# Why breed?



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Okay before everyone gets in a uproar, I am not posting this question to start something...If possible I was hoping to have a mature conversation so those of us that do not believe in breeding and adding to the overpopulation of pets could get a better understanding as to why you breed.

We have had quite a few new members coming on here asking how to whelp a litter or how do you go about breeding as well as a few other new threads pertaining to breeding. This made me decide to ask this question. And hope to get honest answers ;-)

Now outside of showing/agility why breed? 

Now please dont say that you love your pets and that you feel they should have pups because they are such good dogs.

Please dont say that your female dogs need to experience having a litter just once as it is her right or that you dont want to take that away from her as she will miss it.

Please dont say that you have tons of friends that want a pup from you or people ask all the time if you have pups that they want one or that your vet says you should breed.

These are excuses breeders give all the time and they are just not legitimate excues as they are not factual and make no sense at all...


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Yes i agree Yoshismum. Pets shouldnt be bred from. They are loving animals who want to be loved. They dont need to have a litter, pets are pets and in my opinion yes they should be spayed


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Oh Michelle - you forgot one. What about "my dog wants to have sex?" LOL!!!!!! Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I just get so disgusted with people who want to breed and have no clue what they are doing.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

yes its not a "fun" thing for dogs lol!


----------



## mad dog woman (Oct 29, 2006)

like it or not we breed because we love it......we keep in contact with many of our puppies new mums and dads and have made many friends along the way.......all of our dogs are our babies no matter what they look like.........some of our best puppies have gone to homes where they are pets and not show dogs because most people don't want to show......we don't breed from dogs that are not sound........anyone that knows us personally will tell you that our dogs are our life and we are available for chats or advise every day of the year and even through the night in some cases.


----------



## xxxxdeedde (Jul 3, 2008)

Yoshismom said:


> Okay before everyone gets in a uproar, I am not posting this question to start something...If possible I was hoping to have a mature conversation so those of us that do not believe in breeding and adding to the overpopulation of pets could get a better understanding as to why you breed.
> 
> We have had quite a few new members coming on here asking how to whelp a litter or how do you go about breeding as well as a few other new threads pertaining to breeding. This made me decide to ask this question. And hope to get honest answers ;-)
> 
> ...


I agree *PETS SHOULD NOT AND NEVER BE BREED FROM!*


----------



## phoebedog (Sep 19, 2009)

I sort of understand where you are coming from. I will not breed any of my animals but thats not purely because I don't agree with it, part of it is I would be another one of those who don't have a clue about breeding and I wouldn't want to put any of my pets at risk because of my stupidity.

On the other hand if there wasn't any breeders then most of us wouldn't have the wonderful pets we have. I just don't agree with the people that see their pets as money making machines. My brother told me I was mad for having my pug spayed because she could have made me loads of money. My dogs mean more to me than money.

So I thank breeders for my wonderful dogs. 
Just my opinion
Kelly


----------



## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

Yoshismom said:


> *Okay before everyone gets in a uproar, I am not posting this question to start something...If possible I was hoping to have a mature conversation so those of us that do not believe in breeding and adding to the overpopulation of pets could get a better understanding as to why you breed.*
> We have had quite a few new members coming on here asking how to whelp a litter or how do you go about breeding as well as a few other new threads pertaining to breeding. This made me decide to ask this question. And hope to get honest answers ;-)
> 
> *Now outside of showing/agility why breed?
> ...


I would love to have this conversation if I thought it could go & stay open minded & respectful but I don't believe that is possible because there are far too many with such strong opinions...which is fine. I will only say that I respect those who want only the professionals to breed but I also respect those who want to breed responsibly for a "hobby" (I do personally believe those 2 words can go together LOL) but never soley for the purpose of making "extra money" because we all know that doesn't ever happen when breeding properly.

I did want to highlight some interesting statements you made though ONLY because right off the bat I think they would turn people away from posting honestly & not because I want to start a debate.  I know it would be great to have a conversation about this but right in your original post you 1)want to have a conversation about it but in the same breath 2)you say what you don't want to hear when very likely some of those answers are what you would be getting. I hope that made sense...again I do not want to start a debate - I was just pointing out how your post may prevent some people who breed their dogs from posting. I'm not saying I agree with the scenarios you've posted either. I just wanted to point it out.


----------



## mad dog woman (Oct 29, 2006)

MChis said:


> I would love to have this conversation if I thought it could go & stay open minded & respectful but I don't believe that is possible because there are far too many with such strong opinions...which is fine. I will only say that I respect those who want only the professionals to breed but I also respect those who want to breed responsibly for a "hobby" (I do personally believe those 2 words can go together LOL) but never soley for the purpose of making "extra money" because we all know that doesn't ever happen when breeding properly.
> 
> I did want to highlight some interesting statements you made though ONLY because right off the bat I think they would turn people away from posting honestly & not because I want to start a debate.  I know it would be great to have a conversation about this but right in your original post you 1)want to have a conversation about it but in the same breath 2)you say what you don't want to hear when very likely some of those answers are what you would be getting. I hope that made sense...again I do not want to start a debate - I was just pointing out how your post may prevent some people who breed their dogs from posting. I'm not saying I agree with the scenarios you've posted either. I just wanted to point it out.


I wouldn't normally post on this kind of thread either BUT I am extremely happy with what I do and very proud of all my puppies and have nothing to hide. I don't breed to make money as it would be a very unwise thing to do, it can be a very expensive hobby. I just love it and it makes my life worthwhile. I work part time which pays my bills and leaves me plenty of time for my dogs, my partner aklso works part time and our dogs are rarely left at home alone maybe 2-3 hours a month. If I was to give up I would be much richer financially but so much poorer life wise. x


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Okay here are my thoughts and additional questions on what has already been mentioned I didnt post those "Please dont use these excuses" for any reasons other than the fact that they really are not logical or reasonable exuses and was hoping that some of the people who are starting out breeding would read over them and have a "light bulb" moment and realize how silly it all sounds... sorry if it was taken in another way but any time I post I am hoping members can learn from it ;-)


Now to the answers on why. My new questions are.. Do you keep up with all puppy owners and puppies? Do they have to return the puppies to you (stated in the contract) do these puppy owners that rehome, do you keep up with the shuffle of puppies that may go from home to home for various reasons. Do any of your puppies end up in shelters or rescues? This is not a blast by any reason but I am thinking of all the dogs out there that do end up in shelters, euthanized or in rescues. What about your breeders? (Most I know get rid of their dogs when they cant be bred any longer) It breaks my heart to think of people scarring poor dogs by passing them along or why they end up behind bars. It turns my stomach to think of it :-( This being questions for the show breeders as well?

How many litters do you produce and why have so many litters? Why not change your hobby to agility or therapy dogs so you can spend time with them in this manner as a hobby and use the existing dogs you have? From my understanding breeders do not make good pets and what kind of life can it really be to just push out pups all the time?

Now keep in mind that I am not being ugle about this at all, I just wonder if you guys ever think about these things, how do you keep from it happening and does this pertain to your breeding program or not?

