# So Mad I Have to Vent - Kids Grabbing My Dog



## Jaclyn_M (Sep 5, 2012)

When I first got Ren I wanted to start socializing him right away. I found a local training/daycare facility that also ran playgroups on the weekends, so I started taking him to the small dog group each week. I also found a local Chihuahua Meetup group through Meetup.com that met monthly at the same location (they rented the room privately).

The facility recently closed, and I found another nearby place that has playgroups. Although their "small dog" group includes dogs up to 30 pounds, Ren has done very well there, and seems to enjoy running around and playing with dogs that are 2 or 3 times his size. But I still liked the idea of taking him to a chihuahua-specific group once a month, just to be around dogs more his size.

With the original facility closing, the Chihuahua Meetup group relocated to a different place (not the same place as our new play group), and their first meeting there was today. I am very upset about what happened and wanted to vent here.

Last month was our last meetup at the old location. To celebrate the holidays, some people had brought in treats for the dogs. The daughter of the organizer (maybe about 10) was handing out treats to dogs, and I heard her mother tell her, "Make sure to ask the owner before giving a dog a treat." Of course, a few minutes later I turned around and saw her giving Ren a treat without having asked me. Since he gets plenty of treats at home for training, I didn't want him getting any extras, and asked her not to give him any more.

This month, the organizer's daughter had another bag of treats, and again I heard the mother tell her to ask first before giving a dog a treat. Again I saw her giving Ren a treat without having asked me, and this time I was able to stop her before he got it.

A few minutes later, a woman arrived with two dogs and her two kids, a boy and a girl, about 8 or 9. Within a few minutes of arriving, I suddenly saw the kids chasing Ren around the room. Maybe "chase" isn't the right word, because it was a small room with not enough space to actually run, but they were clearly going after him and he was clearly trying to get away from them. I immediately stepped up to them and said, "Don't chase him, you're scaring him." They stopped.

A few minutes later the boy was standing near a group of dogs that had congregated to sniff each other, and before I knew what was happening, he went up behind Ren and grabbed him and picked him up. I immediately walked over and the boy put him down when he saw me coming, so I didn't say anything to him. Ren is normally very good being around other people and dogs, but he definitely does not like being grabbed or chased and gets very nervous in those situations.

I feel like such a wimp! I should have said something to the kid that time, but I am so non-confrontational. I don't know where the mother was while all this was going on - she seemed pretty oblivious to what her kids were doing. Maybe I should have looked for her and said something to her too?

A few minutes later, I noticed that Ren's body language showed that he was uncomfortable, so I took him outside for a few minutes to get him away from the crowd. After we came back he seemed to have gotten over it. I did make a comment to the organizer about these two kids but she just made a comment about, "Yeah, I've noticed that many shelters do not want to give chihuahuas to families with kids because of that kind of thing" and turned it into a discussion about adopting.

I don't know what to think. I didn't want to make a big deal at the meetup because nobody else seemed to have a problem with the way their dogs were being treated - then again, I didn't see anyone else's dogs being chased, or picked up without permission. (Although I do remember a few previous meetups where there were other kids there who were just picking up dogs without asking.) My husband said I should email the organizer and tell her that I have a problem with people's kids not being well-behaved and that I am considering not coming back. But since I've only been in the group for a few months, I'm not sure my opinion would carry much weight. But it wouldn't be too unreasonable to suggest that we have rules for how children behave in the group, is it?

On the other hand, I'm considering just not going back and not bothering to say anything. As I said, he does fine in the general small dog playgroup, despite being the smallest one in the room, and I've never had any issues with how he is treated there. So maybe he doesn't need to be in a chihuahua-specific group and I should just forget about it.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Let me guess you don't have kids :lol:


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## BlueJax (Jun 25, 2012)

Obviously the parents should have been monitoring their children better, but it does sound like the kids just wanted to play with Ren. Perhaps next time you could show them better ways of interacting with Ren such as kneeling on the ground and just petting him. I’m very non-confrontational as well, so I tend to avoid gatherings such as this, but when I do I assume that there are going to be situations like this when someone does something that you'd rather them not do. If it’s something like giving out treats, I usually let it slide, but if it’s chasing and rough-play that is making my dog nervous I will either try to speak up or remove my dog from the situation.


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## MMS (Aug 2, 2012)

KittyD said:


> Let me guess you don't have kids :lol:


Wow, condescending much?


