# Opinions on Science Diet Hill's Small & Toy Breed Kibble



## proudpeyotemama

Hello there everyone! I currently have Ote on Science Diet Hill's Small & Toy Breed Formula Kibble. It was recommended by my veterinarian when I first got Ote. Since being on here for a while, I am now wondering if this is suitable nutrition for my girl. She is not too thin, and she is very healthy, I just want to make sure that she is getting all the nutrition that she needs. I know a lot of you on here are all for raw diets, and if that is your suggestion to me, could you give me tips on how to keep the price reasonable? I would love for her to be on a 100% raw diet, but right now I don't think that's an option. Anyone's tips/suggestions would be great! I would also love to hear opinions about Science Diet Hill's Small & Toy Breed Formula Kibble!! 

Also, do you guys give your pups a multi-vitamin?


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## LostLakeLua

I don't mean to alarm you, but I gotta be honest and say that Science Diet is actually one of the worst brands out there. =( It's loaded with grains and other things that are difficult for a dog to digest, and long-term, can cause so many deficiencies and health issues caused by a lack of nutrients. The thing to remember, is that veterinarians get VERY limited training when it comes to nutrition. AND their schools are funded BY the companies they're promoting... so, they are often ill-informed which is why I encourage anyone to do their own research. You can go to dogfoodchat.com to read through the forums there, they have plenty of reviews and suggestions. Dogfoodanalysis.com and dogfoodadvisor.com are wonderful sites to find good quality foods. I can tell you, one of the most cost-effective ones is Taste of The Wild. It's only $11 here for a 5lb bag; and they now have puppy formulas too.

ETA: Oh and forgot to add, I don't give mine a multivitamin. Mine eat prey model raw so it's everything they need and nothing they don't. The only time a multivitamin would be a good idea; is if the current diet wasn't balanced properly. But if that were the case, I'd just say spend the money on a better food.. since it'll probably cost less than it would to buy a low quality kibble and vitamins lol.


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## Christabelle

Kat - Do you feed your fosters RAW as well ?


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## MiniGrace

I agree - Science Diet doesn't get a very high rating from either one of these websites but I do not remember what exactly the rating is. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable on dog foods but I still was surprised that many foods I thought were good were not. I suggest you do some reading - it is very surprising! But I think the research is only part of knowing if a food is high quality. If it gives your dogs big poos instead of small neat ones, something in there isn't digestible enough.

There are a lot of good quality kibbles out there if you want to stick with kibble and when I was still feeding kibble, I started adding water at the suggestion of many on this website who said it is better for their kidneys. I use Ziwipeak now but I still add water because it slows Charlie down. Other wise he eats his food really fast.

By the way, your Ote is adorable and reminds me of Charlie, although Charlie is much bigger.


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## jesuschick

Hill's Science Diet Adult Dry Dog Food | Review and Rating

It receives 2.5 stars out of 5.


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## AussieLass

Can't type my opinion here, I'll be evicted.

Research, research, research (by starting with those 2 links for example) - personal opinions are all well & good (especially from incentive paid Vets whom we're supposed to trust) but until you actually review the analysis with your own eyes and mull it over, it's all a moot point really.


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## proudpeyotemama

KittynKahlua said:


> I don't mean to alarm you, but I gotta be honest and say that Science Diet is actually one of the worst brands out there. =( It's loaded with grains and other things that are difficult for a dog to digest, and long-term, can cause so many deficiencies and health issues caused by a lack of nutrients. The thing to remember, is that veterinarians get VERY limited training when it comes to nutrition. AND their schools are funded BY the companies they're promoting... so, they are often ill-informed which is why I encourage anyone to do their own research. You can go to dogfoodchat.com to read through the forums there, they have plenty of reviews and suggestions. Dogfoodanalysis.com and dogfoodadvisor.com are wonderful sites to find good quality foods. I can tell you, one of the most cost-effective ones is Taste of The Wild. It's only $11 here for a 5lb bag; and they now have puppy formulas too.
> 
> ETA: Oh and forgot to add, I don't give mine a multivitamin. Mine eat prey model raw so it's everything they need and nothing they don't. The only time a multivitamin would be a good idea; is if the current diet wasn't balanced properly. But if that were the case, I'd just say spend the money on a better food.. since it'll probably cost less than it would to buy a low quality kibble and vitamins lol.


