# Just One Litter...



## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

While I am not against breeding of pedigree dogs to improve a healthy standard. Why oh why are people now so mad keen to bred from their pet quality and crossbreed Chihuahuas. Is it to see the cute ickle puppies, the money they hope they'll get when they sell them online??? 

Do they never stop and think that their bitch may die, need major surgery to deliver? The following is a true account and it may be circulated freely.

Barbara x



"I have wanted to share this story since before Christmas but it took me until now to sit down and write it. I learned a tough lesson through this experience, and more importantly became even more enlightened to all the "Angels" out there that sacrifice so much to rescue unwanted animals. 

Some of you may remember my story, I have 2 bichons, a boy, TJ and a girl, Annie. My Annie is so cute that I thought before I get her fixed it would be fun to have one litter. So last June I mated Annie with my sister's bichon and on September 1st she gave birth to 1 girl and 2 boys. 

From the beginning I had two friends that were planning on taking the pups, and one was going to my mom. I had no intentions of selling them for profit, all I wanted was for them to have loving homes. I kept the little pups until they turned 12 weeks old and hard as it was, I gave them to their new owners. Now keep in mind, they all left my home with a storage container filled with new toys, bones, collars and leashes, doggy beds and books on how to take care of Bichons and doggy toothbrushes. Oh, and they had all their shots and were chipped in case they got lost. I made it clear to all the new owners that if for any reason the new pups did not work out, they were to give them back to me..I never dreamed of what happened next. 

Three days after they left, I got a call from the woman who got the little girl Molly. It seems that Molly was going through separation anxiety and would cry loudly whenever her new mom left the room. Since they lived in a Condo, they were receiving complaints about the crying and the management told her that the puppy had to go or she would be evicted. So she brought Molly back to me. 

Three weeks after they left, I got a call from my other friend who said that she did not realize how much responsibility a dog was, and her and her husband had decided that,"they are just not "dog" people" so she brought back Simon. 

Connor the last little guy was going to stay with me until he was potty trained and then he was suppose to go to my mom. Do you know how hard it is to train 3 puppies at once? 

So, after they were all back with me, I realized that there was no way I could let my pups go to people I did not know. After all, my friends that I trusted, who entered into being puppy parents with all the best intentions ended up giving them up. I could not bear the thought of my dogs ever ending up at the Humane society or even wandering the streets because people just decided that they didn't want them. 

So this week my sister took Molly, (she now has 3 bichons). My mom is taking Simon on Wednesday of next week (instead of Connor) and my husband and I are keeping Connor. 

The moral of the story is, FIX YOUR PETS!! Don't do the "one litter" thing. Although I love all my bichons more then anything, it has turned my life upside-down emotionally. It was an incredible experience, and my pups ended up being like my children. As hard as it was to let them go, it was even harder to have everything fall apart with their new homes. 

I apoligize to all you rescuers and foster parents out there, I have incredible respect for what you do every day to save all the unwanted homeless pets. I learned a tough lesson, but I will make it right by loving my pups and will take full responsibility for their lifetime love and care. (Annie has already been fixed!) 

So if any of you out there are considering "just one litter" Don't do it. It is selfish. There are too many unwanted dogs out there that need homes, don't add to the problem!! 

Kmac and the macpherson bichons T.J., Annie, Molly, Simon and Connor "


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## michele (Jan 12, 2009)

How sad,those poor little things,from 1 home to another,people just don't think how much time a puppy takes to train,and look after.I know if lily had ,had puppies i wouldn't want to part with them,then i would worry about them with new owners.


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## iheartchanel (Mar 22, 2009)

I think this should be a sticky in articles. That's something everyone should read.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

I think it makes a very good point.

When I was in rescue so many people would talk about past litters their dogs/cat/rabbits/guinea pigs had produced...but that they had all gone to "good homes."
Few of them (I would imagine) ever checked to see if that puppy/kitten etc was still in that good home 3 months/6 months/ a couple of years later.
Many of the poor little souls would already be passed on/in rescue or worse. 

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but there is an increasing trend on the puppy ad sites for older puppies and Chihuahuas for sale 

Barbara x


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

I won't touch on this much because it is such a controversial issue, but I would never breed my babies just for the fun of it. They mean to much to me. It's safer, and much cheaper to buy a pup. And rescue is always a rewarding option.