Jaclyn, 
I would definitely talk to the director of the group and express your concerns. This is not so much an issue of the kids, as it is an issue of the parents not doing their job. This is suppose to be a puppy playgroup, not a kiddie free-for-all. If, when I was a child, I would act inappropriately in public in any way, my parents knew it -- you know, because they were actually watching me-- and I was immediately removed from the situation. MOST parents don't do this anymore. 
Whether your opinion actually "carries much weight" or not, I would still put it out there. Especially if you decide to officially leave the group.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

MMS said:


> Wow, condescending much?


Oh yes! ha ha smiley and all


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## Lindsayj (Apr 18, 2012)

I completely understand! It makes me very frustrated when children try to pick Chloe up. It's very scary! I don't trust anyone to pick her up whether they are a child or adult. If someone is holding her and she doesn't like it then she will try to squirm away and it's very dangerous!i think it is irrelevant if you have kids or not. People should teach their children how to properly interact with strange dogs. Especially when the parent is taking them to a dog meet up. It's really ridiculous. That is for the safety of both the child and dog. Personally I would privately tell the director and ask if some rules could be created for everyone. Children and adults both. 


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## pupluv168 (Mar 7, 2012)

ljwilson said:


> I completely understand! It makes me very frustrated when children try to pick Chloe up. It's very scary! I don't trust anyone to pick her up whether they are a child or adult. If someone is holding her and she doesn't like it then she will try to squirm away and it's very dangerous!i think it is irrelevant if you have kids or not. People should teach their children how to properly interact with strange dogs. Especially when the parent is taking them to a dog meet up. It's really ridiculous. That is for the safety of both the child and dog. Personally I would privately tell the director and ask if some rules could be created for everyone. Children and adults both.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


+1

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## 20887 (Mar 16, 2011)

Don't see why it would matter whether or not you had kids.. Either way, it is inappropriate for a child to pick up your dog without asking! It is simply polite to ask first. I was never allowed to pick up dogs or pet them without asking a parent's permission as a kid.


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## Evelyn (Oct 14, 2012)

KittyD said:


> Let me guess you don't have kids :lol:


Well I do and no way would my children have gotten away with doing what those children were doing. Now my kids are 44 and 40, the children today get away with too much, and I can say that as I drove a school bus for 20 years.


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## Evelyn (Oct 14, 2012)

I would talk to the director, unless you could really tell it didn't phase her what the children were doing, now days it is what ever the kids want to do is okay. I had that happen at a family gathering, when my Pug was a tiny puppy. I went and picked her up and said something to the children, not to pick her up and their mother got mad, so be it, it was my daughter's inlaws.


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## BellsMommy22 (Dec 23, 2012)

I think if I were you I would go back again, at least once more. If the kids were there, I would just politely tell them that I do not like strangers picking up or handling my dog without permission. If it continued I would speak to the director and the parents of the child. It's not okay to pick up a dog without permission. Some dogs get fearful of strangers grabbing them and could be provoked into biting. Or the kids may not know how to properly hold a dog and it could be dropped or injured. I think suggesting a rule that no one is to pick up, handle or feed a dog without the owners permission would be a good start.


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## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

This hits a little home for me :-(
I was in a similar situation with my chi Willy. I wanted to socialize him because our first dog Rosa (a yorkie/maltese) was not well socilaized and she barked alot at people which i didn't like) so I really wanted Willy socilaized so I took him places and to a family gathering, where there is not usually kids. My cousin came with his kids which I did not expect and I explained the rules of NO picking Willy up cuz he was so tiny. I watched like a hawk all day (which really made my day crappy cuz I felt "on alert" all day) but when we were leaving my cousins daughter just could not resist and picked him up....and dropped him. I won't go into the whole miserable story (most here know it as it is in posts here) but Willy is now a three legged chihuahua. 
I know it is my fear, but i would rather leave the group rather then take the risk that one accident happen cuz a kid tried to grab and possibly drop my chi


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## Moonfall (Nov 16, 2012)

People need to learn to ask anytime they get anywhere near a pet.

I get all kinds of awful things, my most recent atrocious encounter was a child who RAN at me screaming "HELLO BROWN DOG" at the top of his lungs. I was carrying Douglas in a store, not a pet store, definitely not inviting him to be handled.

I screeched equally loudly DO NOT TOUCH MY DOG and my dad did the same but the kid kept coming until the person he was with finally heard me yell "HE BITES" and called the child off.

