# Stressed out



## Ari1405 (Apr 18, 2017)

Hopefully you'll read all before judging or criticizing me. 
I own 4 dogs (all Chis) 3 males and 1 female 
3 males do not get along with each other or other dogs
They live separated and are rotated throughout the day to have a minimum amount of fights. There hasn't been a fight in a couple of months. 
I've been wanting to rehome Buddy Bear because he deserves a home where he isn't barking and "guarding" the other dogs. A place where he'll be the only dog. 
No one of course wants him (not even rescues or shelters) because he's dog aggressive. 
I don't have the heart to take him to a "kill-Shelter" 
I'm not giving up on him I just feel overwhelmed. Buddy bear and Jr have been at each other for about 3 years or so. 
Buddy Bear and Jojo have been at since November (2016). 
Jr has always been at it with Jojo. 
And just recently Jojo will actually try to fight back. 
I think I might just stop stressing about it and just let it be. 
But seriously having dogs that constantly want to fight isn't cool and feels draining.
Yes I understand I made a commitment to these dogs the day I got them, this is why I'm not giving up on any of them but it doesn't make it any easier. 
I also understand that there are people who also have dogs in the same household and constantly at each other and they are much larger breeds. 
And no I can't afford a trainer.


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## Ari1405 (Apr 18, 2017)

I will add: I guess it's more of a "rant" just needed I guess to let it out. But I don't know how you will all take it.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

The only thing I would add, is a pheramone spray/diffuser that you can get at the Pet/co PetSmart stores. It MIGHT help. Spray it where the dogs are. Iris pens are also a life saver in this situation. They could see each other, but couldn't get at each other. I know that 4 Iris pens might be costly, but shutting them away from each other has not helped either. Good luck.


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## chideb (Jan 29, 2008)

I am not here to criticize .. you are offering a home to these chi guys which I appreciate.
We also hve 4 chis, 3 boys and one girl. Two of my boys are 13, and 12 years old. The young male is only 6 months, so of course my older guys have little patience with the fact the puppy is always in "play" mode. Fortunately, our girl who is 7 years old has a lot of patience with him. When she does tire of his antics, she will get stern and put him in his place.. then he will usually get in one of the dog beds and take a much needed nap. We do not interfere with her discipline of the pup. She is not trying to hurt him and he does not come back at her. (I think this is due to the male/female relationship.)

Now as to my older boys, the 13 year old has a heart murmur and takes meds for his heart. Naturally, we don't want him upset or fighting at all. He is neutered which takes aggressiveness down a notch. He will give the pup a stern growl to go away and we make certain the little guy complies. They are only in the room together when we are home. If we go out, Neko (13 yr. old) is put in our bedroom which he loves as he naps alot at his age.

Our 12 year old, Buster, is *blind* and is also neutered. Mick (the baby) is aware that Buster (12 yr. old) is different. 
Mick really does not pester Buster very much, but if he does get on Buster's nerves then he gets a stern growl and again we make certain the pup backs off. We are comfortable leaving Buster out with Mick and Snow (our girl) when we go out. Buster also naps alot at his age, and Snow and Mick usually curl up together separate from Buster. (We have 5 doggie beds in our living area, so Buster has no problem napping away from the baby.)

Mick will be 7 months old on June 2nd, and we will be having him neutered then (the age our vet recommends for this procedure), and I feel this will reduce his hormones considerably which will improve the relationships with the two old males also.

I think the suggestion of a couple of Iris Pens for you boys may be a viable solution for you. Two in the pens, and one out.. then rotate them so all get the same amount of freedom. Perhaps seeing each other, but unable to make contact to fight will allow them to become more tolerant. 
Also, I am assuming all your males are neutered, if not.. that would be something I would have done immediately to help with the aggression towards one another.
Best of luck from my house to yours..


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## coco_little_bear (May 30, 2012)

It's totally understandable that this situation is stressing you out. Don't feel bad for arriving at this point where you're considering rehoming.

I understand that hiring a trainer is expensive. There are a lot of good training advice online to stop dogs from fighting, that you could try to maybe fix (or at least ease) the situation. Other than separating them, what other techniques have you tried so far? 

I agree with chideb as well, I would neuter them (if they aren't already).

But otherwise I like Susan's play pen idea. That way they can all be together, but unable to fight and I feel like it would be better in the long run than having them completely separated.


