# 1st TIME BREEDER HAS A QUESTION....



## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

Hi I am new here and new to breeding. Right now I ma in the process of breeding my beautiful female Chi (Muffin). 2 nights ago they did their thing and got stuck together for about 30 minutes.....is this when he impregnates her??? Then he didn't want anything to do with her all day yesterday, he would sniff her and then walk off. THEN today, they got stuck together again for about 10 minutes.
I guess my main question would be WHY do they get stuck together and WHAT does it mean????
My Vet never said anything about the 2 getting stuck together, so I am very curious as to WHY this happens.

All replies are greatly appreciated! Thanks.

Jailer


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## TeresaAnn20 (Oct 19, 2004)

What you refer to as a knot is called a tie. Yes when they tie together is when the male inpregnants the female he lets off the sperm into the female.


The reason for the tie dogs do not ejaculate like a man does the sperm seeps through the penis at a time so this is the reason for the tie to ensure pregnacy.


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

Thank you so much for your response!!!! I was so curious about it and even looked for hours on the internet, trying to find info about this. Now I know why I couldn't, because I did not know it was called a "tie". Thanks again!


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

noty meaning too be rude as I am glad you have come here this is the right place for you to learn , but why did you not reasearch a bit more first and get book of the bitch or something similar , also do you know the diet she need specialy and the folic acid etc she needs to take ? also did you find out if your 2 dogs were perfect speciomens of the breed and true to standard etc first as the only reason to breed should be to better the breed 

anyway good luck and please this is JMHO :wave:


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

Ozzysmom-

You know, I just asked a question, do you always try to make people feel stupid for asking a question????? I thought that is what this board was for, or am I wrong??? For you info, yes I do know about the whole diet and Folic Acid thing.

NOW, let me ask you a question......

If people only breed their Chi's to "better the breed" then why do they SELL them for hundreds of dollars????? Why not just GIVE them to good homes??? I mean they were only born to "better the breed" they weren't supposed to be born to make the owners some money. And if you own a male Chi and you breed him with someone elses female, I'm sure you charge the females owner a pretty penny. Just how much would you charge????

Jailer (mommy to Muffin)


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## KJsChihuahuas (Jan 6, 2005)

jailergirl2001 said:


> Ozzysmom-
> 
> You know, I just asked a question, do you always try to make people feel stupid for asking a question????? I thought that is what this board was for, or am I wrong??? For you info, yes I do know about the whole diet and Folic Acid thing.
> 
> ...



Let me just say that I have been breeding and showing for 15 years, I did not want to get into this but since you are so defensive and seem to have a very short temper, not to mention that Ozzymom was simply asking a question and to be frank you are very rude. 
*
Let me shed some light on why I adopt out our puppies: ( I am ONLY SPEAKING for MYSELF not other breeders!!)

It takes a lot of care to raise and show Chihuahuas. More money that you will ever make in selling the puppies. I do not sell my show quality pups they are kept and made champions. When you adopt out the pet quality pups as I do there is a adoption fee of $ 400 that includes, vet checks. shots, worming, crate (even if you are not shipping) Blanket, toys, and food (yes I send a 7lb bag of food home with the new mommies and daddies) and a pack of puppy pee pee pads ( yes I send them home too) And a tube of Nutracal (yes I send that home too). And let me tell you that come to right around the $400 dollars. Now I am not saying that there are people out there just looking to make money. But if you find a breeder that cares alot about their pups as I do then there is NO PROFIT to be made!!! :wink: *


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## luv4mygirls (Feb 20, 2005)

not to add fuel to the fire but it think she was just asking about the process of getting stuck together.... not many people know what happens to the male's penis during impregnation. even some breeders don't know a lot about anatomy......... obviously she asked her veterinarian questions she mentioned it in the first post. yes getting a book aobut it would have been ideal..... but i think some people tend to read into things as seeing a question like someone is ignorant and doesn't know what they are doing. and others tend to get very defensive. now that said, 

here's some info i think you wanted to hear.....

