# Raw diet: What is best menu/schedule?



## SSTARR1701 (Oct 31, 2011)

I'm going to try and put Quark on the raw diet. What I would like to know is what is the best way to schedule his different items? I know for the first couple of weeks he'll just get chicken, then I'll gradually start introducing other things. He is about 6-7 pounds so according to what I've read so far he should be getting about 3oz of food a day? Is that right? It doesn't seem like enough food for an entire day, even if he is using it more efficiently. I had the opportunity the other day to go to a new grocery store here, Western Beef. The whole back of the store where the meat/butcher is located is one giant walk-in refrigerator. They have *everything*! All types of meat, organs and all. And CHEAP! I also had my friend with me who put everything on her EBT card since its really "human" foodstuff and not pet food its covered. So it didn't cost me anything. I got chicken necks, chicken wings, beef heart, beef liver, beef kidney, lamb chops. I cut everything up into 1 1/2 ounce pieces and put it all in the chest freezer so its ready when he is. But I don't know how to divide things up for his meals to make sure he's getting the right ratios of 80% meat/10% bone/10% organ (5%liver). And for the first couple of weeks on chicken only, should every piece have bone in it? And should I take out small pieces of bone fragments he could swallow whole without at least a couple of chews first? I'm very paranoid about doing things like this. Too many times in the past trying to do what's 'good' and 'right' for someone or something has come back to bite me in the butt and end up costing me more money and heartache than if I had just left things as they were.


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

You don't have to balance everything daily. Most people do it over a week or so. The easiest thing for me to do was figure out how many ounces they eat in a week, then calculate how many ounces of bone, meat, and organ they would get. I just wrote it all down into a weekly schedule. 

If you are worried about small chunks of bone, you can hand feed those pieces to him until he understands that he needs to chew.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

You have the right idea and how awesome that you have such a great supplier!!! Wow!

I'd just start him on chicken. Just whack up a whole chicken into manageable pieces and hand it to him. I'd probably take off the skin/fat for a few days and see how he's doing and then add it back in a little at a time. 3 ounces seems a little low though for his size. Brody is 5 pounds, very active, and eats between 5-6 ounces a day. You can certainly start at a couple ounces in the a.m. and p.m. and then adjust up or down as needed. 

Do chicken with bone only for the first week and then you can gradually start adding in other proteins one bite at a time. Go slowly. No rush. 

I'd want a little bit of bone in each meal for now until stools are regulated, then you can gradually back off on the bone. 

Good luck and let us know how it's going!!

Be sure and check that the meat is NOT enhanced with a salt or broth solution. Read labels. Sodium should be 100mg or LESS per 4 ounce serving. Sodium can cause all kinds of havoc, so you want to avoid it.


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## SSTARR1701 (Oct 31, 2011)

> The easiest thing for me to do was figure out how many ounces they eat in a week, then calculate how many ounces of bone, meat, and organ they would get. I just wrote it all down into a weekly schedule.


That's a good idea. Its what I was thinking of doing, just didn't know if there was a better way.



> I'd just start him on chicken. Just whack up a whole chicken into manageable pieces and hand it to him. I'd probably take off the skin/fat for a few days and see how he's doing and then add it back in a little at a time. 3 ounces seems a little low though for his size. Brody is 5 pounds, very active, and eats between 5-6 ounces a day. You can certainly start at a couple ounces in the a.m. and p.m. and then adjust up or down as needed.


I got that amount from that calculator that was in a link on a post here. When I actually started to cut up the meat, a 3oz piece just seemed so small. He is very energetic, so I would think that fast metabolism would need more fuel. I have the chicken neck with bone, and I have the bone-in chicken wings to start him off with.




> Be sure and check that the meat is NOT enhanced with a salt or broth solution. Read labels. Sodium should be 100mg or LESS per 4 ounce serving. Sodium can cause all kinds of havoc, so you want to avoid it.


From what I could tell, I don't think most if any of the meats at this place are enhanced with anything. They aren't selling the mass produced, pre-packaged things like Perdue. They have a full butcher in there, and everything is cut and packaged right there in the market.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Sounds excellent! Just dive right in.  Let us know how it's going and we will help you.


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## SSTARR1701 (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks. I'll let you know. I also want to take pictures as I go along to see if I can tell if there's a difference in him i.e. coat condition, eye tearing, etc. I won't notice so much day to day, but if I can look back and compare I might see.


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## LostLakeLua (Sep 6, 2009)

This is pasted directly from my Kahlua's Raw Journey thread; after I had sat down and figured out what meals would be to properly balance the 80/10/10 ratio over one weeks time.

