# Daiseys report is here



## Guest (Jul 14, 2008)

OK, some I dont QUITE understand, but here is what the report says:


"Daisey was refered to me to assess the abnormality in the frontal bones of her skull. She is very slow with learning and seems to be generally a bit lethargic. Examination confirmed the presence of a small soft area in the midline of the frontal bones.

MRI of the skull showed no abnormalities of the brain tissues themselves. Mild to moderate dialtion of all four ventricles was seen with mild protrusion of the cerebellar tonsils into the foramen magnum. A small lesion of thin frontal bone was seen on MRI at the same place as could be palpatated. This lesion seemed to contain a thin layer of bone with two small ( 2-3mm) voids in this bone.

Her frontal bone abnormailty does in my opinion not explain her symptoms. However the mild to moderate hydrocephalus could explain these symptoms . Daiseys abnormalities look very much like the abnormalities we see in cavaliers with chiari related problems. I would advise no treatment at this stage. Prednisolone can be used in cases which show significant neck pain."

And the letter was sigend by Gerard, whom I think Denise might know.


So all in all part good and bad news.
I was suprised at the mention of hydrocephalus, as my husband said he thought they said she DIDNT have this, but he must have misunderstood.

I have no idea what Chiari is, and dont fully understand all the talk about the bones etc.

But, without being horrible to my little princess, she is quite thick at times and doesnt learn fast at all, we're still potty training, and she doesnt understand the sit command either yet, and we've had her more than long enough to have taught her it.

But at the end of the days he is still my baby girl


Thanks to everyone who has been thinking of us and asking how she is, it means a lot to me. I know sometimes I dont come online everyday, but I do think of you all a lot, and have come to regard many of you as friends.

NOw I look forward to some kind souls telling me what it all means lol


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## cocopuff (Mar 27, 2004)

Sorry, I can't help you with what this mean but my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2008)

Thaks cocopuff. It's nice to know people are thinking of us.


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

I've heard of the condition in Cavaliers, called Syringomyelia, I used to be quite involved with the cavalier breed clubs when I was younger, and the condition was mentioned to me when I took Zero to Cavalier training (they let me take them so they could socialise). I think I was told it was something to do with the spinal fluid and the connection between the spinal column and the brain and it has become a major issue with Cavaliers (just to add to their health problems list) and spread by bad breeding. The breed club is trying hard to combat it. It might be worth speaking to the cavalier breed club as they may know more about the subject as it is an condition to do with the breed, plus they may be able to give you some pointers in how to deal with it on a day to day basis, along with speaking to your vet and asking them to clarify. I might try taking Mai to Cavalier club to socialise her, if I do I'll have a chat with some of the people there about it, if you find out that is what her problem is.

http://www.cavalierhealth.org/syringomyelia.htm

that might help


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## Marie (Apr 22, 2006)

I'm very sorry about Daisy's problems. I know you'll continue to love her no matter what problems she has. It happens in people to, so that's how I knew about it. Use the link to view more information from a New York veterinary clinic doing a clinical investigation on this problem. 

http://www.livs.org/livsnews.htm

CHIARI MALFORMATION

The Chiari malformation in humans and the Chiari-like malformation in dogs (CM), also known as Caudal Occipital Malformation Syndrome (COMS), is a condition where part of the brain, the cerebellum, descends out of the skull, through the opening at its base, putting pressure on the spinal cord. It is considered to be a developmental abnormality; therefore it affects both children and puppies during the growing years.

Because of an overly small skull and the resultant pressure on the spinal cord, the normal cerebral spinal fluid flow (CSF) is disrupted. The abnormal flow of CSF results in extreme pressure gradients causing the formation of fluid accumulations within the spinal cord each of which is called a syrinx. It is both compression of the cerebellum and the formation of the syrinxes that cause the various clinical signs seen in puppies and children. In some patients, the central canal of the spinal cord is only slightly dilated referred to as hydromyelia. In cases where the dilation is greater than 2mm and fluid leaks into the spinal cord, it is called syringohydromyelia or simply syringomyelia (SM).

