# Breeding



## Penny's momma (Feb 7, 2006)

I've heard that small chi's are hard to breed because of their size. Is that true? We were thinking of breeding ours, but not sure if it is safe or not. She is still a pup right now, this is for when she is older.


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## Isshinharu (Jan 27, 2006)

You don't want to breed a large male to a small female, that's for sure. This increases the chances of larger pups that will be hard for the dam to birth and increase the chance of requiring a c-section. If your females anticipated weight is 5-6#, I wouldn't see a problem breeding her to a 4# male. Keep in mind, those are adult weights. If you breed your male chi who's not done growing, this doesn't mean that because he's only 3# at the time it's ok. His genes, not his size at the time of breeding, determine the pup size. Just my opinion.


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## lalaNlucky (Jan 10, 2006)

i'm sorry to tell you but, your uncertainty with the breed is fine for being a chi owner, but not a breeder..
breeders spend years and years breeding pups with great personalities & who fit the breed standard, there are enogh homeless pups out there & qualified breeders.

it's not something you just do, it costs a lot of money, a lot of time & a lot of experience.


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## kenya (Dec 19, 2005)

Here is some information to consider, from the Humane Society:

Neutered/spayed pets are less aggressive, less likely to fight, and less likely to bite, as documented in studies. 

Neutered/spayed pets (especially males) are less territorial and less likely to roam. Research indicates that 80% of dogs hit by cars are unaltered males. 

Neutered pets are less likely to mark furniture and rugs with urine. 

Spayed females will not have heat cycles that soil rugs and furniture and usually shed less fur. 

Neutered pets can't develop testicular tumors, the second most common malignancy in males, and have a lower incidence of prostate cancer, which is better for your pet and means lower medical bills. 

Spayed females typically stay healthier and live longer. They have a lower incidence of mammary tumors and no uterine or ovarian cancers, which is better for your pet and means lower medical bills. 

Sterilization does not change the pet's personality or cause weight gain. 

Removing the urge to mate focuses more of a pet's attention on the caregiver, aiding in training. Sterilized pets behave better



We all here love our dogs and want the best for them and if they have offsprings we would want the best for them too. what of they end up at the animal shleter?

I agree with the previous poster. There are a lot of homeless animals at animal shelters and rescue groups already. 

JMO :wave:


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## Penny's momma (Feb 7, 2006)

*I didn't say it was something you just do*

:roll: Thanks for your thoughts. I was just asking a question. I never said I was going to do it for sure. I am well aware that you need to be a breeder and it costs money. That wasn't the point of my question. I just wanted to know if it was safe. I will talk to my vet about it.


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## dlambertz (Nov 13, 2005)

even though it is said may as well add my 2 cents ... breeders breed for the betterment of the breed. not to have puppies or put a buck in their pocket. what is the reason you want to breed your female? does she have an awesome personality? so do many other chi's out there. does she have an outstanding show record? is she up to the akc standard? 
just make sure that your female is worth breeding before making that decision. i have a afghan hound pup who is from very top of the line blood. her daddy is the number 2 afghan in the nation right now. i spayed her two weeks ago  i will not add to the pet population ... i will leave that too the breeders who want to make improvements on the breed. i have 4 female dogs and i am proud that each and every one of them are spayed


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## lalaNlucky (Jan 10, 2006)

but you arent even qualified to be considering it..is the point
you can ask your vet all you'd like
1/2 of us here aren't qualified to breed any of our pets either.


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## Isshinharu (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: I didn't say it was something you just do*



Penny's momma said:


> :roll: Thanks for your thoughts. I was just asking a question. I never said I was going to do it for sure. I am well aware that you need to be a breeder and it costs money. That wasn't the point of my question. I just wanted to know if it was safe. I will talk to my vet about it.


Which is exactly why I shared my thoughts on it. Hope I was of help. :wave:


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## Isshinharu (Jan 27, 2006)

lalaNlucky said:


> i'm sorry to tell you but, your uncertainty with the breed is fine for being a chi owner, but not a breeder..
> breeders spend years and years breeding pups with great personalities & who fit the breed standard, there are enogh homeless pups out there & qualified breeders.
> 
> it's not something you just do, it costs a lot of money, a lot of time & a lot of experience.