I'm going to check out Taste of the Wild! Thank you so much for this helpful information. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my question in such detail.


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## proudpeyotemama

MiniGrace said:


> I agree - Science Diet doesn't get a very high rating from either one of these websites but I do not remember what exactly the rating is. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable on dog foods but I still was surprised that many foods I thought were good were not. I suggest you do some reading - it is very surprising! But I think the research is only part of knowing if a food is high quality. If it gives your dogs big poos instead of small neat ones, something in there isn't digestible enough.
> 
> There are a lot of good quality kibbles out there if you want to stick with kibble and when I was still feeding kibble, I started adding water at the suggestion of many on this website who said it is better for their kidneys. I use Ziwipeak now but I still add water because it slows Charlie down. Other wise he eats his food really fast.
> 
> By the way, your Ote is adorable and reminds me of Charlie, although Charlie is much bigger.


I'm definitely going to start big-time researching. I want to get her off of Science Diet now that I see how bad it is. I was too trusting in my veterinarian's words, I suppose. They are all for Science Diet over at their office. I normally add water or a bit of chicken broth because I heard that about helping the kidneys before. And because Ote definitely likes it a lot more with than without! LOL. Thank you so much! I love her. Both of yours are so cute as well!


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## ~LS~

Science Diet is garbage, full of fillers you dog does not need.
If you want a great dry food try Acana Pacifica. But feed less since it is high 
in protein. As for supplements, great things to add are Glucosamine, Chondroitin
and Fish Oil. With that your pups will have fabulous breath, skin, fur and joints!


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## ~LS~

AussieLass said:


> Can't type my opinion here, I'll be evicted.
> 
> Research, research, research (by starting with those 2 links for example) - personal opinions are all well & good (especially from incentive paid Vets whom we're supposed to trust) but until you actually review the analysis with your own eyes and mull it over, it's all a moot point really.



Oh now I'm dying to hear your opinion, lol.  Please do tell.


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## pigeonsheep

Taste of the wild was not liked by Dexter. He ate a couple of kibbles then didn't touch it after that. Science diet is horrible...thank god dex has never touched that carp :lol: dex is on natural balance potato and duck formula and loves it! The prices are tiny so he doesn't swallow it whole like he did with orijen a couple yrs ago. As for multivitamin he was never on it up until he had vitamin deficiency by the vets blood test result. I researched that even out of the best food brands out there there is never enough vitamins for a pups essential needs. I got my multivitamin from konas chips site and mix it with organic yogurt since its a very strong smell. I do half of a half of a pill every other night


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## pigeonsheep

Omg autocorrect....i meant tiny pieces not prices


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## proudpeyotemama

~LS~ said:


> Oh now I'm dying to hear your opinion, lol.  Please do tell.


Thank you for the dog food suggestion! I'm so glad that everyone is giving their opinions on food. Without this forum, I don't know what I'd do!!! 

Also, I am dying to know AussieLass' opinion as well!!! LOL


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## proudpeyotemama

pigeonsheep said:


> Taste of the wild was not liked by Dexter. He ate a couple of kibbles then didn't touch it after that. Science diet is horrible...thank god dex has never touched that carp :lol: dex is on natural balance potato and duck formula and loves it! The prices are tiny so he doesn't swallow it whole like he did with orijen a couple yrs ago. As for multivitamin he was never on it up until he had vitamin deficiency by the vets blood test result. I researched that even out of the best food brands out there there is never enough vitamins for a pups essential needs. I got my multivitamin from konas chips site and mix it with organic yogurt since its a very strong smell. I do half of a half of a pill every other night


Natural Balance - I know I've seen that in my pet store!! All the other suggestions before, I hadn't heard of. Thought I was looking in all the wrong places for dog food! LOL. Why Potato & Duck vs. other formulas?


