# We must stop over-vaccination!



## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Hi everyone! I subscribe to a blog from Jan Rasmusen, the author of the book (Scared Poopless), and she sends out great articlesthat are very informative. 
Most of her articles focus on holistic dog treatments, feeding raw, and over-vaccination. The website is truth4dogs.com and dogs4dogs.com

Here's a shorter one on over vaccination and what happens to our beloved pets as a result. I lost my first dog (chihuahua) Gino to over vaccination at only 1.5 years old. 

Did you know you really don't need annual vaccinations? And there is something called titer testing to show antibodies present in the blood so you don't need re-vaccinate? Titer testing holds up for grooming, boarding, dog day care, ect.

Enjoy!!

http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2012/...il&utm_campaign=Feed:+Truth4dogs+(Truth4Dogs)


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Thank you for posting! Over-vaccination can have terrible consequences that many people are not aware of. 

I know most people here do not vaccinate any more than absolutely required. I got Toby his puppy shots and first rabies shot. From now on, I will get titers for everything but rabies, which is required by law every three years. Many people here do the same thing, or a similar minimal vaccination schedule. 

May I ask what happened to poor Gino?


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Well we got Gino at 8 weeks old for Christmas (my fiance bought him for me) and he was the love of my life! Long store short, he went for his annual booster (he was 1 and a half), we did the all-in-one plus rabies. About a month later he started limping on one leg. We went to all the local vets, I mean ALL because everyone said he pulled a muscle and he's FINE. Then when the limping didn't stop and started shifted from one leg to the other, they decided it was definitely lyme disease. So after treating for lyme disease, guess what? Still limping! So then we got stronger antibiotcs and he broke out into these crazy bumps all over his ears and head (I'll post pics after work, they're saved on my Ipad). Vets said he's allergic to penicillin. One night after no resolution of bumps, limping, and a fever of 106 degrees, we went to doggie ER (they knew us on a first name basis) and finally gave us a referral to Purdue University Animal Hospital. Turned out Gino had a wbc (white blood cell count) of 46,000! He had a fever, heart murmur, lost the ability to blink his eyes (had to lube them every 2 hours), had to see a dermatologist, bladder perforation, ect!! They diagnosed him with an autoimmune disorder and he went on high dose steroids. We then went to a hollistic vet who tried to wean him off the prednisone and then he relapsed twice. Needless to say he did 6 months and $10,000 all from a vaccine. RIP Gino


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Oh my goodness. What a tragic story! I am so sorry for you. That is unbelievable. My vet tried to get me to do all the puppy vaccines (his last all in one and his rabies) at once, then got mad when I refused! I cannot even imagine the pain that you and poor Gino went through. At least his memory lives on through you and your very important message.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Thank you! If it weren't for Gino, I would still be feeding Eukanuba, vaccinating every year and giving heartworm and flea prevention. It was a hard way to learn, but in the end my chihuahuas will all have a better life thanks to him and we rescued mojo as a result too!! He got saved from being put to sleep due to irresponsible owners and he's the most amazing little man! Thanks again. I get all choked up talking about him. ;(


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## Buildthemskywards (Jun 16, 2012)

Aw. I'm so sorry to hear that you had to go through such a horrible experience. Poor little man. I'm glad you can look at the positives that came out of it though. Hugs from me and Mylo!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm glad you posted this and I hope that people will read and research and learn about the dangers of over vaccinating.

We do a series of puppy shots and ONE rabies shot after 6 months and then titer. (We have a legal exemption for rabies because of a reaction). But Brody's titer show full and complete immunity against parvo, distemper, and rabies and he is now almost 4 years old. He will never be vaccinated again unless his titers show that he needs it.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

That's what we do too! I'm not exempt by law for rabies but I'm not getting it done ever again anyway! I don't care if it's required by law bc I don't board, groom, nor do my dogs bite anyone. I had titers done on mojo and Lola almost three years ago. I will titer again in a couple years just to please my vet, lol. It's so sad that most people don't know about proper vaccinating, so I try to inform people all the time, hopefully preventing them from what Gino went through.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Same for us.

Each girl got their series of 3 puppy shots and a few months later 1 rabies shot. No "boosters".

They will get the 3 year rabies later this fall and titers from then on. 

They are covered given that they received a dosage suitable also for a Bernese Mountain Dog and they are 3.3-4.0 pounds.


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

Thanks for sharing! Odie is "due" for her shots, and I was considering getting just the rabies for awhile, but I think I'm now dead set on no vaccines. She's had everything as a puppy. She needs a check up anyway, so I'll just ask them to titer. I guess the only bummer would be if we wanted to take her with us out of country, which could be a real possibility in the next few years. 

Does anyone in Canada know where you can find vaccination laws online? I've searched and searched, and haven't been able to come up with anything.


