# Wire coated Chi's?!



## Brodysmom

So a new member here bought a purebred Chi and it appears to be a wirecoat. Assuming that this Chi is truly purebred and not crossed with something else, do you guys think this could be a wirecoat mutation?

Here's the thread with the pictures of Sophie...

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?t=38489

Breeder insists that she is a purebred long coated chihuahua. But she sure looks like a wire coat to me. I am wondering if this is a natural mutation? What do you guys think?

Do you think in the future we could have short coats, long coats, and WIRE coats in our breed???

Brodysmom


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## SillySally

Acording to AKC standard there is SC and LC and no Wire coat that I have ever heard of.


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## rcj1095

I do not believe that chi is a purebred. What are the parent's? I must have missed it. Anything is possible. Can that happen over time?


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## Brodysmom

No, there is no wirecoat in the Chi standard. It would be a mutation from a long coat. It would be a LONG road for AKC recognition of a third coat type. Maybe even impossible. But breeders do watch for mutations and when one occurs, a group of dedicated people can get together and try to replicate it.

For example, in cats, a hairless kitten is born to two regular long coat parents. The breeder keeps the kitten and breeds it to a sibling or back to a parent, hoping that the gene will reproduce itself. In the litter they get two hairless and two regular coats. They keep the gene pool very small and inbred but eventually they are throwing more hairless than regulars. Over time, they can outcross for genetic diversity, and eventually they have a "breed type" which breeds true.

Very interesting! Was just wondering if others thought this little Sophie might actually be a wire coat mutation. Obviously, it would be nice to see pictures of parents and DNA, etc. 

Brodysmom


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## Jessica

Hmm. I am not sure... they would be very cute though!! Compared to other mixes... this chi puppy seems to have the more "apple dome" head versus the mixes who take on the longer snouts. But genetics can be a funny thing. However I think the yorkie/chi mixes give off that "wire hair" look. Even though yorkies don't seem to have "wire hair" looking fur, I think that somehow the mix of the two must produce that look. These pics are just from google images. Who knows if this breeder is telling the truth, a lot of people mislabel puppies just to make more money. Whether the breeder is or isn't telling the truth it's still kinda shady she never showed Sophie's mom a pic of the father! 

These are Yorkie and Chihuahua mixes. From google images.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TP6lfw_SfOc/SDInQD45_fI/AAAAAAAAADY/eK5meNV0UF8/s400/Teddy.JPG

http://cdn-www.dailypuppy.com/media/dogs/anonymous/lulu_chiyorkie11.jpg_w450.jpg

Except this mix reminds me of Sophie! 
http://img.ziply.com/img/us/image/640m-480m/81939.jpg

Next... here's Chihuahua and Brussels Griffon mixes. All from google images again.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images17/ChusselDolly1Year.JPG

http://www.puppymillrescue.org/September2006/Taz11.jpg

http://www.pupcity.com/images/adpics/06282203744502_1.jpg

Here is a Chihuahua and Wire haired terrier mix, again from google images.

http://www.canberrapoochrescue.org.au/photos/2008/Mickeyf.jpg


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## rcj1095

You definitely are more learned on this subject than I am. I have heard of this happening but wasn't sure. Did that breeder do DNA and show her the parents? I think anything is possible. Her baby isn't papered, huh? I would be so curious to know the details of that? She's so cute but definitely not all chihuahua, in my limited knowledge and opinion.


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## SillySally

The only way to know is DNA and I do believe with her having a wire coat that the genetics would show the true canine species she is from. But is it worth it to the owner when she bought her as a pet only with no papers? Did the owner see the actual parents?


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## Brodysmom

I'm sure that the original poster does not care at all if she is purebred or not. Even though she was represented to be by the breeder. (Who could be a nutcase for all we know). 

I was just wondering that IF she was the product of two purebred Chi's, then she could actually be a naturally occurring mutation. And if so, could that be replicated? If you look at breeds that have several coat types and research into the development of the breeds, often they were crossed with other breeds in order to get the coat type they wanted. But sometimes a natural mutation occurred and this was bred from.

I just find it very interesting.

After seeing the pictures that Jessica posted from google, I tend to think that Sophie is a mix. But wouldn't that be something IF she was a naturally occurring wirecoat???

Brodysmom


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## Kristin

I really doubt that breeder knows what she's talking about. Sophie can not be a pure-bred chihuahua all the way down the line. I have never seen a pure-bred chihuahua have wire hair before. She has to a mix with something. I think her mommy should do the DNA test and find out what the deal is. Then there won't be any disputing it. It's in her genes.

Edit: I just had to add that Sophie is soooo cute! I absolutely love her wire hair


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## Kioana

with out her seeing both parents i don't belive her and think the chi is a mix. why would she send the photo of ONLY the mom, if this was a stud breeding then she'd have a photo of the stud and the contact info of the stud. so it's a mix


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## katsrevenge

Mix or not, it's a cute dog.

And, all differences in dogs resulted SOMEHOW.  Who knows, 20-30 years from now there may be a third chi accepted coat. Or, it could end up like the merle, and be banned in some places, OK in others and iffy in still more standards.


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## omgashley

LOL, from behind Sophie looks like an old man.  The breeder sent me a picture of her mom: http://i40.tinypic.com/30rw6y1.jpg

She didn't send a picture of the dad. So I'm guessing the dad is where the mix came from.. but I'm not sure. She swears up and down Sophie is purebred.


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## Brodysmom

I think Sophie is adorable! And her mom is definitely a Chi! And beautiful too! Interesting that she won't send a picture of the dad?! Anyhoo..... Sophie is wonderful and I can't wait to watch her grow up. Be sure and post lots of pictures of her. She has a lot of admirers here!