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## AussieLass

TeeHeeHee ~LS~, if I go getting evicted I won't be able to read your lovely stories, view your beautiful pics and be inspired by the ever incredible "Enduro Chi", now will I?

What people fail to understand about Vet surgeries & dog food companies is they pay incentives. Some resellers even enjoy fully paid for o/seas holidays due to the amount of toxic muck they push on to unsuspecting consumers. Ditto incentives/competitions paid to the large pet stores - all are quite happy to prostitute their knowledge & beliefs for the sake of $'s, recognition etc at the expense of helpless kidneys, brains (as in the case of Origen killing cats after irradiation), livers et al. Then, of course, the Vets make more money with the number of organ failures, allergies etc streaming through their doors - they've got it made, a product that makes money for them twice ... once at point of sale & again on illness.

This is also the case with people Doctors prescribing certain drugs for manufacturer incentives - the entire situation is beyond disgusting and people are just way too naive for their own darn good.


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## proudpeyotemama

AussieLass said:


> TeeHeeHee ~LS~, if I go getting evicted I won't be able to read your lovely stories, view your beautiful pics and be inspired by the ever incredible "Enduro Chi", now will I?
> 
> What people fail to understand about Vet surgeries & dog food companies is they pay incentives. Some resellers even enjoy fully paid for o/seas holidays due to the amount of toxic muck they push on to unsuspecting consumers. Ditto incentives/competitions paid to the large pet stores - all are quite happy to prostitute their knowledge & beliefs for the sake of $'s, recognition etc at the expense of helpless kidneys, brains (as in the case of Origen killing cats after irradiation), livers et al. Then, of course, the Vets make more money with the number of organ failures, allergies etc streaming through their doors - they've got it made, a product that makes money for them twice ... once at point of sale & again on illness.
> 
> This is also the case with people Doctors prescribing certain drugs for manufacturer incentives - the entire situation is beyond disgusting and people are just way too naive for their own darn good.


Wow, that is absolute obscene! I guess I was one of the naive ones. Gosh. And I thought I could trust a veterinarian's opinion on food. Thank you ladies so much! And thank you for sharing your opinion! I really needed a helping hand with getting my pup on the right track with food and nutrition.


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## Chi Nation

If you cant feed a raw diet, look for some of the holistic brand kibbles. Innova EVO, Canidae, Wilderness, Solid Gold, Orijin, Eagle Pack, and Holistic Select are a few that can probably be found at pet stores.


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## jesuschick

I'd strive for a 5 star food. Move to a 4 if you have to. I would not feed anything lower than a 4 star food. Just not good quality and with our little ones, EVERY bite counts!!


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## Mel's chi's

I have to cherp in here...I posted last week on anxiety and diarrhea and when I talked to the local vet she told me how bad my raw diet was...and she was selling Hills Science Diet!!!! You do not even want to know how that went over with me--lol--let's just say close to postal! She was saying how she had all these CECs on dog food nutrition ( well let me just say, I was with one of the top pharmaceutical companies in the US for more than a decade, and I know how these continuing education credits work--- the pharmaceutical companies/dog food companies pay to have the speaker come--sponsorship it is called--and it is more or less an infomercial for said company) 
Oh dear, I'm on a rant...better stop before I get in trouble 
You get my drift...
I have no patience for an ignorant Dr or Vet in this case...

Haha, I almost didn't read this thread since I feed raw ( and have been for 13 years)!


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## proudpeyotemama

Mel's chi's said:


> I have to cherp in here...I posted last week on anxiety and diarrhea and when I talked to the local vet she told me how bad my raw diet was...and she was selling Hills Science Diet!!!! You do not even want to know how that went over with me--lol--let's just say close to postal! She was saying how she had all these CECs on dog food nutrition ( well let me just say, I was with one of the top pharmaceutical companies in the US for more than a decade, and I know how these continuing education credits work--- the pharmaceutical companies/dog food companies pay to have the speaker come--sponsorship it is called--and it is more or less an infomercial for said company)
> Oh dear, I'm on a rant...better stop before I get in trouble
> You get my drift...
> I have no patience for an ignorant Dr or Vet in this case...
> 
> Haha, I almost didn't read this thread since I feed raw ( and have been for 13 years)!


