# disgusted..



## SharaAngel<3 (Nov 14, 2010)

Just saw on Liams breeders page that his mother, 'hannah montana' has ALREADY had another litter, and the puppies are already 7 weeks old! 
Liam is barely 8 months, because he will turn 8 months on sept 27. which means she would have pretty much had to have gotten pregnant 3 or 4 months after having a litter. 
that is alot for a little 4 pound baby :-( 
sorry i just had to vent.


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## Audreybabypup (Sep 14, 2010)

That is very upsetting! Poor mommy dog. That takes a lot from their body and it is very unfair to breed them that often


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## Tabitha (Jul 30, 2011)

That's so awful to hear. That's plain and simple puppy farming.


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## Miinerva (Jun 10, 2011)

WOW! I have to agree, that sound like puppy farming. If i were you, i would keep track of this breeder and maybe report her or something. Don't know how the laws are but perhaps someone can educate and talk some sense in to her. Did she have other Chi's as well, that she may be breeding like this? Is it possible that the dogs may be kept some place else and brought "home" for showing the pups. What was the mother like. Did she seem anxious or well socialized etc. Poor little girl. These things make me so upset. How can someone be so greedy! :foxes15:


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## SharaAngel<3 (Nov 14, 2010)

how can i report her? shes on puppyfind and i tried to leave a comment but she can just delete them. im friends with her on facebook so i could message her, i just dont know what to say, i wish i had more proof. i really do beleave that shes puppy farming though. ugh i feel so bad for the mother dog, im sure this isnt the 1st time.


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## Miinerva (Jun 10, 2011)

Why not start asking your local authorities about what you can do if you suspect puppy mill breeding. Maybe she is already a known offender or maybe she is just uneducated. Does she sell other pups to, chis or other breed n this or other sites? Is it possible to see her "selling history" on the site...i.e. how often she has pup's for sale etc. That could give an indication. How is she with responding to questions about your pupy? Do you have a breeders certificate...many pupy mill dogs come with no certificate. Is she willing to take the dog back if you for some reason will not be able to keep him (i know that wont happen but it shows how well she cares for her litters also after they have left etc...). How about posting in the breeders part of the forum and ask questions about how often a chi can/should be bread etc, to "get some meet on your bone" so to speak. But do turn to the local authority and ask them if they have any hints on how to proceed. The worst they can do is to say you cant do anything so there is nothing to loose. Poor little thing...Oh, and why not ask about brothers and sisters to your current pupy, how many are there, any chance you can meet them etc etc (family reunion thing)


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## SharaAngel<3 (Nov 14, 2010)

Miinerva said:


> Why not start asking your local authorities about what you can do if you suspect puppy mill breeding. Maybe she is already a known offender or maybe she is just uneducated. Does she sell other pups to, chis or other breed n this or other sites? Is it possible to see her "selling history" on the site...i.e. how often she has pup's for sale etc. That could give an indication. How is she with responding to questions about your pupy? Do you have a breeders certificate...many pupy mill dogs come with no certificate. Is she willing to take the dog back if you for some reason will not be able to keep him (i know that wont happen but it shows how well she cares for her litters also after they have left etc...). How about posting in the breeders part of the forum and ask questions about how often a chi can/should be bread etc, to "get some meet on your bone" so to speak. But do turn to the local authority and ask them if they have any hints on how to proceed. The worst they can do is to say you cant do anything so there is nothing to loose. Poor little thing...Oh, and why not ask about brothers and sisters to your current pupy, how many are there, any chance you can meet them etc etc (family reunion thing)


i cant see her selling history, but i know she also sells yorkies, but thats it. just chis and yorkies. i know if a site sells multiple breeds then its a bad sign. im pretty sure she offered once to take him back when i was telling her the problems he was having, i dont believe he had a breeders certificate, im going to ask her if she can send me his and see what she says. i dont think shes just 'uneducated' shes a older women, and apparently has been breeding for awhile, plus, if you just google how long should you wait before breeding again, everything says atleast 6 months, so if she really cared she could just google it. and i have asked about liams litter mate, and she sent me a picture but no contact info, the owner of his litter mate doesnt live in nyc i dont think or anywhere close. i would love to talk to her though and see if she has had any problems with her pup. i wish i could warn people before buying from her


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## buzz and lola's mummy (Aug 14, 2011)

Such a shame. Not so long ago myself and another girl rescued a 8month old chihuahua who had no vet history and was bleeding from an 'unplanned' miscarriage we reported her to RSPCA, animals in distress and ALL facebook pet pages and pet pages. The shocking thing was the lady was selling a very ill and mistreated dog due to ''allergies'' but was advertising elsewhere that she wanted a jack russell puppy!!! She also had many other sick animals, when we got there-these were rehomed by authorities. The chi in question my friend kept, took to the vets and got her neutered, the chi lives happily with her and her other chihuahua now!!