BTW, Because this is my thread and I am going to take charge of it and this is a WARNING right now...if anyone gets ugly in here over this I will delete your thread and ask that the other mods do the same if it happens while I am not on. I am dead serious about having a MATURE conversation about these things to help each other understand not to point fingers or to say you are wrong or right. I also ask that others come in and ask questions they are curious about.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

I totally agree i try my hardest to stay in contact with everyone who has a puppy! I have re-homed puppies for families who's circumstances change when they need new homes after them. I bred my girls no more then twice, they are spade then given to a family home near us.


----------



## xxxxdeedde (Jul 3, 2008)

I too agree, I stay in contact with all mine, I have made sure..
A lady bought a dog from me and moved so I spent best part of a year to find out where she was (gosh that sounds stalker'ish) anyway turns out she was too trying to get contact with me and the puppy (I say pup its now a dog) is fine and *spayed as requested.*

I breed a litter once a year, and on the unfortunt events that they are for sale near christmas I hold them back untill middle of Jan
However.. I breed for a purpose.. to improve my lines and show.


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

I would like to know if any breeders do co-ownerships with their puppy buyers and why?


----------



## KayC (May 3, 2005)

I am in close contact with Zoey's breader on FB. It's nice to keep in touch.


----------



## polishprinsezz (Dec 10, 2009)

i decided not to breed because if i was to do it i would want to breed them properly. which means a big job that i do not want to put myself or any animal through on purpose. i am ok with my choice in getting all my animals neutered.


----------



## WeLoveHiro (Apr 14, 2009)

my first dog was a brittany spaniel. they used her to breed, once they finished she was to be given away or taken or put down if they couldnt get rid of her. thankfully my dad decided that we needed our first pet and thus we got her til she died of old age.

for those who give away thier dogs after breeding, doesnt it make you sad or feel bad to do so? do you worry that they may end up in shelters etc? i am just curious.

also is it common practice that a breeder stays in touch with the new owners of thier pups? after i got hiro... i was told to keep in touch and that she would be available for questions etc... that didnt happen. i tried for various reasons to do so. it was pointless...


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Brodysmom said:


> I would like to know if any breeders do co-ownerships with their puppy buyers and why?


I co-own my Great Dane with his breeder. He is my first show dog and actually her contract is not as strict as some. If I finish him she will sign him over and if I neuter him she will sign him over. A lot co-own to make sure that they can legally get their dogs back if they try to breed them to something they do not feel is worthy. I am sure there are other reasons as well. I know some dogs that are so expensive that they have several owners.


----------



## Stark (Jan 13, 2010)

I have SO many opinions on breeding, it's crazy. I won't get into all of it lol. But it's the most irritating and pointless thing in the world to me. I mean, if we didn't have all these irresponsible people in the world breeding their dogs just for fun then we wouldn't have so many homeless animals in shelters. I just don't get it. 30% of all the homeless dogs in the state of California are Chihuahuas. Not even kidding. It's beyond messed up. Unless a person plans on showing their dog in the future, then they should adopt from a shelter. I also don't get why people continuously breed mixes. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with mutts. I love them and in some cases they can be better than purebreds what with the mixed traits and all. But most of the homeless dogs are mutts and there are plenty of them to go around. Breeders need to realize that millions of amazing dogs are killed each day due to overpopulation, and they can blame themselves. Not like they'll ever take responsibility for that. And if people want just a pet, then the shelter is the most perfect place for them to go. 

Oh and not only does breeding add to the overpopulation of dogs, but it also puts your pets at risk. It can be fatal to the mother and the pups And unaltered animals have a higher chance at getting cancer. It's reckless.

:angry4:


----------



## Quinn (Dec 11, 2008)

Stark said:


> Unless a person plans on showing their dog in the future, then they should adopt from a shelter.


I disagree with this statement. Adopting is great, many of my/my families dogs are/have been rescues. 

But at the same time there is nothing wrong with wanting a purebred puppy, even if just for a companion. That is if puppies are purchased from a RESPONSIBLE, REPUTABLE breeder. To me this is not just someone who is breeding who has nice animals that they care for well, regardless of if they do or don't stay in touch with the families. I personally feel that unless you are showing / have working dogs, health test your breeding dogs, know the lines well, as well as obviously caring for your dogs and the puppies and where they end up, being available to you puppy buyers for help, and having contracts etc etc.
Many show dogs don't produce perfect show quality pups for one reason or another, and these dogs go to loving family homes and that is fine. These are the breeders who will take the dog back no matter what.

But to me, those are the only people who should be breeding. If you are breeding for ANY reason other than to BETTER THE BREED you SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING. And unless you know the health of your dogs lines, your particular dog has been health checked for issues relevant to the breed, and has been shown and gotten CH, OR I also understand breeders of certain working breeds who may not be AKC (or whatever kennel for whatever country) showing but the dogs perform their specific job well which is important to the breed then you can't possibly be bettering the breed. Breeding cute dogs to be good pets isn't bettering the breed if your dogs don't fit the standard and you don't know their health.

Sorry if that was some what irrelevant since I wasn't answering any of your questions. But I can't help but get into a breeding debate LOL. I have seen a lot of people wanting to breed lately of this forum and it really gets me going. I can't help but be surprised at how casual people seem to view it.
If you want to experience raising puppies or the miracle of life foster a pregnant dog or a mother with her litter! Don't breed your dog and make her go through that. And people who say well my dog is so nice and cute and will be a good mom. No she wont necessarily be a good mom. Or she might die. Or the pups could be NOTHING like her at all. Not a good reason... 

/End rant...


----------



## Stark (Jan 13, 2010)

Yeah I agree with you Quinn on basically everything you say. But in response to you disagreeing with my comment, have you not noticed that there are so many dogs in shelters that are purebred? My vocational school takes in 4 dogs from our local kill shelter. We train them and help them find homes. Unfortunately with the economy being low and people going to breeders, three of our four dogs had to go back to the shelter and were put to sleep. One was a PUREBRED female English Lab. They were all amazing dogs and would have made fantastic family pets, if only they were given the chance. Nothing's wrong with wanting a purebred dog. But you could very easily find that dog in a shelter needing some lovin'.


----------



## Quinn (Dec 11, 2008)

Yes many dogs in shelters are purebred - and its a damn shame ANY dogs are in shelters. But sometimes people have gone through a lot of heart ache with certain breeds, in example Great Danes who are prone to a lot of problems especially when not bred responsibly, and people don't want to take the risk of taking on a dog who may end up having a ton of problems vs a dogs whose lines they know the health of. Or they want a young pup and can't find one in a shelter, or they want the animal for a certain job / task. For someone who is not in that situation I say go for the rescues! My Bull Terrier, I pulled her from the euth list. No one wanted her because she was "too old" being 6 yrs old was a death sentence for her. She is a WONDERFUL dog (besides being dog fearful/aggressive but that unfortunately is common in the breed anyway). She is not a normal BT in that she is very calm and mild mannered and not destructive. She is AWESOME. But she would not have worked for someone who needed a dog they could raise there way, or to compete in agility, or whatever.
I am totally for adopting, as I said many of my dogs are adopted (not all from shelters some from their "loving" owners before they wound up in a bad home or shelter, or strays, but adopted non the less) I've done volunteer work, foster work, trust me I know how it is. 
But I also 100% stand behind responsible caring breeders, and do not penalize those who choose to buy from them.