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## Jennin24 (Jun 10, 2012)

Zorana1125 said:


> Thank you! If it weren't for Gino, I would still be feeding Eukanuba, vaccinating every year and giving heartworm and flea prevention. It was a hard way to learn, but in the end my chihuahuas will all have a better life thanks to him and we rescued mojo as a result too!! He got saved from being put to sleep due to irresponsible owners and he's the most amazing little man! Thanks again. I get all choked up talking about him. ;(



Wow, thanks for sharing your story. That is so sad about little Gino. I had no idea about any of this and would have just done what my vet recommended and not asked questions. Well, I wouldn't have known what to ask. Khorra is due for her last set of puppy shots next week and I'm going to wait to give her her rabies shot. You mentioned heartworm and flea prevention. Does this mean you do not give that? I've been told that I'm supposed to start Khorra on that soon.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Jennin24 said:


> Wow, thanks for sharing your story. That is so sad about little Gino. I had no idea about any of this and would have just done what my vet recommended and not asked questions. Well, I wouldn't have known what to ask. Khorra is due for her last set of puppy shots next week and I'm going to wait to give her her rabies shot. You mentioned heartworm and flea prevention. Does this mean you do not give that? I've been told that I'm supposed to start Khorra on that soon.


I would finish her last set of shots and then wait at least 4 weeks to do her rabies so they are not too close together. I personally do not give flea or heartworm prevention but I also live in Northwest Indiana where it's not warm year round. I recently went to a seminar on heartworm prevention and vaccinations. For my climate, the vet said if u want do give heartworm prevention, to start in may and give it every 45 days (not 30) thru September. This is the only time heartworm is possible. Here is a link that explains it all. Also, the book Scared Poopless talks a lot about it. I would rather pay to treat heartworm (yes its about $700) than give a preventative medication that is harmful to their bodies but this is Just my personal opinion based on what i have read I've also never had in issue with fleas for any of my chi's so I don't worry about it. I guess I will have to cross that bridge if I ever get there. 

The sad thing is vets are scared u won't come back for a checkup if u don't vaccinate, this is y they send us reminders. Funny, bc I spend more money there now not vaccinating and don't mind bc I'm doing the right thing. Instead, my pack gets annual bloodwork, titers every 5 years, and denials when necessary. The AAHA vaccination guidelines even say not to repeat the core vaccines more often than every 3 years and the vets are still pushing yearly vaccines. It's really scary. Please feel free to ask any questions, I really am passionate about this topic especially and want to try to help anyone I can! 

If you get a chance, google the book Scared Poopless, u can read excerpts from
It for free online. And it's narrated by Jan's Maltese, so it's an easy read!

Hope this info helps! Again, this is just my personal opinion based on what I've read and learned through my experiences.


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## Jennin24 (Jun 10, 2012)

Thanks for the info! I will definitely check out that book. It is so confusing trying to do what's right for them. I will definitely wait on the rabies shot. Not sure what to do about fleas and heartworm. I didn't grow up in Texas, I grew up in Michigan where you also didn't have to worry year round about the fleas. I'm really not sure how the fleas are out here in my area. I'll have to start asking around. I don't have any friends with dogs in my immediate area. 

So, if you don't use flea prevention, what do you do to treat it if they do get fleas and then what do you do to keep the fleas away? Also, for heartworm, if you don't have them on prevention for that, how often do you need to test for it?


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## Jayda (Jun 15, 2012)

A couple questions from a new mom of an adult dog?

1. What should she get each year in terms of shots/vaccinations since she is four years old (under a limited vaccination plan)?

2. I give her Trifexis monthly (ingested pill for flea, heartworm and intestinal parasite presentation). I live in the hot muggy south.

3. Titer testing? All I know is the PetPlan insurance I got doesn't cover it.

Thank you for this information. I never knew any of this about vaccination. This is a great site!


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Jayda said:


> A couple questions from a new mom of an adult dog?
> 
> 1. What should she get each year in terms of shots/vaccinations since she is four years old (under a limited vaccination plan)?
> 
> ...


1. In the USA, I would get just the rabies every three years as required by law and draw titers every 1-3 years. 

2. I live in North Carolina and am currently dealing with fleas, even though he is on preventative. In this area of the country, I don't think there is a choice but to use a preventative. 

3. Drawing titers is a way to tell how many antibodies are left from previous vaccines. More antibodies means more immunity. So, if the titers show that a dog has plenty of antibodies, there is no need to re-vaccinate. If the titers show that a dog does not have enough antibodies to protect it, then you know you need to re-vaccinate. If I remember correctly, the insurance will cover it up to the price of traditional vaccines. Since titers are more expensive, you will have to pay more despite insurance. But it is well worth it to protect our babies from over vaccination. 

I hope that helped. 


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Jennin24 said:


> Thanks for the info! I will definitely check out that book. It is so confusing trying to do what's right for them. I will definitely wait on the rabies shot. Not sure what to do about fleas and heartworm. I didn't grow up in Texas, I grew up in Michigan where you also didn't have to worry year round about the fleas. I'm really not sure how the fleas are out here in my area. I'll have to start asking around. I don't have any friends with dogs in my immediate area.
> 
> So, if you don't use flea prevention, what do you do to treat it if they do get fleas and then what do you do to keep the fleas away? Also, for heartworm, if you don't have them on prevention for that, how often do you need to test for it?