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## 3l3ctric (Apr 5, 2009)

Oh thanks! I am going to cross post this to an Italian Greyhound forum that I joined, because they just recently had a troll going on about this same sort of thing, and wouldn't listen to any of the real breeders who tried to explain how hard it is. Perfect


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## Ciarra (May 6, 2008)

Its Terrible some people have to learn the hard way, I hope many people take her advice. Because sadly it goes in one ear and out the other when it come to people breeding their pets. They think they know better, when really they dont know the hardship of whelping and weaning a litter of puppies. Thank goodness the litter was small. Plus money wise, you dont make a dime, more your in debt that when you started...would have been cheaper to fix your dog than to breed.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

FIX I'm all for the procedure having a valuable advantage if it's what the owners want and most do choose to at some point but I really do hate the word fixed. Being able to re-produce doesn't make them broken. It's just such a horribly crude term.


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## Ciarra (May 6, 2008)

Jetta said:


> FIX I'm all for the procedure having a valuable advantage if it's what the owners want and most do choose to at some point but I really do hate the word fixed. Being able to re-produce doesn't make them broken. It's just such a horribly crude term.


I agree its not a great term...Hmm wonder who came up with it. I agree your dogs werent broken, so why are they being fixed? None of mine are fixed lol.


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## 3l3ctric (Apr 5, 2009)

I agree the term is silly, lol. I don't use it, I just flat out say spayed or neutered. 

Although... if we all spay or neuter our pets then we can "FIX" the problem of shelters being overrun by pets


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## Harley Ridin Chopper (Nov 8, 2007)

3l3ctric said:


> Although... if we all spay or neuter our pets then we can "FIX" the problem of shelters being overrun by pets


I would not be surprised at all if that is how the term "fixed" got started. 

It's a shame most people think it is cute or fun or all kids need to experience this or I want one just like her and breed instead of knowing trully what breeding consists of.


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## TLI (Sep 3, 2008)

I just wanted to make sure that my post was read as that I don't agree with one litter/random breeding. I think breeding should be left in the hands of a Breeder.


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## *Chloe* (Feb 6, 2006)

the story does make a good point


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## katsrevenge (Nov 24, 2008)

Why? I think you can find that in those ads that ask 800 to 3,000 for a puppy that comes from parents that you could legally keep in something the size of my bathroom... and you have people willing to pay that sum for said puppy. Most will breed as long as it is making them money... and will stop when people stop buying. It's simple.

Right, wrong... I'm SO on the fence for many reasons. I just hope they don't breed and try to adopt instead. 

Now, if said 'good' breeders kept the pups till they were old enough for the Snip and just included that in the price... the problem might be somewhat resolved. (Unless said pup was A+ and headed to a fellow breeder.)


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

If we one day in the future do decide to have a litter it certainly won't be for money and won't be done on a whim either I don't like to anything by halves and even planned my own childrens conceptions right down to what school year they'd be in and making sure they weren't born around Christmas lol, I'm daft like that. I know others that have bread (just one litter) and particularly visiting the pups because the Mum had just come back into her cycle and bled down my jeans :-(. Now there's a whole family of jack russels all in the same street which is sweet.

I'm sure some people might do this without much prior thought but with the right support and guidance from the vet amongst others I don't see why it has to be such a cardinal sin.

We would of course keep one pup from the litter and the others would be carefully found suitabl homes. Money doesn't come into it the only purpose a price would really have would be to aid in ensuring a proper home.

Many want the bitch to experience motherhood too and I'd feel as though as I was robbing her of something for her to never have puppies. I think that is the biggest reason for people wanting just one litter as they wouldn't feel as comfortable having a bitch spayed if she'd never had pups. It just doesn't seem quite right in a way.


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## N*T*M*4U (Nov 10, 2008)

I can't be a breeder cause I want to keep them all.....


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Oh flippin heck I put bread instead of bred lol I'm tired and that's the excuse I'm sticking with


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## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

Nana4u said:


> I can't be a breeder cause I want to keep them all.....


Me too!!! Seriously, I can hardly control myself and I'm not raising puppies.




Jetta said:


> Oh flippin heck I put bread instead of bred lol I'm tired and that's the excuse I'm sticking with


Hey, it reads the same. Don't sweat it!!!