Oh my gosh! I can't believe that the veterinarians have been "brain washed" in a way to sell out the sponsored food. No wonder there are Science Diet posters all over those places! LOL. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has had the dog kibble suggested over other diets/food options. You have a ton of experience with raw diet! Do you order from a company? After hearing about all the cons to kibble, I'm thinking about making the "dog budget" a little bit higher and switching to raw at least 4/7 days of the week. I need tips though, LOL!


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## Maia's Mom

I had my little one on Royal Canin Chihuahua 30 and then I had to switch her to Blue Buffalo Freedom which is a grain free food. I wanted to get her on a healthier food because she was having stool problems. Once I switched, the problems were gone. Now all I give her is grain free.....


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## Mel's chi's

Best tip is buy in bulk and freeze for economic reasons. Sometimes your butcher will give you a deal for buying ground meats in bulk pre packaged and you can also check your local warehouse stores ( Costco, SAMs etc..) for bulk buying. Chicken necks are an economical way to get the bones in. I figure that even though I am not feeding prime rib or the best organic chicken or whatever meat, they are getting human grade pure meat, no fillers and that is way better than any pre made anything. It is actually cheaper for me too than buying pre made ( but I have gotten it down to a science on finding the places around me to buy the best deals). 
I am also into convenience. I work full time ( now own my own business) have a family and 5 dogs, a house to care for etc....so I am busy all the time! I have had to make certain decisions in the raw feeding to suit my lifestyle. This is one reason I use ground meats...even grind my own chicken necks. I don't have time to fool with keeping all the dogs separated and on their towels for 2x day feedings... If I did, I probably wouldn't go the total ground route. But so they still can eat the best foods, I do. They have beautiful teeth in spite of loosing the bone chewing bit...they get chews during the day at work that take care of that need. Even if they ate the pre made raw, they would not be getting the whole bones, so I feel I'm breaking even in that department--lol! 
Good luck finding the right way for you and your lifestyle. Just seaking out the knowledge shows that you will find the right way to suit you. And , you might find it takes several try's before you get where you want to be ( and what works best for your dogs)--no worries, with love, patience and knowledge you will be fine 
And I would be happy to help you out in any way I can, as I know others here will too!


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## Wicked Pixie

I have found the raw diet to work out less expensive than good quality kibble. You can find lots of reduced meats in the supermarket and put them in your freezer for later. That's the only downside, our freezer is now full of dog food and there's hardly any room for ours! I found 500g of fresh chicken livers yesterday for only 24p! I go to all the different supermarkets and check out the reduced sections, often there is a separate one for fresh meat, at least in the UK. I'm used to looking in the veg section for things for the guinea pigs, so now most of my trolley gets filled with reduced items for the animals.


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## AussieLass

I really don't understand how people get themeslves in such a confused knot over raw. It's as simple as 80% raw meat, 10% purifying organs (kidneys/liver) and 10% bones they can chew up & swallow. To give additional calcium supplements etc is foolhardy in my opinion, way too dangerous.

Feeding raw is as easy as throwing roughly cut chunks of meat into a bowl i.e. Mon - Lamb, Tues - Beef, Wed - Chicken, Thurs - Pork*, Fri - fish, Sat - Venison and Sun - Lamb or whatever, with the bones & organs interspersed t/out the week. 

*Personally, I will NEVER feed raw Pork, too many people have died over the years from eating undercooked Pork, problems with it in smallgoods etc.

I also feed ZiwiPeak and will be alternating that with K9 Natural. Once a week I give an egg yolk and a drizzle of coconut oil. The only other thing I'm currently sourcing is Ester-C which the American Veterinary Assoc. have finally acknowledged what people have been saying for decades about its properties, after their own rigorous testing.

