# Mary, Mary, Quite Contrary



## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

LOL well, this question is pertaining to Asia. She has been acting really strangely (spoiled/bratty?) the past week. 

When I call her to come to me, she plops down on the floor wherever she is and just stays there, looking straight at me. If I go to get her, she runs away or will hide behind the curtains.

When she is in her pen she will then DEMAND our attention, barking and yipping and howling until we come get her. The second she is out and free, she goes back to ignoring anything we ask of her, unless we get out food to coax her over. 

If we do anything she DOESN'T like, teeth brushing, nail clipping, putting her to bed, putting her in her pen, she throws a little temper tantrum just like a kid would. 

If one of the others is getting something that she isn't, she FLIPS OUT.

We don't correct her at all. Her breeder suggested we don't, because she has a more sensitive personality, which I definitely agree is true. We are instead using positive reinforcement to train her. Our others are all trained/treated with basic dog whisperer techniques. They are all decently well behaved.

Well anyway, there are certain things I am just not OK w/ my dogs doing. One of them is trying to steal food from people when they are eating. We often eat out in the TV room on TV trays. All the other dogs are on the floor & know that is where they are to stay. For almost a month straight I have put her down, only to have her immediately run back up and try to shove her face in whatever I am eating. This happens anywhere from 20-50 times per meal. It gets OLD lol. If we eat in the other room, she yips and yips and yips endlessly. The others just stare at her like she is absolutely insane. We tried squirting her with a water bottle, which our others hate, she thinks it is a game and dances around for more squirting.

So tonight I finally had enough and gave her the tiniest little dog whisperer "jab" and "tshhhhh" and OMG you'd have thought the world ended. She ran away yelping hysterically (think of it this way, I would poke myself in the eye more forcefully than I "poked" her, and this is how she reacted), and now won't look at me. I brought her over to snuggle me and instead she went and laid on the potty pad sulking, actually looking like she was crying??? Then she now has come up and is curled up behind my knees, but every time I even look at her she gives me this impudent little look and turns her head away.

Sometimes when I call her over to me, she runs over to "daddy". 

Correct me if I am wrong, but, don't dogs live in the present? Shouldn't she be over this by now? 

Also, what do you guys recommend for the rest of her little issues ha ha ha...like not coming when called, and laying down or actually going and hiding behind the curtains? Or her throwing fits when she is in her pen (which is seldom), put to bed, or teeth brushed? I genuinely believe telling her no will make her more timid. If I end up being able to show her, I don't want her timid at all. She has a totally different personality than Bryco does. It's not bad, its just I am not sure what to do to help her learn what is OK and what is not. She is VERY smart and has been potty trained for over 2 weeks now.

Its mostly hilarious, that this tiny little fluff ball can have such attitude, but I know all of these things could be problematic later on.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I also forgot to add that if she decides she WANTS our attention...believe you me...she sure makes sure she gets it!!


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## cherper (May 8, 2009)

Oh Boy! LOL Well this is the joy of puppyhood haha 
Well I would (if you haven't already) really work on calling her and when she comes, treating her. Hopefully that will stick and she will WANT to come thinking it is a rewarding experience. Hopefully she is food motivated. 
Leila will on occasion act like a little kid..when she is in her pen for too long, for instance in the evening when everyone is home and active she will make a tiny cry and she has even put her paw in her water bowl and splashed a bunch of it out.  lol She's only done this a few times but it was kinda funny. :laughing8:
When she ignores you and you are calling her, I would just give lots of attention to the other dogs calling them and then playing and bombarding them with tummy rubs, etc. hopefully she will see that "coming" begets "good stuff" 
Obviously you know not to get her out when she is making a fuss. So that should in time solve that ..hopefully. 
What are you doing each time she tries to get in your food?
I think just giving her a firm NO and a poke should be enough to get her to stop the bad behavior when you are trying to groom her.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

I have just been putting her on the floor when she gets in our food. We made mac and cheese tonight (classy, I know), and I was talking to hubby and I look down and there is Ms Asia nose deep in my cheesey mac inhaling as quickly as she can. That is when I gave her the tiny poke and she acted like I'd chucked her clear across the room to a den of alligators! And I end up putting her on the floor 20-50 times. She has figured out how to get on the couch w/o the stairs. I swear she is just too smart for her own good.

