# BREEDING TINY FEMALE CHIHUAHUAS - IT WILL KILL THEM!!!



## 2BLUCHIS (May 10, 2004)

I'm taking this post off - although I think that I'm right I don't want to offend any other chi people. I love it here and don't want to be looked down upon.


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## janiebabes (Mar 30, 2004)

You are correct the small size of the parents will not guarantee the size of the litter. Teacup is not a given name for a Chi breed it is a term tagged used for the small of a litter. You cant assume you have purchased a "Teacup". the size and weight of a pup can be estimated but, until they are 9 months to a year you won't know. Chi's are actually known as toy breeds and standard is 6 lbs as noted on the A.K.C. site. The only way i can describe it is. As with humans there are dwarfs and midgets however, that does not mean they will have dwarf or midget children.


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## islandbabies (May 19, 2004)

I'll agree here too. It is not safe and potentially fatal to the mom and the pups. 2.2 lbs. is too small to breed, I say no breeding if the mom doesn't even reach at the least, 4 lbs. And maybe the 4 pounder breeder females should be left to a more experienced breeder. You also have to take into consideration the lines in which the mother and father come from. They could have really large heads, or just may be bigger chi's. Breeding a small male and small female doesn't gurantee you'll get small babies. Please, please reconsider not putting your precious baby through breeding. Get her fixed and enjoy her company as a wonderful lap dog.


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

I am sorry to have to stick my oar in as it is probably none of my business but the person you are talking about is a close friend of mine who is an experienced chi owner who has been around chis alll her life you have quoted her on one comment and she obviously would not go into detail on a fun website this person is well aware that a chi should be 4 pounds or more in order to breed and is hoping her chi reaches this weight but obviously her pup is only 6 months at the moment so who knows if she will or not, I think it is quite wrong of you to of done this on a website where she has lots of friendsa and loves cioming to , if you had a problem with what she had said I feel the correct way of dealing with it would of been to pm her and ask her about it and get all the facts first, please do not take offence to what I am saying but this is such a lovely forum with such caring owners and she is one of them, she is a student but puts trthe welfare of her dogs first and has done everything for her ill dog personally i think she should be comended.

please dont think i am having a go at you I just think you should get the whole story first and I have answered as i dont know when she will be next online to answer thios and I dont want anymore people thinking bad of her

thankyou for listening sorry if i have waffled a bit :wave:


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## 2BLUCHIS (May 10, 2004)

I have a friend who's tiny chi got pregnang on accident, she was not at a healthy weight to get fixed, and went throught heat early. Before her owner noticed she was in heat she had already gotten pregnant. Her breeder told her she should wait till she was a year old before she had her fixed :x , and she didn't know any better. Anyway, the she ended up dying during when she was giving birth to her third dead puppy. It was so sad. The fourth one never made it out. So there were no puppies that survived, and the mom died also, the mom was almost 3lbs. It's so sad, but I hear stories like this all the time. At first I wanted to let Sophia have puppies, but she's still under 3lbs at 7 months, and won't get much bigger, so I would never be selfish enought to put her through a pregnancy that would most likely kill her. Just look at this face...HOW could anyone even concider breeding such a small dog?? It makes me sick...


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

no I understand what you are saying and my friend would have no intention of breeding her dog unless she is the right and safe weight, it is very sad what happened to your friends dog but it does not mean to say that this will happen with ginger as my friend would not let anything bad happen to her as she loves her chi as much as you love chico :wave:


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## 2BLUCHIS (May 10, 2004)

Yes, but if you are breeding a dog as small as ------ you are asking for problems. Do a search on the internet for safe breeding weight for chihuahuas, you will see what I'm talking about. Again it's not a personal attack, I'm only stating facts. It is irresponsible to breed any dog that is so small. I'm sorry if I sound mean, and I know you want to stick up for her if she is your friend, but every breeder I have spoken to says that any small dog like ------ cannot be bred. Matter of fact, most responsible breeders will require you to sign a leagal spay contract when you purchase a puppy small as ------. You can hate me if you want for my post, but what I'm saying is true.


