# Brother and sister matings?



## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Don't worry I'm not going to enquire after one of these puppies, but just wondering what the health implications are (if any) with this type of mating?

Barbara x


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## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

That is too close for me. But all the genes of the parents are going to be doubled, so if there whatever faults are there, it will bring them out. Like if there was epilepsy or loose patellas in the mom and dad, the chance of those appearing would be greatly enhanced. Ugh, what kind of breeder would allow that. Must have been a mistake?


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

There's a high chance of them both carrying the same recessive faulty genes (we all carry some) and when two parents carry the same faulty recessive genes any child has a 1 in 4 chance of getting both duff ones (like I did) and the fault is then dominant and presents as a genetic defect. Of course not all conditions are recessive but they'd already present in one parent if it was dominant only.

Basicaly not a bright idea and the more it's done and the closer the relation then the worse the odds are.

A doctor in London once said to my parents "Marry a cousin was it?" they looked at him with disgust and he just said "well your Welsh that's what they do in the valleys isn't it?". Worst thing is he wasn't even joking.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

Oops it posted twice.


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## ~*Jessie*~ (Aug 8, 2007)

I went to high school with a girl whose parents were brother and sister... she was a really slow learner and had Tourette's Syndrome. The last thing I heard about her was that she was still a bagger at the local grocery store. 

I'm completely against brother and sister matings of any kind.


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

No way i don't like it in animals or humans!


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## Harley Ridin Chopper (Nov 8, 2007)

oh my...I would hope it was an accident but obviously it wasn't or the pregnancy could have been terminated right away.


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## Ciarra (May 6, 2008)

I heard its safe with half brothers and half sisters have done it twice with no problems of any kind. They say that is how you preserve and get champions from line breeding.


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## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

i dont agree with it at all and i bet a lot of breeders do it to keep the breed standerd 
well in my opinion id rather have a non breed standered than one of these breed standerds that have been mated to close relations ITS NOT RIGHT!!!


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

Well the kc have banned close matings now ie mother/son father/daughter brother/sister and yes some breeders who have been in the breed years have did the close matings with wonderful turned out dogs but to me i couldn't do it as i dont understand it that much

Half brother/half sister are allowed still if i am right!


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## Adrienne (Apr 3, 2009)

thats not right at all... the babies have high chances of being messed up


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## unchienne (Mar 29, 2009)

~*Jessie*~ said:


> I went to high school with a girl whose parents were brother and sister... she was a really slow learner and had Tourette's Syndrome. The last thing I heard about her was that she was still a bagger at the local grocery store.


That's not saying much as most of my students will probably end up in this career...and do it badly to boot. I'm sorry; I know some might think I'm mean to talk about kids like this, but the attitude towards education in this country is to the point that we're almost deliberately churning out professional grocery baggers on yearly basis. Half of my students can't put together a complete sentence. Others spell "you" as "u" and "that" as "dat" ...and this is on their writing tests.

But you're right...some of it is through inbreeding. Small rural towns like the ones I teach in are notorious for backroom shenanigans. It's some of the kids themselves that tell me they won't date from within town because it might be a brother or sister they don't know about. Heck, I have ten or so students now who aren't sure who their daddy is. With the rising number of special ed students every year (despite decreasing enrollment), I wouldn't be surprised if genetic "oopsies" weren't responsible. 

There would be a chance that the pups would be normal, but some of the defects, such as lowered intelligence, might not be spotted right away. I definitely wouldn't get one.


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## * Bailey & Kahlua's Mom * (Nov 10, 2008)

~*Jessie*~ said:


> I went to high school with a girl whose parents were brother and sister... she was a really slow learner and had Tourette's Syndrome.QUOTE]
> 
> I just felt the need to mention that Tourette's Syndrome is not caused from inbreading... though it can be genetic. I am not sure if that was implied, but I just wanted to clear it up. I have Tourette's Syndrome, although I don't have the vocal "ticks" I do have some involuntary body twitches. For the most part they are not noticeable to others, the only time they become bothersome to me is when I am really stressed. Even then, I can contain them from being noticed for the most part. I also have a very, very slight learning disability. My issues were caused from my mother drinking alcohol during pregnancy. I got lucky, it could have been a lot worse!
> 
> As for inbreeding, I think its against nature and should be avoided.


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## carachi (Mar 20, 2005)

Not a good idea unless you know the lines like the back of your hand.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Brodysmom said:


> Ugh, what kind of breeder would allow that. Must have been a mistake?


A pretty lousy type of person...

