# Grade 2 Dahlia-Boo



## 17428 (Jul 10, 2009)

Well Dahlia went for her yearly shots and checkup.
The place totally changed hands and there was a nice young vet there.
He was an answer to prayer as far as chis and being a better communicator.
We found out she is a grade 2 in both knees.She has never acted
in pain but her legs do act weak and wobbly.She weighs just 3.2 down from 3.13 when she was spayed.We took her off store bought treats.

Should I stash money away each month for her possible surgery
or try to find a good insurance company for her?
Are they real $$$$$??????
Oh I dont know how to tell my husband all this.
We have health issues developing for ourselves now that we are getting
older and cant afford to deal with.How do I tell him about this?

Oh she was such a sweetheart there at the vets! He said she was special
and in his "top 10 of all time" for chihuahua patients.He just praised her up and down.She didnt bat an eye when she got her "jabs".
Any advice on the LP insurance issue is appreciated. Thanks chi friends.


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## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm sorry to hear about the LP.  I don't know much about it but I'd personally try to set some $$ aside each week/month for it rather than spend money on insurance. Plus I don't know if some pet insurances do a "pre existing condition" thing or not. But at least if you put the money away for it you'll have it for when you need it. 

Sounds like the vet was fabulous though--and Darla did so great. What a sweet heart she sounds like.


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

Most insurance's won't cover it because it's a congenital problem in them, which most exclude. We normally do surgery when they are grade 3 or 4 (meaning the knee can't stay in place it pops in & out all the time). I would put her on a good glucosamine /chondroitin supplement (I use Phycox for Zoey) that will help keep things lubricated and possibly prevent further damage. The average price for surgery I think is about $1000 per knee, although I have heard it higher & lower than that.


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

Sorry to hear about dahlia. You should probably tell your breeder as it's hereditary. 

Unfortunately an insurance company won't insure her for her lp so you're going to have pay for any operations yourself!! It's about £4000 surgery here. 

Also put her on a glucosamine supplement asap and fish oil


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## 17428 (Jul 10, 2009)

Thank-You everyone.
Yes I pretty much expected that the ins wouldnt
go as it is a pre-existing condition.Dahlias breeder no longer
breeds chis and now breeds bishons mainly.She had a 6 yr
health guarantee for heriditary disease.She refunds the cost
of the chi.That means Id have to give Dahlia back to her 
and I cant make myself do it.Shes my Babe and todays news is breaking my heart.


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

That guarantee sucks! I mean it's nice that she guarantee's them but what's the point if you have to give the dog back? Sorry to hear that.


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## cherper (May 8, 2009)

I'm sorry to hear that.  That guarantee is LAME!!!!! That makes me mad, as it's so stupid.

Yes I second the fish oil and glucosamine, those will help in the time being. It's good she's such a tiny little dot, as excess weight would've hurt her more.


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

So sorry about Dahlia, but try not to let it get you down. She is still a healthy and happy little girl.  Definitely get her on a good glucosamine supplement. I personally wouldn't operate unless it was stage 3 or 4 and/or slipping more than not. This is what an excellent ortho surgeon once told me.


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## Terri (Aug 21, 2009)

Awww no Rhonda am so sorry!
Yeah i agree i would just start saving till she needs the surgery.

So if you already have insurance and then your dog gets this, would they pay up?
I hope i never have to find out of course.

Anyway give Dahlia kisses from me.
I am sure your hubby will surprise you as i know he loves that wee sweetheart as much as you. xxx


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## 18453 (Feb 6, 2010)

If you are insured before they show symptoms or are diagnosed yes you're insured... So daisy is insured should hers ever need surgery


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## AC/DC Fan (Sep 15, 2010)

Bizkit's knees were diagnosed in February as 2.5s. My vet said they don't consider surgery unless they are a 4. He has an Rx of Meloxicam that I give him when he needs it. I do try to give it only when he needs it though. Otherwise, he gets a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement every day (which the vet recommended), and his food has those items plus the Omega 3 and 6. I will tell you that I've definitely seen improvement from these measures. Now when I watch him walk from behind, I don't see his knees popping out to the sides as they used to. He's a pretty happy boy.
Try not to be so downhearted. There is still hope for improvement.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

We have been using Hylox lately for our joint supplement, I would give her 1 a day, 1/2 in the AM, 1/2 in the PM. Give it with meals as it can upset her tummy. That is "more" than the bottle will recommend, but it will give her more immediate support  I'd also consider getting a 2nd opinion on her knees... but yes, now that a vet has it on file that she has LP, no insurer will cover it. Had you had insurance prior, it would be covered.