I insist with a raw diet in this home, due to the risk of parasites (hydatid in particular which is something every Aussie farmer and kid from the 50/60's is conscious of) being wormed religiously for hydatid, as well as family members on a very regular basis.Tapeworms and hydatid disease | Better Health Channel

Oh, and that lovely fresh top-shelf fish we buy for people, yes, even in totally civilised Western countries - watch Discovery Channel to see worms crawling through the flesh visible to the human eye they're so big - my 12yo son saw that documentary and vowed he'd never to eat fish again, and he hasn't, bless him 

In closing, I have a friend who is a 5 Star Austrian Trained Chef who worms himself very, very regularly due to his line of work and knowing only too well what he comes in contact with, so only a fool would imagine what we eat is all squeaky clean, 'coz it ain't!


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## Chi Nation

proudpeyotemama said:


> After hearing about all the cons to kibble, I'm thinking about making the "dog budget" a little bit higher and switching to raw at least 4/7 days of the week. I need tips though, LOL!


AMEN!! 
I use to feed Innova EVO but after i heard about the hostile takeover that PG did on the company i quickly switched to raw and i havent looked back. I had to up the budget a bit but it is well worth it, and i know my dogs are getting the BEST nutrition possible ... and that makes every penny well spent. :thumbright:


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## proudpeyotemama

EastGreenChihuahuas said:


> AMEN!!
> I use to feed Innova EVO but after i heard about the hostile takeover that PG did on the company i quickly switched to raw and i havent looked back. I had to up the budget a bit but it is well worth it, and i know my dogs are getting the BEST nutrition possible ... and that makes every penny well spent. :thumbright:


Do you buy from the grocery store or an online supplier? I'm definitely going to switch to a different kibble for the days of the week that I'm not feeding raw. I'm going to have to take a month or two to transition her over, so her tummy doesn't get upset from all these changes! I'm looking into the brands of dog kibble that you suggested as well. Thank you!


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## ~LS~

Oh how much I love threads like this! Awesome advice here. :thumbright:
I'm happy you weren't too shy to ask Aly, so many other readers will benefit from this info as well.

As for raw, you can find tons of additional info in the raw section, it really does
come down to being cheap and easy once you get the hang of buying, portioning, freezing. 

My three are all raw fed, but our rescues are fed Acana Pacifica because most
folks still prefer the convenience of kibble, therefore I feed them the best imo
kibble and send them off to their new homes with it too so the new families
follow in my footsteps. I do educate about raw though, and on occasion convert
them, lol.


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## LostLakeLua

Wow I'm late at answering haha but no, I don't feed raw to my fosters. They all get Taste of The Wild. It gives me an opportunity to at least point out to them WHY I choose the food. Nobody gets a dog from me without a brief nutrition lesson, haha...


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## Chi Nation

proudpeyotemama said:


> Do you buy from the grocery store or an online supplier? I'm definitely going to switch to a different kibble for the days of the week that I'm not feeding raw. I'm going to have to take a month or two to transition her over, so her tummy doesn't get upset from all these changes! I'm looking into the brands of dog kibble that you suggested as well. Thank you!


No prob! 
I get it from the store but have been looking into the ZP online. The closest place to me in OH is 2 hrs away so i would have to order it. When ever they hear the baggies coming out of the refrigerator, all i hear behind me are their feet scurrying across the floor :foxes251: they run so fast sometimes they slide right past the kitchen door :foxes251: I really need to get some area rugs for the floors!! 
They get so excited when meal time comes and i have the wonderful members of CP to thank for that :dance:


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## pigeonsheep

proudpeyotemama said:


> Natural Balance - I know I've seen that in my pet store!! All the other suggestions before, I hadn't heard of. Thought I was looking in all the wrong places for dog food! LOL. Why Potato & Duck vs. other formulas?


lol dex loves duck and potatoes  and its grain free!

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/chihuahua-pictures/66420-finally-found-dog-food-dexter-likes.html


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## LostLakeLua

^I like the new Natural Balance Alpha formulas. We had a coupon so we fed that for a few weeks to our fosters and they all did great on it. Didn't see any difference between that and TOTW; but I'm talking results, not ingredients. I still haven't found reviews on it yet as it's newer but seems like decent stuff.