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## Ari1405 (Apr 18, 2017)

Thank you all for actually understanding my frustration at this point. I'm less stressed today than I was Friday. I took a break to everything dog (I took care of my dogs of course and went to Petsmart today) but I stayed away researching things and solutions for the dogs which helped. 
They are separated but: 
Each dog has a kennel 3 have a crate and Jojo has a kennel (he seems to be more comfortable since it's closed in than the crate) 
They see each other "passing" by because all 4 kennels are inside the same room inside the house. As soon as they do they all bark like crazy.
Outside I have a large black crate and a kennel run. I put Jojo in the kennel run and Buddy Bear runs around and vice versa. They tend to "fight" more when I'm in the backyard or when I enter the kennel run really gets them going. But they have "learned" that they have their own space but still get to see each other and sharing the same yard.
When Jr is out he gets put in the kennel run and Jojo gets put in the black crate. If it's not Jojo than its Buddy Bear. Jr has finally "learned" when he walks out not to bark at Buddy Bear in the large crate outside. I can never get Buddy Bear to stop barking 
I have done "positive" training as in having one dog doing commands while the other one watching. It tends to go better when its outside but if both dogs on a leash all goes crazy. And inside once the treats leave all goes wrong. 
Today I had Jr in the kennel run and Buddy Bear in the large crate outside. I took Jojo to the back yard on a leash. And Buddy bear and Jr barked. Eventually Jr stopped barking. And I had Jojo walk near the kennel run and sit on command. I'm hoping if they get use to each other looking at each other in the backyard and have Jojo run around and Jr be in the Kennel run. 
I keep them on a "schedule" because Jr doesn't do well to change and I'm the type of person to keep to a schedule. And we've had it for a very long time and they see each other and know they are there. And yet they can get use to each other. 
I'd be okay if they completely didn't like each other but not bark every time they hear each other. 
I looked up the spray/diffuser thing. And it's actually a spray can that you can spray them with it "redirects" their attention. But I'm not sure if it'll work because they are extremely stubborn.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

There is a pheromone plug-in that is supposed to smell like a nursing mom.Supposed to relax dogs. You plug it in the room that the dogs are in. The spray is, I think to spray their crates, beds etc. not so much the dogs themselves. The spray on the dog is an adversive sound.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

I am wondering if you had done any training with giving treats when the dog walking by, the others are given treats. This will take a long time, 'cause you have many dogs. The idea is that when they see a loose dog, treats rain down!! good luck with this, I know how frustrating barking can be!


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## Ari1405 (Apr 18, 2017)

I searched it up again and I wasn't aware of the spray and diffuser that actually smell like a nursing mom. I just don't know if it would help any because they are really "dog aggressive" 
It would be completely safe for myself if I'm also in the room with the diffuser on? I read it's completely safe but not too sure. 
I think the spray can that makes the sound would be more effective since it would take them by "surprise" but I'll look more into it before I buy it. Plus I'd need a good amount since I have 3 dogs that are very stubborn and the brand Sentry (since it's sold at Petsmart) has a small bottle. 
I have tried the treat thing actually.
As long as I can get them to bark less. 
Basically I'll have 2 dogs usually Jojo and Buddy Bear. I'll hold one and another person holding one on a leash. And we give them treats telling them sit. But as soon as all the treats are gone they realize it and will start barking lounging towards each other.
What about a lavender smelling plug in to the wall? I've read lavender calms humans and dogs.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Treats should be given when one dog is in a carrier/pen/crate and the other dog is free but not in the contained dogs face. Throw treats at the dog that is free so that it has to go away from the contained dog. A treat to the contained dog makes it 'fair'!! Eventually you can add a command--'leave him'. May take weeks to months to see if it will work. I assume you have had your boys neutered?? If not, look up free/reduced fee for neutering in your area.


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## Ari1405 (Apr 18, 2017)

Jojo will actually "respect" when he's running around in the room while Jr is in the crate. But I can try it will Buddy Bear. 
Actually no they aren't fixed. I am always "scared" actually extremely terrified. If something were to happen during or after surgery. Plus the price, there is free/reduced but the issue is those events they have many dogs and cats every where standing in a line. My dogs couldn't handle that whatsoever. Plus Jr would try to bite the vet tech to prepare him for surgery. Buddy Bear would try to bite the vet techs to get to other dogs. And Jojo would also do the same plus he has issues with people "staring" at him. My dogs are too delicate for a place who has people and dogs standing left and right. Plus I've looked and researched and it says no "aggressive" dogs. I don't want to put my dogs, another person's dog, and a person in any kind of danger. 
I do take my dogs to the vet but when they "need" it. When Jr had an ear infection they needed to muzzle him. I got their as soon as they opened and was the 1st one that day. Another dog had entered and the vet was very nice to let me into an exam room as soon as we walked in.
I took in Buddy Bear because he had got into a fight with a pit (smart person left the door open) and I kept him away from dogs thankfully he loves people as long as a dog isn't in sight. 
As you can see it's a bit deeper than just taking then to a free or reduced spay neuter clinic or mobile. I'd need to take them to the usual place and they'd have to be very patient with me and my dogs. But of course it's near $300 Which im in no position to pay at the moment