Without these breeders we would end up loosing all good quality purebreds, and that would be a damn shame. And as I said not all these pups are show quality and they need homes too. Hence where people wanting companions come in.


----------



## Stark (Jan 13, 2010)

Yes but like I said, if someones just wanting a pet, go to a shelter. Despite what most people think, their perfect dog is waiting for them there. 

And I should have been more specific. I'm okay with the breeders that get their dogs genetically tested, have dogs that are up to breed standard, AKC registered, and are in all honesty doing it to better the breed. It's the people who don't qualify those that I have a problem with. I'm actually planning on buying a German Shepherd pup this spring if I find the perfect breeder. But I'll be doing confirmation AKC showing with it. Otherwise I'd be going to the shelter.


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

On average, most people looking for a dog is looking for a puppy and although you CAN on occasion find a full blooded puppy in a shelter or rescue it is sometimes hard to prove so people want the breed that they want. Being with rescue for as many years I have, it is very frustrating that they do not check a specific breed shelter first BUT they just do not realize they are out there and ofcourse they do not do any research:-( It is frustrating but that is just the way the world is these days. When I have my dogs out whether it be the Chihuahuas, My Great Dane (at a show or otherwise) my Weimaraner or Sheltie if I am approached and get in a conversation about "Oh I love these dogs and always wanted one" I take advantage of these comments and educate people on the breeds and explain to them about breed specific rescues and the positive points to adopting an older puppy or older dog over buying a puppy from a breeder. 

Thanks for keeping that a civil disagreement and voicing your opinions without getting upset. Now hoping to move on so we will hear some more from breeders as we all have the right to voice our opinions and I want this thread to be sort of a civil way of helping the breeders vs nonbreeders vs show breeders to explain and help everyone understand each other ;-)


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Small But Mighty said:


> ...
> 
> I breed a litter once a year, and on the unfortunt events that they are for sale near christmas I hold them back untill middle of Jan
> ...


Definately i will & have not sold puppies around christmas its wrong and a total quarentee that within a month or less their not loved or wanted any more!


----------



## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

OurCheekyChihuahuas said:


> Definately i will & have not sold puppies around christmas its wrong and a total quarentee that within a month or less their not loved or wanted any more!


Total guarantee is strong!! We brought Poppy home on the 28th December - I'd like to think she has arrived to a caring and loving home, and will not be unloved after a month or less!! It was actually a great time for us to get Poppy as the entire family was home and we all got to spend so much time with her.

But our breeder doesn't just sell puppies, she totally vets the home that the pups are going to, she would prefer to keep a pup rather than advertise on epupz and all those sites and not know who she was selling to. I think good breeders always know of good homes wanting pups so don't need to advertise outside the chihuahua associations.

Sorry if I am posting on why breed - and I don't!! But maybe my points are valid in choosing breeders!


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Ok fair enough! But ive had 2-3 pups returned to me over the years like a week after xmas when they're not wanted! Even if theyre nearly 5/6 months old


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Aquarius said:


> Total guarantee is strong!! We brought Poppy home on the 28th December - I'd like to think she has arrived to a caring and loving home, and will not be unloved after a month or less!! It was actually a great time for us to get Poppy as the entire family was home and we all got to spend so much time with her.
> 
> But our breeder doesn't just sell puppies, she totally vets the home that the pups are going to, she would prefer to keep a pup rather than advertise on epupz and all those sites and not know who she was selling to. I think good breeders always know of good homes wanting pups so don't need to advertise outside the chihuahua associations.
> 
> Sorry if I am posting on why breed - and I don't!! But maybe my points are valid in choosing breeders!


Dont apologize, I am not a breeder and I am the one that posted the question ;-) This thread is for anyone who is curious and have questions themselves


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Ok, so I didn't want to touch this topic with a ten foot pole....BUT lol....thats impossible

I have been considering breeding Luna and I am sure i am part of the "seen people wanting to breed"

I am looking over all information and trying to decide if it is something I can do. Can meaning money wise, time wise, if its good for Luna wise, if I can do it safely, can I find enough info about it etc etc....

I don't agree with alot of stuff said, but I do also agree with alot of stuff said. It will be important to keep in touch with homes your puppy goes to. It is important to be willing to take back a puppy if its necessary. It is important to get testing done to make sure the female is healthy enough for it. It is important to make sure she is big enough. I would never give Luna away after she has some litters. She is a pet and I would not throw her away after she pops out a few pups (that aspect makes me sick).

Alot of reasons that are listed in the "I don't want to hear" section are reasons and I don't think they are all bad reasons for everyone. Different situations determine it I think. I am not saying its ok for every tom **** or Harry, don't get me wrong. I just don't see the problem with a responsible person giving it a try. I don't think someones throat should be cut open if they dare to suggest that they love dear little muffy and would like her to have a litter of pups (provided lil muffy is big enough and healthy enough)

I just think its so frowned upon that it makes it a hot debate 

I'm hopping on out of it for now 

No hard feelings. Just good old opinion stating


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

I wanted to briefly touch on one more aspect of it that is not totally thought through, I am just saying its a thought.....

Alot of "breeders" charge so much darned money for these dogs that it makes it so easy for terrible people to bred poor quality dogs and sell them for cheaper and people have no choice but to buy these dogs because the "good" dogs are way too over priced. Now I know that to have a dog you should have money to take care of them.....but seriously some of the prices from "breeders" are absurd. I think poor people should also be able to have the love of a dog and if it were such a great concern about breeding quality and not letting back yard breeders breed wildly....then some lowering of prices should be looked at. I don't mean show dogs, but pets


Also, on another note lol I am curious for those who do breed.....what costs are we looking at? What has to be done? Test wise and stuff for the dog to determine her good health, and costs for pg diet and care? How often will she be seen at the vets during the pregnancy? stuff like that


----------



## Ory&C (Mar 20, 2005)

Tracilea said:


> I wanted to briefly touch on one more aspect of it that is not totally thought through, I am just saying its a thought.....
> 
> Alot of "breeders" charge so much darned money for these dogs that it makes it so easy for terrible people to bred poor quality dogs and sell them for cheaper and people have no choice but to buy these dogs because the "good" dogs are way too over priced. Now I know that to have a dog you should have money to take care of them.....but seriously some of the prices from "breeders" are absurd. I think poor people should also be able to have the love of a dog and if it were such a great concern about breeding quality and not letting back yard breeders breed wildly....then some lowering of prices should be looked at. I don't mean show dogs, but pets


Perhaps the "poor" people could always go and save a lonely soul from the shelter . Just a thought!
I put poor into brackets because no matter where your dog comes from you ALWAYS have to be financially stable enough to support your dog's needs. Vet's bills and dog food cost the same regardless whether your dog comes from a good, reputable breeder or a shelter.


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

I would agree that there are alots of dogs at shelters waiting to be loved, and I would also like to point out that they are not always full bred and more importantly....dogs in shelters do at times have things wrong with them, hense why they are there. Either a medical problem or behavioural problem. I am by no means saying people shouldn't get a dog from a shelter! lol I am just saying its not always the best route for someone who is "poor" as they might incur more vet bills.
Vet bills and food cost the same reguardless, true, but think of how much more you could get for the dog if the dog itself wasn't so expensive 

I'm not saying lets everybody go and breed , I'm just saying that other reasons besides "I want to better the breed" are also good reasons. Because lets face it will we....these dogs are just so darn CUTE!! and maybe many a GOOD breeder got started in it just for that one reason and the experience made them get better at it and then they start breeding to "better" the breed.