It is very dangerous for kids to act that way and think it's okay. Douglas gives very clear body language that he wishes to not be touched, and he will bite if threatened, so we do not allow strangers to try and pet him. They can let him sniff their hand if they want to interact (he's usually good with that) but that is all because he is unpredictable with being touched.

I'm so sorry that happened to you.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Moonfall said:


> Douglas gives very clear body language that he wishes to not be touched, and he will bite if threatened, so we do not allow strangers to try and pet him. They can let him sniff their hand if they want to interact (he's usually good with that) but that is all because he is unpredictable with being touched



You may already know this, but it's not ok for your dog to try bite people or show aggression to people. You should be working on this with him, if he did bite a child or another person in most cases you WILL be held liable for that.
It's great that he shows body language beforehand and that would be a good cue for you to work him through those issues. However if he is unpredictable as you say, nobody should really be touching him, as it's asking for trouble.

Just my opinion of course.


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## Ricci and Ruby (Dec 16, 2012)

KittyD said:


> You may already know this, but it's not ok for your dog to try bite people or show aggression to people. You should be working on this with him, if he did bite a child or another person in most cases you WILL be held liable for that.
> It's great that he shows body language beforehand and that would be a good cue for you to work him through those issues. However if he is unpredictable as you say, nobody should really be touching him, as it's asking for trouble.
> 
> Just my opinion of course.


The OP clearly said they don't allow strangers to touch him.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Ricci and Ruby said:


> The OP clearly said they don't allow strangers to touch him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


She's allowing people near the dog and having the dog sniff their hands, that's asking for trouble (IMO) with a dog who is "unpredictable" that is all I meant by my statement.


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## Moonfall (Nov 16, 2012)

He's unpredictable if people touch him because there are certain places on his head (or above him) that seem to trigger him. He will sniff and lick hands like a total sweetheart though, it's just threatening gestures.

Letting him sniff others is the only way to socialize him. I will not allow people to touch him at all, just talk to him and sniff and if he gets distressed he's removed right away.

His behavior is definitely unacceptable and just one thing on a list a mile long of problems that I have corrected with him since rescuing him. I am actually considering a muzzle since the child incident so that he can see strangers and be safe because if someone came up and I didn't see them and they threatened him he might go for them. He's snapped before at hands, we don't know if he would put pressure or not. At home he knows to never ever put pressure on a person with his mouth, he loves to wrestle and he's sort of mouthy but he won't ever do anything but mouth...we don't know if that transfers to others or not.


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## KittyD (Apr 2, 2010)

Moonfall said:


> He's unpredictable if people touch him because there are certain places on his head (or above him) that seem to trigger him. He will sniff and lick hands like a total sweetheart though, it's just threatening gestures.
> 
> Letting him sniff others is the only way to socialize him. I will not allow people to touch him at all, just talk to him and sniff and if he gets distressed he's removed right away.
> 
> His behavior is definitely unacceptable and just one thing on a list a mile long of problems that I have corrected with him since rescuing him. I am actually considering a muzzle since the child incident so that he can see strangers and be safe because if someone came up and I didn't see them and they threatened him he might go for them. He's snapped before at hands, we don't know if he would put pressure or not. At home he knows to never ever put pressure on a person with his mouth, he loves to wrestle and he's sort of mouthy but he won't ever do anything but mouth...we don't know if that transfers to others or not.



Yes because he's a rescue I am sure you have much work to do, it's wonderful that you're taking the time with him.
I've been there with a dog like that, and it was hard. Sometimes you can work them through these things (I hope in your case because he is a rescue that it's fear based that's all he needs) and then sometimes you cannot, if it comes down to genetics and bad breeding.

Muzzles are a good idea around children from a liability standpoint but in the end it's more of a bandaid fix.


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## abrunk (Jul 23, 2012)

I feel the same way as you do. I don't like people that have never been around my dogs coming over and immediately trying to pick them up. Let my dog get to know you then you won't have to pick them up, they will be in your lap within 5 minutes kissing you lol. Children no matter what their age need to be taught how to behave with animals, be it a chi or a pit bull.


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## Moonfall (Nov 16, 2012)

A muzzle is definitely a bandaid but I am getting one already for vet visits, just to make it so that if he gets upset no one gets hurt. It might be good on my part to find people who scare him to intro him to while muzzled so it's safe.

I think this dog was mistreated. He shows signs of fear likely related to trauma when around men of a certain age and appearance. He is much kinder with women. Children are iffy, I never know what to think of what he'll do, but they scare me so much I can't be around them. To some degree they seem to frighten him as well though. 