How did those breeders get started? I bet... they did tons of research, and asked a zillion questions. Hmm... 

If the thread starter is interested in breeding, wouldn't it be better if instead of just telling them they're not fit for breeding... explain to them the responsibilities and the work and dedication it takes? Your response to their post was as if they were going go breed their chi as soon as they got an answer, which from my deduction of the post, is not the case. This is like telling a child no... without giving them an explanation as to why. This doesn't help them to learn, it only discourages them, and keeps them from asking other pertinent questions in the future. :?


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

i AM a breeder, even more so i am a 3rd generation breeder 2nd generation chi breeder.
some BIG rules for breeding.
The female Must NEVER be bred on her first heat, this is very dangerous. wait till shes at least 1 year old her 2nd or third heat is a safe bet.
before you even consider it expect to spend at least $250-$500 to have your vet check her over do x-rays to make sure her pelvis is big enough, and to run blood tests to make sure she is in prime health for breeding.
also expect to do alot of reaserch into your dogs genetic lines, your probably going to need to contact the registy to get her expanded pedigree. your also going to need to know at least her partns and grandpartens health and temperment.
and your female should be AKC (ckc is pushing it) registered and of show quality.
(to determin if shes show quality expect to pay large amounts of money training her to show and taking her to shows, if you dont plan on showing she hould at the very least be evaluated by at least 1 show judge and at least one experienced breeder. (the point of breeding is to better the breed, if your dog has any faults (which most do and unless your experienced in handling and showing your not going to notice)
to get a good result from a judge or breeder your dog is going to need to be absolulty perfect to the breed standar, this includes angle of the head, top line, bite, ear size and flare, leg length, body lenght, the way the dog holds its tail, the way she walks...(its not just a matter of saying oh my chis cute ill breed her or oh my chi looks like that picture, shes worthy of showing...many faults are difficult if not impossible to see by the untrained eye.
she should be AT LEAST 5lbs in weight! any smaller than that, the risk of her having difficulty during the birth increases eponentially.
she should ALWAYS be bred to a male much smaller than her, (for a 5lbs female even a 4lbs male is too big!)
the male you chose should also be akc registerd, and at the very least evaluated by a judge and breeder and your going to need to look into his genetic lines too, he might be tiny, but could be carrying the genes for larger babies which can kill your female.
He too should also be vet checked and tested ect.

before breeding takes place BOTH dogs need to be tested for a sexually transmitted disese in dogs, (at least another $75 per dog)

then your also looking at the stud fee, chihuahua litter average 2 puppies...a stud fea for a good stud male thats worth breeding with is going to be the average cost for a puppy...or the studs owner will ask for pick of the litter, if your chi only has one or 2 puppies, doesnt leave you with many to sell now does it?!

then you have to wait till she comes into heat (yes your going to need to start doign this months in advance) once shes in heat MOST stud owners have your female go to their house, and stay there for the duration of the breeding, this could be anythign from 3 days to 2 weeks. YOU have to cover the cost of transporting her to the stud owners, some stud owners also charge you a kennel fee for keeping your female there.

once she comes home she will need alot of extra attention, her personality will change so will her eating habits. shes going to become very clingy and needy, and you need to keep an eye out for strange discharges, dogs can have miscarriges too!
at 30 days into the pregnancy she will need to go back to the vet for an ultrasound to see how many puppies and what size there going to be...some chihuahuas will have one puppy that will grow very large, some females will carry 4 or more but if even one puppy looks to be too large to pass through the birth canal your looking at a c-section. the ultrasound is gonna cost you quite a bit of money.
as time growscloser your going to have to increase her food intake.
during this time you should also be buying/making a whelping box, to buy a deacent one your looking at at least another $100. your going to need a scale and lots of towels, a heating pad, medical scisors and cotton and steralizing eqiptment, your instuments alone can run up a little bill...
for about a week before shes due expect to not sleep, and if you work your going to need to arrange for at least a week or so off work or hire an expereinced breeders sassitant to come in and watch the babies while your out. when she finally goes into labour expect to be up all night most dogs deliver in the middle of the night, your going to need ot keep a close eye on her. even if she passes her first puppy correctly something could go wrong, the puppy may not be revivable, your going to need to have either your vet on clal or allerted the emergency clinic...at any time during the labour she could start struggling in which case your lookign at a rush to the vet, your regular vet will probably charge about $1000 for a c-section, while an emergency vet can cost much more...