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## MelodyoftheForest (Sep 11, 2015)

It is clear that you have thought about these things thoroughly. One question I don't think has been asked is if your female is intact as well. That could make a difference also. Along with those low-cost neuter events (which I would not want to attend either), you may have other organizations near you who do things more privately. If you would like to share what area you live in, I would be happy to help you track something down. Honestly, techs pretty much expect little dogs to bite and take precautions. I have worked at a vet hospital, and the only muzzle size that got significant use was the smallest one! 

When you do the exercise of having two dogs out and training them withing sight of each other, I think you are probably too close. This is the kind of thing that needs to be done far enough away that they won't freak out when they notice each other. If that means down the street from each other, so be it. The distance needs to close very gradually. If you are trying this in the same room or in your yard, that is clearly above the threshold where they can work. Do some research on counter-conditioning. Move the dogs away from each other before the treats run out so the exercise ends with low stress rather than high stress.

Since having the dogs see each other indoors doesn't really seem to help, I would try covering their crates or using some other form of visual block between the dogs. Having constant visual contact may be raising their baseline stress level. Follow the suggestion to have treats rain from the sky when one dog is moving out of its crate, preferably while still blocking line of sight. You need to work on one aspect at a time, first sound, then add sight.


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## Ari1405 (Apr 18, 2017)

Yes I really have thought about all my possibilities and still looking for things that could help. Actually no my female dog isn't spayed but to be honest I don't think she'd even do well at a event like that (she usually hates new people, her past wasn't a good one and it took her like a year or so to actually fully trust me) 
When I had took Jr to the vet as soon as we got there a vet tech tried to pet him. I was like no no. And the guy then goes on saying every dog likes him. Inside my head I wanted to cuss him out. But I was like don't touch. This guy thought just because Jr wasn't barking or growling he could just pet him. Of course I didn't let him. Don't get me wrong I love this vet place the vet himself is very straight to the point and tells you everything you need to know. But of course the vet tech made me a bit mad. Then he evens takes the time to come back as were checking out with a small breed dog in his arms and saying you see. I was like good for you. I know he means well but they probably should know better than that. 

The thing about that is I personally believe it's not too close because I can have Buddy Bear in the kennel run and jojo on a leash with me and at a safe distance it's like he'll completely ignore Buddy Bear even without treats. I haven't tried with no treats on Buddy Bear yet because even though they all have issues and very stubborn I still consider him my "trouble child" and he's the smallest (a bit under 5 pounds) and oldest male. And when we walk to back yard by Buddy Bear Jr won't bark whatsoever. 
Also I find weird when I put Jojo in his kennel Buddy Bear sees him fully in my arms being carried (Buddy Bears crates on top of Jojo's Kennel, yes it's safe and sturdy if it wasn't I wouldn't have it that way) he won't bark at him at all he'll just stare at him but I usually cover Jojo eyes. Buddy Bear sees Jr being carried or even walking he'll go crazy. Jr will try to get to him when he's walking in the room but won't when he's walking out the room to go out. 

I actually might try the blanket thing because Buddy Bear has gotten to the point where if I get up he becomes "alert" as in anticipating (not sure if that's the way to describe it) that I'll bring in a dog or let a dog out. Barks when he hears noise like kennel being opened/closed or a leash or collar making noise. Maybe covering him up and giving him treats as he hears those things might just help even just a bit. I'll need more training treats, lol 

Just want to say thanks to Melody and Susan for still responding giving ideas for the 3 dogs I have. My post are very long but you still take the time to read them and offer advice. Plus it's a process and will take months for improvement.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

sorry to say, but I would go get the dogs neutered and spayed one at a time, at the free clinic. So what if the line is long? Get there early. Have the dog IN a carrier or crate, and don't let it out until it is his time. Tell the vet techs/vet that he IS likely to snap/bite out of FEAR. I'm sure many dogs, especially small dogs do this when stressed. You don't have to elaborate about the aggression to other dogs. I doubt you are going to get very far without these dogs being desexed. JMO. Have you tried the pheramone defuser yet?