I have no "noble" reasons for wanting to breed. I don't have a God complex that says I will change the breed for the better if I let Luna have a few litters. But I will make sure I am responsible about it IF I go ahead with it.
I just hate to see all this neg stuff being said to any who might consider it 

Sorry if I have ruffled anyones feathers  You know I love you all and I have a great deal of respect for alot of you


----------



## Muzby (Jan 28, 2009)

Tracilea said:


> I have been considering breeding Luna and I am sure i am part of the "seen people wanting to breed"


Okay, this is the only reason I will jump in - You are CONSIDERING breeding a: not to standard, dog with aggression issues, from unknown (and admitted POOR) background.

THIS is why chi's these days are so sick, with bad raps. People who care not a whit about health and temperment testing.. just find a cute dog and breed it. :foxes15:

I really feel for this breed and what people are doing to it. My parents used to breed hunting dogs (labs and beagles) non were CKC reg dogs, all we champions in the field. Not once would they consider using a dog who was over sized, or had a history of aggressive behaviour, or came from a rescue situation. It's just NOT DONE. You're supposed to breed to BETTER the breed.. not just because it's fun, or cute, or to let your kids see the miracle of life. Why not bring them to a shelter and let them see millions of dogs (including small ones) being put to sleep before they make it to the adoption floor for being too food aggressive, or aggressive in general.. or just because there are not enough homes already for all the dogs out there (before just making more).

Edit to add: Bettering the breed is the ONLY reason you should breed your dog. That said, I do not think only CKC reg dogs should be bred. There are some good lines out there (say for hunting or herding dogs) that are better healthy and temperment than CKC reg dogs. Unfortunately, the argument can NOT be said for chi's. Just being "cute" is NOT enough to make it okay to breed your dog! Cute doesn't cut it, that is a lame excuse for being selfish. (not calling anyone HERE names, just stating my opinion of breeding for CUTE dogs)


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Well Luna is pretty! Its up to you to breed. but PERSONALLY i hate people breeding their pets!!! sorry but its true, pets arent always the best of quality


----------



## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

OurCheekyChihuahuas said:


> Well Luna is pretty! Its up to you to breed. but PERSONALLY i hate people breeding their pets!!! sorry but its true, pets arent always the best of quality


To be honest, though I am most certainly not advocating breeding from pets...
I so often see better quality pet Chihuahuas, than many of the Chihuahuas being bred from.

Most have never been near a show ring (neither have their owners) and are without doubt pet quality. A few, or even many Champions in a pedigree, doesn't mean a Chihuahua is worthy of breeeding from.

If someone is serious about improving the breed of any dog, then I'd expect them to have purchased their dogs from proven lines and belong to their apppropriate Breed Club.


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

Tracilea said:


> Also, on another note lol I am curious for those who do breed.....what costs are we looking at? What has to be done? Test wise and stuff for the dog to determine her good health, and costs for pg diet and care? How often will she be seen at the vets during the pregnancy? stuff like that


I wasn't going to get into this thread. Breeding can be an emotional topic. But I will have a go anyway .... And Tracilea, this isn't necessarily directed at you. 

I am not anti-breeding. But I am pro breeding smart. To me that means breeding to improve the breed, not just to add more Chihuahua's to the world. Go to petfinder and put in Chihuahua's in your zip code. In my part of the country, there are hundreds of homeless Chi's. They are a dime a dozen sadly. With so many people breeding their "pets" because they think they are "cute", the shelters are absolutely overloaded with homeless Chihuahua's. I just looked up Chi's at my local shelter. There are 13 there today. Very sad.

I believe that only dogs that are going to better our breed should be bred. So how do you know if your dog is going to make a contribution to the breed? I believe by showing your dog in conformation. If you can't do that, at least get some opinions from show breeders in your area. Chi's are popular. There are reputable show breeders in every state. Go to akc.org and look up Chi Clubs or all-breed clubs. Or if you are in another country, go to your kennel club registry and look up the same information there. Get a referral to a conformation class and get some opinions on your dog. Is it worthy of being bred? Will it improve the breed? Does it MEET THE STANDARD. That means in size, head shape, body conformation, temperament. Buyers are looking for dogs that look like chihuahua's and meet the standard. 

Then the matter of the stud dog comes up. Where are you going to find one? You will want a dog that has proved itself in the show ring, a champion, if you want to find a good market for puppies. Most people are not looking for a garden variety pet. If you're going to breed, do it right. Do it to improve the breed. That means finding a dog that compliments your bitch. He should be a champion with a track record of producing quality puppies. A reputable stud dog owner should be able to evaluate your bitch and let you know if she is breeding quality or not. That is another avenue to investigate or pursue. A reputable stud dog owner will require, at the very least, a brucellosis test on any bitch bred to her dog. This is another cost to factor in.

Many people say they just want to breed "pets". I say WHY. There are dozens of Chi's in shelters or available in your local newspaper. Why add to it? Healthy, pedigreed Chihauhua's are put to death in shelters every day. 

Then there is health. The bare minimums for a reputable breeder would be CERF certification on eyes, hearts,and patella and seizure free. The Chihuahua Club of America recommends that these tests be done before breeding: CERF test for eye diseases, CARDIAC certification to test for heart disease, and PATELLAS (checking knees for luxation which is a genetic disease). These health certifications should be done not just the breeding pair, but back in the pedigree as far as you can trace. We don't need more chihuahua's with seizures or hydrocephalus, PRA or SARDS eye problems/blindness, heart failure, or patella luxation. Here's a thread which references this topic of health testing:

http://www.chihuahua-people.com/showthread.php?t=47599

Next, are you prepared for a c-section? Many Chi's end up having sections from uterine dystocia. Can you take off several weeks from work to hand feed a litter if the mother can't or won't take care of the pups? 

Do you have a mentor? Someone who can help you through each step of the way? If not, I'd say to take a pass. 

Breeding is something that should be carefully considered by people who are intent on improving our breed. NOT to be undertaken lightly. Everyone thinks their dog is "cute" and having puppies sounds like it might be fun. But it can be heartbreaking and expensive, even deadly. 

Unless your girl is a champion and from a long line of champions, who has health tested eyes, heart and knees, with a rock solid temperament, and you have a mentor who can help you and guide you every step of the way..... then I'd say to leave the breeding to the experts and just enjoy your girl. 

An unspayed girl runs a very high risk of pyometra, so I'd suggest having her spayed to prevent cancer and future problems.

Costs can run several hundred if everything goes RIGHT. An unexpected c-section can run $500. One sick puppy can end up costing a lot to treat and there goes any profit you might have made. Breeding doesn't make money. To do it right costs money. 

Why subject a nice family pet to that? I say enjoy her for the nice pet she is and leave the breeding to the experts.

Just my opinion. Because I couldn't keep my mouth shut.