Well, I live in NC and let me tell you that fleas in the South are nothing to take lightly. In most areas of the South, flea preventative is required simply to prevent an infestation. I use Vectra 3d. It works against fleas, ticks, and mosquitoes (which carry heartworm). I give 1/2 a dose every 30-60 days depending on the time of year. I also give Toby heartguard plus to prevent heartworms. He has never had reactions to any of this. Many people prevent and treat fleas with diatomaceous earth, which is completely organic and safe. I am actually picking some up today for around the house. I don't know where you live, but being from Florida and now living in North Carolina, I don't mess with these bugs. For me, it's all about prevention. Hell, he's on prevention and I still had a minor flea issue. 

I would weigh the pros and cons. Is the risk too high to take? If you don't have a flea/tick/mosquito problem where you live, maybe you don't need to worry. It really depends on your preferences, your dog, and the environment that the dog is in. 


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Jennin24 said:


> Thanks for the info! I will definitely check out that book. It is so confusing trying to do what's right for them. I will definitely wait on the rabies shot. Not sure what to do about fleas and heartworm. I didn't grow up in Texas, I grew up in Michigan where you also didn't have to worry year round about the fleas. I'm really not sure how the fleas are out here in my area. I'll have to start asking around. I don't have any friends with dogs in my immediate area.
> 
> So, if you don't use flea prevention, what do you do to treat it if they do get fleas and then what do you do to keep the fleas away? Also, for heartworm, if you don't have them on prevention for that, how often do you need to test for it?


I know! It's so confusing! Actaully in that book, there is a quiz in the beginning testing your knowledge as a pawrent and I failed it the first time! Literally failed! lol...I haven't had to treat for fleas ever because my dogs are usually in doors and only outdoors when we are out with them. However I have read great reviews on Natural Chemistry DE Flea Pet and Bedding spray and it's available at petco, but I'm sure if you search through this forum you can find more info on flea treatments. I have also heard they make all natural flea collars but again I'm not sure how effective they are.

I test for heartworm once a year at my annual checkup. So when we go for our annual checkup, they get a physical exam, heartworm test, CBC (complete blood cell count to check for anemias, infection, blood related disorders), BMP (looks at renal function, liver function), and then Lola gets a dental bc she has bad teeth. Every 5 years at the annual check up, we will do titers, I've only had them done once so far.

I am not sure how prevalent heartworm is in Texas, but I'm sure you can google a statistic. If you do decide to give heartowrm prevention, you can give it every 45 days instead of every 30 days also. There are some regions where heartworm rates are really high so I would consider giving it if I lived in those areas.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Jayda said:


> A couple questions from a new mom of an adult dog?
> 
> 1. What should she get each year in terms of shots/vaccinations since she is four years old (under a limited vaccination plan)?
> 
> ...


Congratulatons on your new doggie!! I really recommend reading the book "Scared Poopless," it's a great intro to dog care and taught me a lot of what I know today. It addresses things like choosing the right food, vaccinations, titers, fleas, spaying/neutering, going through surgery, among other topics. There is a fun quiz in the beginning and I failed it initially while I thought I was doing everything right! 

Since you just got her, I would recommend getting titer testing done. Titer testing is basically testing for antibodies in the blood to that particular vaccine. For example, when you get a vaccine, your body produces an autoimmune response thus forming these antibodies. If your titer is positive, then the antibodies are still there, so you do not need to vaccinate. Our bodies and (our pets) produce memory cells that stick around for a very long time (if not forever), which is why we do not need to revaccinate. So if you dog comes across parvo, her memory cells will fight it off because she already produced antibodies to it when she got vaccinated. If the titer is negative (hardly ever the case if they have been previously vaccinated) then you can go ahead and give the vaccine. I try to stay away from the all-in-one vaccines and use single-valent or bi-valent vaccines when available. I draw titers every 5 years for my crew, so while it is more expensive than vaccination, it's only done once every 5 years. Some people will only titer once in a lifetime and consider their pets immune for life as well.

Also, I have my dogs get blood work done every year at their annual checkup. My vet does a CBC (complete blood cell count) to check for autoimmune issues, infection, anemias, ect. We also get a CMP (complete metabolic panel) to look for any kidney or liver abnormalities. 

I have heard of Trifexis, but since I do not give it, I do not know much about it. When I went to a vaccination/heartworm seminar, the vet did mention that some regions really need to use the prevention because of their weather conditions. He said it can be given every 45 days and not every 30 days, so you can give it less frequently.

I hope some of this info helps, I know it's a lot to take in! If you get a chance, order that book on amazon and check it out, I think you will really like it. There is also a website (truth4dogs.com and dogs4dogs.com) where you can read exerpts from the book for free too. Please feel free to ask me anything and I will try to help if I can! 

Good luck!


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## Jayda (Jun 15, 2012)

Great information. I know Lady was up to date in shots when I got her. She had just had a three year rabies shot. I did take her in for an exam. They tested for heartworm and who knows what else. Oh yes, a poop test which showed tapeworm which we treated. Tapeworm is the one type of intestional parasite Trifexis does not handle, figures! I knew she had something since I saw it in her poo! Again, this is a great thread. I have two totally indoor cats who I don't treat for fleas and they have never had a problem. This is another reason I want to keep Lady on preventative since she goes in and out with me.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

jesuschick said:


> Same for us.
> 
> Each girl got their series of 3 puppy shots and a few months later 1 rabies shot. No "boosters".
> 
> ...