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## chideb (Jan 29, 2008)

I sincerely hope you are not put off by my post. I only want to be supportive, but having lived in a multi-chihuahua household made up of males and females for the past 26 years, there is no doubt in my mind that part of the aggression issues you have been experiencing can be attributed to having 3 un-neutered males living in the home with an un-spayed female. I was in that very situation at one time and the interaction between my males was much more aggressive than my home now with my dogs desexed.

It is not the fault of the boys.. it is just mother nature at work in their lives. They are unable to control the hormone driven behavior when a female is in the mix whether she in in heat or not in heat. 
I totally understand the fear we all have when these little ones are undergoing a surgical procedure. When we had our 3 pound male neutered, I was terrified he wouldn't wake up. Most of our chis have been between 5 and 7 pounds, but Rio was so tiny.

Please consider letting Melody help you find a facility that can offer a low cost procedure. Not only will you be happier with the stress removed, but the dogs will have a much better quality of life with the tension and stress removed from their home as well.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Amen to that post!


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## Ari1405 (Apr 18, 2017)

I will be contacting the humane society today (they have low cost clinics) 
I will see if they can "help" 
I'm hoping they will because it seems like the only answer. 
Buddy Bear is the 1st dog I plan on getting fixed because he is the "worst" 
He will be more expensive because he only has one testicle dropped. 
I'm gonna have to literally start saving every penny I have 
On the website it says $87 is the cheapest for nuetering of a dog. Buddy Bear is about 4 pounds but that one testicle will raise the price like crazy to my understanding. 
But I'll call them when they are open


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## Ari1405 (Apr 18, 2017)

Humane society was a fail. sigh 
Left a message at another place but there more expensive for sure. Just gotta wait for a call back


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

A long time ago, I asked for some help for vet fees. Here are some of the answers I got. Maybe they can help you? If I may ask where are you located?

The Pet Fund:Veterinary Care Funding
aaha helping pets fund: http://aahelpingpets.com
tails of hope foundation.org


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## MelodyoftheForest (Sep 11, 2015)

I agree with the above also. One day each of stress will likely reduce your stress in the long run. It sounds like your female would be easiest, so start with her and see how it goes. That will also remove one thing for the boys to fight over. There really is only so much you can do without removing hormones from the picture. If the dogs are rehomed, they will be neutered. Anyone who wants an intact dog will probably breed it behind your back or not be responsible enough to prevent mating. I would rather see you get it done because you care so much. You are clearly very dedicated to your dogs, as all of us here are. However, we all have blind spots, and that is why we come here to learn from one another and encourage each other.


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## Ari1405 (Apr 18, 2017)

I've researched and called around. 
I cannot get any kind of grant/fund because even though I can't afford the surgery the family income exceeds the poverty line. A little frustrating to be honest. 
I've decided to just save money starting now, obviously I have money saved but I mean less going out to eat and try to spend the least possible money. The thing putting me off right now is that Buddy Bear doesn't have the nicest teerh at the moment and I don't want to spend all my money on his surgery and then a bit later need a dental surgery, I'd be devastated not knowing what to do. 
But I know it's just a dog and obviously you own them and are fully responsible for their well being. 
I have been putting a blanket over his kennel inside the room and its actually helping (surprisingly) 
He now won't bark so much when he hears kennels being open or close and Jr actually and Jojo inside the room. I've even tried the leash (putting it down) and won't bark at all. He still has a long way but this stubborn little dog is actually making progress!
I'm also using "Shhh" as soon as he starts barking at all times. I know he needs to bark since he's a dog but when it's directed toward the dogs. 
I also taught him to "wait" I tell him wait and he'll sit down and settle. He finally won't bite (doesn't mean any harm) my fingers when grabbing the treat. 
Very little process to any normal person but me living with him 5 years it's very surprising.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Good going. Just keep thinking of ways to save that money. I'd do the female first though.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

I used my local 'pound' for low cost rabies and the other 'core' shots. No one asked any questions nor did I have to show proof of income. Just called and made an appointment. I have decided not to vaccinate my pups for distemper/parvo since they are inside dogs. They did have their booster after their puppy shots a year later.


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## susan davis (Mar 25, 2011)

Have you talked with your 'pound' about spaying/neutering?


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## MelodyoftheForest (Sep 11, 2015)

I am so glad some of the things we suggested are making your life a little easier. Small steps toward progress can make a huge difference in stress level!