- Os Penis. The objective 
of this small bone within 
the free extremity of the 
penis (glans penis) is to 
direct the male's nonerect 
penis into the 
bitch's vulva and vagina 
during the early stages 
of mating. 
- Bulbus Glandis. This 
swelling of the penis is 
located toward the rear 
end of the os penis. As 
soon as the male dog 
inserts his penis into the 
bitch's vagina and begins 
to thrust, the bulbus 
glandis enlarges to a firm 
spherical shape, resulting 
in the so-called "coital 
tie." This tie prevents the 
male dog and the bitch 
from separating immediately 
after ejaculation 
and may last from 5 to 
60 minutes.


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

My post was in no way rude as KJ said I wass asking a question and even my reply started off "not meaning to be rude.............." I just get a little fed up with people coming on here and have bred their bitch who is not true to the standard etc when there are poor dogs sat in rescues etc and eventually with all these backyard breeders( not that Im implying the poster is a backyard breeder) in a few years chis will not look like chis anymore and it just breaks my heart  

thanks so much KJ for sticking up for me this person does not know me and obviously didnt read my post properly this is a discussion board and wouldnt it be boring if we all agreed on the same thing for one us mods wouldnt be needed lol, I stated it was JMHO so sue me .................. :?


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## KJsChihuahuas (Jan 6, 2005)

ozzysmom said:


> My post was in no way rude as KJ said I wass asking a question and even my reply started off "not meaning to be rude.............." I just get a little fed up with people coming on here and have bred their bitch who is not true to the standard etc when there are poor dogs sat in rescues etc and eventually with all these backyard breeders( not that Im implying the poster is a backyard breeder) in a few years chis will not look like chis anymore and it just breaks my heart
> 
> thanks so much KJ for sticking up for me this person does not know me and obviously didnt read my post properly this is a discussion board and wouldnt it be boring if we all agreed on the same thing for one us mods wouldnt be needed lol, I stated it was JMHO so sue me .................. :?




No problem at all!! I did not think you where being rude at all, usually when people are breeding for the WRONG reasons, like money, they get very defensive. So on that note you now know why they where so angry


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## Tinker (Jan 3, 2005)

I've never bred chi's but I did raise and show shih tzu's for years and yes, if you care about breed standards and breeding out defects it's expensive and time consuming and sometimes emotionally painful. I watched that breed go down hill due to excessive popularity and people that didn't care as long as they got some puppies on the ground to sell. I don't want it to happen to chi's also. Our concern isn't for anything more than the good of the breed.


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

THANK YOU, LUVMYPET!!!!!!!

I was ONLY asking a question so that I would I know the whole process. Thank you LuvMyPet for the great information. I do adore my Chi and I did not want her to get hurt, so it frightened me. who would think to ask their Vet, "so, do the 2 get "stuck together" ?" Not me. Anyway, you helped mr to understand why and eased my mind. Thank you again!

KJ - Quite frankly, I do not think I was being rude. When I read OzzyMoms response I thought it was VERY inappropriate. She does not know me, all I asked for was a simple answer to a question, and it seemed as though she was attacking me, like I didn't know what I was doing, or how I was supposed to do it, and WHY I was doing it.
AND....my Chi is up to standard, thank you. The stud that I bred her with is also compatible in size and standard. I am not a "backyard breeder", just so you know. I was very picky in choosing a stud. I would never do anything to harm my Chi or the Chi breed. They are beautiful dogs.
As for the selling of dogs, I see it on here ALL the time. Chi's for sale for $1200.00. You can't tell me these people who sell a Chi for that much are looking to "better the breed". I was not implying thay YOU yourself sold your pups for a profit, just people in general. I see it all the time.

Ozzysmom...yes I get a little defensive when I am attacked by someone that does NOT know me and someone who makes me feel stupid for asking a completley logical question. I will not apologize for that. All I needed was a simple answer to ease my mind, not some smart a** comments or someone telling me the "only" reason to breed. I have a Vet that takes care of that end, thank you. Maybe I should have called him to find out the answer to my question.