And yes, we ignore her when she makes a fuss. She has been quite creative with her fussing. I am actually really impressed.LOL. The other night when we put her to bed she wasn't pleased and kept wailing for attention. She had pottied before we put her to bed. Well, soon her wailing got louder and louder, ... she had pooped again and was intentionally stepping in it with her front paws. Un. be. leiv. a. ble. She can definitely hold her potty. So...she just figured we'd HAVE to come if she did that.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Also wanted to say...when she throws her hissy fits when I am grooming her I just ignore it. She isn't acting scared or uncomfortable. Literally just whining in misery. It's really kinda ridiculous!


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## cherper (May 8, 2009)

:laughing8: teehee :laughing8: That little turd! She is a little prima donna. lol
She is gonna be a tough nut to crack methinks. But def. doable. haha and you are good, so she has met her match.


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## jan896 (Dec 9, 2009)

flippedstars said:


> she acted like I'd chucked her clear across the room to a den of alligators!.


OMG...I can't stop laughing at that quote........:sign5: :foxes251:

I can't help you on your 'problem child' but will certainly watch this post as Chico won't come to me either(only when HE wants to)... so maybe I can learn something here...

good luck on your Diva syndrome...


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## Tink (Oct 14, 2009)

See, personally I respectfully disagree with the approach of not correcting because she has a sensitive personality. I DO agree that positive reinforcement is a very good thing, an excellent tool, but in my own personal experience over many years of owning dogs (some extremely timid) correction of inappropriate behavior works extremely well along WITH positive reinforcement. 

You know your dog, I don't, so I'm not trying to second guess your methods, just giving you an alternate point of view. I believe that a dog will GET what's expected of him a LOT faster if some very calm, matter-of-fact correction of inappropriate behavior is applied. I use a noise, reserved for correction purposes only. It's a kind of deep, growly "Ahhh" sound and my dogs have come to know that sound as "uh-oh, we screwed up!" It's actually funny, the occasional times I have to make that noise, they both RUN to their crates and sit there like little angels, while the evidence of their mis-behavior is all around....the torn up tissues littering the entire floor, for example lol! 

I think because Asia has never been corrected by you, she reacted really strongly to correction from you. How do you think a Mama dog disciplines her puppies? SHE certainly doesn't ignore anything but positive behavior lol! She puts up with a lot but gets to the point where she'll growl, snap at or nip to let her puppy know he's overstepping. Even the most timid of dogs are used to correction and discipline from their Mama, provided they're given the opportunity to be around Mama Dog long enough to experience it. 

Just my two cents.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Tink said:


> See, personally I respectfully disagree with the approach of not correcting because she has a sensitive personality. I DO agree that positive reinforcement is a very good thing, an excellent tool, but in my own personal experience over many years of owning dogs (some extremely timid) correction of inappropriate behavior works extremely well along WITH positive reinforcement.
> 
> You know your dog, I don't, so I'm not trying to second guess your methods, just giving you an alternate point of view. I believe that a dog will GET what's expected of him a LOT faster if some very calm, matter-of-fact correction of inappropriate behavior is applied. I use a noise, reserved for correction purposes only. It's a kind of deep, growly "Ahhh" sound and my dogs have come to know that sound as "uh-oh, we screwed up!" It's actually funny, the occasional times I have to make that noise, they both RUN to their crates and sit there like little angels, while the evidence of their mis-behavior is all around....the torn up tissues littering the entire floor, for example lol!
> 
> ...