Isn't that crazy? U think they could come up with weight based doing by now!!


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## charchi (Apr 17, 2012)

*question about heartworm for Australians?*

Hi, i have always given heartworm treatment to my dogs,because the mozzies here are terrible, Question for other ozzies do you give heartworm preventative? i dont think we have a choice living in Australia, do u go for the injection or the tablets?I wish i dident have to use them at all.


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## AussieLass (Mar 1, 2012)

ozziegirl said:


> Hi, i have always given heartworm treatment to my dogs,because the mozzies here are terrible, Question for other ozzies do you give heartworm preventative? i dont think we have a choice living in Australia, do u go for the injection or the tablets?I wish i dident have to use them at all.


Definitely NOT the injection, OMG NO!!! 

Yes I give Sentinel which can be stretched out to 6 weeks and that's how I schedule it. If you read how dogs actually contract heart work, what the temperature has to be for a certain period of time without dipping under that, the sex of the mossies bla bla bla, the chances of actually getting it are not as severe as we imagine, but I'm not taking the risk these days. 

My last 2 dogs expired at 16+yo, living in Qld. for the last 12 years of their lives and never had heartworm treatment, that stuff is just so deadly but the older I get, the more chicken I become


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## Loveoscar (Jul 22, 2012)

I took Oscar to the vet for the first time today (since I adopted him). I gave her all his paperwork and she said he needed more shots within a few months. He has already had shots for everything within the last year and as a healthy adult dog I am hesitant to get more done. After reading this site, and actually this post, I asked the vet about tests (titers? Is that right?) to see of he was still covered. She basically said that was ridiculous and he needs to immunized again or I am being irresponsible. All in all I wasnt impressed by her at all and she didn't really seem all that comfortable with "difficult" (that's what she called Oscar) dogs. Advice?


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

My advice would be to look for a new vet for Oscar. Is this the same one who criticized his diet? You need to find one that you are comfortable with and one that is open minded. I don't like that she told you your dog was difficult on top of trying to force you to do something you do not want to do. Just my opinion, but she sounds like the kind of vet I hate!


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## Loveoscar (Jul 22, 2012)

Yup, same vet. I was NOT impressed. It blew my mind that a vet would call a scared, rescued dog difficult because he didn't warm up to her right away. She also insinuated that I wasn't training him properly because he growled at her. Ugh. It was awful.


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

Loveoscar said:


> Yup, same vet. I was NOT impressed. It blew my mind that a vet would call a scared, rescued dog difficult because he didn't warm up to her right away. She also insinuated that I wasn't training him properly because he growled at her. Ugh. It was awful.


Sounds like a nightmare. Remember, THEY work for YOU and Oscar. You decide what to tolerate. For me, I'd be leaving a trail of dust never to be seen again. As long as you have other possible vets, there is no reason to deal with that BS. 


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## Huly (Mar 5, 2012)

I see a holistic / traditional vet as my cat Huly caught FIV from a vaccine. I was not sure how she would handle my two pups when I got them. She did titer test at 10 weeks as she said most moms are so over vaccinated it carries down to their pups. BG showed she needed a vaccine and only had one while Sonny's showed he was fine and did not need a booster.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Loveoscar said:


> I took Oscar to the vet for the first time today (since I adopted him). I gave her all his paperwork and she said he needed more shots within a few months. He has already had shots for everything within the last year and as a healthy adult dog I am hesitant to get more done. After reading this site, and actually this post, I asked the vet about tests (titers? Is that right?) to see of he was still covered. She basically said that was ridiculous and he needs to immunized again or I am being irresponsible. All in all I wasnt impressed by her at all and she didn't really seem all that comfortable with "difficult" (that's what she called Oscar) dogs. Advice?


Please find a new vet immediately!!! Although I do not see a hollistic vet anymore, my vet is always open to anything I tell her about and/or ask her about. When I asked her about doing titers and if that is something she is familiar with, she was happy to skip on the vaccines and titer instead. She was also the one who told me the vaccination guidelines have changed from every year to every 3 years for the core vaccines. 

I am so sorry you had such a poor experience with this moron! You should always feel comfortable around your vet and be able to build a good relationship just as your would with your own doctor. At the end of the day, it's YOUR dog, not hers! You only need to do what you WANT to do and not what they say your dog "needs!" I can't stand vets who are like this. I had a bad experience once with Lola when she had an ear infection with an arrogant vet, that was our first and last visit. Maybe you can ask your local dog food store if they can recommend a new vet for you? When I was trying to find single and bi-valent vaccines for Leo a couple months ago, unfortunately my vet didn't carry them, so I asked the owner of the hollistic pet store I go to if she had anyone in mind. She knew where to send me right away and it worked out great.


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## charchi (Apr 17, 2012)

Hi AussieLass, yes i do not want to get injections for them, so i will get charchi on to the same one your using, thanks for your input, and i think it,s great how people are starting to get their backs up about , vaccinations, and standing up to there vets. I allway,s used to get , all of their fist puppy shots, and from there on only every 3 years, but now i,m going to ask for the test to be done first, do you vaccinate 3 yearly or test first? thanks- janet.