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Very well said Brodysmom


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Tracilea said:


> I wanted to briefly touch on one more aspect of it that is not totally thought through, I am just saying its a thought.....
> 
> Alot of "breeders" charge so much darned money for these dogs that it makes it so easy for terrible people to bred poor quality dogs and sell them for cheaper and people have no choice but to buy these dogs because the "good" dogs are way too over priced. Now I know that to have a dog you should have money to take care of them.....but seriously some of the prices from "breeders" are absurd. I think poor people should also be able to have the love of a dog and if it were such a great concern about breeding quality and not letting back yard breeders breed wildly....then some lowering of prices should be looked at. I don't mean show dogs, but pets
> 
> ...


I wanted to address what you said about the pricey pups and "poor" people. As I mentioned in several threads lately, A truly responsible breeder breeds to show and will only keep show pups and sale a show pup for a hefty price but will lower the price for a well bred companion pup. I have even seen them give them away for free to the right and trusted home ;-)

Also the poor prices you are talking about are usually prices that come from a breeder that is breeding for the money and the reason they are priced so low is due to they dont care about the bitch and do not health test and quite frankly probably never take them to the vet, groom them, etc... These poor prices will end up with a health issue or sometimes come to the new owners sick and then you have a dog that has to be surrendered to the vet or rescue because they are sick and because the owner is "poor" they can not handle the financial part of keeping up a dog.
Believe me I have first hand experience with the heartache and money situation a byb dog can cause. 

Because I have experienced this first hand I so feel the need to try to educate so noone else will fall to the heartache and financial turmoil that can come with a poorly bred puppy. The saying you get what you pay for is so true even in pets. Just trying to help


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I also wanted to add that we are going to do what we want to do and we tend to follow our hearts and that is fine. I followed my heart with both of my Chi's already knowing what I knew but I did however go into it eyes wide open and knew what could be the outcome. I just want everyone to know that when you make that choice even knowing it could be a bad choice it is our choice and to know what you may be getting yourself into.


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> To be honest, though I am most certainly not advocating breeding from pets...
> I so often see better quality pet Chihuahuas, than many of the Chihuahuas being bred from.
> 
> Most have never been near a show ring (neither have their owners) and are without doubt pet quality. A few, or even many Champions in a pedigree, doesn't mean a Chihuahua is worthy of breeeding from.
> ...


ah yes but i said PERSONALLY


----------



## rache (Nov 10, 2009)

I to agree with Brodysmom, leave it to the experts.


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm so sorry, I don't understand the comment of PETs should not be bred. I mean, if you are a breeder, I HOPE your breeding stock ARE your pets, or else what else are they? If they are not your pet then what is it? A puppy mill? I don't get it.

I mean I know i'm new here but this is not something I take lightly and I think there is nothing wrong with breeding for the betterment of the breed for people that want pets.

Reputable breeders are NOT to blame for the overpopulation of dogs in shelters and puppy mills.

Do some research you will see.


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Small But Mighty said:


> I too agree, I stay in contact with all mine, I have made sure..
> A lady bought a dog from me and moved so I spent best part of a year to find out where she was (gosh that sounds stalker'ish) anyway turns out she was too trying to get contact with me and the puppy (I say pup its now a dog) is fine and *spayed as requested.*
> 
> I breed a litter once a year, and on the unfortunt events that they are for sale near christmas I hold them back untill middle of Jan
> However.. I breed for a purpose.. to improve my lines and show.


What a wonderful idea about holding Christmas pups back until Jan


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

I would like to state two things....first, when i said about Luna coming from a bad home, I did not mean there was anything wrong with the pups persay, I meant it was not a nice clean looking home and there was a pee scent as the pee pad was directly at the opening of the cage and it was in need of a serious change.
Two, Luna is not an aggressive dog as I have seen, It was my handling of her that was wrong because i was not used to dealing with a pup who was more dominent as opposed to my first two who are very laid back
Actually I have 3 things to state,
three, I am bowing out of the discussion before it gets more hurtful....


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

PS....I forgot to add that I did not mean a dog should be bred because its cute, I think I was just saying it was not he WORST reason in the world


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

TinyGiant said:


> I'm so sorry, I don't understand the comment of PETs should not be bred. I mean, if you are a breeder, I HOPE your breeding stock ARE your pets, or else what else are they? If they are not your pet then what is it? A puppy mill? I don't get it.
> 
> I mean I know i'm new here but this is not something I take lightly and I think there is nothing wrong with breeding for the betterment of the breed for people that want pets.
> 
> ...


Pet as in PET QUALITY. There are pet quality dogs (non-breeding quality) and there are BREEDING QUALITY dogs (health tested from show lines and/or finished champions). There is a huge difference between a pet quality Chihuahua and a breeding quality/show Chihuahua. 

If you have researched for 8 years.... I would assume you knew that?

Of course a reputable breeder loves her breeding stock as pets. And a reputable breeder will have a contract stipulating that, for ANY REASON during the life of the dogs she has bred, they need to be rehomed - she will take them back. So you are right... a reputable breeder who is willing and able and contractually bound to take back any of the dogs she has bred will not have dogs showing up in shelters. There are exceptions of course. But breeders who are reputable care about their dogs for their lifetime. They brought them into this world. They feel responsible for what happens to them.


----------



## Aquarius (May 8, 2009)

Can we all just agree that this thread is not to point fingers at individuals. 

This thread is for discussion on breeding in general, Tracilea has some valid points in the discussion, so please do keep posting


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Brodysmom said:


> Pet as in PET QUALITY. There are pet quality dogs (non-breeding quality) and there are BREEDING QUALITY dogs (health tested from show lines and/or finished champions). There is a huge difference between a pet quality Chihuahua and a breeding quality/show Chihuahua.
> 
> If you have researched for 8 years.... I would assume you knew that?
> 
> Of course a reputable breeder loves her breeding stock as pets. And a reputable breeder will have a contract stipulating that, for ANY REASON during the life of the dogs she has bred, they need to be rehomed - she will take them back. So you are right... a reputable breeder who is willing and able and contractually bound to take back any of the dogs she has bred will not have dogs showing up in shelters. There are exceptions of course. But breeders who are reputable care about their dogs for their lifetime. They brought them into this world. They feel responsible for what happens to them.



Thank you! Ok that clears that up for me. I didn't realize she ment pet quality! PP just said don't breed your pets and I was like what! Because I plan on keeping my little girl for her lifetime. That's why I'm looking for the perfect one and not rushing into it.


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Yes please do keep this nice! 

Tracilea I am sorry this became hurtful to you and I for one didnt mean for it to sound hurtful from my statements. I was just trying to clarify things. If you do decide that breeding is right for you then please stick around and learn as much as possible as this forum is full of information that will help you and I am sure there are members here that wouldnt mind sharing their knowledge ;-)


----------



## Muzby (Jan 28, 2009)

I wasn't meaning to be hurtful either, just reacting to a single situation that reminds me of many others I have seen. People will do what they will. Will I hate someone? No. Will I hate that dog or those pups? No! 