even with a god size female during the pregancy SHE can die! are you prepared for that possibility...
ou could alos lose any and all puppies...whihc leaves you with nothing...

during natural birth something as simple as retaining a placenta is a BIG problem!

assuming all goes well your looking at sleepless nights mabe a pup wont suckle...in which case your looking at bottle feeding him every 2 hours and stimulating him to expell his bladder and intestines...

as they grow up expect to give up a room in your house to the rampaging puppies, expect to be CONSTANLTY picking up messes. your also going to have to keep a close eye on your female, she can get infections from blocked mammery glands or from during the birth.
your going to have to pay for the dewclaws of the pups removed if you go this rout your also going to have to pay for dewormings and shots and at least 2 full vet checks per puppy...cost of extra food for weaning, and the time involved in properly researching homes for the puppies. plus the extra food for mama dog whos now in need of gaining strenght back from looking after the pups (even one can drain a chi mamma)

rember, chis should also be kept with thier chihuahua families untill 12 weeks old...by that point puppies are messy loud and eating quite a bit.

BELIVE me...even if you had a litter of 6 puppies...by the time you add up all the costs of the entire ordeal youll never recoup the money spent on breeding properly.
not to mention the heartach of losing puppies or losing the female...

youd think once the puppies have all found homes your job is done...nope, expect to be available to any puppy owner for questions and concerns, if one of the puppies get sick from something from your kennel or a genetic problem hidden in either dogs lines, are you willing to pay for that...
then along the line if for some reason the owner cannot keep the puppy, are you willing to take it back into your home and try to rehome it (even if it has behavioural problems) what about an elderly dog...12 13 years down the line they dont want the dog anymore cause its old, are you willing to accpt it into your home for the rest of its life?! elderly dogs arre rarely adopted...

and this isnt EVERYTHIGN included in breeding...

if your REALY interested, try and find a local breeder preferably an AKC breeder and see if there willing to take on a voluneer breeders assistant.
many are happy for a little extra free help during thier dogs pregnancy and whelping, and you will get to learn first hand what goes into breeding properly.
also talk to breeders, anyone thats been breeding for a good few years will tell you theyve lost at least one female during breeding. or how theyve lost entire litters of puppies.
also look into getting to some dog shows, and get the female your planning on breeding in those shows and see how she does.

I suggest AT LEAST 5 years reaserch before even thinking of breeding any dog, let alone one as delicate as a chihuahua.

unfortunatly many people thing breeding is as easy as putting a male and female together...and as you se form the above...its NOT that easy...
its NOT any way of making money..profesional breeders will tell you by the time the puppies go home there lucky if they break even on the money side.

other things to consider with an intact female is there is a high risk of mammary and cervical cancers, during her cycle shes going to get pms'y just liek people do, she could be snappy and agressive, shes also going to leave little spots of blood everywhere, intact females tend to be more domainant agressive, hump more (just like males) and have big mood swings, their coat is usually never as nice as a spayed females would be.
not to mention the racket eveyr night by your house of every intact male in the neighbourhood trying to get in...
i would probably get your little girl spayed and spend the next few years REALY looking into and aprenticing with some good breeders...

and not to mention do you realy want to add ot the pet overpopulation problem.

hope this helps, it is probably more information than you wanted but everyone needs to be aware of what goes into it...its not just a matter of chosing to pretty looking dogs of the right kind of sizes...

Id be happy to answer any other questions you have, my grandfather bred chis for over 30years i was lucky to learn from him...my mother bred cocker spaniels and siamese cats, so i also saw that those same processes i was learing from grandad was how it worked in any breeding situation.