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## Vala (Jul 8, 2004)

jailergirl2001 said:


> yes I get a little defensive when I am attacked by someone that does NOT know me and someone who makes me feel stupid for asking a completley logical question. I will not apologize for that.


 :wink: You don't know HER either! So I guess you guys are even...personally I would expect my breeder to know what it means for the dogs to get "tied" but I guess you gotta start somewhere right? This is a great forum very friendly with just few glitches here and there..and compared to Ozzysmom's response (who's known for speaking her mind) I find your answer aggressive and rude..but then again the written word can seem to be what is not!...that said..I think you missunderstood her questioning...she had the best intentions i'm sure... :wink:


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

Vala....

I did not answer her thread as if I knew her, she answered MY thread with some smart ass comments and I don't appreciate it. Half of her response had absolutley nothing to do with my question. If I wanted to know her opinions I would have asked for them


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## luv4mygirls (Feb 20, 2005)

it's "luvmypuppet" and you're welcome.....


however i'm not on anyone's side, as i understand where both sides are coming form..... i'm nuetral here :wave: i think both of you were a little standoffish in your responses but i agree with vala about the written word and things can be taken out of context very easily.....


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

are you calling me a smart arse ?

I had the best intentions of your dog and YES ANY BREEDER I BUY OF I WOULD EXPECT THEM TO KNOW WHAT TIE IS , HELL I KNOW WHAT IT IS AND IM NOT A BREEDER.

You should of done your research first

and on that note I would like to quote one of our brilliant members oh and thanks Vala :wink: 

Kj who is most definately NOT a backyard breeder :



> No problem at all!! I did not think you where being rude at all, usually when people are breeding for the WRONG reasons, like money, they get very defensive. So on that note you now know why they where so angry


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

I am sorry but stating a smart ass comment was being made is very rude we are all very protective of the breed here. IF it werent for that love we would not question the things we do. when someone is expecting to breed they should know what a tie is. Hence, they didnt do *enough* research or ask the proper questions. Now on another note you say you " thought"he was hurting her you didnt know what was happening. Now not having the knowledge of what a tie is what if he was hurting her?.. Wouldnt it be a little late now to find out he did?


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

Brill point janie  but I suppose your question like mine will be deemed a smart ass coment :shock: even though like you say we just love the breed so much and we expect responsible breeders to do their research before they actually mate their dog rather than after :?


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## luv4mygirls (Feb 20, 2005)

see i took her question as wanting to know what happens with the males penis and how they end up being stuck... kind of like an anatomy question. not knowing aobut getting stuck together is one thing (i didn't realize she had no idea it would happen) i just thought she was wondering why and how it happens. your right in that aspect to be concerned clare.


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

Ozzysmom.....

WHY are you in this room if you are NOT a breeder???? Is this room not for "breeders and breeding"? And to answer your question....YES you are a smart ass. I have read some of the other posts and same thing...SMART ASS comments. I think you just like to cause these arguments. 

And for everyones information, I DID do my research. Maybe I did not know what "tie" meant when I was reading up on breeding. I do believe that I did the responsible things that breeders should do when they breed their dogs. I took her to the Vet and discussed breeding with him. I bred her with a stud that is comparable in size, even a little smaller I might add. My Muffin is 4 pounds and the stud was 3 pounds. And guess what, he has papers! They are both as purebred as they come. I started her on puppy food for reproductive stages and lactation with Folic Acid, lots of vitamins, and Iron way before she was even bred. So PLEASE, do NOT tell me that I did not do my research before I decided to breed. Yes maybe I should have asked the VET what "tie" meant. Excuse me for being more concerned about how to give my Chi a healthy pregnancy for her and the puppies than knowing what "tie" meant. To be honest, asking the vet what that meant was the farthest thing from my mind while he was discussing the importance of nutrition and not getting a stud that was too big and the process of whelping, and the dangers, and the things to look for when she is pregnant, and the things to look for while she is whelping that may indicate that I need to take her to the Vet, and what to do with the puppies once they are born, like cutting the cord, and drying them off, and moving them so they do not get trampled while the mother is having another pup, and the importance of staying with her while she is whelping and after. Taking temperatures, weighing pups, writing things down. Yes it was all alot to absorb at the time. And YES if you are wondering, I wrote it down for future reference. NOW don't call be an irresponsible breeder!

