards that no one wanted her, the amount of time i have put into her to get her over the trauma from the first year of her life keeped in a tiny cage she could only just stand in is unreal, i hate to see irasponsiable breeders, like iv said before if you love chihuahuas then you should be breeding to the standards and not breeding your bitch because you THINK her puppys will be nice.

yes my post may be blunt but im not intentionally being horrible. just trying to keep you from making a mistake. i have your bitch and any future pups best interests at heart


----------



## Quinn (Dec 11, 2008)

Tracilea I did not misquote you at all, I never said that was your entire sentence I said that (and I quote) 
"In your 1st post you said "I would like to breed Luna..." You know its a heated topic so by putting that in, even one line, it turns into a thing about Luna."

It is true you said that in your first post. It doesn't matter if its an entire sentence, in the middle of a sentence, written backwards, upside down, people are still going to see those words and take issue. And since its been brought up in many another of your threads its obviously on people's minds. Honestly, and clearly you don't feel the same, I don't see an issue with people posting the information on your threads (obviously since I did it haha). I think that people just have the dogs best interest in mind. And they just hope that by putting it up everywhere that you, or someone reading your thread and contemplating breeding themselves will reconsider. 
Also, the reason people KEEP saying it is because you stated you wanted to breed her, people vehemently told you not to, but it didn't seem to change your mindset, as you had later posts that mentioned you still wanting to so everyone kept trying. Now it seems like you may seriously be reconsidering and waiting till you can get a different bitch, so it seems like maybe constantly giving you information worked, which is great because if one person can learn its a huge step. 

I wasn't sayin that it was what you were doing I said I hoped it wasn't. And appeasing people on here to get them to stop "hijacking" your threads would make sense since your getting bothered by it, so it wasn't a totally out there statement 

I do feel though, that you keep acting like people are being harsh or mean, when you are the one who seems to be reacting most strongly to what people are saying. I don't think any of my posts have been nasty, and I hope you don't feel I have either because I'm not trying to be rude. I'm trying to present information that will lead you to make a good decision.

And I'm not sure who isn't honest on these boards because they are afraid of other peoples reactions. I know I sure as heck speak my mind!


----------



## Lou_lou (Jul 23, 2009)

Quinn said:


> And I'm not sure who isn't honest on these boards because they are afraid of other peoples reactions. I know I sure as heck speak my mind!


haha i sure know you speak your mind  
but there have been plenty of times i have had to think twice about posting what I really feel and close the window in case I caused a argument (im not good with arguments lol)


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I for one think the reason everyone just took the breeding Luna thing and ran with it is just from shock. They new you were not even sure if she was a mix or could believe the breeder. It was rather shocking to see the doubt and then to see that Luna is only 5 months old and is already 7lbs, truthfully at the rate she has grown and with her larger features and the size of those growth plates I among other's here are convinced that she is most probably going to double in size by maturity. So most were just shocked. You have already said that if that happened then you wouldnt breed her...good for you 

I am glad that you are learning and taking this seriously, you are on the right track and I am sure you will make the right decision


----------



## 3l3ctric (Apr 5, 2009)

Please keep in mind that many people write responses with people other than yourself in mind. When people join forums, sometimes they search for previous posts either as part of researching or to avoid reposting, and so on. So, while we address you specifically in a post, many people will include perhaps more information than necessary, or will repeat things more than necessary. This isn't always something that's aimed at you.

It's just also a little hard to take you seriously when you say "I'm trying to learn to do this the right way", while even considering breeding Luna at this point. If you really want to do it the right way, breeding Luna should be waaayyy out of your head by now.

I'll try to butt out from now on.


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

I'm wrong. You're right. THE END


----------



## Quinn (Dec 11, 2008)

Tracilea said:


> I'm wrong. You're right. THE END


Who was that directed to?


This is in reference to this thread and you bowing out of the other convo in the other thread you started - Nobody (or at least most people from what I have read) is personally attacking you. Everyone is trying to give sound advice, and as was said it isn't all just for you, its for anyone reading to learn. I know in my posts when I say you I'm mostly using it as a general term to affect whomever is reading it. Anyway everyone is just saying what they feel they need to for the sake of you, your dog, and the breed as a whole. I hope even if you will not come back into the conversation of these threads you still read and take in information.


----------



## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Tracilea, chill out.. I know you probably feel that everyone or most are against you but from following this thread I have found replies to be very constructive and full of good advice.

The bit that confused me is this

Also it will be a learning experience for me as I do intend in the future to get a smaller girl (not too small I know, more standard) and breed her. I'd rather start off big like Luna since it seems to go better with bigger chi's so I have more expereince. 
Now when I say in the future, I am talking YEARS in the future like at least 10 

If you don't intend to breed until up to 10 years in the future why breed Luna? Not getting at you here I'm just baffled.

I have horses so its like me saying I am going to have a riding lesson soon because I want to start riding in 10 years time.. see what I mean.

My little Jake is being neutered today as eventually, sooner rather than later I'd like to get a little girlfriend for him but not to make babies.. Gosh I couldn't handle it.

I have no idea about bloodlines or anything to do with breeding and (again not getting at you) I think there are too many unwanted animals in society and I for one will not add to that number.

On your initial post where you say you told the breeder "I would like to breed from Luna" it does read like you have full intentions of breeding. Don't blame people for jumping on you as it is difficult to read emails, you can't see the person, hear their tone or anything so the reader can only percieve it as they read it.

I'd still be wary of what the breeder says regards being a full Chi and get that test done to find out for sure

Good liuck in whatever yu decide to do and don't take everything to heart (I know its hard) but I find everyone is trying to help you

Cheers

Deme x


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Some great advice given here but now we are beating a dead horse so I am going to close the thread as the original poster has gotten the point and she is on the right track by asking questions and sticking around and I am sure has learned a great deal.


----------