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## 2BLUCHIS (May 10, 2004)

If she weighs under 3lbs at 6months she will never be 4lbs unless she is overweight. This isnt' a personal attack, and I didn't put her name out there. I commend her also for taking such good care of her ill dog, I know how heart wrenching and expensive it can be to have an ill animal. Again, it isn't a personal attack, it just upset me so bad that I had to post something. I didn't mention any names, except the dogs name because I quoted what was written in the profile. Sorry if I offended you, or your friend I didn't mean to. I wanted to get others input, that's why I posted.


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## Mia (Feb 29, 2004)

I deffinetly agree that tiny chis girls shouldnt be bred because of the danger involved, the chis still young thos, so i guess its a case of wait and see as to how big she actualy does turn out, im sure the last thing ne one on here would do is risk loosing there precious chi baby, and i know for the fact that the member who this concerns would never dream of putting her little girl in any danger 
mia
x


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

there is nothing to say that ginger will not reach 4 pounds when fully grown she is only six months old and will not be completely grown until she is 2 years old , I know you do not mean any offence but you are looking at it very one sided as I said before she has NO intention of breeding if ginger does not reach 4 pounds in weight .


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## 2BLUCHIS (May 10, 2004)

Maybe I will remove the post... but if she has had chi's for so long and knows so much about them she would know that if ------ weighs 2.2 lbs at six months it will never be big enough to breed. I'm sorry I really don't want to offend anyone. If you would like me to remove this post I will, but I think it's very educational, and people can learn from it. I'm not saying this is the case with ------- mom but lots of people want chi's just like theirs so they breed them and it ends in a catastrophe. Let me know if you want me to remove it. I love this site and don't want people to think I am a mean person, I am a person who loves animals and don't want to see any get hurt. I HAVE REMOVED ALL NAMES FROM THIS POST BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO OFFEND ANYONE.


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

you are a very valued member on this forum and we do not want to remove your posts unnecessarily but I do think it is unfair how you havree used a certain member as an example I think next time so not to cause problems the best thing would of been to submit your post but not too make it personal as there was no need to mention the member you could of pm her to inform her of your opinion and still put the post about not breeding small chis , then it would definately not offend people and would be great as wouldbe very educational.

thanks for your opinions all the same you are so right in making the point that FULL grown chis who are less tand 4 pounds should not be bred 

tahnkyou :wave:


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## 2BLUCHIS (May 10, 2004)

Thank you ozz for understanding. I agree, I shouldn't have posted it about a single memeber, but it was the one instance of this that made me so upset. I have removed all names from my post and put ------ in it's place. Hopefully this helps. I have been around chi's for a long time, I have known many chis from the time they were 8wks old up until over 5 years old and I have never seen a chi that was 2.2 lbs at six months, or any other small chi get to be over 3.5lbs. I'm sorry but I just haven't seen it, that's why I knew I was making an informed statement. Maybe she or you have seen otherwise. I have seen bigger chi's grow more rapidly, gaining a pound or more after six months of age. The small one's don't grow as quickly and don't gain alot of weight after six - seven months of age. My Sophia has weighed the same for the past month, only gaining an ounce. I have many friends and family with Chi's. Hopefully you are right though Ozz.


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

as the person in question replied to you in another post I do not feel there is much to say on this subject other than what the person put on dogster was an error as we all make, her chi was actually 2.5 pounds at 4 months and still gaining weight, I really appreciate how you have ammended your original post but feel i must comment on what you have in its place (sorrry I feel as strong about clearing my friends name as you do about the topic....lol ) as you have put although I think im right , you are not right in this instance because this person does NOT intend to breed her chi unless it reaches 4 or more pounds in weight which the vet informs her it more than likely will.

sorry to be a nit pick but I really dont want my friend getting a bad name through an untrue account of what she intends to do with her dog

I so hope this can all be dropped now it has been cleared up and we can all get back to having a wonderful lovely friendly forum with no nastiness , at the end of the day we are all dog lovers as we would not be visiting this site :wave: 

no hard feelings from anyone involved in this ispute lets have a great big

*GROUP HUG* :love3:


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## 2BLUCHIS (May 10, 2004)

I just feel that since 4lbs is the minimum weight (most breeders don't even breed females unless they weigh more around 5-6lbs) doesn't mean it is okay for someone who has never bred chi's before to do it. I think that whoever said it should probably be left up to more experienced breeders is very correct in what they said. That's why I said I still think I'm right. I don't think I'm being nasty - I just think it's something that needs to be put out there. Especially since lots of new chi owners, and chi owners to be come to this site to do research. It is a mistake that is made too often by many people who think they have a good breeding dog. Again, nothing personal to anyone, it's just a fact, I'm not saying the person in question doesn't care about her dogs, I'm sure she loves her dogs very much and is a great person, forget it, I rest my case.