See I completely agree with you. But I figured I would give this new approach (no correction/she can do no wrong approach) a try,...now I am re-thinking. Because she's getting to be really really bratty. Her breeder had to give her a shot on Sunday and she had this little yelping fit when just a few weeks earlier the exact same shot didn't even phase her 

So maybe I just need to re-align a little and use firm but gentle correction. She has been really good learning where to potty but the other things/rules ours follow (e.g. stay off the couch while we eat) just are not understood by her. Even if I positively reinforce her being on the floor, because we are eating, I am actually teaching her to beg.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I agree with Tink! Positive reinforcement is great, don't get me wrong. But dang. Sometimes you just gotta get after them to make your point. We have always disciplined Brody the same way we did our human kids. When they did something wrong, they were disciplined with the 3 F's. *Fast. Fair. And Forgiving. *You get after her IMMEDIATELY when she does something wrong. You don't over-react, you give a correction that's fair. And then you forgive her and move past it. This has always worked with us - whether with little kids or with our pets.  

Also - she's going to have to LEARN that screaming doesn't get her stuff. Just like a kid in the store that's throwing a tantrum. Don't go to her when she's having a fit and get her out. Wait until she's quiet and then go get her. I know you know this.  If she's pooped and she's getting it all over? Huh. Well I guess she's going to have to be covered in poop for awhile until she calms her little butt down. And then once she's quiet and calm - then deal with it. 

This isn't rocket science. It doesn't take a doctorate in psychology to know how to deal with this stuff. Just use your common sense and deal. You've raised 4 other fantastic dogs. She may be a challenge - but she will get there.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> I agree with Tink! Positive reinforcement is great, don't get me wrong. But dang. Sometimes you just gotta get after them to make your point. We have always disciplined Brody the same way we did our human kids. When they did something wrong, they were disciplined with the 3 F's. *Fast. Fair. And Forgiving. *You get after her IMMEDIATELY when she does something wrong. You don't over-react, you give a correction that's fair. And then you forgive her and move past it. This has always worked with us - whether with little kids or with our pets.
> 
> Also - she's going to have to LEARN that screaming doesn't get her stuff. Just like a kid in the store that's throwing a tantrum. Don't go to her when she's having a fit and get her out. Wait until she's quiet and then go get her. I know you know this.  If she's pooped and she's getting it all over? Huh. Well I guess she's going to have to be covered in poop for awhile until she calms her little butt down. And then once she's quiet and calm - then deal with it.
> 
> This isn't rocket science. It doesn't take a doctorate in psychology to know how to deal with this stuff. Just use your common sense and deal. You've raised 5 other fantastic dogs. She may be a challenge - but she will get there.


I like the 3 F's. I want her to be well adjusted and happy. There are certain things she does (she is very very smart) to get attention that just astound me, like the squeezing out a poop and messing in it. LMBO. I have never been one to over-correct or hold anything against my pups. I think she just might also need to get the same treatment the others do.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

You know Kristi - she kinda reminds me of one of those little girls in the Toddlers with Tiara's series! You watch that right?! Don't ya just wanna shake some of those moms?! haha! I know ... some of those toddlers are a real handful but holy cow - look at their parents and how they put up with all their tantrums, etc. ha ha. Here's little Asia - she's what - a pound?! And she's RULING the ROOST. HA HA HA! 

I have no doubt that she'll turn out beautifully.  Both inside and out.


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## Amandarose531 (Aug 9, 2010)

Parenting AND dog training advice in the same thread? :hello1:

Sounds like a diva in training, but I think the 3 F's will get you there.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> You know Kristi - she kinda reminds me of one of those little girls in the Toddlers with Tiara's series! You watch that right?! Don't ya just wanna shake some of those moms?! haha! I know ... some of those toddlers are a real handful but holy cow - look at their parents and how they put up with all their tantrums, etc. ha ha. Here's little Asia - she's what - a pound?! And she's RULING the ROOST. HA HA HA!
> 
> I have no doubt that she'll turn out beautifully.  Both inside and out.


LMAO sooo true. Well, she's 2# but OMG what a little terror she can be. In the same breath, she is so sweet and cuddly when she wants to be.

Edited to add: Her daddy kind of has the personality where he doesn't want to please. I sort of think she may have gotten some of that. He is a beautiful dog but kissing butt just isn't his thing  So I am pretty certain some of that is going against us too.


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## foggy (Oct 12, 2009)

Agree with Ronni and Tracy. Gotta say though that the whole thread and her antics are cracking me up.  I'd like to see the diva in action. She sounds too clever for her own good. haha.