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## momofmany (Apr 23, 2012)

when I was a kid we always had dogs and my parents got the dogs shots done as a puppy only 1 at 3 months old and that's all the got for the rest of their lives. Then about 15 - 20 years ago they started with this getting dogs shots done every year well I never have done that it wasn't a necessity when I was a kid why did the rules change. What the vets wanted to make more money off people. Its not right and it should be stopped before we cause more problems for our furry friends shame on who ever started this over vaccination stuff.


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## WinniesMum (Jan 20, 2013)

Rip Gino 


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## erinself (Jan 20, 2013)

I am so glad I came across this post. I am wondering at what age should they get their first puppy vaccines? Is an all-in-one ok for them? I think that is all the place I am going does. They are a non-profit place that does low cost vacs and neutering. I know there are some scary illnesses that are quite common for dogs that these vacs can prevent so I want to get them done at least initially. Some people think I am a horrible mom but I do not vaccinate my children. The incidences of the diseases these shots are supposed to prevent are either so rare or not serious enough to risk the many many potential problems that come from the vaccines, which are much more common than the actual diseases. If you look at it like this: there is a (say .o125%) chance (not exact number, don't have it memorized) that a child will get pertussis. Only possibly 10% of those cases cause serious problems. But there is something like an 8% chance that a child can get problems like Autism and paralysis from these vaccines! So, yeah, I don't vaccinate my children. That said, parvovirus, rabies, and heartworm are much more common so I do believe dogs should get them initially. Anyway... enough rambling... what age should I get the initial puppy vaccines done?


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## Stewbs (Jan 23, 2013)

Why is heartworm prevention bad? I am caring for my girlfriend's Mega-Chihuahua (12 lb boy) right now and I was considering putting him on heartguard or similar because I now live in Florida... he used to live in PA where it is not needed.

Background: I am a medical doctor (disclosing bc not trying to ambush anyone)


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## MMS (Aug 2, 2012)

Stewbs said:


> Why is heartworm prevention bad? I am caring for my girlfriend's Mega-Chihuahua (12 lb boy) right now and I was considering putting him on heartguard or similar because I now live in Florida... he used to live in PA where it is not needed.
> 
> Background: I am a medical doctor (disclosing bc not trying to ambush anyone)


Heart worm preventative is bad b/c it is poison. So, you are poisoning your dog _just in case_ he _may_ contract the parasite... which the majority of dogs will not even come into contact with in their lifetime. 


This is off a website pushing the use of the preventative:

DogAware.com Articles: Heartworm Prevention in Dogs

_Heartworm preventatives work by killing heartworm larvae that have already infected the dog, but before they can mature into adult worms that cause damage. When you give your dog heartworm preventative, you are killing any larvae that have infected your dog within the last one to two months. Any larvae that have been in your dog longer than 60 days are more likely to survive the treatment and go on to mature into adult worms.

Also, your dog may become infected the day after you give heartworm preventative, the drugs do not provide any future protection at all. _


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## Lindsayj (Apr 18, 2012)

erinself said:


> I am so glad I came across this post. I am wondering at what age should they get their first puppy vaccines? Is an all-in-one ok for them? I think that is all the place I am going does. They are a non-profit place that does low cost vacs and neutering. I know there are some scary illnesses that are quite common for dogs that these vacs can prevent so I want to get them done at least initially. Some people think I am a horrible mom but I do not vaccinate my children. The incidences of the diseases these shots are supposed to prevent are either so rare or not serious enough to risk the many many potential problems that come from the vaccines, which are much more common than the actual diseases. If you look at it like this: there is a (say .o125%) chance (not exact number, don't have it memorized) that a child will get pertussis. Only possibly 10% of those cases cause serious problems. But there is something like an 8% chance that a child can get problems like Autism and paralysis from these vaccines! So, yeah, I don't vaccinate my children. That said, parvovirus, rabies, and heartworm are much more common so I do believe dogs should get them initially. Anyway... enough rambling... what age should I get the initial puppy vaccines done?



Just so you know, the man who did research saying that children can get autism from vaccines was proven that he faked all of his research. People can't get autism from a vaccine. This is a huge myth that a lot of people still believe.


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## Rubyannie (Jan 24, 2013)

*no more boosters*

I only ever have my dogs vacs done as puppies, then one booster only. I've had various breeds for 30 years and they never contracted any canine deseases. I think over vaccinating causes more harm than good.


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## erinself (Jan 20, 2013)

That's what they say.... but I personally know children who were perfectly normal, happy little children one week and then after being vaccinated they were never the same. Also there are more children who die every year from complications due to the pertussis vaccine in the US than have died in the history of pertussis in England, where they do not vaccinate for it- and our kids still get pertussis! Not going to debate it I just wanted to add to this conversation but I have done a ton of research and I believe it is what is best for my children and myself.