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## Penny's momma (Feb 7, 2006)

*great info*



foxywench said:


> i AM a breeder, even more so i am a 3rd generation breeder 2nd generation chi breeder.
> some BIG rules for breeding.
> The female Must NEVER be bred on her first heat, this is very dangerous. wait till shes at least 1 year old her 2nd or third heat is a safe bet.
> before you even consider it expect to spend at least $250-$500 to have your vet check her over do x-rays to make sure her pelvis is big enough, and to run blood tests to make sure she is in prime health for breeding.
> ...


 Thanks for the really helpful info. I appreciate it. I will consider everything you said. My girl is probably not big enough to have pups and I would never put her at risk. It was just a question, like I said. :wink:


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## canadiandawn (Jan 11, 2006)

Wow Foxy, that was very informative. Shiver is fixed and I never even considered breeding her but have always wondered. I think you just answered any question I've ever had or will have. I never realized so much was involved.


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## Penny's momma (Feb 7, 2006)

*Yes, actually.*



dlambertz said:


> even though it is said may as well add my 2 cents ... breeders breed for the betterment of the breed. not to have puppies or put a buck in their pocket. what is the reason you want to breed your female? does she have an awesome personality? so do many other chi's out there. does she have an outstanding show record? is she up to the akc standard?
> just make sure that your female is worth breeding before making that decision. i have a afghan hound pup who is from very top of the line blood. her daddy is the number 2 afghan in the nation right now. i spayed her two weeks ago  i will not add to the pet population ... i will leave that too the breeders who want to make improvements on the breed. i have 4 female dogs and i am proud that each and every one of them are spayed


 I am just looking for helpful info at this time. My chi is akc and ckc and has great bloodlines and show quality in the family. I am not in anything for the money. It was just curiosity of the whole breeding world. :wink:


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

im glad i managed to offer some incite, as i said most people have no clue, and through no fault of their own either...its just sometimes difficult to find this informations especially with the big boom in internet puppymills and brokers and backyard breeders, unfortunatly even a puppymill wiht a nice page is easily mistake for someoen who knows and cares about what there doing...
I have no problem wiht poeple who want to breed as if noone did we'd lose the breeds we know and love, i just try and make everyone considering it aware of whats involved so they dont just jump head first and end up crashing...

even IM starting small, ive finally decided to breed again (when we moved to the US i had to leave ll my grandfahters chis with him and he retired just before we left getting all his remaining females fixed (most were around 5 years old anywayz which is his retiring age, he now has a pack of fixed chis of a total of 15 dogs, (5 males 10 females) ranging in aes from 5 ears olf to 15years old), so im starting my (what will always stay a small) "kennel" with an awsome female and a great male...i plan on expanding and getting a second female hopefully soon...
but i will never be big time breeder im hoping to have mabe 4 females and 2 males. but to get the best quality lines i can is going to take lots of reaserch and time. and its taken me 5 years to decide to start out again, and its only this past week ive decided for sure to go ahead. im hopig for my first breeding as my own "kennel" in may when vixies due to come into heat.


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## Moka-papa (Jan 30, 2006)

*Your info should become a "Sticky"*

Wow, that's excellent information and should become a permanent post. Everyone, regardless if they want or don't want to be a breeder, should read it. I myself am not interested in being a breeder but your post shared so much light on all the commitment, dedication, expense, and time given by our breeders just to get us our fur babies.

Thanks, breeders! :wave:


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## Nona (Mar 27, 2005)

That big post was very interesting and informative, if I ever get into breeding it'll be at least another 10-15years away and I would spend a long time researching first. I'd also make sure I had the money to spend on all of those things listed before even thinking of breeding.

Great info, I hope foxywench's info becomes a permanent thread too.


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## Kristin (Nov 12, 2004)

I think foxywench pretty much answered your question huh? lol foxy you always have the best information for everyone! I never knew you were a breeder though. 