The focus is now on correcting the flow of CSF as the malformation results in the secondary condition known as syringomyelia. Syrinxes exert pressure on the spinal cord, compressing and stretching its fibers and in some cases permanent nerve damage and paralysis results. The clinical condition in dogs has been recently described, with many of the early reports originating from the Surgery Department at Long Island Veterinary Specialists (LIVS), and appears analogous to the Chiari type I malformation in humans. It is recognized in small breed dogs (dogs under 30 pounds), mostly found in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. Here too there is strong evidence that it is a heritable condition.


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## sullysmum (Mar 6, 2004)

http://search.live.com/results.aspx?srch=105&FORM=IE7RE&q=Chiari


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2008)

thanks for all of those links. I'll be sure to look at them all. Appreciate everyone advice. I was going to google it later when I have more time to read it, but appreciate those links.

It helps to "chat" with people who know more about all this than I do.

Of course, Daisey:daisy: will still be pampered and smothered with love


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## catalat (Apr 21, 2008)

Poor sweet daisey! I hope she feels better soon and no matter what she has we all still love her to pieces!!


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## ItZy BiTzY (May 15, 2008)

Chiari Malformation can also be found in humans. It is where the hole (in the skull) meets at the top of the spine is larger than normal and the hole allows brainstem to exit the skull and become spinal cord. Thats the easy explanation. 
If he was not concerned for now, I would just do a lot of my own research so you can be her best advocate. 
I had a child with learning disabilities but, that did not stop me from continuing to help him and loving the heck out of him. He is now becomming an electrician. It's the same premiss for fur babies. She will come along with your patience.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2008)

Thanks Itzy. We wont ever stop loving her as much as we do now. She'll always be my baby girl lol.
I just wish the breeder would accept some responsibilty over it all and not make out theres nothing much wrong with the puppy.

In my mind the puppy should have seen a vet BEFORE being re-homed. This never happened though, it would have solved a lot of problems and heart ache for us. 

Still, for some money is all that matters.


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

IWAC said:


> Thanks Itzy. We wont ever stop loving her as much as we do now. She'll always be my baby girl lol.
> I just wish the breeder would accept some responsibilty over it all and not make out theres nothing much wrong with the puppy.
> 
> In my mind the puppy should have seen a vet BEFORE being re-homed. This never happened though, it would have solved a lot of problems and heart ache for us.
> ...


How old was she when you brought her home?


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2008)

12 weeks, JUST. And the breeder had "held on to her" a few weeks extra for us until we could travel the distance to collect her.


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

IWAC said:


> 12 weeks, JUST. And the breeder had "held on to her" a few weeks extra for us until we could travel the distance to collect her.


and she hadn't seen a vet at all?? that does sound slightly odd to me as everyone we've ever bought puppies from has had then checked prior and at 12 weeks I would have expected at least first injections. Plus at 12 weeks I find it hard to believe any breeder wouldn't have noticed something was wrong, let alone someone who breeds on a larger scale.


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## BellaLina's Mom (Mar 16, 2007)

Poor Daisey...We're so sorry about her health problems.

Bella, Lina, and I send hugs to you and Dasiey.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2008)

*Sarah* said:


> and she hadn't seen a vet at all?? that does sound slightly odd to me as everyone we've ever bought puppies from has had then checked prior and at 12 weeks I would have expected at least first injections. Plus at 12 weeks I find it hard to believe any breeder wouldn't have noticed something was wrong, let alone someone who breeds on a larger scale.


the breeders website said puppies would be vaccinated, The information sheet we were given said your puppy has had it's first jabs, BEFORE picking her up the breeder said she wouldnt have had her first vac cos chi's are too small and cant be done that early  and then when we got there the excuse given was "we had a chi that had a bad reaction so now we dont vaccinate them"

So AFTEr we noticed something wrong with Daisey I asked for the name and address of the vet who saw the litter as puppies and was told " we told you when you were here they hadnt seen a vet as we dont vaccinate them"

Regardless of vaccinations I wouldnt EVER dream of letting a puppy go to a new home without first having seen a vet, not that I breed them but even I wouldnt do that.