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

SharaAngel<3 said:


> if you just google how long should you wait before breeding again, everything says atleast 6 months, so if she really cared she could just google it.


Excuse me if I'm wrong, my math skills aren't the greatest, but your dog is 8 months old and the pups are 7 weeks old. I think then she did wait 6 months between breedings.


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## Miinerva (Jun 10, 2011)

You will have to take in the actual pregnancy in to account as well. That is ca 60 days (8.5 weeks) which makes total of 15.5 weeks. That is roughly 3.6 months. So if we take 8 month - 3.6 months, she waited about 4.5 month before starting to produce her next litter. That is to short of a recovery time. sad :-(


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## CHITheresa (Apr 30, 2011)

That is sad. The lady across street is always having Chi puppy's too. First she wanted $200 no paper now she cant pay her taxes so she want $300.00 she even said because she has to pay taxes.


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## roughhouse (Mar 1, 2009)

It really isn't uncommon for breeders to breed on consecutive heats and then skip a heat. As long as the dog is good health there is a lot of evidence to support that it can actually be healthier to do it this way and retire them younger from breeding. Being that you can't know the health conditions of the mother involved it is pretty presumptious to call this breeder a bad breeder based on this practice. The math shows that the heat cycles were approx 6 months apart as is the norm for the breed.


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## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

As roughhouse says really

IMO theres nothing wrong with breeding on consectutive heats. BUT there is a difference between doing it responsibly and unresponsibly.

Its no different imo to wild dogs, theyd breed on every heat if they were Alhpa dogs (depending on species) and would be bred from their first heat

If theyre a top show dog or the bloodline is important if shes in good health and a vet has confirmed its ok to breed her 2 heats in a row, then a break then breed again whats the problem? She can them continue her career and finish being a brood bitch and be retired at half the age rather than skipping heats and being 7/8 years old when shes last bred. 
And ive seen bitches 9 or 10 be bred from ... with good health records and a good vet theyve gone ahead and bred and theyve been fine.

Again with papers

Breeders, KC papers or whatever it is... they can mean nothing except an expensive pieve of paper that increases the price by 50-500 pounds! Im no hypocrite because yes ive paid extra for dogs with papers but it doesnt always necessary guard their history or parentage. 

If she's an older woman, surely she knows what she's doing? Does she look after her dogs and puppies properly?

HAving more than one breed does not make you a puppy farm! I have one female Beagle, One female Chihuahua, One Male Bulldog. Yet i have intentions to breed my Beagle after 2 years of age after she's pointed?


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## svdreamer (Feb 20, 2010)

I was counting heat to heat, not end of pregnancy to heat. Most dogs only go into heat twice a year, so breeding them too close is improbable.


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## Miinerva (Jun 10, 2011)

Indeed, it is not an absolute sign of her being a "pupymill breeder" because she breeds on her second heat, but it makes one wonder, meaning...will she have a litter on her third heat as well, is the dog getting a rest...that is all. Having more than one breed is also not an absolute sign of it being a puppy mill, of course not. It is more about putting different things together and make an estimated guess to see if it is worth keeping an eye on it. Not to talk bad about the breeder or anything, she might be great


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## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Miinerva said:


> .... It is more about putting different things together and make an estimated guess to see if it is worth keeping an eye on it. Not to talk bad about the breeder or anything, she might be great


Thats another very good point

You shouldnt bad mouth people when you dont know all the facts you may be right or you may be wrong, especially if your puppy your purchased was and is happy and healthy, if not thats a different matter! 

it might come back and bite you on the backside!


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## SharaAngel<3 (Nov 14, 2010)

yea i didnt mean if a breeder is breeding a few different breeds that she is a puppymill, i meant like those sites you go on and they say they are breeders yet they have no photos of the parents, even when you ask and they have like 10 or 15 differnt breeds. 
i dont bad mouth her, only vent to you guys, i dont think she is the best breeder though, liam has a few problems, like allergic to a few things and Cryptorchidism, not too major, although she didnt even know about those glands on male dogs that swell up sometimes lol. that of course doesn't make her a bad breeder, just not somebody i would buy another dog from, or tell people to buy from. i also dont know how many times this dog has been bred, like if this isn't the 1st time she was bred so quickly. i really hope she is giving the dog some time to rest.


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## SharaAngel<3 (Nov 14, 2010)

also thank you all for your opinions, knowing its a bit normal makes me feel a little bit better about it, still sad to me though, but hopefully she will retire her sooner then


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