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Jetta said:


> Many want the bitch to experience motherhood too and I'd feel as though as I was robbing her of something for her to never have puppies. I think that is the biggest reason for people wanting just one litter as they wouldn't feel as comfortable having a bitch spayed if she'd never had pups. It just doesn't seem quite right in a way.


Hello 

Many people think along these lines quite mistakenly. Bitches mate because it is a natural instinct to do so when in season, they have no idea it will result in puppies. *A dog does not miss what it has never known.*

Giving birth, perhaps especially Toy and small breed crosses with larger heads like the Chihuahua is not always easy and many will need a caesarian or help from an experienced breeder to deliver. Bitches really do sometimes *die* during labour or surgery and I am sure an experienced breeder will confirm this. If you lost your bitch would you know how to hand rear a litter of tiny puppies? Would you have the time? Many hand rears don't make it, so you could lose mum and pups....it happens 

I once spoke to a lady who lost her Yorkie bitch after mating her. The Yorkie was a much loved pet and yes it was only ever going to be "Just one littter" 
She said she would never forgive herself and would always regret it 
How would you feel?

You have mentioned you can't afford the price of a pedigree Chihuahua or Papillon at £1000. Which is why you are loking at buying a much cheaper crossbred.
If you find your bitch needs an emergency caesarian, you could double or even triple that amount and dog insurance won't cover it.
What then?

Please think a little on this and if you find a friend for Loki have her spayed. Obviously it is up to you. But as you have seen from looking at The Many Tears Rescue site in Wales where you live....There is already an enormous amount of small cute pedigree and crosses looking for homes, not to mention all the pups fom the puppy farms 

Barbara x

Many Tears Dog Rescue in Wales ~ http://www.freewebs.com/manytearsrescue/dogslookingforhomes.htm


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> Hello
> 
> Many people think along these lines quite mistakenly.....


Wether it is mistakenly or not can only be an opinion as we can not know for certain it is something that can really be proven. And where something can only be a matter of opinion it is of course going to be the case that people will have opinions that differ. Unlike yourself I will not be so mighty as to say that you are wrong but I will say that I disagree.

It doesn't take proffesional advice from a vet to point out that a larger dad could cause babies that are difficult if not impossible for the mother to birth. Hence why Loki's mother was the bigger dog. We don't know how big Loki will grow or for certain which dog will be our next though I do know what we'd like. These will all be factors taken into account obviously.

As for money pedigree Papillons are half the price of Chi's a cross would just be our most favoured choice and would cost about the same. It Is not that money isn't there it certainly is but it is intended for other purposes, we would not dent it for one pup that we both did want equaly and Matt is not fond of pedigree chi's thus wouldn't agree with the expenditure for one when there are cheaper breeds that he prefers. An expenditure for vets bills needed for a bitch and her litter to survive however would be an unquestionable reason to make a small dent in our investment savings. We both would agree on this without a doubt.

As I said it certainly isn't something I would take lightly this stating the obvious doesn't achieve much.

As for Many tears they do not have many pups but they do have many many ex breeding dogs who've never lived in doors and are very fearfull. As much as I feel for these animals even the shelter would I'm sure never re-home them in a houshold with a new puppy and two young children. 

As for breeding only being something they do out of instincts it is largly the same for us too, I certainly have a strong instinct to copulate (yuck word) but also to have babies and waitting tip I was married before having my girls was so so hard because the brooding was so strong. Hence why I had kittens to date the feeling for a while and why Matt wanted a puppy so much.

When it comes to dogs though it is still mostly just opinions and when they are needed for the serious details as aposed to just passing chat then it will of course be proffesionals that are consulted and their words which are heeded as aposed to pushy straingers. Let's not forget that opinions are indeed just opinions.