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## Stewbs (Jan 23, 2013)

Have you ever seen a baby in critical care because his mother was a carrier of pertussis (which can sometimes only manifest as mild cold-like symptoms in adults) and ignorantly refused his vaccine? I have. It was awful and could have been prevented.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Stewbs said:


> Why is heartworm prevention bad? I am caring for my girlfriend's Mega-Chihuahua (12 lb boy) right now and I was considering putting him on heartguard or similar because I now live in Florida... he used to live in PA where it is not needed.
> 
> Background: I am a medical doctor (disclosing bc not trying to ambush anyone)


I hate to say it's bad, but it may not be necessary depending on where you live. I went to a vaccine/heartworm seminar given by a holistic vet and he told us his recommendation for our area, basically to give it from April to October every 45 days. Drug companies push every 30 for more $$$$ and it's easier to remember. Studies have been done to show the 1/2 life and effectiveness of every 45 days. 
Being that you like in Florida, may need to give them year round. 
Check this link out if you have time, I have this book and it is a really good start into learning about dog food, vaccines, titers, heartworm, ect

http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2009/05/13/heartworm-medication-safety/

Also, I am a pharmacist so I am pro drugs when we and our pets need them. 


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

Zorana1125 said:


> I hate to say it's bad, but it may not be necessary depending on where you live. I went to a vaccine/heartworm seminar given by a holistic vet and he told us his recommendation for our area, basically to give it from April to October every 45 days. Drug companies push every 30 for more $$$$ and it's easier to remember. Studies have been done to show the 1/2 life and effectiveness of every 45 days.
> Being that you like in Florida, may need to give them year round.
> Check this link out if you have time, I have this book and it is a really good start into learning about dog food, vaccines, titers, heartworm, ect
> 
> ...


It's the same thing here. We only medicate during the hotter months and we're in one of only a few high risk areas in Canada for heartworm. 


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## erinself (Jan 20, 2013)

Stewbs said:


> Have you ever seen a baby in critical care because his mother was a carrier of pertussis (which can sometimes only manifest as mild cold-like symptoms in adults) and ignorantly refused his vaccine? I have. It was awful and could have been prevented.
> 
> 
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Actually my vaccinated cousin came close to dying from pertussis... This is what I am saying. The pertussis vacs don't work. Was the mother unvaccinated? It makes no sense to risk the problems vacs can cause when this particular one has a poor track record for success. As does the flu shot which has been known to paralyze formerly healthy adults.


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## Lindsayj (Apr 18, 2012)

erinself said:


> That's what they say.... but I personally know children who were perfectly normal, happy little children one week and then after being vaccinated they were never the same. Also there are more children who die every year from complications due to the pertussis vaccine in the US than have died in the history of pertussis in England, where they do not vaccinate for it- and our kids still get pertussis! Not going to debate it I just wanted to add to this conversation but I have done a ton of research and I believe it is what is best for my children and myself.


I do not judge what you feel is right for your family at all! I just don't like to hear people say incorrect information that is not proven medically. You can say that you feel a certain way and that is perfectly fine though of course. I wasn't trying to argue, just making sure that facts were correct.


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## So_many_chis (Sep 1, 2012)

I had the first set of shots done with all of mine (or shots when I got my new rescues) but that's it. I learnt a lot from my friend/breeder many years ago and researched vaccinations. A lot of people frown at me when I tell them but it's our decision. We do blood work when required and would welcome any essential shots. Apart from that, we don't respond to the 'yearly reminder'.


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## Lizlow77 (Jan 25, 2013)

Wow, thank for the heads up! 
Scary, I take my new baby Zoe (8weeks) in for her first vet visit next week. I will be sure to research all the info before go....
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## fizzy n kirbys mum (Jan 17, 2005)

My Fizzy Dave nearly died due to a booster reaction, Never again will I booster my dogs  

For a year after he lost weight, was miserable, bad coat,chewed his feet etc...
He is ok now but not as strong as he used to be.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

erinself said:


> That's what they say.... but I personally know children who were perfectly normal, happy little children one week and then after being vaccinated they were never the same. *Also there are more children who die every year from complications due to the pertussis vaccine in the US than have died in the history of pertussis in England, where they do not vaccinate for it- and our kids still get pertussis!* Not going to debate it I just wanted to add to this conversation but I have done a ton of research and I believe it is what is best for my children and myself.


I don’t know how the vaccination of children came into this – but I have to correct you Erinself – you say that in England children do not receive the pertussis vaccine –also known as Whooping Cough –* that is 100% incorrect and your research is wrong.* This link will show you that uptake of the pertussis or as it is also known the whooping cough vaccine is over 90% in England, Ireland is similar.

Whooping Cough Vaccination | Doctor | Patient.co.uk

My daugher when she was 3 weeks old got whooping cough and spent 3 months in intensive care, she was extremely ill and was very, very fortunate to have survived – at 3 weeks she was too young to have received the first round of vaccinations but caught it from a child who was not vaccinated and had whooping cough.

I study historical documents as part of my work and I have come across records of parishes losing almost all their children through measles, whooping cough, etc. etc in the 1800s and early 1900s before vaccinations were available – it is heartbreaking to see entire families lose all their children month after month, villages losing almost all their children to diseases which fortunately now are preventable. 