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

yes you are very correct in what you are saying but as the person in question had grown up around dogs been bred etc I think she has alot of the first hand experience needed she also has 2 years to prepare herself and she will keep in close contact with her vet etc, just because a dog is 5 - 6 pounds does not mean they are going to have a smooth labour etc they are still small dogs and it always carrys a risk if the pups are big but I am sure the person will do all the research that is required to keep her baby and babies babies safe


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## stelun (Mar 14, 2004)

I am getting into this conversation.......I don't agree at all with people breeding tiny female chihuahuas, this might kill them!!! I guess the main reason why people do it is to get money when they sell the puppies....that's even worse!!!!


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## absolethe (Apr 18, 2004)

*A bad idea*

Well, of course not.

If the dog is too small to breed safely, then don't. Most people aren't idiotic or cruel enough to do so. It's a sad fact that some people may do so out of ignorance. Others do so out of greed, but these people are not good people, are they? I don't believe that describes anyone at this forum.

Most breeders who do attempt to breed smaller Chis make sure the female is a safe size and breed her with a small male. Genetics are complicated, so there are no guarantees--good breeders realize this. Good breeders also watch smaller females carefully and take appropriate measures if a complication arises.

For example, your friend whose female 'accidentally' got pregnant had the option of taking her dog to the vet and having the pups aborted for the health of the mother. A dog can be spayed after pregnancy.


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## jenjohnston02 (May 2, 2004)

o.k 
this obviously is a big thing. here is my opinion and you can read it or not 

from what i'm reading this is still attacking -------- now, this isn't about her or the dog this is about opinions and people going too far. i definitely agree as does every other sane person you should not breed if the dog is to small thats not in question BUT as to -------- she is not going to put her dog in danger not for money and not for puppy's now i personally think this is enough no more about this women or her choices i have herd enough and so has most other people on this forum. anyway i hope your friend comes back to the forum and i hope she doesn't let peoples inconsiderate statements keep her away.


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## 2BLUCHIS (May 10, 2004)

I'm done with this thread, some people over react way too much!!


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## Mia (Feb 29, 2004)

lol ok thread closed! altho 2bluechis feel free to write an article for the Q&A forum maybe find some links about chi labour, and i can make it a sticky for this forum, like some of the other articles.
We will lay this one to rest but itd be good to have some ifo among the other articles as the danger or breeding chis is an important issue! and i feel weve drifted away from the issue in this thread
mia
x


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## my3angels (Apr 15, 2004)

Mia, I hope you let me post about this, seeing that this attack is directed towards me.
First off let me just say that I have never once said I was going to, for sure, breed my dog. It was a thought I had.
Second, dont for one minute accuse me of being an irresponsible dog owner. I have grown up with dogs all of my life and have seen many of my dogs have puppies. I know the risks and I know what measures to take.
Third, dont compare me to those irresponsible breeders out there who are doing it just to make a buck. If you would even read my posts I am not interested in money, just expressing an interest in breeding my dog who, in my opinion and the opinion of my vet, is a great example of the breed.
I dont understand why this has become such a heated discussion. You people are acting like I want to breed her at this moment and havent considered the risks. 
I come to this site because the people here are respectful and are helpful...this is the first time I have ever been attacked like this. You have assumed a lot about me tonight and all of your assumptions have been totally wrong. 
I am personally getting tired of trying to defend myself when there is no need to.
For those of you who are only reading this thread and have come with some impression of me, let me explain...

First off, I never once said I would for sure breed my dog. She is small and I know the risks involved. If she gets to a good size and if my vet gives me the okay I might breed her.... not even sure I will even if my vet says its okay.

Second, I have grown up with dogs all my life, both large and small and they have had puppies before. I have bottle-fed puppies since birth and have had a lot of experience with volunteering at local shelters with puppies.