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## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

It probably wasn't more than 2 years ago when I got the idea in my head to maybe breed. It lasted no more than about a month. After I really started doing my research and talking with my breeder friends (who are local and offered me their complete and total support), I still realized that this is not something to be taken lightly, for myself and my family, that is. I know it's such a touchy subject on the forum and opinions are quite strong. It's easy to get caught up in it when we love our dear animals so much and who doesn't want to experience that??? After barely skimming the surface of the breeding realm, I completely put it to rest and just got another chi. LOL. So much to it. So much money. My breeder has been breeding for 18 years. She shows all her dogs and won't even breed them until they are "finished". It is her life and she loves it but also has to work part time because she doesn't make enough money "breeding". She does it for the love and betterment of the breed and the costs far outweigh what she makes. I knew in my heart that I would be doing something very selfish to try the breeding experience. My pets mean too much to me and I also wouldn't want to risk that. This is only what I felt and what was right for my family.


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## Ciarra (May 6, 2008)

Jetta said:


> Many want the bitch to experience motherhood too and I'd feel as though as I was robbing her of something for her to never have puppies. I think that is the biggest reason for people wanting just one litter as they wouldn't feel as comfortable having a bitch spayed if she'd never had pups. It just doesn't seem quite right in a way.


I cant agree with this term which so many people make the mistake of using and then breeding the first litter. My Honda is barely 3lbs, her father was just over 7lbs and mom was barely 5lbs and yes she was my unplanned litter. It was her turn to take a break and only her sister would have been bred that year. I was so worried when they tied happened since they tied thru a heat diaper...I called my mentor so upset and she told me she should be fine. Since the dad my Odie was the biggest out of the litter and everyone else in the litter stayed under 4lbs. He even got bigger than his parents and he wasnt over weight. 

So when they day came, 60 days later My Misty gave birth to 4 tiny mice puppies. They were so small my mentor told me not to get upset if they didnt make it. Well they did all make it and all have stayed under 4lbs and there was 3 boys LC and 1 girl SC. My Honda, well Misty and Odie died in a fire right after christmas this year and I only got the puppies out in time and 3 other dogs. Honda still till this day reminds me of her mother. She even cries like her, and her mom was a super mom. She was in heaven with a litter of puppies, she even took over her sisters litter of 4 as well as her own 4. 

But since I lost her mother and father, I would love the carry on the generation. But she is too small and I care for her too much to let her breed. Even if I found a 1lb male, I couldnt risk that his backround could be filled with larger family members. Plus also her father was big, and I just couldnt let her breed. I even fear getting her spayed because the vets around her dont know small dogs very well and I would hate to lose her that way as well. So when it comes to her time to be in heat, she will stay with family or I will hang her from the ceiling. Not every dog needs or deserves to have a litter, and my Honda is living proof. and She will stay living and not knowing what its like to be a mother so she can live for me.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Ciarra said:


> Not every dog needs or deserves to have a litter, and my Honda is living proof. and She will stay living and not knowing what its like to be a mother so she can live for me.


So very true 

It's lovely to lknow you value her too much to risk a litter. I'd feel exactly the same way.

Barbara x


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

> She even cries like her, and her mom was a super mom. She was in heaven with a litter of puppies, she even took over her sisters litter of 4 as well as her own 4.


The way you talk of the litter you had I'm not sure how it is a negative thing and clearly you are a breeder so can't be against breeding. You did however state many very valid reasons for not breeding this one very treasured little girl of yours but I am not thinking of breeding a 3lb chi. Loki is already 5lbs so couldn't have a litter with a tiny chi.

It's ever so sad to hear of the fire and the loss of two of your k9 family but it did make me smile to read of what excellent mum she was. I'm not suprises you treasure their daughter so protectivly I'm sure anyone else would also.


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## Ciarra (May 6, 2008)

Jetta said:


> The way you talk of the litter you had I'm not sure how it is a negative thing and clearly you are a breeder so can't be against breeding. You did however state many very valid reasons for not breeding this one very treasured little girl of yours but I am not thinking of breeding a 3lb chi. Loki is already 5lbs so couldn't have a litter with a tiny chi.
> 
> It's ever so sad to hear of the fire and the loss of two of your k9 family but it did make me smile to read of what excellent mum she was. I'm not suprises you treasure their daughter so protectivly I'm sure anyone else would also.


Yes I agree I am a breeder, But im against people thinking they need to do the one breeding for the pet to feel like a real pet. Breeding is so hard, and its money and time consuming. Plus I only bred when there was a demand for my puppies. Its to hard finding homes, this economy doesnt help any. I have taken a back seat to breeding. I just want people to know the hardship of breeding so they really know what they are getting into. Because Breeding isnt a walk in the park. I didnt breed designers, I only breed pures. I see designers are good pets. But I wouldnt breed them, to confusing with percentage and all. PLus you dont know what your gonna get, with pures its plain and easy, because puppies will looks like parents or grandparents.