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## 17428 (Jul 10, 2009)

*salmon oilmega 3-6-9*

Would this be a good choice for omega 3 & 9??
Here is a ebay link:
Arctic Paws Salmon Oil-Dogs-OMEGA-3 and OMEGA-6 8oz - eBay (item 350374235604 end time Oct-13-10 16:55:18 PDT)

Also this link for glucosamine:
K-9 GLUCOSAMINE 32 oz LIQUID HEALTH MSM CHONDROITIN K9 - eBay (item 190446004940 end time Oct-17-10 13:52:02 PDT)


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

We use the Bear Treats salmon oil...

Amazon.com: Alaskan Bear Treats All Natural Wild-Alaskan Salmon Oil for Dogs, 32 Ounces: Kitchen & Dining

I also use coconut oil, extra virgin. It can be gotten at almost any "natural" food store...its great for them.


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## LDMomma (Mar 28, 2009)

Petplan will cover LP. Since it's already diagnosed, I think they won't cover it for 2 years but you can call and ask- if you'd like of course.

We use Petplan and it costs $153 per year (with a $200 deductible and a 20% co-pay) for a full Chi. If it's a mixed dog it's $99 per year. All of my dogs are 2 and under though.

We use Glyco-flex III for our two that have LP. So far, we're doing good on avoiding surgery.

You'll be okay Dahlia!


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## LDMomma (Mar 28, 2009)

foggy said:


> So sorry about Dahlia, but try not to let it get you down. She is still a healthy and happy little girl.  Definitely get her on a good glucosamine supplement. I personally wouldn't operate unless it was stage 3 or 4 and/or slipping more than not. This is what an excellent ortho surgeon once told me.


I agree. My girls have grade 2+3 between them. We won't operate unless it's hurting them or affecting their daily living. So far, it's not.


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## 17428 (Jul 10, 2009)

Thank-You for the info and words of encouragement.
I had a good cry and now I will take action to get
her what she needs to maintain her present level hopefully.

My hubby just came home and hugged me and said "its
ok........we will take care of her." Oh I am so lucky.
He could have been angry and focused on the cost.
I feel like the world has lifted off my heart.


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## Terri (Aug 21, 2009)

See i knew he would be cool and supportive about it Rhonda.
Am glad you are feeling a bit better about things now. xx


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Just reading this.... so happy that your hubby is supportive. What a relief. 

I agree with the others. A good glucosamine supplement and fish oil. That may help enough to avoid surgery. We use Hylox (more of a preventative, no problems yet) and I give Brody the same fish oil capsules that I take.


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## 17428 (Jul 10, 2009)

*I was scared/I went to Petsmart*

Yes I guess you were right Terri!
I was nervous cause you know how guys can
be about money.
I went to Petsmart in Ft Wayne IN
today about a hour drive from here.They carry all
GNC vitamins and joint care stuff and wow it was $$$$$
I notice that they dont have very much ingredients in
them too.Like 300 mg glucosamine as compared to
1000-1500 for humans.Its actually cheaper to buy human
grade glucosamine and such too.Also going to get us
salmon oil too.
I take glucosamine-chondriaton(?) too.
Two days without it and Im not walking!!
I know it will be good for her cause I cant live without it!


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

Sorry but I am reading wrong advice here, insurance companies DO insure for LP, (as someone said none do) I should know as my dog has had both his back knees operated on.

My insurance paid out £3700, (and I had only had my lad insured 3 weeks prior) this covered Stage 1 LP and Stage 2 LP plus he had to have both Tibia's sliced and pinned followed by Hydrotherapy

I woud not wait until it is stage 3-4 IMO this is unfair on the dog as by this stage the Patella is always popping out and is painful. My little boy was diagnosed with Stage 2 first and when the Patella came out he screamed in pain. It only lasted a few seconds but for me a few seconds is too much. 

So you are going to need to put a lot of money away each month to cover your vet bill, If the LP is only in one leg expect to be paying in the region of £1000 +

At first my dog was diagnosed with LP in one leg and was told the operation would cost approx £600 but then x-rays showed up LP in his other leg as well as the deformatories in the Tibia's of both back legs and boy when the copies of the vet bills arrived I was stunned and so relieved I was insured.

Hopefully the extent of my dogs inuries are nowhere near your dogs and it is just LP in one knee and nothing more. 