Vaccinations save lives – do we really want to return to the days where TB, Polio, Whooping Cough, Measles, etc etc wipe out populations of children because that is what happened before Vaccination, these were deadly and vicious diseases which swept through countries with no mercy – yes nowadays some people think they are safe not vaccinating their children but that is only because the majority of children around them are vaccinated and therefore the diseases don’t spread as they used to– but the more people who don’t vaccinate – the more children will die of these diseases again, and I for one am extremely angry at the family who did not vaccinate their child and who passed the whooping cough unto my then 3 week old child.

It is 100% proven that people/children die from these diseases.


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## erinself (Jan 20, 2013)

Well, as I said, my cousin got it, having been vaccinated. Adults get it, having been vaccinated. I may be wrong about the country the research stated did not vaccinate for pertussis. I read it quite a while back. I still know people personally who have had some major negative side affects from them. I know a mother that had a perfectly healthy 2 year old until he got booster shots and is now severely mentally handicapped and will basically be a two year old forever. I have spoken with a woman who had a career and was a runner and got a flu shot and was paralyzed the next day. I am not saying vacs in and of themselves are a bad idea but I am saying that there needs to be more research done before they start giving these shots to the public. They will change one minor part (so it seems) of a formula of a vaccine and just use it without much testing and it has had terrible effects. I don't trust them. They say that due to the nature of the problem, such as a swine flu outbreak, they need to quickly get the vaccination out there and there isn't time for extensive testing. I say it is unacceptable. My best friend got the swine flu vaccine and was in bed for a month. They say "she must have contracted it the day before she got the vac" I say no way. She was fine, got the shot, got very sick. It happened to lots of people. People who didn't come in contact with it anywhere else and were just following a doctor's recommendations. If there was extensive research done, done by people who were not making a profit from these vaccines, before they were allowed to be used. If the parameters were different on what constitutes "safe." I might get them. Right now it just seems the potential hazards outweigh the potential benefits.


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## erinself (Jan 20, 2013)

ljwilson said:


> I do not judge what you feel is right for your family at all! I just don't like to hear people say incorrect information that is not proven medically. You can say that you feel a certain way and that is perfectly fine though of course. I wasn't trying to argue, just making sure that facts were correct.


I didn't feel like you were. I was just stating what I believe and my opinion.


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## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

erinself said:


> ...... If you look at it like this: there is a (say .o125%) chance (not exact number, don't have it memorized) that a child will get pertussis. Only possibly 10% of those cases cause serious problems. But there is something like an 8% chance that a child can get problems like Autism and paralysis from these vaccines! So, yeah, I don't vaccinate my children. That said, parvovirus, rabies, and heartworm are much more common so I do believe dogs should get them initially. Anyway... enough rambling... what age should I get the initial puppy vaccines done?


I am just saying that if you are writing about something as important as children’s vaccinations, it is essential that you have your facts 100% correct and can quote from reliable sources – saying children in England are not vaccinated against pertussis/whooping cough was totally incorrect and even the statistics you quote you say yourself you can’t rightly remember but yet you quote some statistics from heaven knows where.

Wrong facts makes people question the entire thing and it all just turns into Chinese Whispers - I know someone who knew someone type of thing - which is a complete disservice to us, our children and the people who work so hard to protect our children.


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

I think it's important to keep in mind that a flu shot for a healthy adult is a much different story than a possibly life saving vaccine for a child. I don't know a lot about flu shots, but I wouldn't imagine that their effect would be instantaneous. I believe that some shots even take 2 weeks to begin "working". Erin, it could be possible that your friend got swine flu because her vaccine hadn't kicked in. This happened to a cousin of mine this year with the seasonal flu shot.


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## Missygal (May 19, 2011)

I just took Emmie in for her Rabies and the assistant wanted to give her 3 other shots. I said all I want is Rabies and her Distemper in two weeks. (She can't have two at same time because of her allergic reaction to bees). She was very persistent until my vet whom I've gone to for 10 years shood her out of the room. I can't believe how many vaccines they want to give dogs just since last year. 


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## Lizlow77 (Jan 25, 2013)

Can anyone recommend a vaccine schedule that is safe for my 9 week old baby Ziggy.... 


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Liz-here in the U.S., it is recommended that he receive a puppy immunization series. At 8, 12 and 16 weeks.


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## Lizlow77 (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks, he did get his 8 weeks 


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## teetee (Aug 25, 2011)

shared on my facebook...LOCAL VETS NEED THIS MOST OF ALL!


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## teetee (Aug 25, 2011)

KrystalLeigh said:


> I think it's important to keep in mind that a flu shot for a healthy adult is a much different story than a possibly life saving vaccine for a child. I don't know a lot about flu shots, but I wouldn't imagine that their effect would be instantaneous. I believe that some shots even take 2 weeks to begin "working". Erin, it could be possible that your friend got swine flu because her vaccine hadn't kicked in. This happened to a cousin of mine this year with the seasonal flu shot.


I don't get the flu shot. I don't believe that its effects work. One year, my entire life (that I know of anyway), in 2009, I got the flu mist. I have never been so sick in my life.


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## teetee (Aug 25, 2011)

can I add on to this Zorana? This is my personal opinion, but I hope that someone reads it and it makes a difference. Sorry if it's already been mentioned...