Persoanlly I CANT beleive ANY breeder wouldnt have noticed something wrong either.

I dont want to discuss too much on here, in case we should end up going to court or anything (yes I am prepared to do that if needs be, but I dont see it as going to be necessary to be honest)


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## reddobes (May 6, 2008)

Good luck w/ your pup.
Often w/ mild hydrocephalus, the only signs are slow learning or failure to housetrain.
I agree that pups should've seen a vet prior to be sent to their new homes, but many so called breeders don't do this to save $. Yet many of these same "breeders" charge as much or MORE than pups from reputable breeders who health test and title their breeding stock, etc.

Many states do have puppy lemon laws - If you're in the US, you may want to see what your state's laws are.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2008)

THanks reddobes, I am in the uk though.
looks like no dna tests were done either.

She certainly IS slow to potty train, still doesnt get the hang of it, and as I said earlier really doesnt learn anything much at all.

But she does LOVE cuddles, which is a bonus


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## freedomchis (Jul 28, 2007)

i dont know anything thing about any of this so i cant say 
but i do hope daisy gets better and i am always thing of her


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## Luella (May 20, 2008)

sorry i cant help explain any of that but i do hope/wish Daisy gets Better  she is a gourgeous/lovley little girl 
...
My thoughs are with you and her  
Best Wishes! x and i hope you find the answer to her problems soon x​


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2008)

Thanks everyone. Daisey isnt a particularily poorly dog in that she doesnt seem sickly all the time, she does get tired and sleepy a lot.

She has grown a teeny bit too though.


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## KayC (May 3, 2005)

Our thoughts and prayers are with you and aisey and I sure hope things work out OK. My Roxy (RIP) was hard to train as well and a bit slow, could never learn any commands, sit stay etc, but she was the sweetest thing in the world. After 4 years I was comfortable letting her have free run of the house.


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## Ivy's mom (Feb 15, 2008)

Sooo sorry to hear about Daisy. But I'm glad she has you and you have her  Just love her to peices!!! And keep us updated.

Lori


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2008)

Thanks everyone, as I say it's nice to know so much is thought of Daisey.

I'll post new piccies soon


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

IWAC said:


> OK, some I dont QUITE understand, but here is what the report says:
> 
> 
> "Daisey was refered to me to assess the abnormality in the frontal bones of her skull. She is very slow with learning and seems to be generally a bit lethargic. Examination confirmed the presence of a small soft area in the midline of the frontal bones.
> ...


hi Janie

Just seen this posting, been away for a few days and then had to go to work! I know Gerard but never seen him. He is a good vet from what I have heard though. I still don't know what the report all means though - I will ask my vet nurse friend when she comes in what it is all about. 

The Prednisolone is an anti inflamatory (I think it is a steroid) used for athritis etc. It doesn't sound like the skull has been the main problem, sounds like there is another one. Poor little lamb!

Have to say that sometimes chihuahuas are purely lazy little sods and would rather not be trained though. hee hee.. why pee outside when I can pee inside and get away with it.

So basically there isn't any treatment which she can have. Do you know what the affects of hydrocephalus will have on her well being?


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

*Sarah* said:


> I've heard of the condition in Cavaliers, called Syringomyelia, I used to be quite involved with the cavalier breed clubs when I was younger, and the condition was mentioned to me when I took Zero to Cavalier training (they let me take them so they could socialise). I think I was told it was something to do with the spinal fluid and the connection between the spinal column and the brain and it has become a major issue with Cavaliers (just to add to their health problems list) and spread by bad breeding. The breed club is trying hard to combat it. It might be worth speaking to the cavalier breed club as they may know more about the subject as it is an condition to do with the breed, plus they may be able to give you some pointers in how to deal with it on a day to day basis, along with speaking to your vet and asking them to clarify. I might try taking Mai to Cavalier club to socialise her, if I do I'll have a chat with some of the people there about it, if you find out that is what her problem is.
> 
> http://www.cavalierhealth.org/syringomyelia.htm
> 
> that might help


Syringomyelia is rife in cav's - I know it can be transmitted through breeding. you can have your dog blood tested to see if it is a carrier of the disease but it is supposed to be VERY expensive. Surely this would have shown up on the MRI scan that she had though?