I do NOT think that you are qualified to give people your replys or smart ass comments in this room, if you yourself do not breed.


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

I am a MODERATOR hence why i am in this room I am here to moderate this forum and I obviously know more about breeding than you, you do not have to be a breeder to come into this section , we just put it restricted because of all the arguments like this :shock: 

I FOR ONE AND I KNOW ALOT OF PEOPLE WHO WILL AGREE WOULD NOT EVEN THINK OF BREEDING A BITCH THAT WAS ONLY 4 POUNDS

Please do not call me a smart ass, I am smart because I know a hell of alot about chihuahuas and I come on here evryday for the last year and help as many people as I can and more often than not every now and then we get people just like you who come here and cause problems and Luvmypuppet I read it that she didnt know what happened with the mechanics the same as Janie did , glad you see know why we were so worried :wave:


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

also this thread will be locked and you will be removed from the breeders forum if you continue with this negative trouble making attitude I asked an innocent question I am worried that you are breeding precious chis when you dont even know what a tie is etc


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

This same woman did this to me on one of my threads like I told you before jailergirl2001. She thinks she is god on this site. She didn't like my thread or my opinion, because it wasn't hers.


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

You have so crossed the line sweetheart :wave:


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

ozzysmom....

Excuse me if I am wrong, but I do believe that the standards for a Chi is 6 pounds or under. So yes, Muffin meets standards and yes, she has the right build to build. Are you a Licensed Vet? If not, who do you think you are to tell my the opposite of what my Vet told me????

I really do not care if you are the Moderater of this room. You don't do a very good job at it. Instead of moderating, it seems you like to just piss people off. So ban me if you want to. I think that if you do ban me, you just don't have any defense against what I am saying and so you choose not to debate this because you won't win. JMHO

I for one do not think you should be a moderator of a topic that you do not practice. I thought when I asked my question that I would be asking experienced "breeders". I did get my answer, thanks to luvmypuppet. She seems very knowledgable of breeding Chi's, unlike yourself. You didn't answer my question and you just brought up a whole lot of other stuff that had nothing to do with my question. :roll: 

So yes, ozzysmom you started this whole argument and if you have run out of things to say about it, then maybe you should quit posting replys to me and let other "breeders" reply to my post. Nobody said you HAD to continue posting replys to me. Let it be. :x


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

I dont think Luvmypuppet is a breeder - so is she no longer qualified to offer you advice do you not like her advice anymore :roll: 

I AM A MODERATOR OF THE WHOLE FORUM ALONG WITH 3 OTHER LOVELY GIRLS WE ALL WORK VERY HARD AND I DO NOT DESERVE TO BE TREATED THIS WAY

and read the post properly I was not saying anything about the STANDARD of a chi been 6 pounds or less I was saying that ALOT of breeders would not breed a bitch that was just 4 POUNDS :shock: most people breed bitches that are about 4 and a half pounds (usually closer to 5) plus as there are less chance of C sections.


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

AK_crazygirl

Did you see that she doesn't even breed Chi's ? She is trying to tell me what to do and she doesn't even breed. It's hilarious, if you ask me.

ozzysmom......., did you ban AK_crazygirl because she posted in my thread????? Or was it because she doesn't like you? Or because she stated her opinion about you? What kind of Moderator are you anyway?????