>>>
This is Kahlua's weekly meal plan; it's nonspecific when it comes to what protein source as I'm going to vary that... but "meat" is obviously just meat, either boneless or ground or whatever... "bone" refers to whatever bone-in we use, probably wings or chicken necks; and the liver/kidney is.. well.. liver/kidney. Most likely going to be beef liver and lamb kidney if I can find it today.

Monday:
AM- 1oz meat
PM- 1/2oz meat, 1/2oz liver

Tuesday:
AM: 1oz bone
PM: 1oz meat

Wednesday:
AM: 1oz meat
PM: 1/2oz meat, 1/2oz kidney

Thursday:
AM: 1oz bone
PM: 1oz meat

Friday:
AM: 1oz meat
PM: 1/2oz meat, 1/2oz liver

Saturday:
AM & PM: 1oz meat

Sunday:
AM: 1oz bone
PM 1/2oz meat, 1/2oz kidney

All you'd need to adjust would be the amount fed; so if he gets 3 ounces daily he'd be getting 1.5oz at each meal. (.75oz of each on the PM's where it's a split organ/meat day.) This was began AFTER the initial 2 weeks of cornish hen; and I tried to ease in other proteins slowly.


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## SSTARR1701 (Oct 31, 2011)

> This is pasted directly from my Kahlua's Raw Journey thread; after I had sat down and figured out what meals would be to properly balance the 80/10/10 ratio over one weeks time.


Thanks for that. I had remember seeing that while browsing through the forum, but couldn't remember who had posted it.

Okay, so I gave him his first chicken neck tonight. At first he didn't seem too interested. He took it right away, but then ran over to his nearest bed with it, left it there and came running back into the kitchen to keep trying to steal the cats' dinners - which he constantly does anyway. No matter how many times I tell him no, he won't stay away from the cat bowls. I'm having to feed the cats much less than I used to in hopes they finish before he gets to them, and I don't like having to do that. Anyway, back to the chicken. I picked it up and handed it to him again, and he took it and did the same thing. Took it and set it down on the floor next to his bed, licked it a few times, then ran back into the kitchen and looked at his bowl for his other food, then ran to the cats again. This scenario happened about five or six times. Only when one of the cats wanted the chicken did he take it and start to eat it. He did really good gnawing on it and crunching the bones. But he still seems hungry. He still goes and looks in his bowl, or runs around sniffing the floor like a street dog scrounging for every last crumb. How long does it take for them to settle into their new diet? Will he always be looking for more? I was thinking of getting a decent sized crate to use as his "restaurant". I would teach him to go in there for his dinner, making sure he eats right away while giving the cats the chance to eat their meals. I just don't want him thinking he's being punished.


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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

SSTARR1701 said:


> Thanks for that. I had remember seeing that while browsing through the forum, but couldn't remember who had posted it.
> 
> Okay, so I gave him his first chicken neck tonight. At first he didn't seem too interested. He took it right away, but then ran over to his nearest bed with it, left it there and came running back into the kitchen to keep trying to steal the cats' dinners - which he constantly does anyway. No matter how many times I tell him no, he won't stay away from the cat bowls. I'm having to feed the cats much less than I used to in hopes they finish before he gets to them, and I don't like having to do that. Anyway, back to the chicken. I picked it up and handed it to him again, and he took it and did the same thing. Took it and set it down on the floor next to his bed, licked it a few times, then ran back into the kitchen and looked at his bowl for his other food, then ran to the cats again. This scenario happened about five or six times. Only when one of the cats wanted the chicken did he take it and start to eat it. He did really good gnawing on it and crunching the bones. But he still seems hungry. He still goes and looks in his bowl, or runs around sniffing the floor like a street dog scrounging for every last crumb. How long does it take for them to settle into their new diet? Will he always be looking for more? I was thinking of getting a decent sized crate to use as his "restaurant". I would teach him to go in there for his dinner, making sure he eats right away while giving the cats the chance to eat their meals. I just don't want him thinking he's being punished.


I feed Penny in a crate, as Lion tries to steal her food. Lion eats on a towel if it a bone meal, or out of a regular bowl if it is just meat. I think chihuahuas always "look hungry". Penny constantly looks for crumbs on the floor, and she is not thin at all. You can always add a little water to his food (the meat-only meals) to make his stomach feel more full and slow him down. The longer it takes them to eat the meal, the more satisfied they feel.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Sounds pretty normal to me! Ever noticed how many toy and small dogs are overweight? They are constantly looking for food and snuffling around, acting starved. Once he gets going on the raw diet he should feel more satisfied. The water, protein, and fat will keep him satisfied longer than a carb heavy meal would.