I don't feel it's very safe for the dog/cat to get more than one shot in one week. If your dog goes in for bordatella and rabies in the same day and has a reaction, how are you to know what shot it was that he/she reacted to? Miya had a reaction to one of her puppy shots, and thank goodness I did not let the vet give rabies that same day, as she was PRESSURING me to.


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## jesuschick (Dec 5, 2010)

Tiffany, I agree.

I am always so surprised when I read here that he/she is getting their rabies shot along with their last puppy vaccine or rabies shot at spay/neuter.

That would be a big no for me. 

With rabies, I dose Benadryl the day before, day of and day after just to be safe. I take immunizations seriously.


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

teetee said:


> can I add on to this Zorana? This is my personal opinion, but I hope that someone reads it and it makes a difference. Sorry if it's already been mentioned...
> 
> I don't feel it's very safe for the dog/cat to get more than one shot in one week. If your dog goes in for bordatella and rabies in the same day and has a reaction, how are you to know what shot it was that he/she reacted to? Miya had a reaction to one of her puppy shots, and thank goodness I did not let the vet give rabies that same day, as she was PRESSURING me to.


Absolutely Tiffany, add anything you would like. I agree with you completely. This thread was from a while back, so I don't remember everything that was said but I did want to add something too in case I left it out previously. 
When we got Leo, his breeder did the vaccines at 6-7 weeks and from what I read, the mommy's antibodies can cancel out some of the vaccine, so that's why they say to wait until at least 8 weeks. 
So when Leo was due for his next set of puppy shots (12 weeks) I did just parvo with nothing else in it- it took me forever to find a vet who had single and bivalent vaccines, everyone always has the 5 in 1 or 7 in 1. Anyway, 10 days later he had just the distemper. After 4 weeks I came back (16 weeks) to do a parvo/distemper combo since he tolerated them individually. And after 4-5 weeks we did rabies. Some vets will make u redo all 3 if the pups had the vaccine prior to 8 weeks but I did only 2 more. It ended up being more trips to the vet and prolonging the immunization process but it was worth it to me to make sure I didn't overload him. This was much longer than expected, lol. 


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

Also, I should mention the AAHA vaccine guidelines have finally changed the annual recommendations to every 3 years and vets continue to push them every year!!!! That's insane!! 


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## erinself (Jan 20, 2013)

Hello- is it safe for Bitsy to get all of her puppy vaccines at once? I have found a clinic that will give them separately but they only do rabies, distemper, parvo, bordatella, and civ. What other ones does she need? Thanks


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

erinself said:


> Hello- is it safe for Bitsy to get all of her puppy vaccines at once? I have found a clinic that will give them separately but they only do rabies, distemper, parvo, bordatella, and civ. What other ones does she need? Thanks


I only do parvo, distemper, and rabies for puppies. Then rabies after that since its required by law and titers every 3-5 years. I never do bordatella and I don't know what civ is?


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## Zorana1125 (Oct 24, 2010)

And all 3 will be due for rabies this year and I'm going to go ahead and titer that too. I know it doesn't hold up in court if you get sued but I don't see any of my chi's biting someone. 


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## erinself (Jan 20, 2013)

So is there not much danger from hepatitis? And do I need to worm her? I had read that puppies can be born with worms... She will be walked on a path where lots of other dogs frequent and may occasionally visit the dog park if this makes a difference...


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## erinself (Jan 20, 2013)

I guess CIV is like swine flu? It's pretty recent as far as vaccines go


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

teetee said:


> I don't get the flu shot. I don't believe that its effects work. One year, my entire life (that I know of anyway), in 2009, I got the flu mist. I have never been so sick in my life.


I've never had a flu shot in my life. I was allergic to eggs when I was little and the shots are all egg based. I'm pretty sure that I've grown out of the allergy (although I haven't had this confirmed by an allergist), but I still choose not to get the shot. Now if they would invent a vaccine for food poisoning I would seriously consider it! I seem to be a magnet.


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## KrystalLeigh (Aug 17, 2011)

teetee said:


> can I add on to this Zorana? This is my personal opinion, but I hope that someone reads it and it makes a difference. Sorry if it's already been mentioned...
> 
> I don't feel it's very safe for the dog/cat to get more than one shot in one week. If your dog goes in for bordatella and rabies in the same day and has a reaction, how are you to know what shot it was that he/she reacted to? Miya had a reaction to one of her puppy shots, and thank goodness I did not let the vet give rabies that same day, as she was PRESSURING me to.


I agree with this and so does my vet. I'm really lucky that my vet knows what he's doing because I got Odie's first set of shots before I researched them. I believe we did them 2 weeks apart. Even when I took her in for her 2 boosters with her full grown he did them a month apart and he agreed that she didn't need the rabies booster and that we would titer from then on. The vet tech was ready to schedule her for all vaccines at once.


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## teetee (Aug 25, 2011)

sounds like a heavenly vet! My m-i-l suggested that I look in to becoming a veterinarian. I said that I couldn't because I wouldn't be able to handle people's opinions for whats best for their dogs health, lol, and that's the truth.


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