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## luv4mygirls (Feb 20, 2005)

ak_crazygirl907 said:


> This same woman did this to me on one of my threads like I told you before jailergirl2001. She thinks she is god on this site. She didn't like my thread or my opinion, because it wasn't hers.



nope you did it to yourself on one of your threads and it wasn't just clare.... it was a LARGE MAJORITY of the community that disagreed with your breeding.....


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

I didnt ban AK - but I have a feeling both of you wont be here much longer - but hey its not me who ban people its the admin I suggest you contact them if you dont feel Im fit to be a moderator :wave:


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

Hey, at least she gave a knowledgable answer to my question. She seems to alot more than you do, hey, maybe you should give the moderator job to her so that people who ask questions can get the answer they are looking for. I don't care if you said anything about standards, if I would have said "My muffin was 8 pounds" you would have said...well she doesn't meet standards, why are you breeding her?

You never answered me, I asked if you were a Licensed Vet. My Vet says 4 pounds is the perfect size. So I do believe you are wrong miss moderator. :shock:


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

I do believe that I will contact the Admistrator ozzysmom. You are very unprofessional and rude.


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

No Im not a vet im a registered Nurse, but just because someone is a vet doesnt make them a good vet the same with if someone is a dctor doesnt mean they are a good doctor and you should take their advice as gospel if that was the case why would people have 2nd opinions , also not alot of vets have experience with toy breeds :wave:


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

oh and if luvmypuppet would like my job - feel free to take it im not so sure its worth all the hassle :lol:


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## luv4mygirls (Feb 20, 2005)

yep i'm stealin your job...


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

lol thanks I appreciate it


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

you are an RN and you have all this time to be on the computer????? So because you are an RN I should take your advise over my Vet's???? Ummmmm....I don't think so. I ma very happy with my Vet, he is very knowledgable of Chi breeding. THey are Doctors for Christ's Sake, they have an education and a license to practice Animal Medicine. 
Are you an RN at an animal hospital or a human hospital???? There is a HUGE difference there.


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

OMG you should really read peoples post you asked me if I was a vet , I said no Im a registered nurse ( meaning people nurse) why would I not have time to come on here been a RN ?, I work no more than normal people :shock: 37 and a half nour week but whats it too you :wave: its hardly your business how I spend my free time AND NO NOT ALL VETS ARE GOOD


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## luv4mygirls (Feb 20, 2005)

jailergirl2001 said:


> you are an RN and you have all this time to be on the computer????? So because you are an RN I should take your advise over my Vet's???? Ummmmm....I don't think so. I ma very happy with my Vet, he is very knowledgable of Chi breeding. THey are Doctors for Christ's Sake, they have an education and a license to practice Animal Medicine.
> Are you an RN at an animal hospital or a human hospital???? There is a HUGE difference there.



biggest difference i know of it takes more schooling to become a human nurse. and from what i've seen working in an animal hospital not every veerinarian should be one :shock: i've seen some stuff! 

and it's great that you are happy with your vet, at the practice were i worked there were a handful (small handfull) of dr.'s and i am very picky who i let examine my baby. talk about a difficult situation, try explaining that you want dr. so and so's advice to a dr you have to work with


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

I did not say ALL VETS were good. I said I was very happy with my vet, he is knowledgable. Maybe you should read the posts a little closer. :x


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## luv4mygirls (Feb 20, 2005)

jailergirl2001 said:


> I did not say ALL VETS were good. I said I was very happy with my vet, he is knowledgable. Maybe you should read the posts a little closer. :x


well this is what throws me:



> THey are Doctors for Christ's Sake, they have an education and a license to practice Animal Medicine


enlighten me as to waht you meant with that then... cause there is one vet who was at the practice i worked at and he asked ME for advice a few times, granted he was fresh out of school but still. according to that statemnt he's a doctor for christs sake they ahve a license to practice veterinary medicine and an education.... and he had to go through school and i knew more than he did it seems and i had no schooling whatsoever.