Heck, Luna is close enough that maybe I will fall in love with a pup and get it! LOL I just state my opinion.. sorry if it came out wrong. :'(


----------



## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

Yoshismom said:


> Yes please do keep this nice!
> 
> Tracilea I am sorry this became hurtful to you and I for one didnt mean for it to sound hurtful from my statements. I was just trying to clarify things. If you do decide that breeding is right for you then please stick around and learn as much as possible as this forum is full of information that will help you and I am sure there are members here that wouldnt mind sharing their knowledge ;-)


i would not feel comfortable posting anything about breeding on this forum if or when i wish to do as tooo much bashing thats all i have to say on this thread


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

~*Mandy*~ said:


> i would not feel comfortable posting anything about breeding on this forum if or when i wish to do as tooo much bashing thats all i have to say on this thread


The whole reason I came to this board was because I thought it was a place that breeders could chat and help each other out. I don't know why I thought that but I see I was wrong. Is there any place like that?

I mean I still like it here though! Don't get me wrong.


----------



## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

~*Mandy*~ said:


> i would not feel comfortable posting anything about breeding on this forum if or when i wish to do as tooo much bashing thats all i have to say on this thread


Too many people breeding for the wrong reasons


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

TinyGiant said:


> The whole reason I came to this board was because I thought it was a place that breeders could chat and help each other out. I don't know why I thought that but I see I was wrong. Is there any place like that?
> 
> I mean I still like it here though! Don't get me wrong.


I am not sure if that place exists or not? It would have to be a private forum where they just allowed people that believe in the same things I guess. The thing about forums is that everyone has their own beliefs and opinions and most are very passionate about them ;-)


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Rosiesmum said:


> Too many people breeding for the wrong reasons


That is true, but there are plenty that are doing it for the right reasons too.


----------



## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

TinyGiant said:


> The whole reason I came to this board was because I thought it was a place that breeders could chat and help each other out. I don't know why I thought that but I see I was wrong. Is there any place like that?
> 
> I mean I still like it here though! Don't get me wrong.


i agree too many different opinions love seeing all the chis but wont get into these disscutions as if you want too breed your seen as a bad chi owner and byb so on and so on


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Yoshismom said:


> I am not sure if that place exists or not? It would have to be a private forum where they just allowed people that believe in the same things I guess. The thing about forums is that everyone has their own beliefs and opinions and most are very passionate about them ;-)


Also so true, and I love this board already and will come every day to talk about one of my most fav things, sweet little chihuahua's.


----------



## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

TinyGiant said:


> That is true, but there are plenty that are doing it for the right reasons too.


Yes, go to The British Chihuahua Club Site 

x


----------



## Tracilea (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks to everyone showing their support  
I forgot to mention also, that here where I live, thee are not chihuahua's in shelters and IF my some RARE chance they are, they are snapped up faster then you can believe, believe me because i searched for MONTHS at the shelters for a chihuahua
Also, I am still bowing out of this discussion , it is not worth the hurt to me. I realize we are all passionate about these lil critters and I would rather keep my breeding opinions to myself then have things go too far and lose the board as a place I love


----------



## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

Tracilea said:


> Thanks to everyone showing their support
> I forgot to mention also, that here where I live, thee are not chihuahua's in shelters and IF my some RARE chance they are, they are snapped up faster then you can believe, believe me because i searched for MONTHS at the shelters for a chihuahua
> Also, I am still bowing out of this discussion , it is not worth the hurt to me. I realize we are all passionate about these lil critters and I would rather keep my breeding opinions to myself then have things go too far and lose the board as a place I love


i dont blame you hunni mee too


----------



## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

As always, very sadly, too many backyarders...Too few permanent pet (non breediing) homes for Chihuahuas 

x


----------



## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

yes babs we get the point god lol


----------



## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

~*Mandy*~ said:


> yes babs we get your point lol


Are you still planning to breed your pets mand?
x


----------



## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes !!!!!!!!! And i dont care what you have to say about it if and when i do its my decision ok thank you and bye hehehe


----------



## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

~*Mandy*~ said:


> Yes !!!!!!!!! And i dont care what you have to say about it if and when i do its my decicion ok thank you and bye hehehe


Poor dogs...


----------



## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

They are well loved and looked after if i do i have a mentor and my vet behind me it will be done with the greatest of care for my dogs that i love why poor dogs ??? Prob better cared for than yours my dear i knew this would happen and i knew you would be in amongst it you just cant help yourself
im bowing out of this thread now as ive nothing more to say to u about it bye bye and take care babs go and look after your poor doggies lol


----------



## Rosiesmum (Oct 14, 2007)

~*Mandy*~ said:


> go and look after your poor doggies lol


That unlike yours have to justify themselves as breeders...

My dogs are neutered and simply pets  
x


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

~*Mandy*~ said:


> *They are well loved and looked after if i do i have a mentor and my vet behind me it will be done with the greatest of care *for my dogs that i love why poor dogs ??? Prob better cared for than yours my dear i knew this would happen and i knew you would be in amongst it you just cant help yourself
> im bowing out of this thread now as ive nothing more to say to u about it bye bye and take care babs go and look after your poor doggies lol


That's good hun. BYB's rush into it without a care in the world, buying the cheapest dogs and don't give a crap about health or standards. There are differences.


----------



## Stark (Jan 13, 2010)

My friend has 5 mixes that have Jack Russell, Pomeranian, and Dachshund in them. They don't have any of them neutered. And now her six month old pup is already pregnant. And even worse, it's by the poor dog's dad. They asked me to take her, but my parents won't allow it. I wish I could, cause now my friends dad is taking her to the shelter.  It's irresponsible people like this that I can't stand.


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Stark said:


> My friend has 5 mixes that have Jack Russell, Pomeranian, and Dachshund in them. They don't have any of them neutered. And now her six month old pup is already pregnant. And even worse, it's by the poor dog's dad. They asked me to take her, but my parents won't allow it. I wish I could, cause now my friends dad is taking her to the shelter.  It's irresponsible people like this that I can't stand.


:foxes15:


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

Yes its sad, the same thing is going on with my neighbors in front of me. They got a cute male mix of some kind that got way bigger than they expected. Then they bought a bitch and didnt have her spayed and left the poor soul in a small cage outside their door every night while bringing the male in. This while she was a puppy (all alone in a cage :-( ) then they finally started letting her run free and they have another shepherd mix that was intact and they both raped her she was much smaller than the both of them and now she has 2 puppies that look exactly like each of the fathers (it is so strange as they are perfect duplicates) now I am sure they will leave all intact and I am not sure if the two new ones are females or males? :-(


----------



## Amanda Kennedy (Nov 5, 2008)

the word mongrel is a horrible word in its self, it is rarely used now to describe any mixed breed, as it was used to describe pups where the fathers origin was unknown. on the thread the pups father was known.
mongrel was also used in australia by colonials (sp( to children fathered by servicemen to aboriginal mothers and is a very derogitry term

people who use this word freely should find out what it means before minimising people


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

amandagalway said:


> the word mongrel is a horrible word in its self, it is rarely used now to describe any mixed breed, as it was used to describe pups where the fathers origin was unknown. on this thread the pus father was known.
> mongrel was also used in australia by colonials (sp( to children fathered by servicemen to aboriginal mothers and is a very derogitry term
> 
> people who use this word freely should find out what it means before minimising people


true point! Like the JRT x Chi puppies ive put on the forum. I know who the dad is a i was with her nearly all the time from mating to whelping this week!