I didnt just lose those 2, I lost most of my dogs. I had 8 puppies and 11 adult dogs, and only 3 adult dogs and the puppies made it out alive. I had 2 Chinese Crested, One Scottish Terrier and the Rest were Chihuahuas. 
I lost Misty, Tiger Lilly, Daisy, Bikky, Odie, MoMo, Saber and Baby, all in one nite.


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## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

Ciarra said:


> Yes I agree I am a breeder, But im against people thinking they need to do the one breeding for the pet to feel like a real pet. Breeding is so hard, and its money and time consuming. Plus I only bred when there was a demand for my puppies. Its to hard finding homes, this economy doesnt help any. I have taken a back seat to breeding. I just want people to know the hardship of breeding so they really know what they are getting into. Because Breeding isnt a walk in the park. I didnt breed designers, I only breed pures. I see designers are good pets. But I wouldnt breed them, to confusing with percentage and all. PLus you dont know what your gonna get, with pures its plain and easy, because puppies will looks like parents or grandparents.
> 
> 
> I didnt just lose those 2, I lost most of my dogs. I had 8 puppies and 11 adult dogs, and only 3 adult dogs and the puppies made it out alive. I had 2 Chinese Crested, One Scottish Terrier and the Rest were Chihuahuas.
> I lost Misty, Tiger Lilly, Daisy, Bikky, Odie, MoMo, Saber and Baby, all in one nite.


Oh Ciarra, that must have been before I was here. I have tears in my eyes at what you must have gone through. I don't even have words for you except how strong of a woman you must be to have gotten through that. These things that happen in our life make us who we are. I have no extent what you personally lost or suffered through that fire but the puppies alone would have probably put me in an institution somewhere. God bless you. Still waiting anxiously to hear of your pending non fur delivery!!!


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## Ciarra (May 6, 2008)

rcj1095 said:


> Oh Ciarra, that must have been before I was here. I have tears in my eyes at what you must have gone through. I don't even have words for you except how strong of a woman you must be to have gotten through that. These things that happen in our life make us who we are. I have no extent what you personally lost or suffered through that fire but the puppies alone would have probably put me in an institution somewhere. God bless you. Still waiting anxiously to hear of your pending non fur delivery!!!


All you can do is keep going, and try to remember the happier times. Some times its really hard to look at Honda cause she is such spitten image of her mother. But anytime time after May 1st will be my time to deliver.


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## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

Ciarra said:


> All you can do is keep going, and try to remember the happier times. Some times its really hard to look at Honda cause she is such spitten image of her mother. But anytime time after May 1st will be my time to deliver.


You are so right. Unfortunately, bad things do happen to good people. I'm so glad you have Honda. Are you nervous about all the pups with the baby?


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## Ciarra (May 6, 2008)

rcj1095 said:


> You are so right. Unfortunately, bad things do happen to good people. I'm so glad you have Honda. Are you nervous about all the pups with the baby?


No, there are pretty good around kids. Plus they say since the baby smells like the owner they accept baby pretty easy. I think they will be pretty protective of him. But they wont be near him till he is walking age, I wont put him on the floor or anything. He will be in his Play Yard.


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## rcj1095 (Mar 4, 2009)

It'll all work out just beautifully. You deserve it!!! Don't sweat the labor. It hurts like you know what but once it's over, it's like it never happened.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Jetta said:


> When it comes to dogs though it is still mostly just opinions and when they are needed for the serious details as aposed to just passing chat then it will of course be proffesionals that are consulted and their words which are heeded as aposed to pushy straingers. Let's not forget that opinions are indeed just opinions.


*Sometimes opinions based on fact and experience are worth listening too I've spent many, many years in animal/dog rescue so do have a little knowledge to draw upon *

Another thing to keep in mind and of course anyone else thinking of breeding from a pet male dog...So generalising really.

Loki might be a sweet bundle of fluff that dotes on the family now. But when he is in the same house as a bitch in season and the run up to it....all he'll focus on is mating!