The hard part is seeing your dog all bandaged up and trying to keep them from racing around and of course the worry of the operation itself. I was beside myself with worry.

Hope all goes well for your babe

Deme x


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## 17428 (Jul 10, 2009)

I need to get back with my vet and ask how many mg`s a day he reccomends.
Can anyone with a grade 2 chi here tell me what your vet reccomended?


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## cprcheetah (May 4, 2009)

Dahlia`s MaMa said:


> I need to get back with my vet and ask how many mg`s a day he reccomends.
> Can anyone with a grade 2 chi here tell me what your vet reccomended?


There was a threead about this not too long ago:
http://www.chihuahua-people.com/chihuahua-questions/55056-glucosamine-how-much-too-much.html

This is what we go by at work, this is for arthritis: DogAware.com Health: Supplements & Diet Guidelines for Dogs with Arthritis
Up to 25# 500mg
25-50# 1000mg
51-100# 1500mg

Zoey gets about 225mg per day (she gets Phycox).

This is what I found on recommended dosage:
Herbs, Supplements and Nutriceuticals
The dosage for glucosamine is 500mg/25 lbs of body weight (or 20mg/lb) and the dosage of chondroitin is about 400mg/25 lbs of body weight, or about (16mg/lb) per day


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## 17428 (Jul 10, 2009)

*Thank-You Zoeys Mom!*

Thanks for this info!
It sounds like 500 max a day.
Im thinking of getting her the Glyco Flex 3
chewies and salmon oil to squirt on her
Taste of the wild bison kibble.
Has anyone encountered any info saying
too much gives them side effects like
calcium build up?? Just guessing here.
Does this plan sound good to you?
(Glyco Flex 3 chewies and salmon oil to squirt on her
Taste of the wild bison kibble.)


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I think that sounds like a good start, and I haven't found anything negative on either if they have a bit too much. You have to REALLY overdose them I think, for there to be trouble.


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## Reese and Miley (Jun 24, 2010)

Thats the sneaky thing about many of the health guarantees, they rely on the fact that no one would give up their pet and thus they wont have to compensate for such problems. Start setting a bit of money aside just in case, and get her on some supplements that can help manage the problem and hopefully prevent it from progressing to the point where she would even need surgery. Glad to hear she did so nicely at the vets, I love when they get to help disprove the stereotype that all chis are yappy and bite. Atta girl Dahlia! Reese was deemed the best/easiest chi to get his nails clipped at the groomers, they said almost every little dog tries or succeeds in biting them!


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## 17428 (Jul 10, 2009)

I am trying to get a letter of diagnosis to present
to Dahlia`s "breeder".I dug out the actual health guarantee she
signed at the time of sale and it only says she will reinburse
the cost of the dog.No-where does it say she gets ownership
for doing so! So maybe we have some luck on our
side that she can`t "repo" Dahlia.This new vet is being evasive
or maybe just too busy but they are to call me back today.
If he wont stand by his diagnosis of Grade 2 in writing then he`s history.
Ill get a 2nd or 3rd opinion somewhere else.
If Dahlia`s breeder wont refund my money Im considering taking
her to small claims court.I know one other person who sued
her over a bishons DNA a few months ago.She may help us.

My vet just called me back and said he will write the letter of diagnosis
but wont point fingers at her "breeder". Oh brother!
They always turn chicken s**t when you ask for it in writing!
Well Im off to gather more info about what I can do.


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## 17428 (Jul 10, 2009)

**bump**bump**


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## Deme (Aug 18, 2009)

As you have been to a vet who has diagnosed the LP before you were iunsured unfortunaltey oyu won't be able to get insured for now.

The only way you would have been covered is if you had of been insured for a period of 14 days before the injury was seen and diagnosed.

Hopefully you get your money back from the breeder which will help towards vet bills as its gonna be a huge bill.

But our little babies are worth every penny to us.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I find most guarantees only last for the first year, too...was Dahlia's breeder AKC and all that good stuff?


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## 17428 (Jul 10, 2009)

Yes I have given up on the idea of insurance.
The issue now is her written health guarantee.
Yes her breeder was a AKC registered breeder.
Her health guarantee states "cost of dog reinbursed 
for hereditary disease including luxating patellas".She signed it.
My vet says 75% of all chis have it.Notice its a 6 yr guarantee
and not a lifetime guarantee as chis seem to get worse as they age of course.
I need to get some legal advice and see what the letter says from the vet.


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