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

Daisy's breeder is supposed to be an accreditted breeder. Lots of people have jumped on the bandwagon becoming and AB to give them a sort of status symbol of being a GOOD breeder.

IMO there are lots of loopholes in it. I thought that all puppies had to be DNA'd but apparently it is only the parents who have to be. 

I don't know of many show breeders who are AB because they think that it is a big con. 

I have heard though that lots of them are being kicked out of the scheme because they are giving it a bad name.

Accredited Breeders must:
1. Ensure that all breeding stock is Kennel Club registered. 
2. Hand over the dog's registration certificate at time of sale if available, or forward it to the new owner as soon as possible. 
3. Explain any endorsements that might pertain and obtain written and signed confirmation from the new owner, at or before the date on which the dog is physically transferred, that the new owner is aware of the endorsement(s), regardless of whether or not the endorsed registration certificate is available. 
4. Follow Kennel Club policy regarding maximum age and number/frequency of litters. 
5. Permanently identify breeding stock by DNA profile, microchip, or tattoo. 
6. Make use of health screening schemes, relevant to their breed, on all breeding stock. These schemes include DNA testing, hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia and inherited eye conditions. 
7. Socialise the puppies and provide written advice, in the Puppy Sales Wallet, on continuation of socialisation, exercise and future training. 
8. Provide written advice, in the scheme Puppy Sales Wallet, on feeding and worming programmes.
9. Provide a written record, in the Puppy Sales Wallet, on the immunisation measures taken. 
10. Provide reasonable post-sales telephone advice. 
11. Inform buyers of the requirements and the recommendations that apply to Kennel Club Accredited Breeders as well as the existence of the complaints procedure. 
12. Draw up a contract of sale for each puppy and provide a copy in the Puppy Sales Wallet.


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

So pretty much they are MEANT to do everything I already thought a good breeder would do (with the exception of a lot of the KC reporting etc) I'm guessing the KC doesn't chase all this up then? Oh well it is true the only people worth speaking to now are the BCC. 

I honestly hope Janie contacts the KC with these findings and if needed gets her struck off the AB list. The reason why I put up the information about Syringomyelia is because it's pretty much linked in with Chiari in Cavaliers (it was also mentioned about Daisey's neck and possible pain, which is a sign of Syringomelia, plus the meds she's on and there was a mention of Chiari in the report) and I am hoping to god it doesn't get into chihuahua's that would be a disaster, it's pretty much crippled the CKCS breed.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

exactly - I already do most of that if not more (with the exception of DNA's)

From what I have been told it is having a devastating affect on cavi's. I am not sure but I think there has been a case of it in chihuahuas already. Does this mean that it always has been there and that medical science is advancing or is it a new problem occuring??? I don't know.


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

jesshan said:


> exactly - I already do most of that if not more (with the exception of DNA's)
> 
> From what I have been told it is having a devastating affect on cavi's. I am not sure but I think there has been a case of it in chihuahuas already. Does this mean that it always has been there and that medical science is advancing or is it a new problem occurring??? I don't know.


I know it wasn't apparent in Cav's when I was younger (I used to be quite an active member of the Cavalier Club, from the age of 10 I did show my girl and we did go to the club every week for training etc and there was no mention of it then, it was mainly problems with eyes and heart murmurs)

But since I went back 3 years ago (apparently it started getting bad around 2000) I was informed about it and it has as I said previously crippled the breed. They are having so many problems with it which is really quite upsetting as I do love Cav's and I hate seeing this happen to them, but I have also noticed they are no where near as popular as they were 10 years ago, which might have been where the problem came from. 