Brodysmom


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## omgashley

Ha ha, my little "mutated" baby. I will definitely keep posting pics.. matter of fact I just charged my camera battery so hopefully I can get some recent ones up soon! 

Edit: Here's another picture I found where you can see her fur really well. : http://i40.tinypic.com/6okahx.jpg


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## Rosiesmum

omgashley said:


> The breeder sent me a picture of her momShe didn't send a picture of the dad. So I'm guessing the dad is where the mix came from.. but I'm not sure. She swears up and down Sophie is purebred.



Did you ever actually see Sophie with her mum, or was she shipped to you?
If you never saw them together, it's just as likely she wasn't the mum and that might be where the cross came in
Just a thought, you may of course have seen her on collection 

Barbara x


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## Gisele

Sophie is soooo cute, he little face is just precious. I understand what Brodysmom is saying, Sophies coat could be a natural mutation even if it seems highly unlikely,I mean stranger things have happened. Some dog breeds we have today have come from mutations in the past. But Sophie is so cute I would have picked her even if I knew she was a mix.


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## guest185

Regardless: I want a Sophie!!

The sad thing is, it's obvious you're being lied to - it's awful to have someone lie. The bonus is you got Sophie  xx


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## MissB

She's defo an adorable dog that's for sure!

That said however any dog that you didn't pay the extra for to get a real purebreed, and with that I mean full papers so you can follow the family tree for generations, is never a sure pure. From what I've seen on alot of american puppy sites(alot of mills) there are loads of puppies that are no way pure but are sold as such. 
I only have a few years experience so no expert statement but I have never ever seen a pure chihuahua with wired coat. Only acception to the rule is the blues with some coat and skin issues. 

My own personal opinion is I would never ever buy a puppy without a complete sett of papers. Other hand I show and am starting my breeding so this is very very important to me. 

Enjoy your little girl! Will be fun to see more pics of her as she grows!


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## SillySally

I think as long as Sophie is just a pet and not bred then it doesn't matter what she is and I bet money she isn't full Chi but anywho I am sure she is loved non the less. 

It is to me the same as producing a merle and calling it full blooded no matter how many generations it took to get the merle looking chi, it is still a mutt. But loved non the less because even mutts offer just as much love as the AKC pure breed.


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## Kioana

seeing them mom , she has her head and small nose. so the mix comes from the dad

edited: what rosiemum said was a good point, did you see her with the mom, because could be a puppy back from a stud? did you see her litter mates?


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## SillySally

I totally missed the picture posted of her mom but WOW the mom has no papers and she looks to be from a good bloodline, Mom sure is pretty enough. Its just all too weird.


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## rhaubejoi

i saw that thread too, and i think somebody's bitch backed up to their chainlink fence and 'met' a wire haired terrier. maybe they honestly didnt know, but i dont see how anyone who breeds them could NOT realize that it isnt a full blood chi.....and then sell it for a purebred
however, she is cute and mom is precious. i think that as long as owner is happy with it, and didnt intnd to show and doesnt mind the lie, then its all good......


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## omgashley

Actually, yeah I have a picture of her brothers/sisters (not sure what they are.)

This is what she sent me to show me what Sophie looked like: http://i43.tinypic.com/xn55sl.png
(Sophie is on the far right.)

Stupid me, I didn't know long-haired chis didn't have such wiry fur. I thought it was just because they were really young.


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## Kioana

LOL WOW ! YORKIE MIXES!!
they are super cute though


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## omgashley

Rosiesmum said:


> Did you ever actually see Sophie with her mum, or was she shipped to you?
> If you never saw them together, it's just as likely she wasn't the mum and that might be where the cross came in
> Just a thought, you may of course have seen her on collection
> 
> Barbara x


I've never seen her and her mom together.. my mom and I drove to a town close by and met the breeder to get Sophie. My mom told me she bets that isn't even Sophie's mom, but I'm not sure. Sophie has all of the same colors as her mom in tiny pieces on her back, but her nose is shorter. 

I really do think the dad is where the mix is.


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## Brodysmom

oh my gosh, are they ever cute! A whole litter of them!! That pretty much shoots my theory of it being a coat mutation down the drain. No way there would be 3 coat mutations in a litter. LOL. So she's mixed with something with wiry hair. And no, you weren't STUPID! I think you were incredibly lucky to find her. Just sorry that she was represented to you as a purebred. But like I've said all along, she just couldn't be cuter.  I think you are VERY lucky to have her.

Brodysmom


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## rhaubejoi

*not stupid at all*



omgashley said:


> Actually, yeah I have a picture of her brothers/sisters (not sure what they are.)
> 
> This is what she sent me to show me what Sophie looked like: http://i43.tinypic.com/xn55sl.png
> (Sophie is on the far right.)
> 
> Stupid me, I didn't know long-haired chis didn't have such wiry fur. I thought it was just because they were really young.



not stupid, hon, just inexperienced. dont be so hard on yourself. she will give you just as much love regardless of who her father was. dont beat yourself up over it. live and learn.


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## omgashley

Haha yeah, true. Well either way, I still adore her. 

Edit: May just be me, or my eyes, but I noticed the baby on the far left has thicker fur. If you look at her ears and face, the fur is thicker and less wiry. Hmm, I don't know. Maybe I'm just seeing things, LOL.


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## Kioana

yea that's how i got jamoka, met the breeder in a parking lot . LOL i was told he was akc and going to 4lbs well he's 8lbs!


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