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## TinyTails

If not raw I would also suggest Acana as my first choice for kibble followed by Taste of the Wild  Of course raw is best but not everyone can do it - and premade raw is pretty pricey. My pups love The Honest Kitchen which is another great. We have tried Thrive, Embark, Keen and Preference. My 2 chi's prefer THK over any other food. One of mine has a lot of food allergies and for a while we tried Natural Balance duck and potato followed by the venison and potato but they got bored very fast and it was too much potato not enough meat (only 21% protein) "Potatoes, Duck Meal, Duck, Canola Oil (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Potato Protein, Potato Fiber" <--- that's a lot of potato. It was the same with the venison. But it's definitely a good food to determine allergies  Pigeonsheep if Dexter loves duck some other good duck formulas - if he ever gets bored of the NB  are Blue Buffalo, Acana, Fromm, Nature's Variety Instict and TOTW wetlands.


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## TinyTails

Btw has anyone tried Back to Basics? I'm currently adding the turkey formula into the morning meal mix as my allergic pups is getting bored with the NV LID turkey. They also have a duck forumula and a pork formula (i don't think i'd feed the pork)
Turkey Giblets (Turkey Livers and Turkey Hearts), Turkey Meal, Turkey, Chicken Meal, Tapioca, Pea Protein, Poultry Fat (Turkey & Chicken, Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Dried Whole Egg, Whole Flaxseed, Menhaden Fish Oil, Natural Chicken Flavor, Peas, Sunflower Oil, Salt, L-Carnitine, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Choline Chloride, Biotin, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid.

It's 38 percent protein - do you think that's super high for a chihuahua?


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## pigeonsheep

Hey tinytails thank u for the suggestions but i have tried almost every hollisti. Brand out there for him lol. Including totw, natures variety, orijen which is similar to acana, blue buffalo, wellness, merricks, raw, the honest kitchen...and so on lol. He hated everything except a tiny bit of thk and orijen puppy. Personally i thought the orijen was too big of kibbles, he kept swallowing them whole instead of munching on them. I'm so glad he even eats this natural balance stuff


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## TinyTails

Yeah the best food is the food they are willing to eat


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## pigeonsheep

Sure is! :lol: I forgot to add I tried royal canin in which he was on when I got him and also went to ziwipeak but he absolutely hated it as well as I did with the smell lol


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## ernestoc

i changed from science diet to nutra gold $3 difference and muuuch better


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## missydawn

Haven't heard any opinions on pro-plan


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## lulu'smom

missydawn said:


> Haven't heard any opinions on pro-plan


You can go to dogfoodadvisor.com and it will review any dog food and give an unbiased opinion as so the quality based on 1 star to 5 star.


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## missydawn

I just went to this web site,it was fascinating to seethe food you thought were top quality and the ones that was not!!!!thank you for telling me about this!!


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## missydawn

Still can't get over this ! Has to tell my husband all about it!!I thought pro plan and hills dietDD was top quality!! I was wrong!!


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## lulu'smom

missydawn said:


> Still can't get over this ! Has to tell my husband all about it!!I thought pro plan and hills dietDD was top quality!! I was wrong!!


I knew you would feel that way when you saw for yourself. I learned all of this when I joined this forum in January. I fed Lulu Science Diet for the first 3 1/2 yrs of her life and thought I was feeding her the best food out there. This is because people believe vets when they endorse it--I did. Many vets carry it in their office. Knowing what I know now I am appalled at these vets that IMO should know better.


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## missydawn

My dachshund is also on the hills DD venison and potatoes. She's actually been allergy tested. And as far as food,she's allergic to rice,peas and barley. Not to mention everything outside. Any way as far as the food,that's why she's getting this. I'm going to check out the ingredients in the blue buffalo. She takes allergy shots every 3weeks.


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## ernestoc

everyone has been alot of help thanks for following up on the thread

please help me on this one let me know what you think

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/chi...chihuahua-wanting-get-female.html#post1014744


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