I had considered breeding Lina until I asked the ladies here what thier thoughts were. After I found out that it was a possibility that I could lose her or the pups, or even both. I decided against it. My bf was a little dissapointed cause he saw dollar signs at the time :roll: , but it was my decision and I couldn't risk losing my little girl 

I'm sure you'll make the right decision for your little one  Especially now that foxywench has given you all that information .


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

Foxy I have tried explaiing the same thing however, you do it in a way that is very articulate. Im always accused of being nasty what it boils down to is thats what I have been trying to say every time i get that question lol


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## Ory&C (Mar 20, 2005)

Good information is always welcome! :wave: I have been trying to come across with some facts as well, but no matter how hard I try, some people decide not to listen. For example people that decide to breed unregistered dogs. If they are unregistered, that means they are unregistered for a reason..... it's either they were sold as pets only (because the breeder thought they're only pet quality, therefor not perfect examples of the breed), or perhaps their parents were not unregistered either (even worse, because you never know what you're going to get) or perhaps the dog himself or his parents suffer from some hereditary disease and you seriously don't want to breed those animals!!


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

some people just don't want to hear it they know it all after all I am a puppy milll and know nothing of what i am talking about :roll: 
:banghead:


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## Penny's momma (Feb 7, 2006)

*whatever*



janiebabes said:


> some people just don't want to hear it they know it all after all I am a puppy milll and know nothing of what i am talking about :roll:
> :banghead:


I'm not sure if that was meant for me or not. If it was, I was just asking a question, and I got my answer. Never said I knew it all. :cussing:


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## Bijou (Aug 6, 2005)

If a person wants to breed their dog and take all those risks with their mommy dog it is their choice. If they've done their research and decide to do it anyway, oh well. I'm sure it isn't illegal. We may not all agree with it ( I for one, do not) but I don't think it's any reason to belittle anyone.

And, I don't know how many people here bought their Chi's from a "perfect" breeder with showlines and meet all the requirements that have been mentioned but I know I did not. And I am very happy with my "back yard breeder" pup. However, I chose to spay her to avoid any health-related problems that staying intact may cause and I have no wish to put her life at risk to have a litter of pups.

But for those of you who do, please don't stop coming here and asking questions :wave: .


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## dlambertz (Nov 13, 2005)

Ory&C said:


> If they are unregistered, that means they are unregistered for a reason..... it's either they were sold as pets only (because the breeder thought they're only pet quality, therefor not perfect examples of the breed), or perhaps their parents were not unregistered either (even worse, because you never know what you're going to get) or perhaps the dog himself or his parents suffer from some hereditary disease and you seriously don't want to breed those animals!!


there are dogs sold on limited registration all the time and not due whether the dog is show quality or not. mia's breeder will sell you a show quality dog at a pet price with a limited registration...you can pay for full registration but the price increases substantially ...


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

pennys momma i dont think that was meant as an insult to you! you have not once given me any reason to belive you are not listening and that is very impressive, instead it was aimed i elive at poeple who arnt interested in the answers they get...

i too have run into brick walls tryint to explain to people why they shouldnt breed there dogs, because some people realy do feel they know it all, or you have those that come here ask about bereeding only to literally toss away or bash any comment that is not exactly what they wanted... (if we dont turn aorund and say "sure, beeding your 3lb female from unregistered parents, has a "deer head" and on its first heat to a 5 lb male is a great idea" they automatically start telling us we dont know what were tlaking about or just completly ignore it or try to convince us that they know better because some frined of thiers said it would be ok ect...soooo many poeple come here asking for adivce...its just a refreshing change to see someone actually listening to it!

dont worry, your welcome to ask as many questions as you like, its people who actually respond well to advice that we want around here.

but yes, even a post liek the one i made will more often than not fall on deaf ears to someone whos just looking or me to say "yeah good idea" and that IS like banging your head into a brick wall...


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## Tammie_B (Nov 19, 2005)

With all due respect, that is a bunch of crap. There are many breeders out there (that many of these people here have purchased chis from) that are not breeding for the betterment of the breed. Many breeders do it for a business and a profit. SOME do it for betterment of the breed. Everyone always has an "opinion" with this issue but every breeder started as an amateur and learned along the way. This person was asking questions about breeding to educate themselves... not for a "DO NOT BREED" lecture. I just think that people should think before they type and point the person in the right direction for information rather than lecture. Most people here giving the advice don't have breeding experience - just an opinion on breeding.