Either way Chihuahua's and Cav's do to some extent have very similar skulls and that could be one of the reasons as to why the condition 'could be' appearing in Chi's, there may have been previous occurrences but no one has flagged them up and that is particularly worrying and I would hate to see the Chihuahua breed go down the same route as the Cavalier. What's sad is both breeds already have a multitude of health problems already and neither exactly need another to cope with.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

I know exactly what you mean. The cav's have reduced in numbers an awful lot - I know this thing is totally heartbreaking to hear about. I would hate to think that it becomes as bad in chihuahuas. 

yet another hereditary fault and another reason why not to cross breed.

Cross a chi with a cav and you have a puppy who potentially could have heart problems, PL AND Syringomyelia


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

jesshan said:


> I know exactly what you mean. The cav's have reduced in numbers an awful lot - I know this thing is totally heartbreaking to hear about. I would hate to think that it becomes as bad in chihuahuas.
> 
> yet another hereditary fault and another reason why not to cross breed.
> 
> Cross a chi with a cav and you have a puppy who potentially could have heart problems, PL AND Syringomyelia


Lol trust me I try to say that to people about cross breeds and I get shot down every time, I have never known a "healthier' cross breed, it all depends on the parents and family of that particular dog in question, if you breed dogs with health problems it will carry to puppies and people who cross without testing and checking really don't understand that. With Cavaliers my girl came from a show kennel her dad was an Eng and AM champion and her mum was a pretty good show girl (I'm biased towards her mum she was the living embodiment of Lady from Lady and the Tramp a really beautiful girl, to this day I have never seen a prettier Cavalier but my girl did come close) as well and she still developed a heart murmur and we lost her at the age of 9.

I guess thats another reason why when my family do get dogs we always make sure at least the grandparents were in the ring at some point and the parents have been health checked, but we still have dogs with medical conditions so I would hate to think what people get from parents who aren't checked.

Fingers crossed these are fluke occurrences with syringomyelia as I can somehow see it being more devastating in chihuahua's just due to their size, with the onset of paralysis and the problems with how heavy their heads are in comparison to their bodies, I don't want to think about what could happen.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

A Crufts either last year or the year before - Bruce Fogle, a well respected vet, stated that cross breeds are far healthier than pedigree's - bit of a stupid thing to say on a Crufts program of course. 

I try to explain to people that cross breeds can double up on faults and illnesses. Fine if there is an accidental mating - sell them on but I totally dissagree with people who are doing this just to make money. 

Take the labradoodle - initially bred as guide dogs for people with alergies. Now they are being sold at over £1000 each! MENTAL if you ask me.


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

But vets always say cross breeds are healthier, they also state that science diet is good for dogs and that no one should breed their dogs ever they should rescue. He was probably trying to highlight that there are a lot of 'crossbreeds' in rescue centres that need homes, but it was put across in a stupid way, as for Labradoodles I know they are trying atm to create a breed and I respect those who are doing that and actually putting together a registration service and breeding non 1st generation dogs to actually create a breed, but those aren't the people charging £1000 for one.

Plus in all reality Labradoodles can and do shed, as you can't eliminate the gene for shedding in one mating (what angers me is that people actually believe they can) plus anyway if you want an intelligent non shedding breed, buy a poodle and just don't give it a silly hair cut they don't look much different to labradoodles if you don't lol. Plus considering how many poor bred labs I see now (they really have been ravaged by their success) all I can see is Labradoodles from badly bred labradors that isn't a good foundation is it really.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2008)

wow, I dont know about anyone else but I found the last few pages of this thread VERY interesting actually.

I DONT agree with cross breeding either, think there are too many BYB doing it for money.

I agree with Denise's comments on the AB scheme, and to put my view politely- what a crock!!! How anyone can be an AB and NOT vaccinate, dna test, vet check worm, etc is beyond me.