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## Blue Chi (Oct 12, 2011)

I don't know if this will work for you but I'm training mine to stay on a blanket that I lay out for them. (I'm starting raw at almost the same time as you, btw. We've been at it for a little less than a week). They already seem to understand that if you want to eat then you have to stay on the blanket. Hercules did try to walk off with his today but I just took the meat and put it back on the blanket where he stayed and ate.

Hercules, who has been on kibble all his life (2 1/2) years has had the most trouble adjusting to raw. He seems to know he's supposed to eat the food but he's kinda shy about it. I have to really encourage him to go for it and sometimes I even hold it for him. Gunner, just a puppy, has had no probs since day 1! So a dog whose been on kibble all their life just may need time to adjust eating like, well, like a dog.

Both of mine act like they are hungry all the time too. Even right after eating. I think they would keep eating raw meat until they popped if I would let them!


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## SSTARR1701 (Oct 31, 2011)

> Both of mine act like they are hungry all the time too. Even right after eating. I think they would keep eating raw meat until they popped if I would let them!


That's how Quark acts, like what he just ate didn't mean anything.



> Once he gets going on the raw diet he should feel more satisfied.


I hope so. Right now feeding time is more like yelling time. I'll give him his piece of chicken, which he is taking more quickly, but also eating more quickly. Because he wants to hurry up and finish so he can go steal pieces of the cat food, or my great dane's food. He'll stand under my dane while he's eating to try and catch pieces of his kibble. And once the dane walks away, Quark will be stretching on his tip-toes to get into the dane's dish for whatever pieces of kibble are left over. I'm having to take the time to stand there each meal and keep chasing him away, but he won't quit. And I can't force my dane to eat every last bite. Heck, there used to be mornings he didn't want to eat right away at all, but would come back later in the day to eat. I can't let him do that anymore because I can't leave the food in the dish. Since Quark is so much smaller, its my thought that even a couple of pieces of kibble will ruin all the effects I'm trying to achieve with the raw diet. And I don't always have the time, and I never have the patience, to stand there and referee meals. I still have to buy a crate to try and train him to eat in. But that doesn't solve the overall situation of him getting into the other foods the minute I look away. I've been starting to try and find places to put the cat bowls, but the dane's bowl is where it is. And its on a stand so its up off the ground but that doesn't stop a determined chi.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

That sounds like a training problem. Hmmmmm..... the only thing I can think of is to feed him in a separate area from the cats and your other dog. A crate, or even in the bathtub. (I know some raw feeders who are germaphobes and feed their small dogs their raw meals in the tub on a non-slip mat. Then they can spray with a cleaner and turn on the shower and rinse.) 

I'm not sure how to keep him from trying to eat cat food. Can you feed the cats on top of the washer/dryer or on a high table that he can't reach? Cat food is pretty irresistible to dogs, it's high in fat/calories.

As for your dane, I'd just feed your dane and him in completely separate areas instead of trying to keep him away from the dane while he's eating. Then when the dane is done, pick up his dish and then let the chi out. There won't be anything left to steal. 

Sounds like a frustrating problem! I hope you can find a solution that works!


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## SSTARR1701 (Oct 31, 2011)

> the only thing I can think of is to feed him in a separate area from the cats and your other dog. A crate, or even in the bathtub. (I know some raw feeders who are germaphobes and feed their small dogs their raw meals in the tub on a non-slip mat.


I bought a medium sized crate yesterday to feed him in. I get the impression he's seen/used a crate before as he acted like he knew what it was before I even unfolded it and set it up. I put one of his pillows in there with his bowl and that's where I fed him this morning. He seemed quite comfortable in there to the point that once he was finished eating, he just laid down on his pillow. He didn't fuss about being in there at all. Luckily, I'm not a germaphobe, I wouldn't be able to live in my house with all the animals if I was. LOL



> I'm not sure how to keep him from trying to eat cat food. Can you feed the cats on top of the washer/dryer or on a high table that he can't reach? Cat food is pretty irresistible to dogs, it's high in fat/calories.


What I've been trying to do is feed the cats while Quark and my dane are outside in the morning and evening, then whatever they don't finish gets put up on the washer and on top of the microwave. Little by little, I think they're starting to learn to look for the leftovers up in those areas.



> As for your dane, I'd just feed your dane and him in completely separate areas instead of trying to keep him away from the dane while he's eating. Then when the dane is done, pick up his dish and then let the chi out. There won't be anything left to steal.