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

~*Mandy*~ said:


> They are well loved and looked after if i do i have a mentor and my vet behind me it will be done with the greatest of care for my dogs that i love why poor dogs ??? Prob better cared for than yours my dear i knew this would happen and i knew you would be in amongst it you just cant help yourself
> im bowing out of this thread now as ive nothing more to say to u about it bye bye and take care babs go and look after your poor doggies lol


Good luck. Keep in contact with your vets if youre new! WOW i see im not the only one on here that gets slatted lol!


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Rosiesmum said:


> That unlike yours have to justify themselves as breeders...
> 
> My dogs are neutered and simply pets
> x



Well if their neutered and pets. why do you say so much about breeding? You obv havent bred yours so cant you stop gunning people about breeding (unless its obv the wrong option), stop slatting everyone and leave everyone alone?


----------



## MChis (Oct 13, 2009)

Wow, I'm speechless reading this thread. I've been going back & forth with myself about if I wanted to reply to this thread. I almost did when the OP said they'd delete it if it started getting nasty but it seems (to me) that the point of getting nasty has come & gone.  

I don't think people realize not everywhere in the world is over run by dogs where they are a dime a dozen. We have shelters where I live, but there is very very rarely Chi's (or other small dogs) that come in. And if there were - they are snatched up in no time! Our specific area has NO kill shelters that I know of. The dogs are well cared for (by volunteers & donations) & while there are some that take a while to find a home...usually they all do. 

From what I've read - if you want to show dogs there have only been "all breed" shows in our state - not breed specific. I would LOVE to get into showing and learn more about Chis from a show point of view but it's just not big thing where I live. I'd have to travel out of state which isn't feasable for me right now with my daughters in school, etc. Saying that, we have zero breeders in our state through the AKC website....or in the states surrounding us! If it wasn't for "BYB's" (as many here would call them even if they are registered, well bred dogs) there would be no Chihuahua's in my part of the country. And they are high demand! I understand that CA is overrun by Chi's & I am so happy they have started shipping them over to the East coast. I only wish more were lucky enough to be brought over. 

No matter what anyone says on this board - there is a HUGE difference in someone breeding responsibly (gathering all the knowledge they can, having a breeder mentor & a vet behind them, having emergency funds, homes ready for the pups, a contract in order to keep in touch with you after pups are in new homes & agreeing to take them back in if it doens't work out, etc) - than someone buying cheap unregistered pups & breeding w/o any knowledge, money or care where the pups go - as long as you get your cash in hand when they leave. HUGE difference.

I think everyone on this board needs to be a little more open minded & realize where you live may not necessarily be the same as where others live. Being where I live & how uncommon Chi's are - if I was living on the west coast of the US & had homeless Chihuahuas at every corner. I would think anyone would be crazy to even think about breeding so yes, I can see where some strong opinions come from. But again...it's not like that everywhere.

I don't think it is fair to blame "hobby breeders" for the over population of dogs in shelters. What about blaming the folks who adopt dogs w/o researching the breed, are unable to afford them & who don't have the time/patience who just find the easy way is to dump them at the shelter? People who support puppy mills by thinking they are getting a quality dog from a pet store? Those people who only want a pet, yet allow their intact dog to roam the neighborhood & impregnant (or get impregnated) & give the pups away to whoever wants them (again, only to have them end up in a shelter because no research was done by the people taking the pups in)? 

I would think those who have such strong opinions need to to better use their energy in educating those who don't know about puppy mills/pet store relation, about the proper way of choosing an appropriate dog for their family or about how much work & money truly goes into breeding responsibly. All three of these things many MANY people innocently do not understand & simply need to be educated. Granted, you do have "BYB's" who are irresponsible & don't care about their dogs & puppies & just do it for the money. But please do not group those together with those who truly care about the process, their dogs (and puppies) and go in it well educated & prepared...


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

Heather.

Very well said.


----------



## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

heather i couldent have put it better myself x


----------



## Ciarra (May 6, 2008)

Havent wanted to reply on this thread. Have been watching the last few days. I have been called a puppymill, a byb on this site. And also I was told on a CC site I was banned from for being a breeder. "That if I had a soul, I would fix my dogs and stop breeding them." 

I consider myself a Hobby Breeder, all my dogs are KC registered. 2 are Studs. 1 is a pup from a previous litter. 

But When I breed, I make sure I have the Vets ok before anything happens. Plus I make sure we are stable to be able to afford a litter. Because whelping and weaning a litter of puppies isnt cheap. Also I make sure I have people on a waiting list for a couple months and I do vet references. Also I do an application process. So I know where my puppies are going. Also I have a 2 year health guarantee. Also if they no longer want the puppy. I want it back and will place it in a new home. with no fee. PLus I only offer papers, once I have papers signed by the vet stating that the puppy has been fixed. 

I would love to get into Showing, since I have a show quality Chinese Crested. But Showing isnt cheap. I believe one day, once were done having kids and they are older. I will start my show career. But intill then I will just be a hobby breeder that has a litter every couple years. 

Also when it came to breeding, I didnt think one day. "Oh I should let my dogs tie, it would be fun." No I had 2 mentors. 1 being a Rough and Short coat Collie, Who shows and rarely breeds. She hasnt had a litter since 04. My Second Mentor is a retired Show breeder. And has been breeding and showing for over 15 years. She taught me everything about breeding and I whelped a few litters side by side with her. So before I started, I would know what to do. Once I did it alone. 

Some people do see breeding as a money maker, but for the people who put their heart and soul into its not a money maker. And sadly people have to learn the hard way. and put their pets thru a pregnancy that never should have happened. And then puppies are born that shouldnt have been. I hate seeing all these pups on the buyers guide and craigslist. 

*A BREEDER'S TALE.* 

*I love my little puppy, he makes my house a home,
He always is my best friend, I never feel alone.
He makes me smile, he makes me laugh, he fills my heart with love,
Did some breeder breed him? Was he sent from heaven above? 

I've never been a breeder, or seen life through their eyes
I hold my little puppy, just sit and criticise.
I've never know their anguish, I've never felt their pain,
The caring of their charges, through snow or wind or rain. 

I've never waited all night long for puppies to be born,
The stress and trepidation when they're still not there by dawn.....
I've never felt the heartache of a little life in my hands,
A darling little puppy who weighs just 60 grams !! 

Should you do this instead of that? Or just pray to God?
Alone you fight, and hope one day he'll grow into a dog.
Bring joy to another being and make a house a home.
You know it's all just up to you, you fight this fight alone. 

Formula, bottle, heating pads you've got to get this right,
Two hourly feeds for this little mite throughout the day and night.
In your heart you know it, you'll surely lose the fight
To save this little baby, but God willing, you just might.... 

Day one he's in there fighting, you say a silent prayer,
Day two and three he's doing well, with lots of loving care
Day four and five - he's still alive your hopes soar to the heavens!
Day six he slips away again, dies in your hands day seven. 

You take this little angel and bury him alone,
With aching heart and burning tears, (and an exhausted groan),
You ask yourself, Why do this? Why suffer all the pain?
But see the joy that puppies bring - it really self explains! 

So, when you think of breeders and label them with "greed"
Think what they sometimes endure to fill another's need
And when you buy a puppy, with pounds and pence you part.
You only pay with money........ 