Plus there was the fact that when we got our puppy she had some bald area on her head and no fur and a rash on her belly, which our vet said COULD have been from laying in urine, and the baldness _could_ have been mange. We didnt do anything about those minor issues as we wanted to give the breeder the benefit of the doubt.

I know some people on here know the breeder, and yes I agree she does produce some lovely LOOKING puppies, but thus far has totally shunned any responsibility for the puppies conditions, and has even stated she took this breeding pair to the vets, and the dog has sired over 50 puppies so it CANT be genetic/ hereditary, obviously meaning she intends to continue breeding from the same pair together, She also stated NO other puppies of hers have had this condition. Yet she knows of the open fontanell conditon so why doesnt she check all her puppies?

With regards to going to the KC, at THIS point in time we waiting to see what response we get from the breeder, and what actions she feels are right from when she receives a copy of the MRI/vet report. We'll take things from there. Obviously it is only fair to give the breeder a chance to respond.

I cant stand all this labradoodle, and chiyorkie etc, nothing but pure greed in my opinion. I have nothing against owning a cross breed, dependent where you get it, Ie if from a rescue then great job!


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

Lol sorry for hijacking your thread Janie, but I am really curious as to what is wrong with Daisey as if it is the condition I mentioned, I'm curious as to where your little girls parents came from because the condition is proving atm to be hereditary with if both dogs have the gene and pass it on then there are pups with the condition. Due to the similarity with the Brachycephalic skulls (Both breeds suffer from BAOS we just call them by different names, Cavalier snort and with chi's reverse sneezing). Now all Cavaliers have to be screened for 3 medical conditions before being bred SYRINGOMYELIA, OCCIPITAL HYPOPLASIA and MITRAL VALVE DISEASE (basically if the parents don't have those certificates you don't buy a puppy) It could be worthwhile the BCC introducing a LP list and heaven forbid any new conditions occur including that as well, as atm from what I know there are no health certificates that Chi's need to have for breeding. Plus I do think the KC need to get off their arse's and do something about registering dogs with known conditions and DNA testing puppies.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2008)

The KC seem worth very little at times. They dont seem to have any sort of monitoring process for AB's at all, and as Denise says everything is "meant" to be done but doenst HAVE to be.
Personally if i ever were to breed I wouldnt dream of sending a bubbie onto it's new home without it being vet checked, wormed, vaccinated with at LEAST the first one, micro chipped etc.

(I'm doing a micro chipping course soon!!!!! got a little money coming my way and hubby is doing it, the company said for an extra £50 they'll teach me too so i said ok")

The MRI report said the symptoms are simliar to the chiari, but it didnt diagnose that as being the problem.

I have noticed though that some days her eyes seem to bulge a little more than others.

To answer Denise earlier question, I dont know for sure what all this means as to the future for Daisey, but I am guessing we shouldnt expect her to live as long as she might otherwise have done. I asked my vets over and over if this will affect her life expectancy, but theyre reluctant to answer. Personaly I would rather know than not know, as I say I am guessing we shant have as long with her as other chi's. But I wont give up on her, I brought her, I'll keep her no matter waht. THere is no question of re-homing cos shes poorly etc. in my mind if you get a pet you stick by it until the very end, unless there are extreme circumstances as to why you cant.

She's my baby now, and my vet even said she is better off with us. The vet even said IF we were to consider giving her back to the breeder or rehoming that one of the nurses there wants her, as she doesnt want to see her go anywhere else.


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## *Tricia* (Dec 1, 2007)

OMG Janie - I'm just seeing this thread and I wanted to tell you that I'm so glad Daisey has you in her life! I don't know anything about the disease she may have, but I'm sure praying for her to have the most normal life possible because she sure is a little beauty!!


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

IWAC said:


> The KC seem worth very little at times. They dont seem to have any sort of monitoring process for AB's at all, and as Denise says everything is "meant" to be done but doenst HAVE to be.
> Personally if i ever were to breed I wouldnt dream of sending a bubbie onto it's new home without it being vet checked, wormed, vaccinated with at LEAST the first one, micro chipped etc.
> 
> (I'm doing a micro chipping course soon!!!!! got a little money coming my way and hubby is doing it, the company said for an extra £50 they'll teach me too so i said ok")
> ...