From what we know of him and how he acts I believe that he belonged to a woman, was probably very loved. The man of the house, either the boyfriend or husband, did not like this dog and was mean to him.

One day the man drove him somewhere and dumped him, claiming the dog ran away or 
was hit by a car. Douglas then wandered an unknown amount of time (he was skinny so it was a little while) before being picked up and brought to the shelter I adopted him from. 

His behavior is not his fault and I want to help him, he is not a bad dog, he tries to always please me, but some things trigger him and it's like he forgets everyone and everything he has learned. He has a ways to go yet. 

I also plan on enrolling in obedience training and eventually agility training so that he can meet dog people and learn how to focus in a distracting environment. I have worked with trouble animals before and I think he can be helped. He is NOT a bad dog though, not at all, he doesn't mean to be that way.


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## mistymornings18 (Jan 3, 2013)

I would say something even if you don't plan on going back though the director doesn't sound like she would care since she doesn't monitor her own child. 
One of these days they are going to injure one of those chihuahuas.
It may not be your chihuahua, but one of them will be hurt one day.


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## ~Lucky Chi Mama~ (Jan 3, 2013)

I would say something to the director and ask what the "rules" of the group are to get you on the topic. I would also say something to the parent of the children. If it was my kids I would want to know. Perhaps something about how you want your pup to be part of the group to socialize, but he's new to it and for the safety of everyone you really hope the kids won't try to pick him up. I watch my kids and teach them about dogs but kids are kids too. At least if the parent is alerted and still does nothing then you can make a decsion not to return. 

I have two kids ages 4 and 6 and I teach them NOT to go up to strange dogs without asking the owner first if it's okay. You just never know. Even the most even tempered dog can be freaked out by the quick movement of children if they are not used to it.


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## Quill (Nov 20, 2012)

One of the reasons my Edie is so fearful is because I didn't stand up to people when I thought I should. When she was very little I used to take her out in her carrier, and people would reach over her head without asking. I was too shy to stop them. It's one of the greatest regrets in my life, actually. 

You are responsible for the welfare of your dog, and not for making those kids happy. Ren can't protect himself except in ways that could end badly, so it's your job to do it, right? If you think he's unhappy, make it stop, even if you look overprotective and mean in the process. Because take it from me, feeling like you compromised your dog's wellbeing for the sake of your own dislike of confrontation is a horrible, horrible thing.


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## whipandchi (Aug 7, 2009)

> You are responsible for the welfare of your dog, and not for making those kids happy. Ren can't protect himself except in ways that could end badly, so it's your job to do it, right? If you think he's unhappy, make it stop, even if you look overprotective and mean in the process.


Exactly - I go through all the time with my little old guy that came from a hoarder. He is scared of everyone and everything. He has come a long way since he came to us 4 years ago but he still does not want strangers touching him. I don't want him to be put in the position of having to feel he needs to protect himself so I tell people they are not to touch him. And children are not allowed anywhere near him, even gentle children with good dog skills. It's not worth either of them being scared by the other. He has excellent bite inhibition but who knows what would happen if he was pushed past his comfort zone. I try to be polite to people but when it comes down to it, my little guys safety and well being are much more important than the feelings of a stranger. 

If I were in your place I would definitely say something to the director and the parents of the child. You may not get the response you are hoping for but you will have the satisfaction of having had your say and protecting your little one. I am quite non confrontational as well but my little guy is more important to me than what strangers think of me.


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## prettylola (Nov 13, 2012)

I do not think that you are wrong for thinking there needs to be rules. I know that I would want this as well if I were there. Those kids need to learn how to act around Chis.


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## Trouble's Mom (Jan 7, 2013)

I totally know where you are coming from. Trouble is a therapy dog but she has her limits with children. I can't tell you the number of times I have seen kids try to pick her up or come running at her squealing with delight. All of these things frighten her. I am also not confrontational and I have found that putting my hand out in front of my dog to stop the action that is about to occur usually helps. I then show them the proper way to approach any dog and how to pet a dog so they are not scared. I do this in a very friendly manner and if a child still doesn't listen then I have to tell them that Trouble doesn't like that. It really stinks, but there are a lot of people out there who don't know enough to ask if they can pet your dog or give them a treat. I try not to get upset because it is something us "dog people" are more aware of. And then of course you have kids who know their manners around dogs but when they see one that small, they just lose their control and want to touch the dog. I try to be as understanding as I can and at the same time protect my dog. It's a balancing act, but it works really well especially when we do therapy with children's groups.


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