During this period he'll very likely mark (wee) around your home on furniture and anything that takes his fancy, this is quite normal as he is identifying his territory. He'll also be inclined to do it more in the garden, on walks and when you take him out and about....including other peoples homes 

Your children if they are near the in season bitch....and even if they are not... are also likely to receive his unwanted attention as many male dogs will mount children if they smell a bitch in season on them 

A bitch approaching her season also often wees more frequently and even if house broken in the home. She is "advertising" her ability to mate. This scent marking will attract any passing stray male dogs to your house.

Please for your own sake and your flooring and furniture, remember that once a male starts to piddle in the home, it easily becomes a habit and even neutering does not always stop it.

Yep..."Just one litter" can have far reaching and not so positive consequences on many levels. Not least for the dogs 

Barbara x


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Maybe you can realize that you've made your point many many times now and when the time comes that we make our choice as I've said before we will consult those we think proffessional and helpfull but I think this is one bone should drop now you're attitude is very pushy and condacending and that does not make a person want to heed a single word you say.

Not everybody will always want to do as you tell them and back down to your views I think discussions are far better when people can partake while still being able to sit back a little and know when enough is enough and I think on this issue that point is long past.

Rossiesmum I'm sorry if you can not handle the fact that your views are not ones I wish to conceed to due the manner in which you choose to push them but it's not the end of the world we don't all get along with everybody and that's ok so let it be and move on.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Jetta said:


> Maybe you can realize that you've made your point many many times now and when the time comes that we make our choice as I've said before we will consult those we think proffessional and helpfull but I think this is one bone should drop now



Mmm....It was you who responded to this thread and I have replied to it, that's generally the idea of a discussion forum 

My posts are based on experience within the dog world and fact. If you don't wish to add anything else to this thread, then that is your choice and I respect that.

But it's not all about you and what you do or do not wish to see "dropped"  

Barbara x


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## guest185 (Oct 27, 2008)

I never usually read or respond to rosiesmum's post, however I just had a feeling what would be going on in here.


You clearly started this thread off the back of Jetta's post and it was obviously aimed at her in the main. You really need to let it go and stop jumping on people.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

*Julie* said:


> I never usually read or respond to rosiesmum's post, however I just had a feeling what would be going on in here.
> 
> 
> You clearly started this thread off the back of Jetta's post and it was obviously aimed at her in the main. You really need to let it go and stop jumping on people.


And Julie you really need to stop picking over my posts to cause trouble. yet another of your posts I have to report 

Barbara x


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## guest185 (Oct 27, 2008)

Rosiesmum said:


> And Julie you really need to stop picking over my posts to cause trouble. yet another of your posts I have to report
> 
> Barbara x


Oh please - I asked YOU ages ago to stay out of my threads and not respond to my posts and you blatently do it for a reaction.

You haunt this forum waiting to pounce on people with your 'thoughts'.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

*Julie* said:


> Oh please - I asked YOU ages ago to stay out of my threads and not respond to my posts and you blatently do it for a reaction.
> 
> You haunt this forum waiting to pounce on people with your 'thoughts'.


Your showing you true colours now Julie...

Barbara


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## guest185 (Oct 27, 2008)

No, i'm highlighting yours.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

*Julie* said:


> I never usually read or respond to rosiesmum's post, however I just had a feeling what would be going on in here.
> 
> 
> You clearly started this thread off the back of Jetta's post and it was obviously aimed at her in the main. You really need to let it go and stop jumping on people.


Julie's posted nothing that isn't blatantly obvious and correct, there's clearly a history here but I do know that she sat back for a long while on this one untill it really got to the 'dog with a bone' stage and then posted a very tactfull post and re-itterated the point that you have taken this one a little far now way past pleasantries. And yes it was indeed very obvious that the thread was posted off the back of mine and clearly to stir something up.

It's an unpleasant way to conduct yourself and it's not exactly subtle.

It's obviously an emotive subject and I'm newish so wasn't aware of that but I'm quite sure you were and only posted this thread in response to mine for argumentative purposes.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Jetta said:


> I'm quite sure you were and only posted this thread in response to mine for argumentative purposes.


Not worth the bother 

Barbara x


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## Katie (Apr 9, 2005)

Please take your personal attacks and arguments to PMs, they will not be tolerated on the board.


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