I think the KC have realised that the AB scheme is allowing "questionable" breeders into it and are sending out people to check them out. I know that breedadog.com is also trying to whittle out dodgy breeders too - I spoke with the MD of the web site at East of England show on Tuesday.

BTW I have done the microchipping course a couple of months ago - it was really good. I did 3 of my dogs that day (very nervous but managed it) only done a couple since LOL, really need to do some more. The course is good (if the same one as I went on) and if I ever need to go back for a refersher they do it free of charge. 

I will ask my vet nurse friend see what she can find out for me on the various illnesses mentioned in this thread.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2008)

hollysmommy said:


> OMG Janie - I'm just seeing this thread and I wanted to tell you that I'm so glad Daisey has you in her life! I don't know anything about the disease she may have, but I'm sure praying for her to have the most normal life possible because she sure is a little beauty!!


ahh thanks so much, it really means a lot to me that I do my very best for her, and cheeky boy too of course, and it's lovely when people say such nice things.


I'm doing the course through AVIS i think it is, theyre coming to my home. £279 for hubby, including 20 chips and starte pack, and extra £49 for me, but I dont get the starte pack etc, but seeing as I'm lending HIM the money I'll take what I want anyway lol.
Going to chip SIL kittens for her before they go to new homes at 12 weeks.
I'm nervous but looking forward to it.


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

I did mine through petdetect. I got a starter pack for £220 and the course cost me £25 (I got it at a reduced cost because I am doing rescue chihuahuas) I also got the more advanced scanner which was £110 - it reads all chips not just european ones


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2008)

sounds a great price that


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## jesshan (Sep 15, 2005)

I didn't get as many chips as you though.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2008)

I like chips, especially with gravy lol

I just liked the idea that this company come to us.


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

Something you might find of interest Janie http://board.cavaliertalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=56 It's a forum for mainly cav's but other breeds with SM, if you find out that is a possible problem try there 

 Also this person below is the specialist in the condition, Stone Lion is actually my emergency vets 

Clare Rusbridge BVMS DipECVN MRCVS RCVS Specialist Stone Lion Veterinary Centre, 41 High Street, Wimbledon Common, London SW19 5AU Tel: 020 8946 4228, Fax: 020 8944 0871


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks sarah, Once i've had a few more coffee's and feel a bit more human i'll take a look at that link. Appreciate that!


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2008)

Well i am absolutly DIGSUTED with Ruby's breeder, and have no qualms about saying so.

I just had an email from her today saying thanks for the MRI report and I must be so glad there is nothing wrong with the puppy, and she has spoken to gerard and my vets who both confirm there is nothing wrong with her, so she wont give us a penny back.

Honestly, how a breeder can be so unscrupultious to say I am glad there is nothing wrong with her is beyond belief.

Ok, water on the brain is nothing is it?

To be honest I am fuming with her. I wont say how I really feel.

All I will say is this is NOT the end of it,I intend going to a solicitor.
How any breeder can have such a bad attitude to things like this is beyond me. To not accept one iota of responsiblity is beyond me! 

Says a lot about the breeder in my eyes, saying she is upset I think she is a bad breeder! Yes that is my personal opinion.


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## *Sarah* (Apr 19, 2005)

Janie has the vet actually explained her diagnosis to you in plain english as opposed to medical gargon? Is she on any medication currently? have they said they are willing to do more tests? 

TBH considering the report even mentioned a possiblilty of hydro and chiari symptoms I would say that is enough cause for alarm with any owner let alone breeder. *sigh* I will never understand people when it comes to money.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2008)

No it hasnt been explained in plain english, not the report itself, but the conditons have. saying she will prob be slow to learn and lethargic etc.

i am just amazed anyone could read that report and say there is nothing wrong.
We brought a puppy for showing, and she cant be shown. 
Money means more to some people than anything


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