Third, I have been researching breeding for a while now, even before I got my dogs...it has always been something I was interested in and know a great deal about. I am always talking to local breeders I know and listening to their advise. Right now the opinion is that if she can get to 4.5lbs then that is a good size to breed.

Fourth, dont think for one second I am doing this just for money. I dont understand what gives you that right to just assume that is what I am doing. Breeders who are any good will breed a dog because they want to better the breed, that is it. I dont know if I would even sell the puppies if I get any.... i might just give them to people who I know who will care for them and who know how to raise chihuahuas. 

I guess I am at a loss for words now. I cannot believe the response I have gotten and all the faulse accusations that have come towards me. You know why Clare was defending me, its because she has been talking to me before she got her dog and knows exactly what my intensions are. I thank you Clare for trying to stand up for me.

I feel like I cannot even post here anymore because of what people think of me now. Will anyone even take me seriously anymore or will they just see my name and say "oh its that girl who wants to kill her dog". It really makes me sad to see so many people attack me like this, especially when you guys dont even know the full story, you are just taking a piece of a post out of context. 

I come to this site to get away from all the hassle of life and to talk to people who share the same interests I do. Not too many people I know are dog people and its nice to come to a site where we all have that in common. I am very hurt you guys would say those things about me, without first asking me if what you read was true or not. I had no idea this thread even existed until now and look how long it is. Why cant you just send me a PM and ask me instead of getting all these people to think I am a bad person.

I am done talking. I am done trying to defend myself to people who dont care enough to get the full story from me before slandering me. 

Mia, I really hope you will post this. I feel like I need to say this to defend myself. 

To everyone else on this site, I am very sorry you had to be inconvenienced with this. I really didnt know this type of thread would even come to exist here. I feel partly responsible because all of this happened just because a couple things were taken from another post and assumptions were made. Again, I am sorry.

-Jessica


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## my3angels (Apr 15, 2004)

I am going to apologize again. I re-read my last post and it came across very defensive. I should learn to wait a half hour before opening my mouth. My general comments stay the same, I just want to say sorry if it came across in a nasty way. The last thing I want to do is get sucked into attacking other people, its just that it really upsets me when people assume things about me when its not true. Most of you werent posting your comments directely at me (at least I hope not), you were just commenting on the topic. I know that and I am in no way upset with you. Its a very important topic and should be discussed, it just got out of hand when I started getting verbally attacked and I needed to defend myself.
I am done now...lol...now that I have had time to calm down. I just wish people would ask me first about my intentions before posting them for all to see...that is what the PM is for.
If anyone wants to PM me about this, please do so! If you are sick of this thread already, totally understand! I wont be posting on this tread anymore.
Again, sorry!
-Jessica


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## my3angels (Apr 15, 2004)

I am going to apologize again. I re-read my last post and it came across very defensive. I should learn to wait a half hour before opening my mouth. My general comments stay the same, I just want to say sorry if it came across in a nasty way. The last thing I want to do is get sucked into attacking other people, its just that it really upsets me when people assume things about me when its not true. Most of you werent posting your comments directely at me (at least I hope not), you were just commenting on the topic. I know that and I am in no way upset with you. Its a very important topic and should be discussed, it just got out of hand when I started getting verbally attacked and I needed to defend myself.
I am done now...lol...now that I have had time to calm down. I just wish people would ask me first about my intentions before posting them for all to see...that is what the PM is for.
If anyone wants to PM me about this, please do so! If you are sick of this thread already, totally understand! I wont be posting on this tread anymore.
Again, sorry!
-Jessica


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## NoahFL (May 14, 2004)

> I come to this site to get away from all the hassle of life and to talk to people who share the same interests I do. Not too many people I know are dog people and its nice to come to a site where we all have that in common.


Just my 2 cents here... Lets not forget why we come to this site. Jessica summed it up quite well. I really enjoy coming to this site and seeing how friendly everyone is towards each other. I joined this site because I saw how supportive people were towards one another and so friendly and willing to talk and read about each other Chi's and really be interested.