Is there any way you can make a deal with your parents to loan you the money or do some work for them? It is hard to make suggestions since I know you have already thought of most things I could suggest. We could help you make the case to them that this is necessary if that would help. I am sure you are not the only person in the house who gets stressed or annoyed by the chaos!

Also, I apologize for not noticing there were more posts on the next page before my last post. Now I realize it sounds a little odd because of that.


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## Ari1405 (Apr 18, 2017)

susan davis said:


> I used my local 'pound' for low cost rabies and the other 'core' shots. No one asked any questions nor did I have to show proof of income. Just called and made an appointment. I have decided not to vaccinate my pups for distemper/parvo since they are inside dogs. They did have their booster after their puppy shots a year later.





susan davis said:


> Have you talked with your 'pound' about spaying/neutering?


To my understanding they do a "mobile clinic" My dogs wouldn't be able to attend. But I have taken my dogs before to the low cost clinic from the humane society for cheap "shots" But this was when they were puppies and got along with any other dog. They also accepted everyone their mission was to make sure all pets got their vaccines at a low price regardless of your income or neighborhood. I had even once went with 3 dollars in quarters to pay for Jojo's vaccines. I didn't care and was not embarrassed at all. And they accepted also. I still laugh till this day and it's been about 3 years ago.


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## Ari1405 (Apr 18, 2017)

MelodyoftheForest said:


> I am so glad some of the things we suggested are making your life a little easier. Small steps toward progress can make a huge difference in stress level!
> 
> Is there any way you can make a deal with your parents to loan you the money or do some work for them? It is hard to make suggestions since I know you have already thought of most things I could suggest. We could help you make the case to them that this is necessary if that would help. I am sure you are not the only person in the house who gets stressed or annoyed by the chaos!
> 
> Also, I apologize for not noticing there were more posts on the next page before my last post. Now I realize it sounds a little odd because of that.


I know I was so surprised! That it's been helping a little. 
My parents believe we should work for what we want, so a loan isn't possible. And they don't believe doing work around the house and getting paid for it. They say we should do it regardless if we get money. We don't get paid for are work around the house. 
Yes everyone in the house is extremely annoyed since there's always seems to be a dog barking. 
Mom has always thought a dog should be left the way it is as in don't fix it. A couple of dogs we've seen 1st hand got cancer and they were fixed. I also kinda see her point to be honest. Because I feel like the dogs getting cancer are usually fixed. 
But she has now opened to the idea of fixing a dog. 
Don't know what you talking about but I'll re read.


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## MelodyoftheForest (Sep 11, 2015)

From what I have learned, there are some cancers that might be more common in fixed dogs, but there are also some that are absolutely more common in intact dogs. My guess is that the dogs they have know with cancer were spayed/neutered is that most pet dogs are. Keeping dogs intact may benefit normal growth and strength of bones, tendons, etc. Your dogs are all adults, so they have had the benefit of normal hormones during their maturation and there is probably little benefit in that area at this point.

Basically, the decision to spay/neuter probably should be made thoughtfully and on a case-by-case basis. For some dogs, hormones are not an issue. For yours, they probably are. Your family's sanity is worth thinking about surgery, in my opinion.

The other thing I was just thinking about is that the more exercise the dogs can get, the less energy they have to be obnoxious. I helped a young woman once who had to male Chihuahuas who had started fighting. I asked how much exercise they got, and she admitted she stopped taking them for walks because she was afraid of large loose dogs in her neighborhood. I sold her some Direct Stop (not sure if it is still called that, a citronella spray deterrent), she was able to walk them, and they stopped fighting.

If you start slowly, even little dogs can run along with a bicycle. That might allow you to wear them all out without wearing yourself out!


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## Ari1405 (Apr 18, 2017)

The whole cancer thing is scary to think about honestly. I know they can get cancer either way but in a way I'd rather have them have him get it not fixed than fixed. I'd feel like I'd blame myself if he were to get cancer after getting fixed. I know I have no power of any of my dogs getting cancer but it's just a scary thought. 
I cannot walk my dogs in my neighborhood what so ever. Majority of the dogs that are loose are "pit" mixes. I love the breed but when you have a 5 pound Chihuahua who thinks they can fight any size dog. And a pit comes charging down and the Chihuahua tries going for it, it's not gonna end very nice. Plus Buddy Bear has been in a fight with one before and needed to go to the vet to get put on antibiotics and I believe they shaved him (where he got bit) He truly doesn't know his size I believe.


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