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## omguthrie (Oct 13, 2009)

I agree with Tink and Tracy. One way it was described to me was think of teaching a dog like playing hot and cold. If there was something in the room that I wanted you to pick up but never used the word "cold" (no), just "hot", it would be very difficult for you to figure it out. But if I use both "cold" and "hot" (no and good) you will find it very quickly. Same with dogs. You can correct the negative and praise the positive. 

It sounds to me like she is being a little brat. She has figured out that she can get away with murder and you won't do anything about it. And then when she does want something she can demand it and get it. Just like a bratty 2 year old with no guidance. And then the first time you actually said no (the little poke) she was shocked and amazed. I've heard the dog whisperer say to ignore them for 30 minutes or so after a correction to let their brain absorb what just happened; don't try to make it up to them or interact with them if they are sucking up. Let them figure it out and then go about life as usual.

I've had sensitive dogs around and they actually need the rules and guidance just as much, if not more, than the assertive ones. They really benefit from knowing what is expected and how to do what is 'right'. This gives them confidence as they know how to be a good dog!

I'm sure y'all will get past this and she will be as nice a dog on the inside as she is beautiful on the outside, in the end!!


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

omguthrie said:


> I've had sensitive dogs around and they actually need the rules and guidance just as much, if not more, than the assertive ones. They really benefit from knowing what is expected and how to do what is 'right'. This gives them confidence as they know how to be a good dog!


Love it. That's so true! :hello1:


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## intuition (Jan 19, 2011)

Sounds to me you just got a smart dog, thats trying to train you as you train her  Most of it just sounds like she's being or trying to be a spoiled brat. I agree with positive training, but she does need to know what no is. I'm in the middle of an intensive positive training with a chi, but he still gets firm No's and an occasional butt tap( it is not a hit, no harder then a firm pat) to get his attention away from something since his recall is next to nill. 

But even my well adjusted and manner trained chi ( a different one) has his days where he just won't come to me when i want cuddles. typically it means he wants something different then i do, like me to get down and play or food, since he's on a diet. lol. try getting something super yummy that she doesn't get normally and do the call and present treat thing. should help with that.


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## 2Cheese (Feb 21, 2010)

Kristi....think of it as practice for when you have your own kids


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## cherper (May 8, 2009)

2Cheese said:


> Kristi....think of it as practice for when you have your own kids


Totally !!!


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## AC/DC Fan (Sep 15, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> You know Kristi - she kinda reminds me of one of those little girls in the Toddlers with Tiara's series! You watch that right?! Don't ya just wanna shake some of those moms?! haha! I know ... some of those toddlers are a real handful but holy cow - look at their parents and how they put up with all their tantrums, etc. ha ha. Here's little Asia - she's what - a pound?! And she's RULING the ROOST. HA HA HA!
> 
> I have no doubt that she'll turn out beautifully.  Both inside and out.


I accidentally watch this show sometimes. It's like a freaking train wreck--you can't look away! And, yes, I'd like to just slap the crap out of the mothers for not disciplining their children. Whining is my BIGGEST pet peave in the whole wide world!

OMG, Kristi, Drama Queen Diva Asia is killing me!!! I'm sorry she's being a PITA for you but her antics are huge entertainment for me! She's a riot! Clearly you know what you're doing--look at your other perfect babies. Guess you'll just have to do some things differently with this little show-running fur ball. 
Please keep us posted.


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## tricializ (Jun 1, 2010)

I think she is a lost cause and I will just have to come and rescue her.


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

tricializ said:


> I think she is a lost cause and I will just have to come and rescue her.


Bwah ha ha!!!!! Hilarious Tricia. Kristi I agree, she's just a lost cause. Why don't you stick her in an envelope and mail her to Aunt Tracy.


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## flippedstars (Dec 16, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> Bwah ha ha!!!!! Hilarious Tricia. Kristi I agree, she's just a lost cause. Why don't you stick her in an envelope and mail her to Aunt Tracy.


Ha ha ha b'c Aunt Tracy only wants one!!! Brody says thats BS tho


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