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## Mia (Feb 29, 2004)

aww jess  , im sorry the post seemed to get a bit out of hand, i think i can safely speak for everyone to say they were against the issue of breeding when it endangers the mothers life, they were not speaking out against you! 
I have no doubt in my mind about your love for your chi babies, any one who has read your other posts or gotten to know you, will obviously see that you are a very caring owner! and a credit to the group 
mia
x


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## funkydancer3 (Mar 5, 2004)

jess :wave: 

I have known you a long, long time now and have always known that you are a great person and a Fantastic dog owner, anyone who doubts this just has to go back and read the posts about what you are doing for Kylie at the moment.

Hopefully this situation can be put behind everyone as just a misunderstanding.


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## absolethe (Apr 18, 2004)

Trust me, I definately don't think you're jumping into anything out of idiocy or cruelty.

2BlueChis is over-enthusiastic with her studies.

Feel free to continue to post, not everyone online jumps to conclusions at a post's notice.


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## my3angels (Apr 15, 2004)

Thank you everyone! I was really worried that I would get blacklisted for this. I love this site and love everyone on it! I am glad this didn’t get as out of hand as I thought it would. Let me just say that I was a tad emotional last night :shock: . I had a horrible day and I let that cloud over when I was posting here. 

NoahFL – Thanks for say what you did. You are totally right; this site is great because of the people on here and how friendly everyone is! I got upset and my reply came out as mean and I am sorry. I should learn to wait a couple hours before replying to anything I am upset about. There are so many sites out there who flame their members (right Clare  ) and those sites are no fun to go to. This site is great because non of that goes on. I know that last post will be the last one I ever write in anger. If I need to be firm with someone I will do it through PM and not subject the members of this site to a private argument.

Absolethe – Thanks for that. My biggest worry was how people who didn’t know me as well would view this whole thing. It makes me feel better to see your post! I did get a little dramatic in my post…lol! At the time I felt like everyone would hate me and think negatively towards me…I was worried about it, but it came out all dramatic in my post…chalk that up to being overly emotional last night (It was a long, bad day to begin with…I really should had slept on this whole thing…lol)

Islandbabies – Thanks for chatting with me last night! It really helped a lot. Like I said before it was a horrible day from the beginning and I just want to thank you for letting me vent a little! My house finally did cool off enough for me to fall asleep at 2am…lol! 

Mia – I was so worried you might think less of me because of this. Like I told you earlier I highly value your opinion of me and am very relieved that you posted that. I love your site and feel horrible for what happened! This post will be the last I post on this thread and I will leave anything else to PM. Thanks again :-D

Amie (Funkydancer3) – Hopefully we can still kid around about Diesel and Ginger ‘hooking up’…lol! Thank you for saying what you did. I wasn’t too worried about what you or Clare would think of the post because I have known you to a very long time and you two were there when I first got Kylie and all I went through and continue to go through with her. I knew you guys would understand where I was coming from, especially you because I talk to you about it more then anything…hehe. I just want you to know that your support during these times (not just now, but from the beginning) has been a huge help!!! Thanks girl 

Clare (Ozzysmom) – thanks for letting me know what was going on! I would never have even thought to look in the Article section of the site to see what was going on. I thought that it originally started in the Chi Chat section, but now I know better. You have been so supportive of me; this isn’t the first time you stuck your neck out for me! You did that for me when we first met. I was so happy you were there and happy you directed me to your site and to this one!!! (That other one was bad news!) You have been a great friend to me! Just wanted you to know that!!!!!

To everyone else I am sorry. If anything like this should happen again I will keep my responses limited to just private messaging. 

Okay, I am done…lol! I think I have said all I need to about the matter. 

-Jessica
…and the dog in question…Ginger!  (sorry I dont have a more recent pic of her...this was taken back in the beginning of March right when she turned 4 months)


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## OzzyAndLilysMom (Mar 9, 2004)

me and ozzy love you loads and atleast it took a few nasty comments to show how valued you are here and who your chi friends are :lol: i hope the original poster thinks twice before typing things in the heat of the moment next time as this is the only nastiness ever on here and i really hope it is the last too

i love all you guys you are the first thing i look at on a mor ning and on a night i love it here :wave:


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## my3angels (Apr 15, 2004)

Thanks a bunch!! Hey I added you to my YIM! Just wanted to let you know while you are online


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