Sorry, I am off the soapbox now.

Tammie




dlambertz said:


> even though it is said may as well add my 2 cents ... breeders breed for the betterment of the breed. not to have puppies or put a buck in their pocket. what is the reason you want to breed your female? does she have an awesome personality? so do many other chi's out there. does she have an outstanding show record? is she up to the akc standard?
> just make sure that your female is worth breeding before making that decision. i have a afghan hound pup who is from very top of the line blood. her daddy is the number 2 afghan in the nation right now. i spayed her two weeks ago  i will not add to the pet population ... i will leave that too the breeders who want to make improvements on the breed. i have 4 female dogs and i am proud that each and every one of them are spayed


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## Blue Velvet Elvis (Dec 23, 2005)

I think the word reputable should have been placed before breeder ...


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## Isshinharu (Jan 27, 2006)

foxywench said:


> dont worry, your welcome to ask as many questions as you like, its people who actually respond well to advice that we want around here.


... and it's people like you (who provide helpful responses to questions that people have) that make people stick around... especially those who respond well to the advice that veterans, such as yourself, provide. You put forth the information in a non-persuasive way... just facts, with no apparent intention to sway the thread starters decision. You educate people, yet leave it up to the person to make the right decision... that's very commendable.

THAT is something I wish that other members around here would see.

:wave:


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

*blush*


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## peanutnpepper (Nov 8, 2005)

Isshinharu said:


> foxywench said:
> 
> 
> > dont worry, your welcome to ask as many questions as you like, its people who actually respond well to advice that we want around here.
> ...



I totally Agree!


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## *Andrea* (Jan 30, 2006)

I would just like to add that i appreciate Foxy's input! I get intimidated when people are rude about questions like this and I appreciate that you were not intimidating. 
I agree that a lot of thought needs to go into this decision. My mom is a breeder so I have learned first hand how risky and expensive it could be. I appreciate Penny's Momma looking into this and asking questions before she makes her decision!
I know a lot of this has all been said but I am of the opinion that positive reinforcment is more effective than negative! I hope you all have a wonderful day! :wave: 

likespink


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## lullemi (Feb 17, 2006)

That was a very good informative about breeding. 
Thank you! :thumbleft:


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## lullemi (Feb 17, 2006)

lullemi said:


> That was very good information about breeding.
> Thank you! :thumbleft:


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## tiny- dog- luverr (Oct 28, 2005)

foxywench sent you a pm!!! :wink:


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## kipbug (Oct 9, 2005)

There's alot of interesting information in this thread  I'm curious, At what age can you breed a male if you so desire? I noticed it was said not to breed a female on her first heat, but do males have any special rules (eg: not before they reach a certain age, or weight?)


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## Gypsy (Feb 13, 2006)

Both AKC and CKC require him to be 7 months old I believe. Males usually are fertile at six months but I would always suggest waiting until they are fully mature to get an accurate size and be able to assess their temperment and quality before deciding to breed him.


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## foxywench (Feb 7, 2005)

as was said they CAN get a female pregnant at 6 months so long as both his testicles are present, however due to him not truly being full size and build till around 1 yr i wouldnt suggest breeding any male untill at least 9months to a year (by that time he should be almost done with his growing and youll have a better idea of what his body structure is like...this is also around the times when faults that havent shown up before may start comming through (coat texture, bite, ect) by this time too you should also be noticing any kinds of personality flaws that are lielkley to be problems into adult hood, before 8 months his temperment is still emerging, i would like to add, while breeding a male isnt as risky as it is with females you still have the issues of breed standard, and an intact male can and will cause chaos in your house...marking, possible dog agression ect, and before any breeding make sure to have the male fully vet checked, blood tests and tests for a dog specific sexually trasmitted diseses, also be prepared that some breeders have a clause in their contract stating that if the female should need a c-section the owner of the stud is responsible for half of the cost...


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