We pay with our hearts.*

As a breeder, I live by this. Every day, and every Litter that is born and everyone I whelp.


----------



## Terri (Aug 21, 2009)

Wow! I agree folk who havent done their research or dont have any help should rethink about breeding.
Also if they have to watch the pennies.
Can i just say though, there is nothing poor about Mandy's dogs.
Folk need to quit attacking and assuming they know everythin!
One other thing to think about is, experts had to start somewhere too. 
Again i am not sayin everyone should do it.

A couple of threads i saw here recently you could tell they had no clue, and seemd they were looking for step by step instructions. 
That bothers most people l think.


----------



## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

i totally agree with you ciarra i have thought about this and been working and learning from my vet louise and 2 mentors honeys breeder lorraine and romeos breeder ann so i havent just rushed into it i have waited till i have the neccisary cash behind me for any vet bills of emergancies my vet has outlined everything that could occur and priced it for me and she goes for a check again on monday and to get her boosters we will have another chat about it ive been reading up like mad there is totally a differece than someone that sticks there 2 dogs together to tie without thinking and preparing for it

your poem is so true and beautiful


----------



## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

thanks terri as you know my dogs get the best of everything hun and are so well loved and rule the roost sometimes thanks for your kind words hun from someone who knows and seen how my dogs are treated xxx


----------



## Terri (Aug 21, 2009)

Your very welcome Mandy hon, just stating a fact.
XXX


----------



## Brodysmom (Jan 8, 2009)

~*Mandy*~ said:


> thanks terri as you know my ddogs get the best of everything hun ansd areso well loved and rule the roost somtime thanks for your kind words hun from someone who knows and seen how my dogs are treated xxx


Mandy, I would never lump you in with irresponsible breeders and I hope you didn't think that I was. Your dogs are very well bred, I have seen their pedigrees, and are bred to the standard. You have done your research and are doing things in the right way. Your dogs are most certainly extremely well looked after!  I think you are very responsible and I would be the first to line up to adopt a puppy from you.


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

First of all yes, sadly this thread did get out of hand and I have dealt with the problem so please drop that. 

I truly just wanted to know why people breed and it is my opinion after working in rescue and going through some poorly bred heart aches myself is that ALL breeders contribute to the overpopulation of pets. When I say all I also mean show breeders but at least they do try to keep track and manage their dogs. Also rescues will ship dogs even overseas to areas that do not have an overflow of dogs so they can help each other in rehoming. I heard the other day that a rescue was shipping small dogs to a place in Canada because they didnt have small dogs there just large dogs. Well I have a friend that runs a HUGE rescue in Canada and knows everything about the organizations there and said that they were not hurting for small dogs and had know idea where that came from?? Dont know why but just through that in there.

Heather...an "All breed show" is a show where they have all breeds but they will have both LC and SC Chihuahuas in the ring at its on time and there will be plenty of breeders ring side. The only time you will find just a specific breed in the ring for a weekend or day is when they have specialty and those only occur in certain areas and certain times of the year. So when we say go to a dog show we mean an "All breed show" If you look up the term it will explain to you that all the breeds are there and they have their own times in the ring throughout the day ;-).

As for the people that do not educate themselves before buying an animal and then give it up..Absolutely they are to blame to. I would also like to add that people who have a dog until they get old and surrender them so they can get a new puppy add to the population and I personally feel they are dispicable and heartless and it happens more than you would think. Or the people that abuses their animals that you have to go in and seize them so ofcourse they end up in rescue. The animals that people cannot afford in the first place so they end up being surrendered to a vet and then placed in a rescue or just dropped off at a rescue or shelter at the first sign of health issues. I have seen it all and it is heartbreaking and we that see these things are very passionate about trying to educate and help people understand how they are contributing to it. I realize that it isnt as bad everywhere but believe me the potential is there and I have been told that places around the world that have never had this problem is seeing signs of their shelters filling up :-(

When I started this thread I was doing so to let the people that have know idea what they are getting themselves into and how it can add to the damage that is already being done. I realize that their are breeder's here that are going to breed whether we like it or not. They have their reasons and thats what they do. I did want a better understanding of that and was hoping those on the board like myself would also be able to understand it better and then maybe there wouldnt be so many arguments. But I really had hoped that some of the new people coming here that do not have a clue could be persuaded not to breed and to just love their dogs. I hear people tell me all the time that they are learning all they can and researching things but yet they dont know the simplest things about the breed or how to breed? (Not pointing fingers at any particular person) this happens in my day to day life. I know people that breed that cant spell their breeds name or cant pronounce them? I know of a rescue in my area where people stand out in front of a store every Saturday to help find animals home but yet when I stopped by with Yoshi (after explaining how bad his conformation is and how horrible the breeder he came from was) she asked if she could breed her bitch to him?!?! Things like that drive me crazy :-( Btw...both Yoshi and Chibi are neutered and so is my Weim and Sheltie. My only intact dog is my Great Dane which I show and when/If he finishes I do not plan on breeding.

You guys are right, this discussion has gotten out of hand but I always try to be fair and let everyone have their own say and then defend themselves if need be.


----------



## TinyGiant (Jan 20, 2010)

OMG Michelle, ummm what did you say to that lady outside of the pet store when she asked you that?!!


----------



## Yoshismom (Jul 6, 2005)

I told her "He has been neutered due to being poorly bred and should not be bred?" and looked at her shocked then walked away, LOL!


----------



## Mandy (Jan 16, 2009)

Brodysmom said:


> Mandy, I would never lump you in with irresponsible breeders and I hope you didn't think that I was. Your dogs are very well bred, I have seen their pedigrees, and are bred to the standard. You have done your research and are doing things in the right way. Your dogs are most certainly extremely well looked after!  I think you are very responsible and I would be the first to line up to adopt a puppy from you.


thank you for your kind words tracey xxxxx


----------



## amyhedd (Aug 6, 2009)

I agree with a lot that was said in here.. on BOTH sides. If a breader knows what they are doing and has help and only lets pups to good homes etc i think it is perfectly fine, how else would we have our babies if no one bred dogs ?!
BUT i agree there are a lot of people that should not be breeding, and to be honest i think they should be put in prison, some of the conditions in the home.. the way the puppies and dogs are treated, and once they no longer breed they get tossed aside, i think that is for sure animal cruelty and should be stopped.Its a shame this duscussion got so heated, no one in here should be ridiculed for posting their opinion, we are all entitled to do so without putting others down  xxx


----------



## OurCheekyChihuahuas (Nov 18, 2009)

Very True! Everyone is intitled to their OWN opinion


----------



## Stark (Jan 13, 2010)

Yoshismom, I'm happy you posted this thread in the first place, even though it wasn't very friendly at times. I think it well that people got to get their opinions voiced. And sometimes I think it's healthy to have a small bickerment over your beliefs. Not that insulting people is right, it definitely isn't and it shouldn't have come to that. But it was interesting reading peoples views, despite how much myself and others may disagree with them; vice versa.


----------



## 3l3ctric (Apr 5, 2009)

I don't think it should be surprising that people have strong opinions. If you breed dogs, you are taking chances with lives- so clearly people who care about animals want it to be done correctly (whatever your definition of "correctly" is).


----------