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

exactly luvmypuppet  Ive had that with quite a few junior doctors too :lol: 

Im glad your vet is good but like I said alot of EXPERIENCED breeders wouldnt breed a bitch that was just 4 pounds


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

ozzysmom....

yep, your right, they would. 4 pounds is the perfect size for a Chi.

luvmypuppet....

I meant "he's a doctor" not "they" it was a typo. I know that some vets are not good at what they do, and I would not take my Chi to anyone that I did not trust completly.

This has all gotten very stupid and out of hand, it was A SIMPLE QUESTION!!!! Nothing more, nothing less. :roll:


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

Furthermore ozzysmom.....

How do you get EXPERIENCED breeders. Doesn't every EXPERIENCED breeder have a FIRST TIME?????????? :shock:


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

Again :roll: ... Amen. :lol:


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

typo here too i meant no EXPERIENCED breeder would breed a bitch that was only 4 pounds :shock: yes you did take it way out of hand :wave:


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

No ma'am all I wanted was an answer to my question. You decided to make some smart ass comments and it went from there.
What's wrong with just answering my question and going on? I didn't ask for yur opinion, so until it is wanted please keep it to yourself. :bootyshake:


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

and you didn't answer my question AGAIN. :roll:


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

I didnt give you an opinion I asked you a question " shouldnt you of found this out before you bred your bitch ?" all im worried about is your baby, Im glad your here so you can get all the help you need :wave: 

i didnt say any smart ass comments and if youd like to put the comments you found smart ass here we can gladly discuss them as tyou have obviously misinterpreted what i said , better still feel free to PM your comments as Im sure people ar5e fed up with this as I am :roll:


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

Like I said about 3 pages ago please stop all this nonsense or I will have to close the thread and I dont want to as you need to get advice , please just leave all this rubbish behind us and Pm if you have problems with me ok ? I apologise if I came across as rude in anyway this was not my intention


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## KB (Apr 13, 2004)

WELL I am another MODERATOR................and everyone needs to STOP this nonsense. 

You have been disrespectful jailergirl to a moderator. Yes you should have known what a tie was before hand. I do think you were defensive to Ozzy's Mom. and STOP cussin on this board. 

We do not want any trouble here and we will take whatever action is necessary _if need be_. Cool your heels. I would never ever mouth off to a mod on a forum. As Ozzy's Mom said you have every right to notify admin if you are unhappy and PM's are a way to hash something out without disrupting an entire thread with trivial cat fights. 

If you cant handle the heat of a few simple questions then maybe your NOT ready to start this adventure. We promote proper care here and do not want to be a forum that does not advocate the very best in the breed care and standards. 

Thank you


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

Yeah, what Kemo's mama said! :lol:


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

Then why didn't Ozzy just PM her with the question in the first place? Or tell her opinion in a PM in the first place? Why couldn't she just answer her question or not answer it and anything else that she didn't ask go straight into a PM? Why did Ozzy let it get this far, her being a moderator? She should of just gone straight to PM'ing.


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

ak_crazygirl907 said:


> Then why didn't Ozzy just PM her with the question in the first place? Or tell her opinion in a PM in the first place? Why couldn't she just answer her question or not answer it and anything else that she didn't ask go straight into a PM? Why did Ozzy let it get this far, her being a moderator? She should of just gone straight to PM'ing.


Who had a vote and left you to dictate what she should have done or didnt do. She is the Mod. As an irresponsable breeder as yourself your comments are certainly not wanted by me. :bootyshake: Its people like you who give people like them the incentive to breed. Now, you want to take it to a PM <rolling up sleeves> :roll:


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## Anonymous (Feb 29, 2004)

I just don't understand why she let it go on this long? Why didn't she just stop it and PM her? She's sposed to be so much higher ranking in life than the rest of us right? I'm just asking simple questions like her, but now your jumping in my face? And now I see your threatening me too? That's just silly :lol: !


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

i dont make threats i have debates and speak my mind.


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## KB (Apr 13, 2004)

LOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Thank you janiebabies :wink:


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