Now that I have the crate, I'll be feeding Quark in there. The problem is, my dane doesn't always eat each meal. Especially his breakfast. For the past nine years, I've put his food in his bowl each morning and evening. But some mornings, he'll just sniff it and walk away. I've never had to worry about that because I know it was available to him throughout the day to come back to. A lot of the time he would just end up eating his "breakfast" for dinner. But now, if he doesn't eat it, I have to take it away. Even though his bowl is up on a high stand, Quark can still reach when he stands on his back toes. Even though my dane would by his own choice, sometimes have only one meal a day, I feel bad not giving him the opportunity for the two, especially since if I switched him to once a day, that meal would have to be bigger, risking bloat/torsion - something danes are prone to. The only thing I can think of is to add some tasty treats to the danes meal to trick him into eating right away. 




> Sounds like a frustrating problem! I hope you can find a solution that works!


It is. And I'm sure in time things will work themselves out. I just have to try and have more patience.


On a brighter note - Quark seems to be doing very well on his new diet. He's had no problems with the raw chicken. No gagging, or spitting up, or trouble crunching the bones. I'm actually looking forward to being able to start giving him things other than the chicken. When he's ready for other things...would a whole small mouse be ok? I get the pre-killed frozen mice for my snakes and thought that might be a great whole food item to add to the menu.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

yes! Whole prey is excellent. It provides nutrients in the exact right ratios. Mice are great, as are rats, guinea pigs, and rabbits. Hopefully he will take right to them. Sounds like he is doing very well!


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## Angelyne (Dec 4, 2011)

I am quite surprised to be reading what i'm reading about feeding dogs raw food and even more surprised bones! 
I have always thought bones were bad for dogs. That they can cause problems with digestion etc. And, raw chicken?? I thought raw chicken or any meat was a no no with bacteria etc. Please someone tell me more about this. I am very interested. Thank you


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## Blue Chi (Oct 12, 2011)

Angelyne said:


> I am quite surprised to be reading what i'm reading about feeding dogs raw food and even more surprised bones!
> I have always thought bones were bad for dogs. That they can cause problems with digestion etc. And, raw chicken?? I thought raw chicken or any meat was a no no with bacteria etc. Please someone tell me more about this. I am very interested. Thank you



I was really surprised too. There's sticky at the top of the raw foods subforum. Great info there. You can also google "prey model raw diet for dogs" and find info. My dogs are now fed a combo of Ziwipeak dog food and raw.


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## tysoncallmetyty (Nov 21, 2011)

Oh my! Guinea pigs and rabbits!??? As a guinea pig and rabbit lover, I find this rather murderous.... wow... and my babies live with a house bunnie. I saw they had rabbit in the raw foods frozen section at my pet store, but I decided not to because I didn't want them going after my bunnie....yikes! Right now, them and the bunnie get along just fine.... if anything, the bunnie is more aggressive...lol.... and, guinea pigs are just too cute!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I agree, guinea pigs and rabbits are soooooo cute! I don't feed them either. But they are OK if you choose to do that. I'm more of the grocery store type of meat buyer. If it's in a package and nice and clean, I don't have to think of the animal it came from.  I think that's true of most people.

Oh, and just to clarify... I know people who feed guinea pigs and rabbits as whole prey (killed or course) to their dogs and also have them as pets. They don't go after the live pets. They don't recognize them as food, they are part of the pack. Same goes for people who live on farms and have chickens. Even if their dogs eat chickens regularly, they don't kill the ones in the flock.


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## tysoncallmetyty (Nov 21, 2011)

That's nice to know Broudy's mom. It's the difference between being a predator and being a prey animal; bunnies and guineas are at the bottom of the food chain... and, riding horses I have learned what being a non-predator means and the mentality of a non-predator. Dogs are predators, that's why I only wanted to have one with all the farm animals I have, but Tyson was just too irresitable and now I am learning so much from this forum. I didn't think that Chi's needed all this special attention due to their small size, but it makes so much sense. And, then I see how beautiful all the Chi's on this forum are who are fed correctly. Both my dogs can not wait to get their raw rations at night... I'm feeding insight frozen, I think that's the correct name... and, little Tyson's poop is so much healthier, but stinkier, and overall he is smelling better... I want the best for both my little dogs.... I think my little rat terrier has chi in him too, his ears are just too big! And, he the BEST doggie! I'm so glad I am beginning to feed them correctly!


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## tysoncallmetyty (Nov 21, 2011)

I was always feeding a grain free kibble, but Tyson's poop was all atrophied and hard on that. The water content of raw makes a lot of sense. They still get free feed grain free kibble while I'm at work. jBut they would much rather be eating raw. I think it's interesting that some people's dog prefer the kibble and have problems with raw.............. I've also been feeding raw eggs with kibble at night, and before I was feeding them hard boiled eggs as a treat......I used to never be sure if raw eggs were okay or not, but I guess they are.....


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