The pups were being sold as non KC registered, but the fact that it was a brother and sister mating was omitted. I don't only feel sorry for the poor parents and puppies, but the unsuspecting buyers 

As has been said if it was a true "accident" the bitch would have been given the injection or spayed. Doubt they would spay her, they'll want more litters from the poor girl. 

Talk about "Buyer beware...."

Barbara x


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## lakeshorechihuahuas (Sep 24, 2008)

Years ago I bought an Alaskan Malamute to give to my DH. It started out as a beautiful dog. Well at 6 months old it started having trouble breathing, so we took it to the vet and found out it had congenital heart disease. My vet said it could be from inbreeding. We finally had to put him to sleep because he got so swollen. I called the guy I bought him from and he never admitted it but gave me another dog (mistake) I was young. That dog was mentally challenged and ended up running away. Needless to say inbreeding is not a good idea.


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## roughhouse (Mar 1, 2009)

Linebreeding, when done by very experienced breeders with an extreme amount of knowledge about the breed and the line they are breeding, is a great way to cement a look and breed out any imperfections in the line. I prefer this be done by breeders who are willing to cull defective puppies by either humane euthanasia or early spay/neuter so that the puppies who are carrying the genes are no longer part of the gene pool. Inbreeding of close relations is something that should only be done after extensive line breedings to rid the line of most serious faults and only used sparingly to bring out any other recessive faults that may be lurking. Inbreeding can not create faults, it only brings to the surface ones that are already there and just not expressed. It is a tricky business and should only be done by those with the experience and knowledge to do so.


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## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

omg culling puppies no way this is so so wrong in my opinion they shouldent be breeding this way if there is a chance they need to cull puppies its wrong wrong wrong!!!! this is only my opinion i do not agree with it one bit 

this makes me so sad i would never want to buy or deal with any breeder if this is their views breed standered id rather have non breed standerd if this is they way they deal with things to keep a dog looking to breed 

so wrong IMO


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## roughhouse (Mar 1, 2009)

mazza lovin my chi's said:


> omg culling puppies no way this is so so wrong in my opinion they shouldent be breeding this way if there is a chance they need to cull puppies its wrong wrong wrong!!!! this is only my opinion i do not agree with it one bit
> 
> this makes me so sad i would never want to buy or deal with any breeder if this is their views breed standered id rather have non breed standerd if this is they way they deal with things to keep a dog looking to breed
> 
> so wrong IMO


Culling isn't something that is usually done to keep a dog "looking" to standard. It is done to eradicate undesirable traits. I don't know if it is done with chi breeders but I do know that it is commonly done with die hard, very serious American Pit Bull Terrier breeders. There are many genetic faults in dogs and line breeding/inbreeding is one way that you can bring these traits to the surface very early and stop their progression to spare the rest of the generations the pain of these traits surfacing later on. Culling isn't pleasant to think about but it has been a major factor in the development of many breeds that we love today. This is one of the reasons that breeding is best left up to the professionals. It is a serious undertaking and not for the faint of heart.


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

I can see what you're saying about how pups in the litter would be likely to either present with a condition or to not carry it at all and be fine this litters and generations bred from a pup of that litter that was fine would no longer carry the faults and the risk of the pups having problems in future litters would be less than they would had this not been done. It's interesting and I'm quite sure it has been done a lot to rid breeds of particular problems it's kinds clever really but moraly debatable and culling puppies is a harsh reality of the method. I could never do it but it irradicated problems a breed was very prone to then I can certainly see the reason for it being done.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

I'd rather this doesn't go off topic please and down the culling debate road...

Barbara x


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## Jetta (Mar 26, 2009)

I'd say there's not really much debate I doubt anybody would be comfortable with the idea even if it did have a purpose. It's an interesting thread though I didn't know the reasons behind breeding this way and that it had such a purpose as this.


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## roughhouse (Mar 1, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> I'd rather this doesn't go off topic please and down the culling debate road...
> 
> Barbara x


I don't think I went off topic at all. I addressed the purpose of line/inbreeding, the implications of it and the seriousness of those implications. I merely explained the reasons behind it and how culling plays its place in that practice. I don't think there is any debate there. It is not something I believe any of us would do or think is a good thing. I just relayed the intentions of why it is done.


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## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

Thank you everyone who contributed about the concerns of brother to sister matings, I guess you just confirmed what I thought 

Just have to hope these poor puppies are okay and the idiot who bred them doesn't allow it to happen again, purposefully or otherwise...

It breaks my heart to see owners treating their trusting little Chihuahuas like this, they don't deserve them.

Barbara x


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